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iHow this transcript is madeUnGovr transcribes the official recording with automated speech-to-text, separates speakers by voice, and matches voices to the seated roster. Names and attributions are AI estimates and may contain errors.Verify any quote yourself: click anywhere in the transcript and the official video jumps to that exact moment, so you can check any quote against the recording.Scheduled start 6:00 PM · clock-time estimates pending review
0:00 – 0:093 turns
Good evening. Call the order, we have a quorum. Could we have the roll call please Weston?
Roll call — called by Weston Montgomery
Show transcript
Thank You Weston and welcome everyone to the June 27th 2023 meeting of the Ojai City Council Weston will you please do the pledge for us yes mayor thank you
Agenda Discussionitems moved / continued / pulled — click to expand
Approval of the agenda? Motion to approve? I'll move to approve. Is there a second? Second. All in favor? Aye. OK. All right, well we will move on to presentation. We have the presentation of the proclamation honoring outgoing Parks and Rec Commissioner of eight years Ryan M Firestone. Thank you for being here. Louise?
Thank you Mayor. Good evening Mayor, Council Members, Mr. City Manager, Mr. City Attorney, Chief Newman, Ms. Greer, Interim Deputy City Clerk. Thank you for the opportunity to be here today. For those in the audience who may not know who I am my name is Luis Gomez and I'm the Recreation Manager here for the city of Ojai. I would like to begin by expressing my gratitude for the continued support of the department from the city, our residents and our visitors. It's an honor to serve our community in this capacity and one we take with great pride at the department.
We are proud of our parks, recreation offerings and facilities as they provide safe open spaces for residents to enjoy and recreate with their family and friends. Part of the reason why we have such great parks and recreation programs and facilities is through valuable input from our Parks and Recreation Commission. And it is input from commissioners such as Commissioner Firestone that have helped shape and develop our recreation offerings.
In recent months, I've had the opportunity to work with Mr. Firestone as staff liaison to the Parks and Recreation Commission, as well as staff support to the Ad Hoc Committee on Pickleball. While working with Mr. Firestone in this capacity, I've really been taken back by his professional demeanor. And in his work he is diligent, thorough and most importantly equitable in his thought process and input.
Mr. Firestone on behalf of the Department Commission, it has been a privilege working with you during this time Your contributions have really helped preserve our parks special character and we thank you for your service I can speak I know I can speak for a lot of us when I say you will be missed and at same time We're excited for you in your new endeavors overseas. So thank you. Thank you For those that may be interested in programs and offerings made available through the Recreation Department We invite you to come visit us over at the Alternatively, you can also visit the website to explore the variety of enrichment programs and offerings that we have available to our community.
We always work to develop our recreation offerings and welcome the community's feedback on any programs that they'd like to go ahead and see run through the department itself there. With that I would like to turn it over to Mr. Firestone who would like to share some words as well.
First of all, thank you, Luis. That was very kind. Still after all these years still nervous coming up here. Well, thank you Mayor Sticks and the rest of the council and former council members. It's been an honor and a pleasure to serve Ojai on the Parks and Recreation Commission for the past eight years. I was relatively new to Ojai when I joined the commission I started right when we were getting started on the Libbey Park Playground project.
And my son was a baby at the time, so... It's been a great way to get to know Ojai and be integrated in the community. I appreciate the interest and the attention that the council and the community have given to our parks and our recreation department. And I'd also like to recognize Luis, our staff liaison who makes a lot of that come together and happen. Finally I encourage all of you to digest and act on our commission's pickleball recommendations.
With that we'll have our Mayor read a proclamation for Ryan.
Thank you and I would just like to thank you, Ryan, for your dedication. Eight years is a lot of service, a lot of binders to read and I've always appreciated your calm and compassionate demeanor and your thoughtfulness and your critical thinking skills so we're gonna miss you. You're exactly what we need on our commissions The city is grateful and nice that you guys grew up and got to use the park, right?
Lucky. Okay proclamation whereas we are here today to express our gratitude and appreciation to Ryan Firestone for his dedicated service to the City of Ojai and the Ojai community while serving on the city's Parks and Recreation Commission And whereas the Parks and Recreation Commission advises the City Council on all matters related to parks and recreation, including parks, playgrounds, recreation facilities, programs, community sports, and other recreational activities.
And whereas, Mr. Firestone was first appointed to the Parks and Recreation Commission on April 28th 2015 and during this tenure served in various capacities including commission chair, commissioner, an ad hoc committee member all in addition to volunteering his time to serve as a coach for the 5v5 youth soccer program. Wow that's a lot! Whereas, Mr. Firestone has played a vital role to the Parks and Recreation Commission in providing valuable and equitable input on various parks and recreation projects to better benefit the city's recreation resources such as the Libbey Park playground renovation project, the Sarasota master plan, the skate park lighting project, and most recently serving on the pickleball ad hoc committee.
And whereas, parks and recreation are important in establishing and maintaining the quality of life in our community while ensuring the health of all Ojai residents. And, whereas the City of Ojai recognizes the benefits derived from Parks and Recreation resources in addition to the contributions made by Mr. Firestone as Commissioner. Now therefore be it proclaimed that I, Betsy Sticks, Mayor of the City of Ojai and on behalf of the Ojai City Council do hereby commend Ryan M. Firestone on an outstanding tenure with the City of Ojai's Parks and Recreation Commission, and wish him many years of happiness good health and prosperity.
We'll ask those in the crowd and those watching to give us a brief moment for a photo opportunity
What about the kids and the mother?
Let's get one with just Mr. Farson, then we'll get the whole family. Thank you very much. One, two, three... One, two, three...
Thank you, thank you all for being here too. Congratulations! All right we will move on to
commission reports. We have an Arts Grants Commissioner Freeman is going to talk about arts grants.
0:09 – 0:147 turns
Good evening, I'm Valerie Freeman Arts Commissioner and thank you City Council for all you do. I'm so excited to announce that the arts grants application is now available online to download Ojai Arts Commission is accepting applications for 2024 arts grants awarded each year by the Ojai City Council in December to help ensure the vitality of the arts in the Ojai Valley.
The program funds nonprofit arts organizations and individual artists whose primary purpose is to produce or present arts and cultural programs in the city of Ojai. The art grants are made for one year, The goals of the Arts Grants Programs aims to foster artistic excellence, develop new audiences for the arts, promote cultural diversity and encourage artistic activities, community partnerships and collaboration.
Priority consideration will be given to applicants with emphasis on the Ojai Arts Commission core values. Innovation, inclusivity, impact, educational, mentorship, heritage and the environment. Funding will be capped at $5,000 per applicant and micro grants of $2,500 or less are encouraged. The application deadline is September 22nd of this year by 4 p.m., and you may mail or hand deliver the application and materials here to City Hall.
For more information, please email artgrant at ohi.gov.ca. And to download the application, you go to the city's website, and it's right there. You can't miss it. And I would like to thank fellow art commissioners and city staff for bringing the updated arts grants application to be available online. Thank you.
Thank you, Valerie much appreciated. All right, we will move on to public communication. So just a reminder to the public these are items not on the agenda and because they're not on the agenda we cannot discuss them. We appreciate your viewpoint and your participation and we can agendize those for the future. And at the end of your three minutes you'll hear a chime as a reminder that your time is up so please respect each other's time in the spirit of equity stop talking when the chime sounds.
So we'll begin with Bennett, Collette and Asher. Then we have Wayne Maynard and then we have Renee Roth.
My name is Bennett, and I live off Ojai Avenue. And fast cars come down my street all of the time. I ask for cars go slower on neighborhood streets so kids can be safe. Maybe a new speed limit or speed bumps. Thank you.
Hi, my name is Colette and I live off Ojai Avenue. And people drive really fast down my street and I think you should change the speed limit to 15. Ow! Why? Oh, sorry. Thank
you. Thank you Bennett, Colette and Asher. Much appreciated.
Can we have a question from a council member? Thank you. I don't want to let this opportunity go by. What you've brought up is one of the single most important issues for this city, what you've brought up about the speed limit. I would like to see a city-wide 25 miles per hour speed limit and lower on narrow streets. Passed time to do that by speaking out. You're probably going to save the life of Someone's life by speaking out it's so important, but you said that you lived off Ojai Avenue Can I know the name of your street that you live in on?
Fulton Street What? Fulton. Do you live on South or North Fulton? Maybe your dad can tell us. North Fulton. Okay, we're going to remember that street. We're going to look at it. Thank you.
Thank you for being here. Much appreciated. Wayne Maynard and then Renee Roth.
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Good evening, Council. My name is Wayne Maynard, a resident of Ojai and I emailed you a document earlier today. You probably didn't have a chance to look at it but I'm just going to read the first few paragraphs of that so hopefully you can look at it later after the meeting. But I have strong belief that the public business needs to be done in an open and transparent manner And I see the purpose of our city commissions is to utilize the commissioner's experiences while engaging with the community to conduct public business on behalf of the city. This is best accomplished by a commission acting as a whole, where all commissioners have input on all commissioned business and that business is conducted in public view.
There's no doubt that all our city commissioners are dedicated volunteers looking out for the best interests of this city. However, I'm concerned that the Arts Commission has organized themselves in a manner that rather than acting as a whole, the commission chair has assigned each commissioner an area of responsibility that reports directly back to the chair.
Like a wheel with the chair as the center hub, the commissioner is a spoke and responsible for individual assignments. Under this organization, the Arts Commission business is no longer open and subject to public input, review, scrutiny and very susceptible to Brown Act violations. There are two recent examples that demonstrate how this process has been working.
The current budget request and a five-year plan. According to the commission's March 16th meeting minutes each of these topics were to be set as future agenda items. That never occurred. The commission without a public meeting, commission vote or public input produced a budget request that went to the city budget process and a multiple page five-year plan that was presented by the chair as a handout to City Council. The five year plan is still not easily accessible by the public.
I suspect each commissioner submitted a budget request and a five year plan proposal for their assigned areas of responsibility to the chair, who then combine the information into a commission report. That process may be convenient, streamlined and efficient perhaps but the decisions and recommendations have been made without public input or commissioned public discussion and perhaps are Brown Act violations as well.
A look at the most recent agenda from June 15th demonstrates how the Arts Commission limits public input and keeps each commissioner within their lanes of responsibility. All business is covered by commissioner updates rather than discussion items. This process allows the chair to limit discussion between commissioners because it's a report, not discussion.
The public has no opportunity to comment on business of the commission except for the public comments at the beginning of the meeting before any reports are given. Not a very open or transparent way of conducting business. And I'm out of time, but I have a recommendation that's in the email I sent you on how I think you can make revisions to solve that.
Thank you Wayne. Renee Roth?
Good evening City Council members and James wherever you are. I want to thank our Ryan Firestone as a member for eight years of the Park and Rec Committee and his recommendations in working on a plan for the Pickleball People. Thank you, thank you very much. I think that has been a big contentious issue in our community, and I would like to see some action taken on that project.
I'm also wanting to rethink a little bit, and I don't know if it was considered about Matilija. And I know the Pickleball people aren't going to support this, but that's OK. We all need to speak what we believe is good for our community. Using Matiloha Junior High, which is going to be vacant all summer long and for how many years into the future? We have no idea what those great tennis courts are going to be used for. That's an underutilized resource. Who and how can members of our community work with the school district? Wouldn't it be great to see us working together on something like this?
I also want to thank our citizen advocates for slowing down our speed limits in our town. I cannot underestimate how important this is that you came here today and spoke up about this. I personally know of four people in our community who have died while crossing the streets or as a result of crossing the streets in our town, I was recently at a brainstorming session where they brought up the city of Port Townsend, Washington. Port Townsend, Washington is a very small town, six square miles.
They changed city-wide the speed limit to 25 miles per hour, city wide on all city streets. And by the sound of things it's made a huge impact On the safety, the ride ability, the walkability of their town. I would love to see us do something bold and brave to do something for our community members and I can't think of anything better than to slow everybody down. And James, I want to say thank you.
I don't know if I'm going to have a chance to say goodbye. With a heavy heart, I'm saying goodbye. I'm really sorry to see you go. You have done an amazing job for our city. Our streets are much safer over off of Maricopa Highway across from Nordoff High School. I still have issues but you have done an amazing job for our city and I want to thank you and be the first to thank you and wish you well in Port Wainimi. Thank you, Renee.
Any comments online Weston?
No raised hands Mayor.
Okay wonderful all right we will move on to the consent calendar is there a motion to approve? I'll move to approve okay in a second
I'll second
okay all in favor All right, let's move on to the public hearing and this is item number two the fiscal year 23 24 so that's July 1st 2023 to June 30th 2024 budget adoption and salary schedule approval And thank you so much to Pam Greer our finance director and city manager James Vega for working So hard on this and you did it. They said it couldn't be done, but you did it Thank You
Thank you, Mayor. And we have a short presentation. I know we've had a few workshops so we aren't going to belabor it again. I think one of our first workshops was over an hour of us talking, so we're going to try to avoid that this meeting. So we'll pull up our PowerPoints here and I'll start just by noting yes, I am appearing virtually. California Joint Powers Insurance Authority Academy today. And at one point thought I could get out at five and drive back to Ojai for the meeting, and realized that wasn't going to work out driving from San Diego. So thanks for allowing me to participate virtually.
If at any time you can't hear me or anything, please let me know because I'm operating a little differently here. So James, can you pull up the presentation? Again we'll try to keep this brief here. Let's see... James are you going to show the...
Yeah I'm trying to get it to the beginning.
0:23 – 0:278 turns
Yes James it's up on the screen in council chambers.
Okay. All right, it's not showing as a slideshow but all right let's go ahead and show it. James can you go to the second slide? James? Second slide is up. My screen is showing slide three
Yes. They're kind of numbers. Is it the one with
a budget summary general fund?
Yes.
Yeah, okay so are you guys able to see it just not me I guess.
Now it's correct yeah that's good James.
Okay there we go okay All right, so somehow I'm not the one having technical difficulty which surprises me. I thought I would be the one struggling. Okay we'll just make it work. It's not quite working but... So this year for our budget we've gone through this several times so nothing should be very surprising. The last time we presented it there was a It was sort of the first round of review. And I think the summary that you're going to see in the next couple slides is that revenues recovered after COVID, which was good news but they've been flat since and as we all know just like our home budgets costs keep going up expenses keep going up everything gets more expensive so it's good that we've recovered but every year that our revenue stay flat and their costs go up It means more and more of a squeeze on our budget.
So this year, on the first round of the budget review we came to Council and we showed basically a $200,000 deficit. And we noted some areas where we could make some reductions that wouldn't impact our services to get to a balanced budget and we've gone back after that discussion with council and we've made those changes. So, we are presenting a balanced $14.9 million dollar budget 14.9 million in revenues and 14. 9 million in expenditures As you can see, the chart shows sort of the trend that during COVID our revenues had dropped significantly down to about the $10 million range. They recovered right after COVID to 14.8 million but they've Actually kind of flatlined there. I think one of the challenges we've talked about, just being realistic about Ojai is that we don't have unlimited capacity in Ojai.
So other than the roadblock opening up potentially at the end of this budget year, there's not more capacity opening up to really cause revenues to increase. So I think that our revenues will be fairly flat moving forward with just probably a bump when the Roblar opens up. And so what that means is it's good news in a way because our budget's recovered and it's fairly strong, but the challenge is we have to now figure out how to keep our costs within those revenues because the revenues probably aren't going to go up in coming years or not significantly.
The other just a couple of key points, the general fund. This is the general fund budget. The general fund is the fund that's used to fund our core administrative and operational tasks. The two biggest costs that the city has in any given year are staffing costs and our police contract. So providing the staff to do our public works projects, to staff our community development department and then like I said the police contract between those two chunks that's about 2 thirds of our budget about $10 million so we have the money to do the basic things we need. We just have to be careful and disciplined to stay within our budget The last bullet point on this slide shows Measure C. Measure C is not in the general fund, so it's a $3 million restricted fund outside of the general fund but that is the hotel tax increase that is going to allow us to do our paving and our environmental projects.
So again, that was adopted in 2020 We've gotten through COVID, we're seeing the impact it has and we'll talk about the streets a little later in this presentation to show what impact it will have in the future years. Next slide James.
0:28 – 0:492 turns
Okay.
Are you, are you able to hear me? Everything went blank on my screen for a minute there. Yes we are good. Okay okay so the next slide shows the tax revenue trends again just kind of reiterating what I said earlier and this trend i thought was helpful in showing uh tax revenues make up most of our revenues particularly the hotel tax Ojai is kind of unique in that way there's I think we're the only city in the county where hotel tax makes up a majority of our revenue.
And this chart shows that, a couple key points one is it shows that recovery after COVID and the spike but then if you look from 21 to 24 every revenue is just a flat line And so we recovered coming out of COVID, but there's not unlimited growth potential. And so for us it just like I said the reminder that you know I think for a while we thought well our revenues are going up so fast they're just gonna keep going up and the reality is they've gone up and we're at capacity and these are the cities likely about the revenue level moving forward Things like property tax don't change very quick and sales tax and hotel tax are more volatile, but I think they're about maxed out. And the thing that we have to be careful of is more likely a recession where they would drop rather than expecting an increase.
So all just kind of general principles for us to keep in mind and why we budget conservatively Careful and built up our reserve fund in Ojai because of that situation. Can you move to the fourth slide, James? So we wanted to show some of the major expenses when people look at our budget and say, well where does $15 million go? Like how did we spend all that money. And so we wanted to walk through some of the basic expenses of what's paid for in the general fund.
Major expenses include our staffing which are budgeted at $5.8 million this year. Police services budgeted at 3.4 million dollars Utilities are a couple hundred thousand dollars. And then one thing we've focused on increasing year over year over years, our maintenance budgets. I think when I arrived in Ojai, we pretty frequently used to talk about fixing things like the slides at the park and we'd say there wasn't money to do it. And so we've really put an emphasis in trying to make sure we have the money to maintain our streets, our facilities and our parks And so those are increased in our budget to about a half million dollars this year, up from $280,000 a couple of years ago.
And then just a side note that doesn't include the paving project which is actually paid for from other funds and so this is additional maintenance on top of street paving and then there's transfers to our capital improvement projects equipment and vehicle replacement funds And at $775,000 and recreation programming is about $187,000. So just these expenses alone total about $10.9 million more than two thirds of our general fund budget.
And so you can see very quickly how... You start with a pot of about $15 million and with just these core services, a lot of that funding is taken up And the next slide shows a couple of other costs. One thing we talked about earlier, and I appreciate Council Member Ruhl's comments because yeah the point I was trying to make was not being critical of the HPC's requests it is just trying to remind everybody that every time an item comes on that we have not planned for there's only one pot of money right now that those things can come from And that's the contingencies budget. This year it's included in the budget at $400,000 and last year we had the highest ever contingency budget at $550,000 partially because we knew that there were some litigation issues and things like that coming up that we weren't sure about so we didn't have them as separate line items in the budget But we ended up using up almost all of that budget.
And so next year, we will have a lower budget for that category and we will have to be careful not to overspend. I think that HPC item was a pretty good example. Of whenever we get a request and we've gotten several in the last couple months. We got a request for funding from a community group, for example. And on its own they all look great and they all look like great things and they're all they all have benefits to the community.
And so you want to support them all but the reality is we have a limited pot of money. And so we have to every time one of those comes in, And we're trying to figure out which one is the true request with the other requests and which ones are the true priorities. And so that was the point I was trying to make with the HPC item, and it's just something that will have to... Well, we should be going through that exercise whenever a request comes in.
But in this year's budget there is a contingency budget of $400,000. And there are some items coming up The other item, other notable items in the budget, the attorney services budget. We have under-budgeted that over the last couple years and with some of those same laws still pending we increased the budget just to match the real costs so that we're not constantly overspending our budget and so that's been increased from $296,000 to $398,000 in this budget We've also included the Ojai Museum's funding in the budget, $60,000. The Arts Commission funding in the budget, $46,300. And as one note on that, Commissioner Freeman's comments about the Arts Commission budget So by approving the budget tonight, the funding is available. But if the council has concerns about a particular item those we could note those and we could not actually spend that funding yet so I've heard and saw some of the comments with some concerns about that request and so we don't have to necessarily solve that tonight And then last, the community funding which is always a hot topic around the budget.
We've received several requests we have some other costs that we are sort of finding about or that we're getting ready to prepare and bring to the council so it's not funded as a separate line item but it's proposed to be included as part of the contingency budget What we anticipate is bringing an item back to council that would have sort of all the things we expect to have to pay for from the contingency budget, along with the community funding requests. And then the council would decide which ones to prioritize this year and which ones not to. And so in the budget it's not a separate, it's not funded as a separate line item but it's proposed to be included in the contingencies budget.
Next slide James. And so we went through this when we went through the presentation. We wanted to explain a little bit about after that first $11 million that goes to just paying for our police costs and our staff costs, and keeping the lights on literally paying utilities and things like that. You know how does the city budget? What priorities are helping guide the budget development?
I wanted to just kind of reiterate them because it answers, I think a lot of the questions when somebody says why did you fund this but not this? We started with these priorities and the first priority was catching up on deferred maintenance. Um, the we started this last year and we prioritize it again this year. Uh there were so many items that were deferred because that's the easy way to solve a budget crunch whenever there is a downturn in the economy you say we won't cut our trees this year. We won't maintain our parks to the level we used to maintain them will cancel sidewalk maintenance will cancel these things and so those always Historically in Ojai because there wasn't extra funding, those things were always deferred. There was always a reason not to get to them.
We've tried to turn that around and as a matter of fact I'm at the California Joint Powers Insurance Authority Academy and we were talking today about the fact that when you defer maintenance It means that the repairs eventually cost more because instead of maintaining things, you just have to replace things. And we've talked about that with the council but they also at this academy brought up another point that even though we knew it, we just haven't thought about as much lately. But the point that when maintenance gets deferred Accidents happen and people get hurt, and people damage their cars on potholes or people have tree branches fall onto their property. And then that leads to claims which costs more money than the maintenance would have cost.
And at the end of that, the city ends up paying out claims and the problem still isn't fixed. So there's a lot of reasons why we should not defer the maintenance. I think it's sort of the easy thing to always just get into that habit but we're trying really hard to reverse that habit. And one of the key ones is our paving. We have $3 million paving projects launching now, we're actually Planning right now that the actual paving will start immediately after the 4th of July, essentially July 5th.
Not immediately after the parade but on July 5th and so we'd start paving then on a $3 million project and this budget also includes starting the next round of paving in this fiscal year which we expect to be about another $2 million And I've said this before, but because we've deferred over the years, we're about $15 million behind in paving. And, um. The city had a 10 year plan to pave where at the end of the plan we had worse quality streets than we did at the start of it.
And that's the cycle that we're just finishing and so what we're working on right now and public works and I are planning A five year plan where at the end of the plan, we actually have higher quality streets. And in fact, uh, we're working with the analysts right now on it, but it looks like if we fund it the level that it's proposed in this budget that by the end of five years, we potentially would have the highest quality streets in the county And I would guess we're amongst the lowest at this point. There's a paving score, we're in the 50s right now close to falling under 50 with the five-year plan we're going to propose the council we'd be in the 80s on this pavement score out of 100 so So but again, it's just important to prioritize because when we want to do something else and we want to cut something from the streets, you typically don't have anybody speaking for the streets compared to maybe other organizations and things.
But it is something that if you don't do it, it impacts everybody in the community and leads to claims and things that then end up taking your budget and you end up spending more money in the long run. And so catching up on deferred maintenance was one of the top priorities that we focused on. Every maintenance related fund, we tried to increase to have better maintenance of all our facilities and I think people are seeing that in the real world too now. We just replaced some of the slides at the park that I think in the past would have had to have lasted a few more years and so next slide please James The three other big priorities we focused on was continuing to pay down, but more aggressively paying down our unfunded pension and OPEB liability.
So we just talked about that the city probably has about $15 million in deferred maintenance on streets, probably more than $15 million in deferred maintenance on streets. But we also have $10 million in unfunded pension and benefits liability. That impacts the city in a couple ways, we pay a large half a million dollars towards an unfunded pension liability this year and each year. And we pay another $400,000 towards the unfunding retiree medical liability. In our budget, and so almost a million dollars a year. And that's just to stay even. And so what we proposed in the budget for the second year in a row was pre-paying those two categories so that over time it's essentially like a mortgage is if you prepay it over time, you're paying less than the long run.
You're paying less quote unquote interest And so we focused on that in the budget. And so between streets and pension liability, that's about 25. That's the city's outstanding liability and it's about $25 million. So we've always said we're fortunate that we don't have loans and things like that here in Ojai but we do have Um, and then we're going to look at things that have been deferred that we need to start catching up on. And so those are two of the big priorities.
Uh, third was staffing. So the staffing costs, um, or we were proposing investing in staff. We talked about this previously, but one of the key things was realizing our public works crew members were getting paid less in the city than they are in the agencies that, uh, Sanitary district, et cetera. And so we proposed increasing their salaries to be competitive so that we can keep our maintenance team which is again it's part of that everything working together having more money to do maintenance and having good people with experience to be able to then do that.
So we have that and then we had a couple of key positions such as adding an associate planner position So that we have institutional knowledge in the planning department, which has been the hardest department to keep institutional knowledge over the years. So staffing was another priority and then fourth building reserves, which we have made a priority in the last couple of years and we did a really good job of it Council should be congratulated. We met the reserve goal for the first time ever, the City had a reserve goal for 20 years that it never meant and never really had a plan to meet.
But we've now done it and that was done by making hard decisions and tightening our belts And so we've done the hard work. But I think with the potential recession looming and some of these cost pressures and things, we're proposing in this year's budget to keep trying to build reserves. And the way that shows up in the budget is the cannabis transfer tax, the $270,000, or I'm sorry, the cannabis tax revenue, the 270 thousand dollars that we were expecting. We show that going immediately to the reserve to try to keep building the reserve.
And so that's also included in the budget for this year. Next slide, please James and so we've gone through the budget, the general fund budget pretty heavy. The CIP we had scheduled but we didn't really get to go through it but I'm going to try to make it very simple. But essentially we have a couple of slides here and one is talking about the projects that we did this year And those include things like the solar panel and micro grid installation at City Hall, the Kent Hall refurbishment and reopening for community meetings. The Pergola and City Hall trellis repairs, the start of electrifying, electrification of the city facilities, the paving program getting restarted. And as I mentioned starting probably next week is what we're expecting.
And then the ATP project continuing and other key recreation facility repairs. And so this year we, next slide please James. We were able to start doing more Measure C is allowing us to have funding to do some of these things. So we started to show these things And then some of them take some time to get started. The paving, for example had to be bid out and so that is starting next week but we are being very aggressive trying to catch up on all those items that we've been trying to get done. Next slide please James And so for next year, we're being even more aggressive. We actually are planning for a $7 million capital improvement project program for next year.
The big chunk of that though is the ATP which is estimated at about 3.4 million dollars um for uh in the budget and then paving is two million dollars so those two are the biggest highest priorities about 5.4 million of the seven million dollars but we are trying to also include money funding for emission reduction projects climate mitigation projects wildfire mitigation Parks, facilities, parking lot repaves and stormwater drainage projects. And so we are trying to make sure we're hitting all the priorities that the council's established over the years and with a fairly aggressive program of $7 million.
I said this previously but in the budget before Measure C, we would be fortunate if we had a million dollars to do projects And so with Measure C and especially now since it's built up for a couple of years, we actually have money to do some really significant projects. And we can actually afford to do those things. And then the last slide will show the projects that we have planned for this year. As I mentioned, paving $2 million ATP 3.2 million those are the two big ones but there's some others the Sarasota Park playground and equipment. We have 240,000 budgeted to start that project 745,000 to what is categorized as emission reduction but the biggest chunk is starting to convert to an electric trolley It's more of our, maybe should have been categorized as our climate related projects.
And then we have $125,000 in repairs. We've continued to make repairs to Kent Hall and that space and then the other buildings at the city hall campus. $200,000 budgeted towards painting and fixing the roof at the arcade which is a big project And then we have a lot of little miscellaneous projects that total about another $500,000. So all in $7.38 million capital improvement project budget and we're able to afford that thanks to the measure C and a couple of grants that we've gotten.
And so essentially it's an aggressive CIP plan where we start to catch up on some of those items that had been deferred like paving And so with that, we recommend that the council hold the public hearing, complete the budget review and adopt the budget in the salary schedule which implements the items that we've just discussed.
0:49 – 0:5812 turns
Thank you James much appreciated great progress it's really good to see questions from Council?
Yeah okay Is it is so are there any do you foresee any expenses when we finally work out having responsibility for Soule Park? It was that mentioned somewhere.
So there's a couple of things. We have the funding for the agreement built into the budget, noting that the agreement is still being reviewed by the Parks and Rec Commission and we still aren't sure what the Parks and Rec Commission is going to recommend on that. So we had funding for the agreement built in. The second thing was, we took the capital improvement projects to the Parks and Rec Commission and we asked them with the amount of funding that we have available what's the priority to you?
And so they did a really good job of working through their CIP for the next five years of what projects they think we should do each year. And they did put in funding to potentially build pickleball courts, but a couple years down the line I think in years three and four of their CIP, they had in years one and two it was Sir Zody Park and the Libbey Park bathrooms, I think where there are two top priorities And so there's funding in a couple different ways in the budget for potential pickleball projects. OK,
I have another. So as you're caught, I think I just heard you say something about the pickleball courts three and four years down the road. But I've been told that the tennis group is very willing to do fundraising. If a private group wants to take that on They can speed up that process, correct?
Correct. And I think too depending on what the proposal is like these are to potentially build new pickleball courts in Sewell Park and so the Parks and Rec Committee put it in the plan so that if we get to that point and that's what's desired we have money to do it I don't know, did I say the Parks and Rec Commission? I meant to say the Parks and Rec Commission put it in the plan.
But there's you know if other options arise then those can be discussed at that time but right now that is what's proposed or what's included in their proposed capital improvement project
budget. My other question if I may would be related What's the right word? Supportive services, supportive housing for the ever-growing community of homeless people behind City Hall. So if Council decides that we need to do something more like better restrooms, showers whatever or ideally a housing project where would that money come from in this budget or who would have to come out of the reserves?
There's essentially three options and one can be done within the budget proposed in front of you, which is it can be weighed against the other requests on the contingency fund budget. And if it's the priority then the council agrees and that's what that funding could potentially be used for. I know there's a lot of people lining up for that funding so that's not gonna be an easy conversation But it could be there. The other thing with the budget is, the budget is our plan for the next year but there's always...
Things never go according to plan and so we quite frequently bring an item where like let's say for example, we had planned to do something else and like pave the parking lots and then we decide or you know, for whatever reason, it's not looking like it's gonna happen We could always potentially discuss a budget adjustment that the council would have to approve then where we'd come back and say okay so we have this you know $100,000 this year. So you know it you know and there could be in a budget adjustment um and then third like you said is you can take it from reserves Almost by default, I always have to recommend against that because I still don't think we have enough money if there isn't a recession that we can.
We are not comfortable yet. We're better, but we're not comfortable yet. So that's sort of the easy answer in a way, but it's the easy answer until we're in trouble and then it's not easy at all. But those are sort of three paths. By approving the budget today you aren't necessarily saying we aren't, like there's no one thing you're saying we're not going to do this year. It's this is our plan for this year and if something else comes up as a priority we would look at how we could adjust the plan and that would come back to council.
Thank you I'm gonna follow up on a question with that James so the priority just to confirm tonight is to approve it because we are in deadline correct?
Yeah, so there's a June 30th deadline for cities. The last couple years we had gotten ahead of it and adopted on June 13 or like the meeting before this year timing was a challenge we had a couple hearings get continued so we're essentially at the deadline now We either have to adopt it or we'd have to adopt what's called a continuing budget, which is just last year's budget as a holdover. And last year's budget was more restrictive than this year's budget. So if we don't adopt one, we essentially would not be able to do some of the things that we were trying to include in this budget. And then again, just to put everybody at ease because I know we planned to have more hearings and they got continued so I know there's probably more discussion due But by this being adopted, we are not planning to rush out tomorrow and spend all the money.
And in fact, we can't, we wouldn't have the staffing to spend all the money immediately. So the budget can be adopted over the next couple of months could still be adjusted if there's key priorities that council wants to discuss.
Great, okay. And my other question is in terms of the contingency fund is basically a rainy day fund. Can you give just a couple examples of what that fund has? Now it's $399,000 because we just gave away 1,000. What are some examples of projects that have been used for?
Yeah I think last year for example we had earmarked $100,000 for our Soule Park partnership Um and so when we had negotiated with that contract with the county, originally it was negotiated with a hundred thousand dollar payment. Something you know around that amount and so the council pretty early on said okay that's going to be $100,000 of that $500,000 last year. So there was a big chunk um as I mentioned before in We actually maybe helped with this this year, but the city attorney or not city attorneys all attorneys costs including you know potentially contracting out projects. Those went over budget last year and so we when we approved them we asked the council to approve paying for those from the contingency and so that took up a chunk of it last year.
This year we tried to increase the attorney's budget so we're not taking up as much of the contingency from that, but that's still a possibility if you know and that's it's important for us to realize because is the council's deciding whether to take on litigation But also as a reminder, anybody can sue us at any point for any reason or no reason whatsoever. And so you almost by default should expect to have some attorney's costs and so we've tried to build some of those into the budget but I think based on last year that would probably be some of the funding too.
Good. We do live in California after all. Any other questions from council? Okay, so we'll go ahead and open the public hearing and move on to public comment. First we have Wayne Maynard then we have Bill Miley and then Renee Roth.
0:58 – 1:056 turns
Thank you much Council. Wayne Maynard and I'm here as a representative of the Ojai Valley Fire Safe Council volunteer board member. The fire safe council wishes to once again thank you for your past support through the community funding budget. It's discouraging that this year's budget does not provide any funding but after hearing the city manager that there may be funds available through some other means if something comes up which is kind of what my request was going to be.
The community service grants that have been awarded to the FireSafe Council in the past last year was instrumental in the FireSafe Council being awarded a grant of over $1 million. To update our Ojai Valley community wildfire protection plan and the city is a product as a partner of that project If you're not able to fund the city community funding budget This year as you proposed then I would hope you'll take into consideration any future requests where again we can leverage City funds Into something that will improve the safety of our community through grants that we can obtain just as a reminder that Measure C did include fire mitigation as one of the descriptions for the projects that it funds, and that's what we do is fire mitigation.
So thank you very much.
Thank you Wayne. Next we have Bill Miley then Renee Roth then Brian Akins.
Hello, Bill Miley. I quickly looked at the many of the 200 pages in the budget. I was looking for a section providing contract monies for needed city resident services based on past City Council discussions. I assume there was none and there was none. To show I actually read some pages, on page 179 under contract services the line item clean up tree maintenance and watering was reduced 50% this year from 15,000 to 7,000.
I assumed it was because we had a very wet winter so I have three requests One, I was recently at the Oxnard Costco and had trouble parking because the parking lot was full. And their sales tax is $9.25. Ours is $7.25 Each cent, I understand, increase will produce close to 2.5 million dollars Two Back to the roadway safety. If we lower our speed limit, it should help keep our streets in better shape longer and reduce paving costs. That would help.
And three. So with hope in my heart, I want to say if there is an increase in revenues this year maybe the council will consider some contract monies for housing loss prevention through Help of Ojai's continuum of care services which they currently provide on a very small budget. Thank you.
Thank you Bill. Next we have Renee Roth then Brian Akins and then Larry Steingold
Good evening, council members and James and our finance director who's going to be holding the bag when James Vega leaves. We're hoping to hear updates from you Pam Greer and see where we might have opportunities to spend or save more money going into the future. So generally, James I'm really glad you finally got this budget over the finish line. I think everybody knows that you need to approve it. Everybody knows you must approve it and I'm really glad you brought up the $25 million in unfunded pension liabilities and deferred maintenance. I think that's a big deal I think the city needs to, in the future, have the budget committee do something to address our unfunded long-term liabilities and follow through with safe reliable sources of funding for our city in the future.
I don't see that we have it yet. I'm concerned about the ATP project for the current budget year. We had 2.1 million dollars budgeted For Maricopa Highway and phase two of the project the Ojai Avenue project was 1.4 6 5 million dollars and those costs have each jumped by a million dollars and So that's what happens, and that's talking to exactly what you were saying. That when we defer and we defer and we defer, we have problems so we can see that those costs have jumped by $2 million total.
We've also, I understand got issues with right-of-way access for the ATP and I'm hoping you're going to leave some good reliable follow up information James. I'm starting to think about what we're gonna do in the vacuum when you're gone because you've been juggling and managing and holding lots and lots of information in terms of, and also vacant positions.
How many vacant positions do we have that need to be filled? Because I know you have managed to come through with ACEs everywhere on our revenue streams and I'm very happy to see it. I think we're in good shape. I just think we need to address these long-term liabilities I think the Budget Committee is a great place to start getting serious and I hope we have some ATP Project follow-up with where we're at going forward in council meetings. So we know we're on time
Thank You Renee next week Brian Aikens then Larry Steingold
1:05 – 1:2220 turns
Thank you for the time you spent with us on the H. P. C.. Today as the mayor said and I and I kind of slapped hands underneath we all got it Thank you, thank you, thank you. And again just to remind you that Kathy Smith and I are generation long time friends we exchanged hugs on the going out the door and committed that we're gonna work this and solve this together Again, keep in mind that my wife actually did the sketch on her mother for the memorial that's there in Little League. So thank you all. Now Museum hat on, thank you, thank you, thank you for your support again of the museum. We work very hard to justify that and justify your trust in us. Just some updates.
We do have some of our people who are retiring. Hard to believe Jane Wyrick, who's been on the board since 1997. I think she was 18 at the time. Anne Scanlon, Jonathan Katz, Doug Lochner, Jim Richmond. The later three have suggested that we might look at an advisory council. I'm all for keeping good ideas available to us. New commissioners that we have coming on Kevin Davis when we were talking with Kevin Davis And I asked we asked him Jim and I what he commissioned. He wanted to be on he said strategic planning and development We said you're in Christopher Noxon Very popular very nice person in our community looking to become very involved Has a young approach has a inventive approach and so we're gonna use that Somebody you may know we finally got her to come back.
That's Julie Tumamaite Stensley At the beginning of the conversation she was at the end of the conversation she was sure why not and William Weirich, you might know him he is continuing the Weirich family presence that has been around since 1997 and so he will be another one of our commissioners again, we are Enriching our Keeping talent we have and then enriching us in these people that are coming in. And so again, we thank you all for your support and It's important to have the museum there because it retains that presence of our community In each of the different phases that we go through Thank You.
Thank you Brian Next we have Larry Steingold
Good evening, Larry Steingold. One side note I met John Boesemel twice over the past six years. Nice to meet you. Anyway, I just... Oh, John
Brazenly.
Yes, Brazenley, sorry. Regarding 25 mile speed limit on the roads, I know the budget, why don't you just make the proposal so that you can get it on the agenda? Regarding everything, you can either raise taxes and pay the bills so we have plenty of money or we don't raise the taxes. You roll the dice and we see what happens because the ATP... James are you listening?
Maybe not. Sorry to see you go. $3.5 million, how much money have we spent out of pocket above and beyond the bonds regarding offices and salaries and all this other nonsense? Five million already? Six million? Seven million? How much is deferred maintenance? We know costs are going up on everything. You've already heard Arts Commission, this commission that hey, we want a few dollars here, we got a few dollars there. Where's it all gonna come from? So we're betting on the interest rates We're betting on the economy.
So either we're gonna raise the taxes and get the money from everybody else, because we don't pay much here and that's a great thing. And the forefathers and all your parents and everybody else has done a great job here. Okay? Because I'm one of the biggest NIMBYs there is. Okay? This is great. Okay. And I wanna keep it like this but we either gotta raise the money or cut your expenses because this isn't gonna work.
Alright? You've got all these going on. I mean you've seen We've only got so much money. And you want to have this proposal and that proposal, where are you going to get it from? The roads? Okay. Use the roads as traffic calming devices. I don't care but let's say what it is. Either we're going to live within our means or we're not. Raise the taxes or not. But this is a shot, $15 million, $16 million every year, great. 5% increases? You want to hire more people? You just hired another guy with a grant—or person, sorry—for $56,000 for the police, civilian, to communicate with the police for what? What are you going to be a receptionist?
What are they going to do? That money could have gone into safety. It could have gone into traffic bumps, whatever. But we're living on grants here, and that's fine. I don't want to reach into my pocket. Nobody does. Everybody has done a great job here. Your family, everybody is family. That's wonderful. So let's keep it that way but we either got to raise taxes and I know the mothership right now has got a problem, okay?
The inn and everybody else but that's the way it's going to go or we suffer so it's either going to be the tourists or us. And quite honestly, I'd rather have it be the tourists Thank you
Larry. Weston, any comments online?
No raised hands on Zoom Mayor.
Okay we will go ahead and close the public hearing and we'll move on to discussion. Rachel?
So first of all, I just want to again say you all are amazing. The Budget Committee is amazing. Thank you so much and James thank you for spearheading this effort it's incredible. So I know that we need to approve the budget and I know that we need to move forward with it But I want to address just a couple of things. And I know that we can't talk about them yet because they're not on this agenda, but I would like to, you know, I think there are some opportunities with raising sales tax or I think there are some other revenue generating options that we can discuss and so that's something I would like to have in the back of my mind or the back of our minds as we're talking about this. And then the other thing is With regard to the contingency and the community grant, community funding for You know, I like the way James you suggested that we have agencies, local agencies or not-for-profit organizations.
That their approach to getting funding is different and that would be that if they're offering a service to the city like Help of Ojai or an organization that would come in and want to provide shelter or services for the unhoused that they could apply, submit an RFP and apply with a contract And even the chamber or the peace organization. But one thing that I think could get a little messy with that, because we do have such a limited contingency budget, I think it could get messy with these organizations and people wondering how do I do that? And so one thing I would like for us to talk about in the future is having a process that wouldn't be a granting process, because the funding would be coming out of a different budget line item. But a process that we open RFPs and we close RFPs and we discuss them all at one time to kind of have a better handle on how we're using that contingency funding.
So that's
it. Other comments?
Yeah, I've got a few but I'll wait if somebody's ready to go. So we have been talking about places where we can get tax increases and I think we need to have those come forward. I know we've had a really jammed agenda for the past few months, but sales tax increase, I'm very interested in finding out when was the last time we raised the sales tax? Where are we in comparison to other communities in our county?
We have talked about a transfer fee tax for sales of homes Above a certain amount some form of tax on that and we've talked about a vacancy tax For homes that are not being occupied as a primary residence. Those are all places where we could raise some money They all require going to the voters And so we need to start Thinking about the idea that I think our next opportunity to do that's going to be March of 2024 and we'll have to think about whether a general election is a better time to do that But I think we need to get Looking at that And I am going to agree with something that Mr. Steingold says more than once, which is that we have to look to the county more on things where it is a valley-wide issue We we represent a quarter to a third somewhere in there of the population of the valley and so when we look at something like services for the homeless, we should be looking at a partnership with the county that involves our Quarter to a third share in comparison to their Their share and I think there's a lot of issues where we need to be looking to the county more, at least as Mr.
Steingold says, at least making the request because we do as a city do a lot for The entire valley and we should look at the county participating in that. But I want to like everybody else really thank James for the hard work that he's done on putting our budget together. have talked to Johnny Johnston and James to a certain degree about the future liability issue.
So, the numbers are large because it's projected over time but my understanding and I'd like Any anyone to weigh in on this my understanding. I've been assured that we are We are paying those Potential liabilities down at a very fiscally responsible Rate and that we have actually increased the rate at which we are paying those Liabilities down in the recent past and so I I feel very confident that we're doing the fiscally responsible thing. In fact, I just shared with Pam earlier tonight that one of the first things I did when I got elected was talk to Johnny Johnson about the budget and he assured me that we were in very good hands with James and Pam and that you know that we were Being very responsible in how we're managing those issues, particularly the contingent liabilities or the future liabilities.
May I make a comment?
Well, Council Member Ruhl was next.
May I make a comment about something? Thank you. I agree that we need to involve the county with services for the homeless and our task force did meet with Supervisor Matt LeVere He emphasized that in order because he said there's so much funding. He has assured us There is funding for whatever project we propose but in order to get that money We have to involve city staff and I can't just go through our group We have to sew at the end of the meeting I have a proposal To get so that we can get some of that funding, but I completely agree and that's And while I'm mentioning it, Supervisor Matt LeVere is gonna be in front of Libby Fountain this Friday from 9 to 11 o'clock.
I was gonna mention that at the end of the meeting but make sure the public knows that they can meet with him. Am I breaking a rule? He's glaring at me.
No, that's fine. Sorry. That wasn't
a glare
Any approval of the project is gonna have to come back on our future.
Yes I'll mention the details and more details at the end But I just wanted to respond to what councilmember Whitman said getting counting county funding
Councilmember rule
So I want to sort of agree with the idea, and we've talked about this. I think every meeting for the last four meetings about sales tax, the TOT tax, vacancy tax, all of these taxes. So I think that we need to move that to a priority item. I think we've also talked about moving it to a priority item And I don't know exactly how that happens. I know at the end of this meeting, we can say we have a date certain if we have three votes but I think it's absolutely essential that we move forward with getting these taxes, getting clear on what taxes we would like to propose and moving forward on it because it will require A fair amount of public out, you know outreach and comments and things like that so people have a really clear idea. There's been, you know, a lot of chatter about the ATP and the amount of money that it's going to cost and where are you going to get the funds?
And at this point, we're on a go with the ATP. So we need to figure out I mean it's in this budget and kudos to you James, absolutely but we need to figure that out. And I think taxes are and we keep talking about this so let's really move forward with that make it a priority and also with Matt Levere There is a ton of county money that they get to disperse to all of the municipalities, but we need to knock on their door and say our money.
We are a proportion of the county, we would like that money. So I think we also need a mechanism within City Hall to check in all of the time and make sure that we're getting the funds that are due to us because they're not going to come to us and say here's your, here's your part. You know, we have to knock on their door and say where is our part? And I think we're moving towards that as we have a real need with housing. So that would be another thing. Other than that, I would make a motion that we approve this budget and you know once again James thank you so much. I don't really know how you do it Can I just beg you to stay But that having been said I make a motion that we approve this budget
1:22 – 1:3023 turns
And I
just wanted to add gratitude to Pam and James much appreciated and having worked with James through kovat You are a true miracle worker and it's touch-and-go. Look at us now and It's pretty fast. It's pretty incredible And so I'm just so grateful about the reserves Because that was very clear that we really needed it and to be in this position now is is really wonderful One other tax, I'd like someone mentioned to me other cities are doing this taxing Amazon Put that out there Sure, yeah list and then um And then I agree with my council members. Let's get the county involved because there is a lot of money out there We just need to ask for it and and Heidi Whitman I don't want to put you on the spot when I am a little bit because You did graciously offer to do a workshop for our local nonprofits to find grants and Council approved it so Do you want to do it?
Okay. All right, thank you. So we'll schedule that if you're still up for it. Thank you, I really appreciate that. Okay so-
Just a final, I wanted to thank you for serving on the finance committee and working through this and being so deeply involved. I know that you have been very conscientious and I have turned to you often, not often but on occasion and said how are we financially? And you've always told me how we are financially. So thank you for sticking in with that as well
It definitely brings out the Midwestern in me like save it save safe Okay, so we have a council we have a motion and we have a second we roll call please yes, ma'am
Roll-call vote Passed 5–0 motion and we have a second we roll call
Show transcript
motion passes
Okay, exciting. Thank you. Thank you Pam. Thank You James All right,
we will move on to item number three the city manager recruitment process is there a staff report James
Yes, a very quick one. A lot's changed since we wrote this and I think I've communicated that individually to council members but this is the one chance we have to actually talk about it as a group. When we wrote the item we were sort of trying to figure out what some options and processes could be. I think we've sort of nailed it down and we're recommending a process especially with the tight timeline As the staff report notes, my last day is scheduled to be July 14th which basically leaves this one council meeting to try to get somebody appointed.
And so what I am recommending and this fits into our promise to be more transparent about only having closed sessions when we truly need them and then also being very clear about what those closed sessions are about I'm recommending that we hold a closed session this Thursday to interview interim candidates, but also potentially we're working on the agenda to talk about how we will fill the permanent position.
And we will be transparent about that. We will report out on what's decided, any decision that's made about appointing either an intern or a permanent candidate will have to come to an open session agenda so we'll make sure that it's done very transparently but just for anybody wondering who says well why couldn't this be in public? The reality is if you're making somebody interview for their job in a public meeting The odds are anybody with a brain won't accept the interview.
And I can say that, you know from recent experience myself that if that was the requirement I probably would not or I definitely would not have proceeded recently so to get a good candidate we're going to have to have a closed session interview process. The council can always decide to come out and do more publicly after that but We need to do that. And I know it's not right now, you know, it's not popular to say that we need to have a closed session but this is one time I would say that we really do need to and so I am recommending that we hold a closed session this Thursday.
I think we were trying to work to get it set for about 1 p.m because we're trying to do in the afternoon and it was a scheduling conflict for too many people At 1 p.m all council members can attend, we have some staff scheduling conflicts that I'll let everybody know about but the council members can attend which is really the key important thing for this discussion and so with that I recommend that and then from that discussion I expect we will have a lot more to talk about at a future meeting as far You know, whether we hire a recruiter.
And that's one of the key questions that I will say I am probably going to end up recommending because we've had where still hiring an assistant city manager and we're making progress but they're not going to be starting in time to probably do that recruitment as fast as we need to. So we're recommending essentially the council can give any feedback, any direction. Can decide to either hold the closed session or not and how they want to do it but that's what we're recommending is a closed session on Thursday to interview the interim candidates.
Thank you James. Any questions from council? Yes, oh yeah
go ahead.
I just wanted to know are they coming in person or is this on zoom?
It's all zoom partially because of we're it's a pretty big time rush so rather than try to coordinate a few weeks out We're going to do a zoom interview. Um, we basically have to know by about Tuesday if the council is going to select one of those people to then put it on the agenda to get approved in public the following Tuesday. So we decided right now that time was more important than getting them in person.
So we're all gonna be here but they're gonna be on the screen
Yeah, and it'll likely be in the conference room given OBG mays meeting that afternoon here and chambers It will probably be in the conference room The other component is zoom interviews saves costs in terms of C's not paying for folks to fly in for interviewing.
Yeah I'm fine with that. I just
wanted to be clear on it Thank you, and yeah, I won't I won't be here So I'll be you I'll be on zoom. I'll be joining through zoom. Okay great
Andy so is that an option joining on zoom or is that
Yes, with certain legal requirements to be followed. Most importantly disclosing the remote location publicly unless the just cause of emergency circumstances exceptions apply. So Council Member Lange will be listing the remote location so we could for example list your office if you're willing
I'll have to figure that out. But also, I'm going to need permission slips for APCD and for OBGMA because if I attend that session, I am going to miss both of those but I think I need to attend that session. All right well
we will go ahead and move on to public comment. Nothing in the house? Anything online Weston?
No raised hands, Mayor.
Okay let's move on to discussion.
I'll make a motion that we follow this process for recruitment on the interim city manager position
1:30 – 1:3212 turns
Second I'll second it. Okay,
we should add in whatever James mentioned that there was going to be some discussion of the Permanent position as well and we should add that I think to the motion Friendly
amendment for sure.
Are we ready for a roll call? You need anything else? No,
the item will be agendized as public employment and public employee appointment interim city manager and final city manager mindful that other state laws require the final approval of those positions to be in public but it's an opportunity for interviews for interim candidates And for the permanent, it's an opportunity for the council to discuss the process of making the appointment which could include hiring, directing a recruiter or that process go forward and if desired sorting out some options for future public participation in the process.
Some cities will have a public component not the first interview is noted you don't get good candidates at the first interviews public after the councils made some final selections there's ways to do that. So that'll all be considered in the closed session to come if approved. Great, thank
you. Do we know how many candidates we have?
A handful at this, for interim is a handful. Smaller One hand and smaller than one full hand Okay, we're I'm being vague because we're trying to we don't have the full list. Yes, I see confirmed yet It's not a lot this is a very compressed process
great Roll call please listen
Roll-call vote Passed 5–0
Show transcript
motion passes. Okay
great we will be there on Thursday and it's James your last day is on Bastille Day which I think is very fitting
so
okay let's take a five-minute break and then we'll come back with item number four thank you
1:37 – 1:447 turns
Thank you very much.
Okay Okay, we are back And we will begin with item number four request for We come to quiet please. Thank you a request for indemnification of councilmember rule Council member rule if you have a presentation
No, I don't have a presentation. Um, I guess I can speak to it I think it's it's probably I mean it's going to come down to What the government code says so I would ask for Matt's opinion? I mean all I really need To that I feel like I need to Emphasize is that at the time, you know? I was acting as a city council member and as such I am entitled to indemnification. I don't think anyone can and there are two exceptions for indemnification One is fraud and I have unfortunately forgotten the other one Pardon me Oh, bribery. Fraud or bribery, which I think none of those are in play here.
And finally we have a DA sort of recommendation that while I violated the Brown Act, I did it with honest intentions and belief that I was... Would you like to ask the audience? I don't think your mic's on.
Sorry, could we please stay quiet in the audience? Thank
you. That it was done with honest intentions and to Matt's point or the entire council's point I don't believe that, I think I am adhering to the DA's definition of violation of the Brown Act. And like the council here, I'm not sure that I actually violated the Brown Act but that having been said, I understand that the DA is the final word on that so I have basically said I violated the Brown Act You know there are conditions around times when you can speak in close, you can speak what happened in closed session.
And there are conditions around that that allow you to do that. I did not. The district attorney has a process that is not codified in either law or in case law. But they have a process that they follow, and so I am adhering to it. So my understanding is that as a city council member, I am indemnified against actions that I take that are not bribery or fraud.
So I'm asking for indemnification. The other side of this is, is that if you don't it will be an option for me to sue to get reimbursement for council expenses and additionally to get costs for having to sue to get reimbursement I mean, I don't think there's any reason to speak to the lawsuit. So I'm not going to, I'm just gonna let that be what it is but this is exactly the reason why indemnification occurs is because anybody can sue any council member for any reason for anything so likewise each and every one of you have broken the Brown Act have violated the Brown Act according to the DA. You may or may not argue that, so a citizen could come to you just as easily and hand you just as easily the same complaint.
I could just switch out your names actually if you really wanted to know about it. So you are at the same risk as everyone else because anyone can sue a city council member hence that is why indemnification happens I'm not going to go deeply into this. The council's either going to agree or not, I think that the law supports me 100%. So that's really all I have to say to it. I would appreciate either the city attorney's opinion or the city manager's opinion And I will also point out that when these same people sued Cynthia Burrell as our-
City clerk.
As our city clerk and also the city, I don't know Matt was the recipient of that but I don't think he was the named suit but we now have an attorney from his firm And we have another attorney defending a second part of that suit, but we did not take a vote on indemnification for them.
1:44 – 1:4926 turns
That's not correct but continue.
Well, I just
didn't remember it could
I would like to
hear what is correct?
Yeah yeah i mean you can you can you can say that we didn't but the agendized item said no report out expected which means that no vote was expected Don't I don't want to argue with you about this. I really don't because it was our first council meeting When this came up, I think it was our first council meeting point being I Don't know what to say if you're going to contend that we took a vote I would ask the other council members today may remember taking a vote about whether or not we would Indemnify other members of the city. I don' So anyway I
believe it was our third meeting, January 24th. It might have been, it might have been. It was the third one in December. Yeah we
were at a small conference
room,
yeah. Mr.
City
Attorney? I
want to hear from the city attorney. Yeah, I do too! And I wanna hear the difference between Council Member Ruhl's situation and Cynthia Burell. And then I'll make comments at their appropriate time.
Sure, happy to answer a couple of points. So the council by consensus in closed session approved the defense of the city and the defense of the city clerk in that lawsuit, the Hess versus Burrell et al lawsuit. It wasn't contested. There was no need for vote, it was consensus. Obviously this is contested. The council's question that it has to answer is whether to act tonight, whether to approve the request for indemnification, whether to disapprove the request for indemnification Or whether to take no action tonight and continue the matter for further evaluation, which could include evaluation. A request to me to prepare a lengthy memo which I haven't prepared pending request from council could also include requests for other counsel to prepare it given that I was a witness to some of the facts at issue.
Other standard, the other components to note are in considering the identification request. The Council has to consider Government Code Section 825 which provides for indemnity for a act or omission The question is whether an exception in government code section 825.6 sub A has triggered actual fraud, corruption or malice or willfully failed, or refused to conduct a defense of the claim or action in good faith? Those are all questions for the council to consider.
The other component is as I understand it there's...the council could ask for more detail from Council Member Rule on the request that has been provided so far. It's also up to the council The other thing I would note is that my advice is that Council Member Rule not vote on the item as it is a request by her for the payment of money on her behalf, by the city.
So my advice is that the other four members of council vote and Council Member Rule recuse, as previously you and I discussed before. That's not a surprise.
Right, so no that's absolutely not a surprise. So I would just for clarification what is the first the fourth condition for under government code 825? I didn't get the fourth one.
Oh um the fourth one i said was 825.6 Is
that in here?
No
none of
this is in there. It's exceptions to the duty for indemnity and the council public entity can refuse to indemnify because of actual fraud, one. Two, corruption. Three, actual malice or four if an employee willfully failed or refused to conduct a defense of the claim or action in good faith which may not yet be applicable because we haven't, the lawsuit to my knowledge hasn't moved forward.
I don't think you were served tonight but I don't think there has been any response yet.
No, there hasn't.
I have a question. Can you estimate Matt approximately how much this has cost the city in terms of money and time staff time? Instead that it was revealed closed session was revealed in the meeting and then we've had to talk about several times versus Taking, you know, you and James suggested that councilmember rule take a different path so because that choice was your advice was not followed how much has this cost the city and
I think all told, if you add up the discussions regarding indemnity and the Brown Act and Transparency Workshop and the discussions regarding the District Attorney's Challenge and all of the responses there to easily several tens of thousands of dollars. I haven't done that analysis directly but it's substantial costs especially when you consider the effective hourly rate for council meetings of which there have been a fair amount on the matter.
Okay. Thank you. All right, well are we ready to move to more questions? I
have some questions. Well, that comment could be applied to other lawsuits as well. It's unfortunate. I consider this a frivolous lawsuit.
We're still on questions for staff. Questions and then discussion.
1:49 – 2:0225 turns
Okay, well I'm assuming that we're going to find out from the public what this is really all about. Because I don't understand what this is
about. Any other questions from
Council? Actually for a council member rule. So it's my understanding that with this lawsuit settlement is an option
We offered a settlement the third day and they refused it. And our settlement was that we would adhere to the DA's findings, and that was our settlement. We offered a settlement the next day, and it was denied. Not interested in settling apparently, yeah.
So in the request for indemnification, it would be paying to go for this to go to trial or to go in front of a judge?
Correct. Now I will say yeah that is correct that that it is lawyers costs so basically I'm being sued as a council member for you know violating the Brown Act if I weren't a council member and you couldn't sue me for violating the Brown Act Obviously, I did it from the dais. You can decline to agree but I did it from the dais. I did it as a council member so I don't think that is at question. I think if you went to court, I don't think the judge would say no, you weren't acting. In other words, I think if this goes to court my guess is that this is all going to be thrown out because the DA has made his determination. He has said it was an honest mistake. It was my first... So he has said all of this. The foremost legal authority in the county on the Brown Act has said all of this So, you know I'm not gonna...
The thing to realize is that every one of you are susceptible to this exact same thing. You have all according to the DA violated the Brown Act and so each one of you could be the recipient of exactly the same thing and that's what's really important to remember and that's why indemnification of city employees is so important because when things are done, and I sat here and I said, I do not believe I am violating the Brown Act. And I did not believe I was violating the Brown Act.
Laws are interpreted different attorney that's why you have attorneys because laws are interpreted. And we are going to go to court and one attorney is going to say one thing. They're gonna interpret the law this way, and another attorney is gonna go and interpret the law that way. So my interpretation of the law And I did think it through and I did get other opinions. My interpretation of the law was that I was not violating the Brown Act, and that was my interpretation of the law honestly and truly. That was my interpretation of the law.
And you know Matt and I called James and Matt as soon as I possibly could I would say that we have differing ideas on how that conversation went, but there are two exceptions that allow a council member to disclose what happened in closed session outside of the one of disclosing. There are three. One is disclosing to the DA, but there are two others that allow a council member to disclose what happened in closed session.
I was not made aware of these at the time that there are those two options. So, I mean, I don't want to relitigate this if it ends up going to court and I am absolutely fine with that. I cannot guarantee that I will not come back and ask for reimbursement for court costs on this and also reimbursement for having to probably, you know, legally go get the reimbursement. So in the end I think that the salient facts are that each and every one of you according to the DA and myself have violated the Brown Act. Each and every one of you are also susceptible. That is why you have indemnification.
You did not know, and you may contend that you didn't violate the Brown Act. That's not what we're talking about here. What we're talking about here is what the highest member of the law who determines these in the county has determined. So that's where we stand and I'm tired of pushing this off. We need to move past this and we need to move on You know, every attorney who's looked at this says it's an absolutely frivolous lawsuit. So you know, it is what it is and I'm not worried about it so thank you.
What are those two other options Council Member Ruehl that you mentioned?
The other two options are so one is if I had come out and I hadn't been so specific and named specificity So I named names. I said, so-and-so from this particular firm and so-and-so recommended it. And so it's specificity. If I had come out and spoken more generally and just said we went behind closed session and we decided to do this, this, and this and not say the specificity of it
Wasn't I'm sorry real quickly my understanding that it was more about Rather than it was that you're entitled to say. It's my opinion that what happened? That's the
second one That's the second example is it's my opinion. I could have said in my opinion We did certain things in closed session so coming off as an opinion, but what I did was I was too factual and On both those cases, I was too factual. I didn't preview that this is my opinion and I wasn't told that that was a possibility of the Brown Act at the time before I disclosed any of this in my conversation with the city attorney. I wasn't given the option that I could possibly do this what was said to me was The only option you have is to go to the DA. And in fact, there were other options that could've been used but I did not know that and I did not know that until the DA actually told me that.
Could we get some clarification on that from
city attorney? Yeah and I'm happy to show you a document by the DA stating that had you done this but you didn't. I'm happy to show you that.
That document was in the council's packet at the previous meeting. Okay, thank you. It's inherent and in the district attorney's letter which states in part The prohibition on closed session disclosure has three exceptions Disclosure to district attorney or grand jury concerning a perceived violation of law to expressing an opinion concerning the propriety or legality of actions taken by a legislative body I'm going to read it out loud.
Although exceptions two and three might have been potentially applicable, Ms. Rule's factually detailed disclosure exceeded the limited scope offered by either exception. The factual details contained within Ms. Rule's disclosure exceeded an opinion concerning the propriety or legality of Council actions and exceeded the nature and extent of such actions. Nor does Ms. Rule's belief that Council discussions exceeded the scope of the listed agenda exceptions transmute such discussions into non-confidential information.
Moreover, Council Member Rule is not entitled to unilaterally decide her disclosure of closed session information qualified under exception two or three above. Otherwise a member of any legislative body could publicly disclose privileged closed session information upon acclaimed good faith belief that the disclosure falls under exceptions two or three above.
All right, so just to sort of clarify that. Yes, those are the two exceptions that I could have conceivably used but was unaware of and what I was also unaware of there is no case law neither is there I'm going to go ahead and get started. Thank you. But there was nowhere that said the DA is the deciding, you know, that I can't unilaterally decide that. In retrospect it makes absolute sense that I unilaterally can't decide these things but like I said there's nothing in either statutory law or case law that says that the DA is the one who has to give me the permission to do that So it's complicated, but having said that I understand why the DA would be the one who would make that determination. And so when I say that I could make an argument that the DA is wrong, but I'm not going to because it doesn't make sense to me to do that and I think we also need to move forward.
That having been said if the council you know you're all
from the public
Yes, sorry. I
just had one or two more comments you and I'm
sorry.
I'm sorry as you typically do so well my conversation in my memory of the conversation you're referring to in January is different than yours But that doesn't need to be litigated again. We explained the options, you took a different option. The district attorney who is not the final arbiter of the Brown Act's requirements has declared in the quotes I read from his letter that those actions are vital to the Brown Act. It will be up to the council to decide whether or not the actions you took were within the course and scope of your employment as a City Council member. I would also note that the final arbiter of any Brown Act issue is a jury. and or a judge depending on the nature of a lawsuit. The district attorney is a critical part of the Brown Act enforcement infrastructure, very critical part and as we have acknowledged in the city's actions at the previous meeting in improving the unconditional commitment to cease and desist which forecloses lawsuits as threatened by the district attorney in the May 15th letter that's been foreclosed because the district attorney has accepted the council's response is substantially compliant with the statute Which forecloses that lawsuit other lawsuits exist as is this one here, but those in the end are judged by a court Through the court process.
Thank
you To the city attorney The conversation in January is that the conversation that in which councilmember rule is? Asked you or did was there a conversation about how to proceed with going forward with? Expressing concern about violations that she had made
Yeah. As Council Member Rule stated previously, she'd asked how do I get this information out in the public? We provided the process which did not include unilateral disclosure but included other options. We all have different memories of something that happened five months ago and the events that happened since then have long outweighed that particular event.
And did you discuss and James for you to the repercussions, the jeopardy that revealing closed session puts the city in?
As I recall yes there was discussion of the risks and the situation and the options. Okay
all right we have moved close to comments yep first we'll go with Bill Miley and then Anita Cram Thank you, okay think great Bill Miley Anita cram Sabrina Venskis Renee Roth Larry Steingold
2:02 – 2:0812 turns
Good evening, Bill Miley. The issue is new to me so I did some background reading. I understand the state law assigns the Brown Act enforcement to the State Fair Political Practices Commission. I did not read anywhere where in the suit document that this complaint has been submitted to the FPPC. The claim by the suing attorney that the City Attorney's advice on disclosure was correct has been questioned.
An important element in public government is doing the right thing, practicing ethical behavior as an elected servant. That requires if fully believed to disclose illegal or unethical conduct when found. Considering the issues that were going on Council member Rule, as a brand new elected official believes she was acting with high ethics in her disclosures.
Subsequently the council member has gained additional information about how to process such questionable items according to California law. Oh, I read the lawsuit document too and there's a typo there. It's on page five line 1718 it shows the date 12 2023 we haven't gotten there yet so but the one good solution is to agree on following the Brown Act and dropping the lawsuit She's already agreed to that and we now know more about the Brown Act than we ever wanted to know.
And my last comment is from my heart, it takes a high road of forgiveness. I forgive you for what happened. You've recognized it. Hold it within your soul and your heart, and we're going to work together. Because the only way to get anywhere is to cooperate in the problem solve. And I think if we were all able to forgive and drop it, we'd be better off as a city.
And we could pave our roads better or something like that.
Thank you, Bill. Next we have Anita Cram then Sabrina Venskis then Renee Roth.
Good evening everyone so I urge City Council to vote no on the indemnification of member rule in this lawsuit a yes vote would mean that that you approve taxpayers money to pay her legal fees for her free will choice Two, what appears to be break the law. The Ventura County District Attorney's Office found that Councilmember Rule violated the Brown Act with her disclosure on a closed session council information she was not entitled to as it's been said unilaterally decide that she had the authority to do so there were other avenues she is responsible to know that The report detailing this can be found in the June 16th City Council meeting agenda under discussion item number three, if you choose to look at it.
The individuals who filed this lawsuit are long-standing active community members. Two have lived in our city for 31 years each. Another has lived in our city for 43 years and another one for 16 years Of the others, one has been in the valley for 72 years and lived in the city 20 of those years. And the other one has been in the city 43 years or in the valley 43 years both in the city and the valley. They know this is improper behavior by a City Council member There has been a loss of confidence in the integrity of the local legislative process as a result of this behavior. These courageous individuals have come forth to say, this is not right.
You are breaking our city government system with this type of behavior. There needs to be consequences for this illegal and disruptive behavior. Any City Council member choosing to illegally disclose closed session private and confidential information should be held accountable for their actions, not the taxpayers. If City Council votes to indemnify member rule, some of the consequences could be force taxpayers to foot the bill for illegal actions by a member. Undermine the credibility of City Council by their support of inappropriate illegal activity Reward illegal actions, thus inviting it to occur again. This is an empty bucket or a bottomless bucket I guess I want to say. In addition Councilmember Rule needs to recuse herself from decisions from discussions that are a part of decision-making on this item, and as the lawyer has advised, abstain from voting.
There is a clear conflict of interest here. Thank you.
Thank you, Anita. Next we— Let me
ask
a question.
This is really I think the crux of the matter. It seems like the previous speaker is blaming Councilmember Rule—
We're really not supposed to comment on public discussion? You know, I really feel like we need to allow the community to discuss. Okay.
Well
okay, I will question you. May I question
her?
Madam Mayor, I would number one recommend anybody who's speaking speak through a microphone. This might all be litigated let's get it on tape. Number two, the council can ask questions of the speaker. The speaker can answer them or refuse to answer at the speakers will I'll turn it back to the mayor to control who's got the mic.
2:08 – 2:1622 turns
As the lawyer, maybe I shouldn't answer something but go ahead.
Anita are you clear in your mind that without this lawsuit? This would not cost the taxpayers any money It's the fact that these members of the public decided to sue Councilmember rule that there is potential taxpayer expense But without that and the city attorney can correct me if they had not brought forth this lawsuit This would not even be on the agenda, correct?
It's a chicken and egg question. If you go back to the beginning of time if Councilmember Rule hadn't made the disclosures if the closed sessions hadn't been discussed the way they were then Councilmember Rule hadn't disclosed them then the lawsuit hadn't been filed any one of those steps would have prevented where we are now So if the plaintiffs dropped the lawsuit, then it would prevent the indemnity request. If the plaintiff's hadn't filed a lawsuit, it would have prevented the indemnity request?
Yes.
If Councilman Rule hadn't made the disclosures that also would've prevented
the indemnity request. But that's the critical point. The point is that Whatever was the last two things you said that if
any one of the steps that occurred to get us to here
Uh-huh
had that not occurred. That would have prevented us from getting here, but it's it's about
well Well,
not any any each of them had to happen to get here Any one of them could have not happened The most recent step that happened is the request by councilman rule to be indemnified and the step before that Is the loss of the filing of the lawsuit?
I'm going to recommend that we continue
with public
comment
at this point.
Yeah, I don't think you really answered
it. Next we have Sabrina Venskis then Renee Roth and then Larry Steingold
Hi, Sabrina Venskas, attorney for the seven plaintiffs in Byrne et al versus Rule. Just to clarify a couple misconceptions that were stated by Ms. Rule, this is not a lawsuit against a council member. This is a lawsuit against an individual named Leslie Rule as well as another individual named John Drucker. The lawsuit is brought under section 54963 that provides that a person may not disclose confidential information that has been acquired by being in, by being present in a closed session authorized by other government code sections to a person not entitled to receive it unless the legislative body authorizes disclosure of that confidential information. That's important for you to know for two reasons. That section allows a private right of action against any person that discloses closed session information.
That could be somebody that's not a council member, but if the person discloses the confidential information without the legislative body meaning the council allowing it They are acting outside of their scope as a council member and they can be sued under this section. The other reason why that's important that I want to tell you is because you were told, I heard tonight from Ms. Rule, you were told that this... You could also get a lawsuit for allegedly from her perspective violating the Brown Act on the agendized item question right? The question about whether items were agendized correctly That's incorrect. You as an individual could not be sued for that, and the reason why is because the provision that Ms. Rule as an individual is being sued under applies only to disclosure of confidential information.
It doesn't have to do with things like you didn't agendize things correctly or you didn't give people the three minutes that you should've been provided, the person should've been provided under the Brown Act. So this is totally apples and oranges. So I just wanted to make sure that I clarified that and And corrected some of the statements that were made if there's any questions, I'm happy to answer.
Yeah, I have a question Sure. Okay what? We're in a point in time where we need to bring this community together. We desperately need to bring the community together and act as a whole. What do you hope, what good do you hope to accomplish by this lawsuit? What public good do you hope to accomplish?
I have no comment.
Is there any other questions? Okay next we have Renee Roth and then Larry Steingold
Yes, my name is Renee Roth. And thank you Sousa for your question about what public good could possibly come out of this lawsuit and several other lawsuits that have been filed against the city of Ojai. From the lawsuit They state, as a result of violations of the Brown Act, the plaintiffs represented by Sabrina Venskis, her law firm have suffered harm. I would like to say that I have also suffered harm, but am I going to sue the city?
Does that make sense for me to do that? I have suffered harm including a loss of confidence in the integrity of the local legislative process. I sat here and witnessed Matt Summers say In a closed meeting, anything that is said in a closed meeting must stay in a closed meeting. I remember Matt Summers specifically saying that. Anything said in a closed meeting must stay in a closed meeting.
Before all of this rate of all the things that were said, I do believe that if you continue to react to and allow these kinds of lawsuits to come before the city and not support. Your representative elected officials, you are doing harm to the city. You are doing and inflicting more harm by saying you know more than the representatives who've elected our local officials. You need to stand by and support our locally elected officials And we need to figure out ways to get rid of these lawsuits. I'm sick of them, I'm really sick of them and we need to bring in cooperation, collaboration you know ways to resolve disputes dispute resolution processes If Matt Summers hadn't have said that during the meeting, I think there maybe would've been a chance for Leslie Rule to be able to say, Matt, I want to meet with you about this.
I have concerns about what Mr. Whitman said during a meeting. I would like to know how to address this. This should not have happened and it needs to be addressed but this lawsuit should not be the way to do it.
2:16 – 2:2224 turns
Next we have Larry
Steingold. The two exceptions that you were given by the DA, right? Those were part of the Brown Act. Mr. Summers did you have those two exceptions from the Brown Act? Okay, but did you read them prior to the meeting? Did you teach them? You're the attorney, you're the directing force for this city.
I sent an email to the entire City Council when they were elected with a variety of Brown Act training materials which included information on all of the exceptions. Oh
come
on! You were at
the meeting. It's your job to stop them from breaking the Brown Act. They should have known the exceptions. They should have known all this. That's your job.
Just to correct the record she came in with her own attorney
Which I thought was
quite
bizarre. At the closed meeting, at the closed meeting when you were there he's there. I'm confused
right now is this a public comment on
this? Yes because give it to his errors and omissions account okay he can't be a genius on everything he can't know the Brown Act for everything that's part of errors and omissions let him take care of it The lawsuit, okay? Because the city attorney is responsible for keeping you people on the straight and narrow. To no fault of your own, you're amateurs. Even Mr. Whitman's an amateur, he's an attorney but he's not an attorney of this.
And just to clarify, Mr. City Attorney and James if you're listening I was under the impression that you did exactly that. Correct. Can we let him speak please?
Yeah, as I understand Mr. Steingold's asserting the idea of that my responsibility lies in preventing Council Member Rule from having made her disclosures for which she was sued in this lawsuit by the members of the public cited earlier. As those will recall from the January 24th meeting, I did so in stating to Ms. Rule not to make the disclosures that she made. She made them anyway The council then, it was a discussion. A motion was made to allow her to make the disclosures. That motion didn't get a second. The council thereby directed the disclosures not to be made. I attempted to do what I could to protect the city. The discussion regarding the closed sessions themselves which is not the subject of tonight's meeting nor is that the subject of the lawsuit.
I'm still speaking. As recognized by the mayor... As I was recognized by the mayor, the closed sessions themselves we discussed at length in the last meeting. We wrote a long memo disagreeing in part with Brown with the district attorney's assessment of it and the lawsuit that's been filed against Council Member Rule in her individual capacity and against Mr. Drucker It does not challenge the closed sessions. It challenges the disclosure of the closed session, which is something distinct and which I had attempted to prevent on January 24th, albeit unsuccessfully. Thank you.
Do you want to finish? Yes.
I would give it to his insurance company and let them decide. Okay. And you do owe her an apology for the cheap shot earlier about her interrupting because they're your employers. Employers interrupt. Sorry. To the young woman who said everybody was here 40 years, 70 years, 80 years, 100 years. We've only been here six years and I care as much about Ojai as they do and that's why I'm here.
And please record the audio for closed sessions. And the last thing is this thing is not going to go away. Please be politically astute and solve this problem
Thank you Larry. Any comments online Weston?
No raised hands on Zoom Mayor.
Okay we will move on to discussion. Anyone like to begin?
Yeah, I do not see any public good coming out of this lawsuit. I know each one of the individuals who signed on and it's kind of glaring that they're not here tonight none of them are here and I happen to know that they also disagree with many of Leslie Ruth some of not many but there they are in disagreement with some of her policies on And I feel like this is what's the word retribution. There is no I do not see any public good served by this lawsuit it's a way to teach you know someone a lesson and I am absolutely if they will not drop the lawsuit then I feel as a council we need to come together and support our duly elected colleague And satisfy the request for indemnification. I feel like that would be a gesture of goodwill.
I could cry when I look at this, it's such a waste of our time and so not in the direction that we wanna go to as a council. You know, we need to move forward, learn our lessons but not go back and keep suing because this will inevitably cost money. It's a waste of money.
Can I just, this begs the question Sousa what do you think about revealing closed session?
What do I think about that? Yeah. First of all there...I'm not okay I don't feel like that's the best, whatever I feel about what she revealed at close. First of all, I feel like that all those closed sessions were a complete mess waste of time waste of city funds. But
that's not my question.
But it's my but my response to your question is that is not a reason Councilmember Whitman. Yeah, so I Don't think that we can
2:23 – 2:3310 turns
agree to indemnify under Government Code 825, the simplest reason is that this code section is part of the Tort Claims Act. And the Tort Claims Act specifically excludes actions for injunctive relief and declaratory relief. Tort Claims Act applies to claims where there's an injury and the plaintiff is seeking indemnification for an injury, so there's some type of monetary damage.
And that person is going to the government and wanting to get reimbursement for those damages. And this isn't one of those cases, in fact there's plenty of... I'm not gonna cite legal authority because that would be beyond the point but there are... There's a Supreme Court case and there's many Appellate court cases that say that declaratory relief and injunctive relief are not part of the Tort Claims Act. And we're being asked to indemnify her under the Tort Claims Act, and it simply doesn't apply.
Part and parcel of that, and going to Mr. Steingold's comment, the city did tender the defense of council member rule to Carl Warren & Company. And Carl Warren & Company basically came back with a response talking about our insurance policy and our coverage and our exclusions, and it simply doesn't Our insurance doesn't apply to the type of conduct and the type of claim that's applied, essentially because it's not a personal injury type of a claim.
I disagree 100% with the idea that we would be subject to a lawsuit for our involvement and what the district attorney, his conclusions in that very important distinction. And that is at every step of the way in each of those meetings, we followed the direction of our city attorney and our city manager. I went through this at the last session but you know We didn't bring up the idea that we should be talking about the referendum in conjunction with that meeting, but the referendum is tied intimately to the lawsuit that was filed by Simply O.I..
Because each of them address the ordinance that was adopted by the city before any you know, most of us took our seats and By the way that you know that referendum gathered over 600 signatures Which is quite a chunk of the city population, that referendum that you Councilmember Francina have described as a waste of time. But the fact is they gathered enough signatures that required us legally to go through that process We were mandated to go through that process that you think is a waste of time.
I don't know that I said the referendum was a waste of time, I said these
lawsuits... It's what we were talking about in the closed session, Sousa, that you say was such a waste of time and in contrast to those more than 600 votes I know Council Member Rule wanted to bring up how many votes that Sousa got when we were talking at the last session about, you know, how much deference to give her. Councilmember rule received 338 votes For her to take her seat. So I mean if that's a Reasonable way to look at people and how we should value them That we should value the referendum and what the voters wanted us to do
What's that got to do? I'm not getting the point. I'm not getting the point.
Okay, that's fine You usually don't Wow, okay
Councilmember Lang.
Yeah, I have some work on this Okay,
go ahead
okay, so the cot V look What what is you know, so I hear all this Talk about how you know we have to come together But I didn't hear any of that talk during session after session after session of City Council that were designed to attack the character of our mayor and I view what happened and came out of this set of events as just a continuation of that continual attack on our mayor.
And I do believe that there's a reason to at least take some pause and look at whether the conduct in disclosing all this information was malicious. There was no reason to go into discussion of conversations with our attorney In which we're attempting to figure out the legal basis for and what the legal consequences are. I'll tell you that I went into those meetings with the idea that I would try to put the city in the best position possible for if the voters were going to vote the referendum down or in the best position, if they're going to vote the referendum up.
And whether our vote on the referendum which was you know we were supposed to look at a yes or no vote before sending it to the voters And I looked at all of those and all of the legal implications, and how that would put our city in the best position to move forward. And I think that's what every one of us attempted to do but it was viewed as an opportunity to discuss all of what we're trying...
Statement the council member rule said last time about what she really wanted to get could have been handled in a One or two paragraph letter if not a one paragraph letter, but we got like 14 pages of like a litany of everything that happened in those meetings and That was really wrong so the last thing I'm gonna say about you know course and scope is that we I In contrast to those who are following the advice of our attorney, we had an attorney very vehemently explaining that this information should not be disclosed and it would be against the law if it was disclosed.
What we know from that meeting that there were members of the public who were told all of these disclosures well in advance. In fact just last week we had one of Councilmember Rule supporters talk about the fact that he knew about what happened in closed session because Councilmember Rule told him That's not how government is supposed to work, and we did have council member Rule ask us after being instructed by council not to disclose the information.
She asked us if we would waive our privilege. It's the privilege of a body, it's not a one-person privilege. There is no unilateral ability to disclose privilege that's held by this body and she was not given that permission to disclose the privilege of the body and chose to do it anyways, and any consequences that come from her disclosure are what she can bear. And the last thing I can say is maybe this thing can be resolved very quickly.
Talk to the attorney for the plaintiffs about agreeing to an injunction agreeing to a statement of declaratory relief that sets forth the facts and the law that happened. And you know maybe there's some ability to settle this and put it behind us, but the lawsuit asked for a lot more than a suggestion that oh I won't do it again when Everything I hear suggests that there isn't a belief that anything wrong was done. Those are my comments. I have a number
line, I'm sorry go ahead
2:33 – 2:4938 turns
So I just have a few things to say first of all I agree with Mayor Pro Tem Francina That I'm ready to put this behind us My heart is broken for the city And when I first saw this lawsuit, what went through my mind is that the plaintiffs in this case must have felt like they had no other choice. I have not spoken with them, so I don't know specifically what led them to take the actions that they did.
But I would imagine that it's sitting and watching council meeting after council meeting Where the city attorney is telling you not to say things and you're fighting back. And I'm sorry, I don't like being put in this position at all. To be making judgments about my fellow council members. That is not what I signed up for when I ran for office. I signed up to create policy, to do great things for the city. Not to be in a fight every other Tuesday.
And so and I'm not saying, I'm not putting this all on you. I'm putting this on us as a whole. We need to figure out how to work together. And so I want to just speak to a couple of different things. And first of all, I just want to tell the people of Ojai, I am sorry. This is not how we should run a city. And I'm angry that we're here being put in this position And so a couple of things are standing out to me in this conversation and I came here with, I came in tonight with really wanting to support you.
Really wanting all of us to work together but a couple of things that are standing out in my mind as we're talking is that That we've done everything we could to follow our city attorney's guidance because he ultimately knows more than we do about what is going to protect us, what's going to keep us safe and what's gonna keep us away from lawsuits. And so we've acted within the scope of our employment But you went outside of that scope of employment to disclose what you did and in the way you did, which was really harmful.
Again I'm sorry, I don't like being put in this position. And so, you know, the word malicious kind of stands out to me. And I think the word malicious is a pretty horrible word. When I hear it, I'm like, ooh bad things! You're evil. But the intent to go against the city attorney and the intent to do harm falls under the category of malicious. And so when Anita and others who have spoken to me privately, no one involved in this lawsuit says this is taxpayer's money.
What I think of is the conversation we just had about the budget and cutting community funding Cutting funding for the chamber, cutting funding for help of OHAI. We're making all of these sacrifices in the budget and we don't know how much the legal fees are going to be for this. And so one you know I think there are a couple options. One is that and I took some notes just so I wouldn't lose my train of thought.
But one is that we could choose to take no action right now, and then if you continue to pursue the suit and you win on the merits of your case, then you could come back to the council and request reimbursement. At that time I would be agreeable to reimburse you if you win on the merits of your case but
You can't prejudge
Okay, okay. I might consider I would consider I would consider that correct Thank You councilmember Whitman But to say to vote to Act and approve your request for indemnification says, I'm voting to spend an unknown number of taxpayer dollars for something that I don't think is fair. And I can't in good conscience do that.
Okay, I have a few comments.
Well, I haven't made a comment so... This is in response to Rachel
though. Yes, there was never anything malicious. I immediately came under attack from council members directly towards me and felt I had to defend myself. I mean direct attack. So, you know believe it or not there was never anything malicious. It was strictly I believed that what we did in closed session Number one, I did not believe that everything in closed session has to stay in closed session. That is if I say I killed somebody, you know, is that private and confidential?
No. I mean, I know that's an extreme example but it is still an example of the dictum that anything said in closed session remains private and confidential. That's clearly not the case. And as far as, I have a different feeling towards the city attorney than everyone here does. I believe that law is interpreted. Now, I do believe that the city attorney interprets the law to protect the city in the way that he thinks protection should happen.
What has happened here is this lack of transparency is what has caused this huge discourse, this huge just dissent and this horrible stuff was the lack of transparency. So an attorney's approach and an attorney who believes that... And I do believe that City Attorney believes this, that the less you can possibly say, the more safe you are And I do not, and I think you have said this. And I do not believe that to be the case. I really do not. I think that does not work in Ojai.
So there was never anything malicious but I have been the source of attacks from this dais number of times, number of times as has happened to Sousa just now. Our first council meeting, I was verbally abused as was Sousa
As was Mayor Sticks.
I'm talking about our
first
closed session.
Let's no crosstalk.
I don't know, Andy if you thought... I mean Rachel did you feel like the mayor was... Reminder that this is
not a conversation.
You take a
turn and
then I'll take
a turn
Well, it really should be a conversation. Perhaps Council Member Whitman who just barged in at conversation again and has once again attacked a fellow council member on this dais. He did that innumerable times to me on the dais. He did that by the first time I met him in a session he did that to me. He abused me verbally And that was malicious. What I have done was only, and it had nothing to do with the mayor, the mayor and I were best friends for two days until I realized what was actually going on. I have the text, Betsy-
No but just one second you can't become best friends in two days we met for two hours
and had a good
conversation.
I am being hyperbolic on this Could you
refrain from being hyperbolic and
just stick to the truth? We had a very good relationship for two days until we went into closed session, and then we had no relationship. So as far as numbers, the suit says that I only won by 17 votes. That is why I have brought up the numbers consistently, because that's the first thing that it says. And by the way she only won by 17 votes. That is why I have brought that up not for any other reason and if that is relevant to a suit Right, then Sousa is relevant to a suit. And finally I'm going to say Matt you did not and perhaps James, I don't want to bring him in but you did not say there were two options to disclose, you really did not. You can say we had differing understandings but we also have a differing understanding on what best serves this city.
I do not believe that hiding things from the public best serves the city and I do not believe what happened in closed session. fell under a privileged and confidential. And the DA agreed with me that having been said, we're gonna go to trial, we're gonna ask for costs, you know? We're gonna win or we're not. And as far as recusing myself I have no financial interest in this at all.
Every bit of the attorney work that has been done has been pro bono. So I will not recuse myself because I have no financial interest in this whatsoever, and as I understand it, you can't force a recusal. I have no financial interest. I have paid nothing and I will not pay anything.
Well, I do need to ask you then why did you consistently ask me to recuse when I had no financial?
Well, I'm saying that you said no. I asked you to recuse because I didn't think that you would be impartial because the people in front of
me were your friends. All right, I don't want to get off topic. Let's continue with the discussion. Council Member Lange and then I am going to speak after that.
I just had one point of clarification that our city attorney kind of glossed over and that is for clarification that when we were all Actually before we were even officially sworn in, we were sent a ton of information about the Brown Act. We were sent a website, the FPCC website with all of the rules. We were sent packets of information. I still have the packets and so we did know. We did have the information and I know it wasn't perhaps communicated verbally but it was communicated to us
I'm just
quickly
you know, I really I really but I talked quite a bit. This is on me. Yeah I mean it's really important to take turns
what we didn't have were the two options for For Disclosing that's what we didn't have the two Information.
Okay, can we I would love the city attorney to speak one more time on recusal because right to me It seems like there's some money involved here not for me
There can't be indemnification without their being money involved Otherwise, there's nothing to talk about
right?
The
request is from money to be spent on behalf of councilmember rule My advice is that Councilman rule is required to recuse under the Political Reform Act Because it would it comes to her material financial benefit and that the money would be spent on her behalf and If she elected not, if the council declined indemnity, council member rule could refuse, could let a default be taken against her. Generally you can't get a default in an injunctive relief case generally although it's theoretically possible but it's money that if the city doesn't spend it on your behalf then it has to be spent then either you spend or do you default and against the case So it is money to be spent on your behalf. It's not being spent in any other council members' behalf, therefore it, in my advice, is a recusal question.
There is one potentially elegant solution which would be to ask the FPPC for advice on that question. The Fair Political Practices Commission does not enforce the Brown Act. They enforce the Political Reform Act, and they enforce the prohibition on contracts between council members in cities, Government Code Section 1090. They have a formal advice process. We've used it before in the past on conflicts issues. We could certainly do an advice letter request to the FPPC, ask them to advise on the question of Council Member Rule's ability to vote on the indemnification question, and then see what they say. That would be one option.
My advice is that recusal is required. I expect that they would agree, but obviously the I would defer to the FTC if they advise otherwise And I'm not sure if any requests have been made previously. No there was some discussion of that in the public discussion I'm not sure that wasn't done or not
Thank you Okay. Well, I would just first like to say I'm really sorry councilmember rule that you are in this situation It's unpleasant for all of us particularly you so that I acknowledge that That given that said You did create the situation So I think that we need to acknowledge that and you were told very specifically by the city manager and the City Attorney Don't do it And to speak to Anita Cram's comment I talked to a lot of people and Everyone, I have talked to has said don't use our taxpayers money on this They feel very very strongly that they should not be paying for this You know you went against the advice of the city attorney in the City Manager and you took the advice of a cannabis lawyer You acted willfully against the city, and you engaged legal counsel to oppose the interests of the city.
Do you mind, Sousa? I don't do that when you're talking. And you unlawfully disclosed closed session discussion and attorney-client privilege communication which violated the Brown Act putting us, the city in a potential lawsuit and damaging our position in that lawsuit so I think that is really jeopardizes the safety of the city. You hurt the city and you put us in jeopardy I also agree with Marcy Tosher who wrote in, who's a local attorney.
She said that you made it clear that you prioritized Mr. Drucker's input over the city's attorney. And that you made your own decisions to retain Mr. Drucker as an attorney of your choosing, that is wholly independent from the alleged victim of the lawsuit, the city of Ojai. So because I've... Because you did make those choices on your own, I don't see how we could rightfully use taxpayers' money to pay for this.
You know,
2:49 – 2:5427 turns
I don't care. When it comes right down to it we're going to come back to you anyway, so. Okay, Susan?
Okay. I hope that we can take a pause. I want to present another option, okay? We've had about an hour or maybe an hour and a half to air out our grievances, to review the past. The public has heard it ad nauseum And we can make a different choice at this point. I would say that we can take the high road, and as a council come together and make a request of Sabrina and the plaintiffs that signed on to this to drop the lawsuit, that we take no action tonight except that we come together as a council and request that she drop the lawsuit. What she does with that request is not in our hands but I, that's my very strong recommendation and I think the public would breathe a collective sigh of relief if we took that higher road because really thinking outside the box it's a different choice
Is someone ready to put a motion on the table?
I
will make that motion. That's my motion.
Are you making a counter motion?
Yeah, I'll make a counter motion.
Substitute. Substitute
motion.
Can he do that without a second?
So the motion that was made by Mayor Pro Tem Francina is there a second to that? I'll second it. Okay so second. Then substitute motion can be made.
You're overriding his advice
This is not the same. This is not the same motion. This is a motion to talk to, to talk to the opposing attorney as a council if he wants to tell me I need to recuse myself then you know to me that's as a council we're asking
there's still money. I don't know. If Matt
wants to request the plaintiffs drop the lawsuit And
there's a second
it would financially benefit the councilmember I would still recommend recusal on anything on this item
Sure. Okay, so that motion dies? I want to hear
the
counter-motion
before I second.
So my motion is that we say no at this time. I would say what we see in court it's without prejudice to bringing it back but I think as a legal reality You can make the request for indemnity at any time. It's not like, you know, you ask once and then it never happens. I didn't see a showing today that would cause me to say yes but I wouldn't rule out the possibility of coming forward with better facts or arguments but at this point I'd say let's vote no without prejudice and yeah.
Is there a second for that motion? Oh, I will second that motion. Roll
call please? I'd like discussion. If you're going to do that why don't you just table it until the end of... I mean because saying no is making a statement. It is definitely making a statement and even if you put in without prejudice you are still making a statement. You could just table the discussion until after the lawsuit is filed.
There's a technical reason why not to follow that approach, and that is for you to come back with a request for us to revisit it. You would have to come up with new facts or new law.
So you can come in. Good to know that, good to know that. Okay, I still think that's sure. You just can't make the move, can you Andy? You can't find a way to come together. You have to be who you
are. Now let's reframe from getting personal please. We have a motion and a second. It's a pot in the kettle I think is what we're talking about here. Could we have the roll call please Weston? Quiet please.
Roll-call vote 2–1 motion and a second. It's a pot in the kettle I think is what we're talking about here. Could we have the roll call please Weston? Quiet ple · 2 under review
Show transcript
2:54 – 3:0234 turns
I'm sorry. I have to say no. You have to do what you have to do. I'm sorry, yeah and the reason why is because I think there are too many unknowns.
There's no discussion during the roll call. Wait a minute. Just to
clarify. Yes on the motion to deny the request?
Okay. Continue Weston? Is that it?
Council Member Ruhl.
She's... I don't get to vote. Yeah, I don' get to vote.
Okay, thank you very much. May I ask
a question of the City Attorney? Does this vote that was just taken rule out my recommendation that tonight everybody consider what transpired and I know for a fact if the mayor went to the city, to the attorney and made a case that we should move forward.
We have so much to do. Excuse me, Suze, you do not... How do you know that is a fact? That is not a fact. So please don't say things that are facts that just don't... I suspect. Well it's not true. I suspect. Well that's not suspicion. But
in any case if this council wanted to appeal to Sabrina and the plaintiffs that we as a community need to move forward and away from this, and that we've learned our painful lessons. That we can let it go and take the higher road. I believe that if a council... This motion that was just passed does not preclude this type of action.
Mayor Pro Tem you could make that motion and the council could act accordingly?
Absolutely.
I want to raise a question though here because if you know, if we do that as a body We're interjecting ourselves into a lawsuit that we're not a party to and so I think each individual council member and You know can communicate with plaintiffs and or that well Plaintiff Sandra or the plaintiff's attorney and, you know, talk to them about that. But I think the most productive thing would be for the defendant in the lawsuit to talk to the plaintiff attorney in the lawsuit about what injunctive relief and declaratory relief would be a satisfactory resolution of the lawsuit?
I have a question. Is what Councilmember Whitman stated true that we're interjecting ourselves? I don't believe that's true, I believe that we have a right to do that and my motion stands.
To the extent that that's a question to me, asking a plaintiff to dismiss a lawsuit is interjecting into a lawsuit. The council can though do it. Both of those are true.
Yes we can do it and it's not illegal if we decide that for the greater good it would be better to put all of this to rest
and move forward. It's not illegal to ask the plaintiffs to dismiss the suit. We have no power to compel them to do so though.
Well and as Council Member Whitman said, we can all do that as individuals.
Correct. But I believe that it's stronger to do it as a body and so my motion stands.
Okay is there a second?
I second the motion. Thank you.
Okay
roll call please Weston. Quick question, do I have to recuse myself from this?
As stated before I would recommend yes.
You would recommend?
That you recuse from the motion regarding requesting dismissal of the lawsuit in which you have now denied and indented a request that may return.
Okay, thank you. Roll call please Weston? Yes
Roll-call vote 1–2 motion regarding requesting dismissal of the lawsuit in which you have now denied and indented a request that may return. Okay, thank you. R · 2 under review
Show transcript
Okay, so it's tied to two.
Two-two is no action taken although the plaintiff's council is here So I would assume they've heard the request from those who voted for it.
Okay? All right Thank you. All right
Let's move on to item number five a request for a new development rental rate disclosure ordinance
Sorry, I'm gonna have to leave I'm not feeling well. Thank you Oh
So I hope you feel better. Okay, and I just wanted to start this by saying that I am super passionate about housing equity and doing everything we can to help renters stay in their homes. And I'm also really passionate that any new development agreement... Is everything okay? Do we need to pause or anything? No. Keep going, okay. I'm also super passionate that any new development agreement needs to serve those most in need first and not last so we need to build homes for people who need them the most and I'm pro-housing for people who really need it.
So I put this on the agenda because I'm concerned that people are misled by some of the words that are commonly used by proponents of new high rent housing developments Specifically the words workforce, low income and affordable. These words have been co-opted. For example a moderate income housing unit costs $3500 for a family of four and still meets the legal definition of affordable.
The question of course is affordable for whom? So I've had many conversations with people who believe that most or all affordable housing projects will actually provide places to live for local working or retired people at a rate that those with the modest incomes can actually afford. Often, those who are unaware of the complexity of affordable housing rules will express support for a proposed affordable housing development that is based on the commonly understood definition of affordable.
What most members of the public do not know is that the legal definition of affordable used in housing law is dramatically different than the definition of affordable. The word affordable that one would find in the common dictionary So I would like to make it very simple and just direct staff to draft an ordinance for consideration by the council That requires rental rate Transparency so that a proposed projects depth of affordability is easily understood by all The disclosed rental rates of deed-restricted units would reflect the maximum amount of rent allowed based on affordability guidelines in force at that time. Should a proposed project include one or more market rate units, the number and size of the market rate units will be required to be disclosed along with the following statement, these units have no restriction on rents.
So it's my intention to increase opportunities for those who live and work in Ojai to be able to become more informed as to whether or not a proposed development agreement is good for Ojai and its citizens. I'm looking at a simple, no-nonsense disclosure of rental rates of proposed housing developments that would greatly increase transparency I really trust that staff Could come back with simple proposed language that achieves our rental rate disclosure goals and the city attorney and I have talked about this And if we adopt an ordinance, then we can find ways to improve it as time goes on So any questions?
Yeah first we have questions Okay so
3:02 – 3:1238 turns
Who is the proposed ordinance going to be directed to?
Well, any potential development agreement that comes in front of us.
So this is to
a... So it's a legal way to ask a developer to include this information on any written
information? Okay, so it's not going to create some type of rules about what members of the general public can say about It's just going to be. Straight out
numbers and
OK so.
And can I just say the origin of this it was very interesting during one of our previous discussions with the lawyers from who are representing the Becker agreement because when I asked them how much their rent was as they were discussing these 67 units one of the lawyers said he didn't know and he didn't have those numbers which I think is very challenging for the public Let me finish comprehend when there are no numbers so That's sort of why I think it would be a very useful useful and simple thing to do To help people understand what's going on. So
part of the application process would include a Spelling out of that the Is there a financial basis of referring to the project as affordable and the qualifications under state law that relate to affordability? **
Monthly rent. That's it basically, monthly rent because you know, as we saw those numbers don't necessarily reflect what we think the word affordable means.
Yeah, I think part of the idea as stated by the mayor is to bridge the gap between the common understanding of the word affordable, little a, which means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. And some would define affordable as median income affordable. Others would define affordable as $750-$1,000 per month, something affordable to persons earning minimum wage.
The state legal definition of affordable, sort of the capital A Affordable is quite different and includes very low, low and moderate income units. And moderate income is affordable to persons earning for a single person up to $120,000 which is quite different than someone earning minimum wage which is roughly $30,000 a year. So as I understand the goal is to draft an ordinance that bridges the gap between the legal definitions of affordable and the common understanding of the word so that there's clarity in any communications from a developer
Well said, thank you. Okay let's
move on to
public
comment. Yeah and I just take it from your comment that you think that this is a achievable
Yeah, I think it's doable. There's a couple of questions that we'll sort through as we draft it. One is levels of applicability. Commercial rent solicitations, for example, a for-rent sign is definitively regulable because it's commercial speech and it's subject to much lower scrutiny. Um, ballot materials or um well in the intermediate stage will be online things. We have greater ability to regulate still commercial speech although there are certain federal protections for online speech and then at the highest level would be ballot materials for any development agreement that might be on a ballot.
The first amendment kicks in for core political speech but I think there we could look at the ability to tap into the requirement that most ballot materials they'll be truthful And not misleading and looking at that gap between affordability. So if the council directs us to move forward, we'll analyze how much can we go on that spectrum of communications and still stay within the First Amendment's bounds?
Thank you Matt. The motivation behind this is simply transparency and to allow the public to know what's going on with the numbers.
My question is... Matt maybe you answered it but I'm not sure How if when you asked, for example, you cited the Becker lawyer didn't know what the rent or the price of the housing would be. I mean that could be an honest answer because there can't possibly be specific figures in this ordinance because those figures could change the whole market. The whole world could change. You can't hold people to a specific figure The development, the houses may not be built for you know the whole process takes four years or I'm not understanding how
this works. As I understand that the ordinance wouldn't dictate a dollar amount in the ordinance instead it would dictate that rental solicitations and other documents state the rental rate at which units being proposed So the ordinance won't have dollar figures in it. It'll require advertising materials, advertising units for rent to state the rental rate and not just affordable rental but to state affordable rental X dollars per month whatever that figure is at that time of that document.
I feel like you just gave me a very contradictory reply. I'm saying that how can they possibly predict a dollar amount?
By the time they're renting a unit they have to know what they're renting it for
Yes, but they can't build without... We're saying that a developer cannot develop property until these questions are answered. Is that what we're saying?
No, this doesn't regulate land use. This regulates information. It's an informational... it's an ordinance regulating what is set in solicitations or what is set in ballot materials. I didn't understand this to be a land-use regulation.
So... Okay wait let me clarify. You're saying for example that the Bryant Street project cannot be built unless the developers specify the amount each unit...
That isn't what I said. That's not what I said. Okay, try again. What
did you say?
A future rental solicitation an advertisement room for rent if this ordinance was adopted as I understand is proposed has to state the rental rate
Yes, but I thought Betsy Mayer Sticks had a different...
There's a second piece to the ordinance that is proposed. Any materials speaking to a development project in support or opposed again subject to the limits on the First Amendment or ballot materials about a development project that's on a ballot would have to state in addition to affordable what that means in some numeric fashion. So we won't know, you're right, we won't know what rents are five ten years from now but at the time of the ballot materials being written we would know what rent is for that year so for example a ballot material could say a project is proposed with two affordable units at very low income deed restricted 55 years and for 2024 Very low income is X dollars per month. That can be stated as a true fact because we know for that year what it is per month.
Now, I would say for 2024 it's using round numbers $1,000 per month with the caveat also stated in there that that's only for that year and then the future years will be whatever it is when it comes in. That could be done too. Does that answer the question?
I'd like clarity on what Mayor Sticks, what you had in mind at what point does a developer have to disclose this information?
In the written material that is being, as a project is being proposed. And I'm looking, I'm not a lawyer and I'm looking forward to our city attorney's work on this, thank you Matt, to know exactly if this is very uncomplicated it's basically just asking for numbers so that the public can know actually what's being built because When it says 20 median units, that's still $3500 a month and that was the number I was looking to get from the developer's lawyer.
And I think that is super helpful for the public to understand a project. I understand what
you are saying. I have a lot of other comments but I will save them for later. So I'll
just ask a question that I think is getting at what Councilmember Francina is asking You know, if a project is very slow to reach fruition the developer would be able to amend his documents. So if he was proposing some type of rent early in the process and it got bogged down They'd be able to file new papers, and everything henceforth would be based upon new papers and new numbers.
And that's not the only factor. There are many factors. The whole economy is involved.
I think, right. But I think part of it is also for a project that proposes de-restricted affordable units the idea is that the developer would have to state up front they already have to state upfront what kind of...
Yes, yes. I follow.
It's fine. ...de-restricted affordable unit very low or moderate to require that to be converted into dollar figures as of that year?
It's actually quite simple. It just adding the dollar number. Okay can we move on to public comment? Yes. First we have Bill Miley and then Larry Steingold. OK, Larry Steingold.
3:12 – 3:2723 turns
You people are brilliant. Every layer of regulation that can put a stick in somebody's spokes to get anything done is not such a bad thing sometimes. If you want to stop things, you want to slow things down, you just add regulations. No problem. Truth in advertising, they have to put all the numbers out, all the math. Okay? Anybody who wants to rent anything, they have a complex that's 32 units. Rents are 1,200 to 3,200. Includes this, that and everything else.
So you want him or her—excuse me—anybody, the developer, the enemy, the people locally, whatever you want to call them. You want them to put their rent numbers in the development package, the exact numbers specifically $1,222.32 for this apartment and in this town when it takes a project 32 years to get anything done. Why? Because why not? It's a small town we like it this way Because you want to finesse the whole deal. But at some point it comes to fruition and you want him to come back, to get re-approved for the same project that he's been approved for because now he's got to get approved for the math because the $1,222 apartment is now $2,400?
Because of inflation? Because of one lane access? Because of you've done a great job marketing and the town is wonderful? I mean this is just another layer. Why? to put a stick in somebody developer spokes, because that's exactly what you're doing. So I can say keep up the good work because that's the motivation whether it's the motivation or not. That's the predictable result is another problem.
There are already enough problems. We don't have enough apartments here for people, they're taking apartments out of service. There are people who have four duplex and they're turning it into a two unit because they can get more and there's less tenants. You've got a duplex over in Golden West that one person was evicted now there were three units and he's getting more money so I mean we need more places But I mean, this is just another layer.
But again, be politically astute. If you want to correct things, generate more income. Make it nicer for the residents here. OK? Thank you. Thank you,
Larry. And I don't see that as an either or. We can do both. The motivation is simply transparency. Transparency
and truth in advertising. I understand. But the predictable result is just another approval People who aren't here because you guys may not be here in 10 years when the project does go into fruition and people go Yeah, they approved $1,200. How can that be? We're doubling it at the 2400 well
and just to Confirm with a city attorney. I mean we would update those clearly that doesn't
mean no approval
Well, and I think it's proposed this wouldn't be another step for approval would be a step for Advertising right?
Would it be automatic with it wouldn't even have to be approved
As I understand it, it's a requirement for the materials to follow not that the city is getting prior approval on written materials.
So for example if you said there are five low-income units you would include the rent?
It's just... You know what I'm saying and what I'm implying actually not what I am implying but what I am stating okay everybody has done a great job in this valley And I think it's wonderful, I just don't want you to kill the patient.
Thank you.
We'll do our best Any any comments online
Weston?
Mr. Miley's here
and we do have one mayor Oh now zero
Good evening, Bill Miley. I sent your council and city manager a long email where I commented on sections of the proposed ordinance. I took it apart. Affordable housing income guidelines are published every year by the state for all the counties of California. A new one was just published a couple of weeks ago. All federal and state affordable housing laws and funding frame their support in rules on households not paying more than 30%, as you probably know.
They also provide a chart showing rents for each of the five income categories. The mayor is concerned about the term affordable being misunderstood, people saying wow this is really great Expressing support for affordable housing in Ojai has not been a problem. She's led the opposition to the Becker development so far successfully. What about the five income levels?
Anyone who works in housing, especially affordable housing knows the levels. It's like a menu at a restaurant. Each item may be priced differently. The big difference is one's household income that drives the category. What about more lower income units, she said. Too often, she said, they're not offered as part of the project. Each project with deeded units are listed according to the five incomes.
The number of low and lower income units directly depends on the amount of money available to subsidize the lower income rent, to make up for difference in the cost of building and paying for it for a number of needed years. Do we need this information in an ordinance? I don't think so. Any developer will know exactly what rents can be charged and the income levels needed, the state and federal guidelines used. 55 years is usually the dated number of years.
Our planning department and commission do make clear when they do this up front with a developer. What about mixed housing? To require developers to show size of their market rate is something they'll do in marketing their product. Requiring an ordinance... probably is designed to imply there's something wrong with the size of the affordable units. In conclusion, much of this happens through our planning department and planning commission.
All affordable housing non-profit developers do this. There's no need to have a detailed somewhat oversight ordinance in our small city. Thanks. Thank you Bill. Any
comments online?
No raised hands on Zoom.
Okay we will move onto discussion. I think
as most of you know, I have now been looking for housing for 19 months. Even when I have six months rent in advance, trying to get a year rent in advance there are so many applicants the competition is so I just keep trying and the only way I'm going to find housing is to find housing that's not advertised yet. And so, and I've been looking at one place now for six seven months you know the owner hasn't decided what he's gonna do but he has promised me that when he decides if he rents he's gonna call me first So that has changed my perception because I am so acutely aware that there are, the apartments are affordable already. They're the low rent.
If I had known back in December of 2021 what I know now, I would have taken the house back for $4,000 a month because I've basically lost 19 months of income And if I had many people move out of Ojai, and I'm sure that when you start Looking at the cost of commuting, the two hours that people are commuting to work in Ojai. If you factor the time, the cost of the car, the wear and tear on a car, the gasoline, the cost of the air pollution, the cost in health when you start driving for two hours to work in Ojai or you're a worker waiting at the bus in the evening if you look you'll see them waiting and the cost to the school district from not having housing You cannot, we have three schools closing. We need housing for families.
It's related to this because you're making it more complicated and more difficult to have housing. I do not see...I agree with the statements made by Mr. Bill Miley and Larry Steingold, you know there are state and local regulations. We can educate the public about the terms with the meeting of the terms we can do that. We can have a handout a pamphlet that explains those terms But I'm just very, very concerned about the unintended consequences of another ordinance such as what I think that you're proposing. I am the first person who would love more low-income development and to do that we have to get through all this stuff and partner with non-profit organizations, and then we can have reasonable standards for development. Those are standards right City Attorney?
There are standards that the state is already dictating correct? A developer cannot... The Planning Commission is not going to... I've seen what the Planning Commission goes through. We've had projects on the... What's it? I want to call it the Gables. The Gables, the land there. There's been so many projects before the Planning Commission and you never see them again. You just don't see them because it's already so difficult. I do not want to make it more difficult. I want to have green building standards and the things that we already as a group agree we can control. I cannot see the Planning Commission Approving a project that the town would come out in full force to object to projects that don't have any consideration for affordable units.
I don't know if I'm making myself clear, but I think that when you talk about housing costs there are so many things that need to be factored in. It's not just the cost on paper, there's hidden costs, there's costs to the community especially to the schools. I am really worried that you're trying to stop a development that's in the wings
Well, I think that's once again conjecture and suspicion. All I want to do is provide some transparency for, please don't interrupt me, for our community to know how much rent is being charged. It's so simple, very simple. And I would imagine that most people would want I think it's important for our community to know the numbers. It is simple. Other comments?
I have a couple of comments. So, I had my concerns about what this was and what it meant but I am a little clearer focus tonight First of all, my first concern was that there would be some first amendment issues But I understand that our city attorney Has seen that yeah issue as well and that he believes it's something that he can tackle without Within the bounds of the law And then the other thing is that Council or Mayor Sticks has reminded me that during the Becker Development Agreement there were people really wanted, I mean there were a lot of people asking questions about these you know You know quote-unquote affordable housing units and there we had this body of individuals 33 different renters at Mallory Way who were Going to have to Potentially move into Units, and so it was very important to know Replacement units excuse me Was very important to know what those income levels were and I do remember that Not only you mayor sticks, but that there were many people from the public and there were even other council members who are kind of You know, struggling to understand what affordability level the units that are being proposed were going to be at so that they could assess how that was going to impact the people who were potentially being displaced.
So I think that if the intent as I understand from the mayor is The public would have a clearer understanding of what affordability meant in the context of a specific project, that it's something that I'm very willing to look at. City attorneys attempt to communicate something.
Yeah we're happy and as part of it will assess the bounds of the First Amendment and where the case law lies on
3:27 – 3:3314 turns
Can I ask a question? So what happens if we have these standards and the developer says that he cannot afford to build the project with whatever the required number of low, or you know whatever we require. What happens
then? First off this ordinance doesn't set affordability requirements This ordinance is proposed isn't an inclusionary housing ordinance that would set a minimum amount of affordability requirements. Existing law already sets that, the replacement housing ordinance and or density bonus law already dictates and builder's remedy doesn't apply in the city but if anybody tries it has certain affordability requirements Other laws set minimum affordability standards, not this proposal.
But to finish the puzzle, we haven't written an ordinance yet but the council I think could set up appropriate enforcement provisions. It would be difficult to have the enforcement provision on a business regulatory ordinance, it would be difficult to have it be that our project is denied if developer Violates ordinance since that I think it'd be injunctive relief and fines and other requirements about enforcing the truth in advertising to use the catchphrase
I'm not quite following. It just seems to me that instead of an ordinance you could just have a pamphlet that explains all this
Well, yes, and that doesn't that's not rent disclosure because that's there's no obligation to do that so Councilmember laying do you want to comment?
Yeah, I think I'm sharing some of Mayor Pro Tem Francina's questions about what kind of challenges and hurdles would developers have to go through. So I'm sharing some of your concerns and I'm also aware of the fact that That that transparency in these It's so important and especially as councilmember Whitman mentioned that the people who are being displaced from any kind of You know properties right now that they would want to know what the replacement costs would be so that they could budget accordingly or anyone who's you know moving into into town Hoping for workforce housing they could budget so I think there's like a practical Aspect of this that really does make sense for someone who's looking for a home and And so, um, I mean, I'm really torn between the two between the two.
I heard what both Mr. Miley and Larry said, and Bill sent that really thorough email today too which I appreciate. And so I would say that what we're Voting on tonight is just proceeding with creating, with doing additional. Yeah it's a draft and an analysis. And to me it feels like that would be an analysis in a draft would give us an opportunity to come back and review it and to make a more, a decision before moving forward so this wouldn't be like yes we're going to move forward with this. This is just the next step in the process.
Correct, it'd be a direction to draft an ordinance and an analysis of how it would work and defensibility to then be considered fully.
I would like to go ahead and put motion on the table to direct staff to draft an ordinance for consideration by the council that would require rental rate transparency.
I'll second.
Okay, roll call please Weston?
Roll-call vote 2–0 motion on the table to direct staff to draft an ordinance for consideration by the council that would require rental rate transparency. I'll · 2 under review
Show transcript
Okay, motion passes thank you very much all right let's move on to council member reports anybody want a report? Council Member Lange and I went to the Pride Walk on Sunday really incredible event great turnout it started 32 years ago with seven people and a dog There were hundreds of people
there. 230.
Wow! So it was a really beautiful moment of inclusion and diversity and love and peace, so let's keep going along those lines. And I would just like to encourage people to use those words because that will promote peace and love and connection and collaboration. Anything else to report? Fourth of July coming up? Paving on July 5th. Oh Anything
else to report I'm a little bit concerned because we did not Give staff direction that they should finish their unfinished projects before they start something new I think it's critical because for example the cannabis lounge issue was supposed to be tonight and I did not get on the agenda. I am really worried that we're setting the wrong priorities, I really am. I intended to say that before we finished with that last item. So what direction are you giving staff if we have unfinished business?
Well, let's wait till we get to the city manager's report any any more councilmember reports Lavender festival got great feedback on that. So thank you James and staff for working on that people were really happy with the size Anything else? Okay as City Manager support
3:33 – 3:4432 turns
Thank you, Mayor on July 11. We currently have scheduled for the for the July 11 Council meeting the approval of an interim city manager appointment and update on the recruitment process assuming that those go well And then we have the pavement management plan being brought to the council. That's been a priority item, just getting back to priorities that one has been on the list for about a year or so and so we are planning to bring that back to talk about now that we're paving this year's project what What the five-year plan is and what streets are being planned for when, which we've started to get questions and comments from the community about. So we want to get in front of those um and so we have those two on the July 11th agenda uh the tax options came up today that's on the list we're working on it that one um the challenge really at this point is it just uh the research because what we heard from council was wanting to come back with With really a full analysis of every tax option.
We, you know we could have thrown together a report for a couple of tax options, but if we're going to bring back several it's going to take some time to do the research and So we are prioritizing that but it's not, it won't be ready by July 11. And so right now that's what's on the schedule for July 11 at this time and then other than that, we mentioned the paving update Like I said, we're working with the contractor. We're looking at that week right after 4th of July but we will be posting, we've committed to post regular updates to the community on that on our website and our Facebook pages so watch there for all the latest news and updates on that as that proceeds.
And that's it for our report today.
Okay You're saying that the the two things on the July 11 agenda are their recruitment and pavement Those are the two items whatever happened to the cannabis lounge item
That's on the list as well. There's a list we gave out back in, was it January I think of 20 plus items that are on the list so those are on the list. We had talked at that point about having a prioritization discussion which I would highly recommend but we just haven't had that discussion yet as a council.
OK, so if we haven't had that discussion, could we maybe have that discussion on July 11th before we get into anything new?
Um we can so uh the challenge for us is that essentially gives us, is it three or four days to try to write a priority report now? So we can come up with you know we could just have basically like one page staff report and just have the list and go through that. We won't have time to put together a very thorough staff report on it but if that works we could do that on July 11th too.
Okay, so as it stands now there's just those two items. If there's going to be more I'd like to hear about it now. I don't want any more surprises. Not from you. I'm not saying that to you James. I am just saying are you going to try and make this item that you just brought to council a priority? Where are we? Where are we in the scheme of things?
I'll
have to defer to city attorney. I'm not gonna be able to draft an order than two days So, I don't think it'll be coming back on July 11th No
and just remind her that this I think has been bumped off the agenda three times so we've been work You know, that's a long time
We've been talking
And the taxes was never it was you know something that has never been
on there's the STR ordinance
That's never been on the agenda either. So these
are
all But but you can't just but the thing is for things to get on the agenda we there's got to be two council members and And we've got to talk about it now. So the thing is, you can't just send an email and say I want to do this. No,
no, no.
It's
gotta be... I'm sure that I brought up the SDR ordinance probably even at one of the early meetings and I'm certain that someone already seconded it.
Well, you don't know that. You can't just say that. Let's move on to future
agenda items.
The Council cannot right now prioritize items. You can add things to the agenda to be prioritized in the future. It sounds like what would make sense is a discussion regarding prioritization as itself, a future agenda item Something quick and dirty on July 11th might make sense.
Okay, and that would include the issues that were brought up tonight about taxing housing? I know that Council Member Whitman has brought that up several times.
That's on the list in the council can slaughtered and the priority is desired.
And i just was gonna ask James if you know if we could Microphone Oh, I'm sorry. I would be fine with the idea of breaking up some of those tax proposals in particular You know an increase in the sales tax My thought though is that for each One of these taxes, the more complicated thing than to approve a tax and at what rate is going to be how we're going to earmark. I noticed in your budget discussion that over the course Taxes that we've adopted percentages go to different so But I'm not I'm kind of thinking with sales tax if that was just a general fund type of boost Maybe we could go through that really, you know quickly and get it on the ballot and then use those real estate based taxes for those other earmarked types of of things. It's just a suggestion.
And that's where I'll come back at the future agenda item when we discuss the taxes.
Yeah, and I'm just watching James' facial expressions.
All of that is going to come back in the future not to be discussed
tonight in detail. The idea of if the request was just analysis of sales tax, that actually could be done fairly easy. That one is easy and that's pretty much It's routine essentially, you know from a technical standpoint anyway. The other ones the vacancy tax, the transfer tax and Amazon tax those are ones that are going to take substantial research because they're not common.
And I understood that and so that's why i'm saying You know, if you could break off the sales tax and get that to us first. I'm not saying necessarily January 11 but the sooner we can get that one maybe it'd be nice to make progress on putting more money into our coffers. And then I've got issue number 21 To add to your 20 sure if anybody else approves of this I thought that what Steve Colamei sent us in the comments. Yes was compelling Yeah, and I'm not saying I would vote for it, but I would say I'd like to see an analysis of where What that would do to?
Our investment portfolio if we were to divest in fossil fuel type of I don't even know. I don't really know To what extent we're invested in that but if we can get that analysis, I would I would like to see us not have our money in fossil fuels if we
do that and Mayor, that was brought up with the previous council. I thought we already were doing that. I don't
know. I think the Council adopted basically a statement that we would strive to do that which is Which fell short of saying we, you know, we would not invest in those things. It was basically a goal not a decision so the council could revisit that I think our brief analysis at that point and that's probably going to stop me soon but the brief analysis at that point was we were such a small city that we don't necessarily get to call the shots on our investments with the banks. The banks We're limited in how much freedom we have in our investments with the banks when they only give you so many options.
So at that time, we had said it would be pretty difficult but we can take another look at that.
The other key components there is we have a fair amount of money in the Lafe Investment Fund, which is a state-run investment fund where it's a take-it-or-leave-it fund. You put your money in it or you don't. You can't control what happens to the Lafe Fund. The second component is we also have to confer with the directly elected treasurer who controls the city's investments subject to the city's council adopted investment policy We can bring back an analysis of all of that for the council's consideration. My suggestion would be to consider having that come back after we see if the legislature adopts SB 252 or not.
We'll know the legislature's action by the end of September is the deadline, and the last deadline to adopt a bill or not adopt a bill is end of September. We might see if the state takes this task on for itself before we Come back. Not that we have to kowtow to the state, we can always go above and beyond but that might make sense in terms of if the state's going to do it it would create options for us to do it more easily I'd expect and that could be a future agenda item with the second
3:44 – 3:5026 turns
Any other future
yeah, I just I just wanted to ask James one question so next meeting July 11th is your last meeting and And and so I I would I just wanted to know from you What do you think are the most important things before we lose you? what are the most important things for us to finish up before you leave a
Thank you, yeah and I you know appointing a city manager is pretty important. That's why that one's been bumped to the front of the list um and then for me selfishly the pavement management plan i really did want to get done because I do think it's not popular to make that a priority but Legally, it has to be one of our priorities is keeping our streets maintained for the safety of the public. And then it just impacts so many things. So selfishly I was trying to rush that one because I'd really like to get the five year plan set to know that we're going to take care of our streets for the next five years, to a level we haven't done.
And so those were the two that I'm selfishly maybe trying to prioritize and then like we said, but I think the priority discussion is important. If we had had it six months ago, it might've helped us and I think it is important to have that. I don't know that we'll have the best priority setting discussion in a short time frame, but I think talking about that will help in the future. So I think those are three good items to bring back on the 11th.
Thank you and can I ask one follow-up question to that? In talking about our pavement management is it too much to include in that discussion to talk about speed limit change?
Yeah, we could do that but that's got to be a separate item. But you could request it to be
a speed
limit
item. Okay I would request that that be a separate item. I think the two are related.
Yeah, and I think Matt might remember this even better than I do. But I think we've done a report on that in the past. I think it was what is it? The 20 is plenty. We did. So yeah so we could kind of brush that off maybe and bring that back. I know there's been some changes in law that we can research in the meantime but we could try to bring that back as a priority
Yes. Don't we need a traffic engineer analysis and recommendation? No, no.
We'll prepare the analysis but state very again very briefly state law has reduced that in certain circumstances you don't necessarily need a traffic engineering analysis in certain circumstances we'll put that analysis together with some new law passed last year okay yeah I
was
gonna
it might be saying too much but I could say it in one sentence The traffic engineer is probably going to say that it's not justified, but that doesn't mean that the council couldn't say that they want to do it. And that's probably gonna be what the
analysis is. There are certain circumstances when state law now allows the council to override the engineers and still adopt a lower speed limit. Certain places, certain rules, certain regs will get you a memo on that.
We'll look at other cities that have done it. Any other items? Yeah, I have another item if I may. I don't know quite how to express this but in order to get grant money for services for you know supportive housing for the homeless we have to involve the city and so I propose that we create a committee For the purpose of finding out exactly what we need to do. So before we go to staff, that this would be a city-sanctioned temporary committee so that we can bring back our findings and have staff.
Somehow we have to involve staff in order to get grant money from the council.
So we would have to vote on making a committee, but we could put that on the agenda to
discuss. I would like that too. I will second that.
I would like to see us send it to staff for recommendations about how we address housing or homelessness. What are our options as opposed to sending it to a committee?
Well, we can prepare I'm trying to save staff time because we have spent many hours Investigating with dignity moves in Santa Barbara. We've spoken with The woman in Santa Paula whose name I I know You know her name Anyway, we've spoken with people who've done successful Ruth Miller She's here Santa Paula, you know the No, I don't know why. Marsha? Is it Marsha Oak? You know her name. She's always in the newspaper.
But I'm saying that we've done a lot of outreach and so maybe we could simply work with staff but staff doesn't need to start from scratch because we had a three-hour workshop on this
There's a balance between saving staff time and bypassing staff that we need to be. I mean, my personal view is that I would want staff Involved
That's that's the whole point we want staff to be involved so then we can go to Matt Levere and tell him We've done this groundwork, and what's the next step to apply for grants? So
so the council could consider direct staff to take on homelessness response And unhoused services as an additional task. That'd be a future council agenda item
Yeah, I like to get it on the agenda yeah
So with the second it would be put on the
list. I was trying not to say anything but I can't help it
3:50 – 3:5611 turns
I would say, and I'm trying to choose my words carefully. It's interesting to me that the county is asking the city to come up with a plan to address homelessness for the valley. That seems very strange and backwards to me. And I guess my inclination would be to reach out to the county and find out what their plan is and how Ojai can participate in that but there's always Promise of money that's out there.
And I think we've talked about money that's out there dozens of times and I don't, we never get the check that you know that is promised so i would be hesitant to volunteer to take on responsibility for for that for the valley without any funding or any resources to do that and then to commit staff time to do So I think there is more conversation that needs to be had.
I'd also say it is the chicken or the egg conversation because if you're asking staff what to do, there's no direction yet from Council of even what Direction we want to go in. Are we talking, you know, I think the project that I know that they've heard there's a committee that's working on this. And if you ask staff right now what the city can do, I don't know that that would be the response. It may be partner with help of Ojai on programming for example. So if you asked staff to work on it we need some direction on what exactly
the council wants
us to work on. What direction to provide would be that future council agenda item? We're gonna cut that one off there. You've heard the City Manager's comment regarding the issue. Council would need to provide direction for staff to do anything at a future meeting
Okay, I'll try to get clarity from Matt LeVere exactly what he is asking for.
And I do need to bring up one more future agenda item and this is in response to the VC Star article and the quotation from Deputy District Attorney Wold because I feel like he did not understand our resolution And I think that we need to rescind it. He said in the VC Star, the City Council met those requirements by acknowledging the violations, pledging to not repeat the violations and pledging an unconditional commitment to adhere to the Brown Act going forward. The problem with this statement is that there is no violation to repeat.
So, to me that didn't make any sense and our Berkeley Brown Act professor Ann Revell concurred at our workshop. She was very clear about the facts so just to be clear the resolution says that the City Council did not violate the Brown Act but then I don't understand how Deputy DA Wold misinterprets our resolution But that is evident in the quote in the VC star and this hurts the council's reputation. This hurts the city's reputation so I just wanted to bring that up because I Don't see how we can I?
Think we need to rescind it
So that considered the same motion, so I guess as mayor you don't need my support but you have my support That we need to address the issue. I think I did talk to Matt about this issue and I think he'll want to weigh in on ways to approach what Tony D.A. Wall has stated, and I do agree that we need to rebut his statement as what we've agreed
The council can consider that at a future meeting. My advice is to let the past lie. The DA has accepted the city's prior action as a commitment, that prevents him from suing the city over these issues if we rescind the commitment then that creates the possibility of further lawsuits depending on what happens in the future But none of that is on tonight's agenda. So the mayor can put it on the agenda, Mayor and Council Member Whitman can put it on the agenda.
I would ask future agenda item there it is and then it's up to the council but I would ask no further comment on it because it's not on tonight's agenda very much
so. I think it leaves our options open and if we decide in the meantime the most expedient way is to let it lie then we can do that We'll also be able to discuss it if we get it on the agenda.
Okay? I'm not in favor of putting it on the agenda. We talked all night about listening to our city attorney. I mean, he did. Advice is neat. Let it
lie. I agree with your advice. People are going to forget that article if they even read it.
Well, and I think it's also important to remember that 70% of articles in syndicated papers come from a press release. So I'm curious where you're the source of that but we'll never know anyway Anyway, thank you all. We're finished. Thank you all thanks James for being there virtually and everyone And thank you. Thank You chief Newman firm hanging in there with us appreciate not so busy tonight.
We're adjourned