City Council — 2023-09-12

Call to order. Could we have the roll call, please, Carl?

There we go. This is what it looks like when you prepare your papers, get a phone call and then run out the door without them. So first of all I wanted to recognize a commissioner that recently resigned and retired. To go off and further build her business, that's booming. Cindy Convery was a Historic Preservation Commissioner for seven-and-a-half years since March 22nd 2016 and for three out of my five years as Commission Chair she was my Vice Chair and I leaned on her heavily so we appreciate her time Since I last spoke in the priorities meeting, I mentioned the different commissions that had been impacted by not being able to supplement or to reappoint their commissioners.

I stand before you as one of those that became one of the groups on that line. Not a fun place for me to be. And so last Thursday, Mara and I had worked together closely. Got our agenda set for a big agenda set for September 14th. Had all these different controversial non-controversial fun kind of things like Ojai High Day. And yes the jail will still be open and you may have to walk through an empty park to get to us but I'll be running around with my jail suit with the big sign drawing people to the back. So just commercial for that.

So last Thursday we did that, the agenda actually got published somewhere around 12 something. I remember looking at it and I know Bill Miley accessed it because he sent me a congratulatory note saying well you've reached the top what are you going to do now? And then Cindy Convery sent an email I guess to Wesley he relayed that tomorrow and Morris called me and said Cindy Convery has resigned and You can no longer have a meeting on Thursday So the things that we were going to talk about there is currently a conflict a little bit of a conflict That we're trying to nip in the bud going on between the downtown historic district project and the sites of merit project there's a little bit of an overlap, and when there's an overlap on any project rumors start going around.

So we were going to discuss that, and we were gonna get that rumor settled. We were gonna be talking about the annual awards. We need to get them cut down to what's gonna be presented to you. Not sure when you'll get that. Ojai Day assignments because that's what we do in September Just a myriad of things that are important to take place, but now we are dead in the water. And I reminded Mara when she said that this is based on an interpretation of the code that I disagree with so I'm gonna go all two generations below me when I talk in church I have all these papers and then youth comes up next to me and they whip out their phones and I'm like I don't know how they do that So in section 4-8.03 Historic Preservation Commission, it says there is hereby established a city historic preservation commission consisting of five members.

Each council member shall appoint one commissioner ratified by the approval of a majority of the full council. Well, it is preferred that all members of the commission have primary residence and be domiciled within the city. A minimum of three members of the commission must have primary residence and be domiciled in the city. So if you take the second line and the third line, it basically says that each commission is to have five commissioners. And of those five commissioners, well they would hope to have five commissioners from the City of Ojai I agree with that, but to have on each five member commission to have three of those five as city residents. Nowhere in those first three sentences does it say that if you don't have three residents, you cannot meet.

So currently we have four commissioners, two residents, two non-residents and we're dead in the water because of that interpretation. And I know Council Member Lange can relate to me because I remember her saying something when we were getting to know each other and I said what? No! So that is us, like other commissions. That's stopping us dead in the water and so again my priority was that and I know I'm talking at a great conversation today that thoughts are being generated and that's there but again we're not meeting in September hoping to meet in October To try to help that out, I have got in somewhat recruitment mode. The nice thing is that when we were recruiting for another HBC Commission member earlier this year, Council Member Lange interviewed a couple different people.

We ended up choosing, I think Rick Basacci was at, Rick's a resident. There was another woman who also interviewed for that and I know because Rachel shared that with me, and I had the opportunity to talk to her. So I called her today to see if she was still interested. She said she is indeed interested and shared some of the things that she's been doing throughout the years.

And she suggested another person, a former member of the commission that we might want to do. So again, we're kind of trying to get ready once the council decides on how we're going to do that. I will put my pitch in for on the interviewing. I think having the commission chair is key because in anything and again this goes with the conversation we had. The commission chair is the person that's there that knows where the strengths and the weaknesses are because they've sat with these individuals in my case for many years so We at the HPC are happy to do our responsibilities. Again, we have a controversy that's brewing that we would've resolved this next Thursday. Mara had worked very hard to have the explanations available to everyone on what exactly is a site of merit.

That's the new thing that's kind of arisen. We have a little overlap between the Downtown Historic District and the Sites of Merit, and the problem is that there's a nasty rumor going around that the reason we did that was so if since we lost the Downtown Historic District which I said no we didn't then we could just fall back to the Sites of Merit. They're two different projects. There's not an overlap but looking at it today after a conversation I had I can see why people would think that. So thank you very much.

Thank you, Brian, for your update and for your service. Much appreciated.

May I ask a question? So we're going to resolve this at the end of the... Can you address it? Because it's a concern. I think there are two or three other

commissions. There are a couple of issues there, and my intention right now is to put the draft commission ordinance on the next agenda. As you saw with what I wrote up during the priorities exercise that draft includes some provisions that you may or may not be in favor of. I assume the draft is based on input from the council? Right,

people may have changed their assessment

in a lot

of recent events.

You're all allowed to change your mind yes but we're...I want to put it on your agenda and get it addressed and I believe that one of the provisions there that it calls for is resolving the resident non-resident issue by having a maximum of one non-resident on the fives and two on the sevens but no longer having that play into the determination of quorum so that we won't have that issue anymore in the future. There may be a grandfathered period when you have to non-residents on a five But I think you're better off to just go ahead and allow the meetings to happen.

If we didn't trust these people, they wouldn't be on the commission in the first place. So hopefully we can get that resolved at the next meeting. The advertisements have already been put out, been posted for the openings that we have right now. It's time for people to have their friends that they think would be good commissioners to be aware that it's open and it's a good time for people to put in their applications. How they get nominated will be up to whether or how the council adopts the ordinance that you'll be reviewing, but we'll try to put that on the next meeting agenda because we're really stuck right now.

So I have a question. It looks to me like the Planning Commission rules specify that a quorum needs to include three residents, but the HPC ordinance does not actually specify that although it does say that the preferences for city residents and there needs to be three but quorum isn't specifically referenced.

So two points there. One, the Planning Commission's requirement is not that the quorum be three residents, it's that it not be more non-residents than residents.

Okay.

So two residents and two non-residents is okay. Two residents and one non-resident is okay but two non residents and one resident is not okay so that's the Planning Commission rule. The HBC does not have that language in its quorum section 4803. However, it instead states that a minimum of three members of the commission must have primary residence and be domiciled within the city. And my advice to the council and the city is that that is a compositional requirement. If you have a commission composed without three residents then the commission cannot meet because its composition does not meet that standard.

Council can obviously change that. It's my advice to council. Council can change it. On the agenda, which it's not on tonight's

agenda. Point of privilege I was just going to say we're having a discussion about something that is not on the agenda and we might want to bring that in just a bit

So what I would suggest as a last comment on that In addition or instead of, or in addition to as applicable the various rejiggering of all the commission structures under the current ordinance appointing to the vacancies will solve the problem as well if residents are appointed. So for the various commissions that are similarly situated so in that regard as well take a look at the information from the clerk's office regarding the vacancies and everybody who is interested should apply.

Thank you. Thanks, Matt. Thanks, Mark. All right we will move on to public communication and just a reminder to the public these are items not on the agenda and because they're not on the agenda we cannot discuss them. We appreciate your viewpoint and participation and we can agendize for future. And public comments are three minutes at the end of three minutes. You'll hear a chime and in the spirit of equity Please stop talking when the chime sounds there's been a request to state your name and Your address whether or not you live in town or not in the city or not, of course, you don't have to do that So we will begin with Ron Solarsano from the library Jessica McCrea and then Rachel Hunt

All right. Thank you so much, members of council. My name is Ron Solorzano. I am the regional librarian for the Ojai Valley. Tonight, I just wanted to give you an update on a special program that's being put on by the Ventura County Library as a whole and that is something you may already be aware of. That is the one county, one book community reading program that we put on every year for the last... Oh gosh! This is maybe the sixth year, I think One County, One Book aims to unite the Ventura County community around a common narrative spreading interest in and facilitating discussions about the selected book.

This year's selection is Solito by Javier Zamora. Solito is Zamora's memoir of his migration from El Salvador to the United States at the age of nine From the official description of the book, quote, Solito not only provides an immediate and intimate account of a treacherous and near impossible journey but also the miraculous kindness and love delivered at the most unexpected moments. Solito is Javier's story but it's also the story of millions of others who had no choice but to leave home end quote.

So I want to add, I think I mentioned some of this last time but I want to add that on Wednesday September 20th we are inviting the public to join us at the Ojai Library for a discussion of Osito at 6 p.m. Library staff will facilitate providing questions and helping moderate with the goal of hearing how the text affected those present what they may have learned and how it made them feel The next day, California Lutheran University is going to present a faculty panel discussion relating to the themes of Solito.

This event is gonna take place in Cal Lutherans Lundering Event Center at 7 p.m., on Thursday, September 21st. The panel of professors will include Dr. Julia Fogg, Dr. Jamshid Demui and Dr. Jose Alfredo Torres who will talk about border crossings, the criminalization of immigration and the economic impact of immigrants in Ventura County. Finally, the One County, One Book capstone event, the Ventura County Celebration of Books will take place on September 30th which is a Saturday on the campus of CSU Channel Islands. It's going to include an author talk featuring Zamora at 2 p.m..

The Ventura County Library Foundation is also hosting an author reception prior to the talk during which attendees will enjoy lunch, a complimentary paperback copy of Solito and a book signing with the author. The author talk is free and open to the public. If you're interested in buying tickets for the reception, those can be purchased for $75 each at www.vclibraryfoundation.org.

And that's all I have for the moment. Thank you so much for your time. Hope you have a wonderful evening. Thank you, Ron.

What was the name of the book again?

The book is called Solito, S-O-L-I-T-O, and the author is Javier Zamora.

Next we have Jessica McCrea, then Rachel Hunt and then Janine.

Hi, I'm Jessica McCray. I am a resident of the Ojai Valley. I just wanted to make a couple of suggestions for the council to consider. I want to thank you for having the priorities meeting to set some priorities to go through and work on diligently. And I know that number one priority was the campus and housed and what we're going to do about that. And what I'd like to suggest is we're, I know for me it's a very big issue and I'm sure there is for a lot of others if maybe we can put that on the next agenda. To talk about what is the plan? What's the timeline? What are we gonna do about the most immediate issue about getting the community garden back to the citizens of Ojai so that they can go in and clean up and enjoy the park again. Where we're going to offer space for those in a temporary capacity.

And then the other suggestion is as we look for the longer term solutions for shelters, transitional housing, low income housing that we engage with the county. This is not a city of Ojai four mile wide problem. This is an Ojai Valley problem that we all need to address and I'm hoping that Mark LaVere is in those discussions and you are very closely tied to working with him to come up with solutions.

And if not, please do. What I'd like to see is transparency on what's going on and what's the plans and what's happening so that we know things are moving forward. that the council is doing their job and they're working diligently on it, but it's trust and verify. I have not seen any movement over there. I have not heard about any plans. And that might just be my ignorance on where to find that information.

But if there's a way we can communicate with the community at large on ways of what's happening and how we can get involved because I'm sure there's lots of us that would love to get involved to help solve and come up with solutions So that's it. All I had was just a couple suggestions Thanks,

thank you very much Jessica and just so you know there is a task force that is working on solutions for our unhoused population, so There will be reports When when the time comes we'll definitely let you know and in terms of the agenda I Mr. City

Manager? I'm actually in the process of trying to set up a meeting with the county, but it's not until the 25th and our next meeting is on the 26th so I don't think I can maybe give an update on what I'm thinking but there's...I'm trying to get the follow-up work plan done and what I'm thinking right now is to bring it in pieces starting with the item that had five dots and then I followed by the item with four and then working on down rather than waiting until I've written the whole thing. And that might take too long so I think I'll start bringing in pieces to the council when that would be the first one that I probably bring in.

Great thank you, thank you next we have Rachel Hunt then Janine then Robin Gerber

Hi can you hear me. It's good. Yeah. So I'm Rachel Hunt. I was born and raised here in Ojai. And I'm here to also speak on the issue of homelessness here. I have a huge heart for this matter considering I was homeless here at 16 and living in the gazebo Blessed enough to meet some compassionate people who gave me some opportunities so I could become a nanny and someone co-sign on my house and be able to stay here in my hometown.

But since then throughout my life, I've had a heart with connecting with our homeless demographic here and doing outreach with them. And as everybody knows it's increased and it's increasing exponentially really fast. Just yesterday I was called by a new woman who is going So, first of all I'd like to invite the community or anybody here to be hands-on and go into the garden and get to know these people.

They are a part of our community they're no separate than us. I used to live right across actually across from the community garden and since I was a kid it's been one of my favorite places Well, we can all still go enjoy it. We can bring a trash bag and meet these people and go over there so that's one option but for long-term stability of course and to keep the compartmentalization of beautiful gardens and stuff To put some type of low income housing or some type of incentive maybe out there For people who live here to take in people and co-house with people I don't know what the solution is all I know is It's becoming a burden to everyone and I don't know what to do. I'm bringing people to my house or partnering them with other people in the community so they can weekly shower My good friend here, Barbara Kafka who's a deaf woman in town I'm sure you've now known about.

She was originally in the gazebo. I'm the one with the group of people who we all started moving them to the garden because people were upset with her being there. There is nowhere else for these people to go even outside if we pass the buck to the county and stuff. That shouldn't really even have to happen. There's no reason why people who are from a community and given the community should be displaced I mean we have people always going on about refugees in other countries and helping them What about refugees that are happening right here?

So like I said, I don't know what the answer is. I was asked by people to come and speak on this issue through my organization that is a grassroots movement called Beloved Ojai, where we help cultivate compassionate creative communities. So that's what I'm trying to do if you guys can think of a way I can help anymore let me know but I would say like definitely bathrooms need to be put over there right away some type of more porta potties maybe like portable sinks that you see at fairs storage chests and stuff because squirrels are starting to attack the tents so that's the reality of it thank you very much

Thank You Rachel Next we have Janine and then Robin Gerber.

Hello, good evening. First time speaker, long-time watcher. Okay, you guys moved ahead of Bravo Housewives. Right? I don't know if you want to take that as a compliment but I'm going to put it out there the last year I have been watching and I am okay sorry Eastside homeowner live here in Ojai Rachel, I'm in your district. I want to take it back a year ago because I don't think we've had closure, we've had any transparency. I know that word is used a lot here but about that Brown Act violation at one meeting when you guys all became council together something happened in that meeting that wasn't okay Somebody had courage to stand up and say, no that's not OK.

Now the way that it was reported fine maybe that was wrong but all of you then violated the Brown Act violation why is only one person getting sued? And let's take it back one step further. Why was that conversation brought up? Why was there a discourse in that meeting? Because something was a recommendation from the opposing council that is suing the City of Ojai.

You guys are the City of Ojai, right? You represent us. Why would you get a recommendation from the enemy? And who is simply Ojai? Simply sue Ojai, because that's all they're doing. That's ridiculous. They say they're helping Ojai. All I see them doing is suing us. And who are they? Who's Leslie Hess? Who's Tom Francis? Who is Sabrina Venskis? Betsy, you haven't answered these questions.

Why did you forward 44 pages of emails to Leslie Hess about the Becker development? Why did you do that? For what reason? I know they were part of your campaign group, right? That's a little weird. I don't have any ties with anybody here. I don't have any associations, I'm not in any cliques. First time speaker, long time watcher. Bravo should do the real city, the Real City Council of Ojai.

So Bravo if you're listening I'm ready to do the pilot let's go I'll get my money but we can do better and I will be back because three minutes isn't long enough for everything this last year I have to say to this council. Next we have

Robin Gerber.

Hi, I'm Robin Gerber. I live in the city. In my district. Sorry? In my district. And Susan's on my street thankfully and also thankfully most voters respect the idea of representative government meaning we voted for you and trust that you'll set personal feelings aside and represent our town in your district with competence and respect for each other That's not what we've seen.

It is vindictive and unnecessary, Mr. Whitman to choose to submit a declaration in a frivolous lawsuit against your colleague offering nothing but opinion and some of that bordering on libel. The judge did not look kindly on it and it did not help build the spirit of cooperation this council so desperately needs It's also vindictive, Mr. Whitman, to not only remove a volunteer commissioner who had the full support of his chairman but also bar that commissioner from holding any other city position.

We're a small town. We need our volunteers. We need them to be respected and encouraged, not dumped on by those we look to for leadership. Now we also have the likes of Leslie Hess who chooses to spend her evidently considerable wealth on LA lawyers rather than the needs we just heard about, at least bathrooms for the people behind City Hall. And we also have Tom Francis, the whole Simply Ojai crew who's shown their utter disrespect for this council and previous councils as they try to govern by lawsuits and threats of lawsuits But your job, all of you, is to govern as professional lawmakers.

Your job is to put your ego and personal feelings aside. I've said this before. Study the issues. Listen to the public. Listen in these meetings. Vote what your intellect and your heart tell you to. If you want to get back at someone, if you're angry at one of your colleagues or even disgusted, leave it at home. In this chamber and in public, you are a representative of our government.

Give that role the respect it deserves. You asked for this job when you ran for office, when you ran for this council. So do your job or leave so we can find someone who will build bridges rather than rip them down. Thank you.

Thank you, Robin. We have one more public comment, Carl? Nora Harold.

Bye Leslie! Nora Harold. I live in Miners Oaks. I'm here, yeah it is disrespectful but whatever. For Leslie to get up and leave because I came up here actually to thank every single one of you for doing this. This is not easy and I've seen every single one of you be attacked. Every one of you. And tonight I heard citizens be attacked And they're being attacked with pieces of information, pieces that paint a picture of disinformation.

You know, we hear the word transparency a lot. There's transparent Ojai and other things that are happening and I think part of the issue is we got to clear up the communication however that can happen. However now I want to speak to you and for Leslie Hess because she's not here to speak for herself tonight Leslie Hess came up a couple of meetings ago. You guys have that in the record. She defined who Simply Ojai was, she defined her position with Simply Ojai and the fact that her non-for profit does not work politically. I just want to say that publicly because I was disturbed to once again hear somebody Who really loves the valley, which I think you all do. I mean, I know you do. Why the hell else would you put yourselves through this? Right?

Why would you do this if you didn't have love for the place that we all live? So to hear a community member be dragged through the mud, that hurt. To hear Tom Francis be dragged through the mud, that hurt. To hear Andy being dragged through the mud hurts. Sousa your whole housing issue to here to watch you be dragged through the mud that hurts. Betsy you dragged through the mud that hurts. Rachel you dragged through the mud that hurts Leslie watching you get dragged through the mud hurts as well it's a giant...

You don't believe me do you?

It's not up to me to believe you or not it's up to me to listen to you

Yes but your face says you don't and I'm here really. You can't

read my face Nora, I'm sorry.

Okay you're right and I addressed you yep you're absolutely right I can yes anyway whatever we need healing we freaking need healing badly and that's really been my intention in showing up at the meetings and I am going to continue to come and be as much of a force of healing as I can be here thanks

Thank you, Nora. Any comments online? Carl?

All right attendees on Zoom if you'd like to make a comment on a non-agendized item please raise your hand Last call attendees on zoom. If you'd like to make a comment on a non agendized item, please raise your hand There's no comments on zoom

Okay. Thank you, Carl. All right we will move on to the consent calendar. Is there a motion to approve? We do have one public comment.

I'll make a motion to approve but I would like to pull item D on the cannabis.

And the public comment is on item D also so if we can go ahead and approve everything

else. Yes, I'll second it.

Okay. Motion to approve everything other than D. I made the motion, she seconded it? All in favor? All in favor? Aye. Alright we have one public comment on D, Bill Miley.

Good evening. The record for me is Bill Miley. This has to do with the cannabis lounges. I like the proposed zoning, I'd like the option for a full restaurant food service in addition to infused food. I do suggest though that the hours of operation be reconsidered. Alcohol serving restaurants can stay open later than 10 p.m., if they choose I would suggest we give Long that option also.

To set an arbitrary time of, I believe 10 p.m., seems very random. It seems that for the best operation and good business a time equal to alcohol closing be considered. Thank you.

Thank you Bill. Any comments online Carl for consent calendar?

I was going to comment on D.

Are there any comments on Zoom on any consent calendar items? Again, if there's any comments on Zoom on the consent calendar items which are the warrants minutes and the cannabis ordinance

Okay, Mayor Pro

Tem. So I want to ask a question Interim City Manager Mark Scott It was my understanding that the hours of operation were going to be left up to your discretion And I couldn't find specifically in the ordinance anything about the hours but on page 1 3 it says That lounges must close no later than 10 p.m., subject to rules and regulations developed by the city manager, so that's not written in stone or is this? This is not part of the ordinance

correct?

So as I read that one the ordinance in subsection G on page 111 allows the manager to set operating regulations which would include hours of operations. As we understood the motion is approved by the council That delegation of authority was inherent in the ordinance with the cabining no later than 10 p.m.. The council could change that if the council so desired, either leave it up to the manager as the manager sees fit or adjust that cabining to match liquor which is 2 a.m., or pick something else.

Well, you know I didn't even know that liquor was 2 a.m.. Downtown always seems to be dead by 11 o'clock.

Yeah,

I

don't know if anything actually stays open that late but state law allows sale of alcohol until 2 a m.

I happen to see Chelsea at Rainbow Bridge and she's asked that there be some flexibility so that patrons don't have to leave right at 10 if they're still eating they can finish their food you know Let's say, it could even be seasonal because in the summer gets so hot and in the winter people are going to go home sooner. But let's say at least 11 p.m., is that acceptable to the council

or? Council Member Rule.

I was just going to say, I was unaware that we had put a time certain on this. I thought that we had not put a time certain leaving that up to the discretion and in the conversation about the city manager. I don't actually remember that and I would support actually taking that out and letting the city manager or whomever is going to negotiate with operating procedures are.

To deal with that so that's my remembrance but you know obviously if it's here I could have remembered that incorrectly.

I'm okay either way. There's a strategy in setting a time limit and then having people apply for an exception beyond that time limit as opposed to just leaving time limit out altogether because it gives you more of a leverage to negotiate something when when you have to do something to merit going later than, as opposed to something where It's wide open from the beginning that so there's there's a little bit of a strategy in that I'm not really uncomfortable either way. I'm Comfortable what the council decides to do?

Thank you Councilmember yeah

I also thought that our decision in the meeting was that the city manager was going to make decisions about operational details and would adjust the time that business closed based upon his experience. I have a question for, I think for Matt. Maybe it's for Mark but there was a comment in the public comments. I don't know if it was just a question for us or if it was a proposal, but it said shouldn't we have these lounges operate under a CUP?

And of course there's no analysis of how the CUP process would work within the context of these lounges. If either of you had any thought about that, I'm interested in that idea.

It's certainly an option. The present structure does not use CUPs, which is a function of the original genesis of the Cannabis Ordinance Program back in 2016, which was to move it fast under then-Council's direction. Hence, it was directed to be solely outside of the land use process, outside of the Planning Commission process, controlled solely by the Council and the City Manager.

That was the rationale at the time. It made sense for the reasons at the time. Obviously, it can be changed. Quick pro con, if you have it as a CUP that runs with the land under existing state law so there's less control. There's less of an ability—it's harder to pull it back if there's a problem. It's structured. The cannabis permits are expressly not running with the land. They're expressly not a property right. They're more easily revocable if we have problems. Not that we've had problems. The dispensaries have been very good.

But if a problem were to develop in the future, we've structured the cannabis permits to be more easily revocable in part to retain that greater level of control. Whether or not to retain that greater level of control is very much a council choice.

And then as it is now, or at least you know proposed with the city manager managing what would he have that authority for revocation as a as would be there if we went through a CUP process?

If we went through a CUP process, revocation would be the planning commission. Subject to appeal to the council. Right now, the manager would have the power to revoke subject to appeal to the council. It's always subject to appeal to the council in the end.

And we could always go do a CUP program at some later date if that's what it turned out to be not as manageable by the city manager as we thought.

Exactly. It's not, there is no requirement to do it now. The council could direct studying of that option further and come back with a report or consider how the Long go for six months and if they are working or not working assess further.

At this point, leave it in the capable of hands of our city manager. I'm there too, yes. Mayor Pro Tempore?

Do I need to make a motion that we strike the sentence regarding the time?

That sentence is in the staff report so there's no need to strike it. It would be a motion to introduce the ordinance as drafted with express direction that the manager can set the hours as the manager sees fit.

OK well I would still feel better if we change that 10 o'clock either strike it or change it to 11 just because it's just. It's just there. Yeah why do I have it there if it's not applicable?

Well, it's in the staff report not on the ordinance. But you can give express direction that the manager can set hours at such time as a manager may desire.

Yeah and City Manager will do some research into what seems appropriate.

The ordinance doesn't specify a time? That was my

question I just wanted to make sure and that was also the concern of Chelsea one of the owners yeah

okay Council Member Rule I beg recollection once again but as I recall we we the only time we we mentioned was it would not. They would not close before ten PM so that that would not be at the discretion of the city manager to say we're going to close it at eight so there was there was a floor where

All right, we will move on to the public hearing I Can't make the motion We made a motion to Just item we already approved a through C. Okay. I think I made the most

just consent

or

not. I think the motion is to The motion will be to introduce the ordinance with additional direction to the city manager, set the hours of operations as he sees fit with closure not earlier than 10 p.m..

Okay. So you made the motion?

Can we say that at 11 o'clock? Does the council have a problem with that, just so it's

clear? I actually do because I really think we need to put a little research into this and see what's appropriate and talk to people who are around there. You know, I know they're not a lot of residences but I think I have total confidence in our city manager

OK so long as anyone listening that is concerned, it's clear that if someone is eating dinner they don't have to leave the premises before 10 o'clock. All right so what was needed a second?

Do you want to restate the motion?

Yeah.

Mayor Pro Tem, do we need

that? It sounds like the motion that you want... You would want to be conservative with the time. I'm fine with that so long as it's understood that that's not part of the ordinance. That's still part of the city manager's discretion.

Right, that's captured in subsection G. So the motion