Ojai City Council Regular Meeting

commission reports? None received tonight, ma'am. Thank you. And then our city manager's report.

We just did that. Yeah. No problem.

We'll be

done being,

this'll be a quick night, huh? How many

fingers am I holding up? I'm kidding. Okay, Mayor, thank you for the City Manager's Report. I would like to turn things over to our Human Resources and Risk Manager, Ms. Kathy Holman, who has a two-part update, one pertaining to the City Attorney recruitment, and one pertaining to our trolley driver recruitment effort. So, Ms. Holman, thank you.

So the City Attorney RFQ update. Pursuant to your direction, an RFQ for City Attorney Services was opened on May 19th and closed as scheduled on July 3rd. We are pleased to inform you that a total of five proposals were received by the deadline. To allow ample time for your review and evaluation, copies of all five submissions will be distributed to you shortly. We encourage you to review these documents thoroughly prior to our upcoming discussion. We have scheduled a closed session discussion regarding these proposals for August 12th, and the session will provide you an opportunity to discuss the submissions in detail and determine our next steps.

Thank you. Thank you.

And for the trolley update. We continue to see a strong interest in the trolley driver position. We've actively been posting the positions online, on online job boards, social media sites, and we recently placed an ad on the trolley itself. However, we are still facing some challenges in getting drivers hired. A key one we've encountered is that candidates are not consistently completing the full application process. and I'm actively working with our Talent Acquisition Partner to streamline that process to make it easier for the candidates to complete it.

Another challenge is that candidates are looking for full-time employment. Currently, positions are part-time, non-benefited positions. So that's a challenge to overcome. We do have two candidates currently in the background check process, and we hope that they will be onboarded very, very soon. We also have additional interviews scheduled this week, and I will continue to schedule interviews with interested candidates.

Thank

you. Thank you, Ms. Holman. Anything else? No, that's it, Mayor. Thank you.

There's something I forgot to say, which is we had a commissioner and a longtime Ojai person, Jamie Bennett, pass away, and I'm hoping that you'll indulge just having one moment of silence for him, somebody central to our city. Thank you and I will hope that their families definitely in our thoughts and prayers and I hope yours as well. You had something?

I forgot to do that. Would you like me to add that? Sorry. This is what happens when you come back from a little break. Welcome back, by the way. Thank you. So I want the Council and the community to know that we have a very cool, I didn't bring it with me, very cool pocket-sized map that is something that we purchased from a local artist and purveyor. It is at City Hall, and it gives you a great visual of downtown and the surrounding area, including local businesses.

This is independently produced. We thought it was very well done, and so we purchased some, and they are available, and I will put out a social media post just so people know more about it, including the name of the purveyor, which I've conveniently forgotten, but he's the skull guy. He's the guy who makes the clothing with all the skulls on the back. It's the same person. I can't remember his name, but you've seen his wares. Thank you.

He wears his wears.

And you'll see the stands all around town in Libbey Park. And so this is something that that is really, I think, something to celebrate.

Thank you. Anything else? That's it.

That's it. Thank you.

Thank you. Okay, so we'll move on to public communications. Now, just a reminder, these are communications for items not on the agenda. If you have written out a card for an agenda item, just let us know what item that is for and we'll move you to that. So I'll start with Ron Salarzano, Clay Creasy, and Alex. I see two people here. I see Alex and James. Is it a tag team in the three minute time? Great. Okay.

Alex and James.

Hello. All right. Hello, Members of Council. My name is Ron Solorzano. I am the Regional Librarian for the Ojai Valley, and I'm here one more time to plug our summer reading program, which is ongoing this summer. It's going to run through August 3rd, so there's still time to jump in. We already have hundreds and hundreds of children and adults participating in the reading program this year. For children, that looks like logging the minutes that they've read. When they register for the program, they receive a free book. When they read 500 minutes, they receive a second free book. And at 500 and 1,000 minutes, they receive first one and then two entries into an opportunity drawing for our grand prizes, which this year are two season passes to Universal Studios.

For the adults, they are logging the books that they read, and there's also a book bingo challenge that they can take part in for a small prize, and then the prizes for adults are going to be $50 gift cards to local restaurants here in Ojai. So in addition to all of that, we also have programs going on almost daily over at the Ojai Library in the afternoons. On Sunday, we're doing, if you're familiar with Shrinky Dinks, I honestly am not as familiar.

But it's a lot of fun, it's very popular. We have that going on on Sundays. On Mondays, we're doing some simple art, just doodle time. Tuesdays, we're doing our Perler Parties, which are always very popular. Those are the colored plastic beads. Wednesday, we have Paws for Reading with Therapy Dog, Radiant. And then we also are doing the STEAM Lab activities on Wednesdays.

Thursdays is a game day, and then Fridays are Lego days. And again, these programs will continue until the end of our summer reading program. So again, still time to join. You can visit our website, which is at www.vencolibrary.org. Thank you so much.

Clay Creasley, please, and then Alex and James, and then Eric Reiter.

Mayor and City Council, Clay Creasley, Ojai resident, number one, Mayor Gilman, let me echo your remembrance of Jamie Bennett. He was an extreme gentleman, a great supporter of many things in Ojai, and we will miss him. Our condolences to his wife. Tonight I want to talk briefly about the recent news in the Ojai Valley News where Dignity Moves announced the solicitation of statements of qualification from contractors who may be interested to bid on the Cabin Village project. That article on June 27th stated that such submissions needed to be made no later than July 1st, which of course was four days after the article.

In my opinion, this article fell far short of the notice that Dignity Moves is contractually bound to provide under the California Public Contract Code, Section 22037, per the Development Management Agreement they have with OHA. I immediately brought this issue to the attention of the City Manager and told him that Dignity Moves needed to amend their RFQ process to be in compliance with the law.

I also informed the Southwest Regional Compliance Manager for the Construction Industry Force Account Council A statewide organization that monitors compliance with the public contract code. That compliance manager affirmed that my opinion was correct, and he communicated this directly to the city in an email on Sunday, June 29th. Dignity Moves' only response, as far as I can tell, was to push the due date for their RFQ submission back six days to July 7th.

Unfortunately, this is still well short of compliance with the Code. In fact, the earliest date that Dignity Moves can legally require RFQ submissions is not currently known. What we do know is it wasn't July 1st and it wasn't July 7th. My best guess, personal guess, is that we're looking about July 25th at the earliest. Why do I bring this up? This is a financial issue, because limiting bidders is the way you increase project costs, and keeping the bidding open to all qualified bidders is the way you limit project costs. As Ojai taxpayers, we should be all interested in limiting this project, regardless of what we, limiting the cost of this project, regardless of what we think about the project itself.

So what are we to make of this situation? Dignity Moves is clearly a sophisticated outfit with professional legal counsel, so they are clearly not ignorant of the law. The only conclusion I can come to is they think they can just bully their way past all opposition. The laws apply to somebody else. Eighty years ago, George Orwell wrote that all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others.

I guess the current question is, is Dignity Moves more equal than the Construction Industry Force Account Council, or vice versa? My money is on vice versa. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Harvey, do you have any update on that, just for clarity?

So the notice is being reissued. I'm happy to hope. Thank you. Mr. Harvey was out when this occurred. So the notice is reissued and everything will be due on 7-25. They did receive some responses in the initial posting. They're going to just hang on to those until the period has ended, but all the notices have been reissued with the proper timeline.

Thank you.

No problem.

Alex and James Louis, please, Eric Reiter, and then Alan Shorb. Hi

everyone. So we're here kind of apropos of this meeting to let everyone know that we are bringing acclaimed director Andrew On to Ojai this Saturday for a screening of his recent remake of The Wedding Banquet. It stars Bowen Yang with Academy Award winner Yoon Jung Yeo and an Academy Award nominee Lily Gladstone. We think it's a great event to bring more queer and AAPI artists to Ojai to show how great this town is and bring more of them to here so that we can really promote arts there.

So if you see us around town, feel free to say hi. Also, we'll have some fun Asian snacks that are free for the audience. So yeah, we welcome everyone who can make it.

Thank you so much. Appreciate

it. I have a quick question.

Sir, we just have one question, please.

I'm sure I should know this. Where is it playing?

Oh, sorry, yeah, at the Ojai Playhouse. Okay, I assume so, but I wasn't sure. Thank you very much.

Thank you. You'll leave that at the back, maybe? Okay, thanks. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, Eric Reiter, Alan Shorb, and then Bill Miley.

Good evening. This is my first time to address the City Council as a resident of the city. We moved in from Upper Ojai a few months ago. I have a few things. Observations as a longtime participant in the Friday evening peace vigil. One has to do with bicycles, and I'm sure you have heard other people on this. Young kids, I would say mostly between 10 and 15, and mostly boys, have a very threatening way of riding their bicycles downtown.

I would like to see the City address this, not as an enforcement issue, but as an education issue, but it really needs to be addressed. As soon as possible. Second thing is, and I think I might have mentioned this before, the Peace Vigil is at the crossing of Ojai Avenue in front of Libbey Park. In the 10 years I've been doing the Peace Vigil, there are at least a half a dozen cases where I was sure somebody was going to be hit by a car.

One of those incidents did, in fact, have someone gently bumped by a car, but to me, it's only a matter of time before something more serious happens. I realize this is a Caltrans issue, but I think the City Council can heavily lobby Caltrans. The third thing has to do with my keffiyeh. Since the October 7th incursion of Palestinians into the occupied territories of Israel, the Peace Vigil has been joined by other people who are Supportive of the Ceasefire in Gaza.

Countergroup has been showing up at the same time as the people in the Peace Vigil. We're very friendly with the ceasefire group, not so friendly with the counter-protesters, and several times things have gotten very heated there. Something needs to be done about that, like maybe having us be on both sides of the street or maybe having different times. We've been there for 20-some years.

They've been there for 21 months. Thank you.

Thank you, sir. Just to tell you that the crossing light is high up in our CIP project list, and it's something we all care about very much. Let's see, Alan Shorb and Bill Miley. Oh, you were Ellen. Sorry, it was Eric. Sorry, I goofed up the cards. Eric Rider, please, and then Bill Miley. No, my

fault. I believe, actually, I might be mistaken here because of the news that you just dropped. Because yesterday, on the trolley, a fellow passenger had told me that she had just run into the Ojai Trolley's temporary supervisor, Rick, I believe. who told her that two new drivers had been hired. And so I wanted to say thank you for doing that, but apparently it hasn't been done.

So to be continued. Thank you, sir.

Bill Miley, please.

Oh yeah,

go

ahead. It's a process. It's a process. It's in process. It's close. And this is part of, you know, this is illustrative as to, you know, we're unlike other organizations when we hire, especially when you hire somebody who needs to drive Humans in a Public Vehicle. There's a lot of licensing and requirements that you must adhere to in order to have that privilege. And so we're almost there, but it takes a while. Thank you for

your patience. So it sounds like Mr. Raines was enthusiastic. He was, exactly. He's right, we're almost there. Okay, that's good to hear. Thank you for that clarification. Mr. Miley, please.

Hi.

Hi.

I've added another comment. Please consider making some trolley driver positions Full-time with benefits. They are responsible for people's lives every time they drive. Okay, new item. I believe it could happen here. On January 9th, 2018, the Montecito bombed cloud steadied over the area and dropped almost an inch of rain in one hour. It fell onto ground, burned with the Thomas fire, leaving the soil burned and hard.

With no vegetation through retard water flow, cascaded into Montecito causing massive damage and 23 deaths. Kerbal, Texas, is in the news, we all know, for massive torrential rainfall, which raised the level of the Guadalupe River to rise 30 feet in three hours. With devastating results, people would come to the area for Fourth of July and live there. I see our valley having a potential heavy quick flooding from climate change.

Weather, similar to what happened in Montecito. I live on North Signal near the Stewart Canyon Debris Basin, which gets emptied every mid-year. Soil, rocks, and other debris, which was headed towards the middle of our town, stopped. What about debris basins on the San Antonio Creek, Thatcher Creek? Fox Canyon Creek. I was there in 69 when the big flood came, which washed out the approaches to most of the roads out of the valley. We were playing bridge that night and the radio said, you can't get out of the valley because they're all washed out.

It best be looked at with county government to determine likely future rains in our mountains. and Needed Ways to Slow and Direct Heavy Water Flows from Devastating Our Valley and Our City. Maybe More, Debris Basins, Creek Levees, Warning Signals, Signs, Symptoms, Systems. We need to prioritize this. Thanks.

Thank you, Mr. Miley. Mr. Montgomery, anybody online?

Yes, Mayor. We currently have two raised hands. First, we have Steven followed by Starchild. Steven, you have the floor.

Good evening, Council Members and staff. I'd like to say that the Council has an opportunity to complete the Flexpath Energy Conservation Code that has already undergone considerable technical development and public engagement with the affected community groups. The engineering and energy consultants provided to the City through the Clean Power Alliance grant are available to the City staff to support additional stakeholder outreach, code development, and technical assistance.

This code includes a variety of cost-effective compliance options, giving the applicant the flexibility to pick and choose the measures that align with their major renovation or addition The purpose of this ordinance is to increase energy efficiency and comfort in the home. The flexible measures will reduce energy use and costs over the life of the renovations.

An additional advantage of this code is that several of the available measures contribute to fire hardening of the residence. I encourage the Council to direct staff to utilize the resources of the City's CPA Expert Consulting Team to conduct a series of office hour call-ins to take comments and answer questions on this Code. This is one project that we can complete over the next couple of months and put into the Accomplishment category.

Thank you for your efforts and for keeping Ojai a leader in promoting energy efficiency. Again, thank you.

Thanks, Mr. Colomay. And just so you know, it's on our August 12th agenda, that item.

And I have a quick question maybe for the legal team at some point. Can we give more points for fire hardening? In other words, do we have the power to Do you understand what I'm saying? Okay, so it's a point system, and what you do, you get points, but- On the Flexpath. On the Flexpath, but if you could, can the city, does the city have the power?

Well, let's dig into that next time.

Well, that's what I, but I'd like them to come prepared to potentially answer that or not, so thank you.

Her, yeah. Not something I can answer today, but yes, I will look into your question. Yeah, thank you. It's

just a way to streamline, so the question doesn't come up. Fair enough.

Yes, one more. Mayor, we have one more in-house card from Larry Steingold. Okay.

Didn't you say there were two online?

Yes.

Oh.

We usually take the- Oh, I see. Okay. We have one more

on

it. Got it.

Happy July 4th. It was a wonderful parade, and the parade staff needs a round of encouragement and fundraising for next year. CERT. I passed my CERT, which is Comprehensive Emergency Response Team. You should all sign up for it. and Chief Cleary here would be more than happy to tell you about CERT so we can all get qualified. I agree with Mr. Shoup regarding the traffic on Ojai Avenue. While I would certainly, for the speeders on the cars, people running the stop signs, people running through the crosswalks without stopping, and on the last one, I certainly would not call it a peace vigil at all.

Okay, so let's not call it that because that's not what it is. All right, so let's stop that. All

right. So thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Stengel.

And our last raise hand on Zoom, we have Starchild. Thank you. Starchild, you may unmute.

Good evening. I'd like to extend my personal condolences to Commissioner Bennett's family as we and they mourn his death. Today, I'd like to talk to you A bit about what I heard today about the RFQ for the City Attorney. I heard that we're going to have a closed session meeting to discuss the five applicants. I want to encourage you to make this process as transparent as possible.

I think the applicants' names should be made public now. I think their applications should be made public now. And I think instead of having a closed session meeting, that it should be an open session meeting. I think that there's not much that the City gains by hiring a City Manager in secret, or sorry, in closed session without the public being able to hear the questions asked by Councillors and the answers of the new City Attorney.

I urge you to make that an open session meeting and not a closed session one. Thank you.

Thank you, Starchild.

No more, Mayor.

Okay. Thank you all. Moving on to our consent calendar, you wanted to bring up, pull something out of consent, or did you just have a question?

I just had a couple questions on the warrants, Christy, for you. Okay. Let's see, 1B-3, the last one, Council Member Ming, I am not 100% positive, but I believe we do

pay that every month and

that is just stating it's during that month.

I'm getting an acknowledgement from Norma. It's for the entire year. It

is the entire year. Okay. Per

year.

The monthly should not have

been there.

For

the hand

signals that I just received. Thank you. That's better. 1-B-7, there's two charges for Amazon and

it's not broken down, it says City Office Supplies and Supplies for the Unhoused twice,

the one is for $16,223 and the other one for $8,500. So I was just wondering what, you know, how much is for the unhoused? How much is office supplies? Because that's kind of a big chunk. It seems like it's happening monthly. So I just thought...

It looks like Ms. Cervantes may be coming up to rescue

us. I'm also anticipating that we are supposed to get, it's just coming a detailed report, which that would be broken out of that, but please continue.

So we don't have the actual amount for unhoused and the supplies, but it is broken down because they were paid separately for different transactions, but we can definitely give you that.

Perfect. Thank you. Appreciate

that. That's good to know.

That's it.

Okay. Do I have a motion to approve the consent calendar? I'll

move to approve it.

Okay. I'll second. Mr. Montgomery?

Motion

passes. Wonderful.

Can I back up just a second? I want to ask the City Manager. There was the question about bicycle riders from the public comments. And I know that Chief Jenkins has been, you know, doing a lot. We've got a traffic motorcycle officer on who's now live, you know, and also I think something that hasn't been talked a lot about is Chief Jenkins shared with me that there's That we have electric bike correct officer patrols going on too and I thought maybe you could just kind of give a report on where we are because I The one other thing I'll say is that there was a there was a really great presence during the parade of both my motorcycle and Electric bike officers and I think it I Change the Mood of the Adolescent Bike Riders a Bit. I

agree. No, thank you for bringing that up. Please, if you wouldn't mind,

Chief. So, yes, our motor officer has begun enforcement. Per my direction, I do want him to spend some time on the bike path or park. So if you see the motorcycle on the bike path or park, he's looking for e-bikers as well. So that stepped up. We also have four new bicycles that are e-bikes that our officers are using. They're really excited about them. They're comfortable, they're fast, they're perfect for enforcing some of the e-bike issues that we're having in the city.

So the officers are excited about it, and I'm excited, you know, we'll be out there, we're gonna see a lot, you're gonna see a lot more of us on bicycles and the motorcycle, so.

And Chief, I think that we're going to be introducing our deputy, is it the next meeting?

August 12th, I'll do a little presentation on our traffic safety campaign that we're putting together, and then I'll introduce you to the motor officer as well. Thank you,

thank you for that, thanks Chief. I missed one card, it's Larry Steingold for 1D, Mr. Stengel, do you want to come and talk about 1D?

This looks to be like another sole source bid. And while they're, I'm sure, qualified, and as are a lot of the companies, why do we have sole source bidding? Is it because they're the best? Is it because they're friends of? They're related? They're in the city? Whatever. But we have a lot of contracts, and most of them should all be bidded, unless there's some rule that they can't be bidded, or there's something special, like they're sole sourced as indignity.

Okay, because there's no reason for it. I'm sure they're qualified. They say they're unique. They know the personnel, but all their personnel live outside of the state or the city. Everything's online. Our personnel changes. Our systems are unique. If our accounting systems are unique, we've got a bigger problem. Okay, because it's money in, money out, where it comes from, where it goes. This is not strange.

I just would like to know, is there any place on the website that shows all the contracts that are coming up for bid, and why aren't they being bidded? And if they are being bidded, how come locals can't bid on them? This is not unreasonable. I understand it's a small town, and contracts have been given out over years, and that's just the way it is. I get it. Coming from Rhode Island, I see a lot.

But now that I'm here, I'd like to see why. And I don't think the public should be, you know, it's not unreasonable to be transparent. So, thank you.

Mayor, would you like me to respond to that? Yes, please. Thank you. Sure. So the Ojai Municipal Code, like most city municipal codes, allows for the selection of professional services based upon a firm's reputation or skills or ability. And Ida Bailey is a firm that I have used in other cities when having to deal with complex process and system deficiencies within a finance department. Putting together work plans to move things forward. We are very fortunate to have Ms. Billings and Ms. Cervantes here currently, but that's not always been the case. And so we had to develop a comprehensive list of all the systems that needed to be fixed. We needed to put that into a plan that could be addressed. We needed to have resources available to help us with that plan.

We continue, as you know from the consent calendar, to need that additional expertise and assistance. I would respectfully disagree with Mr. Stein's goal that this is not something that anybody can just step in and do. Government accounting is not something that anybody can just step in and do. It is a complex, specialized world that requires knowledge and understanding And there are other firms out there like I. Bailey, but for professional services, that is something that the code allows for the selection of a firm.

Thank you.

I might point out, too, that this happened actually since our last meeting, but thanks to Councilmember Mang, we did change on the front of the website where we have the job listings there as a button right on the front. Thank you for that. and then if you search bidding or request for qualifications, you'll see the list of things or request for proposals. We could look at, you don't wanna have too many buttons on the front, but we could try to streamline that possibly.

We could. We're a small city. We don't have a huge number of bids open at any particular time. They're primarily public works related items and I don't want to spoil things here, but a lot of the firms are not based in Ojai that end up Being awarded these bids, why? Well, we're a very small community. We don't often have firms, and it's not that they're not open and available to firms in Ojai, but that's just who submits.

Understood. Just to say it is there, but slightly buried. Thank you for that. Okay, we'll move on to item number two, which is our two council member requests for the adoption of the resolution approved, the Ojai Values Act 2025. Let me say one quick thing. I know there's such a desire to want to clap and all that kind of stuff. And we're going to have probably a long night. So what I want to say is definitely gesture, but let's not have a lot of sound just so everybody feels included and wanted and welcome. All right. Great.

Please take it away.

Well, we brought this forward because we had heard from members of our community that they didn't feel safe with the ice raids that are happening. Usually, when we do get alerts, and thank you, Chief Jenkins, for that, when we do get alerts, they're already underway or they've already taken place. And given what has what happened in LA, there's just a there's a climate of fear. And we wanted to do Whatever we can to help those who are living with that fear to feel safe. And so that was the impetus for this.

I want to say a few things about this policy. First of all, I want to thank Thank you, Taylor, for helping us draft it. This is part of what is becoming a countywide effort. Ventura just passed the Safe Policy Oxnard has a policy in place. There is a movement that is going throughout the county as communities like ours are navigating how to address this new political landscape.

One that is keeping farm workers at home, afraid to come out, keeping even people who might have come to speak up Here Tonight, Not Feeling Safe. Invasive questions, knows what to do in the event that there is an ICE raid in the city, that this policy is actionable. And also, we had to bring this before the Council in order to have something on our website, for example, so that any immigrant or anyone who is at risk knows their rights.

So we thought it was important just for us as a city to make a statement about how we want to respond. And so that's the reason for us bringing this forward. It's a concern that people are coming up to us Having conversations on our walks, emailing us. We knew we needed to do something to bring this forward. And so the key things that this does, one, it tells us what we expect from staff. Two, it gives us a direction. And three, it gives us, it's a policy decision about what we're going to say on the website for anyone to know what their rights are.

This is in alignment with California Values Act. It's in alignment with what the county is working toward. And it's also in alignment with what other cities in Ventura are beginning to do. And like I said, this is a movement that's happening all over. And Taylor said, you know, when I asked her, do you think this is going to put people at risk? Do you think that enacting this policy is going to target us in any way?

She reminded me that the Attorney General actually said that Cities need to be vocal right now. That is not a time to be quiet. So there was a lot of discussion that went into this about what is the right move to make. And we felt like this is what we need to be doing.

Yeah, that was the discussion that we had. We feel like we need to codify locally what laws do exist as well as certainly train the staff and potentially, you know, if there's an appetite for it, have the larger community understand sort of what their rights are, even businesses. If I shows up at your business, you know, what does that mean for you? What are your rights? What, you know, rights do they have?

So it's just really important right now that we pull any rights that we have and put something in the ground. So that's also the point of this. And we stand for our community. We stand for our community without fear as much as we can make that possible right now. So anyway, we're gonna talk about it. It's all good.

Thank you. I appreciate you bringing this forward. I had a question, but are you ready for

that?

I've been trying to follow this as well, and I'm very appreciative of what you've done. I'm happy to be corrected about this, so this could be for Ms. Anderson as well. When I looked at what Ventura ended up passing, ours is about twice as long. So what I'm trying to understand is, were there significant things that we thought were in the Ventura piece that we wanted to include?

Or did we go from an early draft? and Adoption.

Because of the timing of council items, we finished this item before Ventura had adopted theirs. So that came after this was finalized for the agenda.

So thank you. The question that I have then is, I guess it's when you saw what Ventura finally passed, does it do you feel like it sufficiently meets the needs or do you feel it does not sufficiently?

Our situation is a little bit different. One, we're a smaller city, and we don't have our own police force. We contract that out. And so there were things that were specific to Ojai that would naturally be different than Ventura.

So I saw the parts when it was specific where it said, the city of Ventura controls their police department. We contract with the sheriff. So I saw that language. It was a couple things, for example, like specific things about what kinds of warrants we would adhere to that they cut out. So there's, I mean, in a way, there's just a few things here and there where I just wasn't sure are these sort of the deal breakers or not. That's just a really sincere question.

Yeah, no, I don't think so. We were drawing from other cities that had done this, and then also I've been working with a few of our community members, and I want to thank them very much for their help. And so, and there's also an organization with lots of resources, 5051, I think it is. And so, thank you, I couldn't remember if it was 51 or 50, so, and so this is coming from a lot of different, we had help with this, let's put it that way.

And I think we also wanted to be as expansive as we could and as articulate as we could, take away as many gray areas as we could. I'd have to look at the Ventura, the final Ventura ordinance, but I mean, as far as the warrants go, it's really important that everybody knows the difference. It kind