City Council — 2022-01-18

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Okay. Thank you.

Thank you Gail and welcome everyone to the January 18th 2022 joint meeting of the Historic Preservation Commission in the Ojai City Council. James will you do the pledge for us please?

Well welcome everybody. Thank you all for being here. Thank you, Mayor and City Council for accommodating us. We think This is important, and we're glad that you're here to work with us and support us as well as supporting yourselves. I find the eventual timing of this meeting as compared to last fall's plans intriguing. Think about what we would have missed had we met last fall. No Caltrans report to support our ad hoc committee findings, no uproar over the possible development of the Nordhoff Grammar School property. The timing for this meeting today is a pivotal moment in time. When the options, pivots are to move forward in protecting the community we love and cherish for so many reasons or the option to be overwhelmed by influences that would remove our heritage and change our city to being far from what has brought us to this day over 100 years.

James will remember this, I remember sitting with James at a community meeting last year in Libbey Park where we featured the first responders who give us so much protection. I sat by James off to the west side and in front of us was the bronze plaque celebrating the first 50 years of Ojai. I can see James smiling. In our discussion we asked ourselves what could we do now to properly celebrate our city's Ojai Centennial?

Today is that day when we decide to put forth something so few cities celebrate, our own centennial with our own downtown historic district. The HP Downtown Historic District Ad Hoc Committee comprised of Commissioner Gina McCattin, member Craig Walker, early member now Vice Chair Cindy Convery and me present to you a slideshow put together by Gina that will walk us through the centennial history that brings us to this very day.

We ask that you have your three items before you. The proposed downtown historic district map, the city qualifications might be upside down and the list of all the different landmarks. Now if you don't have them, don't worry we'll be walking through it. Let's see, so we also ask that you note the applicable slide number on your questions. That will make it easier for Gina to return to it. Following a few brief comments after the slideshow, the HPC commissioners are happy to answer questions.

And now I present to you the slideshow put together by Gina that's been previewed six times each time with changes. So Gina take it away please.

Hey, I'm going to share my screen. Okay. Can everybody hear me well?

Yes. All right. Let's begin. Hello. Thank you for your time being here tonight. It's been a long time coming. We first presented an idea for downtown historic district, a few years ago at our last joint council meeting. At that time it was very early in the game and merely an idea. It was before COVID and it was built around the idea of large scale reports that had us requesting a great deal of money to be in our HPC budget We left that meeting feeling like we had the support of the idea, but there was a warranted hesitancy about the cost.

We decided to go back to the drawing board and begin our own research through an HPC ad hoc to really take time to understand the area and the history, the need, and the benefits as well as the costs. Then COVID happened. In fact, COVID happened right at the early stages of our ad hoc And our next scheduled joint council meeting. Our meeting was scheduled just days after the city shut down at the time we pivoted solely to budgetary restrictions in this unprecedented time, so the project was created with frugality in mind.

One of the positive things to come out of COVID was time, lots of time. Brian Craig and myself through regular Zoom meetings met often to work to understand the area in every structure in it. And when we had scheduled HPC meetings, we gave updates. Jump ahead to this evening and the presentation before you is much different than the one we presented three years ago so much so that we ask that you look at it with fresh ears and eyes The first item to discuss is the map you have before you.

This is a working map that we feel best represents our research for downtown historic district. The map is shown as the entire district currently being discussed here tonight, west to east it's the phone company building through the Nordoff grammar school property north to the Thatcher library and south to the Ojai jail There are three types of structures within the proposed district, contributing landmarked, contributing historical and non-contributing. So we are using the same language. Let me explain each of the three.

Generally speaking, contributing means the property contributes through its own history to the fabric of the district and non-contributing means it doesn't. It's either too new, too altered or simply lacks the historical significance needed to be contributing We decided the most cost-effective way to do a downtown historic district would be to anchor the area with already landmark structures. By anchoring the proposed district with existing Ojai landmarks, we were able to get a good idea where the downtown historic district would make the most sense. Starting with our landmarks there would be no question of the contribution they would make to our district.

Currently, there are 16 landmarks in the prospective downtown historic district map. Those are in our first category of contributing buildings we call contributing landmarks on the map they are an orange and they are sprinkled throughout the district. The next set of contributing buildings are contributing historical. These are historical structures that our ad hoc had agreed through extensive research, that they substantially contribute to the history of Ojai's downtown and currently there are 44 of these structures and they are in gold in the map.

Each structure has been researched until all routes were exhausted. And either it represented itself to be, and there'd be enough information to be a contributing resource like Bill Baker's Ojai Bakery building or defaulted to be non-contributing. Properties in the proposed district must meet at least one criteria to be considered contributing, and some meet many. A criteria like Criteria E for example would describe its embodiment of elements of design details materials or craftsmanship that render it architecturally significant Through discovery, we learned that many of these historical structures already had historical reports either by the property owner or the city. They also might have reports done by the County of Ventura for their research on Ojai's history.

These structures are resources seeped in Ojai history with good documentation which includes information from the Ojai Valley Museum The Ojai newspapers through the years and the Ojai history website maintained by local historians through published articles and thorough interviews with longtime residents, as well as being well documented in the historical books published on Ojai history.

At the end of the day, if our research didn't produce enough well-documented information then the property was deemed non-contributing structure. We struggled with a few properties understanding that they brought some history to the district like the Susan Cummings Bliss Yogurt Building others though were more obviously non contributing like the Chevron Station So non-contributing properties are gray on the map and they are structures that are included in the downtown historic district based solely on their geography. And as you can see here, they are mostly concentrated behind the arcade and in the blocks of Matillaha and Aliso.

They're either built after the 1950s, are clearly not associated with a downtown's historic theme or they do not meet the definition of a character defining element of the district. Our historic core has been an important resource for the people of this valley for generations, from our valleys deep history of the Chumash to its strong ties to the Mexican ranching community. Families put their roots here because they understood its value, it's beauty and significance And Ojai's downtown grew out of a desire to build community.

As the city celebrates its centennial, we can follow the path of these last 100 years to know that the architecturally rich downtown that we know today happened in large part of a Sandipetus partnership with a generous winter resident. By 1914, Edward Drummond Libby and the newly formed Ojai Valley Men's League set out to discuss ideas for improving the little dilapidated western town of Nordhoff and transforming the town to the beautiful city that stands before us.

Mr. Libby had clear ideas based in the city beautiful model, which promoted the idea that beautifying a city is beneficial to its residents because the beauty of a city would inspire civic loyalty and strong commerce and a sense of community to raise each other up and to create something bigger and more cohesive than simply a beautiful building or a nice park.

Libby's idea was to take this model used for large cities and adapt it to our small town while enhancing the aesthetic of its natural environment, one that was cared for by Ojai's original Chumash people. In fact, it is no coincidence that the towers, domes and arches of the downtown complement the surrounding trees, rocks and mountains. By making these harmonious decisions for the future of Ojai and its many inhabitants, the newly transformed downtown Ojai would be considered as a whole instead of by its parts. And Mr. Libby created the downtown as an asset to the future of the city.

Mr. Libby hired the impressive San Diego firm of Frank Meade and Richard Riqua to coordinate their collective efforts and to create an artistic, cohesive design. Meade & Riqua's Spanish-style architecture was meant to capture that old world look of California's mission days. Although mission style Spanish villages never existed in the 1700s, the new Ojai buildings were designed to look as though they had been built by the Spanish. Requa even instructed that vines should cover the new buildings to enhance the illusion that they had been here long ago in the 1700s. So, in a sense, Ojai's downtown business district has been an historic district since it was built in 1917.

By 1916, construction began on an arcade, a post office, a pergola and the civic center. These new buildings designed according to city beautiful principles transformed Nordhoff's ramshackle collection of aging old wet stores into a quaint Spanish village with unifying designs and themes based on mission architecture. Mr. Libby then challenged business owners to get involved by beautifying their own stores and properties, and everyone did. In fact, not only did the town merchants and residents rise to the occasion, but the county did as well. There was a clear acknowledgement that there was something here to be recognized. Soon, the county paved roads into Ojai. They brought in better infrastructure, and the future of Ojai was brought into focus.

One of the first, Ojai was one of the first small town Spanish style city beautiful makeovers and good choices were made at the beginning. In fact it was such a success at the time that other towns began to emulate our mission revival architecture model even our neighbors in Santa Barbara. You can see Ojai's mission revival influence in other cities including San Clemente Rancho Palos Verdes Westwood and Rancho Santa Fe Downtown Ojai was built as the civic center of our town, and that is how it's continuously been utilized over the last 10 decades.

Years of celebrations, gatherings, festivals, parades all happen right here in our downtown. And it was done so thoughtfully that no matter what changes were going on in the world little was needed to change the downtown to keep it relevant. So when you're on Ojai Avenue, you are seeing the same sites that people saw a hundred years ago. And that's miraculous through two pandemics fires earthquakes war in progress our downtown still stands as it did 100 years ago because generation after generation of business owners and property owners and city council members mayors neighbors and stakeholders through many changes believe that this was worth preserving And miraculous is the perfect word to describe it. The Libbey Park pergola was demolished in 1968, but entirely rebuilt in 1999 because of a renewed understanding and appreciation of Ojai's rich history.

And it was done consistent with the secretaries of the interior standard for reconstruction using the original designs. There was also a time in 1990 where the whole arcade almost came down. How detrimental that would have been to the charm the draw and the appeal of our entire downtown. So here we are, and we might walk away this evening in agreement that the downtown is worth preserving to keep Ojai unique and beautiful and valuable and historic but what about the next commission or city council? What about 20 years from now? What about 50 years from now? That is why now is the perfect time while celebrating Ojai's 100th anniversary to formalize a Downtown Historic District. Let's talk about why.

I know a lot of people will automatically think, oh no more red tape, more mountains to move when you want to do anything in a historic district. But the reality is you will find more lenient building codes, more access to tax credits, more flexibility and protection. Let me explain. In most cases, property owners already face rules regulations and guidelines for structures in the downtown area. And it's often often cumbersome and confusing streamlining the overlays and guidelines within a historic district puts the regulations all in one place making clean and concise.

Historic contributing buildings are currently part of the overlay and follow guidelines that have already had them coming before the city, as well as the HPC for input. Our landmark structures also have a set of rules and guidelines and often taking advantage of Mills Act tax incentives Speaking of incentives, there can be financial incentives for contributing property owners in a historic district. The city can provide incentives like reduction in permit fees. Also there are ways for the city to adjust tax code for contributing properties and historic district so contributing properties could apply for the same Mills Act tax credits that currently only available to our landmarks Mills Act tax credits encourage property owners to renovate and restore some of the historic features that may have gone missing over the years.

And being part of a historic district gives property owners that extra push because historic building codes favor old structures with relaxed zoning requirements. The California Historic Building Code is one of our most valuable tools for preservation. It provides alternative building regulations for permitting repairs, alterations and additions necessary for the preservation and rehabilitation of California's historic resources.

And the benefits don't stop there. Property owners have available to them federal tax credits, not a deduction but $1-$2 tax credit of 20%. There's also a relatively new incentive from the state of California, historic tax credits up to 25%. These federal historic tax credits can be combined with California's historic tax credits Our property owners can apply for these incentives and tap into these financial resources of up to 45% in tax credits to restore and rehabilitate their properties.

This couldn't be more timely as we have three anchored properties in our historic downtown right now that can utilize these savings. The El Roblar Hotel, the Ojai Theater and the Nordoff Grammar School. These historic preservation tax incentive programs encourage private sector investment in the rehabilitation and reuse of historic buildings. It creates jobs and is one of the nation's most successful and cost-effective community revitalization programs.

Of course, rehabilitating and usage of tax credits would be voluntary. But when property owners and merchants are part of something bigger such as a historic district it comes with the town pride just like 100 years ago when the downtown had its makeover shopkeepers and property owners rose to the occasion and created a cohesive and beautiful downtown experience And beyond free reductions and tax credits, there are other factors that make being part of a downtown historic district valuable. Merchants do well in historic districts by choosing to form their own group like merchants of the Ohio Historic District so instead of thinking of themselves individually they can market themselves as a whole saving money reaching a larger base and increasing sales.

Historic districts are known to have a positive impact on both residents and tourism. There are even social and psychological benefits from living and working in historic districts. Tourists that search for quaint historic towns look to immerse and educate themselves in its history because structures in the historic district become alive, and they tell their story.

And for the historic district's non-contributing structures, we might ask that the changes be brought before the HPC but 99% of the time those changes wouldn't be an issue. The requirements would most likely be the same as they are now. A non-contributing property in a downtown area would already be in talks with city planning if they were considering a large scale project.

The location is already bound by zoning and regulations. For a historic district non-contributing property, we would simply need it to be appropriate and complementary and compatible in size and not distract from the historic character of the district. And that doesn't mean a new structure or remodel should even be in the Mission Revival Spanish architectural style In fact, it's fine that it isn't. I know the city has a long standing guideline about Spanish architecture in the downtown but really you should be able to look at a historic district and know what's contributing and what isn't for the City of Ojai to have a Downtown Historic District means that we won't have to run out and landmark contributing buildings because the district itself would create a preservation umbrella collectively they have meaning until Ojai's rich history Creating a historic district can keep Ojai valuable, strengthen neighborhoods, provide an incentive for rehabilitating historic buildings and promote a sense of neighborhood and community pride.

The preservation of Ojai's past is a key to building a prosperous and sustainable future for Ojai's economy. So what would make Ojai downtown a historic district? What is the criteria and how do we know for sure? Well, as we've shown you this evening from our research and documentation, we have every reason to firmly believe that our downtown is worthy of historic district designation. Luckily though, you don't have to take our word for it. We have an incredible 242 page document made for the city of Ojai that backs it all up.

A refresher, if you haven't had a chance to read it. The city of Ojai wanted to make improvements for pedestrian and bicycle safety on Ojai Avenue. Because there would be use of federal funds to do this, it triggered a bunch of necessary reports on the area. In fact too many to list now but you can find them on page three of the Caltrans document. Many of these reports focus on historical resources and list the big guns in preservation, including the California State Historic Preservation Office, the National Register of Historic Places and the California Environmental Quality Act or CEQA. It's an incredible find and we are so grateful to get our hands on it!

This document is well worth the read and I promise you, you will learn something. I know we all did what's most interesting about this professionally and thoroughly research report that came out in April of 2018 apart from the fact that the HPC never seeing it is that it came to the conclusion The same conclusion as our HPC ad hoc, that our downtown is a historic district. The difference is we looked at it for local historic preservation district and the Caltrans document determined our downtown to be eligible for both nationally and state of California recognized historic districts which is pretty incredible.

Which explains why although the maps have the same shape in much of the same information Our HPC ad hoc map covers a slightly larger area because criteria for local landmarks will usually be different from national landmarks. Our dates of significance are also different from local downtown historic district, ours are from 1874 to the 1950s while the Caltrans document honed in on the dates of significance being 1917 to 1929, the Libby period of transformation to Spanish revival architecture.

In fact, the State of California Office of Historic Preservation concurred with the Caltrans Report findings. As a result, Ojai Downtown Historic District is now listed on the California State Registry as a recognized historical resource. What we have here is the glory, but without the financial benefits. So now it's our job to take our research and the conclusion from the Caltrans document and to give formal local historic district status here in order to help property owners ask excess tax benefits and incentives.

It's most likely that what we have here is a district within a district. A National Historic District would be part of our Local Historic District, one that focuses on a more defined narrow scope of history which has already been evaluated and found eligible for the National Register of Historic Places. Our local district would reflect the growth and development of the downtown from the founding of Nordhoff to the historic area covering more themes and more periods of history and architecture than the Caltrans defined district, which focused once again on Libby's vision and transformation to the Spanish revival architecture. But our focus tonight is a local historic district over the next months, our ad hoc can review and research the state and we can't see the last line on this, the state and national historic districts but what we wanna do is focus on this tonight.

This is what we're here to talk about So what we are hoping for this evening, we would like to have council support to formalize a historic downtown. Not only has the HPC ad hoc produced solid thoroughly written research documentation that our downtown is worthy of designation of an historic downtown but we have an independent agency report created for an entirely different reason and purpose come to the same conclusion, a wonderful if not incidental by-product So what's next? Well, assuming we do have your support. We would like to be ambitious with this and create a timeline that gets this to you for vote no later than June so we can honor Mr. Libby as well as the citizens of Ojai's past present and future. And to get this done before our year long centennial celebration ending this August.

So at our February HPC meeting, we will deal with any boundary or other issues and prepare the documents for recommendation to council At our March HPC meeting, we will have a public hearing and make a formal recommendation to council. That will start the clock. We will then have up to 90 days to assist the development director in any way we can to get notices out to affected property owners, hold public information meetings, educate property owners, shopkeepers and other stakeholders. By the end of May, we would like to see this on your agenda. And if we've done our job here, our nomination will be adopted by resolution as Ojai's Historic Downtown District.

So today, 100 years later the responsibility rests upon us. The city of Ojai local businesses and townspeople have discovered the importance of preserving this downtown. A formal historic district will not only provide guidelines for protecting the historic architecture that already exists but it will provide guidelines for future development of the downtown to ensure compatibility with its character and vision On August 5, 1921 the city of Ojai was born in part to ensure that the seed that Edward Libby planted a beautiful historically themed commercial district would be nurtured as the city grew and prospered. And now the question is can we use this centennial as a catalyst to formalize this and get it done? Because if we don't then who will?

Thank you.

Nicely done.

It was absolutely beautiful, so beautiful it's just it's so inspiring

and fabulous presentation I can tell there's a labor of love and professionally done lovely

you live in a beautiful place

yeah

thank

you so much Gina stunning very interesting informative And I love the whole idea of wrapping around the centennial. It just feels very auspicious and timely.

Absolutely.

Mayor, how are we going to do this? Are we going to do a round robin or are we gonna ask? How would you like to proceed?

So Brandy let me jump in here if the mayor doesn't mind Thank

you.

Great, thank you. So what does the historic preservation hope to come from this two things appear on the agenda. The number one item is the designation of the Ojai Downtown Historic District, it is that this better commission and committee have been working on in our we are asking for your support and moving ahead. With that support as outlined in the slideshow,

Thank you, Brian. Much appreciated. Would it be possible to unshare your screen?

Are we are we done? Do we is does anybody did they write in any slide numbers down that we want to refer back to before I share

Good question.

Anybody? I don't. Okay, stop sharing. Yes. Okay. Thank you. Yeah.

Thanks. Well any questions for Brian or the commission from anyone? Randy?

I have a number, so I'm just gonna do some... I'm not going to hog the show here. I'm just going to ask a couple and then let someone else speak and just work my way back through. The landmarking of the properties within this district provides the owners of these properties, the opportunity to seek a mills. What's the term I'm looking for? A Mills Act or a mill reduction in their taxes am I correct?

Yeah, so um and I see Lucas is with us. Um what it is is uh for example uh an entity within that downtown historic district that is not a landmark at this time would then have the opportunity to apply for land marking and then be eligible for the Mills Act. Uh the way we've discussed it is that normally if someone was doing a landmark a historian to prepare our HRR report for

them. Okay, you're going too far down the discussion on that. I'm just kind of trying to keep things simple. The district creates a bubble around these buildings or these sites and then it's up to the individual owners of these sites to now ask for landmarking correct? And then if they They can or you can, there's two ways of doing it.

Necessarily because they're part of the downtown district that That's one of the advantages of a district is we wouldn't have to go out and landmark each one of these because they're part of the district. So what would happen is that the tax code would be dinked ever so slightly, so it's not just Mills Act landmark properties that can access these incentives but contributing properties in the historic district as well. And then beyond those, then we have the federal and the state which is $1 to $1 45% tax incentives that they can apply.

So I'll, I'm trying to ask to gather more information but i'll just stop asking you just get to my point. How do we know that any of these reductions in taxes on these properties are going to be shared with the renters of these properties?

Well Randy I think that's...

Just say yes or no or can we or can't we or that's none of our business?

It's It's none of our business because it's the property owner's determination when they're determining their rent. I don't think the government can step in and tell people what to charge, but if you reduce a property owners cost of maintenance and cost of taking care of the property that can reflect in the rent we can encourage it but we can't demand it.

Well, that's what I'm trying to say here is just one of the conditions I'm looking at is we're creating an environment where a group of people who actually own these properties are going to get a reduction they might get. I'm not going to say they are. They might have the opportunity to reduce their tax base. And I'm just concerned with if you listen to the business owners in this community They're already talking about high rents that they're paying. So how are we going to, so there is no assurance that any tax savings on any of these properties that get landmarked will be passed on to the renters of these facilities.

That's correct, on the legal side there is no guarantee that any tax savings is passed to tenants it would depend on the terms of their lease typically a lease does not pass through such savings if you had a triple net lease it's possible savings would automatically pass through but no there's no guarantee for it and one other point I should note as Commissioner McHatton noted The city's current Bills Act code only gives eligibility for Bills Act property tax reduction contracts to properties that are either specifically designated as a City Historic Landmark or individually listed in the Federal National Register of Historic Places or the State Register of Historic Resources. As I understood it, the request to Council to contemplate but not make any final decisions tonight Is to amend that portion of the city's code to also extend the Mills Act allowance to properties that are contributing to a historic district.

And I wanted to clarify that is, that's a requested legislative policy change that the council could make should it so desire.

So should have that been a third? Request on their bullet points, or is that just something again? That we

understand it's down the road. It's subsumed within the first bullet but I wanted to make sure it's understood as a separate policy change

I think too what needs to be understood is that you don't get these tax incentives just because you happen to have your geography in the middle of a historic district. It is because you are taking money and you are upgrading, rehabilitating changing features that may have been lost like there's one property that's going to be on or maybe on a future agenda that was in our in our last packet for our HPC meeting and it was the building in downtown that has the bank vaults in the back. And they're looking into doing a landmark, they might not have to do that if they are part of the district we won't have to sit there and and do each little store in the downtown district. They will automatically be part of um the landmark of the district and so they won't have to be individually done but the whole reason why would be to access funds.

So these funds aren't just to make it so their rent could be cheaper for their tenant, this is preservation. This is so they can take that building and maybe put original window back in or put the original drop ceiling remove it and see what's under there and you know spend money and that money that they're spending they can get dollar-to-dollar tax incentives back. So it's not just based on geography it's for a purpose this money It's earmarked for preservation.

Two separate things, one are historic tax credits and that's when you're doing work on the building. You can qualify for historic tax credits when you are restoring a landmark property. The other item is the Mills Act Randy and a property owner has to apply for a Mills Act and you have to be granted the Mills Act and then the county revises your property taxes based on that contract Um, that the only properties that can apply for mill sec or landmark properties. What happens,

Cindy I thank you for that because I just want to jump in there real quick on what you just said, because I was, I asked that is the is the districting a balloon over all of these sites. And I was told, you know then I asked you each of them independently have to be landmarked and then if they would like the meals act do they each independently have to do so.

No, if you're in the district you're already landmarked. So now I'm hearing that if you're in the district you still have to request for landmarking?

No, the district is a boundary that defines the historic downtown core. That is the neighborhood it's a boundary. Is that correct Brian? Each and each owner, you some of the properties are already landmark like chaparral some of the properties can be landmarked because they qualify. The owners don't have to pay for an expensive historic report it alleviates all that expense, you can have their individual properties landmark They don't have to pay the expense, then they can apply for a Mills Act. There are still a few steps to go through. They benefit financially, fingers crossed that they're decent people and pass it on to their tenants.

Does that answer it? That's Mills Act, that's not tax incentives. And then they benefit from tax incentives if they decide to restore the property You know, repair the roof that kind of thing you can knock that off your taxes, you know with a 45% knockoff rate on the dollars. So, you know there are two separate items we're looking at tax credits and Mills Act, which are property taxes, and those are continually lowered every year your property taxes are adjusted. That makes sense.

Oh, you're fine. Like I said, I have more questions on this.

And if I could add one clarification there again is noted under the city's current code only individually landmarked properties or state or federally individually designated historic sites or historical resources are eligible for Mills Act treatment. Extending the Mills Act to contributing structures within a historic district would be a policy change by the City Council.

Correct.

Thank you. Great thank you Matt

Other questions from council members?

Yes, Bill. You have a pretty ambitious, first of all I support this goal and the schedule And I, especially well thought out schedule. It's a real commitment for this commission to do its part on it in terms of the hearings and talking to the property owners and things like that. And I just, I guess I want to hear just a reaffirmation that you're ready to take on this commitment. It is a big one.

Looks like we're getting hands raised, so. That's reassuring because it's and I see this commitment, I see this passion, the sense of history. It was a real eye opener for me to read the Caltrans report. It really advanced my thinking and I agree it is time to try to get this done for the centennial.

We've been very mindful if not I'm putting the, you know carriage in front of the horse here and we're waiting to get the go ahead from you so there has been no mention of it. There has been no mention of public outreach. We were just holding off after tonight that I feel like you know that's when that's when we start that's when we start working on the public Education part of it, but we are ready. I've been ready for a very long time, but in you know waiting for this meeting through COVID and everything But just not wanting to To just have this assumption that you're behind us. We need to hear it from you too first

Thank you Mayor Sticks and then we'll go to you, Randy.

I'm just curious Gina since you mentioned that has have you gotten any feedback whatsoever from any of the business owners who've heard about this or? We've

kept it really under wraps. We have not we've asked all of our commissioners not to discuss it yet until we got in front of council and it's been an unusual time because of you know waiting this three years since our last Our joint council meeting, but we did not want to have the community discussing it until there was a reason to discuss it. OK,

good job.

Yes. I also add that I didn't go out to discuss it with anyone, but the owners of Porch Gallery are looking to landmark their property and they called and asked me for advice. And they would be thrilled to be part of this because it makes that situation easier And I also wanted to put a historic core in perspective vis-a-vis the Chaparral development situation, which we all just watched unfold.

What happens when you have a designated historic register or downtown core and when you're on the national registers that the city of Ojai becomes... It gets on radar of other places like the National Trust. And what I learned during the Chaparral situation is that the National Trust actually has a task force that's just designated to school adaptive reuse. It's a nonprofit, they would have helped the Chaparral School at no cost. They would have written the RFP, they would have provided consultants. These are all the types of things that downtown on the national register and on the California Register of Historic Places has access to so much Public Works and public government, that's not something they have to pay for. And I believe that the chaparral School District Ojai USD paid, you know, a certain amount of money to go through that situation that they just went through when they could have had that provided from these task force and public service groups.

So it saves them a lot of money. They're not city planners their school board members, they would have had planner step in, they would have had case studies on what to do They would have had an RFP written by a very professional group. They would have had informational meetings on tax credits and how to move forward. That's the benefit to Ojai, that's what owners look at. And when we go out to talk to people, that's the presentation. You know, that is the angle. The Raines family, Alan just having received the Lifetime Preservation Award speaks to Landowners on the arcade that really want to support this kind of thing. So just wanted to add that in.

Thank you, Cindy. Mayor Sticks? You still have more questions?

I'm just curious if in your discussion have you anticipated any reason why business owners wouldn't want this?

Well we actually have a business owner that's one of our commissioners unfortunately she's not here tonight so she has kind of been The token downtown business, she owns a business in the arcade. And so she has raised questions in our meetings when we've gone over this and brought that perspective to the meetings. But again, getting back to whether we have gone out. And I think as I explained last Thursday, we have been very careful not to overstep what we think is our responsibility and our purview. And in our thought it was to do exactly what we've done to bring it to the city council then based on your direction going forward to do everything we can to assist in getting the downtown historic district put in place.

Okay, thank you. So fabulous, thank you.

I did like to say that in our meetings especially our most recent ones with Commissioner Pribor there was an excitement among her and the people that she knows. It was audible that she wanted to get out there and start. She wanted to get a letter writing campaign. She wanted to invite every merchant to come to Libby Bowl when we were originally going to be doing this at the bowl And we were like, no, let's just wait till we get into council. But there seems to be an excitement at least coming from her and the people that she's reached out to. So I wish she was here tonight to talk about it but I did not...