City Council — 2024-11-26

Everyone call to order. We have a quorum, could we please have the roll call?

yes mayor thank you welcome community

commission reports so we will move on to public communication and just a reminder to everyone this is the time for members of the public to address the City Council on items of business that are not on the agenda. We can agendize these items for the future and we appreciate your input and participation And we value your enthusiasm, please refrain from making side comments though and clapping.

Please help model civility and respect even when we disagree and make it about policy and not personality. So we'll begin with Randy Haney then Mike Donahue and then Larry Steingold.

Good evening council I don't want to waste my My minutes on that last discussion, but if you voted on something in a closed session and why didn't you report out the vote? But that's for another day. So first of all I wanted to thank you all for the meeting last week 19th obviously we heard from the community and And as a direct result of that, I guess we had a Recreation and Parks Director resign.

So first I want to thank you guys for having the meeting. I'd like to thank the community for showing up and voicing their opinion. I would like to thank Matt Davis for making the right decision. But we've still got a problem in that Recreational Parks Department That gentleman created a hostile work environment and he created a hostile recreation environment.

I know that he's resigned, I think it's going to be on February 15th is his last day. I'd like to maybe see the city manager put him onto administrative leave let him burn up his accrued sick time, his accrued vacation time and pay him to stay home I don't believe we need him on the recreation center for the next two months and 15 days. That's just my opinion.

Along those lines, I think we need to start healing. We need to allow the recreation staff who's been harmed, personally harmed and the parents group that have been harmed. They've been liable in my opinion again only and I think the way to do that would be while we remove Mr. Davis from the facility that we appoint an interim Director, and I would recommend Vicki Hollingsworth.

Someone who's highly respected in the community someone that's highly respected in the Recreation and Parks Department. Someone that has 30 plus years of experience and I think can help heal that department. And more importantly is as we give the city manager time to select a new director, you can fulfill your obligation as a council and get the Recreation and Parks Commission up and running.

We can take this thing that happened to our community and put it behind us One other thing I'd like to speak to real quick is there's a couple of things on the agenda that I'm not going to stay for, but you all received your council package on protocol. Your protocols handbook. I'm not sure if any of you have really read the handbook and read between the lines, but I think the most important thing it says is do no harm.

So tonight what's on the agenda that's before you? I suggest highly suggest that you do no harm.

Thank you, Randy. Next we have Mike Donahue then Larry Steingall then Robin Gerber.

Good evening. First I want to say thank you for your service and I also want to say that I have some news. It's very difficult to find consensus in Ojai and I have It's, sometimes I almost think impossible to find consensus. But I went out to some neighbors recently and I asked them to approve a message. And interesting enough in just a short period of time like three days, a quick little survey no one said no 100% not a single person said no to this message that I sent you guys yesterday.

Matter of fact about 100 of them, 100 citizens said yes, I endorse this message And this message is about the homeless. Homeless Housing Project, also known as Cabin Village. And in the message that you guys will see and I've sent it all to you, I know at least one of you have read it is some interesting information, some facts, some data, some numbers, some photos and those hundred citizens are concerned and they have three major concerns like I do.

One is a safety issue Another is a liability issue, and a third is a quality of life issue. And in there you'll see Dan Mendoza's data of over 150 incidents this year alone where service has been provided to our tent city including things like guns discharged These are his reports from authorities in Ventura County. Gun discharge, I think twice, indecent exposure, battery theft, narcotics use, quite a few things.

So these hundred neighbors of the proposed site ask respectfully in this submission that you with all the fresh data and all of the deep thinking that you've done To consider and reconsider your previous approval of that location, look at alternatives. Please agendize this for maybe the next meeting or definitely a meeting this year and relook at that decision with the fresh information, the 100 people's opinions, and everything you heard from the planning commission as well a few weeks ago. Very colorful meeting by the way.

And we ask respectfully that you just do that. Consider and deep think on this subject, and ideally put it on the agenda and decide on a new location. I'm ahead of time. That's all I have to say.

May I make a comment, Mayor?

Thank you Mike.

I think it's important for the audience listening here tonight and also on television. The incident, first of all Chief Trina is not here To explain those incidents, but it's my understanding that that did not occur in the cabin village. It occurred when people were a long time ago and people are camping and those people have been removed. I cannot emphasize enough that everyone in the cabin village signs an agreement to be a good neighbor so I don't want To leave the impression that we have a criminal element living in the cabin village. That's not the case no more than any neighborhood may have some unsavory characters.

that I found was that all the people who signed this are massively compassionate to the homeless problem and for doing something for these people. So,

thank you very much. Thank you for reading my mind. Thank you.

Correct. Make an important correction. Thank you.

Thank thank you very much Mike. Next we have Larry Robin Gerber then Larry Steingold then Renee Roth

Hi, I'm Robin Gerber resident of Ojai. First let me say thank you Mayor. Thank you Councilmember Francina for your service however much we may have disagreed which was kind of a lot okay but nevertheless I do appreciate your public service and the public service of everyone on the council and let me just say that on this issue of indemnification That the precedent you're setting, I hope is being considered.

First of all that hearing shouldn't have been closed that's another issue but not to indemnify a member of this council When they were clearly doing their work as a council member is a terrible precedent for both you and anyone else considering coming onto the Council. So it sounds like this is still not resolved, but I do hope it gets resolved in a way that reassures those who might want to do public service that they will not have to pay Dearly for doing public service.

I really got up though to talk about something else under the tenure of the unfortunate mr Marcus was that a same how quickly we forget Davis Under his tenure at least two employees perhaps more were dismissed and And that is a problem. I was an employment attorney for a long time. I don't know these people, they happened to be sitting in front of me at the first meeting.

They were very longtime employees, one of them over 20 year employee of the recreation department. To be dismissed like that by someone who himself was clearly not capable of doing the job is wrong. And you need to write that wrong. Please cut me off if they've been reinstated, which really is what should happen. Go ahead Mr. Harvey.

Through the mayor, first of all I would just say it's inappropriate to discuss personnel actions here at the Council meeting during public comment. But just for some clarification, I don't wish to create a dialogue but that's not correct those employees were not both Mr Davis' employees and so there's some misunderstanding about The facts and but beyond that, that's not something we're here to talk about or the circumstances.

Every public employee, especially a full time employee beyond probation has property rights in their job and they are afforded those rights through a Skelly proceeding if the opportunity arises so we're aware of the rules and regulations in the laws and we afford everybody those.

Thank you Mr City Manager

Thank you. I'm not sure that exactly answers my concern, my understanding is they did work for the Recreation Department. They did not work for the Recreation Department?

Again, I'm not going to engage in dialogue but one of the employees was not a Recreation Department employee.

I see well if any of them were then it needs to be revisited. They don't have a union to represent them, maybe one of you, Suzy, are going to have some time. Maybe you can take this up as your cause but it's very distressing that we had this situation at the rec department and the wreckage left behind includes the human wreckage One person if not more than one who was working in that department, so I just hope you will give that your attention And it's true. I don't have all the facts so I appreciate Kind of having them at any rate. I hope that That you'll consider that thank you

Thank You Robin next we have Larry Steingold then Renee Roth and then Ames

Thank you all for your service, thank you for the rain. Unfortunately I need a garbage bag on my foot Ditto for Mr. Haney For park and rec though and for healing I do believe we need a post-mortem As to who, why what and how this happened it didn't happen in a vacuum. There was no committee formed if the commission was in place that probably wouldn't have happened. Regarding the Encanto I'd like to be around when they do the phase one environmental assessment because I do believe it will be contaminated and you will have to move it Regarding security, Commissioner Francina said it was no different than any other part of the community.

So why do they need 24-hour security? If it's like anywhere else, I don't see any other apartment complex in the city having a security guard. So in that matter, that's a question and Thank you.

May I make a correction? Thank you, Larry. Yes. Sorry, I didn't. I think you're kind of misinterpreting what I said. I said that any neighborhood could have. We don't know some unsavory care, right? But the reason we have the security is because that was requested by the neighbors and it's just. You know. It feels like it's been turned around to say that I think it's good to have the security. Everybody feels better.

Okay, thank you. We're gonna move on? On the Cabin

Village, it will come back to council at another time where these kinds of questions can be answered. Not on the agenda tonight though.

Thank you Larry. Next we have Renee Roth. Good point.

I know, ask Larry. We should have again a post-mortem to say to just move it forward and forget everything. It happened for a reason. It just didn't happen in a vacuum. So it would be nice to know so that it doesn't happen again, so that commissioners and commissions and committees and management are all on the same book and page. Thank you.

Thank you, Larry. Next we have Renee Roth and then Ames.

Good evening members of the council. This is a rough thing for me to have to say but Betsy Sticks I need to say that I hold you personally responsible for what happened in the park and rec department And all of those kids coming here begging for a program again. I hold you personally responsible for the mismanagement of that whole thing. It started out in a closed meeting, another closed meeting Betsy Sticks where there was a liability issue.

And it ended up with kids begging for their program to be reinstated and a park and rec manager who had to resign from his post. I personally hold you responsible for the mismanagement of that whole effort. Personally, you. I also hold you personally responsible for the lawfare environment that has set Leslie Rule up to not be indemnified because your friend Sabrina Vences can represent all of the plaintiffs in a lawsuit against the city because she disclosed some things in a public Private meeting that shouldn't been private.

That is not okay, Betsy. More lawfare that you have established the precedent for and more people threatening lawsuits to try to shut down the homeless, the tent city project. This is on your neck, Betsy. This is your doing. I personally do not respect somebody who cannot at least give clear guidance to the city manager about how and when we should be talking to our department heads and how and when the parents can have a say with the department heads who he works for.

Pardon me? Point of order. Yes, sir. Sure. I think this council has adopted a code of conduct fairly recently and in that code of conduct we agreed as a body—I'm not a council member but the council approved it—that we'd focus on criticizing policies, programs, practices, procedures, processes and not people. And I think that we do that so that we can keep an environment of civility and decorum and so that people feel comfortable Speaking here and also being up here because it does take a lot to be up here.

And I just don't think it's reasonable that these statements and comments can be directed at something that happened, which is fine. Certainly that's part of why we're here but I don't think we need to demonize a person or a body and I just don't think it's reasonable that we should have to endure this.

Thank you very much.

I hope at some point you can have an open and public discussion with the citizens of Ojai about many areas of the misunderstanding of what happened with the Park and Rec Department. You have been closed-lipped, tight-lipped, and not said anything I don't want any more lawsuits. I really don't. I want us to have decorum and speak respectfully, but we have to be invited to the table to be able to speak. We have to be able to invited to a conversation so we can speak.

Thank you, Renee. And I've offered many times to go out with coffee for you so that's still on the table and just a reminder according to Rosenberger's rules which we and we adopted a code of conduct. We focus on policy and not personality. So thank you very much. Next we have Ames.

Good evening, everyone. So that's powerful complex issue and another powerful complex issue is Ojai tent town and the cabin village. And I wanted to speak to that a little bit and I'll just go ahead and respond to the discussion about security. So one of the things I pointed out at the Planning Commission meeting is that when you look at those more than 100 complaints from 2024, it's important to look at that data and see what was pre-July and what was post-July because the city put into effect the resident steward model in order to support community integration and structure and accountability and enhance these agreements. And they also brought in security And when I first got here in July, it was really, really intense. And there was this thought of gosh, I wish there had been security earlier.

I was hearing from a lot of the residents who lived here at Ojai Tent Town that they hadn't felt safe. And so I'm really appreciative that the city brought in the security and they brought in more structure And so it's good to look at that data post-July and pre-July to see what kind of impact that made. That's a very outcomes driven approach, data driven approach, and I really support that.

In terms of the security, when I think what happens, and I've worked with a lot of encampments and I understand the stabilization process that occurs And so what we did here in Ojai is a stabilization-first model. There's housing first models, and really this is a stabilization first because instead of saying we're going to disperse this encampment, we're going to actually stabilize folks here, get them connected with services and support their transition which is groundbreaking. And the city of Ojai and this whole town should take great pride in that, and I'm so thankful for that.

When the security first came here, it was a different situation. And those gun things that came off and a lot of the things that were said in that report or that man's testimony today, that was pre-July but it wasn't an actual gun. It was like a BB gun or something like that. But the security process that happens is you start off needing a lot of security or a certain type, and then it becomes about enforcing accountability and agreements. And so you know what the number one thing that our security does today? You'd probably like this in your neighborhood.

If someone's making too much noise past quiet hours, they someone text secure all goes to their tent. They also protect us from people outside of the community, believe it or not. And so I just wanted to give thanks to this program right before Thanksgiving. Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Thank you, Ames. Any comments online?

Council Member Ruhl

Yeah, I just wanted to say that I was walking through the Arbalada last week and I got hit with a pellet gun. Yeah, some guy in the Arbalada running along his fence line shooting and so just want you to know and he hit me. And so there we go. It's just to say that anything can happen anywhere. And there we go

Sorry to hear that.

I know, I was sorry to get it. I told him not to shoot my dog and he shot me.

Any comments online Weston?

Yes no raised hands mayor but we'll give our zoom participants the opportunity to raise their hand for general public comment. We'll give them a last call to raise your hand and we will move on mayor.

Thank you all right we'll move on to the consent calendar is there a motion to approve?

I'll make a motion to approve

Second. Okay, roll call please

motion pass

Thank you very much All right We'll move on to our discussion item item number two Libby Bowl management and operating agreement with Ojai Valley music LLC And we have a staff report

We do. We'll have a brief staff report. Thank you, Mayor. You'll hear from me. You also will hear from Ms. Anderson perhaps our Assistant City Attorney. You won't hear from Ms. Rivera. She is on scheduled vacation today but and actually we also have all three members are two? Three okay good great we've got three members all three members of Ojai Valley Music here with us as well and I'm sure they'd like to speak if you wanted to afford them the opportunity but In a nutshell, as Council will recall the City has enjoyed concert promotion programming through Sterling Venue Ventures for the past eight years. We're coming up on that in December The City made a decision earlier this year to go out for RFP and offer the Council the option of either continuing with Sterling or going with the recommendation from the RFP process.

In October, Council was given that choice and decided to go with Ojai Valley Music and directed staff to come back with negotiated contract. That's what we're here with tonight. There is a lengthy contract attached to this agenda report. Ms. Anderson and Revere and I, along with Ojai Valley Music have endeavored to put together a comprehensive contract, one that addresses the concerns raised by Council.

And the requests, one that leaves the community in good condition and one that is fair and reasonable to Ojai Valley Music so that they may have a chance. A reasonable chance a good chance at success in concert programming. So we're proposing a four-year agreement with the potential for two options for four year extensions. A lot of the other provisions are similar to what you may recall from prior agreements with Sterling Venue Ventures, we haven't completely Recreated the model here. I would call out one change that is a little bit different We do have a two tiered system for booking with a tier 1 and a tier 2 category In discussions with Ojai Valley music we felt that was probably a better way to structure the year rather than the prior Arrangement which was a little Goofy and candidly kind of put the city at a disadvantage if we wanted to have events.

So anyway, I'd be happy to go through any of the provisions in here. I know that you have all read the contract. And again, we have representatives from Ojai Valley Music here. And I want to thank Ms. Anderson for all the work that she did because it is her work that we're benefiting from this evening. So with that, that's all I have for now. Thank you.

Thank you. Any questions from council?

I have questions, but I'd like to wait till after public comment.

Okay. All right we will move on to public comment then first we have Larry Steingold then William Wyrick and then Andy Gilman

Thank you, Larry Steingold. What you have here, OVM, you have three experts in the music business. They know their business. What you have here is you have two attorneys and a city manager who are not experts in the music business. I gather that, okay? They're experts in what they do. Okay, just like your experts in your business. Not every business. I was in the real estate business.

I would like to see a six-month review. I would like to see the city have expert witnesses or expert advisors who are also in the music business, who know their business. I would like to see a COLA, which is an increase every year in the money. and a negotiated one going forward so that everybody knows what the $2,500 or three grand or whatever it is they're gonna get. The city's gonna get from now until 12 years from now.

So that we don't have to renegotiate the wheel every single time but we don't...the city does not have music experts Agreement readers. We don't have expert attorneys who are experts in the music business. They do, they are, that's their business. So they know what should go in the document, they know what should not go in the document. Our attorneys are very good at what they do. They don't know what's lacking.

Have they talked to anybody else in the music business? Have they talked to anyone? Have they had the leases agreements looked at? But more importantly, a six-month review with the police department and traffic and planning and everybody else. Not a one year look back but a six month look back because it takes two years because they have to make appointments... I'm sorry, they have to make contracts with musicians or what have you a year ahead.

So it wouldn't be fair to them and it wouldn't be fair to us to have a one year but a six month would be good I mean, so the document it may be good. I have no idea but it's not my business nor is it your business nor is that our attorney's business. So I would advise you because we don't want errors or omissions to be part of the legal agreement. We don't want to miss something. We don't want to have our attorneys miss something that should be self-evident to people in the business. That's why I would advise that you either establish we have lots of experts in the city who are in the business. Half the city's in the business, right? And I'm sure a lot of them would be more than happy to review it and bring in comments. Some of them may be deal killers, some of them maybe helpful or not but at least you get advisement.

Thank you.

I have a question. Thank you, Larry. First of all are you suggesting that before we...

Mr. City Manager?

Yeah, I'm sorry Council Member Frensley, I might recommend that you allow all the public to make comment before asking questions.

But could I just ask what he meant by a six-month review?

Sure

why not? Okay Is it? I'm sorry. I just didn't understand what he said about six months versus one year.

Well, right now there's no review. You can terminate the agreement from what I've read at any point during the during the agreement or not. I'm not sure. But to have a review of the activities, the problem that I

understand.

Right. Or a year agreement. If you have it every year, you now kick it into the second year because they have contracts for musicians a year from now. I got it.

Thank you Larry. Next we have William Wyrick then Andy Gilman and then Randy Haney

Evening Council. It's real healthy to have RFPs, by the way I think we're overdue for a legal services RFP it's been 10 years so i hope that's something look at going forward so it's healthy to have RFPs periodically every few years And when they occur, I think in this situation it has resulted in a very talented qualified and tremendous high potential engagement with Ojai Valley Music LLC. Very impressed with every person part of this process.

The point I want to make, though, is that I have 30 plus years in reviewing contracts of all kinds between private contracts, public contract agency contracts, public private ventures, etc. God only knows how many I reviewed over 30 something years and you should take proper time to make sure you have vetting outside the bubble outside the staff bubble We just had a situation where staff bubble review led to the outrage of the gymnastic situation.

Learn from that experience, and at least I would urge you for two weeks until December 10th because time is of the essence, I understand that, into this agreement and I'm going to go over just a couple of things that are very important. One, already alluded to, this contract builds in less money per year in real terms compensation for the city if you don't have a COLA, a cost-of-living adjustment which nobody writes contracts without COLAs anymore.

Number two your documents not complete In the packet it refers to exhibit B. Exhibits refer to in leases as part of the contract, it was not part of the packet. Exhibit B is blank when I tried printing it out so you don't have the complete contract. Number three there's language in here unprecedented appoints OVM as the manager and operator of the amphitheater That's a conclusive statement. There is some internal contradiction to other definitions at one point it's referred to as a personal services contract, then an independent contract then as a appointment as manager.

These are things that need to be done, because what I want and I urge you to provide some time for further vetting here is the best possible foundation with these wonderful people. Because a strong foundation is what leads to the best mutual outcome between the city and the contractees. Thank you.

Thank you Bill. Next we have Andy Gilman and then Randy Haney.

Good evening Council and staff. I support this contract, and just a couple of minor points. It looks like there's a tiny typo on page 2-1 the agreement term January 1 2024 should be 2025 small tiny thing. Second, it looks like on page 2-4 there's a list of oh sorry it's 2- 4 to 2-5 there's a list of legacy events. One, it looks like it's an old list Lavender Festival for example is one And it looks like at least the Ojai Storytelling Festival, which is a legacy event isn't on there. So we might just look at the most current list and make sure that we have everything there so that nothing's omitted. That's something that could easily be done but maybe this was pulled from possibly the Sterling contract from eight years ago.

So the Ojai Storytelling Festival would be the last full weekend of October for example. And then another small point the The website that's brought up on page 2-2 to It seems to me there's a really interesting opportunity here because a common complaint is Okay, it's I believe it's page

2-22 and it says bowl

website number 8 and It's actually not so specific about that, but I was going to bring up a general opportunity which is it's hard for people to know what shows are playing when. That's a general problem. So this could be a really interesting time to say whoever is going to manage that website that it either could be something separate if it's part of the city, that's fine. But it's a time to revamp that to make something more interesting. So I would build that into the possibilities And that kind of leads into this other piece which is something that we had talked about, literally like in 2011, which was some signage.

That would be a high standard something that we would like that somewhere on the pergola maybe or somewhere that talks about the upcoming shows I don't know what that looks It keeps coming up. We keep talking about it but to be maybe need for this council to think about something like that going forward to announce the upcoming shows, and then in conclusion, I would support what Larry Steingold brought up and also bill Eric.

Since it's such a big deal and a big contract and so important to the city, I would suggest that we come back in six months. Just look it over carefully, get a presentation by the vendor. How is it going? Any adjustments necessary? It seems like an easy thing to do and something we would like to hear if any adjustments do need to be made because it is so important. But I do support it, and I think it's a great opportunity for our city. Thank you.

Thank you, Andy. Next, we have Randy Haney

So I'm sorry, I'm back. But I ran out of time. Last thing I left you with was what? Obviously, you didn't hear it do no harm. So just to just a quick take on what I'm hearing, there's some other things that I think we could do as a community There's nothing wrong with writing four consecutive one-year contracts with a review period at the end of the first year, the second year, the third and the fourth.

We kind of had the same thing with Sterling. The other thing is it seems to me that we are giving this group one of our most prestigious community sites in the community. We're giving them Libby Bowl That's ours, that's the community's. We're giving them partially in the contract there are 26 dates and technically there's 26 other dates that we used to manage.

I think the city manager has actually asked these gentlemen to be the managers of Libby Bowl and of that facility so if we're going to do that why don't we charge for that? Why are we giving away the store at $2,500 per event? Why don't we just do an agreed upon number. Why don't we take the $65,000 that they would be getting if they did 26 events at $2500 an event And why don't we just charge them the same thing for the other 26 weeks? Let's have them pay us $130,000 to manage our bowl and to use our bowl and to use our facility as they deem fit because that's what you're doing.

You're giving away the store in this contract. You're giving it to them to be the managers of that site if you're not say so City Manager, if you're not say so. But that's what this agreement reads. We're going to give you 26 dates and by the way we have some other events that we've had historical events in the past but also you can manage the other open dates for us. We'd appreciate that because that's not what we do as a community. We don't have that skill set I get that.