Board of Supervisors — 2025-03-14

you Okay, good afternoon everyone. It's my pleasure to be here with you all. My name is Laura Capps and I am calling to order this special meeting March 14th of the Santa Barbara County Board of Supervisors. Madam Clerk please

Supervisor Hartman had a previously scheduled conflict before today's meeting was scheduled and Supervisor Lavinino had an unexpected memorial to attend today.

Okay, thank you so much. This is really meant to be a dialogue but I have a few opening remarks as well as I've invited my colleagues to provide just again minimal open remarks so that we can jump right in to the dialogue that this is intended to be Thank you for joining, thanks for braving the rain. I'm so impressed that folks left their cozy homes or work to come here to join us and really appreciate it. So I have a few thank-yous to start out with. I first really want to thank the City of Carpinteria.

Historic perhaps that the county has come to you. I see that Mayor Alarcon is here, I believe and Councilwoman Mayer It means a lot and I know someone told me that You all the City Council has I think sent about 21 letters on this topic To the county over the years so really one of the intentions behind this meeting is to come to you And that really reflects my philosophy that these days, government needs to work really hard to go to where people are as opposed to expecting them to come to us.

So thanks to the city for making this possible and I say possible that means the infrastructure, the sound all the things that go into having these kind of meetings. And along those lines I want to thank our county staff who are sitting here and behind me it takes a lot to put a board hearing together this was unexpected and something more on already full plates so i really appreciate their efforts and their willingness to jump in.

I want to thank my colleagues both Supervisor Lee and Nelson as well as Supervisor Lavanino and Hartman who had previously had other commitments but did vote we all voted unanimously January 14th to explore these topics being expressed today. So I really appreciate that. I want to thank industry partners who have really informed my education on a lot of these issues, a lot of the ways in which we can go in the future of cannabis especially here in Carpinteria.

I appreciate their policy ideas, their thoughtfulness many of the industry has really brought us here where we are today and finally I want to thank neighbors All of you for showing up, not just today but countless times over the years. I don't know who would have the record of how many board hearings you've been to waited for public comment waited through different agenda items that you didn't know would take as long filed in your letters.

I've been in government for a long time, but I've also worked around government as an advocate. But I was paid to do those jobs even though I believed in them and it's a whole different ballgame when you're not getting paid but you feel so strongly about something. And what it means to me and what I'm really inspired by is that you haven't given up. You haven't given up on government. You haven't given up on the county and you're really focused on solutions.

I'm going to switch over to the forum goals with that preface because this is really about solutions. As I mentioned, there's been many a hearing where one side shows up with X number of people and the other side shows up with Y number of people and that gets sort of tallied. My goal is that isn't really what this is today because I envision that this is more of a roll-up your sleeves workshop Where we can discuss the items on the screen behind you as we prepare for action on Tuesday.

So specifically those areas which aren't a surprise to anybody because a lot of time was spent at the Planning Commission not too long ago, but really It's three categories for me that I'm interested in learning more. My colleagues might have others, but for me it's really the odor thresholds that have been discussed. That's number one. The type of technology used to verify those thresholds. That's number two and finally extensions to the requirement of putting in a new kind of technology for those operators that haven't already put them in already so again The goal of another goal of this is if nothing else Just to really convey that this county is connected to the city of Carpinteria to the people of Carpinteria greatly so and This hearing I should clarify is just about odor in Carpinteria Not about elsewhere in the county.

We're just really trying to make sure we know what we're talking about today And what what this isn't? and finally what this also isn't Is a time when we're going to be taking votes or action or directing staff. This is not what this is about today, so those are some of the goals We can just briefly, because sometimes people always want to know next steps. We can revisit this at the end of the meeting but as you are probably all aware we're having a board hearing on Tuesday. We're sort of calling it Cannabis Tuesday because there's three board items related to cannabis so many of you might join or tune in as well on Thursday and at that point the expectation is that we would vote final onto the requirement to put in multi-technology carbon filtration.

Okay Let's just get to that kind of before we move on to next slide please. So I put this up here because in a way, we sort of buried the lead there has been new consensus again a 5-0 vote in the Board of Supervisors To direct staff to come back and to direct the Planning Commission on a new requirement for multi-mandatory, multi technology carbon filtration. So for those of you who are paying attention at the planning commission that was almost an aside because there is consensus around this new maybe not everyone agrees with that consensus but at least those who are in the decision making ability here That's been something that there's agreement on. And so we're actually not, I mean we can if the folks want to but we're not really spending a lot of time on that because it's almost settled to some degree with that 5-0 vote both at the Board of Supervisors as well as the Planning Commission.

So that's why but I don't want to kind of move past that without acknowledging that is a major step forward and for me I see it as a new chapter and I hope Rather than any more money going into litigation, this is me editorializing. Money goes into solutions to actually reduce odor. Next slide please. And this is just some guidance that I as I was trying to think through the purpose and my hopes for this forum, is again repeating myself just a little bit. But making sure that this is really a time where we can roll up our sleeves here from you. I have my notebook ready to actually really dive into some of these very, very specific technical ramifications of a new policy And so, but we also you know I can't. We're not going to censure what people talk about if you do want to air your grievances, you are welcome to.

I'm just hoping that we can move beyond that as well and get into Actual policy discussion and so that's kind of what I was thinking about and how the format is structured So I'm going to turn it over to My colleagues for their opening comments, but you'll see in the next slide. So we're gonna take this again To facilitate a real productive conversation We're gonna talk about each of those three topics first And that means that each of you will get to anyone and and Wade Cooper is going to be our Our facilitator. Anyone can give a comment, give a question related to odor thresholds. That D over T seven four one what you think about it questions about it we're having a free flow of exchange on that topic first and then we're going to move into technology to verify that threshold and then we're gonna move into extensions and then time allowed will talk about other topics but I'm again trying to format this so that it's an actual as opposed to just people saying their piece and then sitting down.

As you'll notice, we don't have a time clock. Let's hope we don't need one. I'm hoping that we can all be respectful. We are gonna end sharply at two. So if we're not gonna monitor your time unless it goes in that direction and we're ready to do that if need be but again, we're really trying to facilitate. You've abided by your three minutes countless times and so we're really trying to not have that rigidity to this hearing.

Okay so that's those are my guidance for a productive forum. Those are my ideas and now it's time to hear from the Vice Chair of the board Supervisor

Nelson. Thank you Chairwoman Caps and thank you Carpinteria and the county in general I just wanted to thank you again Supervisor Caps for your leadership on putting this together here today. I think this is great to see all these faces out here, thank you. A small room like this I don't even think we need it to be honest with you. I used to be a school teacher so, you know, I think we've had classrooms bigger than this in the past and so it's good to see all of you out here again. I wanted just to reiterate and thank Supervisor Kapser for her leadership on this issue You know, at one point you and this has been something that's been ongoing that she's been working with. And then also I really wanted to thank Supervisor Lee and it's just been such a enjoyment to have him on the board and thank you for hosting us here.

He is always a host if you guys get to spend any time with him he takes what he did has done for the living in the past into his service to our community with with earnest I want to thank the City of Carpinteria for hosting us. You guys are so gracious here, our county staff you know this is quite the endeavor to get everybody together and I appreciate the flexibility and last but not least I want to thank the public. I think all of you guys for being engaged on this issue and I agree wholeheartedly with Supervisor Capps on wanting to bring discussion to the people. Our role in government Here is is really to sometimes to be the referee, right? We're trying to Eliminate conflicts. That's the whole reason why we have that even police powers on zoning and deal with impacts And that's something that we've been wrestling with at the county for quite some time with this issue specifically I was here back when the cannabis ordinance was adopted I was just a staff member at the time but before I actually got on the board So I've been a part of this discussion now for for many many years and it's to see the evolution Of where we are today.

I have great hope you know, I know that Things have changed, but if we knew then what we knew now, we might have made different decisions. But instead of being stuck on the past, we are looking at ways to move on into the future that can both benefit the community and the industry as a whole. I'm a private property rights guy and a business guy so I don't ever want anyone out of business. But I also do want to make sure that we're doing what we can and be responsive as government.

I love county government in part because what we do here isn't theoretical. You know, decisions that we make on Tuesdays impact your neighborhoods on Wednesdays and so that's what's really special about what we do here at the County Government. That's why I'm really happy to be a part of this discussion and I'm looking forward to getting to know a little bit about your community more through this discussion today and hopefully onward into better things.

Thank you Supervisor Nelson and now Supervisor Lee

Thank you. First I want to say thank you to my colleagues and county staff and City of Carpinteria and everybody for being here today. As you know, I'm a proud resident here in Carpinteria. Most of you know my family, my wife, kids, my brother the mailman, my business and we've been proud residents for over 25 years and continue do so. If you have told me that the Board of Supervisors would be here a few years ago, I wouldn't believe you. But yet here we are today.

I'm eager to listen. I am eager to learn and find solutions to this issue that has been a conflict in our community for a long time so let's get it started. I want to hear from everybody. We do want to set this policy right and looking forward to getting it done. So thank you.

Well said, so that was actually you know what we did really well. I was thinking no more than 15 minutes of opening comments so we could jump right in and we're about there. So this means it's time for you all to raise a question have a concern on the first topic which is odor thresholds and i'm going to rely on Mr Cooper No So this is a question to you all. What do you think about odor thresholds? If anyone has a question or comment, the planning commission ended on what their recommendation back to the board which will be in our board packet for Tuesday is that, correct me if I'm wrong but it's that odor threshold will not reach 7D over T So anything below seven D over T is sort of what's out there as a proposal back to the board. So that's just again, I'm not trying to limit people's comments but if you have an opinion, you have a question we do have staff here that might need to jump in but it's really meant to be a dialogue on that topic of how that sets with you all whether you are of industry, whether you are of neighbors or whether you're an expert on odor et cetera so that's the first topic.

We'll go.

Define it first?

Define the odor threshold, so.

I

can

but. Is that something you can do? Okay sorry we are kind of getting right into the to the details. I appreciate that zooming back a bit

So hi, my name is Aaron Briggs. I'm a staff person in planning and development working on the cannabis odor threshold item. So D over T is dilution to threshold and really what that means is taking an air sample and diluting it seven times. So you're basically getting a fraction of real world inhalation. And the D over T measurement is related to the nasal ranger device, which is basically a device that you hold up to your face and you take a breath into the device and the device allows you to dilute Ambient air so that you can establish a threshold that is less than what we can smell in ambient air. So 7D over T means that air sample has been diluted seven times compared to ambient air, so if you can smell it at 7D over T, that means that the odor is detectable when diluted seven times.

So the Planning Commission is recommending to the board that we adopt a policy up to seven. The City of Carpinteria wrote a letter in favor of just two, I believe. Others have suggested four so I just wanted...we wanted to hear from you all about what you feel about that if people have thoughts?

Sorry, so this is being broadcast live and the reason that we have the microphone is so that the people who are watching who are not here can hear what you're saying. So we'll get to give us one sec. Oh yeah, give us well you know what? We'll start with you. Come on up.

Thanks sir. In terms of the odor threshold, I agree with the City of Carpinteria and I back that idea of at least dropping down to two. I have another point I'd like to make related to the odor threshold. I don't think this is an odor issue. I believe it is an air pollution issue and until we face up to that, we're not going to really deal with the problem Now I understand that a lot of the pollution, those of us that live within 100 feet or so of the county cannabis operations have suffered from the misting systems. That significantly have added to the air pollution.

I believe and I don't want to speak out of time here or your attempt to run some order. I think you're going to dump those systems and I hope so. But that is another issue related to air pollution. It's such air pollution that those of us living adjacent to these cannabis operations would see some kind of residue, oily residue on patio tables and outside lawn furniture and so forth. So in other words we have really had pollution in our yards and I don't wanna take too much time

Misting Technologies?

Yeah

if I can jump in

so thank you. Oh what was your name sir, your name? John Culbertson.

Thank you John and so i think when we get started the first thing you do is introduce your name it just helps us all as we're taking notes and we appreciate your comment there John. The issue about misting just to help you along those lines is that the idea behind the county moving forward with a carbon scrubber system is that there would be no need for those systems in the future. So, that's been the goal of moving on to another technology again you know this is what we know now is different than when initially the ordinance was adopted so we're working on moving past that with this new technology. The assumption is that would be a redundant technology and therefore unnecessary

Can I jump in? Yeah, sure. So let me see... On Tuesday one of the things that we're taking up is to discontinue the use of vapor phase slash misting systems and in the language would be vapor phase slash misting systems shall be phased out over the implementation period of the carbon scrubbers.

And that was a five unanimous vote both at the board and the planning commission so Again, final action would be on Tuesday for that but that looks like that will happen.

I'm going to go back to front over here.

Hi, my name is Graham Farrar. I'm one of the founders of Glass House Farms. Been farming here in Carpinteria for almost 10 years now. I would encourage the board to look towards other cases and rely on engineering rather than arbitrary numbers when setting the D over T threshold. I think the only legally defensible and well-established number is that nuisance starts when D over T exceeds 7. Anything under that is not a number that can be tracked.

It's important to remember this is not a cannabis specific number. This is any odor. This is the smell of a gas station Seaweed, pizza parlor. These are any odors in there so for something to exceed and register as a nuisance the facts the engineering the previous cases illegally defensible position is when that number is over seven. Also one other comment on the misting and the pollution from that happy to hear they're being phased out been here long enough I know Supervisor Nelson has as well to remember that the reason that misting is here was because the carpentry community demanded it. It was not because operators wanted it We personally spend over $1,000 per day to operate misting systems that were required not because we wanted to but because we're being responsive to the community.

So also happy to see those and their associated costs go

away.

My name is Rick Morse and I just live right up the street here. I'm kind of more interested in the process of the dilution, what can you expand a little bit more on how the odor is diluted and then reprocessed and then put back into the air?

So the odor is not put back into the air. The ambient air is pulled into the device and then seven dilutions through a carbon filter are mixed with that ambient air, so it's clean air mixed with one portion of ambient air and that's what you're smelling.

Correct.

Next question or comment on odor?

Yes

Hi, I'm Valerie Bentz. I live in Carpinteria near a lot of canvas growing my husband and I have been suffering from severe allergies for years and just doing more of the misting and all those chemicals only makes it worse great that you're going for the carbon scrubbers would like to see zero outside of the perimeters because we've been suffering from it and you know it's it's been a long time so thank you for what you're doing Thank you.

I'm Mike Wondolowski speaking for Carp Maria Valley Association and regarding odor, we feel that the only allowable standard is zero odor beyond the property line. The recommendation of seven is effectively a little odor. If your neighbor's sewer line had a leak and it emitted a little bit of odor to you and it was detectable, that's obviously unacceptable It would be infringement of your private property rights. It's the exact same thing with any detectable odor at Property Line. Thank you.

Is Lorraine McIntyre, I live in Carpentria. I just had a question before we went too much further talking about 7 or 1 or 0 or 2. Can you explain what like if you were in Gilroy And you were around the garlic farms and you were using this device, what would it measure at? If you could help me understand because I'd like to know. Would it be a seven? Would it be a zero or one or four?

Thank you.

Good question, that's difficult to answer. We haven't tested garlic specifically so we've had quite a few people come in and do the testing with us and we use lemons and sardines and if you put the device up to a lemon like a freshly sliced lemon that's about a seven And if you put the device up to a sardine, most people pick up the sardine at about a 30 D over T or 15 D over T if they can't smell very well.

Noting that all of us have different sense of smell and so folks who are more sensitive might pick up these things at a lower threshold whereas people who don't smell very well will pick them up at a higher threshold. So garlic, it's hard to say that smell of garlic when you do drive through Gilroy is pretty pungent. I'm hesitant to assign a number to it because we just haven't done that in real life but I see why you're equating garlic to carpenteria.

Correct.

Yeah good point. Okay next question or comment on this topic?

I have more comments but just Peter DeGray. On odor dilution to threshold, my understanding is that there's an elaborate report and study done on behalf of the county by GeoSyntec and there were recommendations coming out of that. Is that study that the county paid for and used to develop an odor dilution threshold being used here to determine what the value should be? Or are we just kind of throwing numbers out there, because I feel like that study should be pertinent and referenced in any comments about a odor dilution threshold standard. I think it also included the standards used in other municipalities based on a receptor and how that has worked in other municipalities specifically using the nasal ranger So I'm hoping that that report will come out and be part of any development of new odor ordinance.

Thank you.

Mr. Dupre, I believe that the study is in the record and it's probably information that discretionary decision makers will be using to determine what we ultimately land on. Thank you.

This is wired, so I'm trying not to trip everybody as I go.

Oh you're going to hold it? Sorry. My name is Anna Carrillo and I have a couple of points. So on the geosynthetic study they have about five different communities that they measured. They have it from seven-five So, it's in the report. I've seen it a couple of times already. My concern on using at less than 7 over D over T... The problem is the calibration on the nasal ranger only goes from 2, 4, 7, 15, 30, 60 and it's very difficult to calibrate. I mean, I was at the Planning Commission meeting where Someone came up and spoke how difficult it is to do the calibration. So I would prefer, my suggestion should be zero as far as beyond the property line because it needs to be inside the property.

Thank you very much.

For those and I don't, we don't need to get into specific names of operations but where there are carbon scrubbers. My hope is that if everyone 12 months from now there won't be smell at the property line because everyone will have scrubbers that doesn't have them already and a lot of people do. A lot of operators do so i'm just curious uh if anyone has an experience without getting personal or anything at the property line where there are scrubbers would you say it's zero?

It's a sincere question

Hi, I'm Paul Ekstrom. I live into Manzanita Street which butts up to a major grow. We had horrible cannabis odor for years and years through the help of the Santa Barbara Coalition for Responsible Cannabis. The grower agreed to put in carbon strovers. I think it's a 90-95% improvement Do you want to explain how close your house is to the grout? My kitchen window and dining room window is 65 feet away from the fiberglass plastic walls of the cannabis grow.

So that's a pretty good, that's great okay

Hi, I'm Mike Palmer. I'm the operator at Everbloom where Paul was just talking about but for the record I know we've been looking at all the technologies since the very beginning all the way back to the misting system and we were working with engineers before COVID to work on engineering these carbon scrubbers prior to the litigation but We do understand and appreciate litigation, and I think everything worked out great. But really it comes down to having a carbon system that many different companies can engineer. Basically you have to have, it's not rocket science but a carbon bed that's properly engineered with the fan that goes over it. And you have a single pass 90% efficacy over that single pass and has to maintain over time.

So the reason carbon wasn't viable in the beginning is because it saturated so quickly, especially with the humidity. So we worked with engineers and they developed a system and by the way no interest, no financial interest ownership or anything in any odor control company because people have asked in the past but We need a solution that would be viable to stay in business to where we didn't have to change the carbon out after Every three to six months because it does start to saturate typical carbon. So these have been engineered per the engineers words to last at least 25 years without having to change the carbon, although we only guarantees them I think for 15 but there are pre filters and things that do need to be cleaned a couple times a year but It really just comes down to a properly engineered carbon system.

It can be all different shapes and sizes, and the turnover of air in the greenhouse to reduce the emissions before they leave the greenhouse. And then you get the results that Paul was talking about. As far as the D over T, unfortunately, as odor experts will tell you that they do odor studies and have to. Unfortunately I know way too much about odor and the compounds that make it and everything else now but Basically anybody will fail even if there's not cannabis at below a 70 over T. You can go into somebody's yard, you can go anywhere so there will be false positives if it's under 70 over T and that's why it's the standard to be over 70 over And I could show you many examples. I could take you guys out there at the nasal ranger and show you guys how it works The Unfortunately, the nasal ranger is the best instrumentation that can be used in town portably and effectively at a low cost unless you get into lab instrumentation and and odor bag sampling which is You can't just do on On the fly, it has to be prepared.

It has to be odor panels. It's very extensive, very expensive and very time consuming but on the note and you guys are welcome to ask me any questions and I'll fill you in but Yeah, the below 70 over T is unfortunately something that even if there's zero cannabis in town people getting false positives.

Thanks Mike. I had a question actually so have you tested it actually at your property line with a nasal ranger?

Yeah we have yeah

and what were the

Well, I mean it's been a long time but you can well we have 12 acres of cannabis that are on our wall too including one of ours that we don't have carbon in yet because we were waiting for power upgrades to be able to move our processing so. Oh they went in okay cool all right sorry I knew we're working on it but we got a power upgrade and um so I mean one of our own properties was contributing I can take a nasal ranger and go into a different town without cannabis. And there's certain plants that are in a lot of people's yards that have that hint of cannabis smell too, it's the same type of skunky smell I grew up with them in my yard so you can get false positives from anywhere.

Unfortunately, but I think as long as the language is says that it's specific to cannabis odor because there are markers for that Then that will create for less ambiguity But it's important that has to be a constituent. That's I can't remember the naming conventions they use for cannabis It can't just be anything you know, you can't just leave it open it could be I smell you know Burger King, McDonald's whatever it is it has to be specific to the cannabis profile.

Yeah

okay so can I just ask Mr. Briggs or other staff if what's coming to us on Tuesday does that specifically say set up up to seven on cannabis odor? Or just odor? Just odor. Yeah,

so chair and commissioners looking at the Ordinance that is being presented next Tuesday It talks about the cannabis odor threshold. It says measurements of cannabis odor from commercial cannabis activities shall not And that's where the Planning Commission is either below seven or equal or not exceed seven So the ordinance has written that it's specific to cannabis odor. I

Okay and since I haven't, does the nasal ranger give you that distinction of what type? Or is that there is that distinction are you able to glean that from this type of technology? Great, and I recognize we have some folks who are so deep into this and some that are just here because they care about things. So I'm trying to straddle both and hopefully we're tracking here.

Next one, yeah?

Hi, I'm Jamie Collins. I am coming at it from a more human side of things and I went from living by the beach to living next to a cannabis farm and low tide smelled just as terrible as some of the cannabis farms during certain times of years but I think maybe asking the supervisors to start with step one which sounds like the carbon scrubbers are doing well for some of our farms rather than also including that odor thresholds at this point in time and wait and see how that goes And primarily that's because from my understanding, if we do move forward with an odor threshold that's not conducive to both the neighborhoods and the growers then that's gonna put our growers out of business. And I would like to point out that there is not a lot of minority in this room and Carpinteria is primarily a minority migrant population who work in these farms and so who need jobs and we can't lose them.

I'm

Dave Saragosa, I'm a native Carpinterian. We live about 75 yards from the Everbloom farm and about say about three quarters of a mile from Mr. Engstrom and it's still strong And my wife, when she goes out in the morning and cleans the patio table it's got that green film on it. So it's not doing any good for our end. We can hear the fans sometimes so I don't know if that has something to do with the odor but it's really strong early in the morning and late at night or when they decide to open up the louvers on top of things and it stinks like hell.

Thank you.

There are three other operations that are close by. I'd have to know where you lived, but they're putting off a considerable amount of order including one of ours. But it sounds like we've almost got the scrubbers installed.

OK. We'll go in right

here. It's hard to hear. Can we get the same volume? Like when they talk back there, we can hear it. OK.

We'll project we'll work on our stage voices.

Hi, my name is Nancy Robertson and I can't tell you how much I appreciate you doing this. You're a total breath of fresh air. This has been a very long journey. I remember Ana Carrillo and I at the Planning Commission on January 22nd 2020 And it was before that, that we started speaking. Unfortunately I'm one of the ones that's allergic to the smell but my question today is what time of day do you go out and test?

I know the odor vents are open at maybe 6.30, it varies every day until like four in the morning or whatever and you get up in the morning and you smell it but then by the time the people that I've talked to that have gone out to the farms, it's during their time at work and it's not after hours so is there a specific time that this can be varied looked into? Thank you.

Yeah, I know that was discussed at the Planning Commission. Did you all land at sort of a window if nasal rangers are in fact the technology that we go with?

Madam Chair and members of the board, this was discussed at the Planning Commission and we did not land on a specific time. We wanted to explore that further in the best way to provide a responsive staff support to complaints that we receive. Typical practice is that, you know, we will respond to complaints and based on the way the ordinance is written we have an anticipation to respond the next day but we're willing to explore times of response as needed.

I know we're going to get next category is the technology used to measure odor. So maybe we can get a little more into that because nasal rangers obviously is specific to time.

Yeah, my name is Lionel Neff. I'm a member of the coalition. I've lived in Carpinteria for 38 years

And it used to be a great place to live. It's getting better now and I want to thank you all for being here, it really inspires us. As far as the odor goes there is a distinction between the vapor phase system which in other words when they open the vents in the morning or late at night and odors emitted its addressed with the EcoZorb or the Fogcoast, so they're trying to deal with the odor once it's outside of the building.

However if a proper amount of scrubbers are put in the building, the odor is addressed inside the building before it escapes. So that's what makes the difference. The other thing is you have to have a proper amount of scrubbers and the manufacturer's requirement is 10 per acre for the ones that Mike here was referring to. Thank you.

Any more questions on or any more comments or questions about odor thresholds? Okay, so we got a few more on odor thresholds.

Thank you. Oh, you're gonna hold it? Gail Hurst in Carpinteria. Zero there should not be detectable odor. It should not be leaving the building. It's pretty simple zero and I'm not sure nasal ranger is actually designed to be able to detect that.

Thank you

Hi, I'm Jim Monoyan. I'm the president of the Polo Condos Board. We live across the street from Island Breeze and I first of all like to say that I appreciate what's been going on in the last couple of months too we have some hope and things are improving. I'd like to speak to the older thresholds issue. I think that there's an argument to be made for seven it certainly is what's used in the Denver area And from what we can tell, the Denver area has been pretty successful not only with their policies but with enforcing the policies. That's the key. What we have felt worst about at least we have is that we've had policies that have just not been enforced and we have felt helpless for a number of years I agree with Nancy, and she and Anna and I have been pushing on this issue for five years.

And it's about time something's changed. So I guess the seven would make sense if we had confidence in the nasal ranger, and as Anna has said, the way it's calibrated. But if there are issues with that then it seems to me as though the number oughta be lower. In any case, we don't wanna smell it outside the property line.

I just want to thank everyone this has been a really respectful 45 minutes so keep it going. Really appreciate it.

Hi, I'm Marilee Peebles and I live a mile from G&K and Autumn Brand and we still smell it. My question is I think there's going to be a lot of problems with the nasal ranger you know if it's not gonna be outside of The greenhouse when they're open, how are they going to be there at four in the morning? The numbers between one and seven seem to be a problem. When Geosyntec came up with seven, they used that as a Colorado. I asked them if they had ever been to Colorado. They said no.

I just think that we should try for zero, we should try for something better than nasal ranger. And what happens if you do accept four or number seven and the neighborhoods are still smelling? Is there a repercussion?

Let's go over this side.

Graham again. I think the county hired, not the industry. This is not an industry generated report. The county picked an engineer. Those engineers are experts in odor. The county commissioned the report. The county paid for the report. Those engineers came back with a recommendation. The recommendation was a nasal ranger and it was at when nuisance starts over seven to ignore that report.

Myself included I'm not an expert in odor certainly no one certified me. I think that probably applies to most of the people in the room The county did hire somebody who is certified who is expert and that was their recommendation To the comments about zero if the odor threshold is zero then the oceans illegal cutting your lawn is illegal Making bread as illegal roses are as illegal odor threshold of zero does not actually exist So the question is where does something? Become intrusive into other people's rights and the experts answered the question for us. They said when it exceeded seven

Okay, thank you And we're also kind of moving into the next category which I think is fine Which is the technologies to detect odor threshold? so if I might just either one of the first two odor odor threat odor or the Technologies if we can move there