Ojai City Council Special Meeting

We are momentarily okay on good to go. Thanks

Hey all welcome to the Thursday, June 11th special meeting of the Ojai City Council roll call, please

me too.

I'd

be okay with that. You're

talking about going into the closed session first? Yes.

No, they comment and then we go into the closed session. Then we come back and discuss the chairs.

Which means I have to hang out.

Or come back.

Or come back. Don't do anything, but wait to come back.

I hadn't thought about that. I was thinking of the public comment parts, but you're right. That does impact you so

we

need not do

it. It does impact me. I understand. I do have

plans. Okay, no,

that's fair. But having been said, sure.

Are you sure?

I mean, it's a burden to me. I understand. But I don't want it to be a burden to them as well. So I was very specific about looking at the agenda and making sure my plans... We could

text you like 10 minutes before we think we're going to start so that you can come back.

And I can come back from the beach in Ventura. Oh no, that wouldn't... Yeah okay, I mean I could do that. Let's just go ahead and we will accommodate our audience.

Thank you. That's generous of you. Any other changes to the agenda? Okay, thank you for that. Okay so we will take the public comments on our concept review placement of chairs and other personal property within the right way. Do you want to say a few words or anything?

Just keep it really brief, yeah just so that there's some context if anybody watches this later. So thank you we're here for an open session concept review discussion if the council would like to provide some direction not for this meeting but at a future time for the city to consider taking some type of action or establishing a policy or creating an ordinance Regarding the placement of chairs and other items in the public right-of-way in and around the time frame of the 4th of July. The reason why we're here, I've only been here for a couple years folks but I have seen that the timeline of the placement of the chairs get longer and longer and longer As city manager, I certainly have the authority to go out there and round them all up because they are in the public right-of-way.

However, little context, um, I had a similar situation when I was city manager in Pacific Grove with beach blankets on the beach and the 4th of July ceremony or the celebration there. I did round them up one year and It was not a good move, so I think policies like this need to be discussed in public. Council needs to take the lead and then I will implement if the council decides to do anything and that's why we're here.

Thank you.

And let us know who you are. Thank you for this opportunity, I'm Gail Birch and thank you Andy, Ben Weston and new friends okay anyway um I met Ojai about 50 years ago fell in love immediately knew I would raise my family here knew I would never leave well you know I will probably leave sometime but that happens but anyway oh What I loved about it was its beauty, its small townness, its kind people and the character of the—the character and the characters who lived here.

And uh, I felt like I belonged here. And I've gone to just about every Fourth of July parade. I have never brought a chair with me! Still I'm always excited to see when the first chair will show up and I love it because she chose me that I live in this quirky Town, that is not every town USA and I just wanted to say thank you for listening That's it. Okay, and I hope you go with my plan. Thank

you.

Thank you Carol come up

And I think the chairs should be put out on the 15th of July. I think the first, in my opinion, because I live down- You mean the 15th of June? Yeah that's what I meant. Yes okay, understand. You know what I meant, I'm glad you're listening there. So I think it's too soon to have it on the 1st of June. I live at, you know, Whispering Oaks and I have to drive up that street and now there's this great big white chair. And I thought it was a junk chair. I thought somebody was going to come haul it away and then I realized they had put it there for the 4th of July. And I thought no, that's a little too much—too early.

That's my opinion. I'm glad they're there. I don't know is it because we think tourists There's more tourists coming that are going to gobble up the spaces, and so residents have to claim their space quicker. I don't know what the thinking is behind so early. But 15th is fine with me.

Thank

you.

Any comments online? No raised hands, Mayor, but we do have one participant. And

if I might, I just want to do a temperature check in here. If we thought we could do this in 20 minutes, then I might suggest we just keep the order. Do you see my point? If we thought that was possible.

I'm not talking

anymore. You gotta bring it back anyway so we can just give some direction as to what would

come back. Yeah, if it's okay and then you can go. No, I mean we should I think we could do it.

Yeah, I mean I'm fine

Okay, but no,

I know you're fine. Yeah Thank you for the accommodation It's hot out there that he just calling for sure. You know, it's all good.

I think I think we understand the issue pretty well so Can we go into then the discussion? Sure. I think we're in discussion.

Okay when I Saw the first chair come out this year. I thought my immediate thought was oh, you know I wish I'd brought this up sooner. Let's see if we can get this on calendar to talk about next year. Since then, I discovered that there actually is a threat safety that's being created by the chairs and so we have to maybe look at it potentially take actions.

So, you know I'm interested. My thought, I talked to a bunch of people would be that one week before the 4th of July would be a reasonable date to allow people bring their chairs out and for that but what I you know the thing that I heard about this is that so the chairs are out there and then Hooligans are knocking them over, you know into the right-of-way The person who left the chair isn't like taking responsibility for maintaining them after they leave them and so I'm interested if there's a reasonable provision that after granting that this kind of one period Permission. They actually have to take responsibility For the chairs while they're there

Let's just go around

I think like a week or so seems like it would be sufficient. Like he says with those chairs, I noticed in front of OUSD there's probably 15 or 20 chairs that are all roped together and taking up the space. So I don't know if you feel bad limiting the amount of chairs? I don't know about having people to place the chairs be responsible because then they'd have to go down numerous times a day because kids are kids and it is summer break.

So I don't, and then I'm wondering if it should be limited to just like camping folding chairs. You can't bring a couch, you can't do... Somebody said something and I thought it was pretty clever and I didn't think about it. Like okay so the people with the couches that are out there Fourth of July to take a photo of those sitting on the couch because most likely it's theirs and when it's not removed and it's the city's responsibility to haul it away, you can come back but I'm sure it's more than just that I would sit on the couch up there, but that's what I think.

So in the sampling I did, it settled on two weeks in advance somewhere earlier somewhere closer to the time two weeks in advance and that if there were any instances reported that it was in the right-of-way or we saw them they would be removed Um, and that there would be a public communications effort. That would start right away. That would be on Facebook and next door in our website and all of that to say this is what we're agreeing on if they're in the right away. We're going to take them. We have to do there has to be a right way.

And yeah, the difficulty if anything is left that we would try to document it. But I just as far as the number and who it is, that seems harder this year seems a little hard because then we have to figure out what do we do with the chairs that are there now? That's I mean, I guess we could ask people take them for a couple of weeks exposed in any case. That's where it settled for me. I like the nostalgia of it too, but the walkways have to be OK.

I feel the same way. I think I agree with what was shared in our public comments and in some of the written ones that we had, that this is a tradition and it's That thing says summer in Ohio, like the chairs. So I'm good with two weeks. Our public works director gave a pretty compelling case for having the policy in place and for the accessibility concerns and the challenges that the burden on the public works The staff, so I would be okay with one week. I'd be okay with two weeks but I think limiting it is something that we need to do and then also what you suggested about having the ability to remove any chairs that were in the right of way.

Yeah, I mean I'm fine with one week or two weeks. I kind of skewed towards one week because I think that's enough time and I think you know we need to also make it the chair owner's responsibility to keep it out of the right-of-way and let them know if it is in the right-of way. I mean that's part of the condition of allowing this to happen is that you take responsibility for keeping it out of the right-o-way So I would say that, that I would put that on the chairperson. You know who's ever putting the chair out and you know yeah if it's in the right-of-way and we're going to you know remove it or push it out of the right-of way whatever we're gonna do so yeah I can go either way I think one I understand two weeks too, it's like people have this feel.

And if it's not in the right of way, we already have a precondition that it can't be in the right of way then two weeks is okay. So, you know I'm six one half dozen to the other on that on the time. I see both reasons why two is good and why one is also so

Mr. Harvey I'm just wondering though if we were gonna try something this year how would that be implemented because we're bringing this back when it's on the 23rd

We'd have to, unless you called another special meeting next week which you could. That might be the best bet. I'm just looking at the calendar and one thought is... Okay so a week away from the 4th is the 27th of June. One thought and I'm not saying this is the way to go. If we had a special meeting next week maybe... Sorry not maybe. I could bring back a draft policy. I am envisioning a policy saying You can set your chairs out up to one week in advance of the event, up to. So that would be starting on the 27th which is a Saturday ensuring that there's ADA access in the right-of-way so that means I might have to also provide some...

I'd have to talk to the city attorney about that because some people are gonna need measurements, right? Here's the part where I'm struggling You're not supposed to put stuff in the right-of-way.

So, this is a thought that I have and I don't know if it's feasible at all but you know what if we had like a no fee permit process where we had all of this, the parade route mapped out and somebody can come in and reserve their spot starting on some date and that spot gets taped off So there's nothing in the right-of-way, but they have the right to bring their chairs and expect that it can be vacant.

Well I like that idea if you did something like that That's a good idea You wouldn't even need to tape it off because we would be controlling well Yes We probably would tape it off But we would control and we would only allow the placement I was

looking at what other cities I'm sorry to interrupt Ben but The one thing I would mention is that there we would want to take a quick look And we can do this before this would come back at another special meeting at the arrangement with Caltrans, because there may be some limitations on issuing a formal permit. But I think the other thing I would recommend is that both Caltrans and the Americans with Disabilities Act include requirements related to WIT in order to maintain accessibility for People who may have accessibility challenges. And so, you know, I think if we were to do something like what the city manager is suggesting that, you know, maybe we identify what the width would be the minimum with that has to be maintained. And so that way, at least not that every resident will be out with a tape measure measuring the width or the area that would remain but at least there's some guidance we can provide.

So if there's a segment of sidewalk that's particularly narrow people may have some notice that that may not be an appropriate place for a chair.

Also, I totally understand everything that's being said and I would it would sadden me to see a go personally not say that That's the right call. I Would be sad if there weren't chairs out there before But it has to be safe.

Well, I think we're kind of illustrating why the city doesn't have a policy Right away and it's really it's against everything that we normally we don't allow people to leave items in our park We don't allow people so We have to really think about that, but what we could do I'm thinking probably the best solution is I could work with the city attorney. We could come up with some options for you to select from. I think the only thing I would need from you—I don't recommend coming back on the 23rd because like I said that's not enough time. You have a very full agenda. Would you be able to commit to a special meeting on this hot topic next week? On the 16th? Or some other day whatever.

Well if we were going to meet on the 16th, we actually could take the full agendas and spread them out just a hair.

Oh you mean have another additional full-blown? Well I'm not saying full blown, I'm saying

one or two.

Okay have a night meeting on the 16 potential.

No,

no,

I'm saying we don't currently have a meeting on the

16th

if

we had a meeting we were coming and we could take and the mayor is suggesting we Possibly address one additional Matter and if it wasn't more than one ID We can keep it short. Thank you. Sure.

I'm not gonna be here but I consume in

Okay

We're looking at a special meeting on the 16th, 6pm start time. We know we have one council member who's going to provide us with an address so that she can zoom in and it'll be up to two topics. One will be Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think that's part of what we need to do.

Anything that requires a truck and two strong men, or women.

Or did they just dump it? Well

that's

the

thing. So then just thank you for that. That sounds like a good plan so then but the ideas will be a timing policy what to do with the chairs that are in place right now etc etc because if it was at the 23rd and then two weeks in advance that I mean the 16th and if the timeline were two weeks in advance Right so this might be not a takeaway any chairs this time for next year.

Well I'm just yeah I'm open but

the take away of the chairs is gonna be tricky before that meeting on

We have a social media we should yeah, we should issue something that identifies that If you've got chairs out there and they become an impediment. They're at risk of being removed

So we already have a draft ready to go we wanted to wait for this discussion so that's helpful We can I can put that out as early as tonight.

Let's do that

Norma is that some okay? Norma's on that. Thank you

Does anybody disagree with that? Okay Okay, all right. Thank you. Okay, thank you. Thanks for coming. So it's really quick. Yeah, come up here though. But we don't want to go into a back and forth just say your piece.

I'm an organizer. And I'm thinking whatever you decide someone should print a one sheet and put it on all those chairs before this July 3rd. Put it on everybody's chair also have you checked with any other city what they do?

It's more stringent than

us. In regards?

Yes, we have. It's the night before.

Right, nobody allows this. Everybody else has just put their chairs up the night before?

Yeah, that's what Pasadena

does. We're very liberal and progressive and interesting. Yeah, they go midnight at night.

So you have what you need? Okay, I think we're done with that issue then. Thank you for the quick work and the media posts and we will go into the closed session. Thanks everybody.

Excuse

me. No, no. I was waiting want to make sure that Rachel's here Mr. Millhouse please

Yes, we have one item to report out of closed session in the closed session the council authorized The city's intervention and the burned versus rule litigation Thank you. And with that we're adjourned