UnGovr Transcript
iHow this transcript is madeUnGovr transcribes the official recording with automated speech-to-text, separates speakers by voice, and matches voices to the seated roster. Names and attributions are AI estimates and may contain errors.Verify any quote yourself: click anywhere in the transcript and the official video jumps to that exact moment, so you can check any quote against the recording.0:24 – 0:3310 turns
Welcome, everyone who's finally gotten here. We're going to open the meeting of the Montecito Planning Commission. And David, if you could make the TV announcement?
Absolutely. All right, absolutely. Did you want to do the pledge first?
Oh, I thought we did that earlier.
Roll call, called by Clerk of the Board
Show transcript
And for those online, just raise your virtual hand and I'll call on you. Seeing no hands and seeing no one rise, we should move forward. Mr. Chair, should I read the first item into the record? Yes sir. Okay great thank you. The following is a hearing I'm sorry, the Montecito Planning Commission will conduct a workshop on ministerial permitting and streamlining ordinance amendments and will receive in file of report from the planning and development department regarding proposed amendments to the Montecito Land Use and Development Code and coastal zoning ordinance related to ministerial permitting and streamlining. Provide feedback to staff regarding the proposed amendments and determine that the recommended actions are not a project that is subject to environmental review under the California Environmental Quality Act pursuant to CEQA guidelines section 15378B5
Good morning Mr. Chair, members of the Commission I am not giving a director's report today but I am here to introduce the item that you'll be hearing in this workshop so back in 2022 late 2021 we had been working with the Board of Supervisors on the development A program that would work on streamlining our processes and simplifying them where possible. And as part of the budget hearings at that time, the board committed to giving the Division for Long-Range Planning an extra planner in order to carry out this three phased process.
We have so far today completed the first two phases and that involved what we call sort of these technical updates, which brought into alignment outdoor lighting standards, sign regulations. And we updated the shopping center zone district or actually we eliminated it because it was sort of an outdated zone district. So this was the beginning of us trying to sort of clean up the ordinance and streamline things for applicants where it makes sense.
The second phase of the process was in order to implement our housing element, it was a program. We had to modify pretty substantially the multifamily zone district to be able to accommodate the densities that are required for us to meet our regional needs allocation for housing units that are given to us by the state which we did. We essentially overhauled something that had been designed in the 1980's To bring it current. So now those zone districts are more consistent with what other jurisdictions are doing and Consistent with the densities that we need to be able to accommodate We also made changes to our commercial zone district And we did many things to streamline our processes and eliminate redundancies in our code as part of that phase two process and that was completed in 2025 And we are now on our third and final phase of this process.
And this is a really important element, this is something that the board talked to me about when they hired me as director. They wanted to create a greater number of ministerial permits truly ministerial permits. The county is currently an outlier In that we don't have, we have very very few truly ministerial permits. And so this effort is to bring us into greater alignment with what other jurisdiction is doing and to simplify the process for simple projects and keep complexity for the more complex process.
We went to the board for a, and the staff may talk about this in another slide, we went to the Board of Supervisors for a briefing on this In the spring May yeah in May To get direction from them. And so they gave us we brought some ideas to them They gave us good direction and then this is the next step of that process Is to have these workshops with the Planning Commission and then come back for action I think this process of having a workshop worked really well for phase two and Because it gives the Commission an opportunity to review the materials, ask questions. We can if we need to we can come back But it's it gives you an opportunity to discuss the item before you have to take any action on it So today we have Ben Singer who is our planner on it Alex Tuttle our deputy director and then we have our consultant Martha Miller Who is going to be online this morning?
to give you the presentation. So with that I'm going to turn it over to Alex Tuttle and Ben Sandler.
Would it be all right if we had some kind of, I appreciate that we're talking about the presentation but if we had some questions for you about the guidance process that the county has given is now that right time or
am I? You can certainly ask me any questions you would
like. I don't want to jump ahead if that was a...
I'm curious as
to there We are a funny kind of body to exist, meaning you were hired to run the county planning and development process. And you take your guidance from the five County Board of Supervisors as one should but that Our existence up here was the acknowledgment that our community kind of gets handled a little differently. And that was why they created the Montecito Planning Commission, and the Community Plan, and the code, and all of that.
When you all I appreciate for technical updates like outdoor lighting standards or shopping centers, why those are more countywide kind of, they make a light is a light regardless of where it is. But as we drift into ministerial permitting on housing I'm curious as to whether or not either the county gave guidance that was different for Montecito than it was for the rest of unincorporated county or does Does Supervisor Lee as the first district in which and the person appointing all of us, does he separately give you kind of like Montecito
0:33 – 0:3914 turns
I
understand where you're going. And there may be some value in you watching the hearing with the board,
to get an understanding of sort of how they were talking about the changes to the different communities. Overall, I think the board wants to try and be as consistent as possible throughout the county but they do recognize the unique qualities of some areas and so there are little differences I would say Between what's going to be happening in the broad area of the county and what will happen in Montecito.
So there will probably be differences, what happens on the Gaviota Coast potentially than what happens in the rest of the county. So there are little tweaks and we did work with individual board members after that briefing to talk to them about their unique communities and kind of the things that they were concerned about And to the greatest degree we could, we tried to work those concerns into the recommendations.
Mr. Tuttle and Mr. Singer and Ms. Miller can talk to you a little bit about how this is slightly different than it's going to be necessarily like in Goleta or Summerland or whatnot so So yes, there is a recognition of the unique communities But also a broad desire to kind of try and keep it as consistent as possible Because one of the issues I think that county has struggled with is having as many community plans as we do, which there's value in. But we have different policies addressing the same issues and they're all slightly different.
And that has created complexity in our process. And so what we are trying to do is bring things into alignment to the greatest degree we can while respecting the uniqueness of the communities.
And I do appreciate that, and I understand how this is kind of a prudential matter. It's hard to write a policy about how to write policy. There's some level of intellect and judgment that just has to overlay the process. I understand that there are multiple community plans but Montecito is unique because it has its own commission and planning code that is kind of a document unto itself. And so we are, I am curious as to whether or not I don't always follow the proceedings of the other bodies of government of Santa Barbara County as closely as I should. I'm curious as to whether or not there was any Montecito specific guidance that you that you were giving that I probably should be aware of from either the county level or from a board member, Lee level.
What I don't want to do is if I'm asking a bunch of questions or probing a topic, my goal is not to be crosswise to the intention of the County Board of Supervisors while still trying to represent the uniqueness of Montecito today. If that makes sense as a question?
Yes, Commissioner Miller through the Chair I understand that and we can share with you if If we observe something that we think is inconsistent with what the board's direction was, we can share that. We can say we understand that comment. We think that it might not be consistent with the first district's direction or the board's direction and so then it'll sort of give you some boundaries to work within.
So and you may come up with a recommendation that is different and the board will have to consider that
And I appreciate what you're saying and I appreciate the space that you are allowing us in that regard, but also ultimately like It is the board's vision that dominates here. And so if we are operating in a unconsidered or kind of white space kind of conversation, it's very different than the board has said this and I may not individually like it but that is a lot less space for discussion at that point is what I'm trying to get at.
Understood and I think you are correct. I mean the board has given direction The board has had a briefing, they've given direction. They have told us what they want us to do. They have asked us to make identify approaches or processes that might be slightly different in some communities to accommodate for the issue you raise about each community is unique And indeed you have in Montecito a separate code and a separate planning commission. But again, you're right there has been an overarching direction from the board to create more ministerial permits To make the process simpler for simple projects So that is the overarching message from the board and I do encourage you to watch the hearing As I think it'll give you a flavor and you can do that before you have to take action on the item Yes.
Commissioner Kearns?
Could you give us the date of that particular hearing, please?
May 12th. Thank you. Commissioner Kearns through the chair. 20th.
20? This year I believe it was
May 12, 2026.
No, it was this year. I'll send David the link to the materials from it and then he can disseminate that out to everyone.
Thank you. I think that would probably assist all of us. Yeah.
Yes.
0:39 – 0:5510 turns
Just to add to that, we did attach to the memo or for the packet that you have today. We did attach the board letter that was provided as part of that briefing as well as a copy of the minutes and other minutes aren't entirely helpful and lack some of the context but so you do have that information.
And just to add one more thing I would say that Supervisor Lee Thought a lot about what he envisioned to be the best process for Montecito while trying to remain as consistent as possible. So we worked with him and his staff, I think twice we met with them to go over different items. He's given it consideration.
It can be because you want equal treatment
for applicants.
Yeah I mean, I only asked this or mentioned this as a comment because you know an inconsistent policy just leads to more litigation so I'm very interested in understanding how we're different than someone else as far as streamlining a condition of approval
Mr. Chair, commissioners I think as we walk through the presentation will hopefully provide shine a light on some of those differences and provide a greater context as to how our recommendations align with the board's direction while also kind of respecting some of the desires for the Montecito community and it will particularly come in in the context of design review so I think that's what we'll have a lengthy conversation about that
I have one more question and that is actually a comment. In going through the materials for today, I think of particular interest at least to me is how the ministerial process will affect the design review and the procedures for, for example, Thank you.
All right I think if there's no further intro questions then we'll go ahead and hand it off to our consultant Martha Miller who will be presenting the rest of the material remotely.
Great, thank you. It's good to be before you presenting this portion of the project today. I'm going to start with a little background of the county is existing permitting and design review process so for permitting there's five basic types. The first is exemptions and that's where there's no approvals required. So this is limited development that's exempt from planning permits as such exemptions.
is not appealable and there's no noticing. Then there are zoning clearances, and zoning clearances are where staff is looking just at the project for compliance with the code. Does it meet all of the requirements of the code? And if so then it's approved. So this zoning clearances also are appeal- are not appealable and there's no noticing. It's truly ministerial Land use permits are also where staff is evaluating the project for compliance with the code. Land use permits are appealable and there is public notice.
Coastal development permits, similar in that they're staff approvals unless the development is within a coastal appeals jurisdiction. Coastal development permits are appealable and there is public notice. And finally, discretionary permits. This includes development plans, conditional use permits. These are also appealable and require public notice. So in your code, and Lisa mentioned this land use permit or an appealable coastal development permit is required for all uses listed as permitted except as specifically identified And that kind of blanket county wide requirement for an appealable planning approval for nearly all development on that countywide basis is really unique to Santa Barbara County. Other jurisdictions typically tie that comparable permit requirements to specific triggers, things such as A certain amount of grading and development on slopes, development and sensitive resource areas.
And typically not kind of that blanket county wide requirement for an appealable planning permit for most all developments. In addition to the permitting requirements, there's requirements for design review. And in Montecito, review of projects by the Montecito Board of Architectural Review is really required for all development with certain limited exceptions to that.
County-wide, and I'm going to talk about in the coastal zone because a portion of Montecito is within the coastal zone. So the amendments that are before you also address the coastal zoning ordinance. So in the coastal zone outside of Montecito there's review of projects by other boards of architecture review for most discretionary and commercial development and residential development in certain areas. So residential development And in many of the community plan areas.
So that's a little difference between Montecito and countywide and coastal zone specific. So this was discussed a little bit, but just to kind of recap in May staff presented options to the board for streamlining and downshifting permit requirements and emphasis on making smaller projects Eligible for ministerial approval, focusing primarily on single family and limited commercial development.
And at that meeting board provides some encouragement to staff to make significant changes making the permit process easier more predictable without compromising compliance with land use and resource protection policies. Some of the direction included creating a truly process for smaller projects, establishing a simple review process for projects that don't require kind of a significant level of review to verify compliance with county standards.
Create a non-appealable permit pathway for certain single family and residential accessory development and limited commercial development, and incorporate limited differences in the process for certain communities Maintaining certain permit requirements within Gaviota, different design review requirements for specific areas. Recognizing that some areas do warrant some differences but overall trying to limit those differences in process. So following that direction we've developed a set of proposed amendments and We've categorized those into four broader categories and I'll go through a summary of each one of them, beginning with the exemptions. So the county zoning ordinances include a list of specific development and uses that don't require the issuance of a planning permit.
Standards still apply they still have to meet all the standards other permits may be required But a planning permit is not required. Examples of this kind of exempt development is fences and walls under a certain height, small accessory structures up to 120 square feet, limited grading interior alterations, things such as this. So the proposed amendments revise and expand this list to exempt certain projects that don't otherwise require benefit from permit review.
These include changes of use between non-residential permitted uses that don't result in a reduction of existing parking. So if you have an existing permitted non-residential use and you're changing to another permitted non-residential use, and you're not reducing parking, that's exempt from planning permits. Also for accessory structures, increasing the size of exempt accessory structures from 120 to 250 square feet and allow some limited utilities. So it still can't be habitable but you could have a light or a sink, some limited utilities.
Exempting most pools, pool equipment, certain equipment for soil remediation And certain mechanical equipment such as HVAC, generators, EV chargers, freestanding poles and water tanks up to 5000 gallons. And so this list of exemptions is really consistent across these proposed amendments are consistent countywide Montecito and the coastal zone. So the next category for the amendments is defined uses and permit requirements. So these are the definitions of land uses, where they can be located and what type of permit is required.
So currently, the uses allowed in associated permit requirement in each zone district is listed or presented in extensive tables. The tables have been amended numerous times over the years but haven't really been comprehensively updated. Some of the use types are very specific, overly specific. And overall the amendments are geared to make the use allowances tables more consistent, more concise and then updating with modern permitting requirements and updating with a sense of the direction of the board.
So first we looked to simplify and consolidated some use definitions where possible, grouping like uses into broader categories that are based on common function or characteristics. Kind of trying to get away from the overly specific to a more broader group so that they can kind of stand the test of time. It also helps to increase consistency by treating like uses similarly Reduces the need for future amendments to accommodate again these new similar use types and overall reducing redundancy. So we had now is sometimes a use will be included in a broader use group and then also called out separately as an individual use, and so there's that redundancy within there.
So where possible, we consolidated some use definitions. And then we went through the tables for the amendments Where we could downshift permit requirements for uses that don't warrant a higher level of discretionary review. So in Montecito, examples include things in the CV district, cultural institutions, things such as libraries and museums. Downshifting that from a conditional use permit to a land-use permit Theaters in the CN district downshifting from a conditional use permit to a land use permit.
The mixed-use projects with a residential component, downshifting that in both the CN and CV districts from the CUP to the LUP. Also certified farmers markets which are also subject to specific standards some of these other uses are as well. Also downshifting fences more than six feet in height in front and interior setbacks or fences greater than eight feet in height in other areas. Downshifting that review requirement from a conditional use permit to a land-use permit. Additionally, in the coastal zone but not applicable to Montecito part of the Coastal Zone Ordinance, some downshifting including in the C1, C2, CHPI districts certified farmers markets from a minor conditional use permit to a coastal development permit. Also going through the tables, the amendments add some uses, some use allowances that fit the purpose of the districts but previously weren't listed as allowed.
This includes in the CB districts and dance martial arts music studios fitness and health facilities in your commercial zones A park and a playground in CN, and theaters in the CV district. So adding some limited uses. And then removing some uses that are listed as allowable but really aren't compatible with the purpose of the particular zone district. These are some of those kind of older uses have been carried over time and haven't been removed from those districts. So one example includes in the residential commercial zones, the allowance for hospitals to be located there.
So those are really allowed in other more appropriate zoning districts. And then finally some more cleanup including removing uses that are listed in the tables but actually aren't allowed. So just cleaning up making those tables a little more concise We did leave in some explicit disallowances in certain zones for sensitive kind of uses things such as short-term rentals where they're currently not allowed. Where we wanted to explicitly have that stated very clearly. Do
you have the list of what those things are? I mean, I'm tracking what you're saying but So maybe I'm not tracking what you're saying. What you're saying is that elsewhere in the code, there were things that were not permitted but in the tables were still listed and so the code was internally contradictory to itself? Am I understanding what you are communicating?
0:55 – 1:0125 turns
Do
you want to
go ahead Martha?
Go
ahead.
Go ahead. Commissioner Miller if you're the chair, if I'm understanding what you're asking is this about I guess the third of these they remove uses or is this about one of the others just to make sure I know?
Yeah well I'm interested in the full list on both but it's the third of these that I'm wanting to make sure I mean understanding intellectual concept of it before we talk about the items within that would be on the list
Understood. Yes, so for the third one these were uses that in the use table you would have a use listed defined in the table and then shown as not allowed in the zones kind of across the board in that table So for example your commercial zones at CN and CV and you would have a use I can't think of one off the top of my head, but it would say, you know
fireworks
manufacturing Fireworks manufacturing not allowed in either zone Okay And we kind of took that and looked at that and said Is that necessary to have in this table if it's not allowed in either zone? The presumption of the code is that, if it is not listed in a zone, it is not allowed in that zone. So having that presumption of not listed and not allowed and then also listing it and not allowing it was kind of just a redundancy that adds text to the code and adds length to all these tables. And for most of them things we felt could be taken out of the tables just to make them shorter and clearer with the exception of a few again like short-term rentals where we know that can be more kind of sensitive topic that we want to really be even redundantly clear where that is not allowed.
So what is being removed is things that were previously listed as, as allowed but that the code has been revised to not allow or that it was being listed as You know, I can have a chicken coop with six chickens but no ostriches. And the idea is that we don't have to say no ostriches because as long Is it a double negative here or I guess, I'm wanting to make sure I'm understanding. I don't mean to be dense but I'm not sure I'm getting it.
It's closer to two sections saying that a use is not allowed so you have section at the beginning saying these aren't allowed and then you come back and another section says these aren't allowed So it's just redundant to have both of those. So the second time we are removing that saying, we really don't need to be so explicitly clear for each of these spelled out uses that they aren't allowed when we can just take them out and then the presumption is that they're not allowed because they're not listed.
So if a use is not allowed in zones across the board in a table, you know again commercial is an easy one because you have two of them. You have a table it has two commercial zones that long list of everything in it and you'd have a bunch of uses that just say not allowed in CN, not allowed in CV. And we're looking at that saying this doesn't need to be in the table because it's not allowed on either one of them. If you take it out of the table then it's no longer listed as an allowed use and the assumption is that it is therefore not allowed
Commissioner Miller through the chair, I guess I would just add that it's really an artifact of when the code Has sort of evolved over the years from its earlier iterations where we didn't actually have use tables. We had just It was a different structure or framework for our code but when the Montecito Land Use and Development Code and land use development code were established in I think it was 2007 from a prior version of our zoning codes that created these use tables and part of what happened was these uses got put into these tables but in some cases they were added but still as not allowed use. So, it has just added unnecessary volume to our zoning code when it's a use that wasn't previously allowed is still not allowed in those particular zones and so it's really just a cleanup.
It's a non-substantive cleanup.
So the assumption is the only things allowed in a particular zone are the things that are listed?
Are
listed. In our never ever changing world what happens if a use comes
up? Well, that's... How does that get... That's a great question Commissioner Kubiak or Mr. Chair I want to start by saying thank you broader categories, we can say okay well that use fits within this broader category so it would be allowed. And if it doesn't fit
within one of your categories how does it get
administered? Then then it would be not allowed So there's basically a use determination provision in our code that says if a use is proposed that's listed the director... That seems like a
governmental foible There may be a use that comes up that should be allowed
Well if there is a use that comes up, there's a provision that says okay is this substantially similar in character or nature or intensity to a use that is listed and if it is then we can go through that permit process. But if it is not substantially similar then it would be not allowed and if someone wanted to try to make it allowed then they'd have to go through a zoning code update at that point.
Okay but there's a process?
There is a process. There's always a process
I understand that. Thank you.
Going back to section 2, I appreciate the example of no hospitals and residential. I guess the commercial thing impacts Montecito less but what are other examples of things that are being deemed non-compatible? What is that list
1:01 – 1:079 turns
Commissioner Miller through the chair. Another example would be like a fairgrounds in the Resource Management Zone District of Montecito, which I think is currently listed as a CUP but I don't think there would ever be a scenario where we would think a fairgrounds was an appropriate land use and resource management zone district to Montecito or an airport. I think airport is currently allowed with a CUP Most all zones within the county and there are certain areas of the county where an airport would not be an appropriate use even through a CUP process. So we went through and tried to remove those where there would never be a scenario where we would deem that to be a compatible use.
I'm sorry, it may be in a packet and I just didn't see it but is there that kind of list of all of the crazy and obscure and no longer appropriate?
Commissioner Miller to the chair, we did not put together a list kind of broken down in this way. In the packet in the ordinances there are the tables as part of the ordinance amendment all of the land use tables are spelled out and then the uses that are crossed out generally that were allowed at some point like example the fairgrounds say if it was allowed by some use and its crossed out the general thought is that those are the uses that we are removing from the allowed use list because they're not compatible with the exception of some like we talked about before that we're combining so you know when removing library but then you see cultural institution being added or combining some but we did not put together specific lists of kind of all the uses that were being changed related to these.
Okay
and I would say this is much less of an incident in in Montecito in the MLUDC than it is in the LUDC So this is very limited in Montecito where you had these carryover kinds of uses. The examples in the LEDC are more extensive. Okay, so for design review So in Montecito, the review of projects by the Montecito Board of Architectural Review or MBAR is required for all development again with limited exceptions. In the coastal zone a little different where there's review of board of architectural review for most discretionary commercial development and the residential development in those certain areas ridgeline hillsides and certain community plan areas So the amendments cover three areas. One, expanding development and uses that are exempt from design review.
Establish a new administrative design review process. This is only applicable to the coastal zone outside of Montecito so that administrative design review process while I'll talk about it doesn't apply to Montecito. And then also establishing thresholds to identify projects that would be subject rather than our review. Again, applicable only to the coastal zone outside of Montecito.
And sorry to interrupt Martha but so the next couple slides will highlight like you know back to your earlier question one of the key differences in terms of how we're moving forward with Montecito relative to some other areas of the county. So as Martha speaks to the next couple slides and goes into further detail, we can highlight some of those differences for you so you can get a sense how Montecito is being treated differently in this instance.
So the proposed amendments applicable to Montecito are expanding the development and uses exempt from design review, and there's really two things. One is detached accessory structures less than 800 square feet located behind another building or on the rear half of the lot So that's a proposed new exemption from design review. Also limited additions to non-residential structures.
So exempting from design review additions that are 10% of the existing square footage with a minimum of 500 square feet and maximum of 5,000 square feet that can be exempt. It's not overly limiting on smaller projects and doesn't allow too much on larger projects. Those limited additions to existing non-residential structures would be exempt from design review.
Is the scope
of that 500 to 5000, is that number applying to the initial size of the non residential structure? Or is that the size of the 10% increase allowed?
That's the size of the 10% increase.
So you could do a 5,000 square foot addition on a hypothetical 50,000 square foot building without a permit? Without approval. Design review. Design review. Thank you. So that's the way to understand that?
1:07 – 1:1412 turns
Mr. Chair, Commissioners sorry I do have to and Martha let me just interject real quick so I think there's maybe a little miscommunication with this note so in addition to the detached accessory structures and the non-residential structures there is a proposed exemption that would exempt new or remodeled single story dwellings up to 2,500 square feet or additions to of that similar 10% of the existing square footage, or a maximum of 500 square feet. So I apologize for a little confusion but that is proposed exemption would be for single-story dwellings up to 200 and up to 2,500 square feet or additions to those additions or remodels with additions up to 500 square feet or 10% whichever is less. What was incorrect in the memo was on the detached accessory structures that had listed at 500 square feet but the intention and what was written in the code was 800 square feet and that is, in terms of comparing that to Montecito or from Montecito to elsewhere County that 800 square foot exemption for detached accessory structures is proposed to be across the board countywide.
Can I just ask for a quick clarification? So are we talking about the note at the bottom of the screen?
Yes, that note and I think it's created, sorry a little bit of confusion but in addition to those first two bullets so just restate the proposal is to exempt single-story single family dwellings up to 2,500 square feet from design review.
But that exemption is not, maybe I'm not understanding the note. I read the packet to say that remodeled single-story dwellings up to 2,500 square feet was being proposed as an exemption and now this note is saying it's not being proposed.
And so I guess what I'm trying to say is that note should not have been added.
This note
is incorrect? Yes.
Okay thank you.
I believe what's explained in the memo is accurate
So then the amendments that are applicable to the coastal zone outside of Montecito, again these are things that would not apply in Montecito. Our design review exemptions Other single family residences and accessory structures that meet certain criteria, including being single story under certain square footage and located outside of certain areas. The coastal zone outside of Montecito also has an administrative design review process where there's design review by the director no notice, no hearing not appealable still needs to meet design guidelines findings still must be made As the projects that are subject to that administrative design review, rather than the Board of Architecture Review would be amendments to existing development plans.
Signs except those that are part of an overall sign program or otherwise a project that's otherwise going to the BAR and then certain single family and accessory development again located outside of some sensitive view corridor areas or on a lot adjacent to Amendments applicable to the coastal zone, but not applicable in Montecito. And then the fourth category is ministerial review.
So the most common permit requirement, especially for smaller projects on a county wide kind of basis is a land use permit in the inland areas and a coastal development permit in the coastal areas. And these approvals require consistent with county policy. They require notice and they are appealable. And again, the Board of Supervisors direction is to establish a simple review process for projects that don't require that significant review to ensure compliance with county standards and policies and create a non-appealable permit pathway for certain single family in residential accessory development. Actually, just to start I'll talk my ministerial review. I'll talk first about the residential portion that I'll talk about the commercial so this is for the residential portion and then on the next slide.
So for the simple review process. In the inland area, there's some difference in the coastal zip area. But in the inland area downshifting small simple single family and residential accessory development to a zoning clearance so from the land use permit to the zoning clearance. And this would be for projects that 1 aren't subject to design review. Located outside of sensitive habitat areas, outside the flood hazard overlay zone that have public or municipal water and sanitary service are on a developed lot or a lot created after 1980 where staff has, the county has records that it was illegally created lot.
Limited amount of grading on slopes less than 20%. Doesn't involve a historic structure or resource and limited trees are removed, and they're replaced at basic ratio. So if you meet all of these criteria that goes through the more simple review process for being checked against consistency with county standards. And then for the non appealable pathway process...
Just a second Martha, Commissioner Curran do you have a question?
Yes I have a question going back to the prior slide about the Board of Supervisors direction. So, to establish a simple review process for projects that do not require significant review so has the staff made a determination of what those projects are or who makes that determination?
1:14 – 1:2025 turns
Commissioner Kerns for the chair. So essentially those thresholds on the next slide are those thresholds indicating that if you're below those thresholds, you would qualify as that simple project. And really, as we were developing those thresholds or those triggers, we were looking at what are the common issues that come up in reviewing applications in terms of evaluating a project for consistency with like resource protection policies, biological resources?
grading quantities things of that nature and these are the often the issues that come up as we're reviewing they can take considerable time. Excellent,
that's helpful.
And so essentially if a project can meet all these fairly stringent or rigorous criteria then it would kind of sail through the process and be able to be presumed or assumed consistent with all of our applicable policies
And so that would lead to the second bullet point that is created on appealable pathway.
Well, that would be the symbol. So that's a zoning clearance and then the non-appealable pathway I think Martha will get into on the subsequent slide.
Okay thank you.
One question lots created in the next slide for lots that were created after 1980. So based upon the current zoning code Were any of those lots created after 1980 be considered non-conforming?
There's two acres
zoning in Montecito.
No, they would likely all be considered conforming and you can develop a non-conforming lot so long as it was legally created. You can develop it with the single family dwelling and others permitted development.
The problem that I have with that is a concept if it's a non conforming lot and it's smaller but it was legally created by wind up I don't know how it would be legally created. That's why I'm kind of asking the questions. I'm in a two-acre zone, and there is a lot that was legally created that's one acre or 0.75 acres. Is that lot exempt from design review? Because that becomes problematic. The smaller the lot, the more impact that lot has on its neighbors.
Well going back to the prior criteria, it would only be exempt from design review if it were proposing less than 2,500 square foot single story residence. I got to chew on that for
a while. Okay,
thank you. And Chair Kupiec this may help also the lot created prior to 1980 is primarily a way to work in archaeological concerns that prior to 1980 lots often would not have received a map and would not have received CEQA review as part of a lot split and that 1980 was kind of a clean cutoff for after which we would expect there to have been CEQAs review environmental review on whatever created the lot so that we wouldn't be concerned that there were resources that were not previously reviewed.
So my only question for clarification would be in 1980 when lots or were created, were their lots created in Montecito for residential development less than two acres? Which is the current standard
After 1980, I don't have a good answer to that. I would tend to say no. I don't know exactly when... I would like you to review that
and
send me a text. This is something I'd like to know. We can try to look into that and figure out when the two acre or one acre Montecito has 1e1, so one acre minimum lot size. 2e1 two-acre three four or five actually no four one two three and five So those are the typical minimal minimum lot sizes in Montecito And we can look to see when those minimum parcel sizes were established in Montecito and that would be the date at which any any Any newly created lots would have adhered to those.
So a non-conforming lot would not fall under any of this category?
Well, like I said we'll have to confirm when those minimum lot sizes were established for Montecito and we can come back at the next hearing with that information. Okay
thank you. Quick question follow up that point. Developed after 1980 so a lot before 1980 and then I think there's a number of properties like this where There are conjoined lots that are developed. There might be structures on both lots, but they're not currently separate residences. How does that fit into this description? Are those developed lots or those undeveloped lots?
Do you understand what I'm asking?
I believe what you're saying or asking is if you have a property that is comprised of multiple legal lots and that essentially functions as a single property, if all the development were to be on one of the say two lots and then they were to try to come in and separately develop that undeveloped lot then get captured by this trigger.
And if there are structures on both lots?
If there's structures on both lots, then it would be considered a developed lot. Got it. Thank you.
I have one question. I see that flood hazard overlay is one of the criteria. Is there any provision for high fire zone
1:20 – 1:2917 turns
Excellent question Commissioner to the chair that's something we considered and part of You know projects whether they go through the simple process or a different process, they still get reviewed by the fire department or the flood control district if they're within one of those areas. So because so much of the county is in a high fire or very high fire hazard area. We elected not to include that as one of our thresholds because it would be somewhat a defeat the purpose and so many projects would get pulled in just for that very reason.
So we did not include that as a threshold but that doesn't mean that Fire Department would not be reviewing the project, it would just be happening through the building permit phase So a project would still have to meet all the same standards. It just would not be done through the planning permit.
Can you help me understand where like height and lot size compared to building size restrictions fit in? Is that part of the determination as to whether something goes through design review or is that part of this change in the type of permit that you need.
Certainly Commissioner Rockenbach through the chair. So height is, well let me step back and just say we're not proposing any changes to like height limits or setback requirements so all projects would still have to meet all of those if they're asking for a modification to a height or setback then that would kick them out of the simple process and put them in through a more discretionary review So really where height would come into play would be in the design review trigger.
So long as a project complies with the height limits of the zoning code, height is not really a planning issue it's more of a design issue so that's where height would come into play on the design.
Neighborhood compatibility. I've got a 2,500 square foot residence on a one acre lot and I'm going to build it on a street that has six not historic but let's say George Washington Smith like houses and I decide I'm going to build a Frank Gehry building with chain link fence and green lights and completely different kind of vocabulary. That would normally go under the discussion at an MBAR In terms of whether that building actually fits within the community in a way, fits within its neighborhood.
We're kind of eliminating that type of review.
It's
not appealable.
For if it were a single story less than 2,500 square feet then yes it would be exempt from design review as currently proposed. Right
Mr. Chair I would also I'd amend your example because I can go to Airbnb and purchase a 22,000 square foot modular property that I can drop on the lot
no I think that there's a problem you know this is just a problem for me I understand where County commissioners are going. I think that in terms of my putting my Montecito hat on, I think this is a terrible idea. I think that one of the reasons that we've maintained a certain level of quality in the community is there is this discussion about design. It's not about whether it fits on the lot, it's not about the setback or the height, it's about whether the buildings that we built fit in the community in a positive Well-designed way. And having sat on MBAR for years, I can attest to the fact that almost every project that comes into MBAR for a review process goes out of MBAR a better project than it was when it came in.
So I think we're giving up a lot. I think we're giving up a lot for the sake of expediency and personally, I'm wildly opposed to it There you go.
We have more presentation, yeah?
I actually have one question. I know that outside of Montecito there's some sort of administrative design review process being proposed. Can you just talk about that, what that process looks like a little bit to the extent that maybe that's a discussion we want to have as a proposal for inside Montecito? I don't know the answer to that but but that caught my eye as we were talking earlier
Certainly, Commissioner Rockenbach through the chair. So administrative design review is essentially design review that occurs at the staff level so no public hearing but a project is still reviewed for example consistency with architectural design guidelines for that particular community If you're familiar with the City of Santa Barbara or if you've done any work in the City of Santa Barbara, they have an administrative design review. So it's sort of like a middle tier where projects aren't fully exempt from design review but they are small enough whatever you define as sort of fitting that category that they do not warrant design review by the full appealable design review body I would like to appropriateness But that's not to say that there's not a way to pull that process in.
For example, if you're uncomfortable with fully exempting all single-story 2,500 square foot development, you could instead say well that tier would then become an administrative design review So that it wouldn't be fully exempt, but you wouldn't be able to propose a project that is completely incompatible with architectural design guidelines.
What is an administrative design review? Who's doing that review?
It would be staff and the way we've structured it elsewhere in the county. consult with either a third-party design professional if need be, or can refer a project to the chair of the respective BAR if there's sort of a question as to whether a project is meeting the guidelines or not. But otherwise it would all be done at the staff level.
And how would we put language into this that requires that?
Well, that part's easy. You can leave that part to us. We can add language into the code that would require that.
I mean and I will tell you because I am doing some work with the AIA in terms of things that are going on in the city and this has become an issue in the National American Institute of Architects is recommending to municipalities that government agencies that review and award contracts for construction, for buildings that are going to be built where an architect needs to be hired. That those agencies have architects, could be volunteer, but advisory architects on their panels for those reviews. I think this is not any different.
Not that I don't love staff, but you guys aren't us. And I think that the blended review process An administrative process should have design professionals, I should rephrase that. Should always have design professionals involved. Now I would like to make that mandatory. Thank you.
1:29 – 1:3712 turns
All right getting back into the presentation Martha if you'd like to pick back up on this slide
Yeah, so the simple review process would apply inland for again for the single family development that meets those criteria. Then there is amendments include a non appealable permit pathway for other development and that's in the coastal zone. So where everything in the coastal zone requires a coastal development permit So the amendments include establishment of a non-appealable coastal development permit for projects that, for single family and residential accessory development that are located outside of the Coastal Appeal Jurisdiction and do not exceed county CEQA thresholds. So they're not subject to CEQAs Again, that process would still be for verification of compliance with all county standards and applicable land use policies. But it would be a non-appealable coastal development permit.
The Coastal Zone does still require a Coastal Notice of Non-Appealable Development. In the inland areas, single family and residential accessory development that do not exceed county CEQA thresholds. So again are not subject to CEQAs would be a non appealable land use permit so if they didn't meet all that criteria that we kind of know we can do a simpler review for compliance with County policy but so they don't meet that criteria for the zoning clearance are don't trigger CEQA, they would be subject to the non-appealable land use permit.
So for... The term non appealable I understand prima facie what it means but in my mind there's a little bit of a difference of not appealable say by outsiders in terms of trying to make it easier for the landowner and not letting neighbors It's a different matter in my mind if the ministerial permit is being denied, but it is non-appealable by the applicant.
And is that a distinction in the non-appealable definition?
Yeah and sorry should be more I just use the non appealable as kind of a global term but That LUP could be appealable by the applicant should it be denied. Yes, just others other than the applicant could not appeal the decision on the LUP but that applicants still could.
A denial could be appealed, yeah. Obviously I wouldn't think they'd appeal their own approval but you never know. I do want to just stay on this one for a second and Commissioner Miller spoke to the issue of appeals by neighbors and that was a particular point of interest and concern by the board is wanting to remove the opportunity for We have a lot of sort of unwarranted, unjustified frivolous appeals that we get that can bog down the project, bog down staff, and applicants' desire to build whatever they are trying to build on their property.
And often our experience is that appeals take an inordinate amount of staff time, add to significant delays and costs for an applicant. And the outcome is often no different. And so really a strong interest by the board was to make single family dwelling development In most instances, non-appealable across the board and that's within Montecito as well. Now where appeals would still come into play in Montecito and elsewhere would be those projects that are subject to designer view so the design of the project which is often what people are most interested in would potentially still be appealable but the planning permit would not
To be clear, it would be non-appealable in this simple 2500 square foot scenario or it would be non-appealable for single family residential regardless of size?
It would be non appealable regardless of size. So you would end up Now again the size would come into play on design review so we have these two parallel processes. We have the design review which is a discretionary process that is appealable in its own right and then we have the planning permit, the land-use permit or the zoning clearance and so the idea here is to essentially universally make all single family dwelling development non-appealable So that the planning permit would be non-appealable and the only potential pathway for appeal would be through design review if a project was...
For Montecito, correct.
I have a question on the notice requirements. Can you just clarify for us what the current notice requirements are? And then what the notice requirements would be under the proposed amendments?
Yes, Commissioner Rockenbach through the chair. So the current notice requirements is basically the same both inland and coastal for either a coastal development permit or a land use permit. It's a placard notice. I'm sure you've seen them around town that gets stuck up on the front lawn. And then a mailed notice usually with a brief summary of the project that's sent out to every property owner that's within 300 feet of a property line.
The proposed notice requirements would stay, I think entirely the same in the coastal area for kind of coastal specific reasons. The proposal for inland for non-appealable land use permits would be that noticing would no longer be required. The primary thought being that since it is not appealable there's less requirement that anyone who previously would have had a chance to appeal get the notice.
Is there still an opportunity under the proposed amendments, even if a neighbor is not receiving notice of the project for a neighbor to provide some sort of public comment that would be considered as part of the permit process?
Yes. As part of the permit process, there will still be a staff planner reviewing it. The neighbors are always welcome to reach out to staff planners get more information on the project things like that even without a notice Obviously, with a notice that's kind of how people often hear about it. But if a neighbor is talking with a property owner saying oh you're building something I'd like to learn more about it they're always welcome to reach out to our department to kind of get a better feel of what the project is and give some input.
Knowing that a project is occurring unless they happen to talk to the neighbor or somebody. Otherwise, if it's an undeveloped lot that is being developed and the developer or owner lives in Montana, that neighbor would never know.
1:37 – 1:4416 turns
There is separate noticing requirements for design review, so we're talking about that. Well
we're just talking about the 2,500 square foot
lot. That's just flying under the radar. We're
talking
about that narrow scope of projects that would be exempt from design review, correct?
Well I mean you know just as a commentary and then the only positive thing about this in a way is the likelihood of somebody actually building a 2,500 square foot house in Montecito is pretty slim
I would say
it's not going to happen, but it's less likely to happen just because we don't build projects that are that small when the land value is that high.
And I would say that number was somewhat purposeful. On one hand it's an arbitrary number, but on the other hand it's also a number that from our review of applications in Montecito over the years would capture a very small percentage of projects.
And one final thing that we don't touch on in this presentation because we're not changing it is that there's still a threshold also even for single family, at which point if you're building such a large house it does require a development plan. I believe the threshold is 20,000 square feet? Yeah. So if you're 20,000 square feet or above, you're no longer a land use permit regardless of kind of land use permit. You're now a development plan which we're not changing particularly for that so that would maintain the process of noticed, the development plan is appealable and it would go before your planning commission, I believe.
There's still kind of that upper boundary for some of the largest properties you'll see.
And to add to that, there are so that resource management zone district in Montecito which kind of covers sort of the upper foothill area when you get into the more steeper terrain, kind of like above what would be a good, well above Mountain Drive would be like sort of a good indicator of that. Most of those properties are resource management zoned which have a development plan requirement as well.
Because this is kind of, this is a thing that is happening outside of Montecito but that an administrative or ministerial design review would have a notice requirement or would not have a notice requirement?
The administrative design review would be not noticed and not appealable other than by an applicant if they were to be denied.
All right, Martha back to
you. So then the last set is regarding ministerial review looking at commercial development so. Just kind of a recap, the permit requirements in commercial and industrial zones. So all development requires a land use permit or a development plan for Montecito. All development requires a development plan in the coastal zone outside of Montecito in the C1 and C2 zones. Development under 5,000 square feet is a land use permit. All other development in commercial zones and all development industrial zones currently require a development plan.
Again, Board of Supervisors direction established that simple review process for certain projects that don't require significant review but we're still checking for compliance with county standards and policies and create that non-appealable pathway for limited commercial development. So the amendments have proposed permit requirements in commercial industrial zones, and I'll talk kind of globally and then I'll highlight what's Montecito specific. So having a zoning clearance, a requirement for zoning clearance or non-appealable coastal development permit in the coastal zone for development less than 5,000 square feet in all commercial zones. So that's the simpler review process for limited commercial development.
And then the next tier up would be the land use permit or in the coastal zone. It's an appealable coastal development permit for development in the CN, C1, CH and CB zones. The land use permit is required for development between five and 10,000 square feet. Anything above that would require a development plan and an appealable coastal development permit Development between 5,000 and 50,000 square feet in the C2 and public institutional zones would require a land use permit.
Anything above that would be a development plan. And then developments less than 20,000 square feet in the MRP zone would require a land use permit anything about that development plan. So the applicable zones in Montecito are the CV and CN zones. So moving from a development plan required for all development to having a zoning clearance review for less than 5,000, a land use permit between 5,000 and 10,000 square feet, and then development plan for anything more than 10, 000 square feet.
Just to note in the Montecito coastal zone A coastal development permit instead of that zoning clearance or the land use permit is required and it's for things that require a development plan. A coastal development permit is required in concert with that development plan.
So can I ask a question here? So just to clarify if you could, so a hotel in the CV zone can add 4999 square feet With an MBAR exemption, no notice, no board review, no appeal. Is that correct?
1:44 – 1:508 turns
Commissioner DiLoreto through the chair. So these are not talking about the design review. This is again just focusing on the planning permits. I don't believe we changed the triggers for design review in the commercial zones at all. So that's still always required. This would only be talking about the specific zoning permit. The other thing being this is also cumulative with existing developments, so if you're talking about doing an addition to an existing hotel then it's not that they would go up to 5,000 with the zoning clearance. It would be depending on how large the existing hotel is they could potentially do an addition up to 5000 total square feet of hotel but if they if the existing hotel is 10,000 square feet and they're adding on 5000 or 4999 you're looking at a cumulative about 15,000 square foot of development So that zoning clearance for $5,000 or less is new not with existing.
Correct? So it's different than what you said earlier. No go ahead. That $500 to $5000 threshold for non-residential was I'm not trying to play gotcha but I'm just I am a simple brain who needs kind of and to have these things lined up is that How I had understood that before, and I'm very open to the idea that I'm wrong on this is that was not the cumulative size of the project at 500 to 5,000. That was the amount of the expansion but if I'm hearing what you're saying we're now talking about size of the project?
I believe I'm mistaken on that. I'm sorry, I have three ordinances worth of this floating around and I'm trying to manage to keep square. You were correct of that 10% 500 minimum to 5,000 depending on the existing size addition exemption from You are correct on that. I'm sorry, I forgot that and was thinking only of the zoning permit here so that is corrected. That would be exempt from design review for that there are requirements that it maintains consistency with the existing site. So if you have if you're doing an addition and the additional 5,000 4,000 however much is drastically different from the existing development We would have guardrails on that. You cannot have a mission-style hotel and come in with a 5,000 square foot completely modernist addition to use my
bare architectural knowledge. But if I want to add 5,00 square feet to my hotel with similar hotel rooms or retail space or whatever it might be, I can do that. And then the following year, I can do it again and again and again?
This would all have to be below the FAR that's allowed? They can't add 5,000 square feet to a project if they're already fully saturated there.
Mr. Chair commissioners so on the let's take them separately on the design review Yes in theory a project could do that sort of serial, any project can come in and sort of attempt to do a serial approval over time and find ways to navigate that. I think it's typically not the most efficient and effective way to go about business but we've seen people try to do that So on the design review, there would be sort of cumulative additions that are serial additions that someone could make within those thresholds so long as the additions are consistent. But on the permit side, as Mr. Singer was indicating, those thresholds of square footage thresholds are cumulative. So anytime a project we're trying to do that like Well, let's just take the Rosewood.
They operate under a development plan because of the cumulative square footage. They'd have to come in and be amending their development plan every time because they've already exceeded those baseline triggers and so there would be a discretionary process associated with that.
A follow-up then in the C end zone I'm just want to make sure I understand this There are now, the approval process would shift from this board to the director. Is that correct? For up to 15,000 square feet is that
correct? Yes I believe that is correct. You know this is where it gets a little challenging to talk about this in concept and not in reality. The reality is all of the commercial areas of Montecito are developed there I don't believe there's any vacant commercial land in the upper village or and certainly our resorts CV zones at Rosewood and Biltmore So all of those areas are already in that development plan category and so I believe in reality even though these changes would be make it would be made that the reality is that any additions in the Montecito Village or for our resorts would be at the be amending their existing or revising their existing development plans and depending on You know, we already have in place sort of thresholds for what constitutes and what we call a substantial conformity determination which is at a director level or an amendment to a development plan which goes to the Planning Commission.
So the substantial conformity determination level is pretty narrow. So while yes, there is some limited amount of additions and remodels that could be done at the director level. The majority of work would be kicked into the commission.
1:51 – 2:0312 turns
What is already an established FAR? This wouldn't be
possible. The FAR that we discussed, well we don't have any codified FARs in Montecito and the FAR that may have been mentioned on a prior slide with regard to design review that was outside of Montecito because it's
just the amendment of a development plan.
It would be the amendment
And the amendment of the development plan has to come before us.
Any development plan amendments go before, in Montecito any development plan amendments I believe are commission level.
The one exception to that is if you remember just about a year ago when we were before you for phase two you accepted When someone barely tips over the threshold, I believe it's if they're proposing less than 2,000 square feet of development. Even if it would normally go to your commission, that would go to the director or the planning director. But that's the only case in Montecito that a development plan threshold. Correct.
OK. I appreciate the idea of architectural compatibility with an existing project. To me that sounds a little bit like design review but maybe I'm, could you walk me through the difference between ministerial design review versus a ministerial judgment on design compatibility with.
Sure. Commissioner Miller through the chair. Stepping back for a second, what these sets of amendments are attempting to do is make simple projects easy and make more complex projects go through our fairly rigorous process. And so what we've attempted to do through all of these is identify what is that sort of umbrella or box of what would be considered a simple easy project that shouldn't take six to nine months or longer thousands and thousands of dollars to be able to get through the design review process where you have a $2,000 board of architectural fee just to go in the door.
And then the planning process as well and so the idea there with the limited additions to an existing established commercial project is that if someone came in with say a 500 square foot addition that matches the architectural style of the existing development, they shouldn't have to and go through an extended costly design review process. And so yes there is a design standard that staff would apply to make sure that the design is compatible but for something where it's a small addition to an existing development That's a pretty easy measure to assign to a staff, even if they don't have that architectural expertise.
And if there is a question, if staff are not sure then there is always the ability to refer.
In a common sense way I really do appreciate what you're saying and it all makes sense but that there is not In my mind what's going to happen is 99 times out of 100 it's exactly that and every so often we're gonna have a community fight about some color choice or something. As someone who, to your point about small projects wasting time I am And so, but where I'm going with this is that are there different kind of like.
As a non-professional architect and non-professional planner, I'm more trying to understand kind of a designed threshold or robustness of review that is assessment of compatibility versus administrative. Is administrative design review a similar experience in terms of not just like does this 5,000 square feet match the rest of this versus does this Administrative design review of this house, does it fit the block? If I'm coming across as combative or adversarial that's not my goal. My goal is more comprehension and understanding.
Commissioner Miller to the Chair So right now we as a jurisdiction and as a community Montecito and elsewhere there is a lot of control over design and everything else that anyone chooses to do on their property. Through this process I want to be upfront and candid with you, there has to be some letting go of that control and understanding that let's take architectural details that window proportions, things that architects really love to talk about and trim details and things like that maybe aren't as critical for small development and limited development.
And that there should just be a bit of letting go of some of the level of detail and scrutiny that has historically been applied to projects. So the idea behind this is that the administrative design review or design compatibility, they'd be looking at colors, material styles but would probably not go to the same granular level of architectural detail as what occurs through the Board of Architectural Review design hearings.
A project, if you look through our architectural design guidelines in Montecito and elsewhere it talks a lot about sort of compatibility and scale and siting and design. But a lot of it also goes into some fairly detailed like fenestration issues and articulation and things that for smaller projects, and I think in the view of our department and in the view of the board we need to just let go off a bit.
And we've carefully tried to craft what is sort of that amount of development that would be appropriate to let go of some of that control in Montecito. And that's what you have in the proposed package before you today. And that's going to vary community by community or not community by community, but there are some variations within Some portions of the county outside of Montecito There will be a much larger proportion or percentage of Single-family dwellings that are fully exempt from designer view all single story that meet a particular FAR will be subject, would be exempt from design review outside of Montecito and with some upper limit in Summerlin. But I know there's a lot of concern but just for context what's being presented to you for Montecito is much more I know it's difficult to let go and sort of enter that world of the unknown.
But I can tell you and be clear that that is what the board is interested in doing, and is willing to accept that there might be that 1% of projects they go through. And there'll be a reaction and be like oh no, what did we do? For them, they believe that it's a price worth paying. They can always scale back if they don't like the trend that these changes are taking us, but they're wanting to be ambitious and sort of take a swing at this and not be too conservative in what we're proposing and pushing forward. So that's what we have.
And I genuinely appreciate your straightforward comments. I think they're very well taken and I think that provides a real clarity to process and review, so genuinely thank you. As we are reviewing these there are the technical details of what we are talking about here that are important to review but In as far as I am appointed here by Commissioner, by Supervisor Lee it's to be kind of the sounding board of the Montecito community to this. And as a practical matter everything you've said about efficiency and makes a lot of sense that said I worry about going back to community and getting a cup of coffee in that our community seems to really like its existing process.
And while no one likes it, the fights that they like the kind of the larger community outcome that seems to come from these fights. And I think the larger question here is that this is a financial burden for the county to administer what are at times rather petty fights But whether or not the direction for Montecito is increasing in fees connected with development that self-funds our petty fights versus streamlining the code to reduce the number of petty fights and the cost connected to it.
I think that is the issue I am kind of wrestling with when it comes to board approval of these kinds of items and it's where it's very different than the technical work that you've brought to us before in terms reflecting a community will. Obviously, it's the discretion of the County Board of Supervisors to do what they see fit and my goal is not to be oppositional to them but that the creation of a separate Montecito Planning Code originally was with the idea that a small community gets to have small community petty fights and but that's That's how we like it. And so
2:03 – 2:096 turns
I... I'd say that's how you like it until you're the one having to pay for and go through that process yourself when you're trying to develop your property. Absolutely, 100%. Everyone likes the outcome until you're the one stuck in the middle of it. Far be it from me to tell you how you want sort of present your position on these issues but again what we, we understand the history of Montecito and the desire for good quality design and control over development and no one could argue with the product of all that process that currently exists. So again what we have attempted to do is come up with a fairly narrow set of development We potentially be okay with as a community letting go of some of that control now As a commission making a recommendation to the board you can say We just want the status quo and no changes At all we could look at the thresholds that we've developed And play around with those Or you could Incorporate, you know some of these other ideas or you know concepts that are being considered for other areas at the county.
So You know today is just a workshop so it's really just a conversation opportunity for you to ask questions and For us to you know have this type of dialogue When we come back to your Commission next week, that's where we'll be asking for you to make a recommendation and so These are the types of things that can go into your recommendation. Well, we don't have the And I apologize in advance but what we don't have the luxury of with this effort is time We've committed to get to the board before the end of the calendar year and to stay on that schedule We need to get through this process Whether that's a recommendation from your commission, that this whole effort is not desirable and you want to keep the status quo. We'll forward whatever recommendation your commission wants to present but what we don't have the ability kind of spend hearing upon hearing, trying to work through these issues.
Hopefully what we can do is end this workshop today with at least a good understanding of what the concepts are and proposals are in front of you so that When we're back to you with you next week that we can have a fruitful discussion and end with some clear recommendations from your Commission
if I can I Was withholding comment until we were through because I know we still have a lot of presentation to go But I just want to set the table
Actually we don't.
I
think we were, maybe Martha?
Well let me just set the table because obviously I'm new to this group and I just want to set the table in terms of you know who I am and what I represent here because I'm not an architect or a planner But I am the beneficiary of, I've lived through zero growth. We lived owning a lot that I couldn't build on for decades and I live in that home now that's 2350 square feet so I know you know a beautiful sub 2500 square foot home can exist in Montecito.
I've also lived for 40 years outside of the community and discovered what happens in similar neighborhoods which have extreme land values that incentivize development in a really And I think that's my key concern because similarly as a homeowner, I would love the opportunity to freely add a window and add up small accessory dwelling. I also know that I've seen ADUs across my community and there are they're not rental units right? They're not additional housing their expansions of the existing homes. I'm living in a community that is currently overwhelmed with building and construction It is out of control in my neighborhood to the extent of disruption and it's continuous.
And the idea that we're actually creating greater liberality and greater opportunity for development is concerning to me, but also beneficial to me. So that's what I'm trying to balance myself. And I wanna say how much I really appreciate the amount of thought and work that has gone into this presentation Because it's an overwhelming amount of work that you've had to take on. And I guess my underlying concern is making sure that we do, because this isn't about not in my backyard. This is about a community whose extreme escalation and land value has created incentives for development and overdevelopment. And I've seen that happen and I've seen that completely change High net worth residential communities in other parts of California. So the stumbling blocks to development in Montecito certainly aren't slowing development now, but they are providing some guideposts and I would suggest at this early stage to say how can we return some of that review process, particularly to single family residences and specifically new construction that acknowledges that separation that occurs in Montecito.
2:09 – 2:1412 turns
Thank you for that. So can I suggest, so apparently we do have like three or four maybe four more slides so let's get through the last.
I'd like to see the rest of the presentation first.
Yeah let's get through those last few and then and then we can.
I apologize
I just
railed us. I started us on this railroad spur and I apologize
She's left the building I think or left the computer so we'll carry it from here.
Yes, we only have a few more slides they're mainly focused on coastal outside of Montecito since that is part of your review package but Alex and I have got this one so Moving on again, coastal outside of Montecito this is the C1 zone. There's no C1 within the Montecito area. The two areas primarily in the coastal zone are Santa Claus Lane and Summerland. The changes are similar to the CN Zone which you do have a single family residential though it can also be allowed in C1 so that's a slight difference The existing threshold is a CDP and appealable CDP for anything less than 5,000 square feet. And then a CDP and development plan for 5, 000 square feet or more.
The proposed threshold would be a non-appealable CDP for less than 5, 000 square feet. An appealable CDP for 5, 000 to 10, 000 square feet and then a CDP and development plan for 10, 000 square feet or more And that is an aggregate numbers cumulative with if there's existing development on the site. For the C2 zone, there is one singular property in coastal Montecito that is a C2 zone. I believe it's used as a parking lot right now and then one other location in the coastal zone in Isla Vista.
Similar proposals, similar existing threshold of CDP for less than $5,000 and then greater than that is a CDP and a development plan And then the proposed threshold is a non-appealable CDP for less than 5,000. An appealable CDP for five to 15 in this case thousand square feet and then a CDP and a development plan for 15,000 or more square feet of development again aggregate with anything existing.
The CH is the highway commercial zone one location between Highway 101 and Via Real at Padaro Lane kind of a strange zone. The existing threshold is all development gets a development plan, the proposed threshold really follows the other ones we've just talked about of less than 5,000 is non-appealable CDP and then there's a threshold for appealable CDP and then above that would be a development plan and CDP Similarly, the PI zone, the Public Institutional Zone and then the MRP is the Industrial Research Park Zone. Very limited locations of these in the coastal zone and really follows that Similar level for the PI zone of less than 5,000, five to 15, greater than 15. And then for the MRP zone, the existing threshold is similarly a development plan for any development.
The proposed threshold would be less than 20,000 square feet would get an appealable CDP and then greater than that would get a development plan and CDP so In that case, since that is an industrial zone not a commercial zone there is no unappealable CDP threshold proposed.
And I should know this but just to double clarify the MRP zone is not within our jurisdiction? Correct, so it's not within
the Montecito area. The difference and this may help clarify if there is any confusion about why we're talking about coastal outside of Montecito is that your commission does make a recommendation to the County Planning Commission on the Coastal Zoning Ordinance And that covers the entire area. You can't exactly section out just making a recommendation on the Montecito area of the coastal zone, so we're showing you the entirety of the Coastal Zoning Ordinance changes but really glossing over the ones that aren't within Montecito.
My question is specifically for this MRP zone, I think it comes right up to the next-door neighbors to us in ways that Isla Vista, the PI Zone isn't. So I just... Much closer yes.
On the MRP Zone so the change of use applies to this too correct?
2:14 – 2:199 turns
The change, the exempt change of use we talked about. Yes that would still apply as a non-residential change of use. The difference in that case is many industrial uses require a conditional use permit and anything even if it's a change of use from something conditionally approved to something else conditionally approved that would be the change abuse have not applied at that So if you have a conditional use permit and you go to another conditionally approved use, you would have to get the required permit. It's really the change of uses for when it's permitted listed which is generally either a land use permit or a coastal development permit swapping between uses that only require those.
You can change use exempt. A little bit about development plan review authority. So Montecito currently, your commission the Montecito Planning Commission is the review authority for all development plans except for those limited ones we talked about of the less than 2,000 square feet threshold The proposed is the director would be the review authority for development of 15,000 square feet or less in the CN zone. No change in the CV zone so the smaller potentially smaller CN zone development plans We'll go to the director that is in line with kind of the rest of the coastal zone and the rest of the county as well. But anything greater than that would still come to your commission, and as Alex mentioned earlier, the CN Zone is developed out so it's unlikely you'd see anything new that could possibly be under this threshold that would be coming just to the director.
And then the coastal zone A little bit more changes to that. The director would be the review authority for less than 20,000 square feet. The zoning administrator which in Coastal Montecito is also your board and the rest of the coastal zone is a separate entity would be $20,000 to $25,000. And then the planning commission would be $25 or more square foot development.
Excuse my ignorance about this again. So in that CN Zone 15,000 square feet is going to change the plan and there's an approval process. In other words, a parking lot in that area if that's being redeveloped for housing or some other need, that's not exempt. That's not going to the director for approval?
It would depend on the square footage of that. So the 15,000 square feet to the director is depending on what it is if it's under that. If it's 10,000 square feet just as an example that could go to the director as a decision maker for those projects.
And then any decision by the director in that instance would be appealable up to your commission and then up to the board? Yeah, all development plans would be appealable regardless of the decision maker. So the idea here is just to downshift the review authority but not the level of discretion so in those few instances like that one C2 property on Coast Village Road that's within the county jurisdiction if that were to be developed it's a pretty small property Good chance that any development on that were to be less than the, would be within the director level threshold for approval.
But the threshold is based on the square footage requirement not the use requirement? Correct. So if something we're changing usage from one use to another...
So the change of use is really if you have an existing commercial enterprise And you're proposing to change that, say from like a restaurant to a gym. Then that would be exempt and you're not making any additions. You're not making it larger or just changing the use from one permitted use to another. That would be exempt from a planning approval.
But if I want to add 15,000 square feet to an existing commercial property?
It's not really a change. That wouldn't really be a change of use. Yeah, we consider a change of use when it's really like just you have an existing commercial building and you're just changing the use from one to another. We see these a lot in like strip malls and things like that where the ownership of whatever unit changes regularly and there've long been a lot of complaints about having to get a planning approval to just be able to change from Again, like a cafe to another commercial use and trying to make that easier.
What about so in some of these areas, let's say a parking lot that's part of one of the CN zone areas. If the parking lot wanted to become another commercial building as part of the existing commercial structures what would the review process be for something like that?
2:19 – 2:2815 turns
It would be based on the square footage and the use. I mean most of those would be a development plan, but I would say that you know it's pretty difficult to develop a parking lot that is being relied upon by another commercial use because there are parking requirements so it would be they'd have to you know meet with fit within a pretty limited It's not unheard of, there are certain state provisions particularly with regard to housing near public transit or mixed use near public transit where you don't have a parking requirement that you can get around that, but otherwise for most commercial uses there is on-site parking required.
To walk through a wildly hypothetical situation if the parking lot is jurisdictionally different from the commercial business it's serving I bet if you went back five slides so you could come up with the example I mean the C2 yeah It's our only
C2
zone.
Let's not get into too much specifics here because we're not in a good
place for that. What I'm trying to get at is, is that in her situation of changing the commercial use of a parking structure where the reliant use on that is not permitted zoned or reviewed by the county help us contextualize that hypothetical I'm coming up with
That would be complicated and require joint review by both bodies. There's probably a reason that is still a parking lot. Theoretically I don't foresee that changing.
So our proposed amendments that we're discussing here do not include changes to parking requirements because parking requirements for commercial areas are governed by a separate set of regulations? Correct, yeah we're not
changing any parking requirements.
And with that, we've come to the end of the slideshow. We do have a series you may have looked at in your own versions of appendices, generally some maps and imagery to help contextualize some of this and give some additional information as needed for this discussion. But we're not planning to scroll through all of those right now. We're happy to flip to any of them to help answer questions.
But that concludes staff's presentation. We're happy to continue this discussion and answer any questions
Chair and commissioners, before we dive into more hypothetical solutions can we ask for public comment? I know the room is packed and everybody's waiting to speak but there's a couple people online so if we could ask for public comment then we could move back to the Commission for more questions.
Yes let us invite public comment
All right, I don't see anyone in the room but if you're online and you would like to comment raise your virtual hand and I'll call on you. No hands raised.
A wildly interested public. You know I mean I want to chew on some of this before our next meeting, but thank you. This is a very comprehensive look into what the proposals might be and I know this is not an easy job. You've informed us well. I will just say as kind of a sidebar comment we live in one of the only countries and especially in a state that allows Any two-story development, not to have an architect. It doesn't need to have an architect.
An owner can be an owner builder as of right. An engineer could submit plans. Developers who actually think they know something about design can actually propose a project. So it's usually unlikely because the process is so complicated but it does happen. And that's why strip malls happened. You know, all I can say is you know, I don't want Montecito to ever look like a strip mall. I don't want, you know, the—I don't want a 2,500 square foot ugly building because it's just not—it's not necessary and I think that, you know, as we give up control of the design review process and I realize you've narrowed this You narrowed this in a very good way, and I think land value definitely helps mitigate some of my concerns over somebody developing something that's pretty awful.
I just find it as a theorem of a way of proceeding with the built environment inappropriate. We have so many concerns about design quality, energy consumption, material usage. These are things that get complicated, that get brushed by the wayside when there is not appropriate design personnel involved in a project. And the more we give up, the less we get. Not the more we get, not making it easier.
The less we get cumulatively so I don't really have more to add to that other than thank you for putting up with me and my concerns.
Thank You Mr. Chair and just a reminder and I think you all probably know this and particularly you Mr. Chair Whether regardless of what happens on the planning side, projects would still go through the building permit process. Whether it's exempt from planning requires design review doesn't require design reviews so I just say that because you mentioned like energy use things like that so obviously title 24 and all the energy requirements that gets addressed through the building permit process and nothing we're proposing would change that. I know that's probably like a small minor I just wanted to clarify that.
We came here knowing that this would be a robust discussion, particularly regarding issues related to design review and giving up that control and sort of the uncertainty that comes with And I guess what I would, you know we can happy to keep answering questions and talk through this but as we as you leave today and prepare to come back for next week what I would encourage you to do is think about if we're talking about design review.
Is there a box however big or small that you'd be comfortable with letting go of or sort of removing from the design review requirements. And maybe it's not 20 to 100 square feet, but maybe there is some level of development that you'd be comfortable with allowing to go through without that level of review. Maybe it's just some additions to existing development or something that is in some way will again help those simple easy projects be able to get through the process without the level of rigorous review that most every other project is subject to. I'd like for you to just think about that as you get prepared for next week and kind of figure out where your comfort level is in that regard. And again, we'll pass along any recommendation that you have to the board and we'll see what they do with that right?
2:28 – 2:345 turns
Yes, I have a couple of questions and comments. I want to first emphasize the value to this commission of the staff reports and the ability to get your staff reports in advance and also all the other backup material. This is it's a big topic so It was great to have the opportunity to pre-review but what it also showed me is there's a lot of nuances that I learned about today that do take some time to percolate so I also appreciate having a week before we vote.
Thank you for organizing it in that way. When we get the Board of Supervisors link to that May 12th hearing, it would be really helpful if it's possible to queue up approximately where the agenda item is so we don't have to thumb through eight or ten hours worth of Hearing, thank you. And my biggest concern is how to get to a vote next week and I think being mindful of the Brown Act is it appropriate if we have a really specific question to reach out to someone on staff individually?
Like how should we proceed so that we can hopefully get to a place where we can agree on something next week
Certainly a good question Commissioner Kerns for the chair. Any of you are welcome to reach out to myself or to Ben individually and talk through with any questions where we'd get into trouble with Brown Act is if I then sort of transmitted what you said to me to other commissioners but for one-on-one conversations that's completely fine there is also I mean limited opportunity for you to talk to one other commissioner on your board or on your commission, just as long as you keep it to that.
And yeah I think that answers the question.
Okay thank you and then I felt that Commissioner Rockenbach was onto something with her question regarding could we change an administrative review or change one box? And I think you were kind of going that way if there's something we could live with So I'm hoping that we can. figure out next week in the public part of the meeting what it is we can live with and have some really specific proposals when we come.
And any change, any change is always challenging and this is a particularly challenging one because it's our home and our lifestyle and our community and It's definitely a topic that is near and dear to all of us who sit on this commission so thank you for your listening and your ability to answer all these questions and hypotheticals. And that's all I have.
One follow-up question as we're starting to think through different proposals and recommendations that we might come back with, I know you mentioned the 2,500 square foot threshold which is pretty straight forward in terms of what that means and the current exemption talks about new construction for single story dwellings up to that square footage threshold. That's pretty straightforward, but can you just talk to us a little bit more before we go today about the word remodeled in that proposed exemption? What does remodeled contemplate so that we could think about that as a potential area perhaps
Commissioner Rockenbach to the chair so yeah remodeled could be quite a number of things. It could be on the far end it could be essentially a demo rebuild within that size limit and then probably anything from there too You know, maybe you have a 2,000 square foot home and you're looking to add 500 square feet and you still fit within that overall size limit. Or you're just trying to – you have a Mediterranean style and you're trying to make yours more, you know, a different architectural style but you're not adding any square footage.
So it can kind of be – it could run the gamut so long as it stays within that overall size limit. And then there's the, yeah so and you could do that 10% addition. So yeah I think that's about the gist of what would be covered under that remodel opportunity. Still have to be single-story and I think the reasons for keeping it single story are fairly obvious but if not you know single-story with landscaping or fencing and stuff like that tends to be less visible unless in your face and when you flow and throw on all your setback requirements and things of that nature whether You have well proportioned detailing and consistent architectural styles if you're a single story and small in size maybe is less impactful to your neighbors than once you get into the two-story or larger size homes where those visual qualities become more apparent.
2:34 – 2:4113 turns
Thank you, just want to echo my colleagues thanks to staff for the time and effort that they've put into this and for the opportunity to do the workshop in advance it's been very helpful
Yeah, thank you so much. I completely concur. So again to help me understand where we are what percentage as under our current system? What percentage roughly of permits are appealed in other words how many projects currently go through that appeal process and that could be specific to our community
I don't know the answer to that question. It's not a large percentage, I would say it's probably in the 10% or less range. I've been sitting here for a couple of
years. The number of appeals that we have because an appeal comes before us.
Appeals do come before you. Very few. It is a small percentage. A very small percentage. But beyond the, you know a lot of things. You know appeal is sort of the ultimate arbiter of the neighbor involvement and there can be a lot that happens in the absence of an appeal that can still bog a project down and add cost and time simply because a neighbor is heavily involved in your project and calling the planner multiple times. And every time the planner picks up that phone, they're charging the applicant for that time that they're on the phone. And so even for projects that don't ultimately get appealed That process of having notice and having the appealability and the involvement from the neighboring community on those projects can still add considerable cost in time to what might otherwise be a fairly simple project.
Yeah, I just my concern is that whatever friction exists in the current system it's not enough to seem to. I don't know what it could possibly be reducing. I don't know what developments would have been considered that aren't happening because everything seems to be happening and my concern is that you know right at the opening we talked about comparing our county to other counties and how restrictive our development process is.
And I would argue that thankfully, that's for a reason. I think that people obviously all understand this is a unique community and I know everyone feels that way but I think that's argued over the centuries that it's a very unique place. And wanting to streamline the process makes a great deal of sense. And I think there's probably some common ground, but I want to voice that I am concerned about what's been presented here and I'm looking forward to finding what that common ground is. I think there's a great deal of rationality between combining the uses and the description.
I think my key areas of concern are the residential approval because differing from Bob, I've seen a great deal of development that just sit under that threshold. I guess a follow-up question would be and I am uninformed about this the potential future lot splits that can happen because of the change in the state laws How does that affect this? In other words, if I have a half acre lot and I have permission to split that lot can I now build 2,500 square foot house on that 3,000 square foot lot provided my setbacks and everything meet with approval and it's a single story structure.
Yes thank you for that question Commissioner DeLaurente through the chair so ADUs and SB, what you're referring to as the SB 9 lot splits that are statutorily enacted at the state level which we have very little control over. Those are already ministerial so as most of you are aware ADUs and you mentioned sort the explosion of ADUs. Those are not currently subject to design review or permits, they're ministerial and will continue to be so. So nothing we do with any of these amendments will affect ADUs And nothing we do will affect the SB 9 lot split opportunity.
Not to interrupt you, I totally understand that. What I'm saying is once I've accomplished what I'm building on that lot split
Right, so under current regulations if you do that lot split and you build you could build a dwelling in that newly created lot through a ministerial approval process. There isn't.
1,200 square feet? But the structure if I'm building a currently I can build a structure on that split lot that doesn't have to go through review process? That is correct.
An ADU or primary residence?
Primary residence. That is correct and SB 9 so quick SB 9 tutorial SB 9 allows, has sort of two prongs. One is the ability to do these ministerial lot splits but the other ability is to develop essentially two single-family dwellings on an existing lot through a ministerial approval process so in addition to potentially a couple ADUs on top of that regardless of lot size you have to meet certain setback requirements and height limits but under SB 9 today you could subdivide a lot. It can be as small as 1,200 square feet the resulting lots have to be basically a 60-40 split so if you have a one acre lot you can't just carve off at 1200 square foot high would have to be a 60 40 split But that new lot could be developed with potentially up to two new single-family dwellings and an ADU through a ministerial approval
process without design review. So these changes, nothing would change in that process? We're not going to create more liberality?
2:41 – 2:467 turns
And, you know what you're speaking to is. MBAR doesn't have to review that? No their ministerial there's a handful of objective design standards that those projects have to comply with but they are not subject to any discretionary review approval including design review But, you know what you're speaking to is sort of this big elephant in the room which is all these state mandates that are trying to make projects go through housing projects in particular of all sizes ADUs up to multi-family dwellings go through the process easier, quicker, simpler with less subjectivity.
And all these state laws are removing discretion from local jurisdictions and requiring these projects to go through these more ministerial type approvals. So we find ourselves in this interesting situation now where A 500-unit multifamily housing project is subject to less design review than a 1,500 square foot single family dwelling. Which is unfortunate for obvious reasons and so the scales are really unbalanced right now and so one of the outcomes of this effort would be to somehow rebalance those scales a little bit so that there's all these avenues for property owners to find these ministerial approval process. You mentioned ADUs that people build but are actually just de facto additions to their homes, so they can already find these ways around design review and we're seeing it Being honest and acknowledging that reality is by allowing people to really do what they're intending without having to kind of follow this more loopholed approach.
If they're just looking to add a little square footage to their home or at a detached accessory structure whether they call it an ADU or not Not me getting swallowed into this higher level review when there's so many ways in which they could streamline their process.
Just out of curiosity, I don't know that you would know the answer to this anyway but how many SB 9 lot splits have there been in Montecito for properties that are an acre or less?
I don't know the exact number, but countywide we've done a couple dozen SB9 lot
splits. So we're not talking about a
significant number. A project to do that subdivision they still have access requirements and subdivision requirements. So it's even though it's theoretically possible, it still doesn't work for a lot of properties.
Owner occupancy requirements? Yeah. Quick question back in the deck there was talking about a one-to-one native tree replacement which is obviously My correct that's a big change from what the current requirements are.
Commissioner DiLoreto through the chair so right now there is no codified replacement ratio the practice is that you plant If your lot can accommodate it, you plant more trees than you remove but at a smaller size understanding that the likelihood of all those reaching maturity is not high. So in a more rural setting we do a 10 to 1 replacement ratio with tiny little one gallon saplings knowing that a handful of those will not survive The smaller, as you reduce that replacement ratio, you tend to go bigger in your planting size. And so for more urban lots where they don't have the space for a 10-to-1 or even a 5-to 1, you tend to see those more one-to one replacement ratios with larger initial planting sizes and so that's what we landed on.
2:46 – 2:5314 turns
So, so the one-to-one would be a larger
size or
15
gallon I think is what we proposed. I mean we've seen obviously if property owners who want an immediate sort of more aesthetic tree they'll put in much larger than that but also know those get very expensive
And then not to drag us down this again, just so I'm really clear about this. The CN is the retail space correct? Not the CV is the... What would the San Ysidro East Valley neighborhood be that's- Yeah, upper
village that's a CN.
CN. Neighborhood commercial. So understanding what this 15,000 square foot development potential in that area is An owner of a property in that area wants to add 15,000 square feet of retail space. What would that approval process be in this new proposal?
Commissioner DiLoreto through the chair, so I guess we can take that two ways. If it's a if it was a vacant parcel which let's say
it's not a vacant
parcel because we don't have yeah if you say they have 10,000 square feet existing and they want to go up to 15 they want to add five that would be a development plan and here I can Scroll back to this one, I believe. So that would be a development plan for increasing the size. However, if you maintain less than that $15,000, your $14,999, that would be a development plan that goes to the planning director for the decision maker.
My concern about that is it centralizes that decision. And particularly with the recent change in retail property that happened in the Montecito area at extremely elevated values, I'm concerned about that process being so centralized because that's a significant amount of redevelopment of a commercial property, particularly if you look at what some of the recent sales are. And we know that a lot of property has been held for a long time by current owners and the possibility for money distorting that process, I think is high And I'm concerned about that, and particularly in this neighborhood.
So is it the size threshold that is the concern? So again trying to think forward to recommendations if this is a sentiment shared where we've proposed. Can you go to the decision maker? We are proposing direct or 15,000 square feet or less. drop that down to say 10,000 square feet so any development plan would still be subject to the Montecito Planning
Commission. Or 5,000 square feet. So for example I can imagine a restaurant space that wants to make an addition to its kitchen or some structural change there. That makes sense if I've just paid a premium for a retail property in this area and I can add 15,000 square feet in a streamlined process That's that incentivizes greater development, which is what my concern is.
You know how to create Yes, lowering that level would give me some peace of mind that it isn't used to maximize my investment in that neighborhood or maximize the potential for increased development in that area
Chair, is it all right if I steal the mic? Thank you all. I appreciate what you've done. I feel like what you put together has some real common sense and logic to it and I want to be the first to acknowledge that some of the objections that I've highlighted earlier are not necessarily based in common sense and logic but potentially in community mores but I genuinely appreciate the work that you have done. As a process question, because we are hoping to, the goal is to land the plane next week, do we need to be viewing this as an all or nothing thing?
And in scope of what is kind of realistic and possible, should we be assuming we do come in with changes. Should we be trying to do like Is three or four changes realistic and 10 to 15 changes not? You articulated, I thought very in a good way that there is a time factor between now and the end of the year. And if we came back with 85 different changes that would be process wise infeasible.
I'm assuming but so if you could give us a little process level guidance to help inform kind of our deliberation
2:53 – 3:0211 turns
If you recall, just using a prior example we were sitting in this hearing room with your commission roughly this time last year on the phase 2 streamlining amendments. In scope, actually a much bigger set of amendments because it was touching a lot of sections of the ordinance. Maybe it felt less substantive than what we're talking about today but it was a lot to absorb and there's a big comprehensive set of amendments.
Your commission was largely accepting of the bulk of those amendments I believe you had four recommendations? which we then passed along to the County Commission and then passed along to the Board of Supervisors. The Board of Supervisors ended up sort of I think accepting a couple of your recommendations and rejecting a couple of them. So, I could certainly envision or you know a similar situation here where you have these set of amendments and then you have a set of recommendations in it so it's not an all-or-nothing thing it can be like You know, we're generally accepting of this proposal. But we have this recommendation on design review and to say make all projects subject to design review, you know whatever that might be insert recommendations so there is no magic number as to what's too much if you have five great if you have ten great well I mean maybe less great, but what we don't want to do is get into a protracted or extended conversation about come back.
What we don't want you to do is say come back to us at our next hearing in November with some changes to reflect our recommendation or desire. What we intend is that we will take forward this package sort of unadulterated to the board with your recommendations. And your recommendations are accept in whole, accept in part, reject in whole, reject in part.
At the risk of perhaps stepping on the prerogatives of the chair, I would find it very valuable to hear from each of the commissioners about their areas of concern and focus. Specifically so that between now and next week, I as a commissioner have a chance to kind of review what is written with greater detail on the things that we will be discussing further And since ultimately, we're going to try and get to coalesce to at least three up votes on the thing that what I'm curious about is I'm not trying to put anyone on the spot to kind of come to final judgments but more kind of their initial impressions of the things areas of concern so that there is a world in which all of us And so I would see a real value in hearing people's initial impressions and initial points of concern or focus as the basis for homework between now and the next meeting with the understanding that, at least from my perspective, I'm not trying to hold anyone to their list or prevent them from adding new things to the list next week.
But hopefully that gets us to an easier process discussion next week. That's probably a chair request, but I'm posing it.
I think it's fine for us to preliminarily voice what our concerns are. And I'll go first. I mean, I'm concerned about giving up design review where smaller lots are—I want to make sure we're defining what a lot is whether it's a non-conforming lot based on this 1980— It would be any lot. What that means. If a lot's been split, is it already a legal lot? Are we going to allow non-design review of a residential structure to happen on a half acre lot?
I'm just gonna say my language about amending this a bit may be about specifically targeting lot size. Anything less than a certain lot size has to go through review. Because it becomes an impactful, much more impactful on its surrounding neighbors than it does if I've got a four acre lot. It's pretty easy for me to develop. If I've got a half acre lot, I've got a whole different set of concerns that is much more impactful on an adjacent property.
Mr. Chair and I think that's totally fair but what I would just say lot legality is I would say unrelated to design review so just focus on the designer view and it can be designed review. Yeah, a lot size set
of lot legality and whether it was 1980 or
you're right
we were in a two acre zone it's now a one acre parcel I would I would focus in on Where I think it's impactful from a lot size vantage point, that anything that's being developed at 2,500 square foot on a lot that's half acre or whatever by dream up over the next week is something that has to go through design review. That's where my current crux lies. Fellow
commissioners? So currently, and I think this is a good exercise Marshall so thank you for proposing it. You know on the residential side I'm also struggling with the absence of a design review process So I want to think about, you know what a potential administrative design review process might look like and whether that would be some middle ground we could come to. And then included in that the discussions that we've had giving more thought to like what that administrative process would look like. The inclusion of like a design professional perhaps and what does that mean? Is it an architect or is it, you know, what does design professional define to include And then also thinking about the notice requirements.
As I understand the proposal, it sort of takes away the notice requirements as well as the appeal and so I want to think through what if we kept the notice requirements versus you know on the appeal side and are there compromises that we could come to there? And then I also want to give consideration to your points about lot size as a potential area, you know that we might make proposals around.
And also the concept I raised about new construction means new construction but what does remodel mean and are there Thank you. and thinking through the square footage thresholds that have been proposed for changes to the permit type, but also the change to having the planning director only review and what those square footage thresholds are there. So I think on the residential side in the commercial side those are the primary things that I made notes on and that I want to go back to and have further thought around before next week
Thank
you. I would mirror both of those. I think I would add the CV to that, even though 5,000 square feet doesn't seem to be a dramatic amount to a large hotel property. Given the history with the community, I think that's a challenge and something that we should examine a little more closely too. But it's mostly the CNCV development and that new construction threshold and 2,500 square feet actually can be a very nice property or can be a real detriment.
We both live in 2,500 square feet.
3:02 – 3:072 turns
I have similar concerns. I don't know whether they rise to the level of a full objection, but certainly the ministerial review on certain square footage thresholds I'm going to review over the next week And the commercial, especially up in the upper village is something that I will be looking at and may have a proposal to lower that 15,000 square footage recommendation.
That's really the crux of my questions and the design review I have to think about. I'm not prepared to call out specific elements but I do think it's important
I think my biggest concerns are specifically around design review and residential housing. And new construction, without having the right language for this, substantial remodel or kind of remodel that is functionally new construction I was generally OK with the accessory structures and the fencing, the hedging, the other pieces there of where we actually don't have that much brand new housing construction in Montecito.
A good percentage of what we deal with is, and having been on this body a little bit longer than some, there has never been any magnitude to the nature of the fights that we have had. We've had disagreements about very large homes and very monumental structures. And we have had fights about adding a window to a garage as narrow and small as you could possibly imagine that we're hearing on appeals. So I value the tearing element of it, but I have a real concern around New residential construction and or significant scope remodel, and maintaining a community-driven design review there. If I had to kind of pick my dart to land on it would be around there while acknowledging all of the critiques of our current process. It's inefficient. It is adversarial.
It is at times litigious. It not pleasant. These are all fair critiques of it. So there, I didn't come into this with the same concerns around commercial but I have heard you all what you've had to say on it and you're bringing me along with your logic so I associate myself to your remarks about this topic. The only other thing I would add into this is that And where I see our role here is we are representing the Montecito community. But in a rather stilted way, we are in dialogue with the County Board of Supervisors and that I appreciate what their county-wide goals are and why Montecito is this kind of annoying pebble in the shoe sometimes for 10,000 people in a county of half a million people. Why are we so difficult?
You know, we hear our Board of Appeals but half the time when we don't answer the way this sad side losing side on the appeal here it goes up to the board. And I think they're a little sick of hearing Montecito problems as and so I am this is perhaps a letter or communication outside of the context of the code review but I think that That the idea that if Montecito is going to be difficult on a per capita basis for the county, that because we are a separate zoning code and separate zoning area do we have a different fee schedule.
In essence that we as a community need to pay our own way through being more difficult and complicated. I'm not sure I understand the full impacts of that statement, but my focus on adding that as a dialogue to these code revisions is I think that we want to convey to the County Board of Supervisors that while we are asking to stay special and different, that those are costs that we as a community are willing to pay. That there is a cost and a price to doing it this way. And so I realize that's not a section
3:07 – 3:1216 turns
We're getting off topic on that but I'm just gonna comment on that. So we recently just did a fee schedule that was adopted by the board so I hear what you're saying and if you wanted to make an antidote about that But as of right now, we've already adopted a fees countywide to our processes. So we're not looking at redoing our fees. There's a whole study and equations and mathematical process to get to fees.
So that's a deeper conversation that's way out of scope from what we're presenting to the commission.
I do, and I hear that and I am very cognizant of what does it mean to agendize something or not but that I'm, what would be the right way to kind of address that topic in The supervisor's guidance was very much around streamlining, making more efficient and I don't mean to jump to the end of this. If it is the voice of this commission to push back and say we want to, we don't want to be quite that efficient.
We don't want to be quite that streamlined
Chair and Commissioners, I'm going to try to narrow this. So we're on a timeline and I'm concerned that going down this side quest on fees is out of scope but it's not what agendized. I think it's a good topic, a good conversation and I'd recommend that would be something maybe the chair and vice-chair may bring up with the director to talk about that process.
You could make a comment in part of your recommendations would be say we recommend the department look at fees assessed in Montecito and see if there's some adjustments that could be made there. That's a separate process and a separate code amendment that goes directly to the board, it doesn't come through the planning commissions as far as the fees go. So you could make a side comment that says hey we recommend that the board asked the department to evaluate fees assessed in Montecito based on these code amendments but I would strongly encourage you just to focus on what's before you as far as these code amendments so we can get through it next week Otherwise we're gonna get distracted and go off on different tangents.
I'm not suggesting we propose a resolution to, a recommendation about those fee structure in any kind of detail but that I'm wanting to kind of meet the Board of Supervisors a little bit where they are
in
their
own goals. Marshall, I may want to just try to allay some of your fears. In terms of the development stuff that goes on here, I don't think it's the money. I don�t think it has to do with the fees that people pay to get their project approved. It's about time. It's much more focused about how long the process takes than it is about how much the process costs. We all know what we're going to pay to get a big building developed. It's building the 15,000 square foot house and knowing I got a two-year process in order to get an approval. That is a serious problem.
members of the community and what is difficult about doing development. My concern is that when they go through the budget process stuff, that planning and development faces like what does it mean to add another planner that is Montecito specific because we're just being difficult to deal with? And that is where if it's coming out of the...
We're going to take a break. We need to take a five minute
break.
I'm
happy to be done.
Rather than take a break, I would suggest that we just try to... I think we're at a point of being able to wrap it up and just adjourn.
And yeah,
we can certainly carry forward a comment about fees but leave it at the high level Yeah so I think it was very helpful for you all to talk about some of your areas of concern. The last thing I would add is if there's any, I have a few notes about things that you'd like maybe some information on but if there's anything else that you would ask that we come back to at the next hearing with additional information or anything to highlight for next week let us know now if that's possible and Or reach out, yeah you can always reach out to us
individually. So chair and commissioners staff did present some recommended actions so if we could just wrap the meeting up with a motion and a second and vote for the recommended actions that's shown on the screen
3:12 – 3:135 turns
I move to approve the three recommended action items on the screen as proposed by staff.
Do I have a second?
I second
All in favor? Aye Thank you all
Chair and Commissioners, thank you. I really appreciate this time and the staff did an excellent job so we'll see you next week.