BodyCity Council
MeetingRegular Meeting
Date📅 October 21, 2026

UnGovr Transcript

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0:00 – 0:054 turns

Pledge of Allegianceceremonial · click to expand · ≈24s recited, not transcribed
UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed0:09

Good evening. I'd like to call to order the regular meeting of the Moorpark City Council for October 21st, 2026. And since tomorrow is his birthday, will Deputy Community Development Director Gene Burse please lead us in the pledge?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed0:45

Would clerk please take roll?

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by role0:48

Good evening Councilmember Barrett. Present. Councilmember Delgado. Present. Council Member Means. Present. Mayor Innegren. Present and the record will reflect that council member Castro is absent this evening

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:02

Next is item for proclamations and accommodations Item 4a as a proclamation declaring October 2026 as domestic violence awareness month. Well, Miss Jill Abouy please representing the Siroptimus Club of Simi Valley in Moorpark and available members please join me at the dais in front We still haven't figured this out yet. A proclamation of the Moorpark City Council proclaiming October 2026 as Domestic Violence Awareness Month. Whereas, October was first declared as Domestic Violence Awareness month in 1989 this annual campaign raises awareness about the prevalence and impact of intimate partner violence on our survivors and victims and connects communities with resources Whereas more than 1 in 3 women in the United States and nearly 43.5 million have experienced contact sexual violence, physical violence or stalking by an intimate partner in their lifetime.

And whereas more than 1 in 20 U.S. women experience intimate partner contact sexual violence, physical violence and or stalking in the past year alone. Whereas in 2024, a national crime victimization survey counted nearly 783,000 intimate partner violent victimizations. Roughly one in eight violent victimizations that year. Whereas young women face especially high rates of intimate partner violence and most female victims first experience it before age 25.

Whereas a weapon has been present in about one in five intimate partner violence victimizations against women and crime victimization studies. Whereas domestic violence is not confined to any group or groups of people, but crosses all economic, racial, gender, educational, religious and societal barriers. Whereas domestic violence individuals' privacy, dignity, security and humanity We're a Suroptimist International Simi Valley Moorpark provides support to women experiencing crisis and those pursuing a better life for herself and her children through the Live Your Dream Award.

The Debbie Thomas Founders Award and the other programs made possible through events such as Little Black Dress. And whereas Seroptimist's mission is to empower women and girls to reach their full potential, and live safe healthy and productive lives. Raising awareness about domestic violence is an important part of that mission. Particularly because education community awareness can help prevent violence and support those who may be experiencing it. Now, therefore be it resolved that the Moorpark City Council hereby proclaims October 2026 as Domestic Violence Awareness Month to increase awareness of intimate partner violence and to encourage victims to seek assistance and support. A witness whereof, Moorpark City Council does set its hand and cause a seal of the city of Moorpark to be affixed this 21st day of October 2026.

PresenterJill Abulaalmost 70 mProposedself-stated4:33

Good evening. My name is Jill Abula, and I'm honored to be here tonight to represent Seroptimus International of Simi Valley and Moorpark. These five ladies behind me are representing almost 70 members of our organization. They work very hard to raise funds to provide scholarships and grants to young women and girls who sometimes They are recovering or they've been victimized in the past by domestic violence. We also work to raise awareness of human trafficking as well and all of that's possible because of the generosity of people like the citizens of Moorpark and residents here, and the City Council and city staff so thank you for having us tonight And for recognizing October as Domestic Violence Awareness Month. You notice that some of us are wearing purple, that's the color designating October domestic violence awareness so we invite you to join us and wear purple this month might bring more awareness to this issue and if you are experiencing domestic violence and you need help, we encourage you to call 211.

The County of Ventura has resources to help you out as well. Thank you again.

0:06 – 0:092 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed6:26

All right, item 4B is a proclamation declaring October 2026 as Fire Prevention Month. Will Ventura County Fire Department Division Chief Guillermo de la Rosa and Prevention Bureau representative please join me in front of the dais? I think we dodged a bullet last week. Got pretty windy but never cooked off. There we go. We got a proclamation I'll read it off. A proclamation of the Moorpark City Council proclaiming October 2026 as Fire Prevention Month, whereas fire prevention and public safety are essential to safeguarding and protecting the lives, homes, neighborhoods, businesses, natural resources, and overall well-being of our residents. Whereas Fire Prevention Month serves as an important opportunity to educate the public about the fire hazards, promote prevention practices, and encourage individuals, families, and communities to take steps to reduce the risks of fire.

Whereas the 2026 theme, Charge into Fire Safety, Safe Charging as a Superpower, emphasizes the importance of safe charging practices and raising awareness of the fire risk associated with lithium-ion batteries and devices they power including smartphones, laptops, e-bikes other rechargeable equipment. Whereas lithium-ion battery fires can occur when batteries or charged equipment are damaged improperly used, overcharged or incompatible with devices they power making it essential to follow instructions and recognize warning signs of battery failure. Whereas residents can help prevent fires by using manufacturer-approved charging equipment and charging devices on hard services. Whereas the city recognizes the dedication and services of firefighters emergency responders educators and community partners who work throughout the year to prevent fires respond to emergencies and promote public awareness And whereas through education, preparedness and shared responsibility residents of all ages can become everyday fire safety champions and help create a safer community.

Whereas the city would like to commend the Ventura County Fire Department for its dedication to educating the public about fire prevention and encourages everyone to take proactive safety measures Now therefore, be it resolved that Moorpark City Council hereby proclaims October 2026 as Fire Prevention Month and encourages all residents and businesses to observe this month by learning and practicing safe charging habits, reviewing fire prevention measures, taking proactive steps to protect lives and property. In witness whereof, the Moorpark City Council does set its hand and cause a seal of the city of Moorpark to be affixed this 21st day of October 2026.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 2Proposed9:03

Good evening, everybody. Mayor, City Council, thank you so much for the recognition. More importantly, the continued support for our agency and fire prevention. You know, fire prevention isn't always the most glamorous but it truly is the most effective tool in preventing fires and keeping people safe. Keeping property safe and I think our agency gratefully we do it really well but I would say that the biggest contributing factor to that is the relationships that we have. Our agency with the City of Moorpark and with the residents that live in the city of Moorpark and we couldn't do without you guys so thank you very much.

0:10 – 0:1710 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed10:25

Next is item five, public comment. Are there any speakers?

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by role10:28

Yes Mr. Mayor I have two, I'm sorry three speaker cards

Agenda Discussionitems moved / continued / pulled, click to expand
UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by role10:33

on general

public comment since this is public comment on items not on the agenda you have three minutes to address the council our first speaker will be John Davidson followed by Daniel followed by Ashley.

PresenterJohn DavidsonMasters at Moorpark Homeowners Association representing 50 homeownersProposedself-stated10:54

Mr. Mayor, members of the City Council, city managers and the new city attorney I believe we have? My name is John Davidson. I'm the current president of the Masters at Moorpark Homeowners Association representing 50 homeowners. I am here tonight to request specific procedural action concerning our September 30th 2026 written demand for an administrative investigation.

We respectfully request that the City Council take five actions. Place this matter on a properly noticed future City Council agenda for public discussion and possible action. Second, consider authorizing an independent investigation or direct the city manager to return with a proposal including scope, estimated costs, and independent investigative process. Third, in that investigation the city's development approvals will include ADA requirements Inspections, certificates of occupancy, roll curb driveway approvals, acceptance of required improvements and release of performance bonds. Fourth, establish a specific date for follow-up. Fifth, direct the preservation of all relative city records, correspondence engineering documents and inspections.

As you know our concerns involve nearly a decade of city oversight relating to the 50 homes constructed by Toll Brothers. The city approved development plans requiring two substantial 15-foot by 3-foot yellow truncated dome ADA ramps were in the new program or a new plan map that were never installed. The homeowners were never informed of that, and it was ongoing for over eight years before we found out about that.

Serious questions also remain concerning the city's approval of the original road curb design for which we have not had an appropriate answer in seven years. Today, 32 of our 40 homeowners have installed rubber driveway ramps in order to access their property. Meanwhile, certificates of occupancy were issued, homes were occupied and development bonds were released raising significant questions about the city's oversight and accessibility compliance.

These are not isolated concerns. They involve decisions across multiple city departments for over nearly a decade There's another fundamental issue before the council. The City Council has a responsibility to make decisions based upon complete, truthful and accurate information provided by the city manager and staff. And when material facts are disputed, the council must not simply accept administrative representations without reasonable verification but independent review is essential to informed oversight and public accountability.

Moorpark Municipal Code Section 2.12.060 identifies the city manager's administrative responsibilities, while section 2.04.120 addresses the City Council's investigative authority.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed13:55

Thank

PresenterJohn DavidsonMasters at Moorpark Homeowners Association representing 50 homeownersProposedself-stated13:56

you.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed13:56

Time is up. We'll take this offline.

PresenterJohn DavidsonMasters at Moorpark Homeowners Association representing 50 homeownersProposedself-stated13:59

Okay.

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by role14:07

And our next speaker is Daniel, who will be followed by Ashley.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 3Proposed14:18

Good evening, Council. Today I want to use my public comment time to ask about the Alper cameras and the development with the Flock and the Axon discussion that we were promised almost two months ago by PJ. I'm asking for clear public answers about automated license plate readers, the records used to oversee them and who is responsible for those records leave important questions unanswered Residents should not have to become forensic data analysts to understand a surveillance system that their government helps fund.

My output review identified serious limits in what the supplied records can establish, they do not reliably connect the recorded activity to an identified user, documented purpose, a case or an outcome. That means we don't know if these were false flags, if there was a warrant, if there was any just cause, or if they thought that the comment reason was nice ass or you know LOL what?

Which are documented cases in other public facing records, ones that were provided without the obfuscation. So I would like for them to explain the redactions, identify the basis for withholding the information and distinguish what information was withheld because we don't know. They gave us four columns and redacted everything else. There was no record of any formal training, which is one of the requirements that was set forth in the contract that you guys have with them. They said there was no records, not no responsive records. We don't keep these records. So that means nobody's being trained on the system that the first thing you have to do is require that they're trained or they're refusing to provide the documentation of that to a public records request.

Why are the cops acting like criminals? I don't know. And is it every one of them? No. But come on man. The unusual shifts around the end of the month. The data requests, they're often being cut off a little bit early like there's a mass search being conducted at the end of the month and the numbers show it so that those were intentionally kind of left out and there's a 35-page report at justtrustusbro.vcso.replit.app I was told by our chief of police, Nick Odenath that they need warrants for this and that. But then they redact the column that specifies if they had a warrant and if they got an actual hit. And I'm told that no one at his level would do that. But then the officers who we paid out as a county $500,000 because they beat up a bouncer in front of a million of these FOC cameras over at the El Rey Cantina?

Well, one of them is the son of his equivalent in Fillmore. So I really have some accountability questions over the system. And in Camarillo, the same agency has a father-son duo asking to circumvent public questions. He's writing the CEO of the company saying how do I address these concerns instead of or he's saying how do I circumnavigate and avoid these concerns instead of how do i address them with the data?

That's not sad. I don't care what badge you're wearing your responsibility is us we're paying you and when it comes to them we're paying a lot of them almost four hundred thousand dollars that's VCSO by the way so Yay. Thank you.

0:17 – 0:235 turns

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by role17:24

And the last speaker I have is Ashley.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 4Proposed17:29

Good evening, City Council. I'd like to give you all the latest abduction numbers as of October 21st. 805 Area Code is now at 3,028 people. We are up 334 abductions. Ventura County is at 1,360. We are now up 90. And the numbers for Moorpark are at 26. We're up by two. Incidents since September 12th. Seven ICE reports resulting in six confirmed ICE vehicles and two confirmed abductions in the city of Moorpark.

We were officially in a 45-day surge, and things have escalated quickly. HSI ICE has become really aggressive since the surge has begun. Use of pepper spray, bear mace, tasers, brandishing handguns, brandishing assault rifles and ramming vehicles to get them to pull over. Two 805 undocumented volunteers were taken into custody for constitutionally protected activity with no one identifying themselves from the federal government in either case.

In Ventura, I srammed a father and his three kids off the road then started pepper spraying community members that were unaffiliated with rapid response networks and shoving a firefighter trying to check on the children in the van. The community response ultimately led to them vacating the area which was also the case in Oxnard. In Simi Valley, ICE hit both moving and parked cars while abducting at least two individuals.

Incident involved multiple ICE vehicles and SBPD were on-site observing. Many of those officers on scene were just as disgusted with ICE's actions as the rest of us. Additionally in Simi Valley last week When I responded to a call that someone had been taken, I arrived to find a vehicle parked crooked in a lot with two minors left alone at the scene. They had locked themselves inside the vehicle and were there terrified and crying.

We are literally being terrorized by these federal agents and it looks worse and worse as local law enforcement stands on the sidelines. People will be hurt or killed if the federal agents are not held accountable for their actions soon, and no one will forgive local councils boards or officers for their inaction creating another cycle of generational trauma I'd also like to take this moment to acknowledge the very real struggles being witnessed within your city. A Moorpark employee recently reached out to me in tears, telling me that employees that used to sit together on lunches and breaks chatting about their lives joyfully now spend much of their time discussing their overwhelming fears instead.

And even noted seeing an employee check the parking lot from the safety of the building before making a mad dash to their vehicle. They say this is the new normal, and it absolutely breaks their heart. This is our reality. Thank you for your time and for your consideration I know the city of Moorpark will continue towards a better tomorrow For all its people and look forward to seeing each new step forward

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role20:17

Thank you

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by role20:23

And Mr. Mayor, I've received another comment card this is from Mr. Ken Hurst

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 5Proposed20:32

Good evening. I wanted to further address the issues with Flock. Flock is not a trustworthy company. Repeatedly, their response to being caught in, for example, when the nationwide search flag was set back in February, their response was to shut down the reporting that enabled that to be caught. Right now in Simi Valley, who is using it is completely redacted.

The reason is gone. They used to have that and now in place of that they have a box, there's a pull-down menu that they have to say what kind of crime it is and that they're looking for. We have in Simi Valley on the order of three to five hundred lookups a month. That's far more crimes than occur in Simi Valley by order magnitude And the flock is just not trustworthy. They've been caught with their hand in a candy jar multiple times. Just recently, Chief Dickey who's heading the police department at Ventura City Represented to the City Council that they had done an audit, and there were only a couple of instances where ICE was involved when that switch was thrown.

The audit conveniently went from March to March. If they had gone back another month, they would have found tens of accesses by ICE. And it extended back for quite some time. So that's an extremely unfortunate situation. I have no idea why he represented that to the city council. It could have been any one of a number of reasons, but it was an incomplete answer at best and misleading at best.

In general, right now with Simi Valley all you get is the time at which the flock data was accessed and the drop down menu of about five different things that it could be. That's not acceptable. The point of the log is to be able to tell whether or not it's being accessed by the right people and that is totally redacted, and I believe that's true in Moorpark also.

That's unacceptable. I've filed a Freedom of Information request with Simi Valley and been stiff-armed so far but we will continue to push on that. Thank you.

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0:23 – 0:2910 turns

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by role23:31

And that is the final comment card that I have for general public comment.

CommentAnd DanProposed · by introduction23:35

Thank

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed23:35

you. All right, next is item 6, reordering of and distancing to agenda. I'm going to recommend we pull the items 10A and B and do that after consent if everyone's OK with that. Outside of that, does anyone need to pull anything from the agenda? Consent?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed24:00

Did have one Mr. Mayor, you may have just pulled it. I failed to note it.

CommentDevelopment Director Gene BurseProposed · by introduction24:11

Pardon me for just a second.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 7Proposed24:16

And Mayor, just to clarify we're just reordering items 10A, B and C ahead of the public hearing? Correct. You're

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed24:23

not looking for what we want to pull? I'll get with this meeting at some point relatively soon. Apologies. It's going to be a rough one, we know that.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed24:43

Okay so we'll pull 8F. Next item 7 announcements future agenda items reports on meetings conferences attended by council members and mayor. We'll start with Mr. Barrett

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed25:03

On October 12th, I attended a Marketing Ad Hoc Committee meeting discussing the Children's Library. On October 14th, um, I attended the Fathomworks Summit in Port of Wene'mu. Um, we've been talking about, um...Fathomworks through the Regional Defense Partnership that I'm part of and it was great to see all the innovation and Defense companies coming together to collaborate, and that facility is a special one that we have here in the county.

And one that our businesses here in Moorpark can really benefit from as well. On October 14th, I also attended the Moorpark Chamber of Commerce board meeting. On October 16th, attended the Moorpark Chamber networking breakfast. This was a special breakfast because we actually did it in the dark since there was no power so it did not stop the Chamber of Commerce from meeting and doing their business but definitely It was great to see good attendance and everyone kind of persevering even though many people did not have power in their homes at the time.

And last night, with many of you I attended, with all of you actually, I attended the Moorpark Community Awards. Another wonderful event that was put on by the Moorpark Chamber of Commerce and it was wonderful to see all the great works that people in the city of Moorpark are doing and to recognize some of them for that. Thank you.

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UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed27:06

All right. On October 8th, I attended the Moorpark Young Professional Group at the Tiara Rejada Golf Course. We meet this second Thursday of every month at a different Moorpark restaurant and our November 12th meeting will be at Lemos Pizzeria at noon so please come join us 40-ish and under. On October 9th, I attended the opening night of Frozen at the High Street Arts Center.

I say it every time I see a show there but truly this one really blew me away. Incredible talent on that stage! If you haven't seen it yet please treat yourself to a great evening out. On the 12th I had the Library Ad Hoc meeting with Councilmember Barrett regarding the interior of the library On the 14th, also along with Council Member Barrett, I attended the Chamber of Commerce board meeting. And on the 14th I also attended the teen council meeting and got to speak to our new teen council.

On the 15th, I attended Fathomworks Summit at the Navy base in Port Hueneme. The summit's goal is to encourage relationships between industry, academia and the Navy. On October 16th, I attended the Chamber of Commerce Breakfast by Candlelight since as Council Member Barrett mentioned there was no power. I also had the opportunity to speak with NBC's John Cadiz-Klimak about the PSPS event. He happened to be walking down the street so I dragged him into our meeting and he did a segment which highlighted Moorpark's disproportionate amount of power outages On October 17th, I attended the See Me Moorpark Relay for Life event put on by the American Cancer Society.

And yesterday along with all of you here, I also attended the Chamber of Commerce Community Awards. I always enjoy celebrating the people who go above and beyond in Moorpark and they truly make it such a great place to live and work and raise a family so I'm happy to have honored them.

0:29 – 0:322 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed29:03

Mr. Means, thank you mayor from October 13th through 15th I was in Santa Barbara at the YPO Pacific regional leadership conference discussing with other leaders in the western region Western United States vision and good leadership and stewardship Then as mentioned already On the 20th of October. I attended the Moorpark Community Awards with 20 unique winners throughout Moorpark Some of which are here today not least of which being you mr. Mayor, so congratulations on your award hotly contested No library tours in Santa Barbara I should have gotten to a library but I was so busy hoping and wishing that you were gonna get that award that I forgot completely

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UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed29:50

As for myself, Thursday October 8th I along with city manager Gagahena attended Moorpark High School at the college to talk about City of Moorpark governmental leadership. We do that every year it's always a great turnout. On Thursday October 15th I took part in the Which seems like it's a yearly Edison fail and I celebrated that by making my own power with gasoline, which is really fun. Bunch of extension cords and hope that goes away at some point but it feels like Moorpark is always getting the short end of this stick.

Tuesday October 20th, which was yesterday attended the Moorpark Community Awards and that is all I have to report. And I've got a few announcements here Pull on your quads or blades and join us for Halloween Hits Skate Night on Sunday, October 25th from 4 to 6pm at the Royal Vista Community Park. Enjoy an evening of skating, music and games plus fun activities for non-skaters. There will also be a costume contest. Admission is free. For more information visit moorparkca.gov slash skate On October 31st, visit Haunted High Street for Halloween fun including trunk retreating, a carnival with games and attractions, a live DJ, the Moorpark Library's Arts & Craft Pumpkin Patch, food trucks and more. Carnival admission is $5 in advance, $10 at the gate.

All activities are free. For details and to purchase carnival tickets, visit moorparkca.gov slash haunted. As we get ready for El Nino rains this year, the city has rolled out two self-service sandbag stations for Moorpark residents. Sand and bags are available but residents will need to fill their own bags. Sandbag stations are located at Via Campancina Park on La De Yancey Road and the south end of College View Avenue next to Moorpark Dog Park.

Note that the former station at the Moorpark City Library is no longer open since we're building a new Moorpark library on that site. More information is available online at moorparkca.gov slash sandbags Okay, next item is a consent calendar we pulled item F so I'll entertain a motion for the balance Thank you good motion in a second we need a roll call vote

Roll-call vote Passed 4–0 motion in a second we need a roll call
Show transcript
Councilmember Means. Aye. Councilmember Delgado, aye. Councilmember Barrett, aye. Mayor Innegrit, aye.

0:32 – 0:3714 turns

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by role32:19

And the record will reflect that council member Castro is absent this evening.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed32:24

Okay, move to item 8F. Consider agreement co-sponsoring the Rotary Club of Moorpark's morning holiday on High Street event for a three year term.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed32:34

Ms. Sandifer? Mayor Integron if I may, I'm not sure if I have a conflict on this event but because I am involved in the planning of it I'm just going to recuse myself out of an abundance of caution.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 10Proposed33:01

Good evening City Mayor, Mayor and City Council members. Jessica Sandifer I don't have a presentation prepared this evening but I'm happy to answer any questions about the item

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed33:14

Yeah, thank you. This is regarding something that I think the whole community rallies around and the city support is appreciated and appropriate but it's a three-year contract with the Rotary Club of Moorpark and because it's three year contract and because it's impacting some things like our costs being as much as almost $20,000 a year Some of the future items that we may consider in street safety, like bollards may change that or in other security options could change that. Some of the developments that may happen even later tonight could change some of these details and so I just wanted to pull it because it's a multi-year contract. It's a lot of money. Thank you to city staff for taking the time to walk me through it. We can exit this contract.

So we do have a clause if things materially change That we could say, oh this isn't working for us or we can save some money Or we can provide better services for less But I just wanted to call it out because it is a three-year contract spending Spending a bit of money and please if I stated that incorrectly at all you are the expert. I am not

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 10Proposed34:20

No, it is contingent upon the City Council budgeting for the event. So yeah

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed34:25

Thank You

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed34:26

Yeah, I agree with that point. Also we discussed or which we will discuss soon is the business improvement district in High Street as a possibility that could come down the pipeline and I think right now it's kind of hard because things are a little vacant right now but I've heard a lot of new things that might be coming in that might be great so Not to throw it out there yet, but I see that coming around. And when we have more businesses down there and a business improvement district, I'm sure there's going to be more collaboration with the groups that are going to be there, especially with entertainment zones and so on.

So I don't see any reason to not just approve this every year because we've been doing this for the last about five years. It's been a great event, but I don't see any value of just putting a three-year contract together

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed35:17

So are you saying to just do a one-year contract?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed35:19

Yeah. We don't need a contract at all, we just do it every year. Okay. And we can change it every year if we need to. We won't lose anything. I

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed35:29

guess question for staff, question for expert. Is there a reason why the Rotary prefers or we preferred a three-year contract?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 10Proposed35:37

I don't recall who brought it up, so I'm not going to say who brought it up. But I believe one of the council comment was when we were continually bringing these events back annually and we know that they're successful and we're going to do them annually could we do a three-year term just so we don't have to you know sort of do the paperwork all the time? So that was the impetus for it. I don''t recall who made the comment on and when made the comment but when the agreement came back around We chose not to do with country days this year because they are a new Operator organizer for the event so we're still getting them time to get some feet under them But holiday on high street has been around for several years now, and so we felt we could Attempt the three-year agreement You know to save a little bit on the staff time then all obviously we did give ourselves the out should the City Council choose to not You know Budget for the event or budget in a lesser amount so that we would have to modify it We could just have a new agreement at that time But we could certainly convert back to the one-year agreement It would be that you know minor changes to the agreement to do that

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed36:44

So if I'm hearing right this body requested it and then we're asking why we requested it I don't blame Antonio Yeah, let's blame he who is not here. I can see why for administrative purposes it's easier to have a longer term contract. It's certainly something we want the out clause for us I think is important and with us only having to provide 30 days I'm willing to go that route. I also could be equally talked into reviewing it annually depending on what your preference is.

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UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed37:18

It takes place pretty much inside of the private development that's vacant right now so... If things were to change the whole event can changes completely so I see a very big variability which is. Country days different story on the street city owned property so.

0:37 – 0:3913 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 10Proposed37:39

Yeah, I mean the bulk of their event though is still on High Street. That's where all the vendor booths are they still use the Metrolink lot for their kids areas and stuff like that so the event covers the use mostly of the street And the Metrolink lot in any of the other city properties that they leverage for for the event but not not the village green That's completely up to you The daily group to continue a lot to allow them to use that so

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed38:05

Yeah, it's a great event. I just don't see the need for any contract really. I'd rather have the flexibility.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed38:14

Given the time of year with what's in front of us if we were to change this from a three-year to a one-year are we creating a timing issue for any of the parties involved?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 10Proposed38:25

I think you can, and I would look to the city attorney for this. But I believe you can just direct us to draft the one year agreement. I mean really it changes a whereas or two otherwise the language would be fairly similar. That's really all I modified to make it a multi-year agreement. So if I ask the city attorney for advice.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 11Proposed38:44

I don't see a reason that this would be held up any further than that. You can just, the council can direct us to make those edits if it seems fit.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed38:52

I don't have a preference Mr. Mayor, if you do then I'm happy to bring it to a one year and excited to see what we're doing next year at High Street and how that may change some of the options.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed39:02

Yeah, I'll just do that. It makes sense.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed39:05

You want to move it?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed39:05

Yeah, I'll move to change that to a one-year.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed39:08

I'll

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed39:08

second. Do we have motion to second? We need a roll call.

Roll-call vote Passed 3–0 motion to second? We need a roll call.
Show transcript
Mayor Ingram. Aye. Council Member Means. Aye. Council Member Delgado. Aye
UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by role39:20

And the record will reflect that Council Member Barrett has recused and Council Member Castro is not present this evening.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed39:41

Okay, we're going to move to Presentation Action Discussion Item 10A. Let's consider Water Rate and Monthly Meter Charge Adjustment presentation by Water and Sanitation Director Paul Chan from Ventura County Water Works District 1. Good evening

0:39 – 0:477 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 13Proposed39:59

Mayor, Councilmembers. Thank you so much for having me here tonight. And it is my goal to be here more often as the water and sands director to ensure that we have positive and open communication. As you know, the Moorpark service area consists of both water and sewer. What you see in the shaded blue area is only for sewer because sewer's really only for the City of Moorpark. And then at the outlying areas to include the unincorporated area is Water Work District 1 which includes Moorpark.

And just some short facts, 177 miles of water lines. Five ground water wells right now we have one operational. 19 reservoirs and then 11 booster pump stations. As you can see the establishment dates. Some of our pipes especially in the high street is over 100 years old so... And then rate adjustment, we just completed a rate study with Riftelis Financial Consultant. So they actually did a cost to service rate assessment for us and the report will be coming out later on this month.

And that consider inflationary adjustments as water imported water costs from Cayagas because 85% of the District 1's water comes actually from Cayagas imported water and 15% of our water comes from groundwater. And then, in addition to that for Cayagas, they're increasing the rates for 5% in 27 and then 5.8% in 28. And then as part of the financial reserves for the county, you guys probably have seen this before, we require 10% of operating revenue and 25% of the operating expenses to be part of reserves. And Water Work District 1 Waterworks has no issues with that.

And this is the rates compared to Water Work District 1 in Cayegas. As you can see, you're keeping up with the averages. No big issues here. The next one, as you can see from the slide before we actually requested a 10% increase in 26. Despite that there's some good news. Conservation is working however that also means that the number of units of water we're buying is less so we went from 9000 acre feet. Acre feet is roughly three Olympic sized pool about 1 meter deep or one foot deep so that creates mental image in regards to what an acre foot is.

So we went from about 9,000 acre feet to about 8,500 acre feet and now we're hovering around 7,500 acre feet mainly because we're using more recycled water which is kind of nice right? Because that's also a lot cheaper for irrigation your golf courses rustic canyons farm area so all that is now being supplied and supported by reclaimed water But however, even with the 10% increase last year we had a $1.6 million deficit in the Water Work District 1 water accounts and that's really because of the number of units. So just like El Nino it is great for the city and everybody else because rain is always good for us to fill up the reservoir groundwater percolation. However there might be some impact in regards to Water District 1 mainly because we would sell less units when it's raining And what we have proposed is a 9% water rate increase for both 27 and 28 to keep things steady, to ensure that we're on the right path.

And then we were focused on high priority CIP. And what that means is, what we talked about before, 85% of our water comes from imported and only 15% is from groundwater. In groundwater... I'll go to the next slide. Groundwater saves you roughly $1,000 per acre foot. So the more groundwater you can extract, the more affordable your water rates can be and also more resilient in case of any droughts and any concerns during hot seasons or If Cayegas actually decided to reduce the number of units that they'll give to Moorpark or Waterworks District 1, this will allow you to have a reliable resilient source of water.

So what we have proposed as part of the rate increases is to do three major projects. It's a new Grimes Reservoir. And I don't know if you guys know your water zone too well, so right now all the groundwater is really supporting the unincorporated areas. The city of Moorpark by itself is really being supplied by Cahagas. So if we can do an integration of Zone 744 and also 757 then I can actually put groundwater into the city and I can blend it also use more of the groundwater. Because right now I'm capped on how much ground water I can use is roughly 1800 acre feet, because that's all the demand does in the unincorporated area side. But if I enter a city, I can use the maximum groundwater allocation of 26,000 or 2,661 acre feet per year. So which will Actually, it drops you about $1.2 million per year.

So therefore the payback is great if we can get more groundwater. And then here's a recommendation again two-year rate increase 9% for 27 and 28 focus CIP on really trying to get ground water extraction back up and also the Peach Hill and Tierra Rejada tanks backup so you have fire flow storage and everything else Okay. Any questions? That's all I have. Thank you.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed46:01

If you have any questions, go

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed46:04

ahead. So the monthly service charge, they're broken down by the size of pipe. Yes, size of meters. Size of meters, sorry. What is this for everybody to understand what is the average meter size for a single family home built between 70s and 90s?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 13Proposed46:23

So three quarter inch meter and the roughly usage is about 1200 cubic feet. So that's about 600 gallons. And that's what this graph provides, so I'm comparing a normal Typical household use compared to everybody else. And I did want to make one comment both all Amargosa, City of Oxnard, Port Wene'mu and Camarillo they're still working through the rate studies so they'll be doing exactly what I'm doing now going through Prop 218 also rate adjustments

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed46:55

I just have one more question. Go ahead. So it's not just a rate increase, you're also lowering the thresholds for different tiers? Yes. Is there a reason for that and then what would that actually be for someone who was in one tier and is now being bumped to the more expensive tier so what is the actual rate increase for someone like that?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 13Proposed47:15

So if you look at Tier 1, there was no change in Tier 1. So as long as you consume which is a normal household 9.33 hundred cubic feet, there shouldn't be any changes at all in regards to your tier. But what happens is if you are not conserving, and also the data that was driven before was about 10 years old. So that's why we did a rate study, looked at our consumption data for the past five years and do a rolling average so therefore the closer year actually has more relevance.

And then that's when you adjust the tiers because of conservation people are using less water. I don't know if that helps?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed47:54

Yes thank you.

0:47 – 0:5516 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed47:58

Thank you the report appreciate you coming in to talk to us about it and tell us what's going on 9% compounding increases is hard for anybody to take I know that you're aware of it. I'm not not doubting the need I'm not doubting the financials It's just it's just hard to brace for Is it fair to say that with the groundwater that you're attempting to extract and enter into the system, that we would expect lower increases than we otherwise would as we move further into the future?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 13Proposed48:26

That would be the goal. I would like to make sure that water is affordable but in order for us to make it affordable, we have to get our aging infrastructure recapitalized. Especially when you have five water wells, only one of them is operational. I need to get the other four or at least three of them back up so therefore I can maximize your groundwater extraction or allocation.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed48:46

I appreciate that and with the, you mentioned the hundred-year old pipes and the wells that are offline, is there any concern about the quality of the water being delivered to the homes after these projects are done?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 13Proposed48:59

Not at this time. Right now, I will tell you there are some changes in regulation as well on June 2nd 2026 the Water Board recently made manganese be instead of an aesthetic issue is now a health concern so there's now a notification limit and response limit and secondary MCL associated manganese which Well 95 and Well 98 had but they're offline right now so therefore there's no concerns there

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed49:29

That's good to know, thank you for that. Final question relates back to 85% of our water is imported during the drought years that were just a couple of years ago. Our side of the region got impacted, our side of Southern California got impacted potentially, not potentially, greater than other parts of the region with mandatory cutbacks and et cetera. And I was told at the time that was based on not your systems at all but aging infrastructure, infrastructure that hadn't been built that was intended to, plans that never came to development If we're paying more on our rates and some of that is going along to the water that we are buying, are we seeing that infrastructure being improved materially to create water security for our residents here in our region?

not transcribed≈11s of audible speech the AI couldn’t make out▸ listen
UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 13Proposed50:20

I believe so at this time because Cayagas is actually investing in their infrastructure. In addition to that, not sure if the council's aware, Cayagas is also looking at a regional desalter program where you can now extract More shallow layer, brackish water. A little bit more saltier, more higher salinity water which we normally would never use where if you have a desalter you can get up to 25 to 5,000 acre feet per year so therefore that would be new water that we didn't have before. So therefore increases resilience and reliability. And then couple other points on your urban water management plan which included a drought response plan. With that, we did a five-year projection even in the worst case scenario where you have three years of drought by 2030 that would be the first year you would actually get a drought response So right now we're healthy, but because we're healthy, we need to make sure that we stay healthy and also get the recapitalization in place so therefore we can prepare for that rainy day.

Well for us it will be a drought day.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed51:31

I could not agree with you more. While it is working while we have healthy supply is the time to build out an infrastructure for that lack of rainy day. Thank you very much for that.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 13Proposed51:41

Thank you very

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed51:41

much.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 2Proposed51:42

Any comments?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed51:44

Do we have any speakers?

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by role51:46

Yes, Mr. Mayor we do have one speaker on this item and that is Daniel

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 13Proposed51:52

Do I walk away?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 3Proposed52:08

I filed a written one as well talking about specific Prop 218 and the SECA exemption challenge, so they're on the record. Council members, residents deserve to know whether or not these proposed water rates reflect cost serving to them or whether or not we're being asked to absorb the costs left behind as other demand declines, see Agricultural. Your presentation shows agricultural water sales falling almost 30% between fiscal years 2017 and 2026. Domestic sales also fell, but much less. Agriculture contributed to roughly 39% of the total decline despite representing about 20% of the sales at the beginning.

I'm going to skip over a little bit of this. This is a cost absorption by the people of Moorpark, specifically the poorest people in Moorpark, the multi-familied homes. The units and those are going to be absorbing the cost of this at rates specified in his tables on page 11. I argued with him for about 10 minutes before the meeting on whether or not that term even existed, and I was being mocked for saying chat GPT this term, this term. Specific terms in there they're paying the most out of everyone in the city who's gonna foot the bill for this is the people in apartments which are more people cramped into denser areas why are we or them footing?

This is not me, but I'm trying to look out for everybody. Why are they footing the bill for the decline in agricultural costs? Why are the people who have the least getting stuck with this bill? So if you want to see how it actually works out, run a 22 HCF that was tier 2, but it gets bumped to tier 3 because they tightened the belt so that the majority of users from the previous midpoint or above are going to get kicked to the high tier.

So to run this out, because I don't have all the time and presentation skills that fancy suits get. That 22 HCF consumption average family in a multi-use home goes from being one of the least charged to being the most charged under these new rates. And so are we just...I mean, I get that our property taxes and all that, we're going to pay for PJ's stuff with it but Why with every new project is it pointed more and more at the people in Delgado and Castro's districts that are living in the tiniest houses that are getting the least out of this growth that we're getting as a city.

It feels like we're just trying to keep it for the people on the top of the hills. Yeah, I mean these are the same people who have 10 to 1 on these cameras that we're putting up everywhere. And now they're going to get juiced on their water rates as well, but I don't see cameras, flat cameras pointed at Chris Baird Avenue or the gated communities and their water rates and the people that own fields and farms water rates. They only got a 7% difference versus 49%. You talked about the compounding so maybe we do a little math lesson one of these days on how that affects people especially the poorest of us who need it the most.

Thank you.

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by role55:08

And if I may, Mr. Mayor, Mr. Politi also did submit a written statement card in opposition. But for the record, I do want to advise him that Ventura County Water Works District is who sets the rates. So providing us this comment card to place a challenge that really does need to be submitted to the county in order to be acted upon.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 3Proposed55:34

Thank you very much Ms. Bain.

0:55 – 1:214 turns

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by role55:40

Thank you. And that is our final speaker on this item.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed55:43

Alright, so this is a receive and file if you have anything else to discuss. Anyone want to discuss anything? It's concerning the rate increases certainly. Okay we'll receive and file this then move on. Next is presentation, action discussion item 10B. Consider a presentation on library needs assessment and building program. Mr. Laurentowski?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 14Proposed56:22

Thank you Mayor, members of the City Council. So during the August 19th city council meeting the city council requested a future agenda item to better understand the decisions that were made During the design of the library as it relates to the layout of the interior spaces, the intended uses of the spaces and future programming considerations. So in 2017, the city, well back in 2017, the city contracted with Linda Demers to prepare a library needs assessment and building program that would form the basis for these decisions.

Several of you have probably already met Linda but if not I would like to introduce you Ms. Linda Demers, who will present the building program for the Newport Park Library. So Linda I'll bring this up and you can take it from there.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 15Proposed57:29

Go back to the beginning. There we go. Hi, I'm really happy to be here tonight. I can't believe it's been almost 10 years since we started this project and I'm certainly excited to see what it's going to be like in a year when the doors open. I've really enjoyed working with your city and this is really the last project of my career so I want to see One of the best projects in my career. So I'm just going to start with a quick overview of what happened in the last nine years and the key of the project, really the foundation was the needs assessment and we had a very thorough needs assessment. And I'm going to share some of the findings of that with you on the next few slides but Everything that we learned in the needs assessment from your community helped inform us in the rest of the decisions.

Following the needs assessment, we moved into program development and that was a very intense phase of matching programs and services to community needs. This program development was reviewed at every phase through the rest of the project. After we developed a program we had a roll up your sleeves right sizing activity, which basically we asked you and ourselves.

What can you afford to build? What can you afford to maintain? What can you afford to staff and what can you afford to operate because the original construction costs are really a very small part of the lifetime of the service this library will provide And I'll give you an example in a future slide about how we use that right sizing to make some very important decisions.

After we started working with the individual programs, we did a very detailed space needs assessment and that is a series of basically spreadsheets that space by space by space would detail everything that needed to go into that space, to have it functioned, to have it deliver what we intended it to. Whether that would be an office and we would detail bookshelves, desks, chairs, file cabinets...

Every item that should be in that building was detailed and given a space assignment. And after we did all of those calculations We had a size for the building and to that we add what's called non-assignable. That's all the other things you have to pay for, the halls, the corridors, the mechanical ducts, the thickness of the walls is about 7% of the square footage. So with that markup, we came to a number we all felt that really worked to serve your community and that was somewhere between 17 and 20 thousand square feet so That's where that hard number came from.

The space needs assessment also became what I call the architect's assignment. This is what we expect you to deliver us in your plans as you move forward, knowing that not everything would be precise, as the spreadsheet said. So if we asked for 32 chairs and we got 30 in a room, that was fine. If we ask for 50 and we got 30, that wasn't fine. They hadn't fulfilled their assignment for us.

So at this point between the space needs assessment and schematic design, we're building program blocks. The furniture is space holders without any design comment. Once we had these space blocks, we entered what was called schematic design. And this is the part of the program where it really starts to look like a building We have building blocks. We spend time moving them around what should be next to each other for issues like acoustic security, sight lines, natural light as it ends up this building has wonderful north light so we wanted to put people there. We had acoustical issues with where we would place the teen space. The children's room wanted to be near the multipurpose room and this was a series of activities And I believe many of you participated in this where we actually move the pieces around to see what would work best with an entrance on High Street and an entrance at the parking lot in the back, which makes it a little more complicated.

After schematic design, the architects dig in and we get into design development. And the floor plans change during design development. Suddenly roof accesses Fire risers and ADA requirements tighten up and move around. And at that point, furniture is still being laid out on the plan. And now we have a fairly realistic idea of what's going to fit and where it should be.

And from there as you know, we moved to construction documents. Construction documents are the job description for your contractor. And right now you're in construction so The proof is in the pudding. So let's take a quick look at the needs assessment. Number one, we look at the existing conditions. We look at the state's per capita guidelines and standards.

And interesting, Moorpark was on the low end of input measures size of collections square footage what you have and it was on the high end of output measures which means You were actually way over performing on your output measures. Your collection turnover was higher than the state average, your program attendance was off the charts. So we knew I mean, I used to laughingly call you the little engine that could and...

And that to us showed the community needed this they were going to use a new library to its fullest. We did a demographic study, we looked at Housing coming online. We knew that spaces would be very important to children, families. We did an intensive survey. We had focus groups from seniors to teens to volunteers, individual stakeholder interviews. We looked at user statistics and we looked at your operating budget.

Let's go to the next one. So here is the per capita review. And you can see your turnover or your collection use is 120%. of the state average and your program attendance was 107%. We know we were under on some of the others. And when you look at these and you say, well where should we be looking? There was a great interest in more collections and that was one of the big debating points during the planning process was how much would we invest space in collections?

Shelving space is expensive, stacks are expensive And this is one of the areas where we did some right-sizing and looked at your budget. And your collection budget, if you were trying to reach the state median at about two and a half volumes per capita, it would take you about 45 years to reach that, to fill that capacity. And that's an awful lot of stacks to pay for in square footage to tie up. So we comfortably worked back. Let's go to the next slide.

So with the community responded, a lot of children library users. I mean 62% visit the library monthly and that's very high use. Let's go to the next one. Priorities collections, children's programs, the staff. Number four ends up being a really critical point in the conversation about collections Because you do borrow from other libraries and this is a service that really is very finely tuned here, particularly in Ventura County. You know how to move materials back and forth. It can be as quick as the day before you've ordered something and you can have it in your hand in your own library delivered to be picked up there. So again collections on site become less important. The other issue with collections is the use of audio, video, Kindle, eBooks.

It's a crystal ball that we don't have the clarity on that. Books aren't going away. People love libraries. Children and their parents reading... I've had this conversation now for probably 30 years about why do we need books? Because people still want them. They use them. And for many people, they're irreplaceable. Let's go to the next slide. So you can see kind of how we responded to the priorities.

Number one priority was separate children's area. At that time, you had a space that was wide open. The children and the teens were together. Definite call for comfortable seating, space to expand collections and then quality of space Natural light, an innovation center. People felt a childhood toddler area were very important and a separate teen area. So to match all of this information we looked at three distinct community groups children adults and teens each of those had very different needs in collections and in technology, seating and support, and also program space.

And we addressed each of those separately so the children's collections were actually rated much higher than the adults. The turnover for the children's collection was like 17 to 1, 17 uses per each book versus 2 to 1 in the adult. The teens wanted books but they also wanted technology. We had two great meetings with your teen advisory board Interesting, there were from the sixth grade up to seniors in high school that attended those. And the juniors and seniors in high school wanted places for tutoring, SAT workshops, college application.

The sixth graders wanted a swimming pool so that couldn't happen in this project. But in addition to the children's, the adults' and the teens', we have to address the issues of the disabled Visually impaired have special collections. Non-English speakers, which is a large part of your population. People who have literacy challenges. New residents. Some of the focus groups we held people who had just moved to the community arrived and they literally looked at the library. They went to the craft programs. They would come to the programs. Your librarian and your library staff are very welcoming. And we met a lot of people who literally had just moved here And I suspect with the housing growth that there will be more new people moving here.

Not only that, but we have to accommodate staff needs, volunteers and I'm going to give a shout out to your friends of the library group and college students. Students from Moorpark College use your library now and their libraries closed on Saturday and Sunday so I guarantee you once your new library opens they're gonna be using yours too And you've got group study rooms, you've got meeting rooms. You've got places where college students would just thrive to be there. And I think that there'll be maybe more cooperation with the high schools and the colleges to make sure that their needs are accommodated.

So all the while that we're creating these distinct spaces for children's adults and teens, I think one goal that you can move towards in the future, particularly with your multipurpose space. I think it's going to be important to create spaces that foster multi-generational activity. I think... build community building brings together seniors and teens, teens and children, non-English speakers.

One 30 second anecdote, the city of Santa Clarita in their multipurpose room set up tables for a month and they had bought 20,000 pieces of Legos. And for all those weeks people would come and just work on a little corner together from a five-year-old to a nine-year-old and they built a whole city together which to me is just one of the best community building multi generation activities I've ever heard. Let's go to the next one.

So the program content identified some key spaces and you can see over on the top left is adult, on the top right is children, teen and innovation. And then some of the other spaces, the multi-purpose rooms, and I want to talk about those in a minute, and the group study rooms really would be available to everyone for varieties of use. The Friends of the Library are so dedicated to supporting your library So they need a dedicated selling space and a workroom.

And then the back of house, and for most of the projects that I've worked on, the back-of-house space is usually 15 to 17 percent of the total square footage. I think in yours it's somewhere between 10 and 11. Staff works very efficiently. They didn't ask for much. And I know that they're going to be able to run this library with just exactly the right kind of space.

The laptop vending kiosk, why don't we have desktop technology in this library? Simultaneous to the planning process for this project, I worked on three libraries that were just opening. Manhattan Beach put computers in their teen area And the teens came in and pushed them out of the way to make room for their laptops. Malibu had computers in the children's area, never touched, never opened.

And Santa Clarita bought 48 bay laptops and they were used constantly. The benefit to that is that you're not paying for large pieces of fixed-in-place furniture to house a desktop computer that may be outdated by the time you open or there's a newer version. I think the flexibility of the laptops makes you more nimble in adjusting to technology change, but also many people just feel more comfortable using their own computer. Libraries that I work with now that still have them in place spend a lot of effort cleaning, updating Upgrading security on public computers, accommodating printing and scanning. So this was a decision that was made over a period of time and I think you'll be comfortable with it when it opens. Let's go to the next one.

So this just kind of shows you a page of what the program detail looked like. How many table seats where? That's the square footage group studies meeting room Since this program was completed, if you look at the first column adult reading we actually have 24 seats there now because we had a little extra room. And in the marketplace, we actually have 20 seats now because it's just worked out that particular area was a little bit bigger. So this kind of just illustrates the building program is fluid until I just hit my keyboard, sorry. So I think this slide and if you go to the next one as well, this kind of shows you the level of detail that went into the space needs in the building program but the fact that it could be changed during the process.

And again, if you look at this one we put a high priority on children's books. We know the circulation is high media At that time, we programmed for about 17,000 items of audio CDs and DVDs. They aren't really stocked anymore so that's space that we're going to get back for something else. So the collection, the shelving is flexible. The kind of shelf can be used either as a flat shelf or slanted shelf. It can be used as a display shelf in most of the spaces, the teen area The marketplace, the children's picture book.

The shelving is on casters so it can be pushed out of the way in the marketplace that friends can move their shelving and if they decide they want to have a mega book sale in the community room, their whole inventory can be moved in there with tables just like they've been doing on their porch sale for many, many years. So let's go to the last slide. That's the schematic. So this slide shows you how the pieces ended up. Adult services with the north light, a children's room with a little patio on the side, multipurpose room at the front engaging and activating the building with High Street, two entrances. The entrance on High Street has the marketplace.

It also has reserves and self-check so that could kind of be a grab and go You have four books on reserve. You can come in, you can check them out and be gone. Friends book sale area. The toilet rooms are associated with multipurpose room at the front of the building. And this configuration was designed so that the multipurpose room and the restrooms and the marketplace could be open when the rest of the library is closed. So there would actually be some kind of a screen or drop down that would close off the rest of the library, which gives you even more flexibility with uses for the multipurpose room. So this was probably fourth, fifth or sixth moving around of the pieces and this is basically what you will see as your building is finished.

So these were some of the guiding principles in the planning. And I think in 2027, we'll see the proof in the pudding. For flexibility, we have a lot of modular items, furniture. We have mobile pieces, mobile shelving. We have the ability to separate off the multipurpose room after hours operation for multi-purpose spaces. We have spaces for children, teens programs events All of these can respond to things we heard from the community. Book clubs, scouts, the multi-purpose room can be used for children's overflow story time, crafts projects, it can be used for a high school study hall in the summer when school is not in session. It can be used for the summer reading program. It can be used for cultural events, crafts. I don't know if any of you are familiar with your library's craft program but 250 people came to get together to paint rocks.

And they build things in architecture and that's a community building program, all of these hands-on things for technology. What we have bought so far and what we're planning is what I call buying technology at the last responsible moment Because if we had bought the technology or ordered it two years ago, it would be outdated at this point. Whatever we do with laptops and self-checks, it may not be on the market yet.

But the last responsible moment means we have the budget held but we haven't ordered that yet. For future proofing, we've built in a lot of flexibility, a lot of infrastructure. We have two entrances In the process of the schematic, we also asked the question, what if this library isn't big enough? Where would we add on? And one of the answers was that we would add on on their children's side. So if you look at the way it's sited, that's where the growth could be. We might add on on the adult side so there's growth back there. The front is flush against High Street. So I'm not saying this is going to happen. I'm just saying to future proof the project We had to look at not solving today's problems, but what if problems for tomorrow. So it's going to be popular.

I just want to close with this. Almost every project I've worked on in the last 30 years use has not only tripled quadruple. If you look at the data for a library and then its new library circulation is up 400%. Program attendance is up 250, 300 percent. The carpets will wear out because it'll be so popular. What I want to say finally about special spaces is that I showed you a lot of spreadsheets and a lot of numbers and square footages per capitas.

But the goal right now is to make this a really special space. And this is the time right now when furniture's being bought Comfortable armchairs, decorations, cultural monuments. This is where we're going to sort of sprinkle the fairy dust on the project and make it magic. I think everything we plan to do will be able to do but I think you really want to push it over the edge in terms of the magic it delivers.

So I'm very happy to have been part of this. I'm sorry I went on so long I can't help myself. So let's... Are there any questions?

1:21 – 1:277 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:21:42

Thank you, are there any questions? You looked at me like that. Yes or no?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed1:21:49

Okay go ahead Tom. Thank you Ms. Demers this is just fantastic. It was fantastic to see and especially in getting some of the background many of us on the council today weren't seated when this project began Some of us in the room might not have been born when this project began, but the specifics of this particular library and build. So it's great to get some of that background. Thank you for being here and sharing. I particularly appreciate, and I think it's a goal, there is a question mark at the end of this paragraph, I promise.

But the flexibility the multi-purpose the technology the future proofing and this and the spout the special spaces are all Goals that are still consistent consistent with a meeting that we had at the library board Recently one of the questions I thought you might be able to weigh in on is I thought I heard you say That this the staff levels and the staff space is appropriate To run this size library, and that was one of the discussions. We've been having lately and Is that from your design and all the work you put in, do you think that the current staff levels are

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 15Proposed1:22:58

appropriate? I can't thoroughly answer that question. But you're in a little bit of a different situation. If you were a branch library, Little to no administrative space because there would be a central library with a central administration. So if you looked at, for example, LA County and LA City they have very little administrative staff on site but you're not a branch but you're also not your operator so there are people who are doing management jobs aside from your library manager And I understand that's a contract that's now out. And I don't know if things will change or not, you know, if you have the same or different operator.

We did a lot of consulting with your current operator. You know, truth is in the library business there's a lot more that's automated now. We used to have catalogers on staff and we don't do that anymore. Used to do all sorts of processing What is important though, is that there's quality workspace and storage. And that's really what's lacking now. The current library has not an adequate back of house, no storage things have just gotten crowded. They've gotten very crowded. And I know some of the things we planned in this library for example all of the furniture for the multipurpose room will be on casters Lightweight chairs stacked. Right now, everything is too heavy. It's too much work. We wanted to make all of that program set up. Program setup is a big deal and if you know how important programming is to your staff we have to make that easy for them.

The streamlining of the desk now which will be one person desk I know that it's going to have a lot of responsibility But I think we've positioned it well with good sight lines. And gosh, I would never speak out and say that there's too much staff. I think your staff does a really darn good job for what they are. And I think part of it is their leadership which is really excellent. I am very fond of all of your librarians.

Very good people.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed1:25:50

Terrific. And I think we all agree as well, but I just wanted to confirm that the build, the design, the consideration was around a staff level that is consistent with the current building. So we're getting more staff... We're getting more space and more ability to have programs and people designed to be roughly the same staff level. Is that right? I'm sorry.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 15Proposed1:26:26

Um, I think... I think that they will rise to the occasion. There's a lot of energy there and I think that... I don't think you want to roll everything out on day one. You know, you've got this great multipurpose room and everybody is going to want to use it. I'm just speaking off the record here. I think it's the same with introducing bells and whistles. Sometimes you need to get in and test the waters, and then roll things out.

And I think maybe there will be some issues. I think it's up to your operator to say if this is enough staff to deliver the programs that you want.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed1:27:11

We're excited to see what all we can roll out. I think that's a community-wide sentiment. Since we last did any sort of public outreach, I believe that was...I could be wrong but in the note here on page 13 it looks like it was 2002 or so. In the last four and half or five years what sort of technology changes have you seen get implemented into libraries based on...you had mentioned future proofing I love the comment by technology at the last responsible, not last possible, last responsible moment. What sort of technology changes might we not have considered in this build out if any? Because we haven't talked about it in the last five years.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 15Proposed1:27:55

I'm sorry did you say 2002 because I think it was 2019

1:28 – 1:3514 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed1:28:02

I had 2022, I might not have enunciated well. My apologies but 2019-2022 we'll just look past the back last four or five years. Are there any technologies that we should be leaning into? We might not have planned for because these things take time to build.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 15Proposed1:28:22

I think some of it can be dropped in and I'm thinking of a green screen For the Innovation Center, we've got that and how that's used. I know for one thing anything you put in there, there will be a teenager that knows how to use it. Teach everyone else how to use it. And I just finished working on the new Riverside main library and they did put in a small recording booth. I haven't checked back with them how much use is getting But I think the technology that we're focusing on is something about creativity, creating knowledge not just using knowledge and sorting through knowledge but actually creating it.

And then this Innovation Center Makerspace, I believe it's on your docket to add it but things like sewing classes, sewing machines I don't know about welding and soldering and building in robotics. And this is all... I know when I spoke with the teens, there's a will there and that's really who will get this moving for you. I don't think there's anything in the building that's missing that would hinder that. I think we really loaded it with infrastructure. So

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:29:54

We're going to put a welding lab in there. I'm all about that. Well, no, I don't think

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 15Proposed1:29:58

we should but we could

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:29:59

put solder in it. No, I think we should. You had a good idea and I'm gonna stick with that. Okay,

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed1:30:03

we're starting over and adding... No.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed1:30:11

Ms. Demers, it does bring up a good point. At the last library board meeting there was some discussion about sewing machines and there was some enthusiasm around sewing machines and classes. And then there was a counterpoint that was made that this is a library space and they make noise and they are hard to store. Have you seen successful sewing machine programs in other libraries? Might you be able to give us a tip on how we could do that most properly?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 15Proposed1:30:41

Yeah, there's one in West Hollywood and we do it once a week for a month. And it's in the multipurpose room but the sewing machines are put away. So it's in the multipurpose room and it's from 10 to 12 and about 14 people came. And they've now requested funding to do it again. And there is other things that happen like Cooking demonstrations or gardening. There's the man who runs all the big urban gardening programs, he comes and does demonstrations. And this is all, this gets people into your library because these are... I had one of making truffles for Valentine's Day. I missed that one. Wish I had been there! But the sewing machines wouldn't be out on a regular basis. It's not like you would come in and sew. You would go to the workshop and learn how

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed1:31:36

And are those libraries that are doing those sorts of things, are they storing things? I'm using sewing machines as an example. Not necessarily the only program we could do. But does the library store those and own those? Are there programs that we can reach out to operators that will provide those as needed over the course of a month? What sort of program is there?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 15Proposed1:31:59

In some cases, the library owns some and does store them. It's gotten kind of weirder and weirder. There's a number of libraries now also that have a tool, a tool lending program. So if you need a miter or a router, you can borrow it from the library and then there are some that lend puzzles in games. So these are what are called libraries of things. And again this is something you could roll out slowly but I know you have something similar to this You have curriculum backpacks, which are everything you need to do an activity. And parents or teachers can come in and check those out.

Depending on your cooperative agreements... I know for example in LA County they have a makerspace where they store things. And if you wanted to do mega blocks or Lego activity, they have enough pooled that they can bring them to your location. So...

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed1:33:06

That's great. I've seen that, too, where LEGOs and puzzles bring generations together over timelines. It's really cool to see a community, multi-generational community get together and build something in seemingly no time. It's fun to watch. And it's good to know those resources are there. I have a question. It may not be for you. It may be for Mr. Laurentowski.

I absolutely love the idea that Ms. Demers brought up that we shrunk the library And yet hopefully someday, at least hopefully for me, we'll be able to expand the library. But I'm unfamiliar with any plans in our current construction to easily expand our library. Is that currently

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 14Proposed1:33:47

in our plans? We don't have plans like expansion plans but we, as Linda mentioned you know we did look at how we could do that in the future. She mentioned the adult section and right now it's essentially all glass. That could push out to the north and expand out the library that way We don't know what's going to happen with the corner building and that facility on that side. Also, the children's area or the multipurpose room, especially that multipurpose room would be easy to go to the west and then the children's area to the north as well because it's primarily glazing.

As we had these discussions with our architect, we looked specifically at that and how that could be accomplished in the future. But we never put plans pen to paper so... I'm

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed1:34:38

excited about that. I know we have some development, well, future fees that will fund some of that. That's all the questions I have this time. Thank you Mr. Emerson. We

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:34:47

need to expand our bank account a lot before we expand anything in this building It's still possible, but you know. Let's be realistic. Question. You mentioned the laptops and when I first saw that, I thought that would be a big pain, but you said that that's how that works in a lot of libraries out there? Yeah. Okay. So you mentioned that fixed desktops have to deal with updates and software, but laptops also do.

I know some people would bring those in, but I'm thinking about like the older generation. I'm just watching my dad walk in there and pick out a laptop from the kiosk and then drop it on the floor and struggle with the cords and all that. So do you find that to be an issue with the older generations?

1:35 – 1:4211 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 15Proposed1:35:39

You mean like older than me?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:35:42

I mean, maybe just people like myself too. Maybe it's not just older people. But I think if I was going to go in there and pull up a presentation to show something or Google Earth something and just look at some information that I was trying to study or something like that, I'd have to go and check something out, find a table, plug something in. And then you deal with everyone handling everything on the keyboards messing things up as opposed to being able to go to a desk and just turn something on and print something. And look, so I'm just wondering how those things

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 15Proposed1:36:16

work? I haven't encountered that as a problem. And we actually aren't really going to go with the kiosk at this point. I believe the plan is that there would be a charging station behind the customer service desk and they would be handed one ready to go on to your network and set up so that a lot of the basics, and then would have whatever productivity programs loaded.

And we'd have the security protection. I'm not sure I can address that question and I don't know what your staff's expertise is on that but If there's a problem with the laptop, there probably would be the same problem with the desktop. Somebody sitting down and needing some help. And that may be just off the top of my head but that maybe you know, maybe if you want to relationship with Moorpark College, you could get a couple of interns to come over in the afternoon to help people out with technology. I know the staff can do it but can't hurt

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:37:35

Yeah, the reason I say that is because at our company I bought a whole bunch of laptops to pass around and wherever you want to go do some work. You can pull the thing out, go through our logs and everything. And then it turned into me replacing screens and dealing with stuff being spilled on the keyboards and then power cord batteries always failing so instead I started buying these little cheap module or PCs and then screens and then that way they've been just lasting forever.

That was just the issue. Things get beat up when they're public use and laptops aren't necessarily the most durable things ever. That was it, but I guess it's something in the future we can adapt to if we needed to.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 15Proposed1:38:17

Well... It's not something that we can rule out either you know? If we need to add some PCs we can do that and I don't think we've discussed this in depth but there should be one somewhere for disabled access that maybe has the Optelec program on it and some dragon naturally speaking. And that may be in the innovations. Again, that's something that we can add on.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:38:46

Okay. Any other questions? No? You guys give me these ambiguous looks sometimes. Say something.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed1:38:58

I just have a comment, I do love the flexibility and I appreciate the thoughtfulness that went into this. I appreciate you bringing it back to us too because I was not on the council when a lot of this happened and seeing it, I've certainly questioned some of these things along the way Jeremy's been great at trying to explain some of it, but to see it in this presentation was helpful for me.

Particularly some of the rolling movable stacks and that flexibility. I appreciate that and I'm excited to see that last minute order as to the technology that we move forward with. So thank you.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:39:42

Yeah. Do any speakers?

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by role1:39:46

No, Mr. Mayor, I don't have any speaker cards on this item.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:39:49

Okay. This is a receiving file. Do you have anything else to talk about?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed1:39:53

I just wanted to get to the comment in order to echo Councilman Barrett's sentiment. I'm just delighted to get this background. It really helps. I am inspired to think of flexibility, multipurpose technology, future-proofing and special spaces that wraps up so much of what we've been talking about and that we don't want to miss out on this new library. And Ms. Demers, I appreciate the way you phrased that. If you've been talking about that for 10 years on this project and it's new to me then lucky me, I'm onboard now too.

I do think that it's incredibly relevant that we haven't talked to the community about these interior needs either since 2019 or 2022 depending how you measure it You weren't mayor. Three of us weren't on council the last time that happened. Work from home wasn't nearly as prevalent as it is now, making public spaces important for people to be able to get together if they want to do business together. Who knows where AI is taking us?

audio studios or booths as opposed to a studio where you have two people that can be interacting has developed and changed since the days of the phone booth, I suppose. But some of those spaces and some of those dollars...I think my biggest concern as we move forward on this is that the dollars were investing into this space The fairy dust as it was referred to, I completely agree. I think that's how you bring the interior of a building to life for our community.

I just want to make sure that fairy dust is... Let me go back and just keep quoting Ms. Demers. It's absolutely perfect. The last responsible moment so we don't get, you know, a radio booth in there instead of a podcast studio which, you know, spent $10,000 instead of 12 to get yesterday's technology. So I'm delighted by the report, delighted by the insights and deeply appreciative for the time.

1:42 – 1:4513 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed1:42:04

I just want to say that I was very shocked at how many respondents we actually had. And I was extremely happy with the amount of over 750 people actually taking the time to fill out this survey, which to me just shows even more how much people want this new library and how engaged they are with what it's going to be in the future. So thank you for putting all this together.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:42:34

Okay all right we'll go ahead and receive in file. Thank You Ms. Demers.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 15Proposed1:42:39

Pleasure.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:42:43

Next is presentation action discussion item 10 C consider reduction of scope of work for sewer line repair and parking lot improvements at 18 High Street Mr. Lawrentowski

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 14Proposed1:42:55

Thank you, Mayor. We're recommending that we pull this item from the agenda calendar and we will discuss next steps at a future time. Thank you. Do you

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed1:43:08

vote to? No. It's already off the agenda. You don't have to vote to postpone

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 11Proposed1:43:15

it? I think it's likely going to come back as a brand new item. Staff is just going to have to pull it.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed1:43:20

Perfect. Well,

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 12Proposed1:43:21

then we're done with all the items. We go home now right? That's right. You can go home. We're going to discuss the rest of this giant meeting

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:43:28

Okay Oh, yeah. We'll do the ordinance last. OK.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed1:43:35

Before we get started can I just request since I think it might be a longer session just like a five minute break

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 12Proposed1:43:43

for...

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed1:43:44

Sure. OK. Go ahead and take a five minute bathroom break before you get into this next four hour stretch. All right. All right, we are back. Next item is Item 9, Public Hearings. 9A is the Downtown Specific Plan. Consider resolution approving General Plan Amendment Number CD-GPA-2026-0003 Segment 1, a specific plan number CD-SPA-2026-0003 in addendum to the previously certified General Plan 2050 Environmental Impact Report Pursuant to sections one five one six four of the California Environmental Quality Act guidelines consider ordinance approving zoning map amendment number CD dash ZCA Dash two zero two six dash zero zero zero seven Consider resolution approving segment 2 of specific plan amendment number CD dash SPA dash two zero two six and Do we have any announcements before we begin?

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1:45 – 1:502 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 11Proposed1:45:58

Yes, I have one. I apologize it might be a little bit lengthy but there are some procedural steps for this item. So this agenda item is for the City Council to consider and take action on the downtown specific plan. Please note that this item has been split into three separate segments. This is done in order to ensure that council members do not participate in discussions that are reasonably foreseeable to materially affect their own economic interests or properties near their economic interests.

City staff has identified a component of the discussion that requires recusal by two council members and we have consulted with those council members. However, one of the two Mayor Pro Tem Castro is absent tonight. Nevertheless, we have broken that particular component into recusal segments and will proceed through the segmentation process in compliance with the segmentation rules provided by the FPPC.

This process allows for the individual component of a larger decision that affects Councilmember economic interests to be segmented and dealt with separately before consideration of the remaining aspects of the decision. The three recusal segments are detailed in the staff report due to Mayor Pro Tem Castro's absence, the council can consider two out of the three segments together which is segments 2 and segment 3 when we get to those.

I'm going to briefly go over what each segment consists of, and these are also in the staff report. And you'll be able to reference them backwards and we'll help you with that. So recusal segment one. Segment one involves portions of the specific plan that affect the financial interests of Councilmember Barrett which is property owned by the owner of his employer Insurance Brokers West located at 233 High Street.

Segment one includes consideration and adoption of the addenda to the EIR, the general plan amendment and the zoning map amendment. Segment one also includes the following portions of the downtown specific plan chapters 1 through 3 sections 4.1 5.1 .7 5.2 6.1 6.2 6.4.1, 6.5.1 high street and active ground floor uses, 6 .5.2 high street, 6 point 5.3, 6 point 6.1 ,6 point 6.2, 6 point 6.3 6 point 6 point 4.1 high street, 6 point 6 point four point two through eight, six point six point five, six point six point six, six point six point seven and 6.7 Council member Barrett will be recusing from this segment while the other council members participate in the council's consideration of segment one of the specific plan There's two more segments Recusal segment 2 includes the following Portions of the specific plan you could follow along in the document, but it's sections 4.2 4.5 4.6 4.7 5.1 point eight five point one point nine five point one point eleven five point one point twelve six point four point four six point four point five six point five Point 1 dash r1 r2 6.6.4.1-R1 and 6.64.1–R2.

No present council members are required to recuse themselves from participating in the Council's consideration of Segment 2 of the plan. And segment three contains the remainder of the specific plan not included in segments one and two. They are listed in the staff report, I won't go ahead and repeat them now since it is just the remainder. And no present council members are required to recuse themselves from participating in the Council's consideration of segment three.

Once the applicable recusal segments have been addressed and decided by the City Council, Council Member Barrett can be brought back into chambers. He'll rejoin the City Council to consider the later segments in which he does not have a conflict. And if you have any questions through this process we're here to help you so please feel free to ask staff or myself and we'll help you through the process.

And then with all of that in mind we will ask Council Member Barrett to make his recusal statement and then we'll return to the item for the staff report.

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UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed1:50:18

That's how I solved Farid Mine. Okay Mr. Mayor, I'm recusing myself from segment one of this agenda item because This item could financially affect the owner of my employer Insurance Brokers West and the owners property located at two three three East High Street state law presumes that those changes could Affect My financial interests and require me to recuse myself from this segment

1:51 – 1:561 turns

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role1:51:02

All right. Good evening, council members. Thank you to those who had to do those recitals before me. I'm pleased to join you this evening for the presentation of our downtown specific plan and before I begin, I'd like to introduce our project team, our deputy director Mr. Gene Burse Dr. Mark DiCecco, Mr. Jonathan Nettler and Mr. Alan Loomis both of whom are with PlaceWorks. I'd also like to thank our partners at the Southern California Association of Governments who made this project possible by a quarter million dollar grant through the REAP 2.0 program.

The request this evening, as has been read out ad nauseum is to basically consider adoption of the downtown specific plan and related general plan and zoning map amendments with an addendum to the general plan 2050 program environmental impact report. As beaten to death basically, the deliberation in action will occur in three segments that have been described in your staff report verbally.

The study area for this project is the downtown as it exists in the 1998 specific plan boundary and reiterated by the general plan 2050 with a few changes. There are three properties that have been proposed to be removed from the downtown specific plan, all related to general inconsistencies with the proposed guidelines In the case of parcel A, it is on the other side or parcels A are on the other side of an alley with their backs essentially to Moorpark Avenue.

Property B is an existing multifamily residential development which also kind of backs up to the intersection of Spring and Princeton. And then parcel C is an existing industrial property which doesn't functionally serve as a gateway to the downtown at this time. So as a foundational question, we look at why now. Downtown is experiencing recent and new development. This goes back to the development of M on High which has only recently vacated High Street Depot and other planned and approved projects downtown. We're in a bit of a transformation and renaissance.

As part of that, it's time to kind of reevaluate what the vision is and ensure that that's working for these projects that are coming forward. The other reason that justifies this project is the general plan 2050 spent a lot of time looking at downtown and listening to our community about its aspirations. And that resulted in significant numbers of goals and policies that address strategic growth and important assets of community character in the downtown area. So this effort essentially will allow us to true those up into this implementation document.

And then finally, it's the context of the existing specific plan which was originally adopted in 1998 has been amended six times and there had not been a comprehensive update since that time. So you know essentially that foundation that was constructed in 1998 is less reliable now I'm needling in a bit further on the 2050 General Plan. We have a number of land use policies that relate to downtown and are part of what's being implemented in this specific plan, so a few of those are shared here just as an example.

The other interesting reason to consider is that the planning technology and best practices have evolved. So, what you'll see on the left-hand side of the screen is the 1998 Downtown Specific Plan. It is very text heavy. The images in that plan have been copied over to the extent they're legible in most cases. And the other issue was that there are a lot of should's or may's in that document so it is subjective It's challenging for both staff and the development community to have an understanding of when those standards are enforceable.

By contrast, the example on the right is a page from our proposed specific plan. You'll see very cleanly and clearly broken out are the different development standards that are clear in their application. We use visual graphics to help illustrate how those concepts are applied to new development and basically make those compliance more accessible to both staff and the development community.

This effort as I've kind of been playing with so far is all about alignment. Alignment with the general plan, alignment with the outreach that resulted in that and also alignment with our 2025 Economic Development Strategic Plan. So as with all of our long-range planning efforts as of late the downtown featured prominently in that And this provides an opportunity to ground our implementation and some of the specific items that came out of that. That relates to creating a diversified shopping and entertainment district, attracting high quality jobs and supporting the manufacturing sectors that exist on Princeton and in the vicinity Leverage businesses for economic growth, promoting Moorpark's very unique downtown character regionally and also implementing that community outreach that was provided for the Economic Development Strategic Plan.

And we'll get further into some of these recommendations in subsequent slides. At this time I'd like to invite Dr. DiCecco up to share with us a little evaluation of what is the specific plan?

1:56 – 2:203 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed1:56:18

So members, thank you very much for allowing us the time to do this. They don't trust me very much so I'm only going to talk about one slide here. First of all, what is a specific plan? If you look at the slide it's all things on the left and it's none of the things on the right but to be clear What we're looking at here is what a specific plan does, it communicates the city's intent and the city's vision for what we want to do in the future. And especially within the downtown.

It also guides development toward that vision. It provides, from an outside perspective... I look at this as somebody who's worked on the other side of the fence here where we're actually implementing these things. But it provides predictability to the development community which leads further into investment which in essence becomes... The specific plan becomes an economic development tool Another thing that we'll talk about a little bit more in the future, but the specific plan also provides control. What we're currently facing as cities in most of the jurisdictions is state mandates encourage ministerial approvals that we don't...we as cities don't feel like we have control over A city retains its control by having objective design standards, such as what we'd find in a specific plan.

So what that does is that actually gives us more control over what our destiny is, especially for a place as dear to our hearts as downtown. But although it's a controlling document, a good specific plan also provides flexibility for the city and the development community to achieve that original vision that we had. As Doug mentioned, this specific plan is a continuation of all the work we did on the general plan update and the economic development strategic plan.

The vision of our community identified for downtown in that general plan update which we spent a lot of time during the general plan update talking with the community whether it was land use or any other provision within the general plan there was always a link to downtown There was always community input on how does this affect what's going on downtown in the specific plan. So and then the economic goals that the city and the council identified in the Economic Development Strategic Plan are also reflected in this document too.

And from the rest of our team, this document is provided to you by this same team and by the same community that developed those other two documents. Just from my perspective, I looked at this document as something how can we implement it? How can, from a design perspective, from the development community. How is that affected and how can we work with this?

We've designed projects within specific plans, High Street in particular, as well as other ones, as well as we've actually advised the development community on how to actually work with specific plans. And one final comment before I hand it off to the rest of the team. There's an argument currently that this specific plan needs to identify more specific uses on specific sites within this specific plan, and it's been our experience from the development side of things The more granular and site-specific a specific plan becomes, the harder it is to achieve our goals for the...our vision for what downtown should be. The harder it is for a city to administer and to staff...to administer it from a staff level, and the less incentive there is from the development community to invest in our town.

I'll hand it over to Alan and the rest of you.

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GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role2:00:26

Thank you. I did want to also spend a few slides just kind of outlaying in more detail the public outreach that has culminated in this effort. The outreach, in truth, began with our general plan update which I think we've touched on previously which began in 2020 and despite the period of COVID that we were working in at that time from 2020 to 2023, we had a really sustained period of outreach associated with the general plan. Again, you heard a lot about downtown as part of that Some of the statistics associated with that outreach is here, the number of submissions, number of pop-ups and touch points as we worked through that very transformational project.

And then moving specifically to this effort, we did have three public workshops, a total of 63 attendees. One of those was supplemented by a virtual draft plan review, 71 survey submissions along with 253 written comments, 178 preference responses And then perhaps most importantly, the April 1st through April 15th review of our draft downtown specific plan which had 260 individual comments within that document. So the PDF of the document was posted in its entirety and you could actually place comments surgically within that at the points where people wanted to have something flagged. So not only did we receive 260 comments by 23 users, we took each of those comments evaluated it against the call and the outreach or the input that we received and provided a staff recommendation to each.

That's part of attachment seven to your packet so for us community outreach was a foundational part of this effort as long in addition to the transparency of having people understand not only that their comment was received but how we intended to implement or respond to it Following that, we had two meetings with our Community and Economic Development Committee.

That actually further built out that attachment with some additional public comments you'll see flagged CEDC. And then on the right-hand side of this you'll see how some of those comments were addressed, how we addressed the groupings and the nature of some of our responses. So we did have some thoughtfulness that we had to apply at certain points of this outreach program. Again, this outreach brought together the general plan and the economic development strategic plan. We started by soliciting open feedback on the valued existing features downtown, the desire or appetite for change and visions for new ideas downtown.

We made people aware of these activities by noticing every address within the project area, including information on how to give feedback and the opportunities that were coming up. We used creative strategies to kind of reach beyond traditional participants so for us it was kind of important to look at a variety of ages and people who you don't usually get coming to these outreach and technical planning meetings So Dr. DiCicco and I set up at Country Days one year, and you can see the result of that on the right-hand side with a number of Post-it notes on the board with a lot of different ideas that were organic in terms of what people wanted to see downtown.

There was also a Halloween event at the Boys & Girls Club. The Halloween event wasn't well attended which we realize so rather than kind of put a cork in the outreach from that program, we pivoted to an online survey And we basically hosted that same material that we were hoping to get feedback on, onto the internet. I was kind of a dated way of saying that. And then broadcast that out and despite hitting that shortfall at the in-person effort, we actually got 71 additional participants in that round of engagement.

And then one of the last efforts we did was when the draft plan was released, we had an online presentation where we walked people through the draft in an effort to help them understand it so that they could provide public comments. While four people only attended that online live session, we had over 260 comments that were received on that draft and interestingly, the video itself was viewed 93 times.

So, you know the engagement kind of pops up in ways that you might not expect but what this slide is really intended to do is describe how intentional we were and thoughtful for what we were as we moved through each of those steps pivoting and adapting where necessary to ensure that we were doing the city's work and the community's work. And with that I'll turn it over to Mr. Loomis to walk us through our plan.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed2:05:06

Thank you, Mr. Mayor and members of the Council. Pleasure to be here at this important milestone this evening. So I'm going to kind of lead you through the planning document itself which will be should you adopt it ultimately this kind of primary tool by which you'll sort of review development in the downtown so it'll be the day-to-day working document on Community Development's shelf and at the front counter So the specific plan itself is, the content is organized as you can see into six individual chapters.

And you'll see later on that chapter 6, the development code piece of it is going to be the real workhorse for reviewing new development and applications within downtown. We can go to the next slide. The introduction is relatively short. It establishes where in the world this specific plan is, where downtown Moorpark is, the boundaries of it, what is a specific plan and the policy context of thinking about why are we doing a specific plan here? So that really covers all the material that Directors Bondello kind of covered at the beginning of his presentation. Next slide.

Chapter 2 is called Downtown Today. We might asterisk to say that this was last worked on in June of this year, so we could say this is downtown as of June 2026, recognizing that there's been some businesses moved around and changed or are about to open. This is intended to be not a comprehensive report or kind of existing conditions analysis, but really a kind of snapshot of the most important components of that analysis that informed the work that developed the plan. So our analysis that we did was more extensive than what's included in the document. And for planner geeks like us, it's very exciting to look at all these maps and diagrams that we did documenting average lot size and things of that nature. But for somebody who needs to use the plan, it's not very relevant.

But what we tried to highlight here were the really relevant components that inform what the plan was. So one of them really speaks to like the character areas. The downtown is not one homogenous place, it's broken up into a series of sub-districts or sub-neighborhoods. It's important to recognize that there are some cultural resources that we need to think about There's some recent development that has occurred in the downtown. That precludes certain sites from being kind of in consideration over the next, you know, say 20-odd years for being development sites but then there are others that are relatively underutilized and that's where you can start to think in the next 20 to 25 years. That's where the focus of development in downtown is going We have a snapshot of what we know about parking in the downtown.

The most recent data we have on that is from 2019. That's kind of described in the plan. That was the last time there was a downtown parking survey, so we're working with somewhat outdated information. We'll come back to parking momentarily. And then a discussion about mobility, because one of the primary reasons you have it downtown and why it's still vibrant and why you still want to think about it is because the Metrolink service that you support in your downtown and the related bus service that focuses in on the trains.

So next slide. Chapter three, crafting the vision of the plan. It describes all the public outreach work that we've done to date. Again it was just described earlier so this is a series of these infographics that sort of pull out the kind of key ideas that were communicated in the public outreach. Next slide. Chapter four lays out the vision, and I think it's important when we think about the vision as described in this specific plan that it is broad. It is illustrative meaning it is a kind of not exactly a cartoon but it is the sketch of the vision that you would like to see. It is intended to be descriptive in very broad terms of what you're trying to accomplish in your downtown. Describe some catalytic ideas that could help implement that vision but are not intended to describe very specific kinds of projects that would sort of force the city into particular actions.

So it's really intended to be a roadmap for how the city as a landowner and as the investor in public works could consider how you would invest your money or your land But also as a roadmap for private investment to understand how could their individual property fit into the larger vision of the downtown without, as Dr. DiCicco said, without necessarily tying either the city as a landowner or individual property owners down to any specific kind of use on a particular property to allow some flexibility as the market and the economy evolves over the next 20 odd years.

Next slide please. So we described the vision in six different areas, five of which are geographically specific and three deal with High Street in particular so we started with East High Street. Just really beginning at Spring Road and kind of moving towards the center part of High Street. When we looked at existing properties that were fairly large on High Street and had pretty significant redevelopment potential, they tend to cluster on the east side of High Street. There's a few that also kind of are on the north or Kind of touch are on Charles Street, the backs of which touch onto properties on High Street. As it turns out, the city owns many of those properties. So how this east end of High Street will ultimately evolve will depend on how the city chooses to develop or dispose of those properties.

So what is described here is a range of those possibilities. The other, another kind of key component here is there's an existing parking lot. It's currently gravel paved so that we suggest should be improved with asphalt but maybe eventually that could be developed into some other use. Another key idea we kind of populate here is that there should be a gateway element on the east side of downtown So as vehicles exit off the freeway come zooming down Princeton Avenue, there should be something after you pass Spring Road that sort of says slow down. You've arrived in downtown and so we've suggested some sort of arch with some sort of curb extensions or traffic calming devices would be a great way of saying you've arrived in the downtown and it's time to slow down and pay attention.

The West Gateway brings us over to Moorpark Avenue And this really kind of thinks about how do we sort of catalyze the new library? How do we use the new library facility as kind of an anchor for a variety of different kinds of developments here. Possibilities for private development on High Street are relatively limited because it's already built out. The high street theater is really your kind of core anchor. The key piece you can develop on West High Street is what's known as the Chamber of Commerce site at the corner of Moorpark and High.

The idea of a beer garden or some sort of outdoor restaurant actually came from one of the outreach meetings we actually, at the Halloween event we hosted approximately a year ago. A family of young boys came in with kind of mock-up of their things like newspaper and magazine clippings and they had suggested that there could be some sort of fun outdoor dining experience I think they'd suggest it was like an air stream Mom had suggested an outdoor tea garden. We thought all of those ideas were great and so we thought maybe there could be something wonderful that could happen there at the Chamber of Commerce site, you know, maybe a place to go for your dinner before you go to the High Street Theater for an event.

Across Moorpark Avenue where the post office is, the city owns that parking lot. So there's some possibilities about what could happen there. We think some sort of vertical gateway element at this intersection and probably on the land that the city owns would be helpful from a wayfinding kind of producing some sort of landmark via something you could see from the east end of High Street as we're going through that gateway I described earlier but also something you can see at the south end of Moorpark Avenue in Los Angeles. So there is a marker that downtown is here We're not suggesting an arch over Moorpark Avenue here because that's a Caltrans facility, so it gets very complicated how you could build over a Caltrans facility.

And then there's the old packing hall just south of the railroad tracks on Moorpark Avenue. Lots of possibilities about what could happen with that building but key idea is that it can be redeveloped. Next slide. Not to be overlooked, Moorpark Avenue as it extends south from the railroad tracks to Los Angeles Avenue is a kind of component of the specific plan.

The east side of Moorpark Avenue is largely built out with smaller scale structures mostly single family home type developments some of which are being converted into businesses Whereas the west side is where there's some larger parcels, relatively speaking, that could accommodate new development. And in fact, there is a new development that's been proposed and entitled on that side of the street.

So we really think this area is about enhancing existing businesses, maybe doing some sort of pocket coffee shop sort of kiosks out in some of the parking lots if some of those businesses can be one way of addressing it. We think some form of street trees should be built on Moorpark Avenue. If we want to encourage pedestrian activity that we see in High Street to come down Moorpark Avenue, providing some degree of shade and pedestrian comfort is really critical. How that gets accomplished gets tricky again given it's a Caltrans maintained roadway.

Limited opportunities within the right-of-way but we think it's an important component And then another component of this area that generated a good deal of discussion and all the meetings we had was the Berkenshaw property. I think there's widespread community interest in seeing that property revitalized and the house itself be reused in some fashion, but of course that's privately held and so how that site ultimately develops is dependent on the Berkenshaw family.

Next slide. We talk about High Street as a kind of public works project. The key idea here is that the work that's been done with the streetscape on West High Street is fantastic, that should extend all the way to Spring Road. The other thing that we think ought to be entertained is some sort of lighting at the pepper trees. That's your iconic tree. It's one of the few downtowns that has that kind of tree, that lacy kind of light.

leaves. So doing some sort of lighting at night to highlight those trees and celebrate them is kind of like no pun intended, low hanging fruit in terms of what you can do to enhance the place and the character of High Street. Next slide please. As you know, north of High Street there is an existing residential neighborhood largely focused around Everett and Charles Street. And the key idea here as we've kind of heard from community members is to really try and protect that neighborhood, maintain its kind of existing scale and character.

So we were very conscious as we thought about the development standards that follow to make sure that we weren't producing anything that would encourage lot consolidation to sort of begin to assemble multiple lots and do large development. You know, again there's some city-owned parcels in here so the City does have some degree of control how that evolves. And then one of the things we did hear from residents is a concern that there's overflow parking in the neighborhood when there's a major event whether it's an event at the High Street Theater or country days on when High Street itself is closed. Ultimately probably the best way to manage that is to have a residential parking permit district in the area where residents in that neighborhood Hang a ticket or tag or whatever technology is used on their car and then they can park on the street.

If you don't have that tag, you're not allowed to park in the street or you're limited for one hour. So that does get to the next key question in the final piece of the vision which is talking about parking. Throughout the process, a concern about parking and parking resources was something I repeatedly came up And so as I mentioned, where we started from as a parking utilization survey that was done in 2019. I think everybody recognizes that survey needs to be updated at some point in the future.

As we began to dig into this what we're recommending is that survey be updated in the future, not as part of this effort. And a key reason for that is that the High Street Depot development, while it's mostly leased out from a residential perspective, is still leasing out the ground floor commercial and retail spaces. So how that's going to impact High Street is still a little bit unknown.

Your library is going to have an impact on High Street so we should wait until the new library is completed and open before you conduct a parking survey And then there's the Hitch Ranch development that is still filling out. So, there's a number of big moving pieces that once those stabilize it'll be the proper time to do a downtown parking survey and see how people are actually using the parking resources in the downtown.

This graphic identifies your existing parking resources as well as some locations where you could build new parking. One of those is just north of the new library, where you could expand into the Civic Center area if that was the city's desire. And then also talks about producing wayfinding so we know that the city while we were working on this had developed a kind of graphic design for doing static wayfinding signs. Fantastic! That's going to be rolling out in the near future. But we think after you do a parking survey, the way to manage your parking resources in the future is ultimately to be able to inform those policy decisions with data.

One way of achieving that is to start putting sensors on all your parking spaces so you know whether they're being used or not and once you do that then you're able to also include some real-time digital information out onto the streets at the key decision points for motorists to say there are 400 spaces over here if you go south of the railroad tracks for example.

Your biggest parking resource, unfortunately, is south of the railroad tracks and it's hard to find. And you have to cross the railroad tracks to get there so there are ultimately some ideas about improving that condition. Chapter 5 itemizes, we call it an acting division and it lists out a number of different kind of projects and programs that we think could be undertaken mostly by the city or related public partners to begin to sort of initiate or catalyze this particular vision that's described here. This is not necessarily intended to be an exhaustive list of all the projects you could do And if you read through them, they're pretty generic sort of descriptions.

We did not deliberately did not kind of come in and say there's a certain price tag associated with this or they should be done in a certain time how these projects individually like when unfold is going to be subject to the council's further deliberations and discussion during your annual budget processes. So this is part where the council continues to retain some degree of control and decision making over how the plan ultimately gets built out But to highlight a couple of these on the slide, some of these ideas are physical capital improvement projects your public works department would undertake like the arch over High Street as an east gateway. But then there's also programmatic ideas like potentially having a Sunday farmers market which is something you would program and manage, not necessarily have a physical impact other than the one day out of the week.

I'll note that number one on the list, and it's deliberately number one on the list because if we were to prioritize these, we think this probably does deserve to be thought of as number one is to update the Civic Center Master Plan. In the context of the new library being developed in the downtown plan, revisiting the Civic Center Master Plan is probably warranted as the first implementation step.

Now, so the next slide gets onto economic development initiatives and to that I'll turn it back over to Doug.

2:20 – 2:363 turns

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role2:20:59

Thank you Alan. So yes as promised we did take some further implementation of our Economic Development Strategic Plan and what we're recommending is really boosting the relationship and framework of downtown potential merchants association leveraging the relationships with businesses and property owners to implement strategies This meeting is being recorded.

And finally, reactivating the Downtown Merchants Association which would be a great kind of shepherding agency to help partner on these things. A very important component of this project, as with all the things we've looked at recently is permit streamlining. Just ensuring that the things that the community wants to see occur downtown are given the green light. The things that we have concerns about potentially are given the yellow or the red light so you do see that reflected in terms of permit streamlining We have looked at a lot of discretionary uses that we had before that required conditional use permits like restaurants and certain alcohol uses, even certain office uses to some extent. And now those approval levers are...have been reduced.

We've also kind of looked at more clearly stating the permitted uses in a way that doesn't have people confused about which kind of category their use falls into. Finally, the downtown specific plan that we have today as I highlighted has a lot of mays and shoulds. But what we have now is really objective development standards that would meet the current legislative test that the state would put down regarding what is enforceable and what is not in this context so we're very Happy about that level of predictability that we're getting on both sides of the counter.

And finally, some preserved oversight. So when the general plan was updated... I'm sorry, when the general plan was implemented in our zoning code, we heard loud and clear that the council would like to retain a review of mixed-use development projects so that is rolled forward in the downtown specific plan because you'd flagged that the council still has oversight over those specific projects. Also large capital projects like potential hotels And back to Mr. Loomis.

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UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed2:23:36

Thank you. So as I said, Chapter 6, the development code is the kind of real thick meat of this specific plan where the rubber meets the road if you will in terms of implementing private development and any sort of public development that would be on a parcel. This is not intended to deal with the public right-of-way or kind of public works related projects but development principally of buildings and uses on individual lots.

So from the Community Development Department's perspective and from most developers and property owners, this is the section they're going to turn to. And it's intended to be pretty self-explanatory about all the rules and regulations that are here. The vision and everything else is in chapters 1 through 5 to understand how we got these rules and how we came up with these rules.

So I'll do a kind of quick run through here of this. So first of all, we start with what we call a regulating plan. You can consider this as basically the zoning map of the downtown so every parcel has a particular color designation. So it has a particular district or zone that it is assigned to. So there should be absolutely no ambiguity about what district you need to look at. The one exception to this is what is in the draft plan as the commerce street overlay or Charles Street Commerce Overlay, that's a zone that's highlighted there and the red boundaries.

That was something that we had suggested. We've highlighted this in the text because the Planning Commission has recommended that we eliminate to remove that overlay zone. And I think that's discussed at the end of presentation and then staff support us to the logic of that. Each of those colored districts on that map you will find within the specific planning page like this.

This is intended to be kind of a one-stop guide to all the regulations that apply to a project in that particular district, in this case the High Street Mixed Use District. And so if you read through here, you're going to find what are your allowable uses? That refers you to a table. What's your overall density allowed for residential or commercial, the maximum height, the number of stories you can build, how your setbacks, what those are allowed to be and then all the design standards that are described later in this specific plan. So for both applicants and for city staff, this is really intended to be a one-page checklist. We hope that actually that's how people will use it. They'll go through and check, check, check. We've complied with this section, complied with that section.

Our project should be good, should be consistent with the specific plan. We'll note on the text, the maximum height throughout the downtown according to these standards is going to be three stories or 40 feet. That is consistent with the existing standards and what the general plan 2050. As I mentioned, this table refers...those original tables then refer to permitted uses. So every district in downtown has a range of land uses that are permitted or not permitted or conditionally permitted and so those are described into pretty simple tables The key thing to understand here is that the types of permits and the process for those sort of permits is consistent with what you have everywhere else in the city. So if we're saying a particular kind of development in the downtown or particular use requires a conditional use permit, The process an applicant would go through in the downtown for that kind of permit is the same as they would anywhere else in the city.

So none of these processes are unique to the downtown or changed from, or have a different pathway than you have elsewhere in the city. We'll say there's two kind of key components to this one in terms of land use. One is that the existing chain store regulations on High Street have been carried over from zoning code into the specific plan, so that's been just really copied verbatim And then we have developed specific standards for hotels and for live-work uses.

So, and the key thing with the hotels is that we're requiring a development agreement with City Council to be able to develop a hotel in the downtown. Again, offering some measure of kind of authority to the city council about what kinds of hotels you'll see in the downtown. Next slide please. We spent a lot of time on the design standards for the downtown.

And in this respect, Dr. DiCicco saying he only gets to speak on one slide. I could give him this whole presentation because we're very pleased to have him as part of our team as both an architect in Moorpark and architect in downtown and user of these kinds of plans in Ventura County. to be able to review our work and give us a lot of very solid advice about specific kinds of design standards that we should be thinking about or eliminating.

The core of the design standards really deal with these three topics of modulating buildings, that's how you sculpt the building and kind of get the ins-and-outs, open space required for those buildings what's expected of that, and then how buildings or frontage types are how they relate to the sidewalk. Next slide please So without going through all the details of that, I'll give you two slides as an example.

And I'm going to compare these with the existing 1998 plan. So on the right-hand side, the 1998 plan says for building form and modulation. It says it should promote the continuity of the street scene and the size of new structures should be compatible with adjacent buildings in neighborhoods. That is fraught with all sorts of ambiguity and can foster all sorts of fights at the public counter, at the planning commission etc. And lots of wasted time trying to get the right project.

So what we're offering in the draft plan is the text on the left, so we give some very precise dimensions. After you get more than 100 feet, you need to start modulating the building and here's how much you need to modulate it. So we've tried to provide some very precise dimensions that somebody can pull out with an engineering scale and say you meet that standard or you don't.

Next slide. And then another philosophy we had as we drafted out these standards was an effort to try and offer options. So in this case, again the same slide on the right from the 98 plan, those three very vague graphics on the bottom, little cartoon drawings are intended to describe how buildings should interact with a corner if they're a corner site. So in the draft plan that we're presenting, we have some standards related to corner sites. And so you can see we've got some different kinds of elements that are described with a photograph and the other key component here is that we say two of the following five elements should be met. So we're in many cases with draft standards rather than saying it's one way and only that one way we were saying There are multiple ways of meeting the standards, and it's a menu of options that individual architects and developers and property owners can choose from to create the right project for them.

But most importantly also for the city is that we're not trying to encourage any sort of cookie cutter development. We want to see diversity in the downtown. I would argue that kind of the charm one and one of the strengths of Downtown Moorpark is it's not one stop. It's not downtown Solvang. for example. It's got a bunch of things going on and that's what makes it charming and unique, so we want to kind of maintain that eclecticism.

As the director indicated this language, this kind of precision in language brings the specific plan up to modern standards as expected by the state of California for objective design standards and how you review housing development in particular. But this can apply to all kinds of developments, commercial non-housing developments as well. So with that, I'll turn it back over to the director.

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role2:31:18

Thank you. Just a very quick overview of our timeline for this project. Since inception we've been about one year and four months into this project. This document was originally preparing for a public hearing before the council on July 1st but understandably we spent some time looking at potential conflicts and ensuring that all the council members who wanted to participate could.

So you'll see also that the points of action on this graph, the most plentiful are associated with public outreach and workshops. Related to the environmental review, this is we conducted a full EIR addendum analysis as it related to the general plan 2050 program EIR. That EIR looks at the build out anticipated with the general plan 2050 as well as the associated impacts anticipated with that build out.

And then what the addendum establishes is that with the proposed downtown specific plan, there are the same or less impacts presented by the implementation of this plan. Aside from being a clean way of doing it, that does an important thing for our projects downtown. That allows for a process called tiering through the California Environmental Quality Act which basically allows for smaller projects to avoid having to do project-specific level environmental review, and instead tier up to the analysis that was already conducted for the general plan environmental impact report. So we expect that though it won't apply to smaller projects, that will save potentially time and money for developments that move forward consistent with the plan.

This is just a highlight of the general plan land use map changes that you'll see in the resolution. What we're doing is removing certain properties that had been designated as downtown specific plan and instead reverting those to general plan designations that are consistent with the use on the property. This is the commensurate zoning change map. The downtown specific plan from 1998 functions as an overlay zone, meaning that the specific plan has to be used alongside the conventional zoning which is you might imagine from an implementation standpoint is somewhat challenging. Instead we're reverting everything to downtown specific plan and that single document will serve to provide the regulations as it relates to these properties.

The last thing I'd like to highlight relative to these maps is the Planning Commission recommendation as it relates to the Charles Street Commerce Overlay area. So, the existing zoning is shown on the far left. The center illustrates a red area that had been the Charles Street Commerce Overlay. What that acknowledged is that there are existing residential houses but we had at least two commercial properties in that space, one of which is the dentist office along Moorpark Avenue. The second is the church at Walnut Canyon and Charles Street Excuse me, Walnut Street and Charles Street.

And that kind of opened the door to some thought about whether we might see or anticipate future commercial conversions of those homes. During deliberation, the Planning Commission expressed some concerns that the residents on those properties hadn't been adequately outreached or invited to discuss or understand those implications. So in addition to that and then just concerns about what that might look like if that was to transition to commercial, the planning commission elected to recommend that that overlay be removed from downtown specific plan. So they did expressly want that discussion to be presented to you with how it was presented to the planning commission but their recommendation and frankly staff's at this point is to remove the overlay from the specific plan.

And with the exception of that item at the public hearing on June 10th, the Planning Commission recommended approval of these actions to you on a recommendation of 4-0 with Commissioner DiCecco absent. And then leading back to the proposed action this evening, which is outlined here and in your staff report broken into segments. Rather than read this again to you I would like to draw your attention to one note on the bottom so each resolution has language that would authorize the Community Development Director to implement these approvals What that means is potentially non-substantive refinements to correct errors and ensure internal consistency with the Council's actions. So there have been at least a couple things brought to our attention through the recent agenda item publication, that do warrant some cleanups, you know potentially the substitution of some photos, references to approval years and things like that.

With this you'll provide me with the ability and entrust me to make those changes and kind of get that document to an acceptable level before it's put on our website for public use. And that concludes my presentation. I believe at this time we will open up to your questions. Thank you. Do we have any

2:36 – 2:4316 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed2:36:14

questions? What questions do we have? We'll answer that one. Who wants to start?

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role2:36:27

I'm sorry council members, if you could just give us a quick moment. I want to make sure we're following the script correctly. Alright back on for questions.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed2:36:44

A couple of clarifying questions perhaps first so that So that I butcher it less. I think that's probably the expectation that I should set. Mr. Loomis, Dr. Chacko good to see you guys again. Thank you for the work and effort you put in. Doug for the $250,000 for the downtown specific plan that we've been promised to be imbursed by SCAG wonderfully is there a time limit on when we need to implement this in order to get reimbursed or is there an expectation that we won't be holding those funds indefinitely?

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role2:37:16

Yes, thank you for asking Council Member Means. So SCAG has been kind enough to extend the deadline twice for this grant. It had been set to expire on July 1st but at this time our Memorandum of Understanding with SCAG would like the council to make a decision on the plan at a public hearing by December 31st. All

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed2:37:34

right so by the end of the year? Correct. And then with the segmentation as easy as it is to read for everyone else If we were to approve one segment and not the other two or two segments and not one, are we not ... How do I ask this? Should we not be intending to either approve all three or not approve all three so that things can be worked on together after the fact.

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role2:38:04

That is a great question and one that we've spent a lot of time thinking about as well. Okay, go ahead. There are several options to ensure that we are basically the public is protected in the event that only one resolution is passed because obviously the way that this is segmented only portions of the specific plan would be adopted which is problematic for everyone so the intention is that all the resolutions are either adopted or not and if for some reason procedurally we're not able to accomplish that tonight we'll be able At a subsequent meeting.

I appreciate that. And then to, sorry just to lay it out fully, to a second extent there's also a provision in the resolutions that set them as effective upon the effective date of the ordinance which is for the zoning amendment so there's a second catch there too.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed2:38:53

I appreciate that. Period. And thank you. As we go through these segments, if I intend to ask questions in segment one and we later find out during segment two or three that the question that I have there should've been asked in segment one, am I essentially forbidden from bringing it up or discussing?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 11Proposed2:39:17

Unfortunately, yes. The discussion is divided out into the three parts this evening. It'll basically be collapsed into two parts since Mayor Pro Tem is not here today but unfortunately I would encourage council to try to think of all your questions that belong in segment one and segment one because then you will have your Council Member Barrett will be returned on the dais and he's not to participate not just in words but also facial expressions and following along Discussion in the presence of the remaining council members.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed2:39:50

I'll keep an eye out on his facial expressions. Thanks for the heads up So basically we got to make sure we ask all of the questions that we possibly can In the right segment, thank you

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UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed2:40:02

Okay, I guess I will start and I tried segmenting them to the best of my ability but please let me know if I am off track. So if we designate actually nope that's Charles Street and that's off the table never mind. I know we were talking about parking a little bit and the infrastructure. I guess what happens if future parking study shows that there is a significant shortage?

Is my question.

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role2:40:41

Yes, thank you for that question. The parking study that we envision would be a parking utilization and management program. It would basically be a two-part effort. The first would be comprehensive survey of the demand downtown and inventory And the second would be a series of recommendations about how to effectively manage that and plan to address those needs on the same trajectory as the parking demand increases, right? So that is going to be a very technical effort prepared by engineers who specialize in this which is one of the reasons we didn't want to embark on it as part of this plan. In addition to the vacancies and you know kind of momentum on High Street not really coming to that point yet.

But to answer your question on the nose, the ability to provide for additional parking is what that plan would ensure for. It would evaluate kind of when we would hit those points of inflection and have a need for additional facilities or enhancements to facilities Hopefully identify a revenue stream or some mechanism to ensure that we reach that one of the common methods is parking meters You know, typically when you see 90% occupancy at peak time of on-street parking there may be recommendation to the council to add parking meters That's that's one strategy but the short answer is you know We'll have to come back with more studied analysis of how to do that. But that's the intent of the plan

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed2:42:07

Okay. Thank you. Regarding the economic development portion, so how do these changes help us attract more actual like businesses, retail, entertainment as opposed to more residential?

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role2:42:22

I don't necessarily view it as a tradeoff between one or the other but I can tell you on the very basic level that the permit streamlining alone is something that is significant as an advantage for our community versus other jurisdictions As an example, the Moorpark General Store recently upgraded their alcohol license. Mr. Barakat was able to do that through a conditional use process and because our planners are so good we had that done in about a month-and-a-half through Planning Commission but if the plan were approved that would have been an administrative process that I could have done.

Same level of security same conditions from the Police Department but this plan is is designed to clearly communicate our standards and provide an expedited process that we believe will be attractive to investors.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed2:43:08

Thank you. Let's see, so with the new administrative approval process on three-to-nine units, is there any opportunity for council to review those or is that just not at all? Just ten or more, 10,000 square feet or more?

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role2:43:26

Thank you. I'm going to ask my team for some assistance there. Was this a new convention that we added? Can you repeat that question?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed2:43:34

Yeah, I'm looking at... Hold on, I marked the page. Page 1042 under development permits where the three-to-nine units are more of an administrative versus and I think it's ten thousand square feet. Am I off? Did I have the wrong...

2:43 – 2:5028 turns

CommentDevelopment Director Gene BurseProposed · by introduction2:43:59

I'm sorry, what

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed2:43:59

page? Well, I wrote 1042. It could be...

CommentDevelopment Director Gene BurseProposed · by introduction2:44:04

Chapter 6-3.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed2:44:05

Thank you. 6.2.5 Development Permits. Okay.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed2:44:19

Family development between three and nine units was listed as an administrative permit.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed2:44:24

So there was also a 10,000 square foot or under for commercial. Is that correct?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed2:44:37

But we'll need to find the exact reference, but that sounds correct.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed2:44:40

Is it 6.2.5B? Because that reads commercial construction with a building floor area 10,000 square feet or greater.

CommentDevelopment Director Gene BurseProposed · by introduction2:44:47

Yes.

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role2:44:48

Yep. That's correct. Allen if you don't mind if I jump in. So there is an existing mechanic in the code on the ground today that allows for residential development of up to nine units as a director's level approval. The regs and 6.25 are correct. What I would add is that Administrative process or the administrative process is appealable. So if there was concern about a particular development that was being processed at the director's level, it could be appealed up for consideration by the planning

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed2:45:20

commission. At what point would planning commission or would we find out about it if it's just going through an administrative process?

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role2:45:27

No, that's a good question. So the administrative permit requires a notification of pending decision that circulated to adjacent properties and typically people on a stakeholders list if they're interested. And it provides that notice within 10 days out from that decision.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed2:45:41

Okay. Let's see... Okay. In the same section, 6.2. Projects spanning two districts gets the more permissive height and setback standards across the entire site. So if someone's combining a high street lot with an R1 lot behind it that means they could build a 40 foot structure next to a single family home.

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role2:46:20

That's correct. I did spend some time looking at that mechanic specifically and the single family home zoning Alan, correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that tops out as 35 feet. That sounds correct. So we're talking about a potential delta of 5 feet? Okay. The other point that we noticed is that there are only limited locations where that high street would be adjacent to something that could potentially be less...

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed2:46:45

And one of them is already an apartment that I saw. I just wanted to confirm that. Okay. So it's just the five foot difference. Are there any height step down or transition standards where like a mixed use on high street backs a residential area.

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role2:47:08

Yeah, I'm just speaking aloud to Alan. I'm thinking of the massing requirements that are... The architectural standards and the form standards in this document are kind of a level beyond the code as it relates to the mixed-use step back element So there are a number of standards that deal with like the module handling of massing on a building

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed2:47:29

Yeah, I'm going to say by and large there's a number of modulation standards but nothing that specifically speaks to the condition that you've raised with the council member.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed2:47:38

So are you mentioning High Street? Between High Street and Charles Street we got a three-story structure then a single family house behind it.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed2:47:45

Right.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed2:47:46

There's no protection for that.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed2:47:47

Right, I mean there's really only one or two places where that is. There's a lot of places. But I guess if an existing structure is demolished then yes, there would be. Yeah,

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed2:48:04

it's just the whole Moorpark Avenue. The whole Moorpark Avenue and all of High Street that isn't the daily project on that side because the border to that is just a

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed2:48:14

train station. So there's anything north, high street north and then all of Moorpark Avenue. I guess my only concern is if there is just a single family home how I don't know what I'm asking.

not transcribed≈9s of audible speech the AI couldn’t make out▸ listen
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UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed2:48:46

If I may jump in on clarification, I think our thinking and not necessarily requiring that is to get as the directors Pondello pointed out. The difference between your R1 districts and the mixed use, the maximum height allowed today is 40 feet and 35 so it's a relatively minor

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed2:49:03

variation. But that's if something is already two stories or three stories but I'm talking about if See if someone right on Moorpark Road demolishes that little single story that's there and then there's a single story behind it. Now, there's a 40 foot, 12 foot. Very different condition.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed2:49:18

Absolutely understand.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed2:49:20

So that's more of my concern

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed2:49:22

To hop onto that same question, on Moorpark Avenue mixed use the current I guess previous plan it's fairly similar with the building heights but that plan has more protections for the neighboring areas. For instance above I believe 28 feet there is a setback of 10 feet in the next structure And then on this plan we're getting rid of that part. So I'm wondering why did we have the protection against the existing neighborhoods on the previous plan, but in this one we're giving it up?

I feel like my concern is that we're prioritizing density opposed to neighborhood fit on a lot of this stuff.

2:50 – 2:5514 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed2:50:09

I would say that's a fair question to ask. I think our philosophy in kind of moving forward with from the current plan to this plan was to really focus on kind of essential development standards and also looking at some of the development that's already occurred, you know, in the kind of combination of how they're having to position parking on sites. It seemed that at least with the two or three developments that have occurred downtown, that's not been an issue.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed2:50:38

And I guess that's why I brought up the, what are they called? Step backs. And I know they're in the front but that's why I'm thinking is there anything in the back that if we come across that where there's a 40 foot structure allowed that backs a single story home where they would You know, have to do some type of step down in height as

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed2:51:05

they head back to the parcel. I think there's probably a relatively strategic and easy kind of language fix that we could probably craft this evening that would address that concern. And don't think I'd want to do it on the podium right now. Sure. I'd want to consult with Director Spondella to kind of craft that.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed2:51:23

I would like to mention, on the current zoning code as it's been modified there actually is language very similar to what you're talking about in the current zoning code. That's something we could relatively straightforwardly adapt to.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed2:51:38

And again that's just me

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed2:51:40

so... But I think it's consistent with both of your concerns I believe.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed2:51:51

Are you okay if I continue? Regarding future mixed-use projects, and then I think we're still in the 6.5 range. How do we ensure more ground floor commercial space rather than simply meeting a minimal like mixed use requirement

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role2:52:24

Thank you, Councilmember. So the ground floor commercial space is a required element of the High Street mixed-use designation. However, the intention is to get an activated portion of the building at the street frontage that is relaxed a bit. It doesn't require like a retail commercial operation. It could be something like a building lobby or a patio space or something like that.

That is kind of the extent to that we felt comfortable that we could push that To get that mixed-use element and it's something we would encourage, but that's what the plan currently lists

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed2:53:05

So for mixed use have have we looked into How many? restaurants and shops and coffee shops we can actually sustain without having half of them eat each other alive because we're looking into this future now of Main Street isn't as necessary as it used to be. It could be hidden in the back alley and you can still function as a company, so paying money to sit on Main Street is a lot of money to pay out. Not every restaurant is going to be able to afford to do that. If we have too many spaces, we're going to have a lot of retail that isn't filled. If you go down High Street right now, you might see what I'm talking about.

My concern and I'm wondering is that mixed use seems like an easy silver bullet and I don't think it necessarily fits every single place. So was that a part of this discussion at all?

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role2:54:02

I appreciate the question. Our philosophy wasn't so much to conduct like an economic yield study or viability study for specific commercial uses and understand what that threshold was, we believe that is better done with the flexibility of the market and certainly even if we were to commission a study it may not be valid for a useful period of time. So our emphasis was to provide the flexibility to accommodate a variety of desired commercial uses rather than identify requirements to produce those.

The other component here is, and perhaps Mark can speak better to this. You know the development community typically builds what it believes the market can yield and lenders lend to that effect as well. And I don't mean to dodge your question from the standpoint of like our responsibility but that was at least our thought process through that discussion.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed2:54:50

Then I guess one follow-up would be on a mixed use zoned area does it have to include housing on that parcel? It's a mixed use parcel?

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role2:55:01

That does not. We have commercial only allowed as well.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed2:55:04

It can be commercial only, correct? Yes. And what allowed uses in the commercial can be on

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role2:55:09

that? There's an entire palette and variety under the land use table. If you'll give me a moment I can share that.

2:55 – 3:0328 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed2:55:20

To be back on that is hotel or hospitality or event spaces one of those uses that's allowed?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed2:55:24

They are.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed2:55:25

Thank you.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed2:55:26

We're about a car dealership, right?

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role2:55:30

They are not.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed2:55:31

Okay.

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role2:55:32

So Table 6.5-2 is the nonresidential use table that talks about obviously all nonresidential uses that we're considering and the permit process to allow for those. So whether you're interested in Moorpark Avenue or High Street it'll kind of list what the intent is for those spaces. Retail shops, restaurants Okay, and

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed2:56:08

So I know that the development east of Spring Road on Charles Street, that was pulled out of this plan. Of a corner apartment. But then also the partial that is next to High Tech Auto and Moorpark 76, that was previously part of the downtown specific plan but has been pulled out of it. I believe that was rezoned to mixed use in that section. Is that right?

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role2:56:47

That is correct, that is designated as a mixed use medium.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed2:56:51

Okay so mixed use medium but right now what is it zoned as?

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role2:56:56

Right now the zoning is mixed use medium as well So what we just did was we just removed it from the downtown specific plan boundary. Okay, I mean that was actually part of the general plan opportunity site process that we looked at realizing that one day that use might change.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed2:57:19

I just have one last question for segment one for myself. And going away from building, but regarding outdoor dining which is still under the 6.5-ish area. It says live entertainment or music permitted at any outdoor eating area so how does that work next to homes and what are the hours? Would they just follow state like normal 10 p.m. rules or guidelines?

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role2:57:47

No, thank you. That's a great question. Obviously we're trying to create an environment that has sound and activity but that's not desirable at all points in the day and with the addition of residential uses it could be problematic. The noise ordinance or noise standards associated with that There's the need in a couple cases to deal with more detailed elements, to reference the municipal code for things that aren't spelled out explicitly in the downtown specific plan. And that is one of those things. So we would defer the established noise ordinance in our community. That would be the enforceable standard no different than anywhere else.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed2:58:21

And so can we just make a note?

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role2:58:25

We could but again I believe that that's already effective by the reference that we have. Great. But thank you.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed2:58:35

Let's see if I can stay within this segmentation. I bet I don't. I will do my best. Let's start with section 5.2, which is my question number eight. Would there be a reason why? And I'm probably leading the witness here. But as I read through the statement of economic development, the fourth paragraph The meat of the paragraph reads, given that Moorpark neither wants nor is likely to attract auto dealers, big-buck retailers, large shopping malls and other major sales tax generators that other cities have pursued...

would there be any reason why we couldn't strike that Moorpark does not want Major sales tax generators. Could we make some, when we get to discussion, some verbiage changes without dramatically impacting or sending this back for review? I think

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role2:59:37

that would be fine.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed2:59:38

Perfect. See, my questions are easy. Now let's see what the next one is in here. Question 10 asked and answered as far as the motel hospitality spaces. Thank you. And I'd like some guidance. This is either going to be in Section 6.6.4.2 or it's going to be in Section 4.7 and I won't be allowed to talk about it. On building signage. So do we have, and maybe I've missed it throughout here, but could someone put up a billboard on a sign? Does it have to be a western theme? Could it be a ticker sign? Do we have any guidance on what kind of...

I apologize. That's how passionate I feel about this. Do we have any guidance on what kind of on-building signage? And is this the right time, or should I wait until we talk about wayfinding signs later? I kind of feel like I'm stuck asking a negative because I didn't see it.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed3:00:38

I'll jump in while Doug is referencing his computer here. We are silent, as you noticed on signs and the downtown specific plans so regulation of signs that's one of the components that will default back to the regular zoning code. So all your sign regulations within the zoning code would apply to the downtown as they exist.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:01:00

Could there be a recommendation that within within that structure, within that specific plan that we had a different or higher standard for on-building

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed3:01:12

signage. Would that not be recommended? We do not recommend that at this point given that there is a complicated interrelationship with your existing sign regulations as well as the First Amendment once you start regulating signs. It's a pretty complicated analysis.

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role3:01:29

Council Member Means, if I may. That would be a challenging thing to institute for existing development but certainly with new development that goes through the permitting process we would have the ability to require them to establish a sign program. The intent of that is to ensure consistency between signage over a variety of tenants but we could also require certain elements be put in place like blade signs consistently and have some say over the types of materials used.

While regulating the content of the signage is problematic, we still have some say over the time, place and manner.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:02:03

Yeah I'm not looking to violate the First Amendment with the content if I suggested that I apologize but you know a big neon sign or a billboard like sign would not be good. I do not feel it would be a good fit and I want to make sure that we have the ability to refrain those from coming in.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed3:02:20

And if I may, to get to your question about wayfinding signs. Wayfinding signs that would direct the motoring or pedestrian public to downtown destinations, parking lots, or the new library etc., those would be done through a public process. Those are presumably publicly funded signs mounted in the public right of way. What you decide to do as a council and community is up to you on that respect.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:02:45

My question was more about the segmentation. Since signage wasn't there for the buildings, do I have to wait for something sign related in a different segment? So thank you for clarity.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed3:02:55

I'm looking

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:02:57

for facial cues is what we referred to as earlier.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:03:03

When we discuss signs, would that apply to I guess like the sandwich board signs that are on the walkways outside of restaurants and businesses?

3:03 – 3:0818 turns

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role3:03:18

It would. And I apologize for not having the background on the permitting of those but you know, the intent being that if it's currently permitted in our municipal code, that would extend to the new downtown code as well. I can share without getting too far ahead of myself that, you know, signage is one of the items on our zoning code update to-do list. That's not part of the round that you might be seeing soon but it's part of a subsequent round.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:03:48

I have a question about segmentation again. If we were to talk about things like whether or not street ballers should be involved, should we be looking at parking perhaps 5.7 so not appropriate here? Or is this more in vision or...I'm not sure how to...where should I ask questions like that if I was to have any questions? No problem. I can continue asking questions that I don't know if I'm allowed to ask, if you'd like? It's going

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:04:25

smoother than I thought it was gonna go

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:04:27

so... I haven't gotten to page two yet

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:04:29

there. So far.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:05:19

Perhaps they don't have questions about bollards. I might've been confused, I don't want to talk about those at all anymore.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 11Proposed3:05:27

Follow-up question?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:05:29

To my question? Yes. So these

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 11Proposed3:05:31

bollards where would they go in

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:05:33

what

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 11Proposed3:05:33

part of the...

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:05:34

In the street if I was to ask a question. Perhaps I can ask a broader question that allows me to talk about it now. Would the topic such as traffic mitigation devices that may impact the surrounding buildings or traffic flow be something that would be appropriate in a downtown specific plan, or is that something that could be implemented later with council direction as a separate capital improvement project.

Am I allowed to ask that question? I will ask that question if I'm allowed to ask that question.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 7Proposed3:06:17

One thing I will weigh in, and Council Member Means is that we do have a capital improvement project for the High Street streetscape phase two which does include a discussion about bollards as part of that infrastructure plan

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:06:33

So does that integrate into this downtown specific plan, or are you suggesting that's already there so whatever we do here will also include?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 7Proposed3:06:42

Well they do interact in a way because it does talk about the interaction on the street sidewalk and crossing areas. But we would more appropriately address it through that separate capital discussion.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:06:58

That is sufficient. I will not be asking any questions about bollards, thank you sir. I do have a broader question as well about housing. My belief is that if the building is owned by the business, as we have many on High Street right now, that oftentimes businesses can sustain longer because they can control their rent expense, they can control Uh, they're building in their structure and their environment.

Are we doing anything to suggest or promote that landowners are going to be able to build and use for commercial purposes these properties? If they were building a multi-use I imagine the inclusionary housing Factors start to weigh in could we could we suspend for this district inclusionary housing if we so chose to All again trying to figure out where to segment that question and how but how perhaps the bigger question is How do we use this to promote?

owner operator businesses in that area Or do we maybe we don't value them

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role3:08:16

The promotion of property development opportunities that are provided by the plan.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:08:23

Yeah, in the planner we making accommodations to without naming names there's you know particular hardware store that is in that location that has been there a long time and as an owner operator I want to encourage those sorts of businesses to come and stay and maintain as opposed to what we've seen recently where we've had some operators come in that have been here for a number of years, and then cycled out due to whatever not owning the property, not controlling their fate.

So I didn't know if there was a way to promote owner-operator.

3:09 – 3:1415 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 7Proposed3:09:04

Just to clarify, so you're trying to say for private property that's owned any limits? Can we apply any limits to the type of inclusionary housing is that what you're asking?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:09:15

Yeah, if I was trying to develop my property... If I had a property there. And I was trying to develop my property and I wanted to make it multi-use and I wanted to have a commercial business or commercial enterprise in it and there's a housing element to it and all of a sudden it's 15% affordable which is right for all the right reasons but it may not create a dynamic element to the owner-operator business that is kind of the Main Street Disneyland storefront. I didn't know if there was a way to promote that, and maybe I'm asking a question that's outside of the scope but that's my

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role3:09:49

goal. Thank you. I appreciate that. I think I've grasped it now. So the inclusionary housing would apply for projects of 10 or more units? So again, that may or may not be a concern with respect to your example. But I would guess that particularly given the size of the properties on High Street as well as if they're to host a commercial component as well, they may not reach that number of units. But you're correct in that if it was proposing more than 10 units, they would be required to either dedicate those units for affordable housing onsite, 15% of them were paid through the Inclusionary Fee Program

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:10:27

My follow-up questions are probably more discussion than they are questions. I appreciate the clarification, thank you everybody for dancing through this segmentation with me.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:10:37

OK. So I got one with, what is it? Section 6.6.6 Design Standards Walls Fences Utilities Remember we had a lengthy discussion about what types of fences we were requiring on High Street and so on. This here says permitted materials finished wood fencing stucco over block wrought iron brick Is that limited to those or is it just a guideline of what we want to see in terms of durable materials that will withstand time?

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role3:11:14

Thank you for the question. That section 6.6.6-1 leads with that fences and walls shall be composed of the materials listed in table 6.60-1, so I would be looking to see that they were utilizing one of the materials listed in that section.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed3:11:38

The follow-up that the director may approve materials not listed if you deem it appropriate. So there's flexibility.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:11:44

Thank you. Okay and then what about temporary barriers? Is that included in that too?

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role3:11:56

This, the use of walls and fences here I'm Understanding to mean permanent, fixed, anchored. Things that are movable or temporary. Certainly there are regulations that apply in the right of way if it's related to outdoor dining but I don't know...I hate to say but I think it would depend. I

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:12:16

guess what I was getting at is some restaurants and cafes that have ABC licenses have to You know, permitted cage around their use which I don't like. It's stupid but that's the law. Sometimes they'll do movable barriers like planter boxes that look really nice and they put them out there in front of their spots and to me that's an approved fit in my own mind. That's something looks really nice and fits for the area. And then you see things like if you go to downtown Ventura where it's like White vinyl plastic fences and, you know, the cage things put out there which doesn't really fit with this area here. I just want to make sure that we would have some sort of discretion on that.

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role3:13:00

I appreciate that and I'm not trying to be cute in my response but in the application of an alcohol permit they would have to get a permit from the city. We would be reviewing that barrier were it a planter or a fence and then I would have the ability to determine with the assistance of the police department whether or not that was adequate and designed appropriately So if it's not in that context where it's not something that we're looking at as part of an alcohol license, it's a little bit more floaty.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:13:26

Yeah, ABC doesn't care as long as it's the certain dimensions so it comes back to us with what you want to see on it.

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role3:13:31

Yeah, so I have control over that alcohol permit request. I can probably address what's viewed to be not consistent with these guidelines or a nuisance or a blight but again it's more situational.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:13:41

Okay, thank you.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:13:57

I think I'm excluded from asking about 6.4.5 right now, yes. You see how I didn't talk about it? Well done team. Can't wait. Think I'm good.

3:14 – 3:2012 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:14:25

Is it transit adjacent part of this or is that the next section?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 11Proposed3:14:43

That will be in the next segment.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:14:45

Oh, it's in three. Okay.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:14:50

I can only imagine how painful this is for all of you to watch us try to figure out if we're allowed to ask a question or not. Thank you for your patience.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:14:58

Okay, any other questions on this one? No? You good? Do we have any speakers?

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by role3:15:09

We do have one speaker. I don't know what section he's interested in talking about, though. So hopefully... Okay, wonderful.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 11Proposed3:15:20

Just the one public comment period for all comments.

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by role3:15:24

Wonderful. So we have one speaker and that is Mr. John Gregorchuk. As this is a public hearing you have five minutes to address the council but we do need to open the public hearing.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:15:36

Open the public hearing?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 18Proposed3:15:41

And I don't need to segment my...

CommentDevelopment Director Gene BurseProposed · by introduction3:15:44

You can if you want.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 18Proposed3:15:49

Awesome. Well, I just want to say thank you so much. I know this is going long but I had a couple notes and then listening to you guys, I added some more. But first off, I want to say thanks because I was part of the live sessions putting dots on the pictures and then adding comments for Doug and everybody to go through. So I appreciate all the actual responses to comments One of my comments was around transitional heights. So because the downtown zone is so narrow with each of its segments, if we do transitional heights in the front, transitional heights in the back, the height limits no longer make sense because our lots and in the downtown zone are usually about 100 feet deep in the first place. So that's something that super passionate to me and a couple other of the pro housing folks and pro development folks But I do want to say there were some things that...

I guess my favorite thing, my favorite change out of all the public comments is row homes are super passionate of mine. I love traveling. I love going to different cities and being able to see how people create mixed use spaces out of these row homes that really create a sense of community and belonging in a downtown zone. And I love that Moorpark Avenue is kind of like a test case for that, which I think is awesome. I'd love to see it more places but I understand change is hard.

But I do really want to emphasize that we only have one downtown zone And if our downtown zone looks like everywhere else, it's going to be really hard to convince people, hey what makes this special? Because it looks just like the rest of the town. So I know change is really hard because there are beautiful craftsman homes and beautiful homes on Charles Street but that change might be something that's really necessary in order to keep You know, we have a chicken and egg problem right now with High Street where do we bring in people? Do we bring in businesses? We had excellent businesses and something happened. We have a lot of vacancies right now so that makes me very nervous. So I want to make sure that whatever we're doing is really...

you know, we have to take bold steps and change is going to be really tough but again, we only have one downtown district I love the Bullard's non-question because one of the things that makes me so passionate about the downtown zone, I'm a member of the Moorpark Morning Rotary. I help out with Holiday on High Street and I love when High Street gets activated I love seeing country days. I love seeing Apricot Festival. It was at Arroyo Vista. I loved seeing it back on High Street. I love Holiday on High Street when we had the snow machines blowing snow down on the street. That was an amazing experience, and I would love to see a way that the downtown specific plan encourages that.

a planning issue or if that's the city infrastructure issue, but something where there's some kind of recurring events that shut down High Street from a period of time. So it becomes hey we know every Friday night there's pedestrian activity or every Sunday morning there's a farmer's market on High Street and so the community and neighbors around Moorpark start to see oh High Street gets activated on this day consistently every week So that we can bring more and more people to those businesses.

And then in regards to that, there's a beautiful park right on Magnolia. Magnolia and Charles and Magnolia and High Street. That park is really beautiful but I think What would be amazing is if we could put some kind of drive aisle on the east side of that park specifically for the fire department and fire access. One of the things we noticed last year with Holiday On High Street was the fire department, their only access in and out of their fire station is on high street so if we shut down high street for events they have no way to get in and out without affecting the pedestrians on the street itself I think it would be amazing if there was an opportunity or if we could look into somehow enabling Magnolia Park to have some kind of opening that's only open on those special events, the special recurring atmosphere.

Those special street activation events and then Yeah, and then in regards to those recurring events. If there is some way to do a prescriptive plan where every single event no matter who you are if if you have less than this amount of people you follow this plan and that involves these many police officers this many city services and then if you jump to the next level here's what it is that way each year that we're doing events or new clubs come in we're not reinventing the wheel but yeah thank you thank you so much

3:20 – 3:2811 turns

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by role3:20:56

And that is the only speaker card I have on this item.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:21:01

I'm sorry, was that the last one?

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by role3:21:03

That is the only speaker card I have yes.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:21:04

Okay we'll go ahead and close the public hearing and open up for discussion for segment 1. I want to kick this one off with what Mr. Gregorchuk just said, Magnolia Park is...I don't see that as part of anything in here. Should it be? How would that be addressed? You know it has a bit of property trades possibly so how do we handle that?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 7Proposed3:21:44

Mayor regarding the property trade discussion I would reserve that at a future Discussion and there is direction by council for us to come back to you in a future date regarding Properties on Charles Street, but it could impact Magnolia Park. All right

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:22:00

Good Okay, so My biggest issue with all of the development is existing and proposed. We've got a downtown that was the oldest part of our area with residential housing, and now we have A lot of mixed use, high buildings and we're pretty much saying that's a priority over people who have lived in this area. And I don't see any protections for that at all. So if you live on Charles Street you could have a three story tower over your single story house I don't know the solution around that, but it's just a concern.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:22:53

What do you think? Yeah, I see the concern. I also see the opportunity to connect parcels between Charles and Hyde that may allow for a more complex or even desirable project so it's hard to envision where we will limit ourselves to try to protect and where we will limit ourselves from having success. I think as we get into discussion I just first want to thank everybody that worked so hard on this.

Good to see everybody again. Councilwoman Delgado and I got to be on the ad hoc, so we've seen a few different versions of this. The overall point, and Dr. DiGiacco was saying it earlier... It's a specific plan, but the more specific we get or the more granular we get then the less effective it will be. And so I find myself yet again as I go through this struggling between I want to figure out items like traffic flow and bollards and whatnot and yet if that's too specific and it needs to be somewhere else or if the setbacks for the front And the back don't allow for it to be a project so that parcel sits empty or undeveloped.

That's a strike too, so I appreciate the work. I also wanted to comment that 260 comments by 23 users and 93 video views. I was one of them. We did an extraordinary job, and Mr. Spondello credit to you and the team of trying to get outreach And yet even in our attempt to try to get outreach over and over and over again we've got pretty limited inputs and I think it's really important that we take the time to ask these questions and dig into it because there's 34,912 other residents that didn't have a A chance or an interest in a in China and so it's it's a little broader than that. Specifically on this if they had to choose one or two things to change or at least to draw attention to I very much dislike the wording saying that we are not interested.

In a price prices no one in this room there were not interested in the sales tax generator I don't think that was the intent by whoever crafted that paragraph but I would make the suggestion like, I have so many notes. I will find it momentarily. We can just take out two or three sentences and I think we are getting to our overall mission there without Giving an outward appearance that we don't want sales tax generators on High Street. So I will find that while somebody else goes. The only other item that I'm particularly passionate about is, I see High Street, I see the successful businesses be those owner-operator ones, the ones that have invested in the community and they've grown in the community with multiuse. And I'm not a developer and I appreciate the inputs I'm afraid that we lose some of that because it's more profitable for a developer to come in and build residential and create a lobby area that's not activating High Street in the same way that an owner-operator business on High Street would.

And I'm still not sure how we really tailor that in, and maybe it's not something you can put in a plan so much as a comment and a vision.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:26:21

Yeah, I'm concerned with the mixed use part of it being everywhere and the point where it could be almost more profitable just to pack in the residential and just leave the ground floor vacant. And we have a row of just vacant stores everywhere with the intention of someday someone will put a shop in there but in reality we know they're not going to. Then it turns into housing again.

That just worries me because I think it's really easy to say that everything is going to be mixed use and commercial, but I don't have a lot of confidence in this whole area being just like that. And the last thing I want to see is this place just packed up with housing and housing for the sake of housing. And then we ended up having this whole system pretty much fail.

The setbacks, that's something that I think we should consider your point of if you linked units together, I get that but The issue here is that I can see a really good project and I can see a horrible project in the same plan. And I want to be able to make sure that we can screen out the horrible ones and have the good ones go through. I'm not sure how to quantify

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:27:49

that. Perhaps we ask our expert team, I can't imagine we're the first council to have these concerns and perhaps you have some insights to either ways that we can tweak or might alleviate our fears in practicality. I'd invite anybody that might want to address that if I'm allowed to ask the question?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 2Proposed3:28:12

Can I respond?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:28:14

Yeah Dr. DeCicco is terrific.

3:28 – 3:3338 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed3:28:19

One comment so far is in terms of the, you're looking for protection between existing R1 district and basically Charles Street and High Street. The height limits have not changed from what the original zoning code allows. So even right now you can put a 35 foot tall building on Charles Street, you could put a 35 foot tall building or 40 foot tall building on High Street so that protection that you're looking for isn't in the existing code either currently

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed3:29:00

just as a clarification. I think we get that but I think Yes, 35 feet is allowed but 35 feet isn't there. Understood. Absolutely understood. And so that's I think where our concern comes in.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed3:29:11

Yeah.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed3:29:12

Because they're mostly especially all along Moorpark Avenue

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed3:29:16

it might be

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed3:29:17

all single story. I don't think I've seen a two-story.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed3:29:20

Yeah, there are a couple of... Lido Yancy's Old Place. That would be one of the two stores along there. There also though is an alley between Moorpark Road, the properties on Moorpark Road but I totally understand and that was actually something that did in fact come up. That was a concern even through the GPAC through all of that was we don't want to intensify that development enough to where it affects the adjacent neighborhood.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed3:29:47

So then how is that remedied? How did you guys remedy that?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed3:29:54

Yeah. Again, we can... You want to adapt

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed3:29:59

the... There is language in the current code that essentially is kind of a wedding cake sort of form for buildings where mixed-use buildings, rear yard lot abutting a residential lot at over 28 feet there's a requirement for 10 foot additional step back. That pushes the second or third floor building back What I would recommend is that there's a very simple line that we could add into the two tables for the two mixed use zones that speak to rear setbacks where we could have, which is insert an additional line in there. That would say the step back when it is adjacent to that rear setback is adjacent to and I would say our one lots because when we look at the map of downtown High Street backs up to R2 lots, most of which are city-owned properties or existing apartment buildings.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:30:52

So I have a segmentation question. Am I allowed to talk about those R2 lots

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed3:30:55

in

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:30:55

particular? Because I've

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed3:30:57

got... Sorry.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:30:58

No, it's totally

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed3:31:00

reasonable

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:31:00

and...

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed3:31:01

I'm trying to keep myself in

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:31:02

segmentation. It is connected. That's a perfect question.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:31:05

Yeah, that's Segment 3 but I want to talk about it right now too.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:31:08

Stop telling legal what we can and can't do. Let her tell

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:31:11

us. I

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:31:11

just

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:31:11

want to make sure that we don't get to Segment 3, then I can't speak about something in Segment 1 that I was waiting for Segment 3 on. Right. And how am I going to find that out when we get to 3? Right.

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role3:31:20

I appreciate that Councilmembers. We are catching up here. Stand by please.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed3:31:25

That's quite right. So I would say we can address that issue with a very kind of strategic line at it, that would carry over the language that's in the current code.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:31:32

Can I ask a follow-up to that? You talked about your wedding cake... I'm so sorry. I asked if I could ask a follow up and then I did not give you time to answer that. Yeah, that's okay. Our public speaker came up and he talked about if you start having these wedding cake effects Then you have less square footage and now the project might not be viable. That's what I think that I heard. Are we getting ourselves into a place where we're trying to create these protections? And then, we can't attract a reasonable project because they can't get enough square footage to do the deal.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed3:32:05

I'd like Dr. Chekhov to speak to this as an architect in town, but I think architects is they sort of consider all the different constraints. They're likely to sort that out so If you have a requirement for a step back from the rear property line plus a rear yard setback and you're required to provide parking, I think what's likely to happen is what you've seen with the High Street Depot and the proposal for the mixed-use development on Moorpark Avenue where developers are just going to end up putting the parking in the back of the lot.

And then the entire building is pulled back such that it lives within an envelope of that wedding cake. But it's going to be a box that lives within a wedding cake envelope, if you will.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 12Proposed3:32:52

Council members that live, okay. That makes sense.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed3:32:55

Yeah so I think that's what's likely to happen given the precedent of the two developments. There is

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed3:32:59

just a lot more space now in between the 40 foot and perhaps

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed3:33:04

the single story. Instead of building all the way back up the side to the back of the property line they'll just pull the building forward and the back of the lot will be parking lot or

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:33:11

some other non-structural

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed3:33:11

use.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:33:12

It seems like we'd be forcing them to go vertical in order to maximize the investment in the land.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed3:33:16

They're going to go vertical anyway to 40 feet?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:33:19

I would agree with that statement. It'll be a tunnel. Sorry, I think

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role3:33:24

you had a recommendation. Just quickly council members so if that mechanic is agreeable we would have to have that discussion on the High Street mixed-use table 6.4.1 as part of segment 1. The section related to the Moorpark Avenue mixed use table 6. 4.2 would have to occur with segment 3. So if you like it like it twice

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3:33 – 3:4840 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:33:47

So do we not just talk about that? I'm looking forward to talking about it later.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:33:53

On the mixed use, how do we prevent a developer from just checking the box of commercial to pack-in and residential?

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role3:34:09

I'm going to ask for Alan and Dr. DiCicco's help, but again there is a commercial requirement as it relates to mixed use development. If they decide to go with the minimum they would still be able to build the remainder of the project as it relates to the massing and form standards that are permitted. So in terms of packing in they wouldn't be able to exceed what the plan provides for...

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:34:32

I understand that, but I'm saying If you have a residential development that's filled up to the maximum of the residential development you can do, and the ground floor industrial is just really an afterthought and not really intended to be part of it really. And it's just going to sit vacant forever. But that's never really a focus point because it's always on the residential part of it.

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role3:34:57

I mean the obligation of the plan in our department would be to ensure that that would be designed in a manner that complies with the specific plan. Whether or not they leased it, you know there's a... we don't currently have any tools or teeth related to that or any penalty that we would impose for not having a leaseable space but was there a question further?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:35:16

Well I guess my point is a mixed use development ideally is thought together, mixed. It's presidential and it's commercial and they're working together as an ecosystem What I don't want to see is just a residential project and then there's just thrown in an afterthought of commercial. And it never ends up working, and it's just vacancy. We can have a whole street full of vacant

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed3:35:39

buildings.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:35:41

That's the only issue. I'm not sure how you protect against that. Is this government versus private business? And we really can't get too deep into that. But that's just a concern. I just want to throw it out there.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed3:35:56

I'll just say other than a requirement that there be some sort of active ground floor commercial uses as a portion of the project when the project is on High Street. That's as far as we kind of go to your point, Mayor. If they build that space, they're consistent with the zoning and then never release it. Right. It's a different kind of issue.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:36:19

I drive up and down a corridor near one of the second-rate universities in Los Angeles, right up and down Wilshire. And they have these big towers—not like USC which is premier in every way—they have these big towers. This is a terrible

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:36:35

location!

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:36:36

It's not up for debate. That's in segment four. They have these beautiful towers and they have these glassed-in lobbies that nobody can access, and is the way that we're writing this, would it allow for a building to come in Essentially glass the front, have it be a big empty lobby or sitting area that's only accessible to the residents there. Or do those spaces have to be allowed to be public spaces like outdoor barbecue areas that people could transgress in and out?

I don't know who I'm asking that question of but I ask that question if I'm allowed to in this segment. Probably not my concern a concern in the way that some of this is written and we're talking about is that these mixed-use to Mariners point They have to provide in building this building some sort of space. That has been we talked about it being commercial and But we also hear about being a lobby or an outdoor area. Could it be a walled-in lobby only available to the people in that building so it's not as free flowing for the corridor that is High Street?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed3:37:49

Yeah, I understand the question. I think you know the language we have requires that the high street frontage would could in retail restaurants offices building lobbies or residential amenities such as interior open spaces so the way the language is written a development reasonably sized residential development could occupy the ground floor with their gym only residents can access So when you walk down, that

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:38:16

is... It would be an enclosed and allowable private amenity or private open space if it was a barbershop.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed3:38:21

Yeah. And I think there's two kind of components that we're sort of trying to balance here. You know, we're thinking about where larger scale development could occur is really on the east side of High Street as we kind of highlighted early on. That's where you have the larger lots. We were really cautious about trying to require those developments to provide all retail or commercial on the ground floor because you know, the High Street Depot had just opened when we started this work and was trying to lease out like a quarter of High Street as it existed. You know, we really felt like we didn't want to sort of push even more retail or kind of force more retail on the east side of High Street at the expense of that kind of core of the district which is the High Street Depot development and then all the existing buildings and businesses on the north side of High Street from there.

So we're really trying to balance that and not try and push these requirements too hard. We could certainly opt out or we could reduce, eliminate the ability to use residential open space as a means of accomplishing that. Residential interior open space on the ground floor is a means of accomplishing that street activation but I think And our thinking, being able to go down East High Street at some point and maybe seeing like people who've just come home from work and they're on their treadmills or their stairmasters or whatever is better than nothing. Or all residential.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:39:45

I mean nothing's better than that so...

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed3:39:47

Yeah, so that was kind of our thinking. If

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:39:49

it

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed3:39:49

was

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:39:49

a gym down below then that would be a true mixed use. But if it was just a apartment only gym, that's a residential use. And I don't think that's a good fit for High Street.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed3:40:01

Yeah so I think this is... If we're going

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:40:03

to do mixed-use, that what I was saying, I want to do mixed use like real mixed use as in there's no need to build the housing if you can't get the commercial in there because my opinion is mixed use. That is just let's just build an apartment structure and put the gym in the front so it looks like it's a mixed use but in reality you can't go into it unless you live there.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:40:23

During the ad hoc discussion that we had on this, and this may be me misremembering or remembering too late. My understanding is it was open space so it was maintained by the residential facility but if its... Grass or playground equipment, whatever it's open to the public. Did I misunderstand that was the requirement?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed3:40:48

The language in the draft that's in front of you says interior open space so that would allow those interior recreation spaces that are key card access for building residents but we could certainly kind of strike that language out.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed3:41:03

I definitely think that I would want Tweak that language to either not allow 100% of it to be for that specific buildings use maybe require a minimum of 50% of the first floor space to be actual commercial leased space. And then the other 50% could potentially be amenities for I don't want 100% amenity. Well, I

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:41:30

don't think any of the commercial part can be exclusive use residential. It doesn't make any

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed3:41:36

sense. I understand some of it like if you look at the depot right now there is that little corner space that is like a lobby-ish area so I do understand wanting a small space like that But not an entire... That's a tiny, tiny fraction of it. Yeah exactly. Well no but right but there is still some so that's what I'm saying if there could potentially be a little bit of use for that but I definitely don't want to see the whole thing as an option.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:42:04

Right like the Depot project has it incorporated the correct way. My worry is that this could be a huge loophole and I don't want that to be a loophole.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed3:42:15

I think the solution, Mr. Mayor, to your loophole is this language. It's the text of active ground uses which falls under table 651 where it reads retail restaurants and or offices building lobbies or residential amenities such as interior open space. I think that for residential amenities such interior open space if we strike that whole phrase out that addresses your concern, Mr. Mayor? Because then at that point they're not allowed to produce you know put their resident-only gym on the ground floor of High Street or other similar kinds of facilities but the retail restaurants etc., the other things that you would want to see in High Street are still required.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:43:03

I believe that I am in full agreement and yet I can see a world where We've now layered both sides of the property, so we've restricted how much a new developer that's excited about Moorpark can do. They want to put a residence gym in the front. You know if that's every fifth Building, probably not taken away from Moorpark. If it's every building I think it's catastrophic.

And I don't know when and it really rings true the specific plan can't be too specific or no developer wants to come and help us achieve this vision. I don't have a solution to that. There is a counterpoint to allowing some additional use of these projects can come to be. I

not transcribed≈7s of audible speech the AI couldn’t make out▸ listen
UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:43:59

guess the question is, what is our vision? Mine for downtown as a working ecosystem of businesses and people. If it's the vision of we need to pack in as much housing as we can, that's a totally different thing. So I want to make sure it's the first one. And if that means that we sacrifice some of the packed-in housing, I have no problem with that.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed3:44:26

I don't think the amenities for the building is... Can be considered as housing. The housings are going to be on the above units, right? That's why I'm kind of more in favor of a mixed, you know, allow them at least they can either do 100% commercial as far as leases or restaurants shops whatever. Or maybe 30-70 mix like they can use 30 percent of the lower level not as housing but as amenities for the building Or open spaces and then 70% can be a minimum of 70%. I don't know. I'm just thinking of At least a little bit of both.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:45:13

A package room, a gym, all those things make sense on a ground floor?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed3:45:17

Correct.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:45:18

I don't know how to evaluate percentages.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed3:45:20

Yeah, I don't either

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:45:21

but...

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed3:45:23

So not an apartment at the bottom but yes maybe a lobby with a little gym and like you said a mailroom, a package room and then the rest has to be a certain amount

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed3:45:35

Yeah, I think two comments. And again, I'm not advocating one way or the other just from the development community. Typically what happens is you have to generate the rooftops to allow the business below to be successful and you also have to... The developer's also going to have to get funding for the project and that's much harder to do when there's... When that When they don't have the flexibility, they need to adjust how much commercial they have on the ground floor versus how many rooftops they have up above it.

I think from a staff perspective putting a limit on it...I totally understand where you're going and say okay it can be 30% lobby and or gym and or whatever and 70% whatever Then we end up getting into this sort of granular thing about how we have to determine then, okay well that's only if it's 10,000 square feet or more. Or if it's only what happens on Moorpark as opposed to High Street? How do you regulate that when you've got a single developer that's going to have two units above his ground floor? Now all of the sudden you say well that's gotta be 50% of this versus Where is staff going to determine where that line is as an implementation thing? Just something to be concerned about. I totally understand what you're trying to achieve, it's just the reality of typically what happens is the residential units will offset the cost of the commercial space down below.

So again, the more rooftops you need to make more viable commercial down below. But just something to think about. So we have to figure out, you know... We have to be able to fund it or nobody's going to come and the staff has to be able to implement it with it. You know again part of what we did in this specific plan is made so each district has a single page they look at those and go doo-doo-doo-doo. And now it's really okay well it's this one now it's this many square feet now Okay, it's this many percentage. What counts as that percentage? And it gets into a much more hard to implement and hard for the staff to really sort of determine whether you're consistent or not. Just something to think about.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:48:01

Right. It just got to be balanced out where it's affordable to build to make it work. If it's unaffordable to build and it's a terrible plan then that's a great way to do it then because we don't get either of them but...

3:48 – 3:5316 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed3:48:17

But maybe we do make a chart, you know under X and I understand it makes it. It's not as streamlined but I'm pretty I Don't want to say adamant but Pretty passionate about sure a larger building a larger project like the depot project. And I understand that right now we don't have anything that could be that large, but if you know over time someone were to accumulate five or six parcels down Moorpark Road That they wouldn't be able to... You know that we do have a set and maybe it's under 10 units Okay, you can do X above ten units It's something else

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:49:02

The other option is to say that you can't do anything on the ground floor, and we as council would have the right ability to overcome that. But then we just kind of defeat our purpose because now everything goes back to a developer agreement and we're trying to get out of that all together. And I guess I'd ask you guys when we talk about these ground floor spaces, do you care if it's a Doctor's office, a restaurant, an insurance office. Those guys are always the good guys. Do you want it to be shops that people can go into to stay activated? Or do you mind if it's a two-person office because I think those activate differently and sometimes they can be very complimentary but if that fills up with no retail shops at all might as well have the building gym in there doing the same thing.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed3:49:58

I mean, no. That's a really good question. Are we going to not have medical suites? You know, I don't...I think the way it's written, it does kind of specify... Does it not? Restaurants, shops and something like that. Not necessarily medical or office space. Retail

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed3:50:22

restaurants and or offices, building lobbies. And Alan's suggestion was just strike out the residential amenities such as interior open space. Just strike that and leave everything else in place.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:50:38

Yeah. I guess to answer that, we look at the depot project when that was going through. The point was we wanted to activate High Street and make it a walkable street and bring in businesses, restaurants and so on. If we had had that thing built up and it was just office buildings only then we wouldn't have a downtown. We would just have another version of every other part of the city.

But like I said earlier, you can't have an infinite amount of coffee shops and restaurants or else they're just going to be all vacant. So if I'm going to pick between three dead bodies of a coffee shop and then one viable one, I'd rather just have that be an office building because at least it's got life in it. It's got people in it and those people are going other places in the area so he just needs to work together.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed3:51:28

Yeah, if I could just speak to that real quickly. We're actually in another jurisdiction in Ventura County actually looking at taking a bunch of office buildings and completely removing them and putting in residential because there is no market whatsoever for office space.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:51:47

And then there's that too who uses office space?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed3:51:51

Well, I think...I mean, that's just you know who decides to lease those spaces.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed3:51:56

Yeah. But it would be... Smaller spaces are much more viable than larger ones these days.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:52:01

But definitely no insurance

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:52:03

people. That's fair, noted. I think we can all agree on that.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed3:52:09

So if we were to remove the residential... What was the verbiage? The residential uses. Could a developer, if they really wanted to have a space like that on the lower level, they would come back to us and request some type of amendment?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed3:52:27

Well, the reality is anything that's mixed use built into this plan because that was the direction that we received from you previously was that anything mixed use of any consequence is going to come to you anyway. So that gives you the opportunity on a case-by-case basis to make that argument.

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role3:52:45

That's true. I would just amplify that point by suggesting that, you know, the idea we're going to get a route of new mixed use buildings as great as that would be is probably not reality. We'll probably test this with maybe a renovation or an adaptive reuse. Maybe a mixed use building have a chance to ground truth that and then identify anything that we might want to change in return.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:53:05

But we won't get that if we make it so restrictive that no developer can come in and build

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role3:53:10

something. That is my concern, you know? For instance, if we were to put a mechanic in that said no ground floor residential at all, we likely would be facing some kind of state preemption for that level of project. You know, if we're potentially too inflexible in the regulations like water they'll flow to the path of least resistance.

3:53 – 4:0241 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:53:32

I had not considered the state coming in and saying, your plans are cute but we don't care. That's

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:53:37

what they always do.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:53:39

But that is a reality?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:53:40

Yeah.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:53:41

Is that not a reality? I don't even know what we're doing

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:53:43

sometimes.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:53:44

The state usually changes it all. There's a lot there.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed3:53:48

So are you...I'm sorry Tom were you done? No

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:53:52

go right ahead. I was going to start trying to move towards some sort of consensus.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed3:53:55

Yep but just for clarification are you suggesting then that we leave everything as it is, the verbiage?

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role3:54:03

I think the flexibility of what's outlined is the right level. I looked at High Street Depot's ratio between commercial and residential, and it's about 80-20. And I would think that that's a pretty commercial forward project for high street mixed use, right? So my recommendation would be to leave the setting the way it is and evaluate what comes. Because

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:54:26

if we left it that way... And a project came to us, and it says that it's allowable to have the bottom floor just be a giant lobby. And we said no, we're going to deny this project because we don't like how the bottom floor is a big giant lobby. Then aren't we going against the code we just put down? Are we opening us up for any legal problems there?

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role3:54:51

Meaning if we didn't have the 1500 square feet or 10%, whichever is less, they want to do an entire lobby on the ground floor? Right.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 11Proposed3:55:00

You might have some issues with Housing Accountability Act because you have a mixed-use project that includes residential. I'm sorry, I cannot hear you. Can you speak louder please? Thinking out loud in that scenario, you might have a Housing Accountability Act issue because you would have a mixed-use project that included residential and potentially it's about to be denied because of reasons that are not articulated in that statute which is safety concerns and things like that that are articulable.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:55:27

Right. So I'd rather make it more restrictive and open it up than have the other way around, right? Am I getting that right?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed3:55:36

Yeah

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:55:36

you're

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed3:55:37

getting that

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:55:37

right. Because I agree with what you were trying to say and we're kind of backing off on that because we thought we had the ability to work with that and make sure we weren't getting that loophole issue into it but it seems like if we put that in there we're basically just liable to it.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed3:55:53

Correct. You'd have to let them do what's in there?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:55:55

It's like zoning a project and saying you don't like the density.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed3:55:58

Okay.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:56:00

Repeat that again, Mr. Mayor. You're suggesting...

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:56:02

I said it once, it made sense, and I can't do it again.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:56:06

So what I was

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:56:06

saying

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:56:06

is that... Did she just say it's a segment three issue we don't have to talk about anymore? Yeah.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:56:11

So what Council Member Degato was saying, I was agreeing with, and then when he got Since we have another bite at it, when we're having a proposed mixed-use project, we're able to massage that and make sure we're getting the correct makeup. But my concern was that if we leave it as the downstairs floor could be all pretty much a lobby or just use for the residents in that building An applicant comes in and we say, hey, we would rather you constrict that down to a smaller amount and put shops in there like a real mixed use area.

We can't deny a project based off of that because it's already written as In compliance. The first time was much better.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed3:56:58

Can I ask a question? Is the concern about actually generating businesses in that location or is the concern about activating the ground floor so it's got people and it's pedestrian oriented or things like that? The reason I'm asking that is because there are things in here about About how that what the ground floor looks like, how much glazing there is and other sorts of things like that that activate that space as long as there's people on the other side of the window.

So if the thought process is more about you want to have places for mom-and-pop shops to be If that's the goal as opposed to the goal of being activating the street, those are two different things. And that's why I'm asking

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:57:46

what you... I like option C a whole lot which is all of the above and maybe they're not, maybe they are mutually exclusive. But I would ask the experts what if we got rid of the term interior so that it could put an amenity for the building but it could also be almost Front yard if you will to some of these buildings, so it could still be a you know picnic area and Swing or playground or barbecue pits but it's open to the street. So there's a little more accessibility I think I would be More willing to do that than to have the closed Windows with a gym on the other side does that

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed3:58:34

Just to go to that point. Councilman Means, there are other frontage types that allow those kind of things like arcades and offsets and other sorts of ways to animate the street that would allow for those kinds of things that you're talking about to happen. There are other frontage types as opposed to just a storefront type within the code that are allowable along those

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:59:02

Does that somehow make it pencil better for a developer if it's not a commercial front of some

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed3:59:11

sort? That depends. is if it's commercial leaseable space, there's rental income. If it's something that physically has to be built but then is not occupiable, that's something different. But if it something that generates more people to show up or as an amenity space for a residential project, a lobby or a gym or a WeWork space or all of those things are amenities that then make the rent and make the rental units more viable.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed3:59:45

I'm thinking more of a non-exclusive exterior space. Sure,

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed3:59:50

with arcades and things like that those things as again there are frontage types that we have say for example an arcade which is something that pedestrians can actually access but it's actually on private property that then That the general public has access to. There are those types of... The ability to have those types of space in

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed4:00:11

there. I know those are in there, and thank you. I'm just trying to... If we eliminate, if we've required it to be a commercial space then we've essentially eliminated that frontage space as an option right?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed4:00:23

No, not necessarily. It would depend on how the building is ultimately designed.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:00:27

I guess what I was getting at is that the commercial space would be something that would be available to residents in the area that live in that building, as well as people throughout the rest of the town and neighboring areas too. And one of the examples would be look at La Gris, Pilates place. If you live in that building, you can go right downstairs and you can go to that spot. But if you live in Westlake, you can come over to Moorpark and go to that spot too. And that helps us activate the area but it also brings in the installed base of people who are in that building that helps the commercial thrive without anyone being there. And so I think that's what I was trying to get. I wanted to see the commercial part of the residential work, to kind of power High Street more instead of just being an amenity for the people inside there because that just solves one part of that problem.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed4:01:17

Yeah, I completely understand but I can think of spaces we've actually done some in the City of Oxnard where the ground floor is the community space for the residential above. But then to your point that's also leased out to the Boys and Girls Club it's leased out to Boy Scouts it's used as a community space just by virtue of programming as opposed to it being something that says it has to be commercial by nature and leasable.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:01:51

Yeah, well that would be commercial though. It's rentable space so that would in my opinion be an event spot so...

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed4:01:57

Well yeah but that wasn't the intent of this space. The intent of this space was a community space, an amenity for the residential only. It just happens to be programmed to where it's used by the public So again, I'm looking at this to try to how do we get this to where that's something that staff can say yes. This complies if we say OK it's got to be commercial what in fact now or I don't want staff to be in a position where they have to make a judgment call on how a business or a building owner uses his building as opposed to you know You understand my concern, but I understand yours as well. Yeah.

4:02 – 4:0823 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed4:02:49

I'm torn. I don't know. Sure.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed4:02:54

I am passionate, I think was your word earlier. We use that a lot this meeting. Councilwoman Delgado. He has worn out and he's a different word now. I'm passionate that on page 706 we should take out the phrase both the general plan and the EVSP estimated that Moorpark experience retail sales leakage of approximately $600 million per year given that Moorpark neither wants nor is likely to attract dealers, big box retailers, large shopping malls and other sales tax generated in cities Other cities have pursued, period.

I firmly stand that we should take that out. Everything else you guys decide.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed4:03:31

I agree with that

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed4:03:32

certainly.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 11Proposed4:03:34

May I make a quick note just as you begin the decision part of your deliberations? At the end of the staff report there's about five recommended actions for the council to take in segment one just to direct your attention The actions that you're about to take potentially right now would have to do with item recommendation number two and number three. And I do want to note that because two members are absent right now, it will take a unanimous vote of the three of you to do whatever it is that you vote to do.

We need three affirmative votes no matter which segment we're in but there's only three

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed4:04:15

No pressure.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed4:04:17

So you guys got to agree with me about that paragraph? I agree with you about that paragraph. All right, good. I did my part, Mayor. You do the rest.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed4:04:27

So I guess my question is if we were to narrow it a little bit, remove that one piece of verbiage And it's coming to us anyway. If a developer wanted to, and they said listen this project will not work without us having 2,500 square feet of a gym and other amenities and conference space we can always say yes to that. We can always allow that as... So if we were to not allow amenity space But since we're seeing all these projects anyway, I mean it makes your project a developer would come in and say okay. We will put in four storefronts but we do want X amount of space to be an amenity.

We can agree to offer that as It's late now. You know what I mean? We can always agree to say yes to that on a per project basis. I know we're trying to get away from that, I get it. But I also don't want to allow 100% usage of

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UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed4:05:54

If I may add to that, Council Member, if we just strike that. We're not implicitly or we're not in writing prohibiting it. That's correct. So we're silent on it and that brings it to you. That brings it so we have an intent in here but then it's up to you to make the decision.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed4:06:14

Correct. So I'd rather it that way and us make the decision OK fine we can allow a little bit because this is a larger project. It doesn't all have to be

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed4:06:23

Or they're providing some other amenity. Or they're providing something else, exactly. Some other public benefit.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed4:06:28

Whatever the case may be.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:06:29

Yeah I'd want to see that. I

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed4:06:34

have a clarification. Let's say that we strike that and over the next one to three years the developer community comes to us and says man you guys would be a perfect place but this one item prohibits us from being able to do anything here. There's nothing that prohibits us from bringing this back in front of us and making a change as a city council at that time, right? No. So to your point if you want to be...if we because we've got to be unanimous want to be more restrictive now I love the idea that we strike it so it's not spoken to so it comes back to us It's clear about what the intent is And if future councils whether that be us or somebody else determines that that is what is preventing Moorpark from growing and thriving They can strike it at that time, but for now we we lean into the commercial and the activation

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:07:22

Yeah, so I want to see commercial. The only if commercial is viable. I don't want to see a vacant building with a thousand stores that are Just empty. And then a new developer coming in across the street and putting in another version of the same thing, because you can already see what's going to go on social media with that one. So I don't want that to happen. Yeah, I mean, I don' think we have the space for that. Not all developers care about what they're doing. Sure.

That's another issue. It is. So we have to be

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role4:07:55

protective

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:07:56

as well.

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role4:07:57

I apologize, Council. Would you mind clarifying the language you're considering striking in

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed4:08:01

the... Can you please? Yeah.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed4:08:04

It's going to be on page 6-16 of the plan, the staff report. So it's language that follows under table 651 where we read active ground floor uses.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed4:08:18

I have it on page 724 for those playing the home game.

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role4:08:21

So we would strike the entirety of that section?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed4:08:24

No, just after where it says after building lobbies.

4:08 – 4:1332 turns

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role4:08:33

Okay. Would we retain the 10% or 1500 square feet whichever is less?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed4:08:38

Yeah all we're taking out is our residential amenities such as interior open space. That's the only section.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed4:08:45

Well and building lobbies.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed4:08:47

Thank you. You want building lobbies as well? Building lobbies as well. Well

CommentDevelopment Director Gene BurseProposed · by introduction4:08:51

how big is

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed4:08:52

the lobby? Exactly.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed4:08:56

Right, which is why I don't want the whole thing being the lobby but we would want them to come back to

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed4:08:59

it. The reality from a developer's perspective they want the lobby as small as possible because it's not leasable space.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed4:09:06

Yeah well then fine. So you want that building lobby struck too, or they're just going to want it small? We think they're going to want it small so leave the building lobby in.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed4:09:21

The building lobby does not go to the commercial element that you guys were driving at. That said how do you have a multi-story building that doesn't have a lobby? You don't have to walk in somewhere to get to the staircase and pick up your mail.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed4:09:37

Well, I think to the point that was made earlier about the interior space it doesn't preclude a developer from presenting that. It just doesn't open the door for them to say we've met your code you have to approve the project but allows them to make their case. So if we strike... The language would now read, on lots of Bunning High Street the ground floor within 30 feet from the high street frontage line shall be dedicated to commercial uses such as retail restaurants and or offices and shall compose 10% or 1500 gross square feet of the ground floor per project site whichever is less.

So the language building lobbies in the interior

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed4:10:14

And it doesn't mean that the building lobby can't be in the back either, right?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed4:10:18

Because it's

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed4:10:19

30 feet. Or

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed4:10:19

on a side street or some other frontage. Understood.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed4:10:24

I'm okay with that. I am happier with that.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed4:10:29

Do we get so detailed on that one item that we left other discussion topics? I'm sure we did.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed4:10:34

I

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed4:10:34

mean,

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed4:10:35

Chris is still sitting in

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed4:10:36

the...

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:10:37

It's an important thing. We've got to get through this whole thing. I do not want to rush through this just because it's getting late and if we have to punt into another meeting, I'm fine doing that too but last thing I want to do is approve something at the last minute that's this big just because we're out of time.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed4:10:52

I'm tired of that. Totally agree. I do have a follow-up question. On the same page, 724 or 6-16 we're talking about in that table, the 6.5-1 table it talks about bed and breakfast ins being a use. When I was in Santa Barbara at that regional conference the Hotel Californian is a hotel that's made up of like three or four different buildings where one building has Their gym and then across the street has some more rooms than they have an event center with rooms.

Trying to envision all the possibilities for High Street to have some sort of in to function, they might need a couple different parcels at the conference center. Well now we're looking It's a building lobby, it'd be a hotel lobby as opposed to a residential building. Have we just prevented ourselves from having a hotel or bed and breakfast move into a spot like that because we said no building lobbies? Well I think that's not

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed4:11:54

mixed use, right? But that isn't getting back to the mayor's point. That's not an all-residential building then. Because then it's a commercial enterprise so then having a lobby that's got A concierge and all those other sorts of things would technically be considered part of the commercial use, which should be

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:12:14

allowable. But that whole section on this side is all mixed-use? That doesn't account for...

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed4:12:23

It could be mixed or...

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed4:12:25

Yeah, right it can. But mixed use can be in multiple buildings. Every building doesn't have to be mixed use. There is the ability to have vertical mixed use as well as horizontal mixed use which would allow a cluster of buildings or something like that to all have a common mixed use but the individual building itself isn't necessarily strictly commercial. So if it

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:12:46

was a hotel it wouldn't be a mixed-use building? Different use that's in...

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed4:12:54

A mixed-use district. But that's...

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed4:12:59

I think a hotel, for example, even a hotel that has a restaurant on site is generally considered or typically would be a hotel because the Restaurant. If it's like the restaurant where you get your breakfast in the morning from the hotel, that's an ancillary use to the primary use which is a hotel so I think from community development planning perspective they probably just call that a hotel. It wouldn't be a mixed-use project although from the way you would interact with it might be a mixed-use development.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:13:25

But that hotel could be in a mixed-use zone? Correct.

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role4:13:29

Yeah, again the mixed-use zone allows for commercial only development. The bed and breakfast example would be considered a residential use but the bed and breakfast has a definition in this section that's unique as well. Hotel would be commercial.

4:13 – 4:2248 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed4:13:46

I think for viability if we're looking for an operator to be able to come and do that sort of space, which we talked a lot about here. They may need different parcels to have a conference center and a gym in rooms in order to make the economics work so sounds like that passes.

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role4:14:06

And again the hotel would be coming forward as a development agreement so the particulars of how that all worked as one project could be refined.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed4:14:14

That's a great point. I stand by removing my paragraph. I don't know what you

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed4:14:20

guys are thinking. If I may just to kind of close the loop on that one, the paragraph on page under section 5-2 from what I said council member means if we left...if that paragraph were to read. Hold

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed4:14:34

on, I'll read along with you. I might read along with you. 5- 2, I had it marked somewhere. Oh, man. There we go.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed4:14:46

Yeah, go ahead. So as I understood it the language that begins both the general plan and then ends with other cities have pursued that would be the words to

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed4:14:59

delete? Spot on. And then

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed4:15:01

promoting

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed4:15:01

downtown is a regional attraction. I love

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed4:15:03

it. It would begin with this opportunity is important not only for local economy but also the city's fiscal health period promoting downtown as a regional attraction. That's the way

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed4:15:13

Exactly. I think

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed4:15:14

it

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed4:15:16

pinpoints what we're trying to do here

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed4:15:18

without...

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed4:15:20

And

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:15:21

then since you mentioned, I guess high sales tax generation on Princeton Road that section that was on the downtown specific plan before that's taken off that I believe was before, was it mixed use low? We're trying to store

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed4:15:42

mixed use medium.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:15:43

Mixed use medium? Yes. If mixed use medium were to be zoned to let's say like industrial flex or something different, does that trigger SB 330 since it implies there's housing on that land too?

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role4:15:57

We'd have to do an analysis. It depends on what the designation was in effect at a certain date but at the very least that would be a general plan amendment and a zoning amendment.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:16:07

Would we have to make up housing in a different spot if it was previously mixed use, even though it's never been housing mixed?

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role4:16:16

We would have to do an analysis. Again my read on SB 30 at this point in time is that there may be an effective date and we go by the designation on that date. That date could be 2018 which I'm not prepared with the research on today but we would want to have a more informed presentation about compliance Okay, so

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:16:35

would that be attached to anything tonight?

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role4:16:38

No. Well the recommendation this evening is to make... Are you proposing to re-designate that industrial property? I'm just

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:16:47

wondering. We mentioned high sales tax generation, car dealerships. It's high tech auto. The 7th and 6th is a big industrial huge lot and right now it's a trench shoring company. I'm just saying in the future if that was ever I would recommend just based on the relevance. I wouldn't want to limit ourselves because right now it isn't mixed-use obviously, it's an industrial site.

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role4:17:08

Well the current zoning is mixed use but based on the relevance to the downtown specific plan I'd recommend that that come back as a separate item. Changing that from mixed use which it currently is to industrial may also warrant some environmental analysis which we haven't conducted. And obviously an opportunity to discuss that with the property owner. Right,

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:17:27

yeah so mixed use was dropped on top of an already existing heavy industrial use as part of the general plan update. But to take it out and bring it back to heavy industrial use it will require environmental review?

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role4:17:41

Correct

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:17:41

because to get a mixed used

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role4:17:42

required environmental review when it was through the general plan update.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:17:46

Sure okay I'll pretend to understand that. Okay. Anything else? You want to run through this one more time just to see? Downtown.

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role4:18:02

If you'd like, I'll just have... I'm sorry. I'm checking my notes. You guys had kind of explained two potential changes that you might consider with a motion. The third would be the step-back mechanic over 28 feet. This segment would only allow us to make that effective on the high street designation. Segment three would be Moorpark Avenue but we could be prepared with that as well.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:18:24

Okay, I agree. Any issue with pepper trees? What about the pepper trees? I'm just going 5.1.7 is part of Accusal Segment 1 make sure we don't leave

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed4:18:38

any... I think that was just lights or something like that yeah.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed4:18:41

Lighting them.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed4:18:43

I like lighting the pepper trees. I don't think we should add anymore pepper trees.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed4:18:46

No more pepper trees, but the lights to the pepper trees are

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed4:18:49

okay. They are messy. Stand by that one too. Is that a different segment? Sorry. Yeah good segment no more pepper trees just historical ones crushing it.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:19:02

You cut those down you're going to get jumped. I might help too. Have we gone through everything? Tom, do you agree?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed4:19:18

I got my paragraph. I've been done for an hour. You got yours. I think it was an important discussion to have. I said a lot

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:19:24

of things. I don't know if I got what I wanted or knew what I wanted but I feel like we vetted through that enough.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed4:19:32

I think we've gotten ourselves to a place, and thank you to everybody that truly made this a discussion with great experts where we're protecting that activation. We're protecting what we're looking for and kind of waiting in seeing what happens. And

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed4:19:46

allowing opportunity for them to come back to us.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed4:19:48

While still respecting the public's input and the developers that are trying to help us realize this dream. I hope that's the intent anyway.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:19:58

It's just trying to make sure we get the good ideas. The bad ideas, you can just filter through them. Okay. Who wants to make a motion? Since you got that paragraph, do you want

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed4:20:12

me to do the kill? For the record whatever I move, we all need to be in agreement towards this. Are we all in

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:20:18

agreement right now? Looks like it's going to be good. No last minute switcheroos here.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed4:20:21

I believe there are three suggested changes as requested. Mr. Spondello, you have them captured. I know there's one paragraph for the economic development.

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role4:20:34

That's right. Squarely on that one. Please stand by and I'll provide something useful for us. All right, so the potential changes that you've discussed are incorporating the step-back mechanic contained in Moorpark Municipal Code 17.24.055 row M in the... Mark knows where it's at. Let me verify this. In the high street mixed use zone So we, sorry to restate. We would, I'm sorry I have to reference the zoning code and then a separate town code here so...

4:22 – 4:2737 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed4:22:20

It's dangerous to leave the three of us with our notes.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 11Proposed4:22:26

I

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed4:22:28

don't think your mic is on, so they might not be able to hear you at home.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 11Proposed4:22:31

I apologize. While Doug is getting that information ready, I think the way that we would craft this resolution would be the recommended action number two, adopting the resolution approving a general plan amendment, all the rest of it and then subject to the amendments that will be noted by Mr. Spondolo is how you would craft it. And then we would go on to the ordinance next on the zoning map update.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed4:23:00

Yes. I understood most of those words. Yes, adopting the ordinance with the changes and the other things you said perfectly.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed4:23:15

If I may, to jump in on helping Doug with the motion. The other two edits of the three that have been discussed by the council here is the deletion or editing of the language under section 5-2 as I read out early in the meeting?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed4:23:33

Yes, it's an important point given that we spent 45 minutes

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed4:23:37

So it's on the record. And then, on the other edit would follow the language under table 5-1 where it reads active ground floor uses and we will delete the words building lobbies or residential amenities such as interior open space. And

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by role4:23:59

may I clarify is that 6.5? 6-5-1

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed4:24:00

yeah sorry. And then if I may jump in on section 641, which is high street mixed use. It's the overall table we will insert into the laundry list of development standards A through W probably after F under building structure and height will insert a language related to step backs when adjacent to I would suggest only R1 And then whatever language Doug finds in the code is like that we're copying over. If I recall, it's a setback of 10 feet above 28 feet.

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role4:24:47

Right, so if adjacent to R1 figure 17.24.055B step back example adjacent residential lots would become applicable were there any modifications to the front yard or would that be side and rear

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed4:25:03

only? It would only be side and rear

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed4:25:08

yard.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed4:25:09

Actually rear

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed4:25:10

yard. Rear yard adjacent to abutting R1.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 2Proposed4:25:14

Yeah okay.

CommentDevelopment Director Gene BurseProposed · by introduction4:25:27

And

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role4:25:29

thank you. And then in addition, just a reminder that aside from the three things that have been recited, the resolution is already set up to provide me with the authority to make other erratas or clerical refinements, non-substantive photos necessary to better communicate what we're doing?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed4:25:44

Yes. Thank you. I don't know. A great resolution I came up with. So have I officially moved?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed4:25:54

Second.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:25:57

Motion and a second, we'll need a roll call vote.

Roll-call vote Passed 2–0 Motion and a second, we'll need a roll call
Show transcript
Council Member Means? Aye. Council Member Delgado? Aye.
UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by role4:26:04

Mayor Ingram? And the record will reflect that Councilmember Barrett

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 11Proposed4:26:14

is recused. Before Councilmember Barrett returns, we do have an ordinance. The introduction of the ordinance which is on your zone map amendment. You're going to have to get through one more motion which is part of segment 1.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:26:26

Mr. Barrett, when you come back can you bring some waters too? But he can't come back yet. Not yet.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 11Proposed4:26:31

So if I could direct you to page 101. And pizza, he's bringing stuff. That's the recommended action number three on page 101 of the staff report.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed4:26:38

Oh, I missed my page. You want me to move?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 11Proposed4:26:44

Move the staff recommendation. This is ordinance 535. Do

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:26:49

you read the ordinance out though?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 11Proposed4:26:50

I will, I make the motion and

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:26:53

then we'll

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 11Proposed4:26:53

bring it in. Or do you do it the other way around then?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:26:55

We've always... Okay so what we've done before was that would say would you like to introduce the motion and you'd...or the ordinance Item 3 of the recommendations. I will go ahead and read

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 11Proposed4:27:05

it. This is ordinance number 535,

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:27:09

an ordinance of

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed4:27:09

the City of Moorpark,

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 11Proposed4:27:11

California

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed4:27:12

approving Zoning Map Amendment CD-ZCA-2026-007.

not transcribed≈15s of audible speech the AI couldn’t make out▸ listen

4:27 – 4:3430 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 11Proposed4:27:29

for the downtown specific plan and determining that this action is consistent with the addendum to the previously certified environmental impact report, EIR, for general plan 2050. That's SCH number 2022050327. A motion would be in order to waive further reading, declare ordinance number 535 introduced for first reading and place this ordinance on the agenda for November...for a future council meeting for the purposes of providing a second reading and adoption of the ordinance.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:27:59

Okay, so moved.

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by role4:28:01

And second.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:28:02

The motion is second. We'll need a roll call please.

Roll-call vote Passed 3–0 motion is second. We'll need a roll call
Show transcript
Council Member Means? Aye. Council Member Delgado? Aye. Mayor Integran? Aye
UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by role4:28:10

And the record will reflect that Council Member Barrett is recused and Council Member Castro is absent.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed4:28:19

And who ordered the pizza for us? I assume

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed4:28:22

that was Council Member Barret or he shouldn't come

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed4:28:24

back.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:28:28

It's probably at a restaurant right now anyways.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed4:28:34

In and Out or Denny's?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed4:28:36

There was

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed4:28:39

only one

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 12Proposed4:28:41

water.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed4:28:45

There was a quick discussion, Council Member Barrett. Very frustrating.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed4:28:49

It was a very frustrating discussion. How

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed4:28:51

many holes are in the wall back there? I've been advised I cannot look at your facial expressions, so I'm going to look away.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 11Proposed4:29:05

On segment one matters. Okay.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed4:29:07

Right.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:29:08

Yeah, exactly right. A question for the order here since Dr. Castro is not here and that was recusal segment two can we take two and three at the same time?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 11Proposed4:29:17

You can discuss two and three at the same time. I'd recommend that when you get to the point where you're ready to adopt a resolution sort of stick to two separate ones since that's the way it's set up But at this point, as long as you don't revisit segment one discussions, you can speak freely about segments two and three.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:29:35

Okay. Yeah, two and three might blend together so I guess it'd be nice if we can do that but we'll separate them in terms of team actions. You can do that. Alright, so we've got through segment one. We'll move into recusal segments two and three. And as we just mentioned, we'll have to have separate action items on both of those. So I guess to kick it off let's begin segment two.

Mr. Barrett you've been sitting back there in silence so start us off.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed4:30:22

I'm so focused on what you didn't talk about that it's really hard for me right now to regroup. All right, so if we go down

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 11Proposed4:30:43

And actually, while you're flipping to the correct page if I could just also note for the record that for due process reasons we did ask Council Member Barrett to listen to the staff report and the public testimony that was received while he was in another room. So he's caught up as to the discussion that's occurred so far which I think you would need to know to be able to then continue on to segment two.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:31:07

Would you prefer we just go down the list here, starting with 4.2, East Gateway and just kind of work through it?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed4:31:19

Absolutely. So when we're looking at the East Gateway I know that there's a desire to have mixed use And I think when we're showing photos and giving direction in this document, it is just that. It's the ideas, right? It's the concepts. It not the final what's going to be here. But when we as a council have had previous discussions about things like a hotel You know, and putting some of those concepts in here or you know when we look at say image A and we're pointing to the corner lot at Charles and Spring. And we're showing mixed-use housing and we're showing public use and it's a photo of a park. I mean a park on that busy corner You know right right down the street from Magnolia doesn't seem to be what I would ever want there. I think there's there's a It doesn't change anything material in this plan If we put a parking lot there because that would provide parking to that segment of the street it doesn' I mean, a community garden for instance as a public use versus just kind of guiding what we maybe want in how it's shown.

And I know Mr. Spondello had said You might switch out some of the photos and things kind of based on some of that feedback. So I would like to suggest that those words and photos be reviewed as a part of that when you jump down to the number.

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role4:33:26

Yeah, I apologize. I just want to confer with my colleagues To the extent to which we have done community outreach related to the concepts shown on that site, whether that's truly a photo swap out or whether that's something more intentional.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed4:33:40

Yeah I would say that the suggestion that that be a public park, public open spaces in response to public feedback we've received on the plan. As a suggestion from the public, I will note as well that that entire corner is all city-owned property. So ultimately it was the City Council and community at large through your actions and discussion have the choice over what happens on that property.

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role4:34:04

So I don't intend not to implement your direction. I just want to make sure that it's implemented correctly and that would be a recommendation by the body to actually change that designation. It's not simply a photo swap out.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed4:34:17

Although I would offer a community garden, I think that might be consistent with what we heard from the public as opposed to a park. A developed park so we could probably swap that out with a community garden and simply say community open space and have it somewhat open-ended.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed4:34:32

So how would you want to award it then? Kids playing on that busy corner right, you know, and putting a park less like a block from another park again just doesn't seem consistent. It's not something I would plan for So I wouldn't pick a community garden to go there either necessarily, but I think the photo would better demonstrate a use than a park in my opinion.

4:35 – 4:4013 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:35:09

I think it's kind of like a flexible option space and shows mixed use housing, high street infill, public uses. I mean public uses could be a lot of different things.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed4:35:20

Absolutely so like I said this isn't a content change as much as I feel like We're trying to guide developers, we're trying to guide people as they look at this plan. As to what the future of High Street could be right? If we use the word hotel so for instance in D when we look at that and it says long term potential site for mixed-use housing. Right there's been a lot of conversation about what housing and retail and all these things, we haven't mentioned a hotel in this other than a segment. So to use the word hotel on a map potential right? I mean it's again it's potential right that's just kind of getting the idea out there in a visual way when someone flips through this oh yeah that could be interesting right maybe I want my business to be next to a hotel Maybe that sparks a conversation.

Maybe I know someone who's a hotel developer and we're going to work together, and we're gonna create something. To me, that's a little bit what this document is, right? It's a vision. And so I would switch that wording there as well, long-term potential site for hotel or hotel amenities or something of that type. Just to switch it so that it's not all just mixed use, mixed use, mixed use housing, housing, housing. Housing is everywhere. It's everywhere. So if by just changing some of the words in places Doesn't mean you couldn't put mixed use there. We're not changing that, we're not changing the designation but I think we make the document stronger by being a guide.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:37:05

Yeah, I want to put way more uses in there than we could choose from because I know it's city property that means there are strings attached to getting rid of that city property and to be prohibitive of certain things could get us into a potential issue.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed4:37:24

Correct. So if you envision say a hotel that stretched over the city property, there's city property across the street as well that could potentially connect and you could potentially even do a bridge over High Street. You'd have to acquire one of the homes that's there but that bridge could become the gateway arch right instead of an actual arch. You could have a bridge over High Street and now you have an architectural feature that connects say a hotel that spans the street And is kind of working in multiple things. And obviously we're not going to get that prescriptive in here as saying this is what it will be, because that's not what this document is about. But this document is here to guide and to dream a little bit right? What do we want it to be?

And so as we make some of those suggestions, so when we say gateway element like an arch or a bridge over the street connecting a hotel. We're not saying we're going to do that but we're saying hey think about it. Think about what's possible. This is downtown Moorpark and we want it to be special

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:38:36

I don't see where it says you can't do that. The gateway arch to me is not necessarily a metal gateway

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed4:38:42

arch, it's a thing above the street. It doesn't...I'm trying to change the language in here to guide people to think not just about what's in this one photo. To give different options. Does that make sense at all?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed4:38:57

Yeah, if I may interject on a couple of things. I think...I would suggest that it's image B. We could expand that and you can see there is some white space under the text and we could kind of trigger that or swap out that image to make kind of a downtown Moorpark sized hotel. And the reason I suggest image B is because where that is pointing to is kind of vague properties, whereas letter D is pointing specifically to a parking lot that you as a city own. And I think if you were to designate that as a hotel, you run into the various challenges that the mayor said and you've got limitations on how you can dispose of or utilize public lands. But I would suggest under D instead of saying potential site for mixed use housing, replace the word housing with development and then that keeps your options open.

I

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed4:39:51

like

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed4:39:51

that. I think also on the text of the paragraph there where it says right in the middle of the text it says moving west high street transitions to mixed use and commercial infill development I'd probably add potentially with hotel uses or a hotel or boutique hotels, something like that to include that language because that is... I would love to include it. ...something that's not included there and it's been part of many conversations.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed4:40:17

Great. Does everyone agree?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:40:24

Yeah.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed4:40:25

Okay. So we move

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:40:26

on. Residential neighborhood. Oh sorry, high street public realm. That is 4.5.

4:40 – 4:4722 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed4:40:46

Are you combining the segments?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:40:49

Yeah, I was just planning on going right through it like that but... Got it. Just so we don't forget anything. I want to skip over something that comes to bite us in the future. The good thing about these documents is it's supposed to be a cohesive plan for developing, but if we miss parts of it becomes...

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed4:41:15

So 4.3 would come after 4.2 right? You skipped to 4.5.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:41:24

Oh okay, I'm sorry. That's okay. All right, I was going through recusal segment two and then into three. But yeah we can just go in order that makes more sense okay so all right we're at 4.2 look at that one East Gateway let's go to 4.3 West Gateway

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed4:41:48

So I think the 1998 document had some interesting illustrations, and obviously it's a very different document. And you guys have talked a lot about that. But one of the illustrations that it has, and this is the redevelopment days so there was a lot of talk about facade changes in kind of those updates. But it talks about that Moorpark Professional Plaza, the building across the street from the packing house There.

To me, that's one of the most inconsistent buildings with our downtown and it's right in the heart of downtown. I would love to see that called out as a facade renovation and the facade renovation photo exists in the 1998 plan. They created something. I'm not saying it's perfect but it's there, right? And to call that out, I just feel like Otherwise we lose that image, right? And that goes away because people aren't going to probably go back to the 1998 plan.

And I think that would be a nice addition personally to talk about facades here in that way.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed4:43:04

So we're looking at section 4.3 correct?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed4:43:08

4. 3 and it would be an additional call out so say E

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed4:43:13

Right. And it's pointing to what's shown on the graphic, a gray box opposite of Moorpark Avenue from the old packing hall? That's correct. And so that would bring over the graphics to kind of an illustration of the facade renovation that was suggested in the 98 plan or something similar?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed4:43:31

Correct because we do talk about facades in here in some ways right but that's a particularly To me, a building that stands out as inconsistent with the look and feel of what the vision of downtown is. In my opinion again.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed4:43:50

Yeah I think that's agreeable with the majority of the council we can add that call

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed4:43:55

out.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed4:43:57

That makes sense

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed4:44:05

Anyone have any other thoughts on 4.3?

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role4:44:12

I'm sorry, which image of the 98 plan would we be looking to?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed4:44:17

There's a... In the 1998 plan there is a series of facade renovations.

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role4:44:24

Yeah, I apologize. I'm on that plan. Is there a page number or figure that I should reference in...? I do not have it printed out right in front of me. And perhaps I can share that with the council just to solidify your expectation.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed4:45:36

So it's the second to the last page of the plan, page 145. Again, I'm not saying it's a beautiful photo. No, I appreciate

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role4:45:55

that. My concern first off is I want to understand the recommendation that we're recommending to implement before we do that so I'm glad I found this. The other thing I think we need to just confer on is what this depicts is consistent with the designation for that property but yeah, we can take a look at that.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed4:46:14

If that's not the case, I think we could probably adapt that graphic. Sure. Update it to make it consistent with the plan.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed4:46:19

I think the idea here again as we look at these illustrations is to create a vision and part of that vision is updating some things that don't fit today and don't look as consistent with the plan. And so calling out something like this I think is an opportunity.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed4:46:43

Yeah, and as I understand it your intent council member is to. Not necessarily that specific building that specific design from the 98 plan per se is to say the idea of facade renovations is an important concept that needs to be expressed and that's a great place to start. It's a great place to show it yeah. And that's kind of the intent of what you're trying to communicate with the inclusion. Absolutely

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed4:47:05

because to me this is This is about sparking ideas and getting people thinking about what's possible, how we can make it better. To that point as we look on that same 4.4 section, we're looking at an enhanced and existing business facade right there under A. And we're showing something that I wouldn't put in downtown. What was that?

4:47 – 4:5230 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed4:47:36

Correct me if I'm wrong, Mr. Spandella but hasn't that particular image been swapped out from the time it went to print?

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role4:47:43

Yeah we've got a Coney Island style hot dog or pizza place with some red umbrellas with fringe. I think that's one that we can definitely find something more commensurate with the style we're going for.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed4:47:54

That would be great. Thank you.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:48:04

What about, so we're talking about facade and that Moorpark, what was that one called? Moorpark Professional Plaza. Okay you're talking about updating that facade or at least putting that in the plan then what about the central market that's right across the street with the dirt parking

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed4:48:24

lot? Absolutely similar. Because it could be a nice looking spot. It could absolutely be. That, too. And there's actually a rendering of that in the 1998 plan as well. So I'd like to add that into it too. So I

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role4:48:41

don't. If I may, I appreciate the enthusiasm for this. My preference would be to maybe have one or two examples of a facade renovation that's illustrative. The Moorpark Central Market example is as much as that building may need a facade renovation, I don' know that the concept in the 98 plan is the direction you'd like.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed4:48:59

Sure. Fair enough. You guys have anything on 4.4?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 12Proposed4:49:15

We had a lot on that one. 4.5? Oh wait, 4.4 Moorpark Avenue. Lost the whole street yeah so...

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:49:29

We discussed the setbacks on the mixed use. That was, since it was truncated we have to talk about that here too so same thing.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed4:49:39

So my concern with the setback here would be a I believe that the zoning on Flory just got upscaled based on your zoning change that you did. So those are no longer zoned as what they were. I thought

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed4:50:03

we were prevented from talking about that and... We

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role4:50:06

didn't talk

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:50:06

about that

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role4:50:07

one yet. Are we looking at 6.4?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:50:09

The residential R1, R2, R3 hasn't been

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed4:50:12

talked about yet. It's outside of the... it got cut outside of the downtown specific plan and you guys just passed an amendment to the general plan that is inconsistent with properties across and adjacent from it?

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role4:50:36

As part of the action on the signal. We're talking about the general plan amendment to the properties behind Moorpark Avenue? Correct. Where we removed them from the specific plan and designated them a neighborhood medium.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed4:50:52

Neighborhood medium and everything else around it is neighborhood low, so...

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 12Proposed4:51:01

Well wait here, hold on. I had that marked as... That's the case, and I missed that part.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed4:51:13

We could not talk about that last segment.

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role4:51:18

So the general plan amendment falls within Segment 1? Correct.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed4:51:26

So Segment 3 would be R1 and R2 which is within the downtown specific plan what you guys just approved was a General plan update.

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role4:51:40

The resolution approved a general plan amendment to bring properties that are currently in the specific plan outside and assign commensurate land use designations as part of segment one. Correct.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed4:51:52

But that was for High Street, wasn't

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role4:51:54

it? No. That was for the four or five properties that we were removing from the specific plan.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed4:52:00

Which one was those?

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role4:52:02

Am I allowed to go into it?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed4:52:04

Do you want me to leave?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 11Proposed4:52:08

So Mr. Spandello can repeat the decision you can't revisit the decision in terms of opening it back up again He can he can remind you what happened? It's a past action at this point I

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role4:52:25

The decision was to take certain portions of properties that were within the boundaries of the current specific downtown specific plan and designate them as non-downtown specific plan. In the case of the properties off Moorpark Avenue, they were behind that Moorpark Avenue frontage and actually facing the school. So the general plan designation was changed to match the current zoning designation.

4:53 – 5:0033 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed4:53:02

So if I'm looking at page 647 or 1-5,

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed4:53:07

It is not in this plan. What he's referring to was in the staff report, but it is not a part of the downtown specific plan because these are properties that were excluded from the downtown specific plan and then had to be amended. We had to amend the general plan in order for that to happen.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed4:53:26

Can we bring... I'm sure I'm following. ...this graphic up on the screen? Yeah, you'll see

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role4:53:31

the exhibit and the monitors in front of you hopefully. If we could get that onscreen, that'd be helpful as well.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed4:53:37

Yeah, because it's worth talking. The discussion is around the southern portion of the specific plan. There is a row of residential properties that front Flory Avenue and the Flory Academy between Los Angeles Avenue and I believe it's Third Street. They're separated from the properties fronting on the Moorpark Avenue by an alley. And that they're highlighted on the graphic on red. So those were removed from the existing, from the downtown specific plan boundaries.

Why was that done this way? Return to just the regular land use zoning conditions. And this was outlined at the beginning of the presentation is that these are properties that were residential properties that don't have any frontage onto Moorpark Avenue and don't make any sense to be part of the downtown specific plan when they belong to a residential neighborhood.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:54:34

Right, residential neighborhood with all of the same density that's now being up zoned.

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role4:54:39

There is no up zoning proposed with that action. The zoning is not being changed just the general plan designation. The zoning was adopted as part of the ordinance that was introduced.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:54:50

It's proposed here as medium density residential R2, which is around the area

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role4:54:56

existing.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:54:57

Well is that single-family

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role4:54:58

residential R1? The existing designation on those properties is medium density residential R2 Correct. We just changed the general plan designation to reflect it as not in the downtown plan. Okay,

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:55:15

so we didn't up zone that little tiny thing? That's correct.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed4:55:18

Correct.

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role4:55:18

Okay.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed4:55:19

Good all right. So it was up zoned during the general plan originally I guess? That would be my assumption yes. My concern with the setbacks like we were talking about is if you look at state density bonus, if we make it too difficult for people to develop they are going to use the tools that our state has given them to override and now none of this matters.

They'll do that anyways.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:55:54

It's

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed4:55:54

just

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:55:54

about making money. So why would they not? But why would they come in here and make something that's not going to just net out the biggest profit? Not everyone cares about this, is the problem.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed4:56:04

Not everyone

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:56:04

cares for sure. It was a goldmine to most developers and that's all they care about so we're at the mercy of

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed4:56:10

that. But we don't want to make We don't want to make it impossible and force them into a situation where That's the easy path, right? Versus if they can follow this and work with the city and work within our plan that's my concern with the rear setbacks also on Moorpark Avenue I believe there is a Is there a zero line setback in the back on Moorpark Avenue?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed4:56:48

I believe there are some of the properties on the west side of the property do have a zero line setback within our one district.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed4:56:56

On the west but...

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed4:56:57

The west side, but not on the east. It could be on portions of the east too. Yes. There are some occasions, some of the properties on Moorpark Avenue do have a rear yard setback with an R1 district, R1 zone property.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed4:57:20

Okay so...

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role4:57:23

I'm sorry we're looking at Moorpark Avenue mixed use 6.4.2? Is that correct?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed4:57:27

That's correct.

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role4:57:28

Okay so the commercial development in that zone would not require a rear yard setback however mixed use and residential developments would require a 10 foot rear yard

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed4:57:38

Okay, so if it does have a housing element and it's mixed use then it's going to have a ten foot rear yard setback which is going to address your concerns without the step on the building. Ten feet of three story building mixed with single story

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:57:56

house? Versus a five foot setback? I mean, the plan right now builds in that terracing for that reason. We're just taking that away. Essentially we're keeping the same exact zoning and mixed use, the height, all that. We'r ejust taking away any protection from anyone who lives in this area. That's the only problem I have with it. I don't prioritize over-densifying things at the expense of people who've lived here a long time

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed4:58:30

What about going to... So Moorpark Avenue is already... Remember right that it's 24 units per acre, right? Yeah the same No, it's 32 on High Street. Oh,

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed4:58:45

I'm sorry 20 is 24 The previous plan is 24 per acre and the current plan is okay 24 breaker It's the same exact thing minus to setbacks a change a little bit and the over 28 feet moving in 10 foot To step it That's what the previous plan has. The new plan has no regard to that, it's just flat boxy building is fine which I don't like. I mean if the idea is to protect this from someone trying to be a predator with the housing laws they're going to do that anyways.

I'm worried about that.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed4:59:24

To be fair, we did address that in our last conversation. Making sure that we weren't too granular and too specific and leaving some room for interpretation because we'd asked the question about when can the state come in and usurp our authority? And it may not be satisfactory but the layering of the setback Part of that consideration of not being too restrictive with the hope that we don't get somebody that builds a six-story building with no parking because Because we were too restrictive and it's within X feet of a high quality transit center So it may be a hope in a dream to your point. Mr. Mayor, but I feel like we did give that consideration We propose. Simply saying that I think that the what we have done does not necessarily preclude us or exposes anymore less than we had before.

5:00 – 5:0627 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:00:31

No step backs or anything on height. Right.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:00:37

Segment one, we already determined that. We did? Yeah, exactly.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:00:40

Right. So this is a different segment

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed5:00:43

now. This is a different street. It's a different area. We've

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:00:46

got the same exact...

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed5:00:47

Fair enough but

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:00:47

so you would... You can change it. We'd have a different opinion on this one as opposed to High Street. Fair enough. To have them be uniform but that's So would you prefer that it would match the designation we put forth on High Street, or would it be consistent with the current plan?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:01:06

I don't know that I do. I think 10 feet followed by a three-story building is not a whole lot of setback. The step back with the staircase thing or the wedding cake. We run the risk of having people that don't want to enact our vision, so I see... I think I'm in the same spot you guys are in like, I don't want to build up over somebody who's lived in that single family home right behind the building for 50 years and have them now staring at a three-story building. At the same time if we want progress up and down the downtown corridor, we've got to find that solution.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed5:01:47

And the three of you have already voted on it for one street. Do you agree that it should continue? Because then we can move on.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:01:55

I would stay consistent with what we had already done, but I do appreciate that it's a different street and it backs different types of housing and it has been treated differently up until now so I'm not sold on it. But without further discussion, I'd keep it consistent.

not transcribed≈8s of audible speech the AI couldn’t make out▸ listen
UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed5:02:14

Okay. Consistent, consistent. Let's move along. That's a change for later, I guess when we get to that section.

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role5:02:25

Sorry council member means by consistent would you mean imposing the same wedding cake standard that was? Yes. Thank you.

not transcribed≈7s of audible speech the AI couldn’t make out▸ listen
UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed5:02:37

While we're on 4.4, we have the Berkenshaw property and right above that is a bike lane. It's not shown very well on this plan here but I think as we look at circulation in downtown the ability for that to connect over to Park Lane is Something worthy of a conversation. And I see staff wanting to speak to that, maybe. Does

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:03:12

it already connect to Park Lane?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed5:03:14

It does. The bike lane does. Correct. As far as right now the vehicles are going behind Ralph's and it's a pretty constant flow of vehicles there in that area.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:03:34

So you're suggesting opening that up to vehicular traffic?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed5:03:39

I'm suggesting that, I think a connection there would be a great thing for vehicles. Also as we get into parking which isn't this section yet, there is no parking consideration on Moorpark Avenue and so opportunity of a street that maybe even had angled parking. And I don't know that there's the width for that with private property that's there, but there might be something worth considering.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:04:16

So

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed5:04:17

that

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:04:17

would

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed5:04:17

have to be part of whatever gets developed in that Crenshaw property? Correct. If I'm understanding correctly, that bike lane is not part of the private property.

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role5:04:31

Correct. The bikeway is a public right of way.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:04:34

So if that lane there were converted into a road and had some sort of angled parking on it, that would make the whole baseball complex not an embarrassment every weekend because it is impossible to get back there. Parking is a nightmare. And this is giant open space doing nothing for us. I would support looking into something like that, certainly. Keeping a connection for bikes to get through there and you still have a sidewalk too so...

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed5:05:05

Well, there also is additional parking in the back. And I don't actually know if that's city-owned parking or exactly what that is but behind the tractor supply store there's some parking back there that could again be potential...I know it's full on baseball days but it could potentially be utilized to access businesses for encouraging businesses onto Moorpark Avenue.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:05:35

Yeah, well this whole site is its own mixed use and this will probably go through a huge redevelopment.

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role5:05:44

Council members I would just urge that the portion of this discussion related to the downtown specific plan is really the frontage along Moorpark Avenue. The validity or the merits of the proposal to change the bikeway to a road would probably be better discussed as a separate item

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:06:03

Yeah, so we just get to work and shop property in the front section of it because the rear area isn't part of this. What you can get into that though.

5:06 – 5:1247 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed5:06:32

So moving along, 4.5? Well,

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:06:44

do you want to talk

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 12Proposed5:06:44

about

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:06:45

the Berkenshaw property? Yeah, Berkenshaw House is 5.1 point... Okay so we'll get to that one. So let's go to 4.4. Sorry. That's okay. Okay. 4.45 High

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 12Proposed5:06:54

Street Public Realm.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed5:07:09

I take it this would not be a time to talk about Magnolia Street?

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role5:07:14

We can go wherever you like,

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed5:07:14

sir. I mean... I believe it was mentioned before as well the opportunity for Magnolia Street to make connections allows for... Make connection with Charles would allow for The fire station have two points of entry

not transcribed≈8s of audible speech the AI couldn’t make out▸ listen
UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:07:45

We

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed5:07:45

discussed that but it was a

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:07:47

separate item correct

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 7Proposed5:07:50

Yes, mr. Mayor I mean you can there's generally been Discussion about desire about a thruway or some sort on Magnolia Park, but in regards to the specific Properties that may be involved related to that property. I would reserve it through our future discussion

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:08:10

We'll talk about

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:08:11

it.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:08:12

We'll get

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:08:12

there. 4.5, the decorative crosswalks, I assume that picture is illustrative and throughout time we will come up with something better. I also assume that the virtual gateway element that at one point was talked about being a water tower is which is in historical pictures. I appreciate that note that showed up in here, whoever did that thank you. But both of those things are illustrative and subject to future decisions.

Just making sure that I'm clear on it. Those were my comments on that page.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 12Proposed5:08:55

Okay anything to change on this? Any concerns?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:09:03

Move on. Residential neighborhood, 4.6.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed5:09:26

I just want some clarity on the corner lot on Charles Street. If it's designated mixed-use, does that allow us to preserve our flexibility for also using it for public or municipal uses?

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role5:09:45

That's right Municipal uses are exempt from the land use requirements, from what I remember from a prior meeting. Okay

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed5:09:55

and what about parking lot?

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role5:09:57

A parking lot would be permitted with a use permit but that in and of itself may not even be required if it were a municipal parking lot.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed5:10:04

Got it. And then as far as permit parking restrictions for Charles, would that be something that residents pay for or would that be just

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role5:10:18

I'm actually going to ask my friend, Mr. Kim, to assist me with that.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 19Proposed5:10:21

Okay. I've been waiting to speak! We have several residential parking permit programs throughout the city and none of them are fee-based. They're managed and administered by public works staff.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 15Proposed5:10:38

Thank you.

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by role5:10:49

If I may, Mr. Mayor? We are at not long before midnight and your council rules of procedure require a motion to be made if you want to continue past midnight.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 12Proposed5:11:05

I'll go all night, what's

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:11:08

everyone going

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:11:08

to do? It would be nice to get this completed. I guess it depends on the forecast of how much longer we think we're going to be talking through these points. I have a few items that will be coming up but if we keep taking 4.3 and taking 10 minutes and 4.4 and taking 10 minutes then you probably need to continue it so it would be a matter of...I don't have more than a handful of additional items. They might be hot topics

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed5:11:36

Yeah, I only have like four questions left. But

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:11:39

I

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed5:11:39

think

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed5:11:40

you might have the direction here so... I'm fine to continue but it's up to you guys. I have some things that might get more

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:11:48

serious as we go and some of these are just...

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:11:51

Sure you can always move to continue later, but if we were to I think I think we need a motion to continue past midnight That's all I would right to the chagrin of everybody.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:12:02

I'll make a motion to continue past

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:12:03

just jump over my motion See if you do that tomorrow and that's only four minutes away Do you second my motion or Chris's motion? Go ahead, Tom. No, no, no.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:12:13

Now I don't want

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:12:14

it. I motion to extend.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:12:15

I'll make a motion to go until Tom falls asleep here.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:12:19

I

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:12:19

motion to extend for nine minutes. We'll go past midnight and we'll decide how long do I go. All in favor? I don''t know if we just did. We made a motion to extend past midnight. We can stop. Second. It'd be the 12-01. We have to be at a different date. Correct?

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by role5:12:37

You're on a different day after 12-01,

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:12:38

but

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by role5:12:39

I've taken down the motion. The unanimous motion to

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:12:41

continue. Thank you. Thank you. So let's just go through this timeline here. So if we don't get this done today, if we don't get to this whole thing, what does that look like?

5:12 – 5:2143 turns

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role5:12:54

I think it depends on the reasons for which you don't get it done.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:12:57

Okay,

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role5:12:57

if it's 3

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:12:58

in the morning and we're still

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role5:13:00

going through it? If it stops and we continue the remainder that's a different discussion than having to refer something back to the planning commission or have really substantive changes so...

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:13:12

Okay now for a refer back to the Planning Commission would that be any of the. Well we're in it now so let's talk about the R1, R2 and R3. Some of these properties are being up zoned if we decide we don't want to up zone some properties going back to the Planning Commission okay so I think we'll be going back to the Planning Commission at least in my opinion.

agree with upzoning any of these properties that are already there. So the R2, the R1 going from 8 to 12? I don't

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed5:13:43

think R2 should exist

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed5:13:45

in this plan. So if I may kind of add some clarity on this Mr. Mayor. The discussion on the upzoning on the residential neighborhood is applicable only to the R1 properties Currently, the R1 properties are eight dwelling units an acre. In the specific plan there would be 12 units an acre. R2 is currently 24 units an acre and that stays. Those R2 and R3 would remain as they is. Let me make sure I'm not misspeaking on that.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:14:16

The property's

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:14:17

on First Street though. Yeah, I have the same concern. You're saying those are R2 right now? On First Street? Question mark? Oh

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed5:14:28

those, no I believe those are R2 ones on 1st Street south of the railroad tracks. Those I believe are R2 today.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:14:36

Are they? And then the ones directly behind High Street next to the land that we're talking about parking lot community garden etc along Charles there those are R-2 today as well? Correct yeah

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role5:14:50

Council members, I apologize. The existing zoning that I'm looking at south of the tracks on 2nd Street show those homes as R1. I

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed5:14:58

stand corrected then.

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role5:14:59

But the Charles Street lots are currently R2

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:15:03

Okay, so the one between 1st Street and the train tracks that you're saying is R1 currently. Right? Correct. But we're proposing to bring that to R2? Correct. And the R1 of the 98 plan is 8 units per acre but R1 for this one is 12?

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role5:15:22

The R1 is actually because the 98 plan is an overlay, the R1 is actually a function of our zoning code which is currently eight units per acre. And the proposed is 12.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed5:15:33

Can I speak to that for a second? Yeah. A little bit. The properties directly between the transit and First Street, that's a very small section of single family homes but there is a shadow density there that is significantly higher than the eight units to the acre would be. You know, pretty much the majority of those garages and things like that are actually occupied. There's also multiple buildings there or whether they're permitted or not is at this point so it was almost more like we're reflecting what's existing there as opposed to...

So technically it would be considered upzoning but the reality is it's probably higher density than that as it currently exists There are also throughout the city many RPD areas that are predominantly single family. Again, throughout the majority of the city that under an RPD are significantly higher than eight units to the acre as well. I could say Mirabello for example is 12 units to the acre by itself. So there are properties throughout the city so to just characterize it as, you know, we're automatically going to make it so everything's different is not necessarily what the actual reality on the ground is. I would suggest that even the areas in Charles Street that now are allowed 12 units per acre there's a lot of shadow density there as well.

And it's almost more like this is reflecting existing conditions more than it is providing an opportunity to go farther.

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role5:17:21

And also just to clarify, not in an effort to pile on but these are also very small lots. Right? So the delta between an 8 units per acre and a 12 units per acre on a very small lot is going to be fractional. It likely will not result in significant density increase at that scale.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:17:37

Do we happen to know what, it looks like they're pretty consistent most of them are. Do we happen to know what the percentage of an acre each of those lots might be? Yes just a moment. What a horrible question I did not prepare you for Mr. Spondella my apologies. Good resources

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role5:17:51

let

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:17:51

me see.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed5:17:52

The majority of lots, the regular residential lots, the ones that are sort of consistent size wise there 50 by 100 so they're 5,000 square foot lots There are quite a few of them that are less than that.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:18:06

The fraction was what I was looking for, thank you sir. So like an eighth of an acre? So if it's eight to an acre... Exactly. It's one house. Yeah. How do the ADU rules allowed in California impact that?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed5:18:19

That's an excellent question because on each one of those lots you could technically by right put four units on it.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:18:26

If we were to change that or if it was to be up zoned then they could put even more

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed5:18:32

Not necessarily. If it's not, it's still considered R1 property so that would be SB9 then. But

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:18:41

if we changed it to R2 it would still be R1 property? I'm sorry, I didn't follow that. If we were to ups on this so there was more units available couldn't they by right put more units on that property?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed5:18:56

Yeah. If it's an R1 property and we're going from eight units to an acre, to 12 units to the acre, somebody could still invoke SB9 and be able to put an ADU on there by right without issues or JADU as well. And now all of a sudden you've got three units on your particular property.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:19:15

Right? So why change it then if that's the case? Why not just leave it at R1

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed5:19:19

I think it was, at least from my perspective, it was more to make it consistent with reality actually is in the area.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:19:29

But... Yeah, I see that but I guess if you start combining lots things become very different.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed5:19:38

Easier

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:19:39

to put in more density.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed5:19:40

And to speak to that which would also be consistent with the lots that are on Moorpark on the east side of Moorpark Those lots are so small from a developer's perspective to get anything, to make a meaningful project out of it. It's not like you're going to take two lots and do something. You're going to have to get 10 lots and do something. So there's less likelihood of a lot combination, a bunch of combined lots.

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role5:20:09

Council members, using one of the lots that came in in that stretch which was 7500 square feet which was actually rather large I believe the law requires us to round up, so it would be two or three units. But ADUs would be preferable development because those don't require off-street parking to be constructed and in fact you can convert garages Non-edu residences they would each require a two car garage So I mean just based on the size and scale of the lots that we're dealing with I'm not on my own concern that we would have all of a sudden two and three story apartment buildings erected overnight.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed5:20:54

I thought we couldn't require parking within a half mile. I apologize

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role5:20:58

That's correct, so yeah within half a mile of the transit. That's right

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed5:21:03

also when I look at the general plan document and I look in like a at these areas. It just says SPD for, you know, specific plan downtown. So where are you getting the existing zoning from?

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role5:21:20

Because the general plan has a different designation than the zoning so the property has existing zoning...

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed5:21:27

Yeah.

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role5:21:29

Okay.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed5:21:29

In the zoning network.

5:21 – 5:2622 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:21:39

So if these areas are, if we look at north of Charles Street. That R2 designation. If we're trying to do that to take account of what's actually there, then why is the rest of it staying at R1 when it's pretty much the same development everywhere? You mean down the rest of Charles to the west? Yeah. Why is it just that one section there and not everything else? We're not

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed5:22:07

changing

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:22:07

this, right? No. This is all the existing domain.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:22:12

I don't think from what I understand it From what? I just heard That section is already our to and I think your question is why wouldn't we take the r1 to r2 if our intention was to have R2 Directly behind High Street. Is that right? No, I'm sorry Yeah,

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:22:29

I forgot that that was already that was already our team

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:22:32

But I think it's a valid question to ponder because we got the time now we got 23 hours in 54 minutes but Why is that R2 and the rest of Charles Street on that side, R1? I'm not saying we should change it but I think we should be intentional. And I don't know if you guys...it's the way it was so we'll

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed5:22:54

have to... Yeah exactly. North of High Street, the R1, R2, R3 composition, that quilt there, that is reflective of the existing zoning map today. How that came to be, that's a question but we just carried that forward.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:23:11

If we're looking at the Renaissance numbers in the next housing cycle, if we upzone this now, we don't get any credit for that. Right?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed5:23:21

Jonathan do you want to answer that better than I do? No. Yeah. I'm not an expert on

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role5:23:32

that. No, this is not my understanding.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 20Proposed5:23:34

You don't have to up-zone to get credit. You can get credit for housing sites that already have residential capacity on them as long as you demonstrate that there's their feasibility to meet the RHNA requirements.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:23:52

Right, so wouldn't it be better to do that in the next housing cycle?

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role5:23:56

I don't want to get too far off of the question that we're looking at. The general plan we created with housing capacity primarily in the mixed use district zones... I don't want to put it out there now that I said it, but I'm not too worried that we're going to have a big struggle with the next RHNA depending on the methodology. I think it's really just a question of what is, you know, as we're recommending more appropriate to what's actually on the ground and more reflective of that. That helps us with RHNA potentially. It helps us just tell the story of what's in the community and apply appropriate development standards.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed5:24:30

And if I may on this question of should there be R1 on Charles Street? I think it's a legitimate question. You know, we should also note that what we analyzed in the addendum to the CEQA document, the EIR that was prepared for the 2025-2050 general plan assumes this density applied to these sites. So if you were to up sound those R1 sites tonight then it may be outside the bounds of what was analyzed with the general plan and therefore with the CEQA document prepared for this adoption tonight. So personally I think it probably ended up being de minimis because it's not a lot of development potential, but it does change the project description.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:25:12

I was trying to get us to talk about are we being intentional? Do we want R1 next to R2? Do we want to make all of it R1? I certainly don't want to kick it back through CEQA if we don't have to.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed5:25:26

That's a legitimate question. Council Member Means, we debated this quite a bit and as we were kind of producing this map, we ended up landing on the map that exists today because of the housing element, because of the CEQA, because of the general plan and we're trying to live under all those umbrellas.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:25:41

Remind me from the conversation that we had before if If there is a development on High Street and they end up acquiring the property behind them that's zoned differently, they're going to enjoy the benefits of the high street

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed5:25:57

zoning. Is that correct? They'll enjoy the benefits of the development standards associated with high street but they don't get to increase the density so... If the property on Charles Street they acquire allows for a total of 16 units and on High Street it's 48 units, if they combine those that total density doesn't go up. They might be able to distribute it differently across those two properties but they don't get to increase the density.

So that is kind of an important distinction that's only in the realm of the development standards that they get some flexibility. But they

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:26:32

could

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed5:26:32

distribute those

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:26:33

units. They've just crossed a boundary, but they could distribute those units

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed5:26:37

throughout the joint project? Correct. But the total density of those two sites combined cannot be increased as if they were developed separately. Thank you

5:26 – 5:3236 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:26:54

All right, so I guess the question still stands. Do we keep that as R2 is there or do we put it as R1 even though it doesn't match what it is currently?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:27:09

I had an opinion on that, and in finding out the reality is that they're already being used for multiple dwellings. I guess I have less of a strong opinion. Dr. Jekyll if you don't mind me asking, you had mentioned that those shadow density, I think is what you were referring to it as. Does that continue throughout the community or is it just those 10, 11, 12 parcels in your estimation?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed5:27:38

If you're talking about the property directly north of...

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:27:42

I'm sorry. I'm back to the 1st Street property. I understand you can't see where I'm pointing.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed5:27:46

Yeah, it's not all of them but it's the majority of them.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:27:51

Of those 11 or 12 properties? That's correct. But what about those surrounding down 2nd Street and Dorothy Avenue?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed5:27:57

There's much less of that going on across the street from there on the south side of 1st.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:28:02

Is there a particular reason why you think that those units are the ones that are getting the shadow density?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed5:28:07

They've been there since I've been here, and that's 30 years. So

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:28:11

they're new?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed5:28:12

Yeah.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:28:14

Thank you sir.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed5:28:20

And just one more thing. In our community outreach, there was a strong preference for anything north of Charles Street to sort of remain intact and so this is part of maintaining the desire of the community as well. And again that relates back to the whole thing about parking permits and all that other stuff We did get a lot of input from that neighborhood. And at least I believe it was the... Yeah, one of the meetings.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:28:55

Given the additional information, I'm off of my remaining point that it's important to make the change. And I think that as suggested is probably fine, not probably fine, I think as suggested is fine as demonstrated before we move too far beyond this discussion there's probably a discussion we had about the Charles Street commerce overlay So I don't mean to be moving us beyond, but as I'm staring at this map, this figure six foot... Yeah.

That would be the next thing that I'd like to chat about, but I think we should get consensus on the R1 and R2 off of First Street before we move on.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed5:29:33

That's fine with me. To leave it?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:29:36

I mean, I would say when in doubt just keep it R1 and not up-zone stuff. I don't understand. If it doesn't make any difference, why wouldn't you just keep the same thing? So, I would keep it the same thing.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:29:48

Do not have a strong opinion. I'm happy to agree to that.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed5:29:53

Same.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:29:54

There you go. We went from a hung jury for an agreement. You're making the motion at the end of this, Mayor. Got it. Can we talk about the Charles Street Commerce Overlay? Are

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed5:30:08

we skipping over five? Oh,

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:30:09

I'm sorry. Do

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:30:11

you want to go into more controversial sections first and see where that's going to go or...

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:30:16

We're skipping

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:30:16

all

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:30:16

around. I

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:30:17

did not mean to skip

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:30:18

around. If

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:30:19

we go with an order it's going to take... We're going to be here until four in the morning which we have to get this whole thing done anyways whether today or another time but For the sake of time, if we're still able to spend some time on this right now. I was jumping ahead. We could go over the bigger juicy ones that might be arguments to wake us up a little bit.

So go ahead

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:30:38

Mr. Meehan. I was jumping ahead to 6.4. I'm fine with continuing on. I am also fine with saying no comment on this item and moving quickly through

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed5:30:47

them.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed5:30:50

Go ahead.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed5:30:50

Do the trace overlay.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:30:51

Was it?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 5Proposed5:30:53

And

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed5:30:54

I said to the Charles overlay

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:30:55

if you want me to jump to six point four point nine. In the staff report it was indicated that I went back and watched the planning commission so they suggested pulling this out of the plan, I'm not opposed to pulling it out of the plan at all but There's 11 or 12 properties in that area, and one of the property owners expressed to one of the planning commissioners that they didn't want a change towards commercial. They wanted to leave it how it is.

It's not representative of the whole group. Additional outreach was not done. I don't want to limit those property owners from doing what they're doing or doing what they want to do There's a dental office there. At some point, we'll talk about the civic plan or the Civic Center possibilities. I could see a reason why there'd be commercial there depending on what we do with the civic but given that we have one data point, that data point says he would like for that Charles Street community overlay to be taken out completely. I am in support of the suggestion to remove it.

5:32 – 5:3722 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed5:32:06

I was just wondering, have those residents been notified now of any revised plans or because we removed it they haven't... nothing's been updated for

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role5:32:17

them? Correct. We didn't provide any additional or targeted noticing to them and frankly after considering the input that the commission provided and reflectings, we recommend the same removing the overlay.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:32:30

It was just decided upon. I'm fine removing it. Let's move

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role5:32:35

on. Commissioners, may I revisit one? I'm sorry council members. I'd like to revisit one item with you as it relates to the Charles Street properties. We've concluded that that would represent a substantive change that would have to return to the planning commission if it were down zoned... well, if the recommendation were changed from R2 to R1. Which one? Charles Street? Correct.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 12Proposed5:32:54

That was currently R1 I thought that was

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed5:32:58

already on. I thought that was 1st Street, that we were talking about?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:33:00

We were talking about 1st Street.

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role5:33:02

Oh no, you're correct for the 1st Street. Sorry, got the street wrong.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:33:05

So 1st Street as I understand is R1 right now. The plan would change it to R2. We're saying keep it R1 and you're saying by doing that we have to send it back to the Planning Commission.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 11Proposed5:33:17

I believe, so this one's right on the line. The rule on taking something back that's a substantial change to the planning commission is whether the planning commission discussed it enough to give you their opinion specifically on that item and I mean, I think it's a wobbler. I think you're right on the line on that one because Before this entire specific plan was begun, it had R1 and the specific plan changes into R2. To my knowledge, the planning commission didn't discuss it in depth at their meeting and that would be the reason why I would go back so that you would get a recommendation about what they think about it just like you did with the overlay discussion.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:34:02

You are the attorney. I am definitely not and I don't want to be. They did have a chance to look at the entirety of

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 11Proposed5:34:09

it. They did look at the entirety of it. They made a comment. They didn't dwell on it, they didn't have a discussion on this particular piece. I apologize that there's not a ton of case law on this but the two or three cases I looked at to prepare for this meeting had the analysis focus on whether the advisory body Discussed the change and then you could take or leave the change as a council but the question was really And there's a government code section that kind of talks about the advisory body making, you know The council making a substantial change to an item that the advisory body did not advise yet on. So this is you getting their opinion about what they think about this particular issue and then bringing it back up. I do think it's a wobbler, but I don't have a lot of case law to look at to make that recommendation, but I think we're basically at that line where where I whispered to Doug that maybe we need to take this one back.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:35:15

I appreciate it and there's a reason you're here and we have nothing but respect for that. I stumble with the rationale because we are literally not changing something instead of changing, and when I think about all of the other discussions that we had about segment 1, we changed...I know I suggested we change a paragraph and I just watched the planning commission meeting this afternoon all over again and they didn't mention that at all So any changes we're making, where's the difference between this non-change that the Planning Commission didn't endorse and the other changes or non-changes that the Planning Commission didn't endorse? And I'm sorry to be putting you on the spot.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 11Proposed5:35:56

No, you're fine. I think it's important because I've thought about it a lot too. There's a government code provision that talks about this process of going up to council from the planning commission and then potentially going back down to your advisory body when there are substantial changes made at the council level that was not deliberated upon by the advisory.

So I do think that this one's on the line. I think it's a little bit of wobbler. I'm willing to withhold my final judgment based on everything else the council discusses because it may be that we're going back to the commission anyways and then you'll have that out there, but on this one I have my eye on it enough that I...

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:36:37

Yeah with that guidance I think we kick the whole thing back to the planning commission and we have them go line in verse so they've talked about each and every one because I have a sneaking suspicion that we are about to go into three or four other Topics that are going to be material that weren't talked about at Planning Commission.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:36:53

If it was only, if this is the only one we could go back and revisit if it's a material change in that little area that would warrant that big of a circle. I also

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:37:03

think it's incredibly... If we

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:37:04

keep going and find one more thing that's a bigger thing then this conversation is already out the door anyway so let's just keep going on this

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:37:12

The only other thing, comment there is I think that's important to recognize. I think it's incredibly relevant and I think that moving forward we need to be asking our boards and our commissions to get into the details and discuss these things before it comes to us because we have recommendations that are 12 minute meetings from Parks and Rec and Arts and then we can't make a change to them so perhaps it's a different topic but we need to be doing things differently to obey I think.

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role5:37:41

I appreciate that. I think it was a good discussion and prompt for us. We're going to be mindful of any additional things that come through, and then we'll just have a couple moments at the end maybe to consider where things land.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:37:51

It's that close to going home, Doug? That close,

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role5:37:53

maybe.

5:37 – 5:4338 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:37:58

What was the next one you want to bring up? So bring up the big ones right now.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:38:05

Yeah, we might as well bring up any big ones that might be sitting

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed5:38:10

I've got 5.1, the vertical gateway.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:38:13

Yeah?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 7Proposed5:38:14

Before Council moves on, just a point of clarification for the Charles Street overlay. Was there consensus to remove it? No. Yes,

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:38:21

consensus to remove it. And that was discussed at Planning Commission at length. Right and then you could take your argument as to Planning Commission's recommendation.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 3Proposed5:38:25

It's an important thing but

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:38:34

you just don't want to think about it. I think we all end up concurring with them.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed5:38:39

Regarding the vertical gateway, it's described as four more stories with possibility of leasing it for cell equipment. A, that seems taller than anything else that we're allowing or I don't know if four stories equates to 40 feet but it sounds like it's more than that.

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role5:38:59

5.1.3? The vertical?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:39:05

As opposed to the arch, what had previously been referenced as the water tower.

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role5:39:09

Sorry could you restate the question

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed5:39:10

again? Yes so right now it's described as four or more stories which with also possibly at least for cell equipment. So that seems just taller than anything else that we have. I know we have three stories and 40 feet so I don't know why all of a sudden we'd have this archway that's 55. So it just seems very out of

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed5:39:31

place. Absolutely good question, good call. That's by design, because it is intended to be a vertical icon that marks High Street and Moorpark Avenue. Not exactly the center of downtown but one of the major intersections. If it stood at three stories and matched the height of the other buildings in the city or in the downtown, it wouldn't stand out when you're a block away. And the idea is that this is an icon you could see from the east end of High Street and maybe even from Los Angeles Avenue. You'd see something that peaks above the tree line And you can point to it and say, that's where Denton Moorpark is.

Now the question about the cell towers is really just trying to think like what's a revenue source you can bring to the table that pays for the construction of this thing? And because it would be on public land as the director indicated, you'd be exempt from your own rules to build that. For the record there was a water

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:40:27

tower.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed5:40:29

Where was it?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:40:31

You have to look at the picture that was referenced from 19... I don't think we need to go into that tonight. It's true.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:40:38

It wasn't that location though, it was a

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:40:40

different story. That's fair but

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:40:41

I think the cell

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:40:42

tower

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:40:42

is the... I got one. I want to bring up the...

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:40:47

Did you get your point? You're comfortable with it? Okay.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:40:51

Transit adjacent. So that is 6.4.3. Okay.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed5:41:04

I personally prefer the industrial flex that was there before in the existing zoning. Yes,

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:41:12

yeah because we've identified this area as parking but then we're now identifying it as a place to put all housing without any parking Now we have two parking problems. I don't see any need to do that. I know VCTC owns that and they could do that, but the last thing I want to do is encourage them to do that.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed5:41:36

If I may speak to that. So with the possibility that VCTC could do that, the intent of establishing a zoning that establishes those parameters for residential was so that you do have some zoning and development standards by which you can judge what VCTC brings to table should they do that? Obviously, they own that property. They get to decide what they might do with it and then there is to the fronting on the Spring Road There was there was an additional property that got that designation That's currently a kind of like industrial facility all time I had a pretty much reflects

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:42:12

Okay, so but if it's next to the train station in BCTC owns it They can pretty much go as high as they want with density, right? Why would we even need to designate that?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed5:42:25

Our thinking was that you're establishing the city's intentions about what you would like to see should development come. I'd

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:42:35

like to see nothing. Nothing. Parking. Should development come.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed5:42:39

As you know, if they will be able to trump you should they walk in the door with something. If you don't have standards on the books to say what your expectations are...

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:42:50

Will those standards even matter when the state just allowed us to walk right through?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed5:42:54

That's a good question. Why

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:42:56

are we even doing half of the things we're doing? Because I feel like we don't have any power to...

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed5:43:00

Yeah, but it is important, I think, to sort of state your intentions and your expectations in the baseline. It does give you a position to have a conversation with VCTC should they decide to develop that parking lot residential which is a big if, I would have to say.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:43:15

Okay, but the land to the east of it though, that's industrial right now Correct. And what was the intention of turning that into residential?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed5:43:25

Really just to be consistent with the zoning across all the properties on the south side of the railroad tracks.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:43:31

I'd rather it be inconsistent.

5:43 – 5:4925 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed5:43:36

Yeah, I definitely don't want housing there.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed5:43:47

But do we take the risk in

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:43:49

Well this is not, okay so regardless of whatever this is. If we look at this right now, this is a separate piece. So we can change that piece all we want and the state can come in and build whatever nightmare they want here but at that point if they want to do that it doesn't really matter what we have for our general plan or what plan we have here. It's just going to be what it's going to be. So I'd rather talk about all the uses of that spot that aren't housing I won't give anyone the wrong idea.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed5:44:22

Something else to consider though, getting back to the item about if we provide development standards for that then if they were to come in with a project that say they wanted to do affordable housing or whatever but if they wanted to do housing there you have development standards so that then they would have to argue their way out of or use density bonuses to remove portions But you'd still end up getting a much better product than if you just walked away from it and they built something else.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:44:57

Okay, then instead of saying 32 can we bring that down to 8? Why would we say 32? They're gonna just walk their way through it anyways right so I don't understand the exercise

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed5:45:14

Well, I think you want to speak to this gag?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed5:45:23

The question on 32 was just being consistent with what was across the railroad tracks. Like I said there was a real sense of just trying to be like consistent and we did even kind of generate us sort of a little computer model kind of as we mocked up and tried to figure out the development standards what would be appropriate. What we came up with is very much the High Street Depot just on the other side of the tracks That's like what the development standards we drafted would yield, provided you're not layering on some sort of state density bonuses to break through those barriers.

And as I said, the thought was to provide some sort of standard. So if VTCC or VCTC was to come to the table with a development project like they decide to invest across-the-board in all their properties they own, you do have some development standards by which you can have a conversation with them about what they're intending to do. Whereas as Chuck has said, in the absence of having any standards, they just propose what

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:46:25

My guess is this would be a material change that the Planning Commission didn't talk about.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:46:29

The east side of that would be, right?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed5:46:32

Yeah I think it's important to... We do not have an industrial, pure industrial designation within the specific plan so if we wanted to designate that east portion of this area to just be pure industrial we'd have to either and probably the most logical thing to do would be to carve that property out of the specific plan and revert it over to conventional Why is

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:46:56

that? That could be part of the big plan. I know there's no industrial in it, but doesn't mean there shouldn't be industrial in it.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed5:47:03

We don't have a purely industrial zone within this specific plan. Right. We just have the three residential zones and two mixed-use zones. Exactly, well why can't we though? You could, but... Yeah. ...we would have to invent that. We haven't written that as some part of the project description as evaluated or with the Planning Commissioner review. I mean, I don't think everything has to be

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:47:18

housing in this downtown specific plan. The goal of this is to put housing everywhere. In reality, I want to make this balanced. So to balance that out, I'd want to have some industrial. These are units here that are... We've got carpenters in some of them. I can see artists in this thing. It could be an industrial flex even which would probably the best way to do it because that encompasses pretty much everything.

There's a little motorcycle shop here. Yeah, I wouldn't want to see that all go away and just turn into some more density for the sake of it. So yeah.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 12Proposed5:47:59

What

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed5:48:00

do you think? That's the easiest thing to do. I agree. I think industrial flex makes a lot of sense. We already have designation in our general plan. We just bring it over into this plan

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:48:11

and... If we were to move this to industrial flex, it's agreeable to me. Does that then kick it back through CEQA and forget the planning commission, we're going all the way back to square one.

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role5:48:22

Well, correct. So I think the CEQA analysis would need to be reprepared and I think the finding would be that it's within the threshold of what impacts were studied so we'll get a clearance on that but again this is introducing a new land use designation into the specific plan. I think if we wanted to do it correctly we would do outreach specific to this change to inform the property owners of that and then return it to the Planning Commission.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed5:48:46

It's

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:48:46

already that. Yeah, it's not housing. It's industrial.

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role5:48:51

Correct but for a year and a half now we've been presenting this recommendation and even in the absence of a comment from that property owner I would like to be able to explain what the new recommendation would be.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:49:03

So we've been presenting this as residential for a year and a half while it's been industrial for its own, the whole existence of it. We don't want to return it back to what it's been

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed5:49:14

forever. If I may, the transit district does allow for manufacturing assembly and product fabrication as defined by the municipal code. I'm sorry, the transit

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role5:49:26

district in the adjacent downtown specific thing? The

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed5:49:29

draft downtown specific one.

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role5:49:31

Okay, yeah. Our intent in the zone for the reasons that Alan noted to accommodate potential or maybe basically get a foot in front of potential development of the VCTC lot was also to not preclude the existing industrial uses that are on the property. So if those uses are preserved through the recommendation there may not be a need to roll it back to Industrial Flex. Instead the lever that you might be looking at is the potential density as Chris was suggesting of the transit zone.

5:50 – 5:5528 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:50:02

So the transit zone allows for industrial uses, but it also allows for pure raw just residential. Which is what we don't want to see in that whole area right there. I don't think anything we've done or said has ever indicated that we would want to do that. Ever through anything we've gone through so...

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed5:50:27

Can we leave it as the transit zone and just remove housing from the transit zone? So it's still transit zone. We're just modifying, we just make transit zone look like industrial flex.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:50:40

I thought transit zone had to have housing in it? That was my...

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed5:50:44

I don't know. That's what I'm asking. If you're right, yeah.

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role5:50:46

Can we just take that out? Again there is some strategic insight to the inclusion of housing but you don't have to have housing. You could remove residential uses from the transit zone from the plan and references to residential uses and it can still function to support the industrial uses Albeit the building form may not be ideal for that purpose, but I think effectively it allows you to move forward without a residential option and then potentially with a following action we could come back to refine those building standards because the likelihood is that those properties are not likely to be redeveloped in a short order.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed5:51:20

And just as a reminder if we discuss this at the early side of the meeting that residential development over 10 units requires a planned development permit So if that particular property were to convert to residential, it would most likely be more than 10 units. Right

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:51:38

but we couldn't deny it because it was residential. We'd have...we would be stuck in that. We can't have a zone designated residential and then say we don't want to be residential when we have the planned development.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed5:51:54

Yeah that's correct yeah.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:51:55

So therefore we're just shooting ourselves in the foot anyways. If we can preclude residential uses in this area, then it works. If we can't then this is not a good fit.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed5:52:13

I mean there's nothing stopping them from coming to us first and saying hey we want you know rather than just going straight to the state right if they don't see a housing portion they wanted for housing would they not just come to us first as opposed

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed5:52:29

I think if the existing zoning remained as industrial and they decided they wanted to convert to redevelop that site as housing, they would have to ask for some sort of zone change. I don't think they can walk in their door... Their path to do housing on an industrial site is an uphill battle.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed5:52:48

So they'd have to come to us anyway. Yeah,

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role5:52:51

and realistically there's a relationship there, right? We have a relationship with VCTC. It would be more than just an application hitting the counter explaining that they intended to do something. I believe that.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed5:53:02

We have a member on the board, right?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed5:53:04

Yes. So I mean I'm not too worried about if we don't have a housing element on that. If they'd have to come to us anyway.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed5:53:14

And so you remove housing from the transit zone? Yes We have three.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:53:20

Is that possible?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed5:53:23

I'm going to throw something completely different. If that gets developed as industrial, it directly backs on to single family residential which is not something we'd want.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:53:39

What do you mean? It already is industrial.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed5:53:45

So if we leave it as transit, right? We're not changing the name of this area. But now we look at the uses chart

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed5:53:54

Just take out residential out of the use

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed5:53:56

chart. So we would remove all residential from... Table 5, 6.5.1. 6.51 and then when we look at 6.52 if there's any other potential changes that you would want to make you could do that?

CommentDevelopment Director Gene BurseProposed · by introduction5:54:15

That still would work. I don't see any problem with the rest We're

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed5:54:33

just looking at the other uses.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed5:54:41

Office, churches.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:54:43

So I see us potentially kicking this back to the Planning Commission and I see us probably definitely needing another day to actually get this done correctly because we need to get through this whole thing. I see you all want to stay until four in the morning, which I will do. But that would be great. I wanted to see what y'all think right now because we're going to go around in circles on this one but then not have enough time for the rest of it and then we're already If

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:55:14

we can't make the not change to the residential zoning without going back to planning commission, I can't see how this doesn't also have to go back to planning commission. That's not correct. That's not correct? I

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role5:55:26

apologize. You can strip out residential uses in the transit zone, leave the non-residential uses alone without being referred back to planning commission because these properties don't currently allow residential uses and the addition of residential uses to the site was proposed by the plan

5:55 – 6:0749 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed5:55:46

Well,

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role5:55:49

the first one was a wobble remember and we're still thinking through this

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 11Proposed5:55:53

It's not that it's it's while I was talking. I remembered a case and I pulled it up while you were still deliberating It's a 1968 case and in that one there was eight proposed zone changes put forward by the Planning Commission to the Council and the council only approved rezoning of two of them, and the court was okay with it. So I do have one case to support both of those changes.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:56:19

Works in nineteen sixty eight

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 11Proposed5:56:20

and so that's what I that's what I have for you in between. That's what changed So while I was talking like something made me remember that case, and I had to Google it and find it And so I have it in front of me. I have a case to support it It's just the one

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:56:33

yeah, I'm not looking at trying to get through a loophole my my comment is

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 11Proposed5:56:39

It's just that how quickly did it fall into my memory?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:56:42

Well, I'm impressed that you remember a case from 1968 that had two out of eight. If ultimately the best process regardless of required or otherwise is that we send this back to the Planning Commission because there's items here then my suggestion is we go through and highlight hey, we want you to look at these particular items let them do some deliberation and send it back to us if you're thinking we can get through it all

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:57:08

Well to do that, wouldn't we need to go and cover every single item on here to make sure that we're not going to have to redo this again? Not

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed5:57:17

if we don't

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:57:17

all have questions

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed5:57:18

about every single item.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:57:19

We're in the fourth quarter of this one and if we go back to Planning Commission again after this one... We're gonna be out of time. I'm not happy how we're stuck here, but Will we have time to do a if we do a follow-up meeting on this to continue the rest of this? Be a special meeting and then be able to kick the whole thing back to planning with all the changes We want to make and be able to come back in In

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:57:46

time

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed5:57:48

Is it necessary? I mean, they're just

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed5:57:51

saying it's not

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed5:57:51

necessary. How many changes...how many more things do you have that you want to talk about, I guess?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed5:57:55

Yeah, that's what he comes down to. I can

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed5:58:00

be done. Yeah. No no, I'm just saying because yeah. So to me the big things that we have not talked about are parking on Moorpark Avenue. I think that's a huge...it's...on the page where it's shown parking plan, it's cut off. It doesn't even show cause there is none. So I think, and I don't have a solution

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:58:18

for it. So just to recap again, so you want to talk about parking on Moorpark Avenue?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed5:58:26

Parking on Moorpark Avenue, sidewalk dedication possibility on Moorpark Avenue. transit area that we're talking about, I would love to designate that as a transit hub and where we could potentially move.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:58:46

You have three significant ones and I'm curious how many? And we haven't talked about the Civic Center

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:58:53

or the Chamber of Commerce site either.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:58:57

The Civic Center is the only one that I have remaining on my notes to go over but it sounds like you've got five or six more.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed5:59:05

That's what I've got circled as my most important.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:59:11

I'm good to run through them, but I understand that's not where everybody might be If we don't have to get planning and we can get this thing finished tonight And we could be effective and efficient which would be an interesting thing to start doing now We I would say let's go. Let's go for him, but

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:59:27

yeah

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed5:59:31

Okay,

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed5:59:33

all right. Well then let's do it then Let's start with well, let's do I'll see chamber of commerce site So I'm not sure how much How much detail we can get into PJ with the

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 7Proposed6:00:01

The Chamber of Commerce site?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed6:00:02

Yeah.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 7Proposed6:00:04

Yeah, I think we'd have to be very careful about this one just because maybe it kind of depends on the question but...

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed6:00:16

I mean, I think the idea here is that it's high level. Right? Obviously we all have different opinions on maybe what potentially should be at that corner but the idea that it's a more engaging space as I think what's being shown in this and any potential project that comes to us for that site would have to be evaluated by its own merits So I don't see a need to change anything in that section personally

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed6:00:48

Currently 556 reads It's one of the most important opportunities location is recommended for food service uses outdoor dining A full-service restaurant with large patio is one option and an outdoor market or beer garden Is another? I think that At a high level, incorporates a lot of the things that it could go towards municipal use like a park. It could go to a community garden and some of the other high-level things that were talked about but we own it. We can decide upon it. I don't know what we need to do unless you have a direction there.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed6:01:20

No, I kind of agree with this. I think it's just really like that corner should just go to the highest and best use wherever that's going to be something to activate the downtown if that happens to be a way to activate it with Chamber of Commerce uses then great if it's a way to do it in a better way with A burger bar or something, then.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed6:01:39

Do you have any specific changes to that section that you want to see?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed6:01:42

No, I don't. I just, I agree with this as it's written. Check. So check it out.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed6:01:47

Next. On the same page is 5.5 parking improvements. You want to go with that one Barrett? The Councilman Barrett, no disrespect, but then I'm not on that page. Oh, I'm sorry. I'll go wherever you want to go.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 12Proposed6:02:06

Is it 5.25?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed6:02:07

I was thinking that 5.5 was going to cover parking as a whole, not just Moorpark Avenue but I wasn't trying to lead

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed6:02:14

the

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed6:02:14

way. Got it.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed6:02:15

Okay yeah so park...I just have concerns about parking on Moorpark Avenue. I don't feel like the plan has any real solutions in it today. There is no street parking on Moorpark Avenue. We're talking about businesses. I know we've already looked at a The dentist office as a project has come to us, right? And they have parking in theirs. But if someone were to convert one of the homes say into a business and leave it as the existing structure there is no way to get to those properties and there's no real solutions proposed in this document and I feel like that's That's a difficult thing.

If we can't provide a public parking lot, then I think we need to have some sort of way of how do they get parking? Right behind Flory is that and Moorpark Avenue there is an alleyway. I don't know if that plays into it in some way that we require parking off the alley maybe for if you're on that side of the street But I just don't think parking is addressed for Moorpark Avenue in a material way.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed6:03:31

Yeah,

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed6:03:31

so I guess

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed6:03:31

that street... The commercial businesses on that street are pretty much converted houses that have driveways that are their parking lots except for the The State Farm has a bigger parking lot inside of it. Right, so I guess technically right now it's parking is pretty much inside of those spaces but if you were to make that whole thing a building then you have no parking and where do you go? You can't park on the street so you have to have or you just don't build anything I suppose or put a public parking spot somewhere because I'm not sure yeah you're right where would you put that

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role6:04:11

We will retain an off-street parking requirement with the understanding that it may or may not be enforceable if someone chooses to invoke state law. There still is parking required on the private property. Even within so many feet of a high quality transit. That's right, I have not yet received an actual request to waive that requirement for any development project within the half mile and in fact a lot of the bank lenders do require off street parking in order to find that feasible loan.

Just my two

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed6:04:42

cents. My two cents are very consistent with yours It's been our experience again What we're talking about on the east side of Moorpark Road These are very small lots with individual single-family houses there may be a couple of multifamilies But all of that parking is off of the alleyway as you mentioned Council Member Barrett And so far that any opportunity that we've looked at to do anything on any of those parcels was all would be to convert it to commercial use or something like that. The State Farm is a perfect example, they ended up having to put all that parking on their site but they did it and they got it to work. On the west side All of the new, the assumption would be that all of the new projects that come along because those are larger sites.

We do have you know the dentist's office that was just recently approved they provided all the parking it was all in the back which is consistent with the new with... It was actually consistent with the intent of this new plan as well in terms of where the setbacks are and everything like that So that's going to be set the stage for the development along there. So the assumption would be that as those parcels develop, they're gonna have to provide on-site parking. But I would agree with the Community Development Director that these projects typically even from a commercial perspective aren't gonna get funded if they don't provide parking on site.

You can't get a commercial lease if it's not three stalls per thousand. Or in a residential perspective, you want two stalls per unit or whatever it ends up being. So from a funding perspective and actual real sort of real world perspective the assumption would be that any project that comes along is going to have to provide its own parking on site.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed6:06:45

Yeah, and that pretty much limits a lot of stuff. You're not going to see anything that's like a cafe or a sandwich shop or anything because if you can't park anywhere, you can't do that. But also putting in public parking down there to have everything filled up... I can see it working and I can also see it turning into an urban downtown real quick.

6:07 – 6:1312 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed6:07:11

Okay. Do you see... I appreciate the setback, right? That we've installed on Moorpark Avenue. I think that's great to move that setback back. Do you see a need for any sidewalk dedication for any new development?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed6:07:31

We had talked about...

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed6:07:34

Yeah.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed6:07:36

It would be our preference, yes.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed6:07:38

Yes. You know the road is a Caltrans facility as you know? So if you were to require a dedication for sidewalk, you would want to make that consistent across the entire length of the street from north to south and probably both sides of the street. There's probably more opportunity to get the sidewalk on the west side of the street as those if and when properties redevelop because that's more likely it can kind of negotiate to have them provide more sidewalk.

On the east side of the street, short of doing a complete dedication. I don't know how you would do that, how you would get the additional sidewalk and that would obviously be Correct. It would actually probably be a taking of the private land because you're not asking for the... That'd be a tricky situation. Usually dedications are required as a component of development that needs to provide, you know, an additional right turn pocket or you have to expand the roadway because your general plan says the desired road width is 100 feet and it's only 80 feet or something like that so the dedication is usually tied to a development permit but they just come and take Or to put in a the extra sidewalk. I'm not exactly sure the legal mechanisms of that what we

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed6:08:57

think what I was going for is Obviously, we're not gonna just go and take the you know And put in a sidewalk that's bigger than once they're off the bat but if as these developments come forward right says the dentist office for example right if we have had a required sidebar dedication that say three feet more than what exists today. The sidewalks are very narrow and it is a state highway, right? So the ability to kind of have that space would be great.

There's certainly buildings like the Moorpark General Store that are right on that line, right? They have the zero setback today and that's not going They're part of the character of the town, so it's not going to be full consistent across the board. But now is the opportunity as a lot of these properties especially on the west side are potential for development sites if we had an extra three feet sidewalk dedication as you do the development eventually we might get to hey we're 90% there Can we complete this type of thing?

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role6:10:17

Council Member, thank you. I mean, I would refer to our public works director but typically those dimensions and the justification for that dedication is defined through a technical study in a capital improvement program. You know, we want to make sure that if we're putting out a certain dimension or requirement to dedicate that we've done our work and we've evaluated the full right-of-way needs associated with that facility improvement in addition to costing it and scoping it to put it forward as feasible I can understand the desire to expand the sidewalk, but I don't know that the downtown specific plan is the right vehicle by which to establish that as a requirement. And Dan please supplement anything on this.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 19Proposed6:10:55

Sure Doug There's a capital improvement project on the books right now It's the Moorpark Avenue widening project and that contemplates widening to the west That two southbound lanes from Casey Road all the way to LA Avenue So we can revisit that CIP project and really think about what is the council's vision for that CIP. What facilities need to be included? It could be another lane, it could be wider sidewalks.

To that point though the state's got jurisdiction so they'll have their design requirements That will be placed on that project, but certainly we can revisit That as part of the CIP not so much as part of this specific plan document, but my two cents there

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed6:11:49

Yeah, I mean if I'm a developer and I'm looking at the the Downtown specific plan and we say hey, we've got these one page super simple. This is what's required and then oh wait In our CAP plan we have that you know, you're gonna have to dedicate another three feet Of sidewalk and that's not noted anywhere in here You know now we've just destroyed what we were trying to achieve by having this simple plan. I

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role6:12:16

I appreciate the concern and desire for transparency, but those kind of revelations are typical through the development review process. A lot of that isn't known at the time, and frankly each frontage dedication that may be required for that sidewalk may be unique to each site because it's not a perfectly straight line. So again, I think that level of custom feedback is better served through the CIP and development

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 19Proposed6:12:36

process. Okay. Fair enough. Quite frankly, that is exactly what happened on that particular project. There was a deed that was separated out from that parcel Contemplation of widening and then with design standards changing There was another dedication for future dedication for pedestrian access and to go around a driveway, so Those are things that are reviewed during the development application process

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed6:13:01

Okay

6:13 – 6:1924 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 19Proposed6:13:05

Berkenshaw House,

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed6:13:07

that was

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 12Proposed6:13:07

5.1.15.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed6:13:13

Adaptive reuse of Berkenshaw House, one of the most significant historic structures in plan areas, critical placemaking element of this specific plan. Preserving this house for future use will enforce unique history of downtown Moorpark. Totally agree. Potential uses may include a bed and breakfast, inn, restaurant, wine tasting room, wedding venue. Or it says community facility for housing development on the surrounding property. I like all those except for that last one, because I think being a public facing historical thing is better than a private facility for housing development.

I agree.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed6:13:50

I agree, but at the end of the day it's still a private property. And they've been going in circles for how many years? I don't even know why it's been here necessarily.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed6:14:02

Right. But I'm saying that all these other uses here are activating that area so much better and that's a really cool historical site or it could just be a front lobby to a high density

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed6:14:12

building. Again, to keep us moving, I think just strike that language would be great. That's all I'll

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed6:14:17

do

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed6:14:17

is cut that one out. Yeah.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed6:14:18

Is that a historical site?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed6:14:21

It's not designated.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed6:14:22

Right, so I just want to make sure that we're not confusing terms. I didn't think it was. Okay noted.

CommentDevelopment Director Gene BurseProposed · by introduction6:14:32

I think I had gone through my... What else do we have? Civic Center Raster Plan. Civic Center.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed6:14:48

Okay, Civic Center Master Plan.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed6:14:59

I would like on the Civic Center Master Plan to strike the language for both market rate and affordable housing. I do not believe that the current approved master plan has any housing in it and it would be Based on the CIP discussions that we've had, we've looked at a lot of public uses for that property and housing was not one of them. Also in the table on 6.5.2 where it outlines all the uses I would actually add DA to the hotel under the Civic Center column, not that hotel would be necessarily my intended use for that space. But as we talk about maybe a theater or something like that there could be a hotel element with a theater that could work and so to just keep it out of there completely I think having DA on that would make sense to me.

not transcribed≈10s of audible speech the AI couldn’t make out▸ listen
UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed6:16:14

Is there any reason why we can't talk about the Civic Center Master Plan like yesterday when this meeting started? I thought there was a reason why we couldn't get too far into the Civic Center Master Plan.

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role6:16:27

There is a master plan, obviously related to that site that sets a specific vision and environmental analysis associated with it. What you're talking about now though is standards related to a conceptual description and then also potentially allowing the future land use through a subsequent process that would be subject to CEQA so I don't believe there are conflicts there. Great.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed6:16:56

Disagreement. I did not think that was going to be our fastest one. We're all on the same page on that one? Is that clear? You might need just a moment to review that.

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role6:17:17

Sorry if I missed something.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed6:17:19

Was that change clear?

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role6:17:21

It was, thank you. So we would be striking both market rate and affordable housing on Project 1. And on 6.5.2, we'd be adding hotel to the Civic Center with a DA.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed6:17:38

The one thing that was not talked about is that transit hub potential for in the Metrolink parking lot. And I don't know what is possible to do that, but to look at a future relocation of all bus routes and everything to that south Metrolink parking lot in order to facilitate easier connections and a central place for Transit and as we look at the future of transit and what that is and whether it's rideshare or Autonomous or different things. It also kind of gives a you know, this is our pickup spot. It gives you know kind of a dedicated This is You know, the center of downtown. This is where we want everything to come together from a transportation standpoint.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed6:18:27

So were you saying to take the 50-foot bus and drive it around the loop in the transit area? Yes. Would it even fit like that?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed6:18:36

I mean, it's a big parking lot. I think the bus could turn around in the parking lot. I would remove the, obviously not right away. This is just conceptual but I would remove all the bus stops from High Street. That's prime parking in front of what will end up being there and I know we had this conversation a little bit when we talked about the new bus thing that we just did with that grant.

I was told that the parts were movable.

6:19 – 6:2538 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed6:19:12

For money, everything's movable.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed6:19:14

If memory serves, that parking lot is owned by Metrolink or is it VTC? VCTC. Thank you. Tell them that city buses and county buses, do we have the authority to be deciding that property? I don't know.

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role6:19:37

My understanding is that you guys are discussing additions to item 10 which is again a conceptual recommendation so you would be able to reflect back here if you'd like aspirationally We would pursue implementation of it one direction you could get into the feasibility.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed6:19:54

Like, the concept of it... I understand the concept and it makes total sense. If it worked then what would that do? It'll free up a bunch of parking on High Street.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed6:20:03

Yeah. I like that. Thousand Oaks has a transit center, right? And it's a big parking lot and all the buses go there, everything. That's kind of the central place for all the connections.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed6:20:17

Right, so the big empty bus can go through this area instead of the side of the street. I got you. Amen. But this is not really a time to talk about the turning radius of a 50-foot blue bus in this parking lot. I think if we're opening it up to a possibility in the future then yeah absolutely like why would we not talk about that? It's a good idea.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed6:20:35

So do you want to add or change language to 5.1.10 Propose the language and I think you're probably going to get three people that support almost whatever you say.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed6:20:53

I will take, I mean, I'll let the city staff come up with language.

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role6:20:59

Yeah, I would propose that to the sentence to enhance its appeal, the parking lot south of the railroad track should be improved with additional lighting as well as shade trees located amidst the parking stalls Staff or the city may also evaluate the development of a transit hub in this lot.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed6:21:20

Perfect. Oh, you're saying that... I'm sorry, the south lot? South lot. Correct. Yeah. I thought you meant the north lot.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed6:21:26

No.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed6:21:26

Could the north lot work too though?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed6:21:29

Why would you want more buses on High Street?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed6:21:31

I don't but I'm saying if they don't fit on... If they don't work on the south lot because it's a thinner... Property the turnarounds are all different would it?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed6:21:44

I think as it's developed, right? We're talking about putting shade trees and all these things and making it look better. It's a perfect opportunity to evaluate a bus turn in that area.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed6:21:58

Yeah, Mr. Mayor, I feel reasonably confident buses can maneuver around on the south lot, south of the Metrolink. I agree with the north lot. I have questions about the south lot. I feel pretty confident they could sort that out.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed6:22:12

Perfect. That's

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed6:22:14

what

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed6:22:15

I got.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed6:22:19

You got anything else? I'm out. Okay, so do you want to have a... Can we go through a record of what we made changes to? Absolutely.

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role6:22:42

All right, so the first change in segments two and three I have was related to the East Gateway long-term potential site for not mixed use housing but a hotel. There were changes to section...

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed6:23:00

Sorry Doug. Pardon? Sorry, I had indicated development so we're not...

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role6:23:05

Say that again?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed6:23:06

The language I had written down or suggested was potential site for mixed-use development,

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role6:23:10

not necessarily a hotel. Were we removing mixed-use development? That's what I had...

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed6:23:15

On letter D on section 4.2. Sorry. Yeah, it

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 7Proposed6:23:19

was removing the word housing and putting development in

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed6:23:22

there. Correct, yeah. Deleting the word housing and replacing it with development on letter D. I apologize. But then we were going to add hotel letter B as in boy, where we said high street infill development and suggest that's a hotel. So I'm sorry, Doug.

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role6:23:39

No, I apologize. Alan, I was going to actually

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed6:23:41

ask for your

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role6:23:41

help on section 4.2. There were some changes going around with references.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed6:23:48

And then I think we're going to add some language in the paragraph that would say potentially for hotel uses kind of right strategic location there in the paragraph

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role6:24:02

On the East Gateway?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed6:24:03

Yeah.

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role6:24:03

Gotcha.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed6:24:09

That's what I have for

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role6:24:10

4-2. Section 4.4, we were swapping out the existing business facade photo. We were updating... Kai, bear with me here. Updating the Moorpark Avenue development standards in the same manner that the High Street Development Standards were updated to include the step-back mechanic in the rear, and that would be specifically Table 6.4.2. And then moving on... 6.49, the Charles Street overlay will be removed Page 5-11, the Berkenshaw property. We will strike community facility and that language on.

On the Civic Center Master Plan, Property 1 in Section 5-1, we will strike both market rate and affordable housing from the description. Section 6.5.2, we will amend the land use table for noncommercial uses to add a hotel as an option in the civic center with a development agreement. Section 5.1 dot 10 We will add city may also pursue development of a transit hub in this lot, which is the South Metrolink parking lot And that's all I

CommentAnd DanProposed · by introduction6:25:35

have Did you catch the first street does that staying are one

6:25 – 6:2922 turns

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role6:25:46

Yes, would you like to? I thought we decided we could do that. Right, I

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed6:25:52

don't know if we officially resolved it. When they repeat it back, it doesn't sound like it's one in the morning.

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role6:25:59

We concluded that leaving that as an R1 designation would not have to be referred back to the Planning Commission because it's within the designations in the specific plan and not the zoning code.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed6:26:12

That is what we had consensus on

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role6:26:14

right

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed6:26:15

great you all record that as well

CommentAnd DanProposed · by introduction6:26:20

Yeah

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed6:26:32

There's two images. There's an image that's been, we keep struggling to find the right image but we'll get it right this next time on Section 44A, yeah. But then there was a suggestion to indicate a proposed façade renovation for the Moorpark Professional Building on Moorpark Avenue where that graphic would show up in 43, section 43.

GovPJ GagajenaCity ManagerProposed · by role6:26:59

Thank you. I have that as well and then just to clarify because I've confused myself, the R2 properties that had been on 2nd Street are now going back to R1? Okay, Charles Street's all right as is. Thank you.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed6:27:15

First Street. We

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed6:27:17

have

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed6:27:36

a closed session after this?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 12Proposed6:27:37

Yes. We have an ordinance after this, though. It's not over yet.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed6:28:01

I'll make a motion to approve...

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed6:28:03

Yep.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed6:28:04

Are we good for that? I'll make a motion to approve segments two and three as amended.

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by role6:28:11

Second that.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed6:28:14

Motion in a second. We'll need a roll call vote

Roll-call vote Passed 2–0 Motion in a second. We'll need a roll call
Show transcript
Councilmember Barrett. Aye councilmember Delgado. Aye
UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by role6:28:20

councilmember means hi mayor in a friend Hi, and the record will affect that council member Castro is absent so motion passes 4-0

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed6:28:31

Next item is 11 ordinances would you like to take this now or push it to the next meeting? Do we have any timeline implications on this?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 11Proposed6:28:51

Mr. Mayor? I just would imagine that it would go quickly because it's the second reading and this council has different

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed6:28:55

thoughts. Oh, that's right. Yeah. Okay. Let's go ahead. Why not? 11A is to consider ordinance number 543 amending sections 8.36.325 and 8. 36.350 of chapter 8. 36 solid waste of title eight Health and safety at Moorpark Municipal Code relating to solid waste collection rates, and making a determination of exemption from the California Environmental Quality Act with Ms. Shaw.

not transcribed≈11s of audible speech the AI couldn’t make out▸ listen

6:29 – 6:307 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 11Proposed6:29:30

This is ordinance number 534, an ordinance of the City of Moorpark, California amending sections 8.36.325 and 8. 36.350 of chapter 8.3-6 solid waste of title eight health and safety of the Moorpark Municipal Code relating to solid waste collection rates and making a determination of exemption from the California Environmental Quality Act. A motion would be in order to waive further reading declare ordinance number 534 red for the second time and adopt it as read.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed6:29:59

So moved second motion in a second. We need a roll call vote

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by role6:30:04

Councilman means hi councilmember Barrett. I can't some of our dog Otto. Hi mayor integrand All right, and the record will reflect that councilmember Castro is absent motion passes 4-0

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed6:30:14

Excited miss 12 closed session Thank

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 7Proposed6:30:18

You Mary no close session items this evening

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed6:30:21

next 13 I'll make a motion to adjourn if you want to go to bed Aye Thank you and good morning Moorpark.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed6:30:32

Happy birthday Gene!