UnGovr Transcript
iHow this transcript is madeUnGovr transcribes the official recording with automated speech-to-text, separates speakers by voice, and matches voices to the seated roster. Names and attributions are AI estimates and may contain errors.Verify any quote yourself: click anywhere in the transcript and the official video jumps to that exact moment, so you can check any quote against the recording.0:07 – 1:504 turns
Welcome everyone to the City Council of Solvang and we are starting at five o'clock for our closed session part of this. And if you would, who can read the roll call? Can you do that Mr. Murphy?
Roll call — called by Unidentified speaker 2
Show transcript
Thank you. Would you like to read into the record our item for today, for closed session?
Thank you. We are going to recess to closed session for item number 2A, public employee performance evaluation pursuant to government code section 54957B1 title city manager. Item 2B conference with labor negotiators pursuant to government code section 54957.6 agency delegated representative Chelsea O'Sullivan City Attorney unrepresented employees city manager.
Item number 2C, conference with labor negotiators pursuant to government code section 54957.6 agency designated representative Dave Fleischman assistant city attorney Chelsea O'Sullivan city attorney employee organization Teamsters Union Local 986 Item 2D, Conference with Labor Negotiators. The closed session is authorized by the Government Code Section 54957.6 Agency Representative Randy Murphy City Manager Employee Organization All Unrepresented Employees Item 2e, conference with real property negotiators pursuant to Government Code 54956.8 Property 4784th Place Solvang California APN 139173014 Agency Negotiator Randy Murphy City Manager Negotiating Party CRA Solvange RE LLC under negotiation both price and terms
Thank you very much. Yes, we will open it to public comment for anything on that item that was reported. Anybody on Zoom? Anybody in the room? We will now close it for public comment and we are recessed to closed session. Good evening, we are back from closed session and I will ask the Madam Attorney if there's any reportable action.
1:50 – 1:565 turns
On items 2A, 2C, 2D and 2E there are no reportable actions. On item B which is labor negotiations regarding the city manager the City Council gave staff direction on several amendments to make to the city managers employment contract and those will be discussed in open session in the last item of the agenda this evening.
Thank you very much And if there's nothing else to report, we will now adjourn from our closed session at 645. And we will open call the order. The open session also at 645 this evening. Madam Clerk, roll call please.
For the Pledge of Allegiance Travis is going to lead us in that if you please stand and remove your hats
And to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.
Thank you. I'd like to welcome everybody to tonight's meeting, and a little housekeeping if please silence your phones in advance. If it's our Rotary Club they'd probably fine you for that but we won't. We'll just tell you in advance to silence those. And we're going to move forward with proclamations for tonight. And it's a tremendous honor for me to share with the community this proclamation, but it's also with great sadness that she's not here to receive it tonight.
Our good friend and city icon, Susan Williams passed away this morning. And our prayers and our thoughts are with her, Jack and the family as I read this proclamation honoring Susan Williams Whereas Susan Williams has demonstrated transformative commitment to the Solvang community through her visionary leadership and tireless dedication spanning nearly two decades.
And whereas since opening the Wandering Dog Wine Bar with their family in 2007, Susan has served as a cornerstone of Solvangs business community strengthening the bonds between local businesses residents and visitors alike. And whereas as a primary architect of Solvang Third Wednesdays and co-founder of the Scarecrow Fest in 2010, Susan created vibrant reoccurring celebrations that have enriched community life and driven lasting economic vitality.
And whereas Susan founded this Solvang Summer Concert Series, a beloved free and family-friendly event that continues to bring the joy of live music and cultural connection to downtown Solvang. Welcoming locals and visitors in a spirit of open celebration And whereas Susan Williams possesses a rare and remarkable ability to turn ideas into community staples, leaving an indelible mark on the spirit culture and success of Solvang.
Now therefore, be it resolved that I Mayor David Brown along with the City Council of the city of Solvang California do hereby recognize and honor Susan Williams for extraordinary contributions to this community. And that her legacy of generosity creativity and civic leadership stands as an inspiration to us all who call Solvange home. In witness thereof, I have set my hand and have caused the official seal of the city of Solvang California to be affixed to this 27th day of April 2026.
Susan Williams we remember you well and thank you for all you've done
1:56 – 2:1511 turns
Thank you Council and City of Solvang. Susan would have been embarrassed by this she always worked behind the scenes quietly But she always made friends everywhere she went. So, I was going to say more but I don't think I can. This is her grandson Max who has a few words to say as well.
Thank you Jack
Good evening Council. My name is Max, I'm Susan's grandson. When my sister was born Susan was at the ripe old age of 47 years old not feeling as though she was ready for the cookie-clad forehead kissing granny title she decided to opt for the regal matriarchal title of grandmama which is how I have always known her I myself work as a legislative aide in the city of Berkeley, and I've heard many tear-filled proclamation acceptance remarks. After the ninth or tenth one, I become somewhat jaded towards them. It feels as though her final lesson to me was to find myself in their shoes."
Susan opening the Wandering Dog Wine Bar on Mission Drive in 2007 with a steadfast insistence on keeping the doors open until 8 p.m.. At the time, all wine bars were closing down shop around 5. It took a few years to catch on after an article was published in Santa Maria Times praising her foresight and solving beverage industry She told me, after about a month of that I thought we were crazy and going about it entirely the wrong way.
Even though she wasn't confident she persevered. Now rumor has it these days in Solvang you can even find places that stay open until 9 p.m. For those of you who have not yet heard, my grandmama passed away this morning. Today I walk the streets of Solvang with Susan's other grandchildren, my cousins as I had many times but today I would be remiss not to notice all the other things that I knew she loved about this town.
The kind people, the city having grown into itself over the decades of her residency and a place that people are proud to call home. Be it just for while visiting for Thanksgiving or for years of your life For those of you who are not privileged to know her in life, you may not know it but you will get to know her in death. Her life lives on through the experiences had on Solvang Third Wednesdays and the memories made through the Solvang Summer Concert Series, through a bolstered city sign ordinance and through a solving that continues to bring people together. Thank you for your time.
We're now at item number two for presentations by our lieutenant, Travis.
Well good evening Mr. Mayor, council members and I'm humbled to follow the presentation for a very deserving citizen of our community You have my condolences, but it sounds like she lived a wonderful life. This evening I'm here to present the 2025 statistics for crime reporting and calls for service in the City of Solvang. And I'd like to begin by saying thank you for your patience as we put this presentation together.
I plan to speak a little bit at the end about our transition from the UCR, the Uniform Crime Reporting System, to the National Standard Of NIBRS, which is an acronym standing for the National Incident-Based Reporting System. Which is the new standard by which crimes are reported to the FBI and in so doing through the California Department of Justice. One of the reasons this year's presentation has taken a little bit longer than I would have liked is we transitioned to this new NIBRS reporting system and our own internal report writing system in the last quarter of 2025. And those stats for those last three months had to be manually changed over to the previous reporting system of UCR based on crime type, because the two systems are not the same and they do not report the same statistics.
At the end of the presentation I'm going to talk a little bit more about that And give you information on why the two systems are different. But just to give you an idea, that's one of the reasons that this year's presentation is a little bit delayed. It's my intention going forward that this presentation will occur in February as opposed to April. We're trying for March but April was as soon as our data Unit was able to compile these statistics for me, so thank you.
If you would please go to the first slide this is our recap of the previous years and This year's stats again the part one crimes which will be going away as far as reporting standards Under the UCR these are your major crimes? These are the crimes such as robbery and homicide aggravated assault rape some circumstances of forgery and fraud But for the most part, these are serious crimes that were reported to the FBI.
You'll see we have an 8.2% decrease from 2024 to 2025 but when we have such low reporting numbers I think it's more apt to just look at the difference in call types. We had essentially five less serious crimes in 2025 compared to 2024 which is about a reduction of almost one per every other month. Traffic collisions remain on par, we have a two percent increase but that's really just an increase of one more traffic collision in 2025 and then calls for service. We remain around the same standard that we've seen in following slides will have more information on this but our calls for service this is where either this is initiated by members of the public calling for aid or our own deputies We saw a 3.2% decrease, which was a decrease of around 150 calls for service and we'll talk about that a little bit more later if we could have the next slide.
Can I ask you a question along the way?
Yes.
Is this within the footprint of Solvang or is this in the greater San Ynez Valley area?
Yes, Mr. Mayor thank you that's a great question sorry for not explaining this is specific to Solvang we are talking about within the contractual limits of Solvang and including what I understand would be the Solvang car initiated activity that may have started in Solvang but for instance some car stops don't happen right where the incident is observed it's where the car eventually stops but these stats were specific to the city of Solvange Moving on to Part 1 crimes. Here you see on the left hand side of this slide, this explains the old nomenclature for reporting serious crimes based on the uniform crime reporting statistics in the FBI. Again we have now transitioned to NIBRS and these will be all included in the NIBRS data but it's going to have a lot more than this and I'll explain that a little bit more later.
As you see, historically thankfully our homicides have been wonderfully low and all of our other crimes seem to be moving around the same kind of ebbs and flows. We remain low for all of these major crimes. The aggravated assaults might have seen a spike in 2025 but again I'd ask you to look at the numbers instead of the percentage Four more aggravated assaults compared to 2024, which is still down from the 2022 statistics. These can likely be associated with one maybe event that spills out into a street or perhaps an event that has a follow-on event when families and those kind of relationships are involved. If you move down to the property crimes that are also included in Part One Crimes, you'll see our burglaries did dip a little bit from 2024-25 with a dip of only three burglaries.
And I'll remind you the burglary crimes this is crimes where an individual enters a residence or a place of business with the intent to steal or commit another felony. This can also include vehicle burglaries which the big differentiation between a vehicle burglary And a theft from vehicle is whether or not the car's locked. So if you enter into a locked vehicle and steal something, it becomes a burglary.
And you see we do have a little bit of a dip and we're down from our highest five year stat which would be 14 back in 2022 Our larcenies have thankfully been on a downward trend. These are your regular thefts, thefts not from a person which would be a robbery but more of a theft from perhaps an open vehicle, theft of opportunity like a bicycle sitting at a campsite, a purse sitting in a shopping cart that's what the crime of larceny is and we've seen a thankful decrease in those crimes since 2021 downwards ending this past 2025 with 37. Motor vehicle theft, this is the actual taking of a vehicle for the last five years we've remained pretty much on average here no real big spikes no real big dips we have approximately three to six a year depending on the year this past year we had four And then arson, this is a crime that we partner with the Santa Barbara County Fire Department to investigate.
The fire investigators are themselves peace officers and they do the investigation of these and this past 2025 we had thankfully zero down from the high of two which again is historically low but in total you'll see our part one crimes Uh, are down five less part one crimes from 2024 but around par with 2023. And then we have our large part one crimes from 2021 and 22 that we continue to see us coming down for. Thankfully I got the next slide This is just a visual representation of our part one crimes over time. This is what I just talked about, you'll see that in 2021 and 2022 we're our highest and we continue to be looks like we're in a plateau of the 50 to 60 range on Part One crimes.
Again, this is another breakdown of those types. The material is there for your viewing if you'd like to take a look at this later. This is just another visual example by month of those Part 1 crimes. You'll see the blue represents January moving all the way to the green which represents December. And it's hard to put a cause on any one of these things based on part one crimes.
I don't know if we could specifically say what causes the spike from month-to-month, typically when the warmer months are in season we do see a spike Sometimes the crimes of violence, intimate not intimate crime but family violence and things like that when people are more likely to be outside and engaging with one another. But it's hard to put a pinpoint what month leads to what crime this is just a visual representation of that Moving on from our part one crimes, we're now looking at our calls for service. This is overall calls for service like I said earlier this is either members of the public calling for assistance from the sheriff's office or our own deputies initiating activity And we stay, we float around the 4,000 to 5,000 range. This is typical of the City of Solvang and I can't attribute it to any one thing more than another.
This year we just see a little bit of a dip but we're still floating around our historical average of about 4500 calls for service. And here you have our Part One crimes again. Did we go backwards in this slide?
One more question. What constitutes a call for service? What would be an example?
A call for service, thank you Mr. Mayor, would be any time a call is generated in our automated computer dispatching system, CAD, Computer-Aided Dispatch. So this would be a 911 call that comes in through our emergency dispatch service. There could be a non-emergency call that comes in through our non-emergency number where people are calling for a deputy's assistance. This could be anything, this could be someone calling for aid because they've been the victim of a violent crime. This could be someone calling because their neighbor's music is too loud. This could be people calling because they have a traffic concern.
Any one of those starts a call for service. Conversely, any time one of our deputies initiates activity over the radio like a traffic stop, a pedestrian stop, follow-on investigation, those are calls for service that are also tracked by the computer-aided dispatching. I've already addressed this slide if we could... Which brings us to the end of the presentation on crimes Before I take your questions, what I would like to do is address the difference in the NIBRS system, the UCR and what our agency is currently doing related to this. So like I said earlier several years ago, I believe it was 2022, the FBI put out guidance transitioning away from the uniform crime reporting statistics that have been the standard of law enforcement reporting for the last several decades.
We've now transitioned with our partners at the California DOJ into National incident based reporting system. And if the best way I can describe the difference between these two systems, while they sometimes capture the same info is The UCR asked us to pick the most serious offense and classify a crime as a type And what we know in law enforcement is sometimes crimes are not as simple as one singular crime that we can point at and say this is what happened. But based on UCR, we had to pick one and that would be the crime that we reported to the DOJ. While several other crimes might have been wrapped up in it, or maybe we filed multiple charges against an individual that included many of those crimes. Only one is reportable to the DOJ so it was not as complete, excuse me the FBI.
It was not as complete of a reporting system. What the NIBRS does is we now report all of the crimes at the same time even if there's more than one in an event. And it also tracks relationship of suspect to victim, it tracks demographic data, it tracks firearm use. So it's a much more complete picture of what crime we are reporting so that the Cal DOJ and FBI is able to put a better picture together of what's really happening in our communities.
So whereas the part one crimes as they used to be referred to under UCR included around 10 to 15 different serious crimes, NIBRS includes up to 50. Some things that used to be classified as Part 2 crimes are now NIBRS Group A and that's the big distinction. Part 1 and Part 2 is going away in law enforcement reporting. We're now classified as Group A and Group B. Group A being those most serious offenses but also some other serious but maybe not What we've traditionally referred to as serious crimes. Some forgeries are involved in Group A, fraud can be involved in Group A, some drug use is involved in Group A but all of these are now making up this much Bigger category that paints a bigger picture and next year when I come to speak to you, our report is going to look very different.
It's not going to be as just broken down as simple as robbery homicide arson it's going to have statistics about categories and how the relationship between individuals is reported that has created some problems for us when it comes to reporting to the cities in our monthly reporting and now our annual reporting as we try to reconcile this new system. Like I said, one of the delays was our statisticians had to physically go through the last three months of NIBRS data and figure out which one of those would have been reportable under UCR and put it into this presentation just so that I could give you an apples-to-apples presentation of what you're used to seeing. Next year it's going to look different.
We are As an agency, about to put out a press release in the very near future to the community and our various stakeholders throughout the county specific to NIBRS and why our statistics are going to look different in the coming months and coming year. And it will have a lot of the information I just gave you but it'll also be a lot more detailed and when that does come out, I'll let the city manager know and forward him a copy so that he can make it to council.
Lastly, on top of transitioning to NIBRS, one of the things that the Sheriff's Office did is we changed our entire report writing system over to a NIBRs-friendly system. And that has led to some IT difficulties as we port one system to another and start trying get this data collected. So our data unit is in the process of figuring out what is going to be reported to you based on our contract requirements and we want to be good partners with the city and give you the information you want, and that's just taking a little bit longer than we would have liked.
I am hopeful that we will have that data and it'll be easily accessible and reportable in the coming months. I think summer is a reasonable target and I'm hoping for that so with that concludes my presentation I'm happy to take your questions
2:15 – 2:2013 turns
Thank you.
Does this include the California Highway Patrol incidents?
Thank you, Councilmember. Through the Mayor, this does not include calls for service that are generated internally by the California Highway Patrol. It would include calls for service where we initiate activity on our own as it relates to calls for service that are then transferred over to the California Highway Patrol. For instance maybe a DUI or hit-and-run investigation that originated outside of the city limits But specific to the crime data, this is just the data within the Solvang City limits as investigated and reported to the Sheriff's Office.
Thank you
Thanks Travis, thanks for coming to see us. It's a little welcome result to see a suit instead of the armor that we usually see in uniform when they come to visit. I like both. Just question when we get the new version of the report understand this system is cut over but will we see data historic so we haven't seen you know much of late, and you've acknowledged why. But will we see kind of some retroactive perspective of what the new system produces over the last several months? I think you said three months data is going back but how far back will we see this in the new format?
Councilmember through the mayor when i referred to the three months i was referring to the last three months of 2025 as it related to this presentation. We are now completely transferred over to NIBRS, so we will have limited capability to look backwards. I don't know exactly to the extent that we can produce historical data going back to the implementation of NIBRs. I'd be happy to research that and get an answer to the City Manager for distribution but I can't speak to how far back we're gonna be able to look
Well, it'll speak to the trending that you're telling us because it is important to see whether we're you know where we're increasing or decreasing and the effectiveness of the kind of protection we're getting but It'll just be in from it. It'll be informative to know Now that we're moving towards more analytical assessment capability can we still seek a comparison to historic data?
Council Member through the Mayor, I know that our historical data is catalogued but it will be a very different report writing system. We'll still be able to see homicides compared to old homicides from our UCR reporting. I don't know specifically if it's going to be an apples-to-apples comparison because we're now gonna be collecting so much more data that incidents are gonna be classified differently whereas in the past A homicide that also potentially, and forgive me but sometimes homicides start with a rape. Well in the UCR reporting system that would be classified as a homicide. In the new reporting system we would capture both of that data and looking backwards at rapes versus homicides using the new information might be a little difficult because the new system will capture both crimes whereas the old system asked us to pick a crime So like I said, it might.
I don't expect it to be an apples-to-apples comparison of crime statistics but once I get real information from the data unit, I can push that through the city manager for a better answer to that question but that is my understanding right now.
And not to hold you to something, but what are your I.T. teams telling you is the cutover date that you'll have an active system?
Councilmember through the mayor we are our cutover date was in that fourth quarter of 2025. We are in the new system. We are just now trying to port the new system into our collection and reporting system as opposed to just Collection is a different system from reporting, which is done through our contracts office. The statistical data calls for service crime is done through the data unit and what we are doing now is merging those two sets to produce a reportable document for contract city.
Okay I do understand that strangely but okay so it's just reporting you have an operational tool you can run your team every day it's just getting datasets in a format that you've designed. Correct. Okay
How will this new NIBRS system enhance your safety here in the community?
As far as safety Mr. Mayor, the best way I could answer that is it's going to give us a more complete picture of the most serious crimes that we have going on in the city, which will allow us to perhaps know the bigger picture if we are tracking trends that need to be specifically addressed. We're gonna have a better idea of what those are as opposed to trying to fit a square peg into a round hole with the old system. It's just going to give those of us who monitor the data much better idea of what's occurring in town.
2:20 – 2:289 turns
Well, it also track for like burglaries in such as far as values and how much was lost or recovered for that matter. Does it help with that as well?
Mr. Mayor to answer your question I do believe it tracks that information as it relates to part the Part Group A crimes However, I am learning this system now too. I understand that some burglaries, some larcenies that are part of the group B crimes are only reportable when an arrest is made so not every burglary embezzlement forgery will be reportable and trackable but it will give us a much better idea of the overall crime and the seriousness of it and the ramifications from it.
Thank you Any questions for staff? Okay, thank you very much. Thank you. Appreciate it. Okay we're gonna
move to item three public communications would you enter that into the record please? At
this time you may address the council on items not on the agenda and on consent time limit is three minutes we will start with in-person public comments first
okay I have David Grubner to share with us. Thank you.
I wanted to come up here and honor Susan Williams, local business owner Robbie Hargreaves as well as the City Council for your efforts past present and future for cancer victims. I must start with a story many of which you may only know half of it in July of 2024 Then Mayor Mark Infante, now Councilman was approached with a very interesting request on the spot during the 4th of July parade by Robbie where Robbie on the spot asked them hey may I jump over you with a skateboard and I do not know what possessed Mark. It's part of the reason why I love him he said yes And talk about a cool way to support a local business.
I know it's one of the highlights of Robbie's life, which is going to matter here in a minute, as well as I know a lot of people in the crowd appreciated it. What you may not know is when Robby, I'm sharing this of my own volition. I just knew the story and thought it should be shared. When Robby was a year and a half he was diagnosed with a rare form of childhood cancer affecting only one of 250,000 children in the United States and his parents were told he's not gonna live past six years old. His dad had to sit him down when he was five and explain to Robby that he was gonna go to sleep and he was not gonna wait But in typical skater fashion, Robbie rebelled inside and said no way I'm gonna beat Cancer.
And ever since he was 12 Robbie has been in remission and decided, hey if I could do that, I'm gonna take on some other crazy tasks such as opening a skate shop here in Solvang where there was no skating scene. And even going beyond that he started a non-profit called Skating for Hope that seeks to reach out to families affected by cancer which I just think is the coolest thing ever especially as Solvang doesn't have a lot of things for kids And just wanted to mention, I know you guys are gonna be talking about ethics here later on. I wish you could stay for that but I gotta get home and I just wanna remind you that sometimes ethics is not about preventing the bad thing but encouraging the good thing and I would like to think that there is a kid out there now who is thinking, you know what?
Maybe I can beat cancer and one day jump over the mirror of Solvang so go for it guys, I appreciate you.
Thank you. Next is Denise Alamine
Hi, my name is Tadine Selamine. I am a resident of Solvang. I live in District 1 where the former mayor decided to run for District 1 so Mark Ifani is my district city council person We have in Skid Mesa, we have LLMD which is landscaping lighting maintenance It's a district. This LLMD was formed prior to homes being built in Skit Mesa by the Skits, that's what it's named after, Eddie Skit or his brother or his cousin Henry Skit So all of this was done way before they started building homes. In 2022 we hired, 2023 is when we got Randy and he had never been a city manager but he had been an HOA person up north where there were more people than our city so they brought him And with, and he is now our city manager.
So we pay and skip Mesa, we pay the regular property tax in the city gets that like everyone else does. But addition to that, we pay an extra $1,400 tax on our bill. We get this every year and this I'm being told by Randy the money can be used any way he sees fit. My problem here today is that they have, Randy or the city has hired a contractor by the name of Brightview.
They have been our contractor for years. They do substandard work and they have a contract and they don't follow it so when I call and talk to the city manager he tells me that there's nothing he can do about it So he told me in an email that I'll read when it becomes down to him, when you guys ask about his being hired again. But he told me that he would no longer talk to me about the LLMD, that I would need to bring it to City Council So that's why I'm here. I would like to have City Council to put me on an agenda so that we can have some accountability for a vendor, a contractor that you guys are paying out of money that 179 homes pay and that's why I'm here. So I'm hoping that Mark Afani who is over District 1 We will close it to public communications.
2:28 – 2:3616 turns
He's got a specific item. Thank you. So we're closing public communications and going on to city manager report.
Yes, thank you Mr. Mayor. I wanted to announce that tomorrow is my third anniversary with the city so thank you all, thank you to citizens of Solvang, thank you to council, thank you to staff for making it a very enjoyable tenure thus far. I hope to continue doing it until I decide I don't want to do it anymore three or five years from now. Other things, just pointing out agenda forecast or what's coming up on the agenda.
The next meeting we will be having a proclamation recognizing Public Works Week in May. There will also be a presentation about our waste management statistics from 2025. It'll be a discussion about Solvang Mesa LLMD And the following meeting, there'll be some follow-up to the conversation that has been had about the TUP. It's been a little bit controversial in a few circles and so we'll have an item on the agenda about that.
And looking a little bit further into May and June, we'll be bringing budget for the following fiscal years. So that's coming soon. And that's all I have for now.
Thank you. Any questions? I have a quick question. Are we bringing back all of the fee schedule or is
that a separate item? I think it might have been a cottage business was just saying, you know some of the fees are out of reach and we needed to make sure we got it
right. The fee schedule will come back as part of the budget overall budget presentation because that has to be done if any changes are done as part of a public hearing so it will be part of the budget presentation in June.
Okay thank you.
Okay thank you
we'll move on to item five if you'd read that into the report please
Government Code Section 532, 32.3 DA excuse me D aka AB 1234 and government code section 84308 aka SB 1439 report out. Ex parte communications council comments requests.
Thank you. Anybody want to lead off on any reports? Mr. Afonte.
Okay, so in the last week a couple of things we got into the Urban Growth Boundary Evaluation Committee had that meeting and had a presentation from LAFCO I was so impressed I watched a video of the LAFCO last LAFCO meeting That's boring as hell. Then Saturday night, I went to the Vandenberg Space Force Base and went to a dinner at the General's house based on his desire to meet the people from around the different areas.
That's it, thank you.
I want to congratulate our staff. We had a reduction in our risk liabilities and insurance from JPIA, and our rates were actually reduced for our risk management and liability issues. So thank you and congratulations, thank you to your team for that. And it only happens because you're doing safety along the way so I appreciate it. On April 16th I was at a SB SCAG meeting in Santa Maria and then there was a we had a on the 17th we had a Tri-Cities meeting for public safety that was Lompoc, Buellton and Solvang.
And then on the I was honored to give welcoming remarks to the California retired county employees Association who is meeting here as a state assembly. I felt a little bit like a carpetbagger because I was giving the welcoming remarks for Solvang in the Buelton Marriott. So, but there you have it. It was a pleasure to be there and part of that group. And then I understand that Sandy Mullins the following day educated the group about the Elver Hoy Museum and so it's a good follow-up.
I was with Mr. Affanti at the Urban Growth Boundaries meeting on the 23rd and the Civic Leaders Open House on the 25th at Vandenberg Space Force Base. On the 24th, I was at a career day for Kermit King Elementary School in Paso Robles. Yesterday I had the pleasure of representing the city at the Olive Crest HOPE program for rehabilitation and recovery It's an amazing program that they have for these young ladies.
Okay, let's go to item number six please if you'd read that into the record.
Consent is for routine administrative city matters and is approved with one motion these items are discussed only on request of council members. Members of the public were afforded an opportunity to speak during the public communications portion of this agenda
Thank you. Any changes to our agenda or anything that needs additional review? If not, a motion to accept this would be fine.
I'll make a motion to accept and approve the consent item 6A through 6F. I'll second it.
Thank you, it's been properly moved and seconded for approval of items 6A through F. Roll call please.
Roll-call vote Passed 4–0 moved and seconded for approval of items 6A through F. Roll call
Show transcript
2:36 – 2:4320 turns
motion passes 5-0
thank you moving on to item 7 public hearing if you'd read that into the record please
public hearing to consider adoption of resolution 26 13 12 approving the fiscal year 26 27 list of projects to be funded by the SB 1 road maintenance and rehabilitation account RMRA
Thank
you. Good evening, Council. This public hearing is for the SB1 Road Repair and Accountability Act of 2017 and this is predominantly for the revenue that is distributed through Caltrans to cities and counties across the state for road maintenance and rehabilitation through the RMRA account It's based on population and this year the city will receive approximately $158,400. That's not exact yet it's distributed monthly over the course of the year And for that project as such, for the requirements of SB 1 we have to designate a project and how we will be spending that money.
And for the city, we have a pavement management program And that program uses a software called Street Saver, which helps us program and track our inventory. We record work history. We help use it to establish different priorities and budgets and estimates for optimizing our funds as well for our pavement management or our pavement network. Based on that program, we have allocated fiscal year 2026-2027 to a slurry seal maintenance project in area one of the pavement management program. This year we're doing some of the slurry prep work in our annual road maintenance project and then next year we'll be doing the slurry sale.
This resolution, obviously the project will cost a lot more than $158,000 but we will be using all the money that we receive for our MRA funds to support that capital improvement project. That is the staff report.
Anybody have any comments or concerns?
I was just curious, you listed area one. How many areas are there in the city?
There are nine.
Nine? So we'll go through this every year then with a different area? Is that kind of the plan?
We alternate between maintenance, like a slurry sill is more of a maintenance project and then like a heavier road rehab project each alternate year. So we go through the process of basically yeah I mean it's basically one area if we have enough funds to do more than one area we will yeah.
Where is Area 1?
I'm not sure if this is a 7A or 7B question.
That goes with 7B. Okay, I'll wait. Sorry.
Okay. I'm going to open it up to public comment.
You could use the magic words and say open the public hearing because this is a public hearing item. Thank you.
Thank you hearings and how are they different than comment for the public? It's still three minutes. It's still
yes
okay all right thank you um i have one person on the list here uh Denise Alameen
Hi, I've been attending a lot of the City Council meetings and I do look online a lot. Who selects the areas that get first approval? And do you have a list of all of the areas that you've done in the last five years because if I am remembering when we had a big rain, the Allisaw Road washed away and that road got a lot of priority and it got prepared. We need to Move it along so that all of the city of Solvang is treated equally and that we, all of our roads are repaired. I live off of Chalk Hill but I drove Alamo-Pantano the other day and there are big holes. I see them working out there now but there needs to be some type When you come and give your presentation, you could tell us in 2024 which area was done and which one you're planning to do in 2026 or 2027.
I think that's something that the public is entitled to and it would be really nice if you would bring that in your report so that we would know when our area... First of all, I'd like to know what area I'm in And when, what year will my area be up for consideration for the money or the repairs? Either one. The big one, the large one, or the small one. Thank you.
Thank you. Is anybody on Zoom that wishes to comment? Anybody else in the room? Okay we will close it for public hearing Well, it says here public comment on my notes so we're going to cross that out. It's closed and I want to bring it back to council for discussion. I have a question Bridgette how does this funding amount is it standard or is it consistent with previous years?
2:43 – 2:489 turns
We're spending more money moving forward because of our pavement management program and the work that was done in that to establish priorities with the various roads and areas that were identified in the pavement management program. In previous years, the city spent about $600,000 a year on road projects. This year for the Alamo-Pentado Road project rehab project which also includes other areas of the city because we were able to get good pricing on those areas will be just shy of three million dollars so It's a substantial difference and it's due to the fact that within our pavement management program, we were able to establish kind of an average budget that we should shoot for to maintain a PCI of our current PCI of 59 for the city's roads.
And the PCI is basically, it's a pavement index that is used to kind of rank the road's conditions
Thank you. I was really looking for that number, this funding that we received this year of $158,000. Has that been consistent for the past?
Oh yes, it goes up a little bit.
One quick question. It was
brought up by the speaker that we should be able to see
The roads that have been repaired, what's going on, what the future plans are. Isn't that on the site? Don't we have it on the website someplace?
I'd have to look at the website to know if we have that on there or not. I'm not sure.
Okay but I think it would be advisable to present that when we're bringing this in like me. I didn't know how many areas we had Thank you.
To answer that and the speaker a moment ago, the pavement condition report was done about two years ago right before Roger Olds left and presented to that where it's for the 59 pavement condition index PCI was given. Pavement condition rating is very much like your grade in school so 59 technically is F because it's below 60 The goal ideally would be to get up into the 70 to C range, but unfortunately that takes a lot more money than we have available. So just to stay at the 59 is a lot of money. We're putting like Bridget pointed out a few million dollars in it this fiscal year.
About $1.8 million next fiscal year in road treatment maintenance. Some of the work we're doing this year is preparation for work that it will be doing next year. The funding is not always consistent. Other priorities can change, so typically it's not a good idea to make promises about which roads you're going to pave two or three five years from now because priorities change, funding changes. We obviously do our best and the goal would be Within a reasonable period, and engineers would know better than I what that rate, what that cycle is. Typically over a 20-year period you'll do something on every road surface throughout the city but that doesn't mean that every year every road gets to treatment it's just not feasible economically possible So the goal is certainly, and we can put a map if we don't have one up.
We'll have one for what the zones are but for committing which zones we will do next year or when we might get to the zone in Skip Mesa again priorities change things happen Thank you.
2:49 – 2:5414 turns
Any other questions? If not, I would entertain a motion on this item.
Well, then I will make a motion to adopt resolution 26-1313 approving the measure A five year local program.
Sorry that's the next one. Yeah
we're on 1312. Okay so I will make a motion to adopt resolution number 26-1312 approving the list of projects to be funded by SB 1 road maintenance and rehabilitation account
Thank you. And I'll second it. It's been properly moved and seconded to approve Resolution 26-1312. Roll call, please.
Roll-call vote Passed 4–0 moved and seconded to approve Resolution 26-1312. Roll call,
Show transcript
Motion passes 5-0.
Thank you We will be
moving on to item 7B if you'd read that into the record please
Public hearing to consider adoption of Resolution 2613.13 approving the Measure A five-year local program of projects for fiscal years 26, 27 through 30, 31. Thank
you. Staff report please.
On November 4th, 2008 the Santa Barbara County approved the road repair traffic relief and transportation safety measure. This is commonly known as Measure A and it's a half a percent retail tax that is dedicated to construction maintenance repairs and rehabs of the existing roads and bikeways for within the county The measure is controlled by the Santa Barbara County Associations of Government and they provide an estimate each year for the appropriation of those funds, the revenue that is received.
And we received our next five years estimates for those funds roughly from $474,269 in this next fiscal year to five years down the road, $547,165. So Mark it goes up a little bit on this one for the Measure A tax revenue. And to ensure transparency of these funds, we are required to present that to the City Council in the form of a resolution and then once it is approved by you, we submit that to SBK who will complete the program of projects for all the member agencies.
This staff report is for that resolution and there is an attachment, which Councilman Arona has a question about. That is submitted to SBCAG for the funding. It basically kind of lays out how we will be spending that revenue for our projects. And again, the revenue that we receive through Measure A and the revenue that we received through SB 1, I mean in total it's about $600,000 which is what we've been spending in the past for these road repair projects but we intend to use more local funds to have a larger project Are we blending these
We have area one and city parking lots in both of these items on the agenda. So are we funding it through? Maybe I don't understand, explain that if you would.
Yeah, so for this next year's annual road maintenance project we'll be doing the area one which is identified in the pavement management program. And then in addition to that we're going to do some slurry seal of the parking lots and it just depends on the assessment that we do for the parking lots to see what will be required of those. The parking lots are not included in our pavement management program currently
Even though it's listed on the project, I guess you can see why I'm questioning. It's the top project title from the last item to get the two blended. The slurry seal area one and public parking lots 1 through 4 in Veterans Memorial Hall. It's tiny font print but it's there.
2:54 – 3:0118 turns
So the slurry seal in area one is probably going to be, it'll exceed both of these funds for the project itself as you can see we the budget that we're projecting for Thank you.
627, will we plan that slurry seal in the Vets Hall parking lot when the Senior Center is done with their construction work so that we're not driving heavy trucks over that fresh seal?
We would plan to do the slurry seal in the spring. I don't know what the...
I think they're still looking at fall.
They're shooting for September, October to be complete so it'd be six months or so after that is done.
Okay that's perfect
I just wanted to add that, as Bridget pointed out, these two measures are woefully inadequate for all the work that needs to be done. And the additional funding is coming from Measure U, Measure E and possibly some general fund.
Okay. And mostly this resolution is For the benefit, if you will, of SCAG and their transparency in reporting. Would that be a fair statement?
Yes, specifically for the revenue that's allocated to us through them.
So they just need to show where it's going to go?
Exactly.
And that's what the plan shares with us and even though we're showing this is still our discretion if we have an emergency issue or something else so we need to reallocate time and resources
1. Denise Alameen
Hi, I am just a regular resident. So I might not reach common sense. I may have a little less so I'm very confused. When we when I talked to last you said that you cannot forecast which areas you're going to be doing, but you have a forecast of money that's really not enough to do one area, complete that. And then you said that another company is gonna give us a little bit of money also and you have set aside four, I don't know if you call them areas or whatever you call those additional four lots. Excuse me, lot one two three four which as a residence I have no idea where lot one two three and four is and I don'y know why we use a lot of acronyms and numbers here when we could just give an address and that way I would know exactly what you were talking about However, my question to you is that when we're talking about Area 1 and laying out who would be next, you said it was impossible to do that.
But when we go with the other vendor that's given the money, you seem to know that we're going to do lot one, two, three, four. So I just would like consistency on your reports to if you're going to do, if you don't know what you're going to do. You don't know what you're gonna do with anything. If you do know what you're going to do then all of us should be able to know what you're going Whether you have enough money or not, you have to have someplace in mind either the street you're going to fix or either the lot you're going to fix who's coming up next. I just can't believe that you have money and that you meet twice a month and you have no idea what order the repairs are going to be in. So like I said, I'm coming as a resident with less than common sense.
So I would like to see if we can get the reports a little less so that people like me can understand them. Thank you.
Thank you. Any other public comments on Zoom? No? Okay, we'll bring it back. Mr. Murphy, you had a question?
I just wanted to point out the comment about not knowing what we're doing in the future was beyond next year but right now we're talking about the projects we're going to do next year. We know the funding we should have. We know what we intend to do but that could also change There's a reluctance on my part to say two years from now we're going to do those streets or that area, then three years from now we'll do this. Because once you create the expectation then if you have to make a change people get upset. So the idea is we're budgeting, we're talking about what we're doing next year and we have a reasonably good safe idea that we're gonna have these funds, we'll have the ability to do those projects But so to answer the issue, the question about the lots.
Lot one is the one over by Berkholm Bakery. Lot two is the one by Solvang Park. Lot three is the one across the street from Paula's Pancake House. Lot four is the one over here on Copenhagen or sorry Oak Street. Lot five is the lot right next to City Hall. So to answer those questions if anybody had them
Thank you. We are, our public hearing is now closed and we'll bring it back to council for discussion and or a
motion. I'll move that we adopt resolution 2613 13 approving the five-year local program of projects for fiscal years 26 27 through 30 31.
3:01 – 3:0711 turns
Thank you. It's been properly moved and seconded to approve or adopt Resolution 26-13. Roll call, please.
Roll-call vote Passed 4–0 moved and seconded to approve or adopt Resolution 26-13. Roll call,
Show transcript
Motion passes 5-0
Okay, we're now
moving on to item 8A. If you'd read that into the record please, Madam Clerk?
Discussion and public comment on wastewater treatment plan upgrade notice of intent to apply for financial assistance through United States Department of Agriculture, excuse me, Agriculture Rural Development Rural Utilities Service.
Thank you. Staff report please.
Thank you Mr. Mayor, good evening everyone I will be pinch hitting for Jose he's on the disabled list tonight this item before you tonight is a requirement of USDA we intend to borrow funds from them to help pay for the wastewater treatment plant upgrade that needs to be done As has been discussed before, there are repairs and upgrades that need to be done so that we can maintain compliance with our waste discharge requirements.
The project is estimated right now to be at $18.5 million. That number has moved some, as you recall it was a little less than that. We were going to do reclaimed water and that was taken out of the project, and then we were gonna also upgrade the administration building. And due to increases in cost, inflationary and otherwise, then that number exceeded $20 million. So we've scaled the project back down to just be more specific to the needs of the plant to maintain compliance with again as I said the waste discharge requirements We have secured a $1 million congressionally disrected spending from Congressman Carbajal's office, so hopefully that means we only need to borrow $17.5 million USDA loan is Anticipated to be the term of up to 40 years at an interest rate of approximately 4.75%, resulting in estimated annual debt services of just under a million dollars, $983,000.
Final loan terms will be established by the USDA at the time of loan approval. As I pointed out when I started talking, the USDA's loan process does require us to notify the public so that's the purpose of this discussion tonight and a notice of intent to file an application was published in the local paper and notification if anybody had any questions or comments they could be here tonight to discuss that and do that in the during this meeting.
So the staff recommendation is, and this is an administrative process at this point there's no requirement or you know definitive statement that we're going to borrow the money it's just part of the process in order to be able to do that borrowing as And we will investigate any other options, but USDA typically has the best rates and also as a longer term most of these commercial loans and bonding that we might otherwise do to fund this would be for a shorter period of time which would actually increase annual amount. So with that I'll attempt to answer any questions.
So for clarification, we're not negotiating a financing instrument here. We're basically trying to notify or let people know that we can make application with USDA and have that as an option to us for financing the Wastewater Treatment Plant. Is that correct? A summation?
Yes, Mayor Brown. Thank you that basically the regulations for the RUS funding require two things that are kind of a touchstone to the public one is to file this notice of intent to excuse me to publish a notice of intent to file an application with the USDA and then the second is to hold a public meeting about the project so that the public has opportunity to come ask questions learn about the project etc We've issued that notice of intent to file the application, and then this is that public meeting opportunity for the public to learn about the project. So at this time there's no action to approve a loan, there's no action that you're taking if and when we were going to apply.
And if and when we get an opportunity, like they agree to fund us then that would come back for actual approval with the council at that time. So this is just a procedural step required by the federal regulations for this particular loan program.
Thank you for the clarification.
It does not preclude us from trying to find another alternative funding source? Correct. Thank you.
3:07 – 3:1317 turns
When we apply, are we only applying under the terms that are disclosed here for a 40-year term, for example? Are there variances in what USDA would end up offering us?
I think it's just the 40-year term.
Yeah, I believe it's actually a 38-year loan but yes that's their standard process if we wanted to go more conventional then we could do that like I said we've talked to lenders about it 4.75 was the rate from a few weeks ago it obviously depends on what the Fed does to the prime rate which then could potentially affect that amount
Yeah, not negotiating. I understand we're not but if it does sort of stovepipe our path right through the USDA application process and we couldn't move to a shorter term loan for example is that what we're agreeing to?
Tonight you're not agreeing to anything. We're just holding a public meeting so the public can learn about the project.
Okay, so we could do another public hearing if we wanted a shorter term.
Staff's preparing the environment, finalizing the environmental requirements because we had to evaluate the project under CEQA which we already did a few years ago. And then now since we're seeking federal funding, we're evaluating under the national version of CEQA, NEPA. So they're finalizing that and then I think that's like the last piece for the application package and then they'll submit the application With the terms that are in the staff report, but doing that I you can still go search out other funding options because the actual Loan agreement and documentation that will come back at a later date for your approval after we get our application process with the USDA So there's gonna be another bite to like actually pull the trigger and say you want to do this.
Okay Sorry one more question random question. What is our what is our credit rating for the City of Solvang?
We haven't formally been rated, but in talking with a finance individual that I know he suggested we would be AA. But again there's a formal process to go through to get the rating and that would normally if you're going after a bond. but he suspected it would be because we have good credit, we've got plenty in reserves overall for the general fund. So that was his speculative educated guess.
Ms. Smith?
I was just going to ask so all of this is like set for when we get the approval do we have any idea when that's gonna happen? Are we looking at six months are we looking
What I do know is that the emails that I've had from the USDA suggest that if we don't apply by May 1st, so Friday this week, which I literally just found this out a couple of weeks ago. That the funds that have been allocated to California can be pooled and distributed to other states, which may mean that it's possible that they don't have the $17.5 million balance left in the California fund for us to be able to fund this and we would have to wait another year.
I've been in contact with the Congressman's office and there is a way we can guarantee that we would have some funding available, but that would require this NEPA process that Chelsea just pointed out to be completed and we've submitted it so it's just a matter now of USDA to say it's complete and then we can apply for the loan. But that doesn't mean we have to take the loan
Okay, I'm going to open it to public comment. I do have one slip for this for Denise Alameen.
Okay, I've lived in Solvang for over 12 years and we've been out of compliant with our wastewater for a long time and we've been at this step many years before We have one of the highest water bills in this valley. And you're talking 17, 18 million dollars for a loan but I have not heard yet how much an average resident's bill will be going up if you make a loan somebody has to make a payment and I would like to know how much of that $18 million is going to be added to my $350 water bill every month.
Water is, we're paying more than the valley. Why? We have the same water. This thing has been out of compliance for years so yes if you keep deferring it for another year yes your price is going to keep going up I think that's It's pretty simple, because I know that. So please in your next report since this is for the public if you could just say how much the public will be paying for this it would be really nice.
Thank you.
Thank you. Mr Murphy?
You want to close public comment first
The repayment of the loan was already factored into the rates that are currently being paid.
3:14 – 3:1910 turns
That the rates are scheduled to go up. The sewer rate's 15% on July 1st, that's the sewer portion of the bill and the water rate I believe it's 5%. Wendy is not in here right now. So the rates are published on our website what they will be going to And so those amounts for the loan have already been factored into a rate that was assuming we were borrowing. The $17 million when they did this great study the last time, five almost well four plus years ago.
The rates will need to continue to go up because costs of operation or fuel or electricity all those things are going continue to go up we're actually beginning a process very soon We will look at the rates and we'll be convening a city resident committee to similar what we've done with the urban growth boundary committee. That will be putting a call out for residents to volunteer, sit on that committee soon but Question, the loan repayment is already factored in and we should only be looking at other CPI type of related cost increases as well as other repairs that need to be done to the treatment plant. And I would like to point out for the record that we are not out of compliance, we haven't been out of compliance There are new standards, but we're negotiating with the Water Quality Control Board to give us a different way of measuring it.
But we've not been cited. We've not been required to conform. It's just a process we go through and to the extent We ignore those requirements once they are official. We run the risk of $10,000 a day fine for non-compliance so we're not there yet. We've not been there since before I was here.
Thank you for the clarifications any questions?
I have a question on that, Randy. Just highly sensitive to the continuous increases for residents in their costs and I think everyone knows that costs seem to be our costs are ever increasing so we're in this vicious window of time. Loan or the debt service associated with a loan is, it's $1 million a year roughly. It was 989,000 per year, is that correct? Because it doesn't say per year but I assume it's per year for 40 years that's 39 million dollars you're saying we factored that in already to our water rate increases? That's my understanding yes. I don't remember hearing that number.
I never heard the 40 million dollar number
Well, I wasn't here when the rates were discussed the last time so I can't.
Can we just verify that to make sure we're not... We don't misguide? Okay. That's paying twice as much. This is where I've got the heartburn. We're paying twice as much. We're doubling the cost in that loan structure of the rebuild It's $18 million, but we're going to pay 40. Assuming we don't
pay off and we don't have grants or other things through this is just debt there are still opportunities for grants and things of that nature good if there's no other questions will advise that we have received and file this discussion item Discussion
regarding potential copyright and trademark assets and enforcement.
For consistency, I'm going to refuse myself for this conversation for pretty much the same reasons and because I do own a trademark. So with that being said, I am going to pass it to the Mayor Pro Tem. And if you'd call me back when you're finished with this conversation.
Absolutely.
Thank you.
3:19 – 3:2711 turns
Starting to get used to this. So, City Attorney would you like give the staff report?
I would be delighted to. Mayor Pro Tem, thank you very much good evening everyone this item is to discuss potential well discuss the city's potentially copyrightable and trademarkable assets and get direction from the City Council on whether they would like staff to pursue registering any of those assets or um and if and if so or in kind of in conjunction I guess any sort of enforcement plan with respect to our intellectual property that the City Council might want to direct staff to develop.
We left the staff report fairly open-ended because this is kind of a big policy discussion, we didn't want to steer the ship one way or the other what we've outlined in the staff report is kind of a basic primer of what counts you know what is a copyright where the rights attach what assets we think It might apply to same with trademark. You know, should more direction be given certainly there would be more work to be done to actually register any trademarks or copyrights and you know certainly I didn't include every aspect of copyright laws. I didn't want to give you all a treatise.
make it a, you know, a digestible amount of information. So if there are details that you want to go into I'm happy to answer those to the best that I can and, you know, I think just as far as like a framework I think there's As I lay out in the staff report, there's a lot of enforcement benefits that come with registration because we can actually have standing to sue in federal court to enforce that copyright. However short of that even if we didn't register a copyright or a trademark, we can still send people a letter saying hey stop using our marketing assets or whatever it is There's going to be some deterrent value to that and some people are gonna say, oh you know okay I'll stop because you know I realize now that I'm using your material.
We wouldn't you know there's a limit to how much we can enforce compliance if we do that without actually registering trademarks. There is also You know there's a, you've got to think about the amount of staff time and resources you want to focus to this. Private companies such as you know Kellogg or some of those bigger Coca-Cola I mean they have whole teams that all they do is watch out for and enforce copyright.
Clearly we're not going to be able to do that just from a resources perspective to that degree however you know I think the direction that we could get from you is if and when we learn of, how much do you want staff to proactively search for copyright infringement? And then if and when we learn of it, if it's organically or however, what kind of actions do you want staff to take to do about that. So there's kind of a range of Policy choices here. I don't want to repeat what's in the staff report in terms of outlining what a copyright is and a trademark, because it is there and I'm happy to answer questions about it if anything was unclear or you want more detail on those issues. Maybe I'll just stop there because I do want it to be a discussion.
We can answer questions, make sure we do public comment. Okay so I have a
couple of
You register your intellectual property. You find somebody misusing it, you're going to go after it. Part of trying to claim damages is do you always have to show some sort of economic damage? Like you missed out on sales because they made their sales themselves? Is that
part of what you need to claim? Yes and no. So if you register your copyright like right at the get-go and then the infringement happens after you have a registration, you can get statutory damages and that just means Like the statute says, you get X number of dollars for this violation. You don't have to prove actual damage and damages to like your business or that they made money when you should have. You don't have to make those showings. You just get what the statute already says and there's ranges for different infringement.
This is where it gets a little confusing I think because you have to be registered to even get into court. Prerequisite, but let's say somebody violated a copyright and then you went and got registered. And then you sued them for that pre-registration violation. Then you have to prove actual damages. You don't get the benefit of the statutory damages so that there's like us a world where you're proving actual damages But if you register and the violation happens after registration, then it's the statutory damages So that's a lot easier to showing to make
My second question is, the reason why we're also asking these questions is because maybe at some point we feel that our assets are being used in an improper way. I'm going to come up with an example. Maybe somebody's using material to make it look like it's communication or promotion that comes from the city. Are there alternatives Remediate that, say you know is it can you claim damages for them impersonating a governmental agency? Do you have other legal resources to go after I
mean if they're committing other crimes besides or like other legal violations besides copyright infringement like certainly there would be other avenues. It's hard to answer something like that in the abstract but Because impersonating a government official or something is a very different action than copyright infringement. But just because something involved copyrighted work but there was some other legal violation, unregistered copyright wouldn't negate another remedy if there was some other violation.
As far as enforcement in a court for copyright infringement, it's always in federal court because it has been preempted by federal law. You do have to have registration to do that. What we can do without registration, with or without registration is send people a letter saying stop using our assets. There are copyrighted material whether we've registered them or not so we can tell them to stop using it. It's just backing that up in court you got to register the copy. Often I think these things get negotiated like if you just want them to take it down or stop using it right?
There's nothing stopping us from sending them a letter and continuing to send them a letter, but the actual legal remedy for copyright infringement is going to be in federal court. Did
we do an
actual
contract
review of the
3:27 – 3:3819 turns
Agreements that would generate content of this nature, that would in theory be something we would think about copywriting. Did we look at where we have gaps or where were covered so that we because when it's created we have legitimacy and claiming copyright?
So our template professional services agreement has a provision that says any of the deliverables or materials created under the contract is the city's copyright.
There's no gap we have and that's true for our social media and our press release teams as well
I know there's a few instances, for example with some software providers where we've modified that because we're using their software but they're not going to give us
the copyright
for their software just because they create a deliverable for us out of it, right? So there's some unique instances like that where we have modified the language to take in account the specific service that's being provided and the circumstances there. And that's very fair I think in that instance. But for something like a marketing team contract where they're creating content for us to put on our marketing website, that's going to be on our regular professional services agreement. The contract says, you know, our regular terms say that anything like that is going to the copyright goes to the city.
Okay second question I'm gonna go down the list of the potential things that you guys listed for the property assets intellectual property assets. I'm gonna skip a few things that I don't think are that important did anybody call The gentleman who gave us the city logo, the windmill logo. Did we confirm there would be nothing in
the way?
best practice ownership of that
content? It was a use agreement with him. I don't recall the specifics, Dave Fleishman is actually one who composed that but it gives us the right to use it but no, I don't recall that it gave us a right to trademark anything.
No, it's a non-exclusive use agreement so if you know that would be something the city could direct staff to do would be to go you know investigate whether he would be willing To sell that version or versions of the logo to us. I mean, I understand that image is part of his business logo too. So...
Which I advise against but everybody said well everybody's going to use it anyway so Wow!
Okay. I think it's a little bit different, but we'll come back to that. So this last question did... so I know I gave you guys some feedback. Did you do any research on whether we consider tourism commerce?
Yeah, so I did work with an associate and that's a good question because you know it's really obvious when you have like merchandise with city swag on it. You know like Beverly Hills think of that they have that shield logo on all kinds of things that they sell and they definitely have that trademarked So we did do some more research on other cities and there is You know, it's not as clear but there's definitely some examples for trademarks of slogans or logos that are kind of for like a marketing or public relations purpose. A lot of them are like from you know maybe like the Chamber of Commerce as opposed to... Like you think of Las Vegas which this is in California but you know what stays... What happens in Las Vegas stays in Las Vegas.
That's a The City of Las Vegas doesn't hold that, it's a quasi-public. Private entity that also owns some venues in the city. That's what holds that trademark, but they the purpose and the classification for it talks about marketing of Las Vegas. Similarly Beverly Hills has a service mark of their shield kind of one of their their shield that they grouped it with Retail store services and like kind of in you know, like key chains and things like that. But it also includes like a tourism services aspect where they have they also have one for Kind of more education based where they've described it's for like, you know public education programming and things like that So there are there is some basis for trademarking Kind of like a slogan based on a A tourism marketing concept.
I hesitate to say that like we can actually definitely do that because I'm not a trademark attorney, I don't want to you know get out over my skis on that but it does seem that there's some precedent for that and that could be that would be something that staff could investigate potentially maybe even with outside counsel in that specialty.
Okay, so I'm going to ask another question then just to confirm. So we can go that direction when we get to discussion. So when you said it won this the reports claims that the slogan the Danish capital of America Would not be eligible for trademark in this example because we don't really the city doesn't sell goods or services. So ignore goods. We're not really in the business of selling hats everybody else does that right so that's not the question it's really but we are selling A service of tourism if we weren't selling that or in that business, we wouldn't be spending a couple million dollars a year to promote The city of Solvang, two outside visitors. So I'm just saying do you have an opinion for us on...
Do you agree with that as then now being something we should consider is eligible?
So I think, you know in the staff report it's all going to be very fact specific and so based on what we know now it's not like clearly eligible to me because we're not marketing. Like you know we're not saying we're gonna distinctly provide this good like a coffee mug with Solvang on it or um you know we have you know the Chamber of Commerce provides you know certain services to business and things but it's not Totally clear what the city's doing service-wise other than having information on their website.
And so I think, I hesitate to say like we can like it is eligible for a trademark but it's something that we could investigate and you know we drilled down into it more based on your question and I appreciate that Because the way that this, the language in the statute reads is it you know market and commerce and sales. And that on its face sounds very doesn't sound like just mark you know general tourism advertisement without like a you know a link to come buy something from the city. Yeah. And so what I don't know and what I think we would need to get, you know, Trademark Council opinion on would be like does it is it enough that we link to the hotels to, you know, get them to book in Solvang? I don't know and you know I'm looking at...I can see what like Beverly Hills has on the U.S.
Patent and Trademark Office and you know the things that they've submitted Um, because you can submit like samples and it's pictures of their website or you know pictures of brochures that they put out the promote things in Beverly Hills. So it seems like that some of this could be really analogous to what Solvang does. But then there's other cities where I'm like, I don't even know how that got through because it doesn't seem to be selling anything. And so again, I'm not a trademark attorney so I'm hesitating to tell you exactly but...
Just bringing it to simple perspective. I asked the question in an email to Chelsea because it just felt like no, we do have an expectation of selling something when people come to visit Slavang. We absolutely do. That's what funds our general fund so we do have an expectation that someone is coming here to transact something and then when we go further to direct visitors to the website to a hotel for a booking I don't know how we argue that it isn't an expectation of commerce.
That's all. I just wanted to point out there were some questions around what was in the
report. Again, I'm trying to distill it down so I appreciate the questions ahead of time because then I can help expand and drill more deeply into things I know are issues for you all. You know, as far as whether what we're doing counts as using the mark in commerce. I don't, what I don't know is that you know there's a really generic description for example in Beverly Hills as trademark thing that they're using it for promoting tourism and things like that but i don't know if the city of Beverly Hills is offering some like specific service for a fee that is tied to that right versus just promoting the city and then people come and buy things from other third parties.
And so that's just like the facts that I don't have tonight, you know to tell you that level of detail. But it we could and part of that is because I don' want to get out of head of direction of the whole council but if that's something we want the council would like staff to investigate we will do that.
Is collecting taxes considered commerce? Yeah, I mean it's because it's very different. You know the city gets revenue from people staying at the hotels or sales taxes but you know I don't think anybody would say that collecting taxes is a form of It's an important but subtle point because then we shouldn't spend public money promoting the city. We shouldn't have marketing contracts if all we're doing is
3:39 – 3:4514 turns
putting profit into separate businesses?
Well, I'm not saying that there's no benefit to promoting the city. That's how we fund it but it's very different from selling tickets for an experience which is not really what we do.
Just backing up, I'm not making policy decisions by any means but you have to decide what perspective you want to take on the IP question 2. Do we have more of a, do you have more proprietary concern about people using it and wanting to make sure that we the city controls how people use it or is it more of Like the more people use the city's stuff and it's out there, and the more people see it that that's the goal.
And I don't know the answer to that question but I think deciding that perspective might inform how you want to approach the intellectual property piece of it.
Yeah well this is just my opinion. I think it's fair to think there could be a scenario where we want to have the tools You know, file grievances and more aggressively say you need to stop using this intellectual property. But I don't see the staff taking the time to proactively go out there and Enforce that nobody else but the city is using our city assets and I don't know, maybe we do want to invest on I don't think any of us would mind.
worth it I think. I'm not discarding, not registering it just to have the tools to do something about it if we need to but I don't see us actively going out there and protecting city you know intellectual assets yeah.
Let me ask this if I may. Have we ever had an issue with this in the past?
Not to my knowledge other than recent discussions with the Solvang Passport app.
If we wanted to copyright or trademark some of the items in the city, what does that cost per item to establish that copyright or trademark?
So there's some pricing in the staff report, but the actual application fee is pretty minimal. A lot of them are under $100 and it depends on what you are copywriting whether it's a photo or a video or what have you.
The cost is probably more the vendor
doing
the copywriting or having somebody doing it. That's going to be the demand power to do it.
Yeah, and for the trademark of the slogan I would probably recommend that we have a like an actual trademark attorney look at that because that's a little more factually complicated. Maybe it's one that we could make sure somebody isn't using it. Well, that would be a policy decision to do that or not. I mean you could say we want to have staff time policing this and like watching social media, watching the internet to try to watch YouTube or whatever.
Or you could just say we want to register these things so if and when it comes to our attention that someone's using our assets in a way that we don't like We have the tools to enforce at that time. I think there's a...
If we get into a situation with a business in town, That we are promoting or not promoting. And they want to use something in the city's trademarked, well in the city's image inventory. Do they have to ask permission? Can they just use it? What is the business
model? Well, that could be a discussion point or decision point for the City Council as well. Like you own the copyright for it and so if you want to You know Under the law they need your permission to use it If they use it without permission then it's up to you whether you want to try to enforce it and tell them not to If you wanted sue them about it, then we have to register right but you also can give You know, you can give permission. You can make people pay to use it if you want to or you can say no we want anybody can use it for X, Y and Z reasons and give kind of a blanket general license for use. There's also exceptions to the copyright I know.
She's a cartoon, so you know they're just because we hold it or we have the the registration of it doesn't mean we could still let people use it but technically they would need our permission.
3:45 – 3:5110 turns
And so if they didn't ask our permission, I mean it's like you were saying. If somebody's got a website and they want to say I went to Solvang and here is an image of Solvang that we use, I don't know if they're selling it or getting a benefit from it but it's hardly something we would mess with
Don't you think we could come up with some really simple conditions under which we would object? In this scenario, you just described an influencer saying I'm going to Solvang. We want that.
Somebody
taking a different
example. Well, I think in that case it's more of an issue of impropriety. You're using public assets for your personal benefit. Exactly. In which case I think public scorn is far more effective and cheaper than to pursue legal action to ask them to take it down? Perhaps we want their
ability to decide that.
I think it's important for us to make sure that we have the ability. Not necessarily going to be out there policing it and looking at every social media post yet but if
And I just want to pause here because I know we're getting into deliberation and have public comment. No, you're great.
Are there any other comments? Oh, there is. My apologies. Still learning all of this. So public comment, we have Denise Salamin.
Hi, I've been here a long time listening to you guys' debate and if I was just a normal person, a resident, I would not know what in the heck you guys were talking about. You've been talking like, I don't know, you've been talking like you have little kids around you and you don't want them to know actually what mommy and daddy is doing So, let me allow and let me say that the San Francisco gate noted that it's one thing for a mayor of a wildly popular tourist town to be proud of his little slice of paradise. It is another thing entirely for him to be capitalizing off of it by running his own Kendall Stone tourism app In Solvang, both residents and members of the City Council have expressed concerns that Mayor Dave Brown, who excused himself, side-hustle an app promoting Solvang tourism is both a conflict of interest and a breach in ethics.
This is what you guys have been talking about for the last 30 minutes. Dave Brown stepped out if he didn't have a conflict of interest, he should be sitting in that seat right now. He's the mayor. He didn't have this app up until he became the mayor. He has been living in Solvang and he has been a businessman for a long time. Mark Afani was the mayor, and he stepped down to take District 1. And Dave Brown moved up to the mayor, and then he opened his application in to make money off of businesses, and I guess the thing was is that One business didn't get to get into the clique and it made him upset, which I can understand. Do you cherry pick who you put on your app?
You have to regulate that because you cannot allow people to come in town Or if you want to, then you have to allow everybody. Because then you're telling me that I can have a Solvang rainbow flag come in and we'll give you all a flag? Then it would be 10,000 people in here tearing this building down. So, you have to be consistent. You can't just cherry pick people that you like or people that you don't think will do this city any harm.
Markifani's words, you know, ideology. I thought I'd never hear that again and he hasn't said it but let's talk apples and apples. Let's talk about Dave Brown and his Solvang app please.
3:51 – 4:0521 turns
Are there any other comments? I'm sorry there's a gentleman behind you that's coming up that I think wants to make a comment, but no. Robbie you're welcome to make a comment. Sir thank you.
Yes my name is John Steele. I've been a resident of Solvang for about 19 years I am a retired attorney, emphasized retired. So I no longer practice law and when I did practice law I was not a trademark attorney or intellectual property attorney but I did deal with a lot of intellectual property issues in the course of my practice and I did I was familiar enough with trademark law to know that if you are the owner of a trademark, or if you are the owner of copyrighted material and you don't enforce your rights, you will waive them ultimately.
That is exactly why Kellogg and Coca-Cola and others have whole teams who police their rights, who look for people who are violating their rights. And they then when they find them, they will attempt to enforce their rights because if they don't do it, they lose them. For the City of Solvang, I would say if you are going to the trouble of trademarking or copywriting material don't be under the illusion that that's going to give you protection forever if you don't enforce those rights.
And if someone should violate those rights and you don't enforce them, then you stand a very good chance of losing them. So you need to decide whether you're going to enforce them or you're not. And that takes resources, and so it's a policy decision for the city. But I don't want you to believe that just by having the trademark or the copyright, that alone is going to give you all of the protection that you need.
Thank you.
Thank you. It's almost like an attorney wrote that law.
Do we have any other public comment? Robby. Can you state your name for the record?
Absolutely, my name is Robby Hargreaves and I think I'm pretty well known at this point. Regarding trademarks, I am wearing a hat with a windmill on it. While I was sitting there, I was actually going through the process of trademarking my logo. But based on the information I just heard, the resources that I would need to prosecute or to seek legal... I don't have those resources but I don't think that my windmill logo is a logo of the city. That would be up for question, since it is hand-drawn.
I will refrain the rest of my time for the next topic that is kind of what I wanted to talk about was more of the ethics of City Council. Thank you.
Thank you. Any comments online? Anything? Okay, so I will bring it back to the Council.
I'm going to try to keep this really simple guys because I think we can get some real work done. I think best practice, we have to take some registration action on copyrights. In the absence of that, we don't have anything to enforce Whether we enforce or not is not on the table, right? Maybe we decide on what conditions would- or what policy conditions would need to exist for us to act legally. But it's simply this there's two things at stake. We have the reputational harm for the City of Solvang and I think everybody would unanimously agree we don't want anything negative The second thing, super simple.
If we just, I think Chelsea said it best. Do we want to have standing so that we can enforce what we already say? Our website for example is copyrighted. So do we want to be in that position and then we have to answer the next question which the attorney just pointed out which is how much energy do we spend enforcing so that we don't by default wave because we're not acting on it. But I think it's kind of obvious to everyone. Everyone is paying attention to what's in the press, online, digital.
We know when something negative... we know when somebody is in a chat session saying something negative about us and then the question is what do we do about it? So I think if we... I'm going to just outline it real simple. If we just take our copyright Bundle of the website, SolvangUSA.com which we spend a ton of money on and say as a bundle we're registering that and we choose under what conditions we would worry about somebody copying pasting just very easy to do in the digital arena and using it for harm or public private benefit Second thing is there's a gap on that website, which is the logo.
And that gap, probably we need to go pursue. Do we have the right to that or not? We need that question answered because it was given to us but we've taken no action on it. So do we want anybody free wheel with that either? And then the third is the slogan and the slogan could be the Danish capital of America. It's so singular nobody else uses it there isn't two capitals of anything. There's probably one its location specific And do we want somebody modifying that in a way that does reputational harm to us?
And that's it. That I think kind of sums it all up, that simply.
Well the one comment I would make to yours is your starting comment was about Solvang USA. They change stuff, put stuff on there all the time. Does that change our copyright? Is it still copyrighted if we're not registering it? Do we have to register every new thing that comes onto that website?
So, there are some opportunities to bundle registration like if you have a database of photos you can register that database but my understanding and again like we should run this by an IP attorney is that you do have to Mostly you have to register individual assets, so like we would take the video on the banner. We would take whatever photos we have and register those individually. The application fees I don't think are like they're not so high that that would be that prohibitive but I do think we probably have to itemize it more than just like the whole website and the content does change. I mean I think like our blog posts for example you know that's something that Each one would probably be its own copyrighted, you know written material.
And a lot of the stuff that's on Solvang USA comes from other internet folks that have given us permission to use that. Like another news article or something? Are we going to copyright the image that somebody did? Okay
Well, if we commissioned it through a contract then we own that copyright. But if we're licensing like if somebody else does an Instagram post and creates their own photos and then says hey Solvang you can put that on your website like yeah that would not be our IP to copyright that's their IP We just have an agreement
to use
it. That other, you know the source of that that we would somehow it you know police the use like no. We're not going to be responsible they're gonna have to respond.
It's an important question that we need to just simply say if its influencer data and we post their reel influencers typically it's just the same definition of copyright as soon as they create it they own
it.
They've given us permission to reuse it The question then becomes, are we liable if someone copies it from our website and distributes it in a way that the original owner doesn't want? That's too complicated. It's just they've given us the right to use it. We've used it. They probably given us no conditions. We're not exposed but in the case of an Influencer, they want that data to propagate and guess who benefits? They do and we do. So it's mutually beneficial. I don't think we should worry about that.
And that's kind of one of the points I was trying to make is from a policy perspective like In some ways you want the organic like percolation of the things we're creating and so that is different I think than like a, you know, Coca-Cola company that really wants to control their IP in a different way. You got to decide whether you want to allow that it's okay that people borrow our stuff because it's all good promotion for Solvang? I don't know. That's kind of a policy perspective but Yeah, there's some realm of that where I think you probably do want people to just kind of share what we've created. Right?
Well yeah but I think also Mark had an important question which was what is the best practice for because our website content is changing repeatedly constantly what is the best practice so if we choose to register as a bundle that we have Either an update or a methodology, there must be a methodology that others use that just says our ever-changing website is protected and we will protect it.
I'm not aware of a copyright that you can just copyright a website, a dynamic website.
It was really just a request for you guys to tell us how should we do that?
Yeah, I think what my understanding is you would have to pick the item like the pieces of the website that you want to copyright and then it's a decision of resources like do you want to continually register new content that we create and put up there For example, the blog post. Do we want to have it as direction and policy that every time we post a new blog post, we file a new copyright application?
Or are we saying there's some key assets like that drone video that we're going to be using for a long time, that are pretty high value marketing tools that other people might want to use. That they were going to trademark that one because we really want to protect that and focus on certain resources that we think we're going to use for a long time and that might be That you know like a better use of resources, like we don't have to do everything we could target certain things certain assets that are more valuable to the city or what we think are going to be used more I you know that's all decisions.
Um, just from a practical perspective you know I think doing something where like every single new content we put up registering that even to like the smallest image if we can't bundle it that's probably not feasible right? But if there's a way this to bundle it maybe you thought that would I do know you can bundle a deck of photos. I think we are all agreeing that we should delve into this deeper.
4:05 – 4:1023 turns
I don't think we can afford to have everything patented and copyrighted and trademarked. We have to spend so much time, energy and money on this but maybe a little bit more of a dive into this and look at our logo and slogan and see what we can do. Talk to a copyright trademark attorney, somebody that is knowledgeable that could give a little bit more guidance.
Well it sounds to me like because you have to not only the registering things is the easy part but it sounds like unless you're actively going out there and enforcing it, you're eventually gonna lose the right to claim property rights when you do need them and I don't see us contracting A law firm, a staff member to just go out there and look at what images, what assets have been used and enforcing that just for the sake of keeping that copyright. That's a lot of staff time. That's a lot of money, a lot of resources used on something just in case one day somebody uses that we don't like. I would say 90% of the time it's going to be used by influencers or magazines or media that are promoting the town And if anything, the content that we create shows the city in a good light.
So if somebody wants to use it in a disparaging way, they're not going to use the images that we create. They're going to take their cell phone and take a picture of the dirty bathroom in Solvang and use that to disparage the city. As much as we don't like it is the right to do freedom of expression. So I can understand the concern, but I don't know if it's worth spending the resources on pursuing it. Because most of the time we're going to be doing you know enforcement just for the sake of keeping the rights not because it's really targeting something harmful.
I just want to say there you know some of the concerns were expressing of somebody is you know defaming the city or whatnot. If they used a Solvang you know, marketing asset to do that. We could tell them to stop using our video or our photo but their free speech wouldn't go away with that like they can still make the same comments they just wouldn't be able to do it with our copyright image so I'd, you know...
They have to do a Lego video or something they can't use our content Or they
could just shoot their own video whatever The point is that just because we would get the copyrighted stuff taken down, we can't control their speech.
Okay got it I think well we can come back to why we're having this conversation at all is because most of the Solvang USA website was scraped to create a separate private entity app And so we do have an example of not reputational harm, but false endorsement and using the assets for private benefit. And we noticed it I think or at least once we become aware, we noticed it.
That is true but also sending a letter and saying hey that's not cool can you stop it was enough to remedy that. We didn't have to go through the process You know, filing a grievance in court and asking him to take it down and claiming damages. So
we didn't send a letter well
he was asked okay but he was asked to not do it and and he complied. Not
yet no he's got text up still I keep checking
oh really
yes okay
So at this point,
here we are.
Yeah,
well my opinion is I can understand the concern and I can understand how we're doing it but since we're not really going to do the follow-up and enforce it actively because I don't think it's worth The time, the money. I don't know if it's
worth pursuing. Yeah, but we said that we wouldn't
yeah according to the staff report and according to the gentleman that just gave us public comment. If you're not actively enforcing it you lose the call for right to
write but you need a condition to enforce so if someone violates and you can enforce, but we don't know how often that's going to happen
OK, but then are we going to have staff time going periodically looking for who's we are right
now
our picture
we are right now
4:10 – 4:1520 turns
In one instance.
In one instance, exactly. But not constantly and not vigilantly but when it comes to our attention. Yeah but that's what you have to do if you want to keep the legal rights too. And therefore we are and that's exactly what we're debating right now are we going to act or are we going to let it slide?
I'm not sure that's what we're asking. We already copyright this data, the only thing we haven't done is registered anything right?
The copyright attaches when it's created and then to register it gives you the power to go into court and enforce your copyright infringement. Action so if absent registering the enforcement that we could take would be to send people letters or community, you know get in touch with somebody who's using our material and say stop. That's our copyright And if they hope would be that they would say okay got it Or but if they say no I'm gonna keep using it then We don't really have a second step because unless we register it, we can't file for copyright.
You understand what that means? We can say politely please stop and they can politely say I'm not going to. We are solving but do we value what we have enough to protect it?
Well and how many things are we actually looking at trying to register, right?
It's nothing. And it doesn't cost us anything so I mean a couple few hundred dollars.
The registration fees are yeah that inexpensive. It's the lawyer fees.
Yeah exactly and any copyright lawyer is gonna tell you oh yes you absolutely need to do it because you know that's one more contract that you have to pay out No offense to practicing attorneys.
Unfortunately not.
I'm
sorry.
I think we need to protect what we have. And I think it's pretty simple and I don't think it's very costly, and I don't think it implies that we become Coca-Cola. I think it sends a deliberate message that we want standing to enforce what we pay for
Sounds like that one's going to die because lack of a second.
We're just giving direction, right?
Why don't we start with getting the letter out that says this is city stuff, quit using it and see what happens. If it doesn't get us anything then we need to follow up I think with a little bit stronger methodology.
For now. Yeah I would second that yeah I think we should just
don't do a huge deep dive, but just come back and give us information. Like what is it going to cost to register? And
that would be our next step And I don't, I mean, I agree that we should send a letter but I just feel like that's a separate issue than what we're talking about here.
Thank you. I guess I was interpreting Councilmember Infante's comment to be that the direction would be that as a policy, if the city staff became aware of any city copyright assets being used without permission, that we would send a letter to that person and say stop using it. That's our copyright. And that would be the direct, the policy and direction going forward.
I know you're probably thinking it's relating to specifically the Solvang passport I think we should pursue looking at that.
4:16 – 4:2340 turns
If you send a letter, a letter with no teeth, polite letter, you're still sending a toothless letter. What's the point of the letter?
Well are we willing to spend $70,000 to $500,000 for sutures because somebody is...
No all I'm saying is that we have a registration, we have a standing to say that our letter has legitimacy
Okay yes, but again the point of doing this is enforcement. If it comes to that are we going to spend the resources on that?
I don't think we need to decide that right now because we don't have any conditions on the table. I don´t think we should spend
money on things that might happen just in case. I think there's other resources... We do that every day!
It's only a few hundred dollars
To register it, but yeah. But the enforcement is what's expensive and I don't think we should pursue something just in case that it happens when we have other priorities Okay,
can I just make the point that if we trust the staff to notify us when something has happened? We went three months without any notification
It's not the staff's job to look out to see if somebody is using our copyrightable material. Their job is to run the city
because we haven't made it a policy.
We're not Coca-Cola, we're not Disneyland, we're not in the business of creating property so that we can exploit it. We're a jurisdiction, we make sure that the city runs.
Then we should stop paying for it. Why don't we go focus on roads and parking instead of promoting on marketing for something that residents do not benefit from?
I don't think copyrighting our material is hindering the effort of promoting the city for the sake of tax credit. You're
saying the way you're spending the money is not important enough to protect it?
But, I don't think it's hurting us. I don´t think the fact that somebody took a picture of a reel and put it on their website or app is hurting us in any way. Not less people are coming and staying in the hotels because they did that so... You all do whatever, but I don't think pursuing copywriting all of the material just because hypothetically somebody one day might misuse it. It's worth the staff time. It's worth the lawyer fees. It is worth the active enforcement. Do
you want to make a motion to that?
We're just giving self-direction and the direction that me personally doing is I don't think there's much to gain from it.
So far, I have not gotten direction from a majority of the council on any item what I've heard is thrown out are is to from Councilmember Elizabeth Arona would be to you know pursue registration and Seeing if we could get ownership of the Windmill logo and pursuing trademark of the Danish Capital of America slogan from Council Member Infante. I heard of establishing a policy that, if and when the city staff or council members become aware that there is copyrightable, our marketing assets being used, that we hold the copyright for That the policy would be to send a letter to stop using that. And so if there's a majority of you that would agree to any piece of all of that, that's on the table or anything else that anyone wants to offer?
All of it?
I mean, I think sending letters to somebody using material that we think it's in an inappropriate way is a good start. But to copyright everything and retain a law firm just in case, I think it's a little much.
OK. So OK for the letter. Letter...
Do we have to retain a different law firm to register a copyright?
I mean, I know of the other cities that I know of. I think that's the practice they have an IP firm that like monitors... No no no just
to do their registration
I could see if we have people in-house that would do that. I've never done
that. Robby just did it while he was sitting on his phone. Yeah, but again... I don't think we need to pay excessive lawyer fees for that.
It's not the registration itself, it's the enforcement that is costly and if you're not gonna go with the enforcement 99.9% of the time then is it really worth it to pursue it?
That's
like saying you aren't, you shouldn't buy insurance unless you're going to use a claim. But you should but you don't know.
Maybe just start with the sending letters policy do we have a majority of people in favor of that piece?
I think that's fair
yeah
okay so that's one thing we can do As far as pursuing registration of some of our marketing assets, staff could come back with recommendations more specifically about this seems to be a more important thing that we're going to use for a longer period of time. Again I've heard from it seems like all of you that we don't want to be in the business of every blog post filing a new application but if we can bundle it or
So make some recommendations to us of what's reasonable for us to copyright.
A
blog post, maybe what we do is whatever is created by TJA where we have a contract that says it's our IP. Blog posts don't, there's so much debate. There's too much debate. It's totally wide open about who owns that? I think it's just assets and if it is in our asset database.
Yes, but the copyright application has to identify the specific thing that is getting copyright that you're registering. So we can't just say like anything that was created under this contract going forward. So
why don't you guys make that recommendation then because I think you know what's either what gets created... What I don't know is what gets created by TJA versus somebody else who's creating a blog or an influencer, and what ends up in our digital asset database or a digital asset management system that we reuse and repurpose and treat more like assets that the city you know kind of becomes over time our signature data.
Do we have a digital asset database?
4:23 – 4:3131 turns
Not everything, but certain photos in particular are in an asset database.
Okay thank you I wasn't aware of that
When the influencers come or our contracted marketing folks bring a photographer and they give us all those assets and there is a database that they all have access to since they all contract with the city and then we do as well on a server somewhere.
Our contracted marketing folks have
access,
not everybody it's not...
No well I mean staff does in the project. Yeah
you have to have a login right to use the system correct? So there it should be protected
Can we look at that and see what the number is, what we're actually dealing with and come back to staff, come back to us and identify what it would take to protect the assets in that database?
Yes. If we have a majority of you wanting to do that.
I don't see what that gets us.
Okay. I agree.
I agree. I think you should. Okay Thank you. All right.
Did I guess is there any interest in trying to get the windmill logo negotiate that to be more than a non-exclusive use license. That was another thing raised.
I'm pretty sure that when Rennie gave that to us, he gave us the rights to everything and that was a few years ago we'd have to go look it up
but yeah i've read the it's a non-exclusive right to use the logo like logo with Solvang on it the you know the contract only included a black uh blue and white version not the red version that's on All right, any other comments? Are we done with this item? We will move
on.
Thank you.
Is he going to be part of this one too?
Thank you. We'll be
moving on to item C, but before we do that we'll need a motion to extend our meeting beyond the 930 deadline. But I'm not okay? We can go past even though we're in the middle of that conversation? All right. Would you read item 8C into the record for us, please?
Discussion of City of Solvang's Code of Ethics for City Council and Advisory Bodies.
Thank you. Staff report please.
Thank You Mayor, members of the council This item is before you because there was desire from a majority of the council to review the City's Ethics Code and determine if there are any amendments warranted specifically with respect to Councilmembers' obligations to notify of potential conflicts in financial interests. Staff wanted to bring the full ethics code to the council for review.
The staff report provides some guidance on, you know, the purpose and how, you know, the purpose of ethics codes and how they're usually formulated. Typically, they are self-enforcing. At least that's how Solvang is currently set up and we have state law sets forth the floor of ethical requirements where if you violate that you're engaging in financial conflicts of interest. Ethics codes I think are a little more aspirational. They try to set forth codes of conduct that are based on community standards You know, more described like the best behavior that we want people to have when they're acting at their best. So there's a little different purpose for an ethics code versus a conflicts law and so with that framework we wanted to bring forward the you know Ethics code for your consideration.
There's, you know one potential edit to consider in the staff report based on prior discussions of the council but you know additional Council could choose to do that or not and or offer other additional amendments to The ethics code, you know, we would be bringing this back for actual adoption based on the direction tonight you know, any amendments we would bring back for adoption at another date. Is
that your report? Yes. Okay, thank you. Any conversation or questions?
You know I just find it interesting so we have a code of ethics and this isn't related to anybody sitting here but it's happened years prior that somebody says This person, you know should be castigated in a way or we're kicking out this person from this commission for whatever reason. Is there anywhere on the code or any where about the consequences of breaking the ethics code? Or is this just something that you voluntarily comply and get full scorn of everybody if you break it?
Yeah so the way this, the way our code about the city's Code of Ethics is set up if you look at paragraph 18 it says that you know it expresses standards of ethical conduct but the members themselves have the primary responsibility to ensure that ethical standards are met and understood. There's no provision in here that you know if you violate it you will be sanctioned or you know that kind of enforcement mechanism Some ethics codes include that, but ours does not at this time.
There's a
little model of
excellence
at the bottom and that's
what I believe you all signed to.
4:31 – 4:389 turns
Mark, don't you remember signing it? No. So adding this line on for the conflict of interest that's just purely disclosure then it's not enforceable it's just absolutely you got to let everybody staff and council know.
Yes I mean you know that's backed up by the state conflict of interest laws but yeah the way code is set up now, it is self-enforcing. And I think the idea and the goal with ethics codes again is to express the aspirational standards for how our council and our advisory bodies to the council conduct themselves and that It's not meant to be as punitive in the sense that the idea is that you get community buy-in and we're working under a shared sense of values rather than this being the tool for enforcing it for conflicts. But there are different approaches, I mean the resource that's linked In the staff report, you know goes through I don't know if you guys read it but there it does go through other options. You know they're some codes do take a more of a you know affirmative approach that if there's a violation you know there could be censure or you know public admonishment at the dais that kind of you know like essentially a letter saying you violated ethics rules shame on you That's another approach you can take.
That particular report I think thought the self-enforcing aspirational route was, that's kind of what they were recommending because it fosters a more collaborative approach and builds the community of an ethical community and approach but if the council wants to move a different direction we can.
I'd like to digress just a minute. This was adopted September 23rd, 2024 less than two years ago and I think with the exception of one board member was approved at that time. Does anybody have any suggestions or modifications to this at this time? That would either improve it make it better
I have some suggestions, but do we do that in deliberation or we take public comment before we do
that? We'll take public questions first, I think. But I just was curious if anybody is passionate about changing something let us know. That's why we're here.
I'm pretty passionate about making sure this isn't just a self-affirming.
Because it was done in less than two years ago, I'm just making sure that you know the situation has changed or whatever and we're going to improve it in some fashion but unless there's other questions for the staff, I am going to open it up for public comment. We will open it up for public comment.
Thank you very much. Yes, I am going to be running for mayor in November so I want to make sure that I'm perfectly clear that I can start an app and make money and you guys will not kick me off of the council Because I'm kind of like, listening to you guys and you're not making any... I'm not gonna say. You're not making any concrete rules or regulations. if I feel that I can do it and you can't throw me off. So, I'm so glad that we have this here and it is recorded so when I run, I can run on the platform that I'm gonna start an app for Solvang and make Solvang more money and nothing, you guys can't do anything about it.
And I'm glad you guys are saying it. It's very, very nice to hear that you can do things in city council and be the mayor is sort of like what's going on in the world today. I guess everybody is just deciding not be ethical, I guess. But my thing is that if you know you've done something wrong like I tell my kids they have a look on their face and we know when we've done wrong And when you've done wrong, you need to excuse yourself and move on.
If not, you have set a precedence and wrong will be followed. And I noticed that the business people here are sticking together but there are residents here. I am a resident. I pay a lot of taxes here and I don't own a business, but I think that we should have people, mayor and city councils that are ethical. That believe in doing the right thing. Didn't take office just to make money off of Solvang.
That's just simple, basic respect and honesty. And when you come here and you talk for over a hour-and-a-half about how to get around being respectful and honest and truthful, it is really, really sad. Solvang is gonna get a bad name out there because of what you guys are allowing to happen and I love this place. I've been here a long time, and my family's been here over 50 years.
You guys need to be ethical at least, minimal.
Thank you. Mr. Robbie, her graphs.
4:38 – 4:453 turns
Council, Mayor Brown. I first want to start by apologizing to you publicly. I did not mean to cause any hardship towards you or to the City Council whatsoever. I've known Mayor Brown for on the better part of 12-13 years and I know Dave as a very stand up person from Rotary, from the Jazz and Olive Festival. I look at you as a mentor and I love you. And part of loving our friends is also when we believe that there's some wrongdoing and I just want to make that known I believe I need to just acknowledge this.
So as a local business owner, as a pastoritarian, as a Paul Harris Award recipient, I believe in service above self. Let's not get distracted. Trademarking is not the issue, it's an ethics, potentially ethics problem, conflict of interest problem. I really just wanted to get up here and just make sure that you know I'm not taking a shot at you Dave. You are a friend of mine and I love you.
All I want to do is just read the four-way test. I know that you're still Rotarian. Is it the truth? Is it fair to all concerned? Will it build goodwill and better friendships? Will it be beneficial to all concerned? To the best of my knowledge, if no is the answer to any one of those questions we are supposed to stop and rethink our decision. I'm not currently a Rotarian but I still hold those values true to my heart.
Thank you.
Thank you. Anybody on Zoom? Are there others in the room? Okay we'll bring it back here to further discussion.
I'm sorry, I'm kind of like taking a breath from that comment. I was going to talk about what I thought should change what the staff prepared, but actually I think I'm just going to go for the heart of the matter right now. I do not agree necessarily with self-policing ethics and when we sign that it's like taking an oath to yourself. There is no accountability to each other And or to staff for everybody who's working really hard, but worse. There's no accountability to people who make this city really great which is mostly the residents and the business owners So what are we doing? I think about you know like What action can I take as a member of this council To message publicly that I don't agree and that I don't agree.
Dave, you know this. I just don't agree. I think Robbie's four values have all been yes. So when I am on the dais and I'm saying look, I don't agree but I'm unable to take any formal action What does it say to the public who I'm here to serve that I am complicit and I will keep coming up to the dais and performing my responsibilities in compliance with something that I don't agree with.
And therefore, I feel like there needs to be something in our ethics code that lets the council members take a position formally because I told you Dave, I don't want to be part of the council that just ignores something that's wrong or that's unethical or unfair to residents and business people. I don't want that to go unsaid or unaddressed. So I would propose a couple of things.
That we have the ability to censor someone who we don't agree with if we have a majority, we have that option. It doesn't do harm to anybody except it takes a public position that this is something we don't agree with collectively even though we have to continue to perform our duties and responsibilities We have taken a public position, we don't agree but we still have to do our job.
It says if there is a change in your material status, you disclose it and you disclose it right away. And under some reasonable amount of time. But I would ask that we add one more thing which is disclose the nature of the conflict so that we can understand if there are reasons and when there would be reasonable needs to recuse because unless Again, it's self-enforcing. We can't understand. We don't have the insight to say, oh I don't agree with that and it's wrong. Honestly, if we can't do that, I will say honestly, I don' t want to be part of a council that is unable to do that.
4:45 – 4:5613 turns
I know in the past you've always said if you want to say the same thing, you just say ditto. So I'm going to say ditto to that. I think we do need to include this new verbiage in number eight, the conflict of interest but when I read that I mean it's great that it's there, but where I'm coming from is that I felt blindsided by the information we heard back in March about this Solvang app.
And so I think it's good that we disclose information to each other as a body. We're responsible for this city and it's an amazing city, and we're so fortunate to be here. If the mayor was opening a second office for his brokerage I would not have a question. I think if I was opening up a cheesecake shop, nobody would have any questions but to go outside of your wheelhouse and what we know you to be That's where I think the ethical concern comes up and especially when there is a potential financial gain.
So, I agree that as a body we should be able to get the information and have an input and be able to say hey, I don't think this is a really good idea right now. Maybe in six months, maybe when you're not a public figure I will make a couple of comments.
I advise going to the city attorney trying to do what's best and keep within the guardrails. I've done all that, and I tried to do that. The reason it wasn't fully put out because using a cheesecake example was still half-baked I didn't find it, to notify each of you would be a if it is a conflict. It would end up being a Brown Act violation to share with everybody.
I did share it with the city manager and other things and like I said stayed within the guardrails given by the city attorney so At this time, I'm quite confident there's not been a conflict of interest. But I can't help the perception that I can't do and for that I'll apologize. I think what I heard suggested was in addition to point 18, compliance and enforcement
that says that we have the right to call somebody out on this, on an ethical conduct that isn't acceptable. And I would agree with that. putting the additional terminology in there that says that we have a right, maybe even a form. I don't know exactly and would have to leave that to the lawyer on how we approach that but I like the idea of being able Say something about it. I'm not sure how much we can do about it necessarily, but at least state it and maybe even make it public
Well, I don't think there's anything stopping us from speaking out and saying we don't agree with something. We think it's wrong. There's nothing that prohibits us from expressing that we're thinking somebody is acting unethically. You know, that is a thought. Can we come up with consequences for breaking the code of ethics? My understanding is that this is our own code of ethics.
A commission, a California Commission that you can submit complaints if a politician or a public official is acting improperly. We all went through that on 2019-2020 Mark, you remember? The only issue that I have with that is that if we decide, us as a council can decide we don't like this person. We're going to out them out. We're going to kick them out of the council.
It could be for a legitimate reason but it could also be just because They stink and we don't like them at the dais. And so we are taking out our representative that was publicly elected just because of our four or three opinions, I have more of an issue with that doesn't sound very democratic. And I think it would be a bigger issue if more people were here to say, you know, we have a huge problem with this. But as of now, I can understand how it looks bad if somebody is in a Elected a position they're starting a new business and maybe their PBP piggybacking on the fact that they hold a public position. The business owners might be inclined on joining in on the business because they think that that may get them special consideration or special favor I can see how it looks messy But until there is an actual action where he is granting special privileges to somebody just because they do business with him, I think there's less of an ethical problem with that.
And if we expect city councils to have nothing to do with anybody and just focus in public service, well then maybe we should employ them full time with the city and expect them to not have any other income so that they can't possibly be influenced by outside interests. We don't do that and ultimately we're still free You know, pursue whatever businesses we have. So I can see why we would want to put more teeth in it but on the other side I also can see how these could be problematic.
May I weigh in a little bit? So just on the point of an ability to censure, I want to be clear that any Addition to the ethics code would be more limited to if there was a violation of the ethics code, not a general power to censure council members based on just activity that other council members didn't like in the council member's personal or public capacity. It would have to be tied to a violation of the ethics code.
Um, you know the example that I have would be that a violation of the ethics code would be, you know misconduct and would be would be caused for censure by the City Council and then the City Council would adopt a resolution of censure saying that you violated the Ethics Code, whoever, you know, violated the Ethics Code. And that would be the action like the policing action beyond just self-enforcement that we could add So that is one way forward. I think to what Councilmember Claudia Rona is mentioning, I think the flip concern which this is explained in the resource that I linked to but there's a flip side to where you Ethics codes will be undermined in their purpose if they're used for political advantage or gain.
And so that's spelled out in here as kind of a, you want to have an ethics code and be able to be accountable to it but the, if you go too far one way they call it vigilante ethics and that the political use of an ethics code is problematic because it ultimately will also undermine public confidence The body and the level of ethics in the city. So that's something to consider, but I do have this example of that violation as a resolution of censure. As something we could put in to strengthen it or stick with the self-enforcing policy and then I'm hearing some support for adding the language that staff suggested but maybe with a slight modification so just wanted to check in with those clarifications Just
a question, if somebody is censured what does that mean?
It means you pass a resolution saying you're censured. There's no like criminal or civil violation it's just it's a purely internal...
Does that mean they can't participate anymore in council? What does that do? You're censured.
So in the city that I've seen it happen in, um, I mean it was just sort of a public slap on the wrist and I think they didn't participate in maybe one council meeting after that but you know it wasn't they didn't get removed from office like you know we can't just remove people who are elected officials right? So yeah, I mean it's essentially a slap on the wrist but it's public and there's some value to that. Yeah, I
mean I'm out for public shaming if somebody is doing some wrongdoing.
But again, you would say we think you're violating X Y & Z provisions of the ethics code and so if there are other provisions we want to revisit too, we can look at that.
Thank
you.
4:56 – 5:0114 turns
You know, I'm not opposed to adding the verbiage that you have there. But and then also if you have that what did you call it? The enforcement court?
Censure.
Then please add if it pleases this board.
Yeah. So we just add one more thing just to revisit I added one thing to that ad that the attorneys have suggested for conflict of interest which is just a little more detail of the nature of the conflict so we can understand or have insight to recusals.
And I, I guess I should probably this was sort of implied in my thoughts when I was drafting this but notification to the city council would have to be at a public meeting. Not behind the scenes because that yes okay so thank you for made that clarifying that clarification. Just so I can understand your suggestion, Member Arona. Right now the addition says members of the City Council shall promptly notify staff in the City Council of any new material financial interests that arise during the member's term in office and I would say shall promptly notifies staff and City Council in a public meeting, maybe.
It had to be implied because we can't there's unless you're violating Brown Act another conflict of ethics but don't want it has to do be done in public
yeah and so you know where you all report out or however we could have that I mean, yeah another option is to require them to notify staff and that you know staff has to keep Council apprised. But you know we could have arranged it that way but I guess for what you're suggesting you would like where it says any new material financial interests And the nature of that interest?
Like that
in there. Yeah, I know it probably sounds vague maybe you guys could make a suggestion but I think you know it's different It would be different to own a new piece of property in your district versus Start up a business selling to other businesses or start up a business Maybe in competition with something the city is contracted for Those are like obvious things, but I think we're looking for the complexities get sussed out.
Yeah, I guess in my mind when I say the financial interest under the conflict of interest law each type of financial interest is its own bucket so if you have a business financial interest that's one bucket. You have a real property financial interest that's another bucket. Is that like the level of detail that you're talking about?
I can't imagine a scenario where property is going to be overly complex, but business I do. Now we're in a digital arena and we're looking at what are the implications.
I was just going to say, just generally like when any of you or any of the advisory bodies come to me or my office with questions about conflict of interest, I mean we ask enough questions to be able to walk through the different parameters under the conflict of interest rules So, you know I guess I'm saying like it might just kind of the detail that you're talking about might just come from the notification and then we would get them for how we need to analyze it
perhaps but it didn't. I mean we you guys well you guys miss the idea that he was collecting revenue from other businesses but only a few of them you know like that never even came out in the reports
The conflict of interest analysis that we did actually, but again if we're focusing on discovering whether there's a financial interest that would be implicated under you know conflict-of-interest law. That level of detail for that analysis would be out there whether like what you just alluded to is a different ethical question it's not part of that. And again, I'm trying to figure out what you want more generally versus...
But under this language, I would have to sit here and tell everybody that I'm opening an OnlyFans page if I chose to do that. And I'd rather not have to do that if I chose to do that. I'm just saying that's the scope of openness that we're asking for here.
5:01 – 5:1015 turns
But it's under conflict of interest.
But this is just saying any new financial
interest. I see your point, but it is under conflict of interest bullet so your example It doesn't really apply, but I see your point.
If you're running a business regardless of whether it's OnlyFans or whatever and you're receiving sources of income from that business that could potentially be a conflict of interest depending on the value of the income in a year so You know I she's the council member Claudia Ron is using a maybe an extreme example but um i don't. I mean, I think she's right that it's very broad so that's you know if that's what the council wants to see from staff members I mean we could I see your issue with the last sentence that is being added or suggested to be added but it's under
Construct of, is this something that is going to influence government decisions or have a material impact to government decisions which means city decisions. That's the only reason I don't disclose my employer but I do disclose my real properties.
You do on your form 700 though?
It's not a conflict of interest.
Right but if someone, if a member is doing has a business that's an OnlyFans and one of their customers is a resident who then comes before the council for a permit. Wow. And there's an you know like then there's a potential
conflict of interest
so I think member Claudia Rona is correct that this is that broad
So I think it makes sense to bring it up if there's a potential conflict of interest. It's relevant to, that's a great example. I could be engaging on something that it's not related to Solvang but if a client of mine happened to come here then all of the sudden it would be a conflict of interest in which case it would not have matter if I had disclosed if I had that business or not. So the conflict of interest question comes up at very specific times, I think the
thing that we track kind of more like in the background is where you have real property interest just because So that's like a financial interest that we tend to ask about ahead of time because we know that decisions are going to have a geographical impact. But yeah, typically with business interests I mean we're relying on you all to say oh hey you know that's my employer that's the permittee here I'm gonna recuse myself or you call me and say This person that I have business with is going to be coming up, like do I have a conflict? Help me figure it out. And that's what we analyze and that happens regardless of this general disclosure but...
Mr. Murphy
I want to volunteer that this is an effort to address the council members' concerns that were raised about being blindsided or surprised by the Solvang Passport app specifically. So, the intent was not about conflicts about new... It was again, I was the one who started the conversation and I think it was well what my intent was trying to address that surprise issue Both City Attorney and I knew about the endeavor beforehand. We were looking at it with a lens of conflict of interest in the strictest terms related to FPPC, we did not think with the lens or look at it with a lens about how you all might receive it, how the public might perceive it because it was in our minds at that time. I'm not saying it's wrong where it's gone, I'm just saying at that time we were looking at with the lens of FPPC conflict and what that might mean so I think that's why it landed here but maybe it doesn't belong in this section And there's just a set, maybe totally separate category.
But the idea was this wasn't a new business enterprise that was not previously engaged. I mean it would be different if Claudia was adding another ice cream shop or another trolley to her business or Louise was opening a cheesecake shop. Those are the businesses you're in but this was a variation of And that's what I was trying to capture with this when I made the suggestion. So, you know, I think getting hung up on the conflict of interest because that's clearly Form 700 stuff. That's what the FPPC oversees. This was an attempt because if I'd have known that this was going to be what it was, I certainly would have said something before.
But, you know when I first learned of it. So this is an attempt to say...I didn't say anything because there was nothing in the code that says hey you all should know or have an opportunity weigh in on it. That's what we were trying to do with this language so looking at it through with that idea again maybe it goes in a different section but certainly not to say You know, you already have to disclose if you buy another property or you move or those kinds of things that PPC requires. So I just want to throw that in for context.
Yeah and I guess I think what this would add if you added it would be just the affirmative bringing it to council versus, you know, it is going to be on form 700s but you guys can all go look at each other's form 700s if you want But this would be, you know, essentially reporting it to each other at the City Council meeting. I drafted it as specific to financial interests because I didn't want to...I wanted to focus it on things that could be conflict violations so that the council is not in a position of policing generally the business activities of each other. Because to me that seemed too broad and potentially have free speech issues So I know that we're trying to balance a lot of things here and be responsive to your concerns about not being notified, but also not make too big of a hole here that we're going Scoop up more than we we need to so this is still broad.
I mean, it's financial interests But I didn't want to write it as you know Just new businesses or something like that because one that's not treating changes on your form 700 equally and Trying to tie it to the state conflicts of interest standards because that is where there could be you know a legal violation versus just a If we go back to the ethics for a second, one of the issues that came up was only certain businesses were being invited.
5:10 – 5:1517 turns
within the city and others were eliminated or ignored, or pick your term. That's not necessarily a conflict of interest but isn't it an ethics violation that you're known as in that position and you decide that no my business isn't good enough for you?
So as a business operator, businesses can decide who they want to conduct business with. And then as far as like whether it violates the city's ethics code that would be something that you know we could look at and decide. I'm pulling trying to where... I had it up but there it is. So I mean, I don't want to opine right now on whether. I think that would be something that if we added the censure resolution or something, that would be like the council would consider whether there was a violation for something like that and then decide if they thought the rules were violated.
That would be a lot of time spent on the dais just arguing about what our opinion is on something that somebody does.
Which we're doing right now because there's wide open holes in our policies, but I think maybe to answer Mark's comment, the conflict of interest was also meant to expose where somebody has a bias or couldn't be unbiased, right? They would have an interest in you know a hidden interest or an inability to sort of judge or assess something neutrally. That's the dilemma that we had you know that the code tries to face
Would you mind making another run at this with the feedback that you've had and maybe we can, I don't know about the rest of you but I have fatigue at this point in
time. I think it's pretty good as it is written. We could sit here and think whether what our colleague does is ethical or not ethical but I don't know if that I
think we have a consensus on a censure
And we can bring it back at that point in time. So this was direction only and...
Was
there any
consensus on changes to that suggested sentence in paragraph 8 or?
Just I think basically try and tighten it down. We did, I think everyone
agreed it was broad. Yeah.
I'll let you do the word smithing. That's what you do well. Okay, it's past 930. We have the option of extending our meeting or not but we'll take a vote and a motion to do so before we go forward with any other items.
Do we need to make a motion?
I need you to make a motion to extend the meeting or adjourn.
This is just to this would be to adopt consider a resolution reflecting the direction we received in, in closed session and so I do recommend we proceed so that we can explain what happened in closed session. You know you've all considered it already so I don't think it'll take too long. I'll make a motion to extend the meeting.
Roll-call vote Passed 4–0 motion to extend the meeting.
Show transcript
5:15 – 5:219 turns
Motion passes 5-0
Thank you, staff report please.
Discussion and possible
action to adopt Resolution 261314 amending the City Manager Employment Agreement
Thank you Mayor, members of the Council. The Council as we reported out earlier met in closed session today to discuss the City Manager's contract And after, during that closed session we the city manager and the council came to an agreement on a few amendments to the city managers contract which I will spell out. They are in the updated resolution that's available to the public on the table back here and will be posted on the city's website after the meeting right tomorrow yeah as soon as we can after the meeting just tomorrow And you all have this in front of you, and so what was agreed to was to amend paragraph one. It's to read as follows but it's just updating the dates in the introductory paragraph to say that, you know, this agreement is going to be entered into on the 27th of April and reflecting the prior amendments to the agreement.
Amend paragraph four to extend the term of the agreement to June 30th 2030 Amend paragraph 8 to effective April 28, 2026 increase the city's deferred compensation contribution to the sum equal to 4% of the annual salary. And amend paragraph 16 to provide effective April 28th, 2026 for the accrual of vacation time only That the city manager shall be deemed to have 10 year tenure with the city so that he accrues an additional 40 hours of vacation leave per year. And then should you adopt it, this resolution would direct the city attorney to prepare and amending contract including those revised provisions.
And then we'd route that for signature.
Thank you. Any questions? I'm going to open it up to public comment if there is any. Anybody on Zoom? Anybody in the room? I do have a slip for this. Denise Ellamine.
I get that Randy is being paid more. And I have been asking Randy because I thought he was the head. Honcho knew everything, he's getting paid pretty good, paid more than anybody so... But he wrote me a letter well he sent me an email and he says Hello again, we have a regular meeting with them which is Brightview to go over what they have done since the last time we met.
Our staff reviews the work part of the reason for the 12 000 fee we get from the LLMD that needs to be increased And we let them know they need to do something more. I'm sorry that you continue to be dissatisfied with the work they do, but you are the only resident of Skitten Mesa who routinely complains about their work. As I mentioned in one of my last emails on the topic, we just renewed their contract, Brightview and they will continue to provide landscape and service for the foreseeable future. Have a great day!
This is, that was number one. Let me just read you number two. Hi Denise I have reviewed your concerns regarding Brightview and responded based on the scope of the existing contract and current maintenance schedule At this time, we do not have any additional information to provide you. City staff will continue to monitor Bright View's performance to ensure work aligns with contract requirements including maintaining appropriate mulch levels consistent with the standards outlined in agreements If you remain dissatisfied with this approach, you are welcome to raise the matter with the City Council through public comment and request that the issue be placed on future agendas. But I am done with it.
And you will not respond to any further emails on this matter. That said, I'm happy to encourage you on other areas of concern unrelated to Bright View's performance. So I just wanted to say you're paying him over $300,000 his salary plus his benefits and you just flip off residents. I'm asking a legitimate question. I am paying money for something that's not getting done and you are labeling me and you just flipped me off like you were king.
Thank you.
You're welcome.
5:21 – 5:2310 turns
Thank you. Okay, is there anyone else on Zoom or otherwise that would like to mention anything? We're going to close now then public comment and bring it back to council for discussion. I'll start off, I apologize for that. That was unfortunate and again the facts were not correct. So at any rate let's proceed. Is there any other comments anybody has? Otherwise I'm going to make a motion
Happy anniversary and thank you for your service.
To adopt Resolution 26-1314? I'll second it. It's been moved and seconded, roll call please.
Roll-call vote Passed 4–0 moved and seconded, roll call
Show transcript
Motion passes 5-0
Thank you. Finally, any council closing comments? I would like to say that the ladies on my left are valued Council people and I would not like to see them leave. I hope you stay as long as you feel productive and enjoy being here. Thank you for your service.
Not quitting. I do things I don't want to all the time.
No, I really value the contributions that everybody in the council makes. We might not agree on everything but it's clear that everybody has a community's best interest at heart and I'm honored to serve with all of you. And I want to reiterate that I am honored to belong To a community where people like Susan Williams have made an indelible mark. I'll be cheering to La Diva Divino tonight.
She'll be much missed and much appreciated for all the service that she did to our community in many levels. Here, here. Her and her whole family.
We'll dedicate this one to her.
Her whole family and she's a great friend, great friend.
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