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iHow this transcript is madeUnGovr transcribes the official recording with automated speech-to-text, separates speakers by voice, and matches voices to the seated roster. Names and attributions are AI estimates and may contain errors.Verify any quote yourself: click anywhere in the transcript and the official video jumps to that exact moment, so you can check any quote against the recording.0:11 – 0:198 turns
Welcome back. Open session. July 7th, 2026 641 roll call please.
Roll call, called by Unidentified speaker 2 · 2 under review
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presence. See attorney report on action closed session.
Yes, Mayor. The City Council met on the two items on the closed session agenda with the exception of on item number one, Councilmember Bridge did not participate because he owns property within 500 feet of the properties that we were discussing in that item and on item number two, Councilmember Bridge also did not participate because of a financial interest he has Very good. Invocation.
and his staff and our interim fire chief. Lord, we thank you for the men and women who rush into danger on our behalf. So I'm asking for your divine protection upon all of us For your wisdom and your insight. Help us to be able to cooperate with one another, and we can achieve great things together. So I ask that your blessings be upon this meeting, upon our city.
Watch over us. We give you thanks for all things in your name, I pray, and you agree in the Father's name. Is that an amen? Amen. Very good.
Please join me in the Pledge of Allegiance. Ready? Begin. I
pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.
Councilmember Paul take evaporated. You waiting for applause or something coming back in here? We're waiting for you. You're up. Councilmember Ball will give a certificate of appreciation to Anne McCarty
Sorry I had to escape, I forgot my notes in my car so I apologize for that. Excuse my absence. I just want to say first before I make too long of a speech sorry I had to run to my car it was all the way in the back getting old. I'm here to celebrate somebody very very important and special to our community raise your hand if you've heard or know Anne McCarty Anne McCarty, I got to know her maybe five or six years ago.
I just decided to run for city council and started to plug in and learn about all the extra things, all the supplemental work that people throughout our community do every single day to support a community that often needs them but we don't always hear about that. Anne has been, I believe doing the job of Executive Director at the North County Rape Crisis Center since 2015. I believe she's been involved with that entities for 32 years.
Gosh, that's a lot of work and I can't imagine the stories that she's had to endure, the trauma that she's had to witness I want to to resources and ways to recover and to better their life moving forward. Aside from helping those that are in need, they try to get out ahead of this by getting out into schools and educating young people and children about how to treat one another How to use respect with each other. And I think her thoughtfulness and her big picture thinking has done miracles in this city that has needed that type of work so much. So before I go on too far, I want to give Anne and anyone else that's representing the North County Rape Crisis Center a chance to say a few words. I just think at the very least, and we're so sorry that you're retiring.
It's not fair. You should stay around for many, many more years but I understand the circumstances that make you ready to hang up your coat and pass on the baton to the next person. You've kept your eye on something so important, and that is what can we do to help the least among us in some of their darkest times. And I want to thank you for your leadership, the example that you've set for many people in our community, and the education that you've given to so many about the issues That we don't always see when we drive around town. So I just wanted to say personally, thank you for educating me on all of the good work that you do and thank you for helping so many thousands of people in this community for so many years. We're so grateful if you would come up, I've got a certificate for ya from the city and I'd love for you to say a few words if you would.
Anne McCarty everyone.
0:19 – 0:275 turns
Oh, one more time at this microphone. I've thought a lot about what I wanted to say tonight and first and foremost I want to say thank you. Thank you for the recognition. I'm humbled by it. You know it has been an interesting and fulfilling career over the last 32 years with the North County Rape Crisis and Child Protection Center. In 1994 when I started, we had only lived in Lompoc for about 13 months.
We arrived in 1993 Having been in Minot, North Dakota for 10 years and coming here I knew that I wanted to do something different. I wasn't quite sure what that was but when I found it I knew that I was home and that's what the center has become to me over the last 32 years One of the things that strikes me the most about this community are the times that we come together and the times that we divide.
And as I leave, and as And thinking about where the city is going, I hope that that divide closes. Because our people deserve better, our people deserve more and our survivors that we work with each and every day need a city that rallies behind them. And before I came here tonight, I read something that Lompoc Police Department had posted where they were appreciating the work of a witness that stepped up and helped someone.
And that's what we all need to be as a community. We all need to be active bystanders that aren't afraid to step in and help our police force and help our fire department and help our city officials I look at myself as a leader in this community, and I always want better for the people. But I also want better for my staff. I call them my staff still, even though as of a week ago today they aren't my staff.
They're our new executive director Dr. Nydia Delgadillo's staff and through her leadership and the leadership of all the other employees at the Rape Crisis Center they're going to continue to move the Rape Crisis Center forward and provide high quality services to survivors of sexual assault child abuse and human trafficking within our city and within our valley.
But as Jeremy said, education is also important and that's where we need for all of you to rally behind us and help us continue to educate the community. If you belong to an organization have the Rape Crisis Center come out and give a presentation If you belong to a service club, have them come out and give a presentation. Talk to your children's teachers if we aren't in that school make sure that we get there Once again, I say we.
This will forever in my heart and in my soul be my center and my community. And as my husband and I leave the area because we are leaving, we are moving back home to our home state of Virginia where we came from, where we were born and raised. I'm gonna be following Lompoc because my heart is here, because my people are here I'm going to miss the city. I'm not going to miss any of y'all, but...
I'll miss Stacy. But I will miss this city and I do appreciate this recognition so very much, so thank you.
All right. So real fast, I just wanted to recognize tonight's meeting for those people who are ready for tonight this is what we've got so we got a lot to get through and with that City Manager report. Thank you
Mayor I wanted to start it out with thanking everybody for coming out to the Flower Festival. Also want to congratulate our mayor getting first place in the floats, good job!
Yeah look at that and all my helpers had a lot of helpers.
Also wanted to thank Parks and Rec division for putting together and hosting the fantastic community event this year for the Fourth of July really good high turnout also wanted to thank the Valley Thank you. Thank you to the medical center for passing out helmets to our community members it was a great celebration. Parks and Rec movie in the park- we got some coming up next will be Saturday July eighteenth at Ryan Park- hoppers moving.
And it's a family events are remembering no vaping smoking all those things not supposed Our staff has put together a calendar of a lot of fun things to participate. The theme this year is Power of Parks and Rec, so keep an eye out. We also have some free public swim which will include next Tuesday July 14th. We've got some things going on at the library. We're in the middle of our summer reading challenge program.
We got 802 participants with 256,138 hours. Our goal is 400,000 so we're well on our way. Also got some other things. We've got team dessert and pizza party this Thursday from 2 to 3. So fun things happening there. Wanted to thank the Beautification and Appearance Commission for this year's Inaugural Window Decoration Contest. It was the first year, we had 29 nominees.
The best overall was Fountain Square, first place for Lompoc Valley Florist, second place for First American Title, and third place for River's Edge Pet Lodge. Yeah, great way to celebrate in spirit. I also want to make an announcement. We got a million dollar grant from BSEC, the California Board of State and Community Corrections. This is to help mitigate for legalization for use impact for merit cannabis.
It's great opportunity for us to propose potential resource officer at the Lompoc Valley Middle School and I can update you guys as we move forward with that grant. Want to take a minute to talk about some of the things that we did on 4th of July for enforcement. The police department handled 337 total events, of those 337, 189 were fireworks calls. We're going to get some I just want to thank fire and police for working this weekend.
0:28 – 0:3221 turns
So just to respond to the city manager, I had multiple, multiple, multiple calls of people that were terrorized and traumatized by this event. They had calls where they called PD, didn't get a response. One lady with her pet ended up having to take it to an emergency vet hospital, and granted the dog was so traumatized but let me just say this He was out of control.
I don't know what you have this many officers working why we only got four tickets, I don't know why I'm not gonna tell you guys how to do your job. didn't see it. They're very, very upset.
Well I feel their pain.
Were you here sir?
I had the same problem
in Lompoc.
Now if I could finish we had 337 calls for 6 officers to handle in the evening after 7 o'clock. 5 earlier in the day. They are delayed because our heaviest time was from 8-10. 84 calls came That's almost one call every minute.
I feel you, I hear you, I know.
We respond to them but they stack up we get to them as we can.
So Santa Maria they're saying they wrote 60 tickets? They went out with a small task force and wrote 60 tickets.
They wrote 80 tickets.
80 tickets, 80, I'm wrong, 80 tickets!
And they had two-thirds more people on the streets than we did. They used their code enforcement and they used their rangers Which we don't have.
It really is, whatever happened here was really... I'm not going to tell you how to do your job. The public sees it as unacceptable.
Mr. Mayor, I am a little disheartened as your Chief of Police to feel like I have to defend your department.
You're what?
I'm a little disheartened that I have to defend this police department to this council when you know how many people we have and how many calls came in. It's disheartening.
And I'm not saying, again, I'm not trying to tell you guys how to run your department. I read that the drone, you guys didn't get the drone because somebody was late in asking for the drone? That was in the weekly city manager report? Correct.
Yeah, that's right.
Okay. I'm just saying we are willing up here to put the tools out there. I get it, you guys were busy. I would like to get these guys the ticket. So they would stop doing what they're doing. But if we don't write any tickets, they're not learning. They're not. And I know you had a lot of phone calls. I get it. You had a lot of things to do. But we put the money out there to do this.
And... I mean, I know it was a rat race and a war zone. I'm telling you what the public is saying and I'm sure you guys have read the forums too and seen what's going on. The people are irate about this. They are. I don't know what else that we can do for this. I get it, you had a lot of calls and if we'd start nailing these guys maybe we wouldn't get more calls.
We had 69 normal or what would be considered a standard call-for-service normal criminal activities that we have to investigate. We had 148 fireworks calls on top of that. 69 is a busy day at another 148 is an extremely unmanageable day So we did the best we could, and I'm sorry that the community suffered the way they did. Next year will be completely different. We'll have drone as first responder out there. We were hoping it would be in place this year, it just didn't work out logistically.
But we're not happy that the things happened that they did but we need the community to help us too when you call in illegal fireworks don't give us a general area give us the actual address let us get over there You know if your neighbors are doing it, we need to work together with this community. That's the only way we're going to fix this problem.
Yeah, for that lead in minor pretty minor but the last session we agreed to have a schedule come back on the municipal code. I didn't see that get pulled on the upcoming agenda could you take a look at that and perhaps next time we have a session we can have a review of that schedule?
0:33 – 0:4035 turns
Talk about the contract with the code.
Well, the contract was a piece of that because that's two years long so we were just going to get a schedule as to how we were going to update the municipal code.
I'm caught up now.
Yeah,
we can work on that. It's on number 2?
Okay well that's item 2 but it didn't carry the schedule so I just want to make sure that doesn't get lost The last meeting we kind of finished up with the water loan from the solid department and I believe now staff will concur with my statement that we have a structural problem in the water department. Would you please put it on your agenda to look at? And then the last item for this morning, this afternoon is In the solid waste, we went over the organics and I believe staff will now agree that it's not a state mandate.
And perhaps we could look at a more business-friendly approach rather than no notice inspections and perhaps have scheduled inspections? Could you look at that?
Yeah, I think we had some emails back. I don't know if Mike, if you want to comment on an approach for that. Thank you.
Yeah, so I wasn't going to say anything but again. I was outside on July 4th, and maybe a few of you were as well. But if you walked outside, as soon as it got dark enough, if you just stood still for a few seconds and looked around the city, you'd see a lot of illegal fireworks going off every 10 seconds or so. So police chief, if you would, let's hypothetically say that we got six calls for fireworks and two or three calls for regular incidents in the first ten minutes. Eight o'clock, you get those calls.
I appreciate the scapegoating that's going on here. We do not have enough officers per capita in our city. We haven't for a long time to manage the regular call volume that we have, not to mention what happens on July 4th. No defense of us not trying to do the best that we absolutely can. Santa Maria did 119 citations the year before this one they're down to 80 I'm really glad that they had the resources to do that, but I'm not sure I'm seeing a correlation between people not using fireworks anymore because somebody around the corner may have got a citation.
I want us to be careful we should be building a solid plan on how to sustain efforts on July 4th and the week surrounding that over time But if the city is expecting us to have absolutely no fireworks and it's the police's fault that we have them, I hope that you understand that the amount of calls that come in on that day Even if we had the whole department staffed up, we might still be challenged. So in all fairness I'd love for you guys to do more. I'd love for code enforcement to be a lot bigger and beefier than it is right now in the city. I would love us to have eyes and ears everywhere that we could legally to try to catch some of these folks but as far as I understand Police Chief, unless we witness something happening or someone gives you specific visual evidence that something occurred it does make it quite difficult for you to arrive after the fact and give a citation.
Is that correct?
That's correct.
So again I thank you for your hard work. We still need to do a lot better but I appreciate all the hard work that our first responders did on July 4th. It's a day they have to miss with their families to be here to patrol our city so thank you for your hard work
Another question for the city manager. What's going on with the RV parking signs?
Let me see if Craig, can you give us an update on where we are with the signs?
So we've been coordinating with the county and with Caltrans over the last few months. And at the moment, we're finalizing what Caltrans needs to do their traffic ops approvals for specific locations for those signs.
So where are we? A week away? Two weeks away? How long are we away?
I would say probably at least a few weeks if not more on the Caltrans process.
Did you guys reach out and contact that Caltrans
Deputy
Director? Yes. Because when I talked to him he hadn't heard from you guys yet, so...
Yeah, I think I got that contact two weeks ago.
Okay. You said he would help expedite it so you could get it through the process.
Yeah, thank you for that.
Okay. I have another concern. Have you guys written the railroad about the Laurel and O Street big asshole that's there?
Letter hasn't gone out yet, but that's on my desk.
You got it out?
No, it has not gone out yet, but that task is on my desk.
All right. I know there's just a lot of people getting injured their tires in that hole so sooner than later please. I have another question. This is regards to the fire department's contract You guys are still honoring this contract, correct?
Yeah. The first year has already gone by and the second year starting July 1st.
So we have one more year left on the contract?
Yes sir.
The curiosity is it seems like you guys are paying on the contract, correct? Yeah. Okay, so you haven't defaulted? There was a section in there about the 5% increase in sales tax and then they would get from 3% to 5%. Did that happen?
I don't know. Bob do you know if that happened? Mr. Garz?
It didn't happen last year. We haven't received all the funds yet for this year, so we haven't determined that yet. Could you speak up Bob?
I
couldn't hear you. I'm sorry. We haven't been able to determine that for 2026 yet but we did not for 2025.
We'll get our sales tax results all the way out to August before they true it all up.
0:40 – 0:4922 turns
Okay. Yeah, the last numbers I got on 25 are $30,331,000 and you were stating if it went to $33 million then they would go from 3% to 5%. So another question, the retention incentives in there that if they've been there for five years is 2,500 and they've been there 10 years it's 5,000. Ten plus years at 7,500 you guys are paying on those retention? The Okay.
And the 5% for MA, MS four years and a BS or BA is six years and AAS for nine years? You're still honoring all of that. Okay. And skill certification everything that's in the contract. All right so my question is why does it apparently appear that they're asking for an opener and they have one year left on the contract? Mind you the contract wasn't signed by me as the previous mayor and the previous council but Is there something going on that we have not been advised to of why with this contract?
I think the Chief Shea did a good job of updating you guys on where we are with fire and all their concerns, and that's about all I could add to that.
But you're honoring everything when one year left on a contract correct?
Yes
sir. That's kind of my concern there. Then I had one last thing that's been brought to my attention by several people and they're finding it very difficult to deliver oil, hazardous waste. I've had several people tell me you make an appointment it makes it complicated. One sign says you have to be there by 1 o'clock another sign says by 2 o'clock is there a way we can maybe because I guess several of the automotive dealers don't take oil anymore?
And I've already seen oil containers next to garbage cans. So we're gonna start seeing people dump illegally if we can't figure out a way maybe to embrace it a little bit more, to get your people's used motor oil?
Yeah we can update them. Mike if you have any update about how they're doing. I just know my wife went out there and did something this week and she didn't have an issue or anything but we can check in make sure our signage is aligned and make sure...
Can we extend hours because you have to make an appointment to deliver oil.
I know a lot of the AutoZone some of them stopped taking oil so it does put a little bit more demand and we may have to open up at more hours but we can look into that
Is there a way that you think we can make it longer? I mean, one o'clock or two o'clock. That's pretty early for people. I think to get the oil we don't want him to start doing the wrong thing with it so you can look into that. Okay. Anybody else any other questions for the city manager? Councilor Ball.
Quick question and City Manager you can answer Fire Chief Shea if I may. You came and spoke with us maybe a month ago, told us about the situation at the fire station. You used the term strained. Has anything changed since that report?
No sir we continue to be strained. That's no sir, we continue to be strained.
Can you give me a quick synopsis of what the term strained means in the context of the Fire Department?
A number of things, we are strained in our ability to staff all of the apparatus that we generally intend to including two engines on the rescue truck. At this point during the rescue brownout we are reduced to two fire engines only which leaves two apparatus to take any emergency call within the city and leaves our ability to handle a third or concurrent call delayed, or with reliance on Santa Barbara County Fire or Vandenberg Fire.
In other ways, we are strained in our ability to staff company officers in addition to driver operators. For example, in the past week, we've had to use battalion chiefs, four-sided battalion chiefs, to act on a captain company officer rank on the fire engine because of our lack of company officers for the time. So we are in a period right now where We are very strained for all the examples that I explained on May 5th. And we do have a plan in place to overcome these challenges, but we continue to be burdened by additional vacancies and upcoming retirements and our ability to retain employees in the fire service long enough so that they can promote within their ranks.
Sir? Anybody else? Let me go with a quick question on that. I just read through the vacancy report for positions other than Fire Chief, we're not advertising any other positions in fire. Is there a
reason for that? Yeah, I think Kevin don't we have four that are just about done with the interim training so it will be closer to fully
staffed? That's correct. Since May 5th, we have our latest hiring of four new firefighters. They are completing their in-service training this Friday and will be able to staff engines starting on Saturday. That will bring our normal staffing numbers back to almost normal with the exception of the fire chief, but does not give us the ability because a lack of driver operators. So we underfilled our driver operator positions with firefighters with the anticipated goal of getting our staff trained and able to operate the equipment. But at this point, we are behind the curve. And so we're operating in the department with six engineers instead The nine that we're supposed to have.
Let me ask you a question, I noticed recently you guys had to respond all the way down deep in Highway 1 with the Tesla on fire and you just had gone to the homeless shelter out here. You probably would've gone anyways but this regional dispatch, we've increased the amount of territory significantly all the way out to Jalama Beach and almost to Las Cruces
We've been within an agreement, an auto aid agreement with Santa Barbara County Fire for 15-25 years which does have a district so to speak of our territory that we would respond to and for the most part Our responses outside of the city limits remain the same. There isn't really a tremendous amount of call volume outside of the city limits except for on Highway 1, the bridge house like you mentioned And typically, as I've said before, Highway 1, Station 51 right down the road here is the closest fire engine to the highway. And typically those commuters on the highway are either from Lompoc or they're coming to visit Lompoc and so the ability to get the closest fire apparatus down the highway to me is an important thing that we're able to provide as a cooperator within that system.
Maybe we should recommend the county puts a station over there. All right?
That sounds
good to me. Well, keep your eye on that if that's something that we can recuperate some funds for from the county. I'm not opposed to asking for it. Now, we have four county parks we take care of. Ocean Park, Miguelito Park, Santa Rosa Park and Olama Park. So, I mean... I talked to one county supervisor and say if it's burdening maybe we should be paying you guys more money and I think that's the right answer.
Thank you guys. All right, with that we'll move on to public comment on consent calendar. The, let's see.
Mayor before we start on public comment I need to make a couple comments about recusals so for on item number one on the consent calendar there is a check from the city to Mr and Mrs Reardon that is a tenant of Mayor Mosby and therefore a source of income From participation in that approval of one check in item number one, in item number 10, Councilmember Bridge has a financial interest in the potential outcome of that agenda item and therefore will be recusing himself from that item. Also on I will be recusing myself as well from that item.
Because all of these are located on the consent calendar, those individuals do not need to leave the room but because
0:49 – 0:565 turns
All right, so I'm gonna read this long lengthy list of items and then we'll go through the process. But we have approval ratification of expenditures for payroll June 5th, 2026 at 2.156 million. A voucher register from May 25th to 29th of $296,000. Another voucher registered June 1st through 5th for 1.47 million. Another voucher from June 8th to 12th of 565,000 Number two is adoption of ordinance number 1746.26 approving zone change for certain properties on West and East Ocean Avenue. Number three is adoption of ordinance 1747.26 amending municipal code to define ornamental flagpole and clarify building permit requirements.
Number four is award a contract for vehicle lubricants to Safety Clean Systems Incorporated, $374,000 shall not exceed. Number 5 is Approval of Fiscal Year 2027 Revolving Purchase Ordering to Increase Fleet Maintenance Vendors Fuel Suppliers. Number 6, Adoption of Resolution No. 682926 Approving and Authorizing Amendment No. 1 to Project Agreement California-Oregon Transmission Project between and among the transmission agency of Northern California and its members.
And that's a rough contract to get through wasn't it? Number seven is adoption of resolution number 683026, adopting the plans and special provisions awarded in contract for construction approving supplemental appropriations for project number FY25LF1 Lompoc Landfill Gas Collection and Control System. Cost a lot of money to have your own landfill, that's for sure.
Number eight is the introduction of ordinance number 174826 submitting Lompoc Municipal Code 1312 cross-connection to reflect newly adopted state regulations and standards outlined in the State Water Resource Control Board's Cross Connection Control Policy. And number nine is adoption of Resolution 683426 declaring the results of the consolidated primary election held on Lompoc June 2nd, 2026.
Number 10 is to approve professional service agreement with RSG Incorporated for comprehensive review of city's energy and water rebate conservation program. Number 11 is approval amendment for professional service agreement GLI Capital Group incorporated DBA Public Knowledge LLC, formerly Civic Initiative LLC, procurement support services to increase compensation for 89,250 bucks to 203,500 bucks and extend the term To December 31st, 2026.
Adoption of Resolution Number 6833, Princeton's 26 appropriating funds. Number 12 is award of contract purchase order an amount of 1.253 million to twin company for the purchases of a solid waste landfill division replacement bulldozer which I found out was not in the capital improvement plan so I don't know if we need to update modify on that. I did find it deep inside Budget, right? That was a capital project. Right?
Number 13 is a word of invitation to bid number 3107 renovation of college skate park improvement project to JJ Fisher construction corporate in the total amount of 3568 million dollars and direct the city manager execute the construction contract authorize the community development direction execute change order awarding the contract purchase order an amount of hundred eighteen thousand dollars to Great Western Recreation for the purchase of mural wall.
Attached to the skate park, adoption resolution 683-126 approving supplemental appropriations of well more than a million dollars for supplemental appropriations. So project we've been waiting for six years, $5 million for a skate park so the people say we aren't spending money for the kids or big kids. And that's the lucky 13 items. With that, we'll open that up to public comment. When do I want me to go? Now we've got to do Zoom and phone call-ins.
Anybody rising for public comment on the first 13 items they read in? Come on down.
City Council, Mayor, thank you for your time this evening. My name is Robin Dunitz and I'm here in support of the city staff recommendation for item number 13 on the agenda, the appropriation of funds for College Park and award of the contract. This park holds a special place in my heart for many reasons. but probably most of all because of so many treasured memories and friends made at the park.
At the request of the Youth Commission, I became a part of the initial effort to have a skatepark built back in the day and so I remember the dream for College Park was not just a skatepark that was built in 2000. The vision was to have a place centrally located in Lompoc for families to gather, to enjoy outdoor activities. Yes, skateboarding was to be a primary focus at this park but picnicking and other activities were envisioned as well.
Unfortunately that vision was never realized and the park was never expanded past the first build in 2000. However, today we have the opportunity to honor that vision. I understand the situation of appropriating additional funds is not ideal but we don't live in an ideal world. What we do have however is a grant supporting the expansion of this park which would allow it to serve many more people in the community as well as rebuild and update Escape Park that is over 26 years old and in need of some TLC.
We also have the funds available which have been set aside specifically for park development to meet the funding needs so that the project can proceed. For these reasons, I ask you to vote to support staff's recommendation as outlined for College Park. We have the ability today after more than 26 years from the initial dream to make College Park what it has always aspired to be.
Please don't squander this opportunity. Thank you.
Anybody else? I know it's been a long weighted journey and thank goodness for Prop 68 grants. Seeing nobody else rise, how about Zoom cell phones?
Mayor Mosby there is no virtual comment at this time. Are
we good? City Attorney would you alright?
0:56 – 1:086 turns
No, nobody via phone.
We have new state laws, so we have to Zoom and phone call in. With that, I'll close public comment and bring it back to the Council. Deliberation question? Council Member Bridge.
I would like to see Item 13 pulled.
Roll-call vote Passed Moved by Victor Vega
Show transcript
Approved consent.
Minus item 13. Minus 13. And 13 will be a separate discussion immediately before second oral communications. Go ahead and vote. Consent calendar is passed as 5-0. Moving to staff presentation announcements, presentation on policing in the valley.
Good evening, Council, Mayor, public. So this was a presentation... This was a request brought back as the council had requested in the last meeting to update you on the status of the request by Solvang and Buellton to evaluate whether or not it would be affordable and even an option for them Using the City of Lompoc Police Department to police in their communities.
There is no formal contract at this point, there are no signed terms. Nothing has been other than this presentation has been shared with either of those communities. Solvang initiated a proactive exploration of a potential city-to-city law enforcement service agreement with Lompoc Police Department. The Lompoc City Council Directs the next steps after this presentation.
With approval, staff will engage in formal talks with Solvang and Buellton and we will develop an official numbers back contract with them. So for the last better part of 40 years those communities have been policed by the Sheriff's Department. This isn't about Any negative events that they've experienced with them, it really is about are there options and is it affordable to consider?
So Solvang in their process to date has been approved by their council to negotiate an optional one year sheriff's extension effective July 1st 2027 should it be necessary. That's in case we want to move forward, and it may take a little bit more time to get the staffing and equipment and everything in place. Both Solvang and Buellton have requested a proposal from the city to evaluate the cost and service levels associated with police services.
So the idea is this. This is a 100,000 foot look at what we can do if we were to move forward. These would be contract cities. This would be services that we would provide to those communities. I don't look at it as a larger police department. I look at it as service that we're offering. The valley staffing would look Similar to this, depending on how negotiations go and what those two communities would be asking for and what ultimately we would be able to provide. But as it stands right now, we believe that we can provide a lieutenant to act as the basically onsite management of the contracts with both those communities and represent the chief of police when I could not be present should they need me. We would be able to provide four police sergeants, four police corporals, 12 police officers, a motorcycle, a community service officer and a police records technician.
The squads would look like this. It would be exactly the same setup that we currently run 7-7. Each squad would have a sergeant, a corporal and three officers. Again 100,000 foot look we may get to a different number depending on how negotiations go. There are additional positions, shared costs. So the chief of police salary would be shared, police captain would be shared, professional standard sergeant, police dispatcher, property evidence technician and the IT systems administrator and there probably are some within the city that will also be shared depending on how involved they would be in this process.
And again I want to remind and make sure That the council and the public understands no formal negotiations has started at this point. We won't do that until we get approval from the council There are some, if this was to move forward, startup investments that would need to be negotiated with those communities. We would need marked patrol vehicles, unmarked detective vehicle and car officer technology, firearms, protective gear, human resources support and training, and administrative overhead and radio infrastructure. That is one number that we don't currently have yet.
As we're working through the radio project with JBC Kenwood, they're currently researching what that would cost to get the radio out to both those communities. Again, the startup investment really is going to cover a lot of the technology stuff as the council is aware. The police department has invested in a lot of upgraded technology and Prior to us getting to where we are today, there would be no way for us really to effectively provide this as an option to those communities. But as we have upgraded to our new computer-aided dispatch records management system which we are scheduled to go live on next week, we are now able to provide that with an internet connection to the officers out in those communities should we move forward.
So we would need that connection computer-aided dispatch, our records management as well as our body cam and our evidence storage which today is all cloud based and secured. So how does this show up in the day to day? So patrol operations, the police units would never leave the city limits in those communities unless there was an emergency need If the CHP or the Sheriff's Department called for help and we were the closest unit, we would obviously back them on those.
But for the most part, those units would patrol the city limits of those communities. Officers will become familiar with the neighborhoods, businesses, traffic issues, the community and the culture. We would have increased traffic enforcement as you know, the police department handles all of our traffic enforcement as well I'd like That if there were multiple calls for service coming in, there would be a little bit quicker level of service provided to those communities which is a benefit to them.
So the benefits of Buellton and Solvang again this is just off the top right? So an established, dedicated police agency with visible law enforcement engagement within the community builds trust, helps prevent crime, strengthens transparency, a faster resolution of community concerns. It gives Bulton and Solvang a direct relationship with the police leadership here in Lompoc.
The monthly metric reporting to the city leadership. We would obviously have an annual contract evaluation to see how we are providing the service that we agreed Council meeting attendance by the lieutenant or myself. Ongoing coordination to ensure priorities remain aligned, and the shared costs associated with operating a police department as we all know is expensive.
And then regional interoperability and coordination between partner cities Access and integration with Lompoc's new technology, and in my opinion we are moving quickly forward in that area. Our technology is one of the best. So what are the benefits to Lompoc? This creates an economy of scale by spreading a lot of those administrative supervision training and operational costs amongst all the cities.
It helps offset police department costs through those shared regional service funding. It supports potential growth in staffing, equipment technology and specialized police services. Provides a more stable funding base for police operations through long term service contracts. If there's a major incident in the city of Lompoc it will be because they are covering the cost of additional officers to come into this department, the officers that weren't working in those communities at the time we would be able to recall those and assist with these events.
Increased opportunities for grant funding and regional public safety partnerships enhances regional coordination on crime trends investigations traffic safety and emergency response and improves communications and cooperation between Lompoc Yoltan and Solvang It also gives Lompoc a stronger voice in regional public safety planning and policy discussions. You know, as we all are trying to grow this community and make it bigger and have the bigger presence in the county, this is just another way for Lompoc to help push that forward and grow this community in a real positive manner.
So at this point, I'm going to hand over this presentation to Bob Cross to talk about the financials and I'll be available at the end to answer any other questions.
1:08 – 1:1820 turns
Good evening. I want to start by reminding you again Chief Martin said we haven't Really heading to conversations with Solvang or Buellton. We've just run some initial projections in-house to kind of look at what this might look like financially. So looking at, we've looked at our numbers internally and we've looked at the contracts that Buellton and Solvag currently have with the county.
And we're looking at the total cost, Buellton and Solvagn are about 3.4, 3.5 million total for what they're The amount of officers they're receiving. Our cost would be about $4.1 million or so total. That's our initial projections, it's rough at this point but that's what we're projecting at this time. But you can see for FTEs and costs they are currently about eight FTEs in their contracts each. We have about 28 FTES we would be committing to this for, you know, eight instead. They'd each be getting about 14 on average so they're getting almost double the staffing costs for a little bit more cost on them and then again breaking it down do you see the difference? It's this direct patrol is higher. The patrol support is a lot higher. We have a lot more FTEs in patrol support than they're currently getting from the county And then there's also some in the contract and the law enforcement support.
So again, these are initial projections when if we have the go ahead to get more in detail with Buellton and Solvang, we will bring back further numbers at this point but this is just initial projections so.
So the next steps, we are here tonight with the presentation and depending on your approval to give us to move forward in the actual beginning of the negotiation process. We'll wait to hear from you on that. Once we have that, we'll meet with the partner cities, set some clear expectations with both communities and work towards negotiating a contract. We will develop a detailed model and contract. You've seen Tentatively, the staffing schedules will get all the actual numbers figured out and ultimately come back to the council for a final consideration. So with that I'll answer any questions and then we do have representation from Solvang that would like to speak as well.
You had a question. I mean you talk about all the benefits what are some of the negative problems with doing this?
Well, I reached out to a community that does this down in Los Angeles and one of the issues that they brought up is that there is a little bit more of a burden on the chief of police to manage the three communities. And as you all know when you want to talk to the chief, you want to talk to the chief as a council member or as a mayor so there is that burden on it. I don't look at it I don't see a lot. We have to go into the negotiation process to drive down, to find out ultimately what those negatives will be but at this point I'm not seeing too many negatives when it comes to engaging in this and the ultimate for us is we're going to be able to have access to additional officers that we couldn't afford in our budget right now if we were to have a major incident and that would also of value to both of those communities if they had a major incident.
So, you know, if we identify some of those challenges, we'll definitely bring them forward but at this point I think it's a little premature to identify every last little thing that comes forward on a negative level.
In the last year, yourself and one of your lieutenants have said we're in crisis levels of staffing. My concern that I see here is if we were in a crisis of staffing again—I understand you've worked your tail off to get out of that level of crisis—but what would we do if you're under contract and you had four or five people you couldn't deploy here? What would you have to do? Would we have to take from Lompoc staff to make sure those positions are full?
We would have a contract that we would have to honor, but at the same time based on those numbers of what we believe we're going to hire to be able to provide the service that both communities would need. The officers who aren't working and That community that's assigned to that community would be available for overtime in our community to help cover those costs as we move forward with the hiring process to refill us. You know, we haven't been having a lot of problems in that area of recruiting right now. This actually puts us on a bigger map for individuals wanting to be police officers, that Lompoc is growing the way it is.
It would send a real positive message to people wanting to become police officers.
And that's my biggest concern, if it'll liberate that crisis problem and it's not going to enhance it and make it worse. Then I mean, that's my biggest concern but you're answering that one that we should be not in that problem again because we can share from both people.
We haven't lost anybody in almost three years from this department. The staff seem to be very happy with the direction of the police department and as I said earlier in the presentation, it gives us more of a presence in the county as a police agency where people would really consider wanting to come work for us.
Another concern, I didn't notice anything for legal. Do you have a legal aspect in these numbers? I know you're preliminary, but I know settlements and insurance and all that is a hefty expense. Is that anticipated in here somewhere?
That'll all be included as we move forward in this process, but I did ask the city attorney to prepare to answer any questions or make comments should he need to. But I think it's a little premature until we start
working
through
this. No, it can be very expensive. And I know when you end up getting payouts on certain things those can be very costly I know that our coffers are strained itself, so who would be responsible if it's City of Lompoc employees contracting out? Usually the contractor has to eat it. So is that what would happen as well with this?
This would be handled just like any other division. All the attorney costs, HR costs, finance costs, my cost would all be just aligned inside their budget just like all the other divisions like fire and water. Everybody has that same cost that they get allocated out And we usually look back on history and try to get as close as we can, but a lot of that's budgetary. Yeah, we do it, but they would be incorporated into those budget rates.
So if you can find that in this book, your cost allocation book, good luck. But I do challenge that aspect because it's a significant variable that's hard to track. If you had an officer involved shooting, how does that get covered? Because this is an expensive honor to do. So what would that, City Attorney?
It would be the agency that is providing the police services if it was their negligence that resulted in the officer-involved shooting and some injury due to negligence then they would be the agency that's providing those police services If the injury or the damage was caused by something that the other city, Sullivan or Buellton did then their fault would then get calculated into how much they would be responsible for for the damages or injury.
I mean it's one of the concerns I have when you go out contracting out we are self-insured with what 27 million less than that now in the bank But it's very expensive to do what the city does already. Another question is, I noticed you didn't have detectives in here? Is that in here as well or something you add on? We've
had a brief discussion on the need for detectives in that area. We feel like that would probably be something we would negotiate with them in the contract. Their call volume and based on my conversations with Mr. Murphy and the mayor are fairly low when it comes to some of these things, but we're going to cross that bridge in the negotiation process.
And no homeless liaisons and all those other fun things that we have. But I definitely see an advantage that it wasn't up there, but it gives the other two communities an opportunity to compete Which right now they're kind of at the mercy of one person. So it does provide that community, which I think is one of the largest options they have. One of the biggest benefits to this gives them that opportunity to not be at the mercy of one vendor.
So I think there's a huge opportunity for them but let's just say hypothetically we get this built out and established in a couple years from now, they cancel us what do you do with all these
Well that was one of the things, the conversations that we had. If we were to move forward with this I'd want a long-term contract. I don't want to hire a bunch of people to do this and find out in just a few years they don't want our service anymore so there would be that in the negotiation process. The goal towards Thank you. It was a good presentation. I obviously have
1:18 – 1:2921 turns
Related around I don't want to lose focus on our city, and I think that's kind of buried in lots of the questions you have been receiving. In the press it's been reported that these cities are looking for a fairly rapid ramp up for this kind of, and so that's a concerning issue to me because it looked to me back at the envelope we're looking at 18 months to get this done. So those timelines look a little unrealistic to me that I'd heard in the press. I'm not saying you said those but We get our data where we can.
The other concern I had is the logistics of where these people are going to be. We've obviously been a need for new stations for some time. You're talking about bringing, I think it was 13 or 15 new guys on pretty quickly. You know, I assume they're not gonna be sitting in a cafe somewhere. So As you get into the negotiations that would be one of my concerns
well so solving has already reached out to us and said we have we have a facility that we own that we'd be interested in making a police station And that there is a long-term goal that they have as a city to build a more formal commercial police facility in their city I'm highlighting the things that didn't quite get out of the report.
And the mayor touched on one, and a long-term contract is almost mandatory because there's upfront. I think this will still fall under cost of service kinds of approach. So we'll cover some fixed costs but there's no profitability line in here. I know I sometimes sound repetitive, but in my business a part of the profit that you achieve goes to what would be called bid and proposal.
And my rough calculation was it's going to take, if assuming my estimate on the timeline is the same as correct or close, it's going to take one to two Man years of effort to get this on contract. Is there any way that cost gets recovered or do we go through these negotiations, spend the manpower legitimately and then it doesn't work out? Do we, is there a way to recover those kinds of costs because those are not insignificant especially someone at your level involved and so that was a concern.
I don't think anything prevents us from incorporating those costs into the contract compensation amount if desired.
So that'll be, again, if the contract's awarded?
That is true,
yes. So the city government doesn't have an equivalent BNP kind of way to recover cost. Are those just absorbed by the general fund then?
Well, I would say that pretty much any contract or agreement that the city looks to enter we negotiate back and forth for quite some time. And then if it ends up going south and we don't enter into it then those are just lost costs. There are ways that you can upfront enter into a MOU with an arrangement where you say okay we're gonna spend a period of time negotiating And you come up with some arrangement about how the costs are going to be allocated if it all fails.
That's a possibility that we could do
here. Okay, well I'd like you to as you're addressing this project, I would like to see that those get addressed in some fashion because those were the ones that jumped out at me.
We'll make sure we include that.
So thank you. I think I'm very interested to have the conversation, obviously things have to pencil out on both sides and there's devils in the details for sure but maybe zooming back out to that hundred thousand foot level, I'm just curious let's walk through some of our goals as a city is to stabilize... Sorry can you hear that better? Stacy's happy now One of our goals in the city is to stabilize our department, make sure we have good retention.
Well, in that area over time there's some growth potential. And I think one of the just big picture benefits could be those shared costs and I have to think and Bob maybe you can educate me a little bit if some of those costs are shared from a little bit of your time to administrative cost, HR any of those things how might that positively impact our general fund And I know you can't promise anything, but how should we start looking at that potential of an impact positive or negative on the GF?
Right. It would have a positive impact not only for covering police dispatch services, direct services within the Police Department and the Police Chief It also financed, I mean we do our payroll cost. We wouldn't need additional finance staff but part of those costs would be pushed out through the cost allocation plan similar to how we calculated what the police charge would be. Yes thank you Mayor and similarly HR their costs are allocated based on hires for the year and personnel safety officers So there are a lot of internal costs that are borne by the general fund that are allocated out among the city, the other city departments. And this would give another avenue, another allocation for those costs so it would support you know it would support those services with
So very generally speaking, if we had some sort of additional revenue coming into the general fund or we didn't have as high of a cost as we had in certain areas. As a leader, I could say well if we freed up some funds that allows us to potentially talk about pay raises or hiring additional people. Or saying maybe in a completely different area such as a park or maybe the fire department or someplace else they might benefit because we have the flexibility of additional funds. Is that a fair way to look at the general fund?
Yeah it would give any services within the general fund would potentially have additional revenue stream.
So again, the reason I'm very interested in this and again it has to pencil out is that we're always having the same complaint in Lompoc. We don't have enough revenue, we don't have enough revenue to stabilize our departments and we can't keep our parks as looking as good and as fixed as we'd like them too because there's not enough revenue in the general fund so at least from my perspective again I'm very interested to learn more but it could positively impact our general fund giving us flexibility in a lot of positive ways in the city Again, I'd love to hear the details but that's my thinking on that. Thank you
So one question for the chief here How do you go from day zero to day one? Do you hold these guys and gals, officers in the wings somewhere with contracts or how do we sit there? Where are you going to find an extra lieutenant? Four sergeants, four police corporals and 12 officers and one motorcycle officer.
So in our negotiation process, we will negotiate with the communities to front those costs to us to be able to get moving on the hiring aspect of this. The cities both understand that we have some hiring to do and we're going to need that expense covered by them There's a couple ways we can do that. One is to focus on laterals, if we've got some sheriff's deputies that are retiring soon and they live in those communities. I think
there are like 25 they're going to let go
or something. But that's a real possibility that we could bring in already deputies that are familiar with the area, that have worked the area and offset some of hiring that we're going to need to do and focus. That way, we can just focus on brand new putting them through the academy on half of the numbers that we would have had to do if we were recruiting for the whole thing. So there is a pathway to doing it is what I'm sharing with you.
I don't know exactly what that is until we actually negotiate numbers and things like that but they would come here. We would have to make sure that they We have to make sure that they're trained and able to do what they need to do. And, you know, we've never done in this city what's called bakering a unit which is having two officers in every police car but we could do that in this way and making sure that they're trained and capable of doing the job that they need to do when they're
in those conditions. Who's going to pay them? Are you guys going to pay them then? Sounds like a bargain. I did for full disclosure, I did go with a lunch with solving built in the chief and the city manager. So I got a little bit of information a couple months ago on that but really in seeing logically how to put this together is going from day zero to day one.
That's gonna be a lot... It's a lot of work and we all understand that and that's why we're coming forward and saying how do you want us to proceed at this point?
1:29 – 1:3824 turns
I
just want us to be clear, or at least that I'm properly recognizing this. These are cost of service services. You're going to do an allocation But those allocations have no upside in them. You're not gaining anything if somebody's doing the work and you're getting, gonna charge for it. Correct. So other than some perhaps high level chief and maybe a lieutenant or two that can be spread and that you wouldn't replace there's no gain here in money. There's a gain in flexibility There was a gain in management, having resources you can spread. I see all those advantages but we're not going to get extra money out of this to give raises or To do any additional staffing for Lompoc because they would get charged to Lompoc Not to these contracts that's how that
works right? But there are a lot of general fund expenditures that would be shared by Solvang and Buellton. would still be paid by the City of Lompoc payroll. So, the payroll costs for instance would they would pay a share of those costs finance costs.
Those costs would be additional effort to pay those people
They're manageable without additional cost.
We have people that are working less than what we're charging for
now? It's an economy of scale. We can pay 20, 30 more people with our current
scale. Well I can understand an economy of scale in a production environment where I can get more widgets out but I don't understand an economy of scale if a person is sitting at a desk doing a job and they're charging whoever they're doing that job for. It's because you're implying that right now there is cushion in our staff, and I don't really think at least that hasn't been our mantra for the last two years that I've been here that we can't even get all our reports out because we don't have enough staff.
And now you're saying oh well we can absorb this with no additional manpower? I don't think you're being realistic or thinking that through really, but that's my opinion. I don't see any profit in this. I see a lot of advantage and economies of being able to leverage across the workforce and training bringing people up. I'm all for a bigger base, but I don't want us to think we're making money on this because I don't think in government we can make money We, a couple of the positions maybe deans and the chief can say okay well now I can take and put half my time somewhere else but the finance clerk can't do that. They've got to allocate their time for the service they're performing.
This would be about 20-25 additional staff on a staff of 400 so it's not a large increase to the amount we have, and same with IT. It could you know it's...
I'm not suggesting it can't be done. I'm suggesting there's no... It's not like money is going to magically all of a sudden occur so we can give raises.
The increase to the general fund will be greater than the additional costs. We believe.
Jeff do you want to comment on that?
I actually don't know for sure whether this is a cost of service limited type of service.
I think we ought to look at that in your study then because I don't believe that statement you just said, I have trouble with that statement. I believe this is cost of service and if you're saving money that should be Certainly can be allocated to the contract if you're not serving them. And if it's allocated to us, then it's going to cost us more so I just, please include that in your study with enough clarity.
So I just had a question. I'm going to speak right into the mic. So one of the things that will always bite us or hamstring us as a department or as a city is when we're faced with a situation in our department where either training wasn't adequate, an ethical decision was missed, or somebody did something bad Obviously our job is to have the healthiest, most ethical department possible. We would want to extend that into Solvang and Buellton if we were to take that on.
Would some of this extra stabilization or these contracts allow us to maintain if not go even heavier into higher-end training, additional training. Again if something bad happens over there it's a reflection on us. So can you talk about training and having the best department both here and their potential?
Absolutely. The one thing I will never do as your chief is lower our standard for hiring that will never happen we will whatever officer is working in the valley will be at the same level as an officer here in Lompoc And one of the things that we've been able to do and in support of the council has always, we've always been able to continue our training and the money that we've been provided from the council to do that.
So as we get these additional officers those communities will also have to help pay for the training of the officers that'll be policing their communities as well. So we won't drop our training, we will always keep it up and we will always make sure we have the best officers that we can hire policing whatever community they're in. Because they'll work a six month rotation. Like one of the things I really like about this idea, they average about 5,000 calls a year.
We average about 35 to 38,000 calls a year. And when our officers are here working as hard as they do and I can put them on a six month rotation and in the valley, that's a decompression that they go through. And it's really healthy for the officer in their career and it's healthy for this community because then they come back after six months and they're back at it and they have a much better approach to their job. So for me as chief I'm really excited about that aspect if you give us the permission to move forward but we will always make sure we have the best qualified out there
And so you're talking about this rotation, so officers would get to possibly work here and rotate back and forth.
Yeah.
Is that something that is that something that you think the department would be excited about?
I think so.
Thank you for that. One other question, you just kind of brought it up. You said they have roughly 5,000 calls and we have about 35,000 calls. I know what our staffing is here and I know what you're thinking of standing up there. Is there a chance that they get better per capita coverage in their staffing than we would get based on call volume? And I think that's a fair question.
No, absolutely. I think it is. I mean, I think realistically but that's the negotiation process right? One of the things that I have to have as chief is like, the sheriff's in a position where they have other deputies that are close by even though they're not assigned to that community. That can back an officer in that community. We're 15 plus minutes away so we have to have a squad deployed out for those two cities to make sure they can back each other right? So when I'm looking at it, I'm looking at a full deployment of a squad to make sure that those officers are safe and they can go home every night. And that's why we've built it out in the way that I showed you tonight so that they're safe, the communities get the policing that they deserve and our people can do their job successfully.
So I guess my request is if this goes forward, is that Lompoc doesn't get the short end of any of this. Obviously, if we're in contract with him, we're obligated to provide a certain level of service. Things have been flowing our city all the time. I would just want to make sure that we were able to at least stay where we're at, if not continue to aggressively build a healthy department that protects us also.
Absolutely and you know an interesting point was brought up to me when we've been meeting on this for the last few weeks One of the team members on this, because it included multiple entities within the city said you know one of the biggest things that I see as a resident here in Lompoc is the resources we'll have if we have a major incident here. We'll have at minimum of 10 officers that are off duty that would normally be working in the valley departments that are now available to respond to Lompoc and help us if we have that major incident so Councilmember Starbuck.
1:38 – 1:4727 turns
The sheriff Brown know what you're up to. Yes, well what is representatives in the off in the room right now on the very back I mean is there any input on the county about this or
just. You know sheriff Brown and I have had numerous discussions on this I haven't I wanted him to be aware that the communities had reached out to us. And that I've kept them as a matter of fact, two weeks ago we discussed it and let them know that we were moving forward and doing a presentation tonight so this isn't something that any other communities are trying to hide from the sheriff and I'm definitely not kept him up to speed on everything and when the request first came in I briefed him on it so he's aware of it.
That you guys got something to come up and say? Come on down.
Good evening Mayor Moseby and members of the Lompoc Council. My name is Randy Murphy, I'm the city manager of the City of Solvang. I'm here tonight because Chief Martin's team has presented a proposal that involves my city and I want to speak to it briefly as we've talked about, as was pointed out in this presentation, Solvange has contracted with the Sheriff Department since our organization back in 1985 And in May of this year, our council voted unanimously to authorize staff to negotiate an agreement with the City of Lompoc for law enforcement services to be effective in July of next year. Recognizing that it takes a while to get up to speed so we want to get started now if possible.
This is not a hasty decision. Salt Bank Council identified the evaluation of the Sheriff's contract as a formal goal in our current biannual budget structure goal setting session back in February. Let me be clear, the effort to find a new law enforcement partner is not a reflection of the deputies performing the actual work in the City of Solvang. However it is a reflection of the value that the City of Solvang receives for the almost 3.5 million dollars that we're going to spend this year.
A cost that has increased almost 100% in the last decade And without a corresponding improvement in service levels or accountability to the city. Simply stated, our primary driver is cost of law enforcement to our... The cost of law enforcement is our largest general fund expenditure representing nearly 25% of all discretionary spending. What Chief Martin's team has put together is exactly what we asked for, a proposal allowing or showing what the same investment would produce under a different structure.
Two to three dedicated officers in Solvang at all times, officers who stay within the city limits, comprehensive monthly reporting and a direct relationship with police command. Solvang is serious about this. Contrary to what some have stated publicly and privately, we are not using this as an exploration or negotiating ploy with the Sheriff's Department. We have a contract that expires less than a year from now, and we intend to have a new arrangement in place before then.
Chief Martin and his team have our full confidence in cooperation, and we look forward to working with both Lompoc and Buellton to make this a reality. We the city of Solvang and I respectfully request you to allow staff to negotiate with us so we can learn how this will work. Thank you.
Again, I guess one of the concerns again I have is going that zero to We have
It is, and you know a few years ago when we were first reached out the city was not in a place to even consider it. We have now built an infrastructure within the police department on technology level that we can now offer this service to their communities should the council give us approval to move forward with negotiations and ultimately come to an agreement with the communities but The city of Solvang recognizes it's a heavy lift for us.
We will immediately upon approval and a contract sign start recruiting and working hard to try and get the numbers together we would need. They understand that there are expenses that they're gonna have to front, and we'll negotiate all that in the contracts and trying make this a reality with the approval of all three councils so
What does the rest of your team think over there? You're good to go. Thumbs up, yeah. Head nods yes. We got two out of three. They're not sure. We didn't get them all thumbs up yet.
Yeah I think obviously we're at 100,000 foot level. There's
a lot of talking about that scope. But these guys are wanting to drink from a fire hose so you better get ready. And I don't think you guys want to get, we don't want to see you guys getting strained. You know officers having an OT and OT's all fun until, you know, till you get too much of it. Right. And straining the people out that's a big bite. Big bite. Just make sure that doesn't happen, I don't want to hear that like we're doing over here on the other side.
Council Member Ball and then I'll get Council Member Starbucks.
No just real quick if this did move forward talk to me about the logistics and timing over the next couple of months obviously they've got a relatively short timeline, a lot of hustle and work on your end to try to stand something up but when might council actually see how it pencils out? When will we know its positive or break even impact on the general fund etc all those things
Well, we'd have to get working right away with the negotiation process. Part of that would be also in working through the frontage costs that they would have to bear on getting us in that position to be able to start the hiring process. You know this was the first step, getting approval from Council to enter into those negotiations and I think doing that...
I would feel more comfortable coming back to the council to answer that question once we start the negotiation process and seeing how it Really wanting to make this happen in a fast way, and I think Buellton's behind that as well. And these
guys are in the front row so we know something is up.
Most of their council has toured the police department and Buellton is in the process as well. They've seen everything that we offer they've had questions they've brought issues and we've discussed those and I think we're ready to start sitting down and working out the numbers and going through that process To be able to give you an honest, truthful answer I think coming back and giving an answer that is probably the best direction.
Council Member Starbuck and then Council Member Bruce.
Well, I was going to go ahead and say, you know what? I'm kind of like all about moving this forward. I don't see a reason to hold back on it but one of the requirements for me to give it a big thumbs up yes is I'd like you to come back in October Chief.
Okay.
You know it's a couple months. It's just prior to election. This will be a new council issue but at least Going into the new cycle of councils, it'll be clear for what we're doing and what's been happening. Okay. Thank you. Councilor Bridge?
Yeah I concur with that and I think we should move forward so I don't know if that's a motion.
Wait hold on.
Public comment. Yeah exactly thank you.
You don't have it as agendized direction public comment and stuff but is that what you want?
We do need to take public comment on it,
yes. Usually we don't get to do that on these things.
If the council's going to give direction you need to hear from
the public first. Well that's the complication, it wasn't identified for direction so... We're allowed to do this anyways? Without head nods?
You need to take public comment before you give direction. Alright, public comment. In person and virtual and phone. Okay.
Let's do it.
1:48 – 1:5312 turns
They got Kool-Aid there. How you doing Carl Jones? Questions, you know... Sometimes I think this might be a win-win sometimes I'm not sure. I know we get grants for law enforcement. Are those city based grants or agency grants? If it's a city based grant towards law enforcement and our cities are communicating with each other we could actually get Triple the grants to help our law enforcement officers. So there are ways that they could manipulate things to actually help pay law enforcement if these are city-based grants, because if everybody's putting in for the same grant and everybody gets awarded it, that would help out. I do like the concept of having a larger reactionary force if something hit The fans so to say for all three cities.
That actually sounds good to me, you know? So in some ways I think it might be a good thing. There might be some tail ends of this that need to be worked out but I would definitely want to make sure it's well thought out if they do move forward both the financials and outside of financials. The logistics as well as the operational all has to be really Thank you very much.
Hi, my name's Leanne Wolver. I think...I don't have enough information. A lot was given tonight but I still don't think we have enough information to make a good intellectual guess. My suggestion is to move forward in this just to get more information, more details on how this will work. Thank you.
Any other public comment? Zoom or telephone? Oh, there we go. We got another one. Come on down.
Hi Mayor, City Council, Joyce Sowerton. Boy I came tonight to honor Anne McCarty from the Rape Crisis Center and I feel like I went back in time. I don't know if there's anybody in this room that remembers but in the mid 90s the city negotiated with the Sheriff's Department to contract our police services out And a lot of the questions you're asking right now, there's no way it could be an answer without negotiation and serious negotiation. I think at that time in the 90s we probably spent up to six months in discussion with the Sheriff's Department.
And one thing that I would like to just advise Solvang and Buellton and the City of Lompoc Everybody in the community should know what you're doing. Back then, we were advised that we should keep it quiet and really do negotiations quietly and then we'll present it. Well I still have the scars from those days. I mean people in the community went nuts. There were, I mean people...I can't tell you all the different things they thought we were trying to do, were going to do might do I think good town hall meetings in each of the community to sit down and say, this is what we're talking about. This is what we're considering. And one thing I found is that with all due respect Elected officials seldom have the right answers, but if you go out into the public and ask them they have the answers.
They've got really good information and I would encourage you to look at that as well because The community needs to be a part of this to have buy-in And I'm excited because we can add even more diversity to the police department when you end up Going along with this so thank you
Anybody else? Public comment. We good? No Zoom, no phone?
No Teams or phone comment.
Okay. What are we on? Not Zoom, what did you call it?
Microsoft Teams.
Who?
Microsoft Teams.
Okay. I wasn't sure what we're doing. All right nobody advised me about this by the way just let you guys know thank All right. So what do you need a motion to go ahead and move forward? Is that can be the city attorney's got a head nod yes, and into the public commenter That's when I found out this was happening and heard all the vibes inside in the paper That's why we're having this discussion But without a doubt we want to make sure transparently moving forward of what's going on so We've got a motion by Vega to do something. What are you gonna do?
Councilor Vegas
for us to move forward with negotiation allowing them to And seconded by Councilman Starbuck.
1:53 – 2:0812 turns
Include the October report back.
Okay, with an October return from the police chief and give us a motion.
All right I'll second. All
right go ahead vote. Now you guys can have official Thursday meetings now huh? Let's see. You guys want to do it in reverse here? What have we got going on? Almost, huh? Aquatic Center. Play structure.
Council, Mayor, my name is Hannah Wallace. I am your Parks and Recreation Manager. I am bringing this presentation to you as a council request. A couple meetings ago, I think it was requested that we get an update on the aqua play structure. And we've also brought some replacement options for you. So the closure of the AquaPlay structure has not significantly impacted aquatic center operations.
Facilities that remain open within the larger facility are the competition pool, the activity pool, the warm water therapy pool and the two 125 foot water slides. The locker rooms are still accessible, the patio and the classroom. The programs, all of our programs continue. Swim lessons, parent-child programs, recreation swim.
I'm sorry to interrupt but I don't know what an aqua play structure is? Is that the big slides?
So the aqua play structure is located in the activity pool. It is not the two large slides that are off to the side, it's the large play structure. It's kind of like a playground facility that's located in our zero entry depth area, yeah. So we do have all of our programming that is continuing, all of our swim lessons, all of our parent-child programs, recreation swim, weekend rentals, water exercise programs, lifeguard and swim instructor training, lap swim and swim teams. So all of that is still happening despite the structure closure.
The key message here would be that the aquatic center remains operational it is just missing a significant recreational attraction currently. So the history of the AquaPlay structure, the original equipment was installed with facility instruction. It has been in service since September 2006. It's approximately 20 years old. The structure operates in a demanding environment with continuous exposure to chlorinated water, ultraviolet radiation, coastal moisture and salt-laden air. And it also has frequent daily use resulting in normal operational wear and tear.
The industry service life of one of these aquatic play structures, they typically have an expected service life of approximately 15 to 20 years depending on environment and maintenance conditions. So we can conclude that the structure has reached the end of its useful service life. So on March 30th of this year, staff removed the structure from service after identifying rust and iron discharge from internal water piping. Small metal fragments and shards found in the pool basin increased corrosion throughout the structure so they immediately closed the structure, removed the debris from the pool, requested an expedited Cal-OSHA inspection, and continued operation of the remainder of the activity pool.
On April 6th, the California Division of Occupational Safety and Health came to inspect. And the inspector documented multiple areas of corrosion throughout the structure, sharp edges caused by rust accumulation, severe corrosion on structural support columns, corrosion within internal water tubes and spray features, and rusted metal pieces dislodging into ride areas.
The requirements of that inspection are replacement of damaged components, comprehensive manufacturer-developed repair procedures, corrosion abatement program and that structural repairs are performed to engineering standards. So these are some of the examples of deterioration identified during the staff inspections and statewide inspections. You can see corroded support columns, missing hardware, rust accumulation, corroded water tubes, structural deterioration and sharp edges that were identified during the
inspection. The bucket in the middle right there? How long has that bucket been inoperable?
That was inoperable before I became the aquatic supervisor. I was the aquatic supervisor, been there for about two-and-a-half years
If I understand you've got about a one ton item that's been inoperable sitting above the kids head. In a structure, I went down there today and there are still kids not on the structure but close by it which I found very interesting we have a structure that is failing why would we have the youth and adults in a pool around it?
That was not something that caused Cal OSHA to shut us down. The weight of that, the structure is still able to allow for programming in the rest of the activity pool. So we came up with some options. We got the original contractor to give us some quotes. This is option one, and it is the scope of the project would be to demolish and remove the existing AquaPlay structure, remove the associated equipment, and cap the utilities.
That can all be done for about $35,500. Option two would be replacement with some basic water features. We picked two of the more popular but very basic water features, what they would essentially do would be to cap the utilities rather not to cap the utilities we would not cap the utilities and we would use those utilities to install these features over the two pipes that come up out of the bottom of the aquatic structure. So you can see the two features on the left-hand side and then kind of see a footprint of what is currently existing, and then how the two features would fit into that on the right hand—on the left-hand side.
That would be about $210,000. It is a lower replacement cost. It's the lowest replacement cost We would still have maximum programming flexibility. We would have improved sight lines for supervision. There would be reduced maintenance and much lower staffing requirements for those two structures to replace the current AquaPlay. Option three, the Whitewater AquaSplash and Spray Toys.
This comes in at about $459,000-$460,000 As you can see, it's a little bit more interactive. It's like a splash pad but it wouldn't be exactly a splash pad because you would be functioning in a depth of water. This allows for programming flexibility, improved sight lines for supervision. It would have reduced maintenance and same or potentially lower staffing requirements. So this option would allow us to have fun cool exciting things for the kids that are interactive and yet still be able to keep that area open during the day to activities. We currently can't program that area very much during the day because the current feature that is in the pool causes a very big This is an area where we have a barrier to sight. So our daytime staffing is a little bit more challenged because most of our staffing are high school kids and college kids.
This type of replacement would allow us to have one guard guarding lap swim, group exercise in the lap lanes while still making this area available to parent-child swim, toddler swim, daytime mommy We can't fulfill those requests at this time due to staffing, so this would allow us to have a little bit more flexibility with our staffing. This is the Whitewater Aquaform 2. It comes in at a little over half a million to replace, as you can see it's a smaller footprint still from the original structure. They did add in like an additional mushroom over to the side.
It would still be very interactive and very fun. It would still allow us to increase our open water programming space. It would still be a lower maintenance burden than what we currently have. There would be a similar guest experience and we would be able to operate this at the same staffing levels that we currently have. And the big one, so this, the Whitewater Aquaform 3 $737,000. It's the closest replacement to the existing experience. It has the highest attraction value, the strongest visual impact, the highest capital cost.
It would require similar maintenance and similar staffing and it does have the largest footprint so it may decrease the programmability of that space As far as swim lessons are concerned, group exercise and a lot of our other special programming. So additional CIP considerations this is regarding the condition of the activity pool surface. Surface repairs that we have done in-house have increased over time due to visible wear cracking and delamination The existing plaster has reached advanced age of eight to 10 years. The industry standard for plaster is eight to 10 years, and we're at nine years right now with the existing plaster.
An additional investment will be required regardless of the play structure decision. So we're coming up on having to re-plaster all of the pools in the facility anyway. So this should... Also be considered as part of the decision of what we do next. These are some of the conditions of the plaster these are pictures that we took In our last closure when we drained the pool and did a lot of the plaster patching ourselves, you can see that there's pocking and cracking. You can see the big patches that we put in, a lot of the wear and tears around the play structure but you can also see it into where the depth It becomes deeper. You can see it in the lap lanes, that's from you know just being a shallow pool people walk in it they run in it they exercise in it they swim in it swim lessons etc there's just a lot of wear and tear in that pool.
It is our highest used pool. The replaster costs so to replaster all of the pools at the aquatic center The estimated cost is $1.2 million. To do the activity alone would be half of that, $616,863. Generally when you re-plaster one pool in a facility you have to re-plaster all of the pools in the facility especially in our facility where The roof is so high, there's no way to cut one pool off from the other pool. There's no way to hang sheeting or plastic so that the dust from everything that you have to do to replace the plastic doesn't get into the other pools. So all of the pools would be drained. All of-the whole facility would be shut down. You can't really pick one pool out without closing the whole facility.
So yeah, the activity pool would be our priority if we had to just do one pool at a time. Then it would be the therapy pool that does also have warm water in it so the plaster is just on a different level chemicals in the plaster and then the competition pool after that would be our third, would be our priority. And I'm open for questions.
Council Member Bull. Thank you for the presentation. I'm sad to say when I was a kid, I used the old pool that we blew up over here and I didn't really go to the Aquatic Center until I had kids so now it's...I didn't go to the Aquatic Center until I had kids? And so a couple of the limitations, and I'm playfully pushing back a little bit. My son is not old enough or tall enough to enjoy the 125-foot slide. So that's a limitation.
And I do appreciate you saying everything at the pool is open except for that part but that's almost like saying hey, Beaty Park it's amazing. You can go play soccer. You can go for hikes. You could read stories but we took out the playground Obviously, it's going to have some impact. So for me personally and for a lot of people families that I know in the community that play structure is a It kind of anchors that whole spot and it's obviously something fun to do for younger kids Slightly older and it brings in a lot of people from out of town too so again Where we get the money from is the other question but to me? That's an important feature I'd hate to see it just be removed and there are six inches of water that just I guess you walk through to get to the deeper part, right?
So a couple comments on that. I guess, and I don't know who to even direct this
2:08 – 2:148 turns
to. Yes. Council Member Bridge can't hear you when you're speaking sideways with the microphone behind you.
Can you hear me now? So in the city's infinite wisdom before I was old enough to be on council, obviously we make wise decisions to project that the end of life cycle will happen eventually and we put money aside to replace things. Dean, I know that's not the case here so tell me why and what happened with our city and its infinite wisdom to not put money aside to replace this now.
Good question. If it's okay, Mayor, can I ask Hannah a couple questions? Yeah, do it. So I know no one is going to be excited about just taking everything out. There's nothing there but like the one for 210 you have a couple of features there and then as you go to the next one you have a couple more features. When it comes to the features something that we could keep the plumbing going and put a couple and then later on add more and so on and so forth, that's
Yes, so that's why I included option two because you know it is kind of a dud just to remove and cap. So you know rather than capping those there are two large pipes like stub ups that come out at the bottom of the pool That was not why we asked for that option. That would be like it could be a temporary fix, it could be something that we do temporarily while we're looking for other funding or other options are putting it into our CIP for 27 to 29.
So yes, it is something that...
To answer your question Jeremy you're right. That's one of the things that I've been trying to do for a lot of things. Replacement costs for engines and playground equipment and everything. You know me being the finance guy, you know I see this and I'm like oh 1.5 million for a skate bar, 2 million dollars for the other one. Where are we getting all this money? But we'll have to look at it logistically and see how we can do it like I was saying And so I appreciate that.
This meeting is You know, the Bel Air approach and maybe going for something in the middle considering that you've got staff and cost and some of those
things. Yeah. I get that. Staff for us we love option three. It's the interactive aqua splash and spray toys it would still include something like a slide. It doesn't have to be all of those features in there but that...I've worked at many other pools and they a lot of them do have I would like to make it easier Those staff at that time and that council at that time to be able to make these maintenance decisions or not because we've been able to maintain these features.
But this, these features we love because you can see around them easily so you can guard this area lifeguard this area. and the lap pool in a much, and still offer interactive activities for children. And for families you know because that is the fun part about it I would love to have this pool open all day every day. The facilities open come play in the pool. You know we can't do that right now because we can't see around the structure. You have to have three or four guards just guarding that structure so um that's you know this is the staff favorite option 3
Well, I almost defer to staff a little bit because I feel like as long as there's just something kids make the best out of it and you just have fun if they're going to play with. So again, if that's something that staff or, you know, you guys can figure out how do we even get there? That's something I'd be curious about. If I had it my way, I think we'd look at creative funding solutions. We'd be looking at grant opportunities obviously in private funders. If there was a certain amount of money that the city could figure out well, we can't afford We can barely afford option one, but maybe if we found a partner and they want to invest in the community it would that be an option? And that's something I'd love to learn too.
I do know that there are some outside funders that are looking for ways to give back. Some of them have even paid for swim lessons six seven years ago before COVID And so they're looking for ways to get involved again. So, again, I appreciate you guys bringing this back. For me, the reason I want us to address it sooner than later is it is one of the greatest features that we have here in Lompoc. It is something that we should be extremely proud of. It's not something that every city has and for it to fall into disrepair or just let's just keep taking things away. It takes away the luster and the joy that I see when kids go and have a good time.
I love this idea, but I think the devil's in figuring out how to pay for it. So I guess that's the deeper discussion. Thank you
2:14 – 2:2214 turns
Question I mean, in answer for Council Member Ball, previous plaster job actually was from money that was set aside by the previous councils. So it was recovered that way. I think it was leftover bond funding that we had. That's correct. They realized they thought they'd done some damage when they didn't fill a pool fast enough and so they felt they had to come back with plaster, so the money actually was set aside.
The question I had that I stated before is if you looked into an epoxy coat on the pool, being as Lompoc's water is so caustic, so to say. Epoxy coatings can go 30-40 years and they're resistant to that. They cost a little bit more. I'd made that suggestion back before when we, as it turned out, staff had already entered into a contract without council's approval the last time. If you remember that city manager? They drained the pool and yeah, it was a hot pickle so you might look at something like that because it can be longer especially with the water that we have down there A question is, as far as there's no way we can repair the item in there? There was something that you can't touch it I've heard.
It's irreparable at this point. The Whitewater company who were the original installers won't touch it they will only pull it out and replace it and the other companies that we're working on quotes with won't touch another person's work and they won't touch it in such a state of disrepair.
We've got welders in our valley that touch things You know, put rockets up into space in a very caustic environment. I mean, I would be interested to see if somebody's going to go out and... This thing should have been made out of stainless steel. It should not have been... What was somebody thinking? I saw a couple of the lift chairs. You got the one by the big slide right there that's...
I mean it's rusting apart. That should've been a stainless steel item too. You know, it just...I don't understand why it was purchased I get it. It was a little cheaper, but now you're having to replace it. Is there a way that we can look in City Manager to see if we can get some of our High quality welders that can, you know... These guys do phenomenal things out here on the coast.
I mean, I really appreciate the presentation and knowing what's going on. I think there is some research that I need to do with Bob Cross, my finance person where we can recount this money. How can we navigate through this and make sure we're still gonna keep the pool open and have a nice asset that we can utilize for the community? Go ahead. The full 3 million they're asking for today.
Yeah,
3.5 for everything today so we gotta pull something back or are we gonna do it in a time frame where we can come up with that resource?
And I would look at about an epoxy coating on there that you can... With the water that we have there if every 8 to 10 years and that cost is only going to go up next time is going to be like a $2 million project and we get to get to a point that we don't have the funds to do this and that's money that goes
We're at a good point. I know it's July 30th and we had some really good numbers as far as CalPERS and all that stuff. I know I'm trying to always look ahead, but give me a chance to sit down with finance and see how we are doing with our close and what we're going to look like and how much resources
we may have
available.
Yeah, we're at a presentation right now. We're not at direction anyways and I do appreciate... When I found out it was down, I'm like hey fill us
in what's going on? To the epoxy comment there are other options for rather than plaster There's thermoplastic and other aquatic options that are out there That may be worth taking a look into Plaster is just the most common and the most used in The most pools
Maybe we can find one of these guys wants to put their sticker on it or something you know I think we need to take this up a level.
13, which I'd love to have a skate park. So on 13 we're saying we're going to go spend $1.5 million and in the staff report there's no indication of what that means we're not doing because none of that was budgeted here. I'm guessing if we go look, we won't see any of this budgeted I think we need to look at the CIP at a top level and say, what is it that we want to do? Are we going to do a soccer field?
Are we going to do this? Are you going to do a skate park? All of these are big bucks we're talking about here. Two million dollars here, a million and a half on 13, God knows what the soccer fields would cost. We don't have that money. And this piecemeal, well we're going to fund medical for everybody. Great that's what we needed to do. We're going to fund a pool. We're going to fund a skate park. That skate park grew by 50%.
We need to sit down and look at the top level I think personally. and see what our actual money is and what our CIPs in the parks are, because this is another park. And see what we can realistically do. We just can't do it all. I don't see where the money's coming from. If we approve 13 today, I think it wipes out the Quimby and takes more than a third of what we're saying is, I think in the CIP. It's not in the Park Impact. It' s not in the latest report I have but somebody says we've had more money come in You know, we have money in an expense account that we're going to take out. That was money that's already been said it's going to be on the park expansion but we're gonna flip it over and put it on the skate park and never address what that does to the park expansion, the riverbed park expansion so I'm really nervous.
I love this, I love the skatepark, I love the soccer fields but Guys, we can't just keep piecemealing this. I really think we've got to get an overall picture and see you know this is the classic we're going to build a skate park we can't maintain and we can maintain this and we have soccer fields with gopher holes but we are going to build something more. So I don't mean to sound so passionate on this, but this just seems like we're just throwing darts and not looking at the big picture.
So your presentation is wonderful. My great-granddaughter had a party at the pool. You guys do a fabulous job. So it's no reflection on this, and it's no reflection on the skate park. It's just a reflection on a financial responsibility to look at the big picture so we don't piecemeal this and then wonder why we can't do what we want to do. That's my comment on this.
2:22 – 2:3010 turns
So obviously we'll talk about item 13 a little bit later. I guess my, you know, I'll talk about obviously the park is expanding in terms of its footprint and how fortunate are we that Prop 68 has given us three-and-a-half million dollars towards that. You make good point there's overages, there's extra costs those should be justified. We should see if that our priority or not but we don't have too many options on the college part because we did get help for that Um, we don't necessarily have the help for the pool. We don't have a plan for soccer fields. I think you make a good point with all of those things.
But I guess my defense about the pool is that it's something we've already incorporated as a piece of the vision of what Lompoc is, what it offers its people, what it offers its families. We've already made that distinction that we've said let's put money that way versus that way so we've already done it and we're talking about fixing something and maintaining something.
Obviously maybe if times were better we'd have put money aside and it would already be paid for But we can't just say, well let's not prioritize that. We already prioritize this. This is a main feature. This is a great amenity for the city. So basic maintenance absolutely plaster, epoxy I think those are great discussions if we can get something that lasts 30 years versus 10 years and it's a little bit more expensive but saves us money down the road all of the above. I think that's great.
But this is not a case of this versus the soccer fields for me. We've already made this investment. We already created this opportunity for our community to have excitement and joy and something to do, it just needs to be fixed. So I'm very excited to hear from the city maybe things pan out a little bit better. Maybe we have some critical choices to make but we have to stay focused on this. We already made this a priority years ago. It takes maintenance so does our car. You gotta put money aside and if you don't, you gotta figure out how to make it work or you're not getting anywhere.
This is vital to our city. I'm so excited to hear how we're gonna pay for it
All right, it's not listed as a public comment item. We're not taking any action. It's just to receive and file correct? City Manager you've heard, got
your questions so... I'll save you guys from doing the council request we'll bring it back in a couple months and have another discussion on possible financing and possible options of refurbishing. I agree with everybody what you guys are saying up there and then I have a lot other concerns too about It's a big picture thing. We have a lot to look at and make decisions.
options that we research and find. Thank you, Hannah, for this great report and looking at our options and giving us what we're looking at so we didn't... I know Mario keeps telling me, he's like, Mario will you stop already? We've got so much money, Mario!
Last quick question, should we get to the place where we figure out how to pay for the pre-plaster or epoxy? What's the time estimate on what if we did the whole thing at once that's going to take some time during the pools do the work let it dry. Is that months of closure is that weeks of closure?
It would probably be about three months. What we could do we have two closures every year for maintenance and upkeep where we do usually drain the pool so we would We would probably shoot for the winter closure. It's during the holidays, and then January and February are our slowest months at the Aquatic Center. We start ramping back up in March with swim lessons and all of that so it would hopefully happen in the winter months.
Thank you for saying that. If there's any way that, again we have so many questions to answer but if there was any way to time this so that again in the middle of summer when it did start to get warm and families were looking for that one thing to do it would really be awful for that to be closed during our most exciting and warmest months. Correct. But again let's find the money first and we'll go from there sounds like thank you.
Oral communications, three minutes. Anybody on internet or phone?
No communications via Teams or phone.
Hello. Good evening Mayor and Council Members. I support economic development, but only when it truly strengthens our community. Right now we have two major projects being presented as opportunities for Lompoc's future. The proposed Chick-fil-A on 8th Street and the proposed Space Base California by Pale Blue Dot Ventures. While there are very different projects, they raise the same fundamental question.
How do they benefit Lompoc today and at what cost? For years the city has invested significant staff time and public resources into the Pale Blue Dot proposal since it was first introduced in 2019. The project has received multiple extensions because financing has not yet been secured. And construction still has not begun. We continue hearing promises of tourism, jobs and tax revenue but these remain projections, not realized economic benefits.
Meanwhile the public has seen years of delays with no return on that investment. Now we're being asked to believe another set of economic promises with a Chick-fil-A, but we should look at what has happened in other communities before assuming those promises will become reality here. On Upper State Street in Santa Barbara the Chick-fil-A location has become well known for creating severe traffic congestion long drive through lines and have spilled onto public streets Making it more difficult for customers to reach neighboring businesses, slowing traffic and creating ongoing safety concerns.
When access becomes difficult it is the surrounding local businesses that often pay the price. Those impacts should not be ignored. The question isn't whether Chick-fil-A will be successful, it probably will. The question is whether the project strengthens businesses that are already here or simply redirects spending away from locally owned restaurants and creates barriers for neighboring businesses trying to survive instead of relying on large national chains through revalidized H3 I believe we should first invest in the businesses that have already invested in Lompoc.
These are the family-owned restaurants, shops and small businesses that have stayed through economic downturns and continue serving our community. Imagine what targeted façade improvements, safer pedestrian infrastructure, better streetscapes, business incentives and marketing support could do for H3. Those investments could keep dollars circulating locally, help the businesses that have already demonstrated a long-term commitment to our city.
Economic development isn't just about...
Anybody else?
2:30 – 2:5317 turns
Good evening, Mayor and Councilmen. My name is Shauna Stowell and I am a constituent. Before I address tonight's comments, I want to formally express my concern about what happened at the last council meeting. Regardless of where anyone stands politically, a city council meeting should never be a place where a mother and her minor children leave after being caught in a situation that turned violent against them.
The Council has a responsibility to provide a space where people can participate in their local government without fearing intimidation or violence. So I'd like to ask you directly, what do you believe your responsibility is when meetings become unsafe? What changes are you making to protect members of the public, especially minor children? Democracy is supposed to be loud, it shouldn't be dangerous.
Now onto my comments about the proposed Chick-fil-A. I oppose this project. Lompoc doesn't need another poverty wage fast food chicken church. Families here are already struggling to keep up with the cost of housing, groceries and everyday life. We should be asking how a project raises the standard of living for our community not how quickly we can approve another drive through.
Traffic is another concern. Anyone who has driven past the Chick-fil-A in Santa Barbara has seen the backups. Cars spill into surrounding streets, create congestion and affect neighboring businesses. Why should we intentionally recreate that dead ass in the middle of town? Then there are the values we communicate through the businesses we welcome. Many members of our LGBTQ community continue to associate Chick-fil-A with a history of supporting organizations that are overtly oppressive to LGBTQ rights.
Whether people agree or disagree, those concerns deserve to be taken seriously. Finally I want to address Pale Blue Dot. I have this pamphlet in my hand. I've read it. For something asking the public to have confidence in this project, it says remarkably little about what the project has actually accomplished, where the money has gone or what measurable outcomes the community has received.
That brings me to Mr. Bridge. You serve on the board of Pearl Blue Dot while also participating in decisions connected to city government Help me once again to understand why you believe those dual roles strengthen public confidence, rather than raise legitimate questions about accountability and transparency. Those questions become even more important while serious criminal
charges... I would want to make one clarification. I do not serve on the board of Blue Dot. That may be, but that's not true.
And I believe there has been no monies of the city coffers gone to Pale Blue Dot? We're not subsidizing they are all reimbursed correct? So all the money, is that a yes city?
Yeah.
So the city isn't putting money in to Pale Blue Dot. Good. Anything else? Nobody?
No comment via Teams or phone.
Okay, thank you. Good? We're making sure. All right, closing oral communications. Bring it back to public hearing item 14. You ready? Regarding nuisance abatement of weeds, rubbish, refuse and dirt. Everybody's been waiting for this one all night.
Councilmembers, I'm ready to put this one to bed. Put weed abatement to bed and just let's move on to close it.
Any questions? I can open up the public comment. Anybody for public comment on item number 14? Anybody through internet or cell phone or telephone?
No.
Seeing nobody run for the microphone, we'll close public comment and bring it back. Deliberations? Motions? I'm waiting. What do you got, Council Member Vega? I'll make a motion to adopt. All right. Motion to adopt by Vega, seconded by Ball. Let's go ahead and vote. We might have a record here on this one. And that barely passes 5-0. All right. Cruising to item number 15, it's approval of building and safety division strategic plan to implement and recommendations for the City Council Ad Hoc Committee on city permit procedures and processes.
Michael Lowe, Building and Safety Service Manager.
Fire away! All right, good evening. Michael Lowe, I've been with the city now since January. Just to give you a quick update, the strategic plan before you which we'll have an opportunity to go through and discuss each item consists of three goals, six objectives with 17 specific action items. We tried to identify a target date for completion of each of those action items And to be able to accomplish all this work within the next fiscal year without having to add any additional staff resources.
Moving on to the background and context, the City Council took a vote on October 21st 2025 to establish an ad hoc committee to evaluate permit processes and procedures. This is just a portion of the work of the Ad Hoc Committee, the first part of that committee I will note that there was a bit of delay in getting started with the ad hoc committee. As I mentioned, I didn't start working here until January and our first ad hoc committee meeting was early March. So we did a lot of boots on the ground work reaching out to stakeholders and invited some of them to be or all of them to be here tonight. I see a few in the audience as well. The stakeholder engagement included four meetings with the Ad Hoc Committee and staff, developers roundtable That consisted of approximately 12 participants and then targeted individual interviews with local contractors, major housing developers for active projects that are in the system to get real data and real street data on the experiences of current applicants.
And so as a result we staff put together this strategic plan. Going over the goals now, the three goals. First one is a predictable efficient and data-driven process which we'll get into more specifically but that will address The overall customer service element of the Building and Safety Division. Goal two, which is accountability and how do we reasonably settle disputes during application process as well as active construction? And then goal three is around code enforcement.
The way that I have broken down this presentation is by creating a slide for each objective that has an action item. I'm happy to go through the entire strategic plan all at once, or I'm happy to stop after each objective slide to facilitate a conversation and answer any questions. I'll leave it up to the mayor to decide when to intervene. We'll
see how interesting you get.
Okay, great. The first objective is to implement a data-driven performance management system and so we would do that in the Building Safety Division by establishing standards for customer service which we'll call key performance indicators. This will allow us to report on a regular basis What the outcomes are for the Building and Safety Division. And what I've identified as two priorities, and this is based on stakeholder feedback, is that we would report on plan review timeliness, meaning that currently we have goals in the Building and Safety Division to respond to applications based on the type of project. And so in that process, it's not just the building officials review. It also includes other divisions as well such as public works planning division, sometimes the electric division.
Sometimes it has to be sent out to the county for review and so we would establish a reporting dashboard to show how each division is doing in meeting those goals for timeliness. This would allow the council to understand where the resource deficiencies are, where the bottlenecks are in the process. Be able to allocate funds appropriately. The second objective is actually one that I... Oh sorry! Second action on their first one actually has to do with the review process as a whole One of the things that we heard was that there was a lot of back and forth between staff as well and the applicants. And so, we would establish a goal to approve 85% of the applications after only having to review it two times. This is achievable and a goal that is established in several other jurisdictions throughout the state.
And then the reporting would come in January of each year. At that time we would report on the effectiveness of staff in accomplishing these goals, these key performance indicators and if we continually meet our objectives it could be indication that we need to move onto other areas of improvement to report on But the date of January on an annual basis was picked for strategic purpose so that the council would have this data in hand prior to making decisions about the following year's fiscal, the following year's budget.
We can
move on to the next objective now if there is... Okay. So, the next objective is to create a standardized process This would be internal as well as external and interdepartmental. So we would do this by drawing up standard operating procedures, currently we utilize Tyler Technologies Enterprise Permit Licensing Program to facilitate all of our reviews and we would standardize the way that staff across the various divisions input the information into that process to gain consistency We would also establish a standardized catalog of inspection checklists for common inspection types. The program allows us to put those in so that anyone doing inspections will have that on a tablet in front of them when they're doing it, out in the field actually looking at work.
But then we could also publish that to the community. Staff has already undertaken that initiative to create a catalog specific to the pre-approved ADU program, and so we already anticipate rolling that out with that program I would like to be able to publish for them the guides and the necessary information so they can successfully be a part of the Building Safety Division's efforts as well.
We can
move on to the next objective. And then the last one for this goal is to ensure staff stability and system reliability. Currently in the building and safety division we have one employee per type of position, and one of my management goals for the team over the next year will be cross-training. Part of the cause for delays that I have identified is in when staff is out, there's only one person to fill in which is me.
And right now the level of work that we have is very what I would consider manageable for the staffing levels that we have however If you consider that with four employees, each one works anywhere between 17 to 1800 hours of the year on a 2080 hour year. When you spread that out and look at all the substitutions I would be spending more than half my time filling in for other employees.
Uh... filling in for subordinates. And so this would be to establish a comprehensive list of on-call consultants that allows me to bring in staff when there are shortages. There is also an opportunity to solicit qualifications specifically I would like to start by saying thank you to all of the people who have helped assist our IT department with our permit software. What I would say is we have a really wonderful IT division right now The system has outages and creates delays in our process, and we're simply just waiting on the provider to get back to us.
There are also the same concerns in staffing availability in IT as if This would allow the building and safety division as well as others who operate within this permit technology to have access to a consultant if there is an immediate outage that can't otherwise be addressed by our current IT staff. And then, the last part of that would be to come back to the Council in the near term The first goal.
The second goal has to do with accountability in the process, and this was a reoccurring theme that actually was brought up in every forum, every interview that I had during the stakeholder engagement process. The recommendation is to return to Council with a resolution that would establish a Construction Board of Appeals. Brown Act-covered board that would meet based on the bylaws that are established to settle disputes between applicants and the building official.
This is actually the first jurisdiction of the four that I've worked for that doesn't have a Construction Board of Appeals established, and when we talk about accountability in local government it's not simply about somebody making, doing something wrong or making a mistake. The way that I view Construction Board of Appeals is simply a non-adversarial what is the actual issue that we're experiencing? What is the policy that regulates it and how do we move a project forward without having to go back and forth multiple times?
And so a construction board of appeals is made up of technical experts And they would ensure that the building officials' decisions were consistent with the policy and the intent of the policy. And then, the records that the Construction Board of Appeals establishes or creates would allow for managerial oversight for the building official. The building official's position is Very similar to maybe like a city engineer even in the technical capacity of it.
What I mean by that is, it's very uncommon that the building official supervisor has the same technical understanding of the code and construction that the building official has And so the way that a manager would provide oversight is by reviewing the construction board of appeals outcomes. And so if a building official continually goes to the Board of Appeals and is continually being overturned, it creates that record that the building official is making decisions that are not otherwise approved by the technical experts of the community.
And so that provides the technical oversight, the accountability in the process. And then with that creation of that board providing that oversight would just be a formal application process that would be built into our current permit. It would just kind of seamlessly flow. You get to the point in the process where you disagree on a code interpretation and it can move directly into the appeals process.
Part of that right now, the way that it is set up is the City Council actually functions as the Construction Board of Appeals. The fee for that is just under $2,000 and so part of what we would do is go through and identify, and I believe that's actually in the next goal, so I'll get to that in a second here. We would create a seamless application from Dispute to getting before the board and then return to the council after we've established bylaws with a list of qualified candidates for appointment.
So
moving on to the next objective, is to create a accessible process. And so that is the application for appeal and to come back with a cost recovery fee scheduled to the council. So as I was mentioning, a little bit out of turn, is that the council currently serves as the Board of Appeals. The fee is just less than $2,000 and currently To create a presentation for the council to facilitate that process would take an immense amount of staff time, whereas it's my belief that we could bring a model back to the council to consider with a scalable fee that would allow the building official to move a little more fluidly with a independent body.
Whereas waiting for a council meeting to come up to hear appeal could also cause additional delays. And so with that, we would also work with the city attorney to establish standard operating procedure to ensure that whatever staff is facilitating that process it's done so in accordance with the Brown Act. And then the final objective is specific to the code enforcement.
This came up with current developers on a couple occasions, particularly around work without permits. But I've also heard it from the community about what code enforcement priorities are. There are also other considerations about cost recovery. And so part of the strategic plan would be for me to come back with a presentation to the council on the topic of code enforcement, to present data on what the community is reporting. The types of concerns, the types of cases that we have pursued over the prior year and to present to the council recommendation for priorities of that division.
And so the goal would be to eliminate the claims that code enforcement is ineffective, that code enforcement is being used, weaponized against other members of the community and to really facilitate a community discussion about how these resources should be delegated, how these resources should be prioritized and what issues are we actually needing to focus on.
So that is the extent of the strategic plan based on the ad hoc committee. The recommendation from staff is to approve it, at the same time there are several things in the strategic plan that reflect more of a commitment on staff's part to execute these processes which are more managerial and then there are some items in the strategic plan that are also I'm happy to answer any questions that you may have.
2:53 – 3:0615 turns
Gosh, I need to wear earplugs. So first of all, I think that this is a great approach. We should have efficiencies, better systems, processes, et cetera. It makes me wonder what we've had up until now. That's an interesting question but I get that. Let's talk about a couple of things. You mentioned terms like resource deficiency or cost recovery, things of that nature.
If we're going to have consultants, and I know we have quite a bit of consultants and we're talking about hey let's get consultants on put them on call so we can get through this more quickly. I'm wondering is there um through all this is there a discussion for us to recognize? Hey in certain contexts would it not have been better for us to invest in staff To accommodate some of the timeliness of your goals versus just having consultants on call. Consultants don't work for free, they might be comparable but is there a scenario where we're just using consultants all the time and it's actually maybe inflating costs?
But we're getting something done more quickly. You kind of understand where I'm coming from, should we invest just make sure consultants help us get everything done tomorrow? Hopefully they understand our intent and what our goals are as a city or is there an argument perhaps for standing up additional staff to gain efficiencies in some of these?
Yeah, you know what let me jump in here real fast this was an ad hoc driven thing it was guided by the building official but The ad hoc is basically what put this together. We didn't go in and analyze Manning, these were recommendations the ad hoc made. I don't think it's right we put the building official on the spot by going should we hire more people? We're working with what we got. We're in planning now. These were the things we took from building not trying to buff the department or anything else. The contingency is here This is an opportunity for the Council to pay for the consultant if they're called out. So please don't be directing everything at Mike. This was done by Council Member Bridge and myself, facilitated So let's don't go really hard on staff on what Council has done.
So as
far as I know, I was elected by a group of citizens here for me to ask the questions. I felt relevant. I appreciate
it. Well good. You can show up Thursday at 1300 and be the third member of the ad hoc.
This is my time to ask my questions.
Well good. Thank you. And I'm just wondering what... Okay. Well, I'm just giving you a little guidance on how ad hocs work.
I appreciate the guidance that I did not ask for. Thank you. I appreciate that. Any other interruptions you'd like to make? I'm not putting this on you, it has been a constant issue with our city complaining that we can't get stuff done quick enough. I understand this goal to gain efficiencies. You're now our building official. It is completely legitimate for a council member to request a little bit of guidance from a person in charge of a department to help us understand whether we can thread this needle just by getting consultants And not staff. For me, this is a big picture issue and not just a couple of tweaks that are happening here. I have additional questions that will become more relevant, I'm sure. But again, I direct that question at you.
Is from your time here, you've only been here for a few months. You've asked a lot of questions. You've seen inefficiencies. You're asking for us to demand that other departments do more efficient, let's all get on the same page. But I generally have this question about overusing consultants as a means to get the job done, when sometimes I wonder is it because we're understaffed at our city and that's why we have these inefficiencies.
Sure. I can give you some practical examples that we're using consultants for locally, as well as some just industry-related standards around consultants. It's typical that a building and safety division's budget, about a quarter of their budget is allocated for consultants. And that's just because there are fluctuations in the needs of the development. There's just a lot of factors that affect when construction comes and goes through a community.
Specifically, right now we're really exploring different ways to utilize consultants for example Williams Homes out at River Terrace has a consultant that they have on site throughout the entire day so that they can have an inspection whenever they want And that is really a progressive model. It's something that's pretty unique, it's very aggressive to make sure I want to What the policy recommendation or I should say, the approach that I'm proposing is not to sideline future staff or even to disparage future growth of the division. It's to be prepared for an influx of permits that may or may not come and to simply have them on call so that if we need to bring people in, we can do so quickly.
In the event, when it comes to funding all of the costs associated with enforcement is always pushed back onto the developer. And so it is important that as a building official, as a council we consider whether or not it would be more expensive because that ultimately gets pushed on to the end user, the homeowner, the business owner who's doing the project and so I,
so let me stop you. So you're saying there's a situation where we as a city versus another city could say hey, we've got consultants and we can get your project done much more quickly now but it might be more expensive than that other city that depended upon internal staff that took two or four extra weeks? Is that a scenario you could imagine?
Yeah, faster is typically going to always be more expensive. I appreciate
that. Mayor, if I could? I think another thing to look at as we look back in history what happened at the city is we were building homes and hospitals and we're going gangbusters and we had four or five building inspectors And 07, 08 we saw a big collapse. Everything just stopped but we still had those staff members so we laid off a lot of people. We went to almost 100% contract and you're seeing all the failures that have happened from us not having a smaller staff that we can flex it as we need it and as the market gets smaller then we can go back to just a minimal staff. So I like the approach that he's talking about.
Like I said something that we need to learn from what happened in 09
Certainly, and I appreciate that. And I'm not at all suggesting that we should be against consultants. I just don't want us to be in a situation where nothing ever changed. The reason that we're even standing up here and talking about this is because there has been inefficiencies. You do make a good point, we did lay off a lot of staff. We haven't had the same staff to do some of the work. The complaints have been that we don't get stuff done quickly enough but you're telling me that we have been using consultants quite regularly so again humor me a little bit I'm just saying I want to know like if our job is to get more efficiency Is that a question of like, hey let's get higher trained better trained staff. And this also applies to other departments you're trying to create an agreement with multiple departments in here streets electrical lots of moving parts and they are going to have to figure out how to deliver On a certain timeline that you're recommending.
So this is where I just get into, okay well how is that all going to come together? And are we just consulting our way through this and whoever a big Williams home they have the money they can pay for the consultant what about the small business that doesn't understand the process gets three or four different answers from different departments are we also gaining efficiencies in that process too and that's where
Yeah, it's a really I appreciate the conversation. So the way that I would see this evolving over time is that prior to actually bringing on another full-time staff we're first going to invest in development of our current staff cross training make sure that You know, we're busy 100% of the time before we look out to bringing on some long-term liability. And I don't like to talk about people as long term liabilities but the reality is the costs are there and so in order In order for that to be done responsibly, we should see as a community sustained ongoing development for a certain amount of time that we can rely upon and we would use consultants to get us up to that point before we actually bring on another full-time employee. And so that would be an analysis of the revenues that are being generated, as well as the projections for the work that we anticipate in the community.
Given what we know about what is coming out at Vandenberg, what's been reported for the job market, what the potential is for development in the community, I'm not sure that there will be a need for additional full-time staff. And that's just based on the current general plan, which is roughly about 2,000 units. Currently we have about 350 units in production.
And so I don't know exactly where we are today in terms of whether that sustained level of development is going to come to that point. But if it does, we need the consultants to first get us to that level before a full-time employee would be brought on. The other thing is there are Really state of the art emerging technologies that are coming into this industry, that are making us more efficient really every day. And I'd be happy to share examples even with some of the things that we're doing now.
And so as we get better at what we're doing, as we provide better customer service, as we can get information out to applicants more quickly I think that we'll start to see some of the concerns about the lack of expediency, the lack of efficiency kind of fade away.
I think those are all great successes. I'm not against that, I just know that we're trying to tweak the language here and again, I appreciate the work that you guys have put into that. I don't question that desire to make this more efficient but I do know sometimes the devil's in the details and good intentions come with a lot of buy-in throughout this whole city especially internally so good luck on threading that needle. I know it's gonna be difficult. Last question talk to me about the community board
Construction Board of Appeals.
3:06 – 3:1112 turns
Find a loophole and well, let's go talk to the appeals board because they'll let us do so-and-so. How do we keep that as an independent board? How does that work in other
cities? Well, the members of the board would be appointed by the council, so they would be held accountable to you. So
the board would be appointed by the city council?
Yes. Okay, thank you. And then just another note on that. The Board of Appeals hears disputes between interpretations of the code, but the code explicitly states that the Board of Appeals does not have the right to waive the code. And so everything would be transparent and reported in open sessions, so you know that's where that other level of accountability comes from is just in the public reporting.
In decades past we had something similar to In Lompoc. So it's not abnormal to do this? Oh, I don't think
it's abnormal to do this. I just wonder why we need to have this board of folks kind of go over some of these details when you yourself just said if it's in the code it's pretty clear there are no exceptions.
Yeah, so going back to the stakeholder engagement. One of the terms that I actually heard frequently was disputes tend to turn into contests of personality between applicants and the staff. My response to that walking into this environment as an outsider is, well what does the code say in these instances? In order for staff to settle disputes we have to get to the point where we're documenting and recording a determination on Interpretation.
responses to the applicant so that we actually have something to discuss, to appeal, to dispute. And so it's not by itself the Board of Appeals that would make a difference in this. It's the entire process with the efficient response moving into the Board of Appeals where the disputes could be settled and so it's an entire building department process.
Okay, those are all great answers. I'm not angry at you, I'm not angry at the system. I have just heard for years that we're inefficient and we need to do better. I want to make sure from your professional viewpoint that this is... You've thought about some of these contingencies and some of the politics that you shouldn't have to play with. I understand that. I just wanted
to hear your thoughts on that. Thank you. And I appreciate all the questions truly. I actually love talking about this policy so When we met with the developer roundtable, we had about a dozen people there and this was actually the main topic of conversation throughout the hour-and-a-half that we met with the developers. We talked about the timeliness and whether it was reasonable to wait on scheduling a Board of Appeals, what that timeline would look like. And what we heard from the group was for inspections they don't want to wait a month to go to a Board of Appeals. They want to have the building official call a meeting within 70 to 96 hours to get something settled. But during the application process, the designers that were in the room said well no we could wait a couple of weeks and be able to get this you know one dispute settled before we get a permit issued.
And so those uh that information is getting like we're collecting that information with our stakeholder engagement and if we get approval to bring back a resolution to establish that, we can go in much deeper to that discussion what it looks like. You would have bylaws to review and consider and it would function very similar to how our current planning commission functions.
Awesome those are all great answers and I really appreciate you taking the time to walk me through it. Yeah no problem thank you
Let me just say, first of all since you've come on board here. I haven't had somebody come to me complaining about it and needing to go to the city manager or city attorney which has been kind of the level of appeals that we had to go through before so good job. I don't think your Board of Appeals with you around, we would have much of a going through I've heard nothing but good news with you being here so I don't know what the attack was on landlords. I don't know what the problem is with landlords being involved in the process, but thank goodness we have them.
Yeah, it's a good conversation to come up because if there is somebody on the Board of Appeals that lives or owns property that's within a certain proximity Thank you.
3:11 – 3:188 turns
I just had a couple things I wanted to say. One question, would it be fair to say that the ad hoc committee identified areas of concerns and then you went off and validated whether those were staff concerns or process concerns or code concerns? That you went out and validated whatever we happened to bring as our experience indicated might be a source of friction?
I think it'd be fair to say that the ad hoc committee raised very legitimate concerns and as a result, the strategic plan is an effort to address those concerns.
Okay. And the second thing which may sound charged, I don't mean it to be charged because I agree with Mayor Mosby since you've been on board The vibes in the community have been much more positive. But one of the goals of the ADCOC committee, and I think you're in support of that goal is that these processes should be person independent. That whether Mike happens to be here which we all love or it's Billy Bob Joe Who perhaps we don't all love. The processes are in place, the reporting's in place and it's our goal to establish those as independent of any individual building official. I think that's a fair assessment as well right?
Yes and if I might add very necessary considering the current staffing levels as well as the proposal to utilize consultants who would be very inconsistent. And so that's, within the strategic plan you see that through the standard operating procedures, the standardized checklist and I think what I want to say about that is it's not meant to create a super rigid system.
There's always discretion in alternative pathways to facilitate the intent of the code but just create that standardized process where A new person coming on board isn't left just trying to figure out what were we doing before.
So I wanted finally to thank you for the work you did and the staff support you had. I think we have another component coming up with Greg to kind of attack the sister area planning, but you did an excellent job and thank you.
Yeah, I appreciate that. And I would just say that I worked very closely with our staff and it's wonderful to hear that and have my name on the report but of course their support has been very instrumental as well.
Let me get this open to public comment. I know people have been waiting here a while for you and I appreciate you guys because I'm sure you guys are landlords who've got to get up early in the morning back to work so I appreciate you guys hanging out to give your two bits. So with that we're going to open it up to public comment.
Item number 15. Mayor Mosby, Councilmembers, my name is Joe Hossel. I've been a builder in North County here for the last 27 years. I've done everything from remodels, custom homes, production homes. I just want to express my support for the strategic plan and just really thank Mike for the action he's taken in the short tenure you've had here so far. I have never met somebody that wanted a path to yes and who understood velocity is actually like king out there, not in just production building but for remodelers and custom home or addition guys.
For some context my business has 10 people in it. I am a going concern whether or not a building is coming out of the ground. In fact we spend most of our time planning that building that's coming out of the ground We don't, I mean there's like no money in planning the building coming out of the ground for the general contractor. It is like hanging on for dear life until that darn building permit comes in.
So imagine the other going concerns in the community say I'm a grocery store or like Home Depot if I'm waiting for a permit because somebody's on vacation or just took four and a half months to get my first round check on some grading plans on a project we're working on right now So you go up to this going concern, and you go put a chain on their door. Lock it up tight. Say it's Aldi's.
And you say hey, you're still in plan check. I have to shut you down. Well you said it was gonna be six weeks? It's been like 12. I know we're super busy! And I'm going on vacation. And you have to say, I know but we're just short staffed. You're just gonna have to wait. We might open your business back up next month maybe if we're not busy and if I'm back from vacation.
So that's what it's like for a builder to wait for the building permit. Your business is locked as shut closed until that permit is issued and we want it to be safe. Want that thing to be plan checked where it needs to be planned checked But speed is actually like lifeblood. And yeah, would it be if it was a little bit more expensive to actually get the permit on time?
Budget matters but getting it done and getting it built matters more. We did have an amazing experience while the housing element was being approved We got a rezone in like, a month. It was awesome. Never before. Housing is super important. It was really laser-focused super important and we got that permission super fast. So that's just context. Mike's the first building official I've ever known.
3:18 – 3:233 turns
Dang! We're going to have to chain him down or something. We've got to keep him here. I got excited back here too, it sounds like.
Yes, so Joe man, I feel every word that you're saying amazing Sorry, is that better? Can you hear me good evening mirror Mayor City Council members city staff and members of the public Thank you for the opportunity to speak here this evening Especially on a topic. That's near and dear to my heart My name is Ted Lawton And I'm here this evening discuss one of the greatest challenges we're facing here in California in our local communities It's no surprise it's it's a production of attainable housing For working families, for seniors, for veterans, for essential workers and even for our unhoused neighbors. I have a passion for attainable housing and for creating innovative housing solutions at all spectrums of the housing ladder. For example turning housing vouchers into equity, providing ownership opportunity for minimum at 35% of current minimum wage, creating ownership opportunities at or below current market rents Utilizing nonprofit public and private partnerships, creating housing wheels, flywheels, community land trusts, private housing vouchers, HCD approved manufactured housing.
There are a lot of innovative solutions however This is to Joe's point and thank you Mr. Lowe for your strategic plan. Even with the most recent legislature changes and new housing laws like SB 35, SB 684, SB 4, ADU legislation all of things that we are currently using to streamline the intended to reduce barriers and accelerate housing production by the way of which we are currently using in all shapes and fashion, we continue to face lengthy delays during the entitlement permitting and planning review process, which we call the kink in the hose.
Currently our private non-profit collaboration has fully designed and engineered factory built HCD approved modular housing units that are complete, ready for occupancy yet many of them hundreds. remain sitting in storage yards across the state of California, waiting for permits or engineering reviews or utility approvals or biological clearances or cultural studies or some kind of administrative action.
Every month these homes sit idle. Construction costs rise. This is to Joe's point. Construction costs rise. Financing costs rise. Insurance expenses grow. Ultimately these costs are borne by both the housing providers and by the families who need An affordable housing unit in Santa Barbara County now is easily north of $800,000. Neither is that sustainable nor affordable by any measure of the imagination.
Let's see here. The housing crisis cannot be solved if we're waiting, if our homes are waiting in storage instead of serving people I believe we all share in the same goal driving a delivering safe high-quality housing while protecting the public and our community. The question is how do we modernize the permitting and entitlement process to match the urgency of our crisis? I respectfully would encourage the city to consider and explore some potential solutions For example, project self-certification, integrated project delivery, third party plan review and inspection programs which I think you're currently using some of that. Even AI assisted plan check review tools all of which could be very beneficial in streamlining the process Our housing providers are ready to build, manufacturers are ready to produce.
Capital is available. There's a billion dollar fund right now that wants to give money to our projects but without us solving the kink in the hose we're at a standstill Like throwing more money at this isn't going to make it go faster. We need to work together in partnership to find ways, innovative ways, to help the permitting and entitlement process. I appreciate the dedication of this city staff. I recognize the tremendous workload that everyone carries. My comments are not meant as criticism, they are an invitation to partner in modernizing and reviewing the process so that Lompoc can become a leader in housing production for the Central Coast and even for the rest of the state.
I thank you for your service, City Council members and city staff. I thank you for your leadership. I thank you for a commitment to creating more housing opportunities for your local community. And I love to see that you are thinking in these terms. That's why I'm bringing this up is there are some more opportunities that you may want to consider as you put together this advisory board or this reviewer ad hoc committee I could go on and on. I wish I had more time, but I appreciate it. Thank you very much.
Anybody
else?
3:24 – 3:297 turns
Okay Good evening Council I am absolutely thrilled with what has happened here in Lompoc recently, with a new building official who seems to be builder friendly. What I've been told this council is in past but I've been denied several times here it Took me five years to get a permit here in Lompoc for a simple duplex that had already been approved prior. I built the same building again.
Most of you might remember me coming up here and all the problems that I have, so now I feel that we're on the right track for builder friendly and that's what we need here in Lompoc. I thank you very, very much.
Mr. Holloway, what are you doing out so late?
Bob Holloway from Lompoc and I'm going to tell you a little story here. In the 70s, I was on the committee. I was appointed by the City Council and we had some meetings. We did some stuff but we had authority over everybody And so the new city administrator, when he came in, he didn't like that. So he cut us off and we fired us all. I've been dealing with the City Building Department since 1966.
As of today, we finally got on the right track. Mike's really done a good job and I just want to say that you know when the ad hoc committee is or the people are going to be appointed to this they're not going to be involved Nobody's involved with the city. They're all gentlemen, they're contractors. When I was on there we had an electric contractor, a plumbing contractor, a building contractor and two people just to come to the meetings.
And we probably had about eight meetings and we did some pretty good stuff so right now Like the gentleman said, in 14 days you can get it done. And before we used to have to wait till you guys decided what was going on. So thank you.
Anybody else?
Mr. Mayor, Councilman, I'm not going to repeat anything we've all said or they've said already it's pretty consistent what I will touch on as being part of Williams Homes and River Terrace without Mike the project was stuck in the mud there's no doubt about that it took quite the lift to get the project up and going You touched on, you know, what's the cost relative to consultants out using outside consultants. Does the developer burden that cost? Yes. Time is money.
We will absorb costs to expedite. We talked about the market. Raw materials constantly fluctuate. The faster we can build, the better we can provide the community. The builders are more successful. At the end of the day, the community becomes more successful. So what Mike has brought to the table and his strategic planning I would highly encourage to consider and move forward with this. I think Lompoc has a great opportunity, building from North County all the way down into Lompoc area.
I think Lompoc has a fantastic future ahead of itself with obtainable housing. We can't do this in any other jurisdiction or area for land values and or home values here. I encourage you guys to consider. Thank you.
How about our impact fees? What do you have to
say about those? Fantastic, and again, thank you very much on that. It was an absolute benefit to the project. The gentleman said it took five years to get a permit. You know what that did? That offset the burden and impacts we carried. To give you guys an idea, it took us a year-and-a-half to get stock plant sets approved It took us two years to get through landscape plans approved. So again, it's greatly appreciated but that really offset the impacts that we carried to finally get the project going and the project is performing very well.
The community has taken it and seems to be very receptive of it so we thank you all.
3:29 – 3:4523 turns
Anybody else have a public comment on this item? Phones, internet?
No public comment via Teams or phone.
Okay, seeing nobody else rise we'll close. Close public comment and bring it back to Council. What do you guys want? Ad-hockers? Motions, questions, deliberations? Council Member Starbuck.
I'll go ahead and move that we accept staff recommendations for the building aspect
Councilmember Vega beat you already?
No, he bypassed me. That's what he did. Now you're up!
He was on that. You just got the motion button faster.
Thank you man. I'll let you speak. Go ahead. I'll make the motion that we approve the building safety strategic plan
there. Very good. It's a motion by Vega and seconded by Bridges. Go ahead and vote. You got to vote no on this one just because. Just gotta, you know, just gotta. That passes 5-0. Yay! Normally I don't let people clap but I mean the other group clapped and yelled at us and everything else so why not? Let's have something good. Thank you guys for what you do The year before last, Lompoc built two homes. This last year we built zero and you got 350 and possibly another 150 coming down the pipe so we're going to sleep for 500 homes so it's amazing when you have landlords up here businessmen pushing stuff forward I think you guys on the other side.
You guys want to take a half hour break? Just kidding. Are you okay, Council? You good? Push through? All right come on down new business item number 16 status update on the Bodger Meadows project review and comment on letters submitted by the city to the county's notice of preparation of an environmental impact report for the project only 70 years in
Good morning, good
evening.
Almost slipped and said good morning. Laurie Tamora, contract planner, consultant. Yeah! I'm here tonight to present the status of the Badger Meadows project. Hey guys.
Easy easy Bridge we're okay they're leaving
So what we're working on right now is a review of the conceptual letters that different departments provided. And we have forwarded those letters onto the applicant as well as to the county, as they had started the notice of preparation for the environmental impact report for the Badger Meadows project. If you could move... Just to refresh your memory, the project is located on approximately 45 acres.
The other 40 acres of the Badger Meadows property will be retained in agriculture although there are some infrastructure improvements on that property including several basins as well as some additional infrastructure. Next slide. The project involves 200 single-family lots and 140 apartment units, and obviously open space of other amenities within the project.
Main access is coming off of Olive and the other access point is coming off of V. The city back in May of 24 provided a letter which was filed with the original application that indicated that the Badger Meadows project would be able to have service either through an outside user's agreement or ultimately annexation of the property. So that has been sort of the guiding direction for this project going through the permit review process with the County of Santa Barbara.
There have been a number of submittals from the applicant to the county, the city has been participating in the review of the different iterations of the project Ultimately, we asked that we have an official pre-application review which occurred. The applicant filed that in January of this year. We had initial meeting with the applicant and the landowner and their representatives in February of 26th.
And we prepared our comment letters which were part of the package that you had in your materials. The county notified us and the public that the notice of preparation was being circulated to initiate the environmental review process. Back in May of 26, we provided our comments to the county in June 12th of 26 With the conversation with the county planners that we were going to be taking this package of materials to the City Council, to brief them on where the project was at as well as opportunity to ask any questions or provide any further recommendations on the project to the county as part of the environmental review process.
Next slide. We did provide letters from the Planning Division, Public Works Memo, Utilities, Fire Department and Solid Waste. And so all of those comments were again forwarded as part of the NOP. The city requested a number of things that we still have restated in multiple letters to the county, as well as to the applicant. And the key points are this project, in order to obtain service needs to be annexed to the city.
The services including water, sewer, electrical as well as frontage improvements and infrastructure to city standards. Access to the site we are continuing to request that they also provide an access point out to Ocean Avenue There's a lot of concern raised by the school and community that having an access, one of the main accesses on Olive conflicts with the school activities that are happening right across the street.
Frontage improvements are very important both on Ocean, Olive and V particularly for the visibility of the landscaping and trail system sidewalks and that frontage infrastructure that we'd like to see happen on this site. It's very important that the interior roads and the common areas be private and maintained by an HOA. There is no indication currently on the plans that that is part of the proposal, and we restated that in our letters.
There is a concern about the way the site is designed for their basin and drainage of the site. It's an engineering issue that still needs to be worked out but during this last submittal, the drainage system was redesigned and it even illustrated more that this is a concern for how Drainage is going to be handled for this project and the future 40 acres as development extends on to Badger Road.
We also, as indicated in the last bullet point, would like to have an indication of how the remainder portion of Badger Meadows property would be developed because all of this infrastructure and design and everything else We're only seeing half of the story, so we raised that concern in our letters. So as I noted, we did submit these letters to the county for the notice of preparation. The city of Lompoc is a responsible agency.
So we are at the table with the county. We're also at the table with LAFCO. Because this environmental document will be used for subsequent decisions, both at the county level for the SB 330 project. It'll be also used as the environmental document for the ultimate decisions for pre-zoning and annexation. We are asking for a number of things to be We would love to hear from you any questions or concerns that you have that if we missed anything, that should be added to these letters.
The applicant is here and would like to make a presentation in addressing any concerns and comments that you might have. So I'm available for any questions and then we can turn it over to the applicant.
I've got a question for you, so of the basin. I think one of the logical aspects if you have a basin that's on the property to the west and if there's dual jurisdictional meaning if the basins in the county and the developments It becomes a conflict when, let's say for weed abatement or other levels of mitigation with the basin. So I think just for areas of logic and not the crystal ball thinking is something else but there is a logic that this basin as part of the project should also be annexed in.
I think there's a legitimate argument that goes along with that. Can you imagine the conflicts with the county if you've got a basin in the county and a development, and the county says it's now reindeer habitat or Lompoc grasshopper habitat or Pilead bat or unarmored three-spined sticklebacks or whatever they want to dream up? Which we know they do. They've got a lot of good fantasies, but if it's out of our jurisdiction control it's a conflict with the housing project so my recommendation is that it definitely gets looked at because it's part of the connection I do understand there's a lot of fill that you're wanting to move across.
However, there's a lot of material that's out there right now that people are needing to move. Maybe you guys want to line up to get that? I know Caltrans, I can give you some numbers but I think you guys need 150,000 yards of material or something. But if you were set up for it, I'd probably turn 30 or 40,000 yards down recently in my past so... It might help with your project as well.
And maybe you make sure that in the EIR, that you have the ability to import material. And if you get a import permit or stockpile permit at least can help you get to that level of something. I don't think that was in either... Everybody's looking about hogging out the back to try to level out the front. I do question the driveway on and understanding why You say Ocean Avenue, but Caltrans.
And you want to put a driveway onto Caltrans property? You might be five-to-ten year wait or longer.
If we could go back to the... if I can respond. Yeah sure, fire away. Could we go back to the site plan please on the... Thank you. On this plan right where you see the basin in CalTRAN's right-of-way ends just on the east side of that basin. So there is a portion of this particular site plan that is county road system, which would be annexed into the city and they could take access onto Olive.
On Highway 246? Eventually you're going to be on Highway 246. And Caltrans is going to want a traffic study when you impose a burden on the highway.
What I'm saying is Caltrans ends on the east side of that basin so they could get a driveway to...
Yeah, but you are going to be accessing...
Sure.
Yeah. I had to do things that went to another road that then led to a highway and you still have to do the study for the highway even though I was half mile away. So it does trigger conflicts
I think the comment that we've received is exactly that comment, but they haven't gone through the process to even
try. The argument with the school because I believe Olive Avenue is going to be widened correct? Correct. Okay, so the increased burden that's happening on Olive Avenue is because the school has... Everybody seems to want to come and pick up their kid or their child. Kids are baby goats. I shouldn't say that but bringing up their child and the conflict has happened in a row because the school didn't anticipate this transition. The school also enlarged and put more buildings out there yet they didn't do anything about The school has two times a day where there's conflicts at 8 o'clock in the morning and 3 o'clock in I just have a couple quick
3:45 – 3:5326 turns
Just a couple of quick items. Is it possible for us to rescind our willingness to do an out-of-agency service agreement?
Currently the outside area service agreement was not on this property, it was on the adjacent property and it was for an agricultural office So it was for one toilet and one sink.
It seems like each letter that I've seen that's gone in, the can and will serve kind of letter, it's had those words in it.
The original letter said that in 2024. And what we have iterated many times is that annexation is the preferred option for this project, for the benefit of the city of Lompoc.
So we won't see those words anymore
then? I believe you'll have... The applicant will probably ask for an outside service agreement
Council Member Bridge, the Canon Will Serve letter that we provided in May 2024 said that the city will provide service if the City Council approves an out-of-agency service agreement and LAFCO approves the agreement or if the project is annexed.
Right, it's an or statement. And I'm asking can we rescind that? Can we say no, we're not going to do an out of agency agreement?
You can say that without rescinding the letter because the letter says we'll provide service if the City Council approves an out-of-agency service agreement.
Okay well I just don't want to get hung on our own petard here when this gets to LAFCO and they say well you said this was an option And so my recommendation is we take those words out in any way, shape or form we can. But that's
just the recommendation. Before it goes to LAFCO, it will go both to the County of Santa Barbara and to the City Council. So whatever transit transpires between now and LAFCO will come between the county and the city of Lompoc.
Okay. What I heard you say is we can add comments to the notice of proceeding, I believe. The NOP?
The Notice of Preparation. We did talk with the County Planner on that and reported to him that there was the ability...
Potential for more to come.
Yes.
Well, I would like to suggest And I may get over my skis here and not fully understand, but I would like to suggest that the allocation of the impact fees be included into the EIR so that when we get in negotiations later, we've got something to stand on. Because unless you tell me no-no it's already an agreement, we're getting all the impact fees, if that's true then I'll be quiet. If that's not true Then all those impacts for those houses are coming to us and there should be, it'd be kind of nice if the EIR said it's appropriate that the city, the jurisdiction that has to provide the service receives the impact fees. And again I'm thinking ahead of we got arguments coming or negotiations or whatever is the politically correct terms. It would be nice to have I don't know if that's legal.
And I'm not sure exactly how to word it, but the EIR should recognize the RHNA numbers and that the community of impact or the jurisdiction is us. And those RHNA numbers should come to us. Now, I recognize that'll be a negotiating element as well, but if it's in the EIR... We've got things to point to that, hey, some independent agency looked at this and they agree with us. It really belongs here. So those were the two recommendations that I felt if appropriate should be included.
And we appreciate the comments that you provided. We can express that to the county staff. Normally environmental impact reports don't Talk about developer fees in the context of change.
Yeah, I researched that and there are ways to get it in there. You're the expert so I'll bow to your expectation but my research and I can provide it to you says yeah, you can put that in because there are impacts of the project on the jurisdiction that's being impacted. But I'll leave that to your expertise.
Thank you.
Which also lines up with the tax sharing agreement with the county, which is the stalemate in many cases. So if they don't get what the county wants and they deny us on a property tax sharing agreement you kill the project so I
mean... You have more to stand on if you've got an independent agency that said hey this is the appropriate way to handle it. This community is getting impacted It's not fair, you know. So I don't want to kill the project obviously.
No no, I gotcha. We'll see what they gotta do. Council Member Bull?
Thank you. I'll be as quick as I possibly can and again I apologize if I offended all consultants that was not my intention. My only criticism of consultants is I know you guys have to hustle sometimes you have to share and juggle with another city when we don't get you full-time so again you understand where I'm coming from but thank you for your work for our city. I
appreciated the conversation
Thank you. And one small question, and again just devils in the details on you on the slide where you had the different bullet points for the EIR stuff. One of those was your suggesting or recommending or demanding that they have an HOA so that they maintain and they take care of the streets and some of those responsibilities this is hypothetical If that doesn't happen and we absorb it, if they decide not to have an HOA and the streets become grandfathered into the city or however you were annexed into the city and it's our responsibility. Does that change the attractiveness of annexation one way or the other? Or am I just is that a small detail that doesn't matter?
Well most jurisdictions now are looking to the homeowners association to take on infrastructure within their projects. You know, the city has historically the county of Santa Barbara's policy is
3:53 – 3:5924 turns
I would
like
to
make a comment on the private roads. That is more of the trend. The documents that have been provided already do not clearly indicate these will be private roads and so that' s why we reiterate The basin will be an HOA basin. The county is not going to take it and the city is not going to take it, to maintain it. It's a HOA amenity. So the point about where is that basin located? Is it in the county or the city?
That is a valid point that needs to be clarified as part of the project as it's going through this environmental review process.
Thank you for the clarification. I was just concerned that in some worst case scenario, we had to absorb the streets and the cost for maintenance and all of that when that was not our intention. We already have enough issues dealing with our current street conditions etc so i was just wanting to make sure that we had some way to insist or to remind them to include something that protected our interest in that area
And I think the bottom line is, there's a lot of work that needs to be done with this project. A lot of review for the environmental document, public hearings, public comments and the negotiations that need to occur between the city and the county and the applicant. This is, as long as they've been through the process this is really the start of the process because the environmental document is moving forward.
I have one more question, I'm sorry. I did too so hold
on. Oh
go ahead, I apologize. The 1958-59 sewer assessment do you have that locked into the EIR document? That's part of the conversation?
You reminded me that the other day, it was not in our comment letter. So I can do that as a follow-up memo.
I don't know if there's an ability to...I've got some documents going back on how much they paid way back in 58, 59 And I think the dollar value should also be in there and some calculation aspect of how much it is so they understand the sacrifice, especially when somebody says that nobody knew this project was coming. This project's been on the book, I'm sorry, since 70 years? 65 years.
So I think there's an importance of understanding this. Add another one there but that's the... All right. I think that's what they were. Councilmember Ridge was talking about it, getting that in there is understanding and recognizing that you can actually make a much more viable project connecting with us than staying with the county which they're not going to be providing that because I don't think they're going to be taking those monies and putting in a soccer field somewhere or improving Ocean Park, Miguelito Park, Santa Rosa Park or Halama
I'm not exactly sure how to say this, but we had previously said we would try to take advantage. The annexation is going to require an EIR correct?
As a responsible party to this environmental impact report, we're asking that annexation be analyzed as part of this document so that we don't have to generate another document.
Excellent, thank you very much.
We're updating our general plan, and the same environmental issues are going to be reviewed in that EIR in the coming year. So we have two documents being generated at the same time as this project moves forward. And so yes. I just
wanted to make sure if there was anything that would require for the annexation that we put the comment in at the NOP and see if we can get it. Let
me
give you a
couple
more real fast. Some of the comments on education I learned at LAFCO, and I know they're not all exactly lined with EIRs and environmental docs but they might help the process get through especially when it comes to agricultural protectionism as statements have been made about Goleta area. I think I've referenced and given you when the dates and times at the meetings of one of them being the willingness of the owner to farm anymore, the fact that the farmer, the owner is retired.
That was an overwhelming consideration for annexation and it kind of waved all the magic wand about agricultural protections. Is this something at this time that those need to be entered?
We can restate that as a comment, but agricultural impacts are part of the EIR process. So I think it would be good to hear from the applicant on answering some of those
issues. And I'm just referencing a number of these things that I've learned at LAFCO that they Yeah. We're just trying to think of all the battle that these guys have been fighting so hard for, it's kind of...
Great. And like
I said, I will stop. Okay, yeah. Applicant, come on up, applicant. Take 65 years. Come on down.
3:59 – 4:061 turns
Good evening. Honorable Mayor and City Council members, thank you so much for having us tonight. And thank you to Lori for that great presentation. First of all it's been a pleasure to work with your staff and we will continue to do so as we move through this process. So I just want to provide a few additional updates about timing in the EIR and then also address some of your questions that you have.
So it seems like everyone here is aware of the long history. So in response, the same year that LAFCO denied the city's request to expand its sphere of influence, this team prepared in December 2023 a builder's remedy application to the County of Santa Barbara and the reason we did so was there was a small window in which you could basically propose a project on ag land because the county was out of compliance at that time with which is housing element.
We looked at all of the LAFCO proceedings and we decided to design a project that had a better chance of getting approved based on the lessons learned. And so one of the big considerations was really the size, because in 2003 they denied sphere of influence expansion that included the Bodger property. So we've returned with about a 58 acre project and the reason we believe that this is a project that can be annexed, which is our ultimate goal of course as well, is that it's going to retain about 40 acres in agricultural production. The area that its gonna be retained is actually the prime soils area at 100-acre Bodger Meadow property.
So we believe this has a high chance of getting through and we're excited about what this entails. So as you heard, it's a 340 unit property And we've been working closely with the county planning and development team. They have hired a incredible EIR preparer, this is WSP it's a global consultancy and they also happen to have an office in the city of Santa Barbara. The reason why it's been great to work with them they actually prepared the programmatic EIR for the County of Santa Barbara for the counties housing element So there's been some efficiencies there and timing, and they're actually moving very quickly.
We expect to see the admin draft of the EIR in the next few months with a public draft that will go to, of course, all the responsible agencies in the public in October of 2026. After that, we hope that we can get to the County Planning Commission for a vote in Q1 2027. So, we all know these projects take a long time. We've been at it for about two and half years but we're making really good progress. We've also been working really close with LAFCO to ensure that as you heard that we can use this same document and we don't have to start over and spend a whole another year studying this project.
So of course, we can't predetermine LAFCO's decision Right, we don't know what they're going to do. And again we all hope we have you know the magical project that's gonna get through but as a result the EIR is going to study both this sphere of influence expansion and an out-of-agency service agreement along with annexation to ensure that the project has sufficient water wastewater and electric services So we're embarking on the steps set forth by LAFCO and the county, and that is going to, and we just heard this week I did have a call with your council.
It is gonna require a draft term sheet that's going to set forth what an out of agency service agreement would look like. And that again is because by just studying annexation, the county is not comfortable moving forward with that because what happens if annexation doesn't succeed? So we're sort of in this conundrum, but we are committed to this project and we hope we can work with you on that. I'll be working with your council to provide more details and that will of course come back to your council at a future date.
So I think what I would want to say is that it makes sense to annex this project. The reason why it wouldn't make sense to do an out-of-agency service agreement as these homeowners would pay about 200% for the same services that their neighbors receive, so it doesn't really make any sense to have these homeowners paid double for water, sewer etc., and of course the goal of this project is to provide affordable units for both first-time homebuyers and also the affordable components.
So we don't want a hodgepodge of services, again I think everyone... And we've done a lot of outreach to the community, to county supervisors and we think that we have support for this project as it's so designed. So we've received the city's detailed letters and in response, we've made several changes to the project. But you can imagine we're sort of stuck in a difficult position. And the reason being is right now we're in front of the county. The project is located in the county's jurisdiction so right now we're really focused on meeting the county's objective standards.
In addition this project is a housing project so it's protected by state law So the project, wherever it's located does not have to comply with subjective standards. And the reason the state did this is just to ensure that these projects are financially feasible and can actually be built. So we're going to continue working with city staff and looking at all of these comments We understand the three big concerns are, and so we're going to be looking to see if there's anything we can do to ensure this project makes sense for good planning.
So we'll be responding to your detailed comment letter in the next few weeks. And again, I just want to close. Again we have the same goal as the city to have this project built in a timely manner that can be actually financed and move forward. We don't want to be bogged down in kind of some of these infeasible requests. We have looked very closely at the Caltrans denial strip and one of the top transportation experts were working with said he's never been able to remove those conditions. He's tried It requires its own CEQA documentation and its own discretionary action by Caltrans. So you can see we could be stuck in a do loop. Again, our goal is to get this project built. So with that, we're here with Jack Bodgers in the audience along with Jim Slott from Granite Peak who's done a lot of these great projects really converting ag land for smart projects so happy to answer any questions and with that I wanted to turn it over to Jim to explain some of the economic benefits in this region as a result of a recent study that we commissioned.
4:06 – 4:111 turns
Thank you Amy, I'm Jim Slott. Thank You Mayor and Council Members for the ability to speak tonight. This project has been evolving over last two-and-a-half years it continues to evolve and so what I wanted to speak to just briefly tonight is a couple other recent I'd like A firm that's been around almost half a century. They've been doing development consulting in Southern California for almost 50 years, and they are a third-party consulting firm that's kind of an independent party that also consults and coaches during the LAFCO process. So they are often hired by cities, developers to kind of coach through the tax sharing agreement.
And so I brought a few copies to share tonight, but just at high level what they do is they have a real detailed model that they matrix out all the different revenues that are generated by a project like this and the conclusions of this are basically three different revenue sources. One is the general fund revenue with the city Two is the enterprise funds of the city, which is all the utility.
And three is the school district. So a project this size, they start with an assumption of the full build-out and the assessed value after full build-out and full sale of $200 million. Which on a 1% California tax base generates $2 million in annual tax revenue. That's hardly any tax revenue now on the property as ag land. So it's basically $2 million of new property tax revenue. So this study breaks all that out, plus some other use taxes, sales taxes in it. Basically the net is to the general fund of the city about a couple hundred thousand dollars a year. That's after all services, all expenses to this project The net to the enterprise funds of the water utility, electric utility, wastewater and solid waste is a million-and-a-half dollars a year.
And that is the user fees. And then property taxes mostly go to the school district. In our state of California, in most states and the net to the school district would be about $630,000 a year. So this is the study that would go to LAFCO and would be used to help negotiate the split between the county and the city on an annexation. The other thing I have is just an updated study from our traffic engineer regarding the requested connection to ocean and what it would do to reallocating the traffic at the different intersections surrounding the project.
And basically, it says there's no effect, there's no change at all in the Olive and B Street intersection. So that was a question that we were asked to answer and we've hired our technical experts to do that. As this project continues to evolve, it'll evolve again and we have very smart educated experienced civil engineers and we've designed this project three different times. We are here with the project now that has these drainage basins because of the nature of this site.
This site is the lowest point around, everybody drains into it and it's below the level of the Mogolito Channel so we can't pump stormwater into the channel so we're below that channel which is why we can't get into it. So which is the reason why this is all engineered with these drainage basins. We could engineer A different design that would never get built. You could always engineer anything if you've got the money to build it, and there's ways to engineer it where we don't have the basins but it involves moving a mountain of dirt and will never get built so we are here with this project currently that has evolved over time And it is very technical and very complicated, and it works.
And so it'll continue to change a little bit, and we appreciate the comments, and it will get better because of your comments, so we welcome more and more comments. So we're available for any questions.
4:12 – 4:2747 turns
I think we get 16% to 17% of that One concern I do have is that we get some of these projects to come in and one of the difficulties Lompoc has is a significant portion of the properties we have in town have rolled off the tax rolls. I think it's over 30% of our multiple family housing units don't pay any property tax. Huge burden on the schools, huge burden on the city, on police and fire. Hopefully that's nothing that's going to happen in here with your
Well that's reflected in this study because by our builder's remedy application and by state law we have to provide a certain amount of affordable housing. And this size of project requires half of the apartment, 70 of the 140 units as affordable so this fiscal study shows that there is no assessed value and no property taxes paid by those
So who's getting those 70 units? Will you guys, I mean just because they're affordable doesn't mean they have to pay, they can't make property tax. That that's not a restricted covenant that has to be put on it.
That's true the reason it's assumed to have zero property taxes is because it would be built owned and operated by a non-profit.
See that's that's the scariest thing I've heard about this project right now. Because we are just overburdened with I mean, I think that's the restriction right now.
The requirement under state law is those 70 units have to be low income.
Low income is a family of four, 152,000.
Well it's a certain percentage of the average
income. That's the county number.
Below is what 60? There's low, very low. And it goes 50, 60, 70, those kind of percentages of the...
I don't think that has any difference on
what we pay property tax for. Right. My concern is and like I said is you being extorted meaning the people of Lompoc being extorted that the housing authority ends up with another chunk of property and they pay no property tax. So this is a significant concern that I have. Yeah, it is. And it doesn't have to be that way. You don't have to be extorted to give to a non-profit that rolls them off the tax rolls.
Yeah, it's one way to get these affordable units financed and built today is to have a...
Sure but what ends up happening is people of Lompoc are going to have a burden forever of subsidizing that housing because police and fire services parks and everything else you've been here this whole meeting the money we need for a pool and everything they won't contribute We don't get the revenue. So I'm just letting you know where we are in our town, and we have a huge, we have a plethora, we are super, super saturated.
Agreed it is required subsidy to get those units built and
owned and operated. Maybe for you but it doesn't have to be done that way. We got another big project that's talking about rolling off the tax rolls. We just had one that was eight-tenths of 1% of our total property tax value rolled off here recently, and they've got another one that's about twice that that's trying to roll off. How do we pay for police and fire when stuff like this happens?
So just something for my concern.
I completely agree, and again this project has morphed quite a bit and it will continue to morph as we get comments when we go through the letters. We're responding.
You are going to hear an outcry from a lot of people in the public about that because We're all feeling the pain. You hear our arguments with PD and fire, what's going on and we need more money? We need more money. Let me get this city manager has something to say here real fast.
We also have a housing in lieu. You don't have to build any of them you could give us the money and we put it back into programs where we can get people into homes like first time home buyer so there is options to go around that without building all the low-income housing that he's talking about that'll be subsidized
So just to clarify, are you saying... I want to make sure I'm hearing you correctly. Are you saying because you have to provide the low-income housing, the only way you can afford to get them built is to have some nonprofit come in and fund that portion? Is that what I mean? I'm trying to understand what you're saying because I was of the same impression as Jim was or Mayor was Yes, you have to provide low-income housing but that doesn't take it off the tax roll. It goes off the tax roll when it goes to a county agency or a nonprofit and that's why you're seeing our antennas go up because you use those specific words. Correct. So back to my question is it a financial requirement on your end or is the county telling you you have to give those to a nonprofit?
No it's just that this study wanted, we had to assume certain things for the fiscal study and we just took worst case assumption that those 70 units would have zero assessed value and therefore zero tax generation. But no they don't have to be built that way you know the County of Santa Barbara has had their 15% inclusionary housing policy for 30 years. I've been building in the county for 30 years and built dozens of projects all over the County of Santa Barbara, mostly for sale projects that we did.
And every one of those projects, we built the affordable units and we sold them. They were for sale project. We didn't really build any rentals. We never paid into the In-Lieu Fund. Other developers did. We didn't. And we built all of those affordable units within our projects, sold them to the county's inventory people. You
just said it again. I really want to get clear in my head what you're telling me. You just made the statement, we built them and then we sold them to the county inventory.
That's what I heard you say, I'm sorry. It's a lottery system and you don't choose who you sell to they do. 20-30 years later, there's more funding available for those affordable units where the entire burden is not on the developer. So there are tax credits, there are other organizations that have developed over the 30 years where the burden doesn't fall entirely on us.
And I'm all for that.
And so that's why you're seeing these affordable projects go to the housing authority, to other non-profits because they have the ability to attract those
funds. You went down the rabbit hole again and said housing authority doesn't pay property
tax. I
know that. They have a thousand units in our town. They have a huge percentage. More than a thousand huh?
But what I'm
saying
is the difference in what We
really love our first-time homebuyer assistance plan. We really love that it works out well, it's a silent second over $100,000 on that and really works well ownership dispersed amongst the community. It doesn't create projects, it does a really good thing I'd like to see something maybe like that but let me go to Council Member Bull he's been waiting patiently.
No I think these are all valid points and I appreciate this study and I don't have a lot of pushback other than I do think, yeah, I agree to some point that we have to be, you know, we may not even be able to control half of this because it's this big complicated discussion between LAFCO and annexation or not. But you talked about the study and the positive impact that it could have on the community but then I also know how property tax works and that's a certain percentage of something. And then you mentioned tax, you guys are still in the tax sharing negotiation Part of it, so I'm trying to understand like What's up for negotiation at the tax sharing level? Because at the end of the day we're trying to annex this in and if it's a net negative impact And we can't even add a police officer or something.
Those are things that we have to consider So maybe help me understand
Yeah, no as a housing project in general versus commercial which generates sales tax revenue or bed tax revenue or whatever housing is more of a burden on services than commercial. Commercial generates a lot of revenue, a lot of taxes other than property taxes. So yes residential really needs to be looked at the burden on a community and that's what these people do. That's what this consultant does so they help in the LAFCO process and that's when that sharing agreement is negotiated is during the LAFCO annexation process
I guess what I was misunderstanding is how, if it's still a negotiation in LAFCO, meaning there's...I think you added up to a little $4.2 million or something. You said that schools are going to get some, utilities are going to get some, property tax will get some. That's 4.2 million dollars-ish We obviously don't get all of that and part of it's up for negotiation. So I guess in layman's terms, I'm trying to understand well best case scenario what with the city itself?
What's the best case scenario for the city in this? I know it's an estimate.
That's what this report basically
But that's saying what the impact will be, but I'm not... Are we receiving 100% of that positive impact? Or is that being shared or is that divvied up? I mean,
I
hope
that makes sense. So the point in time that we're at right now is the environmental review There are a number of issues that do need to be negotiated. And in conversations with Amy and Jim, we need to get started on that sooner than later because this is a very complicated project based on the SB 330 portion that the county's dealing with as well as what we are, and the county that certain things need to happen. So this information that was presented here tonight is a good starting point but the city may hire their own consultant to look at what they think the tax exchange should be Thank you, Mr. Chair and members of the committee. I would like to make a couple of comments on how the financial terms should be for annexation to the city.
As noted, the developer fees are an important element to this as well as the rena numbers being allocated between the county and the city so there are a number And so when they say tax exchange agreement, it covers a lot of elements. And that will start happening and brew for awhile while we're waiting for the environmental information to come in and any amendments to the project. But at some point after the environmental document is done it starts going At the county, comes to the city.
But before it goes to LAFCO there has to be an approved tax exchange agreement.
Before it's finalized at LAFCO? It can go in front of LAFCO but before it's finalized...
Well I mean the example of Richard's Ranch...
It was in front of LAFCO but it went over there to get a tax sharing agreement and got killed.
And the and the county did not agree to the terms in the project died
exactly
so I guess it and I think we're on the same page. I think what we're in, I'm putting words in some of our mouths but what I'm just saying is like where we're in a deficit already So when we're looking at this project, it doesn't mean that we can say yes or no even on some of these things. But we can fight for and insist that as these negotiations are happening, that we're highlighting the deficiencies that we have as a city to provide service. And if it's going to be a situation where we're able to annex that in but then most of the money still goes to the county, we don't get that full general fund bump. We don't get a lot of those things. Then we're only chasing our tail further and further into not being as a service oriented community as I think that we should be.
So again, whoever is defending us or pushing and negotiating, I hope that you understand and the mayor did make a good point. We have a lot of things happening in our community that don't happen at the same percentage level in other cities so we just don't have the same tax bases as they do. So we need every little bit that we can get.
So I'll take it back to the ask for the City Council for tonight. Was a briefing of where the project is at this moment, a review of the letters that were provided by the city staff and We will provide any additional comments that the City Council has. We heard Councilman Bridges' comments and also the Mayor's comments, and we will put a memo together. And we can have that go under Dean's signature or bring it back to the mayor to sign.
4:27 – 4:3222 turns
Hold on one second. We have some quick housework to do?
Yes, but I wanted to...
I got you, but then I have to go to public comments, so hold on. Don't fully deliberate out yet. Go ahead, Council Member Starbucks.
Yeah, I'll go ahead and make a motion we extend the meeting until 1130.
Motion button. There it is, there's your motion. There's a motion by Starbucks, seconded by Ball. Let's go ahead and vote. And that passes 4-1. Some more coffee? All right, buddy, I know you'd be at work at four in the morning, I know. All right, get that over with. Let me go for public comment and then we'll try to finalize a wrap, okay? Any member of public comment?
Got here for a long time here. Internet, telephone.
I'm the only one on Teams, so no public comment. Nobody? Teams or phones.
No? Dang it! I guess being later... Yeah he is over here. All right come on back. Now we'll let you finish the wrap.
Thank you sorry about that. What
are you looking for? Uh
well first of all uh thank
you guys thank you for waiting and i know you guys got to drive home too so thank you guys. You two
So we just wanted to assure the City Council members that the letters that you have in your packet have been filed with the county. There's an opportunity for additional communication from the council to the county. The comments that I've heard here tonight include a discussion of developer fee, RHNA numbers and the Budger I will be watching this meeting again to make
sure I catch anything else.
And so the only direction that we need is who should be
Is that a customary item, city attorney? For the manager or mayor what do you
want?
There's no customary one so whatever you choose. I signed faster than him he's got a lot more stuff to sign than I did. Who has the
prettier signature? Who can read it? Who has the prettier signature? We're both pretty ugly.
Gloria, I just wanted to let you know I had emailed you my comments so you should have them already.
Yes, I did.
All right anything else before we go ahead and wrap up with that motion? I'll make that motion as stated by staff. Wait for a second. Seconded by Ball. Let's go vote. Me signing It passes 5-0, woo! 65 years in the making. Like a big old Timex. Most people don't remember that, right? The Timex keeps on tickin'. Oh my goodness, ah. I hope we get this done before you lose all your hair. I'm gonna try hard, my friend. I remember in 2008 you were out here with that colored pamphlet tryin', oh my gosh.
It's sad. It's really sad, especially the People's Republic of Santa Barbara County. It's really sad. It's sad. Yeah, up in the armpit colonies as we've been called. All right. Woo-hoo! What are we going to do now? Robin? All right guys I think that's all we need from you guys. You're more than welcome to stay for the cartwheels Huh? We're going to do item 13. Let's see where we're gonna...
Right? Item 13. So I could ask for written communications first, I guess. Right? And then we go to oral communications.
Nothing more than you've already received.
4:32 – 4:379 turns
All right, so nothing in written communications. Let's go to oral communications. Do you need the full presentation or do you have questions? You want a partial? What do you want? Item 13. Item 13, you're up. What would you like?
I can just ask the questions or make my statement or
whatever. Do you have, can you put something up on the screen for us?
I don't really need anything. You're talking about he, him?
I'm asking him so it could reference staff. There's no
slide show. Huh? There's no slideshow so I can answer
any questions. Well just put the staff item up.
So there we go look at that! So basically this project is asking us to spend a million and a half bucks And that means it's really two million over budget already. It hasn't turned a shovel, and I'm not against the skate park but what's not in here is what we're saying no to because this is a big chunk of our money so we're saying no to something else. I don't know what the something else is. I can't tell it from the staff report You saw a similar problem coming on the pool.
I personally believe that to approve something like this without having understanding of what you're saying no to, what it is, where we're taking the money from and how did the river park save $750,000 or whatever it is Out of last year's budget was $750,000 and we're taking $500,000 or some amount. I'm sorry the staff reports incomplete in my opinion without telling me what it is we're impacting by taking away a million and a half.
The River Park has a $3 million budget. We're taking, I don't know, a third of it or a quarter of it or something. What are we not going to do that we were going to do on River Park? What are we not going to do with the park improvements that we were going to doing? And the only rationale for doing this today is sunk cost which is not a valid It's time constrained.
Well, I can give you an overview a little bit just so I can give you some context. So the original grant was for $3.648 million and we're asking for 5.1 so we're 1.5 over. We have contingencies built in that, so hopefully we won't have to spend all that portion. But currently we've already spent $1.2 million towards the grant. So the reason that came up was we noticed that the project was going a little bit slower than what it is and then We were trying to buy those Currently, if we were trying to buy those products currently they would be marked up as well or to have the general contractor buy those then there would be a markup. So staff took that initiative and bought what we could and that with our designer fees is about $1.2 million.
If we don't do the grant, then the general fund will have to absorb that $1.2 million. The 1.5 through the Quimby fees and the park impact fees, those are eligible fees for this project that enhances and increases Those funds wouldn't be able to use them for maintenance at the pool or anything on that note. So those funds wouldn't be eligible for maintenance at the pool, so putting these fees here, those wouldn't algebra cost to be able to...
No, I'm saying that these funds here are eligible for this project because we're expanding the scope of College Park. So using park impact fees and the Quimby fee so they're different than maintenance like the pool trying to do plastering or anything on that those funds then were put on a staff report to be able I'm not criticizing the decisions you made.
4:37 – 4:436 turns
Already that's not what this is about. Second thing is. The 3.5 had about a half a million dollars of contingency fees in it that you've. that have been in this new model spent. You've gone to a 7 1⁄2% contingency fee on the 5.1, which is kind of interesting. We went through a third but we're gonna block down to only 7 1⁄2 in this project now so if I was a gambling man I'd say you're coming back for more money again but the real issue to me You're using sunk cost as the justification to go spend more money.
And intuitively that feels right, but mathematically it's not. But put that aside. It doesn't change the fact that I don't know what we're saying no to for the increase of 1.5. If we took the other option which I am not a proponent of, but if you just said oh I'm just going to pay the million and be done with the money I've already spent You're $4 million now that you're not spending. So I just personally, I'm only one guy up here but I would want to know what we're saying no to? What is it we're not going to do with that one and a half million dollars that we might do if we didn't do this project.
That's just my position, I'm not criticizing what you've done today, I understand we want the park, I want the park but if you come back after we give this approved next week and say oh well you should have known we're not going to do this because we spent it over there I'm going to
I would just say that the one point is we are not doing, it would negatively affect expanding parks. So these funds are built to expand park land and park projects so we wouldn't be renovating
Wait a minute. The money that I was told was coming out of, a good portion was coming out of the Quimby Act and then a portion was coming out of park improvements not the Park Acquiring Fund and then the third element is coming out of a project we've already expensed. It's not even in our cash reports it's money that was pre-allocated to the river park for the expansion So there's some part of the expansion we're not going to do now, I don't know what that is.
And there's some part of what you would normally spend Quimby on and there are some kind of park improvements. Some playgrounds aren't going to get a swing set or something. I just don't know what it is.
I think one of the concerns that I have is I hear what you're saying there and the problem This Prop 68 grant, that was way back when I asked you guys to file for these and kudos for getting it. My concern is why are we six or seven years later didn't finish the project? And we know that a lot of this is because construction has gone up significantly over these last three or four years.
If we had done this project after we got the grant funding We probably wouldn't be digging into the other accounts. So my question is, what did we do and have we learned about why we did what we did?
Well, we applied back in 2019 but were awarded December 8th of 2021 And so in 2022 and the end of 2023 is when we went through still the community meetings, meeting with the stakeholders finalizing because it was a conceptual design. So for us to get to the planning commission in October of We had to have a set plan and after that went through planning commission, then we started the building permit process.
Why where we are? Why did it take so long? I mean from October of 23 which actually the project was waited since February 9th at 23 because it could have gone shortly thereafter Who delayed from the last three years?
4:43 – 4:4720 turns
Right after the planning commission, then getting that project through the building permit process and finalizing it. We elected a staff to get the building permit I'm just asking why. I don't think it was delayed, it was just a process.
It's delayed three
years? Earlier tonight we talked about process so...
This is a skate park you're not building a house. So... It was very complex. Okay, no answer. All right. Mario, I'm just trying to figure it out because we can't do this to ourselves. We keep doing this and there's another six or seven hundred thousand dollars in delay. City Manager, do you know why it was delayed so long? I know a lot of it was and we've done a lot of work with our
procurement department.
We
were taking too long to get
stuff done.
Okay, way too long. And we've been since that's one of the things you approved tonight was we're trying to redo it We got a consultant come in rebuilding hold the whole section. We've got a lot of things fixed that were broken Yeah But there's a lot of projects that took too long and the prices kept going up
and he's these kill us They kill our poor little town Do we have others that we can be out there? Maybe maybe you could give us a list of some of these other things and we can try to find some Consultants or something helps expedited but this kind of money we're I agree with Council Member Bridge, there's other projects we're not going to be able to do. You know, I'm gonna support the project but I mean this is just mind-boggling for us. This is a lot of money.
Yep
it's
a lot of money.
Up in
smoke. Especially at the same time when we're looking at how are we gonna fix the pool at 2.2 million dollars. Reblaster and do the playground or the water features yeah that's a lot of money. It's a big hit all at once.
I got a bunch of marble maybe we just marble the pools. I got
a whole bunch of them.
Hurst Castle. All right. Council Member Ball, there you are.
So no arguments here. Look I understand the frustration look I think there's a lot half the people that were involved in building or developing or planning they were waiting for COVID to go away and inflation was automatically going to drop and everything would go back to the prices that it was five years ago obviously hasn't worked out that way so costs are inflated uh i think the main thing i'm trying to get across here is i don't want to jeopardize having to endanger funds and the general fund uh to get back to the state because we couldn't figure this out And I hear what you're saying about, well we're probably saying no in a different area. But if I may make the positive argument that we're also saying yes even though it's awkward or it's going to have additional costs, we're saying yes to an expanded community park where right now is just grass, a fence and a skate park.
We're talking about adding in features that are family friendly, basketball court, skate park. And again we're talking about a place Lompoc that has very little or limited things for youth and families to do. This is still a net positive in my book because if we also think about, okay you got a million and a half that we gotta come up with but at the same time if the state said hey, if you can come up with a million and a half dollars, we'll give you three and a half million dollars to go do something I think we thought about it in that context we'd probably be like hey, you know, that's pretty good leverage there so I know it's not perfect, it's not ideal but this is an expanded Well sought out, beautiful addition to our city and for our youth.
So again I'm frustrated that the costs are through the roof. I don't want it to pay back the state they gave us some money and as far as some of these funds are concerned I think you're pretty clear that we can't use those funds to just go and do everything else I It's not ideal, but we do have a way to pay for this project to get off the ground. Is that fair?
So again it's definitely not ideal here where you're coming from, but for me it's a net positive if this thing actually gets built it's another part of Lompoc that we can be proud of
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I take one issue with your statement. Just one.
4:48 – 4:5444 turns
These funds are being reallocated from somewhere else. So they had an intent. You can't say they wouldn't have been used for anything
else. They weren't, if you probably go back to the old Maximus report from 2002 there's probably something in there that ain't happening so they aren't committed funds. What account numbers are they?
The River Park is committed funds it's not even in the cash it's in an expense account.
Is this
committed
money? City Manager, you're dead microphone. Bob? Anybody? Wore you guys out we gotta get some batteries.
Victor, we have to be faster, huh? The batteries don't last long enough. Yeah. Yeah, impact fees that's... But they're not committed right? They're not committed yet. They've been opened. Why are they in an expense account? The campground ones are. That was one of my solutions. Which ones are? The campground ones are resources that we had already planned on spending on the campground expansion. They're committed. And my intention of holding those to those resources is I wanted to spend money where we were gonna make money back by running spaces because of the CalPERS increases. To me this is very dangerous where we're at, where we don't have those resources to put it and Steve's absolutely right. It's not going to get spent somewhere else.
But then again it would be because you got to make up 1.2 million dollars to get back to the state We did approve a CIP plan
And this is not in there anywhere, none of it. Not the original grant? There's nowhere you can find this project that we approved it and we're coming here and saying okay well we'll still throw another million and a half against it and I'm willing to do that if we all do it with an open eye. This is what we're not going to do. So
how much money was committed to the park?
The RV park? I'd have
I think technically you probably could have done more than about 10%.
We had about $750,000 budgeted for the campgrounds and we have more funds budgeted next year in 2027 for the campgrounds. So this is about two-thirds of the 26th
portion. Thank goodness you had some money somewhere because that are going to eat 1.2 million. There goes that fire truck. Sorry, guys. All right. Anybody else? Council Member Paul, you got another question or are you making a motion
to go? Look I get it. I'm really proud of the work that you guys have done at the campground and again this is a choice, right? This is a choice. We put it here we get more money back. You've done a lot of great work with the campground hopefully we're in a place where he can start to like Bring in some revenue at its current position. It sounds like you have additional funds put towards that, but this is also a choice for the community to make this happen. Worst case we got to actually come up with money to pay the state back. We're between a rock and a hard place on this from my perspective. The only other thing I'll say is that kids...we don't want kids doing skating on campground property. We want them skating at the appropriate place.
I'd love to see this project move forward
I'm dodging public comment because I did it earlier. I'm doing a motion to approve staff recommendation, looking for a second. I'll call the vote. Motion by Mosby, seconded by Ball. Let's go ahead and vote.
Thank you.
Passes 4-1 with Council Member Bridge voting no. All right. What do you guys want to do next? Seven minutes. All right, council comments and meeting reports. Council Member Ball. Nothing to report, thanks. Councillor Starbuck.
No reports.
Oh, oral communications. I'm sorry. Let me go back. Oral communication. Anybody else with oral communication in the last two minutes? Anybody on Zoom or whatever you want to call me, internet, cell phone? All right. Seeing nobody rise for oral communications I'll come bring it back. Council Member Bola, did you gain anything else to report in the last two minutes?
No.
All right. Council Member Starbucks?
No reports.
Council Member Vega? Nothing. Council Member Bridge.
Yeah, I got stuff. So Dean, Laurel and Cee, there's two cars that have been parked for quite a while. They've got the windows busted out. I had a public safety commissioner call me. It's been reported it was promised to be done. Could you look at that please?
Yeah, I went by and looked at it already. I
know exactly what
you're
talking about.
We're going to try and come up with a solution with
that. Quickly, I think in reviewing this park thing, what I've discovered is half of our impact fees are going to buy land and half are going to park improvement. I think maybe we should come back and think about that as to why we have money going to buy parkland. We have plenty of land, I think, and we need it. for improvement, so if you could just bring that back.
That's the way the impact fees
was in
2003 or so. Now you're kind of stuck where they're at.
Why? Why can't we change them? Because
of
the way the impact
fee...
We changed the impact fees
last month! No, when you collected them, you collected them
first. You can't change the past but we can change the future.
Well, we don't collect anything now.
I asked, we are still doing park impact fees.
No, no we're not.
4:54 – 4:5912 turns
Okay, well today's conversation was we were still doing that. Please get back to me on that.
Police fire library and containers for solid waste are gone.
I think we changed all those, but I don't think we touched our
fees.
All right well then please show me that okay? And then the last comment I'd like is I sent an email to you and the mayor that we really need a budget to actual report. And it can be a draft, but we're in these problems because we don't know how much money we've got. We just keep spending, but we don't know what our budget was and how much
we spent. May, April. April? That's probably your best tool right now because what it's going to take a while for us to close all the numbers and see the numbers. I
don't they don't have to be final for us to do budget to actuals.
They'll just be blind guesses until we get the true ups for sales tax
property tax. He's got budget to actuals I guarantee
you. Yeah we did it already. We projected out. It's very time-consuming takes us two months or so to do a projection that he did in April if you want another one it's not gonna be until October November by then it's gonna be the actuals
All right, I'd like to have a conversation with Mr. Cross but it boggles my mind that he doesn't have a button that he can push and get his budget to actuals with the numbers that are in there. I'm not buying that any more than I bought this was a state mandated requirement or no this is not true so those are my comments.
All right, congrats everybody for the 4th of July good job Mario and your team there's a steady flow You know, 3-400 people were traveling in and out of the thing. I want to bring back the $1.50 hot dog. Look, every kid should have a hot dog. I'm still around. We're going to find a way to do that. I'll cook them. Whatever. Let's get these kids happy. It's getting me. Eight dollars for a hotdog is pretty tough on a Fourth of July.
The city spent a lot of money to bring that in and we need to get these... you know what I'm saying. Thank you for the shout out on the Flower Festival float. We had a lot of fun, Council Member Starbuck, he actually stuck some flowers on there too. We had a good time? Yeah it was amazing. I did attend SB Cagney. Oh yeah my Statue of Liberty was out there partying too at the field.
I picked it up yesterday, it didn't get stolen, I reprocessed it. This is Just get it to them so they can say that we can potentially take some action. I think it's significant enough that we actually need to get somebody to write a letter. This is what the point of fact is, that in their 2060 numbers, they don't recognize the 10,000 jobs coming at the base out here.
So there's no recognition at all. In fact, their numbers are so skewed and off that we will actually probably surpass their 2035 numbers in the next year or two. So they give us a total of 600 to grow in the next five years and that's going to happen real fast already. So I think there are areas of concern, and real fast the problem is yes the report doesn't necessarily do a lot We need to get here so you can see Until we have a special meeting, I heard. Are we adjourning to that special meeting?
Never mind August 24th, July 21st 2026 at 6pm.