Arts Commission Regular Meeting

Welcome everybody and I just wanted to make a special call out to Carolyn who's, I think on Machu Picchu right now or somewhere close to it. And she sends her best and I just want to offer to each of you the gratitude I've felt this week With commissioners as I've worked around the community and realize the egoless and the service-oriented things we're doing when I look at the world in the terrible things that I see happening and people say that's the time to act locally and I'm proud and thank you guys to be able to Do that by your side, and tonight will be a great example of us Exercising our democratic rights to speak through the arts All right. We have an agenda All in favor All opposed, thank you. Is that good enough Bridget?

All right, we have a presentation today and let me introduce it a little bit I was at the Miners Oaks Parks was a new 501 c3 That was established two years ago and they have I think it's a four acre parcel on El Roblox exactly about 200 yards from the city limits of Ojai. And so, I'm proud that this Arts Commission through the lobbying we've done with council has gotten the council to recognize both that our creative economy, our local creative economy Isn't bound by these lines. Most of our artists live outside that most of the benefit that comes from these artists To this city of Ojai comes from our whole valley too So we have permission to have commissioners who live outside the valley and we have and our grants process allows us to award that I'm sorry live outside the city limits and our grants process allows it as well so thank you for city for recognizing that and And I discovered this beautiful thing that's happening 200 yards from the city limits, which is Miners Oaks Parks.

It was established to set up a park on the lot that—I don't know if you've seen it—it sits across the street—not Acacia, what do they call the little old folks home? Arcadia? They have a little thermometer out there where they're trying to raise money and they were established with a $500,000 grant that they got from the state. on this property, which is owned by the county. And that is to do some of the hard improvements. So they're gonna begin construction on a restroom parking lot kind of little welcome area, kinda hardscaping.

They got an additional this year, they got an additional grant to do public art planning and I was very impressed with that. They got a $42,000 grant from the state just for the planning of a mural and a sculpture in the park, and they went through a jury process and selected a muralist and a sculptor. And they're beautiful pieces I saw at their meeting the other night.

$100,000 for the actual art pieces. So I was very impressed to see the organization they put together in two years doing things the right way and I just wanted us to kind of celebrate that this is happening here in our valley and with that I was going to introduce Sophia with Studio Tutto. Now Tutto please come up. This is the artist that was selected to do the mural and she's gonna tell us a little bit about How it happened and tell us how you got to Ojai too because I know that's a story in itself.

Well, I've been coming to Ojai now for about 10 years and then with the fire in Altadena we finally made the move here so now I'm a resident of Miner's Oaks and I'm very excited for Miner's Oaks Park.

Your house burned?

My house didn't burn,

it's severely damaged.

I can't live in it

but

now I live here and I have a two-year old so I'm really excited for this park to come to fruition and so yeah I'm here to kind of talk a little bit about what the plan is for the 500 foot long mural wall and thank you for inviting me to be here. So I'll just start by sure Well, I'll just start by as she loads the presentation saying that I've been a public artist for about 17 years and I have made maybe 80 installations across California.

And all of my work... Can you begin the slideshow? Thank you. All of my work is really focused on local ecology, and I'm a site-specific artist. So I respond to what is on the site, and my kind of entire vision for my studio is to help make the invisible components—the ecological invisible components visible, and help direct people's attention to the nature that surrounds them that is often kind of ignored.

And so tonight I'm just going to show one project called Bright Underbelly, to give you just a little context on my work. So this is the site... No that's good we're good! We're rolling. So this is the site for this installation it's the largest farmers market in California The vision for this that I designed had to do with what the site used to be before the freeway was built. It was a sycamore grove, so this is as if you're laying on your back looking up at the two stretches of freeway and I'm taking viewers through the four seasons by painting blue sky and turning the concrete into sycamores going through the four seasons.

So this is how I created the piece. I spent about six months in these bizarre lounge chair scissor lifts, I added in the native creatures and the seasons that they appear, and the final element is this lunar cycle that is an annual cycle and kind of grounds the piece visually and conceptually. We love to engage the community in our work. That's a really important part of being a public artist, so we did a native creature eye spy with kids when we were complete and we also did a 400 person feast beneath the freeway.

This one is up in Sacramento. Yes, so that brings me to Miner's Oaks Park. So I really love the idea of involving people in the actual creation process of public art especially when it's in such a community-centered space. So, I'm going to share a series that I do. I call them mural kits and this is going to be the structure that we're gonna take to create the artwork for this 500 foot long wall So there's a lot of spaces like this all over the world, especially in schools.

And we come in and we design a site-specific piece. This is an example of a mural we designed based on that particular school's native garden that they were putting it at the same time. We also design a color palette so that we have sort of a cohesive vision that will really work with the space. And we often accompany, with our design, sort of an education framework for teachers or practitioners to kind of prep the kids as they go into painting these species and understanding why are we painting these particular plants and animals?

And then we map out kind of like a giant coloring book. This is what we will be doing for Miner's Oaks, and then in this case, we invited the whole school community. So it was the students, the teachers, the faculty, the staff, everyone painted side by side to create this final piece. And so it's really, I think very rewarding for people to come into a very blank space and then step back and be able to see kind of what you can make together in focus.

So for Miners Oaks Park this is the canvas. This is the really kind of perfect mural kit canvas because it's a long low wall. So I'm currently in the design phase as Smitty mentioned. So what I've been doing is meeting with You know the local CNPS chapter, Ojai Valley Land Conservancy and we're sort of studying what the vision of this design could be. We're going to be making it about the ecology stretching from the kind of riparian river zone all the way up to the mountain because we have such a long canvas Next slide. And so we're just starting, we're kind of beginning the process of extracting plants from our beautiful local landscape and we're aiming to have the design finished in probably this summer and then we're going to be painting it Next spring that's the kind of current schedule So I have current.

I've already begun outreach to all the ten schools of the Ojai Valley and I have everyone on board And so we're just sort of in the process of figuring out how it is that we are going to involve The schools and make sure that you know, maybe all the art students who really want to participate are able to participate We're also exploring some Internship opportunities for Nordoff and Oak Grove, and I think it'll be a really fabulous project. So thank you very much

Can you describe the actual work that was they selected you to do?

The mural work?

Yeah

yeah so it'll be it'll be a 500 foot long mural that the community of Basically all the school children in the valley will help me paint and it's gonna be a long mural all about the ecology of the Valley

Right. But what I like that I've heard is that you, because I was a scientist at one time and love nature, is it takes it takes you like you're taking a trip upstream?

Yeah from the riparian kind of valley river zone all the way up to the mountains. That's right.

So educational at the same time.

Yeah.

Please, anyone ask any questions you have?

I have a question. Sure. Sophia, you can be our ambassador because one of the things I've been urging without success is to have some involvement with the schools and so whether it's the teachers or student groups but to get the schools involved in our Arts activities, so let's keep in touch about that and especially with Pam who is our education slash mentor person.

Yeah,

yeah. Very exciting. Thank you.

Thank you. And I was going to say the next speaker is Christopher Knox and I think who's president of the Ojai Studio Artists. We have 73 local artists who are professional artists and we're very involved with the high school mentorships and I think we could probably call upon our group to participate as well. Great. That'd be great.

Where exactly is it located?

Miner's Oaks Park. I'm sorry. Oh, I was just gonna say it's directly across from Coffee Connection right on El Roblar.

Okay. Do you know that part of the thing? I'll find it! You just look on the right when you pull onto El Roblar. It's like 200 yards down there on the right.

It needs donations.

Thank you for that. What is your last name? It's LeChin. L-A-C-I-N

Okay. I'm the secretary. Thank you for that presentation, beautiful work especially that Sacramento and I mean just so courageous of you to do a ceiling mural. Yeah. I really admire that. A lot of men used to do that right? So, will this mural be in the same artistic vein as the Sydney Harbour one that you showed? Like the same style. This kind of graphic.

Yeah it'll be a little more graphic but it's gonna have more layers than the community mural that I showed tonight. I think it's going to be kind of a blend and we're still...that's sort of what we're in the midst of working through now is what the actual design will be We want to make sure to really feature kind of under underrepresented species throughout the valley, culturally significant plants or pollinators and animals.

But then when you're designing something that the community will then paint that that, you know, of course dictates a bit what you make in terms of design because they're not professional artists and we need to walk away from the project with a professional quality piece of public art. So that's always the balance.

And do you have to paint directly on that brick wall?

Yeah, it will be painted directly on the wall.

OK,

yeah.

So you can't treat it or smooth it out or anything like

that? We're going to just be painting on the on prepped and primed cinder block

wall.

Yeah.

And I assume this timeline is when the actual park is going to be done

so you

would do them your own after the major construction

after the major constructions. Yeah. Yeah, they're looking at a

year from now.

Yes, I think that's the goal. Yeah

that's amazing. Thank you so much.

Thank you for having me.

Thank you, Sophia. Thank you, Commission. What I particularly liked is kind of the way this was done with this new organization that got government support outside the valley and has a respect to the art community to do a planning process and then the actual acquisition part of it later. So bravo to Miners Oaks Parks! I'm going to move on to public comments unless anyone has anything there. So yeah, let's do Christopher first. Hey Christopher welcome back

What's up? I'm glad to be here. I wanted to say hello to those of you, I don't know, I think there's only one or maybe two. I'm a artist here in Ojai. You guys have approved one of the murals I've done. I've been on a mural commission, I guess thanks to Chris Jury. Thanks to Christine and I'm now working with Julie Empson as president of the Ojai Studio Artists And so I wanted to let you know about a fundraiser that we're doing right down the street that is all this week and will culminate on Sunday. It's called Small Works Big Impact, and we're raising money primarily for the grants that you have so generously supported us in the past with.

That is the second part which is thank you so much for your support of Ojai Studio Artists. Super appreciate it. And this year we are doing a project where we have 30 plus 8x8 works that have been donated they're up right now and there's little boxes next to each piece people buy tickets for $20 apiece or $100 for 2010 sorry, I keep getting that wrong. It's 10 tickets for $100 you stick the tickets in the little boxes that are next to each piece and At the end of this week we pick one ticket out of each box and that person takes home that piece The reception is on Sunday We have already raised I think about $4,000 and we're hoping that we can have a very successful weekend. And all that money hopefully will it'll all go to the Ojai Studio artists and obviously we gave $12,000 away last year for two students at Nordhoff this year.

We're hoping to increase that so please come Find a piece that you like and thanks primarily to Pamela for all your work in getting it together. We are all volunteer and the organization is incredibly grateful. I'm going to hand one

of these to each of you.

Christopher,

what are the hours of Blanche Sylvia? Yes. But during regular business hours is that? What time

do we open? 12 to 6, thank you.

And

you don't have to be there for the drawing? You don't have to be there

for the drawing. Okay yeah thanks everybody.

Thank you very exciting.

All right are other public comment is an old friend Newsome Mall come on up Newsome what do you got for us?

I came to say hello. And I'm interested in the revitalization of the five-year plan, and I think I submitted a proposal to you all but I wanted to reintroduce myself because some of you are new so hello. I've been facilitating pivotal junctures in the lives of individuals, organizations, communities for We'll just call it decades. And critical junctures, I also have a doctorate in depth psychology with somatic studies which I've used throughout the years across cultures. I'm very excited about this juncture where we're in a very different place than we were two years ago. There's so much going on as you referenced earlier Smitty In the world and I facilitated gatherings of small businesses after the fires here in Ojai. And I've been, I listened to the pulse and I just feel like there's such an opportunity right now for this commission in this state of maturation and integration of new people to really stand to become something that can be Stabilizing, restorative and regenerative in a way that really speaks to the soul of Ojai.

So I'm very excited about now. And so anyway, I just wanted to come say hi and introduce myself, answer any questions if you have any. I use arts-based methods, so I visually map out It was kind of amazing that they said, she was saying that they make the invisibles visible because that's actually part of my tagline. That I make the essential invisibles visible, understandable and actionable.

And so that's something that by capturing what we're considering, the different key areas that need to be considered in order to really produce something sustainable, that can make the difference we want to make. It's important to make things referenceable in a way that gets past just words so our meanings are anchored through images and I've been doing this for decades so it's just second nature even if you look at my notes of what she was saying they're visual.

So anyway I just wanted present myself to you and say hello, and see if you have any questions. And also just my being and words of encouragement to the moment and what you guys stand for.

Thank you, Nusa.

OK. Thank you. I appreciate

you

coming.

All right, let's move on to our consent item which is just our minutes I believe. No more speakers online?

No one is online. Okay.

I have one change on the minutes I'm used to this, but they put down Commissioner Tabak Banks. So get rid of the S and I'm okay.

Where is that at?

I'm used to it.

Where's that at?

It's on page two under commissioner reports. Yes no S.

Are we talking about the agenda or the minutes?

Minutes March

19th

We're so caught

up to thanks to our secretary that we're already amending

our future minutes. I don't think anyone else's minutes are as caught up as this Commission's, including council's.

All right. I move we accept the minutes in the present. All in favor? Aye. Opposed? All right, let's move on to our facilitator. All

right.

Are they not in there? Okay all right beautiful. All right so strategic planning which I've kind of been the kind of lead on and if you recall just bring you all up to speed from two meetings ago. Every two years, it's required that all commissions update their five-year plan every two years and I actually had the honor of going through the books in the boxes in the back from the Museum of the Arts Commissions in the past and you know, I found their five-year plans. You know, the longest one was about I mean, not that length makes good but the amount of work that we did that Christine and Pam were here for and myself were here for. But to the newer commissioners, it was – we still have NUSA's I took the liberty of going to the five-year plan, which as you guys know exists like an Excel sheet on a Gantt chart on my computer.

And someone suggested or asked, I think Carolyn asked by an email if it had been updated. And so that's what I'm in the process of doing. So we have 108 specific steps that were mapped out there that I will bring to our sessions as shows you know, we did it, we didn't do it, we did five of them instead of two or something like that that were what they call smart goals.

Strategic, measurable, achievable, whatever R&T are. As I looked at that this week I thought more about I was thinking more about the process here because I was looking at it and thinking, you know what? There's not going to be a whole lot changing. And it may be in some way one of you or two of you suggested, I wonder if we have to go into as much depth as we did. We want to give the newer members a chance to kind of see how we got to where we're at right now and have the opportunity to take things away or add new things on there. But for them, I think for the most part what we've been doing matches what is in the current plan so it may be that we can this won't have to be a lengthy full weekend type thing. We may be able to, in fact, we may be able to contract with an interest of parties and facilitating it on maybe on an hourly basis or something and work with the budget that we have right now.

Bridgette and I have taken the budget and looked at it And while we didn't specifically plan for this, we'll have to remember to add that to our strategic plan every two years. To plan the budget for this but we do have unspent funds so we have enough money to cover this. So when we do make a motion to approve a facilitator tonight I think I will I just wanted to add in that motion that we have the opportunity to maybe negotiate a contract that's on a time basis or something like that, not to exceed some dollar amount or something like that. So with that said, we were told by this, you know, I was vocally in favor of just bringing back NUSA but I was told we need to go through the contract process and I said well let's put it out there for a week and we heard back from staff that maybe two weeks is more appropriate so this was advertised for two weeks.

During that time, I took a couple calls from interested people and I think some of the people who got here maybe lost interest when they saw the kind of time when it was due. That was mainly, you know, people were busy in April and May or that type of thing but as you know, NUSA's interested and let's look at what we've got here tonight. Can you tell us what we have here?

We have

the one ad that we put in all of our social media and then also the

There was an

ask for resumes. Yeah, resumes one of the resumes I wasn't able to open it up his actual resume so I printed out I did ask him for another copy.

Was that Greg?

Yeah a PDF version of it I could not open that word version no matter how hard I tried but when I did ask him for and another version or another you know type format type but he never replied so I just put out his email that he had sent with it so that you guys could see what he'd said

Yeah,

I think

we and Olivia that we got hers. And then the last thing and the last one was just an email. We did. Yes, I had spoken to Tracy and she was saying well maybe if this was next October she could do it. So she sort of just removed herself but not officially but

that's what she did. Right, I didn't get that email.

I did tell her she's very important to this community and this commission. Tracy Hudak, she is sort of our arts lobbyist in Sacramento. I said we'll find something good for you. And she's anxious to contribute. So I was just going to open to discussion now and just sort of with whether people have complete or not, I think we give them all equal attention. But we're not gonna go ask for more stuff. We need to kind of move this along based on what we have here.

Yes Pamela? Mike?

So I was a part of the last strategic planning session and it was really Wonderful, intense, thorough and immersive. And I'm just wondering whether we need all of that again because I don't think we do. I personally don't think we need that again because we have a five year plan. It seems to me if we could get together and I know we have to do it publicly and review all the things we went through. I can't even imagine that We would have anything more, that much more to invest $10,000 in a facilitator for. I'd rather use that money for grants or other projects that need the money and that's just me.

Right.

I did get sticker shock as well on that so I also agreed with Pam that hopefully we all agree with the five-year plan as it stands, and we have to update it so revision obviously is not going to take us as long. And I would just say that I thought that Greg's letter was interesting. He has a lot of Out of town, an interesting background and reasonable rates. But from my point of view in terms of approaching this kind of economically it seems like we should use NUSA. She has the prior knowledge and she would get us through to that next five year point Unless you guys had any grievances with the work that she did or if you want to meet some of these people to see if they would be Copacetic with this group. I mean, it's kind of hard to know in paper I would think that you you or chair Steiner would have to have a meeting with them before going

Actually Nigel was the chair at the time Sure Good We were together on that last

planning

yeah

and

What's always puzzled me about this process is I understand we have to have a five-year plan and then it has to be updated every two years. Does that mean that when you update it every two years, that what you're updating is a plan for three years? And so at the end of what's technically five years even though you've had in between brush-ups, that is my question. So assuming it's 2000 do we redo it in 2005 but we have two two year brush ups or if we brush it up and these are hypothetical dates 2022 does it then go forward until 27?

The reason I have that question is because if what we're looking at is the static five-year plan, I have very definite views about what we should do next. So I think I first need that direction from you, Smitty.

Right. Well, I can speak to planning from a corporate standpoint which was my background. No, we need planning from

this

standpoint. Just

tell us what

we're doing. I could speak from experience from that. As far as government is and as far as Ojai specifically is, the statute is that all the commissions present a five-year plan to be updated every two years. And to me what update means is you look at goals because every item on our plan has a sort of this That was, let's say 2024. It has a thing it needs to be done in the next three months all the way up this is five years down the road and each thing has a specific on the Gantt chart has a goal for when that objective is completed so the first thing you do when you update a strategic plan is first you take an inventory of everything that you had on there alright And then, so met not met. Met not met and there's a summary of that.

Then what I see is because we have new commissioners and we have a new climate as well. We always have a new climate. We have a different council. We've had some wins that we're very proud of and want to take stock of and see how we advance those. And we have some things we've completely neglected. All right, and that's when the discussion becomes What do we do with those? And then then we have a discussion about what new things might be added that we missed the first time

So that's what we do in our two years. So when did we initiate this two-year plan? 2000, 20... We

met in December of 23 so it would have been 24 when it was completed.

24.

It was around April yeah.

So then it goes through until 29. Yeah. Our plan okay. So with that understanding I would suggest that since it's just, not just but since it's a brush up that we stay with NUSA to carry us through the entirety of our five-year plan and that in advance of 2029 so in 2028 we go out with a strong RFP and take in many people including these candidates and others With more time, and more timing, and more thought. And with money in the bank because two of my fellow commissioners have made the point that this is a fair amount of money but it might be absolutely what the market bears so let's have it in our budget for 2028.

Sorry for being so lengthy but I suggest we continue with NUSA.

I want the new commissioners to see how we got to where we're at right now. All you've done is sat down with me and looked at my computer, but I want you to kind of see the process that we did this for. And I think this can be done in an hour, this part of it. Look at who our stakeholders are. Look at what our strengths, opportunities, weaknesses and threats and all that type of stuff and see look at our community and get everything visualized so that you can see that and show us it will be able to already look at the ones we did over two weekends last time which Are up there but then I think after that it'll be a quick inventory I mean, a good plan with these steps is just met not met. Met not met. You don't have a pity party about whether you did it or not.

You just say that. I'll be right with you Pam. But then we say did we miss anything based on what the new Climate is right now, you know Mayor Andy wasn't even here mayor. Andy was our biggest advocate to increase Grants to the community and we want to make sure that that That wind isn't just seen as something is behind us but something that we learn from build from make them proud of You know the process make that look like a worthwhile expenditure from the city public art as you know has been It has been neglected and we've started this process to first assess what's, where is it? What is it? Who owns it?

And then beautifully bring the Trimpin Sound Arch back up to par. I know that Christine has well thought out plans but we can turn that into a five year sort of public art plan as well in more detail now that we've been through that process as well. Education, you know what a success we have from our seminars. The mentor thing hasn't started so it'll be one of those things not met but we look at it and say well did we not meet it because it wasn't important? I don't think we're going to say that. We're going to say this is not met probably Partially because it went away during COVID and we're kind of rebuilding it at this place. And we'll set that sort of plan out, because under education there's like 10 things that we may or may not have done.

We do have mentorships

going by the way. Oh good. It's

been delegated into the community.

I just wanted to cover our three most important areas that we do and in terms of communication we've done very very little And we have some important things that didn't specifically get into the plan, that are sort of in the legal framework of how our public art fund is funded. Where's the money? How is it calculated? How does that compare to other cities? That's something I know was missing detail from what we had before.

I'm looking at Bradley and thinking about the bowl, you know just because you were asking about the bowl and music. And that never crossed our path here. Our Parks and Rec's connection is very strong and well it has been weak but is getting stronger. I just saw where they got Jim Bailey The school teacher as a commissioner, Tuesday night they approved him. And he's very excited and I've been talking to him too.

So what I'm leading toward here are the other areas where technology which is again where we have some money left and that's a complicated thing but I did get the attention of council and of county as well And there's an understanding that this technology can't be something that probably we just do. But we have been a strong voice in pushing for that because we want to become a center hub and spokes, not just physically like with the dream of an art center but also information wise.

And that requires technology as well. Commission health was last thing. We've done a lot of good things and one is going to come tonight. You'll hear about a little small things that keep the Commission healthy and that's very important and Andy's taking note of that And he's going to do something with counsel around the same thing as well. So what I was going to suggest in terms of emotion Is that?

you know, I like noosa as well but I want these other people to be part of what we do in the future maybe even be present and Is to make a motion such that sometimes it is the council where they They let the city manager work out the contract sort of so my motion I'm thinking of putting it on getting an hourly basis contract so that we have the flexibility to kind of either save money or save time or fit with our schedules as it comes around. I still think she'll probably want to, whoever we choose will want to interview each of us and I think that's something we do in our own time But then how we actually do it, whether that needs to be spent a whole weekend or maybe a couple evenings or something like that. I think will come from that the fact that we're starting from something already so I think there'll be a way in the money side there'll be a way to address it.

Uh, I-I do remember when we did this initial thing that sort of the typical cost for something like this if you're down in LA or something was in the ten to fifteen thousand dollar range for a full strategic plan uh-uh facilitation What we have here is applicants who are part of our community, and I know they're all flexible in terms of the costs. But at the same time, we want to be respectful of that part of our creative economy as well. Yes, Pamela?

Okay. I don't see why we need a facilitator because we all get along. I think if we sat down for a couple hours, maybe dinner publicly in Kent Hall or something and talk this through, we have the map that we created with MNUSA before and I love NUSA so I have no problem hiring NUSSA to come back. However, to me I just don't think we need it.

No, and you've shared that. We voted on that I guess so we're sort of that's kind of behind us But we may not in the future. I saw the value simply because I See these foundation documents that we have you know that we that we did You feel this way because you were part of making them but we have three council people that weren't I don't think

What we have on that chart and what we're, I think we maybe need a restart like oh this is what we did and this is what we want. Where are we at that? I think we need an accounting of us as individuals of what are we committed to do and what's the time frame we were willing to do it in but it just seems like if we could do this as a conversation, as a meeting with the five or six of us

Well, it may be then that we can get through it very quickly. That it won't be a two full day overblown process. But I do think it's difficult to be both an observer and a participant or rather a leader slash director and participant. And so for that reason alone, I support having a facilitator.

And Raq, please Karina.

I was thinking the same thing, Pam. And I don't remember voting on this but I'm sure we did and I do agree that it'll be better with a facilitator. She can bring out things that maybe we didn't think of or connect the dots but I think that a lot of legwork I'm going If it's required to have a five-year strategic plan by the city and update it every two year, which just doesn't make sense to me because it's a five-year plan updated every two years.

You'd actually have to update it every two years and then one year. So...

I got

lost. No, the one year becomes the five year but anyway you do make a good point. It seems redundant.

But at any rate It seems like if this is a requirement of the city, that maybe it should be in the city's budget to pay for...

We need to make sure our budget. Yeah. Oh I see the city's budget. Interesting. What's all their money anyway?

Right

and we're gonna have to I hear you. We'll

have to get money from

them.

Right, they should pay for it. Having to update our strategic plan is not part of our budget framework.

Well, we'll still have to go to city on this because we didn't specifically do it. And we're going to say that we have some money left from and we're not gonna spend it all too I'm gonna try to do this for a couple thousand dollars and not for ten yeah And still be fair, and I think we'll do it by just what you guys are talking about. But I like the...I don't know. I came from the corporate world. We always had a facilitator and we did it every year.