UnGovr Transcript
iHow this transcript is madeUnGovr transcribes the official recording with automated speech-to-text, separates speakers by voice, and matches voices to the seated roster. Names and attributions are AI estimates and may contain errors.Verify any quote yourself: click anywhere in the transcript and the official video jumps to that exact moment, so you can check any quote against the recording.0:00 – 0:036 turns
Will the clerk please take roll?
Good evening. Councilmember Barrett? Present. Councilmember Castro? Present. Councilmember Delgado? Present. Councilmember Means? Present.
Present. Next item is 4, Proclamations and Accommodations. Item 4A is a presentation of the 2026 Ventura County Fair poster. Will Fair Director Shante Morgan-Carter please join me up front?
It is always a joy to come out before my favorite city council. Should I say that? As a resident of Moorpark, it's always a joy to come out and present our Fair poster to the city of Moorpark and invite everyone to come out to the fair. As you know it's always a fun time at the fair in addition to the deep fried Oreos, the turkey legs and all of the other wonderful treats we have. A full series of concerts. This year we have Bush, Marshmello, Iration, Jake Owen. Of course we have Dia La Familia, Ashanti Switchfoot and Nate Smith among the many concert presentations this year. And we also look out for the pockets of our residents so that we have discounted days opening days $5 before 5 p.m..
We have Youth Day. We have seniors with disabilities, the Ventura County Credit Union offers discounts. So there's something for everyone and we're also looking out for your pockets. And one other thing I want to mention for the first time, we all have some new safety provisions. We knew we have a new clear bag policy where we're requiring clear bags and more can be found on our website at vcfair.org Okay for the safety of everyone and so with that please join us this year. I'm always excited to come out, like I said as a resident of Moorpark proud resident of Moorpark as well as a proud member of the Ventura County Fair Board and here's our all
right thank
you okay we're gonna take a picture.
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Next is item 4B, a proclamation declaring July 2026 as Parks and Recreation Month in Moorpark. Will Recreation Services Manager Stephanie Anderson please join me up front?
Some
of the crew.
A proclamation of the City Council proclaiming 2026 as Parks and Recreation Month, whereas the park and recreation profession is a diverse and comprehensive field that enhances the social personal environmental and economic well-being of communities. Whereas established in 1985 parks and recreation month recognizes and celebrates the dedicated professionals volunteers and advocates who maintain and improve local state and community parks and recreation services Whereas Parks and Recreation Month highlights the power of connection, play, community, nature, belonging and well-being. And whereas Parks and Recreation bring people together by fostering relationships, strengthening communities and creating opportunities for connection, play and civic engagement through the inclusive parks program in public spaces that promote creativity, lifelong learning, health, resilience, environmental stewardship and enhanced quality of life for all residents.
Whereas parks serve as an essential community asset that provide recreational opportunities, protect natural resources, support public health and contribute to a vitality and livability of neighborhoods. And whereas the value of parks is directly linked to their proper care and maintenance without regular upkeep community benefits diminish as facilities deteriorate safety concerns increase in public spaces become less inviting and accessible.
Whereas in addition to daily maintenance, parks require ongoing investment in infrastructure and equipment including irrigation systems, sports facilities, trails and playgrounds along with reliable funding to support necessary repairs, improvements and long-term sustainability. Whereas the stewardship of national resources within parks including trees, gardens, landscapes and water features requires continued attention through practices such as pruning, pest management and erosion control to preserve environmental health beauty resilience for future generations.
And whereas parks and recreation professionals, volunteers and community partners work year-round to create safe welcoming and vibrant public spaces that enrich the lives of residents of all ages. Their continued dedication deserves recognition and support. Now therefore be it resolved The Moorpark City Council hereby proclaims July 2026 as Parks and Recreation Month, and encourages all residents to recognize and celebrate the vital role that parks recreation programs and park professionals play in strengthening our community and enhancing the quality of life for all. A witness whereof, the city council of the city of Moorpark does set its hand and cause the seal of the city of Moorpark to be affixed this first day of July 2026.
That was the longest one, so I think the parks are probably most.
So, I'm from the recreation side. You've heard a lot of stuff about parks which are also amazing but I'm from the recreation side. First of all thank you Honorable Mayor and Council for this proclamation recognizing July as Parks and Recreation Month. I am Stephanie Anderson, the Recreation Services Manager and have actually worked for the city in the recreation division for over 30 years. During that time I have seen Amazing impact that our recreation programs have on our community. Our events, which include the Fireworks Extravaganza, which will be this Friday, Haunted High Street, Easter Egg Hunt, our Concert in the Park series, Moves in the Park, Skate Nights, we have many events. They bring our neighbors together and help strengthen our community identity.
Our Camp Moorpark and Little Learners Academy Preschool not only provide fun and engaging activities, but they also promote learning and social emotional development. We also have youth and adult sports leagues in recreation classes which promote physical and mental health and wellness. And putting all these amazing programs together takes an amazing team so I would like to recognize them tonight we have Victoria Kozlowski who's our Recreation Supervisor We have Cody Hosking, who's one of our coordinators. And also Alicia Pena.
Jose Medina couldn't make it tonight but that's our full-time team and then also we have over 40 part time staff and representing them tonight we have Josh Oxley, one of our parks and facility attendants. We have Connor May, our camp director and Lisa Fuentes, our assistant camp director. So I do want to publicly acknowledge and thank all of our staff at the Recreation Center that bring great programs to our community. And also again, thank you to the Mayor and Council for supporting recreation and giving us this proclamation tonight. Thank you.
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Next item 4C is a proclamation celebrating the 250th anniversary of the United States. Will James Carpenter, resident Navy veteran in American Legion post 502 adjutant and past commander please join me up front? A proclamation of the Moorpark City Council commemorating a 250th anniversary of the United States. Whereas on July 4th, 1776 the Declaration of Independence was adopted making the birth of the United States of America and setting forth the enduring ideals of liberty, equality and self-government. And whereas in July 4th 2026 our nation will commemorate and celebrate the 250th anniversary of the adoption of the Declaration of Independence milestone known as the United States Semi-Cinquantennial and whereas this historical This anniversary is an opportunity to pause and reflect on our nation's history, honor the contributions and sacrifices of generations of Americans, and look ahead towards a future we aspire to leave for our future generations.
Whereas the United States has been strengthened by the contributions of countless individuals from every background whose service, innovation, creativity, perseverance and civic commitment continue to shape our country's future. And whereas the City of Moorpark proudly joins communities across the nation in commemorating this anniversary and recognizing its significance to our shared history and our future. And whereas this moment invites us to come together as a community, to reflect on our shared values, appreciate our diversity, renew our commitment to civic participation in public service and recognize that the work of building a more perfect union is an ongoing responsibility entrusted to each generation.
Now therefore, do hereby proclaim that Moorpark City Council hereby recognizes the United States' semi-quincentennial and encourages all residents to reflect upon the significance of this commemoration and the role our community has in protecting the rights for our future generations. In witness whereof, the city council of the city of Moorpark does set its hand and cause the seal of the city of Moorpark to be affixed this first day of July 2026.
I'd like to thank the city and the City Council for this honor presenting this presentation. Honored to me to have the privilege of accepting this on behalf of the millions of men and women who served their country over the years from the beginning. And without them, we may be in a different situation right now than we are. But I certainly appreciate the people of Moorpark Recognizing the effort that was put forth by our people to help make this a country as great as it is.
Thank you very much.
All right, next item is five public comment. Do we have any speakers?
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Yes, Mr. Mayor we do have several speakers this evening since this is public comment individuals who are here in person or online and we had a couple registrants but not currently present you do have three minutes to address the council and public
Agenda Discussionitems moved / continued / pulled — click to expand
comment is for items that are of general nature or items not on the agenda so our first speaker is Colin Velasquez and he will be followed by Matt and I'm gonna mess this one up Xerxes perhaps
Good evening, Mayor Ingram and council members. It's exciting because this is the first city council I've been to in a new location. My name is... Good evening. My grandson gave me a squeak because he says I talk too much. Good evening, mayor and council members. My name is Colin Velasquez speaking on behalf of the Velasquez Family Trust. We are here tonight regarding our property at 476 West Los Angeles Avenue.
Give a brief history back in the early 90s, actually it was 1988. We dedicated a strip of our land to the city for a street extension, Unidos Avenue project and we posted the required improvement security bonds at that time Because the street extension was never built, we are currently working with the city on the street vacating process. So we land can be reconveyed. We have been trying to work cooperatively with staff and navigate this process. My manager Matt which is my grandson explains that specific hurdles were run into And why we're bringing it to your attention tonight. I want to thank you, good to see you.
Thank you. Good to see you too.
And our next speaker is Matt Xerxes and he's going to correct me if I got that wrong followed by Daniel.
That's all right thank you. Good evening, Honorable Mayor and Council Members. My name is Matt. To follow up on Colin's point I want to make it clear from the outset that we're not here to ask for any special treatment nor are we attempting to avoid legitimate city costs. We're here tonight as a last resort after attempting to resolve this cooperatively with staff reviewing historical documents and asking reasonable questions To process the street vacation, the city is requesting that we post a deposit of $35,500.
However, the city's own historical records indicate that approximately 80,000 in improvement security was originally posted for this project which was later reduced to approximately 35,000 after improvements were substantially completed. The obvious question we haven't been able to get an answer to is what became of that remaining security? We believe that before requiring a property owner to post another $35,500 deposit the city should reconcile its own historical records.
This is fundamentally a request for good government transparency and accountability. Taxpayers and property owners should reasonably expect the city to account for deposits it previously required before asking for additional funds decades later. Furthermore We feel this is a public policy issue. If records regarding improvement securities from prior developments cannot readily be reconciled, that is something every property owner and council member should be concerned about.
We understand that because this is general public comment you cannot take action tonight. However we respectfully ask the Council to direct staff to investigate and reconcile the city's historical records Regarding the improvement security associated with this property and report back before requiring the owners to post another $35,000 deposit. We are simply asking for transparency, accountability and confirmation that any prior security has been properly accounted for. Thank you for your
time.
Our next speaker is Daniel, who will be followed by, and here's another last name that's gonna give me a hard time. Greg Stratklaus.
Before my comment, good evening Mayor and Council. I'd like to request that before the consent calendar is approved, respectfully ask that item 8G be pulled for separate discussion. This is not because I oppose it. It's because the item involves public real estate at discounted lease rate A history of higher rent, city paid operating costs and ADA CASIP exposure. The public deserves a separate discussion before approval but it looks like I started my clock anyways.
That was a separate request to my public comments so just 25 seconds to 30 seconds if I can. All right good evening Mayor and Council. Before specific leasing compensation items I want to speak to the larger pattern. I believe residents are being asked to accept My concern is not one isolated contract, one lease, one raise. My concern is that Moorpark is drifting into a system where public money, public buildings, staff recommendations, consultant studies, salary schedules all move in the same direction towards insiders, repeat beneficiaries and a top-heavy administration while the public is left trying to decode complicated staff reports after the deal is already framed as routine business.
When the numbers are presented strategically, the public loses the ability to evaluate the true costs. A lease can be called cost recovery while ignoring the public value of real estate. A raise can be called a small percentage while hiding the much larger dollar impact at the top. A compensation study can be used to suggest fairness for lower paid workers while the biggest dollar gains still flow to the highest paid employees.
I want to address one excuse as resident here all too often when we question costs, the cost of everything has gone up since corona two times three times five times even ten times yes costs have gone up but that kind of blanket statement is not analysis it's a fog machine It may be convenient to a rent seeker, someone comfortable extracting value from raising prices. But it turns every questionable increase into oh, it's just inflation. But for the citizen who creates value and works nine-to-five and spends most of their take home money on housing, food, gas, insurance, utilities, and childcare everything costs more is not good enough. We need to know which cost, why it increased, who benefits, who pays, and whether council had a cheaper or better option.
The same applies to the phrase, we are a contract city. That may explain why some services are outsourced but it shouldn't become a magic phrase that shuts down scrutiny. If outsourcing is cheaper show the comparison. Show the fully loaded costs of hiring versus contracting. Show the hourly rate. Show the overhead. Show change orders, renewals, performance metrics. Because when the city already has many highly compensated administrative positions, the public deserves to know whether outsourcing is saving money or whether we are paying premium salaries and premium contractor rates at the same time. I'm not claiming a legal violation. I am saying this environment looks increasingly cronyistic and nepotistic adjacent.
It should have been cleared long ago, although through clear disclosures, clear conflict review and clear performance metrics. I respectfully ask that 8G be pulled for consent. Already did that. Publics should not have to reverse engineer every agenda item to learn whether rent was cut, whether benefits are excluded from fiscal impacts Whether salary increases compound or whether a public asset is quietly being subsidized. So my request is simple, slow down, separate public benefit from private or insider benefit, show the math, show the history, show alternative options. When a deal touches a politically sensitive facility relationship salary consultant or department head put the full context on the record before asking the council to approve it because right now the pattern looks like a system protecting itself.
Thank you for your time.
Good evening honorable mayor, city council members. My name is Greg Straklus. I have the honor of directing the Ventura County Public Works Department also serving to provide service to Waterworks District 1. I'm here tonight just add a little personal touch to a memo you received earlier today about Sewer rate adjustments that are forthcoming. So normally the district would tie rate adjustments to the first of the fiscal year, which would be today but we wanted to take a little bit more time this year to review a recent study that was done to take a look at infrastructure regulatory compliance labor energy and equipment To build into the proposed rate adjustment so that's taking a little bit of time And our intention is to have a rate adjustment in place by September 1st instead of July 1st.
Overall, the district enjoys one of the lowest sewer rates in Southern California and district staff and the Citizens Advisory Committee are working hard to ensure that continues At the same time providing reliable and sustainable infrastructure, sewer service requires investments in infrastructure. Not deferral of projects to find the most important infrastructure projects like pipelining, pump replacements and plant upgrades a rate adjustment is needed.
In addition, energy equipment and labor costs all continue to rise. Fuel costs are a little bit unpredictable right now but please be assured that the staff, the district staff will continue
0:23 – 0:289 turns
to apply for grants and loans that help pay for these projects and help spread the cost out over time for ratepayers. So our next steps is to issue a Proposition 218 notice. There's a 45-day noticing period for that, return back to the Board of Supervisors on August 18th and have rates in place on 9-1. The specific rate adjustments are going to be for two year period which is a little bit different too. Instead of a one year period doing this annually we wanted to provide a little bit more certainty over the time of two years Those rate adjustments will be contained within the Prop 218 notices, but in general they move the current monthly average residential unit rate from $32.25 a month to $41.93 a month for that first year and then the second year would increase to $51.58 for that second year.
And also the reuse water rates are also going to be included in that Prop 218 notice. There are some adjustments there that are being made, but those reuse water rates, recycled water rates are still well 83% below potable water rates so the incentive is there to continue using reused water. I just want to thank city staff for collaboration over the last several weeks and also offer the district staff time to come back to your council discuss more details or answer any questions that you may have.
Thank
you.
And our next speaker is Dan Birchfield who will be followed by Matthew Tobin.
Good evening Moorpark City Council and Mr. Mayor, my name is Dan Burchfield and I'm here tonight to thank you the council for considering the Joel Moorpark Angel plaque on Joel's bridge. Standing up here before you tonight kind of brings back memories even though it's a different building 30 years ago when my neighbors and myself appeared here many many times in council meetings crusading for that bridge over the Arroyo for safe passage of our community.
Tonight I'm here to explain why the Joel Birchfield Memorial Fund would like to install a new plaque next to the Joel Birchfield poem plaque. The Joel Birchfield Memorial Fund was made possible from the love from our community. Since 1999, we've given out over $165,000 to the youth of our community. Little leaguers, girls softball and graduating seniors at Moorpark High School.
We'd like to give a huge thanks to our Moorpark neighbors and use that plaque for future fundraising ideas. The plaque is going to read, Joel's Moorpark Angels, the Joel Birch Memorial Fund is made possible by the profound love and generosity of our Moorpark community keeping dreams alive for our Moorpark youth who will pass this way. So each year we're going to put two names on that plaque starting this year honoring those who've donated to the Joel Fund.
So because of the compassion of our community members and the inspiration from my son, Joel, the Joel Birchfield fund was founded throughout the years dreams were kept alive because of the scholarships given out to those youth. This plaque gives an ovation to those community members. Thank you for your time.
Thank you.
And the last speaker card that I have is for Matthew Tobin. For public comment.
Good evening, Council. My name is Matthew Tobin. I'm a Moorpark resident since 2019. I've been attending the last few meetings to get a general feel for how things are done by council and how things are being approached. I'd like to share a few general fiscal observations from the last few meetings I have attended, and not tie anything to anyone's specific agenda item.
First on balancing the budget I've encouraged the Council to keep spending aligned with sustainable recurring revenue rather than leaning on reserves or one-time funds for ongoing costs. On consultants, I'd ask council to periodically revisit whether recurring year after year consultant relationships might be better and more affordably handled by city staff.
I'd specifically challenge the council to direct staff to run a straightforward cost benefit analysis comparing consultant fees to in-house capacity. Done by staff, not hiring another consulting firm. Third on a new revenue measures as far as new projects come forward I'd ask the council to be thoughtful before turning to new assessments, fees or taxes and to ask each time whether existing revenue could be reprioritized first.
None of this is a criticism of any one particular project, just a general ask that fiscal discipline stay at the front and center. Thank you.
Thank you.
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And I see no individuals signed up to speak remotely so that would be the end of our public comment.
Okay all right thank you. Mr. Gagahena, would you be able to reach out to Mr. Velazquez and maybe provide us a box and item on that subject?
Yes, Mr. Mayor. And I actually talked to Mr. Velasquez before the meeting and I'll definitely follow up and have conversation
with
him.
Awesome. Thank you. And thank you to all the speakers that came out tonight. Next item six reordering of and distance agenda. Do we need to pull anything from consent? I'm gonna go ahead and recommend we pull 8G for discussion.
Okay.
Anything else? Nope, okay. All right
we'll move on to item seven announcements future agenda items and reports of meetings and conferences attended by council members and mayor. We'll start with Mr. Barrett
On June 18th, I attended the Regional Defense Partnership board meeting, Board of Directors meeting. On June 19th, and I attended the Moorpark Chamber Networking Breakfast. On June 23rd, I attended the Marketing Ad Hoc meeting regarding the library art. On June 24th, I attended the Coffee with a Cop. That was the first time it was collaboration with the Moorpark Chamber of Commerce and an amazing turnout at that event. There were about 30 people, I believe, that came which was great to see the interaction with our law enforcement.
On June 25, I attended the Moorpark Chamber board meeting. On June 29th, I had the honor of attending the closing weekend of Joseph's Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat at the High Street Arts Center. If you haven't seen a show at the High Street Arts Center, make sure you pay attention. They've got a great season coming up for next year and they just always amaze me with the production quality that we get right here in Moorpark.
And this afternoon I attended the Government Relations meeting for the Chamber of Commerce
On June 19th, I also attended the Chamber of Commerce breakfast. On the 22nd, I along with council members attended the special budget workshop council meeting. The 23rd along with Council Member Barrett attended the marketing ad hoc library artwork meeting on the 24th. I also attended the coffee with a cop at Country Harvest. It was one of the more successful events which was nice to see On June 25th, I attended the Chamber of Commerce Board of Directors meeting and this afternoon, I attended the Board of Directors meeting for the Economic Development Collaborative. Thank
you. Thank you.
Mr.
Castro?
Other than the Sending Me Special Budget Workshop, I have nothing to report. Okay, thank you.
Mr Minns? I too was at the Special Budget Workshop. I also on the 29th had the pleasure of meeting with one of our residents here, Jim Fryrie. We checked out some pavement together I also had the experience of being able to hear the song that he has written and produced and professionally done called Moorpark my hometown. And I just want to give that a little Little play if you haven't heard it yet What a fun what a fun way to honor our town and what better day to talk about it then on our birthday because today is the 43rd Birthday of the city of Moorpark. So thank you, man. You guys saying it?
I am me me Nope
Guys for myself Thursday June 18th. I had a tour of the library in progress looking pretty good coming up today, I Apologize for missing the government relations meeting. I was hanging out with Tom talking about stuff and that went too long It's usually what happens and then also attended the administrative finance and public services meeting with dr. Castro about 20 minutes ago That's all I have to report and have a few announcements here While tens of thousands of people will be enjoying our fireworks show this weekend, Moorpark PD will be out in the community strictly enforcing all fireworks laws with zero tolerance.
A dedicated fireworks patrol unit and drone unit will be on the lookout this weekend for sparklers, firecrackers and aerial devices. There are no exceptions for so-called safe and sane fireworks. Please be respectful to your neighbors, your pets and your community this year and celebrate responsibly! Celebrate USA 250 and Independence Day at the 3rd of July fireworks extravaganza. This fun family event is held at a Royal Vista Community Park and features live music, food booths, games and attractions, the presentation of the American flag and aerial fireworks display. Admission is $10 cash at the gate for details visit moorparkca.gov slash fireworks Movies in the Park USA 250 American Movie Road Trip continues on Saturday, July 11th with a screening of Cars.
The movie will be shown at Arroyo Vista Park starting at 8.15pm. Admission is free and food is available for purchase. For details including the full road trip schedule visit moorparkca.gov slash movies Put on your quads or blades and join us for an evening of skating, music, contests and more at our First Summer Jams Skate Night on Friday July 17th. The fun takes place from 6 to 8 p.m. at the Arroyo Vista Community Park multi-use court. Admission is free. For details visit moorparkca.gov slash skate Moorpark's summer concert series continues on Saturday, July 25th at 6 p.m., with music by the 805 Social Club. In honor of USA 250, we present The History of American Pop.
Concert will be held at the Roya Vista Community Park and admission is free. For details visit moorparkca.gov slash concerts. Next item is consent. We pulled Item 8G so I'll entertain a motion for the balance. Second the motion in a second we'll need a roll call vote.
Roll-call vote Passed 5–0 motion in a second we'll need a roll call
Show transcript
Next item is consent, and that is 8G. That is consider approval of three-year lease agreement with the Children's and Families First Commission of Ventura County for Reuben Castor Human Services Center 612 Spring Road Building B Suite 401. Mr. Laurentowski?
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Thank you, Mayor. I do not have a presentation prepared for this item but I can give you a brief summary. First 5, their lease agreement is up for renewal as with all the agencies in the Ruben Castro Services Center. First 5 provides valuable no-cost or very low cost services for families and children Because of this relationship with the city, the City Council has previously approved a rate structure where the rates are essentially covering our operating costs.
And those are divided up against all of the leasing organizations in the center. Currently, our operating costs are about $110,000 per year. Lease revenues bring in about $139,000 per year. So it covers our operating costs and that's essentially how we've established that structure.
Thank you. Are there any questions of staff? One question, is this intended to be a market rate lease or is it supposed to just cover costs?
Correct. It's not a market rate lease rate. It was never set up that way again because these are low cost or no cost services to Moorpark families we've decided that the lease rate structure for all the leasing agencies within the center would be Essentially to cover operating costs. Okay, and that protocol is similar to the rest of the groups just like this correct Catholic Charities actually has a even a lower lease rate because a lot of their leased spaces it's Storage and stuff like that. So they have a very small office structure Thank you
questions yet
We established a fee schedule that Nonprofits would would have to pay a couple meetings ago To use our facilities is it safe to assume that because this is entering into a long-term lease It is therefore exempted from that lease schedule,
correct? It doesn't have to be on that lease schedule But it does follow the same premise as our fee structure that we currently Operate under where we allow certain group categories to pay our direct costs When when the services are at no cost to the community, so it's similar to the same structure that we just passed
and then as a follow-up for if there was a vacancy in that building and there was interest from a for-profit organization or one that has not been identified as having a community benefit, would we as a city rent to such an organization?
We could. It's not prohibited by any reason and in that case we would bring that to the City Council and probably consider a different rate structure.
That was the follow-up question so it would not be at the same rate
structure? Not if they were a for profit based business absolutely not.
And then how do we determine what the difference would be is it the nonprofit status
Nonprofit status and then the types of services they're providing the community most of these are grant funded money coming from the state and things of that sort or Sponsorships, and what not so appreciate it. Thank you
Do we have any speakers?
Yes, mr. Mayor we have one speaker For a pulled consent item that would be mr. Daniel
Good evening Mayor and Council. On the first five lease at Ruben Castro Human Services Center, I want to be clear, I am not questioning whether early childhood and family services are valuable. They are, they're rad. I'm so happy to hear it's a non-profit and all that. My question revolved more around the structure of the leasing and how it was evaluated. So it was awesome to hear Mr. Laurentowski say that reduced structure is because they're a nonprofit. I saw the names and I was concerned Because of the relationship to the city council member and the lack of transparency around a potential recusal from that vote, we might not get a full picture.
In 2012 their rent was reduced a lot and now it's 2026 and I understand being altruistic but when you're the department it's got the biggest holes in your operating budget It seems weird to give such a sweet spot deal to one tenant with the market values occurred. And I am so happy that they're a non-profit that gives cool services to needing people, so... Obviously this is not the best case to take up arms against a reduced rate, but the lack of transparency around it in the first place begged the question. So I would implore people on the council or the city staff to look at the numbers I ran because at a low-end scenario in the new lease you're missing out on $61,000 of potential rent for the city and that's increasing it to keep in At the market average we would be missing out on $120,000 and at the upper market range approximately 237.
However that is all irrelevant because it is a nonprofit offering services to people who need them but then it also begs the question of when their rent was decreased at a time when the rest of the world's was increased from 2012 and then it stayed right there It's just they must have negotiated really, really well. So with all the projects that are being held for evaluation of long-term exclusive lease plans I was just hoping it as the public we could get increased transparency on these reports and products that are being presented to us to evaluate them before these individual council meetings I'm not complaining about this one. I just wanted a little bit more transparency, so we didn't have to reverse engineer the agenda item. It's a really cool cause.
The relationship concerns me. I hope that a council member related to somebody at the company would recuse themselves from this vote.
Thank you. Final speaker?
That was the only speaker on this.
Wounded discussion. I understand the reason why it's like this, and obviously we have reduced rates to cover our cost. I pulled the item as Mr. Politi wanted to talk about it, but Mr. Politi, this is something that I would love to talk to you about before the meeting at some point in the future so when we have questions like this, we can bring them up. But I wanted to bring it out just for, just to be considerate of that.
Any objections or?
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I just wanted to chime in that the nature of the question is a good one, especially in light of the budget workshop that we just had. What are we doing to make sure that we as a city are financially solvent? But when we find partnerships with the community that deliver more benefit than we can do ourselves as a city, I think those are special opportunities and there are other examples in the city where we're doing this that justify how this has been done We think of the Chamber of Commerce building at reduced rent, which helps economic development in our city. We think of the Boys and Girls Club and their use of the Apricot Room that are helping our youth during the summer. We think of the Friends of the Library that have space in the library and are doing fundraising efforts and programming efforts.
And then we have organizations like the High Street Art Center that pay rent while doing things that are positive for our community and performing art So I'm glad it's being looked at. I certainly went through the packet, also looked at the numbers and said wait a minute are we at least covering our costs because we know we can't really afford to be giving away cash flow right now but I think it's a good topic to at least be considering but with that I'm fairly comfortable and I won't speak for any other council members up here but I do not believe that there is any sort of conflict of interest in this particular item at all.
We'll go ahead and I'll move the recommendation. Second. Or all third. A motion and a second.
Actually this is not, just needs a voice vote.
All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries.
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Okay, next item is public hearings. Item 9A is to consider resolution approving general plan amendment number CD-GPA-2026-0003 and specific plan amendment number CDSPA-2026-0003. Determining that this project is consistent with the previously certified general plan 2050 environmental impact report through consideration of addendum pursuant to the California Environmental Quality Act Introduce ordinance approving zoning map amendment number CD dash ZC a dash two zero two six dash zero zero zero seven Mr. Spondello, thank you very much mayor and council members
I'm sorry if your honorable mayor there are two recusals that need to happen on this one before the staff presentation
Okay, I'll go first. Mr. Mayor, I'm accusing myself from this item because the item involves changes to the development standards for the property I own and properties in the vicinity of the property I own and because additional time is required for the FPPC to determine if the decisions involving the plan can be segmented. Thank you.
Mr. Mayor, I'm recusing myself from this item because the item could financially affect the owner of My Employer Insurance Workers West and the owners property located at 233 High Street And because additional time is required for the FEBC to determine if they're if the decisions involving the plan can be segmented Thank you
Thank you very much Mayor and I apologize for jumping right into that. This evening staff is requesting continuance of this item, we ask that you open the public hearing accept testimony and then continue that public hearing to a date uncertain while the draft downtown specific plan is ready and provided online at our website moorparkca.gov slash DTSP staff is reviewing some procedural matters that relate to the council public hearing and will be re-noticing this hearing for a later date In the meantime, the staff or excuse me. The public is invited to view the draft on our website and contact us Should you have any questions or feedback that they'd like to provide? Thank you.
Thank you there any questions of staff We'll go ahead and open the public hearing do we have any speakers
No, mr. Mayor. We have no speakers on the public hearing item.
Okay, we'll close the public hearing
Mr. Mayor, we need to keep our public hearing open and continue to a date uncertain. I
We will keep the public hearing open and continue to a date uncertainty.
All in favor?
Aye.
So go faster if we don't bring them back just just a suggestion
Not even time for snacks.
Okay, next is public hearing item 9B to conduct the Tax and Equity in Fiscal Responsibility Act. Public hearing to consider a resolution approving the issuance of conduit financing for the Villa de Arroyo Mobile Home Park. Ms. Dever?
0:49 – 0:5411 turns
Good evening, Mayor and City Council members. We are here this evening to conduct a public hearing pursuant to the Federal Tax Equity and the Federal Responsibility Act known as TEFRA. TEFRA requires that a public hearing be held by the governing body of the jurisdiction in which a project to be financed with tax-exempt financing is located and that the governing body approves the proposed financing.
Augusta Communities has asked the California Municipal Finance Authority, the CMFA be the issuer of tax exempt financing in an amount not to exceed $15,610,000. of tax exempt revenue bonds to, one, refinance a mobile home park with approximately 241 spaces known as Villardale Arroyo Mobile Home Park located in Moorpark, California at 15, excuse me, 15750 Arroyo Drive and finance improvements.
And two, finance certain costs of issuing the bonds The California Municipal Finance Authority is a joint powers authority formed to assist the local government, non-profit organizations and businesses with issuance of both taxable and tax exempt debt. The debt to be issued by the CMFA will be the sole responsibility of the borrower, and the city will have no financial or legal obligations or responsibilities regarding the repayment of the debt.
All financing documents will carry disclaimers that the loan is not an obligation of the city. The city will have bare no cost in the issuance of the proposed debt. This is a private loan with the borrower and their bank. Staff recommends that the City Council open a public hearing, take public testimony, close the public hearing and adopt a resolution approving the issuance of the bond by CMFA for the borrower.
Such adoption is solely for purpose of satisfying the requirement of TEFRA, the code and the California Government Code Section 6500. This concludes my report. We have Mr. Suzuki from CMFA and Ms. Taylor from Augusta Communities are here for any questions you may have.
Thank you. Do we have any questions or staff?
I just want to confirm that any type of refinance is not going to, what am I trying to say? Is it not going to change the deed restriction for it being affordable housing in any way?
That's correct. Council Member, there has been changes to the deed restrictions.
And then also do you know what type of fee we will be receiving?
Yes, Council Member. The approximate amount that will be issued back to the city is about $9000 based on the collected issuance free from the Finance Authority.
Thank you.
Any questions? We'll go ahead and open the public hearing. Do we have any speakers?
Yes, Mr. Mayor we have one speaker on this item that is Mr. Daniel Politi again and since this is a public hearing you have five minutes in which to address the council
I just had two questions. So, I guess one of them might be for the two organizational people back here supporting the effort is if so does TURPA allow us to give interest-free loans or does it demand we give interest free loans because $15 million earning nine thousand dollars There could be some more money earned on a $15 million investment is what I was thinking even at like point, you know Whatever zero zero something percent.
Um And then she referenced certain Costs, I just we see certain costs blanketed like that It just seems like an invitation for everything and the kitchen sink. So as a citizen, I would like to see some specifics of what those costs are and how they're associated to the loan because the interest on a $15 million loan seems like a pretty easy win to pick up some of the missing money that our city is looking to recoup these days.
Thank you.
0:54 – 0:579 turns
Yeah, if Council wants me to provide any information on that. I would agree, yeah. So these are tax-exempt bonds because they're specifically qualified for development projects that have an affordable housing component which is the case for the mobile home park and that's why they're issued in that manner. And the California Municipal Finance Authority is structured so that they could facilitate issuance of those taxes and bonds In terms of any associated costs, the finance authority again is a separate entity from the city collects those administrative fees in order to process the actual transaction.
And then actually, just to clarify too as part of that processing of the transaction, the fact that it does include sort of a partnership agreement with local jurisdictions just like the city. Those associated costs that the finance authority collects, a portion does then get issued back to the City of Moorpark so we receive approximately $9000 to be deposited in our general fund.
Go ahead and close the public hearing. And discussion? Any objections or points?
I just remember the first time that I saw one of these things come through, and it didn't make any sense to me that we have no cost, no debt, no liability, no repayment obligation whatsoever. And an entity that's operating, in this case for low income housing ends up paying us the city $9000. It's a little hard to get your head around but in this particular case if anything this is likely to benefit the city coffers as opposed to take away from
them.
Who wants to make one?
I'll move staff recommendation.
Second.
We have a motion and a second.
Roll-call vote Passed 5–0 motion and a second.
Show transcript
Next is presentation action discussion, item 10A. Resolution approving amendment number one to the employment agreement between City of Moorpark and city manager P.J. Gagahanna and consider resolution amending the salary plan for non-competitive services and competitive service employees revising the city manager's salary rescinding resolution number 2026-4365. Mr. Royos?
0:57 – 1:034 turns
Good evening, Mr. Mayor, Council and members of the public here today. Staff comes before you this evening regarding an amendment to the employment contract for our city manager, Mr. P.J. Gahenya, and to update the salary plan to reflect a new agreement under consideration this evening. To provide a little bit of background for not only the council and the members here, the members of the public here in person and at home may be tuning in. The city council approved the City Manager's Employment Agreement on June 4th 2025 with an effective date of June 28th 2025. I might note that that date was three days ago so I did want to congratulate our city manager on his first year of employment as a city manager for the City of Moorpark.
With that, his base annual salary was set at $245,000 and $3.20. Following his one year of tenure in the role, the proposed amendment would provide for a 3% cost-of-living adjustment I might note that 3% cost of living adjustment is consistent with the 3% that was provided to staff as well, with an effective date of July 1st, 2026 which would be today. That increase would increase its base annual salary by $7342.40.
All other provisions of the employment agreement would remain the same, including all fringe benefits. That would be all the same. The fiscal analysis and fiscal impact to this city has already been budgeted in the 2026-2027 fiscal year budget. In connection with approving the amendment, so should you do so this evening, the salary plan would need to be amended as well to be reflected and posted on our website.
Not only in compliance with CalPERS reporting requirements and established government code but that would satisfy that requirement. The recommendation this evening from staff is as follows, a request to you Mr. Mayor to make the required oral compensation announcement required by law and then the recommendation would be two motions requesting adoption of the resolutions amending the city manager's employment agreement and then the second resolution would be an amendment updating the salary plan For the city and a roll call vote would be required I am happy to answer any questions you or the council might have
Thank you. We have any questions of staff No questions Do we have any speakers?
Yes, mr. Mayor. We have one speaker on this item. Mr. Daniel Politi And as this is presentation action discussion you have three minutes to address the council
PJ, you rock. You have been engaging and so it's kind of a touchy subject. I'm not here arguing against you as a person or you getting a raise based on your work because I don't know your work. I don't evaluate your work. I don�t have your performance metrics. And like I said, you're a nice person. So I've had good positive interactions with you. I appreciate that.
My concern is more the compensation methodology that the city's been exemplifying over the past years as especially with regards to the lopsided structure of the city employment and that's hirers versus lower earners. So my argument or my theory, or what I'm trying to convey is that often the reasoning behind these raises is being presented as if it were from a median wage standpoint or from one of the lower earners when our organization's extremely top heavy. I think 70% are making over $125,000 and I did prepare a graphic ahead of time that shows the breakdown as of the 2024 payroll data. So that red chunk is 54% of our city staff making over $125,000. Now we're hiring more people into positions like these. The first council meeting I came to, we came into somebody getting 150K which is great.
I'm not arguing that these positions can't be worth that kind of money But if we are at the same time kicking historic amounts of money to contractors and surveys and studies for this, while we're still bringing on very high pay band employees at a time when administrative work is being increasingly automated and made more effective. with tools available to your children on their cell phones.
I'm wondering why we're paying for top-level employees and top level consultants at the same time, and not top level as in performance but top cost? And just a kind of... show some of these calculations. I have the wages of the city compared to the national medians, which is cool because we just had a presentation on the county averages and they're more in line with the national averages. So this red line and this blue line in my picture down near the bottom Those are the national averages and the Ventura County averages. This green one over here, that's the Parks and Rec Director before this era, that total compensation has crept from approximately 150 to its current around 300. I won't get to PJs. PJ hasn't raised as much respectively.
1:03 – 1:0818 turns
Thank you. And that was our only speaker on this item.
Thank you. All right, move to discussion. It's pretty straightforward in this one. Keeping competitive with the rest of the cities and keeping our employees is one thing that I know we spend a lot of time looking at as well, but I'm not saying that isn't right to constantly look at that. Obviously, we don't want to be over bloated on anything, but I do feel like we are competitive with what we're doing.
Everyone agree?
I do agree with that. And I also understand the point of the speaker, it might help the public to know that we did look at benchmarking materials before we entered into a two-year contract, the benchmark material comparing jobs experience populations budgets around the surrounding cities throughout the county and just outside the county I'd try to make sure that it's the appropriate compensation. Compensation is something that I happen to do professionally and I teach a little bit about at a masters level, and you need to make sure that you have proper compensation The right talent available to you more importantly to this is we have a two-year contract in place And this is not a raise. We aren't randomly giving more money This is a cost of living adjustment that is consistent with what we did for the staff increases so at the time that the contract renews, that's certainly a time for us to look at it again, but I'm very comfortable with where we are now and and how we got here, and the original baseline which not everybody here was there for was certainly deeply evaluated and negotiated.
And I don't believe that cost of living Increases are necessary blanket ones because if you don't do that, you're pretty much giving out a pay decrease for the next year So that's where? You know, I understand the point of not just blindly putting pay increases across the board every year That's something that we should always be looking at but for cost of living. That's just something that I think unfortunately, we're constantly have to chase inflation which probably causes this in the first place but Economic, you know experts so With that I before we get into the The motion this I have to read out a Section here. So staff recommends that the City Council approve the amendment number one to the employment agreement between the city of Moorpark and city manager Panny PJ gaga Hannah.
I didn't know that was your first name if that was PJ Thank You Providing 3% cost of living adjustment effective July 1st 2026 which increases his annual base salary from $245,003.20 to $252,345.60 all the terms of the employment agreement remain unchanged That Almost make a motion move to adopt the resolution approving amendment one I Second
we have a
motion in the second. We'll need a roll call vote
Councilmember means all
right
councilmember Delgado I'd councilmember Barrett. Hi councilmember Castro Mayor in a grin
Honorable mayor if I may there's two resolutions on That item and the motion was to approve the amendment number one But there's also the resolution amending the salary plan for non-competitive services if we can get emotion on that one as well
That's a great catch and I would also like to move the second motion in a second we'll need a roll call vote
Councilmember means
still I
councilmember Delgado. Hi councilmember Barrett.
Hi
council member Castro. Hi mayor integrand.
Aye
Tom you get all three of this next time you gotta get all three of them next time Next is presentation action discussion item 10 B. Let's consider exclusive negotiating agreement with John M Gregor Chuck for 1063 to 1123 Walnut Canyon Road and 1293 to 1331 Walnut Canyon Road in a point ad hoc committee to negotiate disposition and development agreement for this project miss Sandifer
1:08 – 1:138 turns
Mr. Mayor, if I may, I want to announce that I'm recusing myself from agenda item 10B relating to the sale of city properties, 1063 through 1123 and 1293 through 1331 Walnut Canyon Road. The party proposing to buy these properties keeps a horse at my property.
I could start talking really slowly. Good evening, Mayor Enneagrin and City Council members. The parcels on Walnut Canyon Road located at 1063 and 1123 Walnut Canyon Road and 1293 to 1331 Walnut Canyon Road which is a total of nine parcels individually were purchased by the former redevelopment agency to provide an aggregated site for affordable housing. After the dissolution of the redevelopment agency, the city assumed the role of the housing successor agency and was tasked with completing the development of the property or disposing of the parcels. But the proceeds of the sale of the land to be returned to affordable housing fund for use for future housing projects in other locations.
While many attempts were made over the years to develop the properties for affordable housing, the loss of the Redevelopment Agency financing had hindered those efforts. And since all statutory deadlines have passed, the parcels are at the point where they need to be disposed of. So the properties were declared surplus and all associated SLA requirements were completed in June of 2023.
Since that time discussions have been held with several interested developers that did not result in actionable property sales. In February 2026, staff began negotiations with Mr. Gregorchuk for the parcels. The result of those negotiations is the exclusive negotiating agreement before you this evening. The ENA provides a period of exclusivity for Mr. Gregorchuk which prohibits the city from negotiating with other parties while property due diligence and entitlement activities are occurring prior to the sale of the property.
The proposed ENA has a 12-month term that can be extended by the city manager to allow more time. It does include deliverables to help determine whether the ENA should be extended based on progress made at that date. The ENA requires the purchase of the property at fair market value as determined by an appraisal conducted six months prior to close of escrow.
The ENA calls, the ENA defines the conceptual framework to guide the overall development of the properties I'm going to be talking about a number of items that we're working on at this time. The first item is the development of a new zoning code which includes keeping density within the residential are one zoning on the southern 6 properties and complying with planning zoning laws were relevant It's important to note that the ENA calls out what the maximum development could be for the properties. The ultimate development would be determined during entitlement process and DDA negotiations, and could end up being different or smaller from that which is in the ENA currently.
And that could change due to property constraints or other things that are discovered during the entitlement process. So staff is recommending the approval of the ENA for the 12-month term and authorizing the city manager to sign the agreement. As I mentioned, one task that needs to be accomplished during the ENA period is the negotiation of a disposition and development agreement, or DDA.
DDAs are used to discourage land speculation and control development on property owned by the city and planned to be sold to developer. It helps to define the project design and also becomes the final conveyance instrument for the properties. So, staff is recommending that an ad hoc committee of two council members be appointed to work with the developer and the planning department to negotiate the DDA and provide input on the project. So this concludes my report and I'm happy to answer any questions.
Thank you. Are there any questions of staff?
Just out of curiosity at what point does a new appraisal come along?
So that'll be determined based on when the entitlements are concluded. So if we're, we'll try to cut it as close to the entitlements being approved so that we don't run out of that six month period during the next time. Maybe like a month before the entitlements or two weeks before the entitlements go, we'd have it concluded.
Thank you.
Do we have any speakers?
Yes, Mr. Mayor we have one speaker on this item and as it is a presentation item you have three minutes to address the council and this is Mr. Daniel Politi.
1:13 – 1:1711 turns
Hello so I just wanna say that Gregory Chuck's reputation is amazing and I'm happy to say that I grew up at a school where his brother taught and had a very good reputation as well. I was using this as a proxy to talk about fair market value rigor, and my only question was it was extensively applied in this situation whereas the first five it was... And for an arguably okay reason, it was not so extensively applied and that is the kind of Balance, I'm looking to achieve.
And this one doesn't even have the risk of overrunning and having to have the city pay a bunch of money to modernize ADI compliancy like what happened over at the theater. So there's not a bunch of hidden costs that might show up later that get subsidized by the city. This seems like a really awesome project and all that stuff that I just said had nothing to do with that except for I'm questioning the fair market value rigor applied.
Thank
you.
And that is our only speaker on this item.
All right Thank you. All right, we'll go into discussion For the ad hoc committee we can talk about that first Well actually let's first discuss if we're gonna go into a exclusive negotiating agreement which to start there I'm sure Any objections to that or any comments? I
don't have any objections of that and I'm not looking to make a call in and respond Environment to our City Council meetings, but just as a reminder to our council We looked at this and city staff had multiple opportunities to present other Potential outcomes for this property that could have been at less than fair market value and through our process I'm pleased to see that we are in a place for fair market value with the potential for a community serving development from a local resident developer or local developer Is is where we're headed. So with that in mind, I am in favor of the exclusive negotiating
agreement Okay, let's pick an ad hoc committee I'd like to nominate dr. Castro for one of the parts and I like to leave it up to mr. Means and still got oh to fight it out
Only one of us is a real estate professional. And despite my high opinion of myself, I would defer to the professional if you would like to take
it. If you would like me to that's fine, I can do that.
Short of perhaps Dr. Castro, I can't think of anybody equally or better.
Okay, great. So we'll have Delgado and Castro on the ad hoc committee and I will go ahead and move approval of the exclusive negotiating agreement with the Ad Hoc Committee as picked. Second. Motion in a second? All in favor? Aye. Okay, next is presentation action discussion item 10C as to consider additional conceptual artwork designs for the Moorpark City Library Children's Area. Mr. Ball?
1:17 – 1:294 turns
Yeah thank you give us a sec while we get the presentation loaded here. All right, thank you. Good evening Mayor Inegren and City Council members. City Council Policy 6.7 is titled Public Art in New City Public Facilities and it requires that new public facility projects include public art as a feature of the design. Funding for the public art is allocated from the Art in Public Places fund which is comprised entirely of developer in-lieu fees for use exclusively for the Art in Public Places program In December of 2024, the City Council allocated $350,000 from the Art in Public Places Fund to the New Moorpark Library project.
On May 6th, the City Council approved an initial set of art elements for the children's area of the new library along with a contract with Studio Y Creations Inc. for fabrication and delivery of the approved artwork. The primary element of this initial design is a 15-foot tall sculpted apricot tree mounted against the wall in the northeast corner of the children's area, with a tree canopy that extends over the storytime area. The tree also features a hollow at its base and sculpted roots to provide a variety of sitting and reading spaces for children.
Complementing the big tree are three young apricot trees sculpted around steel support beams on the north side of the children's area to form a row of blossoming trees reminiscent of an apricot orchard in bloom. Various accent features are included in the design, including sculpted apricots in the large tree, birds and squirrels in the trees, and two custom-themed seats in the storytime area. The approved design also envisions a mural portraying a stylized apricot orchard on the back, or on the wall behind that main tree and along the wall beside the tree. You can see it in the background of that image there.
And again with the mural artwork to be developed at a later date. Together these elements are intended to celebrate the city's agricultural heritage and complement the building's agrarian inspired architecture. On May 6th, the City Council also considered additional artwork designed for other parts of the children's area but ultimately declined to move forward with the proposed elements. Instead, the City Council referred artwork development to the Marketing Ad Hoc Committee which consists of council members Barrett and Delgado with a goal of creating a more immersive and engaging patron experience.
Staff has met with the Marketing Ad Hoc Committee several times to discuss opportunities for adding artwork and review concepts developed by the committee The primary elements proposed by the committee are presented in this item and we'll look at them in the following slides. However, it's important to note that the illustrations are all conceptual images provided by the Ad Hoc Committee and intended for this conceptual discussion. They don't represent any kind of final artwork. In all cases, the artwork would be developed by an artist and presented to the City Council for consideration at a later date. And these conceptual designs would guide that final artwork if that's what you'd like to see.
So the first element is an enhanced reading cubby wall, or maybe redesigned is a better description. There is an existing cubby wall in the architectural design as it stands. This is the image from the staff report. The current design has two large reading cubbies and then a cluster of three smaller cubbies at different levels there in the wall. The ad hoc committee has re-envisioned this wall with five unique cubbies, each featuring a different children's literary theme. You have space travel, jungle, fairy tale, enchanted forest and ocean adventure there.
And there are some really creative details that are incorporated in this illustration that I will let the ad hoc members elaborate on during discussion because I know there was a lot of thought that was put into this concept and how it could connect with our community. The cubbies, though on the right side of the image there would support the two tables that are programmed for this area providing seating for families and groups and offering space for activities in collaborative learning. However all the cubbies will be spaced so that tables can be added if additional collaborative spaces are needed in the future.
Let's see next a sculpted tractor element is proposed near the entrance to the children's area Not only would this be an engaging element that draws patrons into the space, but it would also serve a functional role with integrated shelving for special displays on one side and seating on the other side. And again, this is a conceptual image. The actual piece would have to be carefully designed to maintain appropriate paths of travel around it And for safety, to discourage climbing or other unintended uses. And what that would mean is that in the final design things like the tractor tires, the bumper, the front grill would be designed generally flush with the rest of the design to minimize footholds and handholds so that kids couldn't climb up on it.
Now if we zoom out This is the image and I think it was attachment to the staff report. There are several additional proposed elements that are shown in this illustration. You have larger than life monarch butterflies suspended from The butterfly theme could also be incorporated in future artwork outside the library, which would be developed following the library opening.
Cloud-shaped lights provide functional overhead art to complement the butterflies and actually five lights similar to the ones pictured there were already included in the children's area architectural design so those are already going to be incorporated into space. There's also an illuminated sign at the entrance to the children's area. The idea here is that this would be a changeable sign that could be used to highlight special events or activities, and then while we're still on this image it's also proposed Electrical and audiovisual infrastructure is installed to strategic overhead locations. That would allow for the addition of other digital or multimedia elements later on after the library has opened, and once the children's area usage programming needs and spatial constraints are better understood.
The animal footprints projected onto the floor in this image are one such idea. Also proposed are a couple of additional murals. There's already the one behind and alongside the big tree that was part of that initial approved artwork. Now, opposite the tree on the south wall of the early childhood area, the committee is proposing a farm scene with a barn and a variety of farm animals.
And then a third mural at a location to be determined would depict a southern mammoth, which would be the kind that was discovered during the construction of the Meridian Hills development. And for all of the mural elements it's suggested by the ad hoc committee that the city engage a local artist to create the original designs which could then be printed on vinyl and affixed to the walls.
And so if City Council supports the concepts proposed by the Ad Hoc Committee, the next step would be to coordinate development of the final artwork designs which should be brought back to City Council for consideration. For the cubby wall and tractor elements it's recommended that we engage Studio Y for design and fabrication since they Specializing creating things like this for high traffic public areas where safety and durability is a priority. And since they're already working on the trees, they have indicated that they could also prioritize the reading cubbies and tractor ahead of the library completion. That would be as long as we can get the final design approved and the artwork in production by October.
Library architect LPA Inc. would also need to be engaged to redesign the cubby wall to accommodate those new designs, which involves modifying the wall dimensions, cubby locations, lighting and electrical. LPA would also be asked to design the overhead elements, the butterflies, cloud lights. And the electrical and audiovisual infrastructure to make sure that their installation works with the lighting design. The HVAC system conforms to building and safety standards, and doesn't impair the fire suppression system. LPA would also be consulted regarding that illuminated sign. And then to actually get the work done, LPA would prepare a construction change directive which is essentially a revision to the architecture plans So that the library contractor can complete the modifications and consider any associated change orders.
So, the total cost for the entirety of the proposed art elements is not known at this time. Based on preliminary discussions with Studio Y, the cost for the reading cubbies would likely range from $35,000 to $50,000 each The tractor element would range from $50,000 to $65,000 and design fees are 5% of the artwork cost. The estimated budget listed in the staff report of $331,000 represents the top end of those ranges.
But that does not include costs for the other art elements, like the murals. We would have to negotiate a cost once an artist has been identified. It also doesn't include redesigned costs by LPA, construction modifications or installation costs for the art elements, all of which will be determined based on City Council direction and brought back with the artwork designs for consideration.
Currently, there's $46,500 in unencumbered art funds in the library project. So no appropriation is needed to get started on design development of the tractor and reading cubbies. Additional funding for their fabrication installation as well as the cost associated with the other elements discussed in the report would come from the Art in Public Places Fund. Currently, the estimated fund balance Accounting for all the currently funded art projects is about 2.87 million.
Let's see, and so the staff recommendation, several things that we're looking for direction on. First of all regarding the various conceptual artwork elements presented this evening, the cubby wall tractor, suspended butterflies, entrance signage, audio visual infrastructure in the murals And then if you're in agreement, direct staff to enter an agreement with Studio Y for design development drawings in an amount not to exceed $16,000.
Direct staff to obtain a proposal from LPA for architectural and engineering services associated with the council supported elements. That would include preparing the required construction change directive And then finally directing staff to select, to coordinate the selection of an artist to complete the mural artwork outlined in the report if you agree with that approach.
So that concludes my reports. I know the ad hoc members will have more to add and of course staff is here for any questions.
Thank you. Do we have any questions of staff? Is there no? Okay, you can go
first.
Thank you for the presentation thank you for the work that went into this both city staff and ad hoc it clearly took time effort and energy on the In our packet, there was a children's area cubby wall architectural design. I believe this is the original version as illustrated here. Is this a secondary concept? Where was this concept and what was originally going to be on this wall in the original designs?
Yeah, I think it will help that. There we go, that one. Has that always been the concept that we were looking at or has this been modified at some point since the draft?
1:29 – 1:3513 turns
This, and Jeremy can correct me if I'm wrong but this was the original design that the architect included in the original design when it was approved by City Council. You've seen other iterations of this in some of the artwork that have been brought forth where they gave it different treatments so it may have looked different but as it stands right now without any modifications this would be essentially what you're getting.
So this is being constructed with the library as of
now. I can always phrase these questions better immediately after asking them, I figure that out. This is what has been designed and paid for at this point correct? Thank you. Looking at the neck, I think it's the next slide if you would Mr. Ball, the cubbies have we gone to library staff and asked their reaction to the cubbies as far as usability programming and desirability of having these cubbies in that location?
We have, we've spoken with our library director. She was pleased, pretty pleased to see the concept. She enjoyed them, she thought they were very good. Her main concern was that we retain the collaborative spaces and so we went through a few renditions with the ad hoc committee to make sure that we could have spaces for tables and clearance requirements between the tables so that we could retain those We also met with our interior designers and showed them this, and we met with our library consultant Linda Demers who did a lot of space planning for the library and really determined how many tables we need and how many chairs we need based on a lot of community input actually.
They didn't really have too much to comment on the actual designs themselves. They just cautioned that we Make sure that we don't overdo it and make sure that we You know find a compromise just make sure that we're not Just overdoing the artwork that it might age itself over time but but that was generally their comment they also They had very strong feelings about retaining collaborative seating areas.
Their concern was just that, you know, most parents come in with more than one children and this really provides a great location for them to meet together and work together and sit together in interesting spaces. Our librarian thinks these will be the most popular collaborative spaces in the library. It's good to know
And as I'm looking at this image, there's two that have tables and two chairs Is it proper to presume that those are movable furniture and would be able to move to the other cubbies for collaboration?
Correct They are movable our furniture planned for the libraries it stands now only showed two tables because the other rendition that Mr. Ball just showed you had Smaller cubbies that weren't really appropriate for tables. It just had the two in the furniture plan Talking this through with the ad hoc we think it's a great idea Especially if collaborative spaces are going to be really popular That would allow us to add more tables in the future if that was something that was needed And
leading with I am not an artist, I noticed really graphic designs here that elicit emotion and themes. And the tables and chairs are literally black and white? Is that something that would be built in, the furniture we built into those sorts of spaces or would they continue to be black and white? They would absolutely not be black and white. Thank you sir. That's all I have on that one.
Yeah, that's could you explain for my memory how the art in public places and I say you it may be Mr. Bollivite, Mr. Laurentowski, maybe Mr. Gagahania, how the Art in Public Places Fund gets rejuvenated? How funds move into that and what kind of future projections we have for that category?
Sure, so you know Art in Public Places funds our developer impact fees. Developers have an opportunity to either build artwork into their project or pay an in-lieu fee to the city so that the city could use it for projects such as this. The in-lieu fee is 1% of construction costs not land value costs. So depending on a development project and council member Dugato might know construction costs better than me, but for instance Hitch Ranch if If they were to pay an in-lieu fee Let's just say their construction costs were four hundred thousand dollars for a single family home and you have 750 homes You would take 1% of that building valuation which which could be substantial. I
But they could also potentially drive those funds back into the communities.
They could, they have that opportunity to use that funding so if they decided to build artwork into their community it would have to still be at that equal value and they would have to show that to the city in order to do it.
And would we as a council have input into what art they would put at that value in their?
Absolutely, it'd be very similar to we just went through with the daily project.
Thank you very much
1:35 – 1:4116 turns
I got a question on the on the cubby wall area. If you can go to that page where it shows the cubby wall and yeah, that one right there. OK, so this is what is being designed. We have a graphic or we have an interior designer On this project, does that mean that when this library is built, this would be a bleach white wall with even bleach white cabinets and chairs on there? Would there be something on that wall we get if we didn't go ahead and do any additional cubby work?
Sure. So the cubbies themselves are part of the library cabinetry or carpentry work. So it's all wood products built by a carpenter The beams there, I kind of pointed them out to some of you when we went and visited the library. There's brackets in the ground where the wood beams would be installed. There's barn style lights as far as the paint color that hasn't been chosen for the backdrop. There has been paint colors chosen for the inside of the cubbies I believe there's an orange color and a blue color, kind of vibrant colors for the children's area.
Correct but is there a mock-up of what this would look like that the designer put together? Because what I'm seeing is we're judging between Basically a black line sketch of a wall thinking that if we don't do anything, we're gonna get literally just that right there. But I know it wouldn't be that.
Yeah, we unfortunately don't have like a 3D rendering of what this actually looked like when this part of the interior design was presented to us. It was more paint samples rather than actual like a rendering of any sort.
Okay, because the rest of the walls in the library I'm assuming, hopefully I'm assuming that they're not going to be just blank walls with nothing on
them. There's a lot of other imagery throughout the library there's historical photos, there's historical photos on vinyl wall wraps and things of that sort throughout the entire library
Okay, because I'm having to weigh this blank picture versus something else so I'm having a hard time seeing the difference between those because we don't have a We don't have a baseline to judge this off of so I was wondering if we had anything but it seems like we don Yeah,
unfortunately. We
don't Okay I have a couple more questions, but anyone else has any more questions? Casher, what do you think?
No. I just wanted to hear from the ad hoc committee when the timing was right. Okay.
While you're thinking about your question, I found another one. Go ahead. I saw it recommended in here that if we were to move forward, we would go back to Studio Y creations with the discussions that we've been having about consultants and with challenging some of the presentations that Studio Y has brought to us before even questioning some The pricing or the cost-benefit to the pricing is there what benefit do we have? Or what reason would we want to go back to directly to studio Y creations if we were to move forward and Is that an option to not go to them?
Absolutely. The only real opportunity for the City Council is timing and We're obviously in the middle of construction If we were to go to like an RFP process or something like that where we would select a company and select an artist Like a call for artists is what we normally do. It would just be a very long process, usually several months just to get those things. Actually it was interesting, we went back and looked at all of the art projects that we've been involved with over the last several years and none of them have been completed in sooner than like a year-and-a-half from start to finish And so so it would just be a longer process but we could certainly do something like that if the City Council desired
a Longer process that would push this element with that could push this element from not being Completed at the time that the library would open
correct. Yeah, I think if we The only option to get this done Along with the library construction on the same schedule would be to contract with Studio Y at this point Do you feel that
Studio Y provides the best cost efficiency with artwork?
You know, artwork is really hard to judge and to explain because it is a hand. It is a specialty. It's done by hand. And it's done custom. A lot of times when we do artwork, we set a budget for artwork. Every single project we've done in the city, even the tree, we came originally to City Council and said hey, we think this is an appropriate budget for artwork. And then when we do a call for artists, the artist kind of show us concepts of what they can do with that budget And then there is a lot of value decisions as you go through that process, because you look at what's being proposed and it goes to the art commission and it goes to the city council. And there's opportunities at that time to say that's not the value that I would expect out of something.
And a lot of times those artworks get rejected. So, you know they gave us a range of budget numbers that they said they can do this work for. You know we could always set that budget at whatever we want to set it at and they would have to work within the confines of that budget. So is it worth $35,000 to $50,000 for a cubby? That's a difficult question to answer.
1:42 – 1:4811 turns
I had a good question and just lost it. Yes, the tractor. We mentioned that you'd have to make the grill flat and take the realistic wheels away because it could be a climbing hazard. Is there a is that just a thought or is there some sort of I guess ADA ruling or safety liability thing? Or were you just
So it's really similar to playground equipment, right? When we build playground equipment we're showing something that can be climbable.
That is a climbable thing like you should
be climbing it. It is but there's certain risk there and maybe the city attorney could even chime in about if you're providing something that can be climbed are you opening yourself up for risk if somebody should get injured on that apparatus As a city, we try and reduce our risk as much as possible, as you know. And so we would instruct that artist to provide an artwork that isn't climbable, that minimizes any child's ability to climb it because we wouldn't want to assume that risk if something happened to that child.
And I think ultimately it would be a risk assessment for the city as to how much does it want, a climbable tractor within the library where you don't have the same safety cushion that you would have in a park for if someone fell. You wouldn't have that soft material that they could potentially land on so there'd be some safety assessment that would need to be made.
Okay, so we'll put hay under it then so you can cushion it. Sounds good. We can get that pretty cheap.
If I can follow up on that. I think what we're describing is that it's not supposed to be climbable, so if it's a playground, I get it, we gotta have soft... It's natural to think and I also hear if it could be climbed then we need to be careful. This dais could be climbed. That podium can be climbed. We don't put soft things around those in case school children come in on a tour. How legally do we determine when we need to be presuming risk versus when we don't need to be presuming risk. I'd love some clarity and I tease but I really would like the clarity around how do we determine when something that is not intended to be climbable, it might even have a sign that says don't climb, is a risk factor for us?
I mean, I think if you're opening up a space for children specifically because this is in the children's component of the library. I think you need to be a little bit more cautious with the understanding that children could climb something, you know? So that's part of the assessment that you would do but Yes, I agree with you. There's always some risk of liability to everything and you're not gonna be able to reduce all risks but with respect to this, this is a proposal by staff to really try to minimize that risk so that people are going to the library for the purpose of reading and being engaged in what the library brings and not to make this playground equipment. I think that's the concept behind reducing Enticement for children because that's sometimes what's looked at in terms of you know, did you bring the nuisance to you by creating something that would entice children to then and it's an attractive nuisance essentially.
And how long would a risk assessment like that sounds like something a consultant would do How long would a risk assessment take to to develop? And and wouldn't it also include mitigating factors again. This is broader than just the the tractor It's everything we're doing here in the library, and I went back from watched We have a lot of input from the city council. We had some discussions about if kids can reach the trees and if they cannot reach the branches, it is broader than just the tractor.
Type of sculpted Tractor, I mean we'd want to make it as realistic as possible. So wouldn't take away from the feature so that you know It's something that's still attractive to two children but we would discuss it internally with staff and we have sort of a Risk management team but also rely on the experts of our staff who know playground equipment well And we would make it determine the height and yeah You know other features of whatever that proposal proposed tractor would look like to see if there's any type of.
You know dangers or possibility is I mean you can have a child climb up on the shelves right. That's not attractive to so it just one of those things were at a point we would just be you know. Sculpt Ellie looking at a sculpted tractor that has limited opportunities for for any risk for any children and Again, we can't I can't account for everything and that's what we would you know have y'all take a look at
And councilmember means if I may You know when we look at things like this as well because if I was six I would be all over that thing and I know our mayor would too and so You know, we also have to think about library operations. I mean if kids can climb on it they're going to climb on it and that means our library staff are constantly telling kids to stop climbing on it and you know something like this just looks so fun to climb, so fun to be on top of and so that's just also another consideration that we kind of have to think about is this just gonna be a nuisance where our library staff are going nuts trying to keep kids from being on it?
1:48 – 1:5912 turns
Yeah, I just.
The things that the two of you argued about, that you were excited about. What were some of the areas that were compromises? So we'd just love to hear your thought process getting to where we
are. I think we're in staff questions. I
do have one staff question. It's more of a clarification for the other council members that these are not two-dimensional Cubbies, these are going the reason that I think we would be moving forward with that specific Company is because these are inserts three-dimensional inserts The the shapes are three dimensional. The the different nuances are three-dimensional you can there they're curved there you can touch them feel them very much like the the trees so that's and it's just inserted into a Just like a six by nine pole. So I just want to make sure that that's correct and clarified
Absolutely, correct We kept out calling them shower stalls so it would be like a shower stall full 3d around that the back Would most likely be painted to match these sculpture elements around the side But the sides and the fronts in and or it would be 3d elements
Thank you There's no more questions we'll go ahead and see if there any speakers
I do not have any speaker cards for this particular item.
No speakers? All right, okay moving to discussion then all right ad hoc committee explain yourselves
Well, I think it's important to look at how we got here. Right? We were presented trees originally. We kind of said go back and even, I believe it was said spend more, you know, potentially spend more money but make this a destination, make this a place that puts us on the map a little bit right from that standpoint as a library and What we got from that, you know, we were overwhelmingly disappointed with at the last time we discussed this. So the concept here is to kind of create that, to spark that creativity with kids but also to tie some Moorpark elements two things. So this wall originally was thought about as less of the cubby wall as less of Moorpark and originally more of like, you know, diving into the different stories, the kids' stories.
So each one kind of had a different theme. As we progressed and moved through it, we did add some elements. You'll see Anacapa Island in there next to the boat. The tiger could absolutely be painted to be like Neil, the tiger at the Moorpark Zoo, right? And we could be intentional about the other animals as well with animals that are at the Moorpark Zoo. Things that are not reflective in this image could also be, I mean again we're hiring an artist. Studio Y they are artists right there and so it gives us the opportunity to not be generic. We're not buying something off the shelf Let's make it special. So when you talk about the space theme, obviously this is generic but what if you put the Mars helicopter and you're landing on Mars or something there?
The Mars helicopter was developed by Aerovironment right here in Moorpark. They've gone to the schools and flown it, right? And it has that opportunity to create some tie-in to Moorpark while still creating this fantasy adventure space, you know the Hobbit house shape. What if you took the Berkenshaw, thank you. Berkenshaw property and created the shape of the building to be like the Berkenshaw house obviously very different that we're creating this fantasy land around it but what if you had that element of just the roof line and the window placement so that it kind of gave homage to Moorpark a little bit more, and those are things because we're hiring an artist to do this.
We absolutely could do that. You know the castle element I learned fairly recently it was doing a little bit of research on the history of hot air balloons in Moorpark and there you know there was a history of a lot of hot air balloon companies here and launches here And obviously that time has passed, but you could do a hot air balloon element. You could bring in different things. So I think there's opportunity and I would love your specific thoughts too on potential opportunities while still keeping it fantasy and children.
To have that Moorpark tie, I think helps create a really unique space. When visiting some other libraries we've seen you know they might do an image from a book right? That's very specific but I think we have an opportunity here to create a more generic From a from a book standpoint, but but create a more specific from a Moorpark standpoint with some of this and count throughout the county.
When we talk about like the tractor I think there's There's opportunity when you think of a tractor wheel. A smaller wheel like in the picture could be a seat, right? And if it's set up to be a seat and designed to be a seat, depending on how they sculpted it, you can still have that wheel element but it's more of a seat instead of a step up higher and again that just depends on how develop the other parts of that. A large wheel could be something that they intentionally could climb in, you could put a pillow in there and it could be another reading nook in a large wheel of a tractor but the idea of a tractor as you walk in, the original art that we were presented was apricots boxes that spilled out into the hallway covered up stone that we're already paying for, and you lose the consistency of all the branding that was established for the different areas of the library by covering that up.
So I don't... By taking that part out, those elements and kind of leading people in with the tractor. A, it has the agrarian theme of which we've done the architecture for the building and established the Moorpark heritage there. We can do something like the mammoth on the wall as the mural. And again, rather than doing dinosaurs or something from a book It's making it Moorpark, but it's giving you some of those same elements of things, um, but bringing it in.
Uh, and that was kind of the root of how we landed here. We haven't talked much about that illuminated sign. The idea there could even be a, uh, it could be a TV screen with some fun, but to kind of project that programming specific to the kids area or You know, we had talked at our last meeting about maybe this is dinosaur week and so we have an image up there that's related to that or different programming elements as you kind of walk in.
But you don't necessarily change that architecture from the outside. The monarch butterflies again give the opportunity to tell a story of the monarch butterfly local to this area and conservation efforts. There's lots of, lots of different things there we talked about as a ad hoc potentially. And I know as of right now it was on the schedule and then it was kind of taken off the schedule of doing some art outside of the library. But if you potentially did butterfly wings that you could stand in front of that kind of create that That's Again, thinking about Very Hungry Caterpillar and stories like that. Trying to have those little Easter egg elements I think in the art we could put something specific from the zoo in the art for that category but just creating something that is fun, that is for kids, it's engaging but also is Moorpark.
Okay, so we had the idea to go like agrarian. We've got like nature scenes, the mammoth fits in with that, clouds, butterflies, trees, tractor. I understand the link towards space and fantasy stuff, and pirates and mermaids. But I feel like without explaining all of that it gets lost in kind of like a rogue direction. Like this is a... And all of a sudden, whoa! We just kind of... The next cubbyhole could be the cowboy riding a dinosaur. Might as well put that up there too. What does everyone think about that? What do kids want to see, it's random stuff all the time.
I just wanted to give Councilmember Delgado a chance to like... I would love to hear your thoughts on it.
No, I mean his thoughts were collective of mine as well but it was... I understand what you're saying too that it seems a little bit just not as cohesive but at the same time it was trying to tie in the story element. So, whereas before it was just one theme and everything was one theme that is why one of the reasons why different themes were chosen and to give kids that had different likes dislikes opportunities to find their nook to find their spot.
And just so that it wasn't all one maybe agrarian theme
1:59 – 2:1416 turns
In terms of the question, I thought initially and that's why I wanted to hear your thinking behind it because these are such generic images. It's hard to get a sense of what your thought process was. Now I better understand what you were hoping to do. The other thing that's more of a comment than a question is I was thinking it's an opportunity to tie in different genres And so this was kind of dominated by just science fiction and fantasy. So I liked what you were saying about pulling in some thematic Moorpark elements, and then like the Yanicapa Islands things like that. So I better understand where you were going. I think on the face of it, I had a similar reaction which is it seemed like a... It's just a very stark thematic shift from what the rest of the library was But I can see where there could be like Elements of continuity between that and the rest of the library The one thing that wasn't answered in the staff report.
I just wanted to hear you're talking about was the one of the murals that we talked about last time and discussed would still harken to like like real people from more parks past was that still a priority because One of the things here, as we've had before is like we've been really artifact heavy and so we're introducing more artifacts and fewer images. And so I was just wanting to hear from you about where do you see some element not just photos but like murals of the kind that things that we discussed before? I'd appreciate hearing your thoughts on it.
Well, the mural part of this, our concept on that was to actually hire a muralist that's local. Rather than using Studio Y to create murals and send them here and install them, if we hired an artist and if we did it specifically where they created more at a smaller scale but with the ability to blow that up to fit the wall It gives us a couple things. It gives us the ability to reprint an area if there's damage and do that, but it also allows maybe that original art could hang in City Hall. It could hang in a public building in some way, so you kind of have that dual purpose with that.
The idea was to, behind the tree, to kind of keep that orchard feel. So that orchard certainly could incorporate some of that picking of the apricots and the people in that experience while keeping it I think still fun for kids. I think where we went last time got really historical And really, it just didn't look fun to me in where we had gone in the past. But I think there's still opportunity to do that certainly throughout the rest of the library as well.
There has been conversation about more of that historic imagery and how that could lend itself towards people
So the thing about art, I mean obviously it's all subjective. So like...I don't want you to think that I'm attacking anything you put out there. I'm not very tactful in speaking anyways so it might just sound like it but It's all subjective so your ideal library is totally different than anyone else's ideal library A lot of these things are just you know, it's I can argue what I think it should be or how it should be done there and it's total respect to anyone else's idea. But one thing I do want to get into is why does it cost almost a Ferrari to make these plastic holes in the wall? I don't get it and someone please Give me an idea of why it costs so much money for this kind of stuff.
I think it's important to recognize that there's different Ferrari models that may or may not be an accurate statement,
sir.
That
should have been asked in staff questions. Was it? You said that should have been asked in staff questions.
I do think what Studio Y provides, and I'm okay if we go a different direction for sure. But I think what they provide with their expertise is the high touch Hi, you know I mean kids with sticky hands that you know this is going to be cleaned often. This isn't our logo on the back that no one's ever touched right? This is just going to get a lot more wear and tear and so by choosing a vendor that does That type of work obviously you you do pay a little more now I think what yes a lot. Now, I think what Mr. Lermontovsky said in his presentation which I think we should absolutely take to heart is we can say hey look we've got $15,000 for each one.
What could we get for that? Does that mean the back is flat and the sidewalls are flat and there's a little bit of elements on the front that are three-dimensional versus as much three-dimensional as maybe was talked about? Maybe. Is that okay? Maybe, yeah. I think that's a worthy conversation and doesn't necessarily have to change what the vendor is. We also showed this element to StudioY in a past edition, right? This has changed many times through our ad hoc.
And one of the original versions, each cubby wasn't symmetrically the same size, exactly. And so it was purposely changed with the idea that we're creating say an archway like he's described as a shower element that you could just slide in and all five elements would be the same versus having an architect have to change the shape on this one and then this one You know, this one's a little taller and this one's not arched at the top. And you know there's different ways that so that could reflect in the price they didn't see that version they saw an earlier version right? So these are estimates and I know rightfully so Mr. Lermontovsky is concerned with timing right which is why we're here today because this allows time for if If you decide to move forward with elements like this, I would love to get your thoughts and feedback on maybe some of the parts.
Maybe a totally different theme in one of these to hit a different genre and then how we can tie that back to Moorpark so that we make this absolutely exceptional. We're gonna then as an ad hoc go through that Try and create that, make that as easy as possible to send to Studio Y for their development so that we're not getting back their interpretation every time of what we're trying to say.
One thing I want to be a little wary of is that, I don't want to get into a design by council thing where each one of us picks a cubbyhole to have something in there. Mine would have a train in it, I'm just going to tell you that because I love trains and the thing but I wouldn't expect us to all have some random thing in there which is why with the idea of a theme, I like that idea of having it thematic instead of having so many different I'm not going to get into all the elements in there, but the part that really gets me is when we budgeted this thing out at $350,000. That was back in 2024. And what I'm thinking about $350,000 and I've designed the inside of places before and I know what it costs And I'm thinking $350,000 we're putting in an art installment in there Around that art installment.
We hired a interior decorator That's gonna make the place look like we actually decorated it. I'm assuming correct Okay So the art piece was more of like a centerpiece to that that kids there and that was what I was I was Envisioning and now we fast forward and we're about to look at spending 95% more on the art project so Back in 2024 We thought $350,000 was going to do what it was gonna do for that. And we were okay with that we didn't say that we had to put in more money because we're not gonna get enough of a of an impact off that but when we did I agree with you that I would like to see more of it when we had the tree, but the fact that the tree took up all of that money makes me want to say that well, that's all the money we budgeted for it.
We have $46,000 left over. Let's go buy a real tractor and let kids climb on it and the rest I'm joking. So, not joking. I think the Art in Public Spaces Fund gets looked at like, it's just art in public spaces. We can throw that money at anything or we can just waste it. I don't think we should ever waste any money. All those dollars in there, those are paid by developers and the whole point of that is as we develop this city out, we're supposed to be burning that money to keep up with the development to keep the city looking nice.
Now in our last meeting we did something that was probably a little bit more out of the box for art and public spaces, however very much within the confines of that. And that was putting money into the High Street Art Center doing brick work, doing the paving work which, not paving work, the concrete work I think that was a great way to spend that money. So, I don't want to be stuck in a point where we're saying that we have so much money in the Art and Public Spaces Fund that we have to just keep throwing it at things because I have a lot of things we could do with money like that. That's why I look at this money as as it not just being throwaway cash, but what are we actually getting for $300,000?
When it's $15,000 for a cubbyhole. That was a low ball price. I still ask why is it $15 thousand for a cubby hole when a tractor, a fake tractor that kids don't want to climb on is going to be about $65,000 and a real tractor is how much Tom looked at that today?
I'm not saying get a real tractor in there right off the shelf, but also you know You go to Underwood Farms kids climb on those tractors all the time They're they're meant to be climbed on
climbed up on take a picture can the tractor or? Why not sit in that seat and read a book? So maybe let people climb on it. I'm not as concerned about those types of liabilities, but that might just be the problem with me in the first place. So I have a hard time with the cost. That's my biggest thing. The cost is one thing and the cubby thing, I don't know if I like that direction.
Me personally, I just don't know if I like the cubby thing itself. The tractor element, if we designed a tractor and built that, I could see that, get behind that, like to be as real as possible. Also those footings that we talked about the grill holes I think it'd be safer if you can climb up the footings as opposed to trying to climb some slippery slick, you know tractor there just Knowing from experience.
I do want to point out and and you bring up a lot of great points And I don't you know, I'm okay If we didn't move forward with any of this so we stuck with the trees right? So I Don't think it gives you the wow factor Just having the trees and that was what we originally said. And at that meeting, we said we were OK spending more to get more right? How much
more? We never
said
how much more.
We never said how much more. And so you know, and is this too much more? Is this you know I mean there's certainly a conversation we had with that, but I also think that when you stick with just the one theme, like the trees and the tractor, and that's it. Right? I think it doesn't necessarily open the door for this is a creative space for kids. And if all you show is animals and they're not into Right? Then, you know. But if they're into princesses and there's a princess spot like that gives them that escape or that's their spot or that's where they find. Or they look at it and seeing the mermaid I want to book on mermaids right? Like this is about reading at the end of the day right? This is about getting kids excited to learn to read, to read stories to sit with their parents and read those stories.
So, you know, intentionally putting elements in there that, you know, is that a whale? Yeah, let's find a book about a whale. Like it helps create that environment for kids.
2:14 – 2:2414 turns
No, I see what you mean. But you can see how the possibilities are endless. 100%. That's the part where you've got to maybe have to cut it down to a direction. So when you mentioned like some of the things like that Berkenshaw House or another one you pointed out, I see that kind of fitting into it. I just personally am not really into the separate plastic Adorned things like that. I think they I Might not just be into this type of artwork. I think it's a lot of money for hand sculpting Things that come off as dentist office plastic, you know furniture. I just I'm worried about that. I think the cost efficiency of that those those dollars aren't going far enough For what? That is I mean
So another way that you could achieve something a lot simpler and a lot cheaper, right? Is we had a carpenter that was gonna do the wood elements on the original niches and kind of build that out. Right? You could build a frame around a niche doesn't have to be an arch it could be whatever shape but you know and then you could still put a flat picture on the back in a standard bench right I mean you could simplify this down and achieve a You know, kind of what I was describing as trying to inspire the kids.
They don't necessarily need it to be three dimensional. They don't necessarily need it to be the plastic stuff that you're talking about and that's something that potentially could be done without a studio Y and without necessary because now we're just talking about applying maybe a vinyl to the back and you frame out the rest in wood and you still have kind of a series of these At a much lower cost.
I don't know that it's determined how they're made. I believe the idea was to utilize the architecture firm or the interior design firm that kind of backed that. Mr. Lermontovsky, I don't know if you want to elaborate?
They had something similar.
Yeah sure so we've already reached out to our interior designers and they have done something similar with butterflies frankly they were cloth made butterflies and they said it was really interesting because the light kind of shone through them they were larger than life butterflies you know their concerns are really where are they located in this particular room and actually most of our rooms To preserve the Exposed beams and things like that. The air conditioning equipment is on the side coming off of a wall so it's blowing straight into the Children's area, so their concern obviously was where these going to be located Last thing we want is a bunch of butterflies getting tangled up in in wire But we would have our interior designers look at that and spec a product, not a custom product per se but a product that you could purchase.
Okay right so I think the concept you got together for that was great and the execution of that portion right there, I like that. Now if we were to go to Studio Y They have a certain way they handle things. This is the type of art they're going to do, just like if you were a sculptor and I asked you to do an art project for the city it would not be a mural it would be a sculpture so I think taking that offline and doing it like that is much better. We're involving more interior design and artistic themes that we're bringing up here.
I don't, I'm not confident in bringing Studio Y into all of these things. I've just seen where that money is going and frankly didn't go far enough and that's why we're back into this whole pickle and we're now bringing them back again To put us back in the same spot. That's my
issue. So, the last meeting we had with StudioY's concept was also right around this price point and so from our understanding it was we weren't wowed enough. So what can we do to make it feel like it's worth that cost if we're going to go with you know StudioY and do something where that's more of a wow factor? why we were going more with that three-dimensional, tactile nook as opposed to just a wood frame and a background with a vinyl cutout of it.
So I think the studio, the why factor of the last one wasn't that it wasn't wow. It was that it was that much money for that little wow. If that was a normal price of, you know I think we were joking around but actually kind of serious like let's go to Home Depot buy a bunch of wood and we can paint something up there. You know if it was that cost that would be okay with it not you know scrutinize it so much but that is a lot of money making plastic look like wood when wood does the exact same thing as wood.
But it's a very different end product that has different uses and different amount of wear capability
Sure then replace it once a year.
The
different ones keep you fresh, yeah. No so I just think it was just way too much money for that. I could not see that. I mean I'm an engineer. I build machines all the time. I just bought a huge machine The price of what I'm looking at versus what I'm getting on these things just makes zero sense. We're talking about design time and welders and programming, it's all art at the end of the day.
artistic talents and all these types of projects, and I'm not seeing it. I can't figure this out. I can't see how this much money is getting us only these things. That's the part that I'm stuck on. And I can't in good faith go into a scope creep that's 95% more than we've already had before. That's where I'm stuck. And we had a timeline discussion with, well if we don't do this then we're not gonna have that ready when we open the library up.
I'm not as concerned about that and we're building a $37 million library thing is very very expensive. If it's not ready for grand opening then I don't know what we really lose on that I want to get things done right. I don't wanna be stuck with timelines that, you know, make us spend too much money on things so...
I agree. I don't think it's the be-all end-all of the discussion but I certainly think that you do lose an element when if you're opening a library and the children's area is under construction or feels remarkably incomplete or you have to close it later to do an install. I think those are elements that are worth considering now Is it possible? Yes. Is at the end of the world, probably not. But would it be much better if we can actually create a plan and do this on time?
I absolutely think so. So I think I think where you know, if direction of council is the cost is too high when the direction of which I totally understand and respect I think the direction before was raise the cost to make it better. So if this, if you don't feel like the value is in this to make it better for that cost, what is the threshold of costs? And I think the ad hoc would absolutely go back and try and hit a different, you know, achieve a different metric. Now, if you don�t like the concepts at all and you don�t want attractor, like that needs to be talked about too.
I think to me, the most important element for potentially Studio Y to be involved in might be that tractor element just because of the continuity with the trees as well and how that's all gonna look like together in the room versus you bring in a totally different construction thing. not work quite as well. But I'm open, certainly. And if you hate Studio Y and you want to go the other direction, open to that too. No,
I don't hate any company. I'm just saying that I don't think the impact for the amount of dollars is adding up on it. I think that's my only problem. And if I'm stuck with having to pick and More park people or even in the area than going to some, you know big company
and
2:24 – 2:3214 turns
But if I was gonna break it down like I could get behind talking about the tractor thing if you wanted cohesiveness and Something that wasn't too climbable. I still think you should go sit on it somehow. I mean Whatever The cubby wall thing. I think that's That's too much for what that is. I like the butterflies, I like the clouds. That's nice. The murals definitely because that's you know extra walls but in your ad hoc committee meetings did you ever talk to the interior decorator?
Not directly, we did not.
Okay so we're trying to solve a problem that someone else was supposed to have already solved but we have never seen it?
I don't necessarily agree with that. I mean I think that the architect had designed a space right and then Studio Y when they were told create a different concept took that space and took it a direction right What we did is kind of scrapped the architectural part and StudioY and looked at it as a whole in that way. Now, we could go back to the architectural element, right? Your line drawing up here and again you could create spaces within those three and not change any of those architectural elements would certainly save money because you're not going back to the architect, um, you know, to read it, redo anything from that standpoint.
Um, you know, which is achievable too.
Also one of the reasons why we had the six kind of equal sizes as well. We realized that the smaller cubbies were supposed to be kind of catered towards small children, but at the same time a lot of small children or most small children like to read with their parents and no parent can fit into one of those small cubbies which is why we thought you know a nice 6-foot bench can include the parent reading with the kid so there were more opportunities for more full families And I think it's important for us to be able to do that. Because we don't want to be in those spaces, which is why we also changed that whole kind of layout. That portion
of the design. Sure. So one thing I'm trying to make sense of is that we have a company that is basically giving us art installments and then But now we have the art company doing the interior decoration with the art, but the interior decorator is not really a part of that. I would envision the interior decorator being in the same room discussing what we're doing here because I think there's a plan for these things too and I want to know what they were doing because putting the butterflies and clouds up in the ceiling, that's an interior decorator realm right there. That's good, I like that.
What do they have for that wall there? I don't know what that is. Because if I ask Studio Y what that is, it's going to be a hand-sculpted plastic million dollar thing.
Well, I do believe we don't have Studio Y's image from last time. But essentially, they replaced the wood beams with their faux beams. Right? But the structure of wood beams that's in the line drawing... Do you want to pull up the line drawing on here? You know, Jeremy described right. The sorry Mr. Lerntowski described the you know that the boxes around are our wood. Right? So a carpenter framed out in wood they actually do project out which you can kind of see a little bit in those elements there will be you know upholstered Seating and I believe the backs are also upholstered in these. Is that correct?
I believe the backs are painted but as you mentioned, you know, that's that is an opportunity for something to change because it's just Essentially drywall and paint
What kind of engineering change order costs would that be to even open that up?
So that's, you know, that's something that, you know, that's obviously why we've brought this to you now. You know if we're considering this cubby wall, we kind of have to make a decision if it's going to change. And that's why we've kind of brought it to you now with the budget to see if this artwork is gonna move forward because nothing else is critical other than that cubby wall because there are going Building that cubby wall in October That's when that framing is gonna start so we have an opportunity to change it if we want to change it now What is that going to cost?
It I don't know, you know at this point. We don't we've only got these Concepts if the City Council likes this concept of the cubby walls, we would go back to the inter designers and find out Okay, what is it gonna take to redesign this this wall? So that they could We thought through this a little bit so that is why all of the cubbies you see are the same size because it would be very hard to coordinate if these were different. So essentially we would give the artist a dimension, this is your cubby and this is what The contractor could build them, and then when they show up at the artwork they could essentially slide right in. And that was a concept so it's hard to say. It just depends on where the council wants to go what their direction is but we would still have to get together with the architect to figure out what that change would look like And there's also lighting, all of the cubbies that you see on this line drawing have down lights in the cubbies.
Now they would be part of the artwork. So it's just getting together again with their electrical engineer to redraw that and it's essentially just so the contractor has something that they could look at to build.
Okay, so if you were gonna put an estimate on that, just a guess, where would that be? $100,000 a thousand dollars 20.
I mean, I would think it's probably in the twenty thousand dollar range for the the interior designers to to redraw this And take a look at all of those electrical systems and things like that now as far as the contractor It's kind of hard to say because they've already bid this as a cubby wall, right? So they already owe us a cubby wall. So then they're gonna look at it is there more cost to changing this versus less cost?
It's hard to say the new design is slightly larger longer I think this wall is 36 feet to get the spacing between the cubbies and be able to put tables there. I think that wall extends to about 40 feet And then it's a little different because this wall is actually comes out a little bit further and is flush with the artwork where before it was the Cabinetry work or the woodwork that actually protrude a little bit more, but the wall was back I mean It's just it's just it's really up to the contractor to kind of do this this add-deduct kind of thing to find out where there might be some extra costs
Okay, and these extra costs would those come out of Art in Public Spaces funding or is that special projects?
We assume that it would because it's necessary for the artwork.
2:32 – 2:5627 turns
So again if we look at this drawing right if you were to take each of those Obviously, this would still take the architect doing plans if you made this change. But if you were to create a framing, a wood framing that's similar to the carpentry that exists in the current plan, you could even push the wall back to where it was and have that project out. You but you have the bench and you have You know, we could essentially do hire a local artist and do a vinyl on the wall behind each one. It would certainly be a cheaper route to go in that I think it still incurs some costs from the architect but I think what this gives you that the other one doesn't and Council Member Delgado touched on this is the other one kind of had those little cubbies that were small And it didn't provide the flexibility with this design.
You have the flexibility to put five tables if you want, I mean, if that really is what's successful and the collaboration, um, you know, uh, you look at a family, you know, two families might go to the library together and so the parents can sit on one side of the kids on the other or You know, it kind of gives you those spaces. So if they're being used more with the table then we add more tables versus if you go with the other design that has three small boxes and two large boxes It definitely provides a little less flexibility.
Okay, so those box designs were designed for a reason. They weren't just randomly thrown in there on obscure measurements and heights. They were in there for a reason. I've never seen what that reason looked like besides a 2D picture that's black and white.
Yeah, so they were just individual. So you know this where the three small boxes are right next to the early childhood learning area. So that's it basically was there to support that area. You know these are very very young children and when you really think about everything in the children's area you're really catering to six year old seven year olds you know that age group wants to get to 10. They're probably over in the teens section right? So they're very small children, young children. And so those three cubbies were really designed for just something fun for a young child to get into to read or get into to hang out and that was really the intent of that.
Right right, but there had to have been some sort of I mean look if I was going to design this library and I was designing cubby holes and Chairs and things. I'd at least have an idea of what that's gonna Look like on the wall their colors or what's behind you? There are pictures in the wall is it painted as a mural something so I'm having a problem because we're looking at this like it was just never designed besides just randomness
here. There's wood there, so in the plans of specifications for the library right where the carpet is shown where you know different things are shown right? You have kind of the wood color that would be in the carpentry. The wall would be painted It sounds like color is maybe to be determined on that specific wall, but it's a painted wall. It's not a mural. You know, it's a painted wall and then these elements of framing with kind of the cross beams at the top are wood is my understanding. So that is what it is, right?
I
don't know if we're going to answer the question, regardless of whether we spend more money or the same amount of money. I just wanted to continue giving you some feedback. One of the things that I appreciated about the approach was that unlike where I felt like we had some areas of disagreement in Or the direction that I see you going with this is like more contemplative spaces for kids and families, and that's nice to see. So regardless of whether we spend $100,000 less or $100,000 more, I'm appreciative of the fact that we're making the library, enhancing the asset of a library in creating those spaces so thank you for that. And then just going back to finishing my thought about the mural.
In other elements, near the railroad track on the day of the group building there are some things that we've already given homage to. We've given credit to trains, to the Mammoth. Not enough I know. So again I just wanted to state as you continue to contemplate what the rest of this space looks like The human elements because like, you know the people who drive the tractor. The people who pick the fruits and then if we're talking about like its relevance today We're not just talking about the relative importance of this over time Like agriculture in our county is still one of the most dominant elements of our economy It's changing right? Agriculture is changing But the roots of it, no pun intended, remain the same and remains just as relevant today as it was in the past.
So that's the other piece I just wanted to see is like if we can even if the initial one of the images is historical great, I think that's wonderful but I also don't want it to just be because it's historical It's because it still highly relevant today and just in the same way that you're trying to activate these designs or elements of it Children's imagination, we still have the opportunity to activate their imaginations for what agriculture looks like today and what their role in it could be. Because some of them there aren't a lot of farmers people still farming but we still need farmers. We still need people to assist in agriculture so if one of these children or their families see themselves as being able to contribute to that I think that's a great thing.
So thank you for the time and thought that you put into this as we wrestle with how much it costs and who does the work. I just appreciate the direction that it's going, what, how you're trying to tie in these different elements.
We can talk about this for the next five hours and I probably won't stop us because we'll just keep going. But personally, I think there's a lot of cool things I thought maybe saw in here. We talked about some of our concerns with prices and I think we all agree with the cost of things.
So what would be I mean, because the initial the initial 350 we looked at as a council and we said, OK, what can we get for more? Right. So and we didn't put a cap on that. Right. And so it was was an open ended thing. Obviously, we know it's not open ended and we know we need to be smart about that spending Where is the threshold with this council?
Well, I think it's hard to put a number on it because if you were to increase the price of something like this, you're going to take away from other type of projects in town that provide whatever some artistic nature to
it. So if it's $350,000, we're done with the trees and we move on and we have white walls or whatnot, right?
They're not white walls. Those walls aren't just sitting there blank white, we
haven't. Solid color wall is what is currently paid for right? So a solid color wall might not be white but that's where we're at today so if you want to go further than that and I know there is some room for murals in our budget so I'm probably not Because that was originally part of even the Studio Y and we pulled it out, right? So there is some space for some of that mural but I believe it was just the murals behind the tree. Not necessarily where we're talking about the mammoth or the barn scene into the early childhood development. Those are painted walls.
at this juncture, right? In what is approved. So if you don't wanna spend another dime then we're done, right? I mean that's the appetite but if we want to enhance, if we want to make changes, if we want to create a more collaborative space by opening up those niches in a different way That's where you know a budget would need to be discussed
correct if it was $300,000 to increase the art in the library and it was Absolutely something that would blow me out of my seat. I Can put it in there? I'm just saying for $300,000. I Don't see the benefit of that much stuff It doesn't I don't know it's not equating to me at all okay So I don't wanna actually put, I mean, I would rather do it for less than $300,000 obviously. I'd rather do it less than 100,000. I think this should not be a shrine of government waste. This is a very, very expensive project.
It's a library, it's not a playground either. Before I get more on that one, Mr. Laurentowski what is the scope of the interior decorators work on this job?
Gosh, everything from picking out wall colors to paint colors to carpet to book stacks furnishings. You name it. I mean everything you would visually see as you're walking around the library.
Okay and this person was not involved in any of these designs? Oh
we showed them to him sure yeah no we showed them to them and what did they
say?
They didn't really have an opinion specifically about the designs. They thought they were interesting and you know, they didn't necessarily say it had any conflict with the inter-design work. They did caution us just to make sure that we weren't overdoing it. I'm not sure what that really meant but they just said, you know, Careful with how many elements you put in there. Sometimes you could date yourself pretty quickly, so that's kind of what we did. We really showed them the cubby wall to try and understand timing and conflicts and what we were up, and actually quite frankly their response is that we can do all of this. There was nothing that was overly complicated It's very, very simple compared to the construction of a library. So there was nothing out that was outstanding and that is really what we looked at them for.
Direction if there was anything that we were showing them that They were worried about or that they that we were maybe going on wrong track before we got to here. So,
okay I'd like to send it back to the ad hoc with what we discussed today and see what the next round would You know some good work that's done but I'm not ready to say absolutely no to anything Definitely aren't ready to say absolutely yes because
And if I may, it seems like the main discussion is about the cubby wall and the possible cost of construction. If there's any goal of trying to meet the deadline when the library is open. So is it the desire that if the cost is the main concern, potentially keeping the existing cubby wall design and then perhaps there could still be refinements in terms of Thank you, Mr. Chair and members of the public.
And if you wanted the existing cubby hole design, that's a direction you want to go with tonight. Then the ad hoc could further refine maybe what could be on the vinyl and then the design that could be added on in the next several months, that could be brought back too but at least the critical point of whether or not we would redesign the whole cubby wall area, I mean that's really the decision I think would be helpful to have with you tonight if you wanted it to be open and available when the library opens.
Yeah, well I mean I would say keep this same design for the cubby wall work around that Take that back and figure out what we can do with it
The same design is in the new five.
No the current design without having to change designs And
so with the three small cubbies and the two large ones
yeah Okay Does everyone agree with that?
Tom That was entertaining. I'm going to be a complete contradiction with just about every statement that I make here, I think. I think what happened for me is that Studio Y has lost my trust and my confidence because we've seen what they brought forth and we've seen the pricing that they put on what they brought forth and we weren't pleased with it as it came along. And so I find myself Suspicious of the designs that might come back. These are all Creations and thoughts but by the time it comes back from studio Why are we going to be here again saying no? No, that wasn't what we intended send it back So I'll admit to that bias that I'm a little gun-shy with studio wise work And I also want to recognize that I don't want to turn Maybe it's a bit too late into a design by committee, ad hoc committee yes but by council no because I am not an artist and I will probably say that a few more times throughout this discussion.
And so I try to establish and try to figure out value how do we determine value? I do think the timing matters my strong preference would be to have this completed at the time that the library opens whatever this is whatever we decide I don't want to be silly with money if it means that we do this in phases and we get better concepts for better dollars, I wouldn't be against it. But all things considered, I'd prefer it be open.
I've been to a lot of libraries all over the world and there is a major difference to a library that is unique and to a library that is a room that was designed with an interior designer and paint and whatnot. Like, oh we had a square room and now we're going to try to make it a library. And the ones that I walk into and they've been a room that's been you know oh we're gonna have some creative ideas and throw some stuff up uh I don't want to say as an afterthought but not as a priority They just aren't interested. They don't capture and you don't want to stay in those spaces, the ones where there is interesting and unique elements I understand that I am not the target demographic for the children's area, but my wonder and awe gets the best of me quite often.
And it's fun to explore those spaces. I think it's why early on we were talking about the Camarillo Library and the pirate ship. You don't expect a pirate ship in a library. Whether or not it's good, bad, too big of a climbing structure, whatnot, it's interesting. It draws you in. You wanna see. What I'd really love for our library which from a dollar and cent standpoint is the showpiece that we've decided as a city to build I'd love for what I think is one of the most important areas of that library to also be the showpiece of the showpiece.
So, and have that library pop. I love the Easter eggs. That is a preference. I'm not an artist but I didn't see the caterpillar that was mentioned. I did see the monkey, the Neil reference in the Mars rover Not an artist not suggesting it, but your place one of the butterflies with aero environment drone like oh look at that like that sort of stuff is neat for me and stimulates my imagination. So I like those elements being in involved.
Who's involved in library and they're multiple times a week and her comment was I don't want this to take away from programming Right. Does it take away from story time does it take away from? Librarians being able to act out stories engage with groups of kids get get learning stimulated And so to hear from the library staff and the people that They may not have a short, medium or long-term goal that they're trying to accomplish but every day they're in there with those kids engaging and when they say this is cool and we think this will be the most popular part of our library it really moves the needle for me. It says okay this might be a concept that we should explore if the people that know what kids like in that space think that this could be the most popular It went from being pretty contradictory for me to really escalating it quite a bit.
I have a concern that, I had a concern that these five cubbies take away from the agrarian theme that we have everywhere else in the library. Again not an artist but then I started thinking of them as portals and when I started thinking of them as portals they worked for me If I'm reading a pirate ship book, if I'm interested in space and I'm exploring planets or whatever it might be. Those elements being different and differentiated and not consistent with the agrarian theme is an advantage. And I think it's cute. I can see myself crawling in and reading. I'm not saying this is exactly what it's going to be but if you're gonna read Lord of the Rings I'm not going to be in the spaceship one, right? I'm gonna be in the one that's a little more fantasy.
So I dig that and I think it really brings people in. I very much honor Dr. Castro's concept that we've had artifacts, we've had things, we've had specific histories, where are the people? Where are the people that made this community and I don't know that we can mix this concept or these portals with that heritage but as I look at the location map as it's up here, I don't think there is anything that takes us away Encourage that we look where that farm mural is in the mural on the other side where we can honor that in a serious way with an agrarian theme and Let this area of the library be believe more fantasy I don't think they have to be mutually exclusive, but I do think it's important element that we we continue to consider As we as we build this out especially as our showpiece.
I Love the local artists that you guys Developed that I want to get people involved having traveled and seeing lots of different museums. Universities and cities and collections. So much of it is driven by contests, right? Over the years, over hundreds of years where they go out to the public and in some ways that's the RFP process today but to go out with a contest and say all right we are looking for a seascape that includes these elements and let our high schoolers and our local artists and our art department at the local college produce items I love that idea. I don't know how feasible it is But it engages the public, and then when I walk through the library, I say oh did you know that one right there was done by my friend Renee's mom?
Or oh it was Dr. Castro's daughter that did that. It brings that connection in more than what's on the wall but who did it and how we're connected and Moorpark is such a connected Community that's what I love about our small-town feel and I think that engaging those local artists in however We do this is going to be a way to continue to honor that and build that community Skipping over a lot of that has already been covered. I really do like the realism of the tractor when I saw it I understand that is a giant bug that is floating around here.
Maybe we spend money on pest control. The realism of the tractor's exciting to me, I did look up how much real tractors were just to see if a fake tractor cost more. It does. I don't love that. Some other elements is there's a future library that when we look at our current library and we think, how do we make it better? We don't look at what libraries are doing in the future. What I'm seeing in collections and museums and libraries around the country and around the world is there's digital involvement. So I see that illuminated sign. It looks cool. It's clever. I hear that it could be replaced with a television. That's yesterday's technology but cool. It could be a television and that could be programming through that television There's also digital screens that can incorporate AI, and here we are in the 250th anniversary of the country.
And you could have a George Washington We had a digital image interacting with the kids saying, this is what I did and this is why it was important. And it could change every month in that digital programming and if it makes noise you can use headsets there's a number of these things have been figured out at other places but to allow us to develop our programming with technology as libraries develop I think is important so the illuminated sign being a place where power is run to and can be used for that sort of programming whether Digital interaction later. I like there's an electronic element to it.
I think that the wow factor matters The risk is that we send this off to Studio Y and we don't like it. And then the question is, does this walk away from the agrarian theme by having one fantasy wall? Does it take away from the agrarian theme? I don't know the answer to that. I can't really determine in my head because I don't have that space if that works.
You had asked for a couple of Elements like that. We saw that we might want as suggestions. I'll give you those now a couple of those now I There is a Pallas Verdes blue butterfly that is nearly extinct. And Pallas Verdes doesn't produce the blue butterfly, it gets produced, they get cultivated, developed into the thousands in Moorpark and they get transferred down to Pallas Verdes. So monarch butterflies are thematic and appropriate but if you're looking for little details might be cool to have blue and monarch butterflies represented because it's still here and it might give a pop of color I do love my little drone idea, but which is written next and I won't emphasize anymore because I understand I'm gonna lose that one. But those Easter eggs like that would be great.
I talked about the monkey in the caterpillar that I dig because you can find them in books. I don't think that we had a woolly mammoth here for the record. I think we have a different version of the mammoth. Do I care? I don' know an artist can tell me.
2:56 – 3:0830 turns
It's the Southern Mammoth and it's not nearly as pretty
Yeah,
and again all of these
were very conceptualized. No no it's the wrong mammoth.
Very
conceptual. Okay if it's conceptual that's fine but so then it goes down to money for me final point that I have on this topic is money. I looked at the dollars and I was just blown away like holy cow what are we doing? In hearing this discussion in hearing what the purpose is in 3D and whatnot I'm swayed somewhat to not I don't want to waste dollars. I don't think any of us want to waste dollars, but having this pop in a way that makes this our focal point, I'm not against that and it comes down to value.
If we can do something with real wood instead of fake foam painted like wood on the same location I'd love to find some of those areas to trim costs, but the Art in Public Funds Places is for art in public and this is going to be one of our primary public places. And hearing how that arts fund will likely fill back up, deploying extra money here to give it this section though the wow factor is something I am cautiously in support of, but would love to find some ways to trim some of that fat.
So how far down the rabbit hole would you chase that cost for this?
How far down the rabbit hole? Is it an endless budget number? Do
we want to be wowed by something? There's a dollar amount that does that. Are we going to find out what that dollar amount is? Or are we good with walking away from a certain cost if that's what it's gonna be? Because as I'm seeing, $300,000 got us plastic wall stuff. I don't know if that's gonna...
Yeah, I think there's a lot of validity to that perspective. We all know I'm gonna go to the dollars first and function second. And what I'm hearing is that if we do this with carpentry and we do this with vinyl, two things that I spend a lot of time asking city staff about in our one-to-ones, that we're losing a textile element, that we're losing the artwork having the light fixtures involved, we're losing some of that magic And then the question is if we don't invest that extra amount of money to make this really pop, do we end up disappointed? Do we end up like oh man look how close that was. That could have been cool and if we sacrifice a sculpture somewhere else in order to make this be what it can be, be a draw then I'm willing to sacrifice that sculpture tomorrow to get our However many million dollar library to be a true regional draw and something that we're proud of.
If it's a regional draw, and $300,000 gets or $600,000 gets us what this is, you have to pay a lot more. You have to put a roller coaster in this library to make it a regional draw. And there's a library at the end of the day. There's books in there. It's supposed to be for reading. I don't know how much more I could really want to spend on I don't know. When we said we want to put in more stuff, I was thinking we'd put another extra small tree somewhere or putting the tractor out front. I like that idea. Obviously, I like the tractor idea but I was not envisioning $300,000 for any of that.
That was crazy last time. It was $300,000 for what we saw which I almost fell off my chair seeing that. I didn't expect it to be the exact same price for something I think is very similar in what that is.
So that's my question you just think it's the same?
It was $300,000 and looked at that and it was just the most cool looking thing that my kids would be like I want to go there right now then we could be in the discussion of all right it's art and public spaces funding we're taking away from somewhere else but making this extra cool. I understand that I don't think we're getting anything extra cool out of it though and we're spending twice as much money. That's my problem so.
And I think that's probably where the reason there's five of us, I think that we do get a lot more wow that's neat by having this there. My question is does it take away from the theme that we were building towards? And then trying to put a number on it? Is $300,000 more WOW? I don't know. I don't know the answer to that.
I might take
away from the WOW
some of it actually but yeah, I personally think the theme is too out there. We look at like agrarian themes. It's not really an agrarian theme, it's more just like Moorpark theme. Mammoths aren't really agrarian themed animals but it's part of the Moorpark history so I like that part of it. I think when there's like Little Mermaid and a pirate ship, it goes a little bit further than, you know, Moorpark stuff. Even though those things are inside books. I get that. So if our theme was book characters and different weird lands and things that we find in reading, and that was how we would theme this whole library, totally get it. That could be a good idea whether people like it or not. It's a good point but I think we're kind of just combining stuff together
I guess the way I was looking at it, this isn't the whole library. This is for children. So it's very specific for children and it's only one spot that's this different. And it's the one spot that it can be different and should be different, at least in my opinion. And the rest of the library is as it is. So I don't necessarily think that it's not like you're walking in and oh, you see this weird wall with princesses on it. You have to go into the space to get there so I don't think it's necessarily distracting from the overall feel or look of the library as a whole.
Well we're not putting art in any other parts of the library, really.
Right. No, we are. We
are
throughout.
Absolutely. Not at this time but I envision that art features and collections are going to be a part of the library. I hope that's within the realm of possibility. Looking around desperately for support.
If I may maybe maybe I could I could help this conversation, maybe not but So the budget we gave you and Chris showed some of those budget numbers. I mean those are those are like pretty Pretty wide budget numbers between 35 and $50,000 for for one of these cubbies And again, these were essentially studio-wide looked at these without knowing real dimensions. Without knowing the amount of sculptural elements in these. Without really knowing much about it other than an image we had shown them. Took it to their production team and say what could they budget to get this done?
And they said $35,000 to $50,000, right? Tractor between 50 and 65 thousand. There wasn't a whole lot of thought process into exactly what those costs are. So when I mentioned earlier, a lot of times we do art projects, we give the artists a budget. We could give the artists Studio Y the low end of that budget and say, we're not spending more than $35,000 on these cubby walls or we're not spending more than $50,000 on this tractor And work with Studio Y, with the ad hoc committee to design these based on the budget that we give them. We give them that budget and they have to come within that budget.
You mentioned there was some concern about Letting studio I get involved and are they going to be able to give us what we want They would prefer that. We show them exactly what we want and they can replicate Exactly what we give them And so having the ad hoc work with Studio Y through that process, we will get what we want And remember those have to come back to the City Council as well. So Just thought I'd add those so maybe that helps
Mr. Lorentowski since we're talking about X's and O's for a moment, right now we're talking about this hypothetically in terms of real timeline whether we're working with Studio Y or some other it sounded like if we work with someone else then that's a delay If our intention is for whatever design and architectural elements are added or engineering elements are added, what is our drop dead timeline to give that to whoever's doing that so we know how much time we have to make a decision?
Yeah, we pretty much need to kind of have some design direction tonight. So especially with the cubby walls if the council wants to move forward with cubby walls, we need to know that so that there's a lot of different consultants and trades and contractors that have to get involved in order to get that done. Okay thank you.
Seems expensive. Let me clarify that though for a minute because it doesn't mean Each cubby needs to be figured out or exactly what's going to go in each cubby, or whether we go with studio Y versus a much cheaper framing out version. What is needed? My understanding please correct me if I'm wrong is are we going to make changes to the architectural that are going to require the plans and that type of specification?
is needed because in October they're going to actually start building and they need plans, if that makes sense. So it's not necessarily like Studio Y has to have the direction of we're gonna put a mermaid or we're not, right? But if we're gonna change that wall to not be exactly as it is today, that's what needs the direction. Is that correct?
Kind
of. Well, the first one is provide direction on all these ideas which I think we've provided a lot of direction. It's not really a coherent single direction but there is a direction. Number two is direct staff to enter into an agreement with Studio Y Creations for design development drawings for the cubby wall and tractor. That one I don't like that idea. What I've seen before, I don't think we're gonna get something that is cheaper.
The second meeting when we had them look at what we're gonna do, I'm assuming we didn't put a budget on that because they came back with the same price as the original one or doubling it and if that's what that cost us to get that little work this seems more ornate than that first one
Mr. Mayor, on that point I could just ask a clarifying. Go ahead. Because I feel like we have to at some point wind the conversation down so I just wanted to from the ad hoc committee on those two points working with Studio Y being one of them were you comfortable if with again with some direction from the council were the two of you comfortable continuing to move forward with Studio Y being a part of it because that is also to me an inflection point about meeting our timeline? And so I feel like we need to make it, and I recognize exactly what you're saying in terms of the elements that relate to construction. We don't need to decide on exactly what goes in those cubbies but it sounds like tonight we do need to make a decision about the cubbies themselves and some elements.
So were the two of you comfortable moving forward with Studio Y?
3:08 – 3:2043 turns
I was I wanted to kind of hone down maybe a little bit the pricing as well just so that. More for hopefully staying to the lower end of that budget and maybe what we need to do to maybe modify our own drawings for that. But I was comfortable with it, to give it that 3D feel that we already have in the trees and to make it just overall cohesive with the ability of kids to climb and play and destroy if not destroyed but be kids.
I think what gave me comfort is the fact that they said You know, you talk to artists sometimes and they're like well no, I'm the artist. You can't decide when they said no we would love very specific direction that actually helps us. I feel like that provides some comfort in getting what we're trying to achieve. I don't know if you have it, Mr. Lernachowski, but there was another version of a tractor image. Council
Member Behr, before we transition, I just wanted to try and get some parts so if it's helpful, I can say I will go along with the recommendation for Studio Y. I get the fact that you have some reservations about that, but I also know maybe Picking up where mr. Laurentowski left off on the amount because that's something like if people wanted to weigh in For the for the ad hoc about okay, so 300,000 is too much regardless of who does the work Like is there isn't them? Is there an amount that we can give the Ad Hoc Committee and to work with I know Mr. Mayor you were wrestling with that but
$46,500 figure that out.
So you're okay. So $50,000 basically no 46,005 No That's
a tough one because
I don't think this is a six hundred thousand dollar proposal in front of us I think with change orders and all the rest we're probably looking at eight hundred thousand dollars. I mean I will be putting you in a really tough spot to ask you this question. If you'd rather I not, I'll just move
on. It would be really hard for me at this point to kind of estimate that but the lower end of that budget and again it was just a budget was it would be like $225,000 for the cubby wall or I'm sorry, $175,000 for the cubby which is a lower end of that. $50,000 with a tractor which was a lower end of that $11,000 in change for design drawings. So the budget to keep essentially what we have now just working within that budget would be like $236,000 which is essentially a hundred thousand dollars less than the higher end of that budget so So
that I'm clear with what you're saying, it will be an additional $250,000 to make changes.
For the cubbies and for the tractor. Now as far as architectural changes and construction changes, I just really couldn't put a number on it at that point without spending some time But yeah, so I mean you like I said they gave us a range in their budget for these elements. Chris has got them up on the screen right now. We could start with the lower end of that range.
We can work with the ad hoc. We can work with Studio Y to refine these designs so that we work within the lower range of that budget
One question before we begin. This is going to kind of formulate this a little bit more, and I want to try to tie this up as much as we can. Is everyone on the same page of needing to have this done before the library's opened? What is the importance of that? I want to know that because that kind of helps us get somewhere here.
I didn't get a chance to follow Mr. Means but my understanding was yes, that was a priority for you
I could be moved off of it if it was super compelling but yeah, that is my preference. We have a grand opening that is truly grand at least with the things we've figured out
here. Dr. Castro where are you on that
one? I feel equally strongly that unless there's some compelling reason to not be ready like if there were something extraordinary that we were contemplating and There was a justification for the delay. I don't hear that tonight, but if there were something like that, I would say absolutely let's delay that to do this other compelling thing given that I don't hear that conversation tonight. I feel like there's no reason for us not to keep up with the opening so that way it is an actual grand opening.
Okay, Renee what do you
think? Yeah, I think we should keep with the grand opening.
Chris, what do you think?
I agree. Okay so I disagree with all you guys on that one and that's totally fine. That's great yeah it doesn't matter to me. I think installing a brand new piece of art a year later is kind of gives another grand opening effect as it is. I mean we're constantly putting brand new things in our business all the time Doesn't bother me that much if that gets in the way of Spending way too much money, then I'd be okay with not having it day one.
So All right. I've heard that opinion. That's good to know I
think you were asking about dollar amounts and budgets earlier rate which might be a worthwhile to go to next sir
So what is your point on, I want to hear everyone else. What we expect to spend in addition on this? We've already spent $300,000 on a project we budgeted $350,000 for so what level of spending do you think we should stop chasing this unicorn at?
Which is an incredibly difficult question to answer when no one can tell us what the costs are going to be I Told you it would be a contradiction Wait till the next item. I'll completely contradict everything about that to say here. I am I'm prepared to say $300,000 more on this art project than Is is something I will support knowing that it is drawing from future art projects that are likely to be.
Prevailing wage and artists need, I don't know that what we're spending here is going to get terrifically cheaper in other art projects so I think what I'm talking about is not are Could we do this cheaper, more efficiently? I think we probably can and I hope we'll look for those ways. But will this piece of art be more impactful to our community than the next piece of art? And I think this will.
When you say piece of art, do you mean just the cubby walls or all the things we're talking about in this
whole part
two plan of
it? There's
a lot of stuff. I kind of assumed we were just going to have one more thing to this thing. We're now having an artist interior decorate this whole area so it's hard to piecemeal this whole thing because it's kind of like a proposal here. So you're okay with spending $300,000 more to make this really cool looking?
Yep. I am willing to trade $300,000 of art expense today for $300,000 of art expense tomorrow in order for our children's area to be the best it can be. Okay
so you think that is worth three hundred thousand dollars right there? You don't even think that, I know that. What do you think? With the dollar amount that you're willing to put... If I
answer are you going to believe what I say because I don't know if you're believing Mr. Means.
I can see his ears grinding in there and himself contradicting himself right
there. I don t know if it's an actual irony but I was fine not spending the money two designs ago but what I've heard us talk about since then is We want this to be something that not only are we proud of, but the community is proud of. And if that means that we have the money in the arts budget and if we can do something that we're proud of again I love the concept of building out like actual contemplative spaces for kids and families.
The thing that I struggle with is like each of those cubbies are, I imagine we're probably close to being right on their 35 to $50,000 a piece. And if that's how much it is and that's how much we can squeeze based on the design in that wall, I'm fine spending the money just as much as I was fine from the very beginning not. No, I mean sincerely because what my original comments were about When people come into the library, they're coming into a library. There's an expectation that the library is not the movies.
People that not just go into a library, but they've gone in and I love that term portal right? That we've created a portal to other experiences that people wouldn't have even considered Had we not done it and that that feels worth it So yeah, I'm in support. Okay
Renee what is the dollar sign for you
or I would say three hundred and fifty thousand total and for me that's including changing the drawings Any potential additional Construction costs now you have to remember too that this is not a structural wall. This is a bump out of build-out so it's In theory, it shouldn't be that much more to just draw out a build-out wall because they're not changing plumbing or you know our major posts or anything like that, so In my in my head. I'm thinking 350 as a total budget
for everything including we've already spent
No, no just this. Oh,
so 600 and
well We're only talking about this part because we already agreed to the other parts So that's why okay, I'm saying for for this new part this part that we're talking about tonight. I would say 350 Okay,
Chris
Yeah Some of what's been said as far as this being a showpiece. It might sound silly, but the Camarillo Library is on TripAdvisor. Right? Like it's a destination. A lot of things are on TripAdvisor.
A lot of things are on TripAdvisor. Also who uses TripAdvisor? Go ahead. Continue. Sorry, sorry.
It was recommended on the MapQuest to me that I check it out.
But the idea of it being something that does wow and what I saw in the Thank you all for being here.
3:20 – 3:2510 turns
Is your microphone on? Sorry about that. I think we have now moved to
something That does wow. Now, can we cut certain elements and taper things down and do some things different? And I hear an overwhelming maybe studio-wise isn't quite the right place at least from two of you. And I think as an ad hoc, we can certainly look at that. I'm okay spending the extra $300,000 or 350 with all in as that is because I do think this versus a statue in a park.
I'm not for the
idea of tapering down. not finding the most expensive way to create an element, especially if there's hey we're gonna make foam cover it in plastic hand paint it and it's gonna look like the wood that's literally right behind it. Like cool we'll just have the wood exposed so I don't... In that number I don't want to taper down. I don' wanna find us moving backwards. I absolutely would love for either the ad hoc or city staff to diligently look at ways that we can find efficiency
Yeah, if I may. I don't know if you have this element handy but there was another version of the tractor that was shown again in AI rendering But simply different and less climbable, potentially. So just to kind of show a different element. I know this particular one when it was described, you know, potentially had seating behind it and different things but is it possible to show that?
I'm sorry Council Member, I wasn't looking at my phone and I just
see it right now. That's all right. I don't think we could get it on very quickly
I have a thought that should only be taken about 10% seriously. We could buy a tractor, put it outside, create a fall zone and then if people wanna climb on it great. Move to approve. Creates the opportunity for kids and families to justify their own risk but... Now we're talking. And there you go okay so that's... Real tractor. I'm sure you appreciate that idea.
So 90%. And I would want that completely unchanged every mechanical part on that should still be there because it's going to be explored. If
you want a wow factor then prepare, be prepared to do things like that not spend money on foam. It's not gonna wow anybody yeah look so we got to start getting towards an angle here I feel like i'm gonna be on the outside of some of this stuff what I would like to do is I'd like to work around with what is planned and not get into consultants And ECOs and design changes for something we've already spent 37 million dollars on.
I'd like to build a tractor, I like that idea. I like to just take a tractor and put it in there but if we have to build one fine but build something the kids can climb on. I mean let the kids sit in the tractor. It's a library you want me wowed by it? Sit on a tractor. So I like the one in that picture, it looked pretty good. So if we had to get into Studio Y which I don't think I would like to do, I'd like to open this up to other places because I don' think we're getting a good value on this but if we had to do this and everyone was on the same page of getting this done for the time that we're opening it then I would say take that $50,000 and try to budget out a tractor that is worth climbing on that is nice And I would install the butterflies and I'd work with muraling on the wall.
That'll be my idea of that if someone else has a different way of doing it, I think it's time to start getting towards emotion here.
I just want to clarify what you were saying and I know you said 10% serious. If we take it 90% serious where we actually get an antique tractor create a fall zone around it, it seems like that would be I think that's a great idea for a park outside of the library. Again, the idea here was a
tractor that is a bookshelf and maybe there is an element where you could climb in and sit in the seat for your Instagram moment but
3:25 – 3:3116 turns
It was even talked about as a seating area on the other side of it. This isn't just a tractor, this is a piece of furniture that has a utilitarian use and it's not just taking up space which is limited. It's showcasing books.
Sure, the tractor direction was getting at is I like the tractor direction we're not going to design what that thing looks like or what's made of materials right here but all I was saying is I was just trying to put a hybrid together of things I would be okay with bending towards and And trying to move this ahead to get it within the timelines. And with that would be, let's not do any more design changes and crazy things like that with consultants and God knows what. I would go for the tractor, install the butterflies as we talked about, and for the amount of money I'd be willing to spend more. When we first had that idea, that discussion of how much money we'd be willing It wasn't how much money to spend, it was to go back and see what more could be done.
I did not think I'd be seeing anything more than $100,000 of additional things. In addition to what we have already budgeted as the full amount, which is $350,000. So I can't in good faith get involved in a scope carry project of 95%. Even if it's art and public spaces funding, I can spend that money somewhere else easily so I would be off of that if that's where we're gonna go but if that's where y'all wanna go then I think it's time to start wrapping
Does anyone else agree with not changing the architecture? Because I think what you get by doing that, and there is certainly costs involved. But by having those five separate spaces versus the two larger and the three smaller is the collaborative space and the option to add more tables and the flexibility for some of that Exists in that so
kids aren't like collaborate. They're climbing inside cubby holes
Well, no they're there.
That's the more
so So actually what what what the librarians and what the consultants and everyone has shared is it's absolutely collaboration because you're not sending your six-year-old In there necessarily on their own hopefully because then they're climbing walls and things as you described I you know, this is a library and you're sitting with them and, you know, you're reading to them. You're a part of this process or your maybe you and your two kids, three kids, you and your friend and their kids, right? And you've creating these spaces that they're working together versus, you know climbing in a cubby or the early childhood concept of having these little cubbies on the ground That a kid can get in there. You can't read to a kid in there, so yes, a kid can get in there and probably look through a picture book but that doesn't provide any more flexibility.
They can also climb on the bench seat and look through a picture book and now you can sit with them and be engaged.
It seems like we should have thought about this a long time ago.
Yeah, it's like it
was designed
badly. It was designed to just was... To me, it just was poorly designed for that one space. If you want to do
that let's put the coffee shop back in while we're at it. I mean, we got to go with something.
I don't disagree. So I
don'y like the scope creep. Look so you guys know what I think obviously. I feel like I know where you guys want to go. So if you want to put a motion together someone has emotion to put together if you wanna keep chatting about it I can do this for another three hours if you have to, but I think we need to get narrowed down to something.
Council, it would be helpful to get into specific details of which elements to also approve. I mean one thing that could be proposed is $350,000 maximum amount. Kind of heard that from Council Member Delgado. Okay moving forward with the trailer, excuse me not a trailer, tractor. Moving forward with the butterflies and also the cloud lights that's proposed. Moving forward with the digital infrastructure improvements, and then what I've been hearing is it seems like a majority of you are supportive of the five cubby wall design.
So I'll make a motion to move forward with referring this back to the ad hoc, but to include a tractor element to to move forward with the five cubbies concept. But but with a focus on on making them more park thematic while still You know having those portal elements to them. And putting a max budget of 300,000.
3:31 – 3:4430 turns
The I don't know of any dragons currently in Moorpark or oceans. Does that mean district 3? That's why I
Meaning behind that to make sure that there's Easter egg elements within the fantasy Scenes,
so these wouldn't be scenes from Moorpark. These would continue to be fantasy scenes and a CC with Easter eggs in them of Moorparks Sorry, thank you for the clarification Can I also ask you to consider adding? In your proposal, if it's for staff's recommendation that we look to local artists for murals and any concepts outside of ones that have to be through potentially Studio Y?
Yeah. So looking to include local artists as much as possible within the confines of getting this done on time.
Do you have Studio Y in here as enter into an agreement
I'm not entering into agreement in my motion.
OK, so who's going to make this thing in the timeline? Because that was a big concern that it had to be studio wide to get this done the right timeline. I didn't care. I don't care if it's done a year later and
so. So there's there's there's currently There's currently budget approved that would allow for Studio Y to do the design if we move forward with that. Is that correct?
The tractor's wheel, I think only.
Yes, there is money left in the budget for Studio Y to do the development drawings for the cubby wall and the tractor.
So if we move forward with making some modifications, do we have to approve that element right now? With Studio Y?
Yeah. There's a lot going on. If we wanted to get these cubbies done As designed, we would have to go with Studio Y. And so if the desire was to have these cubbies done a year from now We need to kind of move forward right now. Because that way we could get in front of the architects, have the cubby wall redesigned and kick off studio-wise so they could start this because their deadline was to have this in production in October.
Correct,
so if we approved moving towards the architectural changes for the cubbies but we were able to as an ad hoc come back with you know knowing that that's now the five cubby design but come back potentially with alternates before we move forward with Studio Y to specifically do that. Like I said they needed October and that still gives us opportunity to come back to Council one more time for the Studio Y element, but we're doing the architectural changes now. Is that
correct? We could probably do that, yes. So if we kick off Studio Y now, we would have an opportunity to come back to City Council and get their final approval on the final designs. And at that time, we could even have a detailed budget of what those would actually cost
I like where it's headed, but I think we're setting ourselves up to do another one of these moments that we're having tonight which is huge budget decision, major implications for the city. It comes back with a detailed budget and if we don't decide right then then it can't possibly happen and we keep finding ourselves backed into this decision-making corner I can't believe the words coming out of my mouth. Uh, I think we'd move forward with studio Y and ask the ad hoc to be as diligent and detailed as possible in giving very specific direction. I don't think their pricing is going to be great but hopefully they will watch part or all of this and see just how concerned we are with cost overruns.
But if we're gonna do this, I And the city staff need to be providing direction. I'm not the guy to have on your art selection committee, so if staying out of it and letting it run in order to get what we're trying to achieve is the best outcome we can have, I will defer to the ad hoc.
So with this timeline thing, I hate getting caught in this we have to make a bad decision because we don't have any time to make a good decision. We're talking about this grand opening of the library as in after the grand opening no one knows about our library anymore and then that's it? The library is a community asset. It'll always be important. We're going to have different things in there all the time, different collections possibly Does it really matter if the day that the acorn comes up, take a picture that has the tractor sitting there or not? When a year later there could be possibly something much better, much cheaper and more wowing than we could do if we're going to actually go back and do it in a coherent way. And to me I don't care if it's gonna be too late because I want it to be the best as possible
Mr. Mayor, we're in agreement and you asked if there was still at the time a desire to be ready and I think there was a consensus that we did want it to be ready at the same time. Again, in the interest of moving the concept forward, Councilmember DiGioia seemed like you were comfortable using Studio Y I'll say, I'm comfortable with similar stipulation that if I don't want it to be the barrier to the entire project going forward.
But that's three of us in Councilmember Barrett obviously you're on the committee on this at the ad hoc so between the two The desire is for us to not come to another inflection point where because there was indecision, we now end up in a, we must make a decision in that moment. I just likewise, I don't wanna be in that moment again because this you have the sounds like the authority to not put us in that place.
So the final version will be a surprise to everybody?
There you
go. Well okay so I haven't added that, I have not added that to my motion at this point. And I guess the reasoning is that first of all, I value all of your opinions greatly on this and I get that it does put us in a tighter spot if it comes back for another point of decision but if as an Ad Hoc we are able to find Alternate things that maybe the staff hasn't considered right now in order to achieve something without using studio. Why that? Maybe does realize cost savings because if we set a $300 300 thousand dollar budget That doesn't mean you have to spend $300,000. It means you have to spend less than $300,000, right? So hopefully a lot less than $300 potentially, right? So it gives opportunity so like I wouldn't go back to StudioY and say you have $300 thousand or that idea of being able So by allowing us to come back one more time with the decision for moving forward with Studio Y versus potentially something else.
If there is space to do that, yes it will put us under the gun to make a decision and maybe the decision it's just it is Studio Y at that point and that's take it or leave it but I think by not approving it tonight it gives us a little more flexibility In that. Does anyone have any thoughts on that before? Yeah, my motion why if it
comes back to us Sorry, I appreciate it It's it's incredibly courteous and it's one of the things that's great about this council Is that we we do care what one another has to say even if the mayor says it it's really neat But if it's gonna come back to us Appreciate you mayor If it's gonna come back to us And we have to make a decision at that moment Either approve this or it doesn't get done.
At that point, I don't even see it as a choice. I'd much rather delegate the authority to the ad hoc to say don't taper down, find efficiencies, consider Studio Y. I'm fine with that giving you the authority to go with Studio Y if you want to but I trust in the two of you to make sure you're looking for angles. You're gonna find efficiencies that I would never have thought of without having to bring it back to council and we're dark next meeting which means A month before some of these decisions can be made. If we're gonna put this on city staff, and we're gonna put this on the contractors to be putting this work in place, let's empower you, the ad hoc, to move this thing forward to success.
Staff, is that possible to not have the studio-wide decision come from the full council but just from the ad
hoc? It would have to come back to approve the contract. So we would be bringing it back anyways. But at that point I think you know what we were trying to get out of this meeting is really design direction right? We know we still have to work on these designs so I think I think the direction we're looking for from city council is if we're moving forward with these cubbies, it's a space theme. It's an ocean scene and it's those five concepts that we saw now there's a lot of refinement that might happen. There's gonna be a lot of surprises that can be put in those but those are things that the ad hoc could figure out along the way. I don't think that changes the concept at all And so we'll work with the ad hoc or with Studio Y to refine those concepts, those themes.
But ultimately those final designs would have to come back to the city council to approve a contract.
And Councilmember Barrett, one of the reasons I asked the comfort level using StudioWide was because of this. If you're uncomfortable doing that there is consensus for us to move forward. You can retract your motion someone else can make the motion. You still as an ad hoc end up in the same place.
Well I'm comfortable if we're not agreeing I don't know that at this moment we should agree to $16,000 towards Studio Y. I
acknowledge that what I was saying is that there were three members who are in agreement so if you felt more comfortable you could retract your original motion or we could vote on it and then move forward with a new motion where the motion does include Studio Y because there is a concern about Reaching a point of similar to this, where we end up being in a forced choice scenario. Where you're saying we have a choice but really the entire council isn't spending all that time deliberating on that new entity. We will be completely unfamiliar with whatever that new entity is and then be forced likely to make a decision on that moment versus Now we at least have an awareness and as Council Member Means said, like a trust in the ad hoc to put the council in the most advantageous position.
So again if procedurally we can go about it that way but it's truly your preference.
So if we move forward with the motion on the table that doesn't specifically authorize 16,000 towards Studio Y. My understanding Mr. Lerentowski is that either way we have to come back with a contract for Studio Y and that's gonna come back, is that correct?
That would come back though with the final designs. So if you wanted to move forward with those cubbies, you would have to authorize an agreement with Studio Y for $16,000 so that they could do the design work.
Okay and 16,000 was a range right?
Yeah everything that we put in there it's based on the 5% cost of the artwork. That's how they charge their design work So, you know it again. It's it's that was a higher of the range so based on a higher budget
3:44 – 3:5545 turns
Okay, so if we have to do that at this point then I would I would authorize I Would add to my motion. Can
I can I clarify the motion? I please so your it was the $300,000 That you mentioned as the max budget So does that include, that's just the Studio Y components? Or you're talking about the murals, the changes. The
additional budget for the original $350,000 to add an additional $300,000.
Because this budget we put in here, this $331,000, that was only for Studio Y. It did not include fabric murals, butterflies, any change orders from the architect, any construction modifications or any installation. So your budget that you're putting on the table is $300,000 to include everything including the fabrication of these cubby walls and the tractor?
If you take the lower budget that was proposed for Studio Y and you add in the estimated $20,000 that you had mentioned for potential architects. I know that was a made-up number so... I don't believe that considered the butterflies right?
Or the murals or anything like
that. But the murals, I believe were already part of the original 350,000 at least part of them was considered in there. Part of them was
correct.
Right? So that's where your 46,000 comes in right? That you referenced earlier. So I can change my motion to be 350,000 all in. But that would be an additional-
What I would suggest is that just because the other thing and I'm just talking out loud because I've got to make sure we're meeting this budget. I would suggest because we're really just talking about studio Y as far as the critical things. The murals we haven't even shown. The butterflies we still gotta talk to interior designers I would suggest if you wanted to make a motion that we make a motion with the lower range of studio-wise budget, which was essentially $236,000. Which is lower than the 300 just because I'm not I don't think the construction costs are going to be huge, but there are going to be some construction costs.
So I'm just a little hesitant wanting to put out project total without really understanding what we're kind of getting into. But for Studio Y and these elements, going with the lower range of Studio Y's budget, I think certainly makes sense because then we can work with them and hold that and hopefully bring it lower. That's my 10 cents.
So what do you wanna do? You got a motion. I'm
gonna withdraw my motion and let someone else do this.
Okay, I want to put a motion together and it's gonna get rejected but just for fun. I want to make a motion to not enter in an agreement with Studio Y... No hold on wait a minute sorry Okay, no. That's all right. I'll make a motion to work around the plans of the library as it is, as they're designed without going into wall changes and anything else get into an agreement with Studio Y to build the tractor since they've already built the trees and in the spirit of what I thought was enhancing what they already did that would be that and install the butterflies and the clouds and the rest of the murals That would be my motion.
To be clear, that does not involve the cubbies.
Does not involve the cubbies. Work around it. With a motion and no second. Cool. Awesome. Okay now someone else make a motion that I'll vote against.
I will copy Councilmember Barrett's motion but add a $300,000 budget for Studio Y and for these elements only. And to move forward so that we're in time. And not as the entire project totals of this second portion, since we are not aware of what that entire project total could possibly be. So this is just for the cubbies and the elements that are in the drawings, the butterflies and the... Oh no, not those right?
Not those, so just the Studio Y portions.
And I will offer a second unless another staff member has some other interjection to that motion.
Can we actually just clarify because I think the prior motion was, we just want to make sure it's clear what's being voted on so from my notes and I want to make sure this is what was previously stated is that the direction was to move forward with giving directions for this to go back to the ad hoc committee, to look into a design that includes the installation of butterflies, cloud lights.
murals with the use of a local artist and digital infrastructure, as well as a tractor. As part of the design moving forward with the five cubby concept with a max budget of $350,000 for the Studio Y side of the designs. We're gonna change
that to $300,000. $300,000 for the
Studio Y side of the design Part of that $300,000 budget would Entry to an agreement for the design development drawings for the cubby wall and tractor in a not-to-exceed amount of $16,000 and would also Allow for the direction of staff to obtain a proposal from LPA For the architectural engineering services associated with everything else that the council is Wanting to move forward. That is correct
I have a clarifying question before we vote if that's possible. If we're moving forward at 300,000 studio wise specific budget does that would that mean we can still give them direction to spend less as an ad hoc or is that do they take that budget and they build to that budget because
No, absolutely. I mean the direction is $300,000 max budget. Again we haven't really sat down with them and had a detailed discussion about what we're doing. You know again I think we push them to the lower end of this budget and when we talk to them let them know this is where we expect the artwork to come in at And if there's, you know, if we have a $300,000 budget on the table that might give them a little wiggle room but I think we could. I mean, I'm sure we can get a very good product for the lower end of that budget so.
Mr. Lewandowski, if you were to give me your range which you don't want to give me, I don't blame you. So I'll let you have 95% certainty instead of 99 for what the other elements are likely to come in at. If we approve not to exceed $300,000 for Studio Y could the architecture, the murals all those other elements end up being another 300,000?
I really don't think so. I mean, the one thing that I'm just hesitant to want to put a number on is just what the change order might be from our architect. Architects aren't cheap and any construction modifications that might occur where we're dealing with a contractor that we don't really have They're basically in the middle of construction, so I just don't know what those costs are like. You know murals? We've looked at those in the past. You can get a mural for $10,000. You could get a mural for $40,000 and we have some cost savings from the contract with Studio Y because remember we contracted with them to do the mural behind the tree. We decided we're not going to do that. We're gonna get a local artist to do some of that artwork Now I know you wanted a dollar amount.
I'm trying to figure out if we give $300,000 to Studio Y What does the rest of that budget look like? If you say it's a mural, it could be as low as 10 grand. It could be as much as 100 grand. That's
different than- Yeah I mean if we're talking murals and let's just hit the middle there's three murals we're thinking about putting up. That could be $60,000. We already have the cloud lights in the architectural design so there won't be really any additional costs The butterflies are a little uncertain, but you know I mean you could get them pretty cheap You could probably spend. You know $1,000 each I Don't know you know and I'm not a butterfly asked
for a range please keep going bucks
not a butterfly expert I don't know what these things actually really cost. I mean I know we've found them on Etsy for 100 bucks right so
So as you're adding that all in there, could it be $100,000?
I think $100,000 is probably what it would cost. To put
butterflies on the ceiling, do you think that would cost to do that?
We're talking murals.
It takes that $300,000 number that's currently on the table and it projects with not certainty without certainty that it would actually be 400,000.
Right this is all because we want to rush a timeline too.
We can do 250,000 if that makes everybody feel better. Now
that I know it's 100,000. You
should
probably put a motion out there before we
start
talking past the sale because its getting worse
and worse. Motion and a second is there. It was at 300,000
for just the Studio Y components, so that I
understand. Up to but really trying not to spend that much.
Not to exceed $300,000
for the Studio Y. Not to get into their higher end. This would be the middle portion but to strive for the lower number.
3:55 – 3:5719 turns
Was there a second on this one? Yes. So we have a
motion. Yes, we have a motion and a second. I thought Dr. Castro said...
Yeah, I was just waiting because every time I tried to staff had something else to add so I didn't want to jump in. Are
you sure about your
motion?
There's still a motion pending there is not a second yet.
Okay, so I still wanted to go back to my original offer it's a second that motion I just wanted to make sure that any clarifications were completed.
Okay, so we have emotion and we have the second. Is there a roll call vote on this one? No, there is no roll call vote. So all in favor?
Aye. What? Aye!
Any opposed? Aye
I'm sorry we do need an affirmative. Let's do a roll call. I think it
might
be better to do a roll
Roll-call vote Passed 3–1
Show transcript
Motion carries 4-1. That's
my first 4- 1.
Let's
see if
we
can get that for 2 tonight. Go to the next one here. Tom is going to have buyer's remorse later on tonight, you know that? Next is presentation action discussion item 10 D to consider a resolution preliminary approving engineers report for the proposed formation of the 2026 Parks and Recreation Maintenance and Improvement District. Resolution adopting proposition 218 assessment ballot proceedings.
Thank you, Mayor and members of the City Council. So this one should be a lot easier.
3:57 – 4:139 turns
Before we start can I just add does anybody need it's 1030. Does anybody need a two-minute break a five minute break? I'm fine I just want to make sure that nobody else does and I know you guys are waiting So I don't want to add more time, but I do want to give people Okay, good. Okay. Just wanna make sure staff was good too Thank you
All right. So we've been talking about this for quite a while, so I will try and be brief. The current Parks Maintenance Assessment District was established on June 16th, 1999. At the time the city had 14 parks and the engineer's report made a determination that 25% of the benefits should be deemed special. And 75% shall be deemed general as required under Proposition 218. This means that the city can only assess properties for the portion of the budget related to special benefits and general benefits must be funded with non-assessment revenue, which is typically for Moorpark the General Fund. In 1999, the initial assessment rate was $39, which covered 52% of the operating budget.
During the special City Council meeting in August of last year, staff presented an agenda report regarding the status of the city's general fund and review of the 10-year long range or long term financial plan. The long term financial plan projected that the city's general fund will face a structural deficit beginning around fiscal year 2930 So to avoid a projected structural deficit, it was discussed that the city will require additional revenue opportunities to maintain city services.
Last week during this special City Council meeting on the city's general fund, the finance director presented this graph which shows that the expected deficit is still tracking to occur around fiscal year 2930 and how a benefit assessment would essentially delay the structural deficit an additional two years Since 1999, park maintenance expenses has outpaced assessment revenue. Over the last several years, the general fund has subsidized park maintenance operations between 51 and 67%.
However this does not include the additional $400,000 in annual funding needed to cover the city's equipment replacement fund. Even though the city has made a considerable effort to reduce maintenance costs, the general fund is still contributing a significant portion of the park maintenance cost. So during the City Council meeting in February, the City Council considered a feasibility analysis for both a property owner benefit assessment and a parcel tax voter measure.
It was discussed that the approach to a benefit assessment would be to form a new overlay assessment, which would be additional to the existing 1999 park assessment. The analysis considered all residential and non-residential land uses, the proximity of residential homes to parks as well as a general benefit finding Different than the 1999 study that established a 25% general benefit, the current analysis estimated the general bit finding at about 27%. The difference is due to a variety of factors that have changed since 1999 such as regional roadways, public use impacts, access by parcels outside of city limits as well as non-residential use of park facilities.
The analysis based the proposed assessment rates on the current fiscal year 26-27 operating budget and after subtracting the city's general benefit contribution and revenue generated from the existing park assessment, it was estimated that the single family residential rate for the majority of homes in Moorpark was approximately $97.42. Similar to a benefit assessment, a parcel tax would also be an addition to the existing 1999 park assessment.
The analysis again considered both residential and non-residential properties and considered two methodologies of flat tax which would be applied equally to all parcels and attacks based on building square footage should be noted that different than a benefit assessment, partial tax allows for more flexibility such as allowing for senior exemptions and is not subject to the same constitutional requirements related to special and general benefits.
The analysis was also based on the current fiscal year 26-27 operating budget, and after subtracting the current park assessment it was estimated that the flat tax rate with a senior exemption was approximately $187.50. So in February of this year, the City Council directed staff to move forward with a public opinion survey to determine the level of support for both a benefit assessment and a parcel tax. The survey included 400 interviews with overall margin of error of about 4.9%.
And tested support for both options through a split sample. The split sample consisted of two different survey pools of 200 interviews each, in which one tested support for a parcel tax and at the special tax rate of $188, and the other tested support for a parcel tax at the benefit assessment rate of $98. The initial survey results identified that initial support for either measure was essentially equal, that is 54% when surveyed at the $188 rate and 55% support for the $98 rate.
Support for both measures increased marginally when additional information was shared with the voters such as rising maintenance costs And decreased when the voters were provided with a general opposition message. While both amounts received support above a simple majority, neither approached the two-thirds voter approval required for a special tax major. Additionally, the survey results suggested that residents value city parks and recreation systems and believe Moorpark is generally going in the right direction. But there's not yet broad awareness of the funding needs necessary to maintain the current levels of service as only 60% surveyed believe there is a need for additional funding.
So this brings us to the engineer's report that is being presented tonight. The report is based on an estimated fiscal year 27-28 budget for park operations, it includes a 3% annual CPI increase as well as several deferred maintenance items such as repaving The well access road at Arroyo Vista and restriping the sports courts at Miller Park. Additionally, the engineer's report includes a maximum fiscal year 27-28 estimate of costs including the maintenance of potential future improvements such as approximately 8.3 miles of trails, a future park adjacent to the new library and the expansion of athletic fields and parking on the 14 acre property owned by Southern California Edison adjacent to Arroyo Vista The engineer's report also includes costs related to future replacement of capital assets, such as future playground equipment.
The proposed maximum assessment including future improvements for fiscal year 27-28 is estimated at $1,543,221 which equates to an assessment of $128.48 for single family home in Zone A And $77.09 for a single family home in Zone B. Similar to the feasibility analysis that was presented to the City Council earlier this year, The engineer's report includes a proximity analysis and determined that properties in the city that are further than half a mile from a park receive less benefit than properties that are closer.
The analysis determined that zone B properties received 60% of the benefit received by zone A properties, and therefore are assessed 60% of the zone A rate. Additionally, Prop 218 requires Any local agency proposing to increase or impose a benefit assessment to separate the percentage of general benefits from the percentage of special benefits received by a parcel, and it has been determined that 27.16% of the benefits conferred by park and recreational facilities are general in nature and need to be funded by sources other than assessment revenue which again is typically the general fund.
So this next slide simply shows the maximum assessment rate for each land use category, as well as a current parks assessment and a total combined assessment rate. So should the City Council consider a Prop 218 mail ballot proceeding, staff will immediately start to implement an educational outreach plan This proposed timeline allows for approximately seven weeks of dedicated outreach, but staff will continue to provide information to the community until a public hearing is scheduled potentially in October 21st.
The ballots will be mailed on August 24th and the ballot results will be read on November 18th. So should the City Council consider moving forward with a mail ballot proceeding, the City Council will need to adopt the attached three resolutions. The first is approving the engineer's report for their proposed formation of the 2026 Parks Improvement District and levy and a collection of assessments. The second is adopting the Prop 218 Assessment Ballot Proceeding Procedures for the district.
And the third is declaring its attention to order the formation of the district and to levy and collect assessment Pointing a time and place for a public hearing, and directing the mailing of notice of the public hearing and assessment ballots. The City Council could consider other options such as rejecting staff's recommendation and directing staff to return for a potential spring 2027 property owner assessment ballot mailing or provide other direction to staff as deemed appropriate Joining us via zoom is Jeanette Hinson with SCI consulting and we are available for questions. Thank you
Thank you. There any questions of staff No questions Do have any speakers?
Yes, Mr. Mayor we have two speakers on this item The first speaker is Daniel Politi and he will be followed by Matt Tobin And as this is a presentation item you have three minutes to address the council
Respectfully requesting the upper bound of five minutes since we've sat it out this long as that is part of the That
would be at the mayor's
discretion. Only if needed, by the way. Five minutes. Thank you sir. Pack it in. All right Good evening. Before I get to the meat and potatoes of the specific topic, Council Member Mayes, I want to respond briefly to the comment about not wanting meetings to become call-and-response sessions. Respectfully, public comment is not call-and-response, it's public participation. The agenda literally calls for public speakers and residents to respond with their concerns. That's not disruption of the civic process, that is the civic process. I wanna say that remarks like that can be discouraging to residents who already feel nervous speaking in these chambers. The first time I gathered the courage to speak here another dismissive comment was made that it looked like show-and-tell night after I finished speaking.
I understand that public meetings can be long but residents who research documents, visuals and questions are not trying to perform we're trying to participate responsibly I respect the experience on this council. I understand you have impressive credentials including work as a master's professor in compensation, as you stated earlier. I also bring a relevant background as an economist, statistician, operations research analyst, veterans and in one semester I'll hold a master's degree in data analytics.
Honestly, the credential I value the most is basic civil literacy. The willingness to read question compare and think critically about these public decisions. So I'm just asking respectfully please do not dismiss research public comment as call-and-response. You are elected by the public to represent the public and when residents come prepared and ask questions and try to engage with city business in good faith it should be welcome not minimized or dismissed that being said The example of that was my contention with the previous one on the mobile home park, was not we're making money from our grant. It is subsidizing a refinance really the best way to represent...
You may have to stick to
the... I understand and this is directly relevant. I just don't want my research minimized. That being said okay so for this one and still within the time hopefully When a new Parks and Recreation Assessment District is proposed, the public deserves plain English breakdown of the benefits, costs to vendors, contract controls and performance metrics. I would ask Council to require staff to clearly answer several questions before moving forward. What is the project annual assessment revenue? Which parcels pay? And they have some of these questions but The answers that they've given in previous meetings discuss seniors being exempted from this and some other things. So when you look at the cost breakdown of who pays what with their location to a park, I noticed that some of Moorpark's most well-to-do are the majority of people farthest away from the parks because of how parks are designed within the neighborhoods of the family homes.
So I would really like to see a breakdown of the average family income or house I feel like this tax is being proposed, the special tax or This is a senior group of homeowners, and when you look at the aging demographics that were presented in the state of the county finance presentation a couple things back, the average age of the initial homeowner now is creeping farther and farther back almost to the 40's.
for people in their 30s with what used to be a normal job that could give you the 3.5 and a picket fence, to be living at home these days? So I would ask that when we evaluate these potential taxes, we do it through the lens of every citizen. The idea that five different families in a multifamily housing unit are going to pay approximately the same as a single family that's farther removed from the parks. It seems a little bit unfair, just there's no other word for it so again I'm not against parks that's why I moved here. I just want these costs to come with more transparency and it's not about call-and-response At my job, all of our stuff like this has to be what they call smart goals. And it's just an industry term. It means is it specific, measurable, attainable, realistic and time-bound?
That leaves very little room to just wiggle around amalgamous or unrefined contracting so I would ask that maybe city staff and council start looking at things with more measurable and attainable... Analytical metrics that we can hold these projects to and and use them as the benchmarks for discussion on Further support and money dumped into them. I appreciate you guys this time Thank you very much, and I appreciate everyone's expertise on the council.
4:13 – 4:1810 turns
Thank you
And our other speaker is Michael Tobin I'm sorry, Matt Tobin. And Mr. Mayor, do you wish to extend five minutes to the speaker as well? Five
minutes, yes.
Thank you.
Thank you, I won't need that much time and we'll come full circle, I promise. Good evening Council, Matt Tobin again. I want to raise a concern around a pattern I've noticed Good faith projects that start with a modest, well-intentioned scope but grow significantly by the time they're built. The library moved from 23 million estimated to 37 million at the final cost in roughly 50% increase over that three year period from concept to now breaking ground The children's art installation followed a similar path. It started at $350,000 and through tonight has kind of gone full circle into now we actually have to push back on where $350,000 is really going.
When asked about rebidding for reworking those art elements.
I'm so sorry, but the item we're here on is on the parks
assessment. Yeah and I'm getting there, I promise full circle. That aspect that Mr. Laurentesky indicated about the time of 15 months to nearly get to that in a rebidding process if we took it outside of Studio Y That's real practical constraint, but it's also direct consequence of not building in competitive reviews earlier in the process to be able to course correct within a given timeline. I think that's a lack of early foresight from just a planning perspective. So here's the full circle, right?
I'd suggest that this pattern, that is good intentions outrunning early costs and process discipline is part of why we're now looking at new parks assessment tonight. So this theme ultimately is now getting to a point where yes, you know why do we have to do a parks assessment? Well maybe if we planned a little bit earlier started thinking a little bit earlier maybe we could avoid having to have any assessment thank you
And those are the only speaker cards I have on this item.
Okay, all right, so we'll move back into discussion. Yeah, I just want to highlight that the parks assessment situation is not something that is born out of a result from spending on a library or anything else. This is something that we've seen for many years as an approaching structural deficit. If we had a bunch of money sitting in the general fund, we still should not be having structural deficits obviously. So now when you look at the timing of all this, that's one of the things that makes me a little uneasy moving into this. We have a lot of projects we discussed and now it looks like we're trying to look at getting more money because we spent too much and it's not the case but yeah let's open up for discussion
Yeah, I can add. I mean we've spent a lot of time on this so but I think freedom given that we have maybe different people paying attention this time If you take a look at what the city has done in terms of maintaining costs We go back to the staff report in 2016 And I think given that we've had cost escalations in almost every other arena, the fact that we have a well established general fund contribution.
To maintaining a level of service for the parks is notable. So it certainly isn't an issue in this case of general fund cost escalation. If we give the public the opportunity to weigh in, in terms of what their priorities are. Either way it gives us a better sense of what's the community's level of investment is in the parks. If this passes, great. We have an understanding that they care that much in order to take on an assessment.
If the community has the opportunity to vote and declines that, that also gives us really necessary input in terms of our prioritization Because just as we talked about in our last budgetary conversation, the parks are one element or one area for potential service reduction. But it may not be the only area for potential service reduction as we look at our structural deficit. So those are some of the factors that led me to this point.
4:19 – 4:246 turns
I'm up next. Based on the conversation we had on Monday, I believe that we are headed towards having a much better idea of what this council's goals are, much better idea of what our budget is going to look like as we approach the end of the year and the beginning of next year. And looking at the results and statistically the support of the public on this is a coin flip.
I don't feel like there was an overwhelming And I think it's important to recognize that we have a lot of time for education. From a budgetary standpoint for a decade essentially, I would pay these fees. Like I would willingly do it for Moorpark but I don't feel that we as a council have made a compelling enough argument at this point to go to the people and ask them for that and if we do decide as a council that we're gonna go ask for this or we're going to allow it It's something that people can vote on and it doesn't work. It's not like we can go back next year and be like, oh okay well let us tell you more so I'd rather we be completely confident in what we are doing as a council that story, and we've looked for the other places for efficiency and maybe some budget changes before we go out.
So my preference would be that we postpone this. We reject this currently and postpone this until a conversation for January at which time we could look at doing it next spring if it's determined with better numbers and visibility that it's a need that we have. But based on the last meeting we had We we really don't know what we should be expecting over the next two three four years and a lot of that's going to depend on what Decisions we make and while I know it's different budgets in the wake of the very last item It is something that we as a council should have some certainty around. I think before we go in and ask people to make this decision
Thoughts?
Yeah, I teetered a lot last time we had this conversation on which direction to go whether to move forward with that engineering report or wait. And I've had a lot of conversations since with a lot of people and even organizations. I've talked to the Ventura County Taxpayers Association. I reached out to lots of places to find what their thoughts are, and I haven't gotten a no you shouldn't do this.
But I have overwhelmingly heard really right now versus say next spring. So I would be in favor of what Tom just proposed as far as timing Standpoint and considering this but but delaying it
Right
I was pretty set last time, but I'm kind of teetering now as well. I think I would be okay either way. I would love to know sooner than later and I would love to start the you know if it as long as obviously if it passes great we start accruing that now. But I completely am hearing both sides so I'm still on the fence.
Well my opinion is if it worked now, it'll definitely work next time. If it doesn't work now, it might not work next time and there wouldn't be a next time I don't think we're in a position to do this in a manner that takes enough time And like I said, I don't want to go out there and advocate for things. I want to get the most information to the people in this city to make them have the decision. I don't want to try to word things differently to have some scheme like every other bill is passed around here.
Not here but in the state or the government in general. Do you not-not-not wanna have that? I don''t wanna do games like that. So I think that it's much better to delay this as well. And also there is an election coming up, a governor race. There is a lot of noise, a lot of political noise happening. A lot of bills and I think this could get tossed into that noise and not be a focus. Whereas if we waited till January, it could be the only focus that we're having to discuss. And that could be a lot easier to get people to pay attention and learn about why we're doing this.
On top of that after our discussion on Monday you know there are other strings to pull on this. I think if we're spending general fund money in other ways and then backfilling the general fund with parks, then we're essentially making an assessment to fund the other things that the general funds are spending on. And in the past, heard the hints of we might have to close a park, we might have to do this. But I think that comes at kind of like an unfounded threat without having the ideas of what we'd have to do. So I am in agreeance with, well, it depends if Renee changes her mind or not but I'm all for delaying this.
4:24 – 4:3016 turns
I can weigh in on that too. One of the things, we were having previous discussions and I had to be restrained about talking specifically about the parks but now that we're talking specifically about the parks, I can. I am, can be in support of the delay with the council's understanding of one of the things that we've started contemplating but we couldn't obviously have the discussion is If in that time there comes forward a conversation about reductions to parks, the next logical conversation is which parks.
And that's the part where when we start to talk about a service reduction that affects different parts of the community differently without having had the opportunity to allow the community to weigh in, that is something where I think again it's not like it's a promise that we can make to one another but it is just something as colleagues, you to understand that if we end up in lieu of not moving forward and we're in a place where we start to talk about service reduction specifically in the parks. My sincere ask is then we look at a framework like a needs framework in terms of utilization because coming back to for example the election yes, we can absolutely do like the educator, the education of the community we should One of the things that's unique, though, is that people pay more attention during certain times of year.
We don't know what the level of engagement will be. The stats were never really all that great. It was unfortunate that it was really a coin flip. It could go either way especially when you're looking at the margin of error. We knew that going in, the community has struggled with making this type of investment over multiple iterations. So in our community these things are never a sure thing.
So again my ask is that if we're in the position of talking about service reduction that's specific to parks That we are thoughtful about which communities we are talking about affecting when they close specific parks. And that burden, if there is one, be something that is spread across the city and doesn't fall disproportionately on one part of the community.
Part of the reason that I'm as comfortable as I am delaying is that I thought that I had heard and I'll ask city staff again And perhaps mr. Gagahania will direct it towards you in the next 12 months Is there any? Foreseeable outcome that we would have to close any parks regardless of where they are in the city if we don't take this action tonight
No, not in the next 12 months. 24 months? I think I would recommend and I think I'd advise from the budget discussions we've had is when we have that budget workshop and more of an analysis of where we stand, that would probably give us a better idea of what reductions there may be whether in parks or other areas of the general fund.
So for my clarity and to make sure that I'm confident in my where I think I stand We are not looking at closure of any park Or or a reduction of any service in that way Until after we have the budget workshop and the council has the ability to provide direction And then evaluate what priorities might be there,
correct?
Thank you that that helps me and I hopefully that gives some clarity But that definitely isn't the back of my mind that we're not going to have that risk if we did it would change my opinion
Right, so we wouldn't have that opportunity if we move forward now We need that
Yeah, do we really just do that that quickly? We did I think I will move to reject staff recommendation and ask staff to return it for Consideration of spring of 2027 after we've had that workshop.
I'll second. We have a motion in a second. We'll need a roll call
Councilmember means
hi
mayor integrin.
Hi
Roll-call vote Passed 2–0 motion in a second. We'll need a roll call
Show transcript
That you're gonna do a 4-1 on us, but they're fun sometimes Okay Excited was 12 closed session. Mr. Hannah.
I'm sorry. Mr. Mayor you didn't have to
Oh I'm sorry, I'm sorry. It's late. Next item is 11A ordinances. Let's consider ordinance number 533 adding chapter 5.68 to the Moorpark Municipal Code entitled goodnight guys. Entitled High Street Entertainment Zone, establishing an entertainment zone adopting the boundaries operational requirement and procedures in compliance with the California State Senate Bill 969. And then we have any recusals?
4:30 – 4:3212 turns
Yes. Mr. Mayor, I'm recusing myself from this item because the item could financially affect the owner of my employer Insurance Brokers West and the property, owner's property located at 233 High Street. Thank
you. Likewise, Mr. Mayor, I am recusing myself from this item because it involves the addition of new uses on High Street within 500 feet of my home. State law presumes that my property will be affected by this decision.
Ms. Marroquin?
This is ordinance number 533, an ordinance of the City of Moorpark California adding chapter 5.68 to the Moorpark Municipal Code entitled High Street Entertainment Zone, Establishing an Entertainment Zone Adopting the Boundaries Operational Requirements and Procedures in Compliance with the California State Senate Bill 969-2024 A motion would be in order to waive further reading, declare ordinance number 533 red for a second time and adopt it as red.
So moved.
Do we need a second?
Second. We have a motion and a second. We'll need a roll call.
Roll-call vote Passed 3–0 motion and a second. We'll need a roll call.
Show transcript
And the record will reflect that council members Barrett and Castro are accused from this item. Motion carries 3-0
Just noting how quickly these items go when you're not in the room. Probably not correlated.
Next item is 12, closed session. Mr. Agahena?
Mayor staff has no closed session this evening.
All right next is item 13 I'll make a motion to adjourn all in favor aye Thank You and good night Moorpark