UnGovr Transcript
iHow this transcript is madeUnGovr transcribes the official recording with automated speech-to-text, separates speakers by voice, and matches voices to the seated roster. Names and attributions are AI estimates and may contain errors.Verify any quote yourself: click anywhere in the transcript and the official video jumps to that exact moment, so you can check any quote against the recording.0:00 – 0:0511 turns
Will the clerk please take roll?
Good evening. Council Member Barrett,
present.
Council Member Castro, present. Council Member Delgado, present. Council Member Means,
present
Mayor Innegren,
present Next item is 4a introduction of new employee Cody Hosking recreation coordinator in the city manager's office. Will Cody please join me in front of the podium or for the diet
Got it.
Today we welcome Cody Hosking, who has joined the City of Moorpark as our newest recreation coordinator at Arroyo Vista Recreation Center. Cody has nearly a decade of experience in after-school club recreation successfully fostering youth and helping to positively impact the Conejo Valley and Simi Valley communities where he's worked. Cody comes from us from the Boys & Girls Club of Moorpark and Simi Valley where he led his team delivering impactful programming to multiple schools Parks and Recreation programs have an influential impact on him while growing up and inspired him to pursue a career helping our community. In his spare time, Cody enjoys working on and restoring classic vehicles, competing in Spartan obstacle courses, 3D printing useful household items, and traveling.
His most recent adventure included a week in Northern California exploring the coastal redwoods. Please join us in welcoming Cody to the city. We're happy to have him on our recreation team.
Good evening. Thank you. Just wanted to take a moment thank you for the opportunity really looking forward and excited to be working for the city of Moorpark as the new recreation coordinator Wow, I really forgot what I was going to say. It wasn't much. There's not even a full crowd but really excited looking forward to serving the community being able to provide impactful programming for the city, the children, the community and being able to provide just programs that bring people together so thank you for the opportunity
Next item is 4B, a proclamation declaring May 2026 as Mental Health Awareness Month. Will Community Service Coordinator Maria Teresa Almanza with Aspirinet Behavioral Health please join me at the podium? Sorry, it's this podium. Okay here we go. Proclamation of the Moorpark City Council proclaiming May 2026 as Mental Health Awareness Month, whereas the month of May is dedicated nationwide to recognizing the importance of mental health and promoting awareness of mental health challenges. Whereas Mental Health America's 2026 theme More Good Days Together reflects the mission of helping people have more good days by meeting them where they are, supporting them as a whole people and understanding that good is defined by their unique experience and goals.
Whereas mental health is fundamental to the well-being, resilience and productivity of the residents, families and workforce of every community. Whereas stigma misunderstanding surrounding mental health continues to prevent many individuals from seeking help underscoring need for public education in open dialogue. Whereas millions of individuals and families are impacted by mental health challenges each year, it is important to create a community of compassion support and understanding. Whereas early intervention education in reducing the stigma are effective ways to improve mental health outcomes and access to timely affordable and culturally responsible mental health services are essential to thriving in an equitable, sorry, equitable community.
And whereas the City of Moorpark recognizes the importance of improving mental health of all residents and values partnerships with our community organizations and service providers including AspireNet Whose work supports children, families and individuals through behavioral health services, foster care and community-based programs. Whereas Mental Health Awareness Month offers the opportunity to increase understanding, promote prevention and highlight available resources and reaffirm our commitment to the well being of all residents.
Now, therefore be it resolved the Moorpark City Council does hereby proclaim May 2026 as Mental Health Awareness Month in the city of Moorpark. It encourages all residents to prioritize mental wellness, seek support when needed and extend compassion to those facing mental health challenges. A witness whereof, the Moorpark City Council does set its hand and cause a seal of the city of Moorpark to be affixed this sixth day of May 2026.
0:05 – 0:103 turns
Hello, everyone. Thank you for having me here. We are very happy to be here with Espiranet. I had a whole speech planned out but I think everything was just about covered. But yeah, May has been Mental Health Awareness Month in the United States since 1949 and that continues to be very relevant today. This country is unfortunately going through a mental health crisis due to multiple factors affecting especially our youth So just to let the community know, Aspirinette is here in Moorpark, California. We serve Medi-Cal eligible youth in the East County area.
We see youth ages 0 to 21 years of age and we do also provide community services so if any of our clients are house insecure or food insecure, we try our best to refer them over to whatever they need to better their quality of life and their mental wellness. I do have some flyers with me if anyone would like any more information. Thank you for your time.
Our next item is 4C, a proclamation declaring May 3rd to 9th 2026 as Small Business Week. Will Bruce Densley, President and CEO of the Economic Development Collaborative please join us? Proclamation of the City of Moorpark Council declaring May 3rd through May 9th, 2026 as Small Business Week. Whereas National Small Business Week is a time to celebrate the vital contributions of small businesses to our economy and our communities nationwide. And whereas recognized by Small Business Administration, National Small Business Week honors the resilience, ingenuity and entrepreneurship of small business owners in their direct contribution to economic vitality. Whereas a small business remains the heartbeat of our community and the backbone of the American economy, embodying a spirit of ingenuity and determination contributing to job creation, economic stability, and community development.
Whereas the spirit of entrepreneurship is fundamental to the fabric of our society, inspiring individuals to pursue their dreams, create opportunities, make meaningful contributions to the well-being of our communities. Whereas by supporting small businesses, jobs are created, consumers gain access to unique products and services, local communities preserve their unique culture. And whereas Moorpark is committed to empowering local entrepreneurs by providing access to resources, fostering a supportive business environment and promoting initiatives that encourage residents to prioritize or patronize small businesses. thereby strengthening the economic vitality and community cohesion. Now, therefore be it resolved that Moorpark City Council does hereby proclaim May 3rd through May 9th, 2026 as Small Business Week in the city of Moorpark and extends its gratitude to the Economic Development Collaborative for its dedication in supporting and advocating for the interests of small business owners.
In witness whereof, Moorparks City Council does set its hand and cause the seal of the city of Moorpark to be affixed this sixth day of May, 2026.
So, I can't help but take the opportunity to say a few things. Most of them were already said knowing that the leadership staff here in Council already know all this stuff so well and said it. Three quick things. One, who are small businesses? The U.S. Small Business Administration says it's everybody under 500 employees That's kind of a crazy definition. There's only about 30 of those in Ventura County. Here in Santa Paula, some 80% of all businesses have fewer than 10 employees. Countywide more than 90% of all businesses have fewer than 20. So we're talking about a huge proportion of business. On top of that there are about 70,000 sole proprietors or individual business owners finding their own way And finally I really want to make this point, or not finally but on the first point, 40 almost 50% of all workers in Ventura County either own or work for a very small business.
It's a huge piece which drives our economy and who we are. Secondly just a quick advertisement at the Economic Development Collaborative we are a small business center We work very closely with your leadership team at the city, with John and Janine and city manager staff. We provide no-cost business technical assistance in lending. What we know is that every small business owner has all the same issues of every large business. They're managing marketing and sales and customer relations, compliance and taxation and regulation, all of the finances, the global economy, and we've got resources to help them manage that. And finally as mentioned in the resolution Small business is the lifeblood of America. It's what creates job opportunities for all of us, it's distributed across every industry sector, it's driven by minority and women and other owners of all kinds, and without it we wouldn't be the community that we are.
We're thrilled. And I want to say in closing your city's leadership from the City Manager and Council through the staff has the strongest economic development and business team in the county. We're honored to be a partner with you. Thanks.
0:11 – 0:154 turns
Next item is 4D, a proclamation declaring May 3rd to 9th 2026 as Municipal Clerks Week. Will City Clerk Kai Spangler please join me at the podium or please join me at the microphone? Sure.
Would you lovely ladies all come on up because it takes more than one to be a clerk team.
A proclamation of the Moorpark City Council declaring May 3rd through 9th, 2026 as Municipal Clerks Week. Whereas the Office of the Municipal Clerk a time-honored and vital part of local government has existed throughout history and continues to serve as a cornerstone of democratic governments. Whereas the Office of the Municipal Clerk is the oldest among public servants and is being celebrated for the 57th time in 2026.
Recognizing more than half of a century of dedication by municipal clerks and their contributions to effective local governments. And whereas municipal clerks serve as a professional link between citizens, elected officials and government agencies at all levels ensuring transparency, accountability and accessibility in government operations. Whereas municipal clerks are entrusted with maintaining official records, administering elections Preserving local history and supporting the legislative process. Whereas municipal clerks continually strive to improve the administration of their offices through participation in education programs, professional development, membership in state, national and international associations. And whereas municipal clerks demonstrate unwavering dedication to neutrality, integrity and the highest standards of public services.
Now therefore be it resolved the Moorpark City Council does hereby proclaim the week of May 3rd through May 9th 2026 as Municipal Clerks Week and further extends appreciation to our own municipal clerks into all municipal clerks for the vital services they perform their exemplary dedication to the communities they represent a witness whereof the Moorpark City Council does set its hand and cause the seal of the city of Moorpark to be affixed this sixth day of may 2026 Thank you for all you do
Apparently we do write really good proclamations because I think I'm gonna say what Maria just said because some of what I wrote is pretty much in that proclamation, but mayor integrand members of the council members of the public Thank you for this recognition of municipal clerks week on the behalf of the clerk's office I want to express my sincere appreciation For the proclamation and the council's continued support for what we do We are one of the oldest professions in local government, and we take that very very seriously today The work has evolved significantly but the core mission remains the same exactly what the public is what the public expects. Public trust through transparency, accountability, accuracy and service.
We do a lot of things quietly behind the scenes so it's not always visible to the public but I know that City Council and all the city staff understand what it is that we do. I'm going to jump ahead because I'm incredibly fortunate to work with a team and I want to recognize them tonight because I would not be as successful at what I do without each one of them I'm genuinely pleased and proud to work with these ladies. Our Deputy City Clerk, Blanca Garza has dedicated more than 26 years of service to the city and she's truly a cornerstone of our team. Her institutional knowledge, her professionalism and her steady presence are absolutely invaluable to us.
Our records supervisor Michelle McMurtry has accomplished a remarkable amount of work in just 17 months, making significant progress in addressing decades of records management backlog while improving organizational efficiency through her efforts. Our part-time records clerk, Aubrey Hurtado and Proclamation Queen joined us four and a half years ago with no background in the clerk profession. And it has been incredibly rewarding to watch her grow, her knowledge, her confidence, her capability all hard work and dedication. I'm thrilled to have her with us.
Our newest part-time records clerk Brooke joined us in October She's already demonstrated tremendous value initiative and competence and has become an important part of our office in a very short time So to my faint team, I thank you for your commitment your support to one another and the care you bring every day This recognition belongs to all of us. And thank you again to the council for recognizing municipal clerks week. Thank you
0:16 – 0:1816 turns
We're just getting
better and better here in
Moorpark.
All right,
here.
What? Smile.
Next item is 5, public comment. Do we have any speakers?
No Mr. Mayor, no speakers for public comment.
We'll move to Item 6, reordering of and additions to the agenda. Does anyone need to pull anything from consent? I'm going to go ahead and pull 10-I. I believe there's some recusals. And Mr. Gagahena, I believe we have one of the agenda items that will be pulled off.
Yes mayor. Item 9A will also be pulled. The County Water Works is not ready to make a presentation this evening.
I actually want to bring something up for a future agenda item. Is that, no?
That would be numbers.
I'm so sorry. Okay. I thought we were there. It must be
really good.
My apologies.
We're almost there. Excellent. Next item is 7, announcements of future agenda items and reports on meetings and conferences attended by council members and mayor. Do you want to go first, Renee?
0:18 – 0:267 turns
Sure. Okay, so on the 17th went to the Chamber of Commerce breakfast. On the 19th the Castro Charities and Magdalena Farms one-year anniversary and it was really incredible to see all the trees that we had planted last year and planted even more. The ground is very very hard We were jumping on those. And on the 21st, went to the Sheriff's Volunteer Appreciation Dinner.
Also went to the High Street Art Center Strategic Group meeting on the 28th, to the Candidates Forum and on the 29th, the Marketing Ad Hoc Committee. And as far as future agenda items, if I can just add that now. Of course. I do want to talk about in light of recent e-bike deaths especially in Simi. I do want to see what we're doing to strengthen our own policies for e-bikes if we have any, if there's anything that we're coming up with and just in general I'd just like to know about them.
Sure, Council Member Delgado. In fact, Chief O'Donath and I have already been working for several months to put something together in front of you so we'll be ready to schedule that at a future council meeting.
Thank you. Mr. Barrett?
On April 17th, I attended the Chamber of Commerce networking breakfast on April 19. I attended the Magdalena Community Farm one-year anniversary. It was a great experience. We did get our whole dug for the tree. We planted a persimmon tree and I look forward to going back and watching that. They had gotten their water Piping put in the week before so we are excited to see that soil come to life and All the wonderful things that they're doing to feed our community on April 28th. I attended the League of Women Voters and the Moorpark Chamber of Commerce Candidates Forum for the State Assembly On the 29th, I attended the Marketing Ad Hoc Committee On May 1st, I had the fortune of going to see Footloose at the High Street Arts Center. And if you missed it, I am so sorry.
Unfortunately it has ended but our very own Renee Delgado had quite the role and she did incredible. It's great to see the community come out and support the arts, and it was a great show. Don't miss Joseph & The Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat which will be the next one. On May 5th I attended the Chamber Mixer at Lucky Q, another great new business here in Moorpark. And as we talk about Small Business Week You know, a family that started a local business here and put that together. And just to see their passion and their excitement and to see the joy of everyone attending Playing pool and having that option here in Moorpark is just incredible. So great to see This morning I had the pleasure of reading for first five at the Moorpark Library And this at noon today, I attended the government relations meeting That's it
DeCastro?
Thank you, Mr. Mayor. On April 22nd I attended the County and Public Safety Leadership Forum. Want to thank the city manager and our chief for representing Moorpark at that event. On April 27th I attended the Battle of the Badges events. And then on May 4th along with the mayor participated in the Transportation and Public Works Committee meeting. And I apologize for missing the last council meeting. I was in Washington D.C.
in transit and couldn't identify a location from which to participate so thank you good to be back Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Mayor it has been a busy season here the on April 22nd I had the pleasure of meeting with our team council right here in Chambers and what a what a great job our city staff does particularly Jonathan Royas And what an inspiring group of people we have Of young people that are just doing wonderful things and making all of us really proud So it's always humbling to talk to that group and see just how much they've accomplished And how far I have to go to keep up so On April 23rd, I was honored to be part of a Moorpark business engagement tour. And I want to recognize our economic development team and the city.
We had multiple different business leaders from LA City proper representing over $1 billion worth of real estate holdings in commerce come and visit Moorpark to see what we're all about And between John, Jean, Janine, PJ, Jonathan, Doug and even our intern Jamie, Moorpark put on such a incredible presentation of just how different we are. And we get up here and we have the privilege and the honor to debate and mull over the details of what we're doing here in Moorpark. But when you take a step back and you watch people that are dealing with some of those larger cities that might be our neighbors and just how different a community we are.
It leaves just tremendous pride, at least in me. And then I did take them on a tour of High Street, a walking tour of High Street and they went in there all of them were like hey how do we get involved in this community? We want to have people have our employees live here. We want to have businesses here. This is the type of community that it should be so great job to our team on that one.
On April 28th through 30th I was in Chicago at a global leadership conference. On May 4th, I toured the Indianapolis City Hall. Thank you for having me, Indianapolis! What I take away from that is just how professional and cold Their their direction is in Indianapolis when you walk into City Hall, something that we as a city. I think we exude warmth and welcome to our community that wants to participate. I think it's excellent and I look forward to seeing how we can continue to grow that with our With our decor and really make sure our community knows that this is their City Hall.
So Indianapolis is doing great, it's just different than the culture we have here at Moorpark. And then today May 6th along with Mayor Enneagrin I attended the Moorpark immigration stakeholders meeting continuing to engage our communities that are finding themselves With struggles and needing to know where resources are available. And then I attended with Council Member Delgado, the Community Economic Development Committee with two different topics that will be coming in front of council so it's been a busy couple weeks
0:26 – 0:326 turns
OK. So April 17th, I also attended the Chamber Networking Breakfast. It's always a good event to go to. April 21st, I attended the Volunteering in Policing Award Recognition Dinner. And this is for the police volunteers. You see them around town, always a smile on their face helping out our law enforcement. April 28th, and I also attended the Candidates Forum. It was a well-run event.
May 4th, TPW meeting with Dr. Castro and then May 5th I attended the Lucky Q mixer that's a great place if you're into pool definitely go check that out and then May 6 I attended today to the government relations meeting at the Chamber of Commerce And also the Immigration Stakeholders Committee meeting. And also, I attended the Moorpark College review with a release of their new magazine at a local brewery we'll just say and it's really good that they had this magazine for about 30 years and it went away during COVID and they just brought it right back But it's full of different types of artwork, poetry, music, literature. So definitely explore that.
Get a look at that one. A lot of talent involved in that. That's it for myself and I got a few announcements here.
Mr. Mayor, I did leave out one very important attendee at that business engagement tour which was our own Chief Odenath who came out and dazzled those business leaders with response times and how we handle retail theft and really just a shining moment of just how much money a business can save if they're in Moorpark versus the city that might not respond as quickly. And I think one of the gentlemen talked about watching $300,000 of inventory leave while the police officers that he could locate on the next block would not respond because of whatever reason. So that wouldn't fly in Moorpark. Chief Odenath made that really clear and it's just another point of pride of everything we're doing great here. That's right
And Mayor, regarding future agenda items.
I also have one I want to bring forward on our policy with the committee meetings we require all committee applicants to be here in person for the application process and interview I think that's still a really good thing to have, but I would hate to disqualify someone that couldn't make it that day for an illness or planned vacation. So I want to see if we could explore a way to make some exceptions that don't turn into all remote viewing but...
Yes, Mayor. What we can do is review the council policies and bring back that item to you at a future council meeting to allow for some type of remote attendance. Still require in-person attendance but under special circumstances may be allowed for remote.
Thank you. Okay, I got a few announcements here. Ventura County Fire Department Junior Fire Academy is entirely free intensive five-day camp designed for girls and boys aged 13 to 15 to experience what it's like to be a firefighter. Space is limited to 30 first time campers per session. Spots are strictly on a first come first serve basis and is only open to Ventura County residents.
The week-long sessions are a great first step towards VCFD Explorer Program. Girls and boys aged 13 to 15 will learn what it takes to be a firefighter, will be introduced into other fire safety careers such as paramedic, fire inspector, fire prevention officer and dispatcher. And Chief Odenap was asking if he could do it but it's 13 to 15 so I think you're out of that.
Sorry but... Students will learn about personal protective gear, tools, hoses, fire behavior, hands-on CPR and basic first aid. The Academy will conclude with the graduation ceremony and a free family barbecue lunch each Friday. The live registration link we posted on our website available 9am on May 12th and we'll fill it fast so for more information visit vcfd.org For questions email jfa at venturacounty dot gov Put on your quads and blades and join us for an evening of skating, music, contests and more at Skate Night on Friday May 15th.
The fun takes place from 6 to 8 p.m. at the Royal Vista Community Park multi-use court. Our theme for May is Pop Paradise. Admission is free. For details visit moorparkca.gov slash skate Registration is now open for summer camp Moorpark at the Royal Vista Recreation Center. Camp is for children ages 5 to 11 and includes games, sports, crafts, events, field trips and more. Camp packets and enrollment forms are available at moorparkca.gov slash camp Registration is open for the 2026-27 school year for Moorpark Little Learners Academy, a traditional preschool program for 2 and 3 year olds.
Classes are held at Arrow Vista Recreation Center. Open hours will be available on May 27th and 28th at 930 AM through RSVP or for more information email avrc at moorparkca dot gov or visit moorparkca dot gov slash preschool. I will say two of my kids went to that program and it was excellent. Moorpark Apricot Festival and Art Fair returns to High Street this Saturday, May 9th from 10 a.m. to 4 p.m.. The event is free to attend. Enjoy art, craft vendors, food, local beer and wine, apricot offerings, live music, cultural dance, kids activities, an animal show, and much more. For more information visit moorparkapricotfestival.com All right. Next item is public hearings, Item 8A. Let's consider resolution revising the rules and regulations governing city facility rentals and facility rental fees deposits in additional charges and rescinding Resolution Number 2020-3963.
Ms. Anderson?
0:32 – 0:406 turns
Thank you, Honorable Mayor and City Council. This item was actually presented at the April 15th council meeting and is returning tonight for a public hearing due to some of the fees contained in the resolution. As discussed on April 15th and in the agenda report staff is proposing changes to our facility rental rules and rental fees. Since this has already been presented I'm just going to briefly review some of those more significant changes and then be available for questions at the end.
So for the rental rules, get my PowerPoint started here. Okay. So for the rental rules, those were last updated in 2020 so about six years ago and the changes include just a general cleanup of language throughout the resolution. Language has been moved to more appropriate sections for consistency. We have added a few definitions to the definition section for clarity And we've also added some language to comply with California laws as they relate to interpretive services, sidewalk vendors, as well as food facility permits.
We are now requiring an earlier application period for very large rentals to give staff adequate time to process them. We have made several changes to the cancellation section, including having a less restrictive cancellation for inclement weather and adding some language regarding specific cancellations due to wet fields and other reasons. We have also relaxed restrictions on locations of attractions, performers and equipment. We have added language to place conditions on storage of renters' property because we have recently had a large increase in requests for storage.
And we have also revised our rental restrictions including restrictions on the city council chambers and manually conference room for meetings only as well as at open grass areas or smaller parks. We will no longer allow recurring use. For the rental fees, those were established in 1986 based on market surveys. And then in 2023 they were incorporated into our user and regulatory fee schedule. And for the following two years they were just increased by CPI. And so what we are proposing is removing those rental fees from that fee schedule and placing them in the same resolution as their rental rules for just better transparency.
And we are also making changes to their group classifications and how fees are calculated. So for the group classifications, the changes that we're proposing is adding a new group classification of Group Zero which will be the fully subsidized group. The city will just absorb all costs related to those rentals and those will essentially be for public agencies for public purposes. Moorpark nonprofits for free community events that are not fundraisers and Moorpark Unified School District for PE classes during school hours And there we are redefining group one, which will now include public agencies that don't qualify for group zero. Moorpark nonprofits for free community events but those could include fundraisers and youth sports organizations with facility use agreements in compliance with the terms of their agreements.
We cleaned up the definitions for groups two and three for clarity but we did not materially change who is included in those groups. And then the fees, what we've done is essentially changed the methodology for calculating them. So rather than using a market survey, we've actually calculated an hourly cost for the city and so what we are now going to do is charge the hourly cost to group one and then scale the fees on set percentages for groups two, three, and four And the result of this was that facilities for some fees, they increased across user groups. Some decreased across user groups and some increased or decreased depending on your user group because again we're now using a consistent metric. We still did do a survey just to make sure that our fees were not out of line with neighboring agencies and found that our fees are still comparable to those other agencies.
Other changes that we made to the fees, we revised the permit application fees to ensure recovering our cost to process those permits. We added some fees for property storage. We added a fee for credit card payments over $1,000 as a temporary measure to address the issue of the city paying credit card fees and then we also did relax the cancellation fees based on how far in advance you cancel a renter to be more customer friendly.
And that concludes my report and I'm available for any questions.
Thank you. Any questions of staff? Go ahead and I'll open the public hearing. Do we have any speakers?
No, Mr. Mayor. No speakers on this item.
All right.
It looks like someone is standing
to sign up at a time but if I may speak My name is Victoria Ellis and I urge the City Council to adopt this resolution without the amendment to section 3.12 subsection B restricting the use of rentals for open grass areas based on prior meetings and staff presentations, this amendment appears to have been introduced in response to concerns about a local woman-owned dog agility small business using city parks. I participated in these classes for about three years Concerns and the concerns being raised simply do not match the actual use of park.
First, there were complaints that the agility was dominating in the park but the open grass area at College View Park is roughly 52,000 square feet while typical agility green uses about 5,000 square feet less than 10% of this space. Using a small portion of a four-acre park a few days a week is not dominating the park. Second, there were complaints about parking There's no evidence that the noise came specifically from the dogs participating in agility rather than the adjacent dog park or the dogs that are regularly off leash at that park. In fact, agility instructors and participants are highly attentive to barking dogs because they're actively trying to be respectful of residents and other park users.
Public parks naturally involve activity and noises from many different sources. At practice last Friday, the birthday party with the giant Jenga towers definitely caused more noise than our agility practice. Third, restricting permitted rentals creates the wrong incentive structure. This business is paying fees, reserving space properly and following city procedures. Meanwhile there are other vendors using Moorpark parks for private coaching and commercial activities without permits at all. Penalizing the people who follow the rules while unpermitted activities continues unchecked creates an uneven and counterproductive system.
More importantly, this program uses a unique recreational service that's given to the broader community. Moorpark offers one of the only dog agility programs in Ventura County. I recently moved to Ventura and am still driving here once a week for classes. And I'm far from the only one. The agility trials hosted at Moorpark Parks also attract hundreds of out-of-town visitors who contribute to the local economy. Without access to a large private yard, structured agility classes provide one of the few safe and legal opportunities for dogs to exercise off leash in a controlled environment. Rather than individuals informally setting up equipment in a public space like a dog park, this program offers a structured, supervised and respectful use of the park through the proper city channels.
This vendor is providing a service that the city cannot provide to its community. Even the chair of the Parks and Rec Commission stated during the April meeting that the agility classes occupy relatively small area, did not prevent others from using the park, and left this space in a better condition than they found it. A broad restriction on open grass rentals is not an appropriate response to a narrow set of unsupported complaints. I respectfully urge City Council to reject this amendment and continue supporting a recreational program that clearly benefits the community and its local small businesses, and rejects the amendment to section 3.12 subsection B. Thank you.
0:40 – 1:0013 turns
All speakers
I have no further speaker card so unless there's anybody else in the audience wishing to speak. No no further speaker cards
okay we'll go ahead and close the public hearing. Discussion. Let's take it off.
I know we heard all of this yesterday, and thank you to our speaker. It is nice to hear... it does say that you can use other parks, so like Arroyo Vista Community Park, Mountain Meadows Park, Peach Hill Park, Point District Park, some of the larger parks that we have will be available to those types of groups. So I think it's only our smaller parks that were being restricted.
So just wanted to make sure that was clear.
We went through most of this last meeting. I was in favor of pretty much the whole thing and it just kind of consolidates a lot of the fees and schedules. I know we did bring up some... Mr. Barrett brought up a question about renting parks out for weddings or something like that with alcohol uses, and that's something we're going to be bringing back on a later date, correct? But for what it is here, I'm in support of that.
I just want to verify with city staff, on the dog agility and thank you for the speaker for coming out and making the drive to share that with us. I have some family members that participate not in this one but in dog agility it is a spectator sport let alone the people that are enjoying doing it. But would this operation that was referenced continue to be able to use parks as Councilwoman Delgado had said they'd just have to go to the larger parks? Is that correct?
That's correct. We are actually accommodating that now at Mountain Meadows Park, and so in addition to Mountain Meadows Park it would still be allowed at Arroyo Vista, Peach Hill and Poindexter if for some reason Mountain Meadows was not available. So by adding this restriction we're just trying to balance still being able to allow that type of rental use and support that business with concerns from the community at our smaller neighborhood parks.
Understood. That makes sense to me. And those other parks aren't so booked out that a dog agility wouldn't be able to access them in some way. Is that right?
We should be able to find somewhere to accommodate. Again, the normal park that vendor is using right now is Mountain Meadows but actually thinks she's going to be using Arroyo Vista coming up for a larger trial so again there are more than one park to choose from for this particular user.
Very cool thank you I'm glad we got that settled and thank you for coming out and talking to us about it.
Yeah I'm glad we can make it work somewhere else. I understand there's residents and complaints and the last thing want to do is see a group like that go away but if there's a better park in a better spot for it I think that's great. Okay. Well, I will go ahead and I'll move the recommendation. Second. The motion is seconded. We need a roll call vote.
Roll-call vote Passed 5–0 motion is seconded. We need a roll call
Show transcript
Next is public hearings item A, B to consider resolution proving CD-MPD-2023-0000 an 8,578 square foot mixed use building with two ground floor commercial spaces. And six residential units on an 18,212 square foot vacant lot located at 347 Moorpark Avenue and denying CD-VAR-2026-0002 a variance permit to allow an alternative screening treatment in lieu of an eight foot high decorative block wall.
The western side of the property on the application of Yossi Bar-Zion and making a determination of exemption from the California Environmental Quality Act in connection therewith. Mr. Newman?
All right, thank you. Good evening Mayor Inegrin and council members I'm Philip Newman senior planner This evening are presenting mixed-use plan development permit CD MPD 2023 0 0 0 & variance number CD VAR 2026 0 0 2 This application was filed by Yossi Bar-Zion. This slide here describes the proposal before you this evening. This is the aerial map showing the location of the project site.
The project is located off of Moorpark Avenue to the west, near the intersection of Moorpark Avenue and 3rd Street. This land use map shows the project site identified with the red marker and blue outline as located within the downtown specific plan area, which qualifies it to comply with the downtown specific plan guidelines. The properties directly located to the north, south and east are also located within the DTSP.
The properties adjacent to the project site on the west are designated neighborhood low The zoning map also shows the project site, once again identified by the blue outline and red marker. The property is zoned mixed-use low along with the properties directly to the north, south and east. The properties to the west are zoned single family residential. There are residential homes located to the west, south and east with commercial buildings located to the north as well as to the east.
Here we can see the existing site. This is facing west from the direction of Moorpark Avenue. You can see the residential neighborhood directly to the rear of the site. Previously, there were existing commercial uses including a gasoline service station and mechanics shop. The site was cleaned up and the environmental cleanup status associated with the previous gasoline service station shows clean-up was completed in 1996. The structures were demolished between 2007 and 2009.
Here's the site plan. Moorpark Avenue can be seen east of the site. Driveway curb cut access to the parking on-site is northeast of the building. The parking lot contains 23 parking spaces, two more than required by the municipal code. The trash enclosure is located to the rear of the building to the west An accessible path of travel leads to the trash enclosure and a designated spot for the first floor accessible unit.
Lastly, the site plan shows a 20-foot easement to the city for future Moorpark Avenue widening. The first floor contains two commercial units with the main entry off of Moorpark Avenue. To the rear of the smaller commercial unit is an accessible residential unit which has an outdoor patio. The tenant stairway access to the second floor is located off the front of the building in the northeast corner and off of the rear of the building in the southwest corner.
On the second floor, there are five residential units. Three of which are one-bedroom units and the other two are two-bedroom units. All units have balconies and in-unit laundry. These renderings exhibit the architectural style of the building. It pulls architectural elements from the downtown Pacific plan using an early American commercial style. This incorporates a flat roof with a parapet, multi-paned windows that are vertically oriented and the use of brick on the exterior for style continuity. Brick elements wrapped to the north and south sides of the building The applicant has also incorporated Spanish style accents with the diamond architectural features and the use of stucco.
Sierra tan colored stucco is a primary stucco color with enhancements provided by Asheville, Sandstone and Alamo colored stuccos. The exterior of the building uses sunset red-colored thin brick veneer Doors will be a natural brown color and the windows of bronze color. The architecture has been determined to comply with requirements of the downtown specific plan The project proposes landscaping along each side of the site.
Planters would house an assortment of perennials, ground cover, shrubs and trees. The frontage of the property along Moorpark Avenue would have three walkways that connect directly to the sidewalk with landscaping between them. Four new trees would be located along Moorpark Avenue. The proposed project is consistent with numerous goals and policies of the 2050 General Plan, particularly those promoting mixed use, infill, transit-oriented development. A few of them and how the project complies are laid out on this slide with many more provided within the staff report. The examples here are the following.
Sustainable growth by accommodating infill and redevelopment of existing developed areas, mixed-use districts and corridors by integrating commercial and housing to reduce automobile use and enhance the pedestrian activity. This aligns with the requirement that the ground floor be developed for pedestrian active retail with housing on upper floors or to the rear.
Downtown revitalization by promoting new commercial and housing development in the Commercial Core and capitalizes on its adjacency to the Metrolink station. And lastly, facilitate the expansion and improvement of housing options Pursuant to Moorpark Municipal Code Section 1720.070, a planned development permit is required in all mixed-use zones for any new building construction. All mixed use plan development permits shall be reviewed by the Planning Commission and decided on by the City Council.
On March 24th, 2026 the Planning Commission adopted resolution number PC-2026-718 finding the project exempt from CEQA and recommending approval of the development permit and denial of the variance request. The proposed project complies with all development standards, with the exception of the parking lot screening requirement. The proposed project does not comply with MMC Section 17-32040 C8 which I will discuss shortly in the presentation.
Just as a reminder, since a variance isn't an application that the City Council frequently sees, a variance is a discretionary adjustment to the regulations set forth in the Moorpark Municipal Code. Because zoning laws are designed to apply uniformly across a district, a variance is a tool intended only for rare circumstances where the physical characteristics of a property recreate a unique burden.
To recommend approval of the variance, the City Council must determine that special circumstances exist such as unique size, shape, topography or location that would otherwise deny the property owner privileges enjoyed by others in the same zone. In the city of Moorpark all five legal findings must be met to justify the granting of a variance if these specific conditions cannot be proven and the request cannot be approved.
The applicant is requesting a variance from the screening requirements mandated by Moorpark Municipal Code Section 1732-040C8, which reads as when a parking lot abuts a residentially zoned property an eight foot high decorative block wall measured from the highest finished grade adjacent to the wall must be provided along with a minimum 10-foot wide landscaped buffer. The business owner must maintain the wall and the landscaping in good condition for the life of the use.
The West site boundary has an existing chain link fence located on top of a retaining wall. An additional chain link fence is located adjacent to the wall. The applicant has requested a variance to remove the existing chain link fence adjacent to the wall and replace it with a six foot high black wrought iron fence with evergreen landscaping in lieu of the required eight foot high block wall.
The project site is approximately four feet higher in grade from existing residential lots to the west, and an existing retaining wall falls on the shared property line. The top left photo on this slide shows the current site condition with the fencing on the top of the retaining wall. The top right photo shows the proposed black wrought iron fence. The applicant provided the lower two renderings, showing on the left what the wall could look like from an adjacent property on the west should it be built on top of the existing wall.
And then the lower right photo shows a rendering of a wrought iron fence with vegetation. The agenda report includes staff's response directly addressing the applicant's justification for the variance. The report also provides a detailed analysis of each required finding. With that context, I will now summarize the required findings beginning with the first.
The first finding that must be made states there are special circumstances applicable to the subject property with regard to size, shape, topography, location or surroundings such that the strict application of the zoning regulations denies the property owner privileges enjoyed by other property owners in the vicinity and under identical zoning districts. The first finding cannot be met as the size, shape, topography, location or surroundings of the subject property does not possess unique physical characteristics that distinguish it from surrounding parcels.
While the applicant has noted an elevation change at the rear of the site, similar elevation contours have been identified with nearby parcels, the size and shape of the subject parcel is also consistent with nearby parcels The subject parcel does not contain any special circumstances that would prevent the construction of a code-compliant wall. Therefore, requiring the standard eight foot high decorative block wall does not deny this owner any privilege. The screening requirement is uniformly applied to prevent impacts to adjacent residential uses and no site specific constraints prevents compliance with this standard.
The second finding states the granting of the requested variance will not confer a special privilege inconsistent with the limitations upon other properties in the same vicinity and zone. For the second finding, granting of the requested variance would confer a special privilege as the applicant has not demonstrated that this specific site cannot accommodate the decorative block wall required of all other developments and with parking lots abutting residential zones.
Allowing a six-foot wrought iron fence would exempt this project from a standard requirement that applies to other nearby properties with parking lots. Without a clear physical need for the change, the variance would serve only as a benefit to the applicant rather than address a specific issue with the site. The third finding reads as follows, the strict application of the zoning regulations as they apply to the subject property will result in practical difficulties or unnecessary hardships inconsistent with the general purpose of such regulations.
For the third finding, the purpose of the screening regulation is to protect the privacy and quiet enjoyment of the neighboring single-family homes on McFadden Avenue. The strict application of the zoning regulations as they apply to the subject property does not result in an unnecessary hardship because it is feasible to construct the required wall on this property.
Financial impacts and personal preference for an alternative design do not constitute a practical difficulty or hardship inconsistent with the purpose of this regulation. Furthermore, the applicant has enough space to install the eight-foot high block wall as required by the MMC. There is no hardship that justifies departing from the city's established design standards. Therefore, the finding cannot be met.
The fourth finding states the granting of such variance will not be detrimental to the public health, safety or general welfare nor to the use enjoyment or valuation of neighboring properties. For the fourth finding, the proposed six-foot high black wrought iron fence when combined with evergreen landscaping would be located entirely on the subject property. This alternative screening would not be detrimental to the public health or safety of the community.
However, the lack of a solid wall to mitigate light and noise associated with the proposed parking lot situated above an adjacent two existing single family homes would impair the use enjoyment and valuation of neighboring properties. And lastly, finding number five states the granting of a variance in conjunction with a hazardous waste facility will be consistent with the portions of the county's Hazardous Waste Management Plan CHWMP that identifies specific sites or siting criteria for hazardous waste facilities.
The fifth finding is not applicable to the current application as the project does not involve the development or operation of a hazardous waste facility. Based upon analysis provided in the staff report, this project has been determined categorically exempt from environmental review in accordance with section 15332 class 32 infill development projects of the CEQA guidelines.
This concludes my presentation. The Planning Commission recommends that City Council open the public hearing, accept public testimony and close the public hearing and adopt a resolution that one finds the project categorically exempt from CEQA Two, approves mixed use plan development permit number CDMPD 2023-0000 subject to certain findings and conditions. And three denies variance number CDVAR 2026-0002. Thank you.
1:00 – 1:0523 turns
Thank you. Before we start, are there any ex parte communications anyone's have had with the applicant? Okay, thank you. Any questions of staff?
Looking at the pictures from exhibit 7, 9, 10. From 352 McFadden Avenue and 336 McFadden Avenue. Presumably these are the rear neighbors to that property? Am I correct in that?
That's correct.
Okay, and are they the ones that are advocating to not have that wall? We'll get to whether or not it is even possible in a moment but are those neighbors saying don't put a wall up in my backyard or is the applicant supposing that those neighbors wouldn't want that block wall? Do we know that information?
So as far as communication with neighboring properties goes, the staff sticks with the public noticing requirements by the municipal code. Any communication with the neighbors would have been done via the applicant and the applicant is here today in case you have any questions as far as that goes.
I'd be interested to know what those neighbors are saying or not saying The applicant being here is fantastic, but may have a different interest than those neighbors if we don't have it directly from those neighbors. But I would be interested to hear more information about that particular item.
I have a question. So the standard single-family home is approximately 14 feet at its peak, so this 12 foot wall would be covering a vast majority of that single family home way past the window line. Is that correct from where they're sitting? The neighbor's homes? Because it would be 12 feet from their side.
Yes, there's approximately a four foot difference currently and then yeah you'd have the added wall technically above that.
And because these are rendered What 352 McFadden, is it that shorter currently six foot or I don't know what it actually has wall all the way across that they have or do they have something different there at that property line? Because I see they have three different types of fencing.
Councilmember, maybe on page 139 Exhibit 5. I am guessing...
Oh, I'm sorry. Yep. I missed that one. I'm
sure our talented city staff can correct me if
I'm wrong. Yes, yes. That's correct. So they do have three different fence lines? Okay.
I have one question. The eight foot wall on top of the four foot grade change, what I understand that wall is not put directly on top of the retaining wall correct?
Correct. As proposed by the applicant, it would be adjacent kind of adjacent to that wall because it would be replacing there is a there's a fence on top of the current retaining wall and then there's another fence right next to the retaining wall. It would be next to that. That's where the fence would.
So it looks like a terraced in fence as opposed to a straight 12 foot monolith of stone correct?
Correct. Well, so the...
It's not grading the other property down. It's keeping that four foot height. So it's an eight foot wall on top of that and it steps down into four feet below it.
So we'd be behind this?
Right.
Go ahead. Sure. Could you define decorative wall?
Thank you, Council Member Barrett. I'll take a stab at that one. That was a topic of discussion among us as well as you might imagine and in this instance knowing that it had to be a block wall the addition of decorative in my mind meant that would be a split face block. It would not be the straight cut CMU so that's the extent of... We concluded.
Okay, and then you know seeing the backyards adjacent here there's some structures and things in their backyards there's some landscaping that abuts the current retaining wall is it possible to structurally build this new wall without damaging those structures in the neighboring yards?
1:05 – 1:1114 turns
So the applicant, we haven't gotten to that point in the building permit process. So they would need to get the structural calculations and basically determine where a wall could be built and if it would affect the other properties. And if it would, that would be something handled between the applicant and the adjacent property.
Thank you. Council Member Barrett I'd add that In this business, for lack of a better term, it's our priority to identify impacts if they exist to adjacent property owners that might result from our decisions. And in this case we worked with Mr. Dane Lovett who is in the audience, our deputy building official and we were informed that there would be a way to construct this wall in a way that was structurally isolated from those improvements on and past this proposed property line and to not affect them.
I just was hoping that you could spend a little bit of time talking about the
Parking, you alluded to it in the presentation. It's on the staff report. It's PDF page 12 but pages 81 and 82 listed on there. The project as proposed exceeds the minimum required parking and one of the things that's unique about developments in the downtown area is its proximity to mass transit So I was hoping you could just share a little bit more about that. What kinds of flexibilities come with these types of proposed developments that are within this certain proximity of mass transit, in this case the Metrolink station?
Yes so being close to the Metrolink station it would actually not require the parking spaces. So this applicant is actually proposing more than what would technically be Required by state law and in addition what our code would normally Require he's adding two on top of that. So I don't know if I said that made yeah, explain that clearly but Under normal circumstances He's providing two extra spaces but due to the proximity to that Metrolink station is actually providing a lot more than required
Thank you
To follow up on parking, first I'll say there's nothing worse than a council member not giving you a heads-up that he's going to ask for a detail and then deciding to do it anyway. There was a question about—that was brought up by the public in an email about the increase in traffic on Moorpark Avenue because of this project. I'm curious—and here's where I put you on the spot, my apologies Mr. Newman—do we know what kind of traffic count Moorpark Avenue gets in a given day?
If we suppose that there is going to be half a dozen additional cars and maybe a dozen additional trips, would that be relevant to the traffic that's going up and down Moorpark Avenue?
The traffic was analyzed under the general plan. This project kind of fits within the general plan guidelines and what was reviewed for that, so I don't have the specific for this project but it does fit in what was previously studied.
To rephrase perhaps an easier question, there is no anticipated impact or significant impact on traffic at Moorpark Avenue based on this project? Correct. Thank you for that. And then the
front... Council Member Means could I add to that? That's a direction I was going to and if a residence as this assuming that this were to be approved If an individual resident had a concern about circulation for this development as they would any other development in any other part of the city, how would they go about just continuing to be engaged in that process?
Because we're just responding to a recent public comment or public statement.
Thank you, Councilmembers both. I would point to our traffic impact fee as the mechanism that is designed to based on each trip generated by this project proactively mitigate the demand on our roadway system of those trips. The traffic impact fee which was adopted I believe back in 2023 around the time of our general plan update included projected development following implementation of the general plan, and it also identified specific enhancements to our roadway infrastructure necessary to ensure that the impacts tracked our capacity.
And I apologize your direct question escapes me now after that.
No, I think that addressed it obliquely. The question would be then if a resident is subsequently concerned about circulation, how would we go about addressing those concerns?
Thank you. That concern does come up pretty frequently and it's a discussion that we engage in with our public works director to look at those planned capital improvement projects that will address traffic more globally. Thank you.
Thanks. If I can address the question, we also have the downtown specific plan that we're looking at and developing and I think that those sorts of questions are imperative. I understand the concern globally if we keep building where people are going to park and then how is traffic gonna flow? So that is another area I think we all welcome public feedback in any way we can get it.
One further question about the structure of the building in the front, I see on the mock-ups that says office space on one side and orthodontia on the other. Are these commercial uses? Is it truly office and medical or could it be any sort of retail Could those down the line be converted to additional residential units?
1:12 – 1:1612 turns
Under this plan development permit it's There to be used as commercial units, but as far as the uses that go in there It's not necessarily strictly They don't necessarily strictly have to be office use uses wherever is permitted in our use tables and the code and Could could go in there
Thank you for that clarity. Additionally, could they be converted to additional residential units? I'm not on the impression they can be but I wanted to make sure that we weren't looking at a mixed-use building that's consistent with what we're seeing in a walkable downtown just to have the building converted to all housing which might feel disingenuous to some of the neighbors in that area
Thank you. I think at the very least that would have to be considered as part of a permit adjustment. One of the things we'll need to look at is in a mixed-use project, currently there's a requirement for a certain minimum commercial square footage that's in the code so we would need to make sure that with that new proposal it would still meet the development standards that applied.
Thank you.
I want to go to page 137 The stamp page 137 on the report. This is a view showing west, so those tall trees back on that wall. It looks like a chain link fence and there's a retaining wall right there that drops down into the neighbor's property. So the picture you're showing was showing a 12-foot wall. So it's showing an 8-foot wall built directly on top of that existing 4-foot wall, but how are we going to do that with all those trees sitting there? Would those trees all be ripped out because what I understood the wall would have to be built probably 10 foot setback from the current retaining wall there.
So currently those trees appear to be on his property, but they're actually on the other side of the neighboring property. Do you mean the neighbor's trees? Yes. Okay. Yeah. The way they're coming through it looks like it's on that
property. So you can't build a wall on top of that so those pictures don't line up?
Think if I understood the comments earlier that you could build the wall adjacent so So leave their existing retaining wall and essentially build a new retaining wall on the other side of it Behind it behind it right. So these trees that you're looking at if I'm understanding correctly staff Could get trimmed Right because they're actually planted on the opposite side of that wall So the branches projecting this direction towards the photo could get trimmed and the wall would essentially be able to fit in there.
Right, that's a big difference between a 12 foot brick wall versus a 4 foot space and 8 foot though?
Correct. And I don't believe the space was defined. That was what
Well, an eight-foot wall needs correct footings to go in there. And you can't just... Correct. ...glue it on top of a four-foot wall that probably wasn't built to code along or probably was built to code a long time ago but not really now. So I'm just going to go ahead and say that it's very unlikely to be put right on top of that. Correct. OK. Any more questions?
All right. We'll get ahead and we'll open the public hearing. Do we have any speakers?
Yes, Mr. Mayor we do have one speaker and that is the applicant, Mr. Zion. And as this is a public hearing, the applicant does have 20 minutes to speak. Although I don't think Mr. Zion wants to take that long.
No. I'll keep it brief. Thank you, Mr. Mayor and members of the City Council. I just wanted to make myself available to answer any questions you have and do thank you for the opportunity to speak this evening on our project at 347 Moorpark Avenue. And I appreciate your thoughtful consideration with this process. I believe Mr. Newman did a clear and eloquent description of our project, so I'd like to thank him for the thorough presentation and I would also like to extend my thanks to everyone at the community development staff particularly Director Spindello, Deputy Director Burse, and of course Senior Planner Mr. Newman for their guidance and professionalism.
And I appreciate your time and I look forward to continuing collaboration with the city staff as we advance this project hopefully Thank you. Thank you.
1:17 – 1:263 turns
Mr. Mayor, would it be okay if we asked the applicant for clarity on the wall issue? If he might have some insights to that? Absolutely. Sir, would you like to come
back up? The pictures that you saw there, and I gave a 20-minute presentation last time which you really do not want to be subjected to. But the wall as it stands right now is a four foot wall and as the mayor said probably not to today's standards and there's no way to plump another eight foot on top of that wall okay? It's holding what it's holding now well but if we add that then it would change the foundation so the thought process there in order to get the 10 foot distance between the parking at the edge of the parking lot and the beginning of that wall, which would need 10-foot buffer per municipal code. It also holds our basin for the filtration unit, which is required.
Then the thought process was to entirely remove that wall and build a new wall. Of course removing that wall... And there is a full foot grade that's unique to that property. Now in order for us to remove that wall significant foundations would have to be made if the wall was to be placed at that location So yes, that picture would show a 12-foot wall going straight up and down. Those cypress trees that you saw on the neighbor's properties would have to be removed because there is no way to dig a foundation that large without compromising that particular property. The property just south of that one has Has a hard scape built up against the wall and the property just north of that property has that's the picture that you saw there with what what 12 foot wall would look like.
And it's it's an imposing wall, and as Councilmember Delgado mentioned. Because their house is already four foot lower than our property, which I think the idea to have that eight-foot wall to separate between residential property and a commercial property is for noise and for lights of course as they're going through. So just by virtue of having that four-foot discrepancy between the two would already mitigate some of them.
Both the noise and the lights as they're going through. Also, we feel that our project is small enough where there's not a major retail like a gym or shopping center where people would go in and out at all hours of the night. Basically residential with some commercial vacation on the front part of it. So, you know if it was all residential then we wouldn't even have this option but it's mixed use and so there is some commercial and that commercial would be an office space okay?
And whether it's a Donna's office or whether it's going to be some other professional architect That would be something that would typically service the public during working hours. So this is not going to be something that we'd be all hours at night with traffic going in, like say a 7-Eleven or shopping center where it's open and I could understand that. So building an 8-foot wall on top of that and maintaining, because the 8-foot distance would have to be from grade. So that would be 12 foot tall. So yes, if we build it that way, we would have to completely remove the existing wall and build it.
So the thought was, okay, you know what? We'll back away from that a little bit. As the mayor said, both aesthetically but also maybe functionally. But that wall is fairly old and we wouldn't want to dig any significant trenches next to it. We wouldn't want to remove and try to support that. And of course there are means to do that if we've got engineering in there.
Obviously if to make things, can it be done? I mean obviously there's probably some way and method that will do that. And I know cost is not something that should be considered in doing that but it would be quite a challenge to build a wall pretty close enough to the existing wall so we would have to back up quite a bit from the existing retaining wall not to compromise that wall And to be able to engineer an 8-foot wall on top of that.
Of course, that would decrease the distance between the parking lot that we have and the existing and the new location of the wall. Now, the 10-foot buffer of landscape can be 10 foot from before the wall or after the wall, right? Except that location also holds our basin. And the further east we bring that wall, the less privacy the neighbors would have from the second, from the balcony because as you're bringing the wall in, the line of sight changes.
And also as you approaching, the more you bring the wall towards Moorpark Avenue, the more I don't want to say in your face is that a wall but it clearly kind of brings it in. And then if we think okay what is the purpose of that wall really? It's to provide some privacy and some light and noise reduction for the adjacent. So it really benefits these three neighbors who were quite supportive of our project, which I've talked to, and were not opposed when I discussed it with them to that. One of the neighbors had concerns about having a live fence there.
He was concerned that they would be Critters living in there and potentially Creating a concern for him for that. Okay, so And then of course the city mentioned that a live wall would not block the lights as well as a Block wall and I'm not gonna argue that but I think with maturation if of course over time It would fill in and it would be a pretty good barrier.
Now, you know, reviewing it more with the city and discussing that, can we bring it back? We can. There will be compromises there. Of course we're bringing the wall. I mean anything can be built but the reason we requested this variance is Because we felt that the four-foot difference, which none of the other properties in that particular mixed use low have. There's one other property where the hay store has on Moorpark Avenue, which is further down north from our property. There's about a 12 to 18 inch difference between the neighboring property and ours And that property actually has two separate retaining wall. So a four foot is, we felt for that particular one is unique in the previous presentation and Mr. Newman can point out there are other properties in Moorpark that have a Grade and I didn't go to measure it one was mentioned at the last at the at the planning hearing by the Mission Bell Plaza on The side where the gym used to be in the movie theater, and I kind of lose like north and south over there because I'm not Although my office was in that plaza for years, the north and south was not really my bearings there.
But there is a residential area there and there's a great difference and I don't know what it is but that project having... There was a movie theater there, a gym, an Albertsons at the time when he was built. I don't think that matches in use to what we're building which is significantly residential but also too small commercial uses so That's pretty much the long and short of it, to request that variance because not just the uniqueness of the property but also the uniqueness of the project itself.
So we felt that having that alternative screening would still provide good screening. They would be probably less unsightly than a decorative block wall And still provide some privacy. Now, if the light is an issue we can of course mitigate that other ways by maybe placing a metal fence that's completely sealed to block the lights as opposed to the. I've got iron friends with live, so that could be mitigated.
But that's kind of...I hope that answers kind of your question and our concerns with building that. And that's why the picture showed 12 foot. But even if we back it up a foot, we can't really back it up a foot. We'd have to back it up significant amount in order to preserve the existing wall. So it's still substantially high when you view it from the other side. The four-foot grade adds significant amount of distance I hope that answers that.
Yeah, thank you. Any more questions?
1:26 – 1:3520 turns
Just out of curiosity, you mentioned your office was in Mission Bell. Yes. Would you be relocating your office to this?
That's our thought. Yep, that's our thought. We set a timeline on it but that's our thought and that's when we purchased the lot We came to knowledge that the Mission Hill Plaza is going to be converted to mixed-use property as well. And it was obvious because a lot of the leases were not being renewed. Cafe Firenza, and we slowly started seeing all of our neighbors basically in that shopping center disappear and not renewed. Of course, that's kind of the fate that we had as well. Lucky for us, we had another office Not too close proximity, but in Newbury Park which is fairly close. And we're able to relocate our patients to that while we are developing this project, but that's our plan.
Thanks for sharing that.
Thank you.
Mayor? Oh I apologize. Staff has one condition that we'd like to amend into the resolution to ensure that it's included. If you don't mind me reading that into the record, I'd be happy to repeat it if there's a motion to follow. But that would be prior to issuance of a building permit applicant shall revise plans to demonstrate compliance with section 17.32.040.C8 of the Moorpark Municipal Code subject to the approval of the Community Development Director. We just want to make sure that there's a belt and suspenders approach to ensuring this. That language also provides flexibility should that code section be changed in the future. Thank you.
Any more speakers?
No Mr. Mayor, no other speakers on this item.
Okay thank you so we'll go ahead and we'll close the public hearing and we'll move into discussion. So this project here just it really highlights the challenges of infill taking different uses higher densities existing neighbors different lots and trying to make that all work together I watched a planning commission meeting I thought that they brought some good points up I don't really see a whole lot of uniqueness in this as opposed to other types. The wall, I think that it's a little misleading just showing how the thing is just one big tall things. I know it won't end up being like that but I do have concerns for the neighbors in those areas. You've got apartments people living there One of the apartments down below, it's pretty much in a parking lot.
So you could easily see that filled up with a whole bunch of people parking hanging out there outside smoking cigarettes being loud at night. Then you have an issue with the neighbors too. So seeing a block wall and something like that I understand the need for sound mitigation also lights and all that. So I do see that. I don't see a reason not to look into making that work that way. What does everyone else think?
I'll jump in next. I guess I want to start with this is exactly what we want in our downtown area. We want a local business owner who's invested in the land, who's envisioned a project that will bring housing and commerce in a way that isn't likely to create huge amounts of traffic and noise and it could be revitalizing. And so I don't want us to be Discouraging unnecessarily to somebody who's coming forward and moving our city the direction that I think our general plan wants it to move in.
I'm not certain, and this all may be a moot point if We don't meet those criteria, we might not be able to do anything else about it. But if the neighbors behind and I'm...I don't have the certainty that I would need, but not that I don't believe the applicant, but that all those neighbors are saying yes, yes, yes, you know, we want anything but that brick wall, but if the neighbors that will be impacted by it And the applicant themselves all agree on how they would like to interface with one another. It just feels wrong that a city comes in and says, nope you guys might want something but we're not going to let you have it because we had this code that Impacts everybody so I have some empathy to that. The same time the code is written for a reason consistency as things get built out over time it's going to be important and so I think we have to consider all those different elements the counterpoint to all of those things that I just said is The land is the applicants to envision anything that they want there.
The code is not new, it was here all along and the project needs to be developed within the parameters so that it is successful on that land. As a business owner as a real estate owner I understand Sometimes it doesn't quite work that way and I have again incredible empathy. We built the project, it fits all our needs and geez this wall is just a hair off or you know the ordinance so I guess my point is I'd like to see if all the involved people come to an agreement of what they want. I'd like us to be flexible but if I'm hearing Mr. Newman right we really don't have any option to be flexible here. Is that correct?
Correct. We have to go by what's written in the code,
so... It's a good point. I mean obviously you'd want to make it so neighbors could work together and find the best ideas. However though if our code was whatever people decide in certain areas that would make that into quite the mess everywhere else. You know it's like if you can isolate this in a vacuum and handle it, it makes a lot of sense. It's just hard kind of looking at both sides with that one.
It's a fair point, Mayor. We're not Venice Beach. I don't know that we desire to be.
I completely agree with the...I feel like there needs to be like a common sense code as well. Sometimes things just don't align to whatever the five points are. As a homeowner, I would not like seeing Personally, an additional eight foot block wall behind me. I mean it would remind me of the freeway walls and it's not that we don't have a lot of noise mitigation in a project like this. I do love the project by the way. I think it is as Council Member Means said exactly what we want to see. I'm not a fan of the bottom floor residents. I would like to see them all being commercial but I like the fact that at least the two front-facing ones are commercial.
If there's nothing we can do, there's nothing we can do but as Council Member Means said, I would like to know what the actual neighbors have to say and if they're fine with the block wall then great
The wall still, it wouldn't be a 12-foot
straight up. It would be set back. Terraced and then... Right. But so they have their six foot wall and they have an additional six foot wall. You can still see it. The cypress trees are there too. Well that's only on one. On
that one exactly. There's two other properties. Right but when you say if you were to look at it as just one twelve foot freeway wall in your backyard... It looks different of course. That looks different but when you realize you couldn't build it that way, you'd have to set it back. It breaks that up a whole ton. Still very... And does give you the a sound barrier and what you need to have between commercial and...
I agree with that. It is still very, very intrusive structure in the sight line.
I don't think of the wall as a problem. I think it's the two-story building next to a person's one story house will be more of a problem
for me. But it's so set back like you wouldn't even see... The
problem with infill. You know? The problem and the benefits at the same time.
1:35 – 1:4022 turns
I'm going to agree with everything that's been said and the conflicts are real in this project. I'd like to remind you also that this used to be a service station, so those neighbors, you know, those properties with a chain link fence Had quite a bit of noise and traffic going on probably all hours. I'm not 100% familiar with what it looked like back then, but this will be of great use.
And, you know, if our hands are tied, our hands are tied. I agree that a common sense solution here kind of sounds like it would be great to come to and if our city manager could add to kind of what our restrictions are with this, that'd be helpful.
Yeah, I mean I think staff had already mentioned the findings of facts have to meet all those criteria and just legally it's we wouldn't be able to defend anything that would be outside of those findings. And that's really what is tying the city in terms of following the code and the findings for the variance since that's why that's the challenge. I don't know if that's...
Yeah has this gone through the City Attorney's Office at all?
So I certainly reviewed it when we received the agenda packet and those are the findings that need to be made. So if the council wanted to grant the variance, we'd essentially need to walk through and figure out how to make those findings essentially in the opposite right so There are special circumstances applicable to this property, and we'd have to kind of walk through that analysis to see if those findings could be made. But certainly staff has explained all the factual reasons for why they don't believe those findings can in fact be made.
Actually, I have one more question. How tall is the wall at the Moorpark market in that parking lot? Like is it going to match the 12 feet or 8 feet?
I don't have the exact height at the Moorpark.
I'm only asking because just based on the pictures, it looks like page 139-352 McFadden that that wall behind that neighboring commercial building is not 12 feet or 8 feet or whatever. It looks like 6 feet.
Thank you councilmember so that wall the neighboring commercial property is approximately it's at least 6 feet tall but on this property there would be a pop-up of the wall. So the wall along the subject property compared to the neighboring commercial property it wouldn't line up exactly So you're saying that the neighboring property is lower. So the, not sure what the regulations were at the time in which the neighboring commercial property was developed. So we're not sure what the requirement was for the wall height. However, the topography on that site it is a little lower on that commercial property compared to the subject property.
I guess my question is it's six feet lower?
Is the difference six feet lower?
That I don't have an answer to. I apologize, we don't have any reliable topographic information available. The subject property appears to be at its greatest point a four foot difference between the proposed site and the existing homes.
Not the existing homes. I'm talking about the neighboring commercial... To the north, right? Yeah. Unfortunately, I don't have any topographic data on
that. That is probably the same grade. It's
just with a six-foot wall. Right. That's what I'm saying. It just doesn't make sense to not make it consistent. You have this one neighbor who's going to have one wall for one commercial property and another wall for a different commercial property. They're going to be at two totally different heights and the commercial properties are at the same exact grade or very similar grades.
Again, the common sense code That's just my frustration with needing to fulfill five different criteria.
No, I understand. So you're proposing you make one wall six foot and then one
wall eight? And then all six across the whole thing? If the commercial structures are all on the same grade why wouldn't the back wall be even amongst everything? This Moorpark market is going to be open a heck of a lot later than the two commercial spaces as in a dentist office and another office. And I understand maybe residential might be up late but I don't know. The 12-foot wall just doesn't make sense, even if it's pushback, setback.
Where is the 12 foot?
Sorry, 8 foot.
Eight. Okay. Big difference.
Eight feet on top of a four-foot difference.
Oh, eight feet on top of a four-foot after a setback of probably 10 feet is different than eight on top of four. Yeah.
I was told there would be no math.
1:41 – 1:465 turns
First, I just want to pay sympathy for the applicant. It's a shame that we have to go through these processes. One of the things though that gives me some relief is over the previous years, we've been confronted with other citizens who wanted us to work around local state and federal law and we've had to rely upon the consistent application of either those ordinances or laws We're being fair to all citizens, right? So I think one of the things where I sit content is that it's unfortunate that if we move forward and can't grant the variance which it seems like we can't and there are some really good reasons as to why not.
That in the future we're applying that with the same adherence in this instance as we would others so that if nothing else our citizens and our business owners can take assurance on the fact that we're being consistent. I think that's really important. In terms of the trust and the community's ability to anticipate, you know, the kinds of investments that people have to make in this. And sometimes it seems like it's a little bit more But ultimately, the project is really important. I do want to also share... The reason I asked the question about the parking is wanted to share my appreciation for given the already strained impact of parking in the downtown area, the fact that the applicant has exceeded the requirement for parking not just what we have here but the flexibilities that could come across and being such close proximity to the station And then I wanted to build on Councilmember Barrett's conversation.
It has been a long time since that place was a gas station, even when it was a gas station back in the 90s, it was still vacant for some time. But I did want to bring that up and to honor the community members' feedback that there are circulation elements Yes, it was the 1990s and it wasn't nearly as populated as it was. But I anticipate that the circulation for this... Although there is some commercial there, I anticipate that there will be less circulation now than there was back then as if it was a gas station.
So those are my comments.
I just feel defeated for the applicant. I really do, and you're right. Consistency and fairness is important. It's why we have these excellent advisors that work so diligently on it. It's hard for me to sit here and say somebody who's going out of their way to try to do the things that we're looking to do, and for that, I have deep empathy for it. And I think we all do.
But if there's nothing we can do, then we've given it discussion. We recognize the problem and we're still I think headed back towards we can't make any changes and the applicant is going to have to figure their way through it perhaps disappointedly.
Yeah, look. I mean codes can always be changed in the future and codes need to work for us. It shouldn't be the other way around. We shouldn't be saying like well that's the code we have to deal with it. We can fix those things however at the way this works you can't just go and pull that right now applicant wants to build a building we want them to build this building This is a future discussion. I mean, this kind of highlights again like what I was saying before about infill projects you have codes ordinances and you have an infill which is blending your new codes and designs with what was there from 40 years ago when there was no rules for anything. And you might have some issues where you have a six foot and then eight foot one right next to each other.
It's like why can't we just blend those together? I understand that That's something that I think we should still always be trying to figure out how to constantly improve our ordinances and how to make these things work in the future. And I think we'll learn some things from tonight, but for what's in front of us right now after looking through everything, I don't see the criteria to grant the variance on this And also went through the planning commission and they felt the same exact thing. And that's their job is more, you know, focused on these codes and regulations. So with that I feel like we're kind of tied with where this is.
Anything else? Well, I'll go ahead and I will. I'll move the adopting the resolution find a project category exempt from CEQA approving mixed use plan development and denying the variance number.
And then Mr. Spandello you have that in addition to that as well. Thank you mayor
if I may quickly apologize for interrupting your motion I understand the desire for an off-ramp here and that the findings of the variance do not lend themselves well to dealing with this. But at the same time, we are moving forward a downtown specific plan update. We are moving forward a zoning code update. With your approval, I'd like to amend what I shared earlier.
attempts to address the wall issue and instead add the language, prior to issuance of a building permit applicant shall revise plans to demonstrate compliance with section 17.32.040.C.8 or downtown specific plan as applicable and subject to the approval of the community development director. And then at the time that the building permit is sought to be issued those regulations related to what this wall's required to be would be in place.
1:46 – 1:499 turns
So I understand that. Are we thinking that the regulations that are creating the situation may be
adjusted with the downtown specific plan? I think it's worth a discussion and at the same time if that doesn't occur an eight foot block wall would be required.
I would love that discussion because it gives
us an off ramp,
I like that. It gives us a chance to bring some common sense into some situations while still being fair Inequitable and probably discourages the applicant from Running out and putting a shovel in the ground today, but I think it's at least at least it's something build the wall last. Yeah
Right. Thank you. Mr. Spondella good input Okay, so that emotion as amended by mr. Spondella So we need to reread read that again or
Yes, so the motion would be to move staff recommendation But remove or replace condition of approval 14 with the following prior to issuance of a building permit Applicant shall revise plans to demonstrate compliance with section 1 7.3 2.0 4 0 C 8 of the Moorpark municipal code or downtown specific plan as applicable and subject to the approval of the community development director
So moved. I'll second. The motion is second, we need a roll call vote please.
Roll-call vote Passed 5–0 motion is second, we need a roll call
Show transcript
Thank you and thank you the applicant We pulled item 9a off so we'll move on to Presentation action discussion item 9B. Consider artwork design for Moorpark Library Children's Area, consider waiving the city's purchasing requirements pursuant to Moorpark Municipal Code Section 3-4-120 for library artwork. Consider agreement with Studio Y Creations Incorporated for a library artwork Consider resolution amending the fiscal year 26-27 budget to fund library artwork. And consider making a determination that no further environmental review is required pursuant to section 15162 of the California Environmental Quality Act or guidelines. Mr. Ball?
1:49 – 2:066 turns
Thank you, I thought that title would give me lots of time to get set up here and apologize.
A small musical interlude. Do
we need a break? Does anyone need a break?
All right, there we go.
I'm good now. I just wondered okay
Okay All right. Good evening, Mayor Enneagrin and City Council members. Also joining us remotely on Zoom this evening is Aaron Blondin, the Director of Sales with Studio Y Creations, the art studio for this project. City Council Policy 6.7 titled Public Art in New City Public Facilities requires that new public facility projects include public art as a feature of the design funding for Public Arts is allocated from the Art in Public Places Fund in an amount approved by City Council and that Art in Public Places Fund is made up entirely of developer-in-lieu fees for use exclusively for the Art in Public Places program.
We're talking about the new Moorpark Library artwork, and that is subject to this City Council policy. As you'll recall back on December 3rd of 2025, City Council considered the preliminary design for a collection of large-scale art elements in the children's area of the new Moorpark Library. And at that time, we also talked about the selected theme of the apricot tree and how that came about in part from community input during the library design development and how it ties in with the building's agrarian and barn-inspired architecture We also discussed the selection of Studio Y Creations as the preferred design studio for the artwork based on their extensive experience working on projects of this nature, creating family-friendly themed environments for high traffic public areas and their portfolio which includes numerous nature-themed environments with large scale kid friendly tree elements like those envisioned for this project.
So for this project I'm sorry for this presentation. I'll start with a quick review of that initial artwork and then talk a little bit about the outreach engagement followed and then fought focus on the additional artwork that is proposed for the library children's area. So this is the library site plan. All of the artwork that we're considering is located in the Children's Services area on the east side of the building there.
The first round of artwork included, there was a big mature apricot tree that extended out over the storytime area. In the corner there, mural of an apricot orchard that's extended on the wall behind and along the wall beside that large tree. And then we had three blossoming young apricots trees that wrap around the support beams in that children's area This was the illustration of that primary element, a 15-foot tall commanding mature apricot tree. The design includes three dimensional leaves, apricots, birds and squirrels that add color and interest and enhance the whimsical nature of the tree.
A hollow at the base of the tree and sculpted roots provide a variety of sitting and reading spaces for children to explore and enjoy. Complementing the tree is that mural on the wall behind it, along the wall beside it that would portray a stylized apricot orchard. And there are also a couple of custom designed fruit crate box themed seating elements there.
And then there are the young apricot trees that wrap around and disguise the steel support beams and form a row of blossoming young apricot trees that are reminiscent of an apricots orchard in bloom. They also feature birds in the branches for additional color and interest. And this is a more recent colorized version to give a sense of the color scheme and bring a little more life to the design. So on December 3rd, during that discussion, City Council expressed support for the design. However, council also expressed desire for additional artistic elements to create a more immersive and inclusive visitor experience. Staff was also advised to engage various council advisory bodies for input.
So in January of 2026, staff consulted with the Library Board and Teen Council and received a wide variety of input and ideas for making the artwork more immersive and inclusive. The Library Board members liked 3D elements that was suggested to include things representing children in the artwork Pulling the apricot theme into other areas, adding tree elements at the entrance and including other agricultural elements specific to Moorpark. The library board also had suggestions that were more of a programmatic in nature that could be considered as separate or temporary features to enhance the patron experience. This is things like having engaging Did you know displays and whimsical discovery prompt signage to showcase individual books, life-size silhouettes of famous authors and historical people that can be put on display and periodically rotated in and out.
Highlighting different times of the year, different holidays. They talked about digital displays to highlight books or authors or to engage with patrons in creative ways and all these suggestions were noted and would be considered separately. The team council also liked the apricot tree theme. They supported continuing the nature theme in other areas, including at the entrance with tree branches or other natural elements.
They liked the calm atmosphere, additional themed seating, including local animals in the designs incorporating traditional story characters and the artwork. Staff also sought professional input on the additional designs. A library architect was consulted more than once. They recommended focusing on artwork that supports the timeless nature of the theme, of the apricot tree and that complements the barn-inspired architecture. And they cautioned against overwhelming patrons with design elements, keeping the focus on the library and the books.
They were also instrumental in identifying areas where additional artwork could be considered, keeping in mind that the architecture is finalized and all the spaces in the children's area were thoughtfully and deliberately designed. So any additional artwork is limited to decorative items mounted on the existing structures. Let's see, others that we consulted included the Moorpark Historical Society and provided historical photos for reference. The library director was consulted and participated with the library board. And of course there were numerous discussions with the art studio throughout the process. And so based on those discussions, Studio Y has prepared the additional artwork design that's included in Attachment 2 to the staff report.
Oh, yeah. The new artwork is generally located along the south wall shown on the screen there in blue which we'll look at first and at the main area at the main entrance which is at the west end of the children's area All right, so the artwork along the south wall is generally organized into three areas. From left to right you have the early childhood room entrance and that naming is keeping in line with what the artist labeled those. It would really be kind of the entrance from the multipurpose room on the other side into that early childhood space.
In the center we have the reading cubby wall with built-in reading cubbies. And there to the far side on the right, we have the restroom entrance. This... Let's see. Oh yeah, we'll start with the early childhood room entrance wall. This photo or image, I'm sorry, gives a little perspective on where that wall is located. It's across from that mature tree and next to the apricot orchard mural that were part of the initial artwork.
So the artwork in this space expands on the apricot tree theme by presenting a historical apricot processing scene from the early 1900s. In the scene, farm workers of all ages are shown pitting apricots and preparing them for drying under traditional pitting shed. The artwork design was directly inspired by historical apricot harvest imagery from the Moorpark Historical Society. The apricot orchard mural on the adjacent wall connects directly to this design and it creates an immersive space that celebrates both the apricots and the farm workers that harvest and process the fruit during Moorpark's early history. The children featured in the artwork not only highlight the role that children played in apricot harvesting activities, but they also provide a visual connection to the children's area.
This graphic shows the artwork as a mix of three-dimensional and two-dimensional elements. The portions highlighted in pink, that's the pitting shed facade and the nesting bird and children in the foreground would be sculpted in three-dimensional relief The blue area would be a two-dimensional mural that completes the scene in the background. And there are three dimensional suspended mourning doves in flight, adding an additional fun element to the design.
Let's see, now we'll look at the reading cubby wall there in the center. This wall provides a collection of recessed reading nooks for children to use. The cubby wall is framed with three-dimensional sculpted barn bean facade and a background mural depicting the interior of a barn. The reading cubbies themselves are constructed wood to echo the wood accents elsewhere in this design and in other places in the library.
A sculpted family of California quail walking across the top of the facade and a woodpecker on a support post add animal elements and a touch of whimsy to the artwork. The design is intended to complement the library's barn-inspired interior architecture. And then moving to the west end of the children's area, south wall is the restroom entrance. This wall space sits just inside the main entrance to the children's area. The artwork frames the entrance to the restroom hallway and consists mainly of a wall mural and 3D sculpted relief of a young boy reading on a pile of hay bales.
This slide shows the components that are sculpted in 3D relief, in pink and the background mural in blue. It's important to note that for all the mural designs shown in the preliminary artwork they serve as placeholders and don't represent the final mural artwork while the mural in this particular design currently depicts an apricot processing scene it's envisioned that in the final design this artwork would depict an agricultural landscape Again, inspired by historical photos with final graphics developed at a later date. There's also a space on the opposite wall from this that is designated for a complementary mural that will continue that natural landscape on both sides of this space And so the artwork in this corridor is intended to serve as a transition from the main hallway, introducing the agrarian themes, drawing people in to see the rest of the space and those big tree elements that would be seen beyond.
So we've looked at the south wall, now we'll look at the main entrance to the children's area which sits next to that restroom wall just off screen here. On the site plan it's located at the entrance from the library central hallway. And the artwork at the main entrance to the children's area features stacks of vintage fruit crates that frame the entrance, accompanied by sculpted farm animals. Important crops from Moorpark's history like apricots, oranges and avocados are represented on labels that decorate the wood facade. And other significant crops like walnuts and lima beans are represented on sculpted sacks atop the crates.
Three-dimensional farm animals including a chicken, rabbits and border collie add a playful aspect to the artwork. The dog is deliberately located at a lower accessible height to create an engaging photo opportunity for visitors. The crate design wraps around the entrance portal so around the walls there so the artwork would be visible from both the exterior and interior of the children's area And the artwork design celebrates the agriculture that drove Moorpark's growth during the 20th century in a lighthearted and engaging way.
And then finally, we have this solitary barn owl that would be located up in an inconspicuous space with the idea that it might not be seen immediately but would be a fun surprise element when it's discovered later. So overall, the new artwork supports and expands on the apricot tree theme. It is intended to create a more immersive and inviting and timeless visitor experience that celebrates the city's agricultural heritage, complements the library architecture and inspires the imagination with engaging art elements. As with the initial artwork, most of the sculpted elements are hand-sculpted out of expanded polystyrene foam hard coated with a KidSafe proprietary urethane that provides a durable layer of protection from scuffing and scratching.
They're hand painted covered in a protective coating to enhance the durability and make it more vibrant easy to clean and reduce fading The fruit crate facade at the entrance includes real wood panels in the construction which add an aesthetic connection to the reclaimed wood paneling that would be used in other areas throughout the library interior. The custom murals are printed on medical grade vinyl, it makes them durable easy to clean and resistant to liquids microbial growth, sculpted elements and murals are covered by a limited lifetime warranty covering defects in materials and craftsmanship. And Studio Y does provide support for clients so if something's damaged you can reach out to them and they'll work with you on repairs or if a mural gets damaged they can provide a custom patch for a nominal cost.
Let's see... The Arts Commission considered the additional artwork. Go back. The Arts Commission considered this additional artwork for the children's area on April 20th and recommended the designs that are shown. They did have a handful of suggestions, including adding a 3D facade around the restroom entrance portal, adding a barn cat and an egg carton to the crate design at the entrance, and incorporating vintage-style crate labels in the design.
With council approval of the artwork, consideration would be given to incorporating some of those suggestions And in that case, the next step in the process would be to contract with Studio Y to finalize the design, fabricate and deliver the artwork. The total cost for the artwork as presented including shipping is $552,130. It's important to note that the contract does not include installation, which would be handled by the library construction contractor. There may also be some minor architectural modifications that are needed to accommodate the tree canopy adjustments to lighting fire systems and minor relocation of the book stacks to meet ADA clearance requirements.
Costs related to those elements would be determined pending the final artwork design. Although the standard artist selection process wasn't used for this project, Studio Y's qualifications align with the Art in Public Places guidelines whereby the artwork is designed by artists and it's an original one-of-a-kind work of art. So therefore staff would recommend that or request that City Council waive the city's purchasing procedures pursuant to Moorpark Municipal Code Section 3.04.120 and authorize a city manager to sign an agreement with Studio Y Subject to final language approval by the city manager. That total contract value would be $607,343 which includes the artwork plus a 10% contingency for unanticipated expenses.
The current available budget for artwork for the library project is $338,500 therefore a budget amendment appropriating $268,843 from the Art in Public Places Fund is requested to fully fund the contract. That concludes my report, and staff is available for questions as well as Aaron from Studio Y. Thank
2:06 – 2:1213 turns
you. Any questions of staff?
There's a lot and stop me if I don't want to take over. So with regards to Studio Y, I know that they have a very niche thing that they do with all of these specific types of materials and everything. Was there no one closer by that could do anything like this? Just the seventy five thousand dollars in shipping is seems very extensive
You know, we did an extensive search for somebody that had the capabilities that we needed for this project. And we actually reached out to the consultant who did the Arts Master Plan and asked them if they had any recommendations They didn't really actually recommend reaching out to a design firm to do it. We looked through our artists list, looking for artists that would be capable of doing the work.
There are a couple of online arts listservs that we went through and We came up with a list of you know over a dozen Capable firms. We researched them all this was the one that really had the best resume and Provided the best options for specifically the tree element that we're looking for and that's always been part of that design for the library artwork was was having that tree there in the corner. So based on all the research we were doing, this was the best firm that we could find to provide it. And it's kind of critical that we have a firm that is familiar with doing projects of this nature working around construction projects because they're going to have to time it to be delivered on time and in a way that can be brought in and installed around the rest of that construction.
So this is something that this firm specializes in. And we also reached out to references, they got great references everybody that we spoke with thought they had nothing but good things to say about the process their flexibility as far as working with the client And the end results got a lot of comments about how it was really good bang for the buck as far as the cost to value of what they provided. So there was a lot of thought that went into selection of artists.
Thank you. And you had mentioned the installation cost was not included in that, so do we have any idea what that additional fee would be? I assume it's not part of the original construction budget and where we would be taking that. You will come back to us with another ask, I assume.
Yeah. That would come out of the Art in Public Places Fund.
That would come out as well.
Yeah, that would be part of the installation But I think yeah at this point we still need to finalize the design Then they take it and they do the structural drawings And once we have a better idea of what exactly is going to entail to install this then we would take it to the library contractor and get a quote for that installation
I've got two more. Is that all right? I don't want to take over, okay So as far as so you We're taking or you're asking for four more. So what other I know we have other projects that were considering for these funds including potentially the bike racks the What are they called the utility wraps Potentially the archway over a high street, you know possibly in future the High Street Art Center and Will removing these funds or using these funds for this additional artwork take away from any of our future projects?
Yeah, Council Member, I mean with regards to the Arts in Public Places funds those projects you just mentioned like the bicycle racks on High Street would be using the same source of funding. So they're all sort of pooled together so Obviously, allocating funds for this project or those other projects you mentioned. There is a limited source of funding there now as our future housing projects do come online we do receive arts impact fees that could help replenish the funding source to be used specifically for these types of projects.
So it's going to be my next question with Hitch. I think you had mentioned 2028 might be their first builds. Do we have any idea how much we would be starting to get that year or for future years? And would it replenish this amount?
Director Spondello, if you can estimate. I don't know if you have that offhand in front of me?
Yeah, that's a challenging one our art and public places fee is set at 1% of the building valuation and You know it's hard to extrapolate for Hitch Ranch But I would think it definitely reasonable that we could recover the proposed expense here through that project and beyond
Thank you
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I have a lot of comments. I don't necessarily have questions for
staff. OK, cool. Sorry go ahead Mayor. I know we're anxious to get that you have a question? I
do have some questions. Thank you for the presentation. Definitely a lot in here. One of my concerns is with the murals I understand there's a coating on them, but if somebody was to graffiti them or take a sharp object and scratch them, do we know? Or if we just decided that we wanted to refresh a wall five years, ten years down the line. Do we have any idea what those murals would cost to either repair, replace, or adjust?
When I asked about repairs and replacement, the process would be take a picture of the damage and then you'd send it to them. And they could actually because they've got the design, they could actually print out a patch for that and then you can have that installed back in. It would be virtually seamless in there so my understanding is that would be a couple hundred bucks to get a patch or something like that. So those kind of repairs That's what I was alluding to, is they're there. They'll work with you and help you maintain that artwork. I think the bigger murals depend on the size and shape.
And I don't know exactly how that breaks down.
And I apologize. I didn't prep you for the second part of that question, did I? I brought it just now. Part of my reason for asking is the way this has been quoted out, murals get wrapped into a $116,000 expense or $112,000 expense and if we wanted to change those murals Add additional complimentary murals to other walls as we expand and continue to grow the art inside the library. What type of cost are we looking at? I wish I had more detail, and it sounds like you don't have detail on the mural specifically if you wanted to enhance that.
There's a question mark in there somewhere, Mr. Ball.
Yeah. No, I understand your question. I don't have the information to be able to give you just a finite estimate. Now, I do know Erin with Studio Y is with us on the phone. I don't know if she can give just a general sense of what the cost would be for kind of a representative mural or something like that? Hi, Erin. Good evening. Thank you for being with us.
Hi, can everybody hear me okay? Okay. So when you're looking at the cost of the murals a majority of that cost is actually for custom art time so we do not buy third-party clipart all of our art is created by our artists in house So it's the hours that go into being able to create that artwork. We do have a pre-designed library of murals that we've used for other projects, but the murals for this particular project are murals that won't be anywhere else and so that's where that cost is coming from. Obviously, product for the vinyl itself is also a part of that cost but that's where it comes from so if at any point let's say you wanted to add additional murals to other walls that are not a part of this particular scope one we have the artwork already because we're creating it in-house it's a matter of either creating additional artwork to continue that scene or move forward If it's a matter of let's say printing another section of something that was created already for you, the cost behind that will actually be less because now there's not additional art time that's going into printing and providing those additional panels for the mural.
When it comes to, and I just wanted to address this while I've got you guys here. With regards to damage, I think it's really important to understand the work that we do outside of amazing libraries like your own. We are in pediatric healthcare as well as a lot of family-focused spaces so our murals 80% of the time included in our projects, whether they are in rec centers, museums amusement parks. Hospitals pediatric health care spaces pediatric dental offices so I will say in the 9 years that I've been there it's very rare that we end up having to do any sort of repairs or patchwork on the murals themselves. The amount of time that's spent within these spaces, though it could be an hour or two within the library. The kids are truly, the kids, the parents and people around are truly so taken by everything that's in there.
There isn't a lot of time for them to sort of you know nitpick and do those things picking at the murals. Never say never, but just keeping that in mind. You'll also notice where the mural is from top to bottom there is in certain spaces cabinetry that's where the mural will stop especially with where the 3D is situated. There's lots of areas where the murals themselves aren't in some aspect accessible to the kids in every spot. So that also helps to minimize the amount of damage, quote unquote, that could happen to the murals should you know that occur.
>>:Thank you for that clarity and the additional comments. It helps a lot. To further my question, though, on costs with the murals, it sounds like the artist time is a lot of the cost. Is there a percentage of or can you give us... I'm good with numbers. A 12 by 12 mural, artist's time is $1,000 and printing time is $200. Is there any sort of scale so we can better understand how much time is being spent on artist time? And then as a follow-up, a Part B to that question.
If we were to have images that we wanted used or if we had an art contest in our community and we actually had Moorpark artists that were developing the murals and still went through you guys to have them printed and installed what type of cost reduction might we see while supporting our own local artists?
So I would say offhand, that would be difficult for me to be able to give you. I'd need to take that to my production team just to find out what the cost would be because the other thing is is that we'd have to take the art and then we have to curate it. So it's not just necessarily a matter of taking what's already been created and printing it. We now have to refine and curate the murals. So I would just need to take that to my production team and find out from them The hours that are spent and required to be able to do that.
So, that's sort of that part of it. And then again also with the breakdown between the cost of product and hours I would also need to get that information from my production team.
Understood and I appreciate, perhaps we'll need that information or perhaps we won't. And then last question that I have and I think it probably comes back to our team here, our city staff team here. One of the takeaways I had jotted down from our last council meeting is that we were going to investigate Animals that had a brand associated with them, with reading. Whether they're in public domain now or if there's entities that own these brands that may allow us to use them with a letter and an approach. Can you talk a little bit about what was discovered in that process so we understand why we don't see much of that here today?
Yeah, maybe I can add some to that question. We took that, I mean that was a request of the City Council. You know and also the request of the City Council is to take this to all of our other commissions and boards. And we kind of looked at you know what was kind of the reoccurring comments that we got because there was as Chris mentioned a lot of different comments about what these embellishments should look like Some of the reoccurring themes that constantly came up was things that were common in Moorpark, especially animals. That came up many times.
Our Arts Commission was very concerned that any animals we had were birds you would find in Moorpark and animals you would find in Moorpark Agricultural practices common in Moorpark. Expanding the apricot through the library and agricultural theme, we heard celebrating the children of Moorpark that worked in these fields And so we kind of, you know, we looked at a lot of different things and really what it came down to was it was really about Moorpark. Moorpark came up a lot and so, you know, we had so many different ideas we kind of abandoned that idea. And we looked at it as, we're providing animals or providing birds, we're providing other elements in this thing.
Does that element tie in with what we were hearing more often? And we didn't really feel that it did. The other thing we took was, you know, we actually, you know, we took that to our team council and we asked them specifically that question. What do you think about that concept? And I believe the mayor was there with us. And they pretty much told us they did not like that idea. It was, they thought that we should be really focusing on again, the agriculture and the nature of the design. And that's kind of why it got abandoned.
Not to say that it couldn't come back but that's kind of the approach of how we got to where we're at so...
Thank you for the input. That's all I've got now.
I have a question. The first meeting we had on December 18th, we looked at the trees. What was the cost to put the trees in? In the kids' area? The pillar covers and the tree in the storytime spot before we went onto the
added... There's one mural involved, I think on the screen it's the green. Are you asking about that too for my clarity?
Was there a mural on that one? We didn't
see it.
Yeah, we had... You've got the three trees around the support beams. You got the big tree over the storytime area and the orchard mural behind it and alongside it. The total cost at that time for that artwork was a little over $250,000. $253,140
2:24 – 2:3831 turns
So $253,000 to get what we got at the last meeting. Now what is the cost of the additions on this?
Well the additional art. Well we're up to $552,130 so it's gone up by about $300,000. It's
going up by $300,000? OK. So my question is if I were to look at the quality of the first presentation I can justify...it's all too expensive for me anyways but you can justify the cost of that. Why is the addition more than the original one when the addition is more like a stage prop
Aside from the fact that it covers more space and there's a lot more sculpted elements into it. And based on my understanding, all those sculpted elements have a cost component to it. All the little animals, all the little details, that's all hand-sculpted, hand-painted, hand created. I think that adds a lot of the cost to it. But, you know, I might invite Erin to add any clarification on that. Because she can...
>>:Yeah. I want to hear more from them because like, I'm not an artist. I can make the second part. I can't make the first part. The first part looks a lot harder to do. So could you fill us in on where the cost comes from with all the muraling as opposed to those intricate trees?
Yeah. You're speaking to me, yes?
Yes.
OK. So I
look
at the screen and
you can see me here but you can't.
OK yeah so I can understand when you look at the scope when you're just visualizing it that it would appear that the scope is less than what the original scope with the trees looks like as was mentioned in your breakdown of costs about $100,000 Give or take a couple thousand. The 100,000 of that is your murals. There was well over 1,000 square feet. I think you'll have to... Chris, you know what the square footage of that is. I don't have it in front of me at the moment. So you've got that square footage and then again to speak to what Chris has mentioned everything that we create is hand sculpted, hand painted and takes hundreds and hundreds of hours to create. Your project in itself with just sculpting time will be over a thousand hours.
We have a dog who, with the fur because the fur is not just a painted detail it is quite literally a sculpted detail to add the dimension to its fur. The sculpted barn pieces, the hay, the children, the books All of those pieces, including the tree and the three, the four trees. Everything is hand sculpted it hand painted so where it might look like it. would be sort of easy to put together. It does take quite some time, there's a lot of intricate detail that is put into all of our pieces.
Obviously we take pride in the fact that we are able to create these realistic beautiful pieces that really should be considered more like artwork than you know just sort of like a prop. It truly is a work of art that is intended to last for the next 20, 40, 50 years for as long as you would like it. We've got clients who have had their 3D pieces for well over 20 years and are more than happy with the overall Aesthetic of it and what it's done for you know their visitors young visitors and families. And just to add one last thing, though this is the children's area, the one thing that I will say about everything we do in every place that we've ever had the opportunity to create these pieces. It's enjoyed by not just the children, the parents love it people of all ages.
Find something about it that they really love. And so I think that once you've seen it and once you see it, you'll understand where and how the expenses come to be.
Thank you. Any more questions?
Do I have a question? Is there a question mark at the end of that sentence? Do you want to think about questions asked? Understanding the passion point for the hand sculpted and the thousands of hours and the hand painted, does your organization have other options if we wanted to 3D print and have something more mass produced that brought the cost down significantly where we could reinvest those dollars not in art Custom art pieces As you as you suggested we look at them, but I see we have Ken razor in the back of the room But we might have some people that are talented in the local area. That could still have that same Environmental impact feel without doing hand sculpted Cost Associated the question where the question mark is Do you have other options or is this the only way that you and your firm are able to provide artwork to us?
So because of where the 3d pieces are located anything that is in that is in reach of children's hands, you do not want to use 3D printed pieces. And that's strictly from a longevity and durability standpoint. If we were to 3D print anything it could perhaps be the owl up in the rafters or the birds above the early childhood area but everything else that is lower to the ground. The polyurethane top coat that goes over top of everything, it's very similar to the material that goes in the back of a truck, is incredibly durable for the purpose of if children want to come in and kick the hay or the tree or any of those pieces.
It will withstand that it's you wouldn't even know it so I would long story or long answer longer. I would say no not for this particular project
Okay, I appreciate that. You mentioned the owl in particular and I'm just trying to get my arms around actual costs for individual elements. Could you give us an idea of what the owl will cost to be hand sculpted and hand painted versus you'd mentioned maybe that's the one piece that could be 3D printed? And I didn't mean to make it sound like it had to be 3d printed but create a different way.
What would the cost difference be in that particular element alone?
So I wouldn't be, because and I apologize. I'm not the in production so I wouldn't be able to break that down for you. The cost between from my understanding anyways of 3D printed to sculpt is not significant but I would be more than happy to look into that for you if that was something that you wanted to consider.
Okay we'll see if the discussion lends itself to needing that but I appreciate that you'd be willing to get that for us thank you
I do have one question for Studio White. Could elements be designed, such as the owl for instance or elements characters in the tree? Could they be designed and be movable like where there's you know that they insert say into a peg obviously nothing that a child could touch within reach but they could move around in some way? Like someone got on a ladder, moved that character somewhere else.
Is that possible?
Well... Sorry okay it's not that I don't so the characters themselves will not be in the tree for instance when we when the installation is being done They do need to be added into that particular place, wherever that placement ends up being based on the schematic that's provided when those pieces are delivered. Theoretically could it be moved? Yes. But are you thinking that you would want to put it somewhere else or are you worried about somebody stealing it?
No I'm thinking more if you designed it in a way On a system where you could, you could move. You know now the owl is over here and now there's a squirrel in this tree whereas a bird in this tree. No because it's
built when we build it and design it We've designed it for the squirrel for instance to be on one specific branch So when it's being sculpted, quite literally when the steel pieces are put inside because the tree itself is going to have a steel skeleton inside that will also connect with some of those branches. It is deliberately made so that the squirrel goes here, the bird goes in another specific spot. So no, not for the way that you've described it. I mean, I guess we could build it that way if that's something that you wanted but Usually no.
OK. Chris, are you going to suggest we put real animals in there? No. You'd be the one to do that. Sponsored by more heart farms. Any other questions?
One last one. I want to go back to my question regarding other projects that we currently have in mind. Knowing approximate costs right now of certain items, do we have enough after this if we were to approve this? Do we have enough to move forward with the other projects that we are already talking about. I'm not talking about future projects that we don't know of but I just want to make sure we have enough to fund ones that we've already spoken about.
Yeah, I mean Council Member Nogata. We have a few cost estimates on a handful of them but there's a large number of projects that you mentioned earlier that we haven't gone out to bid for. I want to say also the High Street Arts Center conditions or any improvements that would be made there. You know, we would still need to estimate and bid out. So it's difficult to tell you what those other costs are for their projects. The ones that we sort of know are probably the bike racks just because... So the least expensive
ones?
Yeah. Because we had discussions on that and kind of vetted through that process but the other projects that you mentioned are yet to be estimated or bid out.
And what will our balance be if we were to move forward with this? For the arts fund
Yeah, I think we have I think 3.9 Chris and then minus So maybe three point two three point three is still remaining look at the fiscal impact
yeah, I mean current estimate fund balance is about three point nine million so You know three take two and a half out of that you know
And maybe if I could add a little bit as well, you know historically we have spent about $150,000 on public art projects. You know the artwork at the Police Services Center was about that cost. The artwork at the North Metrolink Station was about the same. So that's a lot of projects for 3.9 million. I know we've also talked about some bigger projects, maybe an archway over High Street.
We've talked about wrapping utility boxes. We are looking at some interior artwork here at City Hall. We've also got $200,000 set aside for some exterior artwork at City Hall here in the future. We talked about the High Street Art Center We're not really sure where those costs are gonna come in right now But we have a fair amount of money And you know the only project that I can really visualize that Wouldn't fit in with our current budget would and then we talked about maybe some bridge enhancements Outside of the city on the freeway. Now, you're talking ten millions of dollars But I think most of the projects or, you know, probably all of the projects that we're considering right now that we've spoken about. We've spoken about through our CIP process and things like that.
You know $4 million is a lot and I think it would fit within that budget. What our city manager also mentioned before though is we also have a lot more money coming in, you know 1% of housing costs on a 750 Unit housing development coming in is it's considerable amount of money. So
2:38 – 2:474 turns
Anything else good Sure, okay All right. Do we have any speakers?
No Mr. Mayor, no speakers on this item.
Great. We'll move into discussion. All right. Now begins the fun. Mr. Barrett, I think you want to say something? Go ahead. Absolutely.
Yeah. So last time we met we gave direction that we were OK if we needed to increase the cost and you know but increase the cost for a specific intent. Right. We wanted it more. We wanted it more interactive. We wanted it more engaging I don't feel we got that. I think that what has been shown to us is very appropriate if we are doing a museum and it's not, it's a library right? And there can be elements of history I think are very appropriate in the library so don't get me wrong but I think that the library, specifically the kids area of a library needs to inspire kids to want to read.
Right, it needs to engage them. I did watch the arts meeting. I did watch the meeting with the library board. Unfortunately the teen council was not recorded so I wasn't able to see that. There really wasn't any discussion. The staff reports for both of those kind of already Said like the the characters thing was out because of potential copyright issue that was written in the staff reports so it wasn't a Discussion at all that came up in those meetings I think there were some great ideas that came from those meetings particularly Ola Bateman's idea of projecting You know potentially names of kids. It was discussed you know maybe even like when you get a library card your name could be projected on the tree in some way. I think you could even take that a step further and you know if you read five books, you could go report it to the librarian and your name shows up on the tree for the next day or whatnot right?
And you have that interactive element that shows there. I also met with the children's librarian here at the Moorpark Library and asked her about what What engages the kids? I mean, I was there this morning. I was reading to the little kids for story time and she said anything that is sensory play, right, like that's what engages I'm If you had bubbles up in the tree, and every hour the bubbles run for two minutes. And that excites someone to want to come to the library and I've got to be there by 10am because it's bubble time And now I'm in the library, and I'm engaged. And I'm reading books. To me those things that are exciting and interactive are completely missing from this design.
The children's librarian also mentioned that they have binocular kits that they rent out. She thought it would be a great thing for them to be able to check out your binoculars and you could go find characters in a tree, in different areas. And that could be a fun thing. That's where I go with the idea of potentially if they're movable. If it's made to be movable... Obviously we're not going to move them all the time but maybe it's quarterly or something where you could move some of those elements around so that those kids, when they come back to the library, now they're looking for, oh, where is it now? Where's the bird now? Where is the squirrel now?
Or if you went with the storybook theme, right? You know, where's Curious George? And I think that there...I really believe that there's ways around the copyright issue. That I don't see that as the limiting factor. I think that projectors could also be used in a way, we talk about this entrance and coming through and we're doing these murals on the wall in order to walk through but what the librarian said is that every week they have a different theme right? So if it's farm theme for the week They put out their display and they put out their books that are related to the farm.
And those books fly off the shelves, that's what's popular right because they're embracing it everything that week that they're programming And it's about farms. Now, the next week might be about dinosaurs, right? Wouldn't it be great if we had projectors that came down projected onto the carpet, right? So when you look in, you're seeing the dinosaurs. Maybe it's footprints that come through. But it's different. Next week, it'll be something else, right? That creates that engagement. I want to go see the library. What is it going to be this week?
I heard the theme was going to be that. We've got to go check it out, right? And you have those interactive elements that change that again relate back to the books, relate back to reading. You know we're trying to inspire kids to read and I just don't feel like we've done that so far with what's been created. I think there was even a concept that was thrown out at our last council meeting, you know where you have the flying birds and then they kind of turn into the books pages and they trail behind To me, that goes more towards books. What we've created here is more historical and frankly a little bit boring I think for a kid's children's area. I want something that is engaging, that is memorable, that people even not from Moorpark that they remember The Moorpark library, right?
We're spending way too much money on this library. I want it to be memorable, right? This is something that can really make an impact. I was speaking with one of the commissioners and I asked what they thought of the library or these designs and they said well, I didn't really see any issue with it It wasn't, oh my gosh I love it. Wow! I'm excited. It was...I don't see any issue with it. It's fine right?
I don't want fine. I want amazing for what we're paying and what we're doing here. It's mentioned somewhere in the staff report about like Easter egg elements. And I don't, I didn't really see that and you know it's not final you know as far as the murals and stuff but like when you're looking at the empty barn with the cubbies that has, yes it has some quail at the top but like where's the little mouse in the corner you know going into their hole?
You know why an empty barn? I just... It's boring. It's not exciting. Yes you can put a horse in there and I think that would be better but I don't even know that it doesn't I read Llama Llama this morning, right? Like you could have a llama. Again, relate it to the books. Bring it back to the books. That's where I'm struggling.
2:47 – 2:585 turns
Right. Chris loves it. So Dr.
Castro? I have some comments that are more intended for the broader concept, but I do think that since we're kind of reverse engineering the conversation, I'll start there. I'll start at the granular level and hopefully we can work our way back toward the policy and governance level. Council Member Barrett as you were talking, I was thinking about the distinction between an immersive environment and something that's entertaining. And I think that that's a really important concept for us to consider, are we trying to create an immersive environment or are what we're trying to do to supplement what the job of the librarian to do is to create programming? Because almost everything you talked about The immersiveness of this would not in any way take away from the programming elements that you're talking about.
You know, whether we use in some other area of the library a projector or we have screens or we highlight student readership like all of those things what I didn't hear is how any of those would make this exclusionary in anyway so I think it's important that as we go through this conversation We talk about, are we trying to create entertainment or are we trying to create time and place? Because I think that's an important distinction. And we've talked about in other areas around Moorpark that when you are in Moorpark, you have a particular feel. You have a sense of who we are, where we came from, what our history is, where we're going.
If that isn't... if that's not what we're trying to accomplish in the library I agree with you 100%. This approach is wrong. Because if we're not trying to create a sense of time and place, who we are, what we're about, regardless of where you come from when you were in Moorpark, you're a part of this. You're 100% right if we're trying to create entertainment and flash.
And no sense of this is who we are, but we do want kids to be... Again I'm going to come back to the concept excited, right? That is, I'm not saying that they are mutually exclusive but I do think it's an important substantive conversation that we have to reconcile before we move forward because otherwise what I already hear us doing is focusing around the things that are going on around the library rather than focusing on what the experience of being in the library is.
So for example, like if we were to move through this conversation and just for a moment put aside all the small pieces in the characters that are really in my opinion additive. So what would the library experience be if we forget all the tiny little pieces of things that are all around the library? Because we can add to those later. What are the things that we want someone who's in the library to experience? What is a key takeaway that we want them to come away from? So I just think that's really important. I'll stop there because I have a lot of other concepts, but they're more about What I thought our intention was to try and create from a connectedness level, there was a...
I think Mr. Ball you used the term something that's timeless in nature and that sense of timelessness if that is...I thought that was the direction we wanted to go but if we're not trying to create timelessness You're here because this is what's current. We would need to take a very dramatically different approach in my opinion.
If you don't mind responding to that a little bit, I don't... This is the children's area right so you know as far as the library my understanding is there will be historical photos through throughout the library and some other areas. And that they'll be you know some some elements of our history and in our time I'm and I don't I don' an element of that, I guess. I feel like it overtook this area in my opinion.
Flash and entertainment is not what I was trying to go for as much as inspiring kids to read. Children's area inspire kids to read. What gets a kid excited? And what makes them want to come back And I think the idea of changing elements, right? The idea of it's different tomorrow than it is today. In some way, gives that sense of anticipation. Right? And not necessarily flash and entertainment but you know what's going to be there now I'm here and I'm getting books because that's the library intention is.
Yeah I'll just respond briefly. I don't disagree with anything you're saying other than the fact that when I hear you The comments that you're making are more aligned with library programming. And that is what I think we, if we're talking about library programming and I think that's a very different conversation than when we're talking about design in terms of time and place and what our intentions are for everyone who comes into the Library 2 experience because the things that you'r saying I don't think are exclusionary from whether it's this design or some other design those are programmatic elements that I agree with you You would want those things, and you would want them regardless of how big or small our library is or how much money we spent or didn't spend on it.
I'm in 100% agreement with you. And there are ways to accomplish those things. But I don't think that if we're having a conversation about programming of the library, then that's not this conversation. That's all I'm trying to say. Yeah?
Yeah, I want to hop in. So both make really good points. And I can agree and disagree both here. I think when we're looking at art as part of this to do the programming parts of it, like interacting a slide and coming down from the ceiling. That's going to get my kids to go there and ride that stuff and not do any books. I don't think we have to have the art being the super interactive part of everything.
But, I think it's about education really. The library is a place of education. You want people to go in there and hopefully the books will be interesting to read because if they're not then what's the point of making a library? We just have a room full of art stuff to play around with. It's basically a jungle gym and a nice beautiful park which we have lots of those. So we don't want to take away the idea that this library is an educational spot.
So, to break down some of the things I saw on this and from the last meeting... The last meeting, we all kind of looked at the trees. And I thought we were all kind of in the same idea of these trees look nice like they look nice but we want to see more. We want to see it maybe carried throughout the building more in the kids area. So when I opened this presentation up my first got it I was thinking I was going to see more of that kind of theme throughout the building, maybe in the front area, maybe more in the kids' area.
But instead what hit me like a sledgehammer was children's pediatric doctor's office which scares the heck out of me from the past. It's Mental Health Awareness Month and I got traumatized by going to the dentist when I was little. And I saw that right there at just the dentist's office And that's not at all what I was thinking we're going to be getting out of it.
Then we get into the cost of it, to put those trees in...I saw the intricate nature of those trees and whether you like them or not they do look kind of classy, they look nice. Now if you were to ask a four- or five-year old what they want to see Without prompting them, you're not going to get trees. You're not going to get any of that stuff. You're going to get like a storm trooper riding on a dinosaur or shooting a laser beam. Like you're gonna get that which if you want a library where kids are gonna want to go to it, give the kids a blank check for $500,000 and you will get the library that every single kid in the nation wants to come to and it'll be weird looking.
It's really weird looking. I mean, it might be kind of cool actually. So I saw that as nice but then the addition to it...I looked at that and I was thinking like for almost more money for that I could go on a high street art center and say guys can you just give us a nice wall finish here? They make great stuff down there and it wouldn't cost anywhere close to that so I understand it takes a long time to whittle these things out of foam and all that, but do the kids care about that or they want to have something that's immersive and nice and entertaining for them to actually be attracted to go there? I know it's hard to say that with like, you know, artists put a lot of work into these things.
For this library, it's not an art gallery. The library is a library. It's got to look nice. It's got to be entertaining. It has got to be very unique and I don't really care what it takes to get to that point. And I think that's the part we're having issue with. Other thing I want to say is that when we talked about this last time, I felt like we were going to go down this road of design by council which I feel like we're going to be in there And that's never a great idea. I mean, we start seeing it like well how about we put an egg here and how about instead of this we have this? And now we have book characters and then oh, I want this book character. I want animals instead.
I think that's going to be dangerous to get into it. I was hoping we'd just get to the point where we could just take that theme and kind of create it around the building, but I don't think we're seeing that at all. So I'm kind of just dumping all the things that are in my mind right now. You guys can sort through them. The characters thing...I know some people like the idea of the characters Art is very subjective. I don't like that idea at all. I think it's kind of tacky, you know?
The idea of moving animals around...I think that's an interesting idea. I know my kids love going to Trader Joe's because you get to find the shark and it's always in a different spot. That adds something to it. But that kind of goes back to programming. The library can do those things, you don't have to have the very expensive carved owl being moved around because I hope we don't ever drop that thing because it's going to cost an arm and a leg for that.
I'm gonna stop there and let other people hop in here because I can probably keep talking.
2:58 – 3:053 turns
This is a good discussion When I when I looked at it, I first saw it. Well, I guess I'll start with this This is the children's area of our brand new library. I think is our showpiece This is what we are building towards and I am not opposed to putting this money into this facility I think we should I. I go I will always go back to what are we getting the most for the dollar we're spending if that's a $10,000.
Owl because it's hand sculpted and crafted sitting in a rafter and designed only be seen on your third or fourth trip. It's so high up, you can't see the detail. Let's replace that with a $100 owl or whatever it might be and it's a barn owl because that's around here but Harry Potter had snow owls and I hear what you're saying about don't be too cheeky But for a kid to go in, and a snow owl could theoretically be in this area on occasion as it was. I checked it. An unusual occurrence. Cool. Have a barn owl there and a snow owl there. And the kids can go in and go oh, Harry Potter. I was reading it. And for $100 we can switch that owl out to whatever the new cool thing is every year for the next 100 years and still be at a better price point.
But my initial impression when I liked it is, I liked it better. I liked it better with those other elements than what it looked like before. I do feel that it is more immersive and more complete in the environment that we're driving for. I don't think the dollars we're spending get us there and I do think that What this particular advisor contractor we have maybe they're the right people for the trees and not the right people for the rest of this project because digital arts are arts theater arts or arts so when you talk about screens and we talk about images being displayed it those.
those artistic functionalities allow for programming, but we have to have the device, the foresight to see that digital art, that digital projection needs to be built in a way where the projector isn't seen because it's hidden in the build-out. So from what I got from our conversation with the Question Times is they have very specific things they do Sounds like extraordinarily well, but if art means sculpture and mural and we want immersive inclusive and lending itself to Interactive I think we need to be exploring other types of arts to enhance it. Maybe it's not this round maybe we come back and we add to what we're doing because I think we're gonna hear from From city staff that we are up against the time crunch again And I hate that we find ourselves in these positions where it's like oh Well, it isn't what we would have had if we had more time.
But this is our library. This is our showpiece. I want to make sure that we get this right. I absolutely hear do we want it to be a sense of place or do you want it to be entertainment? I don't know that entertainment is the right word but I also don't know that education is the right word because education Except for school districts that are run by council members aren't isn't always the most compelling Oh get me to that location because I'm gonna learn it's If you go to an environment and you're there And then you find yourself interested in curious that curiosity leads to the thirst for knowledge and education so having a environment, that is a sense of place and Gets kids to say, oh I want to go back there. It gives them the opportunity to learn and grow.
I personally—and we're not trying to come up with certain elements, I'm not the artist—but I personally with this layout thought, oh what would be cool is if we had a tractor in the middle of the room where somebody could go sit in the tractor's driver seat and read a book or maybe they don't read a book Maybe they climb up there and they look around, they get a different angle at things. But that goes with the theme and supports an engaging touch-feel sensory type of experience in the library that doesn't take away from what we're there to do. We're there to bring people in, get them to enjoy, get them to be excited about going to the children's section. This is not speaking of the rest of the library.
And then when they're there, they're stimulated to find that book that might be about tractors or something that changes digitally that inspires them to go look at different elements and different book types. So the reason I like the characters that are familiar is because it might inspire a kid to go look for that character somewhere. Or, I read a book and then I saw the owl from the book. And if we can get those costs down to where those characters—whether they're branded or otherwise—are not thousands of dollars apiece but they're dozens of dollars apiece...
For a $10,000 owl, I think I could probably get 100 different animals in the whole But if we bring some of those costs down, we're less focused on being show quality art. We're more focused on being experiential. I think we can trim this budget and have more impact that we're trying to have. Everyone
else said a whole bunch of stuff. Renee, you're
up. I just wanted to hear what everybody had to say. I totally love all of your ideas and as Dr. Kester said, I don't think that they're mutually exclusive. I think you can have all of those things and those would just add so much to what is being created now. That being said, at first I liked it but like you said, I wasn't wowed by it It does kind of remind me, now that you're talking about it, of like a pediatric background wall and like a waiting room.
So I do want to see more. And the trees were really wow. They're very 3D. They're very intricate. And this one wall feels like it's... While it has 3D elements, like very little bit of a bump out. Like it's still kind of 2D to me. I would love to see more 3D actually sticking out of walls. I don't know how else to say it, but I do want to see more wow for that price point
3:05 – 3:1915 turns
I'd be curious to get a contractor to come and look at page, I guess all the pages 205-206, page 6-7. With that pop out of the pitting sheds if a contractor came in and built it with actual wood as opposed to hand crafting polyurethane parts and hand painting it I guess a fraction of the price. And if we don't like it in a year or two, we could replace it because we have all that extra budget left over that we didn't spend to have the right type of foam and $100,000 worth of shipping it to our area. So I think there's different ways to accomplish it.
Certainly. It's not cost efficient, obviously. That's why I was saying the trees make sense to me. This other one... I mean give me a couple hundred bucks and go to Home Depot and we can get this done. I'm obviously embellishing it a little bit but like you know it does not stand up to the wow factor in the classiness of that first design. This is totally not that. And like I know dentist offices, you know, put this kind of stuff in there everywhere. I remember...I can see the one from when I was little and it looks very similar. It wasn't a farm but, you know, that's not the kind of thing I want to see in a library. Now with the scene, those were actual pictures of like the apricot pitting areas that they turned into the cartoony ones and add the kids into it too But you know, maybe it's not necessarily a kids area thing.
I mean if you ask me coming from like engineering and that kind of mindset, I'm like oh let's make a museum out of it and show technical how all this stuff works but You know, I'd almost want to have a colorized photo of the actual thing, you know Sitting in there instead of having a picture of a farm background, being able to show your kids like this is actually what happened in Moorpark. Those are real people that were in town doing this. Now I don't know if that's very entertaining. If you're going to stack that up against the pirate ship at some other library, I don' t know if kids are going to say let's go to the historical one and look at that versus riding on the ships kind of thing but it just gets into what is our goal here? Is it education?
Is it a wow factor? Is it like, are we building this art as our big statue to show that our library is cooler than your library kind of thing. There's a lot of different ways you can take this and I think the problem we have here is that we specced out the design of that tree. That's what we wanted to see in there We have a company that specializes in that type of art, but then we said we want to do other things. If they do other things, they're going to use that same style of art to do the other things like you know the wooden beams and things that you can do totally differently that don't cost nearly as much. So I guess, I want to ask you all this question here.
Is everyone good with the tree theme? The trees we had before? Do you like all those ones or do you want to go back and rewrite this whole thing? Personally, I love the trees.
I think there's more to that. And if I may, I specifically when I was making my comments was talking about this children section we'd put focus on the children section. I have visited dozens upon dozens upon dozens of libraries and you've all had to listen to it and our city clerks had to document it But what's really cool about going and having those experiences is you get to see what other libraries do outside of the children section. The children sections that are compelling are active and filled with patrons, and the ones that are plain and respectful of it being a library Art, that is what I've experienced. Now when you get outside of it many libraries have collections, rotating collections, artifacts and when you're talking about what if the engineer in you has the mechanical pieces and a how-to on how it works Having other elements of the library where we actually can display collections, whether they be roving or on loan.
Or if we as a city had that mammoth find and gave it away to another city. Securing that in return, I will leave up to you and your ski mask in the middle of the night Mr. Enneagren but if we have great artifacts that are donated to us how cool to be able to display it and part of this art and collections inside a library might be display pieces they might have a mural talking about our history honoring and Dr. Castro's brought this up before the people on the faces that made us what we are. I don't know that has to be in the children section But what a great way to invite people into like to walk in be interested I like to think of it as you know, oh man. I showed up so as entertained and now look at me I'm learning right? So you walk into the library and you look in the display case then it talks about our history And we have those component parts when people learn and develop and the next season it changes over but we have to facilitate the funds and the ability to show art and in order to let programming do those sorts of things.
So outside of the children's area, I'd like to see a collection place where we can fulfill some of that.
Yeah and also we're going to look into you know the differences between what's there between an art installation and interior decorating because they're both art. I mean this is all art even the architecture of the building is art in one sense. And I heard the architect I guess their comment was not cluttering it up too much so you don't take away the elements of the inside of the building This building here, we're not working with a windowless box from 1978 or something. This is a beautiful looking building inside there so even that is a part of art but if you were to go to a sculptor and ask them to build you art for a library it's going to be a sculpture design. If you go to photographer it's going to be graphics design.
If we're pigeonholing us with a style of art for this that we see as a different type of a thing, then we might have to kind of truncate this and go for that big piece that we were looking for. If we all like the trees... And I can agree. I like the tree part. I think it's really nice looking. But if we want to do something different, we can go inspect that out separately too. And if we want to come to it with an idea of what we wanted to do That's not really here for tonight. That's more of like an ad hoc committee type of discussion to move that on and kind of rehash that, but the timelines... I know there's timelines on this.
I feel like I've been burned in the past knowing that there's a timeline and then wishing I could go back in time and change some little things. And we're spending $37 million dollars on this library. We're going to do it right. So if it's not gonna be done perfectly, then fine, we can wait a little bit. Now, I don't want to take forever and just go around in circles deciding what character to put or not put in there and what kind of owl it should be.
But I think if I'm hearing everyone the second part of this whole thing is not working for anyone. The first part seems to be working so where are we going to go from here?
There's value to opening the library with elements that The trees are great, but with elements that are enhanced. I want people to be wowed from the beginning and sending it back makes me nervous because Well, I agree with you let's get it right we're spending a bunch of money. This is our showpiece in Moorpark If we keep if we keep pushing it down the line how many years do we go? How many children pass through that age? And don't get to experience anything because we as a council are making a decision still. So I agree with your sentiment, I just wonder if there's a way to do some of this that could be built upon as opposed to just scrapping the entire phase
two? The other thing is that the wall with the facade on it, we didn't really see any ideas from the interior decorator of what that wall looks like. And it looks like almost if we didn't pick this, it would just be a blank bleached out wall. But what is the intention of that? Because the cubbies were an element that was going to be part of that before.
Mr. Mayor, before we move on, you've asked a couple of questions and I wanted to make sure that I weighed in on both. The first one was are we OK with the tree design? Yes, they're beautiful, right? But I want to apply the same critique that we are applying to other portions of the children's part of the library and then also potentially outside of that. They're beautiful but they were boring, right? Like if we are saying there is not enough pizzazz, we have to get people tied in here Trees are boring. So I just want to apply that same critique, like what is our vision? Because if our vision is we don't tolerate boring, we want pizzazz, we want attention, you know, trees are probably the wrong way to go.
So, I just wanted to say that. They're beautiful, they're stunning, I love them.
We want dinosaurs
though. But if we're not trying to have a nature element and tying it A specific design piece because the council has a vision for it. We probably should rethink that too, even though they are beautiful and I like them. The only other thing I wanted to make sure that I said was when you started to touch on this a moment ago regardless of the 3D elements in whatever the 3D elements are and how far they protrude or don't protrude The one thing I wanted to make sure that I said was that the, if there is a mural and if that mural is based in this case the history of Moorpark. And I shared this with staff. I just wanted to make sure that in that process there's sometimes a tendency to either sanitize or cartoonize those images. And so I would just ask that if it is a priority of ours, and sometimes it feels like it is, to have a nod to the history of Moorpark that we lend or lean more toward the authenticity of whatever that image is to ground us in whether it's in the children section or another section.
I'm not really talking about that right now. I am just talking about Whatever visuals that we have, if they are grounded in Moorpark, that they're more authentic than not. That they are more grounded in who we are than necessarily trying to evoke something other than the fact then this is who we were. So I just wanted to make sure that I took a moment to say it. Thank
you. Yeah, I agree with you
100%. If I could comment on the tree element, I think what especially the large tree, what it does for me, it does have That interactivity, right? You can climb into the bottom part. You can sit on some of the roots, right? So it is kind of creating that environment and it's more than just a mural on a wall. Now, the other trees are kind of hiding the beam so they're a little less interactive but I agree. I think they're beautiful.
I think they still have some of that interactive, some of that element that could be fun even though they're a tree.
Yeah no the log part or the hole you can kind of climb inside, that's fun. That's an interesting part but I think that is interactive but Dr. Castro I mean you're right to look at like when we talk about Pirate ship libraries, rocket ships and then trees. Like if I tell any kid what to pick you know what they're going to pick obviously so it's hard to make trees necessarily like a Chuck E Cheese or anything but you know I'm not sure how else to make it more fun unless you...I asked my son the other day I said what do you think about this? This is the kids area and he said oh that's really cool I like that you can climb inside there Yeah, but there needs to be more so you can hide inside these trees. There should be a ton more of them. Okay well that's going to cost a lot more so thanks for your opinion but um...
But you know that's kind of the idea like if the tree thing wasn't necessarily boring it was that it just needed to be more of it and I kind of thought that before we had that discussion. It was one nice looking tree in the corner but like I think more coming out. And I think we had an idea about the log you can climb inside or sit on. I didn't see that on this one, but I think that's the way you would actually enhance that more.
I just remember three years ago or four years ago, however long it was when we were discussing climbable things that one of Jeremy's responses was that it wears. Then it becomes like playground equipment and you have to keep replacing it and we don't necessarily want the library to be a playground. So I do like the hiding. I do like the ability to sit on A route, but I don't necessarily know about like recreating a pirate ship or rocket ship or anything like that. That's very climbable and usable as more like a playground versus nooks
The delicate balance between immersive, interactive and wear and tear. I think we could probably debate that. I could fall on both sides of that one. We're talking about trees in the fun or not. My comment there is, there's something fun interesting about the outside inside. And so you go into the children section it's not a room. You expect it to be a room. It's not a room because there's cover above you and so I think that there's... Well I didn't... I'm not sure how to classify it as fun. Oh good look! There's leaves above me. There is an interest level that I think is Is appropriate. Encouraging it's not a pirate ship it's not storm troopers that idea I didn't hear you go any further with it but but I like it and I support whatever you're going to.
Yeah I think it's like if you want something that kids can interact with not necessarily riding on climbing honor. And the pirate ship in Camarillo is behind it, inside of it.
3:19 – 3:3416 turns
All the shelves, right? I mean it's not again. It's not a play place as much as it's the bookshelves and on the outside. It says pirate ship right so
if we go the other direction back to digital arts if we look at the high street art center and the Display screen that they put in That was there was placed it enhances the entire production and experience and feel So is there a place where you know the the Nook has? Electronic version to it. That doesn't that might feel like programming because you could turn something on or change it up but But we in order to facilitate digital art, we would need the ability to either project or display those images
I don't want to lose that I think when you get into screens though, this is kind of like the place you don't want. Right? We're workers. But where you project an element it doesn't necessarily move or change. You know, we're doing projection all over the place. But if there was projected footprints from the dinosaur say because it's the dinosaur time, yes you can say it's just I'm talking about programming but that programming in order to do that you have to actually plan for that and it becomes art as well right? Because It's an image, right? It's just a changeable image. But if we don't plan it now, if we don't do this during construction, then good luck getting that projector up there. Good luck hiding it and making it look appropriate, right?
So I think that needs to happen now. That's not something that's going to be easy to add down the road.
Again, don't disagree. I think it's additive and I think it's important. First, I want to make a statement about children in general. What I worry about is underestimating the intellectual and creative capacity of children. So I'm just going to use for example the Museum of Tolerance. has everything that we're talking about, but they're in distinct places for distinct reasons to elicit different kinds of emotions and thoughts in different phases very purposefully. And so I think about here we have Underwood Farms, right?
Farming and this idea of being connected to the earth and animals, you know there are very few farmers left. And yet Underwood Farms is a draw for people from all over. So if it's just an issue of farming is boring and being around things that are farming in nature is boring Underwood Farms probably would not be as successful as it is. There has to be some appeal to it that draws people and children to that. So if that isn't the direction we're going, we need to be clear with staff about that because otherwise we start to design around the edges as opposed to what experience... And I'm gonna come back to that immersiveness What do we want people coming into this place to feel and to think about and to leave feeling and thinking about Moorpark?
As opposed to like, I love the fact that we use Camarillo and the pirate ship as an example. It's perfect because when you go to the Camarillo library Everyone makes that association. What I'm unclear about is what is the association that we want people coming into Moorpark, experiencing our library and leaving and telling people? That's what I'm concerned about because I don't hear us saying that. I hear us saying these are things that we want people to experience but that is not where we're spending a little bit of money or a lot of money What is it that we want people to remember about us? That's the thing that I'm not hearing. And if that's important for staff to have as we, you know, if we're sending them back to the drawing board, for them to know how this design should look and feel whether it is digital or very 3D or a little bit 3D, I think that's really important.
That's a very good point. And I think, you know, when you look at that like Camarillo is not full of pirates. So why is there a pirate ship in there? Because it's cool. That's the only reason why. But if we're looking at, you know, High Street and our city, it's unique. It's definitely unique compared to every other city around there. I feel like there's a lot more unique soul going on in our city right now.
And with the library architecture in general, it's this modern building with this tie towards older agrarian kind of themes on there. So I kind of go into the literal sense of like yeah, I'd want to show more of that past, like the heritage of why Moorpark is unique? Why is it special? A lot of farming, a lot of people that We live in this city, we just started. We're all farmers and that's the main part of this whole thing.
So I want to see that throughout the library and I don't wanna see the cartoony things. I wanna see actual pictures of people now whether that's in a kid zone or somewhere else it should be somewhere in there but I also think that you know having the elements are nice colorful trees and those things but blended in with Some education on it. It's not I don't think it's very boring as you're like, maybe I'm just boring. Maybe I'm just too Technical on that but a second that motion But I can see myself like going there sitting with my kids in Climbing inside the tree pulling one of them off the tree because they'll try to climb it but also showing them Like hey, this is like this is kind of cool. This is how the city was started This is like that spot over there used to be These are people actually picking fruits and stuff.
And I think to get that, you can't wash it out with renderings of that. You don't get that. It's like you look at a picture someone draws and it's like okay, that's cool. That's an artist depiction of what happened but when you see an actual thing, it's way more meaningful. And I like being able to tie education into that because I think that's important. The whole point, like I said before, the whole point is you want to educate kids on what's unique about our city but also make it to where it's comfortable and fun and immersive. So I don't think we're going to necessarily find something that's going to be this crazy exciting thing where you're gonna go to library just because we have a cool rocket ship or something. I think the programming on there is where we're gonna get a lot of that I've gone to a bunch of the programs they do.
They're really fun, you know? My kids love doing them and I think those are things that are going to help us with that. The bubble machine...I don't know if that's great to put a whole bunch of soapy bubbles on paper books and stuff but I like where your head is at.
They're doing it right now. I
can tell you. It's the old library. That carpet can't get any worse, so it's okay. Just saying. But you know, there's a difference between art installation interior decorating, and programming. Which one's art? They all are. So with this we're kind of looking on more of that art installation part of it but there's still a lot more to come that we haven't seen. Irene go ahead sorry.
Just to kind of reel it back in a little bit as far as direction I feel like we did ask for more and I feel like we got a lot like there's too much of not enough If that makes sense, like there's a lot of just, you know, a little dullness. So I would say if we pick out some of these elements... Like I like the haystacks. Maybe we make the haystacks the nooks, the reading nooks. That maybe we make them more 3D so that it's not just, you know, like six inches maybe. It's 18 inches and then the kids can sit on those as just like they are on the roots of the trees. Just pull out some of these elements and maybe not have a full mural in the background. I just feel like it's a lot. We went from nothing to a lot but it's dull.
And like you said, it's kind of characterizing or characterizing the history. Maybe we just pare it down, A gets the cost down but B makes what's important more interactive and gives kids places to go and sit in B. Yeah
I see a big scope creep from the first part right? A big scope creep from the first part to that and then now we're trying to pick out parts of that like... I mean, I personally think if we all like the tree itself and we like the trees how they cover the beams. Those designs and we're good with those. We really like those pieces. I'd be OK with going forward with those. But the rest of this whole thing, we've got to spec that differently because I don't think any of that stuff works at all.
Now if you said you wanted to go back and redo the whole thing, I could do that too. So where's everyone on that?
Give me direction for that. You guys were talking about the farm theme obviously. Love farm theme. I can get behind a farm theme but an empty barn I can't get behind. That now if it was all beautiful orchard Right like kind of what's behind the tree as far as a mural throughout the whole space. I actually think that could be really pretty and then Councilmember means have the idea of like the tractor right like in that and I love the idea of the tractor I think that could be you know, and to me that's a better use of studio Y funds than 3D elements on a wall and
With a hand-sculpted tractor, I would just park a real tractor in there. That's going to cost a lot less and be really
authentic.
Since we're revisiting this, I've been biting my tongue for a while. We do have to acknowledge that as fun as it is to think like we could just hand pieces of this off to local artists or you could Pull out because I know you're super handy. You know, like this has to be durable and there have been several comments about like well what if in five years we want to redesign this?
That was another thing that was troubling me earlier which is are we trying to say that there is some permanence to this or is this just an area that is expected to change all the time? And that's one of the things that was bothering me a little bit earlier was If we're designing for permanence, then we need to design for permanence. One from an esoteric component but also from a an investment in the things that we want to be immersive right? There's you can't have both. You can't put something up with plywood and expect that to be there in the same way form without a lot of maintenance ten years later or five years later like it needs to be expensive and the quality that I can't remember her name what she was talking about. We have to We have to commit to investing in whatever it is.
If it's a tractor, great. We all commit that tractors then we need to pay for that to last time because we are committed to this being something that connotes a sense of permanence. If that isn't our intention then that's where I say then we're, in my opinion, we're going about this very wrong. If we want this to be something that is turning over every few years then we really are approaching this in a very inconsistent manner And I want to make sure that we're applying the same lens to the trees, even though I'm fine with the trees. I think they're beautiful. I think they're gorgeous. I think we should keep them. But we were just saying well, I'm good with them right? But that was a critique earlier where it's like well somebody said I'm okay with it.
I'm fine with it. So is our intention to be good with it and to sit with it or are we excited about it and are we proud of it And if we're proud of it, then we should be able to say that. You know so I just want to make sure like if we were saying It's good and good is good enough or are we saying this is what represents us in Moorpark? And we want other people to be a part of that because if they're taking away a sense of I don't know, contemplativeness and we're okay with that. A sense of peace and time in place and we're good with that then then we should be good with that.
And I just want us to be consistent because as we go through these other design elements we may not have agreements but if overall if we have agreement with the entirety of the experience then that's what we should be going for
Right. I like the trees, I think they look really nice and I think the other part of this kids area we don't really think about this part but it's for kids but who is bringing the kids there? Parents and as a parent I don't want to sit in what looks like a overwhelmingly colorful daycare center kind of a setting. I wanted to look at least little nicer too so I think the tree kind of blends in both of those.
It's inside that should be outside, that's kind of fun. It does look nice and I like those beam coverings. They really take a boring beam and turn it nicely into a tree when you have other beams exposed to the ceilings too. The rest of it though, I haven't seen what the rest of that was intended to look like because there's an interior designer. That wasn't going to be just a blank sterile wall but now all of a sudden this is part of that too. We should have had an idea before of what was gonna go on that wall Like if I saw
that answer do we know if we don't build this 3D pop out. We don't put the murals up that have now been proposed what was going to be on that wall? Yeah,
I could kind of fill you in but let me Let me try and move us in a direction. I did want to talk about timing a little bit, but let me answer those questions first. So along the cubby wall we have cubbies. Those were already designed by our interior designer so that wall is pretty much designed. The wall going into the multipurpose room is pretty much a painted wall There wasn't a whole lot of embellishments there. It was an area that there could be some future artwork or something put onto that wall.
3:34 – 3:5030 turns
A solid color, or some sort of?
I think it was a solid color on that wall, I'm pretty sure. I don't quite remember but it was just a painted wall. But a lot of this discussion and I think the mayor kind of nailed it is that I think a lot of what we're talking about is interior design work. We're kind of moving away from some art work when we start talking about reframing or using digital type of media and things like that, that's something that we would be working with our interior designers with versus an art company that does art features.
And so, what I'm kind of gathering from this discussion is that the concept in general is good. I think we all like the trees and those will be made by an artist but we need something more. Something that's really going to kind of wow children We actually talked about the tractor idea. We thought that was a really great idea Especially in front of the cubbies because we already have tables and chairs there but a lot of Constraints that we have is that It's actually a pretty small little room.
You know, I mean it's we're not building this ginormous library. I walked out there the other day and we're almost ready to go vertical just so everyone remembers that but it's not huge and so when we were talking with the designers There's got to be, if we're adding elements within the library there's a lot of space constraints that we have to be really aware of. We've got book stacks, we've got aisle ways, we've got certain clearances we've gotta meet and it just, the children's area isn't super huge is one The bigger rooms, it's only a 17,000 square foot library.
So you're not, you don't have these massive spaces. There's no way we could even consider a ship right? So there's some limitations on space that we would have to really get I think our interior design team together to really talk about any kind of wow factor that we would want to add. If it was a tractor, how is that going to fit inside the library? And what are those space constraints so you know thinking through this and and you know What I would kind of recommend and you guys can think about it. It's just Moving forward with the trees, we've got to get this library built.
Literally in 15 months we're going to be walking into a new library. Our schedule with our artist to construct these trees is pretty close to that time frame. They got about a three-month period where they're going to have to do CAD drawings and structural drawings and get these things fully designed, which by the way still have to come back to the Arts Commission and come back to you for final approval. And then they go into fabrication, which they're out about nine months. So we're literally right on that time period. I would suggest that we move forward with the trees and get that ball rolling.
and then maybe forming an ad hoc committee of a couple of the City Council members. And having another discussion, bringing in our interior design team really kind of talking about some of these elements that seemed popular here and really trying to decide what that next big thing is. And it may be going back to the artists and saying hey this is what we want This makes sense. This makes sense with circulation, it makes sense with the seating needs that we need and all of these other things and having that discussion. And maybe we can get there at the same time but if we don't, we'll still have these great trees, we'll still have an interior that's already been designed by interior designers, and it's things that maybe they come back six months later to finalize those designs.
So that's my 10 cents.
I'm fine with moving forward with the trees. I don't just like, I do love them. I think they're great. You're fine with them or you love them? I love the trees. I love the trees. I think I'm okay just moving away from this second portion now and like Jeremy said maybe coming back to interior design and seeing what they have to say but moving forward with the trees that we get those in
I find myself extremely disappointed and dismayed with that. It might be what we have to do, and what a pity that we get to design a library building any way we wanted it. We'll spend all the money that we have, thousands of dollars per square foot. We get to design the interior any way we want it. We're going to use art funds that are designed for this showpiece, and yet, well, that's a limitation, this is a limitation, and now we've got a timing limitation, What could be sensational because the process has dominated and I feel like that's a real shame.
Do you like the tree or not? Because if you don't like the tree, then we can say that and we can go back and tear this thing apart and go again on it because sure, the library is going to be built pretty soon but ten years from now whatever we choose is going to be there I'm fine doing it right. And if everyone says they like the trees, I like the tree. I think it looks really nice. But if everyone here said it's not enough for me, I'd have no problem saying rerun it again. >>:I believe that I'm on the
same page as what I think I've heard which is I think the trees bring the outside in It's got a historic reference and we can build around it with other artistic pieces so I'm not opposed to the trees that we have. And I think that Jeremy makes a great point that maybe what we're talking about here isn't an art studio but interior design or maybe a mix of both. You know, I like the idea of a tractor or something like a showpiece that people can You can experience with, again what a shame that we don't have enough space to do that if we don't move some book stacks or however. We could've had anything we wanted and here we are. Let's get rid of the books then and put more tractors in there right? I'm not endorsing that!
But my final comment is whatever we end up doing in the children spaces that I've been in and dozens and dozens of libraries that I've been in Plain walls, single color walls, white walls just suck all of the interest out of those rooms. So murals or whatever it is and maybe an interior decorator has a better option for a mural that we can put up than having it handcrafted but I would strongly encourage us to make that space to not sit on. We're going to put the trees up and we'll figure it out in three or four years from now. I'd strongly encourage us to figure out how to make that space have a separate feel. And we haven't gotten to it, and hopefully when we revisit this, because I think that's the direction we're going, we will talk about it.
But I would like to talk about investing into the other parts of the library, areas where we can show art and collections in some of those artifacts. That's a great way to bring history into it and really bring those things alive. It allows for programming to go wild with the things that they can put on.
Yeah, I think I agree with what you're saying. I understand the frustration on it What I was kind of getting at was that? I think the tree is nice I like that tree part of it Is it enough to create that place in your mind what you think it is as some wowing awesome immersive thing maybe not alone I don't think it's gonna do it by itself However, I can separate that as a part of this thing that I do like. I legitimately like that tree.
The rest of that wall, it cannot be a blank white wall with a picture on the side of it. However to solve that problem, the weapon isn't necessarily sculpting art. It can be photo. It could be graphics design. It can be interior decorator. So I think we got to take that wall because it's kind of not...it wasn't really part of the original scope in the first place. It was more just that tree We're going to take that as a separate thing. So my question now is, are we confident that putting an ad hoc committee together or going through the interior design person? Are we confident that whatever we can enhance on that wall will complement and go with that tree theme? Or are we going to find some idea that is awesome, that it's now going to obsolete that tree thing?
Because if that's the case, needs to be rethought. I feel that a tree can go there and we can build off that with whatever else we need to do whether it's more of those same type of sculpted trees or a different type of a thing altogether. But what does everyone feel about that because we don't want to get caught in an issue where We delayed it, made a terrible decision or we just made a decision because we're stuck with the timeline. And then now a year later no one cares about the timeline and the delay they care about the bad decision we made so... I believe that the
trees can be built around and that they are a feature in themselves that can be enhanced around it. I do think that's there So long as I look at this budget, I am not concerned about the $300,000 being invested into the interior of our library. I'm concerned about us getting the most bang for the buck out of that $300,000 and giving our community the library that they deserve. They walk into it and they're proud of it and go oh wow look at that so if we get to deliver that to our city By taking some additional time and going through the ad hoc, I don't think that those trees take away from that at all. I think it's a foundational piece.
Right so my direction if you'll agree would be to accept the trees the spec we got in the first part of this design here and then put an ad hoc together to handle the rest of that part also I know we're talking about the children's area, but if we're going to start talking about designs that we got to look at incorporating that throughout. So I think we are really get into the interior designer and what the plan is for the rest of the building and how that's going to interact with it. And maybe even getting into some of the programming parts that interact with the types of visual experiences we want to see in there.
Does that make sense? Okay. Who wants to make the kill? Go ahead, Chris.
If I may, I just wanted to check with our city attorney. I don't think we can select an ad
hoc. No, not now. We'll put it on a future agenda as I meant. We'll have to bring that back, correct?
Just a point of clarification too. We can absolutely certainly create a new ad hoc for this. I did just want to point out as well that we have an existing marketing ad hoc I don't know if that would want to be something to consider, but that already exists. But of course if there's other people interested in this new ad hoc, then certainly... Do we need
to consider that or can we consider that tonight? Or do we have to wait for another council meeting to make that a thing?
Well, that marketing ad hoc already exists. It does impact the Arts in Public Places Fund and there's already projects like mentioned this evening that does involve that arts fund but because it already exists I mean I think you could make a decision to have that ad hoc be the one involved in this. Other than that you would then have to schedule a future council meeting to appoint a new ad hoc.
If we have to wait until the next meeting in order to select an ad hoc, it's just kicking that can. We've got...if they're willing to do it, we've got capable people on the marketing ad hoc and I would happily hand off all of that artistic imagination and design work and hand it to the marketing committee. I think it's a good...marketing ad hoc, I think it's good suggestion.
I do too. I feel like we're on the same page with a lot of this stuff, and I think you're doing a good job so... I'd be OK with that. You too? OK. Excellent. We've got an ad hoc committee. Don't mess it up. We'll also have a long discussion again.
So for the motion, we're going to go back to the original tree concept and move forward with the large tree and the three apricot blossom trees.
There's
also
an orchard
mural included in that green I think that the orchard mural should fall, you know with with the larger discussion You know, I mean there will be a mural of some sort but I think the you don't depending on if we went with the different muralists pretend potentially or something through Through that discussion that those those need to tie in Would you guys agree with that?
I guess it depends on whether or not being phase one and we already paid The design company to get their artists to spend $10,000 to design a mural. Are we committed to the dollars that we spent on the green section? The phase one, Mr. Ball? There was a question mark there too. I'm not sure you found it. I don't know
where I put it. To date, we have contracted with Studio Y for the design work to the tune of about $11,000 for everything that's been done so far.
But if we were to say, we only want to do the blossoming trees and mature apricot tree by the storytime area using the verbiage on attachment three. We could exclude the orchard mural and not be out any additional dollars.
Yeah, I don't know just if I could chime in. I don't know if Erin's here still. I'm sure she is but I'm not sure. Hi Erin. How does that mural...
So you're not committed to the mural? We just have to get back like the art fees for the time that we've spent on the art But you're not committed to the mural. So if it's the... No,
that's actually what I was going to ask. I was going to ask if we wanted to put a mural would it be difficult to put the mural in after the tree was installed?
Yeah, no, the mural has to go up before the tree.
So so if we wanted your type of a vinyl mirror mural we would have to put the vinyl first and then put the tree up.
That is correct. And again, even if let's say down the road we end up doing the 3D or any type of 3D If you hired a third-party muralist, they would need to put their mural up first before we could add any 3D to that wall on the second half. Yeah.
3:50 – 3:5627 turns
Okay. So to be clear, this meeting today, we are not moving forward with the mural, right? That doesn't mean we won't move forward with the mural. It doesn't mean we won't even choose Studio Y to do the mural but I think that the element that has been decided upon by this council or is about to be hopefully Would be the three Blossoming trees and the other tree and it's not that takes everything else off the table 100% but We're not decided It's not a hundred percent.
I believe what I heard her just say is that the Mural by the story time area has to go in before that tree goes
in 100% it does But the lead time to produce the the sculpted tree is a lot longer than a mural so I'd rather get the tree Ordered in production. Yeah get you to look at that whole design and if you say, you know what? That's a good idea Let's do that and carry it down the wall great We can do that too. If not, we can go from there too. Can we just have the consultants?
Yeah, I was gonna ask that Aaron would that would that be a problem could we could we contract with studio? Why now? Get the trees in production and then evaluate the actual mural later yeah,
so to the mayor's point murals take And I believe there had been.
Well, I think we would have to go back to Studio Y to get an updated proposal.
Well, I think we could do the not-to-exceed amount as the original amount that was in the first phase and if we don't do the mural then that would just be removed from that contract price. If that makes sense to me? Okay.
I would want to add some contingency and things like that.
Get out calculator Mr. Ball.
Somebody said there wasn't going to be any math, right?
Mr. Baldwell, you're calculating that I'll buy some time since we it's also sounds like we decided to give the marketing committee but go ahead to do some of the design elements. I'll just share some of the things that I've said before about restated in this context. The last two big art processes that we had run by the Metrolink and the Daily have been really heavy on artifacts right? The products of things. Artifacts that are things that are here or were produced here, but don't necessarily connect the through line to the people. So just as you work through this process if given that you're going to be considering murals in general I just would again ask that we continue to try and tie in some people elements to that as we discussed earlier in the meeting so thank you
I mean, just crunching numbers here really quickly with that initial quote was 253 140. If we added a 10 percent contingency like we had before it gets us up to 270. I would say we rounded up to 280 Not to exceed for the initial artwork.
And we wouldn't need a budget amendment, correct?
We would not, because we have over $333,000 allocated towards public art for the library. So that wouldn't require a budget amendment.
Okay, so we've already got that contract price with the contingency. That would be not to exceed of $280,000 to do the trees and the mural. If we don't do the mural, we would remove that from the contract. So...
Right.
That works. All
right. Motion's on the table. Second. The motion is seconded. We'll need a roll call vote.
This isn't a... We don't need a roll call vote for this item. I think we just want a general consensus from the
council. What if we want a roll call
vote? We can do
a roll call, if you'd like. No, it would be general consensus. All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Okay, good luck. Okay,
we'll move on to item 10 consent. We've polled consent item 10I so I'll entertain a motion for the balance. I'll make a motion.
Second.
The motion is second. We need a roll call vote.
Roll-call vote Passed 5–0 motion is second. We need a roll call
Show transcript
I'll move on to consent item
10I. I have a recusal statement out of an overabundance of caution. I am recusing myself from this because it involves the streetscape improvements adjacent to my place of employment, although I have no financial in that building. It is owned by my employer and so I'm recusing myself.
3:56 – 3:5813 turns
All right, Mr. Mayor, I'm recusing myself from this item because it involves streetscape improvements within 500 feet of my home. State law presumes that my property will be affected by these improvements. Thank you.
You guys can stay here? Okay, okay. Excellent. Okay. So 10-I is to consider design professional services agreement with BKF Engineers for Professional Engineering Design Services, professional services agreement with M6 Consulting for Project Management Services and a resolution amending fiscal year 2526 budget to fund High Street Improvement Project Phase 2. Let's see... Mr. Kim.
Thank you, Mayor and the Grand Honorable Council Members. I don't have a prepared presentation but just to reiterate this project that this is part of staff's effort to fulfill council status goal as our objectives as it relates to High Street and to continue High Street. As you all are well aware city staff completed construction of the first phase or yet the first phase of High Street This project is to continue on that through the entire downtown corridor and I'm available for any questions or any questions Thank you. Do we have any
speakers?
No, mr. Mayor no speakers on this item.
Okay, I will go ahead move approval
The
motion in a secondly to roll call vote
Roll-call vote Passed 3–0 motion in a secondly to roll call
Show transcript
And the record will reflect that council members Barrett and Castro have recused from this item.
This item is 11 ordinances, there are none.
Move on to Item 12 closed session. Dr. Hanna?
Thank you mayor staff has no items for closed session this evening.
Next item is 13 I'll make a motion to adjourn all in favor aye thank you and good night Moorpark