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0:00 – 0:0714 turns
We have a quorum. Could we please have the roll call? And thank you, Ms. Mora for filling in for our Chief Deputy City Clerk Weston Montgomery who is ill tonight so we're sending him healing vibes. Thank You Weston
Roll call — called by Mara
Show transcript
wonderful and we have a quorum welcome everyone to the December 10th 2024 meeting of the Ojai City Council Bridget will you please say the pledge for us
Agenda Discussionitems moved / continued / pulled — click to expand
Thank you Bridgette and is there a motion to approve the agenda?
I'll move to approve and I'll second it
all in favor.
All right,
wonderful Okay, wait,
I'm sorry on that topic one item will not be presented this evening And that is under the presentations as you mentioned our chief deputy city clerk is not feeling well So we will have him deliver that presentation in January
Wonderful, thank you. All right we will move on to the
consent calendar. Is there a motion to approve? Council Member Uhl, do you want to pull one item?
Actually I want to pull two
items.
I want to pull Item B
and
also pull Item D.
And we do have five public comments on that, on the consent so we'll go ahead and take those first. First we have William Wyrick, Larry Steingold and then William Wyrick again so that's on D&E Bill, then Larry and then Jeffrey Starkweather.
On the nominees for Park and Recommission. You know, part of regular order used to be that anyone who completed an application and go to order was interviewed. We've gotten away from that, and I hope we get back to it because it's a way of showing basic respect to all of our citizens who take the trouble to think about volunteering for public service. Thank you.
Thank you, Bill. Next, we have Larry and then Jeffrey.
Larry Steingold. I would like to, if they do come back for nomination which I hope they do, Robert Munich and Mr. Ellison are very well qualified. I also would like to see a new protocol where everyone who applies is interviewed within a month of their application Because one month, two months, three months, nine months, ten months and an arbitrarily not being read or not being met or not being interviewed puts everybody on an unfair playing ground.
Every person who comes here who wants to volunteer should be interviewed. Look I assume the fix is in. I assume that everybody gets their own city council, their own commissioner. That's okay that's part of the deal but at least interview everyone And then if you don't want to have them, don't have them. But don't don't ignore people. Don't say, oh, we're short of prospects and then a flood come in and we ignore them or have the staff bless their heart said that we shouldn't have a tree committee because we don't have enough volunteers.
And I think that's not right. So interview everyone. Thank you.
Thank you, Larry. Next, we have Jeffrey Starkweather
Two different items, so can I you want me to speak them one after another? Okay. I'll go with B the warrants In the warrants we have substantial fees for attorneys. One for our regular attorney, I think $93,000 something. I don't have it in front of me right now but and for an attorney we hired or a firm to give us advice about the Brown Act. This leads me to say that I think we need to have an evaluation of our attorney contract Evaluation of our closed meeting policy.
We've had rulings after rulings which I think go way beyond the intent of the Brown Act for closed sessions on anticipated or potential litigation and there's so many things that you don't have to go into that question that you could be discussing in public. For an example, when you have an ordinance or you have a existing one or new one and there's potential litigation, that's something the public should know about because we're the ones who are going to pay for that litigation. We're the ones who are going to be lobbying you whether to approve or disapprove that ordinance. To say we should take out a provision. To give the perfect example was the Reach Code I came before this board at least twice saying we need to eliminate restaurants from the code because Berkeley, which our ordinance is the same was sued by the Restaurant Association.
If we got rid of them, we wouldn't have that litigation problem. But that was never discussed in public. I think the manager needs an update and training on the Brown Act, the serial meeting he had on the location of the encampment where he said in public that he talked We talked to several members who said they didn't want to rezone it. That should have gone back to the City Council to decide, that was a public decision of theirs not of the managers plus his cutting off a speaker the other night I don't think that's his responsibility either So I think that it would be advisable to look over these policies, to look over our litigation strategy and to make sure that we consider what we've been doing. Maybe even putting this out the bit or one more thing.
I think we need to separate the advice we get from our city council at these meetings. Thank
0:07 – 0:2144 turns
Thank you, Jeffrey. And now you would like to speak on D?
Sorry about that. I haven't spoken a long time so make enough for it. Okay this is about of course the item is the election result. But I'm morphing from that into something else, which the election results of 2022 when we voted. I think 56 or 7 percent of the city voted to go to at-large district. We also included ranked choice voting. Now there were legal issues but I've looked at the Voting Rights Act and there is no way we would lose a case under the Voting Rights Act. The two standards are racial voting, we've never had racial voting. We have 15% Hispanics. The one Hispanic who ran, ran citywide and got elected, Severo, he ran twice for mayor against a prominent white person and he almost got as many votes so there's no racial voting.
And the second is creating a majority minority district which would be impossible with 15% of the population spread out It is causing all kinds of problems. We had an election, one of you won by seven votes and one of you won by I think 21 votes? I'm not insulting anybody! And we just had an election unfortunately Kim Mang who's great that she stepped up but we had no contest in election four and plus we had the problem with Sousa not being able to be in her district And my understanding, I could be wrong that somebody actually checked with this law firm. They're going around threatening anybody and they might be willing to consider given that this is actually working backwards on us.
So the statistics, and I worked with the ranked choice voting people on looking at what kind of numbers could increase the chance of a minority getting elected? Well when you have three people running and you have 15 or 16% minority, the potential goes up to like 30 or 40% that you're gonna elect a minority but when you're doing single district voting The odds in any one district that a minority would get elected is extremely small. So our system discriminates against minorities and I think it's time that we move forward and change our, now I agree ranked choice voting may be a legal barrier now but doesn't mean we can't go back to districts.
So I would appreciate that you all, the new board, the new mayor and city council member, that you consider moving forward. And besides Andy promised him when he ran that he would push for that so I'm gonna hold into it. Thank you.
Thank You Jeffrey any other comments online Bridget?
Sorry, I do have Mike Donahue online right now.
And just to confirm, Mike, this these are comments on the consent calendar, not general public comment. General, I wanted
I want a general public.
OK? Well, we'll wait then. Please lower your head. Thank you.
OK, that's it. All right. Thank you. And just to confirm council member rule pulled B and D. So is there a motion to approve A, C and E?
Oh, I'll move to approve. Second. All
in
favor.
Okay. Council Member Ruhl, you want to talk about B?
I do. So, I am pointing out on page 1B-4 basically the legal fees for Myers Knave a professional corporation October 24th Legal Services Brown Act guidance $38,547. I need to discuss with the city attorney and or the city manager that was not Brown Act guidance So we need to, and this is an official document. And we've heard the members of the public believe that it is. It was Brown Act guidance, and it wasn't.
I want to also point out that this same firm in October charged us $10,792, and it was noted as general legal costs. In November, this same firm charges $20,441. Noted as legal services and in December they charges 38 547 noted as Brown Act guidance So this is an official document. We need to clarify that I don't know if that's done here. I don't know if we don't Approve the warrants. I'm not sure on what the procedure is, but that needs to be corrected to be accurate
Mr. City Manager
sure we can take that as council direction if that's the pleasure of the council
And we may ask the question. Sure, of course. Can we approve everything except for those two items? Would that work?
So you've got two options. One will be to change the framing for item seven on page 1B-4, the Myers-Navaj bill, uh, to reflect something other than Brown Act guidance if that's the pleasure of the council. It may be simpler to approve the warrants and simply frame it as legal services and delete the Brown Act guidance which doesn't require replacing it with another phrase as there may or may not be disagreement among the council on another phrase.
That may be simpler.
I think what the public, from what I've heard and what I as a soon-to-be member of the public would like is a more detailed explanation to our way of thinking exorbitant charges.
So a more detailed explanation of the legal fees from my firm and Myers-Nave, the one that was questioned. That can be provided. I don't think we have that information before us tonight but that can be provided with more information in hand and some sense of where the privilege lines lie. So the council could move to approve the rest of the warrant register minus item seven on page 1B4 would be another choice.
Okay motion for that?
So just I'll comment just quickly, or ask a question. So the label Brown Act guidance is that Myers-Navis description of the work that they did? Or is that our description? In other words, the city's description. It's the latter?
This is a good question and I don't know. I suspect it's probably a city description on that one that's inaccurate is my feeling.
Okay well yeah, I wouldn't want to change an attorney's description of his own work but I'm fine with the idea of changing the description to legal services.
Would you like to make a motion?
Yeah, I'll move that we change item 7 so that it reads in place of Brown Act guidance legal services.
And is there a second for that motion?
I'll second but I also want to ask if this is what Councilmember Rule had in mind since you pulled this item
Yes, so I mean this it is at this point totally appropriate to go as general as possible But I will point out as our city attorney said there is privilege here So I am hoping that when the new council is seated That the new council will waive privilege and we can actually discuss this openly. I'm not going to ask this council to do that but I think that the public has a right to know what these charges are we are now at Almost $70,000 for this firm and we still have a bill coming in So I believe that the public has a right to know that but yes privilege is keeping us from discussing that so Right now. I am fine with just keeping it general But I will be coming back to new council to ask to weigh a privilege where we can actually discuss it So yes, I'm fine with that With that caveat.
Okay? We have a motion and a second could we all in favor? Aye Okay, wonderful. All right and then you also pulled D councilmember rule
yes And this is going to go over like a lead balloon but As I was talking to Susie Taylor the chairperson for the park and recs committee and I was setting up My interviews and by the way, I will be interviewing everybody who's still there Who's still on the list? I won't be You know, just interviewing one person. In talking to her it came to my attention that the interview process was not done all three of you together.
And if you turn to page, which is by the way one of the major requirements that we fought for for a year was that the three nominating committee members would meet together and interview the nominee. That did not happen And if you look on page 1.d-6, number 3, the nominating committee shall interview each applicant under consideration together virtually or in person before selecting a nominee for the City Council confirmation. Unfortunately for Mr. Ellison that did not happen So as I see it, his nomination cannot go forward because it does not follow the ordinance for the City Council.
I spoke with council member Francina yesterday and I spoke to the city manager today about this and let them know that I would be pulling This consent item. I was not able because of Brown Act and Brown Act buddies to speak to any other council members So, I apologize if it is indeed a shock to anybody Councilmember Francina was on that nominating committee so I am gonna have to make a motion that this particular Nomination not go forward and I am sorry about that. I wish it weren't the case but That we fought for that for a year. So there we are
Just okay, so we have a motion. Is there a second for that motion? I'm just one sec Okay, well go ahead.
I am going to set to second even though I came in here hoping that we could Ratify the nomination because I've been texting with chair the Park and Rec Commissioner Chair Susie Taylor and she is not comfortable That she didn't follow exact code requirement. She was not aware of that and shall we I would like to just briefly explain what happened. We interviewed Andrew Ellison And Chair Taylor, looking at the resume and I think she also texted with his wife. She approved our appointment.
So when you say we, Sousa Hoodie? Who are you referring to as the people that interviewed Mr.
Ellison? Oh, we interviewed the mayor, Betsy Stix, myself as a council member and the chair. So all the all the appointments are according to the new code, which I do believe needs some tweaking. I'm acutely aware of that. Are interviewed by the mayor. The mayor interviews everyone. The chair of the commission And then it's a rotating among the council members. That's correct right.
Yeah yeah you did that you did the other interview. The other and we can ratify that one right.
But I'm not to. The way you just described it it sounded like there were three people well present. Can I add.
We had a we had a zoom meeting scheduled Andrew was in Wisconsin so. The three of us were scheduled to Zoom with Andrew and our city clerk, and the chair did not show up to the Zoom meeting. We didn't know why. So we talked to Andrew, and Council Member Francina said I'll talk to the chair afterwards.
And
I spoke to the chair afterwards, and she said she was very happy with the nomination. Now
she's clearly texted that she does not want to go forward with it. Okay interviews in person
Well, then let's go ahead and vote on this motion. That makes sense. Yeah
Okay,
and I just want to say and to Andrew Ellison sorry about the glitch and we will continue and talk to you or the new council will talk to you and
Yeah. Yes, I'll have to do it. I just want yes so I'm. I understand that Susie is not comfortable so you do not have a unanimous. You do not have a unanimous nomination but I want to point out even if she were comfortable it goes against our ordinance. So I'm glad that it's an easy way out that we don't have unanimous vote but Trickier still is that we're moving forward ignoring our ordinances Understanding it's a glitch, but that's just a fundamental That's just a fundamental part of the nominating process that I know everyone on this council knows Anyway that having been said I am certainly ready for a vote and I apologize to Andrew In some ways I wish that I hadn't had that discussion with Susie Taylor, but I did.
And we look forward to interviewing you again with the new council.
Okay so this is just a motion about Mr. Ellison correct? Not the other two? Yes this is just a motion about... Correct. That is correct. All right roll call
Roll-call vote Passed 4–0 motion about... Correct. That is correct. All right roll call
Show transcript
0:22 – 0:2715 turns
My tongue is twisting
today Sorry Andrew
And then we also need, we need another motion to about the nominations of Sage Intner who is Council Member Lange's choice who is a reappointment and then Robert Munich who Council Member Whitman. I'll
move to confirm both of those appointments.
Is there a second? I'll second it. Okay roll call please.
Roll-call vote Passed 5–0 move to confirm both of those appointments. Is there a second? I'll second it. Okay roll call
Show transcript
thank you.
Thank you and congratulations to Sage and Robert. Welcome Robert and we are grateful for your service very appreciative. Councilwoman?
And I just wanted to add for all the other applicants that we are still in the process of interviewing and appointing And so I know that some of you with whom I've spoken are wondering where we are in that process. And so just know that is something that is ongoing and thank you to all who applied and to those who were nominated.
Thank you. All right, we will move on to the show. Presentation of the reorganization of the City Council and Mr. Assistant City Manager taking over, right? I have to look at
my script. Here's my script.
And once again, I'd just like to, Weston if you're watching our city clerk he worked tirelessly to organize this event and was so attentive to all the details. So thank you Weston and we all miss you. And we're happy you're here Carl, thank you.
Thank you, Mayor Sticks. So we'll be recognizing four individuals today to departing City Council members and our departing city clerk who could not be here today she is also unfortunately ill And also a departing Planning Commissioner, Mr. Quillacy who will also be joining us in a new capacity So we have beautiful plaques for each individual that the mayor would like to present To them that our city attorney is modeling here We have to
stand up immediately And we can't come back, so we have to take our stuff. Well, during the break it says. I'm going to leave this. I don't want to spill it. We're gonna
be bad.
This is not a roast either, so don't worry. Steve do you want to come up here? Thank you. Well, it's a real honor to be able to honor Steve and Cynthia and Sousa. Steve Quillacy was on the Buildings Appeal Board for a year before serving the last eight years on the Planning Commission. The last four as chair. Steve's experience as an aerospace engineer, where he spent 35 years reading government contracts made it easier for him to dive deep into municipal code and continue to dive over and over again.
For that we are grateful Steve I so appreciate your dedication to Ojai and attention to detail as well as your civil respectful and polite demeanor key attributes for effective leadership in getting things done Steve always worked hard at following the law and finding a compromise. A compromise that both applicants and the city could live with, which is not always easy. In fact it's often quite challenging. You've always approached these challenges with grace and level head. Thank you Steve.
Fun Fact! Steve and I actually have a lot in common. We both love the color red, clearly. We both are cardinals. Steve was in the engineering department and I was in the School of Ed. They were very far apart. And Steve's children went to the same high school that I attended in Cincinnati where his wife Judy taught computer science. What are the odds of that?
From Ohio to Ojai. And we sure are glad that you landed in our fair city. Ojai is lucky to continue to benefit from your expertise and eagle eye through your new role as the City Clerk. Congratulations, and thank you! We look forward to seeing you at City Hall in your new function. In fact, we're going to get to see you in action tonight when you swear in the new Council Members. Much appreciated, Steve.
0:27 – 0:357 turns
Thank you. Thank you. Very briefly, I have appreciated being on the Planning Commission in particular and in particular with this set of commissioners that we have right now. They're dedicated, they're detail-oriented and they're very reasonable. We've always tried to come to the point where we could find a yes in a case whatever the terms had to be to get there And I'm particularly proud of the fact that we have done a lot of cleanup on Title 10, planning and zoning.
This council approved more than 200 changes to the municipal code to clean it up, clarify it and so. And so onto the next. Thank you very much.
Thank you, Christy. Beautiful. Unfortunately, our city clerk Cynthia Burrell could not be here with us tonight. I'm going to read her tribute. Ojai is so grateful for Cynthia's 40 years of service. Wow. Cynthia has spent half her life working at for the city that must be some kind of record She worked for the city staff as city clerk until 2000 and then came back as elected city clerk in 2004.
When I spoke to Cynthia earlier today, she was very succinct and heartfelt. She said, it's been a joy. We're a great city. How true? She also told me that Steve Quillacy reminded her that she served as interim city manager twice. That's a big deal, Cynthia! She is such a wonderful example of an individual stepping up to help her community in whatever way is needed, and Cynthia knows what's up. We appreciate her willingness to pitch in and her easy and contagious laughter and smile.
And she's a world-class knitter which we've seen at meetings, very impressive. Thank you Cynthia for all you've given for all these decades, and we will miss you. Here's your plaque.
Cynthia, did you want to speak?
Nope, thank you except I just enjoyed my life in the city. And it was Steve Olson that reminded me that I was-
Sorry, wrong Steve.
Yeah. Thank you all. I thank the voters for keeping me in office for 41 years.
Here's a story that maybe some of you don't know. Like so many residents, Sousa did not pay much attention to what went on in City Hall until something happened in her neighborhood One morning in the early 1990s, she woke up to the sound of people using chainsaws to cut down a grove of trees to build a parking lot. Not knowing what to do, she turned a hose on the workers while yelling at them to stop.
That was before you could send a photo and complaints to the My Ojai app, right? When one of the workers called the police, Sousa fled on her bicycle and hid. Where did you hide? Downtown. Hid downtown, okay. As fate would have it around the same time Sousa met someone who worked for Governor Jerry Brown, Dale Hanson. Where are you Dale? Hi Dale! Dale planted the idea in Suze's mind that she should run for city council so she could help pass laws to protect trees, open space and wildlife. And do cool things like legalize straw bale buildings and tiny houses, ban poisons and leaf blowers, and make Ojai a model bicycle and pedestrian friendly community.
Sousa was elected in 1996 to a four-year term. Some of her many accomplishments included working on the creation and adoption of Ojai's first bicycle and pedestrian master plan, and cofounding the Ojai Bicycle Coalition that helped initiate bicycle safety programs. In 2000, Sousa served as mayor and became nationally known as California's Mayor Without A Car. Nice!
I'm sure it's true. She made all trips under four miles on an old school non-electric bicycle and carpooled to county meetings, a great example of walking the talk or in this case riding it. Sousa was reelected in 2016 and again in 2020. During these two terms she worked hard to, among other things, limit short-term rentals, ban gas powered leaf blowers and other gas powered tools, served on the Complete Streets Committee, supported Caltrans and Public Works to reduce the four lane highway in front of Nordoff to two lanes along with safe protected bike lanes Helped produce Earth Day and other events with the Ojai Valley Green Coalition.
Approved regulations for three cannabis dispensaries on Bryant Street, passed a city spay and neuter ordinance, legalized tiny houses, served as liaison to Ventura County Animal Services and worked with rescue groups and volunteers countywide Served on the Ventura County Transportation Commission and the City Parking Committee. Approved affordable housing projects, animal rights and welfare ordinances, and a Rights of Nature ordinance. And worked on the Earth-Friendly Management Policy that is before our new city council tonight!
that you want the council to support, correct? Yes. Good. Sousa plans to continue advocating for projects initiated during the last term of the Council including strengthening the tree ordinance housing for the tent town residents, the bike trail extension to Soule Park Calming traffic on Creek Road, a 25 mile per hour speed limit citywide ordinance, bicycle education in the schools and regulating e-bikes.
So this list translates to the fact that we're going to be looking forward to seeing you at the podium, right? Great. And you're probably looking forward to making your comment and then leaving to go let your dogs out and get to bed at a decent hour. Thank you so much for your 12 years of late nights and for your love of our beloved community. Oh I am so grateful to you for your service. Thank you.
0:35 – 0:464 turns
Well, this is nice. Oh, you get another flag. Where will I put it? With your
other
flags? Can you see it Steve? Yeah. OK. Thank you. So. Well, I think I can sum it up by saying that this has truly been a consciousness expanding experience. And long before I sat on the dais, I was an advocate at the podium so I will go back to that role and everything that Betsy listed That's just really the tip of the iceberg because I got up at three and it was like a memoir. It was like a life review.
Yeah, she edited it. She left out some really juicy parts but what I want to say is that none of that you know you never do any of that alone and I'm very grateful Through the past I've worked, I think with at least four, no six city managers over the course of time and four public works directors. And you know, I'm grateful to all my colleagues on the council and it's very sobering to realize many of them have passed away. That's how long I've been here in time.
I really, there's so many people that I want to mention and thank. I definitely want to thank Bill, I can't possibly, you know there's like hundreds of people I want to express my gratitude to but especially Bill Miley who is like the most model public citizen and I don't know if he's even here tonight where is he? Where are you Bill? So I want to recognize him for his many years. And then, I also want to acknowledge this is just a few of the many people I'd like to acknowledge Ruth Miller.
I remember when she called me up about two years ago and I had known her before through various... She was a volunteer for the Humane Society. Oh, she was also a photographer for one of my books. How could I forget that? But anyway, she says to me that she's retired now and she has the time to work on the homeless situation And you know many many people call me with great ideas and it and I wonder The first thing I think well, I'll you know, we'll get started and we'll see how this goes but Ruth She never gave up. She just stayed with it and our initial meeting with just the two or three of us, the meetings grew and grew and grew I think that was about two years ago right? And we have a lot of work ahead and I look forward to supporting the new council in any way I can to accomplish what we need to do.
And I think that's all. Otherwise, I'll be here all night and we need to get the new people seated. Thank you. So this is my first and only act as Mayor Pro Tem.
I am really honored to represent the City of Ojai in thanking Mayor Betsy Sticks for her service to our community. Over the course of my time on city council, it's become clear to me that Betsy, you love Ojai. You took your role. Yeah, that's right. You sacrificed a lot in service to the community. You do what you believe is right And you've protected Ojai through some difficult circumstances and made the lives of Ojai residents better.
I now can say, you know after two years on council that to perform your duties as mayor. You had to not only attend the city council meetings but attend commission meetings, attend county-wide committee meetings, attend hearings all sort of public meetings and liaison meetings and public events And we also were always prepared. And that meant reading, you know, sometimes hundreds of pages.
So I want to go through some more specific accomplishments that Betsy was a part of as mayor of Ojai. So during her tenure, she kept regular working and retired Ojai renters from being priced out of their homes by leading the way passing rent stabilization and rent eviction protection In addition, the council took meaningful action on climate. Approved truly low-income housing.
Addressed assistance to the unhoused. Passed animal protection ordinances. Strengthened the city's plastic pollution and tree ordinances. Betsy is primarily responsible for that portion of the ATP that Creates a pathway off of Highway 33 so that our Nordoff students and bicyclists can ride without being on the highway. Betsy was our mayor during the COVID pandemic Ojai was in a health and financial crisis.
And Betsy's leadership allowed us to come out the other side of that healthy. In fact, during Betsy's tenure the city achieved a longstanding goal of being able to reserve the equivalent of an entire 12 month budget And not only that, we'll stay tuned. There might be more than just that 12-year reserve. Betsy served on the state Clean Power Alliance, was Ojai's voting representative to the California League of Cities.
She was our representative to SCAG, the Southern California Association of Governments. She was the city's representative during negotiations over the Ventura River litigation and she also founded the Mayor's Youth Council Betsy ran two 100% positive electoral campaigns and Betsy had 100% attendance at every council meeting. And chaired that meeting during the entire tenancy, her four year of service.
So I don't know if this is your background as a yoga teacher or teaching young people But you had amazing grace and calm. You set an example for all of us by choosing to turn the other cheek rather than respond to your detractors, From my seat on the dais, I was constantly amazed that no matter how vile somebody's comments from the public were towards you, you always had the same trademark response.
Thank you! To Betsy and Sousa, you have more than earned a break. But we will still need you so please continue to give us the benefit of your wisdom and experience. To Rachel and Leslie who are returning and newly elected Mayor Gilman and Council Member Mang We have big shoes to fill. Thank you for your willingness to serve and what you are about to undertake.
I am hopeful that we can demonstrate that 7,500 people can actually get along make sometimes hard choices and respect each other despite our differences. Finally, at one point in my wife's long and varied career she faced a lot of adversity in the organization that she was working with. And the head of that organization pointed out to her that they don't try to tackle you if you aren't caring at all.
Excuse me. Thank you Betsy for successfully hearing them all.
0:46 – 0:544 turns
Thank you and I love the football analogy. Can I read my
thing? I feel like throwing a football. Kim's kids and my kids played football together, so we're used to it. First, I want to thank the Council and staff for all their hard work, dedication and expertise. There you are. We all know that this is a difficult job and an act of selfless service, so thank you so much. It has been such a pleasure working with staff and getting to know you.
We have a great team here in Ojai, and we all need to do everything we can to support our small and mighty force, so thank you very much. It's been an honor working together. Thank you. I want to thank Michelle Pinheiro and Andy Gilman for running for the mayor's position, and for their willingness to serve. I commend Michelle and those who volunteered to help her with her campaign for keeping it positive.
This is what Ojai needs. And I appreciate Andy Gilman for taking on the role of mayor. It's not an easy task, and I wish you all the best moving forward. I also want to thank Kim Mang for her willingness to serve Ojai Council District 4. Go, Kim! You got it! I am hopeful that we all come to see that we really want the same thing, a society at peace with itself.
While peace may not sell newspapers it is the way and peace begins right here in each one of us. We reach peaceful ends through peaceful means which translates as focusing on policy and not personality. That is why we are here and why I ran for mayor. During the last four years, I worked hard to protect the environment and animals and to help people of lesser means in Ojai.
Our democratic government provides protection for those who are struggling and for the earth and all its residents including the trees and the plants. I look forward to the council continuing to hold the line on land use Yep, and to protect the commons and all living beings. While the mayor runs the meetings, the mayor is only one vote of five. This is a really important piece of information to keep in mind.
The council is a team. Although as individuals we may disagree, ideally we do so civilly. Each vote on the dais counts and it really matters who sits in the five seats. I want to encourage the council to take care of those who need it the most and to take swift climate action now for our children and our children's children. On that note, Council-to-be Would you please consider passing the Earth-Friendly Management Policy and moving forward with the Energy Efficiency Ordinance tonight? Two wonderful initiatives. Thank you."
I think I just made my first public comment off the dais, didn't I? That was fun. Several people have asked me about my plans for the future. I plan to follow the advice of Charles Dickens when he said, do all the good you can and make as little fuss about it as possible. I will see where that good leads me is been a real honor to have been your mayor. And I'm grateful to have had this opportunity to show up in this way for our town. Thank you.
I think it's cookie time, isn't it?
We have a few more recognitions for Mayor Stix and Councilmember Francina. And a few pictures so first we have a representative from Representative Carbajal's office here
Thank you very much. I'm Robert O'Reilly and I am here on behalf of your congressman, Salud Carbajal. Thank you for having me and thank you for liking Salud because everywhere I go everyone likes him. I want to begin with Mayor Betsy Sticks. I just have some congressional certificate of special congressional recognition Thank you. Just for your service here, and I'll just read it. Certificate of Special Congressional Recognition presented to Mayor Betsy Six in recognition of two terms of public service. Oh hey!
The thing I was trying to stay focused on, two terms of public office as Ojai City Mayor from 2020 to 2024. An advocate for affordable housing and the environment sticks pledged to promote love, truth, unity, justice and cooperation in a 2020 speech. And I wrote that, I put that on there because I followed you throughout your career as mayor And I did that because you had a lot of similarities to my former boss, Carmen Ramirez.
And that was just talked about here, and I'll stop with that. But I really appreciate what you stand for and what you fight for, the environment, land preservation. That's what brought me to California was being asked to come out here and help with the SOAR initiative which passed, now I'm on the SOAR board and now working with Salud Carvajal so I really admire you Mayor and what you do. So congratulations.
Next, Councilmember Sousa-Francina. Certificate of Special Congressional Recognition presented to Councilmember Sousa-Francina In recognition of 12 dedicated years serving the residents of Ojai on the Ojai City Council 1996 to 2000 and again 2016 to 2024. Thank you very much for your service. And congratulations. And I'm gonna give you my card because when I first started at the county as Carmen's chief of staff, the first thing I did was I said, I wanna do a homelessness task force.
Well that was already happening. But we joined it as the supervisor's office and it was one of the best things that I've ever been a part of going down and actually meeting the people. I learned so much. So I would love to help however I can And then offer up the help of the Office of the Congressman, too.
0:54 – 1:007 turns
I think it's wonderful to hear Carmen Ramirez's name mentioned. We all love and appreciate her so much. I met her during my time as liaison to the Ventura County Animal Services, and we worked together on things. And I just absolutely love and miss her. I think everyone does. So thank you for...
I think it's great that she's comparable. Comfortable. Thank
you. Absolutely.
I know the other two aren't here, so I'll just... And I wanted to say one more thing if I may. A very dear friend of mine has moved to your city recently and I've asked her to join me here just so that I could introduce her to council members and mayors and that's probably happening right now but it is Carmen's sister Maria Ramirez and that's why she looks like this So Maria, I really don't want to take away from what's happening here. But I want everyone to know that Maria is here. Maria has been a wonderful Democrat.
For those of you who aren't, that's okay. And she was so helpful in elections in Oxnard, the fifth district where Carmen served. And I think that she can be a real benefit asset to the city of Ojai and have already spoken with Rachel about that. So she's going to be putting connecting with you. So use her. She's a force to be reckoned with. Thank you so much.
Next we have state Senator Steve Bennett's office
It's wondering why the city council is here.
The assembly member is going to appreciate the promotion, just don't tell Senator Monique Lamone but my name is Atticus Reyes I live in Ojai and I'm here on behalf of the Assembly Member who represents Ojai and Western Ventura County up in the State Assembly. He unfortunately couldn't be here tonight but he definitely wanted me to show up with the two following recognitions For just two incredible people, and I'll start.
First, I'm gonna start with Council Member Francina who is frankly an institution in Ojai. And I didn't know that story about the hose in the tree but frankly, I don't know what's more Ojai than that. And you are Ojai, you are Ojai council member. And, I just wanted to share the assembly members thanks on everything you've worked on but specifically your unwavering commitment And unwavering support for active transportation. Not only active transportation in the city of Ojai, but also throughout our county through the Ventura County Transportation Commission. He really wanted me to share that with you because that's really important for everyone. So I will read from this Certificate of Recognition on behalf of the State Assembly.
Presented to Sousa Francina, in deep appreciation for and recognition of your commitment to public service and to the residents of the city of Ojai, commendations are conveyed for your dedication and leadership to our community as council member 1996-2000 And councilmember two thousand sixteen to two thousand twenty four. And my final recognition to my friend, Mayor Sticks.
The assembly member wanted me to present him with this as well thanking you for your service. Service is hard. Service is hard when things are going great and it's even harder when things are a little more challenging than when there's adversity. And that's when we find out a lot about ourselves and about our community. And I just personally want to thank you for serving with grace and humility, and really centering the environment and everyone in our community in your work with tenant protections And rent stabilization is really personal to a lot of people in this valley. We may never hear from I want you to know it's really, really important and I'll just finish with we've come a long way since we met at that table in Libbey Park a few years ago and I just really wanna thank you for your service and I wish you nothing but the best in this next chapter and I hope you find peace love and happiness and all of the above And so I will read from this certificate.
Presented to Betsy Sticks, in deep appreciation for and recognition of your commitment to public service and to the residents of the city of Ojai, commendations are conveyed for your dedication and leadership to our community as mayor 2020-2024. Congratulations Mayor.
1:01 – 1:0725 turns
Next is Supervisor Matt LaVere's office.
I'll only be about 20 minutes. I'm kidding. So my name is Clint Garman and I am here to represent Supervisor Matt LeVere, they had the Board of Supervisors in Simi Valley so it was kind of a last minute adjustment, sorry you didn't get to see his beautiful face this evening but he definitely wanted to make sure that the commendations were going to these beautiful folks here in Ojai and the representation that you've done so well.
So on behalf of the Board of Supervisors, commending Sousa Francina, Ojai City Council 1996 to 2000 and 2016 to 2024 in recognition of your unwavering dedication and exceptional commitment to serving the citizens of Ojai. I want to say thank you. It's our first dance. And next for commending our mayor Betsy Sticks, the Ohio City Mayor from 2020 to 2024 in recognition of your unwavering dedication and exceptional commitment to serving the citizens of Ojai. Supervisor LaVere wishes to thank you and welcome and doing a fantastic job Second that.
All right, the City Council's arranged for some refreshments and cookies if you guys want to enjoy. Will we take a quick break?
Wait a minute. Carl don't we swear them in next after the break? Oh I thought it was before.
We're gonna we were going to swear in the new council members so So we'll be doing the oath of office. I'll administer the first oath of office as I've been deputized by City Clerk Cynthia Burrell, and I'll do that to our incoming City Council—I'm sorry, City Clerk Steve Quillesee, and then he'll administer the oaths of office to the incoming council members. If you'd like to join me at the podium?
You'd raise your right hand and repeat after me. I, state your name. I Steve Tbilisi Do solemnly affirm that I will support Do solemnly affirm that I will support
And
defend the Constitution of the United States
And defend the Constitution of the United States
And the Constitution of the State of California
And the Constitution of the State of California
Against all enemies foreign and domestic
Against all enemies foreign and domestic
That I will bear true faith and allegiance
That I will bear true faith and allegiance
to the Constitution of the United States. The Constitution of the United States And the Constitution Of the State of California
And the Constitution of the State of California
That I take this obligation freely
I take this obligation
freely Without any mental reservation
Without any mental reservation
Or purpose of evasion Or purpose of evasion And that I will with That I will well and faithfully discharge And that I will well and faithfully discharge
the duties upon which I am about to enter. The duties upon which I'm about to enter. Oh Okay, oh you need you need to go first.
Oh,
okay. Very
good
1:07 – 1:1223 turns
Separate yeah, okay So raise your right hand and repeat after me I state your name
I, Steve Olson,
do solemnly affirm that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United
States
and the Constitution of the State of California against all enemies foreign and domestic. That I bear true faith and allegiance to the Constitution of the United States And the Constitution of the State of California.
That
I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties upon which I'm about to enter Congratulations in your re-election. One at a time, thank you. Mayor elect Gilman All right, raise your right hand and repeat. I, state your
name,
do solemnly affirm that I will support and defend the
Constitution of the United States and
the Constitution of the State
of California against all enemies foreign
and domestic That I will bear true faith and allegiance
to the Constitution of the United States,
and the Constitution of the State of California.
That I take this obligation freely without
any mental reservation or purpose of evasion.
And that I will well and faithfully discharge
The duties upon which I am about to
enter.
Congratulations. And I forgot to mention there's a certificate of election from. City. Certifying your new office Kim All right, if you'll raise your right hand and repeat. I, and state your name, do solemnly affirm that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the State of California against all enemies. That I will bear truth faith and allegiance to the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the State of California, that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation.
That's
a hard one. For purpose of evasion and that I will well and faithfully discharge The duties upon which I am about to end. Congratulations. Carl, I think we're done.
1:13 – 1:143 turns
Without ill and then also Weston So I thought oh, they're both out ill. So I'll just say that no it was for you. Yeah Okay so certificate of special congressional recognition presented to Planning Commissioner Steve Kualisi in Recognition of eight years of commitment and dedicated service on the City of Ojai Planning Commission from 2016 to 2024 congratulations
We wanted a third dance partner too so apologies. So on behalf of Supervisor. Matt LeVere. Commending Steve Clizzi. City of Ojai Planning Commission from 2016 24. Thank you so much.
All right, if we can get one photo with the new council members and then we'll go ahead and start our break. And you can partake in the refreshments over here. Oh, you got it?
1:32 – 1:389 turns
Do we need to do another roll call? Are we ready to go? Let's do another roll
call to
acknowledge the change.
Roll call — called by Mara
Show transcript
Thank you. Let's start with commission reports. I believe Brian Eakins
is here
Thank you, Mayor. Brian Akins, Chair of the Historic Preservation Commission. Happy to be here tonight. Welcome to our new mayor, our new councilperson and this is kind of a blend between commission reports and public communications since I couldn't speak before what just took place so I do want to thank the Council, those that have just left and are continuing for their ongoing support to the Historic Preservation Commission.
Very much appreciate that also the support of the Ojai Valley Museum. Just kind of an update on commissions for our commission. And some of the things that were said earlier in the last two years, we have had six commissioners put forth for our commission, six commissioners. We just went through a reappointment of three commissioners. Those happened in my opinion smoothly.
There were some timeframes and talking about applications that were put in place that did take awhile to get to. That happens, fortunately those folks hung in with us and I believe they have been sworn in. So again thank you we are currently at seven where we know for sure that six of them have been sworn in the seventh one Bridget was trying to text Weston to see if that person got sworn in so So we have seven approved, we may have six that are sworn in. Thank you very much for that.
I'd also like to thank the previous council which includes many of those that are currently here on our new council going forward for your support for the Ojai Valley Museum which is supportive to the Historic Preservation Commission so i could just say it was part of my commission report One of the things this council supported two years ago was our going forward on the Ojai Civic Center Historic District. We'll be picking that up again, renewing the efforts and the focus on that in January.
We've had other projects that have taken time and again we've had the slower number of people. I'm following my guidelines down here, lines going everywhere else. Our HPC does look forward to working with the new council. One of the requests that I've suggested and that we've asked is that we, the HPC have a priority with the council in having a joint session And so we haven't had one of those in over a year and a half. And we're right at a point where we need to get some guidance, some understanding and share where we are on our projects with you and have that interaction with you. And so we really would appreciate that.
I'm just checking my map real well. The other thing, one person that I wanna thank in getting recently and getting our commissioners in place again we just reappointed three and we have two brand new people and that is our not here tonight Weston because he's not feeling well. Weston has been wonderful to work with through this process as well as each of the council members For us, there's been a little bit of shifting to what we thought was taking place but it all came together. We got the clarification and now have those commissioners in place and again seven approved. And that's gonna help us in forming our ad hoc committee meetings and being able to talk to more than just one other person. Being able to talk with having three of us on that commission.
Loving where we're at, loving deeply the Councilwoman Francina. I actually had followed Susan when she was on the original commission and when I heard she was coming back I was like whoa this is going to be interesting And I look forward to it. And being able to work with Mayor Sticks over these past four years, she has always been supportive in calls when I have placed her and provided some quandary or some guidance and direction. And so I very much appreciate the relationship that we've had over those years. And I do look forward to each of you in doing exactly what we're asked to do as a commission, historically protect the community.
And that's what we love. Thank you again very much.
Thanks Mr. Eakins and just so you know in my future agenda items I'll be listing that joint session that we can get that on the calendar.
Excellent! I'll report that Thursday night in our HPC meeting. Thank you.
Next we have Ron Solorzano from the library.
1:38 – 1:436 turns
All right. Hello good evening members of council congratulations to our new additions as well. Good to see you all my name is Ron Solorzano I am the regional librarian for the Ojai Valley and I'm here today to just give you a quick update on some of what we have going on at the Ojai Library So for some of our younger folks, we're going to be hosting a DIY calendar making activity on December 15th from noon to 2pm. Families are invited to design and create their own unique calendars to keep you organized and inspired throughout 2025 We are also going to be holding a stuffed animal sleepover event this month with a drop-off on December 21st and a pickup on December 22nd. So you can drop off your stuffies and pick them up the next day to hear about all the adventures they had spending the night in the library.
We are also starting to host Teen Thursdays at the library after school. So this is time for teens to come by and take part in what we have to offer there. This Thursday, we're going to be playing some tabletop games and then on December 19th, we're gonna be making friendship bracelets. You can call or drop by the library for more information on whatever we're doing week-to-week about that.
Finally, in January the Ventura County Library will partner with Interface Children and Family Services to host a series of presentations during Human Trafficking Prevention and Awareness Month. The presentation which is called Labor Trafficking 101 is going to take place at the Ojai Library on Tuesday, January 14th at 6 p.m. This community awareness presentation is designed to help define human trafficking and labor trafficking, identify helpful services and resources, and explain about labor trafficking along the Central Coast.
We have so much more also happening at the Ojai Library including one-on-one career coaching, adult literacy support, ukulele poetry and Shakespeare clubs, book club kits, weekly story times, Lego play sessions and more. If you want details on any of these programs you can drop by the library or you can visit us online at www.vencolibrary.org Thank you all so much and have a wonderful evening.
Thank you so much Next we'll have Leslie Clark then Tim Kraut and then Ruth Miller
Hello I'm Leslie Clark and I've been a vocal supporter of Measure O. And I just wanted to come tonight to make a brief closure of, and positive closure of this four year battle. I was going to thank the Old City Council for your patience in listening to our impassioned pleas late into the night But we never agreed. We never agreed with the opponents of Measure O, but in reality we were all fighting for the same thing.
We wanted to make Ojai a better place because we love it and we just had different visions of what that meant. So I want to thank the voters for passing this measure because it would have been such a shame to waste those beautiful courts. Thank you.
Thank you. Then Tim Kraut, then Ruth Miller and then Larry Stangle.
Good evening, Council staff. I'm Tim Kraut, a 63-year resident of Ojai. I want to thank the outgoing mayor, which I think she's left the building, Betsy, for all the service that she had given us and talking to us over the last couple years. Appreciate that. I also want to thank Sousa Francina for coming to us and talking to us, and giving of her time and effort in trying to get some more time for Pickleball.
I want to welcome Andy Gilman and Kimberly Mang for your election. And I hope that this will be a start of healing I especially want to thank all the citizens who signed the pickleball petition placing Measure O on the November ballot and to thank everyone who voted for or against Measure O, allowing our democratic process to work. Our pickleball community looks forward to returning to the City Hall courts and invite all of you to come and play with us.
We always welcome newcomers and we have many players willing to teach you the game. Also, thank you to the city for investing in the courts at So Park giving the pickleball players multiple venues to choose from. Thank you. Thank You
Mr. Crabb Ruth Miller then Larry Steingold and then Daryl Ralston
1:44 – 1:494 turns
Good evening I'm Ruth Miller with the in-house task force. On December 4th of this year, I made a public comment to the Planning Commission regarding the police calls to service to Tent Town. Unbeknownst to me at the time there are two addresses for Ojai City Hall so my report was incomplete. I have since received this information and have added it to this report Even with the additional information, there's a tremendous decline in the number of police calls to Tent Hound since the city hired Amy Weiss with St. Francis Challenges Resident Steward Model and a security firm on July 1st.
Prior to my comments to the Planning Commission, I spoke to Chief Trina Newman and questioned two codes comprising over half of the calls. They were labeled busy and public service. She explained that the codes represent an officer initiated visit and usually means a walkthrough. These are not calls from the public. Chief Newman mentioned that most of the calls involved a handful of residents, and in particular one resident who had calls about him most days and sometimes even twice today.
This resident and several other problematic behaviors have been exited from Tent Town after breaking the Good Neighbor Agreement. She said That being exited that since being exited these previous residents are rarely seen by the police. Tent town is much safer and less volatile environment since Amy Weiss came on board and exited people due to their behavioral issues.
I called Chief Moonman this morning. We're best friends now and asked for a little more information regarding a couple of calls for 1-1-1 Santa Ana Street which seemed particularly serious. A violation of restaining order involves someone who has since been exited from Tent Town. Stolen vehicle was determined to be a civil matter where someone gave permission to borrow a vehicle Then changed their mind.
Trespassing was by someone who had been exited but came back to tent town and was making a disturbance. I'm not law enforcement, nor are the members of public who are also referring to this report. The calls for service log requires a greater degree of understanding and nuance than neither I nor the other members of the public are in possession of. The report in its current form should not be used to fuel fear of the unhoused.
The police involvement with the unhoused is more complex than it would initially appear. Please reach out to Chief Newman for accurate information and a better understanding. She is approachable and a wonderful asset to our community.
Thank you, Ms. Millard. Next, Larry Steingold, Daryl Ralston and then William
Wyrick. Larry Steingold, thank you. Welcome to the new City Council and thank you for everyone, Betsy and Souza because I know it's a lot of work just showing up and listening to us and me is a lot of work going forward I think the process and transparency is what people want. I appreciate City Councilor Ruhl regarding the interviews, if you could make that an ordinance where it's part of the forever deal unless it's changed, that would be nice but the issues coming forward are e-bikes some sort of action. I know the Chief is doing her best but maybe some more local city ordinance action Fire hardening, it's cost me $5,000 in trees for the past two months to actually get insurance. The over boom ordinance which I believe the city manager said he was working on last city.
But the process and projects, and maybe I know the mayor's meeting once a month at Libby to talk to people but it's sort of unofficial. But if you can make that maybe more official like a Tuesday night every other week to listen to members of the city or the public they have ideas so that things just don't appear on the agenda as ready-to-go. It just sort of appeared. And I know a lot of groups are out there and they put together projects and they deliver them to you over the transom or under the door or through the mailbox. That's okay, but the average person we're pushing and pulling.
But we came to Ojai, we all came here because we like Ojai. We like Ojai the way it is. It's nice. Please try to maintain it as best you can. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Steingold. Daryl Ralston and then William Wyrick and then Jeffrey Starkweather.
1:49 – 1:566 turns
Mayor and council, my name is Daryl Ralston. I'm the current president of the Persimmon Hill Homeowners Association. And I'd first like to congratulate both Andy and Kim for successful campaigns and welcome to City Council. It takes a lot of dedication and a lot of hard work and a lot of effort and for the community to embrace you. The Persimmon Hill community does embrace you. We thank you.
Please know that the Persimmon Hill community would like to offer our assistance any way we can to make Ojai a safe community. Our communities recognized the fire danger in Ojai and we were able to acquire a $500,000 grant to remove invasive trees in our common area hopefully that will start sometime in the spring through the Fire Safe Council We also recognize the homeless issue, the existence of Tent Town and the proposed cabin village.
And we continue to support the effort to find a location that's not in a residential area. What we would ask you to do is to look for a location that's not in a residential area, that involves a stakeholders group. That everybody can be involved in the decision and the city can I guess come out of this issue of transparency. Well thank you.
Thank You Mr. Ralston William Wyrick Jeffrey Starkweather and then Michelle Thomas
Welcome to the reorganized council. The new adventure begins, but we'll have to get straight that Andy's in a mang-lang thing. We'll figure it out. I noticed that! You know, I think that trying to be very positive looking forward. That in the campaign for the one office that represents the whole city, the mayor's office there was a lot of discussion about Improving, learning from the past and doing better going forward with the whole structure of city governance. I think there's some lessons to have been learned over the last few years.
I think they—the public clearly expressed a desire for a recommitment to due diligence, inclusion, transparency of the entire community in the decision-making process of city governance and best practices. I'm really glad to see the progress that's been made on reintegrating commissions into the governance structure of our city. It's always been an essential part of what makes Ojai special, and I think it hit a few rocky places, and we need to get back to smooth integration of commissions and boards and ad hoc groups into the governance of our city.
In service to that, I want to make a couple points. One is that includes the council working very well with the two people that they appoint, the city manager and the city attorney. I want to point out with respect to the City Attorney that most cities, if you look it up, most agencies have RFPs. In fact, the city manager pointed out why it's a good thing to have RFPs regularly every three to five years or so for city attorney services, kind of like you do for auditors.
We haven't had an RFP for city attorney services since 2015. And it makes, there's no sort of inference about whether or not the current city attorney services are appropriate. But it's quite appropriate that you have a regular RFP process for City Attorney Services if you just look at best practices in the rest of the county and other agencies other than cities. The last thing I want to say is that my feeling is that my experience has been That it would be very helpful for a newly reconstituted council to go and have a very appropriate type of closed session with the city manager, performance review and discussion as soon as possible.
To get on a good foundation going forward between the newly reconstituted council and the city manager because that's the only time that a lot of discussions can freely occur so thank you very much
Thank you, Mr. Wyrick. Jeffrey Starkweather, Michelle Thomas and then Ian Campbell
Good evening City Council and citizens. Excuse me, fighting the cold. Congratulations Kim for getting on there and appreciate you stepping up because we've had trouble because of these districts getting people to run for office. Obviously I want to thank Andy for running what I want to talk about though is something that political scientists call a mandate And it's a rare thing that happens, rare. I've been involved in elections for like 30 years and I can only recall two other occasions but we have that rare circumstance now.
Andy won the only person in this council to run citywide with 64% of the vote. It was a high turnout election 76%. And he ran on a particular platform that citizens recognized. I know they're recognized, I went to every single house in this city with canvassing and we had ads in the newspaper and Andy had tons of meetings with people and it was the same message over and over again and it wasn't about top particular policy which is about process Because democracy is about process, it's not about end results. A liberal democracy is where we can have disagreements about policy but we have a process where we all get heard.
The two things that he ran on and I think people voted on one was transparency and the second was citizen input before the city council discusses something here as deliberation. I think that involves the citizen input, and someone just mentioned stakeholders. But it needs to be inclusive, which means inclusive stakeholders means that you get everybody who's going to be affected by the decision as some kind of representation in the input.
And secondly, It means deliberative. So I promote the idea of deliberative democracy. Now, this city council is supposed to deliberate. It hasn't done a whole lot of that in the last two years in my opinion. Deliberation means you listen to each other, you go back and forth, you ask questions, you analyze the facts, you consider alternatives, you look at unintended consequences to your policy and you try to reach consensus We need that same process, and there are tools for it like stakeholder committees or meetings where the citizens have an opportunity before you all get to it to see if they can reach a consensus or maybe a compromise and can present that to you so we don't have to come up here and speak for only three minutes because that is not deliberation.
Thank you, Mr. Starkweather. We timed that perfectly. Thank you. Michelle Thomas and then Ian Campbell.
1:57 – 2:0623 turns
Hello, I'm Michelle Thomas, City of Ojai. Mayor Andy, Council and City Manager Ben I have a question. Why are we still having city council meetings in Kent Hall? You guys have a much nicer meeting table you have better chairs in the Smith-Hobson house not to mention a kitchen more bathrooms and better outdoor lighting Mayor Andy and Council, I hope you'll consider relocating council meetings back to their traditional location. The lack of lighting around Kent Hall is a real safety issue. Thank you.
Hello, new and continuing City Council members. I am here tonight with both a comment and a question. Given that our newly elected representatives have sworn in their oaths this evening, I find it important to emphasize my personal support for the Cabin Village project as well as uplifting the support for that project of many within our community. It is no secret that the city, county, state, and indeed the country are facing a housing crisis.
As representatives of the city of Ojai, you have a duty to ensure access to safe and affordable housing for the community. The 12 plus million dollar grant from the state is an incredible resource to provide permanent housing for an unhoused community whose needs should be of the utmost concern to the City Council. This should be the main priority—to provide permanent housing and not just temporary shelters.
My question and perhaps the city manager, I don't know if they'll have time for that later to answer this in this meeting is what is the current status of the Cabin Village project? And what are the steps to ensure that the grant money is utilized quickly and efficiently to provide for those that need it most. It seems like many steps have already been figured out from what I have heard with Dignity Moves, doing the housing contracting help of Ojai for case management and the residents of Tent Town themselves and other in-house people ready to move forward.
What are the stages on the Planning Commission? On the City Council? And then just other details like the cost model and the location so thank you.
Mr. Campbell, I can answer just to say that next year when we reconvene, I think that we will do something very public and talk about everything that is known and everything that is to be determined. So I think all of us are wondering the same things you're wondering about.
What's the date for
that? Not set yet. Okay, thank you. Thank you. Ms. Morrow, is there anything online?
Yes Mayor, we have one raised hand online, two raised hands. We have Mark Bodycomb and Sunny Side. Hold on one moment here. Mark, you have the floor.
Thank you very much I just wanted to join Tim and Leslie in recognizing and thanking Betsy and Azusa for their years of service to the city and Andy and Kim welcome to The City Council, and again I have been a very active proponent of Measure O and want to thank all those who voted for it. And that we really do look forward to working with the new City Council, the city manager and his staff and and the neighbors still you know recognizing that legitimate concerns and issues that have been articulated all along but Like Leslie said, I just want to thank everyone for particularly those who voted for Measure O to really recognize the importance and value of Pickleball as a rapidly growing community and source of exercise and enjoyment for hundreds and hundreds of people who live in the Ojai Valley, and again thank you to the city.
Like Tim said for the beautiful courts out at Soule Park my wife and I use them regularly but are also looking forward to having the option we live right downtown and getting back to using the courts at City Hall as well and just working again cooperatively to just make it a wonderful part of our wonderful community so thank you to everyone. I appreciate it.
Thank you very much anything else Ismara?
We do have a sunny side as well. Sunnyside, you are ready.
Hi good evening this is actually this is PD Don when I don't know why that came up that way but I just wanted to say welcome to Mayor Andy and Councilmember Kim. I also wanted to extend my thanks to I want to thank former mayor Betsy and former council member Sousa. I will miss Souza's thoughtful questions and input it was always so nice to hear her share her thoughts, and I want to thank former Mayor Betsy Staffing the commissions, I think that's really exciting. It was so nice to see work being done in that regard and I am very excited to see continued work with our new mayor and council moving forward. Thank you so much!
That is all. Thank
you. Okay, thank you that's the end of the public comments so we'll move on to discussion item number
two Mr. Mayor oh please I'm sorry to interrupt did i miss something? You did not I just wanted uh to call out that if it's your pleasure staff is happy to provide you with brief answers if there are questions and public comments you'd like to have answered if you don't want those questions answered briefly that's your prerogative you are chairing the meeting
Thank you. I would like to open that up to anybody if somebody had a question about something that was said, I would happily entertain it. Was there something that you felt needed to be said?
I just identified two things, I think we could answer pretty quickly. One question was about why we're meeting in here versus City Hall? And the answer is there's actually several reasons. One access, the number of people were able to accommodate here versus over in the old location. We had security concerns. Yes, there were bathrooms but there are also ways to get into City Hall that we couldn't really block off without really changing the building itself There were also issues with hearing the meeting if you weren't actually in one of the assigned seats. And with a number of doors and the hallways and so forth, it created little pockets of conversation so that people wouldn't be having a full discussion when there's a meeting going on and other people couldn't hear.
So anyway we've made several upgrades to this room notably with the audio visual also with the, you can see the signs on the wall with the hearing Impaired so we've invested in this room. We certainly could invest more, we'd be happy to buy nicer chairs or other things that would make it more accommodating but we've put a lot into this area so that it could be the council meeting room that serves more people in a better way.
Sure, and so I'm out on that point the person who had the question about that Mentioned that the lighting is not great And I'm not gonna disagree with that and maybe we could you know do some motion lights or something but we got a look at Providing a better lighted pathway for people. You know, that's
a
really good
idea
We can do that. We're always a little mindful in this dark sky community not to blow that up too much, but I think motion lights or something like that would make sense, or lights that are on only during the meeting, et cetera. There's a number of ways to address that. The other question if you want me to respond quickly is... process for the proposed Cabin Village project. At this point, it has gone before the Planning Commission in November and is scheduled to go back before the Planning Commission in February. And at that meeting in February we are going to be trying to answer as many questions from the Planning Commission and the public as we can After it goes to the Planning Commission in February, it is then gonna come back to the City Council either in February or March.
There will be an article on the process and the status of the proposed project in this next Ojai Outlook newsletter which will be sent to every address in Ojai. We expect that to go out in January. Thank you.
I thought you made the chairs in here uncomfortable so we would deliberate effectively and then leave earlier, but maybe I had
that all wrong. There's some truth to that.
Okay! Thank you for your suggestion though Mr. Whitman, I agree 100%. So on to discussion item two nomination and appointment of the Mayor Pro Tem staff?
Yes, we're gonna hand this over Mr. Mayor to our Assistant City Manager in the absence of our Chief Deputy City Clerk. So Mr. Alameda would you please take this item?
2:06 – 2:1718 turns
Thank you, happy to do so. So tonight before the City Council is a resolution to appoint the next Mayor Pro Tem for a one-year term that would start tonight. So the Mayor Pro Tem would basically serve the function of mayor if the mayor was to be absent at a meeting or other events. The duties of the mayor are presiding over the city council meetings we're at tonight Representing the city at various either ceremonial or civic events.
Signing documents on behalf of the city, such as ordinances or resolutions that come before the council. And then also making recommendations to appointments to city boards and commissions for consideration of the council. And then also serving on various regional county boards and in other cities and commissions as well. So if the mayor was absent for any or all of those functions, the Mayor Pro Tem would step in and assume those duties.
So tonight the recommendation is what we're asking from the council Is that a nomination be made? For one member of the council to serve as the mayor pro tem who obviously would not be the mayor So one of the other four and then seek a second and then discuss And if there's not a second that another nomination would be
made. Mm-hmm
Thank you.
I Guess I want to open it up, please. Mr. Whitman
I'd like to nominate Rachel Lang To serve as Mayor Pro Tem As soon as it told me that I was free to grow my own hat in the ring for another term, but I really love to see Rachel do that. I know she's doing a lot of work that it would help her to have that designation and yeah. Thank you. Do I have a second on that?
Yeah, I'll second it. Um, I just do want to say that before my term ends, I'd like to be Mayor Pro Tem too. Well there we go! There it is! I could care less if it's this year or next year but I would like the opportunity. I appreciate that. But I completely support Councilmember Lange as Mayor Pro Tem for sure.
Thank you. As do I.
Thank you so much, I'm gonna have big shoes to fill That was a pivotal moment though So thank you. I'd be honored. I appreciate it.
Thank you. So let's call the vote please
Roll-call vote Passed 5–0
Show transcript
If only everything goes that easy, we're going to be in great shape. All right
let's move on to item number three resolution to approve the City of Ojai Earth-Friendly Management Policy. Mr. Harvey?
Yes Mr. Mayor you're going to be receiving a report this evening from Ms. Palmer your Public Works Director.
Thank
you. Let me repeat that. So first off, I would like to say congratulations to our new mayor and new council member. I'm super happy to have you and and I am so honored to have the first roll call item in front of the new council. So I have a slide here we go. So this item has been before many councils before you It's been discussed in the city for a number of years, maybe up to 10 years from what I can gather.
So it is I will be asking you tonight to approve a resolution and a policy on an earth friendly management policy. So I have a slide presentation because I wanted to spend a few moments to really sort of I'm not touching on every single thing in the resolution or policy, but I really wanted to touch on some of the items there's a lot of of things of this nature. We have rights of nature, we have earth-friendly policy and I just want to make sure that everybody understands what this is.
Again, this has been before council as recently as a couple months ago This is what I'm asking tonight, it's just adoption of the resolution and policy. We have implemented everything I will be talking about. It's been implemented for five or six years, all of these practices. We call them BMPs, Best Management Practices. So they were implemented some time ago but we're ratifying our practice and turning it into policy. So with that, I just wanted to start off by just describing what an earth friendly policy is. And it establishes again best management practices for and we are also only talking about city owned or lease leased facilities. We're not talking about anything else.
So in an efficient, effective and environmentally responsible manner while paying careful attention to public safety, the environment and the natural resources. In addition to developing a problem solving strategy that designates natural organic approach to dealing with pests, rodents, et cetera. So that is what this is all about. And again, we are already doing this So a little bit of an introduction, I've already mentioned this too. This has been around for quite some time and I'm asking you to adopt a resolution or policy tonight. We want to in our resolution we state that we recognize that the use of chemical pesticides on city-owned property is hazardous to humans wildlife in the natural environment and I think we can all agree on that We are also committed to utilizing available safe and effective non-pesticide alternatives.
For example, we start with the least toxic, the least poisonous, the least harmful to the environment and to humans as we can. And we go up from there. We will also create a framework for the treatment of pests in a responsible manner that promotes public safety. And I also wanted to make mention that I worked with a group of local subject matter experts. I worked with Kathy Nolan, Patty Pagling and I think Renee Roth may still be in the audience is the only other one in the audience. So I worked with the group of I call them my unofficial committee. But we met a couple of times and I've had some discussions with them and we work through what I'm showing you tonight, what I am sharing with you tonight So I don't want to spend a whole lot of time on this slide at all because I think we all realize what the benefits are of using natural pesticides.
It's more friendly to the environment, of course. They work better over the long run. Pests and insects, et cetera, they don't develop a tolerance to what we're doing. And natural pesticides are clearly healthier for pets and children than our food garden as well. Natural pesticides can be better for the quality of our soil, for our gardens as well. So go green!
So the components, the policy itself and I'm going to just drill it down in just a couple of slides. There's nine page, I think seven, eight, nine pages and the policy if adopted tonight will be posted on our website along with our approved pesticide list which I'm also asking you to approve along with this. So section one is a preamble. I'm not gonna spend any time on that tonight The policy is section 2 guidelines for the selection of the pesticide is in section 3 and contracts notifications and record-keeping in section 4 So
and
I'll just briefly talk about these and then I'll be open for discussion And if you have any caught any questions as we go along feel free So Section 2 is the policy goals, and that is to protect public health by restricting the use of hazardous chemicals and pesticides again on city-owned property. And ensure that the citizens of Ojai can safely use their structures and recreation areas, all of our parks, etc., and to designate all parks, grass playgrounds, structures, etc., to be a pesticide free zone, which again was implemented some years ago.
Inorganic pesticides, the ones that are on our list are to be used only on an emergency basis. This is after we have have tried all of these sort of holistic approaches sealing food containers, sealing holes in buildings, you know, access points, et cetera. So we will try those things first and then move on to our list. So the policy administration is in section section two And that is it's administrated by the public works director, but all city departments will be required to comply and they will go through me or whomever is in this chair.
We will apply the BMPs to prevent pest infestations while eliminating pesticide use. And again, we will review and consider all non-chemical options first, and we just go up from there. So and we will we will be required to maintain our records if we choose to go Onto our list and we will comply with the course all state and federal regulations And organic pesticides will only be used on an emergency basis.
So Any questions so far? Okay, I'm seeing lots of a question down there.
Yes. Yeah, so Section 2 sub C Sub four Talks about traps and baits and It says we're gonna use non-lethal traps for what I assume to be rats And ground squirrels or at least if this was happening at my house, it would be And so What's the idea of what we do with a non-lethal trap with those rats and ground squirrels?
Well, as mentioned we have a reason there are rats in our homes and there's usually an access point. So we would start by trying to seal the access point. Some people suggest kitty cats which I'm fine with you know so those sorts of things. Ground squirrels? I'm not really sure because we're dealing with ground squirrels all over the place So, and then there's this other threshold that perhaps we begin to live with these creatures.
You know? I mean it's a personal choice.
2:17 – 2:2431 turns
So as I understand the way this is organized, you have a statement of the practices generally. And then you go to subsection C2, which is the cultural controls.
Yes.
So we're modifying the environment to try to take care of the pest problem?
Correct.
And then under three, we do physical barriers.
Yes
But when we get to four, we're using traps. And I want to I want to I guess I'd ask this as a question or you know so we trap a rat what are we going to do with that? And and I'd also I guess throw out there that I don't have a concern if we used a lethal trap for a rodent after going through the other methods and finding out that it wasn't doing a good enough job.
I would really like to see us just have a lethal trap for our rats.
Understood. And this section in the policy doesn't, the intent is not for rats. The intent is if a raccoon comes into your home we want to be able to trap that and release it outside. It doesn't belong in your house you don't want it there it doesn' t want to be here but we don't necessarily want to kill it. So we would like to trap it and move it back to where it belongs.
That is the intent of that section.
So the policy is not to capture a rat and then take it somewhere
else and
release it?
No, that's not our plan. I'm
interpreting the trap and release when appropriate means hardly ever. Our intent is not to trap the rats in our home. Thank you and release them.
Thank you. Okay, good Mr. Whitman Yeah, okay one more
Um, if we've got termite infestation of a wood construction building are we doing is tenting among the options that we would go to or is that something that has been precluded by How the policies
that has not been precluded in Ojai termite. We are on board they are on board with our policy and we have been working with them on this I can't tell you exactly what they use at this moment in time but they are onboard with this policy
So we go to the non-lethal kind of measures first. Yes. But if we do get to the point where we haven't stopped the infestation in one of our buildings, we're going to go ahead and tent it. We are. OK?
Yes. Thank you. And we have that ability to do so.
Thanks.
So the guidelines are in section three, and this is adopting a list of organic pesticides. And that is attached to your packet tonight and then limited use with emergency exemption. So we are going here we go. We're just trying to find viable alternatives every chance we get. And and so far we have been successful. I mean it. I'll be honest. It's challenging. We have this building that we're in right now in City Hall.
Some large rodents that we are. I don't work in that building, but I hear about them.
Yeah.
So Ben's shaking his head? Yes. And you're shaking these these folks who work in City Hall organic pesticides only used on an emergency or emergency basis and will select the pesticides the least the most effective, the least toxic.
Thank you.
So we also have a section in the policy that we staff, since this only applies to city buildings and facilities. We have this requirement to report and to notify so and contractors we hire I just mentioned El High Pest and termite all contractors we use need to be on board with this policy and we will make sure of that. And we're also As after tonight and when this, I'll just say that. When this gets approved tonight we will be putting together a manual for our public works crew as well so they know again they're already complying with this but we would probably officiate that as well and we'll maintain all records of pesticides that we end up using I wanted to point out one more item that I would like to personally discuss, and that is our approved list includes some oils.
All of the pesticides on our approved list are made to eradicate pests or used to eradicate pests. They also are toxic to these critters on the screen This is their theatrical debut, these are my pets. But I just wanted to make sure that if anybody out there would like to implement these and use these in their homes, to be mindful that they may be harmful to your pets. And I think that's important.
With that, I can answer
any questions.
Any questions for staff? Please.
So I have a question on that subject. So do we have any staff who is bringing like a service dog or service animal or do we have any pets dogs or cats that would be affected by these?
We do not have a pet policy allowing employees to bring their pets to work, and if I could just really expound upon why you would think we would in Ojai. But what we've learned over time is that not everyone is comfortable with the dog or cat in the workplace. Yeah.
And I would just add if an employee does come to work for us who has a service animal then we would of course adjust their working environment to accommodate that but at present we don't have any employees who have service animals but if one did come we would absolutely accommodate that foremost.
Thank you. Any other questions for staff?
Yes, I'm just saying what about the dogs for the people that live in tent town. I know some of them have animals and that's city property
2:24 – 2:3019 turns
It's an excellent question. So Tent Town, not only is it a concern when we are applying any type of prevention but Tent Town is also part of the reason why we have a rodent issue. Lindy do you want to expound upon that? Yeah
I can speak to that a little bit. For starters we have not used any chemicals at all In in since twenty nineteen. So if we needed to because there was a significant infestation, we also would be notifying people. There's a noticing requirement built into the policy so we would notice, we would go through Ames and notice that there is going to be an application. I don't expect that to happen at Tent Town. I really
don't.
It's uncontrollable. The rodent infestation is not in control, but I don't want to impact the residents and their pets. Because what do we do? They don't have a place to go. So we're mindful of that. I just want to assure you.
Please fill out a card and give it to Ms. Marra. Then I can put you in line with the other public comments. And then
just one more question. You said that you've been implementing this for like the last five years, but then I noticed there's training and education to educate the staff So how far is that if you've been implementing this program for the last five years to what degree? Is it
so staff has been trained
there? This is OK.
Yes, this is just this is ratifying really the practice is what this is doing memorializing it officially.
Yeah.
So they have been trained. We we know what we are doing. We know what we can do and what we can't do.
Thank you. Any more questions for staff? Yeah, go.
So if this has been used since 2019 and you're having it hasn't been successful like has it worked for you or further? Yeah. Go ahead. I was just wondering if we've been doing this already, has it been effective? Has it been working? Are there any...
You know, it has been working. It is tolerable and we can tolerate. And part of this whole policy is a shift in thinking and what can we tolerate. I have an ant or two on my desk And you know, I just walk it outside. You know, it's just a mindset shift in part. Sorry. I have people coming in my office and they're about to do it and it's like don't. They're going outside.
So
OK, so that raises the question for me because I want you to be able to I mean, I have a certain amount of appreciation for what we're trying to do for these least intrusive means first and to graduate. But I want to make sure that you have your ability to do your job, which includes keeping control of these pests. Do you feel like this policy gives you everything you need to make sure we have a as pest free environment as we can? Or do we need to make some changes that will make it easier for you to get that done?
And I appreciate that concern. What what we have done in over the last five years since 2019 is nothing besides ceiling poles, traps. We have not gone to this list yet. We have not gone to this list so that would be our next move and we will be doing that after tonight in all likelihood. So, but again there's a component in the policy that requires us to notify. Requires us to report it. Requires us to keep the records and we haven't done that because we haven't used them so in the absence of a Formal policy. We've just been erring on the side of let's just not even work through this So I so to answer your question, I believe we can manage it with this policy And and here's the other caveat if we don't feel we can we will come back to council
and ask thank you
That would be the next move. You adopt this policy, you can also make exemptions to it. So it's not embedded in the policy but if and some questions have come up when we were doing the restoration project here out at Middle Stewart Canyon. We have some very invasive species. We have a rundo which is very difficult to address. We would be coming back to you if we ever have another project like that and say here's the contract to do the work we need an exemption. And so, we would be looking to you five for the approval to do that.
Anything else? Okay let me open up to public comments first Bill Miley then Renee Roth and then Casey Abbott
2:30 – 2:353 turns
Hello. This effort to eliminate unintended harm from pesticides is certainly worthy. I do have a concern for the proposed method of managing rats and mice, which you've already talked about. Both are disease carriers in different ways. And in my email to the city, I had a section I copied from the National Park Service on that. But you need to know, and I found this. I remember, I learned this about five years ago, I forgot it.
It's against the California state law to live trap animals and move them without a permit. So it's against the law to recommend this. You can't have that in this ordinance. In researching for this email that I sent on reading from, there are products which will reduce the fertility of rats and mice temporarily. You lower the numbers in the area. The product doesn't kill or maim. It has a dispensing box.
And an example is the product Evolve. Look at it. Also, I researched the approved pesticide list looking on pages 13-14. Specifically the fungicide Bacillus amylolequefasciens. And it works on fungus. I've had a major problem with a valley oak that's about 40 feet tall, and each year it has fungus that kills, if I don't treat it, all the leaves. It's good to know.
I certainly support the document except for live trapping and releasing. Before I knew it was illegal, I was going to suggest that the city have a chicken coop and people can bring their live rats and mice down there. You can deal with them, but forget that. Please consider feeding them reduced fertility food. That'll help put the population.
Thank you, Mr. Miley. Rene Roth, Casey Abbott and then Sousa Francina
Good evening members of the council and congratulations on your new posts. I'm very happy for you So we did meet and I was really grateful for the opportunity to meet and talk about How positively the city has been taking action to not use pesticides And I'm grateful for that. And I'm grateful that they really understand, Lindy really understands, the staff really understands the prevention and maintenance responsibilities that are inherent in this.
I also was really happy that we could get the notification If anything is being used, and there are dogs or animals around the notification part is in the ordinance as well. So that to me is something that would help if they ever had to be used. In terms of what Bill was just talking about, we've been back and forth with some people who are with Poison Free Malibu.
And they have responded to Bill's information And they said it gets really dicey and iffy if you start trying to mess with people's hormones and managing hormone, and populations and reproduction. It gets really dicey and that's not something we really want to be doing so I would really disagree with that. And then I did look up, it does say that if you are going to trap and release you have to get a permit from California Fish and Wildlife.
And if we look at the language that was in here, it does say that you're gonna do your trapping and releasing according to law. So I feel like you're covered in that area. It says you're going to do it according to what the law requires, so I don't see any problem with it. So I'm really happy to see this before the City Council. I've been wanting this for over 12 years.
I and many people have come up and said can we please do something? Can we please try? Can we do something? And we're here, so
2:35 – 2:428 turns
Thank you, Miss Roth. Casey Abbott then Sousa Francina.
Good evening Casey Abbott and make three points one is as a member of guest of Tent Town we have already been all over the issues of trapping non-poisoning leased Least invasive practices, we've had difficulties with rodents. Other things too, there are five dogs and I have suggested to many of them that we use the little cones that come off some of the eucalyptus trees which are of course invasive but they make fantastic flea repellent and they have very little effect on the dogs I'm also a beekeeper. I use integrated pest management in keeping bees. There's a great vociferous, a bunch of not very experienced beekeepers who are advocating treatment-free beekeeping. They find that they have no bees very soon after that.
It takes a few years. There's mites that are their main enemy, and we do have to reserve them. We carry full-blown poisons to bomb them. There's one particular day of the year—it's about August 15th—we like to use that so they can come into the winter with no mites when they're not expanding their population. And they tend to survive the winter that way. So if you want to make a recommendation in your policy, I would include the word integrated pest management as the service.
It allows you to do what Andrew Whitman was asking as part of the policy so no, you go with at least invasive practice as far as possible but when you need it, you can bring out your weapons. Again, we go half and three-quarter and everything we can before we get to full on doing so. One other point, there's a fantastic resource of information on pests and pest control which is the bug farm down in Ventura.
Name of it escapes me at the moment. Rincon Bytoba, thank you. They have an entire Connex box as their library books on natural pest control and they produce a number of insects that are fantastic predators for pest insects and there's same kinds of Many, many books on the same kind of things where other types of animals. So just hope that helps. Thank you. Have a good evening.
Thank you, Mr. Abbott. Susan Francina.
Good evening. It's absolutely delightful to see the two members. Kim, you look great up there. I really do. Both of you look great. Yeah, happy that you're there. So I want to start by acknowledging probably one of the key people that helped us, what we, I guess we call this the Ojai Earth Friendly Management Team. And that would be, I wanted to acknowledge Kian Shulman and she is the director of Poison Free Malibu. She has a great website called poisonfreemalibu dot org and she works locally and at the state level she's also working And if there's any problems, she's very responsive.
And I also want to mention the team that has worked on this probably at least 10 years have got like so many files and we had early attempts Betsy and I to bring this forward but Lindy you've done a great job it's a lot it's a model for other cities You know, I'm going to see if what Ventura is doing, you know, start there. And I think it's really necessary. We know the worst example is what happened to the trees at Soule Park. We don't ever want to have that back in.
But so I want to mention Mayor former mayor Betsy Sticks efforts and Renee Roth spoke Stacey Ruppel and Rebecca Harrell-Tickell, and Josh Tickell. You know them from the Kiss the Ground documentary and all their movies. They worked on this. Kathy Nolan who's a landscape architect and a woman named Sylvie Lee, Sue Williamson. And Patty Pagelin was probably the first to really sound the alarm at least 20 years ago We found a transition to organics and it went through some other phase, pesticide-free Ojai. But we kept moving it forward until we have this excellent document.
And I was also remembering when Mayor's former, did I just say former? You're always a mayor once you're president. When she brought forth about the glue traps There was a man who spoke and he, if you listen to the tape there are deterrents for rats and mice. Of course the main deterrent is to put your food and anything that's edible even flour I found out the hard way. You know everything has to be in a Well, give us your final thought. Okay my final thought is Cats, cats. So you know you could have a city hall cat. Libraries have cats offices have cats if all else fails you could have even one cat is a deterrent I have a question about the Havahart traps because I've used them. My understanding was that you're not supposed to trap bigger animals and try to relocate them like raccoons, you know, you can't dump them at Lake Isidas.
They'll try to come back if they have a family but I don't think there's I'm going to look into this, but I don't think there's a problem with mice. I mean, please don't report me, but I leave them in the field somewhere.
Thank
you.
All right. Thank you. Appreciate it. So is there anything online? Yes, we have
one raised hand. Keon Schulman. Can. Can can you unmute Keon Schulman?
2:43 – 2:5117 turns
We're in a hotel room now.
Malibu
is burning up terribly and we've been relocated now. However, Keon Schulman is Director of Poison Free Malibu. And I urge Mayor and your City Council members to pass the Earth Friendly Management Policy that is before you. This makes a statement that is reflective of sustainable communities across the nation dedicated to eliminating the use of hazardous pesticides and shifting to environmentally compatible practices.
Ojai's local environmental activists have been working hard for years to educate the Ojai public about the harms of pesticides and to encourage an organic approach. Earth Friendly means the protection of citizens and the environment, addressing issues critical to sustainability clean air water regenerative soil management, eliminating fossil fuel dependent fertilizers and pesticides. The policy guarantees the right of citizens children and pets to the safe use of city structures and recreational areas.
Malibu stopped using all pesticides on city property in 2016 and instead utilizes enrichment strategies repel exclude exclude and deter strategies Malibu and others are examples of how issues can be resolved without using harmful chemicals. I implore you to embrace the policy before you and join the green community. Thank you very much.
Thank you so much. Anything else?
Yes, we have one more hand raised. Sue Williamson.
Thanks.
I'd
like to support this program. I just wanted to comment about the rats. I had a rat infestation in my house and they were in the walls Eating away and making me crazy. And I used a rodent repellant, which I put through my air conditioning thing, which forced the rats to come up into the kitchen where I could then trap them in a have-a-heart trap. And then I took them out to – you have to take them at least two miles away and I'd release them. There's plenty of open space around here to release them. There's no reason to kill them. And I, you know if I get turned in well too bad. I mean that's just inhumane I think to be killing these critters and to resort to anything besides these very available rodent repellents that work wonders. I'm really glad to hear you haven't had to use any pesticides I just, uh, I don't know if you're familiar with it yet.
I don't know that the results have been released yet but we did do some testing and I had my hair tested for pesticides and poise toxins and I did test positive for several pesticides and I live in Taormina. Um, I don't use pesticides and I don t think many people or any people in Taormina do so this is clearly the result of Spraying that's going on in the valley and I realized that the city doesn't have any kind of.
Formal or authority to do much about that, but I would like to see the city try to put some pressure on Ventura. On the county to take some positive actions about this. Maybe write a letter as the city council or something. This is just the first start to begin to deal with it right here in this small little area of Ojai City limits, but the problem is much bigger than that and You know, quite a few people have tested positive from our tests from pesticide exposure. And this is very concerning so I hope that this will just be a first step for the City Council and I hope you'll continue to work on it.
Thank you, Ms. Williamson. Anything else?
That is it and there's no more right
now. Okay so the public comment is closed. We already had a lot of discussion does anybody have other questions or like to entertain a motion?
I'll entertain a motion. Please. Yeah so I would like make a motion that we approve the city's earth-friendly management policy And yeah, I just wanted, I guess we'll get a second but I did want to thank Lindy and certainly Patty, Kathy and Renee who when they saw the original that came in front of this council were mortified. because it didn't actually integrate anything that had been in the works for many, many, many years. And Lindy was all over it and welcomed all of the input and the interaction. I also want to thank Renee Roth who worked very hard many years ago to get Nordoff to go pesticide free when her daughter came back sick from the pesticides. So she's been a long time Proponent of this yeah, you know go cats and Deterrence and you know repellents and also to the point that we might indeed have to start learning to live with some creatures that hitherto for have been frightening and unwelcome in our inner Existence and I guess finally, um.
I know that Sousa and Betsy brought this forward about two years ago But I was contacted by a couple of constituents Lori Bodine and April Palmer to bring something forward and Unbeknownst to me it was already wet you know It had been years in the making so I did bring it forward And I just want to thank them for, you know, actually contacting me and we came and we found out that actually, you know, we're way behind the curve here. So anyway, that's my motion.
I think that this is a great resolution and I support it 100% and I'm hoping that the council likewise finds it that way. Second?
I'll second it.
Thank you. Any more discussion? Yeah,
I got just a couple of quick comments. OK. My wife's a biologist and usually when I'm making good decisions, I'm referring to my wife, but she has not allowed us to use any type of pesticides at our home. And one of the things she talks about all the time is that we're losing our bee population And pesticides are really destructive of our bee population. And, you know, we really need that to sustain diversity of our plants in our community. So I'm happy that we're doing this. I'm happy that we're reducing our poisons and pesticides.
I am not a fan of the idea that we would learn to live with rats because they are a disease carrier So, but I agree with everything else. Thank you. Anything else?
Yes I just wanted a second what councilmember rule said about offering gratitude and And thank especially to Sousa and Betsy You know I had the opportunity to work on this and I also have to say that I am someone who has a major phobia of roaches like terrible phobia and and And just doing the research for this policy, I have really my eyes have been opened to all of the ways that we could prevent that issue from happening without using chemicals. And so I'm hoping that other people watching this or listening to this might follow in my example and that that the policy that we pass if it passes tonight That it just has a ripple effect to ending pesticide use in our community.
Thank you.
Anything else? All right, roll call.
Roll-call vote Passed 5–0
Show transcript
2:52 – 3:079 turns
Motion passes.
How are we doing? Two in a row. Yeah, okay let's keep going. Number four concept review proposed energy efficiency ordinance Mr. Harvey
Yes, thank you Mayor. Before we get started I'd like to just transition out Ms. Palmer and transition in Mr. Seibert so I can allow for that to happen. And then I'm also, thank you there, Mr. Walker-Wells is up here at the podium he's going to be giving a presentation. We're before you tonight with a concept review item for a proposed energy efficiency ordinance. Point out the very obvious fact that there is no ordinance with this. This is the very preliminary concept review step discussion we do have some decision points that you know if the council decides they want to proceed that were going to need some input on But I don't want to get ahead of myself. I'd like for Mr. Walker-Wells to first give a presentation. Mr. Seibert is up here also, he can be available for questions.
You may know Mr. Wells, he wears a number of hats. He is involved in our general plan update effort. He's the principal with Rami and Associates. But he's also part of the CPA and TRC team that was working on this. So with that, if we could queue up Mr. Wells' presentation please? There we go and take it away Mr. Wells.
Okay thank you and good evening council members mayor staff thanks for this opportunity to sort of do a status update on this program as was mentioned this is a program that's funded by Clean Power Alliance your electricity provider One of the things that they do to give back to their members, and the whole intent here is to give cities technical assistance on developing and if they want to establishing ordinances that would save energy. And in many cases encourage electrification.
So here we go. I was gonna have a clicker.
We do have one yes.
There we are.
And if it fails just please say next slide. That's
right. So this this effort that you see on the on the right that we're talking about can be seen as a continuation of leadership by the city of Ojai for quite a while around issues of the environment like we just discussed the previous item and then particularly around energy and climate so there's a number of dots The timeline there, Climate Emergency Mobilization Committee has put together and reviewed a number of strategies that they could pursue in the city. One of which is to use the building permit process and building code process as a tool, a method to promote energy efficiency and greenhouse gas reductions.
And so you can kind of see how these things move forward. So just wanted to put this in a little bit of context for all of you. When we looked at the building stock of the city of Ojai to say, well where would one focus on? Put your focus in the context of the built environment. Not surprisingly, the majority of the building stock is residential and then the majority of the housing is single family. So he said if you wanna have an impact, we should look at single-family homes The thing in the middle just shows you that it's about a 50-50 split between renters and owners, which I was frankly surprised with. But it does mean that one has to keep in mind issues of equity and displacement so that there isn't an imposition of efficiency requirements that leads to somebody's rent going up, so then they lose their housing.
We know that housing is in tight supply. And then furthest to the right, just a good number of buildings that were built before 1990. So, you know, what is that 30 years ago so things are probably ready to be changed. There's also a good number that were built before 1978 which is when the state established the energy code. There's a building stock that could warrant some upgrades and then we want to sort of motivate them to make upgrades that would have a beneficial impact on the climate, not just to replace like with like but to improve efficiency and potentially move from gas to electric.
The reason that moving to electric keeps being emphasized is because you have access to 100% renewable energy through clean power lines. Not every city has that, but because you do, moving to electric equipment and appliances makes a lot of sense from a climate standpoint. So what are these local energy codes and why do people, why are people interested in them? And I think I have eight slides just so you know. This isn't a 40-minute lecture on energy efficiency codes.
So these are ordinances that are adopted by local governments and you have the authority to make amendments to the state building code as long as it establishes More stringent standards in the state, you can't adopt a less stringent standard. So it has to be more stringent than the state and then address specific conditions there's climate and topography and geology but there's also an environmental provision that gives you the ability to adopt local codes.
And often these are amendments to the state's green building standards, which is called CalGreen or chapter 11 of the building code. And so you can see these bullets here. It's a way for local agencies to demonstrate leadership or to pursue their climate goals. A lot of cities have climate action plans and then retrofitting the existing building stock as one of the actions in those climate action plans.
Done correctly, they'll reduce greenhouse gas emissions and you also improve air quality because you're not doing combustion in your living environment with either your water heater or your furnace or your stove. Lots of things come off of cooking with gas and we've seen a lot of those studies I'm sure. And you can save energy and often that means saving money. And then at the sort of the bigger context, if you're using less energy in your building it means there's more energy to go around for everyone else. So part of this larger grid or network of people using power.
Why a FlexPath approach? So you're thinking, what's FlexPath. So it's really just a flexible pathway to get towards these energy efficiency and greenhouse gas reduction goals. The reason that this has been developed in this approach is emerged over the last I'd say 18 months been adopted in a number of cities. You can see them at the last bullet there, San Luis Obispo and Santa Cruz, Santa Monica is looking at a similar approach So is West Hollywood. It is in response to this Ninth Circuit ruling on the Berkeley gas ban, and so Berkeley just banned gas and then the California Restaurant Association said you know hey that's not okay we think you're overreaching as a local government and then the decision by the Ninth Circuit was yes the federal government gets to regulate appliances based on this thing called the Energy Policy and Conservation Act, EPCA So you're not able to just say no gas appliances or to create an efficiency standard that would completely preclude people from using gas appliances.
So we have to give them a pathway that's flexible, provides options to meet the federal requirements on EPCA. The state also requires that there is at least one pathway that is considered cost-effective. So you can choose to do things in cost effective by the state additional, the incremental cost gets paid back during the life of the piece of equipment. It's a little more technical than that but basically can't sort of infringe on federal regulatory authority and must be cost effective and so we'll see in a couple slides what this can look like but a lot of the benefit is it gives people multiple compliance options So we're not prescribing what they need to do. We're saying, we want you to achieve a certain level of efficiency and then you can figure out how you wanna do it.
This approach is sort of efficient because basically you end up with a checklist of items that people would tick off and they'd include it in their building permit application so doesn't require a lot of new infrastructure in terms of city staff or procedures. And I mentioned that some of these other cities have looked at it. So here's how this can present itself in the ultimate ordinance. This is from San Luis Obispo.
Their ordinance covers existing single family homes and renovations to those homes, you know for once a permit is being applied for. The trigger is something that's 500 square feet or larger So this is something that would need to be talked about. And they've set this target score of eight, which is unique to their climate zone. So they're in a similar climate zone to yours but not exactly the same climate zone. We're mostly in nine here.
And so it would need to be adjusted accordingly. And then each of these measures that you see up there, the points are based on how much energy they save. So apparently one point is worth like 1 million British thermal units. So they're not just willy-nilly awarded points. And so then basically you need eight points and you can pick from that list So either you could assemble a number of ones and twos and threes to get to eight, or you could just go straight to a heat pump hot water heater.
And then within this list it's also developed so that you can get to eight points without violating APCA on the federal level, and you can get to eight points with cost-effective strategies. And so there has to be at least one pathway that aligns with all of those things. And then you can add other things that you think are good ideas that people could choose, on their own volition.
And so the only other kind of piece to this is there's typically a requirement to pre-wire for future electric equipment or appliances. So if you're redoing your kitchen, maybe you want to keep your gas stove for now but you would need to put the 220 outlet in behind the stove. Or if you're redoing the laundry room, maybe you want to keep your gas water heater because it's three years old but you would need to put in that outlet for the future electrical water heater if that was what you chose to do.
Oops, this way. Two more slides. Piedmont, which is this little city kind of nested in the City of Oakland also covers existing single family homes. Their triggers are based on the valuation of the project Which, from my perspective can be a little tricky because if you put in evaluation it can get dated or you have to have a mechanism to update it. If you just use a physical size like 300 or 500 square feet that stays evergreen in your ordinance but they chose to use permit valuation and then they'd have a list and they basically have set up their list to say pick one if it's a small project pick two if it is a larger project If you're doing roofing, they ask you to do solar photovoltaic. They also asked for the pre-wiring and so that's how they've set those up.
Then lastly just to get ahead of this question is typically there are exemptions in these ordinances understanding that you don't want somebody to go broke because of your ordinance. So if you know the cost is going to be prohibitively high sometimes that'll be say around You know, if the efficiency measures are more than 20% of the total cost of the project that can start to feel onerous. So that could be financial infeasibility.
Maybe there's just no place to put the condensing unit for your heat pump without violating side yard setbacks so that could be a technical infeasibility. Seismic safety upgrades are often exempted because we don't want to create a barrier for people to do seismic upgrades. We want them to do the seismic upgrades and then you can see, there's some projects that are just solely roof or solely windows or just cosmetic than often affordable housing is exempted. I think this is San Luis Obispo they exempted mobile homes or manufactured homes You have a quirky situation where a little piece of Ojai is in another climate zone, and I think there's like one building that's adjacent to the National Forest. So we basically said if you're in the city of Ojai but outside of Climate Zone 9, you're exempt which I think is literally one building just to clarify.
Okay that's what I wanted to share with you all and then happy to take any questions
Yeah and if I could just jump in from there. So, I know that you've obviously read your staff report council but if you turn to page three of the staff report and this is kind of building upon what Mr. Wells was speaking to first of all we need to know obviously if you want to proceed or not that's the main thing we need to get from you this evening. If you do want to proceed we understand it's inherent with something like this there will need to be a significant amount about which we understand that too Really what we want you to focus on are kind of what Mr. Wells alluded to, it's the triggers or the applicability and that's on page three and it's the exemptions for the carve outs that's where we need your help so we've listed some suggestions this does not have to be the way it is by any stretch but Major addition, major alteration or a major addition and an alteration.
We're using 300 or more square feet in this example doesn't have to be that okay? You also saw an example that uses a project valuation although I think I would agree with the sentiment that can be problematic and this would probably be a little more clean cut. The other thing where we really need your help, and we've listed a bunch of them. And I know you've read it so I'm not going to go through all of them but all the exemptions, the carve-outs, you know, the historic properties those were there's a hardship imposed Those were you know they're doing an upgrade solely for seismic purposes etc etc So that's you know in your discussion tonight if you decide to go forward That's really where we'd like to have some guidance from you how to if you want to Have us bring this back to you.
Mr. Seibert is here because he's going to be really able to provide you with some. Responses to questions you may have in this area in particular. This is his department community development that would be very involved in this if it became an ordinance. Mr Wells or anything that we forgot to address?
3:07 – 3:2152 turns
I forgot to mention one thing. We've done some analysis of your building permit history and it looks like this ordinance would touch roughly 40 buildings, 40 projects a year. It gives you the sense of the magnitude.
Forty projects in what time frame?
Annually, okay. You know would be over well three 300 square feet and Be extensive enough so that it would warrant this ordinance applying like it wouldn't just be a roofing a re-roofing permit or a window replacement permit or Well, you can do aesthetic things to your property without a building permit So those are exempt
Do you happen to know off top of your head how many if we did go with 500 square feet? How many projects that would be
I do not know Myra is here. Sorry, yes. Myra's here. Hi Council. Hi TRC.
Yeah I can help answer that question so that 40 figure is really a rough estimate based on permit rates we've seen in the other cities we've supported with this type of approach We expect to see no more than 40 projects per year. We're trying to do a deeper dive into the permits, really get that number nailed down and as part of that process we can also look at how many projects we could expect for a threshold or sorry, a trigger of 500 square feet as well.
Thank you.
And obviously, you don't want to go through all this effort to make an ordinance and have it apply to a very small number of buildings because we're trying to have an impact on greenhouse gas.
And maybe this is a question for Mr. Harvey. Were you a part of the outreach that happened in the fall? I
was minimally part of that. We did bring this up to TRC, CPA that you know if council decided to go forward we would definitely want to do a significant amount of outreach and that just comes with the territory and those cities that you've seen that have rolled this out have done that and we would want to study carefully what they did and mimic and probably even expand upon what they did if you want to go forward.
Yeah, I'm simply asking the question in the report when it says that community was reached out to we want to say that was maybe very minimal at this point.
I would say the business community was reached out to. There were some property owners, but you know, was there a mass mailing in a huge community forum? No, there was not.
Okay, thank
you. Yeah, I could say we did some, I mean, we did brown tables. I think the business committee had maybe 15 people representing real estate and Wai Valley Inn. And then earlier in the day, we did a virtual meeting with six or seven environmental advocates
I have a quick question. Was this before or after? In other words, were you putting it out to the community to get ideas or did you already have a plan and you're putting it out to the community to get feedback on the plan itself? So do you understand the question was it pre or post?
It was pre.
It was pre okay thank you.
Thanks
Thank you. I've got a few questions. Yes, please just about going at the exemptions exemption number two that's being proposed for discussion And when the compliance costs are more than 20%, does that mean they're exempted completely or does that mean that once you've spent 20% on energy efficient measures, then you don't have to keep adding?
It would be the latter. That's the way that it's thought about. Yeah, you wouldn't be asked to spend more than 20 percent additional to comply.
And then on number four historic buildings is that limited to buildings that have been Mills Act or some formal designation as opposed to just generically historic?
I think this is something we need to follow up on because you may have a local designation and you could say that counts. Wouldn't it just have to be on the state or the national registry? Yeah, I'd want it
to be on whatever our formal... Mr. Seibert might be the
best
answer for that
one. If you're landmarking typically the Mills Act follows suit with that not the Mills Acts and then landmarks. You've got to have the landmark in order for the Mills Act but yes It would be from a local designation, yes. There's also the state and federal but we only have maybe two properties there.
And if I remember right although we'll confirm every state or federally designated property in the city is also locally designated so staff if the council moves forward the recommendation would be tie that exemption to Mills Act properties and land local landmark status make those match.
So they have to be a formally designated historic in order to have that exemption?
If this would move forward, that'd be staff's recommendation. Subject to public
outreach. To add on to that there is a downtown district that is state designated but not locally designated.
Not locally designated and not yet a local landmark. Correct. Understood.
So if any of those in that zone buildings were looking to do 3,300 square foot addition or more. They would be able to exempt something they were they would be able to exempt from the program if the efficiency measures would take them out of the historic designation
There's potential for exemptions, yes. I think the important thing is this is kind of my menu of options that we're looking at right now. Curtailing that is really what we're talking about right now so yes and no.
In other words it'd be a policy choice for the council to consider? Correct. We can narrow the exemption, we could tie it only to local landmarks or allow contributing structures to the state or if ever adopted a local district also be eligible. It'd be how the council chooses to write it
So any questions? Yeah, I have one other question and I'm sorry if I'm hogging all the questions but This is not on the exemptions. But that you know we have this premise statement at the beginning of our discussion in our report and That says under the California Energy Commission rules We need to vote our ordinance needs to be both cost-effective and use less energy.
And I you know, the useless energy part is like The core of what we're doing here so yeah, and I think you You explain this but I want to make sure I understand what you said as far as cost effectiveness goes That's baked in also and I think you mentioned that if you apply the measures that we're talking about It's going to be inherent or follow That the project is going to be more cost-effective over time Is that?
Almost. Okay, yeah get it to be right. Yes
so I think in that list of measures that we saw say for San Luis Obispo like pretend that's your list you have to get to eight there has to be a way to get eight points by selecting items that have been determined to be cost-effective by the Energy Commission which does mean that their incremental cost pays over the life of the piece of equipment Now, it might be insulating your attic that has a 40-year lifespan and it takes 40 years to get your money back. But you do get your money back. That said, you can have other things on that list that are good ideas and energy efficient but are not cost effective.
But people could choose them because they'd say it's expedient, like the heat pump hot water heater is apparently not cost effective. But it's worth 11 points so someone might just say I'll just do that because I don't want to do windows and roof and insulation and duct sealant. And it just makes sense my water heater is already 10 years old I wanna replace
it in the first place. Satisfy this ordinance would inherently satisfy the cost-effectiveness requirement Because we're taking from the state's list of what our cost effective measures. Yes So we don't even have to have like independent assessment states already done it for us,
correct?
Okay Yeah,
I
could
chime in here as well councilmember women so by design when we set the target score and There has to at least be one cost effective pathway to achieve that target score. And not only has to be cost effective, but we also have to give applicants a choice between fuel types so we can't restrict that compliance pathway also can't be an electrification pathway for example. So by design this ordinance will be cost effective.
Understood. Ms. Lang?
Thank you. I just had a follow-up question to that and that is in looking at on page 4 of the staff report, the available resources for lower cost renovations and in this it mentions the rebates incentives tax credits etc I would, as a part of this policy we would have access to literature about those rebates or we would have the ability to refer anyone who's applying for a permit to those incentives.
Yes, I mean that could or probably should be part of this you know rollout implementation of the ordinance is to have those things in place. So I think some of that can be provided by Clean Power Alliance and then I'm not gonna remember the name but there is like a Ventura County Energy something office
And Electrify Ojai too is a great resource as well.
Mr. Wells, I had a question. You had said that or I want to ask a clarifying question. As far as the cities that have adopted this, the city staff time in managing these permits, I thought I heard you say something to the effect of it's kind of not seamless but simple or clear It seems maybe slightly cumbersome to me, but I'm checking your understanding. Did the city self-report that? That it's working well and no problem or how is that reporting coming to you?
Well, I think these ordinances are new. This is my perspective as a former city employee who stood at the counter for several years at the City of Santa Monica and you know I can just imagine that in the plans there's there's a sheet with that checklist and it's you know they've highlighted the things that they're gonna do that add up to eight points or nine points or whatever your point threshold ends up being.
You know, maybe it says I did this thing. It gives me one point and you can see it on sheet Okay number 12, but it it's not gonna Need a whole lot of additional expertise Consultant time at least in that Mr.
Seabright would you concur with that? I mean again just I'm asking I'm putting you on the spot a little bit want to make sure we're acting correctly
so I think there's a path for this, but I will have to admit the first time that I was looking at this it was a little overwhelming and I'm a professional right from that standpoint. So if we're passing this off to consult to well not necessarily engineers but electricians of the sort anybody that's coming in to pull a permit There's an educational piece, and I think also to Mr. Wells' point the educational piece is what some of these other communities have already figured out so if we piggyback onto that and potentially have some sort of a town hall to educate those individuals and the community in terms of rolling it out there's potentially a path there. I'll just admit it's a little overwhelming when you first look at the points system It's a little confusing how you get to a point system and why that point system is within that threshold.
I think those are the questions that we're likely to get from the community initially, right?
And I'll also add that we found contact with the County of Monterey. I'm sorry, County of Marin who has probably had the most time implementing this sort of ordinance So we're working on connecting City of Ojai staff with the County of Marin to ask those questions about how their implementation is going and understand lessons learned and best practices for the implementation.
Yes, I was just curious. So if we decided this is something we wanted to do the next step would be to have like a community forum or something to get the community on board and then if the feedback from them was no this is something we don't want it are we under any obligation or any financial thing too? To say no thanks you know thank you but no thank you
3:21 – 3:2822 turns
Thank you. It's entirely up to you. We can come back however you want us to. If you want us to come back with a follow-up discussion, I would probably think that your next step would be a part two of the concept review before you jump to community outreach because we would need to get your input on these triggers and these carve outs And also that would be great too because the community could see that there's another meeting on this topic before you move into a full-blown Town Hall, because we'd also want your input on what the town hall would look like. What type of outreach would you like us to do? Thank you
any other questions before I move to public comments yes
Yeah. So when I look at this, I feel unprepared and to make decisions. So when I see proposed exemptions and I see this list, it's difficult for me to figure out is anything missing here? You know what I mean? My question too is I'm assuming that you guys have done the background on this, that you've looked at other towns, they've gone through it Um, you know just because it doesn't occur to me my expertise doesn't allow me to say geez what exemptions might we be missing. So I'm looking for some sort of Confidence that you guys have actually pulled this up for us and we're not missing anything huge here. Not that we don't have members of our community that could certainly add to this, which would be a really good reason to have a community forum.
So I just wanted to throw that out that I'm not an expert in this. And when I read this You know I don't see any red flags just because I don't know it.
Yeah no I understand. I mean I think maybe that subheading could have said examples of possible exemptions. So that's not the that's not the list that's proposed it's a list of things that we've collected that have come up from other other places
right. And so we're not you're not. No I'm sorry I didn't mean to interrupt but I guess my question is do you feel that this is a complete list or a fairly thorough list?
I think it's a fairly thorough list and I only feel like it was complete after we did the community outreach and presented.
Yeah, completely. And they said this looks like a good. Yeah complete was the wrong word for sure.
It seems to me what one point is affordable housing was on one of the other cities listed not on this one has just one case so what I'm hearing Mr. Wells say correct me if I'm wrong is this is a sample list and the staff is looking to us to figure out the list. So I don't think it's meant to be accepted
Right, and my point is that I don't know how to think about it. I don't know what I'm missing because I don't have any expertise in this area at all. That was my point.
Yeah, sorry just to flog this to absolute death. I mean one of the if you if you wanted to move forward one of the directions You could give to us was hey talk to these communities that put this in place really drilled down on their triggers and their carve-outs and why they picked those and And what are they seeing so far? And then you know as as Vega indicated, you know Marin County's gonna be helpful to us But there San Luis Obispo would be another probably good one for us to talk to Mr. Seibert I don't have any ideas
I mean, yeah. It's the cities that have successfully implemented and not only that but how do they do the rollout? SLO would be a great example to kind of hear the lessons learned that they had through this process. Thank you.
Mr. Whitman and then Ms. Lane.
Yeah so just conceptually for me this may be more discussion but I think we have to get something on the table So that everybody can see what we're trying to do so that they can see, okay here's the point system. Here's all the different pathways you could have. Achieve your points and and then have a long period of discussion about oh We don't like that part of this, you know what? You've got in your first draft. Mm-hmm And I'm you know my preference would be That we that we get something out in front of the public and then we take as long as it takes and the public wants to have Deep discussion and that includes you Lucas in terms of telling us what you know, you need to be able to implement it Thank you. That's
useful. Yeah, I just say I agree I feel like we've We got the sort of broad input You know back in August of concerns about cost and how would it work? And who would it apply to and when would it start then? You know is it only Currently, it's only set up to look again at residential and single-family which I think there was a sigh of relief from the commercial property owners part of things. But so, we have that level of input sort of high-level concerns but then I would agree with Council Member Whitman that you know, I think it would be helpful to say what if it looked like this? You know and walk people through it and then get that kind of more specific input. And even as we were hearing about the exemptions, let's kind of deliberately go through them.
Thank you for that.
Thank you. On that note, City Manager, it was my understanding that we had a proposed ordinance in that was being drafted by one that was by the Clean Power Alliance and also by our liaisons to the Clean Power Alliance?
We did, but we really didn't think that was the right thing to do. We felt that you know it was something brand new we like to start with just concept review. We didn't know if this council was interested in moving forward so we always prefer to start with just a general concept review yeah then we can come back with okay here's oh you're interested great and then here's what we can talk about but we also felt beyond That it was probably premature to bring the ordinance back, that there were many things in the ordinance that needed to be fleshed out if we were gonna bring it forward. Wasn't ready to go yet,
in our view. Can I refine the question slightly? I was aware that there was some drafting, I guess, that had happened on an ordinance so my question is something like... It's sort of a two-parter. What's the gap between what has been proposed and what we think is ready for prime time? Question one. Second, how much time literally do you guys think this is gonna take?
So the answer is going to be it depends, right? Yeah. It depends on what you want to do and how you want to go about doing it so that you're illustrating exactly why we don't like to just out of nowhere come in slap an ordinance down on your on the dais because unless you've directed us specifically bring back an ordinance for the following if it's a topic that we're just trying to first of all see if there's an interest in moving forward we absolutely like to start with concept review
yeah
On the timing though, there is some time just with the contract with Clean Power Alliance. Myra may know I don't.
Yeah thanks for bringing that up Walker and we have until the end of next year, summer 2025.
Okay can we move to public comments? Okay Rene Roth then Bill Miley and then Jeffrey Starkwither
3:29 – 3:387 turns
Good evening, Council. I hope you take this concept review and put it on the back shelf because I honestly and sincerely believe that the climate emergency planning process needs to unfold with many different elements that need to be included. And marching ahead, because Clean Power Alliance says we have a plan and we can do this for you is not engaging the community in the realities of climate adaptation.
That is going to be demanded of us one of the things I think would be A big helpful use of your time and energy is working on climate mitigation efforts that can be done for hardening our homes right away. We need to be doing something to become a more fire resilient community Our homeowners need to know and be handed a list right away of what plants that are high fire hazard plants, and what steps they can take to add vents to their homes, get fences that are wooden fences removed. We're at high risk. We're a very high-risk community. I think this is something that is urgent And I think you would be much better serving our community to take on the fire retrofitting efforts that are needed in our community, instead of the electrify for a few people who really are.
If they want to do it, you know what? The information is really out there for the people who have the money and have the resources and are going to be doing improvements to their homes. The information is out there. Maybe you could publish a pamphlet that says these are good ideas but not trigger a major expense in housing Costs that are going to make homeowners not necessarily feel good about what they're doing. The last thing I want to say is the Ojai Valley Inn is in the middle of proposing a major project. I hope this isn't going to stop them from being able to get gas in their new kitchen that is probably gonna be state-of-the-art kitchen. Why don't we put incentives out there that say, Ojai Valley Inn, we would like you to be A lead in a green, sustainable energy efficient design.
Why don't you take the lead and encourage that instead of putting in triggers that punish people and make things more expensive?
Could I just ask Ms. Roth a clarifying question? So essentially what you're saying is, what I hear is that there are other things that we should be prioritizing and if we're living in a zero-sum game world to the extent that we are because of resources this would not be your first choice on what we would do for climate mitigation. Is that...
Absolutely! Absolutely, you could put out a list of good ideas and then drop it.
Thank you Thank you. Let me go to Bill Miley and then Jeffrey Stark with her
Hello This proposed required increase in energy efficiency of residential and commercial in the city is a good idea. However, based on the number of people in the audience five I would suggest that there's not a lot of hot concern interest in this at the moment maybe it's because it's too late The question I believe is at issue is what are the elements in our buildings which need to be recognized for upgrading?
We need to develop a list. It seems to me that the economic aspects of improvements, we need to look at the numbers. We do need to look at the costs Knowing them clearly as to what it's going to cost people to upgrade their houses, their buildings is really important before we approve the ordinance. And this is part of the flex path I understand. An example Wall insulation was not a building-coded requirement in the early 1960s.
My house, the one I live in now, which was built around 1960 had no roof insulation. It was approved by the city and no wall insulation. After we bought it in 1978, we installed major roof insulation And we had holes drilled in all exterior walls where insulation was pumped in. I would suggest that a high percentage of Ojai residents do not have any insulation in their exterior walls, maybe 40%.
I think this is probably one of the highest areas of inefficiency that we have for energy So we better find out what it would cost to put insulation in people's houses. And the last thing I want to say is lots of folks who live here in Ojai will never come to the building department to get a permit, so they'll never be asked to increase their efficiency. We need to know, and I would suggest we have a program to help people identify the walls that are not insulated in some way get them so. Thanks.
Thank you Mr. Miley. Jeffrey Starkweather and then Casey Abbott.
Thank you. Excuse me. I think in principle this is a good idea however I kind of agree with Renee This is a, we should be looking at climate holistically. Not one-offs this and that which is what we've done. We spent I don't know five years on our reach code which turned out to be illegal and some of us told you that two years ago. Now we're going with this the biggest existential climate threat we face is what?
Malibu, a fire that would destroy the town. And we have done virtually nothing to protect residents and our town from the next fire or preventing the next fire. That to me, and if you look at air quality in California fires is the worst aspect of air quality we have So to me, I agree. It's a matter of looking at the trade-offs of what we have resources to do. So I think we need to be addressing climate change, climate mitigation but also adaptation not just mitigation. Think about it, we're a small place.
No matter what mitigation we do would it have any impact on the climate we experience? Zero. Because climate is worldwide, it's statewide. The other thing is that so far all we've addressed is demand for energy which is what electricity is. We haven't addressed supply at all. You know the amount of electricity that's being demanded in this country has been going up dramatically? Guess what's fueling it?
Natural gas, it's not being done by non-fossil fuels. So I think that if we're gonna address this, I think we do need to start with a public... We have enough of an outline here to show people, give them an eye and get input. The idea that you had a selective group of people that met in private, they gave input? That's not public input! That's an elitist way of doing business. It's top down, it's not bottom up.
We have plenty of contractors, plenty of homeowners, plenty of builders who could give us really good insight. None of you are builders and none of your contractors and none of you know anything about this just like me I'm completely ignorant I will admit that And I would rely on more specialized people. So if we're gonna do this, I think we need the public. The other thing that I've been advocating for for some time is we need a climate mitigation and adaptation task force that is abroad.
3:38 – 3:499 turns
Thank you Mr. Starkweather. Casey Abbott.
Just imagine for a moment how many greenhouse gases we would reduce if we could stop smoking. My proposal to you then is why not give away Chantix to anybody who wants it? Because not only did you reduce the heat from the end of the cigarette, you've reduced the greenhouse gases that come off of it and they trap heat a whole lot more efficiently than air does as it already is.
And you'd stop forest fires when they throw the cigarette out the window of the car into Just an idea. Maybe there's a way to load some cigarettes with it and leave them out for people to find. Anyways, good luck. Thanks.
Thank you, sir. Ms. Mara, is anybody online?
No, Mayor, there is no raised hands. Oh, I'm sorry. There is. Yes. Michelle Ellison. Thank you. Go ahead, Michelle.
Good evening, Council. Thank you, Mayor Gailman and Councilwoman Mayer. I'm calling...I wasn't able to listen to the whole discussion pending with the kids at home but just tuned in to the last part of it. I am really just excited that we've come this far 8-9 months into looking into an energy efficiency code for existing buildings. Had the benefit of TRC, a national really well respected consulting engineering firm Really has expertise in this area and helping other municipalities across the state. So we're benefiting from their knowledge and help and support as we navigate our options here in Ojai, so really grateful to TRC and CTA for making that available to us and of this council and staff are providing direction earlier this year to look into this and I really am excited that we have options a flexible path where people who are making major Renovation to their homes and select from a variety of measures, from energy efficiency to electrification, solar plus battery et cetera.
So I'm really encouraging you to take the next step in developing an ordinance and looking more closely at those exemptions and the measures that would be included. And just kind of give it context on why this is important We have a greenhouse gas emissions inventory here in Ojai, and over half of the emissions are from energy in our buildings. And so it is really important that we begin chipping away at Our emissions in our buildings. The second largest is transportation, so we need to be doing transportation but we also need to be building and so this is just a step in that direction you know these are natural triggers when something major is going on. We have this aging and building stock so this is where a majority of our emissions are coming from.
So if we're not going to do this what are we going to do to start working towards that? And I think it is kind of an all of the above strategy. We need to work on buildings, we need to work on transportation, we need to work on building materials. It requires everything and all of the above but where I'm coming from focusing really on reducing fossil fuel use and that really is right now with focus on energy efficiency saving energy and using cleaner sources of energy and we are benefiting from getting Clean energy sources from power lines that are coming from renewable sources like wind and solar.
The grid on our behalf as we're using the energy, and a lot of these new electric appliances that are heat pump technology are using way less energy than the gas counterpart. So really encouraging you to take the next step in bringing forth draft ordinance to respond to. Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Ellison. Anyone else?
There are no more
raised hands. Thank you. So let's move to discussion. And Ms. Mara, don't forget to give us our timer too of five minutes please. Thank you. Thoughts people?
Yes. I'll comment. Yeah. So first and foremost, I think it's really important for us to understand. There was a discussion about we don't have expertise This proposed ordinance is a little bit unique for us where we were approached about the opportunity for a grant of experts come in and look at what we're doing as a community and give us ideas about how we can address energy consumption, greenhouse gases in general.
And what I really like about what our... consultants have done is that they're not telling anybody you have to do this other than if you're going to invest a certain amount of money in your home to expand the square footage, you're going to have to achieve a certain amount of energy efficiency. I wish Sousa was still here Because I heard her say many, many times over the course of the last couple of years that while we can look at environmental measures.
The biggest threat to our environment is our excessive consumption of energy no matter what that source is and this ordinance is all about Getting us to live more efficiently and reducing our usage of energy, which really can only be good for the planet. We're not. Going to be impacting affordable housing because this is really targeted at single family homes and affordable housing owners are not going to be applying to us to build more than 300 square foot additions to their homes or they're maybe not affordable housing, or maybe not fit that category. So this is really kind of targeted a category of a person who's gonna... I'm gonna build and now let's have them do this building more efficiency.
You know my biggest concern and listening to our consultants you know my biggest concern is that our staff have a comfort level that they're going to be able to explain this to somebody at the application desk. And I think that that is not such a big risk that we can't move forward I really like the idea that we would roll the first reading of an ordinance out so that people can really see up and down the ordinance, what's gonna be possibly exempted.
What a homeowner who wants to build is beyond 300 square feet is gonna actually have to do And then for whatever the community's response is, we have the ability to adapt to that before a second reading. If we need a special meeting to address just this, I think we can assess that potentially at the next meeting whether the demands there I'd really like to see us move forward. I think this is a really innovative, positive thing and I also like the idea that we're building on what other cities who are ahead of us are doing.
And then finally, I would say that I like the way it's being proposed with a 300-foot threshold and then a larger threshold if you're gonna be building 1,000 square feet or more. And I like the idea that we would exempt expenses once they go beyond 20% of the project cost. No, we haven't done a first reading and that so my idea is you know Let's get it out on the table. Okay, and then thrash it out in You know I'm optimistic that we can you know come to some good from this but if the public comes back And I really like the idea that we're not telling anyone, you have to stop using gas.
They have a choice and if the public is still up and listening, you know the way you would basically Achieve your energy efficiency rating If you wanted to hang on to your gas appliances Is that you would do the type of thing that Bill Miley mentioned? You have to go in and insulate your walls insulate your ducts and other other measures that would allow you You know, achieve that energy efficiency factor. Thank you. Okay. Yes, Miss Lane.
3:49 – 3:558 turns
So, you know in theory I think this is great. I think it would work But I am also concerned about what are we going to focus on? We are a limited we have limited resources and if anything I would like The community to weigh in on whether or not they want to work on doing this sort of thing, or fire hardening. I think that is the first decision to make because I don't think we can do everything. We're just a small group We're a small city, we're a small group and I want to know where the public would like us to focus on. I think that's the most important thing. If you asked me, I would say fire hardening.
Not that I don't think this is great and not that I don't think that this could be implemented But I'm also cognizant that it's never as easy as we think it's going to be. As well, there is a lot of information we don't have. What are the costs? What are the number of people this would affect? Would it indeed raise the kinds of – would outcomes be the kind that we want to have And just as far as, I just have to weigh in on what Susa would say. Susa would say is we need to stop the consumption.
So she would not support new appliances. She would say don't build the 3,000 square foot addition, don't build. Don't build you need to stop. I mean, that's what she would say Just want to put that out in deference to her so for me I'm just I want to know what the community would like us to focus on I think we don't we can't do everything not that I don't think as I said that this is not a Is not, you know, a good thing to do. I certainly do think it but there's if we're going to put out community meeting after community meeting or writing an ordinance doing the first reading putting it back out there that is a heck of a lot of work for staff and for You know, the council and for our community to understand I'd rather do a broad strokes here are some of the climate mitigation things that we're talking about.
What would you like to see us do? We just had the fire in the fire. The fire safe council do the you know, at the Ojai retreat. You know, are you worried about your insurance? Are you worried about the trees you have to cut down? We also have a tree ordinance. So not that I wouldn't not that I wouldn't support this. I would support this. But I also feel there is a zero sum game in play here and we shouldn't if we're going to do this, we should actually engage the community before we move forward in any direct and real way
Okay, great thanks. So I agree that those things other climate mitigation efforts are extremely important and my understanding from talking with people and with this particular agenda item is that a lot of the work has already been done And really what we're doing, if we do decide to move it forward and I am in support of Council Member Whitman's proposal or suggestion that we have staff bring back an ordinance for us to present the community to get input.
If we do move forward with this, what we're doing is finishing a project that's been going on for a year Or longer. And we have a grant that's allowing us to have consultants to help us implement this and that is only, you know, we have that for the next year and so I think that if we are going to move forward with this, this could be a model for if we wanted to go further with an incentivization program or something like that You know, this just affects homeowners. It doesn't affect businesses I think that we've done a lot there's been a lot of groundwork done in preparation for bringing this to us For making this a policy that could be a win-win including offering more help with providing information and resources about rebates incentives and And and things that could be a financial help for anyone going through renovations so I am in support and I'm gonna actually put a motion on the table and we can keep discussing because I want to hear from my other colleagues But I'm gonna put a motion on the table to have staff Come back with a proposed ordinance That we could read in a public meeting and that would be a starting point for discussion.
I'll second that motion. Thank you. And can I check on one thing? And then I would love to hear from you when the statement is made, most of the work has already been done. I guess I would like to hear from staff how what's your take on it?
I feel we do have a draft ordinance that we could bring back. I feel good knowing that our next meeting is not till the end of January because I would like to spend some time, but in all seriousness it's close but there are some things we would want to flesh out based upon what we've heard tonight.
Thank you.
Can I ask a follow-up question? Who wrote the draft ordinance? Where
did this come from? CPA and TRC, as part of the grant they drafted up an ordinance for us to review.
Okay.
3:55 – 4:0738 turns
Well, I get this and yes it's very important. And I will say you know with what Leslie said like fire is huge you know look at Malibu's burning now the people in Camarillo we have friends that have lost homes and all of that stuff and it's like When you weigh it out, they're both extremely important. And I think to reach out to the community to say how many want the fire? How many want this? And then we can focus our efforts on what the community feels is the best way to go.
Thank you. I want to follow up on that if I could. I have noticed we do tend to sometimes say, we have a limited bandwidth which I completely understand and we can do this or this. And I guess I'd want to check that thinking a little bit because it seems to me, we actually can work things concurrently Personally, I would double the number of council meetings myself. I know I didn't ask anybody else that but I would do it in a second. But I guess what I would say is I agree fire is hugely important and I also agree with what Ms. Roth said which is the fire in my opinion would be first if it wasn't either or. But I'm not convinced that it is either or, but I would love to hear from Mr. Harvey or Mr. Summers, et cetera about bandwidth.
Well,
I'm
just going to jump in. Yeah, please. You have a goal setting session in February? Right. That's the time to do it. That's when you propose what you want the priorities to be. We come back and evaluate that and give you some strategies that go along with that, and they correspond to your budget and our staff. And we're not shy if We always recommend less than 10 goals somewhere between 5 and 10.
It's laughable when you see these cities that have 27 or 30, that's just not possible. Right so just something doable but we will tell you yes we could have this as a goal but we're only going to be able to get this far this fiscal year.
And the only other thing I'd add to that is in terms of the capacity for myself and my team and then for staff as well In the end, we work for the council. The council directs us to do something you want 10 ordinances written tomorrow? We will do it however there will be a fee. It's a resource allocation question and so if the council wants to assess whether those in my hypothetical here was pretty extreme 10 ordinances have support from a majority Then ask that question first before we take the time to write 10 ordinances. And I know 10 is an example and somewhat extreme, but that sort of makes a point right? We work for the council as the Council may direct.
Could I just add that you guys are freelancers, staff is not so it's apples and oranges You can pull in more and more and more attorneys the staff cannot do that. And, you know, so we have to really be realistic we have over the last two years promised many things one was mobility study for a And so, We, you know, you can't just kind of expand your knowledge. You can't expand your staff in the same way and so I think that's really important is that I think at some point it is a zero sum game or it is a priority where do we start?
And we have a climate action plan. Where is that? When do we see that? So there are many, many, many things that we don't even know what's being juggled and we're going to put another thing into the mix to juggle. And so I think that your suggestion of bringing it to a goal setting where we can actually see all the things that we're juggling and all the things that we could juggle, and put a certain time frame or cost resource allocation to that would be very, very helpful.
Right I could just jump in really quick. The other thing that we want to do you know this this year we're actually doing it in a proper cadence as you set the goals those form the basis for the budget but also we come back quarterly and we give you a scorecard as to how we're doing and we don't make it fluffy if we're not reaching something we tell you we're not reaching and why?
And so you get you and the community know where we sit.
When does that scorecard come out?
So what we would suggest is you hopefully adopt the goals and the strategies in the February-March time frame. So, the first scorecard will probably come out in the very next quarter after that. And then you get one each quarter. So
is there—what about this previous—this quarter that we're in?
We never finished the effort. I got here in January. We laid out goals but we never got back to identifying the strategies that roll up into them so we had the—we had goals for the basis of our budget. It was a starting point but we never really finished the effort.
I would go farther and add when we come up with those five or six big goals, I would personally love to see them on every single agenda so that we don't lose sight of it. When something comes up and we get excited about it, we say which one of these do we want to kick off? And the answer is hopefully none. Right? Yeah, so if
I don't do it just jump in again. The other thing we could do which have done elsewhere is you could have your agenda reports have a section of the report that's goal alignment and then it's clear as to whether it aligns with the goals or not and it's okay oftentimes reports Will not have a goal alignment because it's something operational. That's fine, but that's that's a good way just to know we We don't have the bandwidth really to come back to you every month and tell you how you're doing on your goals But I think quarterly is probably realistic. That's right.
So can I make the goal setting in February?
And actually, I'm probably gonna get scolded by the city attorney because we're having a whole full-blown goal setting discussion and we're not
even. This is leading into, I assume, we have a motion on the table or maybe another motion that might be slightly different. I'm comfortable with that from Brown Act perspective.
I'd like to make a substitute motion if I could. Sure. I would like to make emotion that we bring this back in February as part of our goal setting and we can instruct staff to flesh this out You know, as much as is reasonable and possible if we think that to be needed. I personally don't think that's to be needed but what I'm not suggesting is staff move forward with an ordinance That is a legal document, that is complex. This has not gone in front of any of the community and I think we need more information so my motion would be that we bring this back in February and make it part of a community outreach to see where the community's priorities lie as well.
So that's my motion.
Second on that? So that motion dies, what I would suggest. Let me ask you guys a question though we're back to the first motion. Can you can you spend a minimal amount of time coming up with a first draft that gives the community something to talk about in February?
Yes.
That seems like that accomplishes sort of what both people are
wanting. Or the last meeting in
January. But it would lean into the goal setting in February.
So I don't want to interrupt what you're doing, but I do want to respond to what I've heard since I spoke first. Councilman Whitten,
you're going to want to speak into the microphone.
Yeah, I'm sorry. So I agree with the concept. I think that Mayor Gilman stated, which is you know, I don't really see this as an either or situation. I mean it could be but I'm not seeing that right now. You know we've got fire hardening recommendations and I can tell you that I personally have done them And that everybody has the option of engaging in those fire hardening measures that have been proposed. And so, the next step would be does the city want to mandate Fire hardening.
And that's a whole nother, you know discussion that we have to agendize I'm totally in favor of doing that and if we don't mandate can we incentivized and I'll stop talking about fire hardening now because I know it's not on the agenda. You know, even as far as climate goes this is not like a binary choice. It's like this really attacks a specific issue which is energy efficiency it's its primary goal and it's a really solid goal for our community to have And so I'm really happy to look at other great things that we can do for our community.
And, you know, those have to come up and come forward.
Right.
Lay them out. But none of that should preclude us from taking a good solid look at this. And I'd like to see that happen sooner.
So we have emotion on the table. Ms. Mara, can you restate the motion just so we've got in our mind?
To direct staff to come back with the proposed ordinance that could be read and discussed with the community.
At the January meeting?
At the January meeting, yes. Sorry.
And we had a motion in a second any more discussion? Yeah,
I just I know how much work goes into an ordinance and I think that Just to reel it back just to reel it back a little bit to say you know broad strokes with the Goal being to give the community enough understanding of what we're asking for but not You know going into the weeds, the weeds, the weeds that are going to take a lot of time and in fact may distract from the question. So it's you know I know that that's a little bit tricky to tell a lawyer but enough of an ordinance that people get the gist without it being too much of an ordinance where it's too weedy, people don't understand it and it costs us a lot of money to do
I think you guys are getting that, right?
Yeah. I think we hear you on that one. The other key there is part of it will be how many rounds of review do we go through with the consultants versus staff? What I'm hearing in the council is take the draft from staff, do one or two edits. That's it. And then come back to council. We're not going to make, we're not gonna spend forever wordsmithing little tiny pieces with the consultant. We're coming back to council with our best sensible priced estimate or a sensible priced approach given that draft, make it good, come back.
Good enough. You know reaching out to four communities and looking at- We've already downloaded all those ordinance from other cities. Okay okay thank you. I mean that we have. It's easy enough to do. Thank you.
Roll call please.
Roll-call vote Passed 5–0
Show transcript
4:07 – 4:1340 turns
Motion passes.
There we go. Okay, wasn't sure if it was on so um you know and I'm here to talk about this energy efficiency ordinance but where I work Ramey Associates you know we are involved in a breadth of things a number of them are with this particular city so these are just you know a new council little context well you are in the process of updating your general plan which is supposed to be an opportunity to have some of these big conversations about what's important We're working on that with you.
And then, you know recently my understanding is, you know there was an approval to go forward with the climate action and adaptation plan that we're also working with you on so these are other channels to direct a lot of this energy that I'm hearing, and then I'm sorry to be sort of pedantic here but In the climate world mitigation is less greenhouse gas emissions and adaptation is preparing for the changing climate. So it a little Mixing up of these things. Thank you,
sir.
Okay. Thanks so much.
Thank you All right any council member reports No, yes go
I just want to welcome you all It's really it's going to be really great getting to work with both of you. So Thank you, and I had something to report and they can't remember from From Gold Coast. Oh, yes if you see a holiday, I'm I serve on the board of the Gold Coast Transit District And if we have that we've rolled out The holiday buses, so you might see some gingerbread themed buses driving around town. And and so that that was an exciting development that happened just last week.
Thank you. OK, City Manager's report.
No report Mayor.
Whoa, OK future agenda items I have some anybody else? Well, in very polite deference to my fellow council members I would suggest that we repeal the Rights of Nature Ordinance and move it to a study that involves more of the community. So I would suggest that we put that on the next agenda. And
if
Correct right that's for the next agenda, right? and then in the mayor have has the ability to do that without a second
correct the mayor can one of the the Few points with an elected mayor is one. It's different set of powers you can put on the agenda yourself But certainly if you get a second you can I'm
hoping for
a second.
I'll second it. Thank you.
There we go I will add though however, I believe the protocols also state that if I have some say as far as the timing. That is true too Mike.
Oh and you
know what?
I'm not sure I can second because I voted. Matt, you can tell me. Oh,
because
it's an entirely
new ordinance that will repeal an existing
one there's no rules on who can and cannot second it. And I'm just going to jump right in we have this fantastic document which you guys may or may not be familiar with yet but it's the working agenda document which I'm looking at right now and um I'm gonna tell you that January 28th is not possible for that. It's probably gonna have to be March
As soon as reasonable, how's that? That's
fair.
Okay my second stands yes thank you and then the other is just what was discussed tonight is on our agenda putting a joint meeting between the Historic Preservation Commission and this council okay that's all for now There's like 20 more things but I'm gonna pace us out.
You want to second on that one?
Oh sure! Thank you Mister Aikens will be pleased.
I think you should come meet with me and just ask the questions. That's why I'm there
for that.
Then you come here and talk
about it. Yeah, same thing we're happy
to sit down.
But I do suggest you talk to Ben first and he'll give you the lay of the land and then you can go check with anybody.
Perfect. Good, thank you.
You guys can go to Karo's right after this meeting if there was still a Karo's back in the olden days. Right?
Or you
could go to The
Hub. What a choice.
Was Beacon Coffee still here when you started? No.
4:13 – 4:1520 turns
It's oh, I blue is the one side of it. The other side was beacon before that was Carol
Ojai pub is still open Anyway,
that's
it so I'm oh
yes
I'd like to put a motion in to talk about open sessions and waiving privilege on all of the open sessions in the last two years so
that all of the things that have been
in closed session,
can come public, should come public. And in closing I can't help myself Andy, I'm so disappointed that you would do rights of nature without speaking with me but we will talk about it.
Well, so is your. No no I'm not worried but is your future agenda item to say that we will discuss that at a coming meeting? What you just said about
about what
about about waiving privilege we would discuss privilege
Yeah, exactly. It would be on an agenda item and eventually it would be a motion that would come to a motion and we can talk about the things that have been in closed session and we can talk about the things that were in closed session that we believe might not necessarily need to be in closed session and we Issues around closed sessions including the DA's Findings of recent so
no fair enough. I'm trying to ask for clarification So we will discuss the potential of waiving it We will not discuss everything that happened in closed session.
No, we have to we have to discuss waving it correct
and generally a discussion of waiving closed session privilege would itself have to be in closed session Allow the council to have that discussion, but I'm waiting a
second then if I mean we have not done that previously But if that's what you want to how you how you want advice to the council to structure it. That's fine I don't care. I mean however it works best is how it works best
My thought is it may require that for the initial conversation
Was there a second for that request?
I'll second that. And a click in closed session. Mostly because I don't know what I don't know. We'll figure it out later. This is where you will get to know. Meeting adjourned.