Ojai City Council Regular Meeting

Mr. Summers, please report out of the closed session.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. The council met in closed session considered item number one regarding industry litigation provided comments to staff and council and took no reportable action. The council did not consider item number two regarding initiation of litigation that will be continued to a future meeting. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Summers. So the closed session is over.

Was any vote taken? Was any motion made?

No reportable action was taken.

And would you consider a vote to be a reportable action?

No reportable action was taken.

I understand, but my question to you is, is the vote considered a reportable action as a city attorney? I have a right to ask the city attorney that question.

The outcome of some votes is reportable action. No reportable action was taken.

So... I'm hearing him say this one doesn't qualify

as that. Right, yeah, no, I understand what he's saying. Believe me, I understand what he's saying so I'm going to make one other statement Because I think it's important. As I indicated to my fellow council members, I have an unequivocal right to be in that session. I walked out of that session hoping to give them the chance to actually work something through.

They were unable to do that so this is from the FPPC. A public official may make, participate in making and influence a governmental decision about whether he or she will be provided with the defense or indemnification for damages where the agency is obliged to provide the defense and indemnification if the public official was acting with the scope of his or her employment. This has been information since June of 2023 that I've been given by the city attorney the exact opposite.

Ms. Rule, please let me just point out one thing. If any of us bring up subtle legal arguments that we want to just read we all know that there's opinions on both sides so I hear what you're saying but it's making a statement of which there can be no rebuttal so this seems like the wrong place for that

Well, except for the opposite of the statement has been made many, many, many times and has forced me to recuse myself. And I do not have a forum in any other place to speak about what is going on here. I'm glad you hear me because I'm talking and it's just one grave injustice after another, one wasted opportunity after another. And i think i have a right to know I will find a second vote and we will have another indemnification, and I will refuse to leave based on an FPPC advice letter. And all that simply means is- I mean, I gave you guys the opportunity to figure this out, and you did not figure it out. You were not able to follow the law as in the case so many times.

Ms. Rule, I want us to get on with the rest of parts of our meeting. This is one part of many parts.

OK, one part of many parts of all the things that we

have to

consider. You're the presiding officer and

then let's

do well. I will accede to that.

Thank you. So I'm going to close the closed session and I'm going to open the open session. OK? Mr. Montgomery, please roll

Sure, Mayor. We could do this now or I could do it during public comment but if you'd like to do it now- Oh, I misunderstood. Go ahead. Okay. Thank you, Mayor. Ms. Christy Billings would you please come to the podium? I'd like to introduce Ms. Billings to the council and to the community. Ms Billings is our new interim finance director. It was her idea to come down here tonight she wanted to make sure that you all knew who she was and the community got to see her face and she even gave me the courtesy of a little bit of background which I'm just going to take a moment to read So tonight, one of the actions on your agenda, Ms. Billings is a retired CalPERS annuitant. So as you're going to hear in a moment she has a long career in finance and so we're asking you to comply with CalPERS regulations and allow us to bring her on board in this retired CalPERS annuitant capacity.

So Christy, Ms. Billings has served in local government finance for 35 years and she retired in October of 2023 from the City of Agoura Hills. Just a little bit of her background, she was the Director of Finance for Agour Hills for 15 years and she also previously served as Deputy Director of Finance for the city of Camarillo. She is actively involved in the California Society of Municipal Finance Officers, which is the industry organization and has served in several board positions. She's a graduate of UC Santa Barbara. She resides in Camarillo and when she isn't doing numbers she likes to travel especially visiting her new granddaughter in Florida. So I'd just like to give Ms. Billings a couple moments to say hello and then thank you Mayor for this opportunity.

I want to say hello and thank you, Honorable Mayor, members of the City Council. Thanks for the opportunity to serve the citizens. Although I retired in 2023, I love helping out local government. Ojai is a jewel in Ventura County and I'm really enjoying getting to know the staff and I'm honored to work with them so thank you. I look forward to assisting the city of Ojai.

Thank you. Nice to meet you. Thank you very much. Thank you.

Oh gosh

there we go

All right. Thank you so much, members of Council. My name is Ron Solorzano. I am the Regional Librarian for the Ojai Valley and I mostly wanted to come to talk about an upcoming event that's happening this Saturday at the library. This is one that we've been planning for a while. I talked about it last time I was here We're going to have Certified Master Gardener Dani Bruchius visiting the Ojai Library at 2 p.m. on Saturday, March 15th. She's going to be delivering a timely talk on firewise living called From Structure to Landscape.

This is a practical workshop that's going to be equipping homeowners with essential skills to reduce wildfire risks. Participants will learn strategies for creating defensible space around structures including vegetation management, landscaping techniques and home modification approaches. The course is going to cover fire-resistant landscaping principles, structural hardening methods and emergency preparedness to protect homes in wildfire prone regions.

So yeah that's happening on Saturday! We also have... we actually just had a lot of other programs But we also have our ongoing slate of programming and events at the Ojai Library, our Ukulele Club on Mondays, Storytime on Wednesday mornings. We have Fiber Arts & Crafts on Sundays. We have our Enrichment Center Monday through Thursday after school at 2 p.m., and just a whole lot of other stuff going on. So I encourage you to check out what we're doing. If you have any questions, you can always reach out to me or visit our website at www.vencolibrary.org That's it, and thank you so much. Thank you

Mr. Slandino Mika Sitting, Joel Fox and Starchild. It's Micah. Thank

you. Sorry about that. Hi, my name is Micah Satig. I live over in Leslie's district over on Drown and thank you for letting me speak tonight First of all, I want to say congrats up. I've been here for like 10 years in Ojai. I'm not a local I moved here And my daughter's gone to school here and I worked at a couple different schools here And it's my first time attending City Council meeting. I always watch it on YouTube But you all sound much better at normal speed, not 2x speed. I want to say congratulations to Mayor Gilman. Ever since you've become the mayor, the council has gotten more cooperative and just a better tone overall. So good job to you. Oh, I have like a grab bag. Let me speak real quick on some things. I might talk about some things that are on the agenda very briefly because I can't stay for the whole time.

Good job working with the Parks and Recreation Commission. Please get that done. It's been two years almost. Please work with the school district, especially on the aquatic center. The school district is doing lots of cool stuff. Their board works really well together and I think the city can take advantage of that and there should be more communication between the two.

Watch out for the Becker Group. They're developers, and I'm not sure they always have the best interest of Ojai in mind, so say that, and Ventura as well. And then I know you're gonna talk about priorities, City Council priorities. Please make housing a priority, and not just rental housing but like housing for long-term for people. So that's it, thank you.

Thank you very much. Joel Fox, Starchild, and then Brenda Kraft.

Hello, folks. I'm here representing the 4th of July Planning Committee and I was intending to come when you're discussing the question of drones but it's unclear if it's on the schedule. I've been watching your agendas. Anyway, I decided to share some information. The 4th of July Planning Committee has looked into drones in the past and that would work fine I think with the committee, that's no problem.

But they're significantly more expensive so some women approached us with the idea that y'all could pitch in and actually help pay for that. That could work. This year we're already well on our way. Like, we've already got the fireworks going and stuff like that so it's something to consider. It is a significant commitment though because if we do switch to drones and let's say the next year there isn't money you know like it's probably just a ballpark around $100,000 a year probably the city would have to put forth for that?

If we do lose our place in line with the fireworks group, we probably couldn't get it back. That's the kind of thing. So once there is this commitment, it needs to be a really solid commitment. I don't know if you all go to the fireworks. We've been doing it for over 60 years, so there's people who go there with their children who are there with their grandchildren. There's thousands of people come. It's a really important thing for people and it's such an amazing community on the Nordoff Field. I think it's a really fantastic thing and one of the most intimate Ojai experiences.

I joined the committee because I like fireworks, and I think they're really one of my favorite art forms. And I wanted to try to elevate it even more. But I'm happy with drones too as long as it just doesn't end because again, it's one of these few things we have in Noai that are still going. And if you have any more questions, you can ask me. I'll be here. I'm trying to think what other stuff that's important here.

It might have been underneath the – tonight I was told maybe it would be under a fire thing. I just want to say that there – fire isn't – I don't consider it a really big risk with this. I know it scares dogs and there's environmental concerns, but the Ventura Fire Chief or whatever, she loves coming every year. We have fire trucks and there isn't really a lot of records. There's lots of fireworks that start fires but they're not professional fireworks and so I don't really think that's an issue so much. That includes the thing is scaring dogs, PTSD for veterans all those things aren't really focused on those 20 minutes. It's really about the, you know, all week long and things like that so anyway I'm out of time I think but if you have any questions I'll be here thank you.

Could I ask a quick question? So what I understood you to say was that if you were to stop the fireworks and move to a drone we should commit long-term to the drone because once you lose the contract with the fireworks company it's much harder to reactivate something You heard probably the most

important part. Exactly, exactly. So it's just a really serious commitment. Thank you very much. I

have one more follow-up question and that is when do you need to know from us a decision in order to make sure that we're ready for this 4th of July? You're saying next 4th?

Can I jump in really quick, Council? You do have a goal-setting item on the agenda and I do believe there are probably one or two proposed goals where you could have a tactic that relates to what Mr. Fox has been talking about and I'd recommend for a more thoughtful discussion if Mr. Fox is willing to hang out for a little bit during then because I know that there's lots of questions. Sure,

can

I just

talk about later

then? Yeah, absolutely! Thank you so much.

Thanks. Thanks for being flexible. Starchild, Brenda Kraut, and then Sousa Francina

Why wasn't Leslie allowed to be in the closed session meeting that you just had for two hours? That's an important question for me because Leslie is my council member and she represents me, and when she's in the room I know that my interests are represented. And when she's not in the room who's representing me? I don't understand why Leslie isn't allowed to be in the room And Council Member Whitman is allowed to be in the room.

I personally think both should be allowed in the room because both of their districts deserve representation, but Council Member Whitman has already made a statement in the Byrne v. Rule lawsuit, it's one that was mostly struck by Judge Coates and it's one that Judge Coates ruled misrepresented a letter from the district attorney to this council. Mr. Whitman seems to be conflicted at least in that aspect.

How many lawyers were in the closed session meeting that we just had? I counted two. Were there three? Were there more? How many thousand dollars an hour is the city paying for lawyers to give advice to part of this council, not the whole part? How much is that costing? How much time are we spending on this Byrne v. Rule lawsuit? It sounds like we're gonna continue item number two from the closed session about the two lawsuits that we're not 100% sure what they are, and it sounds like also we're gonna continue item number one.

Are we gonna invite multiple lawyers to the next closed session meeting? How many closed session meetings are we gonna have What are we not doing while we're talking endlessly in closed sessions? Are we not fixing the roads? Are we not covering potholes? I talked to my neighbors and I asked them, what's important to you? City politics. And last weekend I heard from a constituent of Councilmember Whitman who told me how embarrassed he is by this city council.

It's not the first time that I've heard that from citizens. And I think it's finally time that we concentrate on the important things in this city and that we move past all this strife, and that you work together and not separately. And you become—and you are good stewards of the public money and the public trust.

Thank you, Starchild. Brenda Kraut, Susa Francina, and then Bill Miley.

I just wanted to express my disappointment that you have pulled the indemnification of Leslie Rule from this agenda again. I mean, I'm a taxpayer, a long-time

taxpayer. I'm sorry.

I am a long time taxpayer here in Ojai and I'm tired of you spending all this money on attorneys. that you should be listening to and understanding the law in front of you, that all of you would like implemented and enacted to defend each one of you if you were in Leslie's position for any reason of your actions on this council. So, I mean, I think that it's a disgrace to this whole Council that you have let this go on so long and that you are segregating the person within your body. You need to be working as a cohesive group not fighting, infighting. And you're spending my money doing it.

If you want to spend your own personal money to do all this bickering, go ahead and do it. Leave our tax money out of it. Maybe it doesn't make any difference when you look at an attorney's bill like I saw on the last check register for $81,000. Maybe that doesn't bother you because it's not coming out of your personal checking account. Well, it bothers me because I know it's coming out of my taxes.

So please consider that and get this item taken care of. Thank you.

Thank you Ms. Kraut. Sousa Francina, Bill Miley and John Drucker

I mostly agree with the previous speakers and I want the public... Am I okay with this mic? So, I want to make clear to the public that I was in favor of indemnifying Councilwoman Leslie Rule from the very beginning. And I want to read to you a letter that she wrote to former City Manager James Vega May 3rd 2023 Very simple. Please accept this letter as a former request to ask the City of Ojai to indemnify me under Government Code 825 against the lawsuit filed by Sabrina Venskas and Brian Ockrey, Brinton v. Rule.

Please note I would like this request considered in an open session, and I see no legitimate reason for it to be held from the public. The following month in June, we had an open session. At that session, at the very end—it's all on tape—I asked Sabrina Venskus to come to the podium and I asked her how does this serve the community? How does this serve the public? And she didn't answer. She left the podium. And people are still wondering How does this waste of money serve the public? At the beginning of the closed session, a taxpayer member of the public came to the podium and she believes still to this moment after two years that if Leslie Councilwoman Leslie Rule is not indemnified it somehow saves the taxpayers' money. She repeatedly said that We should not be paying for Council Member Leslie Rule to break the law.

And, Leslie, it was pointed out that a judge in the Superior Court found that she did not break the law and the public has to understand that this is costing way, way more, not only taxpayer money but the valuable time of five council members' staff It's a waste of time and money. I went through this nightmare, for those that don't know, I was on the City Council 12 years. I went through this nightmare last year. Every closed session was like a bad dream that just didn't end. You know, we hired another law firm to tell us nothing It is an embarrassment, the amount of taxpayer money that we are wasting. And I hope to God this is resolved in public soon. Thank you.

Thank you Ms. Mancina. Bill Miley and then John Drucker.

Hello. I have three comments. I am surprised the city manager is hiring people who already have retired and are now taking a new job, a second job. I am sure there are well-qualified people who are working their first job and may be looking for another move or looking to come to Ojai. I also wonder if the public knows the salary of the Director of Finance. It's up to $250,000.

Second item, I like the Becker Group. This has to do with indemnification. With a process of indemnification apparently agreed upon, the city decides to make an offer And I know that wasn't voted on, so it's not official or a policy. Yet City Administration was authorized to seek outside counsel for that offer, implying as I understand it we want to settle.

I had a lot more to say if it was on the agenda With the city offer made public for identification, it seems that you're acknowledging that council member Rule as an elected official should be identified. I read the state codes regarding government officials and employees being protected from civil suits claiming injury, Government Code 825. Third paragraph, exceptions to the duty to indemnify or provide a defense include, this is quote, when the employee acts with fraud, corruption and actual malice.

The ultimate outcome of the civil suit seems to be irrelevant under the law. And I don't see any fraud, any corruption or actual malice. Just kind of confusion.

Thank you Mr. Miley. John Drucker.

Good evening John Drucker for myself. I want to say that I just echo the comments of Starchild, Brenda, Sousa and Bill In fact, Bill the other day wrote me an email saying I've read Government Code Section 825.2 and it seems very clear that the obligation to indemnify Leslie is absolute. And I wrote him back and I said, you just accomplished in one paragraph what a firm that the city paid $117,000 could not reach on its own.

I told him perhaps to send a bill to the city for $200,000 because it was so much more worthwhile. All I want to say is that I'm disappointed that this meeting is not being held openly because in open session, I feel it's the only possible way that you might get something other than the bad advice that you've been getting so far in closed session. Meyers Knave undertook an assignment under Government Code 825 and then ignored it, and analyzed it under 995. Didn't read half of 995 anyway but came to the wrong conclusion for which the city has paid $117,000.

Moreover, I would like to request that Matt Summers recuse himself in the future on all matters involving anything to do with the Byrne v. Rule lawsuit because it was he who created the closed session statements that got this whole ball rolling. It was his negligent policing of the closed sessions that compounded the problem. It was he who shouted Leslie down incorrectly It was he who suggested to the previous council that the council sue Leslie, and now he has a profound conflict of interest in the desire for Leslie to lose because it would vindicate all of his previous mistakes.

As for the repeated, once again failure to indemnify Leslie tonight all I can tell you is that you're playing with fire. Thank you.

Thank You Mr. Drucker. Mr. Montgomery anything online?

Yes, Mayor. We currently have one raised hands but I'm speaking to our Zoom participants now. We are taking general public comment. Please raise your hand now. First we'll have Larry Steingold, now followed by Clay Creasy. Larry you have the floor. All

right thank you good evening. Everybody thinks it's funny but you people are spending more goddamn money than this city has on lawyers, on advice from the same lawyer who's making more money giving you more advice to do the same thing. How much money is going to be pushed away and thrown away because you can't come to a deal? All right? This is absurd. We have roads that need to get paved We've got services that need to get funded. We have priorities.

A month ago, somebody showed up with a petition for 250 names that we don't have a police officer and their big thing was oh, we need money for the arts, we need money for fire hardening, we'd need money for all these other priorities and you chose a police officer. That was a good thing. Okay but now It's not your money. You're not being good stewards, okay? This is not good. Two of you, three of you don't want to settle it?

Fine. Stand up, tell us which ones you are and tell us why and don't do it in closed session. Do you not have enough character to say hey I don't want a payer Okay, we know—I'm assuming Mr. Whitman doesn't want to pay her. I got that. Who else doesn't want to pay? Raise your hand. Have the courage to do that and go tell your constituents that you want to keep going and spending money.

At least have the courage to do that. It doesn't take that much effort. Okay, you campaigned about transparency and honesty and bringing all this wonderful things to the City Council. And yet you're doing the same thing. So it doesn't take a lot of viewing by people on either side of the deal to watch the money go down the chute to save somebody's ego or to protect somebody's legal rear end because of something some lawyer suggested, or whatever. But the people are fed up, okay?

And then I'd like to ask a question that I guess you're... and I'll just leave it at that and wait for another agenda. So thank you very much.

Thank you Mr. Tengel.

Our last raised hand currently is Clay Creasy. Mr. Creasy, you have the floor. Mr. Creasy, I've given you the opportunity to unmute. You may speak now. Looks like we're having technical difficulties. I see Mr. Creasy's unmuted. We'll give you one last chance here and we'll have to move on there.

Okay, that's the end of the public communications. I'd like to move on to the consent calendar. Mr. Mayor before we do so...

Please go. I'm sorry may I make a couple just clarifications from what you said just for council awareness? Absolutely. One item discussed was the Aquatics Center and in the Nordhoff Pool and I just wanted Council in the community debate to be aware That the city and Unified School District are discussing public use at that facility. And we're trying to figure out how to make that a reality, and we will be coming back to the council Once we have something so that we can share that information, but that's in the midst. Thank you another item I want to clarify The city will be opening a public and open recruitment for the full-time finance director position The city does not hire retired CalPERS annuitants to fill positions permanently that is prohibited by the government code and law in California So Ms.

Billings is serving in an interim capacity, but we will be launching an open recruitment in short order. Also the top step for the salary range for finance director just like all of the director positions at the city is 2016 annually not 2050 that is the city manager's salary range.

Thank you Mr. Harvey. Moving on to the consent calendar do I have a motion to approve or does somebody want to pull anything out of consent?

I'll move to approve the consent calendar.

I'll second. Any discussion? Mr. Montgomery.

Ready, Mayor. Council Member Mang.

Yes.

Mayor Pro Tem Lang. Yes! Mayor Gilman. Yes Council Member Whitman. Yes. Council Member Rule. Yeah. Motion passes.

Okay so moving on to item number three City Council goals. Mr. Harvey

Boom, okay. Here we are. If I could ask Mr. Montgomery to please share his screen. I'm going to propose something to the Council and you could, as our Assistant City Attorney says, trash it or treasure it. This is just a concept. I've only received from—I know you've all been very busy. The mayor gave me a list of his proposed tactics to go with the goals. I know this does not necessarily reflect the sentiment of the entire City Council, But I thought perhaps this was a good starting point for this evening. I also want to throw out that, and you may remember me saying this at the start, goal setting sometimes takes a few sessions. And so if we need to come back one or two or even three more times to get it right, that's fine because you're putting together the work plan that you will function under for the entire time you're together and that's really crucial to get it right.

And I know that there are some people Some who may have spoken during the public comment portion, who may want to participate in this and some who are not here tonight. And so this is a process. So if... I don't know, let me just first do a head nod check. Is this concept of starting with just the mayor's tactics as a starting point acceptable? Or would you prefer a different approach where we go individually by goal and you all throw out your tactics either way?

Let me just add one tiny point. Which is this, those items when you're gonna see under each of those things I'm not saying let's do it. I'm saying let's investigate it and so they're from conversations we have had. It's me reaching out to the community so this is only a starting list to be determined. So even for example the drones that we talked about that's one that I actually wanted to add on there that I omitted but that doesn't mean let's do it. It means let's figure it out just as we would any item.

So, I suggest that we go goal by goal and we all comment on tactics including the ones by the mayor that I think probably at this point all of us are in that position where we're saying let's get some feedback from staff about you know Whether this is a feasible way to approach this, with the idea that we'll reach some reasonable point in time and suspend our goal-setting period of time so that we can finish our agenda. So I don't know what the reasonable amount of time is but I'll suggest 45 minutes?

That sounds reasonable.

Okay, and Mr. Montgomery are you prepared to edit and add as we go? Okay very good. Sorry.

So I came prepared with some tactics to add to the list so if as we go one by one yeah I'd like to have this be a brainstorming session.

Great anybody have an objection to this approach it's okay Council Member Rule. Great, good with you? Okay okay all right well let's start the first and sorry let me just add one more thing these are the nine proposed goals you came up with last time you don't have to keep these right you could change the wording you could add one you could remove one that's it's all on the table as we go on this journey so this is just in a working document

One quick question. What's not clear to me is when the public comments make sense, since we'll be brainstorming this stuff. Normally we'd ask questions of you. It seems like that's where we are right now. I only have one public comment in front of me. We might take it and go forward,

but I'm open to your ideas. Well, your colleagues should go first. I have my own ideas.

Oh no, right. So if everybody were to go and then we were to take any public comments?

I think that would make the most sense because then you'd have a baked cake if you will somewhat and then you... Right. That should be good.

At least half-baked. Are we

okay with that? With the understanding that some of the public comment that you receive may ensue a little bit of an additional discussion where you want to tweak or add, right? Great. Sound good? Okay, great. So let's just go for it. Affordable housing... I'm not going to read to everybody unless somebody cannot read what's on the screen. Everybody read what's on the screen?

Okay, let's blow it up a little bit. Okay so I will for the benefit of the audience and sorry everybody you have to listen to me talk a lot. These are Mayor Gilman's proposed starting tactics number one research slash establish a housing trust number two annual financial contribution to help with Ojai for rental assistance slash needs as determined Number three, research expanding Whispering Oaks. Number four, partner with Ojai Unified School District on affordable housing for staff at downtown property and or build affordable housing on city land. Number five, creation of a Housing Commission addressing affordable housing and homelessness.

Just one quick question for clarification item number four affordable is that affordable the same as workforce housing?

That's an excellent question. It can be, but I would say if Councilwoman Mang, that's a... I would probably add that detail. Affordable either slash workforce or affordable and or something like that. I think that's really important. Absolutely.

They're having that discussion at the school district.

Yeah.

No, that is a good clarification. I like that.

And at this stage it may be better to preserve flexibility between affordable and workforce because that taps into more grant opportunities