Ojai City Council, Regular Meeting

BodyCity Council
MeetingRegular Meeting
Date📅 September 9, 2025

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Scheduled start 6:00 PM · clock-time estimates pending review

0:03 – 0:045 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed3:45

Yeah,

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:49

check, check. Hello. Welcome here, everyone. Thanks for coming.

ElectedKim MangMayor Pro TemProposedvoiceprint 0.643:58

Thank

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:59

you. What did she say? Oh, okay. Well, welcome to the Tuesday, September 9th regular meeting of the Ojai City Council. And I gotta hit this first. Thank you. And roll call, please. Mr. Montgomery.

Roll call — called by City Manager
Show transcript
Yes, Mayor. Mayor Gilman. Here. Council, I'm sorry, Mayor Pro Tem Lang. Here. Council Member Whitman. Here. Council Member Mang. Here. Council Member Rule. Here. And Mayor, we'll just
ElectedKim MangMayor Pro TemProposedvoiceprint 0.644:26

make a quick announcement. Council Member Rule is participating remotely under Government Code Section 54953B3, and that has been noticed on our agenda today. And all City Council actions will be taken via roll call.

Pledge of Allegianceceremonial · click to expand
UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role4:40

Thank you very much. Would you please lead us in the pledge?

ElectedKim MangMayor Pro TemProposedvoiceprint 0.644:43

Yes. Welcome community, honorable council. Please rise as you are able. Ready, begin. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 3Proposed4:52

United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role5:02

all. Any changes to the agenda?

Agenda Discussionitems moved / continued / pulled — click to expand
UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 4Proposed5:13

I'll make a motion to approve the agenda.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role5:15

Second that.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 4Proposed5:16

Great.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role5:28

Thank you. Wonderful. And we have a presentation by Gold Coast Transit District. Wonderful. Thank you.

CommentVanessa RauschenbergerProposedself-stated5:36

Good evening, Mayor, Council, and members of the community. My name is Vanessa Rauschenberger, and I'm the General Manager for Gold Coast Transit District. I'm here tonight to give an annual update. It's been quite a while since I think Gold Coast has been here to present. I thought it would be nice to give you all an overview of the transit services available to the community and also take any questions or feedback that you have to help in our district. And joining me here today is Jim Beck, who is our Director of Operations and Maintenance. And he also is available for any questions, particularly about vehicles or zero emissions or that sort of thing. Thank you.

So, as I mentioned, I'm from Gold Coast Transit District. Our mission is serving, moving, and connecting people to opportunity one ride at a time. We take that mission very seriously every day in the thousands of riders who use our services, and that includes Ojai, City of Ventura, Oxnard, Port Wainimi, and all the unincorporated areas of Ventura County. By the numbers, we have 17 routes, 61 buses, and 21 vans. We employ just about 228 employees. Most of them are bus operators, our wonderful mechanics, maintenance team, and we have about 18 administrative staff.

As you can see on the right, there's a map of our routes, and the one you may be familiar with is the Route 16 that traverses all the way up through Ventura, all the way up to downtown Ojai. And we connect both to the Ojai Trolley here in Ojai, and we connect to the regional services, so if you want to travel out beyond Ventura County. I want to just make a mention of our great team. As I mentioned, we have about 228 employees. A few pictures here. I'm just so proud of our bus operators and our frontline staff who do the work of interacting with our customers. Just today, I was out at a bus stop and hearing from our riders at the bus stop saying how much they appreciate the help that they provide them.

We are led by our wonderful Board of Directors. Representing Ojai are Director Rachel Lang, Mayor Pro Tem, we're very happy to have her leadership on our board. We are also, one of our other board members include the Mayor of Port Hueneme, Martha McQueen-Lejeune, and then I'm joined by Matt Levere, Dr. Jeanette Sanchez-Palacios, and Gabriela Rodriguez, representing Oxnard, Ventura, and the county. If you don't know about Gold Coast Transit District, or if you're new to Ventura County, we were founded in 1973 as South Coast Area Transit, or SCAT, not a very nice name, but eventually the name was changed to Gold Coast Transit District. In 2014, the district formed a special district. Prior to that, we were a joint powers authority. We formed the district in order to better plan regionally across the western Ventura County.

And today, each jurisdiction appoints one board member and one staff to form the technical advisory committee. In the past, the staff from Ojai, you might remember Drew Lurie from years ago, the Ojai Trolley Supervisor. Today we work with the Ojai Trolley staff who help advise as a TAC. Some of our priorities for 2026 include focusing on operational efficiencies, looking at our organizational structure to ensure compliance, maximizing the space at our facility. We have a 15-acre facility in Oxnard located right behind Costco. And we've been expanding the use of that facility by merging our curb-to-curb services and fixed route together to operate efficiently out of that location. And also looking at our budget management.

We're funded from a variety of sources. Contrary to popular belief, public transit is not primarily funded by fares. Fares are important, but only make up a small percentage of our overall budget picture. Most of the funding for public transit comes from federal and state sources. So federal funds from the FTA, also state sales tax that we all pay comes through the Transportation Development Act. And then we apply for numerous grants throughout the year to keep our service going. In 2026, our annual budget is just over $40 million, and that is, as you can see here, 50% of that comes from state funds, about 25% from federal funds, and then a small portion from other sources.

Our expense budget includes our main category, which is all our wages for our team, our bus operators. Most of that goes into operational costs of running the service. Just almost 200,000 hours of revenue service across those 17 routes across the communities. We also provide, as part of our budget, funding back to the member agencies. So we provide funding back to the City of Ojai, which is used for things like bus stop maintenance, the Ojai Trolley. We provide funding to the City of Ventura for maintenance of its transit centers, its bus stops. We provide funding to the City of Oxnard for the Oxnard Transit Center. And then we have over 600 bus stops in the entire service area. So each of the cities has a few that they maintain.

And then we provide the funding back to the jurisdictions to maintain those. This is a picture of what one of the Gold Coast Transit bus stops look like. And then I just have a quick picture here of one of the bus stops in Ojai going southbound. This is the stop. You can catch the bus here and head to Ventura. In 2023, we received a pretty large capital grant to begin our path towards zero emission. State of California has mandated that all public transit agencies transition their fleets to zero emissions, and so we're in that path as well. The path we've chosen for our buses is a hydrogen fuel cell. There's two types of zero-emission buses available on the market, hydrogen fuel and battery electric. Both of them can be good depending on the environment and conditions in our area due to our long routes, the weight of our buses, the fuel and range needs.

We selected the hydrogen fuel path as our path. We are in the process of constructing a fuel station and purchasing five fuel cell buses. And I will also say that a couple of years back, we worked with the city of Ojai to develop a zero emissions path for the city. I think that was presented to the council a few years back, and so we partnered with the city to provide technical assistance and partnership in developing that fuel path. I will note that transitioning to zero emissions is a quite expensive endeavor. Luckily, we have grants to help us take the first steps, but in order to continue, we will need to identify other grant sources. The current funding state that we're in doesn't really match the cost that it would take to fully transition our fleet yet, so we're always looking for additional sources of grants to apply for.

Our team participates in many events throughout the community, throughout the year, and if there's any events coming up that you think transit might be of interest to participate in, please let us know. For example, in Ventura, coming up, Art Walk. We have an app that people can download and ride free to the Art Walk down in Ventura. But we love to come out to community events where there's lots of people to help spread awareness of transit options.

We also have a short-range transit plan we'll be implementing this year, including a five-year service plan. And one of the recommendations would be to increase some of the weekday evening hours. Right now, we have, you know, the buses stop running fairly early. And so if funding can be identified, we'd like to extend some of the weekday evening hours. We know that when people need to come back home after work or get back down to Ventura, this would be helpful.

Some of the transit trends, we had 3.6 million

Roll-call vote Passed 5–0 motion to approve the agenda. Second that. Great. Roll call,
Show transcript
Roll call, Mayor. Thank you. Council Member Rule. Yes. Mayor Pro Tem Lang. Yes. Council Member Whitman. Yes. Council Member Mang. Yes. Mayor Gilman. Yes.

0:15 – 0:2313 turns

CommentVanessa RauschenbergerProposedself-stated15:13

riders, just over 1.7 increase from last year. We carry about almost 20 passengers. Our goal is 20. We're at 19.7 passengers per hour. So for every hour operation, we're almost there. And we've also made improvements on our on-time performance. Over the years, you can see the impact of COVID. This snapshot here shows a 25-year ridership history. This past year, we finally exceeded our pre-pandemic ridership. We had a big drop during 2020-2021. We're now back up to over 3.5 million for last year.

Serving Ojai, as I mentioned, Route 16 serves downtown Ojai going all the way to the Pacific View Mall, with stops in between. We also connect to the trolley at Miramonte and Highway 33, and also to the regional services. To ride the bus, it's $2 a ride, and you can ride for up to $2. It's $1 if you are a senior over 65 or you have a disability, or if you are over 75, the bus is free. We also offer free rides for youth who are under 18, and all local college students with ID can ride the bus for free. We operate seven days a week from about 4 a.m. to 10 p.m.

And this is just a little advertisement to promote the Youth Ride Free program. And this is a program that's not just on Gold Coast Transit bus, but on all transit in Ventura County. We also offer a curb-to-curb service for seniors and people with disabilities who are unable to use the fixed route service. And it's a reservation shared ride where you can call in and have a ride come to where you're at, your home or work or wherever you need to go. You have to call the day before by 5 p.m. and make a reservation. And it's, again, only open for seniors over 65 and persons who have a disability. And that's $4 per rent.

And then just a couple other services we offer. We started this service during the pandemic as a way to utilize our fleet during late night hours. And it's been, I think, very well received. It's called Safe Rides. So during the late night after 7 p.m. or before 7 a.m., The general public can use the curb-to-curb service for $5, and this is also a call ahead and make a reservation, but it's a way for if you're stranded and the bus has stopped running or you don't want to wait in the dark, you can call and request a safe ride during the evening or early morning hours. And then lastly is our health zone service. And this is a service for people who may not qualify for the curb-to-curb. Maybe they don't meet the age criteria of 65 or they have a temporary disability.

They're also able to use the curb-to-curb service, but paying a higher fare, zone-based fare. How to schedule a ride, you can call our number at 805-485-2319, day before, and we will, if possible, provide same-day service if there's space available, but I do encourage calling ahead. Our contact information, you can call our general question line at 487-4222, or you can also email us, customerservice at gctd.

Or you can also contact me directly. Anytime, my email is vanessa at gctd.org. And with that, I'll thank you for the opportunity to give an update on Gold Coast. Lots going on, and if you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer them, or you can always email me if you think of something later on.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role19:23

Thank you so much. I have two quick questions. And first off, let me say, I was a scat bus rider as a kid going to the beach every week from here, so thank you for that. Do you anticipate any federal either funding cuts or interruption? Is that something that your boards anticipated?

CommentVanessa RauschenbergerProposedself-stated19:39

We are, you know, we are not anticipating any cuts at this time. Although each, every five years, the federal government reauthorizes the surface transportation bill. So the process for that reauthorization is going on right now. The current five-year reauthorization will fund us for the next year. And so we are cautiously optimistic that the funding levels will stay at least to the level that they are. If they do get reduced, obviously we'll have to address that. So we're cautiously optimistic that at least funding will stay to the same levels that they have been. And we are in close contact with our congressional representatives who sit on the Transportation Committee. And so, so far, the feedback has been, you know, don't panic yet.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role20:33

No, thanks. And then my last question. I might be wrong about this, but the last bus leaves here like around eight o'clock or something like that. Are you getting feedback that people want a later bus? A

CommentVanessa RauschenbergerProposedself-stated20:45

little bit? Yes, we do get some feedback. People who work in primarily, you know, service, retail industry, you know, a lot of restaurants close at nine o'clock, right? And so getting home at the last, after restaurants might close and things like that. So we get a lot of feedback. It's hard for people to get home.

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.8821:02

Okay. Thanks. That's good for me to

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role21:04

know.

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.8821:05

Yes. I might have missed it, but how much do you collect in fares per year?

CommentVanessa RauschenbergerProposedself-stated21:11

So our fare is, the fare we collect is $2, but the actual amount we collect, I'll go back to that slide so you can see the number. So you can see here's our revenue sources. So passenger fare is just over $2 million. If you count our paratransit fares, about $2.5 million in fares. So it's less than 10% of our overall budget is fares. I will note that a large part of the state funding that we get is actually reimbursing us for the fares of the youth ride-free. So while the fare percentage number looks very low, it's actually being supplemented by state cap-and-trade, the greenhouse gas fund at the state. It's reimbursing all of those youth fares. Youth fares, youth right now are about 30% of the riders. So if that funding were to go away, that program were to go away, that would definitely impact us.

But the fares number, I will note, includes that fare reimbursement.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role22:26

Thanks. Anything else? Okay, thank you so much for being here. Sorry, I misunderstood

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 4Proposed22:31

you. I just want to say Ms. Rauschenberger is such a conscientious leader, and the climate among the employees, among everyone who works there, it's just there's really a sense of community. That I think your leadership has fostered. And it's really been a joy to serve on the board. And yeah, it's just professionalism at the utmost level. So I really love, I love all that you do. Thank you for all your service and for all that you do for our community. Thank you. Thank you.

CommentVanessa RauschenbergerProposedself-stated23:10

All right.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role23:10

Thanks for being here. Mr. Montgomery, any commission reports today? Okay, thank you very much. City manager's report.

0:23 – 0:3819 turns

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call23:21

Thanks, Mayor. Just two very quick items. One, you, Mayor, are aware of this, as is Councilmember Whitman. On Friday this past week, the City had a meeting with the school district, with the non-profit grassroots organization, and with Channel Islands YMCA on the topic of trying to jumpstart the community aquatics program. We left the meeting basically with the city, taking the lead, working with the YMCA, trying to see what would be involved with staffing from the YMCA to get the community aquatics program going. Since the meeting, I've been in communication with the YMCA and waiting for a response back. We provided them with the hours that might be available. We're waiting to hear back what that may cost. We will be coming to you, the City Council, with a proposal so that we may decide if it's something that the Council wants to embark upon or not.

So that's one part of my update. The second part, I failed to mention in my weekly update to you all this past week, that this agenda packet was created in our new agenda management system. So kudos to our Chief Deputy City Clerk. It all came together. We were able to crank out this packet using our new system. It's going to be terrific once we all get the hang of it. And soon there will be benefits for the community and for the council to enjoy as well. So just kudos to Mr. Montgomery. Big effort and we got there. Thank

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role24:50

you. Wonderful. Thanks. Great. Okay, let's move to public comments. Ron Salarzano, please, Leonard Claife, and then Renee Roth.

CommentRon SolorzanoProposedself-stated25:08

Hello. Thank you so much, members of council. My name is Ron Solorzano. I am the regional librarian for the Ojai Valley. Two things I wanted to share with you today. I may have already mentioned one, because it's a big one. One County, One Book, the Ventura County Library's community reading program, is underway as of this month. This year we are reading The Art Thief by Michael Finkel. The subtitle there is a true story of love, crime, and a dangerous obsession. The Art Thief is about Stefan Breitweiser, who in the early 1990s and 2000s stole from more than 200 museums and galleries across Europe, amassing a collection worth an estimated $2 billion that he kept in his mother's attic for his own and his girlfriend's enjoyment. He stole for The Love of Art, as he puts it, the book is about him and his journey there.

In addition to just having the book available in our libraries, we have copies that you can take. We picked up extra paperbacks. This is what the book looks like here. We have copies at the Ojai Library, copies at the Oak View and Miner's Oaks Libraries, all of our locations. We're going to have a book discussion later this month at the Ojai Library, but the big event is on Saturday, October 11th, when we're going to have Michael Finkel joining us at the Museum of Ventura County in downtown Ventura, 2 p.m. Saturday, October 11th, for a talk about the book itself. So very exciting. You can visit our website for more information on that as well. We're really looking forward to it. And the other thing I wanted to mention is an event happening at the Ojai Library.

This is for children. We are doing a storybook mailbox. It's set up right now at the library. This is for kids to write a letter to their favorite storybook characters and tell them about how they maybe have enjoyed their stories or how they may have changed their lives. So you can drop off a letter and then the children will receive a letter back from the characters. I believe that's going to be happening on September 28th. So you can stop by the library now to drop off your letter. It should be a lot of fun.

All this is going on in addition to our regular programming. We have story time Wednesday mornings. We have our Enrichment Center in the afternoons, Monday through Thursday, and just a bunch of other things going on all the time at the Ojai Library. That's all I have for now, and thank you so much.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role27:45

Good question. The construction that you guys are endeavoring to do, what's the

CommentRon SolorzanoProposedself-stated27:48

schedule? Yes. So, as is often the case with construction, it's hard to say for sure, but this is where we are right now. We are hoping to be able to submit the initial plans for consideration either this week or next. Once that happens, I'm being told that conventional wisdom is maybe six to eight weeks before actual work can begin at that point. So we're still at least a couple of months out, I would think, before we have to start that project. And once that does happen, the Ojai Library will be temporarily closing for a few months while that goes on. During that time, we're going to have the Mobile Library coming out more regularly, joining us at the Farmer's Market every Thursday afternoon for story time. And of course, the Miner's Oaks and Oak View libraries will still be open and available.

I appreciate that. Of course. Thank you.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role28:35

Thank you very much. Leonard Claife, please, Renee Roth, and then Kim Barnes.

UnidentifiedRenee RothProposed · by introduction28:42

Hi, Leonard Claife. I live in the city of Ojai. First, we're very fortunate to have the library that we do have, and Ron is fabulous, so thank you, Ron. I stopped by the police station the other day intending to drop off some unneeded prescription drugs and found that the canister that used to be there is no longer there. And one, why not? And two, what are we supposed to do with the drugs that we no longer need?

Second is, I've raised this periodically for about 25 years. The majority of the council probably has not heard this spiel. I will try one more time. The speed limit in downtown Ojai, heading eastbound, is 25 miles per hour until you get to Clough Vista Park. The speed limit through downtown Ojai heading eastbound is 35 miles an hour until you get to the Bank of America. People, generally speaking, do not really start to slow down until they see the sign that says, slow down, here's the speed limit reduction. So people will be going 25, 30, 35 miles an hour until you get to the library. There is no reason for that. It's absurd. It's clearly a mistake. I know of no other location in the United States where the speed limit differs depending on whether you're going east or west.

Please try and do something about that. So, that's two. Three. Bicycles. Some idiot adult on a bicycle was driving on the wrong side of the road, speeding down Montgomery, made a left turn at Oak. I was about 15 feet from the corner and almost hit the guy because he made such a sharp turn without bothering to look. I don't know why anybody expects kids to drive their bikes safely when adults are lunatics. I really do not want to kill anyone. I really ask the police to make a concerted effort. You know, you don't have to stop people if they slow down and look both ways, but people who speed through intersections without looking are a menace. So please make that a priority.

Last but not least, I have 45 seconds, I'm going to do it. I heard last meeting, I listened to the meeting about the travel allowance suggestion was made by one of the council members that in the future the city allot a certain amount of money divided by five and council members can use the money for whatever they want. Council member rules trip to England to me shows that more supervision is needed other than go wherever you want, whenever you want. So whatever you all decide to do, I hope there's some discussion that's had before a council member can spend the city's money on some journey. Thank you.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role31:36

You're welcome. Chief, do you want to talk about the canister? You don't have to stay up, but there was the canister there that's not there anymore for unused medications?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 5Proposed31:47

Yes, so that was taken out. It was not my decision, it went above me, because I liked having it in there and collecting the prescription drugs. So, to add to that, after we took it out, I inquired, well, where in the valley can we take prescription medications? I found out several of the pharmacies that used to do it no longer do it. And so the nearest location that I have found is a CVS in Ventura. And so that is an issue. So, I think it was a monetary decision made on our department, the Sheriff's Office, because when you add up all the boxes and all the collection, and it does cost a significant amount of money to collect those and dispose of them correctly.

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call32:41

Yes, sir. I just, I don't have the specifics, but I can certainly provide them to the Council and the community again. I remember Mr. Clay's question previously, shortly after I came on board on the varying speed limits downtown. At the time, I tasked Ms. Rivera to work with Caltrans to sort that out. She put together a detailed map that explained all the different speed limits and the reasons. I believe that she So how's that, Matt? She met with Mr. Claife. We could make that public again, but it's not an accident. It's not a mistake. There are a variety of reasons as to why the speeds change, and we'll make that public again.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role33:21

We're also engaging in a general question around speed limit for citywide, so that's part of our conversation. And I guess one thing just that seems important to say is we will bring up our travel policy at some point soon. We have a lot going on, but that is one. As far as the bicycles go, I wanted to actually commend you to say, Chief, that I'm seeing a dramatic difference in the bicycles around town, and part of it's probably that school's in session, I guess, that's part of it too, but I would just want to applaud the effort. So I'm seeing some change there. Okay.

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.7933:55

Go ahead, please. I've heard from a number of people about not having a place to dispose of their drugs. And the reason that you have that is so that people don't put them into the water supply and the ground. And so not to have a disposable place for that in the valley, to me, seems a huge oversight. Actually, people at the hospital have asked me about it.

I don't know What the answer is, but it just simply can't be that hard to whether the city has to take it on or not. I think that, you know, the return on investment is great. People need a place to dispose of their unused and their unused prescription drugs. You know, I'm driving around in my car with, you know, canisters.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 5Proposed34:47

So

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role34:48

I

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.7934:48

think it's really important, really important, actually.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 5Proposed34:51

Understood. Yes, sir. So again, I'm in support of having a place people can bring medications to because for various reasons. If you don't mind, I would like to look into that and find some solutions. Thank you very much. I appreciate that.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role35:10

OK, moving on. Renee Roth, please, and then Kim Barnes and then Clay Creasy.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed35:17

Good evening, members of the Council and staff. I love that we can work it out and we are going to solve problems and find solutions. I love that attitude and that approach. I want to say I listened in to the artistic community discussion with the Art Council. I thought that was so interesting. My husband even said, wow, I didn't know there was so much to talk about with the art community in Ojai. That was very interesting. I'm really glad that that all happened. I do think there's an artistic economy, but there's also a non-profit economy. There's other groups, so I really do hope you roll that into that economic development enhancement thing that you're talking about later.

Okay, so first I want to talk about, I've got two minutes left now, safety element of the Ojai Valley General Plan. I submitted a public comment, I followed up with emails to many members of the council with more details, and it ended up by saying, and I realize the apex of all of them are many of my concerns for our community. Our safety, our well-being have to do with the safety element. I did a little research and I discovered it's the safety element of Ojai is 35 years old.

For a general plan, that's really, really old. And it needs to be updated. And you have taken on responsibilities to identify hazards such as flood and fire and fire mitigation and flood mitigation. So I just want to read a little bit. First of all, Ojai adopted the Ventura County Local Hazard Mitigation Plan in 2022. And that was adopted recognizing and accepting the hazard analysis of our community for wildfire, earthquakes, drought. So let's be clear, what is a mitigation plan? It really is a process where communities assess risks, they identify actions to reduce vulnerabilities, and this is not optional. This is the law. This is good governance. This is what you should have been doing for the last 35 years in your focus on what your priorities are.

So I kept thinking, why aren't the city's priorities defined somewhere? And for safety, the safety element really should have been updated to include what your goals Your tasks, your priorities were for fire, for flooding, for all of these things. And it really needs to be looked at. So I really hope you will take some action on that tonight. Thank you very much.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role38:19

Thank you, Ms. Ralph. Kim Barnes, Clay Creasy, and then Starchild. I don't know how to pronounce your last name. Thank you.

0:38 – 0:476 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 7Proposed38:34

Good evening, Mayor and Council Members. When we evaluate a site, and I'm talking about the maintenance yard now, it isn't just about square footage or hookups. It's about whether the land itself supports stability and well-being. In traditional design principles, we ask, does the land gather energy in a way that nurtures people or does it scatter and resist them? The proposed maintenance yard has several serious disadvantages. First, its setting. It lies in a narrow gulch between two busy streets.

In, let's say, feng shui terms, this creates rushing, unsettled energy. It is a place of noise and pressure, not rest and refuge. It's like trying to plant a garden in the middle of an intersection. Things cannot take root. Second problem is access. The only way in and out is through heavy traffic and a steep ramp. This means constant strain for residents, service providers, and emergency responders. Instead of flow, there's friction. Third, the ground itself. This is industrial land with a long history of heavy use. Ground like this carries a harsh memory. In feng shui, this means the chi is unsettled and people will feel it.

Fourth is fire. The yard sits in Ojai's highest fires hazard zone. 30 residents, 30 homes there, and fire is already the dominant element here. To place a permanent supportive housing in that spot is to multiply volatility and risk. And finally, symbolism. A maintenance yard is where broken tools and discarded materials are kept. That may be fine for storage, but it's not the place to build permanent homes. To place supportive housing there sends the wrong message, that people meant to find stability and dignity are instead being asked to live among the city's castoffs.

By contrast, the Honor Farm offers the opposite qualities. Open, stable land. Calmer surroundings. Safer access, a place aligned with feng shui principles where energy gathers, stability is possible, and dignity is supported. It is the difference between a garden planted in an intersection and a garden planted in a meadow. And I would simply ask, is this maintenance yard where you would want your own mother to live?

The choice is clear. If we want Cavern Village to succeed, we must place it on land that welcomes stability, not on land that resists it. Thank you.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role41:34

Thank you, Ms. Barnes. Clay Creasy, Starchild, and then, let's see, it looks like possibly Lawrence, Adamo,

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed41:45

sorry, Clay. Good evening. Good evening, Mayor and City Council. For starters, I noticed Kim was exactly on time with three minutes. I hope to come close to that. We'll see. Anyhow, I recently heard the Executive Director of the Ojai Valley Fire Safe Council describe a study that they are doing to assess the feasibility of doing a community resilience center at the Honor Farm. The study is funded by a grant from the state of California. If approved, the construction of the center would also be grant funded. Here is a 72-page report on that program. If you haven't read it, I recommend that you do. Many groups in Ojai are rallying around this concept, and I think it really has leg. That gave me the idea that if we were to co-locate our cabin village with a community resilience center at the Honor Farm, we could save millions of dollars in construction and ongoing operating costs for the cabin village.

This would greatly reduce the budget pressure that the cabin village project is currently suffering from, as we all know. When I suggested this idea to Mayor Gilman, and by the way, it's not a new idea as we all know, he reminded me that it was his impression that our County Supervisor, Matt LeVere, had stated that he was against that idea. However, Mayor Gilman encouraged me to talk to Matt directly, which I did.

Matt wrote back to me, and I will quote his response to me. I would not say I'm opposed to this site, as I know some in Ojai are saying. I have just provided this feedback on the challenges with the site, which show that it would be nearly impossible to use the cabin village, the site for the cabin village, given the strict rules and timelines associated with the ERF grant. But here's the good news that we only discovered a few weeks ago. Just last June 30th, the state relaxed the strict rules timelines that Matt referred to, and they are now giving us until April of 2028 to build the cabin village. Combined with the fact that Dignity Moves now has delayed engaging a general contractor for the maintenance yard until next year, as Rachel would say, it's as if the stars are aligning.

We've suddenly got a real window here. Saving millions on the cabin village would help fund many things in addition to the original specs of the village. Now is our chance to do something awesome for Ojai, for all Ojai citizens, be those who are unhoused as well as citizens in general. And if we all leaned in together, I think we could make this happen. If we link arms, we're going to get there. Thank you very much.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role44:27

Thank you, sir. Starchild Wivoda and then Lawrence, but I think I must have the first name wrong, Adamo. Oh, it is. Thanks. Okay.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 9Proposed44:36

Good evening, I'm Starchild Vyvoda, President of the Ojai Valley Democratic Club, the longest serving democratic club in the Ojai Valley. There's a moment in a community's life when its true character is revealed, not in the times of ease and comfort, but in the moments when our neighbors are afraid, when families are breaking, when children are crying for parents who may not come home. We're living in one such moment in Ojai.

There are families in our community tonight, working families, families whose children go to school with ours, whose hands pick the fruit we eat, whose labor sustains our valley, and they live each day with the shadow of fear. Fear that an ordinary morning will end with a knock on the door, fear that they'll come home to an empty house. When immigration enforcement tears a mother from her children, when a father disappears overnight, when a child wakes in the morning to a world where nothing is safe, nothing is certain, nothing is familiar, this is not just their tragedy, this is our tragedy.

Because we're not just residents, we're neighbors, we're a community. And in Ojai, we don't turn our backs on each other when the storm comes, when the fire comes, when ice comes. Help of Ojai's Emergency Assistance Program is one of the lifelines in this storm. Helping with food, utilities, transportation, legal help, whatever is needed. Right now, that lifeline is stretched thin. I ask you on behalf of the Ojai Valley Democratic Club to extend our city's help to fund $25,000 to help with Ojai Emergency Assistance Program, not as a charity, but as an act of justice. Because when a child in this valley goes to bed hungry, we're all diminished. When a mother cannot find shelter, we're all less secure. When fear divides us, we're all less free.

If we believe in compassion, this is the moment to act. If we believe in justice, this is the moment to act. If we believe in community, this is the moment to act. As Senator Kennedy said, each time we stand for an ideal or act to improve the lot of others, we send forth a tiny ripple of hope. You have the power to send that ripple through the valley, to stand not for politics, but for people, to choose compassion over indifference, community over division, dignity over fear. History will not remember the dollars we spent, but will remember the lives we touched, the families we kept whole. Let Ojai be remembered for its courage. Let us be remembered for our compassion. Send this donation. Stand with your neighbors. Be that ripple of hope.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role47:31

Thank you. Lawrence Adamo, please.

0:47 – 0:526 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 1Proposed47:45

Thank you for this opportunity to speak. My wife and I, Stevie, we're the newbies in town. We've been living here for about two and a half years. But about four and a half years ago, we bought a property in Persimmon Hill, wanted to be our retirement sanctuary where we can build something beautiful. Where our friends and neighbors can come and visit and stay with us. Our property lines along Montgomery. It's that big white fence, and it goes all the way down to that fence. And we've spent a considerable amount of money cleaning that out. The prior people that lived there never touched it.

And one of our concerns is, obviously, we've had a number of homeless people jump the fence and live on our property. We've had the police come a number of times. And it's a little bit disconcerting for us to know that there might be a cabin village so close to our home and our property. We put up signs. They ripped them off. Everything was bent. And from our standpoint of view, This was, for us, a two-and-a-half-year project to build, and now we've been living here for two-and-a-half years. And for us, we're a little concerned, like the rest of our neighbors are, about where the location is. And I know I have a minute and 42 seconds left. But for me, I just have to say one thing. I second what Clay and Kim said. They couldn't have said it more eloquently about how our neighbors in the Persimmon Hill community feel and a lot of other our neighbors in the Ojai area.

So with that, you know, I'll hopefully leave it to your good judgment and listen to what we have to say about where we think the best place for the cabin should be built, not only for us, but for the people that are going to live there. Because that's the most important thing. By God's grace, we have a beautiful home and a place to live in. Some people don't have that grace. And we want to provide that to them in a manner that they have a place to live and love in the same area and have a beautiful place to live rather than in a maintenance yard. So with that, I'll close and thank you.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role49:59

Thank you, sir. Mr. Montgomery, anything online?

ElectedKim MangMayor Pro TemProposedvoiceprint 0.6450:03

Yes, Mayor, we have one raised hand from Mike. Speaking to our Zoom participants, we're taking public comment on our general public comment period. Mike, you have the floor.

CommentMike DonahueProposedself-stated50:13

Thank you. My name is Mike Donahue, and we've lived in Ojai, my family and I, for over 20 years. First, I want to begin with a shout out to the Ojai FireSAVE Council. The more I learn about their work, the grants they've secured with the state of California, and the partnerships that they have built, The more impressed I am. Recently, I've been hearing and reading about their progress on what they call, quote, full community disaster evacuation centers, or resilient centers. These centers, as you may know, and check out their website, provide public emergency communications, animal sheltering, heating and cooling facilities, and mass care shelters.

They're in the midst of planning and are funded by over a half million dollar grant. Thank you. I also want to recognize and give a shout out to the County of Ventura and Matt Levere. From what I understand, they're working closely with the Fire Safe Council, I couldn't be happier, and other Ojai leaders to explore the potential of the 100 plus acres on the Honor Farm, as well as the Summit School property for evacuation centers. Honor Farm in the west, Summit School in the east. The Honor Farm, as you know, is part of this valley, our valley.

Just like the residents that live outside the city limits, they are Ojai. They are Ojai residents. And that honor farm should be utilized to its fullest potential. It's part of our valley. And provide quality services to all of the citizens in Ojai. So I want to offer the shout out and thanks in advance to the County of Ventura. We need the county's help. And thank you in advance. And so do many seniors and some that are mobility challenged. Thanks a ton.

County of Ventura. And I love their can-do attitude. And so in closing, I'd love to say go Fire Safe Council, go County of Ventura, and go Ojai. This is some really great progress. Keep up the good work. Thanks. Thank you.

not transcribed≈10s of audible speech the AI couldn’t make out▸ listen
ElectedKim MangMayor Pro TemProposedvoiceprint 0.6452:45

No more raised hands, ma'am.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role52:47

Okay. Wonderful. So, we will move to the consent calendar. Is there any items that any member would like to pull?

0:53 – 0:5618 turns

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.8853:00

Yeah, I'd like to pull six.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role53:02

Okay. Anything else?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 10Proposed53:09

I have some questions on five.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role53:11

Okay. Yes? Ms. Rule, anything?

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.7953:19

Nope.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role53:20

Okay. Then, shall I start with a motion? Thank you, Mr. Summers. Should I get public comments first on items two through four? Correct. Okay. I don't have any cards. Any public comments? That's

ElectedKim MangMayor Pro TemProposedvoiceprint 0.6453:34

right, Mayor. No cards received for consent calendar and also no raised hands right now.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role53:38

Okay. Thank you. So, can I have a motion to accept consent calendar items two through four? I'll move. Second.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 10Proposed53:47

I'll second.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role53:49

Take her. Yes.

ElectedKim MangMayor Pro TemProposedvoiceprint 0.6453:51

Council Member Mang. Yes. Council Member Rule. Yes. Mayor Pro Tem Lang. Yes. Council Member Whitman. Yes. Mayor

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role53:59

Gilman. Yes. So let's start with five.

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call54:05

Yes, and before you do Mayor, I'm going to call Ms. Palmer up to the dais since these are both items that she wrote. Thank you. Hello. Good evening. Welcome. We don't have a presentation on these, but I imagine you both have questions, so please.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role54:21

Yeah.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 10Proposed54:22

I do. I'm just curious with the agreement for Ventura Regional Sanitary, didn't Public Works have employees that did the cleanouts of the drains and all of that in the

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 11Proposed54:36

past? So Public Works can clean out the inlets and the outlets that we can reach from the exterior of the road. This is more If you will, invasive. So we are going to have their vector truck go under the road and through the inlet and come out the outlet. So they're going to be CCTVing the entire interior of the drain that goes underneath the roadway. CC? It's video tape. They've got a

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 10Proposed55:05

camera.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 11Proposed55:06

So they will be assessing the condition of the storm drain pipes inside. And if they can get their little Remote control vehicle and camera through, they'll clean. If there's some rocks that we think the next rain can push on through, then good news. There's a lot of different potential scenarios, but what we're trying to do, and I've mentioned this to you all before, is we're getting ready for our next year's paving project, and what we want to do Thank you very much.

A concave in the asphalt and we're like, oh, there's an inlet over here. There's an outlet over here. So that means there's a drain. So we had our paving crew out there who was also a general contractor. So they excavated, opened up the roadway and replaced the storm drain at that time. So that's what we're trying to do. This is the first time in my I've been in the valley for 30 years now, and it's the first time that I am aware of a Storm drain project working in conjunction with a paving project. And that's really the way we like it to work. We want to take care of what's underneath the roadway before we lay new asphalt. And you guys also approved a pavement moratorium for us a few months ago to avoid excavations in the new pavement. It helps with our longevity of the asphalt and lots of things, costs.

So that's what this project's all about.

not transcribed≈15s of audible speech the AI couldn’t make out▸ listen

0:56 – 1:0138 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 10Proposed56:54

And then the 30 drains or sections that were identified, those are all within the city limits? They're all

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 11Proposed57:01

not only within the city limits, they're all within this paving project. Okay. So that's all we're focusing on is the streets that are in this next year's paving project. And then

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 10Proposed57:12

one last question. So I noticed that if we contract with them, then they contract out for the workers to come and do the

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 11Proposed57:19

work. They'll do it. They'll do the cleaning and the inspection of the line themselves. What our hope is and our expectation is, is that We get these identified before we go out to bid for our paving project. And if there's a pipeline replacement that is recommended, then we would incorporate that with our paving project. We have a separate line item in our budget for the storm drain improvements, then we do the asphalt. So we're hoping to stay within that budget for those 30 plus segments.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 10Proposed57:52

And then, like, the employees in Public Works, what do they do each year to, like, look at storm drains and when was the last time that that was evaluated through

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 11Proposed58:01

staff? So we do that every year. We do that twice a year. In fact, we do it before the rainy season and we do it after the rainy season. When we have

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 10Proposed58:08

a rainy season. And during

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 11Proposed58:09

the rainy season. So we put excluders in. It's like a little grate. And we're working through the city on the inlets and outlets on that. We put a little grate to exclude the trash. So we don't want it, because lots of the drains say, drains to ocean. We don't want that happening. Trash rolling down for the first big rain. So public works staff does, we have our storm watch. When we anticipate, we know the locations that flood. So we go out, make sure those catch basins and the storm drains are clear. So we're on it every

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role58:42

year.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 11Proposed58:43

Thank you. Appreciate

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role58:44

it.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 11Proposed58:44

You

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role58:44

warned us this was coming. I

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 11Proposed58:45

have warned you it has been coming, and it is here. And we're trying to preempt. It's very expensive, as we found on the last paving project. We had two segments. We had the one segment across Fox, and we had another one across Grand at Lyon. And so, again, we found them when we knew about it, but it's expensive when you don't have a general contractor out there. So each of those segments cost the city $50,000 to repair. So we're hoping that we are preparing for this. And so we're trying to be a little bit more proactive than we've been for the last three decades that I know of.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role59:24

That makes sense to

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 11Proposed59:25

me. Thank you. Sure.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role59:27

Any more questions? Should I go to number six? Go to six. Okay.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 11Proposed59:33

Is that mine too? Yes. This is the resolution of what happened. I have my binder, I just haven't looked at

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.8859:41

it. My question is almost... It's on the next plan. If you look at the 2025 one, Libby's

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role59:54

on that plan. It is coming.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 11Proposed1:00:02

It's coming. It's in

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.881:00:03

really horrible

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 11Proposed1:00:05

shape. And I have heard from many people there, as I have in other streets too, but that street is on our next year's paving plan. I'm saying next year, but we should be out to bid within maybe four to eight weeks.

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call1:00:19

Linda, do you want to remind everybody where our paving schedule is?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 11Proposed1:00:23

I would love to do that. So, on our website, we have our five-year pavement plan. In the public works section, it's the PMP, pavement management plan. And we've got five years of, well, we actually only have four years left now, including, we have another one again. The reason I'm asking for item five is so we can get the project out to bid for this year, but we're not ready to go until we get this videotaping done, the cameras.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role1:00:55

Just to say, I do keep the plan on my phone, so when someone asks, they can say, when is this one? And I can look and go, yep, next year, hopefully I can say next year, or the year

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 11Proposed1:01:05

after. I've had all of the plan on 8 1⁄2 by 11 laminated, so all of our public works employees have it in their trucks, so when people stop them, it's

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role1:01:15

there. Libby is in terrible shape, of course, it needs to

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 11Proposed1:01:17

be done.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role1:01:18

Yes. So, any other questions? Can I have a motion to approve 5 and 6? Oh, any comments on 5 and 6? Mr. Montgomery, online. Thank you. I have none, Mayor. Thanks, Mr. Summers.

ElectedKim MangMayor Pro TemProposedvoiceprint 0.641:01:31

Mr. Summers, can we take two items in one motion?

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role1:01:34

Thanks,

ElectedKim MangMayor Pro TemProposedvoiceprint 0.641:01:34

man.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role1:01:35

Okay. Thank you, Ms.

ElectedKim MangMayor Pro TemProposedvoiceprint 0.641:01:36

Palmer.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role1:01:39

We're looking for the motion.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 4Proposed1:01:40

Okay, I'll make a

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role1:01:40

motion. I second. Okay, great.

Roll-call vote Passed 5–0 motion. I second. Okay, great. Roll call
Show transcript
Roll call on items five and six. Mayor Gilman? Yes. Council Member Mang? Yes. Council Member Rule? Yes. Council Member Whitman? Yes. Mayor Pro Tem Lang? Yes.

1:01 – 1:125 turns

ElectedKim MangMayor Pro TemProposedvoiceprint 0.641:01:56

Motion passes.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role1:01:57

Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Palmer, for being here. So we'll move on to the discussion items. I'm on number seven, the Dignity Moves Development Budget and Schedule.

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call1:02:07

Great Mayor, I'm going to first ask Michelle Johnson to join me up here. Please, there she is. And then I'm going to introduce the Dignity Moves team, which are sitting here in the front row. We have Maureen Boyer, we have Dylan Johnson, and we have Jeff Gaddis. So this is a receive and file item that is based upon the City's Development Management Agreement with Dignity Moves, wherein the project budget and schedule were to be delivered by the end of August, which they were. This is the first council meeting since that deadline. That's why we're here tonight and not in August. But I'd like to have our IT team bring up the presentation and ask Ms. Boyer to come up, please, to provide you with that presentation. We can then go to council questions and then, of course, public comment back to council discussion.

Ms. Boyer, thank you. Thanks for

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 13Proposed1:03:01

being here. Thank you. Thank you very much, Mayor Gilman and City Council members and distinguished staff. We're very, very happy to be here to provide this update. I'm joined by Dylan Johnson, who is our project architect, and Jeff Gattas. who is our Director of Development and Partnership, who is a long-time advocate and partner for this Ojai Permanent Supportive Housing Project. So let's see, next slide.

So, just a quick introduction. Dignity Moves is a non-profit organization. Our mission and objective is to work towards ending unsheltered homelessness in our communities. To date, we have housed Over 500 individuals, and we're on track this year to increase that significantly, so we're really proud. We have a small team, but we are very motivated and passionate about what we do.

We have built many successful projects in and around the Ojai area. I encourage you to go on our website, anybody who's interested in seeing Some of our more recent projects at dignitymoves.com. We have a number of projects, both permanent and temporary or interim housing. Next slide. So our partnership with the City of Ojai resulted in the successful receipt of an ERF or Encampment Resolution Fund grant from the State of California. The purpose of this grant is to allow us to provide permanent housing, permanent supportive housing for 30 individuals And the intention is that these individuals will be transitioning from the Ojai tent town, which everyone is familiar with. So many of the same residents that are in the tent community will be transitioning into the permanent supportive housing project when it's finished in July of 2027.

So today, as Mr. Harvey has outlined, we are asking for the acceptance of the schedule and the budget, which we were given 90 days to validate. So we're back now in front of you to submit that. Next slide. So just to kind of recap a little bit of the sort of the trajectory and the timing of this work. It's been about a year since we were approved to move forward with the public works yard signal site. During that time, we received Planning Commission approval in January of 2025. We received City Council approval in February. In July, we pre-qualified general contractors through a public pre-qualification open call for submissions. We selected and received detailed feasibility budget and schedule input From four qualified contractors that all of this information has been made publicly available and is all on the city's website.

We then received and collated or created a comprehensive budget as a result of the input From our four prequalified contractors to submit to you today. The budget is based on a design development set, so this is very much a design that's in progress. Our commitment to the $9.5 million budget, which is We are contractually obligated to deliver the project within those budget parameters, has been validated now and backed up. The administrative report contains in Exhibit A a detailed breakdown of the budget. We, particularly Dylan Johnson and myself, we are Very happy today to answer any questions that anyone has about the detailed budget. And we also are submitting our finalized schedule. If you could move to the next slide.

So this is the schedule that I just basically recap. We anticipate moving forward that we will spend the next 10 weeks finalizing our construction documentation. We will submit those dates. I apologize, they're wrong. It's actually early November. The dates in your packet are correct. In early November, we will submit for building permit and we will issue to our pre-qualified contractors for bid. We will then Hopefully award in early February and start construction soon thereafter, leading to a completion sometime in June, July 2027. Our next slide.

So the basic components of our budget, the $9.5 million, again, there is a detailed backup and analysis in your packets, which we are happy to dig into to the extent that anybody wants to, but it's all pretty much there. 7.855 million in construction costs, including value engineering targets, which we are committed as a design team to achieve, to allow us to complete within the $7.8 million construction budget. Our soft costs include engineering, Permitting utility fees, so the soft costs make up the second piece of our overall construction budget of $9.5 million. The operational, or City of Ojai's soft costs, are broken down in the next category, and those total 3.167. I think if there are any questions about the breakdown, I think that's why Michelle Johnson is here, and we can certainly cede the floor to Michelle, and she can explain or answer any questions about the city's costs.

But the total, you'll recognize, It is the 12.667 million, which is the exact amount of the ERF grant. Next slide. So the goals of the project have always been to ensure safe, dignified housing. For your neighbors who are currently living in the tent village, up to 30 individuals, this is permanent supportive housing. The impact, fiscal impact, is what's already been approved and there is no change to that. Next slide.

So the next time you'll see us will be when we present to you our recommendation for general contractor, and that would be right around early February of next year. So I think that concludes what I was asked to speak to. I think we would be happy to open up for questions, and to the extent that I can ask for support from Jeff or from Dylan, we're here to answer any questions.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role1:12:08

Questions first.

1:12 – 1:2118 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 10Proposed1:12:12

Curious, the 1.6 for soft costs, why would utilities be a soft cost?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 13Proposed1:12:23

It has to do with how we distinguish between things we pay for ourselves out of our development budget and things which we ask our general contractor to pay for. So we pull those items into our own budget. So the soft cost is really the dignity move budget because those items are not items that we rely on our general contractor for. We apply for utility hookups.

So that's included. Oh, sorry, yeah. Thanks, Dylan.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 10Proposed1:13:04

I have a bunch of questions. You can go

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 4Proposed1:13:07

ahead. I had one question. So I'm aware of the Thousand Oaks project that you did, and I've talked to Thousand Oaks Council members who were very pleased with the results and their work with you. And I'm also aware that they received some significant donations from IKEA for furniture, and I noticed a part here in the staff report That we could perhaps go out for donations of solar panels or furniture or things like that. And I was wondering if you could speak a little bit to any of those opportunities. Yeah,

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 13Proposed1:13:47

absolutely. I mean, it is the case on all of our projects. I'm not even going to say nearly. It's always the case that there becomes a point where we engage with philanthropic organizations and local, you know, the Rotary Club, you know, local organizations, both to engage and build community, but also to bring in support and financial support. So, if you notice in our budget, what we call FF&E, which is fixture, furniture, and equipment, we pull those items out of the construction budget because those items we are, In every case, very successful at bringing in donations. We have a program that we sponsor on pretty much all of our projects. It's called Adopter Room. And that is how we bring in folks that, it can be an individual, it can be an organization, that help us to bring in all of the soft furnishings and the things that are important to make a room feel homey and welcoming.

So this Adopter Room program, I'm going to talk a little bit about what's going on in the city of Ventura. And we can include appliances, we include a number of items of furnishing, which we start to work on maybe six months prior to opening. But for things like solar panels, For those larger items, those would be items that we would identify as being likely targets. When donors agree to participate in a project, it's most often really helpful to allow them to consider that this is what they gave. So we're doing a project in Watsonville, and we have a donor that's giving shade structure, pet relief area, and bike racks. So we definitely, we typically identify and then target donors who have more of an appetite, more of an interest, and then we work ...to basically procure the support that we need for certain items that we kind of know about, and we have to know about them because we have to make sure they're not included in our contractor pricing, because we're trying to set some things aside that we know we're going to ask for help.

But that generally happens a bit farther down the

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role1:16:49

line. The question I had in the staff report where we see, oh yeah, thanks, the Dura panel being removed to meet the budget and replaced with the plywood and the composite tiles instead of the mission tiles. So I guess I know that was something that we were eager to have and there's a lot of community interest around that. So, let's see, I want to form this into a question before we get into the discussion.

I guess I would be interested in pursuing that further, and if that means some kind of compromise that we end up making. Anyway, I would love to continue that in part of the discussion, but let's think about

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 13Proposed1:17:35

that. So I do think that it's important to bear in mind that these are targets. At design development, at the point we are with a design that's still in progress, Anything that we suggest or that we list that's going to help to bring us down to the bottom line. At this moment, they're

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call1:17:52

targets.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 13Proposed1:17:54

They're calculated. I mean, we're identifying based on input from our four pre-qualified contractors. They each listed. We asked them to list. How can we save money? So we have tried to do a good job of sort of collating and quantifying those targets. Because we want to give you as much detail as we can based on our interaction and the materials that were submitted by our RGCs to help to understand. But these are targets. So any suggestion that we might make, if we find a tile that is not a ceramic clay tile, but that is a composite tile, If Dylan likes the look of it, and we agree that that's something that we could consider, then we would have a conversation about. So all of that is, we have the ability to identify what are important pieces of the project that are must-haves.

We're trying to separate the must-have from the nice-to-have.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role1:19:08

Thank you. And to expand

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 10Proposed1:19:10

on the

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role1:19:11

question about the Dura panel, we are specifying generically compressed

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 14Proposed1:19:16

draw panel. So the recommendation is that we pare back the scope of the use of these compressed rock panels. We're still very committed to using these bio-based natural materials, just not in the quantities that were identified. So know that we're not abandoning that idea. Thank

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role1:20:11

you. I appreciate that. Thank you, Ms. Mang.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 10Proposed1:20:15

Let me see here. I noticed it said that the sidewalk up South Montgomery deemed not in the scope of the project and the ADA ramp to South Ventura is not called out on any cost line. I know those are two big things.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 13Proposed1:20:30

The ramp is included in concrete. The handrail is included in metal, so it's sort of distributed through the components of the cost breakdown, but the ramp is very much part of our project. The walkway, The decomposed granite walkway has been taken out of our project because that would be undertaken at a later date by Public Works. We're not dependent on that walkway as we were early on when we were thinking that we were going to access the project from that side.

So the walkway, the sidewalk or the DG walkway is not part of our

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 10Proposed1:21:09

project.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 13Proposed1:21:11

But the ramp very much is.

1:21 – 1:2619 turns

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.881:21:15

It looks like we've eliminated drywall from the costs.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 13Proposed1:21:29

No, I mean, we'll have drywall if we need drywall, but we haven't, are you looking at the, sorry, which page

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.881:21:37

are you looking at? I think I'm looking at the hard costs, Division 9 finishes. First page of what I have.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 13Proposed1:21:50

Yeah, if we need drywall, we're going to have drywall.

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.881:22:02

Same question about flooring, two lines above drywall. There's no cost line there. I understand what you've said about, I think everything under Division 12 would be places where you're looking for donations, but I'm...

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 13Proposed1:22:27

Oh, I think for flooring, sorry, don't mean to interrupt you, but I think it probably, that probably got included in concrete because we would primarily have a finished concrete floor. So it might have come off a finish, the finish category.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role1:22:46

It's in the finish category right now, Division 9. The drywall with no line, with no dollar amount.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 13Proposed1:22:52

Yeah, so, yeah, it's in another, it would be in another category. And the drywall, if we do use the DuraPanel as a finish panel on the inside, then we don't need drywall.

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.881:23:03

Okay, and then, Eliminate, okay, so this is, I think it's the next page. Eliminate damp proofing at foundation and eliminate insulation under slab.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 13Proposed1:23:26

Yeah, Dylan, do you want to? These were recommendations, contractor suggestions, which we discussed in,

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 14Proposed1:23:35

Yeah, so with regard to the flooring, Maureen's correct. The building is all a slab-on-grade sealed concrete floor, so there is no flooring, so to speak, beyond the slab item that's in Division 3. With eliminating the damp proofing and the foundation drains, what was in the design development set included a fully insulated slab, sub-slab drainage, footing drains around all four sides. The contractors, after requesting opportunities for saving money, recommended that we limit the scope to damp proofing and foundation drains only on the uphill side of the building, which after some discussion, a review of the soils report, and so forth, I, as the architect, felt comfortable taking those sort of belt and suspenders pieces out of the project and removing the lion's share of the cost.

So, what's in the design right now is damp proofing and exterior footing drain on the west and north sides, which are the two uphill sides, and that seems like a reasonable good use.

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.881:24:45

Okay, and then replacing mini splits with PTAC HVAC.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 14Proposed1:24:53

Yeah, that's a great question and very timely. Maureen and I have been in mechanical coordination meetings all morning. We are not going to use the PTAC units instead. So for everyone's knowledge, those are sort of through wall units you might see in a hotel room. We don't feel, Maureen and I don't feel that those are appropriate for this site. They would necessarily be located on the courtyard side.

We've been working with some mechanical contractors to value engineer the mini-split systems, which is a version of what was in the original design, to have wall-mounted units, likely one in this building somewhere, with small outdoor heat pumps that drive those. And those heat pumps can be located on the exterior perimeter, similar to what you saw in the original design.

And some technical refinements of the design. We think we can get the cost down closer to the PTAC units, but provide, frankly, a much better building. So

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.881:26:00

that's what you're expecting is going to happen? We're keeping the mini splits.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 14Proposed1:26:05

Yeah, to be very specific, in the design development set, they were four zone units, or one outdoor unit controlled four interior units. We're looking at cost savings measures where they're actually one-to-one, sort of standalone units for each, for each apartment. It's more, there's more units, but they're smaller and less expensive. So I think that's a great point. So I think we can see some

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.881:26:30

improvement there. Those were my questions.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role1:26:36

Okay, so we'll go to public comments, unless Ms. Rule, do you have any questions before we go to public comments?

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.791:26:42

I do not.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role1:26:43

Okay. So, Carol Garamone, Mike Giadamno, and Ruth Miller. Hello.

1:26 – 1:346 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 2Proposed1:26:59

To say that I really support Clay Creasy's suggestions, and at this time particularly, since there's another time limit, I think it really behooves the Council to really consider this at this time. And I think that Clay's research Thank you very much. And where I don't have any notes, and I thought, oh, I'm going to be so nervous about this. I strongly, strongly feel that this is really such an important, sensitive, humane consideration. And I think the Honor Farm will be a wonderful, certainly a more meaningful place to look for housing. Particularly in consideration of what the primary public placement is now. So thank you for your attention. I haven't come with a big speech, but I sincerely come with this really being an extremely timely and very humane and important decision to make.

And I thank really your consideration.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role1:28:27

Thank you. Thank you so much. Mike Giordano, Ruth Miller, and then Mike Donahue. Although he may be online. Let's see.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 15Proposed1:28:38

Hello. My last name is actually Giordano. Oh, thank you, Giordano. Thank you. But you can call me Mike. Okay. Good evening, Mayor and Council Members. I want to speak about the proposed cabin village and why the Honor Farm, to me, is the right site. At the Honor Farm, residents would have a flat access and could be served by a trolley or another public transportation. At the maintenance yard, getting to town means a 350-foot uphill ramp to sidewalk that isn't an ADA-compliant, followed by a quarter-mile climb For people with mobility changes, that's simply not workable.

An accident is waiting to happen. Now, I know this road well because I live right on the corner of Montgomery and Ventura. I walk by that location every day. I have lived there and am very familiar with that location. The maintenance yard sits on a narrow gulch between Ventura Avenue and Montgomery. This is two of Ojai's busiest arteries. Access is difficult. Traffic is heavy. I stopped walking on that busy street eventually. And the optics of placing people there are poor, both for the residents and Ojai itself. The Honor Farm, by contrast, offers a quiet, open setting.

Where residents can garden. They have here with a little bit of property. I noticed they were doing gardening before. Gather outdoors, spacious, and heal in peace. It connects naturally to the services and to the outreach. The maintenance yards isolates residents and risks sending a message that they are being warehoused rather than welcomed. And importantly, the Honor Farm has the space to grow if the program succeeds. The maintenance yard is boxed in and very limited.

In every meaningful category, accessibility, safety, dignity, and long-term success, the Honor Farm is a better choice. Let's give this program a chance to thrive. That place is the Honor Farm. Thank you for listening.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role1:31:35

Thank you. Just for clarification, so everybody understands. No, not just, no, thank you. Just in general, we're actually not talking about the location today, we're talking about receiving the budget. And I know it's, we often get in the habit of invoking people who aren't here, but Supervisor LeVere and also the Fire Safe Council will be happy to come and talk for themselves. And we'll let them do that if they want to. We can even invite them.

What we're talking about today is questions about the budget. So you can talk about whatever you want. Just let you know we're not talking about the location. So Ms. Miller, please, and then Mike Donahue, and then Clay Creasy.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed1:32:11

Good evening. I'm Ms. Miller. Right now I'm mostly a tent town on-site volunteer. This shows again that Dignity Moves isn't just any developer. Dignity Moves is committed to housing our unhoused citizens and is willing to go to great lengths to achieve their goals. Ojai is lucky to have them as partners in building of the Cabin Village. We've come a long way. We also have a long way to go, which could seem daunting. However, the program has already started. Whitney and Angel with help of OHI and April with behavioral health are making themselves a valuable resource to the OTT participants.

They have privacy agreements with the participants, so I don't know everything. Participants share with me what they're doing, so I can share some of what I know and what I've observed. We have participants who are currently working with behavioral health through April. We have one person who is scheduled to move into housing in November. There is reason to hope that more will receive permanent housing before the cabin village is built. I see participants making and keeping appointments with Whitney, Angel, and April. I saw a van load Thank you very much. Thank you.

This is how it works. We are a team with different tasks, but one objective, to help the participants achieve their best lives. This is just a start, and probably a fraction of the services being used. OTT participants are still living in a much less than ideal situation. They are still in survival mode. However, because of you, They have hands that reach out to show them their options, and it's only going to get better once they have stable, appropriate housing. Thank you, City Council. Thank you, Ben Harvey. And thank you, Dignity Moves.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role1:34:39

Thank you, Ms. Miller. Mike Donahue, although he was just, oh, there he is. OK, great. And then Clay Creasy and then Joe Oberill. Thank you.

1:34 – 1:4110 turns

CommentMike DonahueProposedself-stated1:34:57

Before I get to the heart of my message, there's two quick points I want to make. First, it did take me a lot to get off my comfortable couch to come here and see you guys tonight. But I'm here because this matters. It matters a lot. Second, my frustration isn't just about the schedule, the plan, the details, the project. It's about the harsh tone I still see surrounding the discussions on this endeavor. The vilification of citizens. Still happening. It kills me. The scoffs, the eye rolls, the harsh language used at people that oppose the options. Group vilification. We got to end it. Okay, now on to the issues. So I spent a lot of time, a lot of time digging into the details of these different charts and schedules. The durations, the tasks, the two different schedules.

I found some rather disturbing things. On May 27th, you were sold, told and sold. With great confidence, but much has changed since that May 27th meeting. Massive changes, material changes. I'm not going to call it bait and switch, I'm just going to focus on the switches. What's changed during the June and July time frame? The confidence you left on May 27th, in my opinion, should not be there. We want to get this housing project right, as I said. Let's do it right, let's do it the right way. So let me give you some examples. In May, the plan was for a prime contractor to be selected on August 12th. They were to work closely with the City and Dignity Moves over a 26-week period, our partner, the prime contractor, before construction starts.

What's the plan now, you ask? One week from the time the general contractor selected, the time that the construction starts. Wow, quite a change. Example two. Of the first six tasks that were on this plan right here, the first six tasks that were on there, none got completed on time. Three are still incomplete, three were late. Okay? Third example. The complete RFP, which was due on July 15th, now won't get completed until November 7th. That's four months late. 36 seconds. Example four. The budget you're asking to be accepted now was supposed to be centered on the winning contract, the general contractor's bid, which was due on August 12th. That's not going to be done until February 3rd.

It goes on and on. My recommendation is that you cancel the development agreement you have with Dignity Moves and start fresh with a higher quality budget schedule. Give them time, but go with version two, and let's do it right. Thank you. Thank you,

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role1:38:04

sir. Clay Creasy, please. Joe O'Reilly.

CommentMike DonahueProposedself-stated1:38:09

Thank you. And

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role1:38:10

then Diana Farrelson.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 8Proposed1:38:17

Thank you again, Mayor and City Council. You're being asked to, quote, receive and file the Cabin Village budget provided by Dignity Moves. However, our agreement with Dignity Moves specifically says that we need to agree in writing with the development budget, not simply receive and file. But whatever they're asking, you should not do it, and here's why. Last May, when we signed the agreement with Dignity Moves, they said they would have a general contractor by August 12th. This would have allowed them to have committed budget numbers by now. However, they have now moved the general contractor selection to February of next year. So what we have here today is not a budget, it's just a guess. And frankly, not a very good one. Ostensibly, due to cost pressures, in this budget, Dignity Moves has eliminated the following things.

Courtyard pavers. D.G. Path up South Montgomery, all gutters and downspouts, the installation and waterproofing of the foundation, the clay roof tiles, and even the mailboxes. Instead, we have plastic roof tiles, vinyl windows, and fiberglass doors. Remember when we had cob construction? First that turned into dura panels made of recycled rice hulls. But even those are now largely gone, replaced with plastic panels. They call them fiber-reinforced plastic. What are they thinking? If they don't have any firm bids, why are they turning this into a plastic palace? Is this really what we want? But wait, there's actually more. One cost item in this budget is the sewer hookup charge. This is assessed by the Ojai Valley Sanitation District based on how many capacity units your project needs.

Each capacity unit costs $16,000 per the sanitation district. In your resolution 25-19, it says the cabin village will need 17 capacity units. So the hookup charge for this project is pretty simple math. 17 capacity units times $16,000, or $275,000. Want to guess how much is in the Dignity Moves budget for this line item? $25,000. They're short by a quarter million dollars on this one line item alone, and that's not subject to debate. What does this say about the quality of the budget, and what does it say about Dignity Moves putting this type of document in front of us? Frankly, I don't want to characterize it any more than is obvious. The bottom line is you should reject this budget and make Dignity give you one that is both believable and in keeping with our original commitments, if that's possible.

Or you could just give them their walking papers and start fresh with somebody who actually knows what they're doing. Thank

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role1:41:08

you. Thank you, Mr. Quilici. Joe Oberle, Diana Tharlson, and then Bill Miley.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed1:41:18

Hi, thank you for having me. Hello. This is my first time here, actually. Is this the time to ask questions? Or is that another portion? Not so much questions. You just make a statement and we receive it. That's it. Is there a time to ask questions at another time?

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role1:41:32

Well, we're way into the process, so in this comment, you speak, and then if there's a question that maybe a staff person can answer, but it's not a back and forth at this moment.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed1:41:41

Sure. I didn't have questions about the budget. It was who was going to reside there and whatnot. Those types of questions.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role1:41:48

Let's answer that offline because there's a lot of conversation and a lot of detail around that.

1:41 – 1:5329 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 17Proposed1:41:57

Great, thank you. Yes,

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 4Proposed1:41:58

sir. Yeah, I was just saying that there's a Frequently Asked Questions section on the website about the project, and we're always available to talk anything through with you. Sure.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role1:42:08

But basically, Rick, with

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 4Proposed1:42:09

help of Ojai and the county,

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role1:42:10

etc. Okay.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 4Proposed1:42:11

Yeah.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role1:42:11

Great, thank you. No, super.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 4Proposed1:42:11

Don't be afraid to reach out. We're, yeah.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role1:42:14

Thank you, sir. Okay, Diana Tharlson, Bill Miley, and Larry Stengelt. Is Diana here? Oh, great. Thanks. Hi. Thank you.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 12Proposed1:42:34

Okay, but in the past two years, I've seen a bit of a change with homelessness, people sleeping on benches when I have to do things at night and have to walk through town. I'm being talked to about spare change. And I thought, wait a minute, this is not the Ojai I moved to, and this is only eight years

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 15Proposed1:42:52

ago.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 12Proposed1:42:53

I don't like that at all. I went to the, what do you call it, cabin village, tent city, and tried to Thank you very much. I recommend that there is a school or something where we can actually teach them to deal with life, the ones that are strong, and I'm not talking about handicapped, injured, mentally not able to be part of the society. But I, yeah, is there any meeting where we can bring up things like that?

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role1:43:39

We had a panel in February where we talked about this, but the demographics are two-thirds are actually senior aged. So that has been discussed quite a bit, but help of Ojai would be a great person, or working with the city separately to see who's there. But most are not strong men ready to work. At least that's what the numbers

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 12Proposed1:43:58

show.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role1:43:59

Fair

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 12Proposed1:43:59

enough. What about the homelessness when they sleep on the benches? What is it with that? Is the word going around that Ojai is the place to be because they take care of you?

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role1:44:09

Well, I would encourage you to do is watch the panel that we did in February because we had the county and the police talking about homelessness here. And it might feel like it's more, it's the same. I mean, whatever. That doesn't mean your experience isn't true. But it is something that we spent a lot of time on.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 12Proposed1:44:25

All right. Thank you. My

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role1:44:26

pleasure. Okay. Thanks. Thank you. And then Bill Miley and then Larry Stengelt.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 18Proposed1:44:42

Hello. Hello. Let's see. Do I have a qualified comment about building costs and materials? I just made one up. What about the density of the plywood being considered? Hell, I don't know a thing about building materials and costs. So, my preference would have been that the Planning Commission review this detailed document They know building details and construction processes. Also, the other city body with credible review processes is the Finance and Budget Committee because of the money issue. I would have liked them to have reviewed this document. Reviewing the document is just beyond me. Thank you.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role1:45:38

Thank you, Mr. Miley. Larry Stangle, please.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 19Proposed1:45:46

Larry Steingle, thank you for pushing the heat up. I agree with Mr. Creasy on a whole lot of things. I looked at the budget refinements through value engineering. Great phrase. We spec'd it out, it came in too high, now we're going to make it less. And we make it less, and we make it less, and we make it less, and now my granddaughter's little textile house that she can walk in is probably as nice. But when things are spec'd, All right. By the contractor. I know they talked about the damping. I know they talked about that. And thank you, Mr. Whitman, for bringing that up. All right. It's downhill. All right. Water is flowing. It's going to go past the building. They don't want to dampen. They don't want to do this for the other side. But it's going to pool.

Okay. It's going to settle. The water is going to be there. If it's spec'd, it was spec'd for a reason, all right? Not because of the dura, whatever that's still, I think, on the budget line, number six, all right, the dura. Okay, because you were pressured to do cob, you're pressured to do this. I have a plywood roof, fine. Okay, we all have plywood roofs. Sheetrock, we all have sheetrock, no disrespect, all right? But if it gets damp, it's moldy, you know, look, this is where it is. I think we can do better. I mean, we only get one shot at this.

All right, and if Mr. Quilici is right, we owe it to him and to the state to go, hey, can we push this back six months, nine months, a year, find a better site, whatever. Okay, we got the money, the 10 towns going, things are moving along. Yes, people don't like it, but we could do better, because we can do better. Thank you.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role1:47:47

Thank you, Mr. Steingold. Mr. Montgomery, anything online?

ElectedKim MangMayor Pro TemProposedvoiceprint 0.641:47:50

Yes, Mayor. Our Zoom participants, we are on item seven, and we have one raised hand from Dean right now. Dean, you may unmute, and you have the floor. Dean, I'll ask you to unmute again, if you're still present with us. I see no action from Dean, Mayor, and we have no more raised hands, so we can move on.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role1:48:13

Okay. On to discussion. Hello. Hello. Oh, sorry. Yes, on the discussion. There you are. Thank you. Sorry. I'm sorry.

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.791:48:22

Hello.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role1:48:23

Hello. Yes, come in, please.

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.791:48:25

Okay, I am just going to jump right in and make a motion that we reject the budget and schedule of Dignity Moves is not fulfilling the agreement. I would like to hear, obviously, discussion on this, but I have tried and tried and tried to make that square peg fit into a round hole, and it doesn't. And with the Changes that have occurred, which is that the Resiliency Center at the Honor Farm, I'll speak about that first, that sort of synergy really is a gift. The Honor Farm is going, the Fire Safe Council will be bolstered by having supportive housing there. And supportive housing will be bolstered by having resiliency there. Now, we don't know how that's going to play out, but here's the deal. With AB 130, we've been given until April of 2026 to expend 50% of the money.

And we've been given until April of 2028 to build the whole thing. So the timelines have changed. And so that need for expediency and the rush I mean, we still have to move, but we can move more slowly. We can find out if the Honor Farm is actually a possibility. I was at the county supervisors. They gave land use permit to Camarillo. Thank you very much. Excuse me, we never investigated that. I mean, the ability, so what that allows us is if we were going to do mobile tiny homes at the Honor Farm, the resiliency center could come in and those mobile homes could be moved to different places. In other words, there is a domino, sort of a dependency on the resiliency center. But all of that being said, here's the problem. This is not a budget.

There's no figures related to it. There's nothing behind it. You know, the RFP, RFQ process was not done properly. We were contacted by, you know, the industry watch group saying that, you know, dignity moves actually hadn't put the proper notices up, so now we're into February of next year. So, you know, and I don't know what pre-qualified contractors mean. If we go over, there's nothing in the Dignity Moves budget that says they're going to be responsible for paying that. So what happens is we either pay it or we reduce even further the scope. We no longer have natural building. You've heard it all over the last three or four speakers, but to me, they've made a great case. And I look at what the alternative is, and I think, is it possible at the Arner Farm?

Can we talk? Thank you very much. Thank you. With an actual budget and we'll look at it. But meanwhile, I would like to propose that we do a feasibility study at the Honor Farm and find out what is really possible. I was, I'm completely disappointed in what came back to us. There's no figures. There's no, there's no numbers. The schedule is almost unreadable. It's just, It's so floppy that I just simply can't vote for it. And everyone who knows me knows that I have been the strongest proponent of this project and have willingly gone to the maintenance yard. But that ship for me, I mean, I don't want to take it off the table, but I want to look at the Honor Farm as an option. And I want Dignity Moves to come back to us with an actual budget where we can, I mean, you know,

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Thank you very much.

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1:53 – 2:0551 turns

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role1:53:53

At, let's say, Summit School, for example, that the Fire Safe Council is looking at a two-year feasibility study for that resiliency center at Summit. So it isn't that we would say, oh great, there's going to be a resiliency center, let's go ahead with the other project. We're probably talking about something similar in time to see if that's even feasible for it to be there. And it's not a slam dunk that it's going to be there.

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.791:54:18

No, I understand we're talking about the Honor Farm. That's what

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role1:54:22

I am saying.

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.791:54:23

I'm saying it's similar. Yes, but they have a two-year window. They're nine months into it. And what I'm saying is that with the idea of the Fire Safe Council going to the supervisors and having that kind of leverage is so much stronger than Ojai going and saying, You know, let us have the honor farm for our 30, you know, for our 30 units.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role1:54:50

Sorry if I wasn't being clear. What I was trying to suggest is that if we say there's problems with the budget that we need more detail, that I totally get that part. The second part, I guess I want to say is it looks more rosy because we don't have the facts.

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.791:55:03

No, I agree. We don't have the facts. And I have not been a supporter. We don't have the facts, but I think the world changes when you bring in the fire safe council, you bring in a resiliency center, and we don't have the facts. Matt, I mean, Matt Levere, who knows, but he did write verbatim that a lot, not a lot, some of his reluctance and or putting it out that it wasn't a possibility had to do with the time frame. And how long it would take. We don't know about SOAR. There's a lot we don't know, but we have four to six months to try to figure it out and get a better sense. Meanwhile, let Dignity Moves do what they do and come back to us with an actual proposal. My problem is I don't want to stop Dignity Moves. But I also don't want to run the risk of saying that we shouldn't have a feasibility study at the Honor Farm, because I so strongly feel that we should.

So I want to combine the two in an attempt to have my cake and eat it, too. So that's kind of where I stand. It's not that I don't want to— Yeah. Yeah.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 20Proposed1:56:21

So just a note, from tonight's agenda item on a Brown Act perspective is receive and file, or not receive and not file, the Dignity Moves budget. Those are the two options that the Council can take action tonight. As a future agenda item, at a future meeting, on the agenda, the Council could absolutely direct staff to complete a feasibility study of the Honor Farm in light of the new comments, apparently, from Supervisor LeVere. Until the Council takes separate action, At that future item, which could be to cancel the contract with Dignity Moves or otherwise go down that road. Those options exist. But tonight, the options are receive and file or not receive and not file and direct Dignity Moves to try again, which was inherent, I think, in your motion.

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.791:57:02

Right. What is what exactly does not receive and not file? How is that different from I mean, what does that essentially mean? Does that mean, you know, it's a no go or does it mean

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 20Proposed1:57:14

It would mean that the Council has rejected the budget as submitted.

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.791:57:17

Okay, thank you.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 20Proposed1:57:18

Which isn't yet a termination of the DMA agreement. That would have to be a separate

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.791:57:23

item.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 20Proposed1:57:24

Or give Dignity Moves another chance to try

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.791:57:27

again. We could not accept the budget and make a motion to extend Dignity Moves Councilor Anderson? Councilor Anderson? Councilor

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 20Proposed1:57:41

Anderson?

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.791:58:00

Mr. Harvey, do you have something

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role1:58:11

you want to

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call1:58:13

add? This is not on the agenda, but there's been a lot of discussion about the location, and I just have to say this because I discussed this at length with the prior council. So I spent months working with the county, including Supervisor LeVere and the county CAO, you know, and real estate division exploring not only the Honor Farm, but also the public works, the county public works maintenance yard in Miner's Oak.

County Soule Park and Camp Comfort. We looked at all sites that basically could potentially be used for this project, potentially, that were county properties. And after months of site visits and exploration, the unified response from the county, from Supervisor Revere, from, you know, CAO Savette Johnson, was that they were unable to move forward with any of those locations. And there were a number of reasons. They primarily were due to operational concerns, also long-term leases. It was not due to the timing. It was due to their prior commitments and other designs and interests with those properties. And I discussed this at length with the prior council. No disrespect to the supervisor, but it's more than just the supervisor deciding that a property is up and available at the county.

And I don't believe that the supervisor, you know, has changed his position on this because I feel that I would have been made aware of that. But I just think that needs to be said, that this is something I spent months on and I talked at length about in the prior council.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role1:59:51

I asked him very directly and he said it's up to zero non-starter. So, but he's not here, and I'd rather have him speak if we need him to

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call2:00:00

speak. But again, the point being, so the supervisor is an elected official representing a district. There's much more involved in that in making a decision at the county level over real estate, and that's why I took it to the CAO, the Chief Administrative Officer of the entire county, who has jurisdictional authority over the departments involved, including works, real estate, parks and recreation, et cetera, et cetera. Well,

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 20Proposed2:00:24

if I could add to that, it may be the case that one supervisor is interested in the Honor Farm again, but that's one of five. We don't have the last definitive answer we received from the county in writing was no. The council could ask again, add a future agenda item to make that ask. And maybe the answer is

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:00:41

different now. But see, to me, that's different than saying we have a budget that we would like some work on. That's a different question altogether, it seems to me. And that's what's before us, really.

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.792:00:52

Okay, so I'm not going to vote for this budget. And what I don't—I'm not going to vote for this budget. I'm not going to

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:01:08

vote for this.

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.792:01:09

So, you know, maybe we could have a special session. I still think that the game changer is the Resiliency Center at the Honor Farm.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:01:20

I

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.792:01:20

just,

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:01:20

you

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.792:01:20

know, so maybe we have, that's why I'm asking for a feasibility study. It's not on the agenda. That's fine. Let's have a special meeting tomorrow for 15 minutes. Let's put it on the agenda or,

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:01:31

you know, within two days. Let's pause for the moment if we can. Yes. But I want to hear from my other council people.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 10Proposed2:01:36

Yes,

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.792:01:36

please.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 10Proposed2:01:36

Thank you. Well, I'm in support of Leslie of, you know, not accepting this budget and giving dignity moves, say, 90 days for review. That takes us to, like, December 2nd to come in with actual numbers. All that, so many of the things that we, you know, have agreed on, they're just not here. And that's, you know, I was pretty confident back in May when this came up and, you know, everybody was talking about it and, okay, you know, give us the time to do it. Ben, you said, you know, that We would receive a budget that has consistent with the Design Review and Planning Commission, consistent with the project cost cap, detailed enough to show cost per unit and per common area. Don't have that.

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call2:02:22

Taylor... That actually is in here. It does, it actually does tell you that.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 10Proposed2:02:26

Taylor said...

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call2:02:28

But actually, can we hold on a second? Because you're asking for something that has been delivered. It actually says it's like 300 something per unit. Right. Hey, Ms. Johnson, you can point me to that section in the budget.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 21Proposed2:02:40

It's an attachment A on the first page. Is it the very bottom of the yellow?

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call2:02:46

Well, there are, and that's, Council wants some different numbers, okay, but these are a lot of numbers and a lot of figures, and we've spent the last several weeks going through this at length, city side with dignity. So we've spent a lot of time on the numbers. So if there's some particular number you don't like, we'd like to know about that. But there are a lot of numbers here, including the cost per unit, including the compliance with the DMA. So that is, actually we are delivering that.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:03:13

So I guess the question that brought up, which seems legitimate enough, would be if we find that something goes over on the actual execution, who's responsible for the overage?

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call2:03:25

The cost of the project for the city is $9.5 million. That is our cost.

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.792:03:31

There's nothing in their contract that says that they have to pay any overage. So, there's nothing in the contract that makes them liable for any overage. So, I don't know. You

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 20Proposed2:03:43

tell me. The contract is structured that the City's maximum commitment is $9.5 million. So we would expect that Dignity Movers would not spend more than $9.5 million, hence the value of

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call2:03:54

engineering.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 20Proposed2:03:56

Right. If they spend more than $9.5 million, we're only, the city is only paying for $9.5 million. So the expectation is that they will spend less than or equal to $9.5 million to achieve the design at issue, hence the value of engineering. So the expectation is that they'll simply value engineer it down with the approval of the city to get there.

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call2:04:15

The idea of having a ceiling is that there is a ceiling. You cannot spend more than this. That way you can't go over the amount. That is the whole reason why we did that. Do you want to come up to

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:04:25

the podium and say something

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 20Proposed2:04:26

or no? Dignity Moves contract will be structured to not spend more than that price tag between the contractor and Dignity Moves. That's what we'd expect. And the

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.792:04:35

scope will remain the same?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 20Proposed2:04:37

The scope, well, that's the, once the Council approves the designs, or the final designs, the scope will be the scope as value engineered, plus whatever comes out of the bidding process.

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.882:04:46

So anything that's not built because of the budget we agree upon either doesn't become a part of the project or the city pays for what that is. Correct. If we decide that these units shouldn't be concrete floor, they should have some type of floor covering. If we approve this project, we pay for all the floor covering.

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call2:05:14

Or it's donated, which is what their model has been. And I think that they've got a proven track record of doing that, and you can look at many examples of that.

2:05 – 2:2033 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 13Proposed2:05:25

Well, I just wanted to reiterate that our contract, we are committed to $9.5 million. I wanted to just address the issue of what the budget represents, if I may. We have a coordinated set of design development drawings. Yes, it's a working project. This is 80 pages of engineering and architectural drawings. This is what's reflected. In our budget. So to say that it represents nothing, that is incorrect. I take great exception to that. We've worked very hard to develop a design that is commensurate with what we have been given planning commission approval to do. And I think that we have, in good faith, conducted a very transparent public process and that all of this information is available On the city's website, including the four detailed bids from our four qualified bidders and our complete set of coordinated design development drawings.

It's a normal part of the construction process to work on developing a design and documenting and making decisions that will align with the budget, and we are committed. We're not working in a vacuum. We're working with our partners At the City of Ojai to make decisions together. So we'll respectfully, you know, listen and comply as we have for many, many months, couple of years now and continue with you.

To say that this budget is based on nothing is not correct. These drawings are available for your review, as are the contractor feasibility proposals, which were very detailed.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:07:23

Thank

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 13Proposed2:07:23

you.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:07:24

Mr. Seibert, may I? Let me just ask a quick question. If I could put you on the spot just for two seconds. Mr. Seibert, if I could. Yeah, when you see what's in front of us that we're looking at, does it seem reasonable, on par, something you would say, yep, this makes sense at this stage of the process? From a design standpoint? Or what are we talking about here, from a budget standpoint? Well, I'm not asking you to look at budget items per piece. I guess what I'm saying is the consideration that we're wondering is we don't have one contractor that we've decided on, they've looked at, if I understood correctly, four. So we have an educated, not ballpark seems like too loose, but something like not a firm number. Is that a reasonable way to go forward?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 22Proposed2:08:08

Right. It's not a firm number like down to the penny. I agree with that. Absolutely. But you have four, you have four firms that are going to come in with a bid and they're going to all be competitive. They've all seen, this is kind of an interesting scenario because it's a two-step process. One I haven't necessarily seen directly, indirectly, following in from other cities.

The interesting thing is this two-step process really kind of allows for each of these bidders to kind of peer into the dynamics and the intricacies of each individual firm, or contractor in this case, in terms of what they are potentially going to be providing into the future. And I get the sense that when they're seeing the lowest bid, it's likely that you're going to see the other three follow suit to

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 23Proposed2:08:59

that.

not transcribed≈10s of audible speech the AI couldn’t make out▸ listen
UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:09:25

Burgess, Taylor Anderson, Weston Montgomery, Bethany

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 22Proposed2:09:26

Burgess, Taylor Anderson, Weston Montgomery It's an interesting process that we've gone through, but I was a little bit skeptical of it when I was first looking at it, but seeing it kind of pan out, it has some interesting dynamics to it, so.

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.882:09:41

Okay,

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 3Proposed2:09:42

thank you.

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.882:09:45

So I have, were you finished? Go ahead. Okay. So first I want to just make clear, I'm not against Spending money to address homelessness. But I am concerned that we're walking down the right path in how we address that. I've said this many times, permanent supportive housing is the most expensive and provides assistance to the least number of people of any of the strategies for addressing homelessness.

So there's lots of strategies for addressing homelessness. In fact, we're going to talk about one later in the agenda. So I would prefer that we were spending our money in a manner that benefits more Ojai residents. In fact, the current plan is not limited to a lot of places.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:10:50

Mr. Whitman, if I might just ask you, so you're talking about the whole plan again, and I guess what I'm, it seems to me what we want to say is we're talking about accepting or rejecting this budget for this project, not permanent supportive housing in general. I'm explaining to you why I'm not going to, why I'm not going to approve of this budget. Well, no, that's fine, but then to say what you said before about wanting a different homeless addressing plan, we totally get where you're coming from.

And it's okay. I'm just explaining. I'm not trying to set you down. I'm trying to say I think we understand where you're coming

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.882:11:24

from. The way that I've read through the proposed budget, and I'm a little bit like Bill Miley when I'm looking at it, but I'm seeing that there's what I would understand to be significant expense that's not covered If we adopt this, there's a hope that there's going to be donations and, you know, maybe the 90-day period would be a time to figure out how much we're going to get in donations.

I'm also concerned that the county hasn't joined with us, with the city being one quarter of the population of the valley, such that the county should be taking about a three quarters financial responsibility if they're taking care of their residents. I'm also concerned that If we adopt the budget, we're heading down a path that violates the general plan, which says that, as a city, we will not impose a regional problem on a single neighborhood. My recollection is that the project, before it went to planning, there was talk about modular construction, and then the Planning Commission wanted corncob construction, That apparently, I'm just about to wrap up, that apparently is not feasible or cost effective.

And now, I have no idea whether Mr. Creasy is correct in calling it a plastic palace, but I wonder if we haven't removed so much from the plan that the Planning Commission approved that we shouldn't just be looking at modular units that are pre-constructed, because I think those go for a lot less than $300,000 a unit. And I don't think that the budget makes sense for the city, and so I'm going to vote no. Thank you.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:13:53

Yes, please, Ms.

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.882:13:54

Lang.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 4Proposed2:13:54

Okay. I'm frankly surprised by where this conversation is going because every step of the way, we have looked at these plans, we've analyzed the contract, it's gone before planning. We have been a part of this process and even a part of the budget. When I look at these budget numbers, there are There are aspects that they've included that we specifically brought into our conversations with them and that we asked staff to talk to them about. And so I am in support of receiving and filing this budget. I think, you know, we could talk about a feasibility study for the Honor Farm or another property at a different meeting. And, you know, that's a consideration that we're not talking about tonight, but that we can bookmark and come back to.

I don't want to kill the project or delay the project. I mean, we have people who are living in tents right now. And to say 90 more days, I mean, that potentially could have consequences in terms of when it's actually finished. And we're going to have people suffering for more time than they need to. It's not compassionate and it's not considering the ultimate purpose for why we're building this or why we're moving forward with this project.

I'm still not clear why there are questions around the budget. It seems very detailed to me. I'm with Bill Miley. I know I don't usually look at construction budgets. It just seems to me like this is ready to go, and now we're putting a big roadblock in the overall project, which is housing the most vulnerable in our community.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:16:16

I guess I want to echo that and say that for me, the questions that I had about the budget around how much we can use earthen materials, that to me, that shortcoming I believe can be overcome and I'm hearing that gesture. I know I'm eager for that. So my feeling is I do not want to delay the project either. Again, I think it's very similar to the same thing that we have seen in the past, which is something else looks good because we don't know the details yet. And so I'm surprised that we're having this conversation again today, but I guess, Ms. Rule, I'm If we, I would suggest that we do file and receive this, they proceed, and if we feel there's something we have to look at at the Honor Farm, I'm willing to entertain that, but I would not like to stop the process because I think the likelihood is that it does seem like it's, we've been moving down that road for months that it is going to be here.

I mean, at the South Signal lot. So if this jeopardizes that, that concerns me greatly.

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.792:17:20

I understand that. I just feel, I feel that this project is on shifting stands, and I felt that for a long time, but I've been willing to stand with it. But right now, we still don't know if the land is toxic or not. The next plan is to swoop all of that dirty, toxic dirt up and then put more holes in to see if there's more lead in there. So, and,

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:17:49

That's not the plan right now, Ms. Rule.

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.792:17:52

No, it is the

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:17:53

plan. Here's the planners here.

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.792:17:57

No, I'm talking about Rincon would have to be

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:17:59

here. Mr. Seibert, I think, could speak to that. They're nodding their heads no in response to

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.792:18:08

what you're saying. You're not going to be drilling down into... Well, that's all irrelevant anyway because we don't really know about the toxicology of it. You know, that's going to cost us half a million dollars or whatever. It doesn't matter if it comes out of the grant or if it comes out of our money because whatever we take out of the grant, we're going to put in with our general fund anyway. So it comes out...

I'm

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:18:35

not

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.792:18:35

understanding the

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:18:36

arguments that you're making right now.

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.792:18:38

Okay, what I'm saying is that we don't even know that the maintenance yard is actually going to play out. We haven't finished that whole process with the contaminants. We haven't done that. Would you mind hearing

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 20Proposed2:18:50

from Mr. Seibert if that's true? I think you need some staff support.

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call2:18:53

We actually do know where that stands. Do you want to elaborate on that?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 22Proposed2:18:56

So there's a couple of things. One is there was an additional boring test that was done, and that's where we've identified really kind of that plume area, which is all subterranean, the aluminum piece. And that's what RENCON has put together in terms of a proposal. That's what this body saw. I want to say last meeting or two meetings ago. And on top of that, that's where we started talking about DTSC also being oversight and then identifying some future discussions in regards to what their budget's going to be for that oversight. So essentially having RINCON go out and do the remediation for the removal of that soil, not only for the soil subsurface, but also that dirty soil that was brought on site.

Both of those areas are going to be cleaned up. DTSC is identifying that there'll be the oversight for that, which is what this body wanted to see in the first place. And certainly we've already, staff's already had those conversations with DTSC to get that formalized. The budget piece is something that'll have to come back to this body for DTSC. Hold on. Because it's a separate item, I was identifying at that time it was right around $60,000. You said that before. Yeah, which I anticipate will be lower because they'll be working with what Rincon already has in terms of proposal.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 20Proposed2:20:13

And Mr. Harvey has more information on the

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call2:20:16

grant. So, the disposal of the soil is something that is covered by the grant. That's been confirmed by HCD. In fact, I did forward an email to all of you on that topic, I think yesterday or the day before, very recently. And the extent of the toxicity is already, is known. That is known. We have established what it is, where it is, and what to do to remove it. That's all been completed. That's not an

2:20 – 2:2725 turns

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.792:20:41

unknown. Can I ask one question? So the plan is not to scoop up all of that dirty soil and then to bore holes into the side to figure out that that is not in the plan. We're not going to do any testing once we pick up all of that dirty dirt.

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call2:20:59

They've already done their testing to determine where the soil issues are. Mr.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:21:05

Quilici, now's not the time for that.

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.792:21:07

It's OK. Yeah, I mean, it's fine. I don't

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call2:21:10

Yeah, they've already done all that effort to make that determination. That's what we paid them to do. And so now we're in the phase where, you know, it's the disposal of the soil that's been determined to be needing to be removed.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 20Proposed2:21:22

Mr. Seibert has a clarification that may be

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 22Proposed2:21:24

helpful. Mr. Rule, to your point, the boring piece is something that's already been done. I think what you're speaking to specifically is what Rincon was talking about, which once the soil is extracted and removed, there will be testing done along the walls of the area to determine if all of it has been removed. If not, then there will be digs taken until when those testings are done, it comes up clean.

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.792:21:51

I understood them to say that we're going to go into the side, but I could have been mistaken on that. But point being, that even when that all is taken up, there is still more testing to do. And to the point that, this is minutiae, but Mr. Harvey, to the point that the money will come out of the grant, it doesn't really matter because if it didn't come out, I mean, If it comes out of the grant, that's fine. That's that much less that we will have to put to operations in the next years.

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call2:22:27

Well, no, actually, I would refute that, too, because the budget, the way we've put it together, we actually have allocated appropriately for the remediation of the soil. And if there is a need to go beyond what we've allocated in that section, we have a contingency in the ERF grant, too. So that we do not have to tap into the $2 million in future operating subsidies. That's how we structured it.

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.792:22:51

But if we didn't spend it, we would then have $2.5 million. Ms.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:22:54

Rule, if I

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.792:22:55

might, so it seems to me... We're

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:22:57

getting off track. I'm not trying to get into the minutiae. What I'm trying to say is that, for example, when I learned that Mesa was attempting to go to the Honor Farm first, just as our case in point, there were millions of dollars in infrastructure that persuaded them away from the project. So that's why I'm saying is every time something else comes up as a property, we say, oh, look at the money we're spending right now. This other one looks great. It may turn out to be more money. We just don't know it. But we do know this. We don't know that. So it

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.792:23:27

looks better. I agree, but I'm not happy with this. And what I will say is that we're building something not for a year. We're building something to last 20 or 30 years. So if it takes another six months or another nine months, In the end, the urgency, it really isn't there. We're building something for 30 years, hopefully. So if it's six months more or nine months more, to be more sure, and like I said, there may be problems with infrastructure. We don't really know.

I mean, maybe, maybe there was. I mean, I've heard all kinds of things about the Honor Farm and that there were problems with it. But in the end, I believe that with the Fire Safe Council, and maybe they get the Honor Farm, maybe they don't, but with their With their leverage and their ability to build a resiliency center, it makes perfect sense that you would put supportive housing there. It makes perfect sense. You're saying it as if

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:24:45

it's a fact, and to me there's so many variables, it's a million miles from a fact.

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.792:24:51

Well, I'm just saying that, you know, if you put 30 people there at a resiliency center and you have a catastrophe, those 30 people are already there. And if three-quarters of them are mobility challenged, well, that's 30 people that you don't have to rescue when you can rescue 30 other people. That's my thinking. But

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:25:10

that's using, like, an exceptional moment to define what's going to be the 99.9% of the longevity of the project.

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.792:25:19

But the point is that the Resiliency Center has to build all kinds of services that's part of their grant. It's not just to build the Resiliency Center, but it's also to build all of the support services. It's got to be many, many, many other things. And I believe that having, you know, a supportive housing unit, supportive housing there, It would be great. It would be great for the Resiliency Center. It would be great for the support of housing.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:25:50

So let's stop on that because you're not going to vote for this. Yeah, it's okay. Okay. So it seems we don't all have the votes to receive the budget.

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.882:25:59

Well, so there was a, I think, Council Member Rule made a motion and it got edited. What's the motion? The

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.792:26:10

motion is, well, what I wanted to have happen, and apparently we can't do this, I wanted to not stop the project, but have the dignity moves come back with actual bids.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 20Proposed2:26:27

So, you know, free

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.792:26:29

qualification, you know, to come back with actual bids and an actual budget and an actual timeline. I mean, their time has slipped. They didn't put in notices correctly. I mean, that was just a crazy, crazy thing. And, you know, there was a big brouhaha about it that was just sloughed off. Sorry, I'm just

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:26:52

asking you to clarify your motion. My

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.792:26:54

motion is that we delay the approval of this until we get actual numbers and actual building specs. I'm very unhappy with what came back. That doesn't mean that if they were to come back with actual numbers that I could really evaluate and Council Member Rule, can I suggest that you not use the word actual?

2:27 – 2:4259 turns

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.882:27:31

Because that's going to cause indigestion for Dignity Moves. If you said more detail, then the motion would be that they come back to us within, you know, I don't know when,

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.792:27:47

but

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.882:27:47

with more detail on the budget.

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.792:27:50

I want an official bid. That's what I want.

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.882:27:53

Please come

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:27:53

up.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 13Proposed2:27:56

I think that we may be all talking about the same thing. So we are working now. We have been meeting with our consulting engineers and with our team. We have committed to 10 weeks to complete our construction documents. We will submit for building permit on November 7, and we will go out for bid on November 7. We can conduct a public bid if the preference is that we go back out And notify as a public bid, or as we planned, we can go to our four pre-qualified bidders. The reason we wanted to pre-qualify, just so everybody understands, is that we wanted to get a contractor that would be acknowledged to be an expert in sustainable design, that would be a great partner to us. I mean, all of our criteria, you guys have all seen the criteria, but notwithstanding the important takeaway Ms.

Rule is that we will be ready to go to bid on November 7. We can then allow, we need to allow for a reasonable period, so I'd say three to four weeks, so that's early December. We can have, we can submit Final bids. And those would be these initial feasibility cost assessments. You know, we didn't want to call them a final bid because it's based on a design development set of drawings. Now we'll go back, we'll, given 10 weeks, we'll finish the project, finish our documentation, and go for a public bid.

At that point I believe that that doesn't slow anything down. We move forward and that bid has to be accepted by City Council. I mean the date that we that we have shown in the report is the somewhere here I saw the date of the Council presentation, you all have to approve. So that is a real bid. That's a proper commitment by a contractor to build our project. I think that's what you're looking for. You're

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:30:11

essentially asking to proceed.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 13Proposed2:30:13

I'm asking to proceed, yeah.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:30:17

Because you're going to file your permits, you said November 7th, and then it will

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 13Proposed2:30:19

go out to

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:30:20

bid.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 13Proposed2:30:20

Yeah, same day we go out to bid. So what you want to do, you want to be sure that you have all your permit comments. There are many, many things that come up during the permit review process that could have an impact. So before you sign on the dotted line with the contractor, you have to be able to provide any changes that are a result of the AHJ, you know, the authority having jurisdiction, fire, building, anybody that might potentially change the project. So that sequence is what is outlined in our schedule. That's our current schedule.

Finish the drawings, go out for bid November 7, and then we didn't allow just a week to appoint a contractor. We have a negotiation period, but the essential, what you want are the actual cost proposals from a contractor, the offer to build our project. And it has to be in accordance with the design and specifications that we all agree that you approve. So that's the protection.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:31:29

How does that sit with you, Ms. Rule?

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.792:31:34

So what you're saying is, is that this is just an interim step anyway? And that you were going to come back with a bid?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 13Proposed2:31:40

Well, yeah, hopefully under. I mean, our goal is to be under. But yeah, this is a cost proposal, you know, this is a cost analysis, a budget that is based on input from four potential bidders. But these four bidders, and remember, we have to take the low bidder. We have to take the low bidder. So we need to make sure that this pool of applicants and that the information that we're getting is by, you know, from folks that are qualified to actually build this to the standard that we

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.792:32:18

require. So what is the difference between you coming back with an actual bid? What's the difference between us not receiving and filing? and you coming back with a real bid and us approving it, or us receiving and filing and you coming back with a real bid and us approving it. In other words, why is the step even here if you have to come back with a real bid to approve? Why are we even doing this right now?

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call2:32:49

I can answer that question. We're doing this because your DMA requires that you receive the budget and the schedule. That was during the time of discussion of adoption of the DMA. That was a desire that there would be a budget included. It wasn't ready at that time, and so this is fulfilling that deliverable, the budget and the schedule. Right,

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.792:33:10

and I'm saying this isn't a budget. This

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call2:33:12

isn't a budget. Three months ago. Three months ago. But if you're asking why we're here, that's why we're here.

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.792:33:18

Well, what I understood it was is that we would come back and we would have a budget, not that we would have numbers extrapolated from four different bids and not having gone out. That's not what I understood. What I understood was we were going to get a budget. We don't have a budget. It's a preliminary budget. It's a could-change budget. Scope could change. Money could change. I mean,

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call2:33:43

to come back. Well, the money can't. So, this is the prior discussion we had. Actually, the DMA says it can't.

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.792:33:49

That's the only thing

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call2:33:50

that can't change. That can't change. But I am hearing

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.792:33:52

that. But there's nothing in the contract. I mean, okay.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 10Proposed2:33:56

Well, didn't it say, like, if I'm just going over my notes, I have so many of them, that, so a completed RFP issued for bid was originally set for July 15th, and now you're saying that's November 7th, correct?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 13Proposed2:34:09

So, originally, we wanted to negotiate with a contractor. We were then required by the city To conduct a transparent public bid process. So, knowing that we wanted to pre-qualify, that we didn't want everybody and their brother bidding on our project, we wanted to be able to pre-qualify, basically. Well, it

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call2:34:33

was more than that. If I could, Ms. Boyer, one of the issues was we had a lot of manufacturers of modular We didn't want somebody who normally builds modular units bidding on this because they were not going to be able to build this project. This is not a factory-built project.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 13Proposed2:34:53

And because of who we are and because we work so much with modular, there are many interested contractors that are modular. And based on our criteria, we rejected those. This is a very

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:35:18

serious question. When you come back, hypothetically, let's say we file and receive, you go forward with your permits, you go out to bid, you come back with your final bid, Presumably, if we have a serious concern on any of the items, that will be addressed at that time, and we'll have to figure it out, right? I think

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call2:35:35

that's

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 13Proposed2:35:36

for Ben to answer, yeah.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:35:37

Ben?

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call2:35:38

Yeah, I mean,

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 13Proposed2:35:38

I think

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call2:35:39

the headline is, you know, the DMA requires them to build this project as designed, and it requires them to build it for the price as specified in the DMA. They are contractually obligated to do that. They are required to build the project at that number. Right, if there's a material depart from the design that was recommended by the Planning Commission and approved by the Council. So far, there's not, you know, in the numbers that you're seeing in this budget, they reflect the design that has been reviewed by the Planning Commission and approved by the City Council. And that's why our Community Development Director has been at the table the entire time to hold their feet to the fire to say, no, that's inconsistent. Yes, I will agree with that.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:36:40

Yes.

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.882:36:41

Okay. Is this the plan that the Planning Commission put together? Because it seems like it's got a lot of differences.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 22Proposed2:36:50

So if you're talking about, like, can you give me one example of...

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.882:36:54

I

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 22Proposed2:36:54

guess the

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.882:36:54

biggest one is they were really gung-ho on corncob construction.

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.792:37:01

As was everyone in Ojai. As was everyone

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.882:37:04

in Ojai. So that, my understanding, you know, that's gone.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 22Proposed2:37:08

Right,

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.792:37:08

that's

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.882:37:08

gone.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 22Proposed2:37:09

I'd like to have Dylan speak to the corncob construction in that piece, just specifically.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 14Proposed2:37:17

There was a time that we were considering straw bale construction, but cob was never part of the project. It was discussed that the term was used, but we never designed anything for cob. Frankly, that cob is a material that I've personally never worked with. It's typically used for small structures, not large ones. Straw bale is a possibility. Frankly, that is something we're still considering. It is likely going to cost more than the DuraPanel, the compressed straw panel. So we're doing everything we can to find natural materials that fit the aesthetics and the budget, and I think the overall goal is that the community

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:38:03

My understanding, we would have loved to have this completely new sort of construction and then it quickly altered to some sort of hybrid. That's how I saw it from the very beginning. That we would have to figure out what is the state of that hybrid, but it was never going to be.

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.882:38:19

But the hybrid has not been in front of

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:38:21

planning.

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.882:38:23

I'm not saying anything about the process other than the fact if we're saying that we're adopting the budget for the plan that the Planning Commission gave us, I don't think there's any truth to

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 14Proposed2:38:37

that. Well, to be clear, the Planning Commission approved drawings did not have straw bales. It was largely the identical footprint. There's been small changes, but the overall aesthetic of the building and symbols.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 22Proposed2:38:54

The construction piece wouldn't have been something that Planning Commission specifically, like, for instance, the internal pieces. The exterior, in terms of the roof material, the walls, the exterior portions of the walls, absolutely. The color, all that stuff remains.

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.792:39:09

What about, I'm not sure, but what about gutters? What about drains? What about, you know, moisture damping materials on concrete? I don't know. I tried, I built a slab once and they made me put moisture. Thank you very much. What I'm willing to do is to come back with an actual qualified bid. And look at that. Meanwhile, that would buy us some time to figure out some of these things. We're not going to move forward any quicker. I mean, we're not moving forward till we get an actual bid anyway. But I don't want to keep moving this incrementally, and we're getting so far down the road that it's almost impossible to move back. And that's where we are. Can I ask a question? Please. This is my line here. I want a qualified bid.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 4Proposed2:40:40

So, I think... I have a question because I do agree with you. I think we are talking about the same thing. If we receive and file this, they're going to come back with an actual bid. If we don't receive and file this, everything gets on hold and they have to spend time figuring out what we want to change from this budget because Because the actual numbers are going to come, this is basically like a receiving file is kind of like, well, we've already talked about this, it's already here, and let's just bring anything up for discussion that we need to, but this isn't a major step in the process. This is like a toll road. It's not like the exit ramp.

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.882:41:29

The reason I would disagree with you is because I think if we accept the budget that's being proposed, then the bids that we get are going to be based upon what's in the budget. So if there's things that are being engineered out, That we don't want, it's going to be really hard at that point of getting the bid to say, oh, no, no, no, we didn't want, you know, plastic panels for our walls. So, we don't know what the walls are going to be at this point. They're gonna be something, but we don't know what they are. And so I think we're ahead of the game in terms of saying, hey, we'll accept this bid, or we'll accept this budget, because there's all kinds of details that are still in the planning process.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:42:31

It seems to me there's a few details, and those are details that we have said they've understood where our interests lie. So it does seem to me that it is stopping the process to say, we're not going to receive. It's not as simple as saying, we're in the same boat.

2:42 – 2:4916 turns

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call2:42:47

Mayor, I think the question really lies with dignity moves. I mean, basically, we're still, you know, okay, so the council doesn't receive and file the budget. All right. Okay. So Dignity Moves could decide that they want to continue with the DMA, move forward, and bring back a bid. You're going to get that bid that you want. It's coming. This is an interim step because this is what the DMA called for.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:43:20

It's also good for you guys to hear our concerns. That's important.

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.882:43:28

So, should we just have a straight motion to, I mean, I think for one of the proponents can just say, I make a motion that we accept. I'm happy to do that. Sorry,

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call2:43:41

if I could just jump in. I think it would be important for the council to know, you know, you should ask Dignity Moves. You have three representatives here. If they're, regardless of what you do, are you going to move forward and, you know, go out to bid and, you know, and that's the important question.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:43:56

Let's

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call2:43:56

hear. You know, there are some, I have to tell you also, because you need to know this, I mean, any delay, you received recently, you know, estimates of the ongoing costs of OTT, and you know, yeah, they're there, right? It's about $350,000 a year. You know that, so just, you have to consider everything. And not to mention is people's lives and other things too, of

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 20Proposed2:44:19

course. And if I could suggest, as you ask to use that question, you might also ask them if they would bid it with ad alternates to include the value engineered plywood and composite and metal studs and the original Dura panel. That's interesting.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:44:37

We would love to hear from you. What do you guys think?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 20Proposed2:44:43

Mayor, they may need a few minutes to confer amongst

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:44:47

themselves. What we're asking is, if we did not receive and file this today, if we did not have the votes to do that, what would that mean to you? That's one question.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 13Proposed2:45:03

I do believe it would delay our design because we would need to understand then with more clarity, and we would be, it's going to be, it would be difficult because we'd be asking you to say, please tell us what are the must-haves, and please tell us what are the nice-to-haves, and the cost of the must-haves until you have an actual And remember, we're conducting a public process, so we're not allowed to speak to the bidders. We're not allowed, other than in a very public realm, we're not allowed to call contractor A, B, or C. So in a way, we've created this process together, and I think, I agree with Lucas, I think it's been useful. This is an interim budget. It's better than what we showed you last time.

Ms. Rule, it's much better than what you saw. This is not the final budget. This is not the final. We will produce bids, and this is called negotiation. If a contractor comes in with a proposal for gold-plated toilets, And we decide we don't want gold-plated toilets, then we negotiate with the contractor. That's how the process works, prior to award. So there are points along the way. I think, as Ms. Lang said, it's true.

This is a milestone, it's a point, but it's not the exit ramp. I mean, we have, we will produce, we have ten weeks now, we've committed, and as a team, we'll be, we'll produce our bid documents, and I do, it occurs to me that we could agree to do a review with you all, if you're concerned that You won't know anything about anything until you get bids back from contractors. I think we could, I mean, we have a 90% internal review. We could do a page turn with you all. We could actually show you what is on the drawings, and at that point, when there was still a little bit of time to make any final adjustments, I think that could happen. We could introduce a sort of a final review period before we go to bid. To give you a slightly better, a little bit better, better visibility to how the design has evolved.

Because that's how the design will be evolving. Decisions will be made. But we could do, I think that would be a pretty straightforward thing to do. And it wouldn't necessarily have to delay our bid and permit set on November 7th.

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.792:47:55

What would delay your bid? I mean...

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 13Proposed2:47:57

Because we might... I mean,

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.792:47:59

if we had to make changes to the drawing. So, but if we were to file and receive, then there wouldn't be any changes. I don't think anyone is suggesting changes. I mean, we could. I'm certainly disappointed that we've gone from actual natural building materials to a sort of Processed natural building materials to a partially processed building that has, you know,

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:48:29

I mean— We had differing opinions about that the whole time.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 4Proposed2:48:33

Right. They actually, Dylan said that they are working with contractors who specialize in biomaterials. So, and they're going to try as much as possible to use those biomaterials and stay within budget, is what I heard. And even the composite tiles would, and they are using some Thank you very much.

2:49 – 2:5748 turns

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:49:16

But I'm hearing you offer that we could have a meeting where we go line by line and look at those pieces. Of course. Give you a progress

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 13Proposed2:49:22

set.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:49:22

Yeah, we

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 13Proposed2:49:22

could review a progress set. I mean, I think it's entirely possible and probably a good idea because otherwise the bid and permit documents, you'd be seeing those at the same time as the contractors. So this would just be one additional step, but I don't think it would be.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:49:44

I'm sorry to interrupt. With that proposed meeting, what would be the kind of rough date in your timeline? When would that meeting happen?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 13Proposed2:49:51

So if we're submitting at the end of week 10, which is November 7, it should be sometime. We want to say like 90 percent, right? So probably end of October.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:50:03

End of

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.792:50:03

October. Yeah. So would we make a motion to table this?

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.882:50:09

Until that

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.792:50:10

meeting. Until that meeting. And I'm not even sure what we're going to get at that

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 13Proposed2:50:18

meeting. I have to

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:50:21

be honest. Just to say, tell me if I got you right. That meeting at the end of October, you would go through basically the items and we would go and say, these are things we really care about, these are things that are negotiable.

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call2:50:34

Sorry, Mayor, to jump in. So we're talking about reviewing, you're talking about doing a page turn. Please stay with us, guys. You're talking about doing a page turn of the construction documents. Well,

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:50:44

that's what I thought was being proposed. I think that's what

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call2:50:46

you're talking about. Now, I just will warn you, I mean, that's a very technical exercise, and you might spend a lot of time explaining to people the orientation of the drawing and what this means and what that means. You do have a community development director Who is knowledgeable about these types of things. I don't know if the public or you, I'm not being rude, I'm just saying these are technical construction drives. I understand.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 22Proposed2:51:15

Can I? Yes, please, Ms. Seibert. I actually think it would be helpful to a certain degree because I think you have Dylan here who is a licensed architect who understands and can explain this stuff at a high level. He's gone through the schooling. I was in design school for a minute as well. You get beat up when you're in design school. You get torn down to the point where you have to build yourself up again internally.

He can certainly go into the details of this, and I have strong opinions that he'll be able to do it in a way in which the community will understand it. I think there's usefulness to that, just to be fair. Aside from the professional background that I have, he's really the resource by which to explain and walk through this.

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.792:52:09

It's unclear now on, you know, whether or not, how we're using natural building materials. From what I understood, we were at one point going to be using compressed natural materials that were processed as, you know, sort of walls or whatever, but then we took them away and made that gypsum. And I could be wrong, so this would be helpful for me. I mean, I want to know what we're building and I want to know what it's going to cost. And everything from this project from day one has slipped.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:52:48

So, Ms. Rule, what would happen is we would, that meeting would be, we're talking about what we are interested in, then it goes out to bid. So, we don't know what it costs till we decide that. Then it goes out to bid. So, it's a preliminary step.

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.792:53:03

Right, I know, I know. I mean, how do we? I just like how do you how do you approve a budget when you don't have a bid? So this

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call2:53:11

is no different if I could jump in. This is no different than the paving project. OK, so we do this every year. We put into the budget what we think it's going to cost. And so you may remember sometimes we come back and we say, oh, This is the lowest bid that we've received, but guess what? It exceeds what we budgeted by X amount of dollars. That happens all the time. This is a normal

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.792:53:31

thing. This is

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call2:53:33

a little different, right? You're right. This is a little different. What we do in public works with the paving project is we We come back to you and we say, well, I'm sorry, we budgeted $4 million. The lowest bid was $4.7 million. You can reject it. We can reduce the scope of the project and you go out to bid again, or you can take the lowest bidder and you can apportion the $700,000 that you didn't put into the budget through your unprogrammed fund balance. That's how we

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.792:54:00

do it. Well, that's my point, is that once we come back, if it's, you know, I don't, are we going to have to decrease the scope again? I mean, unless we get firm bids, we're not going to know that,

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call2:54:11

right? So what they've done this time is, you know, this is kind of the interesting process we've gone through, is that we've done this value engineering so that we can come back with that known ceiling. It's going to have to come in below, that's the thought, it's coming in below $9.5 million.

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.792:54:27

Right, and so if it doesn't, what do we jettison? That becomes the question because... We decide

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:54:34

that in the moment.

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call2:54:38

This is how all of our projects go. This is not different than

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 4Proposed2:54:43

other... This is how you plan an annual budget, too. It's like, we think we're going to spend this based on what we've spent on projects like this before. But through the value engineering,

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call2:54:50

we're hoping it's going to come down

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 4Proposed2:54:51

to a lower number. And the actuals you get when you've actually spent the money.

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.792:54:56

Right, like, I want to know, you know, what's the ramifications of not having gutters? I know what the ramifications at my house are of not having gutters. You know, those kinds of things. There's gutters. There are gutters. There are gutters.

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call2:55:09

Yeah, they do have gutters.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:55:10

We have gutters. That's why I'm saying, like, it's easy. We want to be really clear and argue about what is worth arguing about. We keep arguing about things that aren't

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.792:55:19

real. So that was an example. I'm talking about scope and I'm talking about budget. And I'm talking about both of those can go either way.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:55:28

Can I ask you, would you be willing to file and receive this knowing that there will be this detailed review in October?

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.792:55:37

No.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:55:37

Okay.

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.792:55:38

Because if we're going to have a detailed review in October anyway, where all the real decisions These are going to be made, you know, why file and review here? Like I said, it just becomes more and more difficult to rein this back in, right? The more steps you take, you could say, well, you know, we can still stop it, you know. No, no, let's actually look, let's get closer to the reality of what it's going to be and then decide.

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.882:56:15

So my suggestion is we do the page turner review, second meeting in October, that we have the acceptance of the budget on the calendar at that point in time. Of course we can We can choose not to or we can choose to.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:56:34

We won't know what

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.882:56:34

the budget is.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 10Proposed2:56:35

So then let's give it 90 days. That's

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:56:37

what I'm saying. Let's say 90 days. Unless it's a budget like this, which we're hearing is not acceptable, then it has to go out to bid to

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call2:56:49

get the

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.792:56:49

actuals. We wait until we get the budget. Wait until we get the budget to approve.

Montgomery, Bethany

Anderson,

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call2:57:10

Weston Montgomery, Bethany Burgess, Taylor

2:57 – 3:0422 turns

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.792:57:19

Why?

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:57:19

Because if you're saying, we won't approve anything until February, instead of them proceeding in that way, then that is a serious delay. Instead of saying, you're proceeding down this way with lots of times to make decisions.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 10Proposed2:57:33

But according to the time frame, isn't there select the general contractor in February?

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.792:57:36

Yeah, I mean, I don't see. I don't see. Where's that delay?

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:57:42

Ms. Johnson?

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.792:57:43

Yes,

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 21Proposed2:57:44

on the big pull-out page, there's about from December to February where it says that there's the City of Ojai slash DM bid evaluation four weeks, and that's where the time where the bidders are done, and then we have five weeks between the City and Dignity Moves to review the budget, review the apparent low

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 3Proposed2:58:10

bidder,

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 21Proposed2:58:11

and to figure out if this is what you want to award, and then on February 3rd is the award of a contract or

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:58:21

not.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 21Proposed2:58:22

But there is time if you look in the detail. So I know it's a Gantt chart, and that's where we are. But if you go to the City of Ojai, That's four weeks of just time that the bids are done, and that's time for everyone to review what came in, what are the costs, what can they do this for, what you need to evaluate and engineer, and then are you willing to do it. That's what I want. That is what I want. That is in the timeline.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role2:58:55

So that's December.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 21Proposed2:58:56

And so that's December through February 3rd. So then on February 3rd, Dignity Moves comes in and says, this is the apparent low bidder, and this is what we've worked on for four weeks, and we're agreed to, and would you award the bid? And then you have 16 months to build the project. So that is the line, but for the DMA, at the halfway point, which is where the bold is, and the color, is where we're at now. And that is just saying that at this time, point in time, we have some guesstimated numbers that are from four professionals who have come through and looked at the budget, or they've been pre-qualified, and they have given a estimated bid on what it would think they could, And that's the number they've averaged and brought in on your budget to give you some confidence of where they're at at the halfway point.

That's what they're giving you tonight, and it's only an exception to file and receive because it is just an informational item that we're on track And at this point, on this big chart, we're halfway through, kind of like where it is, and we're moving along. I think this is what it means when I was playing with it and making it bigger and stuff. That's what I learned from it. But I hope I didn't say it wrong to anybody else.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 20Proposed3:00:25

Mayor, if I could make a suggestion. Yeah, go ahead. You might also consider, if the council is adamant That one or more of the value engineering suggestions not be value engineered, then provide that direction tonight. Receive and file the budget, but do not value engineer out, insert item here. Then they have direction to produce the bids, knowing it's a bid, see what the numbers come in. And your direction would be inherently, do not value engineer out, item, item, item. Recognizing something else will have to be engineered out to get to 9.5 million.

I did. I

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.793:00:58

remember asking Mr. Harvey is if we approved this on this date, would it be a done deal? And he told me yes. He said there would be no going back. That was my question. I distinctly remember asking that question because I was very curious as to what this was going to be. So, what we're hearing now is that no, in fact, this agreement is not really binding, and in which case, why do it?

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call3:01:40

Actually, I respectfully disagree with all of that. We do have actually a binding agreement with Dignity Moves, and I don't know exactly what question you're referring to, Council Member.

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.793:01:50

I can go back. I'll go back and get it for you and show it to you, because I was very specific in asking that question. If they come in with the budget at 9.5, would we be obligated to accept this? The answer was yes, but that's okay. I'm happy to go back to the last, you know, meeting and pull that

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:02:17

up. Mr. Summers, I really do appreciate what you just said, and the only thing I would like to register is I would love to see the DORA panel remain. If we can figure that out, you heard that? That was the only thing that stuck out for me. And what I'm hearing from Ms. Johnson is that if we stick with the timeline, that if we look at that December date going into then that period where we're reviewing, we can stay on track if we do stay there, if we stay with that December review, right?

So that was the only thing I heard that I saw that I wanted to see personally.

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.793:02:55

Are we getting a bid, though? I mean,

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:03:00

that's in the timeline that Ms. Johnson just pointed out, so that would be in the December timeframe.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 21Proposed3:03:04

Yes, Ms. Rule. So, in November, There'll be a professional qualified bid going out to those four qualified people, companies, and they will have six weeks to complete the bid, and it's their parent low bidder who will come through, they'll negotiate, we'll negotiate, and then by February 3rd, the negotiations are done, and you award the bid to the parent low bidder At that time, and then that starts the construction. But yes, you're going to have four weeks for City and Dignity Moves to negotiate the bid from the time it comes in and it's locked down.

And to the time you award. I know it says February 3rd and February 3rd. It's just that that night two things are going to happen. But it doesn't mean that you're going to do it in one day. You have time. And you will have a lot of staff time to be reviewing all these things in detail.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:04:15

Thank you, Ms. Jones.

3:04 – 3:2137 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 10Proposed3:04:21

Leslie, are you going to go through with the motion, the original one that you started?

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.793:04:25

Yeah, I still don't see a point in receiving and filing.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 10Proposed3:04:34

So do you want to give them like days? I was thinking maybe like 90 days to come back with?

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.793:04:39

Whatever the time frame that we were speaking of where we will actually be looking at a real bid. We're just talking in

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:04:47

a circle, you

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.793:04:48

guys.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:04:49

So what was said

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.793:04:50

was... We're trying to clarify.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:04:51

Oh, no, I know. I understand. But they're saying they will take feedback. It will follow the time frame that Ms. Johnson just specified. We will get actual bids. That would be next year. So to say in 90 days we'll get an actual bid, that's not what we're saying. So we're just talking in a

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.883:05:10

circle. Mayor, why don't you propose a

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:05:13

motion? I would propose that we receive and file and that we could have a detailed review at the end of October where we give design specifications that would then give us a more accurate bid starting in the December process.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 4Proposed3:05:33

I'll second that.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:05:39

Any further discussion

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.793:05:40

here? When do we look at the actual bid? We

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:05:43

can't do that until we give them that detailed specification, and it's not until next year.

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call3:05:52

Right, they have to produce the construction drawings. Right.

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.793:06:00

So what's the point of receiving and filing this, just out of curiosity?

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:06:03

My opinion is that they understand our feedback now, and it follows the timeline that we have set them on, and it's our partnership with them.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 10Proposed3:06:14

But what about the timelines that

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 4Proposed3:06:15

they set up that they're not abiding by? But in the beginning, so the whole point of this receive and file item was for us to have an update. It's more of an informational item than it is an action item. It is, here's where we are with the process, and it does give us a chance to review it, but this was It was just an informational update that we asked for, and that was part of our DMA.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:06:45

That's how I'm interpreting it, too. So, if the worry is it binds us down a road, I'm not hearing that tonight. Not

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.793:06:56

at all. What I'm hearing is it doesn't mean anything, so why vote for it?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 2Proposed3:07:02

There you go.

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.793:07:03

I mean, that's what I'm hearing. It changes nothing.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:07:07

I hope that's true. I think we're probably done. Okay. We just keep talking in circles, so I suppose we're at the vote.

Roll-call vote Moved by Andy Gilman · Seconded by Rachel Lang
Show transcript
Yes, Mayor. We have a motion by Mayor Gilman with a second by Mayor Pro Tem Lang to receive and file and direct Dignity Moves to provide a detailed review at the 2nd October meeting. Thank
ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.793:07:28

you. And I'm going to make a substitute motion that we don't receive and file, but that we do everything else.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:07:41

The meeting at the end of October, like what you're saying?

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.793:07:44

Mm-hmm.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:07:44

Okay. Is

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.793:07:47

there a second for that?

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:07:48

I'll

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.883:07:49

second that. Don't

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.793:07:53

receive and

ElectedKim MangMayor Pro TemProposedvoiceprint 0.643:07:53

file.

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.883:07:54

Don't receive and file.

Roll-call vote Passed 3–2 motion that we don't receive and file, but that we do everything else. The meeting at the end of October, like what you're saying? Mm-hmm. O
Show transcript
Roll call, Mayor? Mm-hmm. Mayor Pro Tem Lang? No. Council Member Whitman? Yes. Council Member Mang? Yes. Mayor Gilman? No. Council Member Rule. Yes.
ElectedKim MangMayor Pro TemProposedvoiceprint 0.643:08:14

Motion passes. Okay.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:08:20

I hope we can move forward and we'll take a 10-minute break. One, two. Mr. Montgomery, ready? Ready. Thank you,

3:21 – 3:2923 turns

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.883:21:49

sir.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:21:52

We're returning, y'all. We're going to move on to item eight, concept review, allocation of $100,000 in general funds to Hope of Ojai for a rental assistance program and authorization to execute agreement.

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call3:22:08

Yes, but before I begin, Alicia, where'd Jane go? Mayor and Council, this is a concept review item. We're following up with Council direction to bring this back for discussion wherein We would be potentially allocating $100,000 from the unprogrammed general fund budget, general fund allotment, pardon me, on a one-time basis for the purpose of providing that to help of OHI for them to use for their existing rental assistance program. I'm using the wrong term and acronym for it, just keeping it simple. I brought this back to you just as a concept review item because I suspect that you all might want to set certain parameters and you might want to have certain reporting requirements and you want certain pieces of it that I didn't feel that I knew enough to design it.

And of course, I also wanted to have Jane and Alicia here. Sorry, I'm being very informal. It's getting late. So that they could tell you about the program, how it works, and also maybe items that they see in their Personal experience, excuse me, professional experience that might make the program more effective.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:23:26

Thank

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call3:23:27

you. So that's just kind of a short and sweet presentation. I realize it's kind of informal. Any questions about that?

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:23:35

Maybe, Jane, is now a time for you to come up or not, or normally we would have, you would be part of the staff report. We could ask you some questions and then go to the few public comments we have.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 24Proposed3:23:46

I wasn't prepared to speak to you guys formally about this, but I'm happy to talk about this program. So Help of Ojai, for probably decades at this point, has managed a rental assistance fund. We go about it in different ways, likely based off of whatever funding stream we have, right? So typically they're state grants that allow us to intervene before a household becomes homeless by way of rental assistance. Our current funding that we have, that we've spent, Is the HHAP funding, we received $50,000 for that. We used it to support 15 households, 18 households.

And so for that, and the really specific criteria for that is that a family has to, or a household has to present a three-day pay or quit notice that allows us then to intervene with rental. So that pay or quit notice is what signals That funding being homeless prevention, right? And so that's what that funding looks like. We've had funding in the past before COVID that was a lot more flexible. Again, it was all through the county. We run all of this through our role within the continuum of care. We're a referring agency. People can refer people to us to spend the funds, you know, that serve the population that we serve in this area. So it looks different. You guys have information that reflects the current grant that we have. Like I said, we've been really flexible in terms of the way we have spent funds in the past.

There have been, there was a time that I was case managing that we had no funding for this, and it was Help of Ojai funding that was supporting people with rental. So it's looked really different. Yes, Ben. Or Mr.

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call3:25:28

Harvey, yes. No, Ben's fine. I'm calling you Jane. When we spoke earlier on this topic, I remember some discussion between Alicia, you and me, where you talked about things that would make it easier for you to help people, and I was hoping maybe you could just break it down.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:25:42

I wanted to ask that, too.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 24Proposed3:25:43

Sure. What makes it easier? Well, I

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:25:45

guess it's very much in line with what Mr. Harvey just said, that it would be, if you get that sort of three-day notice, that seems like you're right on the edge. But if you said, well, if somebody came to you and said, here's my predicament, I'm not going to be able to make my rent next month, Because of the situation, that is below the waterline of the iceberg? Absolutely.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 24Proposed3:26:05

So it would absolutely free up both kind of this restriction timeline-wise for our staff as well as like we're not pushing families onto the literal brink and having to come for us to support, right? Like thinking just about what that causes in terms of trauma for households, etc. So that would be ideal, right? If there wasn't necessarily a requirement for the pay or quit. And I don't know if you guys have the whole packet. It is very intensive. What is required is really intensive and it's part of the process. So we would not stray significantly from like looking at people's financials, there being a criteria for there to be case management. Other, you know, we're going to go through all the very like Basic requirements, but if there's flexibility in terms of what the household's annual income is, annual monthly income, as well as the piece about the pay or quit, that would be ideal.

The other thing, yeah, I think that that's really huge, and then we sort of, I don't, this is probably maybe getting too into the weeds about this, but we also really, we're hoping to get funding for rapid rehousing. That's something that we have not qualified for from the state more recently, recently like in the last probably five years. And that allows us to help an unhoused household pay a first month's rent or deposit to move in somewhere new.

And I can add more about that if you get some questions.

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call3:27:25

And, Council, I did not deliberately provide you with the intake forms.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 24Proposed3:27:28

Yeah, yeah. Just because it

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call3:27:31

was a Byzantine...

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 24Proposed3:27:33

It's like 80 pages, probably. I mean, it's a lot, yeah.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:27:36

Yes. So if I'm hearing you right, correct me if I'm wrong, we have expressed in many ways we want to help with rental assistance in some ways. That's something many of us have said. So we'll discuss that. And what I'm hearing from you is if there were some flexibility around who your organization is going to deem who needs this money the most at the time, that would give you more leeway to implement this program. But

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 24Proposed3:28:04

also, there will be parameters, right? Like it's not as though it would be just like giveaway grants, etc. That would also make things really complicated for us. So, of course, like, still having, and you guys can determine what that looks like, I suppose, of what, maybe it's a percentage of the AMI, or maybe it is, you know, there still being, I don't know, Alicia, what the exact language is that we use, but there being an event that has impacted a household's ability to pay rent, right?

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:28:33

Like medical or whatever. Yeah, I get that. And then, I presume you would have no problem with, not with any names, of course, but you would give us a report out

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 24Proposed3:28:41

periodically? Sure. Yeah, absolutely. So we, as is now, we file a report every month for the county. So that would not be difficult for us. That would be just kind of, you know, the standard.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:28:53

Understood. Questions, please.

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.883:28:55

If we wanted you to limit the assistance to Ojai residents, would that easily plug into the criteria you already have?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 24Proposed3:29:09

In terms of, yeah, I mean, for us, and we do track our data, like in terms of our population served, et cetera, we look at city versus non-city resident, and so it would just be part of the application process. Like, do you live within city limits? We would verify that. Obviously, people would have to have a lease, and we'd review it that way. You know, obviously, that restricts it of that last grant that we just spent, I think it was 45%, almost 50% of the population served through that grant were city. Thank you.

3:29 – 3:4263 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 4Proposed3:29:43

So we've had public comments asking about what we can do to help anyone who's been affected by ICE in our community. Could we apportion some of this funding to help specifically with those folks?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 24Proposed3:30:01

So you could. You'll see from the info you have, though, that things like Social Security, et cetera, is required for the existing funding that we have. So that would have to be something that you all say, that's not a requirement, we're good with that, and then we can, absolutely. So that's

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call3:30:18

a parameter we

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 24Proposed3:30:19

can

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call3:30:19

set. These are unprogrammed general funds. This is your

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 4Proposed3:30:24

money.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:30:26

I guess that's what, just to that point, I had the same thing in my mind, and I was even thinking, I'm interested to, because this is a trusted organization, That is doing work that really does serve the city. I like that flexibility of not requiring a social security number and trusting that you know who needs the money. That's my opinion. Ms. Mang, anything? Any questions before we go to public comment?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 24Proposed3:30:53

Yeah, I'm just curious, does the county help? Yeah, all of our funds are through county. So our rental assistance program, what we just spent, is county. That all comes from the state through the county. That is through the continuum of care. We don't always qualify, right? So we don't always have that funding. The grant that we received two years ago that we just finished, or we applied two years ago, we weren't eligible for that funding prior to. It's hard for us because a lot of families don't qualify.

Our rent's really high, and families have a really difficult time providing or proving sustainability, right? That their income is X amount more than what their rent is. And so it's hard, but we spent it really quickly this last time around. I keep looking to Alicia. This is Alicia Rodriguez. She's my case manager. Didn't you tell me you were done

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:31:48

by June? You had spent it all?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 24Proposed3:31:50

Yeah, so we've, yeah, we spent it all in about six months. It took a little bit of time to get it going, which makes sense because we hadn't had it, right? During COVID, the state had its own program for rental assistance. And then we kind of got back involved locally, and so it took a little bit of time, but then it just was ongoing. And I will also add, just anecdotally, the households in Ojai that we're supporting are the X number of households, but there are households that have more minor children. So it's a lot of families, as you guys know, and then older adults who need help in the city limits.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:32:26

And then, I want to go to Ms. Rule, just one more question. Now, this is very, how do I say it? It's anecdotal. My understanding is that some of the city's language in past years has suggested that we partnered with you in helping in this way. I don't think it

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 24Proposed3:32:43

suggested. Well, it

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:32:45

implied heavily, but we didn't actually give you the money.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 24Proposed3:32:48

Right. It's in the housing element, is what it is. So,

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:32:52

in my view, we're actually making up for some past transgression.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 24Proposed3:32:56

Yeah, it's been in the housing element since 2017 that the city supported help of Ojai with rental assistance. Yeah,

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:33:03

okay,

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 24Proposed3:33:04

2014,

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:33:05

yeah. And

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 24Proposed3:33:06

we have never, and we haven't received funding from the city for that.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:33:08

Understood, and mea culpa, and here we are today.

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.793:33:12

Yep.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:33:13

Ms. Rule, anything to add before I go to public comments? No, thank you. You guys

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.793:33:16

have all addressed it, thank you.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:33:19

Okay, Mr. Whitman.

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.883:33:20

Yeah, so I assume then there's some criteria for some minimum amount of time that they've been...

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 24Proposed3:33:29

Residents?

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.883:33:30

A member of the community.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 24Proposed3:33:33

So they have to have a lease, right? So you have to have a lease showing that that is where you reside and that you have, you know, and it's signed by a landlord. That's the proof of residence. So it wouldn't, you know, if it was someone, I mean, I get your point, like someone who doesn't live here. I mean, yeah, that's bottom line proof of residency that you live in that home. We have forms that landlords have to sign.

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.883:33:53

Yeah. If somebody came, rented a home, two months later, they're in this crisis, but prior to two months, they had no connection with Ojai whatsoever.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 24Proposed3:34:09

Right? So if they have a lease and live in the city limits, they would be considered as a city of Ojai resident in terms of our work. If you guys want to put in some sort of parameter saying they have to have lived somewhere for X amount of months, that's something you can do. That is not an issue for us. That is not a...

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:34:27

Do you see people doing that?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 24Proposed3:34:30

It happens all the time. No, it never

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:34:32

happens. I hear what you're saying. You wouldn't want somebody to move here with that plan. I totally get that, but you don't see that. And I presume you would be very suspicious of offering help.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 24Proposed3:34:45

Yeah, I mean, because innately we want people to be sustainable and be able to live and exist without intervention by us. It's not, like, we can't do it long term. And so our, you know, we, this is not a, I don't know, this is not a really quick and simple process. This takes a lot of time from staff to go through these applications and support households who receive this assistance. It's not super simple. And again, you can look at the supporting documents. I think it pretty, it shares what we have to do and what we do.

But yeah, that's never been something I've experienced.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:35:21

Okay, Ms. Mang, yeah.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 24Proposed3:35:22

Yeah,

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 10Proposed3:35:23

I just have a quick question. With the rapid rehousing, with item three, willingness to participate, participants are expected. Do, how, like, out of so many, how many do follow through with that? We reach out

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 24Proposed3:35:40

and we will, you know, we bug you and find you. But I mean, really, it's I'm sure in the lifetime of doing this that has happened, but it is very clear in terms of our working with people in that process that that's a very clear expectation. I would say it's really infrequent. It might not go on for as long, right? And that's cool. People might be able to get back on their feet and not need our help, and that's great. So, I mean, it's kind of, you know, for better or worse, it's great if we don't hear from you necessarily, if you've kind of met your benchmarks, etc. But I would say it's not frequent that we work with someone and then do not engage following.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:36:26

Thank you for the question.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 22Proposed3:36:28

How long do you typically, I mean is it a sliding scale in terms of how long you provide support for?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 24Proposed3:36:42

One time. So the funding we have right now, There's, like, some flexibility in terms of the language of the grant, that, like, if a family very much viably, like, needs additional support, we can offer it. It's not common, and often that's because there's just, like, not a lot of money to be able to do it as well. There are other programs in the county that have the HHEP funding that can do it, like, longer term, right? Like, they can perhaps support for two or three months. There has been maybe one or two occasions that we've helped with two months of

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:37:17

rent,

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 24Proposed3:37:18

but that's it. Yeah. It's just not a sustainable model at all.

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.883:37:23

Yeah, right. I have just one question for staff and I share the mayor's concern about if we've been telling HCD and our housing element that we're involved in this program. I just want to make sure that whatever it is that we agree to do, that it's something that HCD is going to give us our, you know, brownie points and credits towards.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 22Proposed3:37:55

Oh,

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.883:37:55

I look forward to it. We're doing things right. Why not?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 22Proposed3:37:59

If council agrees to go forward with this, I look forward to identifying that as a part of our annual progress report. Because even with our annual progress report, we're required and obligated to provide updates to those 19 programs that we've agreed to. Thank you for

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:38:13

that.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 10Proposed3:38:13

That's great clarification. And with us helping and supporting, could that up your possibilities of grants with the county?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 24Proposed3:38:19

Yeah, I mean it's, we definitely get a lot of support from the county. It's more, so this is more info than you guys probably want. The county every year, especially for this specific program, identifies specific areas that they want to support or can support organizations with, right? So we saw for a while that was TAY, right? A lot of organizations, anyone supporting transitional age youth would qualify for X programs. People doing street outreach. I'm trying to think of what else the high priorities were right now. But they're really looking at different programming, not necessarily homeless prevention by rental assistance. That could change next year, right? It's all based on the data that they're seeing the agencies report. So it's not that we're not getting denied, we just don't qualify, right?

Like we don't have a strong application or it's not a program they're prioritizing, if you will. But it'd be great, right? But it's tough.

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.883:39:13

Yeah. Okay, so one more staff question. Did our housing element suggest that we're spending a certain amount? Thank you.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 22Proposed3:39:27

And it's worth noting that we do have a certified housing

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.883:39:31

element. Right.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 20Proposed3:39:48

Right. So we've always been in compliance with the housing element. Big picture. This would increase our compliance with every little line, chapter and verse.

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.883:39:56

Yes.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 20Proposed3:39:57

Great.

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.883:39:58

And probably improve our overall relationship with HCD. Oh,

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 20Proposed3:40:03

absolutely. This and some other things we've done recently are quite helpful in that regard.

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.883:40:07

OK. Yeah.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:40:07

Thank you. OK, I'll do some public comments now. Mr. Miley and then Ruth Miller. Hello.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 18Proposed3:40:30

I'm using my cane on purpose. I have a handicap. Folks without housing will be handicapped, and a cane is not going to help them. Certainly there is an ongoing need for help with housing affordability here in our city, with about 50% of our housing stock being rentals. The past American Community Surveys have documented the high percentage of households paying more than 30% of their annual income per roof.

Some of our tent folks were renters here in the Valley. Some folks every month face money squeezes in paying rent and other living expenses. Realtors deal with folks frequently looking for rental homes but not having enough income and funds for payment, especially down payment and security. With income limitations, their ability to rent is compromised. My understanding is that help with the proper documentation of income history can offer such down payment and security grants to help, if they have the funds.

American Community Survey clearly shows that about 500 households within the City of Ojai are paying more than 30% of their annual income. Summary, I believe your council recognizes the increasing challenge of households and families to pay for decent living space and the role of our institutional organization, Help of Ojai. It provides in filling in the legitimate human needs and family survival resource and the fact that government resources, mainly federal, have been getting less and less. With our city consistently expressing care concerns, now is the time for funds for crisis and ongoing survival care and support.

To me, it's logical and timely that this request be supported for allocation.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:42:52

Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Miley. Ruth Miller, please.

3:43 – 3:5132 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 16Proposed3:43:11

I've seen somebody who was housed And all of a sudden, they find themselves at Ojai Tent Town, living in a tent. And I've seen the trauma on their faith and in their body. Trying to wrap their head around the fact that they don't even have a decent bed to sleep on. And that's bad enough. This was a senior woman. Imagine being a single mom. All of a sudden, you have no place for your children to sleep.

And that's what we're talking about. They can do it. And I love the fact that they're willing to be flexible as to who you want to get it or how long they get it. And on a more practical note, I believe I've heard you say in the past that it's actually less expensive to keep a person home than To pay for them on the street.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:44:20

Thank you, Ms. Miller.

ElectedKim MangMayor Pro TemProposedvoiceprint 0.643:44:22

Anybody online? Mayor, we have no raised hands and just two participants on Zoom now. Okay. So I don't see any hands raising. We can move on.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:44:30

Thank you. Yes. Oh, well, I guess we need Mr. Harvey back. is the concept review of which you will go back and craft the piece, but it's something along the lines, if my colleagues agree, the $100,000 with the flexibility that allows help of Ojai to determine who needs it the most. And I do want to honor Mr. Whitman's request, which is That the people in the city limits would have that priority, which I heard them say they honor. But that the identification requirements and those kinds of things, we would keep it as loose as possible for them to allocate as they deem. What about the reporting? And then you said monthly you would give us a report with monthly reporting? Monthly? You want to do quarterly? Quarterly is fine. Quarterly is fine.

Bethany

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.883:45:51

Burgess,

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:45:51

Taylor

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.883:45:52

Anderson,

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:45:52

Weston

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.883:45:52

Montgomery, Bethany Burgess, Taylor Anderson, Weston Montgomery City manager to bring it back with his best understanding of what we're trying to do.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:46:21

I think that's what we're proposing.

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.883:46:23

Yeah, it would

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:46:24

get brought back. We would, but we

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.883:46:26

can still finesse the language.

not transcribed≈10s of audible speech the AI couldn’t make out▸ listen
UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 20Proposed3:46:50

I'm curious how long it would take to bring it back to the meeting. When would that be?

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call3:47:05

That's a good question. We just potentially added another meeting. Well, I

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:47:12

hope what we're saying is that it's fairly simple.

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call3:47:17

I think we could, I think this, let's be safe. I think I could say October. I could say the first meeting in October if that's acceptable to you all. Jane, that, Alicia, that gives us some time to.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:47:28

That's

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call3:47:28

great. Okay. Thank you.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 4Proposed3:47:32

We're probably going to say the same thing about the Social Security numbers, about the Social Security number, about the

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.793:47:44

I would support keeping it as flexible as possible so that it could be given to those most in need with as little obstacle and barriers as is possible. And Health of Ojai needs no introduction,

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:48:05

regardless of

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.793:48:06

status, as to the work they do.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 20Proposed3:48:08

Got it. Okay. Understood.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:48:10

Yep. Okay. Well, that's that's the motion that I'm putting out there that we it's the we're proposing that I guess the contract will be written right to come back to us by the by October. Yes, we'll

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call3:48:23

do a simple summary with the administrative report. The PSA will look like most of the PSAs you receive, but the scope attached to it will kind of go through what we're talking about here. Yep.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:48:34

We'll write it. Yep. Thank you. Second from anyone? Yes. Yep. Mr. Whitman seconds. Any more discussion? Great. Mr. Montgomery.

Roll-call vote Passed 5–0
Show transcript
Roll call. Mayor Gilman. Yes. Council Member Mang. Yes. Council Member Rule. Yes. Mayor Pro Tem Lang. Yes. Council Member Whitman. Yes.

Thanks for hanging out, help of Ojai. You guys, we can do number nine.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 10Proposed3:49:00

All right.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:49:01

It might be easy. Maybe not. We'll see. Thank you. We're on to General Plan Update Progress Report.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 22Proposed3:49:14

Thank you. Yes, thank you. Lucas Seibert, Community Development Director for the City of Ojai, just to be formal with this. And now I'm going to be somewhat informal. The item before you tonight is a receiving file as a recommendation by staff. And really what this is, is just to kind of bring the council kind of up to date with the last time we met, which I think was in April. So in April, I was working with a consultant, Raymond Associates, on creating focus groups. Those did not go over well. So what we've done, the community had some concerns. I could sense that with this council as well. So we pivoted after some back and forth with the consultant to surveys. So what we're going to do is provide surveys, which are going to have two different styles of questions.

These are open-ended and closed-ended questions, and it's going to help compartmentalize the way in which some of those questions are asked. If you recall correctly, with the economic diversification element, it really kind of breaks it down into hospitality, business owners, and then residents. That's still going to remain, and finding that balance through those questions and kind of giving a triage of sorts. The same thing is not necessarily in terms of the way in which the questions, the line of questions, but it's going to be similar in terms of triaging it through the Climate Action Plan. From a background standpoint, this hasn't necessarily delayed the work that's being done behind the scenes with both the Climate Action Plan and with the economic diversification element, but we are moving in a direction where the survey is going to be coming out very soon.

I want to make sure that you guys are aware of that, and obviously we're going to be getting the community made aware of that as well through a number of different pieces that I'm putting together. So, very forward-facing, very public-facing.

3:51 – 3:5619 turns

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:51:16

One question. When I look under the Climate Action Plan, and I see that the revised approach is the survey, the open house, pop-ups, and then focus messaging, It looks like, but I don't know if it's intended, that really is a question. There's less of a plan under the economic diversification element, but I'm not sure that you meant there to be

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 22Proposed3:51:35

less. It's not meant to be less. Okay, perfect. Here's, I think, the takeaway in terms of the pivot. So instead of the focus groups, which was going to be a big piece, instead we're doing the survey. What's still going to, which is still a part of both the Climate Action Plan and the Economic Diversification Element, is the focus, sorry, it's the pop-up and basically the public-facing meetings to get input and provide updates, basically.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:52:02

And then just one more question then, Mr. Whitman. Would the survey precede the public, the open houses and that? Yes. Okay, so it would drive that conversation. It'll help drive that conversation, absolutely. I love it. Mr. Whitman.

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.883:52:14

Yeah, so it's a little bit of deja vu for me. So I proposed This plan element and my concept when I proposed it was to address a statement which is in our current general plan that says that we have a goal of harmonizing our vibrant tourist economy with a residential community. And I think that there's a lot of Concern in the community that their residential existence is subservient to our tourists. And so I'm not objecting to the diversification component that, you know, that's at the forefront, but I really want that assessment of things that we can do to make a resident feel like they're more at the forefront of Ojai life. So, I don't know. I've had one conversation with Lisa.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:53:38

The consultant.

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.883:53:38

I was going to say smart, but it's wise. Yeah, because again, I did that. Yeah. Yeah, I've had one conversation, you know, along those same lines. I just want to make sure that we are addressing, including In the survey and the pop-ups, the idea that, you know, what can our tourist, you know, industry do to make the residents feel like they're in their own hometown? For sure.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:54:16

And Ojai Cultural Contributions, one answer to that.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 22Proposed3:54:19

There's a chunk of money, but... It's to you, I think, to you specifically, but also for the entire council here tonight. Those questions and comments and conversations have come up in our informal meetings offline. It's been very, I mean, as soon as we start having the conversation, I will admit, your name is brought up immediately to ensure that they're following and kind of fitting into that mold. Because, to be fair, you're the one that brought it up, but from an economic diversification, well, economic piece. Tourism management, I think, is the way in which it was first phrased. I think that is what

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.883:54:59

we label it

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 22Proposed3:55:00

initially. And so that is, they're very much aware of that, and I think it's fitting into that mold.

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.883:55:07

I'm going to be upset if it's blown over when we

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 22Proposed3:55:11

get further down the road. No, it's not. And it's even covered in the points by which we've been working through. It's definitely not rolled over. How does Lisa

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:55:20

Weiss fit into what we're talking about right now?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 22Proposed3:55:23

They're running the economic diversification, so it's... How much detail do you want

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:55:29

me to go into? I guess what I'm trying to say is, what I keep encountering is there's many constituencies or organizations even that are interested in trying to understand how our economy is working, especially for residents. We just had our Arts Commission co-meeting, which also is an overlay on this, so I knew we were engaged with her on this, and so the Chamber is also really, I'm meeting with them tomorrow, they say, oh, we should do a big economic survey, and I'm like, we're already doing it, but let's team up. It's already

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 22Proposed3:56:00

being done, it's already being paid for, so you don't want to do something twice.

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.883:56:03

And I think that is really Lisa Weiss's So

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 22Proposed3:56:08

we're

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.883:56:09

kind of giving her a little bit of a curveball with this, you know, the tourism management component of it. But I think she is one of the, you know, really leaders in this type of economic, studying what our economic opportunities are.

3:56 – 4:0126 turns

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.793:56:36

It occurred to me as we were speaking with the Arts Commission that when they were talking about a creative economy, it ended up relying upon tourists, the festivals, the people that come for the open studios.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:57:00

I

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.793:57:00

took it to

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:57:00

be both.

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.793:57:01

Yeah, I think it can be both too, but I'm just saying that it occurred to me at the time that when we were talking about, you know, having a creative economy, it's not just, you know, Ojai residents, but it's bringing other people in to appreciate, you know, all of the artistic, economic, And I wouldn't want to really put it out there that, I mean, there are some people who believe that they don't feel like this is their hometown, but there are a lot of people who do. And, you know, to have one voice kind of making a sort of generalization or, you know, sort of tailoring a survey to that,

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:57:57

No, it should be balanced.

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.793:57:59

It should be balanced. I agree. It should definitely be balanced. A lot of people don't feel like they're not in their hometown.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:58:05

I would just say that they're not. A lot

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.793:58:06

of people feel like

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:58:08

their hometown

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.793:58:08

is a parcel of everything.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:58:10

Sorry for interrupting. I was going to say that the things like the art gatherings, I would say the movies, the music festival, et cetera, there's tourists and residents here. And at least everybody I know thinks, oh, this is part of what Ojai life is also for me to go see music and go watch these shows.

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.793:58:27

Right, and without tourists that would not be here

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:58:29

because it just

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.793:58:30

couldn't be

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role3:58:31

sustained. So,

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 4Proposed3:58:33

a couple of things. So, the survey is I think addressing these things that we're talking about, but also it's looking at, you know, I think what we were talking about with the Arts Commission today is that there are so many people who are not participating in festivals and we don't have a way to look at that. Thank you very much. Thank you. Like me at the Carolyn Glasgow Bailey Foundation, you know, that those are things that we want that surveys like this could start tracking so that we could see, oh, we've got all this amazing talent in our community. We've got all these entrepreneurs, all these people who are doing all these things. How can the city, number one, support them so that they can bring in high paying jobs? And two, Make sure that the people who are doing, contributing massively to our community and to the world have the support they need, like through the chamber, for example, or through rental assistance, or whatever they would need.

So I think the survey would serve that purpose, too.

not transcribed≈8s of audible speech the AI couldn’t make out▸ listen
UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role4:00:08

So it possibly means some, I don't know what the survey looks like yet, maybe you do or maybe you don't, but It might be considering what happened today a little more with the creative economy that we see.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 22Proposed4:00:20

Right now we're working through the questions. Okay, okay. Absolutely. And that's why it's important that I identify that they are either going to, when I say quantitative versus qualitative, I'm talking about like multiple choice versus open-ended so that we can really kind of feed into what the model is moving

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role4:00:37

forward.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 4Proposed4:00:40

Are we going to have a chance to review that survey before it goes out?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 22Proposed4:00:47

Let me ask the question. Would you like to review the questions before they go live? I think we would. I can do that.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role4:00:55

And we won't be too fussy.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 4Proposed4:00:58

Also, I think, you know, we're all engaging with our constituents. We can help get those survey results. So, I mean, I'd like to participate in that.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 22Proposed4:01:09

I appreciate that. We did a survey early on, probably 2019, just to gauge interest both for those residents in Ojai and obviously within the Valley. Not until we put the banner up on the Ojai Valley News website did we suddenly get a much larger number of individuals. So it was interesting to see the dynamic of that.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role4:01:36

Okay, I have one public comment. Oh, I have two, sorry. Larry Stangold and Bill Miley.

4:01 – 4:1120 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 19Proposed4:01:47

Hi. Good evening. Environment, economic and climate is great. Okay. We need to move the safety element up further. And I believe you received letters from Renee Roth on all that stuff. I don't believe to understand what she's talking about. All right. It's not my forte. But either she's right and we're in violation or we're not in violation. That's an easy thing to do.

Oh, so just review it and if it is or it isn't, okay? I'm sure you might have seen it. That's okay. I'm not asking for it. Okay. The survey, all right? How long have they been here? Do they intend to stay here? Are they making it their primary residence? Are they going to be voters here? Because quite honestly, people coming into town to stay for a year or two or three and not making it their primary residence, I really don't care what they think.

Okay, I'm sorry. I live here. Okay, there are tenants here who have been here a long time, and they've been renting for 20, 30, 40, whatever it is, and they're getting pinched out. They have a say. Somebody moving in for a month or a year and not wanting to change their residence, they shouldn't be counted in the survey except, eh, okay, we'll take their information, it's nice, congratulations. Okay, but to me, they're not as important as the people who live here.

And the way to make the businesses, make the residential, make them feel every great? Let's find a way to lessen the traffic. If you can lessen the traffic, most of the residents will be ecstatic. If for nothing else, we know we're not shopping at all these little stores here that we can't afford. They can't afford to stay here. We get that. We have to go to Ventura or someplace or buy online and shop at four stores and pay higher prices. That's the cost of living in Ojai. That's life.

All right, but that's what my survey, and the economic development thing, and to discuss the focus groups, I would love to find out why we aren't doing the focus groups, but I haven't yet. So, anyway, good, thank you, keep moving forward. But this fire is important, because with fire, all of this is meaningless, okay? It doesn't matter, right? We got great this, great that, we got great art, pay for that, that's good, because without art, it's boring here.

Well, it is. Anyway, but that's what it is. Thank you very much.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role4:04:20

Thank

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 18Proposed4:04:20

you. Climate and Economic Planning. I'd like to shift to surveys. I strongly suggest that the Ojai Valley Chamber of Commerce become a major stakeholder in the planning processes for each of these general plan amendments and elements. With the new CEO, Carla Ferrante, whom I have met, there is new energy and direction in its mission. It's kind of exciting. I strongly agree with Council Member Whitman's emphasis on harmonizing the issues of residents and tourists. What, besides tourist money for city budgets, do the residents get that makes their city better and enricher?

And that they can point to, now and in the past, that has occurred. Thanks.

ElectedKim MangMayor Pro TemProposedvoiceprint 0.644:05:28

Thank you, Mr. Miley. Anything online? Yes, Mayor, we have Renee with a raised hand. Renee, you have the floor. Thanks.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 6Proposed4:05:37

Oh, good evening, Council. I am concerned. I like the ideas you're discussing about economic development and economic stimulation, and I think we need a variety of options, and I think a really good consultant will come up with ways To arrive at some really good ideas to diversify our economy and not just have it be so tourist-centric. I think the idea of round-robin sharing and group discussions and voting by ranking I don't think just a survey is going to do it. I really, in fact, I kind of resent the idea that just a survey is going to do it. I think you need to hear from people. They need to be able to vote and rank things and prioritize things. I remember the World Cafe events that the Ojai Valley Green Coalition did, which I thought were very successful.

You invited people in, you said, we have these ideas, go sit at a table and discuss these ideas, and which ones do you think float to the top? And then those ideas get included as something that's worth exploring in more detail. And I think that should not be underestimated. We have a really creative and divergent community that wants to participate in these things. And I think if you leave them out of this process, I think it creates resentment. It's really not...

It's foolhardy to underestimate the education and the interests of our community. We've got a great community of people who care about this, both of these things. But I do also think that you do have to address the safety element of the Ojai General Plan. While you're talking about the General Plan, you did mention In your report, some ideas that are part of the safety element, and I do hope you start making that a priority and updating the safety element part of the general PAN and issue an RFP to do so. Thank

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 20Proposed4:08:10

you. Unless there's other comments, I want to wait to the end. Thank you. If I could update one key point that was raised by some of the commenters. The city is fully in compliance with all state laws regarding the safety element for its current general plan. It is 35 years out of date. Thus, it needs to be updated. The laws that have been cited in some of the emails and other comments require on the next update, we must take into account a whole variety of things to be analyzed closely. Such as neighborhoods that have only a single access point. Flooding, including the new flood maps, the new fire hazard zone maps, etc. All of that is already in process. The current general plan update includes an update to the safety element, which is in process, and Mr.

Siebert can speak more to that. So we are fully in compliance with all applicable law. Thank you. Appreciate that. I

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 22Proposed4:09:01

would just echo with this. So there are, it's not just the safety element, it's also land use element, circulation element, and it's the environmental

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 10Proposed4:09:11

justice.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 22Proposed4:09:13

Environmental justice is actually going to be sprinkled throughout the elements that we're updating currently.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role4:09:20

So I'm hearing you say, we're going to file and receive this report, if that's what this body wants. And then we've asked, you've heard our interest in the creative economy, and you have agreed to let us see the survey before it goes out. And there's going to be public events, both for diversifying the economy and also... Taylor

Taylor Anything else? All those in favor? Oh, you go. We have a remote council member.

ElectedKim MangMayor Pro TemProposedvoiceprint 0.644:09:55

I know. Council member Rule. Roll call.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role4:09:58

Yes.

Roll-call vote Passed 4–0 · 1 under review
Show transcript
Mayor Pro Tem Lang. Yes. Mayor Gilman. Yes. Council member Mang. Yes. Council member Whitman. Yes.

Super. And I propose that we move the City Council goals to another day.

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.884:10:13

And if you have to do a special meeting, I think the time when we did a special meeting, it went. Yeah, and then we didn't have these, you know, other things and people showing up for other matters. I'd just as soon do a sole purpose.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role4:10:33

Thank you. I like that as well. I mean, that's just focused on that sounds just right. Okay, great, then that's our last item. And is there any council member reports?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 4Proposed4:10:46

Yes, please, go. So I am, I serve on the VCTC board and I just wanted to let everybody know that we have a weekend road closure happening from September 19th to Monday, September 22nd. And it is going to be the 33, State Route 33, North Fork, Matiloha Creek Bridge Roadway. And it's going to be a safety improvement closure.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role4:11:15

Thank you. That was easy. Anything else? Okay, and then, oh, yes,

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.794:11:22

please, go. I was just looking up the date. I guess I'll send it to everyone. VCOG, the Ventura County Council of Government, is having their annual dinner, and all elected officials are invited. So I will send out the invitation to everyone, and you can RSVP as you will.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role4:11:45

Thank you. Cool. Great. Future agenda items? I have a few.

4:11 – 4:1719 turns

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call4:11:55

Yes. If I could just politely remind the council that we have a whole list from the August 26 meeting. You guys are in a big, big backlog state. I can take them, but they're going to

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.884:12:09

be way offshore. I would like to see a report on what the city can do to enforce The zero zone requirements, what's the status of the law, and what are strategies? where we would, you know, send out letters. We might, especially like the severe, the high fire risk areas. I don't know what the legalities are of doing that, but I'd

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call4:12:48

like to ask. There's a fire guy here that might be able to shed some light on this. Chief, do you want to just, I mean, I think that Ventura County Fire Department is actually doing some of this, or will be. Do you want to just shed some light on this?

not transcribed≈14s of audible speech the AI couldn’t make out▸ listen
UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 23Proposed4:13:16

The state fire marshal hasn't come down with me. This is the set date that you have to start enforcing in Zone 0. So, as it stands right now, the FHRP, 100 feet within the wildland urban interface, 500 feet, we enforce that. We've been sending notices. I've involved Ben Harvey on one of the notices that was in the City of Ojai that we were going to go to. Thank you very much. Thank you.

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.884:13:58

I understand that we view fire risk as the most important issue that we deal with, and so do we want to wait for the state and the county to come up with their regulation mechanisms, or do we have any legal authority, you know, to say we want, you know, we're going to enforce that somebody accomplish the zero zone Thank you very

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 23Proposed4:14:29

much. Thank you.

not transcribed≈14s of audible speech the AI couldn’t make out▸ listen
ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.884:14:59

Yeah, so I guess I'm still interested in hearing what the legalities are, and we can certainly invite the chief to come and talk to us as we, you know, discuss that. But I'm interested in, you know, if we as a city have the authority to be more aggressive than the county or the state is being, given the fact that there already are Laws in place that say you must do this, but they simply haven't engaged in the rulemaking.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 20Proposed4:15:36

So, with a second, we're happy to bring a report back regarding the power the City has to be more aggressive than the County Fire Department. Mindful, as you've heard the Chief's comments, that may create significant challenges. But I hear you, you're asking the legal question, can

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.884:15:50

we?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 20Proposed4:15:51

So,

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.884:15:51

with a second, we can produce a report. My thought was we can apply caps that say, hey, once you hit $2,500, you're done.

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.794:15:59

So this is discussion, and we're on future agenda items, and it is 6.16 a.m.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 10Proposed4:16:07

in

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 20Proposed4:16:07

London. So was there a

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 10Proposed4:16:08

second? I'd second that.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 20Proposed4:16:11

We'll come back with a report. Thank you. Yeah,

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.884:16:13

I got one more. Actually, two more. I'd like to see us look at one of the things that I've heard a lot about is that Flammable fences and flammable sheds and other flammable structures are really, you know, high on the risk factor. So can we prohibit new construction of fences, sheds, and that type of thing, unless they're from a non-flammable soil?

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 20Proposed4:16:57

That's the same question. What's our power to go beyond county and state law? So those two are the same.

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.884:17:03

Okay. Good. Final one. I have a list of the county's prohibited plant lists. I would like to see us, you know, put this out for public comment for lists that we should, plants we should take off or add to this and get a report back at some point well into the future as to whether we have any authority to enforce the list. But we should at least create a list for people, you know, how to go on the city website and look for plants that are bad.

4:17 – 4:2121 turns

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 20Proposed4:17:52

We have a certain set of existing city rules regarding certain limited larger development projects have to go through an approved plant list. Smaller projects don't. We could bring a report back on the options to go beyond all of that if there was a second.

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.884:18:09

So my thought is that first, it's advisory, just like the don't eat this kind of fish. I mean, nobody's actually enforcing the, you know, but we could put a list out that says, hey, this is what the county has said is these are plants you should avoid. And then, like I said, secondarily, we can look at whether there's any way to enforce that.

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call4:18:39

I'm going to jump in. Both of these last two items are tough to enforce. Do we even, okay, when's the last, we don't have a fence permit. Oh, we do have a fence permit. We have a very hotly, we litigated fence issues before, that's not discussed. The fence permit is not adhered to, okay? It's going to be hard. We're talking a lot more resources if we're going to start going down to this level. We have an enforcement conversation coming up. We have a code enforcement item coming back. I would just bump all that into that item.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 20Proposed4:19:16

And I will note, my first five years here, we spent litigating fence issues. That was before anyone else in this room, but that's a huge issue in the past. That's a much bigger conversation.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role4:19:26

Let's do make sure that the code enforcement doesn't get pushed back too far. I know, we are adding things constantly, I totally get that.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 4Proposed4:19:35

Can I bring up something to take away? Or to change, actually? So we had some members of our community talking about how they would like to come The agenda item for the Mallory Way agenda item, but it's a Jewish holiday. And I'm wondering if we could move that item to a different date. There's a noticing requirement

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call4:19:59

with that. I

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 4Proposed4:20:00

mean, I think we

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call4:20:00

noticed already.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 22Proposed4:20:03

Notification was sent out.

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call4:20:04

We'd

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 22Proposed4:20:05

have to re-notice.

UnidentifiedCity ClerkProposed · by roll call4:20:06

Okay. We could. There's a cost involved.

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 22Proposed4:20:11

Yes, pretty minimal cost, but it would require us to re-notice. The situation with that is we would still have to have an item and identify that it's discontinued or just take it off calendar and then re-notice. Those are the two options. And

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 4Proposed4:20:33

I would like to add having a feasibility

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 18Proposed4:20:39

study

UnidentifiedUnidentified speaker 20Proposed4:20:40

on the honor farm.

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.794:21:01

for permanent

ElectedAndrew WhitmanCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.884:21:10

supportive housing.

ElectedLeslie RuleCouncilmembervoiceprint 0.794:21:18

So I'm not sure what that looks like, but I think we have some places to start at least.

UnidentifiedCity ManagerProposed · by role4:21:30

All right. All right, with that meeting adjourned.