City Council — 2020-04-14

Will the clerk please call the roll?

A brief overview, this item is on the agenda. We put it on the agenda so that we could talk about any needed responses related to the coronavirus. We've talked about it in the past at the last meeting but everything is very quick moving with this issue so we wanted to make sure that we have it on our agenda We reported last meeting about some of the actions taken and the staff report includes a timeline through early April. Since that time, we put up public health order out last week requiring face coverings at essential businesses throughout the city and we also extended permit timelines By 180 days because a lot of permits are running into time issues because of not being able to move forward with them during this.

So we put that order out last week, it went into effect Friday and so face coverings are required throughout the city. We also continued over the weekend To work with the farmers market to, with the goal of trying to reopen in the next couple of you know next week or two weeks depending on we've given them a list of requests that we've asked for. So we're continuing to work with them on that. We're also working on are we developed a trail process that we've been rolling out where we have blocked traffic on North Signal to prevent big crowds of people That would violate the social distancing or I'm sorry, I've been told that we are calling that physical distancing now. So the physical distancing requirements and people may have noticed if they notice that there were road closure signs and our police vehicle was out there and there were some no parking signs that was all to try to help maintain physical distancing.

That seems to be working. The only complaint we received this week about a trail was actually about a trail out Outside of city limits, we received no complaints about any trails within the city. And so those are the two main things. We've gotten an updated plan from the farmers market and we're working through some final details with the goal of trying to get them reopened.

And those are the main issues. The one other item I'll just note is we have received a public Health notice to close a business that the county has deemed as non-essential. The county has the authority to declare those and so they have sent us an order declaring a business that way we disagreed, so we had conversations with the county but ultimately they have the authority and have ordered the closure of that business.

Can I ask a question? Is it okay? About the face covers, my understanding is that it's for the city of Ojai not Miners Oaks. Correct That's correct. Yes, that's just adding to the confusion because I had got an email complaining about Ace Hardware and that sort of thing but is we just you decided that this was merited even though it's not countywide? Is that correct?

Yes we did and it's you know we've continued to say this that Ojai has special circumstances and challenges that other parts of the city or of the county don't have Um, our average age is higher than any other city within the county. That's a concern with the coronavirus. We have a closed environment, uh, you know, with the Valley that's a concern and um we want people to be able to shop locally without having to go outside of the Valley to possibly bring something back so we're trying to think of ways to make it really safe for people to do that but unfortunately at this time only the City of Ojai has done this within the County And this morning at the Board of Supervisors meeting, Supervisor Parks did ask if the county would consider it.

And I think that they have talked about they're weighing the pros and cons but they haven't made a decision yet to implement this county-wide.

We might just talk about that tomorrow

in

our 1030 meeting Okay now and my other, what was my other question? Oh are we going to be discussing Ben Franklin and the farmers market with this item or?

So this item would be the item we could discuss those under.

Yes okay all right thank you

I have a technical question before we move on with the agenda. On my screen, I have been watching and I thought that Susan had become paralyzed then I realized that it's merely a photograph of Susan that is stuck and then I noticed that my picture on my screen is also stuck. Is there something that I'm doing wrong at this end or is there something at the other end that would allow the camera to go back and forth to the speakers?

You know, I'm noticing Mayor Johnston that it appears your picture is the one that's getting stuck that I could see. So I'm wondering if it's your network and just let me ask.

Yeah. The other thing is Johnny on a, because you're using an iPhone, I think it comes through at a, your picture looks a lot better than everybody else's so that's good resolution comes through a lot higher. So I think that's why it's a little more jittery.

It takes more bandwidth. Yeah. Yeah, we just confirmed with the IT that's what it appears to be.

Okay well then I'm just getting audio and I'm sitting here looking at Susan.

Is there something wrong with me?

Not at all. I just couldn't imagine you sitting that still for that long, and then I realized it was just a photograph. Yeah, I'm not

going to respond to that question.

For what?

And

Johnny, you're

not aging. Remember that because you're not moving. You're not aging so therefore... Yeah right okay well it's

a yoga pose so we're both doing shavasana.

Johnny look like you're hiding a ventilator under that bandanna

Yeah, right. I was going to even pull it up but I can't because it just looks like I got my neck brace on

Randy. The only thing...I've been on a number of these Zoom meetings if everybody mutes it when they're not talking sometimes that can help the jitteriness of the video because the audio is trying to pick up every noise so sometimes that can help if it gets

But what I have is just nothing, it's just the pictures. So I guess I'm on audio so let's proceed with the meeting. Susie did you have another question or did we move past

that? No, I just didn't know how we were gonna proceed. I'll leave it up to someone else. We're gonna discuss Ben Franklin, is that correct and Farmer's Market?

So under this item, yeah. Any necessary response to the coronavirus? The intent was to be able to talk about any necessary response to the coronavirus and items related to that so the farmers market and Ben Franklin if there's questions or concerns those would...this would be the item to discuss them under.

Well, if I can say one thing. I want to support James real quickly on the mask situation and I just wanted to add that when James talks about some of the unique circumstances in Ojai, I thought about it a lot and you know we have limited the size of our essential businesses specifically the grocery stores they've tried to expand before and we didn't let them and we should just all be aware that Literally, the grocery stores in Ojai are a different size and are more cramped than anywhere else in the county. And I think that's if not that we even needed any reason because I think it's a good idea anyway but there is clearly a difference in the limited number of essential businesses we have tend to be in cramped quarters.

I just wanted everyone to know that I think that's a good fact that separates us from some of the other county and supports why we live with the mask order.

And wearing the masks is for the benefit of the clerks and the people working in the store every bit as much or more than it is for the customers. Over 40 people working in grocery stores have died of the coronavirus nationwide, so maybe their employer didn't provide them with much protection but we don't do something citizens when we go into shop. It's pretty hard to get through the register without getting in close contact with somebody.

Yeah, I respect the county's decision not to do it. I'm surprised but I respect it and I think that's okay but I am concerned if the county doesn't respect our decision to do it and I think that we have every good reason and the cost benefit analysis is pretty simple there's substantial benefit or at least some benefit and I think there's very little if any cost

so right can I American just yeah Randy I'm probably out in the In the world, probably a little more than most of you. And my observation is what we did was absolutely right. But also the businesses that I have entered like I was at a Wells Fargo Bank in Ventura today so I'm asked up And it was interesting. I was one of the only people wearing one, even the tellers weren't wearing them but obviously they're behind glass.

But if you go to Lowe's- You put your mask on and they didn't arrest you? It was a bank? No, I thought it would be funny. Imagine going to a bank with a mask on But if you go, I've been to Lowe's and I've been to Home Depot. And I'll be honest with you, they are managing the people entering their store. They are all in gloves. They are all in masks. They have people cleaning the carts.

I mean, they've really taken it seriously. So I agree with Ryan. As much as I'd like to see the whole county do what we're doing, I do respect the fact that there are a lot of players out there that are doing what's right.

Yeah, I'm with you Randy. I've heard that I think some Vons is even outside of Ojai are making it mandatory to wear face masks or other stores are anyway which is a pretty good indication that if the private businesses are seeing some value in it that we're on the right track

Well, and if you're operating a business outside of Ojai, you have to have a business plan. You've got to provide wash stations. There's a lot of things that you're required to do. So again, they're doing a lot. We just don't see it but they're doing a

lot. Let me make one more comment. I agree that is really good prudent The mask inside due to all the exposure, especially for the cashiers and do the cramped quarters and all the reasons that you gave. But I'm still seeing a lot of people they'll be the only person for miles around wearing a face mask. And I don't know if they're doing it voluntarily or because they think they have to. So I think it's good to clarify so that people don't get burned out on this. I want people to wear the masks indoors where it's appropriate But they should know that if they're out walking at 6am, walking their dog and there's no one in sight, they do not have to wear a mask.

That's

correct. But our directive doesn't say that, it says entering and inside an essential establishment has nothing to do with the... I've answered, I don't know how many emails about where to wear them? And it's like no, the answer is in not outside. It's a private choice out

there. Randy, not to nitpick just to me, I think outside except for the farmer's market potentially. Where I think there's, except for the point. That'll have

a different policy.

Exactly just wanted to thank you. But

I think that because I'm seeing so many people even people riding bikes wearing a mask, I think there's still some misunderstanding with the public and I think it's good to make clear while we're on this subject that when people are out in the fresh air and there's no one around they do not have to wear a mask unless they want to, that's fine but they don't have to, that's all.

Yes, that that's true We did a video update. Chief Rivera, who is here six feet from me, so he's off camera. But Chief Rivera and I did that update last week and we pointed that out but I think there is some confusion about it so we'll try to make sure to keep explaining that to people.

Yeah, James. I'll say too some of the confusion I think stemmed from there was a report out of somewhere that talked about heavy breathing and jogging and everybody saw that black picture with the kind of nebulous human and then there was a lot of debunking of that because it wasn't a verified study but regardless there's no problem right? You don't have to wear one when you're outside but you can. But if you're in an essential business in Ojai you need to.

Mayor, could I ask James a question?

Certainly. Go Bill.

James, what was the date that we're looking at extending, the county's looking at extending the stay-at-home order to again? I

believe it's May 15th is what Dr. Levin announced this morning.

I want to throw out a piece of good news there. The international health metrics and evaluation model Has California going to zero deaths per day in the state of California by May 15th? I'm looking at the model right now.

Okay, let's hope it works.

Yeah and they're also looking at by May 11 12 13 getting down to baseline in terms of demands on hospital capacity

Dr. Levin always does a good job of explaining in the meetings how, you know, the numbers right now are reflecting the efforts that the cities, the county, the residents, businesses, everybody's making right now and, you know, the fact that the numbers haven't been what people feared they would be and have been As positive as we could have hoped.

I think another comment on that in terms of the importance and support of face covering is when, to me, I got convinced when the percentages from research came out showing how many people are non-symptomatic but nevertheless contagious.

Right.

And of course our older population, but that's very significant. And until we can ramp up the testing either antibody testing or infection testing I think that mask face covering makes perfect sense. The governor in his news conference today mentioned that that's probably gonna be part of the protocols for reopening businesses. The CDC has said the same thing And so I think that we're on the right track in terms of establishing this protocol as part of reopening, as well.

My last comment is hearing Newsom's press conference today he was talking about setting up physical standards for allowing businesses to reopen and I'm a little concerned and maybe this also is associated with the Ben Franklin discussion That it not be just a big box kind of negotiation. In other words, we're gonna talk to the big corporates first before we get to the mom and pops. We really gotta make sure we have a seat at the table and protect our small business community because that's part of who we are as a community is not big box.

And I would help kind of a big box focus. I would hate for that to displace what we need to have in terms of the same emphasis on reopening our small businesses as maybe other cities would have on their big businesses, big corporate big boxes. But just a comment about how we can make sure we plug into this effort that the governor announced today.

Okay are there other comments on James report?

Johnny if I may.

Yeah Ryan.

First, I want to ask James you are. You talked to Dr. Levin today have Have you heard him retract or any other retraction or change of what I believe the last forecast that he was still standing by was 200 to 250 deaths in the county?

I think today, I don't remember numbers off the top of my head but he made a point and I'll clarify that today. I didn't talk to him today we I think he was on our call yesterday but today he did a presentation at the Board of Supervisors meeting which is available on the Ventura County website as well He did mention that the original forecast, that they had originally forecast up to a thousand deaths. And he said that they were currently at is it 10 I think that we're at currently? And he said that I think he said that they may not reach 100 which is again reflects all the work going into it. You know, he was saying it's not that the forecasts were off, it's that everybody's doing their part.

And we started early or earlier than the other state.

Well, it last I mean, however was a week ago. I mean he literally went from 1000 on Tuesday and changed it to 200 on Thursday. So yeah, I wondered if he changed it from there but that's all good news. My only other question or I should say my comment is on dovetails with what Bill was saying. I think that the county exactly what you were saying, Bill. I don't want to forecast what the county is going to do with absolute certainty but i'm concerned that the economy in the county that they're gonna start kind of starting it back up from what they see as the most important to what they see as at least important which I think from the county perspective would be getting the big box stores open and getting Car dealerships open, getting all those big tax base entities open for the county and then the big cities with probably hospitality in the tourism style industry last.

Okay, Ryan, a point of clarification. There is very little sales tax and commercial outside the municipalities so that's mostly for the benefit of the cities if they do that.

Oh, John, believe me I know but I still think that when you even for like the city of Oxnard most of the cities are all going to be consistent in getting their biggest tax base from that. And I think- Yeah, Oxnard and Canberra does

too.

Right, right. I just think that the county... And again, I am guessing frankly what I think the county will do but I am concerned that they may favor those style businesses because frankly they benefit a larger swath of the county than what is specific to our economics here in Ojai. And I have a feeling that we may, the hospitality slash tourism style industries are probably going to be the last to see things opened up and the most heavy restrictions on those.

Not that there's an answer it should be a science-based answer that we don't have yet but I do think it's time for us in Ojai to start thinking about Maybe how we can help facilitate the county to come to a decision to open up some of the more hospitality slash tourism style industries. And I think that small

retail

and specifically small retail too, which really tie together in our community especially. And I had a conversation, I called Jamie Fleming before our meeting today and I tried to get some feedback. And I just said look whatever the inn is doing and what their protocols and policies might be to open back up. I heard they're aiming for about June 1st as well. We may need to The city of Ojai and the valley may be in a position similar to the, the farmers market where we need to develop our own plan and tell the county hey here's what we're. Here's what we're proposing to be able to get these things open which may not be on the same schedule as everything else.

I don't know if that'll work or not, but I do think that we may be quickly in a position where being able to help that may help our local economy much more than the county is worried about it. Because they're looking at it from a little bit different standpoint.

I would like that to include realtors because they're taking a huge hit as my understanding just to even show a house. I was told they have to sterilize the house almost impossible

Mayor.

Yeah, Randy.

Again, it seems like this is somewhat of a comment session and Suze I hear you on that stuff. I think one of the most important things we do is we've got to put facts to a lot of rumors but so I'm not aware of things like that and you might be but I'm glad you're bringing them up. I think the most important thing that we do moving forward is that we participate our city manager and as many of us um participate in interacting with other council people in the county and that that we come up with with a uh with what ryan was saying maybe a list of our protocols.

I see the policies that we're putting in place and the policies of the county need to be need to remain intact And what we need to do is like, I believe is this plan that we're having the farmers market do. I could see us requiring all the other businesses and all the small businesses in our community come up with a plan that starts with maybe a 30% opening to a 75%, to 100% over a four month five month period.

But I agree, we need to be thinking as a team and as a solid body of how we see this envisioning going forward. And then talking to the people that we can to influence them especially at the county level because we're gonna be dictated just like this Ben Franklin, we're gonna be dictated by some policies that we may not necessarily agree with. That's why we need to be on the ground floor as to what is in the best interest not of just us but also small businesses in general. So I think we need to be proactive in that discussion with fellow council people of the cities and the county.

Very realistic about the dilemma that we face, which is we all know that we're heavily dependent upon tourism. Tourism by its nature is people coming and going from places unknown bringing in and taking out things that we can't see in the case of the coronavirus. So without testing good testing it's gonna be a real challenge to revive our economy in the short term.

I agree. That's why I don't, I don't see it being a short term. I see it being like I said to me, I see this being three to four months before we're where, where it's not, and I'm not going to use the word normal. I'm using the word 30%, 40% of capacity in our businesses exploding overnight. Um, and again, if we do something that we can manage, you keep the protocols in place, you do it incrementally so that you can measure what are the results?

And again, and hopefully have enhanced testing. There's just so much that has to be done. And again I think this body moving forward listening what Ryan and Susan and Bill and Johnny you've said, I think we're all on the same page. We just have how we're gonna communicate that and how we're gonna have our city manager who sits in these county wide meetings, what type of influence he can start generating? I think that's gonna be important.

But it's highly important that we do it coordinated with the county, because this is not an Ojai problem. This is a Ojai Valley, Ventura River Valley, Ventura then on out into the universe that what they do isn't gonna affect us. We have the blessing of being somewhat isolated and we also have the curse that if it comes in to our little area could be spread rather quickly so Okay, Richard James Do you have anything else on this item or should we go to the number three

question.

Oh, Susan,

I just want to make sure is, are Satisfied with the map and the plan of farmers market. It looked good to me, my feeling is that it's you know maybe it can't be completely perfect but it's certainly better healthier than being in an aisle at bonds or something you know the proximity in an indoor store I mean, I feel like we're holding them to a very high standard and I just want to make sure that they can reopen. What's the consensus as to the plan?

I'll

respond.

I knew you had a problem with the

Yeah, I think the most important thing is what's the goal? And the goal, you know, what are we trying to achieve by reopening this market and that is to provide fresh produce and farmer available generated food products to our community. It's not to recreate an environment like we've had in the past on Sunday morning going to the farmers market So to me, that's how I look at it is they've restricted the amount of people selling which is good. I don't think we need a tamale stand and I don't think we need anything of that nature.

And I think there are the way she went about 75 people. I'm not opposed to that but I don' think we need to put people going up one aisle and coming down the other aisle so there's an opportunity for interaction. I think you need to go, you need to shop, you need to leave. And if we create that environment, we're meeting our goal. That's my take. Obviously, and I believe ultimately and I've asked James to this that they go out there instead of waiting till Sunday morning at seven o'clock to set this up.

No one's in that parking lot close it down and go set it up on a Friday or Thursday evening and do a walkthrough and see what the issues are so they come Sunday morning when they're ready to open boom, they've got these problems pretty much solved. There's always gonna be concerns when you're moving that many people around but There's an opportunity there to see it, demonstrate it before you do it. And I think that's a win for us. But when it does open, it opens up smoothly and allows the people to shop and that's what we're trying to do.

And is that possible that they can set up that far ahead of time? Is that- They could

chalk it out, Susan. They could paint out their stalls. Yeah, they could align their pathways. They could talk where the station is. They can do that.

Why not? That sounds good

to do it with Greg and James get some input.

Yeah, that sounds good.

But you know if it's for essential nutrition what is the problem with and since this is a portable set it up and take it down why not do it over in the Nordoff high school parking lot where there's plenty of open space and plenty of parking.

We did initially request that, that was our first effort. They had several concerns about Nordoff that they mentioned including they were concerned that there wasn't enough shaded area for visitors that the permits go with the location so that they'd have to get all new permits from the county and And that was going to be a challenge and they couldn't get an answer on the timeline for that.

And then it would just discourage more farmers from participating, not wanting to go to a new location that was untested. So those were- Does

each farmer have to get the permit or does the farmer's market get the permit?

The farmer's market gets the permit.

That sounds like more of an excuse than a reason. I can't believe that it'd be that hard to go over to a high school in an open area and get a permit. They do it all the time for carnivals, and all sorts of things year round. I don't know why they couldn't do it for something as established as the farmer's market but I don' think they wanna do it so okay enough. I won't beat that one to death. Is there any other comment regarding topic of the virus?

Well, at least we didn't hear that they couldn't do it because of the cutout at Nordoff. Thank God.

I didn't

hear that. No, Johnny, I heard this. I think...I don't know if it's an issue with the...because I think the county has to inspect the facility. I don't know if the county is doing inspections. I don't know if County Health is...I

don't know

if they're working right now.

I think they needed three permits,

health

department, fire department and one other. The

state's Department of Food and Agriculture has to permit the farmers market as well. The basis for that requirement is so that the farmers can sell product without complying with the state's food and labeling laws, I don't know how fast the state's going to be willing to issue a new permit at this stage. The lack of that permit isn't something that would create liability for the city, but it would create possible liability for the farmers if they're... If the state enforces against them for selling products without having complied with the labeling laws at an unlicensed farmer's market. I don' know if the farmers are willing to bear that risk or not. Hence, the operator seems to be focused on trying to create a safe space at the current location.

Yeah, well I don't see that moving a permit what a mile and a half at most would be a problem if we got our legislature. But I'm one of the high risk people and I'm staying at home so I'm not gonna go facilitate it but it just seems to me that there is a problem that's being made larger than it needs to be. But if they got a good map then they can do where they are God bless them.

Are you saying that if the county was under better leadership, like its former CEO they would add it to?

That probably be a good idea. Okay next topic item number three recommended savings.

I think we're going to touch on Ben Franklin or James have you come to a conclusion on that

So my position on it is we've looked at it, we've analyzed the order and everything. The county has the authority. It's a public health order issued by the County Public Health Officer who is the voice for the entire county on these issues. So my position is that the county has that ability to do that. We obviously had some concerns and disagreed so the city My position is that we won't be doing this, but the county has the ability to do so.

And just to add to that I've also looked at it and had confirmed and conclude that on the present facts there isn't a basis to bring in city prosecution whether the county uses its wreaths enforcement tools will be up to the county if they do so the business may wish to fight. The last option before the council if you desire would be to direct a letter to go out back to the county asserting the problems with the county's current order.

Whether to do so or not is a policy choice, it may be viewed as a shot across the bow. It may also be viewed as city interference in county public health operations.

I would like to, Mayor, may I speak?

Yes you may.

I would like to make the case that we should put together a letter because it circles back to the reasons I talked about earlier Uh, in terms of standing up for our business community that might be overlooked because of its smaller size and the fact that we don't have any by policy. We don't have corporate presence in this community. We don't want it. I think we should express our concerns with the sort of one size fits all lack of granularity and lack of collaboration that the county is exhibiting with this situation. So, I would argue that perhaps we do draft a statement as to what we see are the problems with their reasoning.

I support what Bill said. I was there 10 days ago, and all the cashiers were wearing masks so they couldn't control that the customers weren't wearing masks. I was so happy that they were open, that I could get things instead of having to order from Amazon. It was... Exactly.

Or having to travel down to the stores. Or having to

travel to a community spread area in Ventura that has a lot of spaces than we

do. What essential things do they sell there?

They have office supplies, art supplies. I had- School

supplies.

School supplies, I bought-

Masks,

face coverings. Yeah.

They sell face coverings? They sell the materials to make face coverings!

I know but we're really stretching it guys you know. I don't think so. The definition of an essential business is you can make the same argument for many many businesses and if all of I think it's fine if we want to send a letter to the county saying Ben Franklin's and dollar stores or things of that sort. I think that would be appropriate, but otherwise we're wasting staff time and annoying the county and I don't think it's gonna get us any place. I think we just asked them to explain their position a little more clearly and maybe they'd think it again. And maybe this is just coming from one or two people at the county if we could file something with Mr Bennett's office and ask him to get back to us why this is being done and what can be done about it?

Okay, I agree with that. Mayor, can I weigh in? Yeah, Randy. You know, I'm not opposed to anything like that. I just think that we need to be realistic here. James has spent over three hours with these people. They're not gonna move, they're not gonna change and to me the reality is there's no reason to get antagonistic with these people. We're gonna need them down the road to work with us and we have to work with them I don't know what the letter achieves other than again, just us being adamant or standing strong about something but it's not gonna change their opinion. And if James says you want to close do you do it? Let them put the resources into it and let them be the bad guy. We should just stand down and let them do what they're going to do.

I agree. This is a tough one, I think everything you just said Randy spot on I do not like the idea of this is not the battle for us to pick with the county I think there's better battles to fight even though I think it's righteous. The flip side We're a town of arguably a lot of artists and individuals that make their living a lot differently than the rest of this county.