BodyPlanning Commission
MeetingRegular Meeting
Date📅 August 26, 2026

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0:19 – 0:256 turns

Pledge of Allegianceceremonial · click to expand · ≈13s recited, not transcribed
UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed18:05

OK, it's 9.05 AM. We'd like to go ahead and start the meeting. First item of order is the Pledge of Allegiance. So may I ask you all to please stand?

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Thank you all. Mr. Villalobos, do you mind reading to us the TV coverage announcement?

Okay, the agenda status report. Good morning chair and members of the commission.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 4Proposed19:33

Looking at the status of

Roll call, called by Clerk of the Board
Show transcript
Yes, thank you Mr. Chair and good morning to the Commission. Planning Commission hearings are televised live on the County of Santa Barbara Television CSB TV channel 20 at 9 a.m. in the South Coast Lompoc, Staininess Valley, Samaria and Orchid areas. A rebroadcast of planning commission hearings are on Fridays at 5 p.m on CSB TV channel 20 today's hearing will also be streamed live on the county's website as well as the county's YouTube channel and will be available for download in a day or two should I move on to roll call? Yes please thank you great Commissioner Americana here Thank you. Commissioner Ford? Here. Commissioner Martinez? Here. And Chair Guy? Here. And then Commissioner Park will be joining us shortly. Yes.
UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 4Proposed19:35

our agenda today, we have one item on consent which is a government code consistency. And then we have four items on our standard agenda. My understanding is applicants and staff are ready to present on all those items.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed19:52

OK Mr. Wilson I'm going to ask that we make a change And I know there's quite a few people here in the room. Unfortunately, I'm going to ask that we move the second item which is the T-Mobile telecommunications facility to the end. Unfortunately Commissioner Park is not here at the moment but he's in process. He's been delayed and it's important that he's here for this item.

If we could do so then I would like you to move up. I believe it's the wall over LLC? Mr.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 4Proposed20:33

Chair and Commissioners, if I may provide a recommendation in concert we're talking to staff the recommendation is we move item number one off the Senate agenda which is T-Mobile to the last item on the agenda And then the order would be as follows. The first item on the standard agenda would be the Malmuth tentative parcel map, followed by the Wallover LLC lot line adjustment and then the third item would be the Landon Equestrian Arena and small scales event and then we'll end the day with the T-Mobile communication facility.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed21:12

That sounds fantastic thank you. So moving on to the projection report

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 4Proposed21:22

Thank you Mr. Chair and Commissioners, looking at upcoming hearings we canceled the September 2nd hearing and then the next hearing after that would be on September 9th. We have one item on consent and then we have one item on the standard agenda which is a track map and that is located in the St. Nez area. And just for the Commission, September 9th will be in Santa Maria and then moving further down on our agendas is looking at after September 9th we will meet again on September 30th And that is when we will have the Ministerial Streamlining Amendment Workshop. And just so the Commissioner, I mean you do have the agenda but looking at that, the start time for the September 30th date is going to be at 1 p.m., and that will be here in Santa Barbara.

Because then in the morning the Montecito Planning Commission will be having the same workshop and theirs is gonna start at 9. So September 30 would be here in Santa Barbara at one o'clock. We did add one other item from Long Range Planning, which is the Eastern Goleta Valley Community Plan Circulation Elements. So after the workshop we'll have another item from Long Range Planning and then following that we canceled the October 7th hearing to allow for an alignment of hearings between the Montecito Planning Commission and the County Planning Commission so we will Not meet again until October 21st.

And then October 21st is when we'll have the first hearing on the ministerial streamlining amendments adoption, and then I will also have one other item on that date which is a lot split or a lot line adjustment. That's another from long-range planning which is a ministerial processing of lots splits. And then on October 28th we have Three items, we have a second hearing for the Minnesota Streamlining Amendments in case we need it. And then we also have a couple of items from Long-Range Planning.

No, I'm sorry, Development Review Division which is a hotel expansion in Los Olivos and then another housing development in Isla Vista. Then on November 4th, we are looking at having a hearing where we're bringing the actual completed ordinance amendments, general planning amendments on the Recreation Master Plan to the County Planning Commission. Then following November 4th, because of holidays we do have a TBD on there but I don't think we're going to be able to make that because I think that's actually a holiday.

It's Veterans Day. So we can talk at another hearing if we want to reschedule it. But I think following that, we have Thanksgiving and so I don't know if we want to have a hearing right before Thanksgiving due to staff availability and commissioners availability. So I'll work with Mr. Villalobos and staff to see if we haven't another hearing for November but when we looked at it we didn't hadn't identified another date That would put us no more hearings in November, and then that would bring us back in December for another hearing on the recreation master plan amendments. And then we also have another item from long-range planning which is the moderate income density bonus special needs and housing ordinance amendments.

So there are a number of other items I think that are being looked at and is being placed on the projection report as well. And so at our next hearing, you'll probably see more items on there as well. So at the end of the year, there's a number of items that are going to be showing up on the projection report. So that's the current status of right now. Mr. Chair? CHRIS RODGERS.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed25:35

Thank you, Mr. Olson, for the update on the projection report. We appreciate it. The public comment

0:25 – 0:355 turns

UnidentifiedClerk of the BoardProposed · by role25:46

Yes, thank you Mr. Chair. So for those of you here today this is a time that we allow for public comment on items not on today's agenda I have not received any speaker slips but if anyone like to speak just rise or if you're online raise your virtual hand and I'll call on you and so of course this is again for not related to items on today's agenda see no one

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed26:13

right do we have one person out here Do you have an item that's not on the agenda? OK, thank you. Then I believe that means no speakers at this time. OK, thank you Mr. Villalobos. Planning commissioners informal reports. Individual commissioners may present briefly reports on planning issues such as seminars meetings and literature that would be of interest to the public and the Commission as a whole.

Commissioner Mary Connor? No. Thank you. Any comments? Okay. Boy, we're going through this fast. Next would be the minutes from the August 12th meeting.

UnidentifiedClerk of the BoardProposed · by role27:09

So at this point, you would just ask if anyone has any amendments to the minutes. And if no, then a motion.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed27:15

So I have read the minutes from the August 12th meeting. Does anybody have any objections to the minutes as presented? No objections. OK. Anybody want to make a motion to accept the minutes? So moved. Thank you. Commissioner O'Connor? Seconded. Thank you, Commissioner Ford. All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? None. Pass is 4-0. Next is Director's Report and Board of Supervisors Hearing Summary.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 5Proposed27:52

Good morning Mr. Chair and members of the Commission. I have a few announcements that I want to repeat. I had made them at our last meeting when you were in Santa Maria, but Farm Day is the 19th of September and if you have never been to it, I really recommend attendance It's really very, very informative just about what's happening in the Santa Maria Valley.

Issues that the agricultural families and companies deal with. Struggles that they may have. And then there's some guest speakers. You go on a tour and it's really amazing how much you learn about things that you had no idea like One of the farming families there developed an entire piece of equipment. It's like a it's a truck basically that comes into the field they put their romaine lettuce on it, it goes through, it packages, it comes out and it's packaged ready stamped with a date and ready to go to a store.

It''s amazing you know in that how quickly berries get into the market that kind of thing so it's just really really an informative day and I've enjoyed it each time I've gone So, they motivated me to do a garden bed and they gave me some kale to start. It's just really cool so I recommend it if you can make it. Commissioner Park talked about this, but there is an Ag Tourism Summit that's going to be held in Paso Robles and that is on the 23rd through the 25th of September.

We are looking at having somebody from the county attend to talk about the Ag Enterprise Ordinance and sort of the lessons that we've learned as we've implemented that program and realizing some of the tweaks we have needed to make. We did come back with one already So, they've asked us to attend and we're going to work to try and make that happen. And then just recent board actions the HAG 4's rezone in San Ynez Valley went from C2 to C3. That was approved by the board on the 18th their first hearing back from the break And then future board actions, I wanted to update the commission on something that the second and third district are bringing on the 1st of September.

And it is tied to retail firearms. And I don't know if you were tracking some of the issues that came out of a retailer going into a space next to a child care facility in the city of Goleta, but there was a lot of community concern about it. So our two board members are bringing an item forward to direct the department to look at creating an ordinance that establishes buffers to sensitive receptors for retail firearm stores.

So that item and then they're also bringing forward a request for a moratorium, a temporary moratorium. So that the county has sufficient time to bring that ordinance back before additional retailers start moving around and shifting spaces. We will also have the board hear the second hearing on the utility scale solar I think I mentioned at the last Planning Commission hearing some of the notable things that the board did include creating a zoning clearance for standalone battery energy storage systems up to 0.25 acres and then also creating a zoning clearance for Agricultural operations that are using solar on site to allow them to have up to 15 acres of solar Provided that all of that power That's generated by that solar is used for that agricultural operation on that particular site and that was a request that had come from the shipper growers Association, and we managed to Review our environmental documents to determine that.

We thought we had it sufficiently covered in the EIR So we're going to move forward with that a recommendation for the board Then on the first, we also have an update and reassessment of our coastal resource mitigation fund fees. During the times that oil and gas operators in the coastal zone are non-operative their fees go down, but once they become operative then the fees can be reassessed. And so we are bringing back a reassessment for the Sable operations at Lewis Flores Canyon and then bringing oil through the pipeline.

So that will increase the available funds that we will have in that in the crimp fund That is then made available to non-profits and governmental agencies that are doing work in the coastal zone, either for coastal restoration or recreation. We see lots of proposals that come in and later this fall we are going to be opening that process back up. And so well, we also have money set aside for acquisitions, coastal acquisitions. So we've been going on a cycle every two years because the fund has been shrinking over the years as oil and gas operations have ceased.

But we seem to have more money now, and so there will be a good opportunity for nonprofits to come forward and ask for funds for their specific projects. We've seen some really great things like Nature Track which is where this nonprofit comes in and they have wheelchairs that are basically like four-wheel drive for handicapped people to be able to get to the beach and explore tide pools and things like that.

We've given money to the aquarium that they have at Cabrillo High School, and then kelp reforestation so there's a lot of really interesting projects that get funded through that. On the 15th of September we have the oil and gas item that's coming back it's phase one changes to the oil and gas provisions in the county. Phase one is prevention of the drilling of any new wells, and then once the board takes action on that phase two which has already been initiated that is the study of amortizing oil and gas as being phased out over a period of time so that they can operators still achieve their investment backed expectations There are other jurisdictions that have moved forward with it. I think County of LA, LA City and then Culver City all have programs.

The airport land use plan consistency amendments and this is just the step the county takes to bring our codes into conformance with SB CAGS new Airport Land Use Plan which is a few years old so we're a little bit behind but that's going to be heard on the 22nd. And I believe that's already been heard by the PC. We have two projects going in November on the 10th to the board.

Constellation project which is in Vandenberg Village and that is a combination of a hotel and residential, and then the Malkin GPA rezone lot line adjustment will be at the board on the 10 of November. And I am happy to answer any questions.

0:35 – 0:4924 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed35:56

Thank you, Ms. Plowman. OK, next agenda item.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed36:04

I'm

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed36:14

sorry? Oh, thank you. Next item is the consent agenda items and procedure. Mr. Villalobos?

UnidentifiedClerk of the BoardProposed · by role36:28

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The following is a hearing on the request of Kevin Thompson, Laguna County Sanitation District, to consider case number 26-GOV5 for determination that the solids handling phase 3 project conforms with the comprehensive plan of the county of Santa Barbara pursuant to California Government Code section 65402 and I believe both Mr. Orta and Mr. Thompson are online if there are any questions.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed36:54

OK. Before we go to that, is there any ex parte communication or site visits that anybody would like to report on this item? I only say that because I did do a site visit so that I would have a better understanding of the facility and I did meet with Kevin Thompson.

UnidentifiedClerk of the BoardProposed · by role37:21

So Mr. Chair, at this point I believe what you would ask the commissioners if there are any questions or any requests to pull the item off of consent then we need to ask for public comment. If the answer to both is no then we would be looking for a motion.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed37:37

OK thank you very much Mr. Villalobos. So I'm going to ask the commissioners does anybody have any comment or any other information? Commissioner Mayor Connor?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 2Proposed37:49

No.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed37:54

So there's no questions or comments from the commissioners. So I'd like to open it up for public comment. Is there any public comment on the solids handling phase three project?

UnidentifiedClerk of the BoardProposed · by role38:08

For those of us joining us online, raise your virtual hand if you'd like to speak on this item. No hands raised.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed38:15

No hands raised. OK at this point.

CommentPARK YouProposed38:18

I'll make a motion.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed38:21

OK, I'm looking for somebody to make a motion. Commissioner Ford?

CommentPARK YouProposed38:27

Thank you so much. I'd like to make a motion to accept the solids handling phase three government code conformity determination.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 2Proposed38:39

Second. Second.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed38:42

Any discussion? All in favor? Aye. None opposed. Motion carries. Thank you. At this point, we move to the standard agenda items. Mr. Villalobos?

UnidentifiedClerk of the BoardProposed · by role38:59

Yes, I'm just looking at my cheat sheet for which one comes first. OK, thank you. The following is a hearing on the request of Brett Jones, agent for the owner David Malmuth, to consider case number 24 TPM2 and to adopt the mitigated negative declaration case number 25 NGD4 and adopt the mitigation monitoring program contained in the conditions of approval.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed39:23

So I would like to ask if there's any ex parte communication or site visits to share

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 2Proposed39:28

prior to? Yes.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed39:30

OK, Commissioner Mary Connor?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 2Proposed39:32

Thank you. I visited the site of this project with the agent. Brett Jones had an informative tour and he explained the project to me in the tentative parcel map that was last week. Great.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed39:49

Thank you. Anybody else? Okay, I would like to also share that I visited the site on Monday with Commissioner Park. We also met with Mr. Jones who gave us a comprehensive understanding of the project. So now I would like to ask staff to please report?

CommentTatianaProposedself-stated40:17

Good morning, Chair Guy and Commissioners. My name is Tatiana and I'm the assigned planner for the Malmuth Parcel Map Project. OK, so this proposed project is a request for a tentative parcel map to subdivide a 9.67 acre parcel into four lots ranging from two to 2.75 acres in size The project site is outlined in red on this aerial imagery. The project is at 704 North Refugio Road in San Ines and is zoned 1E1, single-family residential. The residential neighborhood to the north is also zoned 1E2 and is primarily composed of one acre lots.

The neighborhood to the north and east are developed with single family residences. And the areas to the south and west are agriculture-zoned parcels containing rancho estates, vineyards, winery, and agriculture. The project is for subdivision of a 9.67 acre parcel into four lots, a 28 foot wide private driveway easement depicted here in blue follows the path of an existing driveway that currently serves the residential development on this site. This easement would allow for improvements to the existing driveway.

A 20 foot wide public utility easement along the northern property line which is depicted in orange, is also proposed. There's an as-built guest house and garage which are proposed to remain on parcel one, which has a star here on the screen. And they're proposed—the guest house is proposed to be validated as a single family dwelling with approval of a separate land use permit.

Proposed parcels two and four, which are highlighted here are currently vacant and may be developed with a single-family residence in the future. And proposed parcel 3 will contain the permitted 2,600 square foot single family dwelling, a detached garage, and private septic system. Which is also in the stars there. Next, I want to draw your attention to the southern property line where a required 100-foot agricultural buffer is proposed. The buffer's measured from the shared property line which is adjacent to the agriculture zoned property that is under commercial agricultural production.

Low intensity residential development, such as single family residences are allowed within this agricultural buffer. So the future proposed single family dwellings for parcels two and four could be located in this area. Lastly, there is a proposed 200-foot wide development restriction area on Proposed Parcel 4 which is shown in light blue. Which is proposed voluntarily to protect private views from the existing single family residence.

The project includes development exclusion areas containing slopes greater than 20%, which are depicted in red, whereas areas with slopes less than 20% are depicted in green. The gentle slopes areas in green are suitable for future development provided they comply with other development standards such as setbacks and the agricultural buffer requirements and development restriction area on parcel 4.

The subdivision is consistent with the county's comprehensive plan. First, there are adequate services available to serve all four parcels. They will be served by the Santa Ynez River Water Conservation District, on-site wastewater treatment systems, County Fire Department and County Sheriff. Second, the project is compatible with nearby agriculture A 100-foot agricultural buffer is included along the southern boundary supported by existing terrain that naturally separates the site from the adjacent agriculture.

There are no known cultural resources on the site. Future development will require an archaeological survey and stop work procedures if any resources are discovered, and that is included in the project conditions and mitigation measures. Next, the subdivision meets hillside and watershed protection standards. There is no grading proposed currently and steep slopes are placed in development exclusion areas.

Future grading on slopes would require geotechnical studies and erosion control plans. The conditions of approval on the map also demonstrate consistency with these policies Regarding visual resources, the subdivision will not change existing views or introduce new development at this stage. Future homes will follow design standards including for building materials, colors, screening, height limits and dark sky lighting requirements. And the site is not located within any designated scenic overlay area.

Next, the site does not contain any known sensitive biological resources. Future development is conditioned to follow standard tree protection nesting bird avoidance requirements and is discussed in the mitigated negative declaration and mitigation measures. And finally, the project is consistent with flood and water quality policies. The site is not within any floodway, and there is a setback from a man-made drainage which is on site.

The stormwater best management practices will be required during future construction to protect water quality and avoid increased runoff. Each parcel is fully compliant and developable. The zoning requires minimum one acre lots and 120 feet of lot width. The four proposed parcels range from 2.18 to 2.74 acres in size, and each is approximately 380 feet wide which exceeds the minimum requirements. And the configuration also meets all setbacks.

Parcel 1 does contain unpermitted structures, but the project requires that these structures are validated with permits or removed within 90 days of map recordation. Parcels 2 and 4 are currently vacant, and parcel 3 contains an existing permitted home. All parcels have confirmed water service, and on-site wastewater systems are feasible. A mitigated negative declaration was prepared under CEQA and it found that all potentially significant environmental impacts can be reduced to less than significant with mitigation. For aesthetics, building materials, screening and dark sky lighting will ensure future development blends with the surroundings For air quality and greenhouse gas emissions, dust control is required during construction as well as energy efficient design and waste reduction measures to keep emissions low.

For biological resources tree protection nesting bird surveys will prevent impacts to vegetation and wildlife For fire protection, defensible space, fire safe construction and vegetation management at the time of future development will reduce any wildfire risk. For geologic conditions, the mapped development exclusion areas avoid steep slopes. And future grading would require geotechnical studies and erosion control plans.

And for water resources, stormwater best management practices such as bile swells, vegetated buffers, use of pervious materials, and roof runoff collection protect water quality and reduce runoff. All mitigation measures are included in the project's conditions of approval and together form the Mitigation Monitoring Program. With these measures in place, environmental impacts are reduced to less than significant.

In conclusion, staff recommends your commission take the following actions which are listed on the screen. First make the required findings for approval including CEQA findings. Adopt the negative declaration and mitigation monitoring program And approve the project subject to the conditions included in attachment B. This concludes staff's presentation. Staff and the applicant are available for questions.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed49:17

CHRIS JERRAMS. Thank you, Ms. Cruz. Open to

0:49 – 0:5522 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 3Proposed49:23

public comment? Or do I open it

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed49:25

up

CommentDarren FriedmanProposedself-stated49:25

for commissioner

CommentPARK YouProposed49:26

comments? MARY ANN BORGESON. Just for a question. We'll go with some questions

CommentDarren FriedmanProposedself-stated49:30

first.

CommentPARK YouProposed49:33

Questions from us.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed49:35

Are there any questions from the commissioners? OK, Commissioner Martinez. COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ Good morning.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 3Proposed49:43

My quick question, if you go to slide number four, the 100-foot ag buffer, is that the dotted line on the bottom, yellow line or is it the entire yellow area?

GuestParkProposed · by introduction50:07

Commissioner Martinez, the agricultural buffer is the highlighted area in yellow. And that's 100 feet from the shared property line with a property that has agriculture.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 3Proposed50:17

OK so the structure that has that large yellow star is just outside of the buffer correct?

GuestParkProposed · by introduction50:28

Sorry, Commissioner Martinez. So on parcel three that the star closest to the buffer is existing single family residence a portion of it is within the buffer and part of it is outside the buffer and on parcel one that structure is entirely within the buffer.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 3Proposed50:48

Okay that's what was bringing my confusion so what's the purpose of the buffer if we already have in a residence within the buffer?

GuestParkProposed · by introduction50:58

Chair Martinez, the purpose of the buffer really impacts non-habitable structures. So single family residences like the two that are located in the buffer are typically allowed because they're considered low intensity development. In the buffer area it would just require certain Garages, carports, parking areas to be located outside the buffer or just have different requirements than the single family dwellings. And it would also require specific landscaping plans which is included as a condition if future landscaping is proposed.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 3Proposed51:37

OK so if I'm that owner and I want to turn that garage into an ADU nothing's going to stop me correct?

GuestParkProposed · by introduction51:46

That's correct ADUs would also be allowed within that buffer.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 3Proposed51:50

Okay so the property that has, so I imagine below that this buffer is a commercial agricultural area am i wrong or right? Just for me looking at the overlay, it looks like.

GuestParkProposed · by introduction52:01

Yes that's correct I can go back to the site so yes directly south it's the Ag-2 property there's currently pasture land and then about 580 feet from the shared property line which is like a dark green if you can kind of see on this vicinity aerial that's where the crops are grown so there's already also kind of a natural setback even greater than what would be required

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 3Proposed52:30

And we've given notice to that owner of this hearing, correct?

GuestParkProposed · by introduction52:35

Yes we have.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 3Proposed52:36

Okay because my sense is is that the ag buffer is not really being utilized or being even honored because you already have a structure there and you have a structure there that can be turned into an ADU and therefore the hundred foot buffer really goes into their property

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 7Proposed53:00

Commissioner Martinez, thank you for your question. It's a good question because there is certain development allowed in the ag buffer so I understand that can be a little bit complicated. So Chapter 21 and Chapter 35 both have regulations for what can be allowed in the ag buffer. So throughout the county there are certain uses that are allowed in the ag buffer.

For instance, like Tatiana mentioned, single-family dwellings, low intensity residential development, ADUs, Residential Accessory Structures may be allowed in the ag buffer area. In contrast to that, industrial or commercial types of development, certain landscaping, certain lighting, certain non-habitable structures are not allowed on the ag buffer. And I also just want to clarify that this consistent with the Chapter 21 and Chapter 35 requirements, P&D coordinated with the Ag Commissioner's Office on this buffer. And they agreed that the buffer was appropriate for the proposed project.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 3Proposed54:01

Oh no, I can see why somebody would say it's appropriate but the reality of it is if you have a structure that's being lived in and you want to do an application as a commercial farmer, you can't. do it because it's within a certain feet from the application. That's why I'm trying to say why are we even calling an ag buffer when it's not even acting as an ag buffer?

That's that's my concern, I understand what you're saying by the codes you're saying we can't do this you can't do that but the realities of its interaction with with a commercial farm below it or next to it is that person can't because there is somebody living within that hundred foot If my buffer is 200 feet from a plant for making an application, I can't make it unless they get permission and they can appeal and they can appeal to the Ag Commissioner and all that. That's that's my concern but if they're not here and they're not gonna object to it I just want to make sure that they were noticed and if they're saying hey I'm not here to agree and nod my head with Martinez about Mr. Martinez about this okay but I just want to make sure I'm aware of it and they have the opportunity be doing something about it okay thank you

0:55 – 1:0016 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed55:12

Commissioner Ford.

CommentPARK YouProposed55:13

Thanks, I just have a couple clarifying questions on that same slide for how is the development or the decision around the 200-foot development restriction made?

GuestParkProposed · by introduction55:32

Yes, Commissioner Ford. So that 200-foot development restriction area was voluntarily proposed by the applicant. So I think I could let them speak to that some more. That is not required by county code.

CommentPARK YouProposed55:45

OK, thank you. I'll wait for that. And then you referred to the validation process. What's involved in that?

GuestParkProposed · by introduction55:55

Commissioner Ford, so the applicant has submitted for a land use permit to validate the unpermitted structures. Following recordation of this map once it gets approved, Parcel 1 will be a legal law and that would allow them to move forward with their application. So that would, the process would be the land use permit and their building permit.

CommentPARK YouProposed56:22

So they just fill, submit a form to say now that this has passed let's make this building valid? A real building? A house? A residence?

GuestParkProposed · by introduction56:37

Yes, Commissioner Ford says I mentioned they did apply for the Lanny's permit. So if we were to, for example, if that was not an existing structure, that would still be the permit path. And since it's unpermitted, we would consider it as a new structure. So they're going through the process which is the Lanny's permit application. They've submitted the required plans and will need to also meet building code requirements.

Thank you.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed57:06

OK, I have a follow-on question to something Commissioner Ford asked. Relative to the 200 feet development restriction, I understand that the applicant is requesting it. Great. The parcel will eventually be sold. The new buyer buys the parcel. How is the new buyer informed where they can and cannot put development on that parcel?

GuestParkProposed · by introduction57:35

Commissioner Guy, so the development restriction area is being recorded with the map. So this information will be available to potential buyers because it's shown and described and it will be a recorded document that will be available.

CommentK. ApplicantProposed · by introduction57:55

Commissioner Guy if I can add to that? And then when a future person comes in to develop that house they'll have to get a permit. the approved permits, look at the conditions on the map and see that there's a development restriction zone on there.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed58:11

OK, thank you. I'm familiar with exclusion zones but I haven't seen the development restrictions so thank you for the answers. I appreciate it. Any other questions from commissioners? At this point do I open it up to public comment?

UnidentifiedClerk of the BoardProposed · by role58:31

Mr. Chair, I believe at this point you should ask the applicant if they have a presentation.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed58:36

Oh thank you. I would like to ask the applicant if they have a presentation and I see Mr. Jones moving forward.

CommentBrett JonesProposedself-stated58:49

My name is Brett Jones. I'm a private land use consultant in St. Ann's Valley with my associate Angela Janes and I haven't met a few of you. I appreciate the site visits, I was able to have with three of you and I'm really just here to answer any questions. I don't have a presentation per se there have been some questions I'd like to address so far through the chair Commissioner Ford the 200 foot setback was voluntarily proposed by the applicants David Malmuth and Jill Sorenson They are currently living in the residence on parcel 3. There's extraordinary views to the east and they've stated they may not even sell the parcel but if they did, they wanted to put that in there to protect their views in the future of looking to the Figueroa and Santa Ynez Mountains.

CommentPARK YouProposed59:48

Perfect. That's very helpful. Thanks.

CommentBrett JonesProposedself-stated59:52

Regarding the validation of the guest house, we are aware of those conditions as all of the conditions in the project and agree to those. I did have I would love like a little bit of clarification on the 200 foot excuse me the 100 foot ag buffer it's my understanding that doesn't affect the property owner to the south Is that correct? That they could do development.

It really just affects our parcels, so this is to through the chair do Commissioner Martinez. Does that make sense?

1:00 – 1:0516 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 3Proposed1:00:35

I know it doesn't restrict their development. It's about the ability to utilize the agricultural purposes of the southern portion of the person below them on the south. And as my example indicated, it's the process is I'm aware from very well aware of it. Is that if I make a crop application and I have 100 foot buffer, it starts from my boundary line and it goes over to the other person's the north part of it.

And then if there's in there, if anyone's living in there than I have to send them a notice. And if that notice that gives them the ability that person that's living there to appeal or object to it Then it goes to the Ag Commissioner who then has a hearing regarding whether or not the application is permissible or not. But typically when I see an ag buffer, there's no development whatsoever within that so there is no appeal process to even worry about and no notice process to go about in regards to these things.

That's the center of my question. So whether they develop it into houses or whatever, that has nothing to do with the ag buffer as far as I know and as far as I'm concerned but thank you. Thank you.

CommentBrett JonesProposedself-stated1:01:47

I have nothing further on here to answer any further questions you might have.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:01:52

Okay it doesn't look like there's any other questions so thank You Mr. Jones Now we get to open to public comment. Thank you very much, please forgive me all of you out there this is only my second meeting I'm learning as we go so any public comment on this project?

UnidentifiedClerk of the BoardProposed · by role1:02:14

And see no hands raised online

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:02:16

okay if there's no request then we will close public comment At this point, are there any other questions from the commissioners? Any other comments? OK. We will move into deliberation.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 3Proposed1:02:42

I'll start.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:02:43

Thank you Commissioner Martinez.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 3Proposed1:02:45

I would make it known that I've made my concerns aware and my concerns are being addressed by the fact that I understand notice is being given to the person who's to the south of this. And if that person isn't going to come and be active in something, and that's the purpose of giving notices. And I really wanted to make sure my comments were on the record or at least noted within the record because if there is ever something in the future about this property it's gonna be while that was brought up, there was an opportunity to be addressed and you didn't come address it. If that person would have showed up and made something of it, I would have really paid attention to it but From what I have in front of me and from the development itself, I would be supportive of this project.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 2Proposed1:03:30

COMMISSIONER MARY CONNOR And I concur with Commissioner Martinez. I'm supportive of this project. COMMISSIONER FORD

CommentPARK YouProposed1:03:39

Yes, I'm really pleased with the concerns that Commissioner Martinez brought up And see no other reason for concern at this time. I can support this action.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:03:53

OK, and I also appreciate the work that was done by staff because this is very valuable and it makes things very clear for us to understand so thank you for that. So I'm looking for a motion? I'll move the staff recommendation. And a second? I'll second. OK any discussion? All in favor? Aye. None opposed. Motion carries. At this point,

we will move on to the next item on the agenda.

UnidentifiedClerk of the BoardProposed · by role1:04:34

I'm sorry. Just give staff a moment to come up. But I'm sorry. Could you clarify who made the motion for the last time? Mayor Connor, okay. Thank you.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:05:21

Okay Mr. Villalobos,

the next item on the agenda.

UnidentifiedClerk of the BoardProposed · by role1:05:25

Thank you Mr. Chair. Next item follows a hearing on request of Ross Dorman, Wallover LLC to consider case number 24-LLH7 and to determine the project is exempt from environmental review pursuant to section 15183 of the state guidelines for implementation of the California Environmental Quality Act

1:05 – 1:129 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:05:49

OK, at this point we'd like to ask staff to share their presentation. Oh sorry, any ex parte comments? Any visits? I'm trying to see which project. OK, I don't have any either. Yes, so now we move on to staff presentation.

CommentVeronica KingProposedself-stated1:06:18

Good morning Mr. Chair and Commissioners, my name is Veronica King and I will be presenting the Wallover LLC Lot Line Adjustment Project a request for a lot line adjustment between two existing parcels The project site is located in a rural agricultural area in the Gleda Valley north of Highway 101 and involves two legal parcels. Parcel one, in red, is addressed as 901 Vareta Leyenda and is 602.42 acres.

Parcel two, in blue, is 34.34 acres and does not yet have an address. Both parcels are currently in agricultural production with lemon and avocado orchards. The lot line adjustment will transfer approximately 78 acres from parcel 1 to parcel 2. This increases parcel 2 to 112 acres, bringing it into conformance with the minimum parcel size for the zone district.

No development is proposed and existing access and utilities will remain unchanged. Here you can see the existing parcel configuration on the left and the proposed configuration on the right. Parcel two shown in blue expands primarily to the south while parcel one shown in red is reduced accordingly. For some background on the existing site conditions, Parcel 2 is currently undeveloped while Parcel 1 contains all existing development including residential development, agricultural support facilities, water infrastructure and onsite wastewater treatment.

As discussed the project adjusts the parcel boundaries but does not change any existing access easements or utilities The lot line adjustment would bring Parcel 2 into conformance with the minimum lot size requirement while also adding areas with gentler slopes to the parcel. This would provide more suitable land for continued agricultural use and more appropriate areas for any future development.

Importantly, the adjustment would not create any additional parcels or increase the allowable density. The project is consistent with all applicable Comprehensive Plan and Galeta Community Plan policies, Chapter 21 land division requirements and the County Land Use and Development Code. Existing development would continue to be adequately served by private water and wastewater systems and the adjusted parcel configuration would provide adequate area to avoid steep slopes and sensitive biological resources such as creeks and environmentally sensitive habitat.

Additionally, the adjustment would not create any zoning non-conformities or violations. Existing development would continue to meet applicable setbacks and Parcel 2's existing non-conforming lot size would be resolved by increasing the parcel to more than 100 acres consistent with the Ag 2 minimum parcel size requirement. For environmental review, the project qualifies for a CEQA guidelines section 15183 exemption because the potential environmental impacts were previously analyzed as part of the Goleta Community Plan EIR.

The project would be compliant with the Goleta Community Plan policies and the project would not result in impacts beyond those previously evaluated in the EIR Staff recommends that your commission make the required findings for approval, determine the project is exempt from CEQA and approve the project subject to the conditions of approval. That concludes my presentation and I'm available for questions.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:10:19

Thank you are there any questions? Okay there are no questions The applicant, is the applicant present and prepared to speak? Thank you.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed1:10:38

Chair, Commissioners, Alan McLeod agent for the owners I'm here just to answer any questions that you may have

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:10:48

Just out of curiosity, why? Why

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed1:10:51

the lot line adjustment? The families own the property for 50 years. They've been ranching the avocados and the lemons. There's no plan to sell the property at this point but any given time in the future they want the option to maybe retain a piece of it if they choose to put it on the market so they've been connected to the property for a long time so that's the main reason why they're wanting to do this lot line adjustment

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:11:18

OK, thank you. Any other questions from the commissioners? No questions. So at this point I'm looking for a motion to accept. Public comment. Oh public comment. Thank you. Open it up for public comment. Anybody from the public care to speak on this issue? Anybody online Mr. Villalobos?

UnidentifiedClerk of the BoardProposed · by role1:11:45

No hands raised online.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:11:47

OK, we'll give them just a moment here. And if there's no questions then we're going to close public comment and then we're going to look for a motion to accept or deliberation.

1:12 – 1:195 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 2Proposed1:12:06

I move the staff recommendation.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:12:11

I would second that. Any further discussion? All in favor? I. Aye. None opposed. Okay, motion carries. Thank you very much to all of you and we will take a moment here before we

move on to the next item. We are going to take a five minute break and we will return momentarily OK, we're coming back on. So

the next item on the agenda. Go ahead Mr. Villalobos. Thank you.

UnidentifiedClerk of the BoardProposed · by role1:19:44

The following is a hearing on the request of Hayden Landon applicant to consider case number 24 DVP 35 as well as 25 CUP 21 and to adopt the mitigated negative declaration case number 26 NGD 1 and the mitigation monitoring program contained in the conditions of approval.

1:20 – 1:3110 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:20:03

Thank you very much. At this point, I'd like to ask staff to share their presentation. Oh yes, thank you very much Commissioner Mary Connor. Any ex parte communication or site visits?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 2Proposed1:20:19

Yes, I do. I visited with Brett Jones, the applicant's representative last week, went on a tour of the property involved, saw the location of the improvements that are proposed for the property. He answered all my questions and I had a very enlightening visit with him and the property.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:20:49

Thank you, Commissioner Mary Conner. I also would like to report that I also did a site visit with Mr. Jones earlier this week along with Commissioner Park. Mr. Jones showed us pretty much the entire parcel as well as the parcels adjacent to it. He showed us where the construction would take place, where the project would take place and he answered all of our questions.

So now I would like to ask staff Please share your report. STEVE

PresenterSteve ConnerPlanning and Development staffProposedself-stated1:21:21

CONNER. Good morning, Commissioners and Chair Guy. I'm Steve Conner, and I'll be presenting this project on behalf of Planning and Development staff. The project before you today is a request for a proposed development plan to allow construction of an equestrian arena along with a request for a land use permit for expansion of an existing equestrian facility and a request for minor conditional use permit to allow small scale special events under the Agricultural Enterprise Ordinance.

These three entitlements are being requested because the two main project components trigger different paths. The development plan and land use permit are requested because the arena square footage exceeds the 15,000 square foot maximum for development in an Ag 240 zone. And an LUP is required for equestrian facilities in Ag 240 zones. The development plan also includes the request for modification to allow four of the required parking spaces to be unmarked and unpaved. The parking location will be described and shown later in this presentation.

A minor conditional use permit will allow small scale special events as an agricultural enterprise ordinance or an AEO use. The proposed project is located off Baseline Avenue in the San Ynez Valley on the east side of Highway 154, roughly halfway between the towns of Los Olivos and San Ynez as shown here. Welcome Commissioner Park.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:22:54

Excuse me for just one moment here Mr. Connor could you please hold I just want to note that Commissioner Park has joined us and he will also be weighing in on this issue so I'd ask you now to please continue

PresenterSteve ConnerPlanning and Development staffProposedself-stated1:23:13

Here's a quick Googler flyover video that gives a little more context for the location. There you go, there's a play button. No, at the

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed1:23:44

bottom. Yeah, there we go. Thank you.

PresenterSteve ConnerPlanning and Development staffProposedself-stated1:24:05

The subject parcel and surrounding properties are zoned AG-2 with a 40 acre minimum lot size These are existing views of the site, with a view from the east showing an existing equestrian barn located on the owner's separate adjacent parcel to the west and a view from the south showing an existing 9,000 square foot garage and ag barn on the subject property located immediately north of the proposed arena development area. And next to the proposed outdoor area for the small scale special events.

Here is a view from the west showing the area generally proposed for small-scale events. The view from the north was taken just before the 9,000 square foot garage barn was constructed in 2025. Here's the site plan depicting the arena in a blue outline and defined outdoor area in red outline where the events will take place. A new stormwater retention basin and a new private on-site wastewater treatment system will be constructed along the southern side of the area The subject property contains approximately 9.7 acres of pasture areas which are located to the north and south of the arena, and then the square pins near the southeast corner of the property.

The property also contains approximately 20 acres of orchard grass cultivation in the northeast portion of the subject property. Parking for the arena on small scale events will be arranged in the orange area shown here. Existing permitted onsite development includes a recently constructed garage Four single-stall horse barns, a horse breeding barn, two hay barns, two horse stall barns.

Two agricultural employee dwellings and an agricultural irrigation reservoir. These elevations depict the proposed 29.5-foot tall arena from the north, south, east, and west. The Central Board of Architectural Review conducted a site visit and determined that the proposed structure could be seen from the north along Roblar Avenue. Therefore, the board requested that the applicant incorporate tall trees to screen the structure.

The board recommended the item returned for preliminary and final approval pending approval by your commission. After the staff report was docketed last week, the applicant requested a change to the first sentence of the proposed project description in order to remove a self-imposed limitation of number of agricultural enterprise small scale special events within the arena to allow the applicant more flexibility. Staff finds that with this change, the project remains consistent with all applicable policies and development standards.

The project was thoroughly reviewed by staff and is consistent with policies regarding availability of adequate surfaces, agricultural resources, aesthetics, visual resources, and compatibility with surrounding development, biological resources, cultural resources, water resources, and noise. The equestrian arena was reviewed for compliance with height limits, setbacks, and parking regulations including development standards and requirements for the AG 240 zone district, development plans, and design review.

The special events were reviewed for safety, noise, duration, number of events and parking. The project has been conditioned to make sure it is consistent with both the policies of the Comprehensive Plan and the San Ynez Valley Community Plan and is consistent with development standards in the County Land Use and Development Code including the Agricultural Enterprise Ordinance.

The project is consistent with all AEO standards because the primary use of the parcel is commercial ag consisting of orchard grass and pasture. At 50 acres, the project meets the minimum premises size. Parking must be located within pre-existing disturbed areas and temporary signage is required prior to events to guide guests to the designated parking area. Dust control measures are required to mitigate the unpaved parking, and a parking coordinator should be required for events attended by 100 or more persons.

Operations in outdoor amplified sound are limited to these hours. And the ag enterprise operator must provide guests with an informational advisory to disclose a potential minor inconveniences from pre-existing agricultural operations, such as noise, dust and odor. Environmental review first included filling out the CEQA checklist that was created for tiering projects off the AEO PEIR, or Program Environmental Report.

Several PEIR mitigations were incorporated into the project as conditions of approval including the requirement to develop and implement a tree protection plan for native trees limiting hours for amplified sound and development and implementation of a fire protection plan The equestrian arena was not considered in the AEO PEIR because it exceeded the 2,500 square foot maximum for new AEO accessory structures. Therefore Mitigated Negative Declaration or MND was prepared for analysis of impacts associated with the arena and circulated for a 30-day public review.

Mitigation measures were incorporated into the project to address impacts that weren't included in the AEOPEIR including BAR approval and a requirement to use natural colors in building materials, incorporation of a new fire protection equipment into the fire protection plan, development and implementation of a source reduction and solid waste management plan, an animal waste management plan, development of an erosion and sediment control plan, and management of construction equipment storage and washout area.

One comment letter was received on the MND from the California Department of Conservation regarding discussion of the conversion of agricultural land to non-agricultural use and project compatibility with the Williamson Act or County Agricultural Preserve contract requirements. No other comment letters were received. The applicant proposes to retain and stockpile all prime farmland topsoils that will be disturbed by the arena development pad, and utilize the stockpile to amend soils elsewhere in the areas with ongoing feedgrass and pasture cultivation.

In conclusion, staff recommends that you make the required findings for approval included in attachment A. Determine that the mitigated negative declaration is adequate and approve the project subject to the conditions included as attachment B and as revised during this presentation. This concludes staff's presentation. Staff and the applicant team are available to answer any questions. Thank you.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:30:45

Thank you very much. Before we move on to questions, I just want to ask Commissioner Park if he's got any ex parte communication or site visits that he'd like to report before we go into the discussion?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed1:30:57

Yes, I met on what day was it? I think it was Monday with you Mr. Guy and with Mr. Jones and I also met with Mr. Connor the same day right yeah I got down here He counts, but in a different way.

1:31 – 1:3626 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:31:18

Thank you very much. I'd like to open it up to questions from the commissioners. And I see Mr. Martinez?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 3Proposed1:31:24

Yes, thank

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:31:25

you,

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 3Proposed1:31:25

Chair. Just for clarification, I keep on hearing outdoor arena. But the reality is that the arena we're talking about is that which is depicted in

PresenterSteve ConnerPlanning and Development staffProposedself-stated1:31:38

slide number nine, correct? Commissioner Martinez to the chair that's correct it's an enclosed air-conditioned or climate controlled arena.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 3Proposed1:31:47

Okay okay so this is going to be utilized for equestrian well it's an equestrian arena and I guess that that's a very capitalized and small scale special events what what events are we talking about in these small scale special events? And what are the restrictions, what defines a special a small special event the number of people What kind of events you can have?

PresenterSteve ConnerPlanning and Development staffProposedself-stated1:32:16

Commissioner Martinez to the chair. Yes, that's correct. The small scale special events are defined by the number of attendees, the number of events that can occur per year in this case. The applicant proposes a number of attendees that exceed what is allowed with a zoning clearance so that the code requires a minor conditional use permit which is approved by the Planning Commission

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 3Proposed1:32:42

Okay and that's why I'm asking is what kind of numbers we're talking about here and the number of people is it a small event is less than 100 or less than 200?

CommentK. ApplicantProposed · by introduction1:32:55

Commissioner Martinez, I'm gonna read here and let's see. No more than 12 small-scale special events will be held per year. Each event will have a maximum of 150 attendees.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 3Proposed1:33:08

Okay, 150 and a small scale event can be anything from a concert to

CommentK. ApplicantProposed · by introduction1:33:14

wedding dinner reception parties it can be a question related yeah the AEO kind of lists some examples um of types of events that can have

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 3Proposed1:33:26

okay and I imagine the fire

CommentK. ApplicantProposed · by introduction1:33:27

code is going to be very We're going to be looking at a number of things. The first thing we're going to

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 3Proposed1:33:31

look

CommentK. ApplicantProposed · by introduction1:33:32

at is how many parking spaces are applicable

not transcribed≈18s of audible speech the AI couldn’t make out▸ listen
PresenterSteve ConnerPlanning and Development staffProposedself-stated1:34:04

Commissioner Martinez, through the chair. I might need to look up that exact number. I believe it was something like 1.5. I think the number we arrived at was 69 spaces that would be required for this number of people. CHRIS

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 3Proposed1:34:18

RODGERS. Great. And it's within that defined orange area as you indicated previously? TODD BANDUCCI. That is correct. CHRIS RODGERS. OK. Thank you.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:34:31

I have a question. Commissioner Americana.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 2Proposed1:34:38

A clarification, if you would, about the small scale special event. So we're talking about the space inside the new building and we're also talking about events outside the new building. Am I correct?

PresenterSteve ConnerPlanning and Development staffProposedself-stated1:34:54

Commissioner Maricone through the chair, yes that's correct. We had looked originally at just the outdoor area but in more recent developments and talking with the applicant and agent they expressed a desire to be able to hold events inside the arena as well.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 2Proposed1:35:12

The condition in attachment B2 says there will be Events no more than 150 people, no more than 12 small scale per year. The change in the condition that you put on the screen earlier in the hearing seemed to change that language. So if you could put that back up on the screen so that we could see it would be helpful.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 7Proposed1:35:52

Commissioner Mary Connor, I want to clarify that the change is only to the limit to the number of events that can happen in the arena area in the enclosed arena. So previously the project applicant was limiting the number of events in the arena to one to two per year Since the staff report was docketed, they would like to be able to have more than potentially one to two per year in the arena still contained within the total of 12 per year. So there's no change to the total number of events that are being requested.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 2Proposed1:36:25

And that's within the arena? How about outside? Does the same limitation apply outside? That's

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 7Proposed1:36:29

correct. The same limit applies for the entire property, for the entire

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 2Proposed1:36:33

premise. OK. That clarifies it. Thank you.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:36:38

Commissioner Park?

1:36 – 1:4217 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed1:36:42

Just so we're really, really clear. If you're confused about this blame me because at the site visit I didn't blame me anyway but I asked Mr Jones where did the limit of Let's take that out and let's make it flexible. For example, somebody might schedule a big birthday party outdoors in April but sometimes we get rain in April and so they may want to move it into the arena And so why limit the arena to only twice a year? Let it be for all 12 or maybe none of the 12, but let them have that flexibility. It doesn't affect the neighbors. The AEO says nothing about it. There's no reason for us to stick it in there.

So let me move on to my question and you may have answered it when you answered Mr. Martinez' question, but I'm not sure I heard it right. What I want to know is How many events and how many people for a small scale event would be allowed if there was just a zoning clearance? So whenever I have a conditional use permit matter, I want to compare what we can allow with our discretion with what you would be allowed to do anyway.

not transcribed≈16s of audible speech the AI couldn’t make out▸ listen
UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 7Proposed1:38:24

Commissioner Park through the chair, that's a good question and I have the AEO regs in front of me because it's hard to remember. So the way that the AEO reads is on a premise of 40 acres to 320 acres which is the category that this premise is in they would not be able to exceed 50 attendees at a special event with a zoning clearance so that's the ministerial permit path That's why this project requires a minor CUP because they're requesting more than 50 per

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed1:38:56

event. And that would be how many events under a ZC?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 7Proposed1:39:01

That would still be 12 events per year and four event days per month

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed1:39:07

So really when we look at this overall, the only real change is number of people at these 12 events.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 7Proposed1:39:17

Right and I can also since they have the regulations in front of me I know that there were some questions about the types of events so the AEO also lists farm-to-table dinners cooking classes weddings parties writing or yoga workshops and similar gatherings And I wanted to also clarify. I love

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 3Proposed1:39:37

that word similar, how the lawyers can just play an accordion.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 7Proposed1:39:42

They're good questions and this is the first AEO project before your commission so it's good that you're asking these questions. I also wanted to clarify that the AEO doesn't specifically have a parking requirement for small scale special events. The requirement is that there are sufficient parking on site and the project is proposing 69 spaces.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed1:40:03

I have a follow-up on that. But realistically, they could park three or four hundred on the property if not more given the size of it and what way out. Correct?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 7Proposed1:40:16

I think with the onsite agros that they have, they do have quite a bit of parking area. Yeah.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed1:40:20

Not

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:40:20

an issue.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 7Proposed1:40:21

Thanks.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:40:23

Okay Commissioner Ford. Any other questions or comments from the commissioners? Okay, then we will go to the applicant. Mr. Jones could you please go ahead and share with us?

CommentBrett JonesProposedself-stated1:40:51

Good morning again. I was remiss in my first item in not thanking staff so I'd like to publicly do that and thank Tatiana, Gwen and Travis for their support of that project. And same I would like to thank Steve and Gwen and Travis for their support of this project I don't have a presentation again, here to answer any questions. We understand the conditions of approval and look forward to your comments and questions in trying to answer those for you this morning.

Thank you.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed1:41:26

Commissioner Park? Yes, Mr. Jones, I'd like to ask you about other arenas of this size in the valley. I think I know how many there are but maybe I'm off. But I think it's important to illustrate to the other commissioners that even though this seems like a large number of square footage, this is what happens when you have these covered arenas.

CommentBrett JonesProposedself-stated1:41:53

Through the chair, Commissioner Park I'm not a horse guy but yes, I have done three arenas in the valley. All three have been at the same size as 45,000 square feet which you know admittedly is large is a 50 acre parcel so I think that is kind of standard practice for horse operations to be able to do the training required within such an inside

1:42 – 1:5119 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed1:42:23

Well, I thought of several. And then every once in a while, I'll look at Google Earth of the area and I'm always finding something else that's hidden in the trees or wherever else. So it's... The point is, it's not an uncommon thing for this kind of thing. These arenas are two dimensions that are useful in the horse world for dressage and other things. And they're not as big as polo fields but it's sort of a standard size if you're going to cover an arena.

Thanks.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:42:57

Any questions? No questions. Thank you. At this point, we'd like to open it up to public comment. Anybody in the room care to share? Mr. Villalobos any online?

UnidentifiedClerk of the BoardProposed · by role1:43:15

No hands raised online.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:43:17

OK then I'm going to close public comment session. Deliberation. We'll go to deliberation. Commissioner Park. COMMISSIONER

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed1:43:35

PARK You know, of course I want to hear from the other commissioners but I'm prepared to make a motion to approve this big picture If we designed a project in a property to fit what the AEO is all about, it'd be hard to come up with a better one than this. Okay? It's properties well served by a large driveway but it's entirely an interior parcel. It's not really fronting any roads.

Hardly anyone would ever notice anything happening here That arena will absorb far more than 150 people and there's just really no reason to deny this project. It's well designed, it's very modest in terms of what their ask is under the CUP so I'm ready to support it and make the motion.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:44:39

Commissioner Ford?

CommentPARK YouProposed1:44:41

Thanks. I'm so glad to know about Commissioner Park's support. I know nothing about equestrian arenas. Well, I knew nothing until I read this really comprehensive report and just want to say thank you because it I think you addressed every particular question that was asked and I learned a lot. So between Commissioner Park and this presentation, I can certainly support this.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:45:11

OK, Commissioner Mary Connor.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 2Proposed1:45:14

And I concur with my colleagues who have just spoken. The staff report was very comprehensive and helpful. The site visit, I thought, was terrific. It gives you a sense of the scale of the property and its location as Commissioner Park pointed out. And this to me is an easy yes.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:45:36

OK, and Commissioner Martinez?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 3Proposed1:45:38

Yes, I would completely agree with my fellow commissioners and especially just reminiscing as to how this AEO came to be. This is the kind of project that was envisioned from at least from the get-go for me. Whole new industry out there. It'll be a whole new industry and you see it out in an Arroyo Grande and so forth. And this is what we're asking for and this is what's being delivered. So I'd be in support of it.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:46:06

OK, and my comment would be that after reading the report and then doing the site visit, the site is a perfect location for this type of arena. It makes sense when you look at all of the structures around it and you look at the property lines and the easements around it, it totally makes sense. So this is also a project very easy for me to support. So at this point I'm going to ask for a motion Commissioner Park?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed1:46:39

Yes, I'm going to move that we approve the matter and take the recommended actions that are on slide 14 of the presentation. They're also in the staff report and that includes making the required findings for approval of project adopting a mitigated negative declaration and approving the project including the minor change that was made today to the project description

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:47:06

Thank you, Commissioner Park. Commissioner Ford?

CommentPARK YouProposed1:47:08

Thank you. Second.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:47:10

All in favor? Aye. None opposed. Motion carries. So we're going to just take a moment here for us to get regrouped for

the next item on the agenda. They came in like three large groups from you. Yeah, there was a long one. Mr. Villalobos, I'm going to ask that before we ask the staff to prepare their presentation if you could read and share with us about letters that have come in past our time.

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UnidentifiedClerk of the BoardProposed · by role1:49:09

Thank you. The following is a hearing on the request of APC Towers applicant to consider case number 25 COP 23 and to determine the project is exempt from CEQA pursuant to state CEQAs guidelines section 15303 and 15304. And to address your requests, so the deadline for submittal of comment letters for the commission today's hearing was Monday at noon items longer than the page in length. We do have two items that came in a little bit late, so the Planning Commission can vote to include those into the record but it requires a four-fifths vote. I'll just read who they're from and I apologize in advance if I mispronounce anyone's name.

So the first is an email from Pam And it was an email followed by a series of photos. And the second, and so that was dated Monday at 417 p.m., and there was one that came in, I think it was emailed overnight on Monday, so it was received on Tuesday. Long letter, seven pages from Samantha Flynn. The one that was on the dais this morning is a page in length so it does not trigger that requirement.

So I think for these to be included we would need a motion to include them, a second and then four of the five commissioners to vote yes.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:51:01

Okay I'm gonna look to Commissioner Park to begin us here since it's in his district.

1:51 – 1:5718 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed1:51:08

I'm gonna go out of character here because I always oppose these requests Because they irritate me because I don't like reading something that's long at the very last minute. On the other hand, I've looked at these and I think we should put them in the record. I'll tell you why and I will move to do that. One, the first one from Pam, you mispronounced name so I won't.

It's short, it just has some photos and the photos are helpful to us. They are photos that we don't have that kind of a photo. The second letter from Samantha Flynn is long. But it's very well written. And what I appreciate about it is, it's not just kind of a repetitious litany of complaints. It's actually very constructive letter because it says OK here's what I recommend you do and this is what you should do to properly investigate this. And I think that that's instructional for Planning Commission. You may not agree with it but it's worthwhile having it there and I think it's appropriate that it be in the record.

So I would move to admit both of those into the record. CHRIS

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:52:32

RODGERS. Commissioner Ford? MARY ANN

CommentPARK YouProposed1:52:35

BORGESON. I'll second that. CHRIS

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:52:37

RODGERS. OK, all in favor?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed1:52:38

COMMISSIONER MARY ANN BORGESON.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:52:42

Aye. CHRIS RODGERS. I didn't ask for deliberation so Commissioner

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 2Proposed1:52:45

Mary

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:52:45

Connor.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 2Proposed1:52:46

So I tend to agree with my colleagues on this issue With one caveat, and that is I would ask the question as to whether or not the late arrival of the letter made it difficult or impossible for the applicant or the staff to respond to the letter at this hearing. If the receipt of the late letter causes either the applicant or the staff to ask for more time to be able to deal with the issues raised in the letter Then that lateness has had a practical effect.

And so I would ask, before we vote on whether to accept these letters or not, that we hear the staff recommendation, ask the staff the question, not just the staff recommendation but the staff report and we hear from the applicant as well and ask the question, has this letter, which I agree is long, comprehensive, and well-written Does it cause you to need more time to respond to the letter? Let's ask that question before we decide whether or not to accept it. I know that's a little cumbersome, but I think the process that we follow in deliberating on these matters has consequences and we should If we can, make decisions when we're called on to make decisions and the information is before us. And let's see if we can do that. So that's my personal preference is to hold off on voting on this motion until after we've had the staff report and the applicant's presentation.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:54:33

CHRIS RODGERS. OK. Thank you, Commissioner Conner. I'm going to ask Commissioner Ford. MARY

CommentPARK YouProposed1:54:37

ANN BORGESON. I disagree because I think once you You know, you're asking for staff response to it and input. Then you've accepted it. And so I think it's still a matter of whether this commission accepts those two letters.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 2Proposed1:54:53

CLARE DUDASSEY JR.: I'm actually not suggesting that the staff respond to the letter. I'm just asking whether the staff needs additional time to respond to the letter. That's the question I would like to ask both the staff and the applicant, to see if we're going to be ready to move ahead with a decision today. MARY ANN

CommentPARK YouProposed1:55:17

BORGESON Well it could be semantics but I think that once you involve the staff, we've accepted it. But I'll leave that up to other people. I've seconded the motion.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:55:35

I believe we need to go to a roll call

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 3Proposed1:55:37

vote. I would say this, I completely agree with the Commissioner here in regards to just the process that we're here if I'm the applicant and we're considering something that I have not had the time to consider and be prepared to address it I think out of ultimate fairness and consideration to the applicant and that they should have the opportunity to say well I've read it I didn't see it before today I don't even know if they even have it Tell you the truth.

So if that's going to be part of their thing where they are going to be held to answer to it, where we're considering it and asking them questions maybe based upon this letter these photos I think they should be provided that opportunity to review it and provide it to us because I wouldn't want to show up to anything, well it's like showing up to a trial and not knowing what the witness is going to say in response. That's why we take depositions before so that's my only analogous to it. I understand the request for it and I don't necessarily dispute it but I think we should hear from the applicant and from staff of whether it's something that is going to be considered and even addressed in this matter

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:56:53

I have a question. I'm wondering if a precedent has been set in the past as far as how we deal with these letters that come in afterward, because if we open this up to staff and the rebuttal and so forth are we setting a new protocol where we might already have a protocol in place?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed1:57:13

May I speak to that?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:57:15

Yes please Commissioner Park

1:57 – 2:2219 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed1:57:19

I think it's totally appropriate to ask the questions that Mr. Americana and Mr. Martinez are asking. I asked the same question when I read this letter yesterday, so everybody has had a chance to see it because I normally don't support this kind of thing. But I made the decision to support it. And the question I asked was, and it's one that we see as lawyers all the time, is there surprise with a massive amount of new information that can't be digested?

Okay. Oddly, that often comes up when the applicant generally brings in a lot of new information and somebody who's challenging it says wait, I've had no opportunity to see this and sometimes I'll ask for a continuance. But as a practical matter, I kind of internalize the question that they're asking. But it's still an appropriate question and if they'd like to hear an answer to it, I think we should especially since this is a practical matter.

four votes to pass. So if either of the other two commissioners that have brought this up decides I haven't been satisfied, the motion is going to fail anyway. So I think it won't take very much effort to answer the questions that Mr. Mayor O'Connor has and whether it fits protocols or not. We're kind of loose here. We do what works. OK.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:58:49

Let me ask the other commissioners, are there any objections other than what Commissioner Ford has already stated?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 2Proposed1:58:59

I'm sorry, what's the question?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:59:02

Are there any other objections to asking your question of staff? Oh, got it.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 2Proposed1:59:07

Now I understand.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:59:10

Okay, I am going to go with the majority in this case and ask Commissioner Mary Connor if you don't mind re-asking your question to the staff. Chair and Commissioners if I

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 4Proposed1:59:22

can just interrupt? Yes please. So I have received information from both the applicant and staff they

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:59:29

haven't reviewed the letter. They haven't reviewed the letter okay well in that case I think we can very easily do a roll call vote I think we know where this is going to go

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 3Proposed1:59:37

But may I make a suggestion chair?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:59:39

Yes, please.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 3Proposed1:59:42

I think the question is whether if they, how do I put this? Are we are we to allow them the opportunity to review it and say hey I need some time to review this thing and then it does have an impact because then in a way we are kind of putting the cart before the horse in a sense. It's what it's coming down to so if we accept the letter then or are we saying let's accept if we accept the motion Then the letter goes in front of the staff and the applicant, and then they have the opportunity to say we need more time to address it.

We need to come back and address the questions within it. Are we doing it that way or are we doing it the way where we're going to have them look at this which is really considering it?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed2:00:28

Mr. Chair, it's my motion that I'd like to table the motion to accept the letter until we have proceeded with the hearing because it may very well be moot and I don't want to spend a lot of time and create a little conflict about it when it maybe moot anyway. In fact, I predict it will be

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed2:00:46

so let's just table it. Any objections to tabling it?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 2Proposed2:00:51

No objection.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed2:00:52

Okay, in this case we're going to table that and before we go on to the presentation I do want to ask if there's any ex parte communication or site visits from the commissioners.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed2:01:09

I can't recall any ex parte communications I made an extensive site visit this morning. I got up really early and drove all around the neighborhood and made some circles, and then I had the opportunity to do it all over again driving back from Santa Maria. So I'm reporting all that.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed2:01:32

Okay, I'd also like to share that when I saw this item on the agenda, I asked for permission to view the site. By the time I had received permission to review the site, I had already been there so I have seen the site. Driven around the streets and I drove into the driveway, but I did not get out of my car because I didn't have permission. So I didn't go very far into the property so I've seen a bit but it's solely on my own Okay and no other comments so now we'll go ahead and open it up to the staff presentation

CommentFrancisco Vargas County PlannerProposedself-stated2:02:17

Good morning commissioners. My name is Francisco Vargas County Planner I will be providing a grand overview of the proposed T-Mobile Tier 4A telecom project, case number 25CUP-00023. This project is a request for a conditional use permit. The project includes a telecommunications facility designed as a faux eucalyptus that is 68 feet tall in the Agriculture 110 zone district.

The project site outlined in yellow is a 10-acre parcel zoned Agriculture 110 located off 1626 Calzada Avenue, San Ynez within the 3rd Supervisorial District. The location of the facility within the subject parcel is identified with a yellow circle on the eastern side of the parcel. The general area consists of large agricultural parcels over 5 acres and some up to 40 acres in size The area is characterized by rural farm residential and agricultural equestrian uses.

The subject parcel is relatively flat, located approximately 1,400 feet west of Edison Street and approximately 1,930 feet west of Highway 154. This slide shows the project site in red within the Agriculture 110 zoning. Note all adjacent nearby parcels in the general vicinity are zoned agriculture as well, with some single-family residential shown in yellow located approximately 700 feet southwest of the proposed facility area.

This is the overall site plan which shows the location of the facility within the project site. Note the facility is proposed away from the nearest road on the east side of the 10-acre parcel. The tower itself is proposed to be approximately 1,221 feet east of Calzada Avenue and the perimeter fenced area would be approximately 1,205 feet east of Calzada Avenue The site contains existing overhead power lines which run east, I'm sorry west to east along the northern property line and terminate near the center of the site as shown in the dashed orange line at the top. The project proposes to tie into the existing utility pole infrastructure by routing new underground lines from their proposed facility area to the existing lines One new utility pole will be required to be installed on site.

The location of that pole will be noted on the next slide. So this is a close-up of the lease area, it also shows other components of the proposed facility including the 8 foot perimeter fence adjacent transformer required to being closed, the new utility line configuration, location of the 37.5 foot utility pole and the proposed fire turnaround required for emergency access This slide includes the west and south elevations.

The proposed height of the telecommunications facility is 68 feet tall. The height is measured from the existing grade to the tallest branch. The design is that of a eucalyptus tree. This design addressed input received from the Central Board of Architectural Review, referred to as CBAR, and is conditioned to return to CBAR after approval of the CUP. The fencing proposed includes an eight foot tall, corrugated non-reflective metal fence design as recommended by CBAR.

This is the east elevation showing both the telecom and the 37.5 foot utility pole to give you a better understanding of the scale of both structures. So the following few slides include the photo simulations provided by the applicant so you can better understand what the facility will look like once constructed. The left image shows the existing view without the facility and the right image shows the same view and identifies a proposed facility with a call-out.

This first elevation shows the project site looking southeast from Calzada Avenue The second slide compares the view looking northwest from Edison Street. And this third slide compares the view looking southwest from Highway 154. This is an exhibit prepared by the applicant, or provided by the applicant which compares the existing service coverage versus the updated coverage as a result of the project.

Red represents poor coverage, yellow represents fair coverage and green represents good coverage. The image to the left shows the existing coverage, and the image on the right shows the new, in other words, proposed coverage. The applicant prepared an alternative site analysis included with attachment F of the staff report. The analysis indicated over 15 sites in the vicinity were considered for the telecom site. However, in all cases either the property owners were not interested or it was determined that the location did not fully meet The needs to address the gap in coverage.

The project will meet all applicable AUDC development standards, comprehensive plan and federal requirements. For example, the project meets the required setbacks, the height limitation of 100 feet since it is a 68 foot tower and also incorporates design recommendations provided by CBAR last fall 2025. It also includes other recommendations such as the corrugated fencing and natural colors for the branches and leaves.

The applicant also provided an Electromagnetic Energy Compliance Report, otherwise referred to as an RF report, and was prepared by a third-party consultant which is also included with Attachment F of the staff report The report indicates the project will comply with the relevant federal compliance FCC standards and will require specific safety signage at the perimeter of the lease area.

Staff determined that the project is exempt from CEQA pursuant to CEQAs Exemption 15303, which applies to new construction or conversion of small structures. And in this case, applies to the monopole, the ground level equipment cabinets and the fencing. Staff also determined that the project is exempt from CEEQA pursuant to CEEQA exemption 15304 minor alterations to land and is applicable in this case based on the minimal grading required.

With this, staff recommends the following to the Planning Commission. Number one, make the required findings for approval of the project specified in attachment A of this staff report including CEQA findings. Number two, determine if the project is exempt from CEQAs pursuant to state CEQA guidelines section 15303 and 15304. Number three, approve the project case number 25 CUP-00023 subject to the conditions of approval included as attachment B.

This concludes staff's presentation and we're happy to answer any questions.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed2:09:56

OK I believe there are going to be quite a few questions but just before we open with the questions I'm gonna ask that we take a short break Any objections to a short break? Okay. Five minute break and we'll be right back, thank you. OK, we are coming back from our break now. And I would like to start by opening up for questions from the commissioners and so Commissioner Park?

2:22 – 2:2726 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed2:22:22

Yes. Mr. Vargas, thank you for your staff report very complete as always a few things one could you go back to I think it was slide 9 and it was the coverage map there you go on that after Well, actually it's on all of them. We see sort of a slash starting near the lower right-hand corner and it goes almost right past this site. Is that Highway 154 just so we can put this map in context?

CommentFrancisco Vargas County PlannerProposedself-stated2:23:10

Commissioner Park through the chair, correct. That is highway 154 on the

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed2:23:15

right

CommentFrancisco Vargas County PlannerProposedself-stated2:23:15

hand side.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed2:23:16

And if we look at the afters it shows an area in green kind of surrounding the site and that's where there would be good coverage you know improved coverage it's kind of the point of this?

CommentFrancisco Vargas County PlannerProposedself-stated2:23:31

Correct.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed2:23:31

Okay and it shows a lot of land that's on the other side east side of 154 correct? Correct. Okay, in this coverage map it's in the electromagnetic report Just so that people can follow where these maps are.

CommentFrancisco Vargas County PlannerProposedself-stated2:23:55

That is correct, part of attachment F.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed2:23:57

Okay I want to ask you about other antennae that are located in what's often called the heart of the valley and it's not just locals that call it that it's in the Sundance Valley Community Plan which is You know, more or less the flat area that's bounded by 154 there on the east and by 246 on the bottom. And to the left, Alamo Pintado Road. It's all generally flat usually Ag-1 properties or even residential zone properties they're all Ag-10s, Ag-5s things like that.

Are there any other antennae of this size in the heart of the valley to your knowledge?

CommentFrancisco Vargas County PlannerProposedself-stated2:24:46

To my knowledge, I would have to look that up.

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UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed2:25:04

As opposed to a eucalyptus tree or Disneyland ride. Does that ring a bell with any of you? I guess it's so well camouflaged, I can't remember where it is anymore.

CommentK. ApplicantProposed · by introduction2:25:22

Commissioner Park, we're looking. We're not finding it. We did see some withdrawn water tower cases. We do recall the one in Lompoc, but we're not finding an exact one in SY Valley. But we'll keep scanning our records to see if we can find anything.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed2:25:40

I have some other questions that I'll ask of Mr. Ambrose. Is there a separate alternative site study here? I see language in the same report we've been referring, but is there a separate site study? I couldn't find one in the record.

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UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 7Proposed2:26:04

I'm sorry Commissioner Park through the chair would you mind repeating the question

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UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed2:26:07

is that I think is in the, I can't remember what you call this, the IRC report or whatever.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 7Proposed2:26:29

That's correct it's in the RF report which is attachment F to the staff report and we have it prepared if there's any information you want to bring up on the screen in

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed2:26:37

that report. Okay and also I'm used to seeing separate coverage maps as exhibits but here we've basically got that but it's in that same report right?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 7Proposed2:26:50

That's correct.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed2:26:51

OK, well I may ask you more questions later but I'm going to try them with Mr. Ambrose first because I think he'll probably know better.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 7Proposed2:26:59

Thank you and I've been researching our permit records about your question about other telecommunications facilities a faux water tank there was an application for a faux water tank on Roblar Avenue so I think that's what you're discussing it's 50 feet tall

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed2:27:16

Whatever happened to it?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 7Proposed2:27:17

I'm looking at the status. I mean, I can't remember

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed2:27:19

ever having these denied. They get fiddled with but rarely denied.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 7Proposed2:27:27

I'll keep researching

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed2:27:28

and we can do that too. It's okay. It's not central to this thing. Oh well. There is one someone told me last night on Boardwalk if you saw. Yeah there you go. I think so too. Okay

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 2Proposed2:27:41

thank you. That comment is not in the record because she's not on a microphone

2:27 – 2:3413 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed2:27:50

No, you know I'll just repeat that someone from the audience has pointed out that I have excellent memory and I mean that's implied not explicitly stated and that we do in fact have an installation on Roblar Avenue of a approximately 50-foot faux water tank. Thanks

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed2:28:09

Okay, I also have a few questions. I'm going to ask you to go back to slides 9 10 and 11 if you don't mind And I'm looking at the proposed eucalyptus tree on the after side of each of the slides So I'm trying to figure out the size of the tree. I understand we said 68 feet, but I don't have a point of reference so I want to ask a few questions. In this part of the Santines Valley is the maximum height of a building 35 feet?

Is it the same as it is for other parts of Santa Barbara

CommentFrancisco Vargas County PlannerProposedself-stated2:28:55

County? Chairperson Guy, so the maximum height for a regular building would be 35 feet. However for telecoms it is a different threshold under a CEP they are allowed to have up to 100 foot tower. Okay thank you

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed2:29:09

I'm just trying to figure perspective So a single family house would have about a 15 feet to 20 feet high roof and a two-story, but we're limited in Santa Barbara County at 35 feet. Okay I understand that then my next question is the trees around it? I'm having a hard time telling from the photos what types of trees and I know Eucalyptus was accepted and I think it's easiest to tell perhaps on Slide 10.

Again, I'm trying to get the perspective because looking at slide 10, the tower looks tiny but the trees to the right look huge so if that tower is 68 feet, I would assume that those trees are going to be about 250 feet tall or it's about perception and I'm just curious because because of the impact to the neighborhood having a soul tree versus, you know how visible it is.

So the question then becomes Do we have any other 68 feet or 100 feet poles, or concealed towers? Not the water tower. I'm talking about poles, just the pole by itself, or the concealed pole disguised as a tree. Do we have any others that are 68 feet to 100 feet tall in the Santa Ynez Valley?

CommentFrancisco Vargas County PlannerProposedself-stated2:30:37

Chairperson Guy, I'm not aware of any other facilities in the area that tall. Okay.

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CommentK. ApplicantProposed · by introduction2:30:47

Chair Guy, as a caveat to that, we're not aware of any off the top of our head. That doesn't mean there haven't been any approved. We would need to really dig into... I mean, we have dozens and dozens and dozens of wireless projects we've approved so it would take some work for us to dig up that info.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed2:31:06

OK, well I'm curious because of the site location. Going back to what Commissioner Park was saying, that site location seems to be critical for T-Mobile. because of the range. What I'm trying to figure out is the height of the concealed tower versus other concealed towers that might be providing services in the other areas. I'm trying to understand, because there are some concerns about the height and there's other concerns as well. So I'm just trying to understand my mind.

Do any of the other commissioners have any questions?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 2Proposed2:31:48

A couple of questions. First of all, can you explain the commission's authority with respect to RF issues in deciding this matter from the letters we've received? There are community concerns about RF issues. And I just want to understand the scope of the commission's authority to deal with RF factors in making our decision.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed2:32:20

CHAIRMAN CLARE DUDA & COMMISSIONER MARC KONNER Chair Guy and Commissioner Mary Connor, There is a significant amount of preemption when it comes to RF emissions for telecom facilities. So as long as a facility complies with the FCC requirements pertaining to RF emissions, then your board is unable to regulate the facility on that factor.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 2Proposed2:32:53

OK, that's a clear answer to the question. Let me ask a second question and it branches off, no pun intended, the chair's question about other towers in the valley. Are there other trees that are 68 feet or taller within the, I'll just say the relevant area? I'll let you all define what the relevant area is. But are there other trees that are that tall or taller in the valley, or in the Central Valley to use Commissioner Park's phrasing?

CommentK. ApplicantProposed · by introduction2:33:41

COMMISSIONER MARK KONNER. Tough question for us. We just do not know. Like, we do not have a survey of trees. I don't know if Commissioner Park would want to weigh in. I suspect just from visiting that there are trees that are that tall. But I can't tell you with right here right now where those are or anything like that. And I just can't. It's just something we don't have data on.

But see a lot of really big trees in the valley.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 2Proposed2:34:11

OK. I appreciate your candor.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed2:34:15

I can address that in detail. I don't know if this is the time to do it, but I certainly will at some point today. That's why I did so much driving around. Not why I did the second round of inspections, but the first round. That's exactly what I was looking at by species, height and location.

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2:34 – 2:4215 turns

CommentPARK YouProposed2:34:36

Thanks a lot. I don't know if I'm overstating it, but I think maybe almost everyone has a concern about the height itself. And so I asked my favorite friend, Chat GPT for some help. And to answer your question, 68 feet pretty much translates into 6 and 1 half to 7 stories tall. When I asked the question about other trees in the area that are 68 feet, CHAT GPT only came up with a few examples from the Santa Barbara area, not this part of the county.

That's just for information sake, but mostly I'm interested in really what was done about establishing that this had no issues or concerns around the archaeological location of it and the tribal cultural resource area.

CommentFrancisco Vargas County PlannerProposedself-stated2:35:48

Commissioner Ford to the chair, we do have a standard condition. Whenever there is grading, we apply this condition in the event that any discoveries are made during grading they would have to inform the property agencies for that. So there is a condition on there to cover that.

CommentPARK YouProposed2:36:04

Do you have any sense for whether any other developments or buildings in the area have had concerns or have found resources?

CommentFrancisco Vargas County PlannerProposedself-stated2:36:18

There are no known resources as far as we know.

CommentPARK YouProposed2:36:23

OK, thanks.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed2:36:27

Any other questions from the commissioners? You ready David? Mr. Villalobos, are you ready for us to open it up to the public comment?

UnidentifiedClerk of the BoardProposed · by role2:36:45

I think we need to ask the applicant if they have a presentation.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed2:36:48

Oh, the applicant yes okay sorry about that I'd like to ask the applicant if you have a presentation please. Please come up and introduce yourself

PresenterJerry AmbroseAPC TowersProposedself-stated2:37:02

Good morning, Chairman, Commissioners. Excuse me, I have a cold. My name is Jerry Ambrose. So I'm here on behalf of APC Towers. I do not have a formal presentation above and beyond what staff has presented. I think it's very detailed and comprehensive. I'll do my best to, I guess, address your some comments and some questions in no particular order. You mentioned about the number of comments or questions about the height and the perception of The property kind of goes down, and then where the house is it goes up. And then it kind of goes back down to where the site's located. Also if you were on site and you were looking directly to where the tower is going to be located, the trees that are immediately adjacent within about 50 to 75 feet, the tallest tree right there is about 50 feet high.

So this would be again 18 feet taller than a tallest tree that's only about 70 feet away. And when you're back on Calzada if you're looking to the back of the property That 50-foot tree is somewhat barely visible. If you're standing there, you're not going to say wow that's a 50 foot tree standing above everything else. So that's just a perspective on that. Also I believe some of the neighbors were questioning the validity Photo mockups, photo simulations. We do hire an engineering firm to do these precisely.

We've had them do them for years. We've presented them to the county for years so they are accurate. Another question came up about I believe the reference or the questions about hey are there any existing towers? I believe you're probably asking about hey are their co-location opportunities In this particular case, T-Mobile is contracted with APC Towers. APC Towers is what we refer to as a tower company that they market towers for co-location.

So because T-Mobile has an exclusive contract with APC Towers T-Mobile is not looking or cannot co-locate with any other tower in the vicinity. So we had to look for a location where APC could build a new tower. And again, if this gets approved it will be marketed essentially to Verizon and AT&T. Also, I did read the letters that I could read or did read had an opportunity to read. There were a lot again a lot of questions back to the question about views and views from essentially from private property so when we go out and we look for a site location one of the factors we consider is minimizing public views. A county code Almost every city or county code has statements or findings about minimizing views from public roadways. So in this case, again we're approximately a quarter mile from the nearest public road so in our opinion and as staff supports the project, we are meeting that goal of the county to minimize visual views from public roads.

And also, I just have a question about the item of tabling the letters that came in late. Is there an opportunity for the person who wrote that letter to speak those concerns in public testimony today? That way everyone can hear what they are and we can react accordingly.

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UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed2:41:25

As long as they're here, yes.

PresenterJerry AmbroseAPC TowersProposedself-stated2:41:27

Or online. Or online, yes, thank you. That's all I had for now. I'm here to answer any additional questions you may have. OK,

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed2:41:36

I see Commissioner Martinez is lit up and I also have some questions. But Commissioner Martinez? Yes, good morning.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 3Proposed2:41:43

My question is in regards to the height of the tower, how has that arrived at? Is there topographical, geographical concerns that dictates the height?

PresenterJerry AmbroseAPC TowersProposedself-stated2:41:51

There's a ton of different things. Yeah, all those combined. So T-Mobile has what we call a significant gap in coverage, a hole in their network And they determine the height that's needed to close that significant gap in coverage. Sometimes it's 50 feet, sometimes it's I have a project in Slough County right now. It's 120 feet. So it's contingent on a bunch of factors. But the idea is to close that gap in coverage. And in this case, although it's 68 feet and the antennas are a little bit lower than that, also remember the antennas The antennas are eight feet high, so they're tall antennas. So the center or whatever is going to be lower than the 68 feet. COMMISSIONER MIKE BOYLE Thank you. Commissioner Park?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed2:42:44

COMMISSIONER PJ MORGAN

2:42 – 2:4810 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed2:42:48

I'm going to ask some questions about location, Mr. Ambrose. Normally I'll see a site study and it will address other alternatives and why they work or don't work.

PresenterJerry AmbroseAPC TowersProposedself-stated2:43:04

Yeah, that's in the staff

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed2:43:05

report. And it's in the electromagnetic reports. It is more abbreviated than I'm used to seeing but at least it has that. And I noticed that all of those addresses as far as I could determine were to the west of Highway 154 They were basically all similar properties in terms of zoning because in that what we call the heart of the valley, it's mostly Ag 1. There's maybe one or two Ag 2 parcels but it's all Ag 1 and they're smaller and that's probably why you got rejected on those sites because people would say well I don't want it next to my house and I've got a house that's on 10 acres or 5 acres.

But I also noticed on the coverage map that a great deal of what would be improved in service is, in fact, on the east side of Highway 154 where the zoning is quite different. It's all Ag-2, much larger parcels, little hillier and it has very few houses in terms of density In answer to the question about the trees, there are other eucalyptus trees. They're more on the east side of 154 than the west side.

There tend to be in the huge right-of-way that Caltrans has or next to it. Okay? So more or less lining the highway. And but once you get into the interior of the valley, it's of course dominated by oak trees. And as Mr. Ambrose testified, some of the really large ones, the Valley Oaks can hit 50 feet high, but they don't reach the heights of the eucalyptus. So I believe I was not measuring them with a tape, but that there are trees of this magnitude that are eucalyptus, but they're not where this is. Thank you.

An antenna on the east side would affect the same coverage area per your maps and could be located on a hill instead of down in a ravine, and could be grouped with large trees of the nature of this one. Why didn't you look at alternative sites on that east side on those larger parcels?

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PresenterJerry AmbroseAPC TowersProposedself-stated2:46:05

The way you present that is like a simple looking at the map and say put it here, put it there. But it's way more complicated than that. It's an engineering design. This tower also has to communicate with existing towers that are also on the map. You also have density of population needs, so this side of the highway is a lot more dense. And you probably know T-Mobile has a direct to home internet service which means they're going to need to be close to where the residences are So if we followed that, if that were to go let's go look on the other side of the highway well then we're gonna need a second tower on the west side of the highway then probably.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed2:46:53

You know I don't know I'm just speculating like I think you are because yeah no I know it's good if it's on the east side it's going to be on a hill so you'll have an advantage in coverage that way and it's only a few hundred yards away. It's just not

PresenterJerry AmbroseAPC TowersProposedself-stated2:47:06

that simple. I'm not an engineer but it's just not that simple We can't have counties or cities dictating where towers should go. It's an engineered

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed2:47:19

determination. I think that we more or less have to approve a site somewhere, that's just how these things work out and I've been doing this for several years but we have some latitude on just where they are and what they look like I can look at the people in the audience, I can look at the letters and say folks we're going to have to approve one somewhere. That's just how it's gonna work but but I got to do my job and ask on their behalf why we couldn't revise the height or the location or whatever. And I'm familiar with a APC easement in property that has On what was the Branchino Ranch on Foxson and 154, which has a large congregation of co-located towers.

So I get all that stuff but, but I got to ask these questions and and I've got to determine I've got to make a finding that there's compatibility in the neighborhood and if no one's even asked whether one of these other sites is suitable it's hard for me to make that finding so that's why I

PresenterJerry AmbroseAPC TowersProposedself-stated2:48:30

asked.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed2:48:31

Okay I appreciate your candor and thank you.

PresenterJerry AmbroseAPC TowersProposedself-stated2:48:36

Also just a quick comment on that so It's

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2:48 – 2:5529 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed2:48:59

It is, and that's why I think if we go to the west and we stay in the heart of the valley with all five acre and ten acre zoning you're gonna get the same answer. And if we move it there there's going to be people that object but that's why I think we should look on the east side and I think that's within latitude what we can do where they're much larger parcels. Yeah again our direction where they would be hidden by trees and hills and I would think your engineers would love the fact that there are hills there But this is not for us to have a dialogue. It's an official hearing, so let's proceed.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed2:49:31

OK we're going to move on to Commissioner Ford's questions and then I also have a few questions. Sure.

CommentPARK YouProposed2:49:36

Thanks. I just want to maybe you addressed it but if once again you could say why it has to be 68 feet? I'm concerned about the height.

PresenterJerry AmbroseAPC TowersProposedself-stated2:49:46

So again there are thousands of towers right everywhere

CommentPARK YouProposed2:49:50

Yes, I understand. But not in that area and not that high?

PresenterJerry AmbroseAPC TowersProposedself-stated2:49:53

It's all dictated by the gap in coverage, geography, trees, structures, hills. A number of different factors go into what the height is. There's towers that are 50 feet. There's towers that are 45 feet. I mentioned I have one in Napomo now it's 120 feet based on the specifics of the given area. I mean, there are cell sites on top of this roof. And I'm guessing that's 45 feet something like that high?

So it's a very case-by-case project specific location contingent. And the evidence for that is the propagation maps that show how the signal propagates. If we had a lower height you would see that the gap in coverage would not be filled. You would still have this periphery of basically no coverage zone. And there's no point in building a tower or leaving more gaps in coverage within that area, so. MARY ANN

CommentPARK YouProposed2:50:54

BORGESON Well, there's still even when it goes in, there'll be some zones that are not covered, right?

PresenterJerry AmbroseAPC TowersProposedself-stated2:51:04

I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

CommentPARK YouProposed2:51:05

The red service area will not still meet the needs of every area

PresenterJerry AmbroseAPC TowersProposedself-stated2:51:14

Now the way technology works today, you know your coverage areas about a mile and a quarter mile and a half. That's just with the new technology everything has to be more dense more closer. You can't just put one tower on a hill and cover you know five miles anymore it doesn't work like that it's very very condensed in terms of the technology and how close the towers need to be to where the people that are being served live and work

CommentPARK YouProposed2:51:42

OK, I just think it would have been interesting to see what a 50-foot tower would have covered.

PresenterJerry AmbroseAPC TowersProposedself-stated2:51:47

We can certainly run propagation map at a lower height and show that to the county or to your commission.

CommentPARK YouProposed2:51:55

Thanks.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed2:51:56

Okay, Mr. Ambrose, I have one comment relative to the 120-foot tree in Napomo. I also know that there are lots of eucalyptus trees of that same height so getting it to blend in with the eucalyptus grove is much easier than the problem we have here in the Santa Ynez Valley because as the pictures had showed us, there aren't a lot of trees around it so it's going to stand out on its own.

I didn't quite understand something you said, so I'm just going to ask you if you could clarify for me. Relative to this location being a T-Mobile site, Verizon and AT&T could also utilize service. Now would they use the same poll or would they

PresenterJerry AmbroseAPC TowersProposedself-stated2:52:38

add

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed2:52:39

additional

PresenterJerry AmbroseAPC TowersProposedself-stated2:52:40

polls? So APC Towers would market this tower if it were approved and built. They would market it to the other carriers, and the idea would be that carriers would join on to this pole.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed2:52:52

OK so the neighbors wouldn't have to worry about you adding two more additional poles on the same piece of property to create a three-pole site,

PresenterJerry AmbroseAPC TowersProposedself-stated2:53:01

would they? Correct yeah then they're going to market this particular tower again it's up to Verizon AT&T if they can make it work for them that they would have to go somewhere else. If you'll notice, our lease area at the bottom of the tower is much larger than you're used to seeing. It's 30 feet by 30 feet and the purpose of that is to allow other carriers equipment within that fenced area.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed2:53:26

OK. Equipment but not additional towers? Correct. Question out of curiosity, have you met with the neighbors by any chance to get any input about what would work or what doesn't work for them? We

PresenterJerry AmbroseAPC TowersProposedself-stated2:53:40

have not met with the neighbors.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed2:53:44

Also, is the owner of the property here or are you just representing him? One of the letters stated that the owner of the property rents out the home, so if they don't live in this area they might not have the same concerns.

PresenterJerry AmbroseAPC TowersProposedself-stated2:54:00

She lives in Santa Ynez but she does not live on the property correct?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed2:54:03

Okay.

PresenterJerry AmbroseAPC TowersProposedself-stated2:54:04

They've owned it for like 150 years some very long time.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed2:54:08

Okay thank you are there any other questions before we open up for public comment? No okay thank you Mr. Ambrose I appreciate it Mr. Villalobos?

UnidentifiedClerk of the BoardProposed · by role2:54:22

Thank you, Mr. Chair. So I have one two four speaker slips and then one request online so if you wanted to speak and you have a slip just make sure it gets up here we'll go to our in-person speakers first the first speaker will be Darren Friedman to be followed by I believe that says Michael McConnell And then Mr. Chair, I think before we start we should just indicate like how much time each speaker will be receiving.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed2:54:56

Each person will receive three minutes to speak.

UnidentifiedClerk of the BoardProposed · by role2:55:01

Okay so Mr. Friedman if you could come to the microphone.

2:55 – 3:015 turns

CommentDarren FriedmanProposedself-stated2:55:08

Good morning thank you My name is Darren Friedman. I live at 1475 Edison Street, which is less than half a mile from the proposed site and I'm here to strongly oppose this case. I'd like to add just for clarification that because these properties are big rectangles The perspective from Calzada or from Edison is not actually accurate because the back property line, the rear property line of both is much closer to where the tower is.

So these are literally in our backyard. I'd specifically like to address the impact on the broader neighborhood, the terrain, the open sight lines and why the visual impact of this tower extends well beyond the properties immediately surrounding the site. I should also say for the record that I do have concerns about long-term RF exposure particularly when these facilities are placed near homes and families But I understand the limitations of the county's authority in that area. And so this meeting is more about the other effects.

One of the defining characteristics of this area is its openness, the terrain and relatively low density of development create long uninterrupted views from across the valley. Many of us including me moved to the valley from LA or other cities expressly for this reason. From my property, I have a direct and open rural sight line towards the proposed site. There simply are not any buildings or any other structures or trees between us that would meaningful screen something of this height That's why I believe the Commission needs to look well beyond the immediate Calzada area when evaluating the visual impact. A 68-foot structure does not stop affecting the landscape at the property line because of the terrain and the open sight lines, its visual footprint potentially extends well beyond to the existing community.

My concern is that the record before you does not adequately demonstrate the broader impact. elevations, topographic sightline analysis or accurate visual simulations like a balloon test that would show what this would actually look like for Madison. I brought a photograph or I sent in a photograph via email of my property looking directly towards the proposed area. What it shows essentially is that what we value about living here open land mature properties mountains and sky period Our community is asking a very fair and serious question as to whether this particular location at this particular height and scale is appropriate, and whether a less intrusive location or design or height have truly been evaluated.

Santa Ynez remains special because we've been careful about what we put into this landscape Once a structure of this scale enters a rural sight line, that change is effectively permanent. And as the gentleman said they will lease this to other companies and this will continue forward. In closing because our agenda item was moved back to the end of the day I've had the opportunity to listen to the Commission carefully consider and deliberate relatively minor changes to properties such as a horse arena, an agricultural setback. We're discussing how the construction of a 60-foot telecommunications tower in our literal backyard will affect us. Let's just keep that into perspective. Thank you.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed2:58:43

Thank you.

UnidentifiedClerk of the BoardProposed · by role2:58:47

Moving on to our next speaker again I believe it says Michael McConnell to be followed by Tom McConnell and then Kirsten Musterer.

CommentMichael McConnellProposedself-stated2:59:05

Good morning, my name is Michael McConnell. My family owns property on Calzada Avenue near the proposed site I want to pick up on a point that Commissioner Martinez mentioned this morning about the Malmuth case or matter. The commissioner discussed the significance of neighboring property owners having been notified and not showing up to oppose or appeal the project.

Our situation is very different. We did show up, we are showing up, we're here. 25 neighboring households are now represented in opposition to the cell tower. We informally polled them yesterday and asked whether they had received direct notice from the county. Only two of those 25 households reported receiving direct county notice. The others learned about this product through neighbors or community outreach, and once they learned what was being proposed, they became engaged and opposed it.

Some are here in person today. Some are participating by Zoom, others who could not attend have submitted their opposition. If the neighbors here today are in opposition of this project would you please stand up? Thank you I'd also note that this item was originally scheduled first on the standard agenda and was moved to the end of this morning. Some neighbors who intended to participate may not have been able to stay or remain for this additional time.

But the important number isn't simply how many people are still in this room. 25 neighboring households are now represented in opposition to this project, and only two of those households reported receiving something from the county. I want to be clear. I'm not alleging that the county failed to comply with its legal noticing requirements. This is an Ag 110 rural area characterized by large parcels.

A 300-foot notification radius therefore reaches remarkably few property owners. That could be a property and a half, and just very few people. And what happened here demonstrates exactly why this distinction matters. Once neighbors beyond the immediate notification area learned of this project, they showed up. So I respectfully ask the commission not to interpret the initial limited response from surrounding residents as community acceptance.

The contrast with the matter you considered earlier today is important. There you discussed how neighbors who were notified and did not show up to oppose the project. Here, once the broader neighboring community learned about this project, we did show up. We are here, we're opposed, and we respectfully ask you to deny this case. Thank you so much.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:01:53

Thank you.

3:01 – 3:078 turns

UnidentifiedClerk of the BoardProposed · by role3:01:57

Our next speaker will be Tom McConnell to be followed by Kirsten Musterer

CommentTom McConnellProposedself-stated3:02:15

Good morning. My name is Tom McConnell, and myself and my family own three properties on Calzada Avenue. We've been there 38 years. It's 1540 Calzada, 1568 Calzada, and 1590 Calzade. We are one property south of the cell tower site, proposed site. But I do realize that what I'm focusing on, my comments today are just the RF emissions that can come from a cell tower like this and ongoing compliance. And I know that I have significant concerns about potential health effects of long-term RF exposure from a telecommunications facility located near homes and families in our community, but I also understand the federal law that substantially limits what this commission can consider regarding the environmental effects of RF emissions. when a wireless facility complies with the FCC standards.

But that raises an important, very practical question. Who verifies if the facility actually complies after it's built and operating? If FCC compliance is the legal line that limits this commission's consideration of RF concerns, then actual compliance should not simply be presumed It should be independently measured and continually enforceable. There's an important distinction between predicted compliance before a construction and measured compliance afterwards. Before a facility exists, compliance necessarily relies on engineering calculations and assumptions about antennas equipment power levels and operating conditions. Once the facility is actually operating however actual RF level levels can be measured and Santa Barbara County's own wireless regulations provide mechanisms for doing exactly that The County Ordinance allows permit conditions requiring RF field testing after installation by a qualified professional acceptable to the county and independent of the permittee.

It also provides for continued compliance testing and enforcement if applicable standards are exceeded. That is particularly important here because this facility has also contemplated for future co-location. The equipment and operating configuration may therefore change during the life of this facility. Compliance should be an ongoing obligation, not simply a calculation made when the project is approved."

So if this commission ultimately approves this project, which I hope you do not, I respectfully request that you impose the strongest permissible RF compliance conditions available under the County Ordinance. Specifically, I ask for independent post-installation RF field testing once the facility is operational, periodic independent compliance testing at an interval established by the county, additional testing following applicable equipment power antenna or co-location changes And where appropriate, actual measurements in nearby inhabited areas so that compliance reflects what neighboring residents are actually exposed to not merely what was predicted on paper. And if the actual measurements demonstrate that the facility exceeds applicable federal RF standards, the county's enforcement provision should be used including cessation of commercial operation until the facility is brought back into compliance I want to be clear about what I'm asking.

I'm not asking this commission to resolve the larger scientific debate surrounding long-term RF exposure. I am asking for something much more straightforward. If compliance with FCC limits is the standard upon which this facility is allowed to operate, then verify that compliance after it begins operating and continue verifying it as facility changes over time. If the project is denied, this issue becomes moot and a lot of my neighbors will be very happy.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:06:25

Mr. McConnell we're going to have to ask you to wrap it up please.

CommentTom McConnellProposedself-stated3:06:28

Okay if you approve it please make independent measurements in continuing RF compliance explicit with enforceable conditions of that approval. Thank you very

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:06:37

much.

UnidentifiedClerk of the BoardProposed · by role3:06:44

So we have three additional speakers in-house and then we'll go to our online speaker. Our next speaker is Kirsten Musterer, to be followed by Jim Rademacher I believe that is and then Matt McKinney and then we will move on to our online speaker after that

CommentKirsten MustererProposed3:07:01

Good morning, my name is Kirsten. I live at 1627 Calzada Avenue and we purchased our home there 15 years ago and we plan on that being our forever home. I am opposed to this cell tower. I'm worried about our property values going down and I'm also worried about the health of the long term. Children absorb higher rates of cell tower radiation and are biologically more vulnerable to the RF radiation emitted by cell towers, a fact that has been long acknowledged by medical authorities.

And I have children and I'm concerned about their health. Thank you.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:07:43

Thank you.

3:07 – 3:1822 turns

UnidentifiedClerk of the BoardProposed · by role3:07:48

Jim Rademacher to be followed by Matt McKinney.

CommentCulver CityProposed · by introduction3:08:00

Thank you for your time. I, too, my residence 1637 Calzada was not provided with notice. We share an easement that follows clearly within the purview and scope other neighbors were provided with notice. We haven't had an adequate opportunity to investigate all of this. We ask for additional time in that regard. As far as the aesthetics of the project are concerned, they're not palatable to myself nor my neighbors.

We are concerned about environmental impacts, ecological, geographic, so on and so forth. And we don't feel that a sufficient amount of studies have been performed, nor have they been provided to us to date due to the defective notice provided at this matter. So I have nothing further at this time.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:08:57

Thank you.

PresenterMatt McKinneymy mom but we moved to the San Ynez Valley 32 years ago and we speciProposedself-stated3:09:11

How you doing? My name is Matt McKinney and a little taller, adjust this here. My mother Leanne McKinney and I or I'm representing my mom but we moved to the San Ynez Valley 32 years ago and we specifically moved from Woodland Hills to escape Los Angeles Many of the commercial and just big city life and look and feel. And Santa Ynez Valley has been such an incredible place to move to that is so special to us, and we didn't know about this as well if it wasn't for Michael McConnell I wouldn't have known And my mom and I are very opposed to the cell tower going in from a natural scenic beauty standpoint, and also the EMF concern to our health. And yeah, we are strongly opposed. Thank you very much.

Thank you.

UnidentifiedClerk of the BoardProposed · by role3:10:19

And now we go to our online speaker, Kelly McConnell. I'm calling out to unmute yourself.

CommentKirsten MustererProposed · by introduction3:10:32

Can you hear me?

UnidentifiedClerk of the BoardProposed · by role3:10:33

You're a little light.

CommentKirsten MustererProposed · by introduction3:10:36

Can you hear me better now?

UnidentifiedClerk of the BoardProposed · by role3:10:38

Can you get a little bit closer to your mic, please?

CommentKirsten MustererProposed · by introduction3:10:40

Sure. Let me try a

UnidentifiedClerk of the BoardProposed · by role3:10:42

headset just one second.

CommentKirsten MustererProposed · by introduction3:10:53

Is that any better?

UnidentifiedClerk of the BoardProposed · by role3:10:54

Much better.

CommentKirsten MustererProposed · by introduction3:10:54

Okay. My name is Kelly McConnell. My family owns three properties on Calzada Avenue immediately south of this project. I submitted extensive written comments and photographs, so I'm just going to focus on what we've learned in this hearing today. Um, I think today's testimony has actually raised more questions about whether the required compatibility finding can be made not fewer. We learned from the applicant that This faux eucalyptus would be 68 ft tall, approximately 18 ft taller than the very trees it is supposedly intended to blend with.

We also heard Commissioner Park identify an entirely different area east of Highway 154 with larger parcels, different topography, fewer residences and substantial eucalyptus trees that apparently was not evaluated in the applicant's alternative analysis. Commissioner Park made the issue very clear if potentially suitable alternatives haven't even been evaluated. How can you make the required finding that this location is compatible?

We learned something else today that I think deserves careful consideration. The applicant testified that T-Mobile cannot co locate on certain other existing infrastructure because of its exclusive contractual relationship with APC Towers. I respectfully ask you to distinguish between an alternative that is technically infeasible and an alternative that wasn't pursued because of a private contractual or leasing restriction.

Those are not the same thing. Then there's the fundamental question of height. Commissioner Ford asked what coverage a lower-height tower would provide. The applicant told us that they can run a propagation map at a lower height and provide it to this commission. My question is very simple, why wasn't that done before asking you to approve 68 feet? If 50 feet won't work, show us. If 60 feet won't work, show us. But please don't assume that 68 feet is necessary when the applicant has acknowledged today that the comparative evidence can actually be produced. And finally we don't need to speculate about what the 68 feet will actually look like in this landscape.

Put a balloon crane mounted marker or equivalent full height demonstration at the actual proposed location. I spoke directly with property owner and twig this week, we had a very respectful conversation and she told me she would support a balloon test herself. And in fact said she would communicate that to Mr Ambrose think about that for a moment the neighbors want to see it. The property owners willing to do it, and multiple commissioners today have expressed concern about If the applicant simulations accurately show that the 68 foot structure will blend in the landscape, a full height demonstration should confirm them. If it doesn't we all deserve to know that before not after and especially before you make a decision of permanent land use decision I respectfully ask you to deny case 25 CUP 00023.

If you're not prepared to deny it today, then please continue this matter rather than approve it. There's no reason to guess when the unanswered questions identified in this very hearing can be answered. Run the lower height propagation analysis. Evaluate the additional alternatives Commissioner Park identified and show us what 68 feet actually looks like at this location. Then make your decision on a complete record We are all opposed. The fact that we have 25 landowners who are vehemently opposed to this should speak volumes.

Thank you.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:14:25

Thank you. So I would like to ask staff if there's any rebuttals. Did we miss you? Okay, well please go ahead and come up to the microphone so that everybody can hear you. Thank you. I have no opposition to giving you three minutes to speak, so thank you.

CommentElizabeth McGovernProposedself-stated3:15:03

My name is Elizabeth McGovern. I live at 1680 Calzada, which is on slide nine. I believe it's basically that photo was taken from Calzada facing my house and the installation will be right next to my house because my house is at the end of my property, the same location that tower is going to be put on. So I want to address oh I want to address property devaluation for all of those around us in this cell tower zone.

I work in a family business, I'm in real estate and I understand about enhancing property values and diminishing property values. And if you put a 68 foot tall telecommunications tower right there it is going to diminish my property greatly. There's a real question of buyer perception the fear of what that tower will do property desirability and marketability. And when a property is listed, it falls under California's broader disclosure law.

It states sellers must disclose known facts that materially affect the value or desirability of the property. It further states in regards to a tower if it is clearly visible from the home close to the home affects the view creates equipment or generator noise. Those are four questions that I believe, I will have to say yes to that and I will have to disclose that when I sell my property.

If I put my property on the marker potential buyers will ask what are the emissions? How much radio frequency RFs can a body sustain? We have the Federal Communications Board mandating what's acceptable, but they do have a cap on those emissions. So this will lead me to believe that there are negative effects and the Commission believes this and that's why they put a cap on these emissions.

Next I ask how many of you in this room would be willing to purchase a house right next to a 68-foot tall eucalyptus tree that's camouflaging a telecommunications tower. I wouldn't, I wouldn't subject my children to it or my family so that's going to affect my sale price. It's going to affect the purchase pool. I spoke to a broker he said you can look at 2% to 20% reduction in purchase price when you are next to a tower. He said that percentage is based off of the response to those four questions.

So I understand T-Mobile needs to put a tower in, but I request that they put it into an area that is more commercial. I think you have a great idea. Put it on the other side of the 154 where the properties are bigger. You have numerous people around there. That's all I need. Thank you so much for your time.

UnidentifiedClerk of the BoardProposed · by role3:18:03

And so can I please ask the speaker to submit a speaker slip before you leave today?

CommentElizabeth McGovernProposedself-stated3:18:08

Sorry.

UnidentifiedClerk of the BoardProposed · by role3:18:08

Could you please fill out and submit a speaker slip before you leave today?

CommentElizabeth McGovernProposedself-stated3:18:12

Yes.

UnidentifiedClerk of the BoardProposed · by role3:18:13

Thank you. And I believe that is our last speaker.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:18:18

OK, thank you very much to all of the speakers. I'd like to ask if there's a rebuttal from the county staff

3:18 – 3:238 turns

CommentFrancisco Vargas County PlannerProposedself-stated3:18:28

I will try to provide a brief response to most of the comments that we received. The notices. So we do send out notices at two different stages of these types of projects, including a completeness notice that was sent out to neighbors within 300 feet back in June of this year and then we also send a follow up notice prior to hearing so that's also sent out to neighbors within 300 feet and we included both the occupants and the owners of each property within 300 feet As far as the question about how a fake eucalyptus tree is compatible and the aesthetics of it, the short answer is the county does not have specific design standards for faux towers.

Therefore compatibility is very subjective and up to discretion by the commissioners today. In this particular case staff considered the rural setting and other large trees in the general area as a basis for compatibility And there was a lot of questions about the RF report. So, the short answer is that RF reports are prepared by third party consultant They're required for all telecom projects.

Upon receipt of those, you know we review them to make sure to confirm what sort of mitigations or recommendations are being recommended by that third party. We do also condition projects such as this telecom project to condition compliance so there is regular monitoring and site visits from our county staff Making sure that equipment is running appropriately. It still looks, you know the way we approved it So that's you know for the life of the project that continues There was a question about you know private views as you may be aware We don't protect private views. We evaluate public views such as those that I showed on my slides From Calzad Avenue Highway 154 etc And I believe that, I try to cover everything. Let me know if you have any other questions.

CommentK. ApplicantProposed · by introduction3:20:46

Thank you. Commissioners, I just want to add one more thing. Thank you Francisco. That's good. To add on to what he said about no design standards, the department leans on the BARs when we do not have design standards. So this is a project that did go to the BAR. I believe that they recommended the faux design and so that's how this got to where it is. I just wanted to add that information.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:21:11

Thank you. I do have one question relative to the 300 feet. Looking at the size of the properties around this piece of property, it may very well just have been that the neighbors that have property lines that touch this property might have been the only ones notified in the case when we're dealing with much more rural areas. Do we have an allowable to go outside of the 300 feet?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 7Proposed3:21:40

Chair Guy, to clarify we looked at how many notices were sent out for this and there were 24 different properties that were within the buffer area. And as Francisco mentioned two separate notices were mailed for each of those 24 sites one to the site itself so that's for the occupant and one to the mailing address and that's a mailing address that we have from the county assessor records The county can send out additional notices that are for a larger buffer area. In this case, we did also email notice as a courtesy to interested parties who had reached out to us.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:22:22

Well thank you 24 is greater than what I had understood so thank you for that. Also was there a sign put out at the property showing that there was something that was going to happen? I mean drivers by would they have seen a sign

CommentFrancisco Vargas County PlannerProposedself-stated3:22:38

Yes, there is signage and it's required to stay up during the review process. So it should still be up today.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:22:46

Okay thank you I appreciate that. Any questions from the commissioners? Commissioner Eric Otter.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 2Proposed3:22:57

Thank you a couple of questions for staff. You mentioned that the county We'll on occasion monitor compliance for cell phone towers or other installations. So first let me ask county council, do the federal regulations allow a local jurisdiction to monitor and then enforce federal standards for RF propagation?

3:23 – 3:2922 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed3:23:31

Chair Guy, Commissioner Mara Conner. To the extent that our requirements are consistent with the FCC limits, yes I believe we would be able to and that's reflected in the conditions of approval when you review the compliance monitoring condition.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 2Proposed3:23:53

And do we have the follow on question? I'm glad to hear that by the way. But the follow on question is, do we have the equipment Or the contractors available to us to do this kind of compliance monitoring of RF emissions? And have we done it before with other kinds of cell phone towers?

CommentFrancisco Vargas County PlannerProposedself-stated3:24:16

Francisco County Planning here. Yes, our permit compliance staff does have the equipment to go out to the sites and verify compliance.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 2Proposed3:24:26

And the experience in using the equipment obviously.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 7Proposed3:24:29

And I want to add to that, that as you can see in the condition of approval. I'm looking at the condition numbers here. It's condition number 13 it's our standard condition till 08 FCC compliance that the operator is required to provide regular testing results to compliance staff they're also required to provide Testing after everything is installed to confirm that it matches the compliant report that was received prior to decision-maker action.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 2Proposed3:25:06

And what's the frequency of the RF testing after the cell phone tower has been installed and is operational?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 7Proposed3:25:15

I'm going to review the condition here. I'll

CommentFrancisco Vargas County PlannerProposedself-stated3:25:23

interject here. The federal requirements, the reporting is required at least every five years unless it's deemed necessary to be more, I guess sooner by permit compliance staff. But it's a minimum of five years, every five years.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 2Proposed3:25:45

That's the federal standard? Does our condition impose a frequency requirement? Does it say anything about how often there will be a test of RF emissions?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 7Proposed3:25:58

Yes, the condition does. I just had it here every five years following the initial installation verification.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 2Proposed3:26:05

OK. If we wanted to make that every three years, could we do it?

CommentK. ApplicantProposed · by introduction3:26:21

Commissioner, we'd have to check and see if there's any limit on the federal level to doing that. OK. All right.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 2Proposed3:26:29

And then I want to switch subjects to the view impacts of the project. And I think staff touched on this when you said that the county looks at the view impacts from public property not private property. Did I understand that correctly?

CommentFrancisco Vargas County PlannerProposedself-stated3:26:52

Commissioner Conner to the chair. Yes, that is our standard we evaluate public views view sheds

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 2Proposed3:26:59

and the county's Standards the land use standards require that the county or the Commission look at the impacts from public property streets highways That sort of thing. Is that right?

CommentFrancisco Vargas County PlannerProposedself-stated3:27:12

That's correct

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 2Proposed3:27:14

Okay, the fact that a tower might have an impact on private property And one of our speakers spoke about having a house on a nearby property and was worried about the impact of the view from her house. Is that something that the county can consider in deciding whether or not this is an appropriate project?

CommentK. ApplicantProposed · by introduction3:27:37

Yeah. Commissioners, I will say this too. This is a CUP and you have broad discretion in terms of CUP compatibility findings. In terms of specific standards for private views we do not have that but you do have the ability to look at the CUP findings and really take the project as a whole comments everything with the CUP incompatibility and your broad discretion

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 2Proposed3:28:07

Okay, thank

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:28:08

you. Commissioner Park.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:28:18

So in other words if we're applying some of our county viewshed policies or sign ordinances and all the different things where we look to what we can see from the public road We wouldn't discuss public, private views. But if we're applying the broad discretion we have to determine whether this is compatible with the neighborhood and I'm oversimplifying what finding 2.185 says or 115 whatever it is, we can in fact include those and so many other things as long as we're acting in good faith correct?

CommentK. ApplicantProposed · by introduction3:28:58

Commissioners I believe so I mean it's always helpful to provide supporting evidence for the findings you know why you are making that connection to compatibility but I believe so yeah

3:29 – 3:4023 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:29:12

okay I was wondering if we could go Can we go back to slide 3 and get off slide 10 for just a second? This is based upon one of the comments that one of the speakers had. Is there a chance to blow that up, because the location of homes and the potential for RF frequency transmission, I understand it's concerned with the homeowners. So I'm just trying to understand how close the homes are to this station or what do we call it, a transmission tower One thing that seems odd to me is that some of the neighboring homes are actually closer to the tower than the home that's located on this parcel.

And I'm just trying to get an understanding, again, I wasn't able to drive all the way, Mr. Ambrose, I wasn't able to drive all the way in order to see the location because I hadn't received approval at the time I did site visit but I'm just trying to understand there's a lot of comments about radio frequencies, and there's a lot of comments about the views and so forth. And I'm just trying to get a better understanding of that. And then there was one comment that was in one of the letters that I felt was worthy that I wrote it down and it said, The rural character is not incidental to this neighborhood. It's one of the primary reasons that people choose to live here. Lots of comments but that was the one that really struck me relative to the location of the homes and the tower?

CommentFrancisco Vargas County PlannerProposedself-stated3:30:53

Chairperson

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:30:54

Guy. Do you know, do you know the distance of the homes on the adjacent properties as well as the home on the property? The distance from the tower to those homes?

CommentFrancisco Vargas County PlannerProposedself-stated3:31:11

Chairperson Guy, I didn't measure every single residence but the closest residence according to our records is approximately 450 feet to the northeast. So i don't have a... I don't know that

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:31:23

I have a... You said 450 feet? 450 feet correct.

CommentFrancisco Vargas County PlannerProposedself-stated3:31:33

Yeah approximately where that cursor is

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:31:35

OK, I don't have any further questions. Any of the other commissioners? Any questions or comments? Commissioner Martinez.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 3Proposed3:31:43

My question is, OK, CUP is because this is not actually zoned for South Tower. Am I thinking right here?

CommentK. ApplicantProposed · by introduction3:31:55

Commissioner Martinez, I wouldn't quite word it that way. It's a permittable use in the zone but it's conditionally permitted And what kind of zones would you not need a CUP? I believe towers this tall need a CUP in every zone. Okay, so no matter where it goes it's gonna have to come before

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 3Proposed3:32:14

us for a CUP. Correct. Thank You

UnidentifiedClerk of the BoardProposed · by role3:32:24

So I believe that we at some point should give Mr. Ambrose rebuttal time and we still have the unresolved issues of the two letters

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:32:33

Okay, let's start off with Mr. Ambrose with your rebuttal time.

PresenterJerry AmbroseAPC TowersProposedself-stated3:32:43

Good morning again I didn't hear any or any of the new issues that Folks spoke about a staff address pretty well, so I don't really have anything to add to what staff has provided your commission. Now in regard to Chairman, your last comment about the location of the tower in relation to homes, et cetera, please remember that the county recommends minimizing visual impacts from public roads.

So in this case, just the logical solution is going to be as far back off the public road as possible. So that's so the tower could work right at the front of the property in the middle of the property. It could function anywhere on the property but again we're following county guidance trying to keep it off the public road as far as possible. So again that's the reason it's set at the back of the property

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:33:41

OK, thank you. The reason for my question was RF emissions relative to residents versus transients. These residents will be living near those towers so I was just trying to understand how they would be impacted. So I understand what you're saying relative to visual impact but I think in much greater than visual impact.

PresenterJerry AmbroseAPC TowersProposedself-stated3:34:02

Well, I just want to remind the commission that I think Francisco presented it. We did do an RF study and the worst case scenario which is standing right below the tower is 45.6% of the FCC standard. The further you move away from the tower, that just goes down. So we're already at least 50% below the FCC standard right under the tower. So if you're expressing a concern about, you know, exposure to RF there's no issue just based on the evidence that's provided and also the FCC standards.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:34:40

Yeah actually I was just trying to understand the concern from the speaker's point of

PresenterJerry AmbroseAPC TowersProposedself-stated3:34:43

view. Oh okay. Okay understood. No I understand the perception. I understand that part of it.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:34:49

Okay any questions? No okay thank you Mr. Ambrose Okay, Mr. Villalobos we'd like to go back to the emails that were received after the cutoff.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:35:12

You know I'd like to address them in deliberations because like I said I think they may be mooted and it would be an undue use of time to belabor that point. I don't have any

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:35:25

objections to that. Any other commissioners? If that's the case then we'll go to deliberations.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:35:30

Okay. May I speak first?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:35:34

Commissioner Park, would you please speak

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:35:35

first? I've thought about this a lot and have been here before. You might think that we lived on cannabis cases but in fact we actually had more phone cases than cannabis cases over the years and most of the time they just simply get approved. But sometimes neighbors bring things up and we have to spend some time digging into it. And this is one of those, and that's where we get these tension between what's preempted by federal government on RF but what can we look at? And we can in fact look at because it's a CUP, we have very broad discretion to look such things as compatibility with the neighborhood and there's a specific finding on it, and it appears in every single finding.

I would like to make a motion and then I would like to explain why making that motion. And that motion is not a motion for approval because right now I can't do what former Commissioner Cooney taught me to do and that is focus on the findings and decide whether I can make those findings And I can't make the finding that's part of every CUP. In fact, it's what makes a CUP a CUP and that is the compatibility finding. We just don't have the information.

I don't want to make the motion to deny the project because after seeing so many of these over the years with the constraints we have with the federal government and such There's going to be approval of some site somewhere. That's just what has to happen. So if I told all the folks out there, I can make a motion to deny this and that's going to kill the project, I would be lying too.

Honestly, what's going to happen is we should do what we can to make it the best project possible for the whole neighborhood but realize we have to attend to that. And that's why my motion is a motion to continue this matter to the next available hearing that staff can suggest for us and during that time I want to afford Mr. Ambrose and APC the opportunity to explore alternate sites and go beyond what you've looked at already, which we listed by addresses, and look on the east side of 154.

Why would you do that? Because your own service map shows that sites within 154 are within that same service area and would have similar coverage. If we look at topography, sites on the other side of 154 are elevated compared to the project site which is more or less in a hole. I have not been on the project site. I've been to the very western and the end adjacent to the project site of the Cheney property, you know, the Cheney property. And it's that it's it's the next one to the right of that. And I've seen the Holman property. I've seen others.

Yes, there are substantial improvements that are much closer to this site than the house on the Tuig property is. In fact, the Chene property has got things right near there. The distance from the antenna to the Chaney property is 54 feet for And they do not have the problem of being near people's homes or on small parcels. They're on much bigger parcels where there are all sorts of other odd things and you can even see from this picture, it's tree lined especially on the east side and many of those trees are very tall eucalyptus trees and some are sitting on hills and it seems much more appropriate to site over there where it would not bother people and would give us similar coverage I Shumash Triangle, and there are sites at a very large one that APC has an easement for at the corner of Fox and 154 so they know the area they can explore in between.

And we will answer any other questions that people can think of. One that I have is if 68 feet seems really tall because it is where that is There are two things that we

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3:41 – 3:5010 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 4Proposed3:41:09

need to address because there's two motions on the floor. There's a motion about the letters that was tabled by Commissioner Park, and now there's another motion that we can refine that's a continuance motion.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:41:20

Well in the continuance motion moots the other motion because we don't need those letters today. Those letters can be submitted they've already been submitted and they'll be in time for the next hearing So we just don't need to...

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 4Proposed3:41:35

Just to rephrase that, I'm hearing that the motion maker is withdrawing that motion on those letters because otherwise it was tabled. It is mute by continuing but...

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:41:48

Conditional on the passage of the motion to continue the matter because I don't want to have that motion fail and then my other motion has been withdrawn So that's why I've now stated for the third time, I want to consider it after the motion I bring up in deliberations.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 4Proposed3:42:08

Okay so we'll table that discussion further. Chair, the other items to consider on the motion for continuance is that this particular project is mandated to be heard in a certain period of time which is commonly referred as a shot clock. That expires on October 13th so if it isn't heard by October 13 their decision made then it's automatically approved. So we would need to ask the applicant if he's willing to consider a Later in this year, but we need to hear from the applicant if that's even feasible to come back with information. That is Being requested so if we could take a short break So you get that information? We can come back and address the motion

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UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:43:10

Is it possible to take a short break and have us remain here so that we don't have to hurt everybody back together again Chair and commissioners that is correct Okay

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:43:20

And I would certainly favor that as part of my motion because, you know if the shot clock applies and we can't possibly have a hearing before October 13th then we're forced to vote to approve or deny the matter today in the applicant risk denial.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:43:40

Okay let's go ahead and take that short break so that the applicant can speak with staff thank you Please everybody else if you can stay close by. Okay, thank you. OK, we're returning back from our short break. Mr. Wilson?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 4Proposed3:50:05

Chair members of the Commission, we've met with staff and the applicant and he's willing to continue this to December 9th. So for the motion maker it would be to continue this item to December 9th to give him enough time to prepare the required studies and then come back on the 9th and present that to the commission but we do want to invite the applicant to come forward and get that on the record for him to say that he's agreeing to continue it to the ninth

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:50:35

OK. Applicant, please come forward so we can get that on the record.

3:50 – 3:5521 turns

PresenterJerry AmbroseAPC TowersProposedself-stated3:50:43

Yes, we're in agreement.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:50:45

Thank you, Mr. Ambrose. We appreciate it.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 2Proposed3:50:48

Mr.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:50:48

Chair? Commissioner Mary Connor.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 2Proposed3:50:52

While the applicant is standing at the microphone, it may help to answer both the commission's questions and the neighbors' questions if there were an independent analysis of the expected RF emissions from this facility in connection with any nearby residences. And when I say independent, I mean a consultant selected by county staff and reporting to county staff. But then, of course, the applicant would pay for that additional study.

And my question first of all to staff is, is that something that you would undertake and support. And if the answer there is yes, is that something that the applicant would be willing to pay for as part of the work that's being done between now and December 9th?

PresenterJerry AmbroseAPC TowersProposedself-stated3:51:45

Is your question we would run a report essentially exposure levels at House A, B, and C, that kind of a report?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 2Proposed3:51:55

Correct. Sure. OK. I would add that, too, as a friendly amendment to the motion to continue this matter. Assuming there's a motion on the floor. Is there a motion on the floor? Yes. Yes. We rely on staff to give us specifics. I would ask the maker of the motion if he agrees with my friendly amendment.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 4Proposed3:52:22

So Chair and Commissioners, we think staff has some comments and concerns about that condition. Okay so we're not in alignment with that addition all right so we don't know if we could actually implement that, so we would say that wouldn't be something that we'd want to entertain at this moment without doing a further research analysis on what you're asking

UnidentifiedClerk of the BoardProposed · by role3:52:46

because

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 4Proposed3:52:50

According to what's being reported by staff is that we're having a difficult time getting the peer reviewers to take on that liability to do that. Currently, my understanding is that the applicant does submit the RF studies to the county and then we have them peer reviewed.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 2Proposed3:53:04

Oh OK. The study is peer reviewed by an independent expert to determine whether or not the study is reliable? Is that what we do?

CommentK. ApplicantProposed · by introduction3:53:14

Commissioners, we are having trouble finding someone to peer review So I don't think staff has any issues with you asking for them to do the report. Whether we have the ability to find someone to peer review it in the time frame, we can try. We can try again, reach out to some different people but I think due to a lot of the legal issues around wireless and federal laws there's been a reluctance of people to take that on so just heads up but certainly okay to ask for it.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 2Proposed3:53:49

For the. OK, so maybe my friendly amendment is to try to do this without it necessarily being a condition of this continuance.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:54:04

You know, it fits right in and I'll tell you why. I've done this enough times to know that I should keep my motions pretty simple and so I think the motion here simply is to continue it to this next date which we now hear is December 9th to explore alternatives and that can take many manifestations, alternatives and what you've asked for is part of that and now that the applicant has heard Express your own interest in that. I'm sure that they will pay attention to that during this hiatus. CLARE DUDA

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 2Proposed3:54:39

OK, I'm happy with that.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:54:44

CHRIS RODGERS Thank you. OK, Commissioner Martinez?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 3Proposed3:54:47

Oh, I didn't know my mic was on. Sorry about that.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:54:50

OK. I don't know if this is the proper way to do it, but along with that continuance, I would also like to see as one of the residents recommended a height test at that location, putting something up in the air at 68 feet high so that there's a better representation when we look from the private properties as well as public properties. Is there an opportunity to do something along those lines?

CommentCulver CityProposed · by introduction3:55:19

Sure.

CommentK. ApplicantProposed · by introduction3:55:22

Commissioner, is it like story polls? Is that what you're asking maybe?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:55:26

His story poll, the recommendations were a balloon, a crane, a boom. Something so that we can actually see how high 68 feet is from public property as well as from the private property.

3:55 – 3:588 turns

CommentK. ApplicantProposed · by introduction3:55:44

We will work with the applicant to try and figure something out.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:55:48

Okay thank

CommentPARK YouProposed3:55:48

you.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:55:52

Commissioner Ford?

CommentPARK YouProposed3:55:54

Thank you. Well, I would like to second the motion but first I just wanted to say a couple of things. I want to thank Mr. Vargas because he really helped me understand this issue, and you walked me through it. But I am also just as grateful if not more to the community that showed up and wrote to us and spoke. The comments were considered. They were thoughtful. They were measured. And they might be boiling and furious inside, but they were so compelling that I do think we need to respond And validate those concerns. So my second would be in the interest of compatibility, one of the things that our commission can address. So I'll second it. CHRIS

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:56:38

JERRAMSKIEWICZ So we have a first and second. Any other discussion before we vote? Commissioner Martinez.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 3Proposed3:56:46

I would just say this for the sake of avoiding future dispute. If there is going to be such a thing, such as a balloon out there to provide for the observation of the height and what it would look like, I would hope that we on the commission would be informed of the date and time that that would happen. Because if that happens and it's just based on photos, we all know what photos can do. I can zoom in zoom out make it whatever I want to make it bigger or smaller.

If that happens, I would say and I'm looking forward to seeing just the technical coverage from 40 feet to 50 feet. I think somebody even said that and say show me if you show them That would be really helpful to me. And I'm supportive of the continuance for it to allow these answers, to get these questions answered. Thank you.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:57:43

Commissioner Ford did you have any? Oh no sorry. OK. So we've got a first and a second so we're ready to vote. Do we do a roll call or can we just do individual votes for this? OK. So we're going to do individual votes all in favor. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? None. OK, the continuance will proceed. Thank you all. Aye.