UnGovr Transcript
iHow this transcript is madeUnGovr transcribes the official recording with automated speech-to-text, separates speakers by voice, and matches voices to the seated roster. Names and attributions are AI estimates and may contain errors.Verify any quote yourself: click anywhere in the transcript and the official video jumps to that exact moment, so you can check any quote against the recording.Scheduled start 6:00 PM · clock-time estimates pending review
0:00 – 0:003 turns
Good evening. Could everybody find a seat? And we'll begin.
OK,
call to order. We have a quorum. May we have the roll call please, Gail? Can we get silence in the house please? Hey y'all outside, we're going to get going. If you could come to quiet that would be wonderful. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Gail and Randy will you please
Agenda Discussionitems moved / continued / pulled, click to expand
Approval of the agenda?
Motion. I'll move to approve.
Second.
Yay or nay? All in favor?
Yay!
Okay, great. Alright we move on to presentations. We have a wonderful presentation tonight. A presentation of a plaque to Christine Golden for 14 years of service to the City's Arts Commission. It is my honor tonight to acknowledge Christine Golden's 14 years of service on the City's Arts Commission. Thank you so much, Christine! Christine was appointed to the commission in 2007 and served until May 2022.
During her tenure, she served as chair of the Arts Commission and also as chair of just about every arts commission committee most significantly 14 years as Public Art Committee Chair and Chair of CAPA that's Committee To Approve Public Art. Among Christine's accomplishments include leading the ad hoc committee that created four city public arts tours Researching and writing the downtown tour brochure.
Writing three additional public arts tours that are available on the Arts Commission website. Serving as liaison and CAPA chair for many public art projects. Creating and overseeing the paint box project that resulted in local artists transforming city utility boxes into works of art. Overseeing the creation and adoption of a city mural ordinance, instituting the Guardian Angel program that attends to maintenance of existing public artworks, creating an Arts Commission handbook and creating comprehensive spreadsheets detailing the city's public art and municipal artwork collections. And those are just the highlights.
How did you do that, Christine? I have had the pleasure of getting to know Christine and I so appreciate her wry wit and attention to detail. Her love of art and of Ojai shines through in her words and deeds. Christine, please accept this plaque as a symbol of Ojai's gratitude to you for your service to our town. Thank you for making it a more beautiful place which is hard to imagine given how beautiful it is. You did it!
First of all, I had no idea I could draw such a crowd.
Thank
you all for coming. You know a few of those folks out there. This plaque does not belong to me. This plaque belongs to a whole lot of people and I want to start by recognizing Maude Fink Gail Childress, Bert Collins and Nina Shelley who was on city council and who saw the wisdom of carrying forth the vision of Edmund Libby which I think you're going to hear a little bit more about that tonight.
I also want to thank, I thank all of them. They were my mentors. I also want to thank all of the commissioners with whom I served in particular Barbara Hirsch, Mimi Moore and Susan Amen who were public art experts. I knew nothing and Barbara Hirsch in particular took me by the hand and at the time Steve McCleary was the art liaison and sat with me and we went through the Public Art Ordinance word-by-word to write a private development handbook for that, and so that's how I learned what the ordinance says. Although Matt may think I never really learned what the ordinance said. So I thank all of them and in particular Marcy Tosher who never said uncle when I would just beat her up until she made sure that the Trimpen sound arch became a Trimpen sound arch so that when you walk under it It actually makes that percussive sound that it was designed to make, and that happened thanks to Marcy who never took her eye off the ball.
And I want to thank the art liaisons I worked with and there are many. Because they were so competent that after a year or two, you promoted them. And then I had to start all over again. So I want to thank Steve McClary. I want to thank Amber Young who was the first art liaison who was willing to sit with me and the chair of the community development department and go through the ordinance, and the person in charge of CDD said, oh I had no idea that was in the ordinance. And that was my job because that's why Sue Horgan said you can't have this ordinance. She knew there was no structure in place here.
And so the Arts Commission became an art department. And that's really why there's that long list next to my name because there was no one to do it. And I became the constant person throughout as there was this turnover constantly of art liaisons. And then, finally along came James Vega and after three meetings I think it was maybe two with James the next meeting we had because of course you meet all the time if your chair of the public art committee because someone's got to do that and he looked at me and said I took home the Art Ordinance last night and I read it and now I know what you're talking about And so he became an expert on the Art Ordinance and we had these incredible conversations about every public art project that came up was different than the one before, right?
And there was always something that we had to say. Oh you know what do we do with this and what does the ordinance say and let's ask Matt. You know I've learned so much. I loved what I was doing for 14 years because it was Constant learning. So I want to thank all those art liaisons and then after James, Luis Gomez because he was enthusiastic. He really wanted to be the art liaison. That was before of course they promoted him and made him head of parks and rec. And now who knows who's going to come along? Well guess who came along?
The wonderful Robin Godfrey.
Oh yeah.
And I knew I was stepping down and here I have Robin Godfrey and I captured her And I made her sit, and I made her listen and listen and listen. And I gave her my thumb drive, and all of my hard files, and everything. And guess what? She's so competent! She got promoted! And so we're back where we started because I don't even know who the, well not that it, I'm someone else has to figure out who the new art liaison is.
I also want to thank the members of all the committees, the ad hoc committees least deployed yet who would be here tonight and lived at Cottages Among the Flowers but she was She left because she knew she was going to get booted out of there. She helped with the public art tours as did Jackie Clark and Sammy Zahringer, and I probably... Oh yeah, oh God it'll come to me but there's another person. Ronnie Rodriguez, she was on that committee as well. So I want to thank all the committee members who worked with me. I did not do any of this by myself.
This was, this was other people doing what I told them to do. And if you ask him, they'll say that's true. Okay. And I finally, I want to thank you city council and in particular, I really have to point out that Bill Weirich always came to the Arts Commission meetings when it was his assignment to do so, and he was so incredibly helpful. And it was Bill Wyrick who went on a public art tour with me. It's not the tour I give the public, it's the tour I give to you guys.
And I think he'll tell you that each one of you ought to let me do that for you. I can still do that for you even though I'm not on the commission and until you go on that art tour, you really don't know what it is that we fight to protect here in this town. It is the vision of Edmund Libby. It is his vision so ultimately the person I thank the most is Edmund Libby because he knew how important it was to incorporate the art spirit into the town of Ojai and I always think of Ojai as having a kind of like a triple threat and There's this great nature, right?
I mean look where we are. And then there's the art spirit So Thank you everybody
Are we supposed to stand up? We're good.
0:11 – 0:1910 turns
Awesome, that's great. Thank you!
Christine, it's been very fulfilling to work with you and inspiring. And reflecting on the fact first of all don't go anywhere stay around tell us all what you think anyway you know and keep educating us but With your passion and dedication and discipline, you're leaving a legacy which is that you can't say any more about the highest calling of citizen involvement. So thank you.
Thank you. All right. Any commission reports, James?
No commission reports.
Okay, great. We will move on to general public communication and just a reminder these are items not on the agenda and because they are not on the agenda we cannot discuss them. When you make a comment, we're not ignoring you. We appreciate your viewpoint and participation. We can agendize for the future. Normally public comment is three minutes and normally if there are more than 25 comments on an item we reduce the time to two minutes. However, tonight we're discussing a very complicated project one of the most complicated We've had before us my choice is that we allow speakers the full three minutes Can I get a consensus from my council members?
I can sit With the understanding that we'll ask the public, since there probably will be a lot of speakers, that if they agree with the previous speaker they don't need to repeat what has been said. But the three minutes are especially important when you have new information to bring forward.
Okay, wonderful. Thank you. We will be using a chime as a gentle reminder when your time is up. Please respect each other's time and stop talking when the chime sounds. There's no giving away time to another speaker. Let's remember that while we may disagree on a topic, we are all gathered here together committed to community, democracy, civility, respect and compassion.
Please refrain from name calling, yelling or personal attacks. Let's choose to be our best selves and a beacon of civility and love for the world. Let's be the change that we want to see. On that note let's take a deep breath together before we begin so everyone if you could take a deep inhale And exhale. Beautiful. OK, let's move. So we'll begin with a general public comment. So we'll begin with Andrew Whitman, Carla Melson and Leslie Rulon. Remember these are this is general public comment.
Andrew Whitman?
I'm Andrew Whitman. I know there are a lot of people waiting to be heard on important agenda items, so I'm going to keep this brief. I'm announcing my intention to run for City Council in the 3rd District. For those that don't know me, I've lived in Ojai for over 50 years. I'm a Nordhoff grad and raised my family here. All three of my adult children currently call Ojai home but also struggle with the expense of living here. I am not a newcomer to public service. I previously served on the Planning Commission.
Over the years I have also been a vocal About land use issues and have attempted to point out when proposed policies or projects Created greater negative impacts than the benefits of the community Some of you will also recognize my name from my involvement challenging a false claim by the city of Ventura that they hold priority rights over our communities water I'll share more about my ideas about running for council.
Just wanted to let everybody know I'm doing something here, thanks.
Thank you Andy. Next we have Leslie Rule then Cindy Convery and then Ron Soberzano. Leslie Rule?
Hi, thank you for this opportunity to speak. I am just here to give you an update on the Recreation Department's pickleball conversation because why not? So mostly we talked about numbers We talked about the fact that the master plan that was done in 2017 the number of respondents Did not even the number of adult respondents for the recreation and fitness component did not even equal the number of pickleball players that did the pickleball survey So, and I wanted to kind of read you those numbers.
The sports and fitness and recreation this is from 2017 when pickleball was not a glimmer in anyone's eye had 145 responses 57 of those said they never played sports at the community parks 46 said they occasionally did and 42 said they often did. The pickleball survey, on the other hand, had 155 responses. Eight people play six or more times a week and I can tell you that number has quadrupled. 73 play two to five times per week and 42 play one.
So I am encouraging everyone to look at the numbers. I think we also need to look when we talk about neighbors and tenants who complained what numbers were talking about, are we talking about two or are we talking about five? As far as numbers go as well. One of the neighbors behind the pickleball court is 185 feet away That's almost two-thirds of a football field And there has been mitigation as you well know so I would say we really need to focus on the numbers here and And because the master plan was done in 2017, they are moving forward. They found a soil report so they no longer need to do that. So they're putting out an RFP...
I will do it. They are putting out RFPs for the courts and those are basketball and FUSIL courts. Had Pickleball been involved, that would have been the number one court that we would be looking for. The Pickleball community needs lights. You can't play You can't you it's too hot to play during the day It's too hot to play from 11 to 5. You have 200 Ohioans and Ojai Valley Residents who play pickleball many of them can't play in the heat of the day We need lights, so I suggested that perhaps The courts now that the RFP is going out for Zozoti in the master plan Perhaps the RFP could include Dual purpose courts, since single use is a concept whose time has come and gone.
Obviously there are the lower Libby Courts as well. So my suggestion to you folks and also to the rec department was that you should think about dual purpose courts with lights. It would be a benefit to the community health and wellness. Thank you so much for your time.
0:19 – 0:249 turns
Next we have Cindy Convery then Ron and then Jill Dolan.
Hi Cindy Convery. Oh hi Betsy. Thank you. You already addressed my comment about the limited time for public comments but that being said the last time I was here was in June it was a meeting just like this it was packed and our comments were limited to two minutes. I don't know my issue with it is where we are Ojai. You know, we the people who come here to make comments. We are Ojai. We voted for you. You represent us. We're your constituents.
So to limit our comments really limits Ojai and I think it's a much bigger problem that's happened in the last couple of years with the City Council agendas being so packed. You guys have a full time job and you're already working full time. So this is the staff is super stressed everybody's under a lot of pressure and I would love it if there could be an agenda item about looking at how to alleviate that. I'm sure you all have ideas because you live in it every day. It's super intense but I'm really grateful that you're letting us have three minutes tonight. It's impossible to make a cohesive comment in two minutes. It's hard enough in three minutes, especially if you're not practiced at it So hopefully we'll be able to find some solutions to make City Council flow better and take the pressure off everyone so I can Function better Thanks
Thank You Cindy next we have Ron Solberzano Am I saying your name correctly,
Ron? You're close enough. Solorceno is the last name.
Thank
you. Thank you members of council. My name is Ron Solorceno and I am the regional librarian for the Ojai Valley. I just wanted to give you a quick reminder to everyone here and everyone watching that there is one month remaining in the Ventura County Library's summer reading program for this year. The Summer Reading Program includes reading challenges for both children and adults, which you can join online by visiting our website. Participants can log their reading and be entered into various prize drawings depending on their age group.
Along with the Reading Challenge, the Ojai Library is also offering a number of special drop-in programs during the week. These include a Lego Club on Friday afternoons a board game session on Sunday afternoons, and a youth writers club on the second Thursday of the month. The library has also resumed offering its in-person story times for kids age 0 to 5 every Wednesday morning led by our youth librarian Becky Rowe.
On top of all of that, families can also reserve a spot for our monthly STEAM Lab programs. Those are science technology engineering art and math themed activities on the third Wednesdays of the month during the summer or our monthly Art Lab which is the first Thursday of the month We're also continuing to do our weekly pause for reading program where kids can read to therapy dogs every Wednesday afternoon.
So please contact the library for more information on how to reserve your spot for those events, and then finally we have bilingual musician and songwriter Nathalia is going to be visiting the Ojai Library on Sunday July 24th at 2 p.m. to offer an interactive musical performance for families to celebrate our summer reading program That's sure to be a lot of fun, and we hope to see a lot of you there.
That's all that I have for now. I appreciate your time. If anyone has any questions please don't hesitate to contact me or the library team. You can find more information about all of these events by visiting our website at www.vencolibrary.org. Thank you.
Thank you Ron. Next we have Jill Dolan then Steve Quillacy and then Anita Hendricks.
Hello council folks I'm back sooner than you expected me. I'm sure because we are still running the music man all people we're running the music man at the Ojai Art Center Theater. I want to tell you that we are sold out on our two remaining Sundays. Gee whiz! That means you have Friday and Saturday this weekend and next weekend to come and see the show I know you all read this in the Ojai Valley News this weekend, on Friday.
Ojai's Franklin Lacy, the mystery man of the Music Man. Well it turns out that if you come and see The Music Man, you will also be supporting Besant Hill School, formerly known as Happy Valley School. Franklin Lacy was the co-writer of the book of The Music Man. He was at one time, the headmaster of Happy Valley School and his widow left her portion or a portion of her portion of the revenue of The Music Man to the school so whether we're doing it or Hugh Jackman's doing art or anybody else is doing it they're getting some money from this and I know that everybody in this room And at home watching tonight, I want to support one of our great local schools and of course our Art Center. All right thank you everybody have a really good night.
Bye bye.
Thank you Jill. Next we have Steve Quillacy then Anita Hendricks and then Ray Powers.
0:24 – 0:303 turns
Thank You Mayor council members and city staff. I'm speaking at this item as a planning commissioner. I hope to speak later in the evening as a private citizen. I take issue with the way the Planning Commission has been characterized by this City Council on one specific issue and that is the cannabis industry. At our May 4th Planning Commission meeting, and I'm trying to be careful here to quote people exactly.
Mr. Weirich said, we have two reasons for passing all this cannabis regulations. First is diversifying our economy away from just tourist options. Second he said we have to strengthen our local cannabis industry. I have not heard a city council member Use those words to strengthen any other particular industry in this town. And it sounds a lot like we're picking winners and losers again.
In that same meeting, Jackie the lady from West Hollywood said it takes an hour or two before it hits you. And later Jeff Kroll had much the same to say no one will eat edibles only and wait an hour or two for it to take effect My interpretation is intoxication is the goal of the cannabis industry and its patronizers. Third, there were no lounges, there are to my knowledge still no lounges that we were supposed to approve for your approval, no lounges open in Port Hueneme or in West Hollywood.
There's a lot of talk about it, but nothing is working yet and there's no track record of any of this stuff. At the June 14th City Council meeting Chelsea said the drug war is over. I didn't realize this was a drug war. And one of your council members referred to archaic attitudes by the Planning Commission. I won't name names In that case because I thought it was extremely rude to refer to people who work for you volunteers who work for you like that.
It's clear to me that multiple members of this council consider your planning commissioners Either to be seriously ignorant or possibly stupid. It's hard to tell the similar. The symptoms are remarkably similar but if it is because we disagree with the answer that you gave.
Thank you Steve. Next we have Anita Hendricks then Ray Powers and then Martha Good evening.
I just wanted to bring to the council's attention a concern I have, which has to do with very low income housing. I know oftentimes there is mention of low income housing, which is good but I almost never hear very low income housing. We have a housing crisis, especially for low and very low-income housing. Housing costs have risen, incomes have gone down. A lot of the old units that were in back of houses that were for low income people to rent have now gone to Airbnbs.
So we have even less options than before for people who have low or very low incomes, and they are often afraid to speak out in public because they do not want to offend their landlords. A few years ago, I read that the Ojai City proper which is only four square miles we have the lowest per capita income in Ventura County. Even though the surrounding areas we have many more affluent houses, the city proper has the lowest per capita income in Ventura County according to a study a number of years ago.
Please, I would like the city to make this a priority and to keep in mind on the front burner the very low income people. People on Section 8 who have vouchers. I know several women who were on that program who could not find a place to live and lost their vouchers. They cannot afford the rents in Ojai without those. It's serious. Please do not overlook, especially the very low-income housing as well as the low income housing. Please make it a priority over any other housing developments or developments period. I know this sounds like an extreme thing to say and I know some people may not like me for it but that really needs to be addressed. Please make it a top priority.
Also, please consider making the Maori Way Houses a Historic Preservation, what they call a historic district immediately. Thank you.
0:30 – 0:3519 turns
Thank you Anita. Next we have Ray Powers and then Martha
May I say something there to avoid confusion if your comments are on housing and you're going to mention the Mallory and cottage items before us wait until we're at agenda number two.
Hi. First of all, thank you Council for setting up all the chairs outside and preparing for tonight. I have three brief items I just want to speak to you about. One is just a favor when staff has time or council has time to give an update on the ATP I've been trying to track it and I've lost track because I don't have any new information So I ride the bike line lanes almost every day, and I'd like to know what's and I know what the master plan is So some kind of update on the website or somewhere would be great On the heels of them much-deserved acknowledgement of Christine golden.
I want to speak about the Arts Commission briefly and I'd like the council to consider increasing the budget of the Arts Commission. I know we've been in a pandemic, money has been tight but I'm also seeing when I look at the city budget how and where monies are being spent. Currently there's around $25,000 for arts grants for the Arts Commission And given Ojai is marketed and branded as an arts town, and it is, imagine what the Arts Commission could accomplish With their five-year plan that they're creating, if they add the funding to create, collaborate and partner with the immense talent of artists that live in our city. We have a new arts commission. There's lots of new phases, lots of new energy, lots of new ideas and I'd like to really see them being supported.
The last thing I want to mention, and I know I tag all of you council members in every social media post I make. And that's about single-use plastics. I do want to acknowledge that we've had a plastic bag ban for quite a few years now and thank you for that. But I'd also like to take one or two or three steps further, follow the lead of large cities like San Francisco who have been able to accomplish single-use plastics bands across the board. Food containers, straws, plates etc., etc. At this point we all know that microplastics have been found in our blood and our lungs it's in the air You know a lot is talked about that the trash ocean in you know in the in the seas, but we're actually Walking around with it in our bloodstreams So maybe we can do something finally and partner with the Chamber of Commerce, create some kind of green business campaign.
Maybe buy bulk, have the businesses buy bulk so it reduces the cost. And I think everyone would be willing to pay an extra quarter for their goods at the restaurants and stores. Thank you very much.
Thank you, Ray. Next we have Martha Gomstrad? I'm not sure. What's your last name, Martha? Is she here? OK we'll come back to you. Barbara Bowman and then we have a gay guy not sure. And and then Leslie Doris I think it's gay.
Is this general public comment? Yes yes it is. No that was a mistake.
Okay. You want to talk on
three things
which I know.
One
of
them is the saws.
OK consent. OK.
Pardon.
Not yet. I'll call you back. Is there a guy? Or gay? I'm not sure. Last name starts with an M. Nope. Okay, Leslie Daris. Then we have Paula Malice and then Robin Graham.
Hi, I'm Leslie Davis. Um, I think I filled out my card wrong because I wanted to speak on two agenda items So I just signed up for public comment. So should I redo the card or
I can write it down? What item do you want a
two and three
two and three? Okay, great Thank you. Thank you. Okay next we have Paula Malice and then Robin Graham Paula No, okay Robin Graham
Okay, no Paula Robin Robin Graham Good and Jeffrey Starkweather Basically
0:36 – 0:4112 turns
With the proposed development agreement how many net units?
I'm sorry Robin That's item number three. Do you want to speak or do you wanna speak on that too? I have a lot of items to speak upon Okay, this is general public comment. Oh, this is general. Okay.
Well you put
I'll bring it back for two Thank You Robin, okay Jeffrey Starkweather
Good evening, mayor Council fellow citizens. It's nice to see so many people out concerned about affordable housing. Four or five decades. And I know it's a very complicated issue to deal with, and it's been very difficult issue in this state. So what I'm announcing... I'm not talking about that. I'm announcing that I'm the president of the Ojai Democratic Club and we have a speaker, Shane Phillips who wrote the book The Affordable City. He is the manager of the UCLA Lewis Housing Initiative And he runs a podcast, if you really want to get into the weeds about affordable housing called UCLA Housing Voice.
So he has a set of all different types of policies that could be used and so I'm hoping this will be a robust discussion to follow up on this issue because there's a lot of other ways that we can address affordable housing. So I hope people will come out. I forgot to say when it was. It is Monday July the 25th from 6 to 9 p.m. at Kent Hall which is right around the corner newly refurbished so I hope you all can come thank you
Thank You Jeffrey any public comments on zoom Gail
if there's anyone in the zoom queue who would like to speak on this item please use the raise hand function now and we have two The first one is Dan McLaughlin. I will bring him in. Mr. McLaughlin, if you're there, if you can please unmute yourself, you can go ahead and speak. Mr McLaughlin? If you're there, you can go ahead and speak. I'll go on to the second person, come back to him.
The second person is Chelsea S. Chelsea S., if you're there, you can go ahead and speak. If you're muted please unmute yourself. There, you can go ahead. It looks like you're unmuted. Yes, go ahead. Can you hear me? Yes.
Yeah, so I just wanted to respond to Chair Koulisi's comment about the Planning Commission's concerns and how they have been portrayed. It's unfortunate that Chair Koulisi is still unwilling to do his homework on this issue. There were actually several lounges in West Hollywood that did open before COVID. There was a Lowell Cafe that opened to great fanfare. It was hugely popular, got amazing press but was open for I don't know, two years before COVID shut it down and it's in the process of reopening. There are also been lounges that have been open for quite a while in San Francisco, Palm Springs, Coachella, Desert Valley, Las Vegas, Lompoc I believe has already opened their lounge so again I just wanted to say sorry he still has not done his homework on this issue and I'm glad that the council made their own decisions thank you Thank you, Chelsea.
All
right. We'll move on to consent calendar. We have four public comments on item D. Joel Horowitz, Steve Quillacy, Carla Melson and Barbara Bowman.
I want to pull item E's now is the time?
Should we do public comments first? Yeah. Okay. Joel Horowitz
Thank you for having me. My name is Joel Horowitz. I manage a larger property in town. I wanted to express my genuine concern about the gas, the ban on gas-powered landscaping equipment from a safety and economic standpoint. Just two weeks ago we had a large limb fall into a driveway and to allow access to the homes we had to bring out the big 24 inch chainsaw to cut into smaller pieces So there was access in another property as it was a Saturday. I just want to know how that would work under a permit process.
I can't wait a couple of days if there's a safety issue. I'm also concerned about the viability of clearing hillsides to meet June 1st clearance deadlines with battery powered equipment not only do they run out quickly but they need to be replaced after a few hundred charges and at our property the last about 10 to 12 months and they run about 120 to 150 dollars apiece we have about 12 of them I'm OK with daily usage of battery-operated devices for trimming hedges and blowing, for both pollution and noise, for the typical family home and property parcel.
But major clearing projects seem to be too taxing on a technology that just isn't quite up to par for full time landscaping operation. Just want to know how we can make the permit process simple and accessible from a time perspective but then from an economic standpoint How can we make the permit process not add to the already high cost of doing business? All the tools we use are for the benefit and safety of the properties and the general community, and I hope that we can make some considerations for those special circumstances. Thank you.
0:42 – 1:1039 turns
So Joel, I just want to say thank you for bringing that to our attention. You know it's interesting when you're writing policy, you're thinking more in generalities rather than getting really deep into the specifics but that's what's nice about what we wrote is we can amend it So what I'm hearing is a large land owner. You might, you might choose to we might choose to figure out a permitting process that allows individuals like yourself to come in and maybe get a three month or six months some form of exemption. That's what I'm hearing correct? Yes, correct. Thank you.
Okay next we have Steve Quillacy then Carla Milson and then Barbara Bowman
Thank you, Mayor Council and city staff and fellow citizens. I'm speaking as a public citizen tonight within the last 60 days, the city removed two dead trees in the public right away next to my property using a gas powered chainsaw. I am wondering if the city will now stop using gas powered chainsaws Or are we talking about, we do it for free but you have to pay for the privilege?
Are we again saying, do as I say not as I do. Just food for thought. Thank you.
Mayor, can I respond to that? So just as a quick response. As we had said when we adopted it, the ordinance doesn't take effect for 60 days while we do educational outreach and so the ordinance is not in effect yet. It's going to go into effect on September 5th, so that explains why we're still using the gas-powered equipment. Also want to just address we do have an emergency allowance for Emergency situations like trees falling on streets and so that they will continue to be used for true emergencies But if you're using it, and it's not an emergency you run the risk of getting cited and paying the fine
Thank You James okay Carla Melson
good evening council members and their sticks I Since you have passed the ban for gas powered equipment how do we as a community work together to make this easier on us own businesses as landscapers tree trimmers and maintenance companies. The community depends on us to keep the hillsides clear for fires trees trimmed for safety in fires and in general keep Ojai beautiful. How can we all work together to make the tree company's gardeners landscapers jobs easier and more efficient.
Permits will take time out of everyone's schedule to come down to City Hall and get one. Tree companies might need a gas chainsaw every day on multiple jobs, how will that work? We will also need gas power weed eaters to clear hillsides for fire safety do we need a permit for that as well? Wonder if the city could set the permitting process by phone where we could maybe call in with company name address where work will be done and make payments. So we just need to figure out a way to make this easier for City Hall and all of us that are here to do a good job. Thank you.
Thank you Carla. Next we have Barbara Bowman.
Good evening, Barbara Bowman. I'm just talking on behalf of all these people that need to use this equipment. It seems very impractical the permit process. I mean it would seem more practical if someone is in the business not a homeowner but in the business of getting a permit every year and that permit would cover them for years so every year they'd have to be re-licensed to use that equipment because these...I mean when you have crews and you're cleaning hillsides because I'm always involved in that somehow because of the fire problem, it just has to get really practical. I mean you're asking a lot for them to come in even every three months and do it. I think you should have a yearly permit thing and then you can, you know, then you have them all permitted that's my point okay.
Thank You Barbara any comments on zoom Gail?
If there's anyone in the Zoom meeting queue who would like to speak please use a raised hand function now.
Thank you. All right, is there a motion to approve the consent calendar? Motion
to approve the consent calendar.
I want to ask a question on item E.
Okay so we'll pull E. Everything else second?
Do we want to provide any kind of direction on item D to come up with something other than a permit per single use reg? Just for future consideration in our approval.
Yeah, you know, I'm not saying
we're passing something tonight but direct staff to come back with an additional regulation for that
right? Why don't we do that because I think there's some legitimacy to what the people have spoke to tonight regarding the permitting.
I'll make that motion and we approve it subject to that directing staff to come up with a regulation along those lines.
** Okay. Second? ** I'll second. We have a motion to approve. We have a second to approve the consent calendar. All in favor? Aye. Okay, Susie you want to talk about?
Okay so I'm the city liaison to Ventura County Animal Services and I did not have time with all the other things on our agenda to really go over what we're agreeing to. So my question is can I, is there an opportunity at the second reading if I have some issues at the second reading?
Yes that would be one option. I will note so essentially this item was an item we were notified of pretty last minute. The county had to make some changes to their ordinance and then asked all cities in the last couple weeks to also adopt the changes at the same time. Let it be known that wasn't enough time for us to thoroughly review it. And so there's two options, one is they've asked us to adopt this as soon as possible. We've reviewed it as staff and we think that the changes are fairly minor. So we could introduce it tonight and then also have the opportunity at the adoption or we could not introduce it at this time.
I'm fine with introducing it if we have that option. My other question is if I have concerns that we can't address immediately It's for three years. Do we have the option of doing it for less time if we decide?
I think we could and we can.
So the
issues come
up
but I will say this so there is a current five year agreement and they're asking us to basically make revisions to match the code for the last three years. So there already is a three year term and so it's just kind of cleaning it up but not adding any time or anything like that.
Okay, I'll save my other concerns for next time. Thank you and one
note there We can make changes to the second reading but not major changes those who require reintroduction But that still can be done as desired.
Yeah, it will probably be Anticipated it'll be minor.
Yep.
Thank you
Is that a motion?
Yes, motion to do the first reading for the revised animal services agreement.
Second. Okay all in favor?
Aye.
Wonderful. All right let's move on to the public hearing item number two proposed development agreement for multi-family housing and affordable housing totaling 65 units 40 market rate 20 moderate income 5 low income at four separate sites Cottages Among the Flowers, Mallory Way, World University and a lot on South Montgomery Street. James we have a staff report?
Yes, thank you Mayor We have about 20 slides but a lot of them are pictures so bear with us Let me make it a little bigger So I wanted to give some background on the project to start and then we'll get into some of the detail. And so just to give some background on this proposed development agreement, a lot of people have heard about these projects for a long time and we wanted to explain how we have arrived at this point. Just as some background in 2007, the cottages project was originally approved There were several time extensions granted over the years with the most recent Time extension granted by the Planning Commission on April 3rd 2019 The project was appealed to the City Council by the City Council And on April 9th, 2019. The City Council identified that the project did not include any Affordable housing deed restricted affordable housing and did not satisfy the city's affordable housing requirements and so On an alternate path that got to the same location at the same time, the Mallory Way Bungalows project was originally approved in 2012.
It had several state law extensions that extended the permits through June 2017 and prior to its expiration in May of 2017, the applicant applied for a three-year time extension For some reason, back at that point the staff did not process that time extension. And so on April 2019th the City Council had to hear essentially a retroactive time extension and so that matter was also brought forward on the same day on April 9th 2019 to the City Council And so the City Council looked at these projects which did not have, well the cottages in particular did not have any affordable housing component and identified the need to kind of work out some sort of or negotiate some sort of proposal to add affordable housing. So that the projects would satisfy the city code which requires affordable housing replacement units.
So tonight's presentation looks at the kind of overall agreement that was negotiated to make up for those lost units. The draft development agreement rehabilitates and constructs units at the original sites as well as two additional sites, being the site on South Montgomery and the World University site. And so in total, those four sites will provide 65 units which is an increase from the current 34 units across the four sites. And 25 of those units will be deed-restricted affordable and I know off the top I think the thing we all hear is that what does affordable mean?
You know, $2,000, $2200 a month affordable. And I think we all understand that and feel that way. So when we're using the term affordable, we are using the state definition. The state defines affordable based on the median income per county. The median income in Ventura County at this point is $80,800 for one person or $115,400 for a four-person household. This project provides housing for two categories, moderate and low-income renters.
The thought process for why the focus on moderate and low income renters is focusing on helping the people that are living and working in the valley not have to drive in and out of the valley each day, and providing some workforce housing. Current rents at cottages in Mallory, we've continued to hear that the rents currently are lower than the rental limits placed by the state.
And that may be true. We did want a note in talking with the developers it is clear that the rents right now have been kept low because they're working on this project and they would not expect those rates to stay low permanently which Raises one of the issues with not having deed restrictions, which we currently do not is that the rates can change at any time. So one of the ideas is getting the 25 deed restricted units that cannot exceed the state maximum rentals rental cost.
And so we have a chart here. People have probably seen all the charts there overly complicated. So we took a couple categories to try to explain it very simply to be considered low income in Ventura County if you are one person household. You can make up to $70,000 and a lot of people say well I make less than that. Well you would still be in the low income category potentially in a very low category but the low income categories is up to 70 thousand dollars so these units would be for people making up to that amount.
A two-person household is $80,300. A four-person household the limit is $100,350 and the rent for each of those categories because the calculation's based on that dollar amount a one person low income property would rent for $1,616 A low-income two person property would rent for $1,846 and a four person would be $2,308. The moderate income category for one person you can make $96,950. Two persons $110,800 and a four person household $138,500.
And the rent is shown there as well, going from $2,424 for one person to $2769 and then to $3,116. And I know we do hear a lot of people say that is not affordable rent but I will note in Ojai compared to what Ojai prices are right now those unfortunately are much lower than typical market rate rental costs at this point. And so this project includes four properties, as I mentioned.
First, Cottages Among the Flowers at 312 West Aliso. Second, the World University site which is currently a commercial office space but is being proposed to be converted interior only. The exterior would look the same but the interior would be residential. Third, a vacant parcel on 304 South Montgomery Street. And fourth, the Mallory Way cottages at 412 Mallory Way.
So this map shows those four sites in the light blue with the Mallory Inn cottages towards the top of the screen, World University right in the center and the South Montgomery site in the bottom right hand corner. So I'm going to try to go through these quickly, so I'm sure there'll be questions that will get into these more. But we wanted to call out kind of what the current status of each site is and then what the potential for each side is. So the cottages among the flowers currently are eight cottages.
I would say they are in various stages of disrepair. There's no deed-restricted units, two are currently vacant. And the tract maps and CC&Rs were recorded in 2010 on these properties meaning they are potentially separate parcels that could be developed separately. What is proposed through this development agreement is taking those and renovating. There is no plan to demolish at the cottages, it's a renovation. And so we'd be renovating those into 10 single family cottages, 7 renovated, 1 reconstructed and 2 new construction.
They would all be kept as market rate rentals and not split up and sold off, as they potentially could have been otherwise. And they'd be kept at market rate rental for at least 10 years with the biking and hiking trail maintained by the developer and dedicated to the city. And so here's a couple of pictures from yesterday walking through the site and kind of the current condition of a couple of the buildings.
We have the site plans. I won't get into those, but if questions come up later we'll have those so we can walk through those. The second phase is the World University site. It's currently a vacant office space as mentioned a moment ago and the reason it's vacant is because it's PL zoned, public zoned, so it needs to have a zone change to be used as either offices or residential So, for that reason the city was able to pull this into the project and work with the developer to encourage those to be used as residential units. So, the project proposes that it would be converted from empty offices to nine studio slash one bedroom units, one two-bedroom unit, and again its interior renovation only, and three of those ten would be deed restricted affordable units.
And if anybody's unfamiliar with the site, it's the former City Hall. And this is an exterior photo. The third site is the vacant lot on South Montgomery Street. It is currently VMU zone and VMU zone is typically limited to five units for a property at this size but with density bonus that could be increased to nine and with Recent and pending changes to state law it could increase further in the future. And so what's proposed here on as part of this project is building 15 small units about 450 square feet that would be 12 moderate affordability, 3 low affordability with a 55 year deed restriction And these have not been fully designed yet. So if the development agreement was approved, the design would still go back to Planning Commission and would give the opportunity for public hearings and public comment.
And so this parcel is the one indicated in these photos. And finally, phase four is Mallory Way. And so when I say phase four, I should explain this as the applicants proposing developing these one at a time which would then give the ability to move if tenants are impacted and potentially would need to be moved out of a unit that they would move into, be able or offered to move into another unit in a prior phase. So Mallory way is the phase that has the most current tenants and that would be last, which would give the opportunity to move them into some of the other units.
And so currently it is 25 units summon disrepair one vacancy. What's proposed is 30 bungalows, seven renovated, 23 completely new construction. And so that one, there's a note there for historic considerations which I'll touch on in a minute. But seven of those units would be deed restricted, six moderate and one low. And it's right next to the cottages for anybody unfamiliar and this is some of the photos from the site And so in summary, those were the four sites. But those four sites make up 65 new or renovated units an increase from the 34 that existed previously adding both 31 more units to the rental inventory in the city but also as we mentioned the 25 deed restricted affordable units which do not exist there none of those are currently deed restricted affordable and that would last for 55 years It also would, as mentioned, dedicate the easement for a walking and hiking trail through Mallory Cottages to be built and maintained by the owner developer.
And as I mentioned a moment ago it allows for those phases so that we can work to minimize the impact on the current residents. Lastly, it also includes some water recharge ability within the Mallory Way and cottages. It allowed us to negotiate some opportunities to increase the amount of water that would recharge into the basin. And then I have a slide on this in a moment, but we also were able to because the development agreement is a negotiation. We're able to negotiate a relocation agreement and we'll talk about that and what that means here in a second.
I wanted to talk quickly about there's a couple of key issues. We get a lot of questions about the historic review and the sequel review and the relocation impact so we have a slide on each of those. As far as historic review for these properties goes, I'll start by noting Cottages Among the Flowers had a historic report performed when this project began back in 2006.
Kind of thinking back to the long timeline we established earlier. The historic report required two mitigation efforts. One, to document via archival photographs the history of the cottages among the flowers and two was that all historic features shall be repaired rather than replaced and so both of those conditions have been included and are included in the development agreement.
World University has not had historic impacts identified because it wasn't considered a historic resource and no exterior changes are being made to the property. The Montgomery site is a vacant parcel so there's no historic impacts although we would monitor for cultural resources as is standard. And then lastly, the Mallory Way bungalows that had a historic report performed in 2008. It required three mitigation efforts one again documentation via archival photos to the developer work with the Ojai Valley Museum to create an exhibit on the history of the Mallory way bungalows and three It required the preservation of six of the cottages to be rehabilitated to the Secretary of Interior Standards. And all of those conditions are included in the agreement.
Additionally, one other item was added at the Historic Preservation Commission's request which asked that any of the remaining cottages be offered to be given away to anybody interested in preserving one for them to take and use off-site and that condition is also included in the agreement. Getting near the end here, but sequel review just wanted to note. The cottages among the flowers were subject to our had the secret view in 2000 and seven resulted in a mitigated negative declaration identified mitigation measures that are included And in 2022, earlier this year the city contracted with CEQA experts to review that again. And those experts determined that the project was substantially the same and eligible for an exemption and recommended including those mitigation measures which we included.
World University is categorically exempt from CEQAs because it's interior remodel only no exterior changes. Montgomery is categorically exempt from CEQA via the infill exception because the project is, I believe that one's one and a half acres. And projects less than five acres are eligible for that exemption. The Mallory Way bungalows had an environmental impact report performed in 2010. It identified mitigation measures that are included in the agreement. And again like the cottages this year we contracted with a CEQA expert to review it And they confirmed the status much like cottages.
And so lastly, included in the packet and it's the last two pages kind of tucked in after hundreds of pages of reports. So I think it may have been difficult to spot but we have a draft relocation agreement that we negotiated with the developer The relocation agreement is intended to provide relocation assistance to displaced persons by offering three essentially options for assistance. One is a first in line opportunity. For those residents impacted cottages and Mallory to be first in line for the completed units at each of the as each of the phases progresses.
Second is a the offer of a full security deposit refund and six month rent refund or third, a rental gap coverage option whereby the developer will pay the difference between a current rent and the relocated rent for up to one year. And then additionally the developer will cover moving expenses under that agreement up to $2,000. And so again just as I mentioned earlier by phasing the projects where we're gonna do them in a certain order The intent is to work on some units that are vacant be able to move some people into those units and then work on those next units and kind of minimize the impact as the progress project progresses So tonight there's essentially three options, three clear options for the City Council at this meeting.
One would be or the two obvious ones would be one would be approving development agreement second would be denying the development agreement we note here that if the development agreement is approved some elements would still go through the Planning Commission If it were denied, we'd also still have to have public hearings because the underlying project permits would then be at issue.
And so either of those paths would still result in future public hearings and planning commission meetings. Third would be providing direction or feedback for further negotiation of the development agreement. As we mentioned in the report, this development agreement was negotiated by a committee and so this is also the council's opportunity to hear that and give feedback on that. So with that, we're happy to answer any questions.
1:10 – 1:1725 turns
Thank you James. And I'd like to suggest that we use a round robin technique, so one question at a time. Questions?
Thank you Mayor. I don't know who's going to answer this matter, James. But I'm going to start all these with a can. Can any form of government monetary assistance be applied to the 25 deed-restricted properties? To clarify that is monetary assistance would be Section 8 housing or vouchers or anything of that nature that would assist someone to be more able to afford the rents on these properties?
Generally, yes. Subject to the rules for the particular form of assistance at issue. So nothing in the DA blocks tenant side government assistance from being used for these units subject to compliance with the precise rules of the program. OK, thank you.
Other questions?
I want to make a suggestion. Oh, I
have a
lot
more still. Yeah. Do you have a question, Susan?
** What's wrong,
Robin? ** One question at a time. **
One question
at
a
time. ** Yeah, so Randy just asked the question. Do you have a question?
** No, I have a suggestion but my suggestion is that we open up the public hearing as soon as possible. Some of the questions may get answered during the hearing and I do have questions if they don't get answered at the public hearing, I'll ask them at that time.
Real quick question in terms of historic considerations on implementation. Could you give a very, very short summary of how that would work more precisely? Any part in particular, just you mentioned I think on cottages and Mallory historic considerations. What does that mean? Exactly. Does that mean going through HPC? Historic Preservation Commission of BS at a staff level review
now. So these have gone work exactly. These have gone through HPC. I know in the long history of them. So for cottages among the flowers, there is two requirements documentation of conditions via archival photos and to was the historic features be repaired rather than replaced.
That would be that's what you mean by historic considerations going with those already approved stipulations? Yes. Thank you.
Sure. James, can you go back to the one picture of the $70,000 income limits? Yeah. You can go there. I have a set of income limits that might be a little different from yours, and maybe Lucas could help us with them. But I've got income limits from the Department of Housing and Community Development for 2022. And I have extremely low at... I guess it says I've got four levels here, one, two, three, and four. It says extremely low is based on $26,350. That's an individual's annual income? Am I correct for a single person?
Yeah, I think that's a one person household.
One and then two is going to be $30,000. And then very low income comes in at $43,900. And low income which is the one you have up here is the $70,000? Correct. Mayor, if I can follow up. So the $70,000 threshold is just a line determining low income but if you are below that line you are still considered low-income obviously but more importantly how does that affect the rents on any of these properties if you're in those levels?
Yeah. So if you make anything under 70,000 to 50 for example one person household. You may be extremely low or very low but you could still qualify for a low income that's a it's a cap not a not a bottom you know so if you make 40,000 you can apply for low income for the local income housing housing if you make 50 if you But the rent that's calculated based on that, it's also a cap.
If the rent is $1,616 if it's capped at that level and there are people that will pay $1616, that is the rent so just because you make less doesn't necessarily mean it would be reduced from that point. So the rent on a low-income property would be up to $1,616. But it
can't be higher than that?
Right. So when I see rent limits down below this, and maybe I should have had this handout given to all of you just so you could follow it better. When I'm at income limits at extremely low at 26,000, and then I go to rent limits at $659. Are rent limits something that we would negotiate in this packet if we wanted to encompass extremely low and very low income housing units? Is that the gist of what I'm seeing here? The same with the low-income at 70. We're saying that we would like this development to start at the $1,600 threshold and not exceed the 2,300.
And then what I'm looking at it is if someone is at that $26,350 we're saying that threshold needs to come down to $659. Now is that something that we can negotiate with the Becker Group regarding extremely low and very low incomes?
Yes, and it's something we have negotiated throughout the process again. We went through the options so council could say we want to take another look at the income levels you know, and how many of each but that was negotiated. And that's how we arrived at the low and moderate in the number that we arrived at. I'm here. That's something that we could go back to if we choose to to negotiate this further, right? But it you know, and it just the caveat is it's a negotiation. So
1:17 – 1:248 turns
That's fine. You know, they're going to have their three minutes but we have a lot of discovery I do as far as housing costs vouchers and things of that nature and I think that this information is going to benefit everyone that wants to speak tonight so Mayor, now you threw me off my line here. So again I have 12 if not more questions of yours telling me I'm not going to ask these. You need to say that and I'm gonna protest it. Again we're gonna be here all night on this let's not kid ourselves.
Okay can we have a consensus from the council? Twelve more questions?
I'm a little reluctant to delay hearing from the public for that long
Okay. Consensus is to move on to public comment? Move on. Okay, all right. Isn't this great? Look at all that! So lucky to have so much community involvement. All right we will begin. Let's begin with Kelly Hollis then Gay Hendricks then Victoria Johansson. Kelly Hollis? Gay Hendricks.
Katie and I have lived here for more than 20 years. I first heard of Ojai 50 years ago at a Krishnamurti lecture in San Francisco, and the way it was described to me sounded like paradise on earth. And after I moved here, I came to agree. So it's such a special place. The quality of life here is so precious to so many of us that I just wanted to say the things that came up in my mind when I first heard about this development and looked into some of the details. First of all, my first thought almost in every situation here is water and how does this address any of the water problems that Ojai has?
I don't see how that alleviates any The second thing is, to me, traffic. Is getting to be an increasing issue around here and I was trying to figure out how having 500 more pickup trucks driving up and down the 33 every day is going to make the traffic situation any better from the construction that's going to be gone. The third thing has to do with things that have been touched on already, you know, the low income Housing I know people that work for us and work for many of you can't afford to live up here They work here, but they have to drive up every day at considerable cost to Live here. You know, I mean to work here in Ojai and so All in all it seems to me that It really doesn't really doesn't take us down a path of having a better quality of life here in Ojai.
And so from my perspective, I would turn this down. Thank you.
Thank you, Gaye. Next we have Victoria Johansson then Derek Pulteney and then Tom Francis. Victoria? Okay, Derek Pulteney? No. Tom Francis? Sorry
about that.
Good evening, mayor and council members. I appreciate all of you for your service and also appreciate staff James and Matt and everyone else here Lucas Gail I Don't know your name or I'd say your name. It's Rivera Anyway My name is Tom Francis and I'm representing Simply Ojai. It's a local nonprofit organization. At present we are laser focused on keeping those with less from being gentrified out of their homes.
This development agreement is not good for Ojai, and especially not good for Ojai renters All of the projects in the proposed development agreement have objectionable features. If this development agreement is approved tonight, Simply Ojai will file a referendum this week and seek a decision by a majority of Ojai voters to overturn the majority of this council that approved it.
I offer you this information about our intentions as a courtesy to allow you the opportunity to avoid the mistake of voting yes on bundling these four developments into one approval, thereby requiring a referendum that will cost Ojai taxpayers over $30,000. Please avoid this unnecessary expense by listening to your community and not approving the Becker development mistake.
One other point I want to make is that from a Democratic perspective I just don't understand how you guys can sit with yourselves proposing something that denies future voters the opportunity to elect a representative and have that representative opine upon a development that is years out. So for example if you guys approve this now if there's a change in the council on the fall That council will have no discretion over what happens with these projects, even projects that are six years and eight years from now. Rather than a more appropriate approach which would be to leave the approval of these various projects to near the time when they're going to be built so that the council at that time that's elected by the voters at that time can actually make a decision based on the circumstances at that time.
Thank you.
1:24 – 1:306 turns
Thank you, Tom. Next we have Taylor Sportern then Tina Brumond and then Sabrina Venskas. Taylor? Tina? Is Tina Brumond
here?
And after Sabrina we have Fran and Scott Chase
Thank you everybody for taking a moment to hear some additional comments. My concern is like others traffic and water concerns about this project especially traffic. What really concerns me most is that we have city council members and members of the Democratic Club that are going down to the Ojai Valley Mac meetings encouraging the county pushing the county to change the level of the metric that they use to evaluate traffic. So we have council members here going down to the MAC saying, hey let's stop using the LOS system and let's start using this vehicle miles traveled system so that we can allow for more development. This may have been something that the state had already decided but this is not something that the county adopted and I have a big problem with council members pushing in an issue to further this agenda item The real impact is that now on Monday at the Ojai Valley MAC meeting, we have the county telling us that on Creek Road they're considering merge lanes.
Merge lanes on Creek Road. So I'll be at the Mac meeting on Monday, but I have a big problem that we have council members pushing for this change to evaluate traffic when traffic is such an issue and again the big beef here is Traffic has been an issue and no one's addressing it, but we're building we're using water We're going on the traffic with the roads It's not safe. It is not safe And the lavender festival was a clear example that we are cramming way too many people up here Thank you
Thank you, Tina. Next we have Sabrina Venskas and then Fran and then Scott Chase.
Hi I'm Sabrina Venskas and a lot of you, I think most of you know me. I've been in the community for about 15 years. I have a business here at the law firm here. We specialize in environmental law, natural resources, law land use Land use government disclosure and housing rights and the reason I'm not here to advertise My firm, I'm rather. I'm bringing this up because I think it's relevant to the comments that I'm gonna make today When I read the staff report for this proposed project which constitutes four separate developments I was shocked I was actually astounded Because I thought to myself This is not the way that Ojai rolls I'm talking specifically about the CEQA exemptions for this project. What that means is that this council is being advised to exempt these four Developments that constitute the one big project from any environmental review, meaning California Environmental Quality Act review.
That's shocking. That's not the way Ojai is. Ojai is as far as I've lived here and I think the reputation of Ojai is that we're environmentally conscious We're environmentally sustainable. We care about our environment, it's the goose that laid the golden egg and we should by in no way shape or form be exempting this project from CEQA. The community and you the decision makers deserve to know what the environmental impacts are from this project. You deserve to know the individual impacts, you deserve to know the cumulative impacts especially with the water problems, the mature tree removal, the birds All of the types of biological impacts, I've heard people talk about traffic. If you don't do the CEQA review, you're not going to have that information and that's not right and that's not Ojai.
Again we don't roll that way. I don't know who this CEQAs expert is that was hired by the city. I can't imagine it would be the Colentano firm I know Matthew Summers has done great work as far as advising the city, I'd be surprised if it was. Don't know who it is but they're giving you bad advice and as an attorney that litigates CEQA cases all through California and I've advised a lot of nonprofits and community groups And gone before a lot of cities and counties and agencies, challenging lack of CEQA review. I can tell you that this is the kind of project that is clearly not exempt because the city already conceded it's not exempt by conducting environmental review on two of the sub-projects. So to suggest that it's exempt now when nothing has changed on the ground and the law hasn't is just, I think pretty obvious that that would be an abuse of discretion for the city to proceed on this project without doing full CEQA review.
So please again let's follow the way the OHI rolls and let's do it right and give people and yourselves information so you can mitigate any significant impacts. Thank you.
1:30 – 1:387 turns
Next we have Frans or Franz. One name? No? Okay, Scott Chase. Fran or Franz is a one name. Anybody out there? Or Franz. I can't read the handwriting. But we can always come back to you. Scott Chase, then Heidi Whitman and then Polly Carey.
Polly and Scott do not
want to speak, sorry that was my mistake. Scott Chase? Okay, Heidi Whitman? And then Janae Juarez and then Julie Juarez.
Good evening Mayor Styx Ojai City Council members and staff. My name is Heidi Whitman and I have lived on Signal Street for 32 years. I did send an email earlier today that I hope you received. I am opposed to the agreement as it currently is proposed. I do not know how the city's elected leaders can approve a development agreement which justifies a net loss or even a net neutral number of affordable housing units particularly when amendments to the general plan density bonuses water allocations and other developer concessions are required.
A development project of 40 new market rate units in most nearby communities would require a percentage of those new units to be affordable, in addition to the replacement of any units that were affordable that were removed as part of the project. So basically a net increase in affordable units. To not require a net increase in affordable units is frankly just irresponsible.
Additionally, I would recommend that the city require the developer to post some sort of performance bond that could be used by the city for affordable housing in the event that after the three projects or the two projects are completed and so many years have gone by. That the developer asked for a change to the project. That's just too many staff people, too many city council people. We all know how this works in Ojai there's many projects that are examples even some that you're gonna be hearing soon.
So 10 years is just too long to ensure compliance with the conditions that the community and its elected officials are requiring as part of this agreement. And then I will mention so my husband and I raised three kids We're very proud of them. They're graduates of local high schools, they went to college, graduated and now they're back in town trying to make it here. My daughter rents a one bedroom. She's the National Park Service Ranger. She qualifies for low income. She is renting a one-bedroom apartment that many of you would probably not even live in for $2,000 a month and so it's just not practical or responsible that you wouldn't be encouraging affordable units as part of any development that's going on in town.
So, in summary I'd like to see a positive net gain of affordable units from this development agreement and a performance bond to ensure that whatever deal you make is actually what they do so thanks very much.
Thank You Heidi Next we have Janae Juarez, and then Julie Juarez, and then Belinda Beatty. I'm not sure. Janae? Julie Juarez? And I can't read the handwriting. I think it says B. Beatty Nope. Okay, how about Jack Linehan? Andrew Whitman and then Michaela Keppel. Is Jack here? Okay. Andy Whitman?
It's a big crowd out there. Good evening Mayor Sticks, council members and staff. I'll just echo what others have said. I don't think we have enough water or know enough about our water supply to support this proposed development. To say that we're in a drought is an understatement Scientists agree that we're experiencing something much worse, something called a redification.
A redification encompasses not just the amount of rainfall you're receiving but how hot it is and that impacts how much water is available so what might have been provided by 20 inches of rain 10 years ago is no longer if we are lucky enough to get 20 inches of rain going to result in that much of a supply. I'm troubled that the staff report fails to address how the project's gonna impact water available in Ojai.
I think we should all find the absence of the analysis unacceptable. CEQA would usually address these types of issues and it's being pushed aside, and I am very much concerned The water circumstances that we had years ago when these decisions were made about CEQA no longer apply to us. They need to be re-evaluated, so given no assurance that there's a water supply to satisfy this project I think you're impliedly asking each and every one of us to significantly cut our own water usage in this valley?
So that a developer can profit from this project. I know this collection of projects is labeled affordable housing, but when I consider whether my kids will be able to afford to live here for the foreseeable future, I don't see how This project helps that situation. If you read the staff report, it's apparent that we're actually going to lose the number of affordable houses.
I know there's a lot of focus being given on the idea that we have deed restrictions but I think a much more important issue is the functional capacity of a home if we got a lot of cottages in town that are disappearing Very quickly, cottages by their very nature are never going to support a really high level of rent. If we continually remove those types of cottages from our housing stock, which this project does a lot of, it's going to cause us great problems in the future. Thank you.
Thank you Andy. Next we have Michaela Keppel, then Greta Balayam and Joshua Beckman. Is Michaela here? How about Greta? Joshua Beckman. Okay, we'll keep going if you show up you can come talk. Oh okay great Josh.
1:38 – 1:4915 turns
I did not intend to speak, but I will. And that's in to essentially reiterate a lot of what has been said already and that is part of the impact of water and traffic And the availability for people to live here. And that's it and just in my moment, to just reassert my opposition I think what most people are here for and same thing so that's it thank you.
Thank you, Joshua. Next we have Fanny Penny and then Carol Castanon and then Alexander Hernandez. Is Fanny here? Carol Castanon?
Hi. I actually think I checked the wrong box, but that's OK. I've lived in Ojai for over 30 years and I have one son who has recently moved back. Affordable housing is a profound issue As is water, as is traffic. And so I highly encourage the council and the mayor to delay voting on this project and do your due diligence and research all of the current issues that deeply affect the citizens of Ojai. Thank you.
Thank you, Carol. Next we have Alexander Hernandez then Scott Oster and then Severo Lara. Is Alexander here?
Hello. I too also checked the wrong box, but I've lived here my whole life born and raised cross street from Nord off so I feel like if I don't talk right now, I'm going to be silent forever. Um, I just don't like the whole 10 year development plan. We're like they said earlier, you guys might not be in office but yet we're planning for 10 years in advance. We're bundling it all together. Seems like what's the word I'm looking for? Like a short sighted thinking with long term repercussions so overall I don't like it. Like I said, I've lived here for 28 years my whole life and I know it's very hard to live here right now. I'm paying 1200 for a room Like, it's not manageable.
And you know with this whole low income thing you guys want to push on but you guys are bringing down the amount of low income numbers aren't adding up and yeah overall It doesn't make sense to me. I would like to see more development. I don't see why we have to go all four at once. I don't see why we can't go one at a time, one at a time, one at time. If it's the same development company, makes sense for them. Big bank, you know, take it from little bank. But at the end of the day, I don' see why we can't just go one at a time. I grew up in Mallory and it really sucks to say go if that's secured. That's all I have to say, thank you.
Thank you, Alexander. Next we have Scott Oster and then Savera Lara and then Gene Manninen. Is Scott here? Oh.
What's the last
name? Scott Oster?
Nope. Maybe that's...
No. Saverra Lara?
Maybe that is the only Scott.
Mayor Stix, fellow council members, Mr. Vega, Mr. Summers, Chief, good evening. This issue obviously is an extremely issue that's been going on since I've been here. I've been born and raised here in the city of Ojai, just like the young man that was here grew up in Mallory, I grew up on the other side of the street. I had family members that grew up in Mallory.
My issue here, I'll talk about soon but just to make a general statement Affordable housing here is disappearing and I know that this project is absolutely not the solution to a bigger problem that we have in this community. And I look at my friends, they can't afford to live here in the city of Ojai. I know that there are state regulations that you guys need to follow. I know that there's criteria, there are ways to go about it, there's options out there.
I've worked with you on some of those options in 2015, tried to push some of those options 2016, so I know some of you know what I'm talking about but today in particular with this project, I just want to read from the housing element one piece of legislation that is still on standby from the housing element. And it says retention of affordable units. The preservation of existing affordable housing is a high priority for this city, particularly rental units that encompass the majority of substandard housing. And then it goes on and it states where you could find it My concern is for people that live on Mallory and Aliso.
I think it's Exhibit H on Attachment A, I think that needs to be reviewed. If this project was to go on we really need to evaluate What's a realistic and practical way to relocate people that are living there? Because there is no housing here in the city of Ojai. So it's an ongoing issue that keeps going. We don't want to build, but we don't want to lose affordable housing. But affordable housing is falling apart. So I know you guys are not in good position, Implore that you guys really look at how to relocate our citizens because those are hard. We gotta look after people that can't afford to live here, the artists, the senior citizens, all the people that are single families, teachers, service people that work at the... It goes on and on and on.
So I know it's not an easy project and I really know that you're in a tough position But I do want to urge you to think about those people that live in those areas. Thank you.
Thank you, Severo. Next we have Jean Menonen, then Vaughn Montgomery and then Shai Ardabilji. Is Jean here? Oh hi, Jean.
Yes, right here. Good evening everyone. My main concern And some questions are, where is this water going to come from? Have there been studies done for water usage and allocation? I think they would need to be seen. This proposal shows an unequal allocation of affordable units which it seems like gives the developer an opportunity to make more money. Is this what Ojai needs?
Traffic and parking on South Montgomery Street is already heavily impacted on weekends, holidays, work hours in the morning, late afternoon. And especially recently with more cars using Creek Road because of Google Maps it's already dangerous pulling out of the existing driveways on this street because it's so heavily used With two cars likely per unit and only one parking space.
Where will the second car of a tenant park? And where will the visitors park? And this area is zoned for VMU usage, there could also be a need for commercial parking The ad hoc committee has been working with this developer for two years, with very little public notification. The planning commission on June 1st recommended a traffic and density and water study to be done.
Has this been done or will it be done before it goes to a vote? Shouldn't this be done before the council approves the plan This project favors the developer, not the residents of Volheit. Thank you.
Thank you, Jean. Next we have Von Montgomery then Shea Ardabilchi and then Natanya.
1:49 – 1:573 turns
Thanks for hearing our voices tonight. I just want to run through a few notes that I made. These terms of affordable and moderate and low income seem a little bit like a slap on the face to most of us who exist in those areas. Obviously, if you have people that have an income of $10 million are affecting the mean average when you have a lot of people in the service industry making 20, 30, $40,000 an hour So while it might be easy for somebody making 70 grand a year to afford $1,600 for studio tell that to a single mom who's got? $20,000 a year and is is scraping together just to pay rent so we need to reevaluate the lens that we're looking at these these terms in and these situations in It also seems a little disingenuous to To paint this as A project that's supporting low income housing when less than 10% or I think less than 5%, five units are supposedly low income and out of 60 plus.
So obviously the majority of them will be at market rate, and very few people will be able to access the majority of them. Do we want a significant portion of our workforce commuting to town? Many artists who helped to give Ojai substance and a place on the map in the state and in the nation do so as a second job because art is usually not a way to support oneself or family.
I run a community arts space in town where I know personally many, many people who contribute so much to this town. Weddings, funerals, special events help make this town what it is and they're scraping by. Many of them, like myself as well, only can afford to rent here because we rent from family. So if we're going to be sacrificing much of this town in the way of a wildlife corridor, 40 mature oak trees, a space on the public main highway that could be public interactive kind of space and could be privatized where you have often residents complaining about culture and noise and stuff like that instead of the public accessing it.
Why are we doing that when it's not benefiting people who contribute to this town? The owner has failed at repairing these historic buildings. He was notified of need to repair these places. He's got money, he's got a bunch of land holdings so why isn't he repairing these places and now we're trusting him to do this huge build out. He can afford to have empty units, he can afford to build 60 new units but he can't afford to repair his buildings and we're gonna trust him with this huge project Like somebody said, the CEQA, it seems like that was done 15 years ago. And you get an expert who might be development friendly to come in and rubber stamp something.
Affordable housing was already a problem before the Thomas fire has gotten worse since COVID. It's even worse now. You all can tell this is one of the few issues in this town that brings the left and the right together. We do not want this town to change fast. The slower, the better. So please honor the will of your constituents. Obviously the overwhelming feeling in this town is we want things to change slowly so practice caution. We can fix these problems little by little but it's impossible to go backwards.
Thank you, Vaughan. Next we have Shea Ardabilchi then Natanya and then Craig Gardner and after Craig we'll take a five minute break. Is Shea here? Shai. S-H-A-I? No? Okay, Natanya?
Good evening. The historic resources report at the cottages at Mallory Way built in the 1940s is eligible for the National and California Registers of Historic Places due to their significance as part of the history of tourism in Ojai, and the building type as an auto court. Built in the 1929, the cottages among the flowers have had only minor repairs and alterations over 93 years. In historical terms their integrity is intact.
This was as reported in the historic resources report. So the information that these buildings are dilapidated falling apart and no longer eligible for as a historic landmark is not accurate. If the cottages are changed in the way that the proposal is, that the plans are proposing with the two walls of each cottage being taken off and then each being enlarged they will no longer be eligible to be a historic landmark.
The development project would replace 33 existing affordable housing units, and I'm using that term as affordable housing in that they're affordable. Not that they're designated as such. It's replacing them with only six moderate income and only one low-income unit. And I'm talking about just at the cottages among the flowers and Mallory Way alone. The remaining 23 units built would be listed at market rate.
The 15 units planned for South Montgomery would be studio apartments, as the report said, which would be approximately 450 square feet. The cottages are one and two bedroom units. Families that live there would not do well in a studio apartment. We do not need to destroy existing affordable housing to create affordable housing. The development plan includes cutting down a minimum of 35 healthy mature trees, 11 of which are oak trees under protection by the City of Ojai Tree Ordinance.
I'm sorry, I misread that. The City of Ojai Tree Protection Ordinance. At least 28 additional trees, seven of which are mature oak trees would likely suffer irreversible damage to their roots resulting in their removal as well. The removal of oak trees would remove habitat for numerous birds that rely on them for foraging, nesting and roosting habitats in addition to their vital food source.
Nesting birds and raptors protected under the California Fish and Game Code, including hawks, falcons and owls would be impacted. Additionally our starry night skies would become suburban lit streets negatively impacting owls and other nocturnal animals and sensitive species. The current naturalistic walking path through the cottages that many residents enjoy would be dwarfed by a two-story housing tract, and we can see that on the map.
I'm closing now. We need better solutions to maintain both affordable housing and the unique character of Ojai that we all treasure. Please vote no on the development plan. Thank you very much.
1:57 – 2:014 turns
Thank you, Natanya. Craig Gardner?
Good evening. I'm going to take the next three minutes explain why the only equitable reasonable and just thing to do is deny this proposal. It's kind of an unusual structure that we have here with this umbrella proposal expands a 10 year period. Why is that proposed that way? Because each phase fails on its own merits. So let's go to Phase 1. 100% 10 of the 10 above moderate income. That's what he's doing first, where the developers are going first. It's a hundred percent of that.
So phase two, seven out of ten are moderate and two out of ten are affordable and one out of ten is low-income but it's also qualified low-income so only for 55 plus. And also, there's a lot of discussion about okay we're increasing or we're maintaining the level of affordability. Not all doors are created equal. You look at the size of the phase one, look at the size of phase two these are all studios. This is where we start to see some of the affordable housing is with the studios and then phase three it's 450 square feet So if you actually look at the breakdown of the phases, phase four, the one that maybe it will start in six to 10 years when they start developing. That's the only one that has an unqualified low income. One of those seven is a low income.
That's the only one that could potentially be resided in by a family. These other ones are not to say that people above 55 can't have families but statistically speaking and probably pretty safe on as to that now The concern is, okay so the prize is these high, these above moderate income. This is what's getting done first. How do we ensure future performance? I know it's 12 section 12-3 talks about specific performance of the agreement And I believe there are some individuals that be Mister Blatt says an attorney and I believe he could probably speak to when do you actually get specific performance in a contract. It never happens. It may happen on the conveyance of property. This is not the situation so they're I believe one of the other proposals OK at least have a bond that maybe it'd be a solution but I think the best solution Is to address each one of these phases individually.
Phase 1 vote on that phase 2 vote on that when that's completed move on to phase 3 vote on that so that goes to the direct democracy to the representation and kind of in conclusion you. You've heard a lot of comments today. As representatives of the people, I'm sure you swore an oath to represent the people. I haven't heard any pro-comments. You've heard the will of the people.
Go back and look at the actual breakdown of what is considered affordability and especially look at the square footage.
Thank you Craig. Okay we will take a five minute break thank you.
The City of Toronto logo.
2:10 – 2:1628 turns
All right, we're gonna come back now so if you could take your seats and we will begin. Okay, we are back. If you could take your seats please and come to quiet. Thank you very much.
So mayor noting the time and that we're on hold.
Can we have quiet please? Thank you.
Noting the time and that were on the first item I coming back from break, I think it would be appropriate to If we were planning to push any items, pushing them now so that people don't have to sit for three or four more hours. And so the two items that do not have a firm deadline are the last two items, the historic preservation discussion and the League of Cities voting delegates. So I would recommend pushing those at this time if the council's interested.
We concur, yes. Good
with
everybody? Okay.
So what will stay on the agenda is the continued discussion of the development agreement, the extension of the urgency ordinance for formula business regulations, the appeal of the decision not to schedule a building appeals board meeting and the mitigation considerations for special events item.
I want to take a second. First of all, do we have to... Do we have to... Mike? I'm sorry. Thank you. Do we have to do the mitigation tonight? So the only thing we'd have to do tonight is
if we want to adopt the urgency ordinance before our recess, although I will note, I think all the events are... We don't have any events between now and when we return. Okay, so we do have a couple concerts. So the urgency ordinance would be something we'd have to adopt tonight if there was a desire to adopt it.
Do we want to move that? Just do we want to take a pause on this and just move that forward and get it out of the way?
I think we should go ahead and finish this while people are here and waiting.
We may not get to it in time is the problem. I'm willing to make a motion to approve it right now as it reads in the staff report. Does anybody have any questions? I'll second that. All right, can we just have a vote on it and get it over with? Will that work? I mean, we have to check if there's any public comment but other than that...
This is number five, item number five.
Yes.
Yeah, item five
just so everyone knows we're just trying to do some cleanup because we want to make sure we have an ordinance in place for next event that's there after we had all the stuff happen. Yes. OK.
And we have one comment on item five and that is Bill Miley Mr. Miley. Do you want a comment on this item? Number five
mitigation
mitigation considerations for special events.
So well Mr. Miley's going up just so anybody who didn't follow that we are quickly trying to adopt the urgency ordinance to prohibit tour bus parking on residential streets so that we can get that item off the agenda.
And we can make a motion on that. I don't think there's any debate on that. We all agree with
that. I have a comment.
Go ahead,
Bill.
Good evening. For the record my name is Bill Monning. I am really supportive of the effort to begin to monitor the sound around Libby Bowl, especially because you're moving into a technology area where the sound recording can be done over a period of time and not just one moment. And it can be digitally memorized and then put into a computer. I think that's a really big step forward.
And as you know, I'm also interested in the issue of sound throughout the community. And in the future, I and others will be talking about soundscape mapping in a community so that there's an ongoing program to monitor sound. It's being done in the national parks right now because they're finding that they're getting noisier and noisier and people are not enjoying them as much.
And Ojai Avenue is at times Very noisy, especially if you're eating in an outside patio next to the road. Thank you.
Thank you Bill. Any comments on Zoom Gail?
If there's anyone in the zoom queue who would like to speak on agenda item five please use the raise hand function now
2:16 – 2:2114 turns
I would just like to make a comment because while mitigation is short term, in terms of long-term, I'd like to have a poll done about whether people would actually like tour buses in our town. People go to the event and then they get picked up, and there's no revenue for our city. So are we sure that we want to fill up our streets by people who are not going to spend any time or money in our town? And I would really like to get some feedback from the community on that one.
I support the motion to find out how the community feels about tour buses at all. Because we're doing a short-term pause, but we want to have a poll. Because there's a difference in my way of thinking between a tour bus that drops off people for a few hours at an event and a bus that could take the place of 50 cars. So I'm in support of public transportation, but not... But tour buses, I think are a different category than public buses. Thank you.
Thank you. OK, and we can do that if obviously the council approves the motion. I will note the urgency ordinance was done. We had the Lavender Festival. We wanted to bring this back before the summer break before there's a follow up event so this is not intended to be a permanent fix it was just like everybody said temporary Pause. And I do want to just reiterate, it's we're doing as much as we can under these circumstances which is prohibiting tour bus parking on residential streets.
We aren't able to outlaw them on Ojai Avenue the state highway at this point but we can do the poll and then come back with more options.
Great. Bill?
I wonder about adding a friendly amendment for the staff as much as possible under current Policy or legislation to limit the intensity of use. A rental booths and spaces in Libbey Park, I think there's some staff discretion we can exercise their I'd like to put it in a motion that we Limit the number that we're running out was way too many at Lavender Festival. Okay, I just want to add that to my motion. Can
I make a friendly amendment? My friendly amendment is that we see their marketing plan.
Yeah, we could do that. We can review the marketing plan, review their booths and then using the Lavender Festival as the starting point kind of work down from there so that we you know see what the right fit is.
Okay so we have a motion, we have a second?
Second.
Okay and we need a roll call on this correct? Yes. Roll call please Gail.
Roll-call vote Passed 4–0 motion, we have a second? Second. Okay and we need a roll call on this correct? Yes. Roll call · 1 under review
Show transcript
Okay, thank you. All right we will go back to item number two public comments. We have Carol Charbonneau next and then Ray Harding and then Carol Smith. Is Carol Charbonneau here? Thank you.
Maybe ask the people that are next to come in here.
Well, I'm very concerned about all of the environmental issues that have been spoken and I think they're hugely important. But I'm not thinking in terms of real estate and environment except as people part of the environment. And I don't see what right we have to displace people that are already living there in favor of some plan from a corporation. I'm assuming it's a corporation, the Becker Development Group.
That's going to gentrify in the cottages and the Mallory way. Taking less advantaged people out of their homes, so as people are part of the environment I'm in favor of you know they say that the perfect is the enemy or the supposed perfect is the enemy of the good we have something good with both of those projects and Ojai is noted for Having no big box stores in town.
And here we have a big box developer. I don't trust what this means and I don't think I have any reason to trust what it means. We can keep it more local and some modifications can be made as needed. But I'm not in favor of displacing people. We could have a little refugee colony on the outside of town maybe that would be allowed, but anyway, that's all I have to say. Thank you.
Thank you Carol. Next we have Ray Harding and then Carol Smith and then Debra Trigel? Hi Ray.
2:21 – 2:277 turns
I have a request of the speaker if I may. I would like, if you're addressing just to avoid confusion because some of you are speaking on South Montgomery others are speaking on everything and some are speaking just on the cottages and the bungalows. So if it's just on South Montgomery since some people may not be aware of that I would just ask that all the speakers should come identify that which development you're speaking on? South Montgomery. Thank you.
You're welcome. I have three points and I'll try to make this very quick in a one block area there are currently 32 family units adding 15 is 50 percent increase which brings me to my next point Traffic along traffic corridors coming into Ojai are Ojai Avenue. Highly, highly populated cars. Next thing you have is Creek Road. Creek Road dumps into where? South Montgomery I've given you some pictures to look at on a weekend That you can go through and look at what I took this last weekend Then it brings to parking adding 15 units There's going to be 15 parking places as I understand it The average Number of cars per household is 1.9.
And I think that everybody up here probably has two cars, maybe one? Well, I think that 1. 9 is the average in terms of California. So I appreciate you voting no on this and thank you very much for my time.
Thank you, Ray. Next we have Carol Smith, then Deborah Trigel and then Hank Mannequin.
Good evening Mayor and Council. My name is Carol Smith. I served on this body for 12 years. I was the mayor twice. I know a lot of you personally and for many years and I want to welcome Ms. Sticks. A quick really I am appalled applause. I never allowed it Certainly, Mr. Blatt's father never allowed it. It's inappropriate at a meeting of the City Council. What if people boo? Do you allow that also? This is not a theater. It's not entertaining. Please, at the beginning of the meeting say gavel applause or boos are not appreciated and are not allowed. It just unseemly. Next to my point, I actually like this project but I don't like the...I would like to see it include very low and very low. I know so many people in this town who are living on $25,000-$30,000.
I want them to be able to afford a unit in this project. I want them to perhaps get Section 8 or whatever has to be done to have them afford this project. This beggar group is private property, he's entitled to do projects on his private property, this is America! I don't know if some of you were here long enough, but there were cottages next to the arts center, evergreen cottages. Finally, since nothing could be decided on, the owner bulldozed them down and this is exactly what the owners of these cottages can do. They have every right to bulldoze the cottages.
And then what affordable housing is there, is gone. I really would like to see a way to get very low incomes included and a way so that they could afford one of these units. Thank you.
Thank you Carol. Next we have Deborah Trigel then Hank Manninen and then Megan Berquist.
Good evening! This is just not an Ojai issue. We need to be brave and set the tone for other communities. We need to be accountable to truly serve all of Ojai. This plan was conceived 15 years ago and a lot has changed. Our global environmental crisis has exponentially reached critical mass. How will the development impact affect our current and future counties resource debacle?
It will obviously result in increased cost to all rate payers, paralleling drought conditions Fire risk has multiplied and the scant evacuation routes out of the valley are already insufficient. Our current supply chain challenges will likely create financial obstacles for builders, which will of course be absorbed by the project residents. We must consider our fragile floral and fauna balance, which will likely be upset or even eliminated.
Lip service by the developer will be paid for aesthetic draw versus genuine botanical and wildlife to thrive. Again, ask yourselves who will have an improved quality of life? This does not represent a sustainable model for human life ecologically nor attention to our global dwindling resources. You will live with your decisions and the lives and futures affected please be thoughtful. Thank you.
Thank you Debra. Next we have Hank Manninen and then Megan Berkwist and then Tara Jeffrey.
2:27 – 2:368 turns
Yeah, okay. Water has been mentioned a couple times already. That's what I want to talk about. My findings that I looked into water are based on a couple of things. One is the square foot sizes of the existing and proposed dwellings that I took off of the 300 page Development proposal, so it was there in black and white the other criteria is 3,000 gallons of water per month Per person is something that the national water industry like, what do they call it? The American Water Works Association, they use. It's 3,000 gallons of water per person per month and that kind of fits with the Casitas Water District because they have a minimum allowance of 7500 gallons per unit so that kind of fits So what I did, I figured based on that criteria the 216,000 gallons a month of water is used by the current, what we have, the existing units.
Whereas 568,000 gallons a month were for the proposed unit Which included. The existing basically included 5 to 600 square foot units. 450 to 1900 square feet units and They include 33 units with two or three bathrooms. So they use up more water. But anyway, the bottom line is that The proposed development will use four million two hundred and twenty-four thousand gallons per year More than the existing four million two hundred and twenty-four thousand gallons more than what we have now
Thank you, Hank. Next we have Megan Burkvist then Tara Jeffrey and then Cindy Convery.
Thank you Mayor Sticks and council members and staff. When I look at the cottages above the flowers and the Mallory Way cottages, I see strategic neglect. Ongoing strategic neglect increases support for family-displacing gentrification as those in the surrounding community rightfully want the structures and landscaping on the sites to be safe and to look good.
The developer property owner has owned the cottages among the flowers and Mallory way cottages for years, and have done only minimal upkeep. And therefore the historic cottages at both sites are steadily deteriorating. By neglecting their properties, they have created the opportunity to claim that the homes there must be torn down or replaced or fully restored at considerable expense. Therefore justifying a plan that mostly creates homes for the wealthy and the advantaged.
Thank you. So thank you
Megan. Okay next we have Tara Jeffrey then Cindy Convery and then Julia Weissman
Good evening Council and staff. My name is Tara Jeffrey I know this project has been talked about for many years, and I was hopeful that maybe the developer had a change of heart This agreement between the ad hoc committee on the developer is unacceptable to everyone But the developer and needs to go back to the drawing board by voting yes on this it will lock us into development projects that have not happened yet This will take away future voters and city leaders' ability to weigh in on issues not only on this idea, but others. It is unethical and absurd, but when I learned about it, I could not believe something like this would even be up for consideration.
Ojai is not in need of more market value rentals. More of them, and this... This deal with the developer will serve to further destabilize the rental market and create badwill. I don't know how much power the city has instructing this developer to keep the rentals affordable by the standards that exist currently, what I know is investors and demonstrators or developers are in it to make money and it's not personal unfortunately.
And this is a sad demonstration of greed that has become all too familiar in Ojai these days. This deal will further serve the wealthy and contribute to the imbalanced demographic that is rapidly becoming the dominant one in Ojai, that of a playground. You play on a playground you can't live on a playground By moving forward on this, you're setting a precedent here.
Please be very careful putting this deal into motion as it will have ripple effects into future generations and you will be seen as the architects of the demise of our community using death by 1,000 cuts ideology. Thank you.
Thank you Tara. Next we have Cindy Convery then Julia Weissman and then Paul Magoulas.
Hi, Cindy Convery and as you know I'm on the Historic Preservation Commission. So I'm here to talk about Mallory Way and the cottages and historic nature and the integrity to that neighborhood. The 2006 historic report shows that the buildings on Mallory Way and Aliso Street qualify for the National and California Historic Registers and are subject to the California Historic Building Code. They came to Historic Preservation in 2006 to be reviewed.
I asked at our last Historic Preservation meeting that they come back, and I was told sorry they were already reviewed in 2006 you can't have it back which sounded a little strange so I did some digging And I found on this agenda tonight, it says that they were sent to the planning commission in August 17th 2016. The applicant submitted modifications to the plans because these are historic buildings They should have come back to HPC at that time They need to come back to HPC before anything happens the plans have been changed since 2006 and then tonight I have all these other comments that I can't make because I just learned that That magically in 2008, a new historic report appeared.
This 2006 historic report is the San Buenaventura Research Associates which we use all the time they're very reputable. They recommended that Mallory Way and Aliso Street are National Register quality. And that they should be maintained. But magically, this new report in 2008 by a new company says yeah not really we think it should be you know just take some pictures put it in the museum and call it a day. You know it will be Ojai postcard history. So why did a 2008 report appear? Who paid for that? Where did it come from? How was that influenced? It all sounds very development friendly.
And I would really request that this be given to HPC to look into. Personally, by the code it needs to come back to HPC because it did go to Planning Commission in 2016 without coming to us. So whatever Planning Commission decided then is voided because it wasn't due process. It wasn't following our code. The strategic neglect that was just mentioned is definitely a plan, I think, Point out that these cottages can't be restored. These guys are letting them, you know They haven't lifted up a paintbrush in the 16 years that I've seen them on the cottages So they're just letting him fall apart there is an option for the city of Ojai to create a Code enforcement for buildings that are historic that they do need to be maintained so they don't fall into disrepair But it has to come back to HPC before anything happens.
That's the bottom line and
Thank you, Cindy. Next we have Julia Weissman, then Paul Magoulas and then Sharmila Mali.
2:36 – 2:424 turns
That's a tough one to follow that was really cool and also I'm coughing so excuse me. I am here... I don't live in Ojai, I live in Miners Oaks. I am here on behalf of tenants of the cottages who are Too afraid to come tonight to speak because they're afraid of being evicted. So the relocation plan that you have come up with is basically meaningless for them and doesn't do them any good because you failed to negotiate those lower income tiers housing, excuse me.
And I'm really glad tonight to hear that you acknowledge that this project is not apples to apples as you sold it to planning commission. But in fact, the rents that will be in these new units are much higher Than what the low-income Seniors are currently paying it's definitely as a previous speaker said a net negative of affordable housing and I think that you can do better Also, the photos in the presentation earlier taken yesterday are of the two vacant units at the cottages that have been left to deteriorate. So those are not exemplary of all of the units at the building, like I said, I have friends that live in both of the projects or the current sites rather and they're cute little apartments.
I hope that you get to experience them sometime, thank you.
Thank You Jules Paul Magoulas and then Sharmila Mali and then Grace Malloy Is Paul here? Nope. Sharmila? I have to get on the Zoom and she said she can't get on it. We'll take the Zoom calls after we do everyone here, yeah. Okay how about Grace? Hi Grace!
My name is Grace Malloy. I've lived here over 20 years, and I serve on the Municipal Advisory Council. Those of you who don't live in the city of Ojai, we are your first layer of representation with your local government. We're an advisory body so if you haven't come to a MAC meeting before please do. We meet on Monday at 7 p.m. at the Oakview...I forget what it's called.
Thank you. Firstly, I want to thank the council and specifically the ad hoc committee who put in so many hours on this. A lot of people who haven't tried to do something like this before don't understand it's a thankless job and staying positive and kind and open minded in all of this is really difficult. So thank you. And I want to ask each one of you to vote no on this.
Our valley is in an absolute affordable housing crisis Should we declare a state of emergency? It really feels that way. And this is not a good enough solution. This is a watershed moment for our valley, four properties and this many proposed units is too much for one vote. Ten years is too long to lock in this development agreement. Your community is very clearly saying no tonight. 130 people showed up this evening.
And more on Zoom. Let's see, some reasons I feel this way if preserving low income housing is the goal why not just leave folks in their homes make repairs and allow them to live there and look into ways to stabilize their rent? There are other ways we can support them besides this development. It seems to me that the agreement as written is not serving section 10-2904 of the city code correctly, the rents currently paid. I know you went over this.
Are in 2022 by the tenants and their annual incomes, I think are misreported from the conversations. I've had with many residents of the cottages and Mallory way there mostly at the lowest levels. The 2022 state income levels are significantly higher than the 2019 ones I see initially referenced here. And if 10.2.9 of the municipal code is to be adhered to, I think we ought to have more like 30 units at the extremely low income level.
And then three at the medium rate, if that we could also novel idea expand the amount of affordable housing involved. I think the Becker group can do better. They own so much property in town and manage even more. Could these two properties just be your love letter to our community and you could just break even this one time? Let's see. There is a part, attachment A section 3 part B reads the project in the best interest of the city as it would provide income qualifying units which could be used to serve workforce housing and farm worker housing you need to take that out there is not one farm worker anywhere in this county that could afford to live even at extremely low levels Wrapping up, please vote no on this and if you absolutely must have a continuance Please require that the 33 low-income and mostly all extreme Extremely low units be deed restricted as a requirement of this project and to conclude everybody remember This is an election year.
If you live within city limits and don't like how your representative votes tonight vote them out And canvass for them and talk to your friends about what happened tonight. They're here to serve you, thank you. Thank
you Grace. Next we have Anita then Steve Quillacy and then Jody Kaler.
2:43 – 2:518 turns
Hello, thank you long evening. The cottages among the flowers are little gems of historic cottages nestled in the heart of our city. They are uniquely Ojai, emblematic of artists, seekers, healers, creatives and luminaries that are the very essence of our valley. Built by John Burnham in 1929 they fulfilled his vision of providing affordable rental housing for teachers, artists and families. To this day they still fulfill Burnham's original vision and intention. Currently the cottages and bungalows provide rental homes for community members of low income, below low income and extremely low income.
This is 33 total homes for these groups. The City of Ojai 2021-2029 housing element states that retention of affordable housing and the preservation of existing affordable housing is a high priority for the city. The document identifies progress and achieved objectives from the time period 2014 to 2021. The document states that retention of affordable housing and preservation of existing affordable housing is a high priority for the city. Progress in achieved objectives was assessed for the time period. So as of 2021 and mind you were in 2022 now moderate income, there were 70 needs that was met. We're flush 2021 we're flush moderate housing low income 59 zero met 2021 below low income or very low income 43 zero met.
Extremely low income as of 2021, 44 was the need. Zero met. This has not changed today. Total needs for the three lowest tiers is still 146 today. The proposed development project will trade the 33 current homes of these low-income and I'm talking about cottages and bungalows To trading, oh so wait let me go back. Serving low income and those in the two lower tiers, so you're trading for this project as a whole five low-income and 20 moderate for 33. So there would be a net loss with this proposal of 28 homes for community members long standing community members on the lower spectrum of income And the moderate will go up to 90, 20 over the needs.
The amount for the lower income increases to 166. This proposal will not help affordable housing. We have a housing crisis in Ojai. It will only make it worse. So I would also like to point out that there are factual errors in the proposal agreement between the city and the developer. The notice of exemption to the Sacramento Office of Planning and Research for CEQA historical resources acknowledges the historic nature of the cottages among the flowers. It states, the project applicant intends to keep the exterior of the eight dwelling units to be renovated unchanged for the most part. Within the with the exception of some paint and any necessary minor repairs. This error is stated two times in the document obviously this is indirect conflict with the floor plans in the same document.
that seek to demolish two walls of eight cottages and increase the size of each one of the cottages. This is an unacceptable error in this document, and it is also unacceptable that the city will go to a point City Council members will make the error of flushing up moderate income lowering down the three lower tiers that we so desperately need in this value I don't see how you can vote for this project City Commission City
Council, thank you Anita. I think
you can do better It's on your watch
Thank You Yeah next we have Steve Quillacy then Jody Kaler and then Gail Monica
Thank You mayor council members and city staff I'm speaking to you as a private citizen tonight, not as a planning commission member because I live too close to part of this project. So I recused myself from discussion, deliberation and voting on this project when it was before the Planning Commission back in June. Excuse me. We had discussion earlier of the long-term nature of this agreement And I note that the project was originally negotiated with this developer by an earlier city council.
And that deal was taken for granted by this City Council ad hoc committee just as it was. And my primary objection to it is the lack of off-street parking. I would call your attention to the El Roblar project, the El Roblar Hotel which the Planning Commission did approve and recommend to you and which you as a council approved very recently. Those folks No on-street parking in their proposal not only Did they have shared parking arrangements with others?
But they went out and bought and will develop private parking off street That's in addition to restoring on Street parking because of the raid that they're rearranging their site but why should this developer be allowed, and I'm talking primarily about the bungalows not the cottages although that's also a problem. Why should this developer be allowed to have insufficient off-street, that is on site parking?
Because it's going to push the second cars in every household or that .9 that was quoted earlier out onto public parking on public streets. Why would you do that? Second, let's talk about this development agreement allows for negotiation of a relocation agreement. What incentive does this developer have to continue negotiations after you approve the agreement? Please tell me what that is. Thank you.
Thank you, Steve. Next we have Jody Kaler then Gail Modica and Barbara Bowman. Good evening.
Regarding this ill-advised endeavor we know this much. You are seeking to conceive this project and then walk away leaving members of a future city council to carry it to term without their consent putting a mother earth in danger A danger that would spill over onto her Ojai family, its future leaders and this parched land. Would those who conceive and leave sponsor the needs of these units for generations to come?
I'm talking water resources and congestion that strangles. Don't price us out of our town don't drag us into this tangle. End this project tonight before it gets conceived and can't be terminated, before it becomes an unruly teenager and a bloated adult. Don't force yourselves on those of us who must lie down and take it just because it would feel good to you to do it in this moment to proceed.
Don't do the deed.
Thank you. Thank you, Jodi. Next we have Gail Modica then Barbara Bowman and then Gail Arnold?
2:51 – 2:596 turns
Hi, can you hear me? I'm Guillermo taking a live on 309 South Montgomery. So I'm talking mostly about South Montgomery. We the people of Ojai deserve plans that truly serve Ojai. Unfortunately, the current plan causes more problems than it solves. It expands our residential footprint causing excess traffic parking water use causing residents to be displaced and causing an obstruction a beautiful natural area.
The 15 low income units on South Montgomery Street were clearly a last minute and ill-considered solution to balance out the many money making units. This piece of the project is shoehorned into suboptimal, inexpensive property on a highly trafficked and parked up street, South Montgomery. The people of Ojai deserve better. We deserve to have projects that are very carefully planned to serve the people of Ojia in every way possible I respectfully request that you do the best thing for your constituents and vote no on this plan. Thank you.
Thank you, Gail. Next we have Barbara Bowman then I think it's Gail Arnold and then Anita Hendricks.
I feel like I'm walking into a lion's den here. You haven't heard one positive thing on this project. So, I am not familiar with the developer. I mean, I know they own property in Ojai. However what I am familiar with is the desperate need we have for housing. Just housing period. We can sit here and categorize it all night as to what's low, very low, lower than low, moderate.
I'm not even going to go into that. I just know we desperately need housing. We have kicked the can down the road over and over and over. We have canceled project after project after project. There's always a reason and we are going to be able to come up with reasons for the next 10 years It's only gonna get worse and worse rather than people actually sitting around and saying everything that's wrong with it figure out what we can do to mitigate those things like maybe the 1.9 car situation and from what I understand, I used to go to the college among the flowers when I was in high school because my girlfriend's Mother lived there, and it was kind of falling apart then. So I don't know what it looks like now unless somebody's put a lot of money into it.
And anybody who has built recently if you just remodel the room do you know how much money it takes to do that? Building costs are huge they're skyrocketing. I don' even know what these guys paid for the property but we also tell them okay you pay for the property you've got the mortgage and we think you should just go in there redo all those cottages and keep all that Super low. I think that what if this is what we really want as a community Then the city has to figure out how to raise the money to go buy property to build houses that are super low Income, it's the only way it'll work because anybody that is in that field You can't expect them to build something and then work at a loss. I don't know on this project I'm sure there's things that can be done to make it better but I want housing in here and let's talk about the traffic and The reason you have so much traffic is everybody has to leave town to go to work.
Or, pardon me, to live in Ventura or Miner's Oaks or, you know, Casita Springs or wherever they're living and then drive back in. There's your traffic issue. Water? We never talk about what takes the most water in the valley. It's certainly not going to be Cottage Among the Flowers and Mallory Bungalows. We all know what takes the majority of the water in this valley. We may have to change what we're planting, so it doesn't take that much water. But it's like everybody stays off of that and they just talk about houses. This is a very... What are we talking about? 65 units in total? I mean, it's minimal to what we need. We need housing. We need some housing. And the people who want to keep nixing it will continue to nix it. We're never going to get anything built.
And that's sad. I mean, I just see it never happening. Thank you.
Thank you, Barbara. Next we have, I think it's Gail Arnold? Anita Hendricks after that and Steven Rockwood.
Well, we are desperately in need of very low and low income housing For years, we have had housing element reports and we projected. They say all you have to do is show locations where we can have the housing but you don't actually have to build it and we haven't been doing that. We have been building medium- and high-income housing in this town or in this area The low and the very low, as this eloquent lady stated, needs have not been met.
I think it would be nice if all of them—I may be overstating it, people may think I'm crazy—but all of them were very low-income housing. We have been ignoring this issue for decades and decades. I had been here 40 years. I almost did not get a house. I was on Section 8 because no one would rent to a person with Section 8. Person I know was renting below market value. I won't go into that.
We need to have the CEQA included. We need to have this, these projects divided into four separate or maybe three separate sections. We need to prioritize the low-income housing if this ever isn't approved and I am, I would like this to not be approved. I would like to see this thing, Mr. Becker, to make this a legacy to Ojai, to get a tax write off, to work with Area Housing Authority, Homes for humanity, whatever that habitat's for humanity. I know you're a man of taste. I've seen your office in Ventura. I know you like old buildings and we need to ask the City Council to submit this to the Historic Preservation Society so that it has historic building status. I don't know the exact words but do you know what I'm talking about? I want you all, I'm requesting right now, that you request that this Mallory Way and Cottages Amongst the Flowers become historic preservation properties or sites I now request that formally, okay?
So you will request that of the historic preservation body in this town. This is an opportunity to go far beyond our own interests And I think this could be a win-win situation if we could get the Harry Housing Authority, Mr. Becker who probably has a significant amount of money that maybe he could use to tax write off and you know hopefully you know this would be a great boon to Ojai and it would be a great boon to you as your legacy to Ojai so and it would be wonderful to preserve these wonderful old buildings in Ojai people come here because we have this wonderful small town charm And we want to preserve that. We don't want to lose that to more and more development.
Please, I beg you, do not approve this and work to make it a low, very low income for the very, very vulnerable people who are in housing crisis and may soon be even more. Thank you very much.
Thank you Anita. Next we have Steven Rockwood then Kevin Landeros and then Jessica Galla. Steven. How about Kevin Landeros? Jessica Galla? Okay, Peggy Lacera and then we have Craig Rigsby and then Andrew Lauren.
3:00 – 3:087 turns
Oh, there it goes. I'm Mayor Sticks, members of the City Council. As a member of the Ojai community since the turn of the last century, I've had many wonderful times with friends and families over the years at the Troy Lodge Cottages and the Cottages Among the Flowers. These charming, quintessentially Ojai residences are home to many valuable members of our community.
An 80-year old woman serving as a helper and companion for a pillar of our community who will remain unnamed by me. 15 years her senior. A young couple raising small children in the haven of this protected natural enclave. All kinds of people of all ages, healers and counselors, artists and musicians, teachers and students. All of these people form a vital, well-functioning community in the heart of Ojai.
If the development of the cottage properties is allowed to proceed this thriving viable community will be destroyed and the Ojaians who live there will be displaced. The California Department of Housing and Community Development clearly states that California requires that all local governments Adequately planned, this is in quotes, adequately planned to meet the housing needs of everyone in their community.
This requirement has been in place since 1969 and the City of Ojai has had 53 years to develop its plan and manifest it. This is the moment to assess how seriously the city government has taken its responsibility to obey this State of California mandate, as well as its responsibility to the residents of Ojai. Here are the most basic needs of this sector of the community.
There are approximately 28 households in the lodge and cottages. With the exemption of one large house in the Troy Lodge complex that's rented by the Wild Tennis Academy to house its tennis coaches, the average rent for a cottage in these connected communities is approximately $1,650. At the time of this writing there are only two apartments in Ojai renting for less than $2,000 a month. A 500 square foot apartment renting for $1750 a month and a 300 square foot studio apartment renting for $1975 a month.
This information suggests that there are no alternative housing options currently available for the members of this 28 household community. Any members of this City Council who votes to allow this development to proceed before having acted to meet the housing needs of the Ohioans living in Troy Lodge and the cottages among the flowers is acting to displace the members of 28 households in our community, and is doing so in direct opposition to the spirit and letter of the Housing Element Mandate of the State of California Department of Housing and community development. I don't know whether these people have a class action suit or not, but we'll find out.
Thank you Peggy. Next we have Craig Rigsby then Andrew Lauren and then Nancy Drake. Craig? Andrew Lauren? Nancy Drake? Okay. Lizbeth Seichell, Bill Miley and Ray Powers. Okay. Is Lizbeth here? No. Okay. Bill you're up.
There's hope.
Good evening. I'm Bill Miley. My family has lived here since 1968, 54 years. And just interestingly, if you were all my age, you would have been able to buy a house in 1968 which we did for $22,000. So between now and then weird things, crazy things and evil things that happen. I've been active in affordable housing for at least 10 years. I have known about the Becker Project for that time, participated in discussions with planning commissions and city council for the last three or four years It's encouraging to have so many people support afforded housing tonight, but of course in a different way.
When I was doing all these things in the last three or four years, hardly anyone came out to talk about it and such. However, in 2015 we had a proposal for a 40-unit apartment by People Self Help Housing right back here on a designated affordable house parcel that the city council adopted. And 100 people came out and they said save our parks and they killed it That's not too good.
So, a couple of definitions. Below market rate rent affordability is different than affordable housing rental defined by the state law requiring 35 to 55 years of affordability. Mallory bungalows are below market rate rentals. with rental prices considered affordable when matched to renters' income. There's no legal requirement that they keep them affordable. If they had been raising the rents over the years, they wouldn't be quote market rate affordable now.
The city had a rule that was adopted in 2016-12 and said anything that was market rate affordable would have to be replaced and that's why they're doing this So I would like to just end by saying something that, um. I would like to take all the energy expressed tonight to stop this project and turn it around and use it to develop affordable projects in the future that get federal, state monies so they can offer apartments at low incomes and very low incomes. Because you can't do that folks unless you get money from the outside. Private developers have to cut down what their profit is in order to offer below cost rentals. And one thing about water State law says affordable housing cannot be denied water unless in a district there's a district-wide emergency that stops water for everybody new, okay?
We manage it here with three basin agencies. And that's what I have to say. I want to take all the energy tonight, including all the clapping and such and put it to build development plans to go to the city council and get 200 more affordable houses in this town from low income extremely low income to low income Right now we have 52% of the people in this town rent, and half of those are debt burdened because they pay more than 30% of their income up to 50% for rent to keep a roof over their house. And that's not right. Thank you.
Thank you
Bill. Where is the clapping?
Next we have Ray Powers then Judy Murphy and then Dr. Deb Murphy. Ray Powers. Judy Murphy? Oh, there she is. Hi.
3:08 – 3:145 turns
Good evening Mayor, Council, staff. I have worked on affordable housing for the Democratic Club for years. Bill and I had a marvelous proposal for the City Council in 2015, or thereabouts, by People's Self-Help Housing. It would've provided all low income housing for 40 units With wraparound services. Instead about a 100 people came out and said no we can't have that They're here tonight and they're still saying no. I agree with what Carol Smith said, both about the applause. I've been sitting outside and all of the clapping and carrying on is not appropriate for a city council meeting and you should stop that.
I hope that people realize That Jeff Becker and his group own this property And we can't tell them that they have to be sugar daddies and come through and provide all this marvelous stuff For our community it would be nice if we had a sugar daddy, but that's not what's real and this Council is faced with having to deal with actual state laws and water regulations and affordability levels.
That I am not hearing that from the audience tonight, that recognition that you have some actual things to deal with as you create a development proposal. Anyway, I tore up my speech and I came up here and ranted. Thank you for listening to me.
Thank you Judy. Next we have Dr. Deb Murphy and then Zina and then Dawn Schuchat.
There is a place in heaven right here in Ojai, nestled in groves of heritage oak trees. They're small beautiful cottages built 100 years ago, distressed hardwood floors, adorable farmhouse kitchens, sweet gardens of cactus and morning glory. And these cottages still have the original ice box refrigerator and built-in racks for iron And fireplace next to the fireplace, a place where you can put the wood.
It's quiet there and the night sky is brilliant with stars because there is no light intrusion. It's comfortable, and our sense of home invites a sense of community. My neighbors, we all are unified by our appreciation for being lucky enough to live in these sweet cottages and such natural beauty. We're friends. We eat together. We have music jams together and watch out for each other, our kids and our pets.
The quiet is pristine. We drift to sleep each night, to the hooting of owls and doves cooing. There's a new diva bird that's been singing throughout the night and I wake to the crows chatting and there is incredible peace. This feeds my soul. This is the Ojai that I know and love. This is why I live here and not in LA. This beauty replenishes me every day. Good evening mayor, council members and fellow citizens.
A special thank you to our Mayor Betsy Sticks and Sousa Francina for coming to my home last Saturday and actually seeing my beautiful home. My name is Dr. Deborah Murphy, and I'm a chiropractor. I've been living and serving the Ojai community for 35 years. I also grew up in Ojai. I attended Matiloha, Nordoff, Village, and went to summer school at Schapp. And I feel so lucky to live at the cottages. It was always my dream to live at the cottages, and for seven years it's been my dream.
It's important people know that my neighbours are affluent of the soul, but not financially. I surmise most make under $30,000 a year. Half of my neighbours, I counted, are disabled or caring for their disabled family members there at the cottages and Mallory Way houses mostly seniors on very limited incomes. We Ohioans do not want gentrification, homogenized houses, concrete, intrusive lighting. Losing historical sites are precious historical sites of obnoxious fencing and removal of our sacred trees. The cottages in Mallory Way are homes. They invite friendship alliances. Ojai needs to preserve this historically important enclave and not let them be split and sold in 10 short years to then be bought out by the highest bidder from people from You know where.
Ocree City Council should never vote to assist developers in gentrifying people out of their homes. I beseech our council to vote no on the development plan and in the words of Joni Mitchell,
don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got till it's gone?
Thank you Deb. Next we have Zena then Don Shook and then Joe McDonald Zena, are you here? Don Shook. Joe McDonald. Maito Kaye. Oh hi Joe!
3:14 – 3:248 turns
Hello my name is Joe McDonald and I live near the cottages in Mallory Way. And I don't want to see these historic buildings at these locations destroyed and replaced but I especially don't want to see my neighbors that live in those little communities put out on the street. There are almost no places for rent in Ojai certainly not enough to handle all of the people living at the cottages and Mallory. So what is going to happen to all those people?
Instead of tearing down the cottages, Mallory makes more sense to restore the units that need restoring which will add some additional affordable housing and it won't cause people living there to be evicted. The cottages in Mallory Way Outpost are an important part of Ojai's history. The architecture and arrangement of buildings blend with the land in a unique and charming way.
It can't be denied that these locations are an integral part of that which makes Ojai Ojai From the wonderful people that live there to the quaint architecture and landscape, these sites should be restored and preserved as historical landmarks. To summarize, when I think of Ojai, I think of the cottages among the flowers. It would be tragic to destroy that beautiful part of our community and displace the people who live there. Please protect these historic sites by whatever means possible. Thank you.
Thank you, Joe. Next we have Maito K., then Kamala Nellen and then Karen Marie Bellavita.
Good evening. I've lived in this community for the last 13 years and what I need to say is that I feel that the cottages amongst the flowers, as well as the Mallory Way cottages are a unique, really unique piece of heritage for our wonderful little town. And I believe that it would be a huge mistake for the city to let this heritage, our heritage, our city's heritage to be forever gone.
Ojai will just never be the same again. Thank you for your time.
Thank you. Mutau? Is that how you pronounce it? Okay, Kamala Nellen and then Karen Marie Bellavita and then Sarah Bereson. Is Kamala here? Karen Marie.
Thank you, everybody. I know it's a long night for everybody and for everybody that shown up and everybody on Zoom. Thank you. As elected officials representing the well-being of your constituents, thank you sincerely for your time and for your service. And for the careful consideration and respect to all of us opposing this development. I am strongly against the development of this unique, quiet, historic, and completely Ojai part of town.
The sheer density of the proposed new buildings and new roads is something Ojai simply cannot sustain, and should not accept. It will forever change the charming quiet character we all love about our sweet special little town. My main concern in addition to all of the things already mentioned, the unhousing of our hardworking citizens. The total destruction of beautiful open fields. The elimination of cherished waterways and sweet paths and the removal of these beautiful protected trees.
My concern specifically that has not been mentioned Is in this absurd proposal. They want to cut open several quiet noiseless dead end streets. This proposal and the plan will create unnecessary big through streets, which would totally disrupt the calm and flow of the many who reside on these streets. And the untold many who use and enjoy these rural pathways in quiet streets as part of their everyday Ojai outings.
The present state of the roads and pathways that surround the current cottages is a refuge which adds an immeasurable quality to life in Ojai. For all of those in favor of this project, please ask yourselves why? Why busier streets? Why less trees? Why brighten these night skies with less visible stars? Why force out long-term residents that actually live in existing affordable housing.
Why a cookie cutter development over preservation and restoration of a unique and historic piece of Ojai? Why? How can this ill-conceived project, utilizing this parcel packaging loophole and the false public relation veneer of providing affordable housing Why could this be passed in good conscience? Please, please vote now on this development. And thank you sincerely for your time.
Thank you Karen Marie. Next we have Sarah Barrison then Isha Nager and then Brian Nager. Is Sarah here? Isha? Brian. OK, how about Catherine Dorowin? Deborah Kirkland? Kylie Germain? Oh
hi! Good evening, everybody. Thank you so much I would just want to congratulate you for offering this public hearing for this project I think that was a major win. So thank you for giving us this opportunity I don't live in the city of Ojai but I live in Miners Oaks I do feel that the exemption of this project from the CEQA analysis is Probably unlawful. There are some exceptions to the exemptions that are cited in the attachments, one of which was for if a project was to create significant impacts to historic features then it would not meet the exemption criteria.
Also From the California Code and notice of an exemption. The activity is covered by the common-sense exemption that CEQA applies have the potential For causing a significant effect on the environment where it can be seen with certainty that there is no possibility That the activity in question may have a significant effect on the environment the activity is not subject to CEQA. But I don't think that any studies have been done on the sustainability of our water to support a project like this, to increase the taps that are going to be using our water. I don�t think anyone knows what our situation is and how much more development our valley can support. Also the traffic.
Anyone knows what a sustainable level of traffic is and how much more traffic this project will create by removing those very low and extremely low housing opportunities for people, the service industry employees that will have to drive into Ojai to serve these new residents is going to cause a significant impact to our already overly taxed roads and streets and other services. So I just feel that CEQA is gonna be really valuable, it's a law Protects both the human and the natural environment from ill-advised projects, and will provide the necessary analysis that we all think we need. I think anyone knows how much development our watershed can support.
So I'm just asking you to take a pause on this Let CEQA take its course, and so everyone can make an informed decision on what the actual impact of this project is going to be. So thank you.
Thank you, Debra. Next we have Kylie Germain, then Julia Vallar, and then Sally England. Is Kylie here? How about Julia? Sally England? How about Sharon Eliskey? Liz Cantamere?
3:24 – 3:3111 turns
Somebody's coming.
Hi, thank you everybody. Yeah my what it comes back down to is what makes Ojai so special when I first moved here 20 years ago it was all the open spaces and all the trees and If you imagine them or anybody developing every lot in town, that makes it just like any other blown out zone. So thank you.
Thank you. Liz, is
that your
name? Yeah. Thank you. Next we have Kim Brown, then Leslie Ferraro and then I think it says Louisa Roebuck. Is Kim here? Leslie? Louisa? Oh hi Leslie!
Good evening, Mayor Council staff chief. So I didn't really have anything planned I thought this was last week so that's my fault and I'm not nearly as eloquent as anybody that has come before me but I think that this whole project is a bad plan there are times that you look at something You don't maybe have a better solution, but you know what you're looking at is bad. And when I look at this it's bad. We don't have enough, Barbara's right we don't have enough housing, but we certainly don't have enough low income housing and this is not the way to get there.
Thank you.
Thank you Leslie. Is Louisa here? I think that says Riley Morgan. Chase Elder. Chris Jessop. Todd Malice. Laura Godsby. Maddie Gadsby.
Good evening. I'm opposed to the development proposal as proposed, the development agreement as proposed and I feel like the speakers before me have already addressed the issues that I had concerns about. I did notice in the background materials that 2010, the city council actually sent this project back. I'm sorry, Mallory Way. The Mallory Way saying that the size, height and proposed structures and the density of the project were not in keeping and was sent back to the drawing board. I think it since then came back again but I am opposed, thank you.
Thank you. Okay, next week. Thank you. Next we have Jane Walter then Whitney noon's and then a shell Jordan Gladstone. Hi. I
was worried you guys lost my card. Hi everyone My name is Jane Walter i'm the co executive director of help of Ojai. I want to express our concern for the proposed development agreement for multifamily housing and affordable housing specifically in regard to older tenants on fixed incomes who will be displaced by this proposal. Our organization works daily with dozens of Ojai Valley residents who are housing insecure while each case is unique The reality is that there are few to no rental vacancies in the valley and even fewer that are considered affordable.
For those lucky enough to hold a housing voucher, most are forced to relocate out of the valley because a few landlords here will accept vouchers. We know that to be true. This development without a greater amount of very low income units than currently proposed will make a bad situation even worse. Tenants of homes where the Becker development is proposed will be expected to find a like-for-like unit, but they will be met with the sad reality that they just do not exist in the valley.
Who will support these tenants in finding new housing? I imagine it will be our organization. It takes our case managers months to help one person go from homeless to house. 100% of the homeless adults over the age of 65 that we have assisted in the last year, have been forced to relocate outside of the Ojai Valley. This development will change the lives of the older inhabitants who may have hoped to live their next chapter of their life at the apartments or cottages, or just in the Ojai Valley.
This development I fear will be their eviction from the Ojai Valley. This development will change the demographics of this community destroying the few remaining affordable housing units that exist and some of our Ojai spirit along with it. We cannot afford to lose one more unit of affordable housing. Thank you.
Thank you, Jane. Next we have Whitney Nunes, then Achelle Jordan Gladstone and then Jeffrey Starkweather. Is Whitney here? Okay, Achelle? Jeffrey Starkweather?
3:31 – 3:468 turns
Wow. Um, I first want to congratulate the passion that people have for affordable housing and something that I have not really seen that much in public, which I think is great. Uh, I think that, um, we've heard about concern about traffic gentrification about water, about the need for housing. I think We need a lot of education in this community, I believe and what the realities of housing and affordable. It's a complicated issue but the reality is we have built five units in the last 12 years, five new units.
We have built zero deed restricted affordable housing in the last decade and a half It's a simple reality of supply and demand. If you stop the supply, the price will go up. So you can't be saying I'm against new development but I want to keep everything affordable. Every single day somebody is being forced out of a unit or dying or whatever And the prices are going up. That's what gentrification is, people with more money are replacing people with less money and that happens unless you build more units.
Now I'm not gonna play Donald Trump and say I could be a better negotiator than Bill Wyrick and Ryan Blatts so I know you know I wasn't there I don't know about that and as somebody who was on the Planning Commission who knows this may come back to us so I'm not gonna opine in details about that But like Bill Miley said, I really think we need to get if people are really passionate about affordable housing let's get everybody starting working together and realistically looking at what we could do.
I honestly believe some of these people who have a lot of ideas maybe we need an Affordable Housing Commission That would be dedicated to looking at all the issues. We did that another community I was at, and we started with realtors over here and developers and there are people that support were part of affordable housing groups, and they're ordinary citizens, but by the time we all work together and actually We're pragmatic and saw what we had this to deal with actually everybody came together. And we were actually able to get a strategy for the county to go forward, but it's clear that that we're not meeting people who have real passion about protecting people and of course the only way you're going to have affordable housing is either deed restricted or you have a housing development that's built by So to end, I kind of think it would be better not to vote tonight and give more time to educate people and talk more about this.
But it's clear to me that everybody has a different idea what's going on here. Thank you.
Thank you Jeffrey. Next we have Liesl Rigsby then Robin Graham and then Scott McKendry. Liesl? How about Robin?
Hi, good evening. Is it true that there is a net negative of affordable housing when all is done and said with this Affordable Housing Development Agreement? It's true. It is. Okay, very good. Then I would ask why it's not in the administrative report and that it wasn't made clear to people that there was a net negative. That's pitiful. For the ad hoc committee members, can you tell me based on the general plan housing element how many units of affordable housing are at risk in the next 10 years?
So that would be Blatt's or Weirich. Do you know how many units we're going to lose in the next 10 years, units at risk? You don't have an answer to that. Obviously, you're just staring at me blankly. Well, I'll tell you. Over the next 10 years we're going to lose 25 units of very low and low income housing Over the next 20 years, we're going to lose an additional 15 units of very low and low housing for a total of loss of 40 units over the next 20 years.
And I'm wondering are we displacing Just the 18 households that are being destroyed at Mallory? Or are we losing another seven households due to the rehab? You don't have an answer. It's sad. I would highly recommend that the council, I don't think that Mr. Wyrick or Mr. Blatz were prepared to negotiate with the developer. I don't think they're qualified. I think there should have been an affordable housing consultant that should have been in those meetings.
that you would even consider looking at this proposed agreement because it is... Oh, I can't use those words.
Thank you Robin. Next we have Scott McKendry then Larry Steingold and then Jessica P.
Thank you all for staying up late. It's a heck of a party. This is Preservation of Historic Architecture Manual put out by the Department of the Interior, guidelines from U.S. government on how to preserve historic architecture and I could say that for any kind of architecture let's start with roofing at page 41. A weathertight roof is basic in the preservation of a structure regardless of its age size or design and I'd like to add importance Anyone that can manage properties from here to Moorpark should be able to manage the roof repair and preservation for the structures of those houses that are called The Cottages Among the Flowers.
Not just for the tenant's safety, but for the sake of preservation of these structures that apparently this person valued because he purchased them. Cola who owned them before didn't do that either. And I think about 15 years ago, this man who recently purchased these properties joined Cola in the attempt to shut these down to create what he wants to get now which is probably 10 times the rent per month for these replaced structures with single unit whatever family homes whatever promises this same I want to call him a property manager, but mismanagement seems to be the case in this situation.
At the same time he's promised a maintained bicycle trail through right now a pretty pristine wildlife habitat and sanctuary that he doesn't even cut the grass in for the tenants' cats sake until the grass was three feet high and that was once this year according to tenants. I'm a little bit upset by that because I love animals and I also know that for 20 years, I've walked through that area. And I consider it an extension of a wildlife corridor that can stretch all the way to Colorado with very few interruptions one being Libby Road which is a thin band of asphalt there was a wild excuse me a wild cat that's an understatement a mountain lion sighting a week ago three weeks ago a bear sighting Three months ago, a beautiful coyote ran through according to one tenant and the other who screamed was running for her cat.
I do believe that that warrants further study as far as environmental impact what will happen and I do know this from my work which is actually in restoration and preservation of structures some historic some not. For 18 years have been on payroll at I'm not going to name it, but a historic masterpiece of craftsman bungalow-era architecture started in 1909 or maybe completed in 1909 that has asbestos roofing, a rat inundation and a mold infestation. Or perhaps I got those backwards. Recently remediated hopefully the mold at $100,000 cost while opening up the walls found dozens of dead rats.
We're not going to destroy a $28 million historic structure But we want to destroy these places that don't cause harm to the neighbors with the wind blowing, the dust, the stuff that makes it hard for me to breathe after 18 years on a ladder helping a gentleman for a cut cost because I'm on his payroll. That's only one of the structures. I know a little bit about historic restoration. I know a lot about simple maintenance.
Considering what I'm worth, I think at this point at 54 years old for Mr. Becker, I'd like to do that and I'd like to offer that. I know he's invested quite a lot but I also imagine that the renters rents for the past at least seven years that he's owned them have already paid off his mortgages. I see the 10-year plan once that's all paid off those people have to get up and get out too so we can sell those homes. This man is leveraging his mortgages, his loans. He's not investing from his own pocket. I've been renting like an idiot Since I graduated college, university, it's about 35 years. Yeah, I'm an idiot. People who do not pay rent do not understand the horror of being a renter, somebody who makes still below what is considered the low income status in this town.
20 years ago, it was sufficient. 10 years ago, it was still sufficient. Now it's impossible to live on what I was making before my health plummeted in the last five years. I've had multiple injuries, my own fault so I haven't worked as much but I'm under a lot of stress. I'm sad to see this wildlife corridor topic not being addressed. I am also sad that people can present something even the city planner City Manager, excuse me Mr. Vega the photographs that I saw were of the worst parts of the abandoned cottages that have been shut down where the back panel has been pulled off where plumbing was now you can see the moisture barrier torn out it's a wonderful photo if you're trying to create A false impression. Have you looked at the other cottages other than the other one where you focused on the one bad piece?
And again, that's due to neglect and I believe the man who owns these properties tore off the boards around the plumbing on the other one. I know my three minutes are up. I think I could speak for an hour still wouldn't get it all out. The animals tens of thousands Migratory species that come through here, there's a lot to be said.
Thank you Scott Next we have Larry Steingold then Jessica P and then Liz Ioseb
Thank you very much. Um, I really don't know much about Mallory and I don't know about the history but Everybody means well here they want to shut down the water the traffic this and that so if you kill the deal And the deal dies what next? The town needs housing that's affordable. Everybody knows it, it's not BS, it's nonsense, okay? It's ridiculous. Either we're gonna do it ourselves or the state's gonna jam it down our throats and if you want them to come over and pick oh they're gonna have a master come in here after courts they're gonna go put 60 units right there and you're going to have a housing complex so you put 10 here 12 here 15 there make them affordable or kill the deal or do something Because I don't know how to fix it, but I know it's broken.
You've got carpenters here making 40, 50, 70, 80 grand they can't afford to live here. You want to drag them out of the city? It'll be another $150 an hour. They all gotta come up here and now with gas at $6 a gallon and going up? No thank you for that. We're in a problem. These people live here. I've got friends, they live in two million dollar houses. They would like to move to a million dollar condo. It's not here.
You've got people in rooms paying $1,000. They're like prison cells. Get them efficiencies. We need more parking. You can't have 11 cars for 11 efficiencies when it should be 2.5 because that efficiency will have two people that'll have two cars and now we'll have another 11 cars next door to the Oaks. All right? So we need to solve a problem. This is idiotic. OK?
Just find some place to park the units. They don't want them there because it's historical fine. Kill it. Put them behind here, put them over at Chaparral on two acres. Drive the price of the land down then you can offer the money to people who live here and have priorities but the system's broken this is idiotic.
Thank You Larry Jessica P and then Liz Ioseb. Jessica? Liz? That's the end of the cards. Is there anyone here whom I haven't called who still wants to speak? Okay, anyone on Zoom, Gail?
3:46 – 3:5512 turns
We have five people and I will ask... Six people. If there's anyone else in the Zoom meeting, Zoom queue who would like to speak please use the raise hand function now. And I'll go ahead and start calling on them. The first person is Andrew Belknap. Ms. Belknap if you're muted please go ahead and unmute yourself and you can go ahead and speak. And I'll come back to her.
The next person is Carolyn Vondriska. Ms. Vondriska, if you're there please go ahead and unmute yourself and you can go ahead and speak. There, go ahead.
Good evening Mayor, Council, and staff. I really appreciate the opportunity to weigh in. Like so many others, I'm really concerned that this proposal results in a significant net loss of genuinely affordable units I'm equally concerned that any small measure of affordability that may be achieved is set to expire in 55 years. For me, this is reason enough to deny this proposal right out of the gate. I don't feel that temporary affordability is what is best for our community.
Please look out- I'm having trouble hearing what she's saying. Is there some way you can ask her to maybe sit? Am I the only one that can't hear? Can you hear me now? I can hear it but I don' There's some kind of a glitch Okay, sorry to interrupt. Maybe I'm the only one. Sorry. Okay.
Well, can you hear me? Should I start over? No, no, you don't have to-
Now we hear you.
Okay, my microphone shows fine. Okay. I'll try to be louder but that's usually not a problem for me. But in any event, I don't feel that temporary affordability is what is best for our community. Please look out for current generations but also those who come next, Ojai's children and grandchildren My overarching concern though is why we are looking to build out Ojai on a theory that the more we build, prices somehow will come down. I don't see how trickle-down theories of housing supply work when you have an endless demand for housing by people of means who come to Ojai and can pay market rate rents and prices. With that much demand, how will affordability trickle down to people of low income? It won't. I feel like if we really want to move the needle on housing, we should shift our focus away from large scale development and look instead at our existing housing and how it is being used.
I agree with prior speakers that the Ojai Valley boasts a lot of vacation rentals and every house or unit that becomes a hotel removes existing housing for residents. That's a problem for which there are solutions Thanks to our city council and board of supervisors, we have made progress on that but we can do more. I also think we should look at how best to preserve our existing affordable housing. A housing nonprofit could grant right and fundraise to acquire existing housing keeping current Ojai residents in place at affordable rates without the increases in population traffic and water usage new and overwhelmingly market rate developments would bring this could be along the lines of something known as preservation housing where a community preserves its existing affordable housing.
According to the National Housing Trust Organization, preserving housing is quote the obvious first step to meet our country's rental supply needs for every new affordable apartment created two are lost including due to conversion to more expensive housing Without preserving existing affordable housing, we fall two steps back for every step we take forward."
The organization goes on to point out how preserving an existing home is significantly less expensive than constructing new housing. It's faster has less negative impacts and is more environmentally sound. I'm almost done. This is just an idea, but I really believe it's time to consider approaches other than market rate build out of Ojai being labeled as affordable housing when actually it's not. Please explore real solutions that actually help our community and vote no on this development proposal. I'd also like to ask what input you received via email, how many submissions were in favor of this development proposal and how many were opposed. I really hope that that input is going to be considered as well. Thank you all for your hard work and everybody's time and attention on this really crucial issue.
Thank You Carolyn. Do we have that number of letters the exact number?
I believe we had 42 public comments, but I'm not sure exactly what each was. But we had 42 public comments for this item.
I can address it. Sure. I believe there is only one that was in favor of the development agreement as is. And in addition to the 42 public comments, we probably had over the last two weeks since the last City Council meeting I would estimate another 50 comments regarding CEQA, historical preservation. And these letters did not just come from the tenants and their friends. They came from all over the valley, including teachers. I mean, I have all the letters here.
They'll be posted. I really hope that everyone does...I would characterize it as unprecedented because usually when we have that many letters they're form letters But almost every single letter, you could see the thought, the passion, the love for Ojai's history was put into these letters. They're an education. They were just beautiful. Very moving, beautiful letters.
So I want to thank people who wrote them while I'm at the floor. Thank you.
We have a few more comments, Gail?
Yes. We have seven more. So the next person is Jean, no last name. I'm going to bring you in if you could please unmute yourself. You can go ahead and speak. There. You can go ahead.
I'm obviously not Gene. I'm Hal Waite, and I represent Summer Oaks Homeowners Association. I've sent in a couple of emails which you may have seen one about a month ago and up again today. We oppose the project creating an exit and an entrance onto Summer Oaks Street or onto Summer Street excuse me to be able to gain access into the Marijuana Gateway Project. There's no reason for that, they already currently have an entrance on Eucalyptus coming from the west and they plan on coming out through Eucalyptus to the east onto Kenyatta and they also in their plan have an exit coming into Summer Oaks are really safety for traffic and pedestrians.
I've shown pictures showing that we have a couple of oak trees which populate the center of our street, which makes it a narrow passageway And we will be limited because of that, and we could be creating head-on traffic. Quite frankly, we pretty much use one lane to go east and west in the same lane. So with all the service trucks and multiply at times the number of cars that everybody would own. The other issue is children play in the cul de sacs There are a lot of apartments in the area and it's one of the quaintest aspects of Ojai. It harkens me back to what life was like in the 50s when I grew up, and we were able to afford children there. And there are no other parks in the area for them to populate.
Most importantly, I need to add that One of the other residents and neighbors here in our little homeowner's complex, Michael Kittrell found the plot map to our property. And back in 1985 when the developer developed this it shows that we owe and have been paying taxes on not only The cul-de-sac, but the area along the roadway where the Becker Group plans to put their entrance into their complex at 412 Mallory Way. And so I would submit to the Council that this issue needs to be looked into further, but we assert that we own the property along the side of the road. And they have no right to cross over what we pay taxes on.
So having said all that, I do want to make a suggestion if I might. I own a few rental properties myself in other states and other locations and I pay annual rental fee for the right to lease my properties I'm subject to mandatory annual inspections, which I have to maintain my properties. And I look right out my back door and I can see the cottages. They're literally on the other side of the fence. They do nothing.
Just let things rot and deteriorate. I think it's shameful. Thank you very much.
3:56 – 4:0922 turns
Next, we have Sharmila Mali. I'm going to bring Sharmila in. If you are muted please on your... There you go. You can go ahead and speak.
Hi, thank you for staying late until the citizens waiting to speak and for the other agendas. I just will make it really quick just to vote no. It doesn't seem like a Doesn't seem like it benefits any of the environment, and most of all doesn't benefit any of the current tenants there. So I would just urge you to vote no. Thank you.
Thank you, Sharmilla.
Next we have Elise DuPoit. I'm going to bring Elise in. Elise if you're muted please unmute yourself and you can go ahead and speak.
Good evening. Can you hear me all right?
Yes,
thank you. I lived at the cottages among the flowers from 2000 to 2019 as someone who loves the history of Ojai and has studied and written about it extensively. I felt fortunate to live there for so many years. The cottages are a special place that have provided simple, but comfortable homes for many people over the past 90 years. These cottages were built among the grand old oaks in a charming architectural style like the evergreen cottages that were once located on South Montgomery. The cottages among the flowers were built to provide housing for residents.
Each cottage was named after a flower. It was a planned rental community. The cottages are basically unchanged from when they were built in 1929, I think they should be renovated so they retain their historic character and the development should include very low income rentals. The Mallory Way Cottages to the North, though originally an auto court for tourists has also provided simple housing for renters for many decades. This too is an historical rental community. Why destroy these cottages only to build tiny homes on vacant land on South Montgomery?
These also should be renovated rather than bulldozing or removing so many of them and preserve the lovely open space That is between the two projects. Both of these historic properties should become city landmarks. They have already been determined to be eligible for listing on the National Register of Historic Places and in the California Register of Historic Resources, the city is mandated by its own general plan and by the state of California to preserve historic resources.
New historic resource reports should be required. Environmental review is required under CEQA. I disagree with the city staff CEQAs exemptions for the cottages in Mallory Way, please don't approve this project tonight and don't allow more of Ojai's remarkable history to be destroyed. Cottages are a big part of Ojais history whether for tourists or for residents, for example The Gawley cottages, the Pierpont cottages. There were cottages at the Foothills Hotel. There are cottages at the Oaks, the Evergreen Cottages and the cottages on North Blanche that are now the Emerald Iguana Inn. And I think the idea of creating a historic district encompassing the two projects should be considered by the developer.
Thank you very much for listening.
Thank
you, Elise.
Next I'm going to call on Sasha, no last name. Sasha if you're there please unmute yourself and you can go ahead and speak. There you go ahead and you can talk now. Can
you hear me?
Yes.
Oh yes thank you very much for your patience and staying so late. I agree with so much of what has been said tonight and I agree that the Mallory Way cottages and the cottages among the flowers must be preserved as historic and affordable, and environmentally friendly housing. These cottages are made of natural cedar and saltio tile floors and have river rock fireplaces in the ones among the flowers they're really charming and need a little maintenance as all old homes do That's it, but we have a California state mandate to provide more affordable housing not to destroy what we have and not to displace all of the low income tenants and make them homeless. They contribute to our community. My acupuncturist used to live there with her son. I've visited there different times in those cottages and I think it would be absolutely travesty to destroy them And in Ojai, 70,000 is not a low income for many people who live in these homes.
And they would have to leave the community which would be a great loss. And also I believe it's incontinentable to destroy 40 mature oak trees. We need them to help fight the air pollution which is high in the valley already and after the fire burning so many trees on the mountains And we need to preserve the homes of the birds and the wildlife in these trees. They should not be allowed to be torn down, it's absolutely appalling that you'd even consider allowing that. So I also believe the four projects should be considered one at a time, not lumped together. World University and Montgomery Street are entirely different from the Mallory Way cottages and cottages among the flowers.
So I implore you to vote no on this tonight. Thank you for listening. Appreciate your patience.
Thank you, Sasha.
Next we have Krisser, K-R-I-S-S E-R. I don't have a last name or... I just have the one name. If you're there Krisser you can go ahead and speak. Please unmute yourself and there you go.
You can go ahead. Yes this is actually Drew Mashburn. Krisser is my wife. Good evening. I, like many others, read Kimberly Rivers' article in the Friday July 1st edition of the Ojai Valley News as well as Bill Miley's guest editorial in the Friday July 8th edition. Under Miley's piece was Craig Walker's and my letters to the editor Those writings address the Becker Group's proposed development plans for the four properties owned by them and included in this plan, historical articles of the project and affordable housing aspects of the project. In Miley's editorial he stated concerns expressed on social media I certainly hope the City Council has been following all of the social media threads to which Milo referred, like Facebook sites regarding the city of Ojai and the Ojai Valley.
If so this council will certainly be aware that this project has created a tsunami in our community regarding really affordable housing as well as the preservation and that of the three historical facilities being the two cottages properties in The World University Those social media threads provided much to which this council should rightly give attention. But I know from speaking with other concerned citizens about this project that they plan on or have written to the council sharing their concerns, suggestions and recommendations. Some of those being quite detailed therefore i don't feel the need to reiterate what they stated to you. I believe that city is obligated to serve those residents already living in Two facilities with cottages.
To temporarily relocate them to develop the facilities, to the point that rents must be increased to make the development financially feasible for the developer is simply wrong. Those rents would have to be increased to market value which would make it impossible for the temporary relocated tenants to move back into their homes. I'm an advocate for preserving local history. These three historical facilities are historical The public is telling you so. I challenge you and the Becker Group, if they are not historical then prove such.
The cottages among the flowers and the Mallory Way Cottage's properties lie somewhat adjacent to one another, and are connected by a trail. Therefore though two separate facilities they constitute a historically significant truly affordable housing community as such. So I'm proposing to nominate them as a single community become after the Taramina Track Ojai Second Historic District. I would suppose this would qualify the Becker Group offers from the city And other agency for Bills Act status, historic easements possibly grants and other incentives in order to restore the facilities to their original designs. I thank you.
Thank you Drew
Next we have Dara Paprock. I'm going to bring Dara in if you're there, please. There you go. You can go ahead and speak. Thank
you all for staying and being so attentive to this. It wasn't gonna be here tonight but I am glad I am. And I am very fortunate to be a resident of the cottage among the flowers. I am not so opposed to modernization, however and also to affordable housing and to more housing. I mean we're in a crisis here and I actually worked for a real estate development corporation many years ago in New York that worked with historical buildings They had a discussion with the. Organization and they worked with the tenants of my biggest concern is not to pass this, uh because the.
The deal for the tenants is only in a draft form, and that's not fair. We haven't had a discussion. We haven't had a chance So that's my statement, but I do want to say there are ways to work with all of the concerns. I've seen it done in New York with the cast iron building, with buildings in Tribeca. I've worked with organizations that have done this. It's possible to create affordable housing, to create beautiful housing, to keep things green and to keep things historic.
Thanks, thank everybody for being here. What a beautiful city I've been trying to leave since I got here but there is nothing better. I have not found anything else out there and I'm very grateful to the Becker Group for giving me this apartment when there was nothing else available. There was nothing out there. There's lines for apartments, for houses and I mean, I would show up and there'd be like six people ahead of me And this is, I've been given a great opportunity to be here and to even witness this beautiful round table. Thank you.
We have one more, it's Andrea Belknap. I'll go ahead and try her again. Ms. Belknap if you're there, if you can unmute... There you go. If you can... Go ahead. I'm here. Thank
you so much Gail. Thank you to the community for coming out and the council for listening. I agree with the comments from Bill Miley, Grace Malloy, and Jane Walter. I'll be brief with my own. I urge the council to vote no tonight. If we are to move forward, we must increase the number of extremely low and low income units in the project. As you know, we have a sitting city council member who publicly struggled with the lack of affordable housing in the community to the point that she was unsure if she could continue representing her community or experiencing a housing emergency And it's not an emergency for those above moderate income level folks who will enjoy the renovated cottages among the flowers, but the low income members of the community who will be displaced.
I also want to encourage the council to consider this project in the context of the ongoing climate emergency. I assume that the buildings would fall under a new electric building code. And frankly, it really excites me to think about dense electric affordable housing in the city of Ojai. Thank you everyone.
Thank you, Andrea. That's it. Okay. All right. That's the end of public comments. Thank you everyone for showing up and sharing your viewpoints much appreciated and let's take a five minute break and then we'll come back for discussion.
4:09 – 4:142 turns
4:15 – 4:214 turns
You guys ready? Okay, if you could take your seats and we'll come back for discussion please.
Okay,
and I just want to say I have a motion to propose and so after the council discussing Discusses. I will make a motion Hickory we're quiet please Go ahead
okay I Think what's not appreciated and people need to hear Is that in April 2019? This council was faced with a planning commission who had approved a renewal of an entitlement, renewal permit of an entitlement. The city attorney and the city manager will correct me if I'm wrong in what I'm saying. And a staff recommendation to renew that entitlement, the planning commission Past that, eviction notices were already being circulated.
If this council had not acted in April 2019 to appeal the decision of the Planning Commission many of what people are saying that they treasure at these two developments would have already been demolished, would have already been gone. So what this council did in April of 2019 was to stop it from being gone That's the truth and people need to understand that.
We acted under the housing element, we acted under the ordinances that are consistent with the housing element for the preservation of affordable housing in that situation of appealing the decision that if we had done nothing would have gone forward at the time. was to say, let's get her into a discussion with the owners of the private property to see what we could accomplish from a baseline of what was going to be zero affordable units based on what that planning commission had approved at the time.
To see what we could get in terms of affordable from zero now whether or not What is before us has been, and by the way something that has been before. This council for years, every member of this council has seen this proposal for literally a long time. And it's been looked at and decided to go ahead with the planning commission and get community response to it.
The goal as I saw it and as I think the council as a whole saw it was what is the best way we can get from zero to an affordable component A number of affordable units from what was the Planning Commission had approved at the time, which was zero. without having to make this a publicly funded project. How to make it, what could be best get accomplished as a private development?
Whether we did succeed in that or not is very debatable. A lot of very important issues have been raised tonight to think about and to get more information about. So I'm not prepared to approve anything tonight because some good questions have been raised that need to be answered But unfortunately, people do not appreciate the fact that this council is what stopped the demolition.
What stopped going to a baseline of zero and tried to get off of zero as much as we could without public funding. And what most people have been talking about, frankly, is wanting goals that can only be accomplished by a public housing project. This is not a public housing project unless a lot of capital is found to make it so. And as far as the suggestions about the way to get to low and very low, and everyone acknowledges that, needs to be done by public financing, cannot be done purely privately.
I would love to see the people in this community come together and capitalize a housing trust to move in that direction. That'd be great! But that's a big task and I would love to see it and I hope maybe down the road we can see it but I did want to state for the record That what this council did was to put the pause in when faced with that Planning Commission approval in 2019, which would have gone forward except for the actions of this council.
4:21 – 4:301 turns
Thank you, Bill. Because that was well said. I won't repeat it but I know you're absolutely right and there's no context that unfortunately a lot of people have to this and we get to speak last so y'all get to talk first then we get to add a little bit of context to actually let you know what was going on because I understand where the public is coming from. I used to live in Mallory Way. It was the entry level housing that got me through law school so I could move on in my career But it was incredibly dilapidated. It doesn't have fire mitigation, the housing isn't appropriate for anybody with disabilities. In the summer it was so hot I would sweat through my pillow with an air conditioner or a fan right next to my face and in the winter it was so cold I would be able to see my breath when I woke up.
It was pretty tough and that was 10 or 12 years ago. So one thing that we were trying to accomplish by this is figuring out a way how to deal with the problem that, while some call it historic. Some call it not habitable. And I wouldn't let my mother live there, I mean it's not that great. I don't know if all the units are exactly the same way but the ones I was in significantly and lived there for a couple of years was in really bad shape and there's not a financially feasible methodology for bringing these up to current codes and keeping them at the current price they are. So Mr. Warwick and I were faced with a pretty difficult decision first of all this project was approved by council none of us were on in fact I think a couple people spoke tonight talking about it they're the ones who voted when they were sitting in these seats.
I wouldn't necessarily vote for this project today but we don't have the luxury of just saying no with no repercussions or ramifications there's other issues including litigation and other So rather than say yes or no at the time where we were presented with this, we said we're going to do the heavy lifting. We're going to go in there and try and negotiate. And the first round of negotiating went something like this.
We don't like what your project is. It's got to have affordable housing. They said we're not changing our plans. We walked out of the room. Then we said we need some affordability. They came back with it was three or five. We got it up to 25. We forced them to go acquire other property in Ojai because the affordability was going to get lost if they had to redo the plans that had spent years and years, if you look through the history going from planning commission to city and back and forth So we respected that even though we didn't love it, but we had to figure out something that would get affordable housing built in Ojai. And what nobody's ever accomplished before is any building affordable housing in Ojai. In 1929 these weren't affordable units they're affordable units now because they were built in 1929.
So we're trying our hardest here to figure out how to do this. I live every day trying to explain to people who aren't always aware or are almost never aware that Ojai has the highest average age in the entire county, the lowest median income, the longest average commute, the highest number of renters. I look at that data and understand how Prop 19 is going to affect our community because Prop 19 says you can't inherit property from a parent to a child Unless they live there, their property taxes go up and they're only exempt for the first million. So we're going to see a ton of rentals in our community disproportionate than any other place not be able to keep its property tax base when one generation passes away the children that inherit that are going to have their property taxes go up significantly those rents are going to go up along with it because you can't afford to lose money on it and we've got to get ahead of the game somehow somewhere in this community And unfortunately, this is maybe the 20th time housing has come up and every time it's met with a lot of pushback from the community.
I've been on the other side pushing back. I get it! We don't like this in Ojai. When this project was built when it was first designed when they wanted to put extra affordability in to add a density bonus that people fought against the affordability element of the original project because we as Ojai The council before us, the citizens that are here we have not taken on the responsibility of dealing with housing in our community. We throw up the water thing, we throw up the traffic thing, we throw up whatever we can. That doesn't mean this is the perfect project and we're all sitting here listening trying to figure out how to either make it better or throw it out if we have to but there's serious ramifications for that.
This project will not result in 55 years of affordable housing on this land anymore I don't even know if we can designate. I've had this conversation with our staff, I talked to people on Facebook the landmark designation won't necessarily force them to have to rehabilitate everything or keep the rent down they have the ability to evict everyone wait not have any affordable requirement reapply for entitlements on their private property Mr. Wyrick and I started this by saying we can't allow the worst case scenario to happen How do we protect this housing the best we can? And it's not simple when you deal with private developers. In fact, almost all the time it requires them building market rate housing in order to subsidize the affordable housing and people don't always understand that.
We can't force someone to donate money to us because we need that kind of housing. Where you can, and I've worked with Bill Miley, Judy Murphy were up here. I was on the Democratic Club back then. I worked hand in hand. I learned so much from all the efforts they put in it was in such the right vein and right place but I didn't love that the location either was behind City Hall but that was the only opportunity because of one key thing. The people that do it for free will only do it if you give them the land for free Well, we don't have them. Our city has a $10 million annual budget. We can't buy the land. We can't ask you for it. It's funny people are talking about this land trust which I think would be a great idea but we can't raise the money ourselves.
We can tax you to buy other people housing and I heard someone say you're going to use our water so we have to use less on that. Heaven forbid you have to use a little bit less water to help the affordable housing thing, but if you're not willing to consider your water usage as a benefit to the affordable housing and housing problem in the city which we're not necessarily asking you to do. But if you're not willing to make that sacrifice how can we go out and ask you to donate millions of dollars to afford to acquire the land to put this type of project on?
That's asking a lot. We don't think it's reasonable to dip into your pockets if you guys want to come up with the money, we'll gladly build an affordable project that meets those requirements that you're putting out there, but it's not feasible economically this way. So we were stuck with this situation. Now, can we squeeze some more units out? Can we do things to improve it? I've had concerns. I wasn't prepared to vote yes tonight either.
Things are changing rapidly. I'm working with a couple different water companies. Water is a passion of mine. I think that we have to find a way to talk about whether this project can be net zero water usage. Net zero water usage is where we're moving with all development. That doesn't mean it can't use any, but we've got to look at what those massive mitigation type of things are because if we're looking down the road 10 years, we have a lot of questions about that. However you gotta remember, we don't decide water. They gotta go to Casitas, they gotta get their water from them. Those are the experts, they know how much water they have. We don't say yes or no just based on that. We can't say no if the water company's saying yes.
So we have to integrate all of these different ideas and problems and solutions there. Also when it comes to traffic and parking, some of these other things the state is passing laws very aggressive about affordable housing. We do not have the autonomous ability to just say no for all the different reasons that were brought up. Some of those things we can't say no about.
So we're in a tough spot there, but this is not the project we built. This is not the project we decided on. We are playing the hand we got dealt and we're doing the best we can. And the first thing we did was keep it from being demolished and rebuilt under a prior council's decision. How are they a net negative? This is a net positive program even if you consider that it might not have as many units as you'd like to see because we're getting them for a long time. They're new and rehabilitated And they're deed-restricted. And I've heard people say, well why the 55 years? That's a limitation going to state. 55 years is how it works. So we're asking for the max for that.
We've looked at all the numbers. If we can go to lower income levels, if we can go back to the negotiation table and try and figure that out, I'm all for it. But when we were there, we could not get any lower because the cost effectiveness when you get those rents down into those super low categories just don't make mathematical sense for the development and the acquisition of brand new land and everything else that it takes. So it's been incredibly difficult.
I don't think this is the best it could be, but gosh darnit we were not sitting here not thinking about our community, our history, our water, our traffic and that we're losing units. We were here thinking about how do we make this situation the best we can? And that's why we're here today.
4:30 – 4:412 turns
So my favorite words tonight were, I think it was Grace Malloy. She said Jeff Becker why don't you make this a love project for Ojai? Because from isn't that what she said something like that the reason I say that is because the key is a change of heart of the developer OK what we have here I realize this is complex. I went back and listened to the Planning Commission meetings way back there you know they're recorded. I think they start 2012 definitely listen to 2019 because I was thinking I still have so much to learn about this project.
You're both a developer. and the landlord. And I have seen over and over again here in Ojai, I've lived here I think it's 67 years now or something like that when you're the developer and the landlord with rare exceptions there is what you could characterize as willful or strategic neglect I actually thought at one of the meetings in 2019 that no one was living there anymore because I kept going by and seeing the dilapidated empty unit.
But on Sunday morning, Mayor Sticks and I went to walk the land and I have almost forgotten how beautiful it is. It's a park-like setting. It is truly a jewel in Ojai. And I was, I felt ashamed that these people truly love their homes. But they have to look at this, the garage hasn't been painted in it looks like 20 years or something there's all this what's the word? I want to start by saying thank you very much for the opportunity to be here today. It's an honor and a privilege to be part of this meeting, and it's an honor and a privilege All of that will impact the wildlife that is currently there.
I hope that we have a chance to look at things like a housing trust if we clearly see that what we have now is It's already low, low income housing and it seems to me that there could be a fair rental increase to cover the cost of maintenance. That's fair. I don't think anybody objects to that. I'm a little bit rambling right now but I do want to zero in on the tenant relocation if I can have a couple more minutes?
What? One thought I had that was expressed, first of all we received a number of letters from former tenants Describing the neglect and just what Ryan described So there's that aspect, but some of the units were Rehabilitated is my understanding and and I saw one on Zillow a couple of weeks ago. I was very excited But then it wasn't in district 4 so because it looks just like the beautiful Ojai housing that I used to see you know Small housing in a nice rural setting but You know, I realize this is probably very painful for you so my apologies because I care deeply about Ojai and I care that it turns out to be fair for everyone involved but my understanding is that That if we don't expand the units, then people are saying it would not pencil out.
But isn't it true that no one is requiring the developer to make any investment that does not pencil out? The developer can choose not to do it. The developer can choose to maintain what's currently there, do fair rental increases Repairs and maintenance. And then there is no loss, no net loss of affordable housing. We maintain the total it's like 32, 38 and 25 whatever it is we maintain that as low income truly affordable housing. We maintain it. People's lives are not disrupted.
In a moment, I want to go to the concerns about tenant relocation because I was very curious about how that you thought you could pull it off when in truth there is absolutely no relocation in Ojai currently unless you want to live way on the outskirts and maybe in one room or like a studio in Oakview. There might be something comparable to the current rent On these 2 properties. So here are the concerns that were expressed I asked the tenants because I had my I wanted to hear directly from them and here is what they said the tenant offsets concerns me because A, if tenants choose option one and there is no housing available for them to move to then they should not lose out on the possibility of the other two options because they have to choose one of the three options ahead of time.
B, if a tenant must move multiple times The group should cover moving costs of multiple moves because more than likely they're going to find something that's temporary. Because there are plenty of places that are furnished and if you're willing to live, put your stuff in storage then you could find something maybe just slightly higher than what the tenants are paying now.
The plans are only as good as the integrity of the Becker Group and the loopholes that the group can find. So, the group is not likely to comply with anything not ironclad in writing. Jeff Becker has already shown he will not comply with regulations by evicting one of the speakers, Elise, Two years ago, a tenant of 19 years with 60 day notice to evict while he believed he had been given the okay to begin the project and the tenants were supposed to get six months on this project. She had to go to the City Council to support her right to stay longer.
And the fourth concern is, the offsets are better than nothing but not adequate considering Ojai is losing a well-functioning historical community and the residents may not be able to secure adequate housing on any of the three options due to how it's written. Especially option one leaves the possibility they don't have a place And there's one more point. The offering to hire a lawyer Individually to get the group to comply with their legal agreement.
And then even more important, it does not address our primary concern which is the historical nature and charm of the original cottages and Mallory Way plants which will be forever changed and destroyed after being a sanctuary and oasis in downtown Ojai for over 100 years. And I'm sure that, I would say that all of the tenants believe that the cottages rather than being forced to move they believe that the cottages at Mallory Way should remain affordable renters and it does not serve the Ojai community to displace lower income residents to make way for high-income residents And in 10 years, to be split up and sold likely to people from out of town who outbid the locals with cash buys.
Councilmembers Blatz and Wyrick to address that 10-year plan. And then the other question I have, I don't know if I can ask it, I don't know if you can address it but I keep going back to World University because looking at this logical, my logic says fix up what you have Maintain it for the people that are there, do the right thing. You'd be doing something so wonderful if you could make that happen somehow. But World University is not controversial. South Montgomery's controversial. The other two very controversial. World University looks beautiful on the outside but it remains gutted inside. I looked every few weeks ago and it's just gutted but it seems like Logic says well, why doesn't he just fix that up get that rolling and you make that available?
As a mixed-use housing complex Am I correct? That's what it's going to be. So What I would like staff To and to address is I Hadn't heard is it true that 40 oak trees are gonna be removed and I You know, what was the other question that I had? Oh about the 10 years. Why was that 10 years written in? Because it just goes by so fast! Even if it is 10 years from the time it's built, not that that would matter that much
I'm not sure exactly what's being referenced. I think you had referenced it in relation to the relocation agreement, which talks about just the idea that the whole project is to be phased in over 10 years?
4:41 – 4:5021 turns
Can you help me out, Bill? So
if I could jump in here. The requirement is in section 3.1.1 of the draft development agreement page 229 of the packet provides that the cottages project those 10 units will be kept as market rate rental units for ten years counting from the final certificate of occupancy so when he's done with the rehab if approved And then supplies the certificate of occupancy and then they can be rented again. Then it's 10 years from there, rental only. No restriction on the amount of rent other than that which may be true by state law by then but rentals only not sales. That's what's proposed. Okay so they're not being
sold in ten years?
They're protected against sale for 10 years. What happens year 11 is up to whatever the developer may choose that, and the answer to your next question is why 10 years? To the best of staff's knowledge, that's the best deal that the ad hoc committee could negotiate at this time.
I think it's worth mentioning, correct me if I'm wrong. We're going to be talking about the track map for this property. Previous council planning Commission Council staff had approved a track map for this property already. Yes, the plan was they were going to develop as individual sale properties and so this was an attempt to say no. Yeah, we have that track map can undo the track back. Unfortunately, it's part of
And we're looking at it thinking, hey let's keep them on the market for rentals. Let's make sure they don't get into ownership and have somebody not there or come in buy them for a bunch re-raise the rents all kinds of you know and also not to put pressure on them potentially being Airbnbs or something like that. So the idea was keep them on the rental market because we need, you know our parameters look at this is we need and we have a huge number of renters. We're real concerned even with all of the rentals available that even at market rate where it's not helpful if they're running out.
And that causes the prices to go up. So
I mean, I'll conclude but it just feels just...I think the whole community would much prefer that we assess each project on its own merit one at a time and do the historic...go back to the historical commission through the full CEQA considerations And then can you tell me if it's true that they're removing 40 oaks, or is that a myth?
I'll ask Lucas to give some information on that. But I do want to just note the whole new CEQA process would probably cost $250,000. So everything we do that adds costs, you have to offset
against the loss of affordable units.
And the reason for that is because that cost is not borne by the city, it will be borne by the developer. Through the city of course. The city hires a consultant, the city prepares the EIR final invoice paid by the developer.
I did not know that. Okay what about the trees?
Thank you. 40 overall yes. But in terms of protected trees, oaks 14 for cottages 10 for Mallory.
I want to be crystal clear on this. You're saying that you're going to remove the 14 oaks that keep the whole setting so nice and cool and beautiful? You're going to remove 14?
I'm not removing them,
yeah. It's not the city! Just to
clarify
it's not the city. I know you're not going, but how is that even permitted? Prior
City Council approved the removal of those 14 oak trees and their deal is proposed subject obviously to discussion would maintain that prior approval in return for the other pieces of the deal. This council could direct a renegotiation of the plan to include preservation of some or all of those oaks. I don't know the site well enough to know off the top of my head how much, move this slightly and you keep this oak, move that slightly and you keep that oak. That could be sorted out if this council so directed. But the key is it was the prior city council that approved in 2006 and in 2012 the removal of those oak trees.
Thank you Matt. Randy?
Thank you for the bad news.
Thank you, Mayor. You know it's interesting we've spent. I've spent. You know since we got our packet like every day reviewing some aspect of this project and I came to the conclusion heading into tonight that this wasn't about the Becker group. This was about our community. And When I say that is, we come here tonight and we're talking about a proposed development agreement for multifamily housing and affordable housing.
But the reality is we came here tonight to hear from the public. There was nothing set in stone, there was nothing that said that this is going through tonight. I'm not here to kick the Becker Group to the side of the road but the reality is we're here tonight to hear our community and I think we heard it pretty loud and pretty clear. One of the things that came to mind as I was preparing is I wrote this statement. We are doomed to fail as a community when we fail to act as one It's real simple, huh?
I mean just digest that for a second. We are doomed to fail as a community if we fail to act as a community. So we heard our community speak tonight and obviously I wrote down at least 25 issues and I highlighted 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 that are meaningful. And I'm sure they're meaningful to everyone up here. So, I'm not gonna speak a lot because I had my stuff written down but it's irrelevant.
The interesting thing here is is how do we get any developer that comes into our community, how do we get them to be a part of our community? How do we ge them to like Susan says you know be in love with us and give to us and help And leave the market base numbers over there, and I don't know if that's feasible. I don't know if any developer wants to do that But I would say this much I know the Becker group. I know that you live here I know your children go to school here. I know you are a member of our community So If we just say no tonight If we just say no We are ending any and all negotiations to achieving some form of affordable housing in this community. You don't negotiate from the word no.
You may negotiate and come to the conclusion that you're at a no, but if you start from no, you're already done. There's no reason to negotiate. I think two things should happen tonight, and we can end this debate real quick. I think one what we can do is send this back to the ad hoc committee. We can take the list and the concerns that the community has brought to our attention, and we can give them one more opportunity to work with the Becker Group to come to a better development agreement.
I don't know what that is but you know what? That's better than saying no. And I'm not for saying no. This council should not be for saying no. We don't run from problems, council should run to the problem and if affordability in this community is that dire we need to be running to it. So that would be my thoughts on that is let's figure out how to run to affordability And let's stop the nonsense, and let's figure out what we can do together. And if we can't, if we reach a no, then I think Mr. Starkweather's idea of forming a committee of affordability and actually bringing the community into it and asking them to help us solve this problem is the next best step.
But we cannot accept no, because no means nothing. Nothing for them, nothing for us.
4:50 – 5:0539 turns
Thank you, and Randy I hear you. I also think though that this agreement and the projects in it are fundamentally flawed And so we have to do a reset and start over and that's what sometimes needs to happen The city of Ojai should not approve more development for the wealthy when we do not know how much drought and climate driven Aridification is going to further diminish our scarce water reserves If we're going to do any new development at all, it should provide homes for those most in need rather than more space for the wealthy.
Our City Council must vote no on the Becker Development Agreement brought to us by Councilmembers Bill Weirich and Ryan Blatz. The days of kicking out our neighbors to develop homes for the wealthy and make millions for real estate speculators are over. Enabling money developers to extract immense profit from our town in this way is perverse, dysfunctional and should never be considered again.
Lastly, the overwhelming community opposition to the proposed development agreement that we have seen this evening and have seen for the last two weeks by all the letters that we've received makes it clear that if we were to approve this development agreement, we would do so squarely against the will of the community. Therefore I make a motion to deny the development agreement proposed by Councilmembers Wyrick and Blatz.
Do I have
a second?
Okay. We don't need a roll call, correct?
No, we do need a roll call. There's a decent chance that gets litigated.
Okay. All right. Roll call please, Gail.
Wait a minute. Do we want to pause and think of any friendly amendments?
I basically agree with Randy. I'm not necessarily saying that the ad hoc committee should take on this anymore, but I think that there needs to be a chance, there needs to be an opportunity for renewed discussion of what the possibilities are. So I would agree with Randy that I think we should keep things open by continuing the item rather than or put it into a state of further negotiation rather than saying no or yes.
A number of issues were raised that need to be addressed at a detail level and also a global level so I think that's the prudent thing to do.
Could Mayor Stix be given the opportunity to explain your motion when you say No, you're saying no to the current development agreement.
Correct that we it is flawed Fundamentally flawed and we need to go back to the drawing board.
Yeah, and are you saying something completely different? Or are you saying the same thing in two different ways? I
I don't think there should be a decision, no or yes on this development agreement. We should be opening it up for further discussion and I think my colleague wanted to say something too.
Ryan?
Well I think after what Mr. Haney said it's pretty clear that your motion was no you didn't want to talk to anybody anymore about it. I don't agree with that. I agree with what Randy said, I think it's an important step. We got a lot of feedback today from the completion bond to there were a couple other just real technical issues too. I'd like to know more about what landmarking would or would not do. I would like to have that conversation with the developer whether we are in a situation where if that is an option that is helpful.
That were we cooperatively working on that together? Is it something that we'd have to do without their consent? I think there's a lot of those things that could be discussed to see. I think we may have to try and see what we can do about, it might be less units and more affordability. I don't know. Not sure how that potentially could work. There's a lot of different things from what we got back because there was a lot of information. I also hope that the public can digest some of the information we've given them. Because I don't believe that everybody was on the same page about how this entire process has worked. Doesn't mean everybody's going to come back with whatever we can do and say yes, doesn't mean we're going to come back with... You have to understand all we can do is present the best thing we can get to taking as much feedback as we can.
It doesn't even mean we support it. We have an obligation whether we like it or not to come back with the best deal that we think we can get and see if the other colleagues want to vote for it. We could both be against it you guys could vote for it. So we you know unless the developer is going to say they're not willing to talk. Why in the world would we do a hard no and not continue this discussion especially after having really great feedback from the community?
I actually don't. I have a different perspective. I don't see it as a hard no. I see it as a yes to preserve The current historical cottages on Aliso and the bungalows on Mallory Way. That's my yes to preserving those, and then I could never ever agree to a project that destroys all those oak trees. It's just not going to
happen. And I just want to say, my yes is to a better deal for our community, for the people in
Mayor, I don't think your yes is wrong for you. I don't disagree with that. If that's how you really feel, I support you in it. I support Sousa and what she's trying to achieve. What I'm saying is let's take those two concepts, a better idea and maybe doing something differently at Mallory. And maybe doing something differently with the trees. And maybe like I said there were a ton of incredibly good ideas and a ton of concerns.
So what we're saying is, what I'm saying is let's continue this discussion because time's on our side We're in control here. This is our community, this is our city, this is ours. It's not theirs, it's ours. So I think...I'm just saying let's not lose sight of that, that we can be as much in control of the outcome as we possibly can but if we choose not to go back and negotiate, we're choosing to fail And this community needs affordable housing. How we achieve the different levels of it, that's open for debate. We need more.
No, we need more and what we're going to or we're not going to mince words over low or extremely low. I'm going to let our negotiating team figure that out with the information they've gathered tonight. And I wanted to bring one other thing up. I think this gentleman, I'm sorry, I was gonna say gentlemen but this lady in the pink, what was your name? Robin, I think Robin had a great idea that we bring a consultant in to help us negotiate this affordable side of it. I mean, I don't know about you guys but she made me feel small because I didn't have answers to her questions but I also didn't have her facts so it's not that you're 100% my eyes but you're probably 99%.
But that's what we need. So it doesn't hurt us to gather more information, get more guidance and give this one more shot and let's give this group an opportunity. And if they don't, they don't. It isn't gonna hurt us. Doesn't hurt us so I guess I need to make a motion
Well, we have a motion to deny the current development agreement. So
so what I would like to do is is to Matt help me with this is
substitute motion will be
the substitute motion. And the substitute motion would be to send this back to the ad hoc committee. A list of all of the ideas from each council member should you want to participate in it and the notes that I know that we have taken. The city manager and Robin and with Lucas, I think we should get a consultant in affordable housing. And I think that we should give this group our ad hoc committee who by the way We, all five of us assigned it and gave it to it. Yes we did.
All five of us did and I'm waiting for Matt to tell me to shut up on it but we all five said and appointed these two gentlemen to go about this task so I say let's... Pardon me?
The one clarification there was before Mayor Stixx was on the council was the prior mayor And the other members of the council.
I remember, I also remember clearly us sitting in a room back here
There were discussions and close session discussions of the subject Yes After Mayor Strix was on the Council but Mayor Strix was not on the Council when the initial appointments were made
Okay
So aside from that
Wait a minute we were at Libby Bowl Discussing this No
the committee was made in 2019
Yes. So during COVID at Libby Bowl, I listened to the... We
discussed it at Libby Bowl and the council made a public recommendation to move forward in January of this year at Libby Bowl but the ad hoc committee was appointed in 2019 with the four and then Mayor Johnston not Mayor Stix that's the one clarification.
Okay thank you mayor I stand corrected okay so that's my motion.
I have a question Your motion does not preclude further discussion. It's just a fresh start.
Fresh start, okay. So the motion is to... May I have a substitute motion?
Is there a second? I'll second it. You can second it.
Can you repeat the substitute motion, meaning to give it back to the ad hoc committee?
Yes. Along with bringing an affordable housing expert into the conversation and ensuring that all of the public record comments are given to that group so they can actually They can work through the historic overlay. They can work through housing vouchers, so they can work through the relocation issue which again there is no one on this dais that would ever evict anyone from a home in this process. Zero chance of that.
The performance bond for 10 years, the 10-year project. All of this needs to be given back and discussed so we're probably saying the same thing I'm just saying keep this intact let's move this because there's a guideline or there's a body here
I do have a motion. Do we vote on this one first and then
Roll-call vote Moved by Randy Haney · Seconded by William Weirick
Show transcript
Okay, go ahead. I would like to bring our attention to the secret report that we received from Sabrina Venskis. Specifically the second-to-last page because This development, the addition of respective units would have a negligible impact on utility and public service capacity but contain no discussion of the current water reserves in the Ojai Groundwater Basin nor the Lake Casitas Reservoir. Nor the cumulative impact on water supply for the entire proposed project when combined with other projects within the same area.
Nor does the analysis take into account the current extended drought, climate derivation, temperature rise nor the fact that the Ventura County's 2.6 degrees Celsius rise in average temperature is the highest of any county in the continental U.S., With an average temperature increase of 2.6 degrees since pre-industrial times, Ventura ranks as the fastest warming county in the lower 48 states. Given that information I'd like to read this substitute motion. I move to direct staff to prepare an environmental impact report under the California Environmental Quality Act For the project, which constitutes the four development sites including 321 West Aliso Street, 107 North Ventura Street, 304 South Montgomery Street and 412 Mallory Way. Including density increases for two sites, 107 North Ventura Street and 304 South Montgomery Street And a zone change from a public quasi-public to village mixed use for one site, and that's 107 North Ventura Street.
That's case number 21-037. That is my substitute motion. So...
Is there a second? I'll second. All right.
Okay. So do we have a roll call on that one right now?
5:05 – 5:1144 turns
If there's discussion, I would summarize. Obviously there is discussion. Please speak up. To summarize, the substantive motion would be to direct staff to move forward with the development agreement as proposed and to prepare an EIR for the whole project. Your motion was to prepare an EIR for the project as it is on the table?
The
motion that
you read was to
prepare an EIR for the project as it's proposed right now. If you wish to also have staff renegotiated, that would
need to be added. I'll stick to that motion.
Okay, so it'd be to prepare an EIR for the project is and then return with Information that EIR for further review okay? Okay, and we have a
second I'm sorry you're proposing an ERR For not for the current project that we obviously have many questions of concerns about So help me understand I don't get it. I don't get the purpose. If
we are not ready to, if the council's not ready to vote to start again on this then I'm suggesting that we do the environmental impact report.
I would abstain. Okay. I don' understand.
Okay, and I did too. I would prefer my first motion if
that's... Yes. I mean, I am just so clear that I want to see those two, the Mallory Way bungalows and the Aliso Street cottages preserved. And then we look at everything else separate and get World University going.
So no second for my substitute motion?
That's what I understood.
Okay, so
that motion dies.
So we're going back to the first motion where we are giving it back to the ad hoc committee, correct? Correct. Are we ready for a roll call please?
Roll-call vote Passed 3–2 motion where we are giving it back to the ad hoc committee, correct? Correct. Are we ready for a roll call
Show transcript
okay
thank you very much all right we will now
move on to item number
three.
Madam Mayor if I could summarize for the public that might be helpful So what the council just did by a three to two vote is to remand the matter to the ad hoc committee comprised of Council Member Blatz and Council Member Wyrick, to negotiate further with the developer taking into account all of the issues raised tonight. To see it come back with a better deal as the best that the ad hoc committee can pull off. To then return to the city council once negotiated to include bringing in an affordable housing consultant slash expert to assist in the city in those negotiations. That will return to the council once negotiated at an uncertain time.
So, to be clear, the project is not moving forward yet or at this point we don't know for sure it's going back to the drawing board. Thank
you. I would also like to clarify something that might help Mayor Sticks is that one of the issues that was brought up is EIR and the CEQA so that is in the conversation and that will be a part of what is discussed and how the ad hoc committee chooses to deal with it, to bring it back to us. They could submit that they would like a complete up-to-date 2022 EIR and CEQA review.
I'm giving them that opportunity to do that so I didn't want to squash what you were trying to achieve. I think it's achievable. Let's put it there and put it there and let's go at it.
So all right now with staff understanding, thank
you. Okay? Yes If you're considering all the comments that were made tonight Councilmember wiring I'm over here The possibility that we look at each project on its own merit, and that we look at the communicative impact of all four projects together. That's
part of it?
That's part of the
discussion. It's all part of it, yeah. The only comment I would make about EIR is you don't want to spend that money until you have a project to evaluate. Yeah,
and the reality is the cost of it could kill the entire project from any affordability. So we've got to look at that and balance the factors. And I was very clear that I really want to see water and hopefully a net zero policy that we can figure out.
All right, moving on. Thank you all for being here. Moving on to number three, extension of an emergency ordinance continuing the moratorium on new formula business regulations.
Can we just say yes?
Do we have a staff report on this?
Yeah, I'm recommending extending it so it can keep reaching out to
businesses. Okay, all right. We need a motion.
Okay
I'll second
that. It is a public hearing so we need to see if there's any public
comment at all. Okay, oh we have one Leslie Davis. Is she still here?
Yeah she probably thinks we're making a decision.
Nope okay. Any public comments on Zoom?
Yeah? Leslie Davis was one of the originators.
If there's anyone in the zoom queue who would like to speak on this item please use the raise hand function now
Okay, all right. Did you make the moat? Did you make a motion already the motion to extend I will second that Okay, we need a roll call for this. Yep roll call, please. Yeah
Roll-call vote Passed 5–0 motion to extend I will second that Okay, we need a roll call for this. Yep roll call,
Show transcript
5:11 – 5:2371 turns
All
right moving on to number four appeal to City Council filed by William Wyrick, William Ulrich and Bob Daddy related to city not scheduling an appeal hearing before the city's Buildings Appeal Board of a termination by Ventura County Fire Department requiring residential sprinklers in a new construction accessory dwelling unit or ADU
I'll move that we continue this.
Can I ask a point of order on this? Do we sacrifice any rights by the appellant if we continue the item given the hour?
I don't believe so, and I'll ask Mr. Juzwiak to confirm if we push it does that harm the project?
It may delay the project.
Okay, so potential delay but not fatal is my sense of it.
Tom, you're going to have to dry clean your suit again. Sorry for bringing it back later. You guys really want to have an appeal hearing at 1115? Probably not.
I'm not even sure if the homeowners are present. That might also, if they're not present then perhaps it's continuing so they can be present.
Well, I move that we continue to the next available date. Second.
I can't vote.
Okay, do we need a roll call? I think he needs to recuse himself. I'm out of here. I want to walk away from this. Gail, can we have a roll call on this
one? Council Member Francina.
I want to vote last.
Doesn't work that way. Yeah, I've seen it. No it doesn't.
Well we're just voting to Deloitte.
Oh
it doesn't.
Excuse me, I can't vote last?
Roll-call vote Passed 2–0 · 1 under review
Show transcript
He's recused. Oh, recusing! I'm sorry, I knew that. You
can't
vote
on the item.
Mayor Stixx? Yes
Okay great Let's move on to council member reports and I just want to give a big shout out to Stand Up Ojai and the Rancho Inn for organizing the march on Saturday for reproductive rights there were over 400 people and it was really fantastic so thank you Any other council member reports?
Mayor, I think you missed number seven. We still need to continue that.
Oh, we continued seven before. That's
okay. What happened? We're continuing seven.
Yeah, it's the League of Cities conference. What we'll do is... We have voting delegates. Will we continue that? Yeah, we can still delegate later. We'll just book the room in the meantime. Did we also continue six? Yes.
If I can just comment that we can't book the room if we don't have a delegate.
We can book
a hotel
room. OK, fine.
That's fine. So we're at any other council member reports?
I just want to make a suggestion. A lot of people don't understand that the staff report is if you go to this summary and click on the highlight, I'm amazed at the number of people that don't know that they keep saying telling me they can't find the staff report. Can we put something to make that
clear? I was going to say the same thing. Had some feedback that people aren't clear, to click on the highlight if we could have an instruction for that on the website to make that very
clear. You know how we have instructions for everything else? That's how they can click for the reports. Right here not just on the website. Something that is very
clear and
obvious because
there are people who haven't understood that. Okay yeah we can do
that. We have such a wonderful engaged public it will make it easy for them to read the staff
report. Any other council member reports? Okay city manager's report.
Yeah, just a very brief one We snuck it in Barbara Number
six was the
We just want to see you again. The HPC item. We continued that after the
break, yeah? I can't get the technology to work so I'll just read it but... So we wanted to do a couple updates one is on well there's two projects that we wanted to update everybody on. One is that the first Measure C project the installation of solar panel and battery backup to add more 100% solar power into the grid and provide resiliency and other benefits.
If you drove in today, you saw that the solar panels have been installed. The batteries have been installed. And we're working on the last couple items to get it up and operational. So yeah, this is the first solar panel installation of I think what we're planning to have a few more at some of the city facilities. And so we have some photos of that will post those online since this isn't cooperating.
The other item after much ado think about probably eight or nine months ago we had we had talked about having a new sign for the front of City Hall. It has
the.
Yeah, that you mesh word for Ojai and the phases of the moon as we worked with Julie to my Stensley on that. And so we went kind of worked through that process and then got it to the sign maker and we have have it will be installing it will also put a plaque explaining that to 2 people underneath. So yeah, so that's moving forward. I wish there was bigger. And then just last, I know we talked about event mitigation.
We don't have any big events coming up but there's a few concerts one is the Rotary West Wednesday night concerts are back and the next one is tomorrow at 730 at Libbey Park and those are the ones that the city approved fee waivers to support. And then Saturday the 16th at 7 p.m.. We have I believe it's owing go owing go boing go Tribute band at Libby, I think it's members of Oingo Boingo and then the We have two big community meetings before the next council meeting we wanted to tell everybody out about one is the general plan update Is kind of re-kicking off now that we can be back in person on August 2nd at 5 30 p.M. Here at Kent Hall We also have Wednesday, August 10th. We're going to be posting that we're gonna have the evacuation guide Stakeholder meeting at Kent Hall where will invite all the different groups that are involved but also the public can come participate So we'll post that information as well and then We all also are working We are expecting to host the chamber mixer this month at Kent Hall is our first big event so a lot of things coming up at Kent Hall
Thank you. That's exciting, James. All right we'll move on to future agenda items. Well following in Oxnard's footsteps I'd like to put on the agenda the consideration of adopting a resolution declaring Ojai a right-to-choose sanctuary city supportive of reproductive rights. By declaring itself a sanctuary city Ojai will not cooperate with the enforcement of laws aimed at limiting reproductive freedom.
I'll second.
Okay, thank you. Ryan?
I was well first. I'd like to see if there's a second for I you know Mary you chose not to and and I don't think we wanted to Have a really awkward moment at the beginning of all this about the three minutes But the reason we switch it down to a lower period of time when there's that many people is out of respect for the people Not necessarily how much they've say if you notice there was about 40 something cards of people that signed up and didn't participate So, I don't think the extra minute is actually increasing participation It's counter to it And if we're gonna end up in this situation again, I'd like to see if anybody wants to just so we can codify a rule that says over a certain number of speaker cards We're going to automatically do that So it doesn't end up in that awkward moment and maybe even have it graduated where if we have that many?
We're down to a minute and a half. So don't know if anybody be willing to entertain that but that's the agenda item And then the other one is, I was contacted by a group who is interested in either getting signatures for a referendum but also moving forward with ending the directly elected mayor. And they wanted, they asked me about some information about how that had passed. You know what the votes were in the past and how it had worked and they were looking into getting signatures but I know Matt when is the last? When's the deadline for getting stuff on the November ballot?
The absolute deadline is 88 days before the election which is August 12th.
Yeah, so we're close on the next meeting. The
next meeting is after that. We'd have to schedule a special meeting before
that. So I mean if we're willing to entertain it this was a group who said hey you know it looks like there was no campaign for it last time but they were very adamant and wanted to have some organization in it. I know this is something Council Member Ainey's brought up before and we all had a hard time figuring out what we want to do since been on the ballot twice If there's a second for it, I'm willing to try and get it done. Although we may have to do something special to get it done if we're gonna do it versus them getting on the ballot on our referendum.
Yes, so I think if there was a second, we would have to... Oh, there'd be a second? There is a second. Okay, to hold a special meeting in early August.
Yeah. May I comment? Yeah please, I mean... We also when this came up before That was wrapped around and I know there may be no interest other than myself in looking at this, but it looks like the only legally defensible way of doing away with districting is to consider a ranked choice voting system. And whether we want to, if there's no support for that then fine. But I thought there was also a desire to get away from districts and I think it's the only legally defensible approach.
But if there's no interest, there's no
interest. I'm still interested but it kind of dropped it but we did get information. I don't know what the latest is.
Well, it'd have to be voted on by the public I assume. Absolutely. So we'd have to buy that same deadline if we wanted to get on the November ballot. If we're
going to have a special meeting on this I thought we could do that discussion
too. The only hard part is that could get really confusing for people but I mean yeah. I
was told the county has set up to handle it. They got the computer program for it.
Okay, now that there's some voting rights issues and for the Supreme Court that could kill but until then we're okay I'm not the state either the federal supreme court,
but they finished issuing rulings for this year.
Yeah
Aside from emergency rulings which are possible at any time They've taken up a case a couple cases on that That'll be quite the case next year At this point mindful is not on tonight's agenda We can return with a special meeting that would have Two interrelated items. One is a ballot measure to shift back to an appointed mayor, two is a ballot measure to make choice voting for all five. It's relatively easy to draft it'll be up to council to decide.
That might be I mean they're similar topics. I do want to say though make it clear everyone none of these would go into effect in the next election. They would be on a ballot in November in the election, but they wouldn't go into effect until an election after that. So this isn't about changing anything before this election. It's just about looking forward and getting the public an opportunity to vote on it. Absolutely.
It will be up to the voters in the end.
Yeah. And given that we... Well I'm okay with a special meeting on that issue if we want to do it.
Okay. All right anything else? All right thank you all for a productive and informative meeting and we are adjourned.