City Council — 2023-05-23

Everyone, a call to order. We have a quorum. Could we please have the roll call? Weston.

Yes. Thank you, Mayor. Please join me in standing right hand over your heart. Ready to begin?

Commission reports We have two one from Brian Aikens the Historic Preservation Commission and one from Valerie Freeman for the Arts Commission Take it away Brian. Thank you I

So this commissioner report's just a little bit tough to do. About 10 years ago, my good buddy David Mason was the museum rep on the Historic Preservation Commission. He always had great stories so I came and sat right there. With him were people like... With David were people like Patricia Clark Dorner Rose Boggs, Terry Hill and we even had Craig Walker who we finally got back on here.

I want to just mention that Terry received the HPC annual award in 2007 and then 2018 he received the lifetime achievement award There'll be more on Terry Hill, I think in maybe a future meeting. But I just wanted to let you know that the man that we all loved very much and appreciated and looked up to passed away this last Saturday at 11 o'clock so... I talked to Claire today an obituary is being worked on by one of the daughters and they're putting together Their plans for what will take place, but a wonderful man. And I know I know Councilmember Whitman had a very special relationship with them So thank you

Thank You Brian so sorry to hear that Valerie

That was a great event last night. I'm here on behalf of the Arts Commissioner. I am Valerie Freeman, Arts Commissioner at Ojai City Residence and this is long overdue. Ojai Magazine did a complimentary walking tour of our East City Tour of Public Art. I submitted this back last year in September, and whenever they said they would just put something in when they had extra space. And so I'm very grateful that Ojai Magazine... This is their spring issue, so it's long overdue. I think there are summer issues coming out. But it has city public art and public art. Everything in here isn't city public art but it's a fabulous tour.

And I've been appointed to be head of grants And that's a huge thing for Ojai because we have such an abundant creative community and a lot of people, organizations applying for grants and not enough funds because we have a limited budget. So the idea came to do a grant writing workshop where we educate the community and creative groups and creative people how to research and find other grants that are outside, that they can use to complement the OHAI grant. So they're not coming to us for 100% of their grant.

And so Pam Grau, Commissioner Grau put together a grant writing workshop and it's Thursday June 1st From 2 to 4 p.m., it's at the Ojai Valley Museum, and it's free. And so the City of Ojai Arts Commission and the Ojai Valley Museum are excited to announce a grant writing seminar Designed to equip attendees with the knowledge and skills needed to effectively secure funding for their projects.

Through this expert-led session, participants will gain a comprehensive understanding of the grant writing process including identifying funding opportunities, crafting compelling proposals And navigating the submission and review process. And the instructor facilitator is Heidi Whitman, and we're just so excited that she's going to be doing this. And on another note with the website hopefully our Ojai Arts Grant applications will be available in June for the public to download or swing by City Hall to pick up.

Make sure those get posted.

Thank you.

Much appreciated, Valerie. Great news! The tour looks beautiful and wonderful to have grant writers. Grant workshop. Exciting. All right we will move on to public communication and just a reminder these are items not on the agenda and because they're not in the agenda we cannot discuss them We appreciate your viewpoint and participation, and we can agendize them for the future. And public comment is three minutes.

At the end of the free minutes you will hear a chime as a gentle reminder that your time is up. Please respect each other's time in the spirit of equity and stop talking when the chime sounds. There's no giving away time to another speaker, and if you're in agreement with a previous person please just say ditto. And I just want to add, please be respectful of other people's opinions. Even if you don't agree with them, please respect their right to express an opinion. That is the bottom line of democracy. So I'm going to ask the audience to just refrain from any side comments or conversation because once again, the ambient noise makes it very challenging for us to hear up here and we need to be able to make decisions and hear everything.

Okay, we will begin with Brian Aikens John Boetti and Carl Hindman

And that's why we get here at 530 Thank you good point Public comments so I can talk about anything and so I will talk to you today with a different hat that me You may not know about. I am the treasurer of the friends of Oakview Park and Resource Center just Go off subject just for a minute. Oakview Park and Resource Center is where the former Oakview Elementary School was.

They closed that school, both our children went through it. It was looking like it was going to be sold for developers and the community said yeah no way. And so they put out feelers to all of the people that were in that area of influence and we bought the school. We bought the property And now it is the Friends of the Oak View Park and Resource Center currently has a YMCA group, a Boys and Girls Club there. They have all kinds of activities going on all the time. The other thing that we're kind of famous for is our wonderful Memorial Day Parade in Oak View. It goes all the way – I still got to get over there and measure it but it's probably half a mile if I'm stretching It goes from Oakview Avenue and Old Ventura Road all the way down to Oakview, or not.

Old Ventura Road in Oakview Avenue down to Old Ventura Road and Park Road which is where Greg Grintz knows. Everybody knows Greg. So that is coming up this Thursday. We have a new person Mindy McQuillan who's been working on this. Remember The Fallen Soldier? All of the different things that are going to take place, it's very touching. I think she even negotiated with Smokey the Bear to pass out the flags rather than just sit in the fire at the end of the parade. So again and our own Harry Hunt Jr is a Grand Marshal so we will have his information as well as his father's information mentioned in that. So again Monday 10 o'clock You can go on either end you want but it will the parade will come in from the north end. Okay, thank you all

Thank you very much Brian John Boettie then Carl Heineman then Marion Niglio

Good evening Council. I just want to thank you, I mean last night you were in session for four and a half hours tonight who knows five hours maybe a total of ten we really appreciate it so on behalf the community thank you So, on May 4th 2023 a report by the Ventura County Grand Jury into whether Councilmember Francina violated the Ojai Municipal Code's residency requirement for City Council members was issued.

Their investigation determined that Ms. Francina had not, quote, maintained a permanent fixed domicile within the district from which she was elected since December of 2021. It goes on to say that her seat on the council, quote became vacated 30 days after violating the requirement. In other words, Ms. Francina has been serving on the City Council illegally since January of 2022 or for a little more perspective on that she has served on the dais for approximately the last 30 meetings illegally.

Beyond the moral and ethical implications associated with Ms. Francina's transgressions are the possible ramifications to the city of votes she has cast During the time that her seat should have been vacated. As far as I can tell, her votes at the last 30 meetings should be invalidated. Miss Francina had no more right to vote on City Council issues than I or any other citizen would have.

One extremely important vote that comes to mind is the vote to send the referendum on the Becker Agreement to the voters in March of 2024. She was in the majority of a 3-2 vote approving that decision. Without her vote, it's a 2-2 tie. With someone else in her seat, the vote quite possibly could have gone 3 to 2 against. Mr. Summers, I would like to hear your opinion on this matter but before you do in addition I would like to ask why she continues to sit on the council and in particular why she is serving tonight when the grand jury on May 4th said her seat was vacated 16 months ago?

Thank You John. Mr. City Attorney any comment

I'm happy to comment very briefly, as I think folks have seen. The grand jury report is not itself a declaration of vacancy. The grand jury does not have the power to remove a council member from office. Only a court sitting in a court of competent jurisdiction on a final non-appealable judgment has that power. No court, to my knowledge, has ordered that the seat of Mayor Pro Tem is vacant.

Obviously if a court order is issued, the city will comply with any court order or appeal as applicable. The City Council has scheduled the matter for the next regular meeting on June 13th to consider the city's response as an institution to the civil grand jury's four requests for response. The council will decide at that meeting what response to make. End of comments.

Oh, and actually on the last one. There is an existing doctrine of office or doctrine of law called the apparent office holder doctrine that provides in some that if there is a question about an office holder having or not having the right to sit in the office, the decisions that were made while they were in office with the apparent authority of the office are valid even if they're later held to not have had the office. So even if the mayor pro tem is declared later to not have held the seats as of Whatever date the court find its finds it vacant that doesn't invalidate the decisions made by the City Council before Those will stand.

Okay Thank You Matt Okay, next we have Carl Hindman then Marion Niglio then Larry Steingold

I Just want to say first off that I understand Ms. Francina has not had the best time finding housing in this expensive city, so I wish you the best and I hope it works out. I don't want people...I'm going to speak tonight about the family of Ojai and your part of the family and I think all these things that are going on are just driving me crazy. I want to make some general comments about lawsuits and what Occam's razor says is usually The simplest solution is usually the best. And you know, this can be solved very easily if you know these lawyers, if you know them personally. I've heard people say that you know them. I don't know that it's a fact. Just call them up and say drop the lawsuits. Right now I've heard of two and there's a group called Simply Ojai.

They seem to have a lot of attorneys working for them. I'm going to talk about two...I'm going to define two terms I'm not a lawyer, but this is what they use right now in this country. It started with the left and now both sides are using it. One is called lawfare. Lawfare. The use of legal systems and institutions to damage or delegitimize an opponent wasting their time or money or to deter individuals' usage of their legal rights.

So it's pretty, I think it's pretty easy to file a lawsuit. It's cost the city, I believe $29,000 so far that didn't have to happen. They could've dropped the lawsuits. A second term S-L-A-A P SLAP. SLAP lawsuits stands for Strategic Lawsuits Against Public Participation. Lawsuits intended to censor, intimidate or silence critics By burdening them with the cost of legal defense until they abandon their criticism or opposition, it is a form of strategic litigation. Do we really want this in Ojai? I don't think we want this in Ojai. Again, Occam's Razor, the simplest solution is usually the best. We can all as a family, we can simply not do this. Why are the taxpayers paying $29,000 legal defense? It doesn't make any sense! It doesn't make any sense to pick on this young lady because she can't find housing.

I mean, these are political moves that are not important. I think we need to get together. My advice? Let's just drop the lawsuits. Thank you.

Thank you Carl. Next we have Marion Niglio then Larry Steingold then Jeffrey Starkweather.

Tonight I will address three questions Why have more healthy young people been dying and becoming disabled since 2021? What are the findings of the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, and what are the findings of hundreds of published papers? And why is this important to employers and employees? First, why have more healthy employed young people than ever before been dying and becoming disabled since 2021?

In 2021 Edward Dowd a Wall Street analyst brought international attention to the fact that healthy working age Americans were dying and dying suddenly at an alarming rate not seen before. His research as follows answers the question why have healthy employed young people been dying and becoming disabled since 2021? Second, what are the findings of the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics and what are the findings of hundreds of published papers answering that question?

A study conducted by Bureau of Labor Statistics confirms that beginning in 2021, the number of employed Americans who became disabled increased from 30 million prior to 2021 to almost 33 million. Mass COVID vaccination began in 2021. Furthermore, there are hundreds of published papers on COVID vaccine-induced cardiac injuries to young people. Many of these published papers are posted on the government website and findings of serious adverse events came from the papers published in the Pfizer and Moderna COVID vaccination trials.

Finally, all-cause mortality in the U.S. and Western Europe as exposed by the insurance industry has increased 40 percent beginning in the third quarter of 2021. These findings are extraordinary and were unprecedented before mandatory vaccination of employees began in 2021. Third, why is this information important to employers and employees? Business owners. Do you own a business that stipulated that employees must be COVID-19 vaccinated to continue working at your business?

Are you still enforcing such a stipulation? Are you aware that a claim as a trespass by way of extortion could be made? How much could a business be sued for If their employee or employees were injured as a result of the vaccine, or worse yet died from the vaccine. Employees did your place of employment stipulate that you could lose your job if you didn't get vaccinated? Did you experience a serious adverse event from the vaccine? Or were you disabled from the vaccine and can no longer work? Do you know someone at your work who died from the vaccine? If so, get legal advice immediately if this applies to you. Thank you.

I was going to talk about something else, but Sousa Francina needs a home and everybody here talks about affordability. And we're jumping through hoops for rent stabilization and building housing or not having housing or converting housing. The coin of phrase I would say is she the poster child for the problem of OI? Solve it. If we're gonna solve it, solve it for her.

Everybody else needs it. That being said, OK? We need money. Last night I asked Mr. LeVere for $3 million. He's running for re-election. Use it! Mr. Bennett, Ms. Lamone, we need three million dollars otherwise we're going to raise the sales tax and we're gonna raise the TOT and affect a million people coming here so they can have nice roads so that we can live better. So that we have nice roads and we have nice things and things that are not deferred and maintenance and things get done OK, just ask for the money. It's either that or raise the tax. Why don't you propose to raise the tax tonight? Put it on the agenda and say let's propose to raise the sales tax in the TOT $5 million a year.

That'll get their attention. It'll get the end's attention. It'll get everybody else's attention. Then they'll either come up with the money or we raise the tax. We have no other choice. Where are we going to get the funds? So do something because it's eventually going to happen. So why not just ask them? They can say no, and then it's an election issue.

Thank you Larry. Next we have Jeffrey Starkweather, then Wayne Maynard, then Jeffrey Snyder.

Mayor, can I speak to that real quick before the timer starts? Just as a reminder, so the council did ask the staff to bring back a report in the next couple of meetings related to tax options that the council could consider And just as a reminder, almost any tax option that we could think of would have to go through a Prop 218 vote which then means it will take some time until we have the next elections in 2024. So they are options in the future but they are not necessarily immediate options so we'll bring that report back soon.

Thank you for the clarification James

Good evening Mayor, City Council members, fellow citizens. I want to make a little announcement first as the president of Ojai Democratic Club, Ojai Valley Democratic Club and also as a committee member of the Housing Task Force we're going to jointly co-sponsor a homelessness panel on June 11th at Kent Hall, assuming it's available, Weston. And it will be from 3.30 to 5.30 and we're focusing on prevention of homelessness And long-term transition and housing for homelessness. Those two things, so we have three groups all local that are doing great stuff here in Ojai. So we want to talk about one is MESA which is doing the for foster kids And it's a homeless prevention program. We have Help of Ojai, of course, that's in our housing element.

I hope we fund them for helping people stay in their homes through their... I forget what it's called but it's payment program to help people stay in their homes and they do other stuff with homeless and Cabrillo which has a new development. I'm not talking about the one here in Ojai, but the one in Miramonte, which is, I think it's 40 units and 20 of them are homeless people with actual disabilities and serious problems, but also they're gonna have a really low income one for low-income workers.

So all of them are gonna be talking about strategies for helping homeless. Second thing is, I appreciate Matt's clarifying about the issue of the grand jury because the grand jury is no different than the DA's statement to this city which you've all rejected. So I don't know why someone would think that that's law but it Is what Susan is facing essentially is the result of not, in my opinion, not building houses and homelessness.

And I am reading which I'm going to use as part of this seminar a brand new book called Homelessness is a Housing Problem. They show statistically that it's about lack of housing, And finally, if we had not gone to districts, Susan wouldn't have an issue. We passed a referendum to go to at-large and rank choice voting. I know there's a legal problem but I noticed the City of the County of Santa Clara has a local bill by their legislators to allow rank choice voting in districts, I mean non-districts so I have Contacted Steve Bennett and said we would like to have our local bill as well So we could go to at-large and get away from district because there was no My opinion, thank you.

Thank You Jeffrey Sure I

wanted to make a brief comment if I could just to clarify one point the council's actions last night in the workshop and on item number two did not reject The district attorney's request for the unconditional commitment to not repeat product violations instead The council deferred the consideration of that request to the next meeting on June 13th

I don't think I said that they rejected it, but maybe I did. You said exactly that phrase. That's why I'm correcting the record. At least the council has not said that we violated—they denied that we violated so far.

And as noted, the unconditional commitment response per the statutory language does not include an admission nor acceptance of guilt. It simply says without admitting nor accepting liability, the council commits to not repeat the violations. That's again on the future meeting agenda.

I understand that.

Was not rejected.

I have two things. I very much look forward to the June 13th meeting of a statement. I'm greatly relieved that I can speak to it at last because I was not allowed to speak about it, but now I can. But secondly more important we had a citizen task force meeting of 10 people last Wednesday morning and we had the Santa Paula homeless director I'm not prepared. Kay Bolton, you know she's had an exemplary program for about 15 years and she was on speakerphone because she was helping the homeless as she spoke but I'd like to contact you tomorrow to find out if we can have a little time.

Okay sure and by the way you're all invited yeah and you know We welcome you coming and making statements, asking questions. We're gonna try to organize it so that people hand in questions but we certainly will recognize any city council members or staff or anyone to speak on it because this is an issue that we all should be tackling together in unison in my opinion thank you.

Thank You Jeffrey and I do have a clarifying question for the public really for you Matt Sure. So the grand jury has findings, the DA has opinions, right? And so they're different. Can you just elaborate a little bit on

that? Briefly yes. The district attorney issued a letter asserting that the district attorney believes the Brown Act was violated in various ways discussed last night and asked the city to issue an unconditional commitment to not repeat those violations if issued that prohibits litigation by the district attorney on that issue. That's his opinion. It's a district attorney opinion Further statute then triggers a process. The grand jury issues findings of fact and issues recommendations and requests for response also per their separate statute, and the city has X days to respond to that request for responding to their findings, and they have specific recommendations that they've made that the city has to respond to, and also one for the city clerk to respond to.

Okay. Thank you, because the DA is not a judge and I think there's some confusion about that.

And most importantly none of those folks are judges. The district attorney is not a judge. The civil grand jury is also not a judge. Right. Judges are judges. Okay thank you very much.

All right. Since you brought it up I'll make clear that the grand jury at the interview told me all they can do is harass me. We were joking about it because they totally understood my situation, they wanted documentation which I provided and this I'm not going to say again because several times, I thought I had housing. But this time, I'm not going to announce it until I've signed all the paperwork and the place is really vacated. But you should know that a number of times, I thought I had housing. I've lost countless deposits but the people didn't move because they themselves could not find a place. It's like musical chairs And the public needs to understand that. Nobody who hasn't walked in my shoes has any idea what I have been through in the last 18 months, but you'll hear the full story now that I can finally speak.

You should be ashamed of yourself, the rest of you criticizing me.

Shameful.

Thank you very

much. It's Wayne then Jeffrey Snyder then Anita Cram.

Wayne Maynard a resident of Ojai and I really want to say again how much appreciated last night's meeting and what I learned And it got me thinking of a couple things when I got home. And first was last year there was a Commissioner attendance report that was given and at that meeting, I requested that the The procedures be revised to where? Commissioners that are not available for a meeting which causes the meeting to be canceled due to lack of a quorum, let those be considered absences.

One of the commissions I follow is the Arts Commission. The last two regular meetings have been canceled due to lack of a quorum and I don't know how to look up which commissioners were not available. I think that's important for transparency. Following up on that, several Council meetings ago there was a handout given to the Council on the five-year plan for the Arts Commission and that's a subject I've been following. I went to their workshop but there hasn't been in any public arts commission meeting to discuss a five year plan because I have some concerns on some of the things I heard at their planning meeting that I would like to address Another issue is I noticed that the Arts Commission budget increased in the budget.

And there hasn't been any public hearing or meeting at the Arts Commission discussing their budget request to the city. Last year, I was able to have some comments about that. This year it wasn't. So with everything we learned last night, I think we need to make sure we're looking down at the commission level And the commissions are aware of all the Brown Act implications, including this chain part that I learned about last night. Because I kind of think that might be how business is being done right now.

Thank you much.

Thank you, Wayne. Next we have Jeffrey Schneider then Anita Cram and then Balanced Sanctuarian.

And Mayor just on that point real quick I'll follow up with the staff liaison and make sure that the Arts Commission they've had some changes in some new members So we'll make sure that they're aware of the Brown Act. I had understood a lot of that came out of their workshop which was noticed but it will make sure that that's happening and make sure that That that's clear

Thank you, James.

Okay. Council, citizens, very interesting workshop last night. A lot of things got aired. I came across this quote by Edmund Burke, the great 18th century British statesman Who noted the tendency of politicians to attempt to force cultural change that cannot be won at the ballot box. I think the mess we find ourselves in today is a direct reflection of that tendency.

Seems very clear to me, that the council majority and most likely the council legal This person has sacrificed transparency in order to serve their ambitious social and environmental goals. History provides us with many examples of utopian dreamers who feel zealous justification to seize power at any cost, believing that the ends justify the means they take to achieve those ends.

This philosophy always ends badly May we learn our lesson, lest we repeat it. Transparency and truthfulness are always the answer. Admit what you have wrought. Seek the truth. Thank you very much.

Thank you Jeffrey. Next we have Anita Cram and then Balance Sanctuarian.

Good evening and thank you to city staff, mayor, council members for all your work. First of all I'd like to bring up the tax issue and maybe this isn't possible but I hope you have looked into taxing houses that sit empty for six months and one day Because I think this is a huge problem with the housing problem is that more and more houses are bought up, and they're not lived in and they're basically taken out of the community. Housing element or whatever you want to say. And next I just have to say something about the indemnification discussion.

As we know the district attorney of Ventura County Yeah, but it doesn't say there's a public comment on that It didn't say on the agenda that there was a public comment period for

item number seven. Yep.

I saw nowhere on the

The items discussion items don't specifically state that but there is a public

okay So that's why I was here because it was not in it was not notated I apologize to everyone in the audience because I'm going to start a filibuster now.

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Thank you balance. Thank you balance time's up thank you very much appreciate it. Well, I'm sorry. Mr. City...

State law guarantees that if you continue to disrupt the meeting after having been warned that you're being disrupted then the police chief may remove you. This is your warning. I defer to the council.

I'm sorry, Mr. Balanced. Thank you, Chief. Weston, any comments online?

No raised hands on Zoom Mayor.

I have a quick statement. Yeah,

can we have quiet please? This is completely non sequitur but one thing he did say was harmonic conversion and I got married on the harmonic conversion of 1987. It reminded me way back in the day.

Mayor we have one raised hand since. Okay

go

ahead. We have Becky. We have a little technical. James Han, could you please give me access to allow our Zoom guests to speak online? All right. Becky, you have the floor for public comment.

Thank you, Weston. Good evening everyone. I'm grateful for the transparency workshop last night. I might have learned more had it not been for the continued interruptions, repeated false accusations about others and overall disrespect for the presenter, the other council members, the staff and the public displayed by Leslie Rule, Susa Francina and their supporters.

Since this Council's first meetings and beginning in earnest at the January 24th meeting, Ms. Ruhle has disrupted virtually every meeting, talked over other speakers, insisted on speaking out of turn and failed to yield the floor to others when requested by the mayor as chairperson. She has bounced on her ball, looked at her phone, rolled her eyes and made other dismissive gestures when others have expressed divergent opinions or have taken time to carefully select their words.

Like a toddler she demands that she must be heard now without listening attentively and respectfully to others in turn. She and Sousa can often be seen and sometimes heard on a hot mic talking between themselves, smirking and chuckling derisively at others. This kind of conduct is unprofessional and unbecoming to city council members, and it reflects poorly on the other council members in the community.

Council member Lang spoke last night about how the divisiveness engendered by Ms. Ruhle has negatively affected her life. Yet rules disrespect continued throughout the meeting, even in her insistence that the way she wants the law to read is how it should read rather than the way the highly qualified presenter informed us that it does read. Democracy depends on following the rule of law and the ability to engage in civil discourse in order to find the strength inherent in our diversity. Yet both Ms. Rule and Ms. Francina show an utter disregard for the rule of law, insisting that what they want should be the law and that they are somehow above the law Yet still entitled to expect others to support them financially. People complain about the council not getting enough done, if you cannot agree to behave according to the rule of law and the rules of order and other protocols established for the council meetings how can anything productive ever get done?

It's time for you to both stop wasting everyone's time and clean up your acts thank you

Thank You Becky quick comment, please I just wanted I wanted to thank Becky for that constructive criticism. I will take it to heart and I Will hope to do better in the future So feel free to come back anytime and give me an analysis of how I'm doing. Thank you

We have one more raised hand on zoom Renee Renee you have the floor

Hello everybody You know, I looked up some terms and I think they're really appropriate for what we're hearing lately right now. Derogatory comments or opinions are statements that express a negative or disparaging view They typically involve disrespectful, offensive or demeaning language or attitudes. Derogatory comments can be based on facts such as race, ethnicity, gender, religion, sexual orientation or other characteristics.

But derogatory comments are often intended to belittle, insult or demean individuals and they can have a harmful impact. On other people's reputation or sense of belonging, such comments contribute to a toxic and disrespectful environment. Perpetuate stereotypes and can promote discrimination or prejudice. It's important to foster a culture of respect and understanding Where individuals are treated with dignity and equality. I would hope that our city council members are engaging in such kinds of respectful and understanding conversations, and social discourse.

Engaging in thoughtful and constructive dialogue, avoiding derogatory comments or opinions and promoting empathy and acceptance are key to maintaining a positive and inclusive society. Thank you

very much. Thank you, Renee. That's it was

that Tommy?

Okay, thank you very much. We will move on to the consent calendar Is there we have actually three public no two public comments on this one, so we'll take those first First we have Larry Steingold on 1b and then William Wyrick on 1h And you're gonna I have a yeah, when

do I tell you that? Yeah, I'm gonna pull Certainly want to pull B. Okay, and I want to pull D okay, and

also pull H H okay Alright, so we'll first have Larry Steingold on B which is the warrants Thank You Larry

We have a legal bill of $47,000 and change. That's a run rate of about $560,000 which is about $200,000 more than the budget. What isn't going to get done? We already know it's stuffed. We're already going to be light on the budget, so if we can get ... Know now what's not going to be paved? What is going to be deferred? Because these legal bills are not going to go away and they're going to keep getting higher.