UnGovr Transcript
iHow this transcript is madeUnGovr transcribes the official recording with automated speech-to-text, separates speakers by voice, and matches voices to the seated roster. Names and attributions are AI estimates and may contain errors.Verify any quote yourself: click anywhere in the transcript and the official video jumps to that exact moment, so you can check any quote against the recording.Scheduled start 6:00 PM · clock-time estimates pending review
0:00 – 0:0826 turns
Okay, thank you. Thank you.
Mr. Summers?
All right, thank you. So the council met in closed session to consider item number two regarding existing litigation Santa Barbara Channel Keeper versus State Water Resources Control Board and City of Santa Buena Ventura versus Abbott. The council provided direction to staff and council and took no reportable action. I will note there is an open session item regarding that same lawsuit. Item number two which will impart include selection of who will be the city's representatives to the ongoing mediation discussions.
Other actions, no reportable actions taken. Items 1 and 3 will both be continued to a special meeting to be called for Tuesday February 4th at 6 p.m. here in Kent Hall That will be closed. Closed session, same items as listed now will be continued to Tuesday February 4th 6 p.m here so that's item 1 regarding the Habitat for Humanity site and item 3 regarding the indemnity request by Council Member Rule thank you It's on the agenda.
I'll repeat briefly, it's the item one is the Habitat for Humanity project aspects of real property negotiations and item three is the defense and indemnity request by Councilmember Rule in the Byrne v. Rule litigation. Those two items will be continued to a special meeting closed session February 4th Tuesday at 6 p.m., thank you. We want to
give it its proper due and we want you all here to say what you need to say so I will adjourn the closed session And now we're in open session. I know it sounds so funny to do that, but here we are. All right, so let's start. Welcome to our first meeting of 2025. Roll call please. Mr. Montgomery?
Roll call — called by Andy Gilman · 1 under review
Show transcript
Agenda Discussionitems moved / continued / pulled — click to expand
OK, we are on to the approval of the agenda and I have a couple of suggestions that I'd like to throw out. And I think my fellow council members have some as well. There's one tiny, I believe it's a typographical error that it's under the consent, but we'll talk about them in a minute. But in general, we want to make sure that the things that have to be covered tonight are moved up in the agenda because we have a lot to cover And I suspect that as we move these things around, it may alter the
public comments. So you may have come to speak on a particular item that we will move down. If so, you are welcome of course to speak if you decide you want to wait for another time, that is fine too. Either way is great. So, I would like to go to the staff first and ask if I can. Mr. Harvey, which items would you recommend should be definitely moved up first because they have something that's time sensitive? And then we can move other things down that a week or two won't make a difference.
Okay, thank you Mayor. Under your public hearing section of the meeting items number eight and nine have been publicly noticed. The city has paid for that public notice there may be folks that are anticipating that being considered tonight those are public hearings I would recommend first and foremost that those are brought to the top those should be considered tonight Outside of that, and this is for the council to decide of course.
I would recommend item number five, the professional services agreement with help of OHIBE considered this evening as they are already doing work on the city's behalf. Further, you have the first reading of an energy efficiency ordinance where there are folks that have made arrangements to be here including consultants both from CPA and from elsewhere. That would probably be wise.
And then I would say the other items are really up to the council to decide and we can be flexible on the staff side.
Could I make a point? Are we not on a 14-day time clock for item number seven and I think that we're very close.
I'm sorry yes so you do, yes that is absolutely time sensitive to thank you council member The council needs to make a decision tonight. The decision is not whether you're going to consider that project this evening, but whether you wish to do so in the future and that decision should be made tonight as well.
Forget that. That has been done. And it's not deep and it should be relatively easy and quick. It's just simply do we want to consider it? But we are at the deadline for that.
So if I might suggest then let's have item 7 be number 3. That's my proposal. Item 5 be number 4. Item six be number five. And then item, well I'm open to your suggestions and then I would suggest item four be number six? I know it's okay, I'll stay on top of it. And then item three would be number seven And that's the one I know many are here to speak about, I'm guessing from the faces out there.
My suggestion for moving that is because that's not something we have to decide tonight and there are things we do have to decide tonight.
Does
that make
sense? Sorry Mayor, for clarification on the public hearings 1 and 2? And then the call
up item? I was trying to think, as you suggested, if I heard you correctly. The current number eight would be number one? Okay. The current number nine would be number two? Have I heard you correctly?
And we're only speaking to the discussion and you're not speaking to consent, of course. Right.
Okay. And then item number seven being three, current item seven being the new three.
Okay.
Is the rest follow?
I'll say it again. Then help becomes four, the energy efficiency five, motor officer six. Yep. Cabin village cost model seven. Yep. Okay, that's it. Oh sorry we forgot number two. Oh that should probably be determined tonight as well. That yes right so you could want just make that easy mayor once
you call that like you know I don't know. That zero do that first? Sure okay that's zero number one or pre-one does everybody understand
Yes. Do we want to
go through that again so everybody knows?
No, I think if you just make it clear what we're speaking about when they come up, I'll be fine. Will do!
And I just wanted to note, we have a standard policy that after 10 o'clock we do not take new items. I want to at least bring up that is our standard policy and we perhaps should discuss it at the time that's most appropriate because these are serious items and we need to be on top of our game And we've been, you know. So I just want to make that clear.
Actually with that in mind, I'd like to pull the traffic, the motor cop from this agenda and bring it back at a future meeting.
Well, here's a, if I might offer this proposal. If we are going to be here on the 4th already then I will offer the suggestion that item four, the motorcycle officer and item three, the cabin village cost model go to that.
0:08 – 0:1334 turns
You could say Mayor if I may, just anything that you don't get to tonight just goes to that meeting if you like. Just to keep it
simple.
Starting with your closed session assuming you make it through
the closed session and then you go to that. It keeps us psychologically in the game which is
important.
The fourth a week from today one week from today We just want to make sure that we can give everything its proper time. Do I have a motion to approve the revised
agenda?
I'll second it.
All those in favor? Oh, sorry! Mr. Montgomery, call the roll, I suppose.
Roll-call vote Passed 5–0 motion to approve the revised agenda? I'll second it. All those in favor? Oh, sorry! Mr. Montgomery, call the roll,
Show transcript
Motion passes.
Thanks for being patient, you guys. So now we have your presentation?
Yes, Mayor. Mr. Harvey please. I'm going to ask that be queued up please and I will be brief. No.
Just to clarify, we are changing the order because there are things that have... We have a big agenda with lots of items. So what we're doing is removing the ones that are the most time-sensitive earlier in the evening and the ones that are not time sensitive later. And number three is one that does not have to be decided tonight. So my suggestion, you can do whatever you want.
I know many of you want to speak on it. My hunch for you is it's probably going to be the 4th. You're welcome to speak again and speak there or come back on the 4th and I apologize we have a big agenda but I realize a lot of you are here to speak and I do want to hear from you.
Maybe it would be a good idea to push that one since it looks like half of the people are here.
I can't understand what people are talking about, but we're trying – I could say we can just move it to the fourth?
Can I make a proposal that because it seems like maybe half the room is here to talk on item three, why don't we give them a date certain and say it's going to be the fourth for that one I agree with that 100%. That way we don't keep them here until 10 and then tell them they're going home.
That's what I would really like to do.
Do we need a motion to approve that modification of the agenda? Yes, I'll make that motion that we adjust the agenda so that we re-notice Item three.
Hey, guys, we're trying to tell you what's happening so that you can hear and come back at the right time. Yep. Am I not? Oh, OK.
Yeah. So my motion is that we move item three to February 4th because it's unlikely that we're going to get to it tonight.
I second that Mr. Weston Mr. Montgomery?
Roll-call vote Passed 5–0 move item three to February 4th because it's unlikely that we're going to get to it tonight. I second that Mr. Weston Mr. Montgomery? Roll c
Show transcript
Motion passes. Okay see you guys in a week.
Hold on a second. That was three. Okay. We'll wait one minute for the
room to clear.
Well, he's just walking out.
Troy Becker. But I'm going to take away three. Thanks.
You'd be fine if that one got pushed to the...
Okay,
hold on. Yep, come
on in.
Put
your mic on.
Okay I want to also
pull item
0:13 – 0:2740 turns
Current
item 7?
Yes.
Or current item 3? I would suggest using the numbers in the agenda packet.
Okay.
Former
Item
7.
It's Item 7, yeah former Item 7 now 3
mm-hmm
yes
you would like to pull that from the agenda and what move it to the fourth
no I'm good I don't have the issues that I had to have this come to fruition or no longer my constituents are fine
okay Can I make a statement? And I appreciate, you know, I did call Council Member Mang and ask her to second this. And she was gracious enough to do so because it is in her district. But I think it warrants at least a conversation about whether or not we want this impact And I would like the opportunity to be able to discuss what those impacts are so that we move into this, you know, with open eyes. Because this is going to change the look and feel of Ojai Ave., and I want us to know what we're doing as we move into that. It also went very, very quickly. It was one Planning Commission meeting and...
Well, excuse me. One Planning Commission meeting then the holiday and then the second Planning Commission meeting with two new commissioners. Not that they are great commissioners but they don't have institutional knowledge and I think you look at it from a planning point of view, but then you need to look at it as from a community point of view as to what is the impact of the community and do we want that. And I think that it ties into many of the discussions that we have had around tourism and around traffic. So I would ask that the Council leave it as-is. We have the discussion and, you know, we vote as we vote. I just want to air the issues, that's all – or not issues, I don't have issues That's okay. I'll take it.
Okay, so the net effect then is to change the second for the request for the council to consider the call for review from the originally enlisted Council Member Mang to instead be Mayor Gilman. It will still take a majority vote but that's what I understood you're doing there with your comment.
Yes, I'm seconding her request to bring up the issue. I am seconding it so that we can talk about it. Is that okay?
That's within your power and then that will come up when we get to that item tonight.
Okay. And sorry just to be clear we're talking about calling it up you're not talking about the actual
Right. To be clear, it's just a discussion about whether or not we want to review it in depth. Do we or don't
we?
That
is all that one can discuss tonight. And
that is all we need to discuss.
So with the switch from Councilman Mang to Mayor Gilman, that can happen on the item as approved before.
I did also want to thank Councilmember Mang for jumping in on one phone call. I much appreciate it. Yeah, thank you.
Okay. All right, so moving on. Thank you for your patience everybody. Okay we will go to now consent items the consent calendar oh sorry public communications first no
sorry mayor I think sorry that's okay let's good take a step back where we have a presentation and then followed by Commission reports and then please sorry I forgot the presentation okay thank you There's been a flurry of activity here tonight. Okay, thank you very much. I want to thank Councilmembers Mang and Whitman for the request for this item this evening. I will be very brief. I also want to thank Chief Newman and Chief Parker who are both here if there is any council questions. Thank you both for being here. So recently as we all know we endured a windstorm here in Ojai. Fortunately we did not have a fire storm. Next slide please.
The damage was not insignificant, largely down trees resulting in power outages and of course property damages that came with it. This is a shot along Kuyama. Those who live there will recognize it. Next slide please. So the City's response was largely based upon removing the downed trees from the public right-of-way, from the City property. And then working with our trusted partners, notably the Fire Department, the Sheriff's Department and Edison to get information out there about what was going on. What was open? What was available?
What was the best practice for learning more about the power outages etc.? ? However, the city did also establish some community green waste dumpsters so that people could dispose of their storm debris. Of course I don't need to tell everybody here that we obviously have a long history with wind and fire here in Ojai, notably the Thomas Fire of 1718. Which I believe is still the eighth largest in California wildfire history, although that changes seemingly every year.
We have a lot of discussions, documents, plans, reports that have been created in the wake of that. However, I would argue we have much to do and what I would like Have us focus on in the next couple months is how this should shape our City Council goals, which we will have in place for the next two years. What should we do strategically and methodically that we can accomplish to address this? Next slide please.
So yes, you have a goal-setting session that's coming up on the 25th of February. I would really much like for the Council to think about what they would like to see for that goal-setting session. I'm going to tell the Council now and at that meeting that we want a small number of goals—five Closer to five, probably. Why? Because we really want to accomplish things. We don't want to have 10, 20, 30, 40. We want to get some things done and I would say that emergency preparedness and fire hardening should probably be among the very top of what we do. Next slide please So we want community input here. In short order, likely next week we are going to launch a community survey so that the public can weigh in on what they think the council should be focused on for goals.
It'll be a simple survey, it will not be scientific. Yes, I understand that means some people could enter responses multiple times. We understand that we will get the survey results back to the council and the community in time to review in advance of the goal setting session so we're looking for everybody's good ideas next slide please This is a council decision, what the goals are and what the tactics that go along with the goals.
But just for sake of discussion tonight, for emergency preparedness and fire hardening some of your goals and tactics may include the potential installation of community warning sirens, working with Ventura County for more information about evacuation plans and routes and so forth. You could have legislation for home fire hardening with incentives. We could re-establish neighborhood watch programs and buddy up systems so that those who are vulnerable or elderly have someone who looks in on them during these times.
The City could decide to work with other cities in the region who are frustrated with Edison and their response during storms and power outages and restoration. That's something we could do. We could have a native plant education and planting program, it's been shown that those are more resilient in times of fire. We can have a fire hydrant system evaluation and assessment and so much more and that's why we want community input and that's of course why we want you to deliberate on the 25th. Next slide please.
And so that is it. And again, I do have both chiefs here if there's anything that you want to ask them. They are the experts. I didn't ask them to come tonight for a command performance presentation but be relieved. But anyway, that's my short presentation. I know we have a lot on the agenda. Thank you very much.
Thank you so much. Any questions from Council? Yes, please.
I don't have a question but I have a comment and that is just to thank our staff for being so responsive to the windstorm. I was driving around the neighborhood that morning and our city was already responding working to take care of the trees that had fallen down and to be very make personal connections with the people whose homes were most affected. And I'm also very excited about this topic, so just thank you for that.
Similar, I was really very pleased with the response. We were in a lot of communication that windy night and the next day and it's, in my mind, it's my number one priority for this council. We're taking this very, very seriously so you'll see a lot coming. There will be some things that will come up under some new business but that will be a big part of our goal setting and thank you for your presentation. Appreciate it very much.
Yes, please. Yeah I'll just say likewise and I was really heartened when I went outside and I saw neighbors all out there talking to each other looking at people's fences who had come down helping them move stuff it was a community effort and I think that can spur us to you know neighborhood watches and things like that and you know once again I think Public Works you know they rose to the occasion and there's really nothing but gratitude for them
Just for clarification, for the people here to get their input on the topic. Where will the survey, where will they respond? How is that going to come into play to notify them?
So those that subscribe to our city's social media channels will see it there. It'll be on the front page of our website and we'll do a news release as well. And then we'll also ask you to spread the word too.
Perfect thank you.
Mr. Harvey, while we have you on this subject would you please speak about what just came in everyone's mailbox on Saturday and what is potentially coming?
Why? I think you're talking about the Ojai Outlook. That's what I'm talking about. It's related. Yes, it's no coincidence that the front page article on the Ojai Outlook, thank you Mayor Pro Tem, is emergency preparedness starts at home. We're really asking our residents to use the QR code to download the Ventura County Emergency Preparedness Plan. That's our big focus but also as the mayor pro tem is pointing if you go further back in the Newsletter, you'll see there's an article talking about a refrigerator magnet that should be coming your way so that you have the VC alert information ever present in those times of need. So it goes to every single Ojai mailbox and thank you for that opportunity.
Thank you very much. Commission
reports? I know the public was very concerned about what was going on and the information that they were receiving, whether it was adequate or not. And I do want to say that there were, I think every single one of the council members here were very active in communicating about how we address things and move forward. And I want to make a special thanks to City Manager who helped me with an elderly person whose power was out and although a complaint had been made to Edison, somehow it never made it onto their complaint list. And I think she was about 72 hours without any electricity.
And what I learned in that process was that it's really important when your power is out, that you not only call Edison but you get an identification number for your incident. That allows you then to go back to them and say So I'd recommend that everybody do that and also we've talked about this as a potential future action, but you know think when we lose power or when we're in a state of emergency think about the elderly or disabled.
And, you know, make a call. We're going to try to set up a network that would help pick that up in a future agenda item that we would actually, you know...
A tactic is part of the goals. Yes. We'd be happy to do that.
Yeah. OK. Thank you. Thank you Mr. Whitman. Anything else? OK. Any commission reports? None received, Mayor. Thank you very much we'll move on to public communications first and so let me say there's I'm having I know some of these people left but I'm having something like 25 cards so if it's if you know that it's on the agenda for next week You can decide to let your card go and we can move on or speak if you wish to, but also try to be brief if you may. But say everything you want to say. I'm not trying to stop you. Okay so Mr. Steve Quilici first, Ruth Miller and then Sousa Francina.
0:27 – 0:366 turns
Good evening and welcome to 2025. I have a couple of comments I'd like to make as a private citizen and then one with my city clerk's hat on. The first two, I want to publicly thank the Public Works Department. As many of you know, I am a frequent pedestrian around the city, typically about four miles a day, six days a week. On a Saturday, I noticed a tripping hazard up on Daly Road.
I took a picture. I texted it to Lindy Palmer and I think Jose Morales. This is on a Saturday. Tuesday, I was back in that area and it was all cleaned up. That's exceptional response as far as I'm concerned. Second one that they did that I didn't even ask for on the lower part of Foothill Road there has been around 515-525 addresses Thank you very much. There's been an increase, I think, in the number of public record requests.
And I think that the best process for doing that would be to use the automated system that we have and so I just want to give a simple explanation for all those present and others who might be listening in. If you go to the city website, you will find a banner across the top that says things like government departments and other stuff So, from the city website ohi.ca.gov go to departments and then click on City Clerk that's one of those things in the column under departments and then go to PRR or public records request you'll find a form there that you can fill out and send it please to cityclerk at ohi.ca That way, both Weston and I will get it. We'll confer and do whatever is legal and proper to satisfy those requests. Thank you for your
time. Thank you Mr. Quilici. Appreciate that. Ruth Miller, Susa Francina, and then Larry Stengelt. Hello?
What are you saying? I'm Ruth Miller with the Unhoused Task Force, Friend of the Cabin Village and newly on-site Tent Town volunteer. Amy Weiss brought St. Francis Residence Steward Program to Tent Town on July 1st to help the residents. Her contract expired on December 31st. Tent Town was stabilized and her job was done. Well done, I might add. I know how much Ames meant to the residents, and I was concerned that they would feel unsettled. So I decided to spend Monday through Friday afternoons at Tent Town.
I went over January 1st which was the day Ames left. I received a warm welcome from the residents but they also expressed concern. They asked what's going to happen to it? Who is going to protect it? Think about that. The same people, some accused of being dangerous are concerned about their own safety and for good reason. They've been physically threatened.
It is for that reason that their living situation is also being threatened. The OTT residents are terrified of being on the street. The opposition to the cabin village say they are compassionate, but in the same breath, they want them outside the city away from their neighborhood. The opposition has not come up with any viable alternatives. The alternatives I've heard are bus them to Ventura, shut down tent town and let them disperse.
Let's just do what we've always done or let's send them to the river bottom Let's look at who it is they want to send away. 30% have lived in Ojai since birth or early childhood. Most are long-time Ojai residents. There's no one under 30, there are 12 in their 60s and three in their 70s. To be clear, 50% of tent town residents are over the age of 60 and many are disabled.
I have now spent many hours interacting with the residents of Penntown. They are not a danger to me or anyone else.
Thank you, Ms. Miller. Did Susan Pansina say that she... All in the fourth, great! Okay so then Larry Steingold, Shannon Richard and then Tim Kraut.
Hey, Larry Steingold. Good evening and Lindy needs a big shout out. The Ojai Cabin Village environmental report is on the website and it does not require recommend a phase two environmental. That's great! But they do not necessarily suggest that it's safe for residential use as an industrial property after being 60 years. The idea that a Phase II is not recommended And my years of experience for this particular site strikes me as strange, okay? Only because of the usage. If I was a lender, I'd be running the other way.
There were questionnaires asked and answered by Mr. Seibert and Brian Schumer. Lucas has been a member here seven years, eight Brian, eight weeks. Maybe he played down there as a kid. Okay? But he's not aware of this. He's not aware of that. That's fine. Did anybody ask Lindy? Did anybody ask the employees who work there? Has anybody asked anybody else about anything there? There are tanks. City-owned tanks I believe uphill.
When was the last time they were tested? Okay, just out of curiosity for our own benefit. To see if they're leaking or not. And they are uphills and if they are leaking it's downhill this is where this is so I'm concerned about this property needing a phase two and then us doing one and finding out it's dirty because now it affects the city's budget and my lifestyle here So my concern is if they do a phase two and you find out it's dirty, we got a problem.
And if you don't do the phase two, you have a problem. So while this site—I mean to me, this is a perfect site in a sense. It's owned by the city. It sort of out of the way. It sort of level. It sort of this, it sort of that. So that would be my first inclination but there are other properties out there. They just have to be made the right offer They just have to be what makes a deal. Well, I don't want to sell. Fine. Do we do it eminent domain? I don�t want to go that way and pay them big money. But there are other locations that make more sense as a practical matter. That's where I'm going on this.
And then they say, well, they inspected it. Does the company that sweeps up the streets do the dumps there? Is that where the fill goes? I don't know. That's just a question. Who maintains the site? How was it maintained 10 years ago, 15 years ago when people spilled things? Was it graded away? So it's just the idea of the fear of not doing the phase two, doing the phase two. If I was going to put if my mother, God forbid, was there, I'd be a little concerned on an industrial piece of land that I know only because... Thank
you Mr. Steingold. Shannon Richard, Tim Kraut and then Lena McNeilly. Shannon Richard? Okay, Tim Kraut, Lena McNally and then Anita Cram.
0:36 – 0:426 turns
Good evening Council staff. What I want to bring to your attention tonight is the eight acre campus community service grant that was commissioned by last year's council to do a study on the property here at City Hall I want to thank Ben for the slideshow that he just presented that kind of leads me into why I'm here. I am concerned about the 386 trees that you have on this property that haven't been addressed And in this report by the arborist, and I'm not an arborist, by the way. But you can go out there and look at these trees and just by looking at them, you can tell they're in distress.
You can tell that there has been neglect for years. This isn't something that happened one, two, three, five years. It's gone on for years and it hasn't been addressed. But in this arborist report by Jan Skro, he lists 28 trees That are hazardous, that should be removed. 28 trees. We were lucky that that wind didn't bring down some of those trees. Some of those trees are around buildings, that would add more cost to the city so they're more liable.
Those things should be looked at and addressed and taken out or trimmed back. There are non-native trees here that should be looked at maybe removed if those are taking in more water why do we have those? So, I gave Kim a report and Andy because I know both of you weren't here last year. Real strong, hard look at it because we have a clear and present danger now.
Thank you.
Thank you Mr. Kraut. Mr. Harvey, you mentioned something that's something in progress or please fill us in on that?
Yes mayor the council last year approved a master plan through the Green Coalition and that is part of the effort trying to determine what needs to be done with the landscape and habitat around the
campus. Leanna McNally, Anita Cram and then Dean Wigger.
Thank you. Good evening, welcome back and Happy New Year! I want to dispel some of the disinformation that's been circulating regarding the Cabin Village and the proposed site for it. And I'm just going to go through a list. First, the completion of the Cabin Village will not attract more homeless people from out of the area. To be eligible to rent there, you must be an Ojai Valley resident. Next, the cabin village project will serve 30 people period. There will not be additional tents or structures erected to house more than 30.
Third, the public works yard is not a fire trap. The interior portion of the public works yard has been Just that, for decades. It's so barren that you'll actually be able to get fire insurance for it. Native trees and vegetation does grow on the perimeter of the lot making the Cabin Village project virtually invisible from any street. Fourth references to armed guards at Tent Town are a constant refrain we hear. Of the seven to eight regular security personnel at the Tent Town Two of them carry guns. The city did not request that they carry guns, and the city does not pay for them to carry guns. They do not carry guns to protect themselves from the residents. They carry guns because that's just what they do. They carry them all the time to the park, to the grocery store, wherever they go.
It's a thing. Number five, I've read that the current residents of Tent Town might be okay but what about future residents? The residents who live here don't want aggressive or disruptive neighbors. And the residents will be signing a lease when the cabin village is complete to pay rent and be required to adhere to certain guidelines. Number six, there's been a concern about the lack of parking and increased traffic at the maintenance yard. There are currently only three cars owned by the 30 residents. Traffic in parking is not an issue and it will not become one.
Seven, I've heard complaints that the public works yard is by a park. And I just want people to remember that the current site is in a park consisting of an ecologically sensitive riparian woodland. And number eight, there is a persistent narrative that the county needs to partner with Ojai and use the Honor Farm or other county lands for this project. I beg the council to yet again clearly I clarify this issue tonight.
Time does not allow me to cite the other many instances of misinformation, but a few residents should not be able to shape the narrative surrounding this project. Thank you.
Thank you very much. Anita Cram, Dean Wigger and then Robin Gerber
0:42 – 0:5614 turns
Good evening, everyone. Welcome all new members. So I want to briefly talk about the creek that is west of the Cottages Among the Flowers and I want to thank Lucas Seibert for coming out and walking us through answering questions And I also want to say that the creek there is gone. As was mentioned, the ecologically sensitive woodland riparian habitat is destroyed in an area there. I'm not sure the creek will even flow south of there. It may just sit in a big pipe underground.
Okay so moving on from that... In the construction zone that is fenced off, there are many adult historic trees in there. None of them have been protected. Several days ago last week Lucas did mention to the developers that they are remiss in this. There are still no protections up for the trees. Several of them have abrasions on them. It's nothing serious at this point but there is a lot of earth moving equipment back there And they're going to start moving rocks. And I'm just really concerned about these trees, the largest valley oak on that property has abrasions on it. They're not serious but yet so please you know we protect trees here let's do it and then I would like to ask that on the survey that you do For goals, can you email that to the people who are on the council agenda email list?
That would be very helpful if that were able to be done. Okay I think that's it for now thank you. Thank you Ms.
Graham. Dean Wigger, Robin Gerber and then Christine Bednar
Hello, Council Members and staff. Thank you for being here to hear me this evening. My name is Dean Wigger and I'm a concerned resident of Ojai. I wanted to address the public and the council members tonight on a subject that has raised much concern in our city—the idea of whether or not Cabin Village is best suited in the Ojai Maintenance Yard. I spent considerable amounts of time recently researching the past decisions that have led up to our current state of contention on this subject and would like to offer my opinions on a better way forward.
First of all, I would like to urge the Council to take a pause and listen to its constituents, concerned residents and business owners alike. 300 of which, to date, have signed a Change.org petition asking them to reconsider this site as the best possible option. You can find it at change.org forward slash o-m-y dash say no to maintenance yard Second, to conduct a more in-depth analysis of the alternative sites that were previously proposed, especially considering the new information that has been brought to light that the project is not mandated by the California Department of Housing and Community Development who administered the EORF grant to be in the city limits of Ojai. I repeat, not mandated to be in the city limits of Ojai.
Third, to involve the community in a more transparent fashion than it has embarked upon with regard to the site selection. I believe the fashion in which the Council decided on this site behind closed doors may have been a violation of the Brown Act. Fourth, maybe reconsider the members of the ad hoc committee that advises the City on this project. Comprised it of members other than the proponents of pushing the project forward at breakneck speed and with their own interests in mind.
Again to listen to us when we say that we feel unsafe. It's for good reason there have been many many accounts of crime associated with OTT As recent as last December 29th, when a 43-year old man, this is according to the OVN, was arrested in the 100 block of Santa Ana OTT for battery with serious bodily injury and being under the influence of a controlled substance.
I personally heard from the previous resident Stewart that she believed as much as 80% of the residents suffered from mental health and substance abuse issues. Do we really think this is going to change when we have private tiny cabins for them? Lastly, to reconsider the model of providing 30 residents with permanent supportive housing without first putting them through a program for interim housing. Yes, I'm saying that this model doesn't go far enough in helping the current population of unhoused. We need a program that addresses the reasons why they are in their current predicament of being unhoused, one that addresses the substance abuse and mental health challenges and then offers solutions on how best integrate back into society.
In conclusion, this is the very kind of work that is best left to be partnered with the County of Ventura and in a location there's room to expand such as the owner farm which is currently leased for 30 years with the help of Ojai for $1. And have even heard it comes with a resident on the property who was the current director of Help of Ojai so we clearly don't have any neighbor issues there.
This location is a quarter mile from the existing trolley stop of Baldwin and Rice Roads, and I'm sure the City could expand that route to include a stop at the new Camden Village site should it be chosen. Please consider alternative sites for this project and put in the work to address the concerns of all your constituents. Thank you very much.
Hello, welcome Mayor and Councilmember Mang. I'm Robin Gerber, I live here in Ojai. Let me just take a second to thank the most amazing staff that we have in this city who are at Ojai Hospital where my husband's having an extended stay but they are absolutely amazing and we are really blessed to have them. I am hearing to speak about the Cabin Village With the distribution of flyers by those opposed to the Cabin Village project, we're once again fracturing into sides.
Accusing the other of lying or manipulating facts, heading straight down the path to more obscene legal spending than we managed last year. This is not inevitable, although it feels that way. The city can foster compromise by acting now to bring a professional mediator to work with the disputing parties. This has been done before when we put in the Historic District on Termina there was a lot of dissent between the groups on Termina and there was a mediator who came who was just wonderful helped us work that out The position of those wanting no housing for homeless at the public works yard appears immovable.
But what are the real interests behind those positions? This is what mediation gets at. It's only by knowing those interests that a compromise can be fashioned. Similarly, those trying to build this village have staked a position to use the public works yard But are their underlying interests fully understood? It is always the case that one side thinks they know what the other side really wants and why they want it, but it's rarely true.
This is where professional mediation is effective. I'm sure some of you have used it for business, maybe personal reasons. Mr. Harvey talking options which is great negotiating with the other side isn't negotiation that's different than a mediation. A professional mediator speaks to and gains the trust of each side and tries to broker a compromise in there truly a neutral Will it work? I don't know. We don't know until we do it. You can't know till you try, but it's relatively inexpensive and it would avoid litigation and it has the great benefit of bringing our community hopefully together. So I strongly urge you Mayor, Council, City Manager, Hire a mediator experienced in community disputes before we again end up on a costly and divisive legal merry-go-round.
Let me end with Eleanor Roosevelt, our former First Lady who said where after all do universal human rights begin? And her answer is in small places close to home. Thank you.
Thank you Ms. Gerber. Christine Bednar, Barbara Donahue and then Christy Scott. Hello.
Hello. Hello, I'm Christine and I've lived in Ojai for about 10 years. I'm here tonight to voice my opinion on the site selection in regards to Cabin Village. To begin, I applaud the city's City Council for doing something positive and I do believe life-changing for the individuals that will be living here. I think everyone that has come here today and at past meetings would agree that this is the right and moral thing to do.
My overall sense, though, is that it just seems to me that the vetting of an appropriate safe and accessible location has been short-sighted. I base this on the fact that we are talking about permanent housing for 30 individuals. From what I gleaned from the Frequently Asked Questions page on the City's website, which is dated back to July 19th, 2024, which may or may not have up-to-date information, is that the City requested realtors to come up with site options. It was narrowed down to four of which all the persons and businesses located near these sites said not in my backyard.
In so many words, for mostly valid reasons. It seems the maintenance yard wins because the homeowners adjoining this area don't seem to get the same say. Well I feel for them as I am sure they feel unsafe and unheard just like the others did. Which is why I'm here tonight to encourage, plead, ask this City Council elected by its constituents to listen to our concerns.
The concern about the closeness to homeowners' backyards are Central Park Children's Playground and businesses. I feel that for such an important, permanent endeavor saying that you are under deadline isn't good enough. This maintenance yard butts up against the heart of our town and it just doesn't feel like you dedicated the time or correct resources to properly vet an appropriate site that could be a win-win for the town and all of the homeowners.
Instead, it's the past of least resistance if you select this site. One that would be permanently placed in the center of town and I just hope that you'll consider and review other possibilities. Thank you everybody for your time.
Thank you, Ms. Bednard. I do need to... I meant to ask for this and I forgot but I do want to ask the Council this in the past we would hear all the public comments first last council you had decided to move it 30 minutes and then 30 minutes later my hunch is we can get through all of the public comment cards but it would probably be something on the order of 25 more minutes so I want to defer to you first if I would suggest that we finish that so that people can leave if they want to but if there's a big objection I want to hear that too Yes, okay. I'm fine with
that.
Thank you very much. Barbara Donahue, Christy Scott and then Gail Churchill. Okay, thank you very much. Barbara? Yes, thanks.
Hello?
Yes.
My name is Barbara Donoghue. I've lived in OFI with my family, with three kids for more than 22 years.
The microphone should be closer so we can everybody can hear you. Yes thanks. I know you're yes
wonderful. One of the things that is bothering most about this debate is the vilification. Yes, vilification There was a recent write-up by Friends of Cabin Village about the people who are pro changing from the maintenance yard, who seem intent on portraying us as quote unquote wealthy people that are spreading that are spreading lies and we're out of touch.
Have you looked around the neighborhood that surrounds the village? Here, you talk to them. If so, you would find concerned hardworking citizens and families who live in houses, condos, apartments They just want to feel safe and live a peaceful life. And of course, Libbey Park filled with parents who are concerned about a permanent village with intensive care management, medical and mental health care, and substance abuse treatment services next door to where the children play.
They call our concerns hysterical because we question safety and the necessary need for security personnel at the premises Yet, it can't be denied requests for police assistance from neighbors and other surrounding areas around Ojai Tent Town have dramatically increased over the past year. They say we lack compassion when we're only asking common sense questions that the City of Ojai has not answered.
So my respectful request to proponents of the Maintenance Yard site is stop the vilification, stop calling us liars. Stop portraying us as uncompassionate citizens. Let's work together with the City Council and find a solution in City Council. Help the people that need help and find an optimum location Thank you.
0:56 – 1:046 turns
Good evening. Happy 25th. Welcome, Mayor. My name is Christy Scott and I live on South Blanche Street just five houses down. I've lived near the tent town for close to a year now. I understand people's reluctance and fear about having Cabin Village near them. I felt the same way about Tent Town at the end of my block. I started talking to my neighbors, and found out that they too felt a little ambushed when the City first moved to create Ojai Tent Town in the parking lot here.
But the city bought the tents to create some order out of chaos and get people off the ground during rains. We neighbors met with Ben Harvey several times, and he listened to our concerns and reported what he could. Over a couple of months with a facilitator named Amy, things started to happen with this tent community and the troublemakers who wouldn't abide by good neighbor rules—they were gone.
Everything settled down. People put some potted plants around, other Ojai folks created a meal train dropping off dinner. I have found that the residents of Ojai Tent Town now are friendly and polite. I see them every day walking past my house. It's different now. I'm not opposed to these people in my neighborhood. However The maintenance yard has more room. We can take care of more people.
I can't wait to see the proposed plans at the February 19 Planning Commission. I'm hearing all kinds of news, particularly interesting to me as an interior designer. I want to see the tiny home style. I want to see landscaping So now I think this is going to be a great project. However, that's not everything. I also learned more about the good neighbor contract that these citizens are required to sign and live by.
I also learned about the rent they are required to pay. There are now no parasites or freeloaders who decided to pitch a tent in the park. That's gone. They are gone. The residents are now vetted by help of Ojai. We only have those poor residents who need a helping hand, not a handout.
Thank you, Miss Scott. T. Doug Labar and then Delaney Labar A T first. T first, Doug. Sorry. It's a very short name. Yes.
Tadeo.
Thank you so much. My name is Tadeo. Last name Tevandeke. OK. Thank you for giving me this chance. I'm a Brooksy student. I graduated from Brooks, and I've been trying to survive. My house went into a massive fire and I take care of my mom as I was little before I came to the United States. I took care of my mom and I'm still doing that. And right now, I'm being framed for some crap. I don't know.
And I stayed here so that I can tell you all your because you guys have the power. You have the power to change everything and that's all I'm going
Thank you very much. Thank you. Doug Labar, Delaney Labar and then Patty Braga.
The proposed cabin village on Public Works property would be a demonstration of grace for those less fortunate of Ojai. Ojai is comprised of more than vibrant, productive and capable wealthy people. We also have those who are challenged by physically, emotionally and or economically limited functions as well as unlucky that will be a community characteristic for time eternally There will always be those who cannot keep up the pace and cost of modern life.
We are judged by those within our community, as well as those outside our community for how we conduct ourselves in the face of adversity. Consider the conditions of the tent town as it is. Camping, no running water, below freezing weather Plastic porta-potties that must be walked to in the middle of the night. No showers. Being observed and monitored by people who most likely don't understand your predicament.
And now, Ojai is debating over whether to use an unexpected windfall to create a working alternative to the situation or keep kicking the can down the road. Please. Take a moment to consider how difficult it must be to elevate oneself out of a desperate position, especially considering the cost of housing as it exists today. Make no mistake, I'm speaking about our community of low-income families, elderly individuals and people with disabilities that need to find safe, decent and affordable housing in our community of the private rental market.
It doesn't exist. And that is clearly why we have this situation that is duplicated in communities all over the state We have vetted potential sites with the help of professionals and community input. The Cabin Village is where we have landed. We need empathetic effort to make this happen. Have we no grace in our hearts? Have we lost all compassion? Please take a moment to consider what we could do to demonstrate a solution that can be duplicated in other communities struggling with the same challenges.
Thank you.
1:04 – 1:126 turns
Good evening. Welcome Councilmember Mang and new Mayor Andy, and all the rest of you who just keep working hard. My name is Delaney Labar. I also live on South Blanche. As a retired filmmaker, I know that imagery and story are powerful inspirational persuaders so I am very excited to see the upcoming presentation by Cabin Village architects and developer Dignity moves. My understanding is that the presentation will be on Wednesday, February 19th at the Planning Commission meeting? Is that correct? Great. It can't happen soon enough.
Let this be the last winter our seniors and vulnerable residents are living outdoor in tents during below freezing temperatures night after night. It's common human nature to be reluctant about or fear another tribe of people. It's the story of mankind, yet what I know is that proximity and familiarity with others can yield surprising relationships and outcomes.
So I recommend that people listening online and people in the room continue to keep coming or Zooming. To the Planning Commission and City Council meetings, continue to be informed in order to dispel whatever false reservations you may have or to have a platform for your concerns. And hey, why not sign up to bring a lunch to 30 people at Tent Town and get to know your neighbors?
Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Labar. Patty Braga, Raul Alvarado, and then Kara Ralston
Good evening Mayor Gilman, City Council members and Ojai residents. My name is Patti Braga and I'm the Executive Director of Ventura County Leadership Academy. I feel like I came on kind of an exciting day. VCLA is a locally based nonprofit whose mission and purpose is to connect people in issues to strengthen our county. We do this by taking a diverse network of passionate leaders from the business, education, non-profit and public sectors and we immerse them in the critical issues facing Ventura County.
We hear from subject matter experts on water, housing, transportation, education, public safety and a host of other subjects. We build relationships across industries and across the county. VCLA has a network of over 745 alumni, and we are currently in our 30th year. I'm here to share with you our 22nd annual Journey to Leadership Award honorees and invite you to the luncheon hosted this year at Sakari Dunes at Mandalay Beach in Oxnard.
The Journey to Leadership Awards Luncheon recognizes leaders in the business, education, nonprofit and public sectors who have made an exceptional impact on our community. This year's honorees include our Business Leader of the Year is Edgar Terry, President and CFO of Terry Farms or Terry's Berries. Educational Leader of the Year is Dr. Leanne Nielsen, Provost at California Lutheran University Our non-profit leader of the year is Darcy Taylor, CEO of Habitat for Humanity of Ventura County.
Our public sector leader of the year is Selena Zacharias, a commissioner with the Oxnard Harbor District Port of Wainimi. Our alumni of the year is Kevin Brannon, the founder of Real Guppy Outdoor Not For Profit And our Founders Award this year, named after our founder Dr. Priscilla Partridge de Garcia is Dr. Stephen Elson, CEO Emeritus at Casa Pacifica who was in VCLA's Class 1. I hope you can join us Thursday April 24th for lunch in Oxnard as we celebrate these amazing honorees. Thank you.
Thank you very much. Raul Alvarado, Kara Ralston and then Daryl Ralston Okay, Kara Ralston and then Daryl Ralston and then Jeffrey Starkweather.
Mr. Mayor and Council Members, thank you. Well the agenda was jiggled to death and eventually the item was removed. One of the reasons for bringing one of the items forward was stated that because those people had taken the time to come here and be here. I too took the time so thank you for hearing me on this. You've been elected by us to represent us And to lead the stewardship of the various neighborhoods, also known as districts.
But not elected to determine that some of those areas are expendable or that their opinions don't matter. With regard to the Cap'n Village idea being proposed, the public works yard being proposed as a site for it. If, and it remains probably a question of if, this is such a good idea. Doesn't it deserve an equally good effort and due diligence to find an appropriate location?
That hasn't happened quite yet. Moving these people, this idea into the public works yard seems a little bit of a ramrod process at this point. For a project of such scope scale and expense and such far-reaching community impact, a professional real estate expert maybe should have been contracted and given parameters for success which should have included community engagement and buy in Because of this continued lack of genuine concern for the whole community, you're now hearing over and over again from constituents who will not be still about the idea yet of the public works yard.
Not liking the public works yard as a location for Cabbage Village is not never has been about denying help to those in need. Thousand Oaks and Santa Barbara have similar projects, but they wisely located them in appropriate areas where they had the best opportunity to create positive impact. They're in industrial areas. There are other places. Pause this project and do it right.
If this is an appropriate idea then the effort to find an equally appropriate location should be the priority rather than the fast path of least resistant approach. Because there is resistance as presented right now. There is not a lack of grace or compassion that drives questions about the public works yard. Questioning and questions are not a lack of grace or compassion, they're the duty of citizens.
I thank you for hearing me.
Thank you. Daryl Ralston, Jeffrey Starkweather and Jim Churchill. Right there, yeah.
1:12 – 1:173 turns
Mr. Mayor and Council, my name is Gerald Ralston and I've spoken here before about this subject and I've written each of you an email expressing my concerns but tonight my message is simple If the public works yard is selected for Cabin Village, eventually the city's going to have to buy another parcel to store materials and all the things that public work agencies do.
And without a storage yard it hamstrings the city's ability to conduct business. For many years, the cities used this site to store materials, machinery, equipment, debris, surplus items on city-owned property without any delay or permission pending their planned disposition. Every city, county, federal agency has a need to store things in a safe secure location until their disposition can be determined. Oftentimes, the process is time consuming Ask any government manager that has responsibility for logistical needs and you'll find out that they can't just sell, buy, donate, give away, dispose or destroy a public property without a process, without approvals and paperwork.
It's how public agencies do business. If the city allows cabin villas to be constructed on the public works site, the city will need to look for a piece of property eventually to conduct or to conduct business as a storage yard in the future. This may not be right away however you're going to have to spend a million and a half to three million dollars at some point to buy a parcel and parcels are at the rate that If industrial property is available, which is minimal in Bryan Street, it's going to be a difficult process that would wait too long.
So any future public works storage site won't be convenient for city staff if it's not located adjacent to other city functions. It'll need fencing, screening and security. So once again, how long will desirable property be available? Cabinville is located on the public work site will impact the future city leaders of the City of Ojai.
Thank you. Thank you Mr. Alston. Jeffrey Starkweather, Jim Churchill and then Clay Creasy
Thank you. This previous public input has kind of led into what I was going to speak about anyway, which is good. First of all, I want to thank the city manager for finally having us really focus on fire and I want to talk about what I'm talking about is related to what you're gonna be doing in terms of getting citizen input and so forth. But also, as we've heard tonight, people upset about the cabin village.
And of course we haven't got to the energy conservation issue but those are two examples and we've had a whole bunch of them where we've ended up with a policy or a contract proposal where there really hasn't been a transparent process And I can tell you from going around door to door during the campaign, I got this complaint from almost every household. They don't know what's going on.
Secondly, there is clearly a lack of citizen engagement of diverse size. Now what if all the speakers that passionately spoke on both sides of this issue had been sitting down together on a regular basis, maybe every couple of weeks and talking to each other? and trying to come to some compromise or consensus. So, and I'm proposing this for the fire thing too.
It's what I call deliberative democratic engagement. And I want to read something from Citizen Lab because sometimes people don't get confused about what deliberation means. Deliberate democracy is a system of governance where political decisions are made On deliberation, thoughtful discussion and debate among community members. The emphasis is placed on informed consent rather than voting. Community members engage as equals weighing evidence and presenting arguments to reach a consensus.
This approach not only values input from diverse populations but also considers collective reasoning process fundamental to democratic legitimacy. Community members are encouraged to hear and think differing viewpoints, and foster a more nuanced understanding of complex social issues." I could go on, but the keys here are inclusion, equality of voice, and giving rational reasons, facts that support your point of view.
I think this is something our city has been missing. We've asked for, you know, we have commissions on recreation. We have commissions on arts. We have commissions on historic development. And we should have one on fire, not a commission necessarily but a task force and we should create task force when we have these kinds of disputes so we don't get into them and think how much time anger Legal costs, we have...
1:17 – 1:268 turns
Thank you Mr. Starkbrother. Jim Churchill, Clay Creasy and Rebecca. I saw Jim Churchill but he left? Okay. Clay Creasy and then Rebecca.
Thank you, Mayor Gilman and the Council as well. I had originally going to be talking on Item 3 which has now been postponed to next week but fortunately have these moments to still make comments. I made a special effort to be here tonight because I normally work up in the Bay Area during the week so that's my tale of woe. I'm going to take my prepared comments and reverse them because of the different format we've got here. And I'm going to talk first about – Robin Gerber mentioned how people kind of get in polarized groups, it'd be nice to get some sort of mediator to bring us together. I'll give you an example of the polarization process.
There's a, one of the statements of the group in favor of the cabin village at the maintenance yard says that those who are against that are, and they're a small group of wealthy people who want to cause everybody to be afraid of homeless people. Well, my sister is schizophrenic. Has been that way since 1975. Took a great deal of effort to get her into a protected supportive housing situation. My parents went through hell to do it. It's been 50 years.
She is now safe. I'm not afraid of my sister. I am very sympathetic to people who are either that way or are related to people who are For somebody to say that I am against the maintenance yard because I am hard-hearted and let them eat cake. This is not correct. Robin Gerber's approach could help bridge that gap. I also want to talk about the cost model that was an agenda item that has now been pushed back. As I've shared in an email to you and in a few one-on-one discussions, I think there are very significant shortcomings in that cost model. They run the gamut from You know, basic math errors failing to add a column of numbers correctly. Assumptions that do not tie to the fact.
to assumptions that are very aggressively optimistic, things that have been left off, et cetera. So that cost model as it stands right now in my world where I was a CFO for a number of large companies, it would be – to be kind, I'd say go back and do it again. And that's really what has to happen. I also want to share with you a couple of facts that I have dug up on the Dignity Moves Company. They certainly have a good marketing scheme, but they also have a terrific profit formula. They last year made $7 million profit on 32 million in revenue. Meanwhile, Help of Ojai lost $800 last year on the bottom line.
Thank you, Mr. Quilici. I appreciate you making the extra effort. Rebecca?
Hi, my name is Rebecca. I'll leave my last name off the agenda for now. I don't know if the City Hall staff here is all aware but I have emailed some information forwarded it as well as forwarded to our City Hall Chief of Staff, as you know him, the Safety Commission I had an interesting discussion via chat session, text messaging last night. Speaking on behalf of myself, I would like to share my information.
I myself am from the state of Maryland. I grew up there for 31 years. I lived in Montgomery County, Maryland as a Montgomery County resident for 31 years and had the experience that, of course, then be shared or related to here in Ojai City Hall, in reference to these contract agenda issues and also document. In the city of Rockville, Maryland that is a standardized leased form format. Okay and this came from my personal experience with my now ex-boyfriend his mother Sadly, we broke up of course but his mother was superintendent of Baltimore schools. Her name is Carmen Holmes and his father of course was a real estate, excuse me, men's warehouse salesperson.
We had a child together, broke up and prior to that had an active lease for the course and period of two full years. I was the primary signer we paid every month on time. He was absent for the period of three months prior to or actually post to our initial move-in But when we signed for this original real estate lease contract in the state of Maryland, this is in Rockville, Maryland. That's not Bethesda. That's not any other city in the D.C. area as you all know or may know. Maryland is the third smallest and third newest state to enter the U.S. Constitution. Thank you.
The lease contract that I, myself experienced as a primary signer was—I found very effective. Now, I felt it was intensely extremely overpriced and went from $800 to $1,000. This was— I'm going to have to ask you to cut off.
We can talk later though, you and I. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Rebecca.
Mr. Montgomery is there anything online? Yes mayor we do have a couple raised hands now and I'll just tell all of our zoom participants we are on the general public comment period and we're taking all general public comments now instead of the remainder option thank you first we have Shanti followed by Michelle Shanti you have the floor
Hello, I just want to firstly thank a few of the people who spoke earlier with so much compassion for Tent Town. And I just want to echo that they said it much better than I could have. Yeah, I feel like I think that you know someone earlier said that People who are opposing the current proposed Tent Town location are just trying to live their peaceful lives, and I think that's true about the people who aren't at Tent Town right now. So we need to extend that same kind of care, and they are also just trying to live peaceful lives. So I think the least we can do is provide them with an option, and i'm very grateful that the City has gotten this far with the process I'm also concerned that if another site is discussed, there's going to be the same issues that we're seeing now.
Property owners are in whichever site you can pick any place, there's going to be people who are going to oppose this project so I'm welcoming also to the new Thank you, Mr. Mayor and thank you to all the people who are on the City Council and I really hope that you push this project forward and it would be such a terrible shame if we lost this funding so we do have to act quickly and I just want to yeah just echo that I support any location especially one A location for Tent Town. So yeah, let's just have compassion in our hearts and try and focus on working with the options that we currently have. And there is going to be problems with any so we need to work with the timing we have. Thank you so much and welcome to the new City Council members.
Thank you.
Our last raised hand on Zoom we have is Michelle. Michelle, you have the floor?
1:27 – 1:347 turns
Good evening, this is Michelle Ellison. I'm a resident of Ojai and part of Electrify Ojai which is a local volunteer-led effort to help reduce emissions in our community. I just want to make a very brief public service announcement. There's a wonderful opportunity for those in need of a new water heater to take advantage of thousands of dollars in rebates currently available for heat pump water heaters making them very low out of cost or in some cases free. For example there's like We have $3,800 rebate from Tech Clean California which is a statewide rebate program. And those dollars will probably run out in the next few months so and then we have like $1,000 from the Tri-County Regional Energy Network, 3C REN it's called along with federal tax credits up to $2,000.
Heat pump water heaters for those who might not be familiar are four times more efficient than gas water heaters so they'll significantly lower our energy use We have one in our home and are happy with it. Electrify Ojai is partnering with SunWork, which is a non-profit organization, and they're a licensed contractor that can do these installs. They're currently scheduling installs in Ojai in February.
So for anyone interested or wanting more information, you can contact Reuben with SunWork. His name is Reuben and his number 650-520-9918 or reuben at sunwork dot org. Or you can visit our electrifyohio.org website. Thanks.
Thank you, Miss Ellison. That's all me. Wonderful. I have a suggestion for the council. May we do consent? And then we'll take a quick break. Are you guys up for that? Oh, there's more. Oh, I don't have any more cards but please. Okay. Was it on the public comments? Then please come. Thank you.
Thanks. State your name just so we've got it. David Mendoza, City of Ojai. Thanks for the opportunity to speak today. I was here to speak on the cabin village but you have a fire chief here, Chief Fisher here, so he's probably a good guy to talk to if you have questions today. The chief and I worked on several different events in the city of Ventura and in the county of Ventura.
First, I kind of just want to mention I'm kind of like, I've got a heart too and I get offended easily. My integrity is being questioned and my compassion is being questioned today. I spent 30 years of my life responding to calls and a huge part of those calls were to the homeless population. You know, I took care of the homeless for 30 plus years to think that I don't care. Two of my family members were homeless.
Yeah, it's I volunteered my time to go to Mexico another country. I went to Biloxi Mississippi after Katrina hit. I've worked here in our schools building props for plays for years and years and years you know? I like people. To think that we any of the people that are opposed to the location or opposed to this population is just not true. You know We're all Ohians. We need to help Ohioans, but that is just not true. I wish they would stop vilifying people. It's just inaccurate.
What I would like to speak to, I had to say that. I'm sorry, I had to say that first. It hurts me. This is a great publication. Thanks for sending it. Unfortunately, I got it a couple days after I had sent the request to get some work done in Lower Libbey Park. I'm going to still work with the City. I'll contact and have some meetings so that we can kind of do a walkthrough and express what I would like done to do some fire hardening and hazard remediation at that location.
My background, you know how, what the heck do I know about that? Well, fire captain when I retired 30 plus years. I'm a state certified fire inspector. I ran the weed abatement program for the city of Santa Paula for a couple years. So I think I kind of know about weed abatement and hazard reduction. While that horrendous event was going on down south There were two events going on in Ventura that were caused by homeless, right?
I went to the county and got reports on calls to vegetation fires in the city of Ojai. There were one in 2022 Three in 2023 and eight in 2024. Two of those, of the eight were to the homeless population here in Ventura. A huge part of the calls that the fire department goes to fires are...
Thank you Mr. Mendoza thanks. Okay all right is there be okay with consent and then taking a short break? All right okay I have one small correction to the consent calendar. It's very short, it's item H and I believe it's simply a typo that's all but if you look at the paragraph on item H, the last line where it says July 22nd 2025 and August 12th 2025 for summer and December 23rd 2025 and January 13th 2026 for winter. No big deal? But you'll see that as it follows through in the document that it's 25 where it should be 26. No big deal we all get it.
Anything else? Yes. It's just saying when our breaks are going to be, and it was just the mistake that you make when the year changes and you do your checks wrong. Just like that.
So I did want I know this long break that we just are coming off of, in some ways it was a nice relief and break but in other ways there were things that happened. So I think I would personally prefer that we – when – I really want to take these breaks, you know. But I think these breaks could be a one-month break as opposed to a six-week break. And so my suggestion, if there's any support for it would be that we break the week of July 22 2025 and we break the week of December 23 2025.
And I mean, I'd be happy to revisit extending those breaks after we see how well we do about, you know, chewing through some of our calendars. But that would be my proposal. I don't know if I have any support for
that. I support that. I second that. Is your suggestion then to say something like January 6th instead of the 13th? Or what do you mean specifically?
My thought would be that our summer break would be canceling the July 22, 2025 meeting and our winter break would be cancelling the December 23, 2025 meeting and deleting the August 12 and January 13 vacations.
1:34 – 1:5431 turns
And I'm hearing you say we can certainly revisit this as time goes on, if we're doing great.
Right. I think our city manager will let us know that we have to do it in a timely fashion and say... Of course. If we're looking at July, by April we should be deciding if we're going to or August you know somewhere on April or May. We should be deciding whether we're gonna take that bonus two weeks or not and so that would be my suggestion. Is that acceptable to you Mr. Harvey?
Yes of course. Okay
any thoughts?
So are you saying that for a good behavior, we could get better? Yeah. Well
I think getting things
done would
be... I'm joking. But if we're not getting things done,
I
don't like the idea of taking six
weeks off. I agree with that. It has felt like a really long break and it's been enjoyable in a lot of ways. I've caught up with a lot of work and a lot of meetings preparation for the year but I would be in agreement with that.
So, should we do a motion or how do we move
forward? You suggested you moved to strike the July 22nd.
The August 12th and the January 13th vacation dates would stay on calendar but subject to review 90 days before those dates come
up. Motion understood. Mayor Pro Tem Lange
Yes.
Council Member Rule?
Yes.
Council Member Mang? Yes. Mayor Gilman? Yes, Council Member Whitman? Yes. Motion passes. Wonderful.
And so mayor with that we would need a vote on the rest of the consent calendar. That took care of item H. We would need items A through J. Thank you very much
I'll make a motion to approve uh the consent calendar items the rest of the consent calendar items
I'll second. Thank you. Mr. Montgomery? Yes, Mayor. Mayor Gilman? Yes. Council Member Whitman? Yes. Mayor Pro Tem Lang?
Yes
Council Member Rule?
Yes
Council Member Mang?
Yes
Motion passes
But I did want to make one comment about consent calendar item G. Very excited, given all the power outages, very excited that we are going to have power walls set up and that our city buildings will be able to operate in the event of an outage. So thank you very much to our staff.
Sure real quick all except for Sarzadi Park which will bring back to you as a proposed capital improvement in the next fiscal year.
Thank you so much We'll take a 10-minute break and come back at 5 till 8. Thank you all for your patience. Thanks, guys. I really appreciate the stick-to-itiveness. Welcome back everyone! We're back in session. If everyone could have a seat? Thanks y'all.
1:54 – 2:0385 turns
All right
let's cancel socializing people. I
banged
it
already!
I just, a new gavel. I'm trying it out. Okay here we go. We are on item two, selection of council representatives to local county and regional boards. Do we have a staff mentioned first before we go through the list?
Yes, Mr. Montgomery might have a brief mention he'd like to make. Thank you very
much. Yes Mayor City Council I did prepare this item. This is our annual assignments to regional boards and committees there are 14 in total that staff is requesting that the mayor and and I go through and get council approval. There are four Ojai Valley based boards there are ten county and regional and there's one city of Ojai committee on this list which is the Audit and Budget Committee So staff is requesting that through the mayor, we go through the loan attachment there and identify a representative and alternate.
Some have two alternates. We'll go through the list and maybe make one motion. And if we need to divvy it up, we may. Mr. City Manager?
Yes sir. I do believe we'd need to add the water litigation representation on... What are we calling it, Mr. Mayor?
It's Council Representatives to the Water Litigation Mediation.
Because that's
not on the- I think yeah, that should be covered and under the agenda item boards and commission representatives. It just didn't get listed in the staff report.
And forgive me, that is something I missed so... Not
a
problem.
And also through the mayor, would this be a time when if we identified another need within the community for a liaison? Would this be the time to propose that?
Yeah, I'd be comfortable with that.
Okay.
I love that. What do you
think? Well, so I would like for us to have a chamber liaison. We've had a number of businesses leave town and I think we... I would like for us to have a presence at the chamber to see how we can support local business owners.
I second that. I love that idea.
Okay. Thank you. And I would be happy to volunteer for that position.
Now, as far as form goes, do we need to vote on each person going in? I would recommend we go through the list
and make one motion after
so. And then how are you noting like, for example,
just now you got it will be described wonderful. I would like to thank you. On this requested chamber liaison, we have one representative. Let's assign an alternate. I'm happy to do that. Unless you guys don't want me to,
you know. OK. All
right. Great. Next in order mayor? Yes. Let's identify the water litigation at the time of writing this report. I was under the impression that was a closed session discussion
item.
So let's take care of that now.
Let's do that. I had volunteered. I would like to volunteer myself to be the liaison there or the representative with unless someone objects and an alternate. Got it. Thanks. Now we'll be at the start of our attachment here- Thank you, so I'm at, and please confirm if I am off Ojai Basin Groundwater Management Services
Agency Board? I would like to jump in... The first one on my list I see is the Ventura County Air Pollution Control
Board. No, you're right because I went, I jumped on pages. Sorry, you're right. The Ventura County Air Pollution Control Board currently it's Mr. Whitman
And, understood. And that one I did reach out to them last year they do not assign alternates. That's the only one on the list that doesn't. Wonderful. Yes, that's their policy. All good?
Yay! Okay then the California Joint Powers Insurance Authority it was formerly the mayor. Oh it's mayor specific so that's me easy mm-hmm Then we had the Clean Power Alliance. I did hear from the alternate, Michelle Ellison. She is willing to continue in the role.
And I would like to be the representative working with Michelle.
Love it.
Yes, and I'm willing to I'm sorry mm-hmm. I'm willing to be the alternate to Rachel on that
committee. I love it Second that Any objections great? Okay, you got that mr. Montgomery yes, okay And now I'm on City Selection Committee of Ventura County that me easy Then, Ventura County Animal Services Commission Board. It was formerly Councilmember Francina and then the alternate was Member Rule. Who is that? You'll take it. I'll take that for sure. Wonderful!
And then anybody interested in an alternate? Oh, you bring them all home so it's like a job occupational hazard. The time is difficult for me on that one.
It conflicts with my other one of the other boards that I would be on.
Leslie, how good are you at? Like, would it be a lot of people who could do a lot of those?
Yeah, I'm fine doing... I'll commit to them for sure. No problem. No problem.
Got it. Thank you, Ms. Rule. Thank you. Thank you, Ms Mang. Wonderful. Economic Development Collaborative of Ventura County currently, Ms. Lang and then we had Council Member Francina Formally.
I'll take that one just simply because I'm working deeply with the broadband and I think that they go hand in hand.
Wonderful
And I'll be the alternate, although I'd love... Oh yeah.
Okay, okay great! Are you interested in staying? Good, I'm glad because I want to stay! I love this board! This is your thing, I would never do that. Perfect, thank you. I was willing as a team player but yeah, I do love that board. Cool, thank you.
Thanks Ms. Lang. Could I ask for clarity? Who will be the main representative?
So I'll be the main and then Council Member Rule will be there. Thank you.
Thanks for asking. And then Ojai Basin Groundwater Management Agency. Currently, Mr. Whitman, do you want to continue with that?
I do.
And I would like to be the alternate there unless somebody wants to. Yes. OK. Moving on Gold Coast Transit District Board currently Ms. Lang and then Ms. Rule is the alternate.
I will stay on that board. I'd
like that
board.
And and I'm happy to remain as the alternate.
Thank you so much. And then the Southern California Association of Governments, it was the former mayor and then the alternate was Ms. Lang.
I can, I can do that.
OK,
Skagg, I could take Skagg because I got VCOG. You know, I got the cogs
you. OK, wait. So I'm
sorry. Yes, I will be the representative
for that. You're the representative right now for the VCOG, but you're going to do also the Skag?
Yeah. Unless Council Member Lang would like to.
Yep.
OK. It's once a year.
And then Ms. Lang, would you willing to be the alternate still or would you like to take that off?
I'll be the alternate, but Council Member Mang, if you want to step in on anything. Okay, I'll be the alternate for that.
Would you like to be the alternate for the VCOG next? That's four to six times per year, second Thursdays at 5 p.m.?
I've never missed a meeting. Oh,
wonderful! So it's
like, you can say yes and it's not going to cost you a dime. It's nothing. Yeah, no, it's good.
I know you do.
Got it. Yes, I can do that.
Thank you Mr. Montgomery. Are we all good so far? You're 100% okay wonderful moving on Ventura County Transportation Commission Board currently we had member former member Francina and the alternate was Ms. Rule
I if nobody else wants it, since I'm doing Gold Coast and these two work so closely together. I would be happy to do that unless somebody really, really wants it. No,
that makes perfect sense. OK?
OK.
And I'm happy to remain the alternate.
Thank you so much.
OK, great.
Wonderful. Ventura Regional Sanitation District Board currently Mr. Whitman with the alternate as Ms. Lang
I'm happy to continue that if that's what people want. How are you feeling?
If there could be another alternate, that would be great.
The time is terrible for me, but I would do it in a pinch. How good are you at attending?
2:03 – 2:1449 turns
It's actually a really interesting one. Is it? Yeah, I was bummed that we didn't come back to you.
That works. I'm fine with that. Thank you, Ms Mang.
Moving on, Ojai Valley Sanitary District currently the liaison is Council Member Rule and then the alternate was former Mayor Sticks. How are you feeling about that?
I'm fine with that.
I am happy to be the alternate. OK. Oh, everybody's going to want this one. Ojai Valley Green Coalition. Currently it's Ms. Rule and then we had former member Francina as the second. I do go to most of their Saturday meetings. I would be happy to go to this as the alternate. But how are you feeling about continuing as a liaison?
Oh yeah, no, that's
my
thing. The Green
Coalition?
Yeah. No, I'm good with staying as their liaison just simply because I have history.
Yes. And I'll be the alternate unless somebody else wants me. So exciting. Ojai Unified School District, I would offer to be the liaison since I meet with them regularly already.
I think you should be
so I support that. Cool and then alternate anyone?
I'll be the alternate.
Wonderful. And then City of Ojai Audit Budget Committee, I believe I have to be on it correct?
Yes
And I would like to be on that as well, please.
Yeah.
I'll
hand over my... Yes, I'm doing a lot of other things so go ahead
So do we want to take additional appointees, do this at this time? How do we want to proceed with that? I know that Mr. Johnson has indicated he does not wish to continue
that. Yes. I think we should have a member of the public on that committee and maybe we should send out word that we need applicants. I know there were two people who I thought were going to apply but they fell out.
What would be the process for
soliciting applications? Typically, the clerk's office would put out a notice. We're inviting applications for the Budget Audit Committee public member slot. We'd have a defined application form similar to commission applications and then return to the council with applications. That would be
wonderful. Are there any pending
now West? No applications on file.
Although I've heard from two people that they're interested so they will probably fill out the applications.
Hearing that, the City Clerk's Office will prepare materials.
Thank you.
Defer to the Mayor. Thank you very much for all your willingness.
Council?
Do I have a motion to approve all of the appointments? I'll make a
motion to approve.
Yes, wonderful.
I'll second it.
Great.
Roll-call vote Passed 5–0 Motion and second. Roll call.
Show transcript
Motion passes. Thank you very much
Okay, we have moved things around a little bit. By my reckoning, we are now at our former Item 8, Well Permit Application Approval for 300 Longhorn Lane.
Mr. Mayor, I have a brief staff report in lieu of Ms. Palmer who is attending to public works needs. This is an application for a well permit for a residential domestic water supply well at 300 Longhorn Lane. It is not to increase or facilitate development. The situation on the ground is that the residents that exist now accessed water through a well that was shared with an adjoining property The adjoining property was sold, and thus the property owner at 300 Longhorn Lane needs to sink a new well.
But the intent is not to increase the draw from the watershed or the draw from the basin rather it is to maintain the same draw but now with his own well. The OBGMA as I understand has already approved it but under our current code a requirement is also necessary from the city And I also should add the county has also approved it so far, both are pending this approval under the current codes. It also requires a city approval for any well.
The applicant has met all of the applicable requirements of the City, of OBGMA and of the County. I would also note that some have asked, well if OBGMA is regulating these and the county's regulating these then why is a city a third regulatory agency? And the answer is it's a quirk of history. There was a time before OBGMA was installed by special statute and before the county took over full control when the city regulated wells independently. Staff will be bringing forward as a separate future recommended agenda item to evaluate whether it makes sense to maintain a third city regulatory regime when we have two other agencies independently regulating well permits. But that's not tonight, so right now we have a system in place that has requirements for a well permit and the applicant has met all the requirements.
So staff would recommend approval after any questions or public comments of course. Thank you very much. Any questions for staff?
Yeah, well I am concerned about that overlap and potential conflict in jurisdiction. And I know we don't need to resolve that for tonight's item but I would like to see you know maybe a report about whether that's a role That we should surrender. I'm not saying that I'm favoring surrender, I just want to see what the legal issues are and whether we should be involved when OBGMA is going to be doing the exact same thing.
And has a special statute that it operates under. Yeah, that's what staff will bring back and we did speak with the applicant and said well we're planning that larger discussion do you want to wait? They said no their intent is to maintain their water supply thus move this forward now and then obviously the larger policy conversation will come at a future meeting. Thank you.
I do have a question though and this comes out of my role on OBGMA and that is that in The process at OB-GMA is if a well applicant is going to be pumping two acre feet or less, it goes through kind of a very slimmery view and if you go through a If the belt well is going to be more, then there's a requirement under state law that you assess the reasonableness of the use.
And I saw on the application that they're projecting three acre foot usage and I would be much happier if this was for Two acre and less so that it's going through that default. My understanding is that one acre feet serves at least two residences, if not more. And I don't know that we have an huge issue currently with our Groundwater supply, but I would like to make sure that we...
So has the applicant said why there would be a three-acre foot demand or?
I'm not sure if the applicant's provided details on the three acre foot demand. But it can state that OBGMA has reviewed it through that hire process and concluded that it will not impact the groundwater sustainability. And they concluded that it is consistent with the groundwater sustainability plan even at the three acre feet. But I'm not sure the details of why they're estimating three acre feet as opposed to a lower amount. It may be a function of how much landscaping is on the site.
Excuse me, but it also there's a place where it says there will be no new net extraction from the Ojai Basin due to the planned well. So it may be that the shared well was pulling or had a permit to pull six and they just split it in half. I'm not sure, but I did manage to pull out that.
Thank you. Yeah, that is my understanding. I'm not sure exactly the size of the larger well, but the intent is to maintain the net pull from the basin. So that's a prior concern
possibly that you're having Mr. Whitman about about the use? Yeah. OK, but as you say, Mr. Summers, the OBGMA has vetted this already and they've approved it. Correction. OK. Any other questions from staff You have a motion to approve the public comments. Oh, there's I don't have any public comments. Do you have any?
There are no raised hands on Zoom, but let's identify that this is a public hearing.
Yes.
And we've now opened the public comment period for our hearing. Thank you. There are no public comment cards inside. Let's we have many zoom participants in participants. We are on regularly noticed item eight for our public hearing and will take a moment to accept raise hands now if possible. Last call and no raise hands, Mayor. Thank you very much.
2:14 – 2:2117 turns
Do we need a motion? Please. Okay I'll make a motion to approve the well permit.
I second. Any discussion? No. Okay
Roll-call vote Passed 5–0 motion to approve the well permit. I second. Any discussion? No. Okay roll please Mr. Montgomery. Roll call.
Show transcript
Motion passes Thank you
very much Moving on to former item 9 our new number 2 continued from the November 12 2024 City Council meeting All right We gotta make sure all the name placards are correct Staff report, please.
My name is Maura Macaluso and I'm the Principal Planner, Community Development Department. And this item is an appeal of a Planning Commission decision that was discussed and continued from the November 12th City Council meeting. The appeal is regarding a Planning Commission decision to approve a design review permit and a conditional use permit That includes off-site parking over at 1216 East Ojai Avenue. The project is for outdoor events located at the Capri Hotel, which is at 1180 East Ojai Avenue.
The City Council continued the appeal for 90 days in order for staff to meet and confer with the applicant including—I'm sorry, the appellant. and surrounding community members, and the project applicant in a joint effort to understand what the issues are regarding the appeal and to try to work towards a common solution. On November 21st staff met with the appellant and another member of the surrounding community and the applicant to discuss the project details specifically revolving around the outdoor event operations and their impacts on the surrounding The focus of the meeting was to first identify what the issues were and second, to identify if there were any solutions.
The issues identified by the appellant included the number of events, the noise associated with the events and off-site parking to accommodate these outdoor events. The appellant believed that the number of events to be too frequent and requested that the number be reduced. The appellant also identified concerns regarding the overflow parking site and potential overflow parking into the surrounding neighborhood.
So the result of the meeting was a relieved understanding by the appellant and the resident that attended because the Planning Commission approval was for fewer events than was originally initiated in the request. The conditions approved by the Planning Commission were crafted to actually limit the number of events, as well as limit the number of attendees and also the hours.
So after the meeting, the appellant and the residents, it's the Golden West community, Let's see, so after the meeting we had two additional conditions and they're in your packet. And they are in your packet number, Conditions of Approval Number 10 and 11. Number 10 provides an additional layer of oversight. The condition requires that an event coordinator coordinate parking such that the front portion of the overflow parking be filled first And the rear, which is to the north, adjacent to the wall to the residence. And then condition number 11 provides an additional requirement for the applicant to monitor the parking impacts that would be in the neighborhood and it also requires that a member of the hotel staff drive through the Golden West Neighborhood to identify any immediate overflow or the overflow parking into the neighborhoods for the first event.
The meeting concluded with a unified understanding of acceptance and comfort that staff would return to the City Council with the recommendation that the council uphold the Planning Commission's determination. With these added conditions, and also the understanding that the events were revised, and that is what is in your packet. So if you have any questions, I'm...I have the answers.
Wow! Thank you for that and any questions from staff?
Yes, I have a quick question. I was told that, I don't know when it happened but that the city was given money from the general fund to have a tourism study done
That's
true. Where is that process right now? Where are we at and should that
be... It's not a tourism study per se, this is actually part of our general plan update and we do have our director who made the mistake of sitting in the front row if you'd like to hear some details about
that. So one of the pieces is referred to as a tourist management component, but it's the economic diversification element. That's what we're working on right now. You will be seeing at a future agenda the creation of a focus group for lack of a better term. And the individuals that will be a part of that. That's going to be the first step. We're already in kind of the deliberation portion, the discovery portion of understanding the information that we need and deciphering that information and then presenting that to this focus group. So the focus group piece is going to be at a very important piece because we're kind of in the beginning stages here entered into an agreement
with some sort of a timeframe
Well, this will be coming back to City Council in the next month. The focus group piece.
But we're a ways from consideration of an approval of a tourism element of the general plan. Because I'm just
concerned is this, I know when I watched the planning meeting before then if this goes through then they want to work on the Hummingbird that would be next because they wanted both at the same time right?
Yeah they've been
separated out. So my concern is okay so if you go ahead and approve this then what you know how long till the Hummingbird decides okay we want this
2:21 – 2:2717 turns
It would be the same process as we're going through now, which would be the Planning Commission would hear it and then we could bring it up if we wanted to hear it. The approval of this would not necessitate the approval of that.
So,
I'm sorry. Are you finished with your thought? Yeah.
Okay. It occurred to me that we—I would like to see us be consistent with projects and how we address a use that's primarily for Well, motels are kind of in the focus group here. And we have another item on tonight which is the Ojai Valley Inn. I'm actually very interested in having that item The item we're talking about which
is... I could jump in one at a time, right? We've called this item. We haven't called another item
yet. I know but my thought is that we should have continuity and we should treat different applicants with the same Thank you.
So the one project that's the future item is a restaurant space adding, adjusting a restaurant space. This is a hotel adjusting a hotel space. Zoning is different. The components of the projects are different. The council could choose to look at all of them holistically but that's a third agenda item that's not even on the agenda tonight. And I'm raising
that not because I would like to have the analysis of this consulting firm and this focus group in terms How we address events along the Ojai Avenue corridor.
I had another question. So if I remember correctly, either from reading or from watching the Planning Commission meeting, this, the CPU... The CUP, thank you. Oh my gosh! It's a long week. Doesn't it have an a review process every Yes, Ms. Macaluso.
So having a review is something that the Planning Commission can put in there or not, and I believe that this one does have a one-year review. And also, I would like to add that it's a conditional use permit. It's not allowed by right, it's allowed conditionally. And so, you know, the Planning Commission of course can call it up where staff can recommend it be at any time.
I think an additional question following on that would be something like when things do go awry in the neighborhood, we hear about that pretty quickly. And so I remember the same organization but at the Rancho, I saw the applicant at the time make adjustments when they heard from the community. So I'm assuming if the same thing were to happen here,
Absolutely, and so they're not just going to hear from the community. They're going to hear from the Community Development Department.
And just from your experience would I be correct in saying that the applicant is really willing to work with the community and work with us, work with you all?
Work with community, work with staff, work on the conditions and revise the conditions. As you know they, I believe you know that the conditions or you do of course, the numbers of events were revised and the applicant was more than willing to do that. Great thank you.
Now, if I recall, I did attend the Planning Commission meeting when they were proposing and that even at that moment they said it sounded, I'm speculating now, they used a bit of a template from the Rancho that needed to be adjusted so it was not as impactful as it turned out to be.
Right, and something that I would like to note regarding that every site is looked at on its own merit. It's location, it's what are they requesting? Where is it and what is it? They're all very different and they're all unique and they're all reviewed individually, evaluated individually.
And Ms. Thibault, you might respond to this or anyone what I've noticed in the Planning Commission when they look at these sites they are attempting to treat everybody very consistently so I hear that quite often is they want to make sure that if it's an event space that decibel readings are taken and known and all that kind of stuff so if I heard you correctly what you were asking for tell me if I'm wrong You're asking, is there some kind of holistic study around tourism that would influence these decisions prior to approving a project? That's what I thought I heard you say.
2:27 – 2:3224 turns
Yeah, so just following up when we're talking about this particular applicant being very willing to work with community concerns. Are we able to as a city or as the department tell that person once they have the permit Hey, we want to talk to you now about conditions because it's not working as smoothly. Or is it only if they volunteer to do that?
Oh, absolutely. They don't have to come to us.
With the appropriate hearings and findings, yes, we can modify the permits if the findings can be made. If there's a problem, we impose a certain set of conditions up front. We go through. We experience the operations. There is a problem, significant problem. Yeah, we can go back and modify the conditions. And their choice at that point is accept the modified conditions or litigate.
And in the fact that we've given this permit And now we're saying, hey it's not working out. We're not like hurt in that process by the fact that we issued the permit.
No as long as we have the findings to explain why the conditions being imposed did not solve the problems or created other problems and I would confirm condition number 30 on page 11 of attachment A also page 915 is the one-year review.
And then real quick, I spoke with Mr. Harvey and you about we corrected page the item two under 28 number two with the girl math.
I
think it was funny math as well. Is that page
9 of 14 or where are we at? Yeah, okay right
here. I think Mara can probably speak to that one. I think we, Mara and I kind of sat down and really kind of studied that specific condition. Okay. She has some clarifications she'd like to provide.
Perfect. I do have some clarification so we're talking about 26 II is that correct? 28. 28 II. Thank you. Yes, what I'd like to do is read a revised condition after really digging into it as Lucas just said and coming up with some clarification. It's really very minor change just in a little bit of language. And it's regarding the monthly events. So monthly events including live music, food trucks, pop-up dinners and guided meditation are allowed between 8 a.m. to 10 p.m., Monday through Saturday and 8 a .m. to 9 p. m. on Sundays up to six events within a calendar year for which the occupancy shall not exceed 100 patrons each, period.
Eliminate the next sentence and then end with a temporary use permit may be requested for additional monthly events over the six approved through this permit. The change in language here simplifies this condition for the people who actually wrote it and understand it, and then for future generations of planners who didn't write it and didn't know the intent behind it. So I think it simplifies it and is just very straightforward now.
So if it's approved with that one line struck? The one you just mentioned?
Yes. OK, and however you could also underline the words after up to six months after up to six monthly events and then underline within a calendar year again that clarifies that.
And the key component is despite the name monthly, it's only six per year. Correct? Yeah. Not 12. Understood. Correct.
One more question. Do we have a decibel limit that we impose on events?
The decibel limit is the code. The municipal code has decibel limits, and that's the decibel limit that the applicant is required to maintain. I believe
that's
here. It's also in Condition 25 on the
prior page? Correct. Thank you. Yes, it's included however it is.
And it's the same one that is on our pages 9 of 36 under Attachment A or the bottom 913 The decibel levels are there. And that's, correct me if I'm wrong, those are the ones that are applied citywide?
Yes.
Correct. Okay.
Just for clarification. Thank you.
Any more questions? So then I would like to open up to the public comments. I have two right now. Bill Miley and then Larry Stengel.
2:32 – 2:4640 turns
Hello. Motels seem to be turning into entertainment centers. Unless information is provided showing that their guest numbers for overnight stays is dwindling, it appears the reason for such permits is to increase their gross revenue and at what cost they benefit to the community. Condition number 11 does not seem enforceable I will let a Capri employee, when driving around the adjacent neighborhood, identify Capri motel guest vehicles. They won't.
It can't be enforced unless maybe a glue sticker is put on the vehicle by the Capri check-in. In my opinion this is unenforceable and faulty. What is enforceable, and currently not a condition of the contract, is the measurement of sound noise at the property lines of the motel and the adjacent residences. Decibels are measured at the property line. For residential measures in sound limits it's the south property line adjoining the motel line. It can be no higher than 55 decibels during the day and 45 at night.
And inside the resident can be no higher than 45, and that's pretty quiet. Here is the key to enforcement. In the past it has been through complaints but over the past several years it has changed. Libby Bowl I understand has a sound decibel recording meter requirement during the events. They're not very expensive I know of a sound decibel meter, what they call a logger, which will cost less than $400. It will record 24 hours a day for up to a week on its internal battery plus a small portable battery. It gets connected to a PC computer for programming.
This is the way to measure the sound levels and determine compliance. It avoids I say, you say, they say. What exists or will exist is recorded sound levels by decibel meter during the day and night and time measurements on a graphic chart in a printout You put them in a secure box, high enough so nobody can disturb it. And you have your compliance data for reporting and analysis. In my opinion sound turning into noise is the key issue here.
Second is light pollution coming from the residential into the residential area and that needs enforcement also. Thanks.
Thank you Mr. Miley. Larry Stangold
Larry Steingold, I support the usage as long as they can have the automatic wireless sound sensors which I'm sure Kenny will accept as a condition tonight. The parking issue, I have friends in the neighborhood. I guarantee you that you will hear about parking and lights and sounds almost immediately if not sooner. And this is no different than the Rancho. It's the same thing. It'll be inspected. You'll have one year and then keep it going if that's what they require because you can change it Okay, I mean the rancho is one year until it gets sold and then they're on trial again. The new owner but with this one you can add oh we can do it every year.
It's not a big deal that yes they want to make money. I mean and then you want to tie it to look into the other one sure I mean why not? I mean because we have these facilities that's what they want to do that's what generates income If it's more of a pain, get another tax on it. Okay? But that'll drive it. But they'll make sure that there's no problem. Otherwise you'll shut them down.
It's a very simple process.
Thank you. Thank you Mr. Steingold. Mr. Doherty I wanted to ask if you would fill out a card but please come up here. Thank you. Not at all. That's okay, it all just
forms. We
heard a description of some reconciliation or some dialogue and how are you feeling about what's proposed here
tonight? I feel great about it. I know Kenny is someone that definitely is community focused like she's not trying to Thank you. They did, they reduced everything. They talked about what that parking was actually going to be. She talked about where that parking was going to be, talked about you know what they're actually gonna be doing and with engagement parties and things like that it's not, if they don't have electronic dance music and there's lights everywhere I think that's more the focus of what she's doing We were concerned about some shuttles moving through town.
She just said, look if there's something like that going on give me a call. I have her number. I can call her up and say this is what's going
on.
As far as what you were talking about, that's the one thing of am I gonna have to... Can I come to you guys and say hey, I've talked to the community they're unhappy about X? Can we revisit this CUP or am I gonna have to come up with Hey, here's video. Here are written statements from 100 people or is this something that we can actually come up and just discuss?
Absolutely.
You know that would be a big question I think it'd be good for the community but I think what Kenny is doing I think it's totally reasonable and you know I respect the way she's treated this whole process.
Thank you very much. I appreciate that thanks thanks for being here Any online comments? No raised hands, Mayor. Okay so discussion yes
please. Yes I'd like to go ahead and put a motion on the table and then we can continue the discussion but you know I just appreciate hearing from the community that there is a resolution I really appreciate everything that Kenny and the owners have done to accommodate the neighbors, so I'd like to go ahead and put a motion on the table to consider the adoption of the resolution.
To adopt the resolution upholding the Planning Commission's August 7, 2024 decision to approve the request for the Design Review Permit and the Conditional Use Permit, the CUP.
I second. And if I can make one or two comments quickly about the seconding. At the Planning Commission we heard talking about the Rancho but extending to this it was there are events that are Thank you all for joining us. We need to understand our traffic well and manage it well, and our tourism well. And that's a longer thing that all of us are interested in and that's going to take some surveying and working with partners. I'm very eager to know more because there are things we don't know right now.
Any more discussion?
Yes. Yeah, so I'm happy that the appellant had a good process with what occurred. I do have a question. I actually like the idea that when we And we grant an events permit that we require the permittee to have the type of sound measuring device. And I don't, but I know nothing about what that equipment is. Thank you Bill for describing it but I want to rely on our staff.
Is that something that we've ever done or is that something that's easily done? Ask for any of these like, you know, events where someone gets six or eight events a year where they're required for maintaining a machine so that if somebody shows up they can look at the machine and say you're over the decibel limits.
So we have had a project that they were required through their conditional use permit to have a sound device. And aside from that, if there's a sound issue at night or during an event then code compliance gets out there and takes a measurement per the code and knows it right then and there. The answer to your question is yes.
Yes. Okay, so but I think what you just described is code compliance as the equipment?
Yes.
And is code compliance available for that 9 o'clock call when you're too loud?
We
have
a certain amount of code compliance if needed after hours in partnership with the Sheriff's Department, particularly for a loud event situation. That sometimes has been a sheriff's call. In the past, in both code enforcement and sheriffs are equipped with decibel readers. Certainly we need to add a condition requiring the applicant to maintain a decibel reader and provide the city a regular report of, for lack of a better word, the log of the figures that could be added as a sub-element to Condition Number 25.
I'd
ask for that as a friendly amendment to the motion. I just
want to make one suggestion which is, I wouldn't want to treat this project differently than the other spaces that we have in town so if we were going to do something like that it seems to me we would be more sweeping and say this is our general approach to events in town
And one comment if I may jump in on that, Mayor, is for things that already have vested rights and existing land use permits we can take a look at how we could impose that as a regulatory measure on those operating businesses. But right now all we could do would be condition this project. Modifying the requirements of those other operating businesses is something we can take a look at but it would have to be that larger discussion. I totally hear
what you're saying.
I'm just
interested in being consistent with all of those venues. See, it seems to me that our community is actually one of the best decibel readers which is that they call the department right away.
The one project that I've experienced where they've been conditioned to have a sound meter on the property was because of complaints. It hasn't been something that we've put into the conditions initially.
I'm just curious with that meter, is it something where it's like always recorded so then if there was a complaint the neighbor calls at nine o'clock and say the sheriff can't get there till late. Can you go to the property and look back on
it? It can be. Some of them are recorded, yeah. Okay. And then there are alerts that come in too.
But that would require that the person putting on the event have the equipment working as opposed to code enforcement showing up after that.
Correct?
One is that there's a device on site, and the other is there's a call of complaint.
Yeah. And just to add onto this, Mara was speaking about a specific project... Also not on tonight's agenda. Not on tonight's agenda. I'm not going to talk about where it is, but I am gonna say from a processing standpoint, it was something that we came up as a solution because we had started just chasing our tail in terms of solutions. And this was the one solution that we were able to monitor outside the hours of past 5, 6 o'clock at night where the monitoring was there 24 hours a day.
The other thing is worth, the same as you jump in too but we can respond to complaints as they arise. I have full confidence that the community will tell us if there's a problem at this site even without a permanent monitor and then if there is a problem that can be revisited. Mr. Harvey?
Right just to say this is the epitome of the type of thing that you could come back for if there is an issue. I would say you don't need to legislate for a problem you're anticipating having at this point.
Right. And the one that we're speaking about, but I'm not going to name an area, but it was an ongoing issue and that was one of the solutions they came out
with. So that's a situation where we have a couple of events and we get numerous complaints. We can go back to the permittee and say you got to acquire this equipment and start monitoring your events.
Yeah, there was a bit of research that staff had done to come up with that as solution.
2:46 – 2:5217 turns
Any more discussion? I'll withdraw that amendment. Okay. So we have a motion and a second and I'm hearing no more discussion so roll call please.
Could I please request a clarifying question? I thought I saw some consensus for the language modification in that Section 28-II. Is that included? That was my intention,
yes. And second to
Roll-call vote Passed 5–0
Show transcript
Motion passes. Okay
Thank you for being here All right Thank you very much for the detailed report Okay so number three, formerly number seven. Our new number three was a request from Council Member Rule and then Member Mang. Mang has pulled out of that I've suggested that but so it is the appeal to talk about whether or not to appeal the Planning Commission decision. Council Member Lang, I'll start there what were you thinking?
Council Member Rule is happy to answer.
Oh, Rule, sorry! No, no, no, I'm like... My mistake.
Yeah, so to me, I was at the Planning Commission meeting for this project. This project came in almost complete and you know, so there was a... The first meeting was four hours then there was a month break and then it came back for another two hours and I had some questions because This is a huge project that is going to impact the look and feel of Ojai, of Ojiav, of when people first come in.
So I wanted to bring this up for the not because I support an appeal, but because I want the council to discuss it and actually grapple with the issues. And my issue specifically were I'll start with traffic The report said that there would be a net increase of half of a car. And the reason they were able to do that is because they are going to have a retail facility and they could actually, because the standard is now vehicle miles traveled, they could actually say where a retail business and so we can, we will be taking vehicle miles from trips that people would take downtown to other wine shops basically. So that is how they were able to actually... And this is the standard. It's not that they didn't use the standard. They used the standard but anyone who knows that knows that the vehicle miles traveled to get there is not going to be a half a car So, I wanted us to talk about that and the traffic of people who have come to a space to drink heading back out on Ojai Avenue could be a considerable number of cars.
It was suggested that they enter in through Country Club but that didn't really go anywhere so The traffic on Ojai Ave, I want us to think about. We're now having almost an accident a day between 150 and 33 to Casitas. And what I foresee is this event—and we don't really know how many people would be at an event like this. There were not nearly the conditions placed on this particular project as there have been on, for instance, you can have this number of events with this number of people It was a much more open kind of discussion and I would like to know how many cars we actually think are going to be coming out of that parking lot trying to go right and left on Ojai Ave after having a very nice drink, you know? A very nice glass of wine.
So my concern for traffic is twofold as I said. Positing that it's going to be a half-a-car increase, I think is... I understand the standard is true but I just don't believe it. And then I have concerns about people making left and right turns onto Ojai Avenue in, you know, a fair number of cars leaving at the same time. Maybe they leave at the same time maybe they don't but events start and end at about the same time so that's one of my concerns.
You look like you want to jump in.
Yeah, I just want to make sure we're all clear that this discussion tonight is about whether or not we want to have that discussion so I don't want to go
down too far of a path. Okay yeah no well I want to make a point on why I think we need to have the discussion that there are deep issues here. You can
summarize it
by saying
there's a lot of questions.
There's a lot of questions easement on the bike path. I think we need to really discuss them because they're major They've been given an easement to cross the bike path. Is that something that we want to do for a private entity? We don't generally do that, but this is an unusual situation. You know they want to put a golf course- a golf cart across the bike path. Is that something that we want to support? We need to talk about that.
Once again, the tourism for me, you know this is a winery that has been characterized as a Napa Valley sort of knockoff of a winery and to the point of tourism is that the kind of tourism that we are looking to move forward? We have a tourism management call it what you will. It's basically to re-envision how we think about tourism. I do want to say just generally,
what we're talking about is the benefit to the community versus
the
impact.
2:53 – 2:5913 turns
This is a huge project, and the Council should weigh in on a community perspective, not just a planning perspective. And finally, they also own Bocoup. So I mean that space there. So if you're thinking about forward-thinking planning, that's a very large strip of land, and I just want the Council to think about it before we move forward on such a massive project.
So that is why I called Kim Mang and asked her, Council Member Mang to please second this for me.
Thank you very much. Is there anything from the staff that we would need to hear? Yes please go
ahead. It's just a few words which is as discussed under the special section of the governor call for review by the council of a planning commission decision. The only decision tonight is is the matter worthy of review by the council or not. If the council votes majority that is to consider the matter, then it would be set for a future public hearing for the full discussion. If not, then it would not and there's still another day or two for an individual appeal if any individual may choose to do so as
well. I have one public comment and there may be some online but I have William Wyrick.
Good evening. For all the reasons and more that we just heard, I urge the majority vote, maybe an unanimous vote for you to sit as a body to consider this entire project. It's important to act as a body then none of you have to recuse from being part of the deliberation and the consideration. I want to remind everyone that if you act as a whole, you have full power and authority to sustain, reject or overrule wholly or partly the decision from which the appeal is taken. That's Code 1-4.05C.
Reasons I think it's really important that this be looked at as a whole from the community basis. One, it was presented as a minor amendment to a CUP. When the original CUP was specifically accepted, it would not be a design event center when it was originally built. That was a discussion of the Planning Commission at the time. Number two, the aesthetic precedent that they want to take with the farmhouse or what other people call the industrial barn That was a close call for that to be approved specifically because it couldn't be seen from any public right-of-way.
There was a lot of objections to the aesthetic of the farmhouse industrial bone motif. Now, the precedent is being suggested that it'd be set as an aesthetic precedent for Ojai Avenue. It's an axiom of good planning and development that when a party owns a parcel that's part of a larger parcel, it was just mentioned basically controlling most of the land from Country Club all the way to Rotary Park except for the one retail, that you don't approve piecemeal development without a master plan.
This is piecemeal development. It's the definition of piecemeal development I don't understand there's you know, for example, there is something that seemed to have been ignored in the discussion Our code says in article 14 parking and loading standards 10-2.1409 Driveways providing side access shall be from an improved street alley etc 1 when a property has access to more than one street access shall be generally limited to the lowest volume street where the impact of a new access would be minimized. Why would it be ignored in terms of looking at an access to the less volume street, which is Country Club with traffic control especially as part of consideration of the larger development that perhaps would induce additional vehicle miles traveled in the future?
So, I'm just giving all the reasons why I think this is more than just a minor CUP amendment. It ignores some of the historical precedents and I would urge a majority vote for all of you to look at this together. Thank you.
Let me see. Mr. Seibert, can I ask you one question if you don't mind? It's just this. I think Mr. Weirich is bringing up one question that I also had. At what point – the principle that I'm thinking of is when does quantitative change become qualitative change and what I mean by that At what point do we say that there's an amendment to a current granted use where the size is so large that you would think of it as a new project?
Does that make sense, what I'm asking? Yeah. The code doesn't provide a stimulation for bridging that gap.
I see.
Thank you.
Is there anything online?
No raised hands on Zoom, Mayor.
Thank you Mr. Montgomery. My thought just I want to respond to the question and why it's got brought up my feeling in general with the commissions is that they spend hours on this and that my general feeling and I usually either watch them or attend them is they have weighed the questions that we are asking and they are working with the ordinances that are there and they've been concerned with these things now a lot of us have of course also talked with the applicants so My feeling is they have vetted these questions, they had the concerns we're bringing up. And so my thought is that I'm not inclined to go against their recommendation. That's my feel but I wanted to hear it out and I wanted to hear from the public. So I'm ready to hear from the other council
members. I'm interested in the traffic issues Councilmember Lang mentioned her constituents raised and her statement that she's, she and her constituents are satisfied.
2:59 – 3:0417 turns
Wait, so say more? Yeah.
You understand what I was asking?
Please respond or let us
know. Because I generally had some questions about trafficking in my understanding.
They were my questions and then when the people reached out to me and then I recommended you know watch the city planning meeting there were issues addressed there and that's what they did and they came back. Actually I reached back out them and said you know we're able to watch it what do you think and they said yeah we're all good So, you know I feel the same. You know with the issues in, you know, Country Club that's when they said I was like oh wait that to me makes sense like Country Club why it would you know make it there so yeah but I hear I was curious with Bill what you said you know being new to all of this so saying that there's more like power and numbers more like voting together Thank you very much.
I do recall that the City Council, many years ago when David Burry was on the council, he was an architect. He had a very – he was very driven towards the idea that we should You do everything along the Oak Lake Corridor as the Mission Revival that you see reflected in the museum and arcade. And I'm wondering if at some point in time, there is an argument that this particular property is well away from that collection of So has there ever been any, I mean, I don't know how that, if that policy was ever like adopted or if it was just a...
Can you? Please come.
The Planning Commission also addressed this.
Yeah, so just so you're aware we are gonna have like a little study session with the Planning Commission at the next meeting to talk about the guidelines that already exist and then whether or not there's opportunities for this western end. The east end already has East End Design Guidelines some reason the west end does not
So
there was a discussion, but the guidelines that we're talking about here are—some of these are 20 years old. Some are older than that.
And to add a little more if I could, none of the guidelines that exist have been adopted by the Council to this site. There are guidelines that have been adopted for the arcade and there are guidelines that were adopted for the former redevelopment area although those no longer apply under state law because the redeveloping agencies were dissolved 12 years ago, 13 years And then there's the guidelines on the east end that still apply. So it's a nesting set of guidelines that apply, none of them however apply to this site. There were discussions before but those never turned into council adopted actions.
So just for my future reference, I think you might be needed for this If there is an area that is expected to be kind of in that mission revival or mid-requis, you know where does it start and where does it end?
That is an excellent question. I don't want to get into the details of it, but there are areas that do have some Spanish styles that are further east of this, but then you start looking further west and it starts to look no further than just directly west and directly north.
So we've got, I think if you go from the Chantico Hotel out to the... Maybe Bristol? Firebird across from the golf course. It's kind of the end of the... So this, the end is Here's what I would say though, is the Commission
grappled with this. They grappled with it during the first meeting and they certainly grappled with at the second meeting. It's the reason why, at the end of that last discussion on the 15th, that the guidelines were let's have that discussion. Let's see where that goes. So know that they are very aware of it,
right? Yeah I heard the discuss...I didn't see the second meeting. I did see the first meeting and I was very I was actually very pleased with our new commissioners and the questions that they were asking.
3:04 – 3:1016 turns
Thank you. Well, I mean we could keep talking if there's not a motion then we will let it go unless there is...
Well I'm going to make...
Please.
Yeah. Go ahead. I just wanted to speak to the commission versus the council. I don't think that the Planning Commission's charge is to look at the community at large and the benefit versus the impact They have a code to follow. There is some discretion, but I think that there's a larger question for the Council to talk about and you know I'm just bringing this up because you know for me Granting an easement of a public way for a golf cart to go across so that people don't have to walk 200 feet or whatever it is. I'm just, that to me feels like a major deal and so... Mr. Rule if I
might suggest, if
you
make the motion, I know you're making the case again for the motion
but... Yeah well I'm commenting.
No, no I'm not trying to interrupt you.
Yeah so I'm making a motion. I mean make a motion to go ahead because our job is to look at benefit versus impact to the community, not to look at some of the more granular details. So I'm making a motion but in the end if people don't, if the council does not want to review it that's absolutely fine. That's my motion.
Second?
Okay I guess nobody wants to review it.
All right, we move on. Okay, by my account we are on former number five now number four professional services agreement for case management services with help of OHAI.
Yes, thank you Mayor. In light of the time this will be a very brief staff report I do want to point out that we do have Ms. Walter from Help of Ojai here with us as well. Thank You Ms. Walter. There she is in the back for sticking it out. Okay so as council is well aware the city received an ERF grant to relocate the unhoused encampment into the Cabin Village project As part of that grant application, which is included by the way with this agenda report, there is a call for professional case management services specifically through help of OHI.
While we have not constructed or come back to the council for ratification of their decision on the project, we have been in communication with the state continuously on this and transitioning services that help the population prepare to move into permanent supportive housing is an allowed reimbursement. And in light of the benefit that this could bring, and getting our folks ready to move into permanent supportive housing we would recommend that we get help of OHI on board with two case managers as soon as possible. One of the things that HELP will be doing, in fact they're already doing this which is why I was asking you Mayor if we could please get to this item tonight is entering in data into the HMIS system, which is required by the grant.
HELP is doing that for the city. That is one of their roles. So this is $145,000 for two case managers. It's a 1-year term with the ability to provide 1-year extensions as the grant allows or expires. And again, as I indicated, Ms. Walter is here to answer questions as am I. Thank you very much.
Any questions of staff? I have two public comments. One is Ruth Miller and the other, I have the card but there wasn't a name on the card so if you meant to write your name then yes Mr. Miley and then give me one more card so yes starting with Ruth
Hi, I'm Ruth Miller and I want to speak in favor of bringing Help with Ojai on as soon as possible. I wasn't real sure what supportive services for housing is for permanent housing. I found this handbook printed by Continuum of Care Ventura County and I'm going to read it all to you now. But I did want to read a few things here. What care managers, case managers do, they should have empathy and compassion, active listening, communication skills, and problem-solving skills.
And they're going to be bringing, hopefully Whitney on this week and she has all of those. Additionally she knows the residents already most of them. They trust her and she can move them forward more than the case management that they've been getting at Help of Ojai and some of those things are Connecting with resources, and that is health care coordination, mental health services, substance abuse treatment, employment support. income support, legal aid, communication into community integration education and skill development and peer support programs.
And with just my casual conversations with the residents I know that somebody needs help with her VA housing it's been very challenging for her there is somebody else who needs help with the VA services she has not been able to unwrangle that We have several who could use some more schooling of some sort, and there are actually quite a few of them who would like to go back to work. But it's been challenging for them. And these are the things that Help with Ojai on-site can help them do. So I hope you approve it.
3:10 – 3:178 turns
Hello. I fully support this proposed contract with help of Ojai for homeless caseworker service. I only wish there would be future consideration for a third caseworker if planned casework becomes burdened. In my opinion, casework is foundationally supported by having a village manager full-time Like Ms. Weiss, right now that's not planned. I would suggest the council visit this question every three months for the first year to see maybe you should change the plan.
I believe resident needs will require casework contracts more than a minimum of two times per month. That's what I read. It seems logical that success for residents in this Cabin Village program will come from the services effectively implemented by the efforts of Help of Ojai. An emphasis should be placed there. The $72,000 budget for each caseworker seems minimal when considering benefits.
They likely will not be able to live in the Ojai Valley.
Thank you, Mr. Miley. Rebecca,
thank you.
Hi, this is in reference to agenda number five and it's on the topic of Ojai Valley Services agreement for case management with the new project Ojai Cabin Village Project participants. I'm concerned because of my own personal experience as well as what I have experienced in different environments, but I can only speak from my perspective. And so there's no issue per se with for example having the concept of having a case manager work on a file to for example initiate and or pass through one's contract However, if you know for example you go into an element the location of Help of Ojai perfectly run perfectly managed well-run well managed they have two case workers that I know of that are very qualified workers however We're talking about an individual contract.
Now that could be a lease, that could be—and I speak for myself as an individual—that could be a lease, that could be a free tent town service contract And it's very different than, for example, what they were talking about I believe at Cabin Village having a fence and other modifications to the properties and things like that. Including walls and cement near Pickleball, etc.
And I just thought because I have had experience with contracts, not everyone communicates the same way. I'm not speaking on language. I am not speaking on very personal style. I am saying that because we all come from a very diverse dynamic influence, we're not going to necessarily say hey, I'm here to talk about and then the other person is like okay, This is not in reference to your, yes it is. It is because this is how I introduced my contract and I introduce myself in every setting so I don't have any power of attorney speaking for me. I come as an individual and this is the way it is since day one and I had a maintenance worker interrupt me while I was on the toilet in a public bathroom today because I was texting with an old landlord And I'm sorry, but this you're not going to sometimes people have children.
You know, things change about our lives. Right. But you're still going to have your own individual practice for how you initiate contact and or communication.
Thank you. Is there anything online? Mr. Montgomery
Mayor, we have no raised hands on Zoom.
OK. Well, I'd like to offer a motion which is that we accept the Professional Services Agreement for Case Management Services with the help of OHI as presented. Any discussion?
Yeah, I've got a couple of questions. So I'm kind of conflicted because I understand that if we've got a population of people with needs that they need to be addressed But it has always been my concern, you know since the beginning that the county should be with us at every phase and I'm very concerned that we're not talking about Thank you very much. of this project, which is you know the way I view it is really a two-thirds county one third city kind of proportionate responsibility in terms of the populations involved.
So Like I said, I'm very conflicted because I am sure the services are needed but I am very concerned. We keep marching down a road where we have no participation from the county.
3:17 – 3:228 turns
Sure, so I think I'd start with some building blocks. This is the funding to pay for the case managers is born from the ERF grant of 12.7 million dollars which was provided from the state to the city The county did assist the city in putting together the grant application, and the county will be a part of, through the Consortium of Care—Continuum of Care, excuse me—of working with us once we have a cabin village project. They are involved with this now. There are county services that are being provided.
It's been my observation that, well okay the simple answer for me on this one is that we received the money to pay for this and that's where this is coming from. That's the simple answer and I think that's how the county views this. I think the county
is- But this is going to be a It
depends, you know. I wouldn't tell you five years from now that I know with certainty that we necessarily need that level of support there. I don't know that. And so that's why things like our cost model are just models. This is what we think it's going to require. It could require less. It could require more. I'm also going to come back to you, and you may have caught a whiff of this and we're not on this item at a future meeting looking for a contract with Ventura County Behavioral Health.
And I get it that's another county service but what my observation has been in the this is my one year anniversary If you want services, you're going to have to pay for them. And I think we're better with the services than we are without and we can continue to work with the county on cost sharing. I think that they will once the project is built. There will be money coming from them funneled from the state for this but I would much prefer to get things continued to be stabilized and to use that grant money for it to make it better for everybody.
I am in support of this. Last week, I was at a policy committee meeting in Sacramento and I'm on the Community Services Policy Committee and one of the things that we discussed at that meeting was the fact that ERF funding Right now, it looks like there will continue to be state funding available. Obviously all of that is subject to change in the legislative session but that more and more from a state perspective and from the California League of Cities perspective, that behavioral health services And mental health services and recovery, substance abuse recovery is all falling under encampment funding or funding for homelessness. So that gave me some hope in terms of looking at our budget Thank you very much.
But, you know in that discussion was there any discussion about the expectation in terms of continuing funding meaning three or four years out and you know I'm concerned how much of state funding is a pass through a federal funding which we've just heard some noise that might all go away.
Yeah, and these were all – so the conversation about the absence of federal funding or the loss of federal funding did come up. And this state is trying to compensate for that. But again, this is all just in terms of looking at – this is subject to change.
I do think that it's something that we definitely need, people from help of OHAI. But to me, it's not
in order. We have a cost module that I see a lot of errors, in my opinion. And I think money should be dialed in first. Like Mr. Whitman said, you know what is the county willing? I know everybody's saying oh they will they will well it's been how long has the project been going on and we haven't heard anything yet so I think we need to get the budget, the money all of that dialed in first and then of course this would fall into place but I think it's backwards in my opinion
3:22 – 3:2918 turns
This came up a lot in conversations over the year, this past year. I'm a director of a non-profit and people would often ask Well, you have funding this year to do this project. What are you going to do next year if you don't get the grant? And my answer is we're not going to do the project. So it's a very common model in nonprofits that you work with what you have and you make due with what you can do. And so I was trying to bring up something very similar with our city which is we use our TOT and our sales tax and the revenue that comes into make commitment But there's no guarantee that we'll have that amount of money in two years or something like that if there is a Thomas Fire or COVID, but we will respond.
And so then when the question comes—I'm not trying to—I think about this too as I say well where is the funding going to come year five? And my answer is we don't have that answer for many things
But this is only, the cost module is only for one year. What about the second year? So do we get the community together to open up the books to say okay if it's going to be a million dollars and just throw in a number not that that's what we're saying it's gonna be a million dollars to run it and in the event these grants don't come in what do you want to give up? Do you want to give up paving? Do you want to give up police officers?
No those are questions that would be valid and I definitely want to ask but I guess what I would offer right now The services are needed right now. So I guess the, in my opinion, the approval of this contract right now is not a commitment to a location and a project in particular. And I understand Mr. Whitman's concern that we're moving down a road. I certainly see that.
I just would feel so much better if the county was like arm-in-arm with us doing this because other cities I think our experience at the county is not like Jumping in and I get that there was an article in the Star today about 1.2 million dollars for a project in Thousand Oaks and the county share is like 180,000
well my it's about a 10%
share
I hear you I guess my I think mr Harvey feels this way too that we did have a panel with Mr. LaVere and Had some conversation, and we're going to press some of that. And we continue to press that, and it's a big concern of mine as well.
How long ago was that panel?
In December. Yeah, this past December. But I guess what I'm trying to say is my opinion is we are not going to get the answer that's going to make you feel 100% comfortable. We're not going to get that answer right. I think that's the truth. But, I think our revenue extends more than one year of operation. In other words, I believe in the grant we're looking at two years and then in some of the cost modeling. We can certainly criticize the model and we'll look at that not today. We'll look at that another day but we should obviously
And I stand with what I say, that like I think the money should be in line first before you go ahead. Even though yes, I know that we need this but it's just... The money needs to be there and as a community to open up the books to say okay what are you willing to forego in the event? It's just smart business in my opinion.
Well, it's just echoing on that. It's also negotiation with the county so I don't know that it bothers Mr. LeVere but if we weren't doing this there would be no program and his area of responsibility would you know fall far short he's counting on us to do this because But at the same time, I'm very much concerned that the occupants of this cabin village we've started down there. They need services and I just feel uncomfortable with the idea that we're gonna be the lifeline for the entire valley.
We're
a small percentage.
Well I wonder if we can, oh you have something you want
to add? Well yeah. We have the money for this. The state gave us 12 plus million and that's what we have. It doesn't matter if it came from the county. Doesn't matter if it came from the state. That is money sitting in our bank account to help these people to build shelter. That money can go a long way for a long time And if we didn't have that, if it comes out that as I think Mayor Gilman was implying, if it comes out that we have no money and we're not willing to funnel from any other sources then we shut it down. That would be the decision.
You know, but still we would have had four to six years of services and that is better than no services. And that is the money that we have now whether or not the model is good or bad I think we can all agree that were covered for four years That is better than not being covered for any years. And I just believe that if push comes to shove and nobody wants to put any money towards it, then it shuts down. But that's what happens if we don't do anything.
Same thing, only we get four years of a benefit. And quite honestly I understand about the county taking responsibility and we have heard that Proposition 1 money will be available. We've heard that you know we will be in line for that. We've gotten as deep assurances as is possible to get there is no guarantee but right now we have 12 million dollars to build 30 shelters permanent shelters For four years, that we are pretty sure can be covered and we assume maybe another two.
That's better than nothing. And we give that money back, we got nothing. We're in the exact same position only we're in that position now instead of being able to provide services for four years and potentially help four years worth of people. So that's kind of the way I look at it. We got the money
If I could offer just an echo, and then I want to hear from you is that it sounds like we're way into the budget conversation that we're going to have next week. So I might suggest that we move forward on this. That's my suggestion, and that we have this deeper conversation in a week. Yes, please, Mr.
Harvey. Mayor, Ms. Walter is here, and she's asking if she can just quickly
chime in? Oh yes! She'll be very brief. And then I want to hear what you have to say.
3:29 – 3:3512 turns
The only thing I want to say, and Andy you just sort of mentioned all of it. This is for the help of Ojai Professional Services Agreement so this is not for what is happening with the future project. We have a lot of work to do and we need to do it and we haven't been able to do it because we haven't had the funding. Should you guys make whatever decision in terms of what is built, what isn't built etc., our priority is to support the people in the encampment now who as of now 30-ish, right? We want to work on a 1 to 15 ratio. That is intensive case management that is not forever.
That is intensive case management that's needed now and our objective whether it's cabin village or not is to help people get housed so we prioritize that immediately Folks may get housed sooner than when anything is built, and that would be a win and a huge success for us. So I just want to just chime in and say this is for our work as case managers not for building this project or what will happen in two to four years but this next year of what is desperately needed here.
I don't think it's like an insane amount of money that we're asking for as Bill Miley even mentioned. This is our work and so Get your support so we can actually start doing it.
Thank you very much.
And I can answer any questions, Ben, do you want or Mr.
Harvey? No, please. Hold on a second, Mr. Whitman if I could. She's been waiting.
Yeah, yeah. I was just going to say one thing and that is with the regard to the county in the city. If we remember what happened, what was happening before Tent Town came up, we had individuals who were sick, You know, really having issues with fire. I mean this falls under the category of well-being of our whole community, safety of our whole community and also...I've been doing dinners at Tent Town. I'm one of the meal train people And these people, they really shine when they have resource. I mean you can see the best in them come out when they're given the support they need and they're members of our community.
And I just think that we have this awesome grant, this surprise abundance, this jackpot right now to meet a need in our community That is a real need, and I think we can work out the budget concerns and the county concerns. But for right now why not give support to the people who are on the front lines working to help our entire community?
Yeah, I was just going to say that over the last couple of years of listening to what's happening, you know the role that your group plays is a role that I think most of the community is behind and supports. And I think we, the project I think kind of started out conceptually whether it was a misperception or not was We would be providing a temporary help so that people could be placed into bigger services programs and when I hear you talk about case working, I'm kind of assuming that's part of what you're doing.
And so I do appreciate that work and I do really understand that it's very important. Are we
ready? Okay roll call please
Roll-call vote Passed 4–1 Moved by Andy Gilman · Seconded by Rourke motion by Mayor Gilman and a second by Councilmember Rourke to approve as recommended. Roll call.
Show transcript
Motion
passes. All right, we're gonna do this. Okay yeah all right so we are on former item number six now five introduce an ordinance amending and restating section 9-1 Ojai Municipal Code establishing energy efficiency single family homeowners for certain renovations staff report please
yes we have a couple components here we have Walker is here with throwing us all off with his new hair Do you want to take the presentation from there at the podium? And then I think Mr. Seibert, do you want
to- Give us ten seconds and we'll let some people exit in so we can hear you.
Sure, sure. And we have any, oh yeah, and Myra's here joining us via Zoom as well. I see that. That's great. So I think, Mr. Wells, anybody else we're expecting to be here? All right. And we'll load that presentation and be ready to go here in a second.
3:35 – 3:456 turns
I'm just, this is not the presentation you gave last time. It's something different? Yes. Okay. Thank you.
All right. Mayor, Council Members, thank you for this opportunity to share this work related to the existing Building Energy Code. My understanding is it's, this is characterized as an introduction first reading of an ordinance and... Somewhere in here we need to have a public hearing in order to do that, so I just want to—I'll need some help on the procedural things. My role is just to present this information.
So there's a little bit of refresher of what we talked about before and then the primary part of it is to go through the ordinance in a little more detail, the mechanics of it, so you understand how it works. We can go to the next slide. Next slide? So this is just a timeline to remind you that we've been at this since about April when the city did agree to enter into and really take the assistance from Clean Power Alliance, which is your electricity provider. They're a nonprofit provider of electricity and their intent is really to provide electricity that has a higher level of renewables than the electricity that comes in off the grid.
We had some outreach in August, some targeted outreach to hear from different stakeholders. Did an information session in October and then was here back in December to provide an update that led to your direction to come back with more information on the ordinance. Again, this approach called FlexPath was developed because of the 9th District ruling on Berkeley and Berkeley's gas ban. And so you had a previous ordinance that was also suspended and determined to not comply with the Federal Energy Policy Act because it was really focusing just on electrification. And so the FlexPath approach It provides a number of flexible options around energy efficiency, like adding insulation or equipment or plant replacement. And generally the electric equipment, certainly the heat pump equipment is much more efficient than conventional gas equipment.
So you'll see a mixture of strategies in here. FlexPath approach meets the Energy Policy Act and it also aligns with what the Energy Commission does in terms of determining cost effectiveness. So they look at these different measures and determine which ones are considered cost effective for each of the different climate zones, so we get that information from the CEC.
Applicants have choices about what they want to do. We have spoken how the administration can, for the most part, be folded into the regular administration building permit review process that's already in place so there's not a big administrative burden and you can see that some other cities have already done this and it's been working for them. San Luis Obispo being the most noteworthy.
Okay, so these are kind of the guts of all of it. There's these triggers, things that would trigger the need to comply and then there is a series of measures that you see on the right that all have different points associated with them. Based on the review of the permit data, looking at sort of the size of projects that get permitted in Ojai, we've arrived at this 300 square foot level to be the first trigger. So projects smaller than that wouldn't need to do anything. Three hundred and above would need to do enough things to get eight points on that chart you see over there And projects of 1,000 square feet or greater would need to get 19 points on the chart there.
Who decides which things get how many points? The CEC helps us with that as well so each point is worth one million BTU of savings over the life of that intervention whether it's the life of the attic insulation or the life of a heat pump hot water heater. So it's not just randomly assigned. There's a reason for this. And then, this is structured so that you could get your eight points or your 19 points by not having to do electrification of anything. So we're not forcing people into electrification. You can cobble them together through insulating your water heater, sealing the existing duct system, et cetera, et cetera. And then this has all been tested by me and really Myra, who's done most of this work on the mechanics to make sure that it's all copacetic again with the Federal Policy Institute requirements.
Next slide. Developed a number of exemptions, we talked about some of these last time. They're also in the staff report and in the draft ordinance. I can just touch on a few important ones. So if it's just a repair, it may not even need to get a building permit so it wouldn't be covered. If it's more significant repairs, something is flooded or whatever, it would be exempt.
If the cost of compliance is estimated to be 20% or greater than the total cost of the project, it would be exempt. We have some examples to show you the unlikeliness of that but we feel like there... These energy-efficient things to sort of overburden the project to an unreasonable extent. Historic buildings, doing things to mitigate hazards like seismic retrofits or fire hardening that's all in our minds. We think those should be exempted.
Thank you very much. And if you somehow could only end up in a situation where you had to do one of these APCA covered appliances for whatever reason, then you would also be exempt because we can't make you do things that are regulated by the federal government. Tell me to slow down if I'm going too fast. Okay, we have two examples and I think those are the final slides so here's an example 300 square foot renovation of an existing single-family home to make a second bathroom So no new square footage, but alteration that needs a permit within that existing building. It's 300 square feet so its target score is eight and then the construction cost is estimated to be $180,000 at $600 a square foot.
So, one approach is they just put in a heat pump hot water heater. They get 12 points and they're done because they only need to get heat. And then the other option you can see compliance path two, they could do duct sealing and attic insulation and that would give them eight points, the minimum they need. Then you see the price estimated cost increases here 4.1% for doing the heat pump hot water heater or 5.6% for cost increase Next slide.
This would be 1,000 square foot interior renovation and maybe expansion of a building to kind of open up the kitchen into the living room. So it's over 1,002 square feet or more so its target score is 19 half a million dollars of construction cost and so you can see again Most straightforward pathway, they choose a heat pump hot water heater and then a heat pump space heater HVAC system. Those two together would give them 19 points which is what they need and then you can see the cost by 5% and then on Compliance Path 2 it's quite a smorgasbord of options but it's new ducts, new windows, attic insulation, wall insulation can all add up to 19 points. You can see again no equipment is included in Pathway 2 Sort of non-regulated types of things.
They get their 19 points, and you can see 5.6% cost increases. I think that may be the last slide. Next one.
Thank you. The examples are
helpful. Okay. Are
we... Just one clarification that I had asked in the meantime. If you go back to the exemptions and the 20%, just to...I'm saying it again my understanding. Tell me if I'm wrong. Let's say hypothetically, to make the numbers easy, The cost for the 300 square foot addition is $100,000 and if they were to get to the eight points it would cost them more than the 20%. They can get to something like six points or five points. They are still expected to expend up to the 20% to get as many points as they can. That's just not clear in this slide but that's the case.
That's the case, yes. Yeah that they're not just exempt so right you wouldn't say well I have to spend more than 20% so I don't have to do anything no you would say you need to do as many measures as are feasible without getting to the 20%. Yes. Questions?
3:45 – 3:5433 turns
Yeah, I have a question. For exemption number seven it was ADUs to which follow the state exemptions? What does that mean? Is it all ADUs or is there some state exemption specific to this? So that was my question. Lucas,
I'll say my understanding is sort of ADUs have a whole series of their own legal protections about being able to influence them. So I have a feeling that there's some state regulations about ADU that might supersede
what we're able to do. That exempt all ADUs, I guess is my question?
And I can provide some clarity here. Can you all hear me?
Yes.
Yeah.
Okay perfect. Good evening Council. I just want to make it clear that new ADUs would not be covered under this ordinance because this is for existing buildings. Attached ADUs would be exempt, so things like garage conversions with the exception of an attached ADU that is adding square footage to the home. Those types of ADUs would need to comply with this ordinance.
And it would only be if the additional footage was 300 feet or more, or if it was the total? So okay. Right so you had an attached ADU and you were adding an addition of 200 square feet, you wouldn't include the 300 square feet that was the attached ADU hypothetically and the 200 to get to 5. It would only be the 200 of the new construction. Do you see what I'm saying? So not the total of the ADU plus the new construction, just the new construction would have to be over 300.
Are you talking about a situation where there's renovations in the home in addition to expanding
the square footage? Yeah, so an example would be that I have a detached ADU. I have a garage that is exempt But, you know, it's 300 square feet but it's exempt. But then I increased the square footage of the garage and the attached... Well that would not be an attached so let's just say I'm converting a basement and it's 300 square feet but I'm also going to build out 200 square feet. So it's now 500 square feet, but is the detached In other words, do you take the total square footage of 500 and say oh now because you built something and it kicks it over the limit. You now have to pay for all of it? Is that... Do you understand?
Yeah, I converted to a basement because the garage generally is detached. So yeah. Attached however you want to think about that and attached ADU that's 300 square feet. That would be exempt but you add 200 square feet additional so you do an addition for 200 square feet. You are now at 500 square feet so you've added Never mind.
You've added 200 square
feet. Or you could add 300, you know? I'm just curious if they're exempt regardless of added square footage which is so nuanced that who even cares but I was just curious.
I don't know if we... Well because I did care! I don't know if we get a whole lot of attached ADUs that add square footage.
Yeah. Well, I'm curious because it's a question worth asking because someone might come in and you're like, well, I don't know.
Yes, no, I could. I mean, you know, I can see that.
OK. Did you have something you want to
say? Yes. So I think it's the I think that's why we're doing this tonight is trying to identify things that may need to get clarified between first reading and second reading. So this issue with ADUs is like we need to check the state law to see if they have any special protection and then to provide clarity
on
your questions.
Ms. Seibert, did you have something to add or no?
Yeah I mean Myra did an extensive deep dive into the permitting data that we know we have available and this is the ordinance that you're seeing before you based on that data right so it's there's trends and then addressing some of those exceptions which have been drawn out from other cities in other counties that have this in place so That's really how this has been developed and to the point of what we're talking about here tonight, this is a first reading. It's really a discussion in terms of what's been worked on over the last several months and lots of discussion and clarification Deep dives into some of the questions that you guys are bringing up tonight. So no, thank you It's important that we rattle the cage here is what I'm getting at.
Yeah But correct me if I'm wrong, I think The answer to that last question is if you add 200 square foot to a 300 square foot ADU it's not going to trigger this ordinance unless you're also doing Over a hundred square foot of improvements on the existing in order to get the total amount of what you're building to 300 feet.
Correct?
That's right.
300 is the magical number.
Mayor and Council, if I could add, that's the present draft which mirrors the minimum exemptions in state law for ADUs. As a policy choice, the council could modify those state minimums to exempt all ADUs or modify any of the numeric thresholds. Those are the policy choices for the council.
And this is for Mr. Seibert. So last time we were here talking about this you tell me if I'm remembering what you said incorrectly okay? This mix, this flex path. How difficult will this be to work with all the contractors you work with and people who come into the office that like explain
that? So I in working with with the group that has presented this there are I have some concerns in terms of rolling this out. And we've right now as you see, the draft ordinance for first reading has it at 60 days before it goes live. I'm concerned that getting that to the contractors and the community, that really is going to need a massage and understand. I mean, I've been diving into this for the last four months, three months, and I'm just starting to understand it.
Which is kind of interesting, considering how technical this is to a certain degree. The individuals that you have presenting to us tonight, they presented this to other cities. They understand it forward and backward. I've already started wiki-leaking this to my staff and making them aware that this is coming down the pipe. As to the details of it, that's really what this council is trying to sort through. But I'm nervous that a 60-day rollout may not be enough time.
And then just one other question. So the number of projects that would fall into this category where we would be looking at how many per month would you say would come—that this would apply to?
Because you've asked me that question before, and I did a little bit of research. And it's about one project on average every month is what we're looking at. Now if you look at the ordinance that we had previous, it was only for new builds, and that was basically one a year. So we're looking at one a year to one a month on average. Could be more, could be less each month.
Thank you. Anymore questions for staff before we go to public comments?
All right.
We can bring this up in discussion, but I'm still confused about the ADUs. Detached? Attached? How much addition? Remodel? You know, I built an ADU and I added footage so that's just a question that I have. So I think because it's determined by state law, I just think it's something to really clarify and it's one of the larger sort of remodels and improvements and actually new housing that we find in our city.
I just have a question for Lucas. Do you feel like your staff could handle this?
3:54 – 4:009 turns
Yes,
okay great.
I'm fully confident that they can we had a previous ordinance for landscaping and that was quite the rollout and it was over the span of a year and that got everybody comfortable and on board with what's going on. That was a 90-day delay before we really started rolling out live
mm-hmm
thank you
thanks okay let's have public comments now I have Bill Miley Larry Steingold and then Shawn Jacobson Is Mr. Miley here? Okay, Larry Steingold, Shawn Jacobson and Alan Greenberg.
Larry Steingold, why is this limited to single-family homeowners? If I own the property next door and I want to do a retrofit or an increase, I'm not a single-family homeowner. I'm now an investor. So that would not be covered because this says single family homeowners. Why, if we're going to do this which is as painful as it is and for reasons I don't necessarily agree with but that's not the point. Okay make it all upon sale, make it on all homeowners within a certain period of time or upon sale or all properties, all single family homes upon releasing or upon sale, and also have it apply to apartments.
I mean all you people have been saying for the past four, five, six years 50% of the population rents well then 50% of the population isn't being they have too many greenhouse gases in their house whatever why aren't these places upgraded upon re-renting? I mean, if you're going to do it, do it. If you're not going to do it, stop playing around. I mean this is nickel and dime. Single family homeowners, great.
I own 10 properties. I want to add 200 feet each one. I don't have to comply, right? I gather that's the way it's written. So make the investor comply. Everybody, I mean they're all upgrading anyway upon when they buy a house. They're upgrading it anyway but just make it deal with this upon sale, upon retrofit of an investor-owned home. I've run a landlord-owned home and upon releasing, re-renting of an apartment. But then those costs have to be passed through to the tenant which has to go beyond the 4%.
If you want anybody to upgrade otherwise they won't upgrade. You can't pass the cost alone because the investor is not going to eat it he just won't do it Otherwise, it's just making everything more expensive to live here which then makes it more unaffordable to live here so now you need more affordable housing. Okay? So it's a big but just make everybody comply eventually if that's the goal.
Thank
you.
Good evening. Almost good night. Since studying geography with an emphasis on urban planning and climate science at UCSB, I've worked in Ojai locally for 17 years. I've worked with the Ojai Valley Green Coalition as the chairman of the Energy Committee, and I've worked as a employee of the Green Coalition for the Ojai Energy Efficiency Initiative which was funded by SCE.
Per the rationale for this code, I agree that burning fossil fuels causes global warming and the resulting climate change is going to have multi-generational impacts on biodiversity and the welfare of humanity. For the rationale of this code, I agree that there are direct safety risks with use of gas in homes such as carbon monoxide poisoning and the long term effects in health impacts from nitrous oxide.
I applaud people taking personal action at their homes with energy efficiency and solar to reduce their use of fossil fuels, reducing their energy bills and making their home safer. When doing a big home project this is the right time to consider doing these actions as it will be more affordable and it will be less intrusive. I agree with the intent of REACH codes such as the one proposed however I'm concerned that the approach may actually have unintentional consequences as follows.
This may disproportionately impact low-income homeowners that are on very limited budgets for their projects. Homeowners may choose to do the work unpermitted, which may lead to far more potential safety issues and noncompliance with the Title 24 Code. Electrification measures will generally increase overall energy costs due to a high price of electricity versus gas.
Without solar to offset this increase, this could result in meaningful increases in monthly and annual energy budgets. Without home energy storage for backup power, fully electrified homes are less resilient to prolonged power outages. This is because natural gas pilot lights can be lit during outages. It is possible that this could further sow distrust in climate science based on the perception that these codes are driving social engineering agendas and as a result of the science the codes are created.
This could end up increasing fossil fuel consumption due to human and American nature, to rebel such mandates. I propose that the city reconsider the Reach Code policies with alternative methods for achieving desired outcomes. Here are some options to consider. Prioritizing discounted building and planning review, reducing costs, offer over-the-counter permits, offer virtual permits, offer education materials outreach training stakeholder engagement I'd love Ojai to be 100% renewable energy. I don't believe the pathway is with this code.
It is now more critical than ever for our government to lead by example through prioritizing electrification and energy efficiency upgrades in these facilities while supporting and trusting individuals...
4:00 – 4:067 turns
Thank you very much. I think he got it, thank you very much. Alan Greenberg, Wayne Maynard, and Michelle Ellison. Good evening.
Good evening, all of the council members know me except for our new member. Congratulations I'm glad you're here.
Thank you.
I am violently opposed to this ordinance. The Reach Code, I was violently opposed to that and from what I know is that the courts ruled against it. I don't think it's been removed from the ordinances here yet. I know it's not being enforced. I feared what is happening now, it's going to go further. And once this is passed then the next effort will be to make every home comply and add 8 points or 12 points and I seriously resent the city coming into everybody's homes and telling them what to do. I have nothing against the utility And if they can deliver electricity that's greener or what have you, that's fine.
I've spent $150,000 on my roof for solar panels so I don't pay much electricity because of my investment but I'm looking at these recitals Residents and businesses have repeatedly identified climate actions as a top community priority. I don't believe that. I can give you names of a lot of people, upstanding people in this town very responsible and contributors to the community who have had no chance to talk to anybody about this. There's something in this thing, requirements specified in this ordinance were reviewed by public comment and through publicly noticed hearings process. We did not have an opportunity.
My main point of being here is the opposition, quote unquote, has not had an opportunity to sit and talk with people. A forum like this there's no give-and-take we can't explain all this it mentions the Paris climate thing our new president is withdrawing from the Paris climate and he's called the Green New Deal So there's other points of view. We should have the opportunity to sit with people who designed this chapter and verse down to the last word. I've read every word in this ordinance, it's very complete and very detailed.
And we haven't even had a chance to talk about it. So I'm asking the council to set up some sort of a meeting where the... Thank you Mr. Greenberg.
Wayne Maynard and Michelle Ellison.
Good evening, Wayne Maynard, a resident of Ojai. Just after the presentation I thought there was some confusion with regards to renovations versus adding square footage. I think it needs to be clear as to what the triggering elements are on that. There was an example, I think in one of the slides, a 1,000-square foot renovation of what I assume was an existing kitchen and living room that was supposed to be at 500 square feet or $500 per square foot.
That's a rather excessive renovation, I think if you take a wall out and open up your space. So I think it needs to be the concept of renovation, minor or major, what triggers it and what doesn't. It's pretty easy to determine on square footage when you have square footage for permits. Something I think needs to be looked at. The next concern I have is getting credit for previously installed mitigation measures, so if I voluntarily put a solar system on my roof and then I come back a year later and want to do a permitted renovation, do I get credit for that previously done improvement that I made or don't because I have to do something else now?
That's the concern. And then the next one would be getting multiple exempt permits. I've seen this happen where you have a 500-foot project and you break it up into 300 foot and 200 foot permit, and each one is exempt. So that's something we just need to figure out how to make sure that that's addressed.
Thank you. Thank you very much Mr. Mayor. Michelle Elson.
4:06 – 4:125 turns
Good evening Council, staff. Is that better? Okay. I'm Michelle Ellison, resident of Ojai. Happy to see this ordinance before our council tonight and ask for your vote in support of adopting it. This has been many months in the making as we've been hearing about and there's been a lot of thoughtful consideration and deliberation put into the development of this ordinance.
There's been several council meetings where the public's had the opportunity to learn about this opportunity and weigh-in and this is yet another opportunity so grateful that we have this opportunity for public input. I particularly want to thank city staff, Lucas, Ben and the team in City Attorneys for their thorough review and careful attention to the details along the way because there are a lot of details as we're seeing.
I also want to acknowledge and thank Clean Power Alliance for offering this grant opportunity to cities like ours interested in reducing emissions and for the technical support expertise of TRC and thank you Myron and Walker. So the burning of fossil fuels is wreaking havoc on our climate, throwing natural ecosystems out of balance and having catastrophic consequences around the globe and even close to home.
Like the devastating fires we are seeing which are happening more frequently and with greater intensity. Ojai is not safe from the effects of climate breakdown, so it's in our best interest to act. While Ojai is a small town and this ordinance might just seem like a small drop in a very big bucket, it absolutely matters. Our actions add up and serve as an example for others and can inspire a ripple effect far beyond our town lines. We've got to do everything we can. It's all hands on deck and all-of-the-above strategy to swiftly draw down emissions. This is just one of many efforts we must undertake.
We have a moral responsibility To protect the commons, we share the same air and drink the same water. I mean this is a moral issue. Civil society benefits from protections afforded by rules and regulations. We have a lot of them everywhere around us and we have a lot of rules and regulations to protect us including protecting people from harmful effects of pollution and climate change for the health safety and well-being for all.
While it's wonderful when individuals voluntarily take steps to reduce their carbon footprint, it's simply not enough. Policies move the needle much more significantly and quickly than waiting for one person at a time to change. And now, more than ever, we need local governments to step up and lead on climate. This ordinance presents such an opportunity because energy use in our homes is a significant source of local emissions, it makes good sense to find ways to conserve energy.
One such way is by implementing energy efficiency measures at the time a major renovation or addition is presented in this ordinance. The flexible approach gives people a variety of cost-effective options to choose what works best for their circumstances. This ordinance is a good starting point, and adjustments or tweaks can always be made down the road as we learn more.
While our community embarks on developing a climate action plan over the coming years, you know, for that comprehensive view, we shouldn't delay taking steps like this to reduce emissions in the...
Thank you Ms. Elson.
Good evening. What effect on the world's carbon production could this ordinance in Ojai have? What possible effect could less than 8,000 people stopping carbon use have versus the eight billion people on the planet To think about it, think about your budget. How much do you think about an $80 expenditure when you're looking at the whole year's budget or multiple years' budgets?
I do however believe in this idea that we can be a model, that we could be the change but I don't think we are the change through mandates I don't think we're the change through an ordinance that's passed in the United States, under United States law. It may or may not make it through our courts, through appeals. Here are some incentives. I think we can be part of the change by showing our own city government follows its own ordinances to reduce carbon footprint.
For example, ordinance 930 is about lawnmowers and leaf blowers, and how I or my neighbors can't use a gas lawn mower. Well that ordinance exempts city contractors in the city itself Why can't the city follow its own carbon neutralization or minimization policies? That would be a change that could send forth thousands of ripples of hope, that could actually make a difference.
Another thing that's a bit more pressing I think today than the ordinance in front of you is fire hardening. I do wonder if people who are considering renovations, and they're using kind of their last dime or nickel that they have for renovations, are able to consider fully the impact of their renovation and how they could fully harden their renovation against fire.
And the last thing I want to leave you with is something that's very important to me, which is the cost of housing in Ojai. It's something that's not addressed here. I wonder if there's a way that this ordinance could have a positive impact on the price of housing. I wonder if there is some way that the fees for a house could be improved, with carbon.
Thank you, Sartell. Mr. Montgomery, anything online?
Mayor, we have no raised hands. Oh, we just had one. We have two now, Erica and Steve. Erica, do you have the floor?
4:12 – 4:183 turns
Hi, this is Erica Helson resident of Ojai. I just first want to say thank you to staff for taking this on as Lucas mentioned it it is a bit complicated. It is a bit technical so thank you to staff for exploring this and I thought the presentation tonight was great distilling it down So, a couple of things. I just want to remind Council as I'm sure you're aware that Ojai's emissions come from buildings and cars when we've done an analysis of where all of Ojai's emissions come from the majority of those emissions are from buildings and cars so there's not a whole lot that the city can do to regulate cars there is more that the city can do to regulate building so that's why we're talking about this And I appreciate the discussion about not wanting to impose mandates, but the reality is that climate change is real and burning fossil fuels is driving climate change.
And if we continue burning fossil fuels, we can't make a dent in this issue. So a lack of mandates has not proven effective. There are a lot of great incentive programs around But we don't see a lot of action and where we see action is when we have policy. So I'd love to see a policy like this put into place, and I think there are a lot of supports around the city that will enable this to be a comfortable transition There are workforce development programs where contractors can actually get paid to learn how to install heat pump water heaters.
There are state rebates, there are county rebates, there are federal tax credits. So there's a lot that is available. I think the quotes or the case studies that were presented showed that the cost there didn't factor in incentives so I think There's a lot we can do to drive down the cost of these projects. I live in a fully electrified house. The efficiency of these heat pump water heaters, we just spoke with a plumber who does a lot of these projects, you can actually get paid when you enroll your heat pump water heater in demand response programs so I don't think this is all going to increase costs. And I know that housing affordability is an important concern too, and I think this will lead to better quality housing and healthier homes in a healthier planet.
So thanks for your consideration tonight.
Thank you. Next we have Steve. Steve, you have the floor.
This is Steve Colomay, I'm a resident of Ojai. I want to address some misconceptions that I've heard today and in some of the written comments. This is not an all-electric code most assuredly I'm not sure how anyone could come to that conclusion reading the staff report or the draft of the ordinance. This is a nudge when there's a large-scale addition or renovation for cost effective energy conservation measures to be taken. Now by cost effective, that means that it's It's a nudge to the project proponent and or the contractor to recognize that they should be looking at more than first costs. So there will be a payback for these measures that are being adopted. It's also a misnomer to call this a mandate. This would end up simply being incorporated into the building code like any other requirement that is in the building code.
A contractor would come in and they would be given a check sheet And as Lucas indicates, it'll take a little time to realize that they need to go through that checklist. But I think you can see from the presentation that was a fairly straightforward list of things in terms of the public discussion. This is now the fifth time that this has come before the council and One fashion or another, the major focus was on focus groups because the people affected by this are a fairly 12-a-year as Lucas indicates and largely we're looking at projects That are done by people who have considerable discretionary capital to do improvements that they have been looking at for some time.
And the target group here is very likely going to be the 12 or so local developers that will be doing projects of this scale. So this project is ready now. I think we should move forward. It's one small step. It's not going to be a ton of tons of CO2, but we have to take one step at a time. And I'd also like to encourage you because I think we've heard a group that was probably organized to give negative comments here to please look at the written comments in addition. Thank you.
4:18 – 4:269 turns
That's all, Mayor.
And what I'm hoping to do going forward is to introduce a step in the process of everything that we introduced generally speaking, and that would be similar to what you would see as a concept review. So you hear something proposed and you get something fleshed out. And so that fleshed out piece is what would go to the larger community in a way that we would reach out to. And so my intention with what we talked about on December 10th was to bring something forward that would then go for community input. That's my intention, and so what my thought was in that is we would hear this today, hear something more fleshed out And then my thought is that we would work with those contractors and say, what would this look like for you? We would hear from some of the community concerns about involving more of the communities.
Yes, there were focus groups. There's varying descriptions of how well attended those were. That's fine. But I'd like to reach out much more further and say, this is an interesting idea. It's something that's trying to get at a situation, and we would like to reach out for more people. So I find the idea worth pursuing, but I want to hear more from the community so that we can do something that people could get behind and it's more refined and clear. That's my view. So that's my intent. Please.
Okay. Respectfully, this is the third time that this has come back to us and we've had a lot of participation so I do feel like we've done our due diligence in addressing community concerns also we have a limited time in which we have contractors who are available to help us roll this out and as we heard this is going to be a 60-day rollout But the contractors that we've received a grant to have this support for a 12-month period of time, they've actually extended it because this was supposed to happen last year.
And so I am of the perspective of we could do a lot more for climate and for emissions but this is a starting point that is doable and so I'm actually in favor And
if I could reply, the contractor's period of help in my view is the tail wagging the dog. So instead of saying we want to, in my opinion, instead of working with the contractors timeline, I would say is this what is best for the community? And so to me, that's still an open question. That's why when I ask Mr. Siebel how many projects are we talking about potentially not working on?
One or two, that's really not much. So if we adopted in two months or three months or four months, we're talking about two or three or four at the most renovating. So that to me is very minor. Now, I do agree with a principle that has been said is we should act in such a way that we want to work on this problem even if it's small. I fully agree with that. I also agree with some of the public comments that there's language in the whereases that goes so far beyond what this needs to say I have serious concerns with some of the language, and it doesn't have to be there. It's extraneous stuff but I would want to go back and work on this pretty soon.
This is a complicated question and the complications for me are it's not a question of whether or not this is a good idea to do. I think that any small step is a good idea to do, this seems to be flexible enough to me but my concern once again is the mandating of it, the requirement of it and even if it's just requiring a permit Thank you very much. Thank you very much.
Both in the short term and in the long term, when you factor in the fact that we are 8000 people. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't do it. So that's the other question. And I appreciate Michelle Ellison's work, Steve Colomay's work. I've seen Michelle online answering questions And the genuineness and the authenticity of wanting to move this forward is, it's persuasive to say the least. The degree to which people believe in this but so that's my concern.
If it's an either or and it might be because two mandates seem sort of excessive, I'm going to go with fire hardening. And I don't even know if that's a question but also I think there was a misunderstanding and I foresaw it immediately when this came up for first reading. I know that Mayor Gilman thought that this would be, we needed to have something to move out into the community.
To get input from and to actually do a wider range and a more diverse range of input. But I knew if it came back to first reading you put the process in motion. And I think that's kind of where we are now. We've put this process in motion. It wasn't intended. To be put in motion, it was intended to be put in motion but not as a vote. So we're kind of at that stage now. I'm not sure what to do with this. It was clear to me that this first reading was to be what would go out to the community and would get feedback on. And that question is, you know, do you want to mandate this? If you want mandates, would you want two mandates or would you prefer a fire-hardening mandate?
So that's kind of my question and that's what I would ask the community. Whether or not, you know, you have a lot of money to do your renovation still in all it's a question that the community should be involved in so that sort of That's where I stand on this. If I'm going to go with a priority, it's going to be fire hardening and mandating fire hardening on the remodels.
And the question becomes do we do both? And I would have to probably say no.
Do you want to...
No, I agree with you and Leslie absolutely. You have to pick one. I think fire hardening is the right
one. Sure. Yeah, talk so everybody can hear you.
Yes. I agree with what Leslie It's late. You know both important topics, I totally get that but I was under the impression too that this would be more of a community input. I have spoke with Michelle and stuff and she had said that the people that have reached out to me that had concerns like you know we could put them in a list and I would forward and they could be addressed and all of that but I think you know listening to the community has been a goal since before when we meet in the park it was listening to the community so that's something that I feel Okay,
4:26 – 4:332 turns
I am a little bit concerned about the idea that there's an either-or here. Either we fire harden or we do—and I also think it's a complete misconception in what this ordinance does and I want to commend Mr. Wells I was kind of surprised at how many concepts that I thought were fantastic about this he managed to incorporate in his presentation. If you are a person who loves your fossil fuel, and we admittedly have some of those people who live in Ojai, this does not tell you you cannot have fossil fuel.
What this tells you, and I'm going to give a lot of credit to our former colleague Susa Francina. Whenever we talked about an energy or climate-based issue she said look, we're never going to make any progress on climate unless we reduce our energy consumption This, more than anything in my mind and my way of looking at it is an ordinance to cause a segment of our population to reduce their energy consumption because in order to get a permit to build a certain amount of renovation or additional square footage you're going to need to go through and achieve a modest amount of energy efficiency.
If you want to continue using fossil fuel, you're allowed to achieve all of your required objectives by doing insulation and other measures. One of the other things that I really like about this ordinance is that these values that have been baked into it aren't something that we came up or even our engineers came up with The values are taken from state energy studies about how you achieve efficiency. Mr. Wells referred to it as BTU analysis, and the idea that we're going to mandate and make it more expensive is also not accurate because The whole concept here is that we're not looking at just the initial cost.
We're looking at cost savings over time, so you're reducing consumption and therefore... And my understanding is that the state is fully behind the idea that these energy efficiency Concepts that are built into this ordinance are gonna save you money over time. So, I don't see it as a fossil fuel ordinance and I think it was intentionally designed that way It's an energy efficiency ordinance, and I think that This, I mean if we vote to go to a second reading that doesn't mean that it gets adopted at a second reading.
But there have been a number of opportunities for community to come out and say you know don't do this to us. You know we hate this idea. We've had very few people come out in opposition to it I am, you know, I'm fully tuned into the idea that if the community wants to come out for the next reading of it. If you want to propose a special meeting for people to do that, I am not opposed to that and I also am not opposed to Lucas coming back to us and saying, this is the amount of time I need for a rollout.
If we're saying 60 days and you're thinking to yourself, I sure would like to have 90 or... I mean, I want to hear your reasons for that and I hope you're not gonna delay us too long but We are so far behind what Europe is doing in terms of addressing energy efficiency and climate. And I think that this is not a huge measure, and it's not a painful measure for anybody.
Mr. Whitman, let me reply to you. I agree with almost everything you said, and I'm trying to express I like the idea, but I also kind of express that I believe that the community communication has not been sufficient. So it's simply that and so if we were to build some time in where we are not just having a town hall at some time, but I would like to actually reach out to people including, and I realize it's new, but just some other cities to say can we learn from your rollout? You know what have you, that kind of thing my opinion is We are well-served to go a little more slow, especially when the stakes are so low. A project like this, then I think we gain a lot by involving the community. Yes?
4:33 – 4:3914 turns
And at the same time because this doesn't impact that many people, you know talking about 12 projects per year To me, it doesn't seem like that would warrant an entire community-wide another meeting. Because like Councilmember Whitman said this we're not eliminating anybody's ability to have a gas stove or gas water heaters anything like that And this would really, the main people who would need to be a part of a community meeting would actually be the contractors.
Like Mr. Columet said, we're talking about primarily local contractors because most of the LA-based contractors are going to be working on fire, on the LA fires. So really I think if we did pass this tonight We could have a communications meeting. We could have some kind of resources available for contractors in this area that they would be the ones who would be working with residents and helping them communicate what needs to be done there, but I think having another community discussion Number one, sets us back in terms of working with engineers. It doesn't allow us to take advantage of the grant that we received and so basically if we want to maximize the influence of that grant and of our work with the CPA doing this sooner rather than later actually makes sense And it doesn't have that much of an impact on that many people in the community.
Well, if I might suggest, I think we're at the stage where we're trying to talk each other into going our way. So I might propose that somebody offer a vote and if you want us now... Let's say hypothetically, you say let's approve it. Let's say hypothetically it does not get approved, hypothetically? Then I would offer a motion to say, I would like to take this back and work with staff to solicit more input. That would be my motion after that. If it doesn't pass, and then it would come back at a future date. Just heads
up. So I just have kind of a pretty quick question. If we vote to move forward to a second reading, approximately what date would be, you know, would we be looking at having that second reading?
Under the standard protocols, if it's introduced tonight then it comes to consent next time or second reading. Obviously you don't get pulled off consent. I'm
proposing not consent because I'm suggesting that the feedback could tailor and possibly refine hopefully improve the ordinance so
it would not be that. If the improvements are significant anything more than minor changes then it has to be reintroduced. So it would come back then, well if it was introduced tonight we would ask the council if you want to modify the standard process to come back for a discussion again that'd have to be agendized as reintroduction. That's I mean we could not do it of course that's up
to the council but that's my intention.
So, I don't want to interrupt you Rachel if you were ready to make a motion. But my motion would be that we take a vote tonight on a first reading And then if it passes, we instead of setting it for two weeks from now, we set it for 30 days from now. And I you know, if there's a desire to generate...
There's a minimum, not a maximum. So the Council could set it to return for a second reading on discussion in 30 days, mindful that at that meeting you'll have two options—three options. Not adopt it, adopt it as it reads then or with minor modifications, or introduce it again with major modifications which would have to then come back a third time.
Because I just want to ask one quick question, which is it sounds like there's some fear or just concern, better word. That if it's not passed tonight that it won't get past the month of now with more feedback? Did I hear you correctly? You said maybe if it comes back later and we don't pass it tonight, it might not be enough.
I'm...you know until I hear a significant concern and feedback that we shouldn't adopt this and I haven't heard that Thank you. You know, my thought is we should move forward with this. I'm willing to slow it down that extra two weeks to get more time to bring people in if that, you know, to recruit people to come into our public session or if you're concerned about the idea that people get three minutes to talk and you'd like to see them have the chance to talk longer do a public workshop.
I personally believe that the workshop is necessary, so I would leave that up to you and your colleagues to say hey, let's get this going. But my proposal would be Thank you very much. Oh, and Matt, correct me if I'm wrong. You know what? I'm with you and I very rarely read the whereas's very closely until we get to the final reading
but... It's like 10 times longer than it needs to be is making a lot of clean. But anyway, I would say then put it to the vote and let's see what happens.
Did I give you enough of...?
Can I jump in real quick? So 30 days is your goal setting meeting. Do you want to do this on the same night?
4:39 – 4:4522 turns
I do still think one of the questions is about mandating, about requiring people to do this. That's one of the major questions for me. If I'm going to require someone to do something, is this what I'm going to require them to do? Or am I going to require them to do fire hardening? That is the big question to me. Not whether or not this is a valuable thing to do but am I going to require two new things, permits When you do a remodel of 300 square feet or more, or not. And I'm not comfortable taking both of those steps and if it's a question between energy efficiency and fire hardening, I'm going to vote that the new code deal with fire hardening And to me, it's not even a question because the real existential threat to Ojai tomorrow is fire.
And so you know and that's what I have heard over and over and over again. And I think that we would have The public behind us 100% to do that, and I think it would look like we were actually taking the possible existential threat that could happen tomorrow seriously. So, once again that conflict remains with me and I come to the point where I'm not willing to mandate two. I am willing to mandate one new building code kind of requirement for improvement and that's going to be fire hardening it has to be for me. It may
come in the future
but then it comes that we now have mandated two
I don't know how to solve your conflict. I'm happy to introduce a different motion if you feel
that one will
pass.
Well, I mean there's been a question raised about so mine includes a 30-day time frame for the second vote and so you'd prefer 45 days?
Well, I just think that you guys are going to be pretty consumed at that meeting 30 days from now. And I'd like
for you to be able to put anything else on it.
I'm trying to avoid that. Yeah.
So what? I'm going to modify my motion to make it a second reading hearing in 45 days.
Roll-call vote Failed 2–2 Motion understood. Roll call. · 1 under review
Show transcript
motion fails.
So I'd like to introduce a motion that working with staff is reach out to the community and get more feedback and probably along the same kind of time frame but after our goal setting to come back with more data and to bring this back one more time with more community input. That's my motion.
Like a friendly amendment?
Yes
here. I'm bringing it back to the same question. I would like a sort of value judgment on the outreach. Do you support, would you support two? you know, to building code adjustments. And in other words what I want to do is give the outreach and the folks that you talked to the possibility of saying this is more important to me. I want to know if both are what the public wants or if it is indeed an either-or And I think that can also be part of our goal-setting agenda at some point. What are we willing to do? I'm happy
to respond. I would say, I'm happy to ask that question and have that conversation. And also, I suspect that once we start introducing some new items on the agenda, that might end up emerging as time goes on, as an initiative. So I'm happy to ask that. So you're seconding that?
Yes.
Okay, shall we? Mr. Montgomery?
Yes.
Councilmember- Unless there's something to say. Do you have a comment?
Just could you read the motion again please?
Roll-call vote Moved by Andy Gilman
Show transcript
4:45 – 4:5025 turns
So, I mean that's a specific amendment but it would be the larger principle seems to me is not the either or question. That's not the goal of it but it's to solicit all the affected parties as much as we can related to the ordinance to have a more refined publicly influenced ordinance asking priority questions such as that.
I feel like we're talking, there are two different things. There's this ordinance and I don't see them as being mutually exclusive like the fire hardening and I don't see the need for a survey it to me it's like there's this and then there's that
I hear what you're saying. Mr. Wells, come in please. Give us the short version so it's
I'll just remind you that you have a Climate Action Plan that's also in the works, and that's a place where you could address fire hardening. I'll also remind you that the funding that I have to help you is for this energy efficiency decarbonization effort. I don't have funding to help you with an ordinance related to fire hardening as much as I think it's a good idea. No thank
you. Thanks for that. Council Member Rule, you want to ask that question.
I want to ask a priority question. That's all. We had a very difficult time with the Reach Code. We got a lot of bad press around the Reach Code, we got bad press about mandating it, we got bad press about not pulling it once the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, you know, shot it down. We didn't do anything. So we have some mud around this issue and that's also something that kind of concerns me. I'm with you. That's part of the intention. Yeah.
And I think the intention...I don't believe it to be an either or. I think perhaps adding something to the building code might be an either-or. I don't know if it would be a both.
Mr. Montgomery, can you read the motion as you?
To work with staff to solicit more community input asking priority questions and to return after goal setting session.
Can I just jump in so I'm thinking we're just returning with the feedback. I'm not rewriting this
Well, here's a hypothetical now. I'm hoping that as more people are addressed and spoken with they might say something like oh if you added this A to U wise or X Y & Z then we'd say oh that is a really good idea. So that's feedback? That's feedback to incorporate.
So that's feedback but I wouldn't be taking what I don't want to do. You're not writing
it into the ordinance
Right, I don't want to take the feedback and assume that I should be tinkering with the words. I want to give you the words. Here's what we got. What do you want me to do with it? And I mean, I might be a little prickly here but I'm a little concerned about getting the feedback asking the priority questions. I don't know that you might want to clarify.
Okay, so
what does that mean? I think if you want to respond to that, sorry, just direct. If you want us to ask that question we can ask that question. Part of the feedback you could gather is Are you receptive to two mandates, one related to fire hardening and one related to energy efficiency? Yes or no. We could ask that
question. I hear that. The difficulty seems to me is that you have something concrete in this ordinance and you don't have something concrete in the fire hardening yet so it's more abstract on the second side. I mean we know mostly but we don't have it in front of us. So, I guess... You
could model something that would be similar to energy efficiency. You know? I mean you could model something like...
It just feels premature to do it.
Well, I know but we got where we got because we didn't think we were going to be here.
Can I raise a question? So, to me, we're doing a whole priority setting workshop and perhaps that would be the community... Perhaps we could just have this come back for a second reading Getting all of us getting the community input we need and we could address the fire hardening conversation, the energy efficiency conversation during the priority setting workshop.
The meeting before this one.
Maybe then tell me if I'm on the right track here. I'm happy to withdraw my motion and say we'll get priority feedback at our workshop and come back at a later date.
So, but I think you and the Mayor Pro Tem are saying different things. The Mayor Pro Tem is saying let's go ahead and move forward with the first read.
I'm not saying
that. Okay so you guys are saying different things?
Yeah no I'm not saying that. I am saying I want to vote.
4:51 – 4:5645 turns
I am willing to withdraw the idea of an either or, but basically we say that the community has had plenty of time to feedback on this. I did not know that we were going to have an ordinance at that meeting I'm sorry. I mean, I heard we were going to put something on the consent calendar about the Clean Power Alliance to get some sort of information about this and the next thing I know, we're at an ordinance. So maybe I missed the memo really quite possible.
It's eleven o'clock. We
can withdraw the priority and then we're OK?
We can withdraw the priority, but it's a priority to me to understand priorities.
It is a priority for me too. OK, so I agree with the amendment
I'm sorry, I'm gonna ask for the motion to be read one more
time.
With that deletion motion is to work with staff to solicit more community input for feedback and return after goal-setting with that feedback.
That's it? Okay.
Mayor Pro Tem Lange?
Yes.
Council Member Rule?
Yes
Mayor Gilman? Yes Council Member Mang? Yes Council Member Whitman? Yes Motion passes
And so now that we're at 11 o'clock, can we move the current item four, new items six, the traffic motorcycle officer to the fourth?
I think you're going to have to.
No, no. I mean, I just want to say it like let's do it and let's do it on the fourth.
And then the cost model and the motorcycle
officer
are going to the fourth along with the other. Right.
I know. And I have a whole list of things I want to bring up as new items that I know other people do too. I'm also happy to do that next week
Can I offer a suggestion in that area? What I think you should do, not you Mayor but all of you should do is just wait to your goal setting session because let's say you come up with five to ten goals. That's really what you should be working on and then at that point you can decide hey should I bring out my new items or should I pull back or whatever.
There are subsets of the bigger category there's a lot that's related to fire. So those
are tactics that would roll up into a goal exactly
I just have a question. So with the goal-setting meeting, is it possible? Can we see the previous council what their goals were and maybe there's... It
wasn't finished and so you can go, I can give you the adopted budget they just came up with some general goals but we never finished the process. We didn't have tactics that rolled up to it or anything.
There's
a picture
of
the board with
art. I wasn't that impressed with what
I'll show you in the budget where they are. So what
we're going to do, just real quick and I know this is not on the agenda but in this survey I'm gonna suggest some pretty typical things that cities see for goals. Fiscal stability, emergency preparedness
Fire hardening, energy efficiency, affordable housing. I'm going to probably come up with like ten things that you and then allow so and then people can prioritize that but then they can also add in things that aren't in there
okay
and then we'll bring that back.
I mean I want to get to there's one thing that I just want to suggest because they're here it's simply this it would be that the fire safe counts that I would like to direct the staff to work with fire safe council to The adopted wildfire protection plan that this former council adopted, they're prepared to make at least a proposal on services to be offered. So if you feel that's premature we could wait a little while. If it's premature okay.
Definitely make that part of the goal setting and that's a potential tactic.
Okay I'm fine with that. Council member reports? Anybody?
No, I'm about to make a motion to adjourn. I
just want to thank the staff for including the fire
information in here and for being on top of everything that's my report
I've got kind of a quick report, and that is that I did go to the hearings that were held probably two weeks ago by the Air Force in terms of the SpaceX. And there was no real presentation. There were some people there to answer questions But they did allow you to fill out forms. And I did say that the booms are like causing a percussion type of event here in Ojai, and it is potentially damaging people and homes.
Yeah,
cool.
Oh wait, give us a super fast version. Meeting adjourned.