Ojai City Council Special Meeting

Are we ready, Ms. Mara? Okay, great. Welcome, everybody, to the Tuesday, October 21st Special City Council meeting. Roll call, please, Ms. Mara. Thank you.

Here.

Here.

Here. Here. Here.

Here.

public comments, of which I have a couple. Mr. Steve Quilici, Nick Oatway, and Eric Ryder, please. Thank you. Not all at once.

Thank you, Mayor and Council and staff. I come not as your City Clerk tonight, but as the Commander of the Veterans of Foreign Wars Post. And I wanted to say a big thank you to the Mayor and to the City Manager, who both took turns in the dunk tank at Ojai Day. That was cold duty. And I especially want to thank Bridget who gave the best impression I have ever seen of a carnival barker, dragging people in to support the VFW, and dunk the mayor, dunk the city manager, and there were long lines for both.

But anyway, thank you very much.

Thank you

very much. That

was kind of you. Nick Oatway, please, Eric Reiter, and then Brian Aikens.

Well, thank you for all your work. And I have just a word or two to say about community and the wonder of this place. And I would like to make just a word about what community means to me. And it is having people's faces and people that I know to say hello to when I'm going down the sidewalk. And it's people who I've never seen here before coming down the sidewalk.

I've had the joy of helping people find their way to the museum. I say, well, it looks like a church, but it's actually the museum. And that's wonderful to give people a feeling that we are a community. And I'll have a statement to make at a later time in one of the issues related to enjoying having people work in Ojai who live in Ojai. And also an idea about the movement of people through this valley. I'm sure you all noticed the last few days have just been, it's like this evening coming into Ojai, the hills, everything is so crystal clear. It's like somebody, some great power way beyond us has sort of blown all the bad stuff away.

So I just, it's just a, it's an appreciation for your work, each of you, and an appreciation for the sense of community. Thanks.

Thank you, sir. It's very nice. Eric Reiter, please, and then Brian Aikens. Hello.

And in an ideal world, the city manager for a small, isolated community would be an adaptable and innovative generalist with a deep-seated commitment to the community's well-being. This person would serve as a resourceful and empathetic leader, capable of balancing modern best practices with the unique needs of a small town like. They would be a strategic planner in order to best enact the intentions of the city council members who are elected by the community to pursue and realize.

Moving beyond day-to-day issues to create a long-term vision that identifies areas for modest, sustainable growth, leverages financial opportunities, and strengthens the local economy while respecting the community's character. The manager must be an empathetic listener with a strong ethical core to genuinely consider residents' feelings, especially when navigating difficult social and political dynamics.

Finally, they must be a resilient steward, humble enough to admit when they don't have all the answers, transparent with their decisions, and publicly accountable when mistakes are made. They would foster civic engagement, inspire volunteerism, and be the calm professional prepared to handle crises in a small, isolated environment. Despite the stated goals of job creation by Mayor Andy Gilman during his campaign, the current City Manager, Ben Harvey, appears to be actively working against the community's best interest. He seems to be working in earnest to not hire employees from Ojai's community, instead employing the least cost-effective solution for trolley drivers, with contracts that generally cost twice as much as hiring locally.

This disregard for local hiring is a missed opportunity to save money and keep resources within Ojai's local economy. In the end, all logical evidence continues to point to a determined effort by the City Manager to end Ojai's trolley service. Compounding all this, Mr. Harvey has given himself a raise while simultaneously eliminating his own responsibilities.

These actions suggest two possibilities. Either Mr. Harvey is not capable enough to manage the city's business, or he simply wants less to do that might conflict with personal activities, such as defending himself from lawsuits and playing golf at the exclusive Ojai Valley Inn, rather than our own beautiful public Soule Park Golf Course. Leaving one simple question, why are you even in public service, Mr. Harvey?

Thank you. Brian Aikens, please.

Hello, Council. I am here in conjunction with Chair Gina McCattin, Vice Chair Lorann Sims, Commissioners Craig Walker, Rick Bisaccia, Laurel Martin, and myself. We just had two fabulous events, and so we wanted to take this opportunity to thank the Council and the many people that were supporting us, both through the process in getting us there and also those that were able to attend. So Friday night was the unveiling for the historic district plaque that's there right in front of where Village Pharmacy was.

It was beautiful. It is beautiful. I was talking to Lucas and he confirmed with me that, yes, it is really heavy. So kudos to Public Works. So we're grateful to those that were able to be there, Councilwoman Mang, Councilwoman Rule, And Mara Gilman and others. That went beautifully. The next thing is, and if you haven't seen the plaque, Set aside some time, because we try to put a little bit of history along with the beauty.

So a lot of good history in there, thanks to a write-up that was prepared by Commissioner Craig Walker. The other item, of course, was Ojai Day. I'd like to tell you how Ojai Day went, but I never made it across the bike trail. All day long, we were packed at the jail. I closed the jail, I think, at 20 to 6. My wife kept giving me these pills so my legs didn't cramp all night long. But it was a wonderful event. I'd like to thank all of those that attended. I'd like to thank Christy and Bridget for their support.

It's just wonderful when the community comes out and, you know, people who make it all the way down to the jail and enjoy it and we're there by referral. We love that. We had lots of families. I got to slam several young kids. I was telling people the thing I love the most is when... They now know what the slammer

means.

So I told them that I love it when this group of girls or even group of boys comes in and they're always like, no, you go in the cell. No, you go in the cell. And then they leave and then they come back with their own new group. And not only do they tease them about, you go in the cell. They gave the whole tour, and I just sit there and enjoy it. I also want to thank Richard Sennett, who stayed for several hours and was giving lots of information. And one other person I just want to mention as going, I see that our Chief of Police isn't here. I was going to caution him that he looked way too happy when he had my arms behind my back.

I saw the picture.

Yes, it looks way too real. So thank you to that, and thank you to all.

Just a quick, I just wanted to say, Brian, thank you and the HPC. The jail is one of the highlights. There were kids heading in there. They were like skipping to go to jail. And they were totally excited. It was really wonderful. And its placement got them in the middle of Libbey Park. It was truly, really, really wonderful to see. So thank you so very much.

Yes, thank you very much. I did get a report that the longest line for the dunk tank, I'll see that some of these days, was for the City Manager Harvey. So, I don't know if that was true or not, but they did say it went quite a ways down the street.

So, thank you all. Thank you. Ojai Day was amazing. Great feedback all day long. Okay, Ms. Mara, is there anybody online wanting to come

in? No, no one's online.

Okay, thank you very much. All right, we'll move on to the consent calendar. Mr. Mayor, just one

question. Oh, please. Just for the record. Go. I haven't played golf in Ojai or anywhere in over ten years, just so everyone knows. I don't play golf. Okay.

Thank you. Noted. Does anybody want to pull anything from the consent calendar? I know all I want to do is thank Mr. Steve Mason for repeated volunteering, but anybody want to pull anything else?

I have a couple questions on the budget.

Great, so we'll pull number one.

I have questions on one and two.

Okay, well, let's just talk about both then.

We'll ask Ms. Cervantes to join us. Thank you.

Yes, please, go

ahead. Okay, and I will start by saying that usually, Norma, every week, you're so good with sending these because I usually have a lot of questions, and this week, I didn't have the time to send my weekly email, so I'm just gonna address it here, and if you need more time, I don't have an issue with meeting with you down the road. Thanks. I just had a couple questions.

Let's see. With the city management advisors, the finance director recruitment, I know that you've hired new people, and I just want some clarification because we've spent a lot of money for the firm to look for people that you said we had 61 applicants. So I'm just curious, out of those 61 applicants, how many were truly qualified? And were the people that you chose from Agora, did they go through the same mix as the 61 people that applied through the agency?

So, multi-part question here. I don't have at my fingertips the list of those who applied who met the minimum qualifications. You know, that we were, if you looked at the recruitment brochure, we were looking at a minimum number of years of local government experience and increasingly advanced roles. I can certainly get that to you. For the finance director, because that was what the recruitment was for, the candidate we ultimately ended up hiring was initially interested and contacted for the recruitment. She accepted another job elsewhere, and at the end of the recruitment, when we did not find a fit, that's when we collectively decided to reach out to her to see if maybe she would still be interested, and that's when we were able to bring her on board.

So I would be interested in this, and I don't know of anybody else, but just the 61 candidates to spend, you know, so much money. So did they advertise it incorrectly that there were that many people that weren't qualified? No. I'd just like to see what the issue was.

So the issue is finance in general, and since, you know, I've been involved in HR and local government since the early 90s, finance and community development are historically the hardest departments to recruit for. If you have young children who are considering fields, I would strongly encourage them to go in either area. There just are not a lot of folks in those tracks, and that's just historically been the way that it's always been. I remember having difficulty hiring a finance director back in 92.

All the way through my career, it's always been that way, and if you ask any of the big recruiting firms, this is always the challenge. They really spend a lot of time and effort. They have databases. They make contacts. They search. But, ultimately, it's all about fit. And so, even though we had a number of folks that we went, brought through the recruit, excuse me, the interview process, the panel, the recruiter and myself just didn't feel that there was anybody that came through that was really going to meet our needs. So, I would say, yes, it's a lot of money, but ultimately, we did end up getting a good candidate, and you will meet her next week.

Is the question to basically look at the service to decide in the future maybe we don't use the service since we didn't use it? I see the

question. And to spend that much money if we had all these applicants that were qualified. Yeah, that. Okay. I have, let me see here, the Clean Harbors Environmental

Service.

Okay, $14,035. It says for lithium battery removal and OTT tent decontamination. I was wondering what the breakup is because with OTT tent decontamination, there's also another fee that we've been using. So for the month of October for decontamination, we're looking if we add the two totals, $21,850 is a big chunk.

Yeah, a big chunk of that did go, we had a lithium battery that caught fire, and that was a very expensive endeavor to safely remove that and dispose of that. As you likely know, not a lot of firms are willing to do that, including our own fire department, for understandable reasons. But on top of that, we have done a major cleanup effort at OTT, and we've actually had a couple folks we had to ask to leave, and that is costly in cleaning up and cleaning out. And so I can give you a breakdown. I don't have it at my fingertips, but we

can certainly do that. I was just curious with the one, because if it's going to be that pricey, it seems like the other one. It averages about 7,000 a month. So I didn't know out of the 14, I just like split it in half and we're still looking at quite a bit of money, 14,000.

We have, I can just tell you as far as, sorry to step on you, as far as the battery goes, we have tightened up what we allow as far as batteries are concerned, not only in OTT, but also for the disposal here at City Hall because we're in an oak woodland and we don't want any episodes like that again.

Okay, perfect. And then this is just me. It's been on the last few months and it just caught my eye again. For help of Ojai, $4,500 for an ADA program. And when I looked on their website, they say they don't have an ADA, so I'm wondering if maybe this is like transportation?

Yes, yes, exactly right. So the city, right, we pay them a stipend for that. And it's the The band that you see driving around town that provides that paratransit access.

Okay, perfect. I'm sorry, you guys. No, that's okay. Take your time. Take your time. You know, and then once again, with finance, with the MV Chang, that runs about $10,000 a month, what it's been going. And I know that Norma's addressed this a few times, that we're like borrowing people. And for the

amendment- Not for long. That's the other exciting thing. We really feel that we're close to bringing on a full-time accountant, and so I hope to have some exciting news in that area very soon.

Because going back to this, what my concern is, like, yes, I know that we've needed help and all that stuff, so I don't know how many people are in the finance department, and if we're bringing two to three in a month from this company. There's a lot of, like, for instance, the last meeting with the budget for security for Tent Down, and that document, as we all know, was a mess, and it wasn't presented at the last meeting. And it just seems to me like we're spending all of this money on finance to get a lot of paperwork, a lot of information that's kind of shoddy, in my opinion.

Okay, well, we are going to give you a report on all the progress we've made. I think that's coming in November or December. We've got what we refer to as the Ide Bailey list, which is on the website, that a third party came in and told us all the things we need to fix, and we're about 90% complete. So, we are making some major strides, including being very close to launching the accounts payable module in our enterprise software system. So, appreciate your patience and the Council's patience as we get there. We, you know, I think once we have our new director, you know, our new accounting manager, not to discredit anything, all the great work that Norma has done, of course, but and an accountant on board will really be But it is a process, and when things need to be fixed in the way that they did in that department, it just takes a long time.

Okay, that's all the questions.

Thank you, I appreciate it. Any other questions about number one?

Yeah. Okay. I think I already saw this warrant, but I'm not sure. Anyway, so I noticed that on page eight, Myers-Nave, a professional corporation who is a special counsel for mediation, has Brown Act there, and it's mediation, not a Brown Act, and I think we've made that correction before. Just as an official document, that isn't what it's for.

We can make that correction, thank you. Okay.

And I will note that, cha-ching.

Okay. So we can have a vote on number one, and then we'll go on to number two, unless number two is fast or simple. Did you have a question about number two?

Yeah, I just think it's great, the recommendations and everything. This person, you know, done a great job. I was just curious as if it was out there for anybody else, if they were interested, instead of just choosing this person, reinstating again. That's my only question.

So I could just jump in on that. We did not fly this position simply because this individual expressed an interest in continuing to serve, and the agency said he's really a very valued member of their board. And so we, in that instance, wanted to allow them the opportunity, should the council decide. However, if you don't want to re-employ, we can certainly post and go out for other applications.

I'm hearing you say you would like to

open that. I'm sure there's people, you know what I mean? And if nobody else applies, then obviously, or there could be, you know, like with anything, there could be other people that apply and it comes back to this person being the right one for the task. That's all. So whatever everybody else, that's just how I feel.

Understood. Any thoughts? I've never heard anybody else express any interest in this position personally, but that doesn't mean there isn't, I suppose.

I don't think there's any harm in having a short period of opening up applications. See who applies. The criteria does say a preference for somebody who lives within the city limits. Mr. Mason doesn't. So I would be interested to see if someone was as, you know, likely to do as good a job as him, but was actually a city resident. But I wouldn't keep the, you know, since his term is ending, I wouldn't, you know, have an overly long application period, but we could certainly do a notice. And my other comment is, Mr. Mason or whoever is our representative on that area housing authority should come in and give a report every once in a while because I don't think we've heard from him or what that.

Not in the last year for sure.

And I think it goes back much further than that, might be three years. So we should know what is happening with that board and what our representative is advancing. If there aren't any other comments, I propose that we open up applications for 30 days for that position. And do a, you know, maybe two notifications in the newspaper in the meantime.

Happily. Yeah, does anybody, does that sound good?

Yep.

It's, it looks like it's quite an ask. It's driving to Newberry Park at 3 p.m. of the fourth Wednesday. That's quite a, quite a task.

Could we clarify for Ms. Mara who the second was? I'll second.

Yep. Thank you.

Thank you.

No thanks for that. Well, we need, I was actually going to propose that, that sounds good. We didn't actually move number one yet. So maybe we want to have two separate motions just for clarity. Let's do number one.

I was confused on that. No,

well, let's start with number one. So I move to accept consent item number one. Second. Great. Okay. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Opposed? Abstentions? Okay. And then, so now we're on to number two. And Mr. Whitman, do you want to say it one more time?

Open up the application, provide public notice on two separate occasions, have an open period for applications for 30 days, and then bring it back to us for an appointment, depending on who applies,

if anyone. So, actually, if there's multiple, it looks like we'll have to go through the council vetting. Am I saying that correctly? I would think

so. So the motion should read that we follow our process if we have applicants. Otherwise, we bring back the reappointment of Mr. Mason. Okay. I'll second.

Can I ask what is our process? Because we don't have I mean, we're not appointing to a commission.

But in council's discretion, you could choose to do the nominating committee. You just, it would have to be the mayor and a rotating council member because you don't have a chair in this instance.

Look, under the discussion, it says each participating jurisdiction appoints two commissioners to the board of commissioners, each serving a four-year term. That doesn't mean that, that doesn't mean jurisdictions in our city, correct? That would be in the larger organization, right?

My question has to do with we have a process for nominating members to commissions that actually have multiple members. So we have rotating council members where it makes sense. Here it does not make sense because unless you're just going to pick somebody out of a hat or In other words, I'm asking for clarification on what the process would actually be. Because there is no rotating, there is no commission, we're not gonna have another commissioner for four years. So we're not gonna have a rotating council member.

Well, it would be in your discretion to set a process. If you wanted to set a process similar to the one that you have for your commissions, you could do that. You just don't have a chair, so it would default to a consensus between the mayor and a rotating council member to make a recommendation to the council that's ratified by the council.

So there's something similar, if we were to move on item number four, we have a similar situation, right? We don't have an existing chair, so we would have to figure that out.

Correct, and I believe there's a process recommended in that staff report, which mirrors that. It continues without the chair, because there is none.

But you're understanding the distinction here?

I do understand. In Council's discretion, you can set the process. So if you're unhappy with that process for this Commissioner, you can propose a different one for your colleagues.

And so I have a proposal for now, though, which is let's see what happens. And if we only have Mr. Mason, then no problem. And if we have multiple, then we'll figure it out.

Well, this is the process that will come up again. I just don't know how you have rotating council members when you not actually that model was developed for a particular to Thank you. Thank you.

Survive this process so that we don't have a gap in service for this commission, and then we can come back with a concept review to propose for alternative commissions that, or bodies that are outside of the City Council's purview, but necessary for the City to participate. I'm not quite sure off the top of my head how many that we have where residents need to participate, but we could definitely create some kind of a process Thank you. Thank you.

To bring it back, or to notice it for 30 days, and in the Ojai Valley News, and then follow our process if there is no applicant.

Actually, I think, Ms. Mara, what I heard, just gonna slightly modify that, 30 day window for new applicants, public notice on two separate occasions, bring back for appointment.

Okay. I like that because it keeps the appointment process unstated. Okay? Okay. All right. Ms. Mara, do you want to call in?

Council Member Whitman?

Yes.

Council Member Rule?

No.

Mayor Gilman? Yes. Mayor Pro Tem Lane? Yes. Mayor Gilman, oh wait, Council Member Mang. Yes. Sorry.

Thank you. Okay, so we're through the consent. On to the discussion items, and we have the City Council goals. Mr.

Mayor, give us a moment. Sure. Ms. Mara is going to help me, and thank you for doing that, Ms. Mara, by bringing up the spreadsheet. So that we can get to goals number eight and nine. I'm just gonna bumble through there with the hard copies, so give me a moment as

well. Can I say a couple things while we're doing that? You bet. Just to my colleagues, so remember that we have gone through most of the items, and we have created a hierarchy of the tactics that we think are the most important, and the staff has come and they've quantified those things, and that's in our document for today. So the thought is we have eight and nine still to do that for.

So we can look at the tactics of eight and nine and let's see how long that takes. And if we have more time or more appetite, we can go back to some of the quantified items, maybe starting at number one, if you've all agreed to that.

Yeah, and I have an alternative proposal, which is that we, you know, potentially get the city manager to devise a form for us to go through the ones where we've already kind of Set out what our top priorities and comment because I know that there's some where the goal language may have drifted a little bit. And so as opposed to spending a whole bunch of... Are you saying for 8 and 9 or going back? If and when we go back. I see. My suggestion is our first roll through is just to have each of us submit in writing If we have any comments or concerns about what's in the goals or what are our priority topics.

And I think if I could, Council Member Whitman, I think if I understand correctly, I just want to clarify, you're speaking to the actual language of a tactic, I believe. Is that correct? Yes, a tactic. And I would tell the Council, if there is any deviation from what was originally proposed to what you see in the spreadsheet, There is nothing malicious on my part intended. I think I was just trying to make sure I understood things, but if I did not understand something correctly and I materially changed a tactic, please, that would be welcome. But just know that there was no agenda on my

part. No, that sounds reasonable. And then, Ms. Anderson, I just want to ask, so should we jump into 8 and 9 and then take public comments on the item or do that first? What's your suggestion?

I would take public comments on the item as a whole. Okay. Because then you're putting yourself in a situation. I'm

saying in time, like now.

Yeah, I would do it

now. Okay, fine with me. Okay, let me start with Larry Steingold, please, and then Bill Miley, and then we'll jump into it.

Hello. City Council goal. I think it's wonderful that everybody's organized and we're trying to get tactics and strategy. Little things, like fire. I've been here eight years. Everybody talks about fire. They've been talking about it forever here. And the city's finally put up a million dollars. We signed a contract. We've done this. The state's doing this after three years with the Cal Fire.

But I believe it's incumbent upon the city to inform buyers and tenants that their homes and apartments are either fire-hardened or they're not. So I think if a house goes under sales agreement, that should automatically go to the Fire Council. They can do an inspection and tell the buyer that the house he's going to be looking at is not fire-hardened. Then he can either renegotiate the deal or do something. Because otherwise, we're creating a problem that the homes are not getting fire-hardened because nobody's doing it, unless you have to.

Traffic. Since I've been here, traffic is a big, big deal. What are we going to do tomorrow, next week, next year? Not in 2027 and not in 2023. They're building 15,000 homes in Santa Clarita, 22,000, 1,500 in Santa Paula, and when the 123, or I think it's the 123, is backed up and they want to go to the beach, they're all going to be coming this way. And those are just the commuters. Those aren't the people working here. Those aren't the people coming in to live on either side of the valley. The franchise agreement, that's great. As the franchisor, what do we get?

Also, what happens if the company that's putting in the fiber goes belly up? Do we acquire the wire? What's the deal? What is the cost to hook up to the home? What is the average cost? Because once they're in, they're never going away, so you might as well just give them a monopoly, all right, and just get transferred, because once people sign up, they're not going anywhere. If it works, who cares, right?

Paving. Paving should not be slurry. It should be asphalt. Right? Because south, southern, if you haven't walked on drown, on south drown, you should. And do it on a hot day. Your feet will stick to the slurry. Thank you very much. Everybody knows. That way you're not forcing a sale upon sale, but you are informing them and you're disclosing, which now puts it back on the broker to disclose, or the owner, or the landlord, because why should it be any different for them? Thank

you, Mr. Stengel. Bill Miley, please.

Hello. Hello. Hello. Number nine, communication and relationship. I would again like to suggest the council consider authorizing the creation of an annual report to the public on the status of the City of Ojai government and how it serves our residents, 7,500, and folks beyond and about. But specifically on item 9i, quote, improved transparency, including closed session minutes.

What I think is missing is considering audio recording, which has been widely discussed in the past, and minutes won't do it. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miley. Ms. Mara, anything online?

No, Mayor, there are no raised hands online.

Thank you. Okay. Let's get to it.

Okay, so I'm not going to give you all, unless you would really like to hear it more than an eighth time, the speech on why we do these and their significance. I think we've gone through that a few times. But what we'd like to do is the same approach as we have done previously, which is allowing each member to please select their top three tactics. And we are looking to see where we have the concentric circles.

And after the so-called voting, then we arrive at what our priorities are that we are going to be working on first within this goal area. So, I'm not going to put anybody on the spot. I know it's difficult to go first, but do I have a volunteer from

you all, Mayor? No, I think we need our five minutes to go over that first. I'm sorry. There you go. You haven't memorized these? I do have a copy in my thing

here.

And of course we can answer questions if anything's not clear or if we've modified something so you don't recognize

it. Sorry, and one more step. Any freebies that we can remove? Oh yeah, for sure. Let's try the freebies.

Well, yes, so you do see that 8B and 8F are completed and I will add also I saw another one in here. So

all the ones that say completed, we can remove from our choices?

Yes.