Ojai City Council Special Meeting

Check one two. Thank you kind sir. Ready? Welcome everyone. Ready guys? Welcome to the Tuesday, June 30th special City Council meeting for the city of Ojai. Roll call please.

No, I'll move to approve it.

Second. Any objections? Wonderful. Okay we'll go on to our first item which is the First Amendment to Agreement with Ventura County Behavioral Health.

Thanks Mayor. We're going to wait a moment while we load the presentation. Give me a second please. Okay, very good. There it is. So tonight we're coming before you asking you to consider the renewal of the agreement with Ventura County Behavioral Health for a dedicated case manager for the City of Ojai serving OTT and the City of Ojai. Next slide please. So this allocation is borne half from the general fund and from the OTT account, and half from the ERF grant.

And as I mentioned, I did include it as part of the budget that you adopted earlier this month. Next slide please. So the Ventura County Behavioral Health Case Manager provides assistance to our most vulnerable population, those who are experiencing mental health issues. Taking advantage of a mental health service is a voluntary act and so the case manager often has to make multiple, multiple contacts with individuals to persuade them to accept the service. It's not something that we can requires somebody to enter into, so it's a matter of establishing a relationship or an understanding of what could be possible.

And these are county services but this is a dedicated person working in the city trying to connect our folks to county service both within and without of OTT. In this past year, there were 919 services to 81 individuals. I do not have a breakdown as to the address of these individuals as to whether they were in OTT or within the city itself and I don't have a breakdown of all the specific services. I am working with the County Health Department because I'm understanding that it's part of our contract If we designate somebody and it could be me to go through the appropriate HIPAA training, then I could be aware of the various types of services that these people were provided and so on and so forth. But at this time, we don't have somebody in that role.

Next slide? So just a little slide on the funding, and again it's 50-50 from the general fund and the ERF grant for a total of about $178,000. And it's included within the budget as I mentioned earlier. Next slide. These are the types of services that are available but it's certainly not limited to this. If you've been around OTT or around town, you may have seen April Munoz who is our case manager.

Very dedicated. It's a very difficult job. It is one where she is not only working here out of OTT, she does have an office here in Kent Hall provide for her so that she can meet with clients, but she also is embedded with the Sheriff's Department and the Chief and his team often bring her along to calls because that was one of the reasons why we contracted for a dedicated resource.

The chief would probably be one of the first people to tell you Our law enforcement folks are excellent, they're highly trained. Behavioral health intervention isn't always their number one skill set that they have not to mention they're also in uniform as they should be but sometimes that's the wrong person when you're vulnerable and you're looking to get assistance and when I'm finished with this I'd like to have the chief talk a little bit about his involvement with this program and what he sees about Next slide, please.

So as I was indicating it's a coordinated approach this case manager is embedded with the Sheriff's Department they also work directly with us here at OTT they also work with our help of Ojai Case Managers. Our help of Ojai Case Managers are not behavioral health specialists They are primarily trying to get folks signed up for social services and, you know, make sure that all their daily living type things are being addressed. Food, shelter, banking, personal sanitation, those types of things.

Again they so this person is kind of a key component providing that individual that is trained to work in this area. Next slide? So what I like to tell people is this is basically an additional tool in the toolkit. Because, you know using county services is voluntary we can't compel people to do it but you know in time with enough exposure and with the right person and I do really feel that we do have the right case manager here She often can be successful. It might be the 15th or the 50th time that she's talked to somebody about accepting services, but you know sometimes that moment is right and and the person is willing and You know when that moment is right? She will often drive that person down to get the services herself And again, this is really our most vulnerable population.

It's harder – I see a difference just because I get the calls for people sleeping on sidewalks or harassing folks in Libbey Park or whatever it is and it's nice for me knowing that it's not just a call to the chief, it often can be a call to April, hey there's a person that I've been seeing around town They're not, you know this is often what I tell her. I don't think this person is causing a problem but I can tell this person could probably use some help and usually when I call she asks for a description oh that's blah blah blah yes I know I've been you know trying to work with this person for a while and I haven't given up so anyway next slide please Before we take it to council questions. I did want to just take a brief moment chief Can you talk about your experience with the case manager from the Tura County Behavioral Health?

Just take a few minutes, give you my perspective on the public safety side of things. Since coming to Ojai I've had the opportunity to see firsthand the positive impact April's had on this community throughout my time in law enforcement it's as the city manager spoke to we respond to crisis were very good at solving problems mitigating risk in the moment but it's kind of that long-term follow through that we don't really have the capability or the training In law enforcement rights, success is not always measured in arrests or citations or even taking a police report. Sometimes it's the silent calls that we never go to and that's really where April shines and these positions shine, right?

It's about kind of creating that relationship by getting people connected to services so if and when they go in crisis again, we don't have to show back up. I'll give you a great example. Yesterday there was a family disturbance. A schizophrenic son attacked his dad with a kitchen knife Luckily, the outcome was good. We solved it in a moment, made the arrest. The court process will play out depending on whatever happens in court but April is a tool that I can refer so that person will for sure get referred and April for sure will follow up with that person if and when they get out of custody.

And that's how we measure these successes. A lot of times you're going to be very silent. We're never gonna know about it and I won't know about it as a chief and I shouldn't know about because of privacy laws But I stay in constant contact with April, oftentimes weekly. And I'll tell you this month for example she's had six successful cases. I'm reaching out to people getting them connected with services through insurance even their private insurance or state insurance whatever it may be but they're actually going to behavioral health and going to get treatment so I count those as wins because that's probably the call my folks will not have to go to in a violent confrontation and potentially in someone's life or my deputies get hurt God forbid You know, and I call that a win.

That's really like it's a facet of public safety. It says the city manager spoke to it really is another tool in our toolbox. It gives us more options right? Because we're not experts in mental health field. And I was looking at law enforcement. It really is a team sport. It's all of us, the community, it's lots of partners and more so ever as you know later stages my career now things have evolved and we see you know society there's it's rough times right now, right? Mental health is a big deal trying to get people the help they need And we don't have all the answers in law enforcement. In this position, the Intensive Behavioral Health Coordinator, it's phenomenal. It just truly gives us another option to reach to and I feel confident especially with April.

She's Johnny on the spot. She'll take my phone call any hour anytime of day and we have a phenomenal working relationship. It's a trusted partner for me. Like I said, as I mentioned, I don't see every success. But some of the greatest successes happen quietly and they may never become public stories but that doesn't make them any less meaningful. Some of the most important work in public safety is preventing the next crisis and not simply responding to it.

And for my professional opinion, this position is invaluable. I recommend that it gets approved if I had the say so to speak. It's a phenomenal position and I can't speak enough about it and it gives me confidence, gives my deputies confidence and I completely endorse it and I think it should be maintained in my opinion.

Thank you, Chief. That's all I have. Turning over to council questions.

Questions? And I assume you'll take questions as well. Yeah, absolutely. Yes. Any questions for staff?

And I'm going to kind of go through some, I've spent a lot of time with this. Um, and I need to go through some things and I want you know, to be corrected if I'm wrong. But my understanding is that the service that we're talking about is a county obligation. It is not the city's obligation to provide this but the County is absolutely obligated by this service The issue comes up because the way the law is written, you know, the county doesn't necessarily have the person dedicated to be Johnny on the spot. To provide that service exactly when it's needed.

But, but the county still is obligated. So I'm having some problem one with the size of the contract because you know we're talking about April I'm sure she's wonderful And I could see the argument that we could pay her salary and then I would want her time to be dedicated to, you know, City of Ojai issues and City of Ojai residents. But what we're paying is quite a bit more than salary of an ISC person.

And I know that there'd be an argument, well you always have these administrative costs attached with a position but we're not obligated to pay the administrative costs. This is a thing that we're doing in order to assure that we have somebody who's available when the crisis happens So I, I heard the comment about we have you know a space available for April.

Is that like her regular spot where she works on?

Yes she has two offices. She has one down I think it's in Ventura but this is where by bringing up some room here in Kent Hall and it's not fancy we just gave her a desk he brought in County She's able to meet with clients here in a private space. She also comes with a county vehicle that does also add to the cost and I just, I think the one thing you said, I'm not correcting you because you're right The county does provide these types of services, the city does not. However as you pointed out without this contract there is no one dedicated to OHI. So what I experienced when I first started having to manage OTT and really get involved with the mental health challenges in town we would call You know, unless somebody was actively stabbing somebody and then it would be a deputy who would show up.

We couldn't get somebody here and you really what I found over time was having the boots on the ground, somebody that could make the regular contacts with all these folks. That's how the relationship starts.

So my concern is that we can find, so with respect to say a vehicle. The county would still be obligated to have somebody come and respond with the vehicle. What we're paying for is an immediate response. And so I don't see that additional expense being ours. I see it being the county's and I'd love to be able to say, you know, to the county, this is your obligation and you're not serving our valley the way you should be.

I'm not gonna argue that. What I wanna argue is that we need to work out a better contract with the county in terms of it recognizing So the way government services work in the state, county, city role, the state mandates programs and it's mandated this mental health program. And then it's delegated and funded the counties to provide the service. And there is no provision that says each city has to do this I understand the advantage that we could have, but what I'm...

You know, I guess my questions are related primarily to the contract and that would be the exhibit because it goes kind of there. To me there's a disconnect with the purpose and Because the contract talks about it not being crisis, kind of puts limitations on what's being provided that I'm understanding. That's exactly why we're hiring somebody is that they're providing those services and I think the contract, you know, the general contract in the recitals is good and it's strong but you get down to the description And you know, I've got some problems with how we're spelling out what it is that we're acquiring. from the county that's over and above their normal services.

If I

might support that just in this sense, this is the conversation we had a year ago if I'm remembering it correctly. I'm asking you Mr. Harvey that if I recall correctly we were approached by the county With a problem and an opportunity. And we decided to spend the money to try to alleviate the problem, which they did not feel while obliged that they could fulfill the obligation. That's on my memory. I would agree with that. Yeah. So we're having the same it's the same problem.

So I guess if I heard you right, Mr. Whitman, you were suggesting if we were to decide not to support this The likelihood of them stepping up is not high. We would have to live with the

problem. My expectation would be that the county would step up, but they would not be as timely and responsive as if we hire and reserve our Individual

person so I was I was complaining stepping up with responding but in other words the time

It's a timing issue and I'm not saying I'm objecting to paying that

I hear them.

I mean, I'm I I'm interested in the idea that we're gonna pay April's salary, but I want her to give us all of her time. I want her to be in Ojai all the time and she's doing that?

Yeah, she is dedicated to Ojai. So that's true. But your other points, I hear you. Wanting the county to contribute more, right?

Let me just, a couple other questions, yeah.

Yeah, so what would it be? Would it be an option for us to hire her outright and have her working for the city instead of having someone like her? Like would it be possible for us to...

No.

Okay.

Because I say I jumped in quickly with no because I don't have anybody on staff who's qualified to be her supervisor. She's within the behavioral health family and it's you know just exactly who you think people with PhDs you know specialists Yeah, it's Dr. So-and-so and Dr. So-and-so and Dr. so-and so we don't have anybody like that

And I thought about that same issue But you know my conclusion is that supervision Would have to come from the county but that's part of their service that they're mandated by the state to provide All we're paying for is that speed of response factor. The rest of it should be assumed by the county because it is part of their mandate.

And they were clear last time, they are not trying to shirk that mandate but they are trying to be honest about the capability. How does APRIL work with Help of Ojai, if you could describe that a little? Sure.

So Help of Ojai along with our OTT manager, it's a constant thing. We're just constantly coming together to figure out what type of services our residents need and how we're going to provide them. And it's a division of duties. If it's something like, well so-and-so doesn't have their SSI benefits set up correctly and they need somebody to troubleshoot this with them and that's a help of the law.

So-and-so is having issues with getting their MediCal meal deliveries, that's a help of the law. Um, if it's something related to substance abuse, something related to PTSD, something related to some type of trauma, that's an April issue. If it's something related to the actual encampment itself, our good neighbor agreement, um, adhering to local laws, that's a OTT manager issue. But often when we meet basically every other week and we have to go through the folks and talk about The challenges and it's not always very clear April you need to help with this. Okay, you know Whitney can you do this? It's just it's kind of a fluid thing, but that's kind of the division of labor thinking And he's some say he the chief is pretty involved in this.

Yeah, too So, you know, I both him

can I can ask you chief? Um You may not have this experience or it's not a parallel experience Working in other places where you had the county position from the county, not somebody dedicated. Have you had that experience where you didn't have the level of service and what did you have to do in response?

Yeah absolutely I think so the county offers a couple services right there. The crisis team is one of them we're talking about we respond to the crisis sometimes the crisis team will come out they're 24-7 they will come out typically nonviolent calls. We can refer to them in the moment But the value with someone working here is truly that connection because these folks who are service resistant or generating lots of calls for service, it's going to take multiple times.

And they're already distrusting of government naturally a lot of them right? They come out through the system So they're very apprehensive to get help. So it really is that connection, it's a special person I can reach out for them time and time again. And it's that one breakthrough. And again, I know we go back, it's hard to put a metric on that. But those breakthroughs are huge because I look at it as a law enforcement officer but a private citizen. And maybe that's that call we don't have to go to or that parent who doesn't get stabbed.

And my deputies don't have to possibly shoot them and protect themselves. And I look at it, it's kind of the investment. It's the whole philosophy of community policing. You're wrapping, it's holistic approach is what it gets down to. It really is and for us quite frankly we just don't have the resource in the county to answer your question kind of bring a full circle It's slow, yeah, because they're very overworked. So we're very blessed to have a dedicated person up here and I think the forward thinking a year ago in approving this, it just speaks volumes to the character of the community in my opinion.

I'm just curious, so you know on the weekends in after six o'clock like if somebody was in a crisis what is the general time for the crisis team because I know they serve all of Ventura County and us being up here. I'm sure it's quite a lot of time that passes when they're in desperate need

It is, and it's challenging. And I'll be very honest they don't come out to every call. Our policy we call them now and notify them every single time. And part of that is it's helping, I don't want to say justify but they need more staffing as well. Obviously mental health we all know is a very serious thing. It's very prevalent right now. And it has been for probably a decade.

And I've seen that cultural, that change and just calls for service and everything else most calls we go to anecdotally, I would say 90% have some mental health component for sure. And most of our uses of forces there's a mental health component with that. So typically we'd go out, kind of answer your question. If they're available sometimes they're very quick. Sometimes it's an hour and sometimes it'll just tell us straight up hey we don't have enough people right now we're busy or sometimes they're solo on the weekends and they're only able to take desk calls so we'll give them all the information to have. They'll follow-up and that's something they would probably reach out like to April and hey follow up on Monday to this call and oftentimes we just handle it.

We handle and take them to the hospital take their mental health ourselves

Because that's another thing I was wondering with the hospital being we only have one now with mental health facilities. Like how many times then, I know like the one you just said yesterday so there was an issue so of course they were arrested but then how many has there been times when they were in need of help and should go to the hospital but there is no beds for them? So what do you do in that instance?

So let's say they get arrested, we would take them to jail and book them. And then we'd fill out a psychiatric needs form at the jail. They would do a mental health evaluation depending on how they answer those questions or they were assessed. The jail staff may take them to mental health or take them to the hospital upon release. For us, we take them down to VCMC. Our contract is the closest hospital, we take them there.

If they're not violent, we release them to the hospital staff and then they, the doctors medical staff will do the assessment there. But if they feel like they need a bed, then they'll make the phone calls and a lot of times it's out-of-county oftentimes yeah

So do you know in that case, like if they're taken out of county, because I know that happens. And I know because I had a brother that had mental health issues. So when they're taken out of the county then when they do their 5150 or whatever, they're going to be there. Then does somebody come and bring them back to Ventura County? Or they just let him wander the streets wherever

That's a great question and I don't have that answer. And that kind of goes back to my, I believe trying to fix the problem before it becomes a crisis. And that's, I think, the real value in April.

In my opinion- So if I could jump in on that really quick? What we do see is the arrest takes place and there's some time spent in jail but very small amount of jail time. Jails are completely at capacity and most of them are released and they always come back here because that's where they live. And so that's the other part is we just absolutely pick up where we left off. Oh, so-and-so has been released. We know we get the report. OK, let's go back to work.

Did you have a question, Leslie?

Yeah, I did. So what I'm understanding basically is, is that the county provides crisis support interventions when they are able to depending on availability and that's what they are assuming their mandate is and that's what they provide whether or not that's what the state expects the county to provide That is what they provide. What they don't provide and don't, I mean we can talk to them about this but they don't provide the ongoing on you know everyday kind of ongoing support that is really what will keep people from going back into crisis and that is what this contract is for

is to provide that. I would agree with that statement. That's not correct. That day-to-day stuff Doing case management for somebody, that's absolutely the county's obligation. Well that might be. Excuse me,

we're not having discussions. That was my question. That was the answer during discussion. I think that we can have that discussion about what we believe the county's obligation is. We can have that discussion about what their written obligation is. We can also have the discussion as to what the county actually provides. And we can look at this realistically and decide that we want to take a principled approach, if the county's not providing that which they want, which we believe they should therefore we're not going to supplement or we can look at it and say that our city has a certain need and we are going to provide that.

It is not unusual in any circumstance for there to be unfunded mandates. That is a standard. Try to stay

with a question, though.

Okay, sorry. So we can discuss that is

my

answer? I think you

laid it out. Yeah. So questions, yeah. Yeah, I just thought of something else. So with them building the new facility over there by McDonald's, that's going to help incarcerated people. I'm assuming people with mental health issues as well and all of that. So would this position service those people as well when that facility is built?

No. This is for the way we structured this. She works in OTT. Sometimes you know, okay. There's somebody that was in Ojai and then there we find them over in Miners Oak But we know that they were in are we gonna take care of it? Yes because they're probably gonna come back into Ojai because that's where they're staying but that is what the contract provides.

Also, that's a year out anyway Does April respond

to Miners Oaks and Miramani Only when it's an OTT person

or

well,

no she's not only serving OTT. It's also it's OTT and city right So

but this is county I'm talking about County Unincorporated. Is she making? mental health calls sometimes

this call sometimes if the person you know because we end up knowing a lot of these folks and we a lot of times This is somebody who's been in Libby person Ben, over in this area. Now we're aware because it's a county service that the same person is now over here causing a problem and so there are times when she's brought over there to help with that but it's kind of- It's no different than the Sheriff Department you know we pay for a contract within city limits but does it bleed outside the borders at times? Absolutely. There's a call for service that starts here it ends over um you know there yeah they're not gonna stop they're gonna go fill it

Then I just thought of something else. So with her services, when somebody is in need of a service and they bill say like insurance or we've been told that there's so many people living in Tent Town that are elderly. So I'm assuming that they're on social security benefits. So when they go to receive a service, I'm sure they bill insurance. When they go down for service this county is getting something back?

Yeah, we're not getting any type of trickle-back rebate from insurance. I mean we can certainly ask that question. I do think that there are times when they do get reimbursed for something. I don't know exactly how long that takes or what the percentages are but you're right. Because

how many people if...I don't know what the numbers are at Tent Town? So how many of those, I don't need names or anything but I'm just curious. How many are on social security? How many are on complete disability and how many are on what is...I don't know what it's called when you don't have the services where the state pays?

Right.

Medi-Cal?

Yeah so I I don' have a breakdown but every single person this is part of what now we're blurring into a little bit of what Help of Ojai does. Help of Ojai tries to make sure that everybody's covered by Something so either you're on SSI, you're on disability. You're on Medi-Cal You're covered we all of our folks in there have one of

them But there's no reimbursement

for that

For what April does. There could be reimbursement when they arrive at a service facility, it could be paid for through insurance or Medi-Cal.

I know about this. Any more questions? I have one public comment. Bill Miley please. Thank you sir.

My main concern is the city's source of money. I fully support providing social service support to temporarily housed homeless folks, plus those city folks who are homeless or at risk. And buying it from the County Behavioral Health is good. They're connected, they're part of the system. Regarding city residency, there may be folks seemingly living within the city but with residency history in the greater Ojai Valley.

Those folks are really the responsibility in my opinion of county government We should have a contract for building accounting for their service, because they're really not city residents. Also, I questioned the appropriateness of taking monies from the Cabin State Grant to pay for daily support services when we reduced capital moneys for the cabin village construction by eliminating important features from the construction specification.

That was not good. I said that, yeah. We should now plan for continued fiscal support for behavioral health services excluding state money grant use unallocated reserve. Their services likely will be needed for at least a few years coming years next year and the year after and so on And here's what I think is a key thing that are going to go on the wall. Behavioral health intervention in our city, I believe their services can keep our atmosphere in our city calmer. Nobody's yelling down the street. The tourists don't have to experience that we have a calmer and caring city Also, they helped prevent the crisis from occurring and they catched it early and referred for help.

Put a bandaid on it rather than cutting them and lopping off the limb. Thank you.

Thank you sir.

Anybody online Mr. Montgomery?

Mayor no raised hands on Zoom.

I guess moving to discussion then, one question Mr. Harvey would be something like to express what I'm hearing from my colleagues is the interest in actually the service where we're all happy with that but where we are concerned about this extra cost would be pressing them a little to say We get it and if we have to step up somewhere, we possibly are up for that but this is a big, it's a lot to pay.

And so do you think, I guess it's a question how would you feel about asking? Let me word it differently. Do you think there's some movement there on their side that we can press for?

I always think it's worth a conversation and discussion.

That's my main issue is that I think we can explore a fairer way of us compensating for and paying, so that we're paying primarily for that person to be here immediately. Not necessarily paying for like the day-to-day routine stuff. That I just think the contract should reflect more

than that. Is it possible like for instance, for us just to decide to start billing the county? I mean, how does that kind of work? It's like here is your bill and we find in Prop 1 which was passed in 2024 that this says such and such. That is a-

You know what I think if I could just jump on it. It could be a

discussion but also-

The opportunity is probably between the supervisor's office and the CAO's office. And the CAO, I think you guys are all aware she came from the behavioral health side of the house. So Dr. Johnson and the supervisor would probably be the best people And maybe even Mike Pettit who's also an Ojai resident, the assistant CAO. Having a conversation with three of them saying all right here's what I heard from my council they like having this dedicated service they don't like having to pay so much.

Right and I think you know we can decide to be forceful on that yeah by saying you know by passing a resolution from the council that you know I mean, I don't know that billing them for it is the way to go. But I think it does convey a message.

Well, I think what we could say is like look, we're one of the few cities in the county that have seen a need here and have signed up for this service because it makes things better for our community but we don't necessarily think that's right. We just are trying to address a need and we'd like for you to help us with this and we're a little small city.

Well, I thought what Mr. Miley offered too was actually really interesting because Wanting to be focused on how does this go on in perpetuity and so on and to use the money in the immediate time? Yeah, it takes away from that not so Please no,

I was just gonna say and I thought his point was also mr. Miley. I thought your point was well taken that you know We are diverting money from OTT and long-term benefits around construction around resources That would serve You know A long-term health, mental health issue at OTT for instance. It could be having aromatherapy garden whatever it happens to be you know what I mean? And or refrigerator and I think we could ask legal staff to look at what Proposition 1 actually says and do we have any legal sort of You know, to say well you know what? Proposition 1 does actually say this. I just don't want to get into a long discussion with the county and the county comes back and says well so sorry but no.

If I may because the current city contract expires, I believe today. And so I do think that you know if assuming we don't want there to be some laps in services and the fact that the city is currently paying for the full-time equivalent position that Miss Munoz provides I guess my question to council would be, you know, would you be comfortable authorizing a shorter term instead of authorizing an amendment at this amount for the full year?

Authorizing a shorter duration amendment to extend the term. at some prorated amount for three months or something like that, that would give us time to have these discussions with the county. We were already as noted in the staff report already having some initial discussions with the county about the form of a particular amendment because the version they provided I had some legal concerns about it only did two things that it established the NTE for 26-27 And extended the term by one year but some of the other stuff and it didn't quite mesh with the original contract So so, you know I think we can have that discussion about scope and I just my only question is I know knowing that we have a contract That's going to expire today. And there would be no further Authorization to extend it if council doesn't provide that Is their direction to?

Thanks for that information Is three months the amount of time that would be needed or could it be less? So

we can cancel the contract on 30 days notice and so can they count. The way I read the contract, so you know, we can pick a timeframe that we think is reasonable to negotiate a new contract and if it doesn't work out We can cancel and or extend

So that's sort of what I was asking. I guess yeah, I need to be asking is I was thinking 30 days But that might be ambitious we said we extended 30 days And

then

but if you can't get it any time then that's me.