UnGovr Transcript
iHow this transcript is madeUnGovr transcribes the official recording with automated speech-to-text, separates speakers by voice, and matches voices to the seated roster. Names and attributions are AI estimates and may contain errors.Verify any quote yourself: click anywhere in the transcript and the official video jumps to that exact moment, so you can check any quote against the recording.Scheduled start 6:00 PM · clock-time estimates pending review
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Mayor, we're ready to start.
Okay, give me one second. Welcome everybody to the July 14th regular meeting of the Ojai City Council. Roll call please, Mr.
Roll call — called by Weston Montgomery
Show transcript
Thank you. Any changes to the agenda?
No.
Great,
I'll move to approve it.
Second that okay no objections wonderful we have two presentations first members of the Ventura County Fairs Junior Fair Board to present the 2026 Ventura County Fair announcement and poster please come up
Hello my name is Shayla Valena and I'm a 12th grader from Santa Paula. We are members of the Ventura County Junior Fair Board. The Junior Fair Board is an organization for high school students throughout Ventura County focused on youth leadership development and community engagement. During the fair, we put on classic games like watermelon eating and karaoke. We are here on behalf of the Ventura County Fair to present the official 2026 fair poster.
Over 300 young artists submitted their artwork for consideration for this year's Youth Poster Contest. We have seen a remarkable increase in submissions over the last few years and can attribute that to the elimination of any fee to enter the competition. The incredible artwork created by Ventura County youth never ceases to amaze us. Submissions were judged by a panel of community partners and fair team members, the winners are announced as... In third place, Simone Shapiro, a sixth grader from Simi Valley. In second place, Micah Sanchez, a 10th grader from Ventura And this year's winning poster was drawn by Annalise Cohen, a ninth grader from Camarillo.
We are excited to share that the grandstand concert lineup for the fair is July 29th, Bush. July 30, Marshmello. July 31st, Arshon. August 1st, Jake Owen. August 2nd, Herencia de Patrones Feat. Panda Magee and Panda Toro. August 3rd, Ashanti and Bow Wow. August 4th, Switchfoot and Hubshank. August 5th, Nate Smith. Three days of rodeo, August 7 through 9 and we will have special admissions days on Wednesday July 29th $5 before 5 p.m., Friday August 31st Youth Day Tuesday August 4th Senior and Persons with Disability Day Wednesday August 5 VCCU Member Day 6th Community Heroes Day, Friday 7th Food Share Day. We would also love to see you at the Junior Livestock Auction on August 5th I mean 7th where myself and Carson and hundreds of other Ventura youth exhibitors will be selling our livestock projects we hope to see you all at the fair!
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Thank you so much wonderful mayor would like to invite the council into the center of our horseshoe here where we will accept the poster for this year for the city Thank you.
Wonderful. And don't get too comfy because our next presentation is a proclamation honoring July as Parks and Recreation Month, and the Parks and Recreation Commission and the committee so just a few words. And it's really almost goes without saying the role that the parks and recreation plays in our community that it has a coherence that it brings people together its physical emotional mental, it sustains our natural resources protects our habitats And so we would like to proclaim that this council on behalf of the city hereby proclaimed this month of July Parks and Recreation Month in the city, and extend recognition and gratitude to the parks and rec department and the parks and rec commission for their dedication of service to the community.
And we have Christy here to receive it. Can we I think we also do we have a commissioner? Oh, perfect. Please come up. Come on. Thank you. I didn't see please come up. Yes. And one more picture guys if you're willing. Yeah, let's do it.
Thanks for
everything you do.
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I was at Sarzotti this afternoon, and it was incredibly hot. And it was wonderful to see people just sitting and sort of half snoozing in the shade. You know, probably they don't have cool places to go and they bike to the park and they just rest there. And it was a beautiful site, it was a beautiful park so I was much appreciative that it was there for our community.
Thank you. Yeah yeah okay wonderful. Thank you so much. Wow, that's fun. Is there any commission reports for tonight? None received Mayor. Okay then we'll move to the City Manager's report
Thanks Mayor. Just on the topic of trying to keep cool, I wanted to piggyback on what Councilmember Rule said. This room is open now as a cooling center. We're keeping it open from 830 to 5 but we will extend that if the weather does require that. We're kind of taking it one step at a time to see who's in here and who needs it but just so everyone is aware there was information in the newspaper. There has been a social media post so spread the word.
Then I just have a couple other items from the weekly update. I wanted to mention our Aquatics program continues to go Swimmingly, I just want to give you some numbers Let's see attendees June 28 33 July 5th 42 July 6 20 July 7 37 and July 8 39 so we're holding steady and our staffing levels have proven to be sufficient So thank you council for your support.
I also want to mention that we are moving forward through our federal lobbyists on a pathway to secure $25 million grant for storm drain funding, so this is going to be a process and will continue to keep you updated but it's now going through committee and things are looking very positive which would be great for us because we have a lot of storm drain infrastructure improvement need as you know.
And I think one more thing I want to mention Yes, I'm seeing at least a couple Public Safety Commission members in the audience our inaugural meeting is Monday August 3rd at 1 p.m so Yes it will yes and it will be in the historic council chamber just like all of our other commissions So come on down Thank you.
Thank you appreciate that We will move on to public comments.
Agenda Discussionitems moved / continued / pulled — click to expand
These are items not on the agenda, and I will start with Mr. Ron Salarzano. Thank you.
All right. Okay, well thank you so much members of council I am Ron Solorzano the regional librarian for the Ojai Valley and this is probably the last time i will stand in front of you before the closure of the Ojai Library. The library is going to be closing for renovations as of July 31st that'll be our last day open we'll close at 5 p.m that day The renovations that we're planning are going to be lasting, projected to last between six to eight months. So we'll be opening sometime in the spring of 2027 and we're gonna be looking at a whole bunch of new updates. We're gonna be having new flooring, new lighting and electrical, new paint shelving and furniture. We'r e gonna have a new hydration station replacing our old water fountain so a bottle filling station.
We re gonna have some electric fireplaces to take advantage of some of that ambiance from that beautiful building, and we're going to have nice new refurbished and ADA compliant front doors which were very very excited about. The renovation for anyone who isn't already aware was made possible largely in part by a bequest from the late Ann Crozier who had served as the Ojai Librarian from 1975-1997 one of our longest serving librarians here in the city While the Ojai Library is closed, the Miners Oaks library and the Oak View library are going to be two of our closest locations. Some of our staff are going to be at those locations helping serve some of the overflow folks who will be helping out there.
And while the library itself will be closed we're going to try to make sure that some of our most popular items, some of the things from our library of things, the leaf blowers, the sewing machines, the book club kits. We're gonna try to make sure that some of these are available to continue to circulate while our library is being worked on. As well, we're going to have the mobile library that currently comes out to visit the Ojai Community Farmers Market once a month. We're going to have them come out once a week to do story time and the details on when exactly that will be forthcoming.
Um, so that's the major news. Uh, the only other thing I'll plug here at the end is we've got a couple of weeks left in our summer reading program So if you still want to participate in either the adult or the youth program There is still time to do that You can reach out to us at the library or go on our website at library dot ventura county dot gov And that's all I have for you.
Thank you sir. I appreciate it larry steingold please
Good evening I'm not sure how we do this. Okay, uh, i'm not speaking as a candidate or i'm not speaking as public safety commissioner. I respect well, I don't know how to do this i'm doing the best I can I respectfully request that a council member sponsor a future agenda item titled discussion and possible action regarding the city council agenda publication timeline At present, agendas are released too late to meet our only local newspapers print deadline. This effectively creates a huge digital divide limiting participation for residents who do not rely on or have access to last-minute online notifications. Civic engagement should not depend on constant digital access we can't rely on Facebook or Nextdoor or the ability to monitor updates in real time The Council has the authority to direct the City Manager to change this.
By ensuring genders are published well in advance, the city could move beyond the minimum standard and demonstrate a stronger commitment to transparency and public participation. The Council inherited this tried-and-true well known political tactic to avoid political engagement with James Vega I believe it was Wednesday And the same city council pushed the public speaking back to the end of the meeting, and that thankfully didn't go through. Take this opportunity to change the agenda time. This change would help ensure that residents who do not use computers, social media or email should have a fair opportunity to stay informed and take part in their own governance. I ask that you formally sponsor this discussion and help establish the standard of good government that includes every member of the public.
Second
topic.
Cabrillo is going to be breaking ground now for up to 249 people, there is a acre lot almost an acre adjacent to them that would make a great park. There's gonna be supposedly up to Cabrillo what they said 75 kids if you want them running all over Bryant Circle And up and down Bryant and Fulton and everywhere else, make sure you don't have a place for them to go.
Okay? Because kids being kids they're going to be there and it would be nice to have a park. It's on the market today. Make them an offer. Tie it up. Have control. Make it subject to a discussion or vote whatever you want to do but get control of it so at least you can have the opportunity to say no That's all. And I'm sure the broker would be more than willing to take a flyer on it, maybe the owner too.
But that's it. Control it, discuss it, vote no, vote yes, come up with reasons, find a way to do it. Maybe they'll hold paper, who knows what they'll do? But we need a park there because that's going to be a huge population for the city and if you don't take care of it somebody else will and nobody is gonna like it. Thank you. Carol Smith, please.
Good evening Council, Mayor, staff. My name is Carol Smith I live at 23 Taormina Lane in the city of Ojai and I had the pleasure to be on the council for 12 years being elected three times. I want to talk to you tonight to encourage the public to run for office to run for City Council seats or mayor seats running is the same We have, let me tell you what benefits you have as city council that the general public may not realize. But it adds a lot to the sweet package of being on the City Council. Number one, the salary is not great $12,000 I agree but the benefits are fabulous. You get a terrific healthcare benefits, you know, platinum level. You name it, you get terrific eye care benefits, eyegams, glasses. You get, believe it or not, dental benefits!
Last time I looked the package of benefits for City Council and this is many years ago cost the city $21,000 For every council member, is that still the case or is it more than that? It's probably more. But anyway, that's not the point. The point is that add that up with the $12,000 in salary and add that up to the number of hours a week you work if you are a diligent hard-working council member And that's not bad compensation.
It comes out to about $33,000 a year for I would estimate a 29-hour a month job and how did I figure that? Two meetings of a month or meeting four hours for the meeting each that's eight and then another eight for preparation reading the packet talking to constituents etc maybe you have another meeting That's two hours, let's say a special meeting because it's one topic. So that's another two hours. Then you attend and just kind of watch city commission meetings once or twice a month and then you bring back a report to the council.
You also attend a county commission meeting maybe Ventura County Transportation Committee or whatever and that you have to drive to but you get reimbursed for your driving I added up these totals, and that's what came to 29 hours a month. So honestly, I think that we need to let the people running know that the package that a city council gets is not as bad as they think. It's darn good. Now if you work, if you're self-employed or have your own business and you've been paying $20,000 a year or more for your healthcare benefit, you can drop those
Thank you, I appreciate that. We do want people to run. Clay Creasy please.
Mayor and City Council, I'm thrilled to hear what a great compensation package it is. I don't believe the 29 hours for like maybe 29 hours per week Okay, but but you know if you're not making anything at all then that's still pretty good. Yeah anyhow couple points number one Very recently, the Budget Committee was informed or updated with regard to the timing for various financial reports. The two big financial reports that this city does annually are for the California State Comptroller what they call the Financial Transaction Report and then one that we're
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all familiar with, the Audited Financial Statement that our accountants put together. The bad news is that both of those are going to be much later this year than they have in prior years. According to the Finance Director, she's expecting the California Financial Transaction Report to be done by the end of this month which will make it 181 days late. And according to the state statistics, only 2% of the cities are that late. So we're kind of not in a good spot there so hopefully that'll get better. With regard to the audited financial statements, the city manager updated the committee that he expected that not to be done until sometime in October And last year it was done in May, and so October is a pretty big delay compared to what we've had in the past.
I will say parenthetically the school district who we all know is challenged on various levels somehow they have a magic wand and they got their financials done in December of last year. In fact as second year in a row they got it done in December. So something's working over there at Matilija. Anyhow, the reason I'm bringing this up is I did volunteer to help Brenda with in some way that I might be able to with talking to the audit firm.
No, you're good. I was trying to ask Carol not to speak because we
can't hear
well.
That's okay. Thank you. Anyhow, so I did volunteer. It's a question how much help I would be. I have done many, many audits over the years. I've worked with auditors. I could potentially accelerate a few things or understand where some blocks are. I'm not heard back from Brenda in the public saying, Brenda wherever you are if you want me to help I've got time. I won't get paid that minimum wage but at least I might be able to help. Thank you.
Good evening Mayor and Council. Tonight's not a night for politics, this morning I think you might have all awoken to the news of the ice raids in our valley that one of our community members was taken for Miner's Oaks at least one Perhaps you saw the reporting in the Ojai Valley News where there's a video of a store clerk at the hardware store. He was too scared to leave his store seeing an ICE raid happening right outside.
You might have seen another video that VC Defensa put out in Ventura of a monitor being stopped in the freeway exit ramp by an ICE officer who parked blocking the way, then exited their vehicle, walked towards that monitor who was reversing and then sprayed at the car battering that monitor with their pepper spray. And then waving the monitor forward, I suppose towards the ramp that was blocked by that ICE officer's vehicle.
These injustices, these crimes in our community are not acceptable. They shouldn't be tolerable to this council or to any of our community members. They shouldn't be tolerable to our chief or to our sheriff. I don't know what the answer is but I do know that we need to work to try and find one So I want to invite everybody To our meeting of the Ojai Valley Democratic Club this Sunday from 430 to 630 so that we can discuss what can be done in this valley whether you're a Democrat or not Whether you're part of our club or not, whether you believed in any of our other resolutions or not.
I think there's something that we can do and I'd like to figure it out and And so I hope that you'll work with me and that anybody in the community who cares about this issue will work with us to find a solution.
Thank you. Yes?
Yeah, I just wanted to mention that I think it is going to be the first town hall that we're having as part of our goals will involve exactly this question what is happening what can happen with ICE and with enforcement. We're gonna have the chief, we're gonna have the sheriff, potentially I would like to have the DA as well to find out more deeply about what laws there are.
Anyway that is August 22nd as I am pulling this date out of my brain hoping it is the correct one but the city is aware of this, It is an important issue that the community needs to discuss. We need to get clarification. It ebbs and it flows. This is just another example, and I think it's a community-wide discussion that we need to have. It has been agendized for a town hall. So I will invite everyone to come.
The correction is August 26th. Thank you
so much.
So it's the 26th and it will be a community discussion on just this issue, and we will be asking as well for questions that you would like to have discussed. So perhaps I will come to your meeting on Sunday and get a sense of what the community is talking about right now. Thank you.
I appreciate that. Thank you so much. And then one more of Sudip Monte Polly route, please Yes
Thank You members and staff and community members I'm here to share Oh, my name is Sudeep Motupelli Rao. Thank you. I'm here for two things and two reminders to the citizens of Ojai. One is an insurance workshop, insurance for wildfire prepared homes. And I have extra flyers in the back for anyone that would like that. This is, of course, funded by the residents and also approved by the city council so This is an important insurance workshop, insurance for wildfire-prepared homes. So it's not like the traditional insurance companies that have just stepped back and said we are not going to insure you. This is actually insurance companies that are saying that we want to assess what kind of Changes and risk mitigations that you've done and we want to give you a premium on your discount So these these this is the new world of insurance.
So we are actually asking them come Prepare to speak to our residents about and this is going to be facilitated by the Agora Foundation Thank You Andy The date is Wednesday, August 5th from 3 to 5 p.m., and the panelists are Tom Pratt from D-Loss, the insurance company, Andrew Engler, CEO of Rock Rose Risk, representatives from Mercury Insurance and Farmers Insurance, Our executive director for the Ojai Valley Fire Safe Council, Christopher Dantzsch is also there. So we are bringing some new opportunities for residents to ensure their homes and be prepared so this is a good workshop. The next one is On August 17th and 18th, it's a two-day workshop for those who'd like to become familiar about everything about home hardening and home ignition zone, fire escaping your yard.
So it's once again free. This two day workshop is also held at the Ojai Valley Women's Club I don't know if I mentioned, and I apologize for the insurance workshop. The insurance panel is going to be held Wednesday August 5th 3 to 5 p.m at the St. Thomas Aquinas Church at 185 St. Thomas Drive so I apologize. The two-day workshop is going to be held at the Ojai Valley Women's Club And the sign up information is here. We will also have it on social media But I thank you for to the City Council and also the residents of Citizens of Ojai for supporting this so please come sign up. Thank you very much. Thank you
Mayor we've had no raised hands during this. Okay. Thank
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you, and that's the last card wonderful We will move on to the consent calendar Does anybody want to pull anything out of consent?
I'll move approval. Yes,
yes no I was just making sure everybody was good okay a motion in a second are we sure? Okay all
Roll-call vote Passed 3–0 motion in a second are we sure? Okay all right roll call please. Roll call. · 3 under review
Show transcript
Well done, agenda report people. Good job, thank you. Okay so we'll move on to the first discussion item that is number nine on the agenda. Approval of resolution adopting the 2026 City of Ojai City Hall Campus Landscape Master Plan.
Yes thank you Mayor and I think I'd like to call Kathy Nolan forward. Kathy we're going to give a presentation I believe so let's cue that up. There she is. We'll start with the presentation. Council questions afterwards. I'm happy to answer any questions as well, thank you. You all set Kathy?
I think so.
OK, very
good. First of all, I want to Kathy Nolan here representing the Ojai Valley Green Coalition and the Ojai Valley Green Coalition actually produced this master plan. But I wanted to thank City Council, the staff, all the community members in the valley who participated in us putting this document together for the support and providing pertinent information. So here we start Calling it an ecological hub in the heart of Ojai and this is the Ojai City Hall campus landscape master plan And I just wanted to point out the photo was during one of our site tours obviously in the winter.
And what I've done tonight is, well first of all I'm hoping you had a chance to read the 101 page document I didn't even print it out tonight for myself because it was too many pages. And so, um, I'm going to be sharing as I go along but don't have it in front of me except for the preliminary cost analysis which I thought somebody might ask me on a number but it's so small hopefully can read it.
So anyway, so yeah let's get started. And so we started off here with imagine paths and trails to access nature children's nature based play areas and programs with local education. Nature inspired offerings including talks workshops classes and more revitalized estate and demonstration gardens creek side habitat and other open spaces preservation of a wild urban wild land Excuse me, I can't even read my last word there. I think it says threshold, thank you.
And rehabilitation of a historic landmark building and that would be the what's often known as the carriage house or the Hobson barn but basically that was a lot of the input that we received generally from the community and what kind of drove this project We started with an executive summary. I'm not going to read the entire thing, but I wanted to point out that we had key goals and we wanted to align with the city's goals, the city's policy goals. And we met seven of nine of those in addition to the goals of the Ojai Valley Green Coalition And then if you look to the right under the photo, which was one of our workshops that we held. We have the master plan goals and objectives which included valuable resources, community activity, park management, which we think is vital to the longevity of the project, and of course ongoing stewardship.
We also looked at future benefits, like why would you want to do this? And basically there are a lot of benefits but it becomes a guide for the next 15 to 25 years if it becomes adopted. And it's a master plan, so it's the big idea. It's the big vision and there's more work that needs to be done but it can be broken up into projects and it's something that could potentially guide the city not only for approving a project or bringing a project folder but how much is it going to cost? What are all the ramifications?
Oh lovely, thank you so much. I was going oh what if they asked me something and I don't have it in front of me? I was gonna say I'll have to get back to you which I might have to do too but so anyway risk mitigation cost efficiency and then also community cohesion and sustainability and then regulatory clarity and consistency I mentioned this when I started, but a big part of this project was the outreach. And we're not going to read through all of this, but it's just a sample from the document. We started off in 2022 by receiving a community service grant that the city offered at the time they no longer offer that and I actually met with James Vague, the City Manager at the time and we talked about this And interestingly enough, and I'm just going to throw this out there.
We looked at the value of start to finish what would the estimated cost be if you hired a consulting firm to do this project? And it was somewhere between $280,000 and $380,00. So I wanted to say we bring some value because we did the entire project for just about 100,000 and a little over 100,000. We think we gave you a good deal, but it was a labor of love and commitment from us. It's a gift. We wanted to mention that.
But in our outreach, we reached out to community members including our Chumash elder Matthew Vestuto. Of course all of the staff, the council members were possible. We took many of you on a private tour of the property and then we invited the public in We did a series of workshops, not only with that community service grant but even when we got the contract to do the master plan.
And at the end of 2024, we continued to do workshops. We had online surveys, we did site tours and then outside of our contract because we're so committed, we did volunteer days along with some of our partners like PAX Environmental and The Crew To do maintenance, keep things as fire safe as possible and to educate the public. So basically we did gathered all this information collected the information tallied it and then you know that was the drive for the project The emergent themes generally were to keep the campus, essentially not to overbuild it but keep it exciting as an educational resource and to restore the historic gardens. The demonstration gardens and that would be like a nature park.
We would consider maintenance and expansion of the Middle Stewart Canyon Creek restoration project and a natural sanctuary in place for workshops events and gatherings for all ages including children And so that was our drive and you can see a couple of photos of our workshop, our open house we did on the left. Then one of our site tours in front of the Courage House or the Copson Barn.
I have come to you in the past with a concept plan and a lot of other plans, which we included in this final document so you would have it for the record. But this last score ran, I would say like the last three or four months, we actually started putting everything together what we would call like a master plan package. Starting with the, here's one of the plans. This is a historic landmark elements plan. I did end up giving tours. I met privately with Historic Preservation Commission commissioners, presented to them at the commission, got feedback and of course when the planning commission got feedback and there was definitely a desire to the best of our ability Thank you very much.
But the entire site is landmarked, including vaguely some of the historic elements which of course include I think I've got it on the next slide but the carriage house or the Hobson barn. Of course the city hall building, the tennis courts which are now the pickleball courts and then there's an arbor our picnic area which is actually number 17. There's an old badminton court remnants of a miniature golf course And even some old historic, a sidewalk and a wedding arbor.
So those are all identified. And so the considerations that we had were, you know, the valuable resources. Once again, the community activity park management and stewardship for the entire site. I have a lot of photos in here just because I thought the photos were so beautiful and really depict the community interest and the beauty of the site. And you may not remember this, but when I was here probably in October and in January and presented we identified what we call kind of four sectors. And up at the upper left of that plan or map is the Discovery Corner.
That's where the Carriage House or the Hobson Barn is located. But we were looking at that concentrating and being an area for kids where that structure if down the road it's you know, we can use it. We're not sure yet could be a living museum for children. And a small little amphitheater for reading stories and playing music, pollinator garden and a place to do outdoor classes.
On the bottom left is the big circle and that's the restoration area. And as you all well know we, the restoration project took place I think it started I believe 2019 but went to 2024 although we're still doing volunteer weeding and planting in that area. But we're looking at that area can be expanded The area up on the hill to the west could certainly have a trail system, a bridge to cross the creek which we know is not an easy thing to do because you have to go through regulatory agencies but it's doable.
And then also replanting with and extend the native planting and of course the ongoing maintenance. And then up on the upper right, the historic gardens and that's part of the original estate. I actually talked to Historic Preservation Commissioners. I went to the museum and then I thoroughly went through those photos the best that I could and I was able to identify some plant material that's here now from the original estate even before they retrofitted it. So we have that listed in the document So we did our best to do that and then to kind of figure out what was there in the past. And it's changed over the years, but there are some things that could actually be rehabilitated or I don't know if I want to use the word restored but close to being restored.
And then on the bottom right is the workshop hub and then that's the area where the present Demonstration garden is and that would be a new entry into the site off of Ventura Avenue with some a little bit but a small amount of additional parking including an ADA van space and Potentially up to two to three parking spaces with a new entry. And then what we're proposing is a A new structure that we're calling the Garden House, of course it could be renamed but it seemed appropriate. We've got Little House and Oak Tree House so the Garden House felt appropriate. But that would be an area basically where it could be rented out for a wedding or other events. It could be rented out to local organizations for workshops and labs and films and what have you.
So it's a gathering place We did include a small commercial kitchen and a restroom, and then kind of a covered shade area and terracing. So it would be adequate. And then within that area we also have a small orchard and community garden, and then a whole series of native plants including firescaping. So once again becomes an educational... actually the whole park becomes educational Because we're also looking at doing, or proposed rather not only directional but educational signage throughout.
So okay and then this is our actual what I would call the master plan sheet there's many several sheets involved but this one plays off the concept drawing that we had shared earlier And it just kind of gives you the general layout of all the items and they're all listed there. And I pretty much went over them when I just showed you the previous slide. Another real key element, and I did meet with the Community Development Director and we spoke about this.
Presently this property falls under the Libbey Park Master Plan. The master plan not only includes what we know as Libbey Park but it includes some of the I wanted to share with you a little bit about what we did here. So this is the public works property or a portion of it and then this city hall campus and it was called area G, the section here. And so what we did here as we compared the recommendations that was done in 1993 There's a lot of overlap. And some of it is because it's just obvious, like where do you put the paths? Pretty much in the same place. They had recommended to do a parking lot where the tennis court is so basically now it's a pickleball court which is OK and that's what we said.
And then basically I think the drive or the thing that we really looked at was we brought the 1993 plan forward into present time They didn't have anything about a restoration. They did have a bridge to cross the creek, but now we're really expanding on native plants, climate-appropriate plants, firescaping and expanding in maintaining the canyon and the creek.
All right, and then back to the, this is a little bit more on the historic structures. And the picture on the left is the old badminton court. And so throughout the document we went out and did thorough site analysis many times as we walked the site. So for instance at the badminton court it's a great space but the concrete is broken and so we made a recommendation that you either resurface or replace that but generally keep it as it is So all the stonework, unless there's stone that's fallen and needs to get minorly repaired but not to rebuild it. And so once again it becomes a new usable space because it's safe and more functional.
Here is the carriage house just for fun and I wanted to say, I don't know if anyone has walked back there recently But the fence on the left has come down that was part of tent town. And actually there were a lot more weeds there just a little bit ago but the crew actually went in and did a cleanup I think they're finishing it up so you can actually see that wonderful carriage house.
And here's the back of City Hall and you can see the historic steps, the plinths with the planters those are all from the original state. Yeah pretty cool. Of course those would stay And then just a look, this is just looking to the south. I am odd even just looking at the picture, but every time I walk there and I walk down the trail where the restoration is, I turn around. Can't see City Hall. I don't see a single building and I just go oh my gosh! I'm in downtown and it's absolutely gorgeous.
And I do want to say since the restoration, the water is still running down there and it is amazing to see how much the plant material has grown in and of course the wildlife count has increased. And then the other thing we looked at was circulation. So this is a circulation plan through the site, ideally we wanted to make the main pass ADA accessible I think that's really important for somebody in a wheelchair or sight impaired, or even a mom with a stroller or a person with a walker could actually go through the site.
But what we did is we color-coded—I'm not going to go through each one but on the right it's color coded whether it's a primary access and what the materials would be And then you see there's a P, a big yellow circle with a P. Those are what we call primary entry or exit points where people could come in and there's signage and generally parking nearby. And then secondary entrances and we have like bike parking etc.
I'm going to go back because I don't have it on here and I didn't include the side but we also do like a parking analysis. Because other than those few spaces on Ventura we're not proposing new parking so we did we did account, we did observations, we came out at different days of the week you know how could this work? And it may need the hours may need to get regulated if there was an event because of that and the timing but we did make note of that. So we just wanted to let you know because I know that's always An issue in Ojai. And then we get to maintenance and it's like, why maintenance? We're just presenting a master plan now but the maintenance is the key to longevity of any especially outdoor landscape project and this shows the trail that goes down into the restoration area But we bring it in and we reference the earth-friendly management policy that the city adopted.
And what could happen here, and who could do it so to speak? But just how important it is when you're considering a project, even though I didn't include long term maintenance in our preliminary cost analysis which we'll get to, I want to emphasize that it's vital The other thing is programming. I mentioned earlier that, you know, the community and staff and the commissions weighed in amongst other people. And generally it was a nature-based park where the people want classes, they want education on this site, nature based play for children.
What I would call it more like a passive park. So we're not saying we're putting in soccer fields, this is the place where somebody could just they could go and do yoga by themselves if they wanted to or the Parks and Rec department could have a yoga class there. But I have a list of things of some different possibilities our partners of course the City of Ojai Parks and Rec Department, the local non-profits and organizations that community partners how it could work, Community Stewardship Partnership And then of course at the City of Ojai could actually rent different areas for different events. So there's different opportunities for different types of weddings, for instance. So it's kind of fun and cool that there is a lot of choice.
So okay, here we are. We've done the master plan and hopefully we'll see what happens at the end of my presentation but the next step is there's more design work that needs to be done and I just wanted to point it out that this isn't the end all The next step would be design development where you actually put together, the city would have to do a request for proposals like an architect, landscape architects, civil engineers, structural engineer, arborists and other consultants. But it's where you take this master plan which we hope we've provided enough really good solid basic information to take it to the next level but they take it to the next step and then of course after that is construction documents Which you would need to go out to bid and to install.
Let's see, what did I do? I'm just looking to make sure I didn't miss something. I'm kind of doing the overview and then next steps Once again, I just mentioned about the next step would be design development And of course we're hoping the city Has some interest in doing that and if you want to talk to us about any of it Of course we could but we know it would go out for an RFI I'm just looking real quick here, give me a second. We have things about further visualization, cost estimating and budgeting, contractor collaboration, excuse me.
And then of course the decisions made for design development would go into construction documents ultimately which I mentioned earlier. We did do a preliminary cost analysis. We didn't break it up into phases but We did the entire site. I we spoke with local consultants, contractors some items we gave an allowance to and if you did the whole thing right now potentially because it's preliminary cost analysis this is for budgeting purposes it's a little over six million yeah Now we have a bathroom included at the Garden House and I forgot to mention earlier, but we have another public restroom that we located.
So what we did do... Let me see, did I include that slide? No, I didn't. Sorry maybe it was back here. Well, I'll just say it. Wait, let me go back. I'm trying to think where I did it. Maybe it was here. But what we did do was, we looked at and they're just recommendations of how the city wanted to move forward and you wanted to break it off into phasing or how would we do it? Or what makes the most sense? And we provided some examples in the document. And for instance sometimes you have to put infrastructure in early on if you know you wanna do something maybe it's not gonna happen for five years But it makes sense to do it early on because you're going to be tearing up the site and doing grading, and what have you. So we mentioned a little bit of that as well.
But there are ways to phase it. And I also wanted to point out for example with the restoration area, there are grants available to do some of that work as well, as well as grants for probably some other areas in the park. So just for example and then. I showed this slide before, but we just updated a little bit. I had this in my last presentation. It's basically a sample timeline and so we've just completed on the left the community and stakeholder engagement and of course tonight we're presenting the master plan, the final document. So next steps include like engineering reports and like a phase one tree removal. So some of the items like the carriage house or the Hobson barn and say Thank you. Thank you.
And then in the next phase, and of course this is just a recommendation. Construction documents, the RFP for contractors, project management, and then ideally construction starts June 2027 but we did want to just include it as a timeline just to give you an idea of what could happen And then I think this is my closing slide and this is one of those beautiful slides that I was mentioning earlier where you You look, you know out to the south and it's kind of like where am I? It's aft. It's absolutely gorgeous and I think that was one of the drivers the beauty of the site and the love of the side and The Green Coalition wanting to in the willingness to work with the community and commit to the city To help you meet your goals as well.
And That was our driver and If you have any questions, I'm happy to answer. Yeah,
0:54 – 1:0026 turns
go ahead. I just have a few things that constituents have wrote in and asked you. One question was they said originally they thought that you were going to have the Children's Memorial and they said by looking through the packet they don't see that located in here?
The Children's Memorial is actually existing and if you're familiar with where the picnic pergola is on the site Actually just right out here. The Children's Memorial is just to the north of that and that's where the boxwood hedging is and there's a plinth with the sign there so we're not proposing to remove it or anything. It remains and it's there.
Perfect
thank you for that.
And then the other issue was with the amphitheater neighbors were concerned with the noise
Right. And I think I've realized this later, like amphitheater sounds huge or you know like the Hollywood Bowl or something right? And we're talking about something probably no bigger than the interior circumference of this dais that would basically be for Non-acoustical events like story reading for children, you know If anything somebody's playing a guitar and then I will say to the park hours which we mentioned in the document The park would close at dusk unless You know kind of dawn to dusk unless the city was having a special event or somebody had a you know permit to Have a party or have a meeting in the evening.
So The sound would not Potentially be an issue. I mean we were trying to avoid that and I appreciate the question
And then one more thing with parking they said, you know, I don't know correct me if this is incorrect information It's passed on to me. They said there's like three spaces and only one is ADA Is that correct?
Yes,
or if I could ask the follow-on question no, yes because it I think it's the right question so with the construction and the let's say that beginning in June 2027 The assumption is that the parking lot over here is available for it. Where Tent Town is now?
Oh, yes,
absolutely. And I
should have mentioned that too when I
because I didn't put
the parking slide up there and I probably shouldn't
have included
it.
But that's contingent to the rest of
the work. Exactly. That parking lot stays...I think there was maybe one parking space that potentially you know once again this is just in the master plan stage that maybe would be lost to make an entrance going The carriage house, but that's still to be determined because we were trying to not lose any parking. And we did realize you know we weren't building a parking lot.
Yeah so and as I mentioned earlier we mentioned about potentially if you had a group of kids you know maybe limited to certain days of the week certain hours certain times or even event you only could do it on a Saturday when staff is in here because you would have more parking for instance So all of that needs to be considered, but we realized and know that we didn't add a lot of parking.
And then one last thing and I'll pass it on with some of the buildings you said that they've just you know they haven't been kept and I understand that. My first thought is Rick from HPC he's so smart and with construction and all of that have you reached out to see if he could give his input?
I certainly did. As a matter of fact, I did two side tours for within the Brown Act by the way with the commission and then several of them I actually met privately out here and I spoke with Rick. Well, I think I did a private one with him as well and he concluded too and I even took the community development director. He and I walked out there If you go inside, which we got to do thanks to Brian Aikens who's I think behind me.
He went and got the key from the Public Works Department numerous times and we were able to let people go in and take a look but if you go in there you can see that structurally it needs to be looked at and Rick agreed too, I think pretty much the whole commission did But they would like to see that it get repurposed. And you would maintain the integrity of the design, of course on the outside per the Department of Interior guidelines and then of course on the inside you could make some changes but it needs to be looked at in addition and we have this in the report there are the slope right behind the building. You can tell over the years it's been eroded And so a structural engineer should look at that as well. Does it need to be reinforced or maybe it's just fencing you know just to keep people back right from the edge in that location but all considerations
yeah. Thank you very much, Kathy.
Yeah, thank you. Those are all great. And I guess I want to ask what I think you said to make sure I'm understanding it correctly. What you're asking for tonight is that we receive and accept the master plan generally. We understand there's so many decisions to make along the way but you're taking this step To then go to that design phase where you're now mapping out some projects to for that design part two Tell me I
would I would just say tonight. We're asking you to adopt the master plan Yes, and then we would want future direction not in tonight's meeting You could you could ask for items, you know to come back but yes, we wouldn't be allowed Looking to dive into.
Understood, I should clarify what I was saying. Yeah. I just mean to say the proposal is to accept this plan period. That's right. And then the next phase is this design development phase not to be discussed tonight. Right
and yeah and I want to just mention it just to be clear if I wasn't earlier so the Libbey Park Master Plan stays in place where the only part we're talking about upgrading or replacing would just be area G which happens to be the City Hall campus.
Understood. Thank you, I appreciate that. Other questions? Wow okay what an incredible packet but let me go to public comments. I have Brian Akins please but Kathy please stay close by. Okay thank you
1:00 – 1:0711 turns
Hello everybody, Brian Akins. I guess multiple hats but somewhere in the years that's taken place, I became the liaison to the Green Coalition from the Historic Preservation Commission. I first started looking at this property about a decade ago when they heard they were going to put buildings on it so I grabbed my camera and my phone whatever it was and hiked the hills and took lots of pictures just in case.
I want to compliment Kathy and Lauren and so many others that have helped this report be put together. It is amazing in detail, amazing in the answers that are there. I was there at the early meetings where they had big maps and lots of I did like that Kathy mentioned the word repurpose. We're always looking at landmarks for what they bring to us, but also how can they be better used by the community. And there were so many great ideas when you're talking about the horse barn and that slope that goes off into the river.
Rick Bisacci, by the way, told us that his scout house used to be on that property and it disappeared with the floods along with about 40 feet of dirt just in case you're wondering. But truly, truly work. When I was going through the report there were 100 something pages that report will be printed out it will be combined and we'll go to the museum to go into their library and also be recorded digitally so that we have that because this is a document that people are gonna come back and look at decades from now.
Truly, truly a blessing. The tours were fun. Lots of fun taking people around with Kathy and with Lauren with others and giving them some insight into how key and how important that property is. But again, I ask that for your full support on this. It has my wholehearted support and again has been touched as you heard by many of the people within the Historic Preservation in looking at that. So again thank you very much for your support on that and a big thanks to Kathy Lauren and the many others that put this together.
Thank you. Thank you Mr. Higgins. Leonard Clay please?
Good evening, everyone. Leonard Claife. I live in the city of Ojai. I urge you to vote yes on this proposal. The amount of work that was done is astonishing. The amount of public input was substantial. The report is I read legal documents all day long, and this is as clear and concise and complete as you could—far more than anyone could expect. So bravo to the Green Coalition and their friends and all the work that was done in putting this together, and it is a vision for the City of Ojai. So vote yes please.
Thank you sir. And then I have Sudip Ghen.
Thank you, council members. I am here to support the resolution to adopt the 2026 City of Ojai City Hall campus landscape master plan having attended a tour of the space. Thank you, Kathy and the amazing team at the Ojai Valley Green Coalition and also and also Brian. It was really informative. I believe that we are really utilizing this space in a good way, and this sets the vision for that Having seen the Huntington Gardens and library, and also the Santa Barbara Botanical Gardens.
Those are treasures that visionary citizens preserve for posterity, and so this is one way for us to also take good care of our lands. And with wonderful people who are using their talents and skills and their intelligence, they've crafted a beautiful master plan, so I urge you to support it. Thank you. Thank you. I'm saying this both as a citizen of Ojai but also as a member of the Ojai Valley Fire Safe Council. Because they're really taking into account and it's, we work with them very closely and we support their monthly meetings. So thank you very much. Thank you.
Anybody online?
Yes mayor. We have two raised hands. Okay. First we'll have Bill followed by Renee. Thank you Mr. Miley. You may unmute.
Can you hear me?
Yes.
The comprehensive plan has been developed with multiple opportunities for community input and review I started promoting this area for nature over 10 years ago. I support the plan with one key correction, one land-based suggestion, one key ADA recommendation and a negative opinion. On page three there's a paragraph on site history that says it was deeded to the city in 1917. That was wrong.
Hopson gave it to the city in 1972. On a site diagram, it shows the southern most portion of the property hilltop south of Stewart Creek as number 28, a viewpoint with a bench and number 32, a restoration trail. I have been on the site several times years ago and find it has great potential, as one can almost see 360 degrees from the hill. Excellent for nighttime stargazing.
It needs more than a bench with a view. For parking there appears to be three spaces on South Ventura Street. No disagreement with protecting nature But there's only three and one is ADA. I use ADA. Anyway, the parking lot next to the city will be really good. And likely the ones on Ventura Avenue will be taken over by pickleball players. The pickleball court is not a tennis court and on this side is a disgrace personally They generate noise personally, strictly for their own selfish benefit.
This is designed as a passive part. Pickleball is not a passive sport. Thank you.
Thank you Mr. Malley. Next we'll have Renee. Renee, you may unmute.
1:08 – 1:164 turns
Good evening, everybody. And this is Renee Roth. Oh hi! I guess I am going to start by taking exception to what Bill Miley just said and usually he and I agree on a lot of things but what he just said about the Pickleball Courts was factually incorrect They're not a disgrace, and I do play pickleball in those courts occasionally. And really it's more for senior citizens and nobody is down there on Saturday and Sunday. I don't know if you've been down there to watch the number of participants but nobody goes down there, and in the summertime it's too hot. You can't really enjoy playing on the courts in the summertime so it's used for maybe an hour-and-a-half in the morning That's it.
So I really hope that someday we can adjust how we look at things factually and base our comments on factual statements because i think this is really important moving forward Okay now to my real comments that I wanted to say. Thank you Kathy, thank you Lauren, thank you for your team who put together this beautiful amazing document. I am so over Overwhelmed by what's included in there. You've got the historic stuff, you've got all the parks and the Libbey Park play on it. There's so much amazing...you've got water catchment, you've done it Kathy! You've got a lot of information and a lot of data. It's beautiful, it's really well done.
The only thing I want to say is that since you started this project, of course 10 years ago the McRae property right next door is now part of the city's inventory of property. It's right adjacent to this and I think at some point the highest and best use of that property might include having to do with maintenance of this property and having a site where you can do, maybe have a live-in person who's a maintenance person who is assigned to live on that property. I think that would be a beautiful coalescing of public uses for that property. The last thing i want to say, I really really hope—I've been hearing about it for 10 years The Carriage House has a need for a seismic and structural engineer to evaluate the property. Would you please do that now?
That will impact the future designs and bids, and anything else you do with that property. Please do that! The City Manager can do that And just get it done. Thank you very much.
On to discussion. I'm overwhelmed by the document too, it's incredible as a master plan is the best one I've ever seen personally but
yeah. Yeah I just wanted to say thank you and I want to just let you know that as a member of the council I support this master plan 100% and we'll vote yes on this The plan exists because of you, the Green Coalition and your outreach to the community through surveys and open houses and workshops and countless conversations held in person and online and among yourselves and among the community.
You have shown up and you have allowed the community to show up. And I think that is just interwoven and integrated into this master plan. You walked the property, you walked the property with us. You gave the community the opportunity to speak up and to walk the property as well. And you didn't just answer questions, you shaped the questions that we should be asking through World Cafe and with Betsy Van Light, who you know we need to acknowledge obviously.
And the plan that stands before us tonight is really a document that was handed down from above really. That's the way I look at it. And to you guys, it's been your steady partnership that's the backbone of this effort. Your expertise really unparalleled in ecological restoration, you know the advocacy for the native habitat and the Middle Stewart Canyon Creek Corridor. And your willingness to sit through meeting after meeting to get the details right and to reach out to the Planning Commission and Historic Preservation Commission individually and as a group and present to everyone to bring the community along it is just a prime example of a best practice in my mind.
And I think that you have done exactly what we hoped that you would do, and for me it's exceeded all expectations. You have given us a master plan that we can work with, that we can use. And I agree with Brian that it belongs in a museum for the future for people to look at. So and I just you know in closing, I just want to thank you very much and to let you know that we are mindful that the work doesn't end with this vote. The work begins with this vote and I am in for that work with you and hope that you guys will be in for that work. One thing that we do know, these kinds of projects that are successful start with a non-profit organization like yours that is embedded in the project from the beginning And so I hope that that is something this this council also finds.
So I want to thank you Thank the community it has been Since I got on the council for four years of working through this and it is it is in my mind a wonder to behold So, thank you
Yeah, I'll just piggyback ditto to everything that Councilmember Rule said. But you know, I think back about those to those first workshops that you had the World Cafes and sitting in those tables creating with art everybody drawing their visions for what this could be There was so much heart and so much intention that went into every step of this process, and it was driven by the community. By people of all ages, all backgrounds and experiences coming together and sitting in this room And that kind of visioning I think is a model for what government can be.
So the master plan, it blew me away. I found myself reading and taking deep breaths and thinking wow you've thought of everything And just all the intentionality that went into it, including just acknowledging the history and working with the HPC and their involvement. And just thinking about what is going to work not just in the next five years but that this is going to be something that we can pass on for generations to come And so I want to thank you for all of your tireless efforts, the entire Green Coalition and for all of the hard work that you put into this. And like you said before, the volunteer hours.
As well as, you know the hours where there was that were covered underneath the fund. It's just and yeah I think about Betsy Van Light's legacy too and how much a part of this project You know that will be so it's really I mean, I hope we do something to acknowledge her through some kind of Bench or something like that, you know a tree Because her Fingerprints are all over this design. So thank you
1:16 – 1:2724 turns
I agree that it's a very impressive document and I did have the pleasure of touring early on with Betsy van light had a very enjoyable afternoon with her. I am A much more of a less is more type of person. And I have a great concern when I see a six million dollar price tag and what things are we not going to do for the community? I mean, those are things that we have to talk about. I know that we're not actually deciding to spend anything.
Um, but you know the parts that I support and have always supported especially the restoration of the creek. And the idea of making the property more accessible to somebody who wants to take a walk In nature, it's a beautiful campus and I support the idea of removing hazards. But, you know I can't. I also support the idea of restoring something similar to the restoration garden that we used to enjoy but it gives me great pause when we talk about Building additional buildings when we haven't really kind of taken an inventory of all the buildings that are public access buildings and figured out where things fit in.
Not sure exactly where I'm going to go on this vote, because I do think it's a great document and voting doesn't mean we're spending money. But I'm concerned that we're creating a plan to spend money. Anything you want to add
other than OK? Yeah, I in conclusion. When I looked at this plan, I thought, oh, it's not often that you get a chance to say here is going to be another one of the great things about Ojai, the greatest things and I see this thinking when people name their top 10 things, this is now going to be in their top ten list of Ojai. I firmly believe that. So I would make the motion that we accept the master plan as presented. The last man's the landscape master plan has presented
And just to be clear, it would be a motion to approve the resolution.
Motion to approve the resolution. Thank you. Yes,
I'll second.
Thank you. Any more discussion? OK, roll call please.
Roll-call vote Passed 5–0 Motion to approve the resolution. Thank you. Yes, I'll second. Thank you. Any more discussion? OK, roll call
Show transcript
motion passes
thank you all well done way to go You're all welcome to stay, but you're also welcome to leave if you wish. Who have come for this? I'll give them one second. Okay
we'll move on to item 10 which is the County of Ventura Civil Grand Jury Report regarding Ojai Permanent Supportive Housing.
Mayor, the next two items will be led by the City Attorney.
All right, so the item tonight is number 10 related to the civil grand jury report provided by the County of Ventura Civil Grand Jury. The purpose of this item is to seek council direction for the city attorney to prepare a proposed response to the civil grand jury report.
We'll give them a little cheer moment here.
That would be brought back to the City Council in August, ideally no later than the August 11th meeting. We do have a special meeting on August 4th so if we have everything ready to go I may end up recommending that we try to tack that on for an initial discussion with a follow-on discussion At the August 11th meeting. As all of you know, on June 25th, the County of Ventura Civil Grand Jury released its report regarding the Permanent Supportive Housing Project. As part of their report they made certain findings related to the process that was used to select Dignity Moves to be the development manager for the project and the approval of the Development Management Agreement.
You know, as with all civil grand jury reports, you know the civil grand jury they perform a very important role in providing government oversight. But the way that the response is expected to be produced is they want a response and it's prescribed by the penal code Where for each of the findings, we either agree or we disagree in whole or in part. We provide explanations for anything that we had disagreed to and then they also would like us to provide a plan for how we will address or not any of the recommendations in their report so And in this report, the civil grand jury included a number of findings and they concluded 18 findings and six recommendations.
And you know again it would be our recommendation to the City Council that you provide direction for me in my office to work on a draft response that we would present back to the city council in an open session meeting Where we will go through each one of those responses, one by one. In order to determine whether there's Council consensus to accept those proposed responses or modify them and if the direction is to modify them then we'll bring those back at a later meeting.
If I could just add one item if that's okay? Sure. The intent would be you have two items in the end. You have the civil grand jury report and the city response, and then it would be our intent to publish both on the project landing page without any type of statement. Just have folks be able to read both and form their own opinions.
Questions? Yes please.
I do have a question. So essentially the process would be that your office, you or your office would respond to each of the 18 findings and then in some way also respond to the recommendations, the six recommendations and that would be the way we would respond?
Correct but with a caveat. So if you look at page 208 of your packet, which is page 15 of the grand jury's report, they specifically identify which findings they would like responses from the city on and for some of them they would like a response from the Ventura County Executive Officers so For findings, for basically the list of findings that are under either the City Council or city manager responses we would provide responses to those and the same with the recommendations. Got it thank you. And we would recommend sending a single consolidated report from the city instead of a report from the city manager and a report from the city council.
Right, okay great and so you would make those responses and then bring it back to the council for us to deliberate or ruminate.
And if at that time it's Council's desire we can go through every single one. If there are specific findings that you want to discuss we can kind of play that by ear depending on how Council feels about the proposed responses but You know, conceivably for some agencies when you get to that stage I mean we might go through every single one which can be painstaking but it's an important part of the process. Right and we will figure that out as well. Yeah
absolutely. And i just want to ask about in the spirit of your analysis you're going to be asking is it legally sound? Does it Does it fit with the ordinances as we have in place, or tell us about the process of how
you evaluate. So I will say the way that we will evaluate it is some of the findings that the civil grand jury has made are based on their analysis or understanding of the law. In full disclosure there may be some of those that our office disagrees with and if that's the case then that would be noted in the draft response. There are others that I can tell you sitting here today that I do agree with and so as far as the recommendations go, we'll talk a little bit more about that in the next item. But there are some things that I think the city can do to improve its procurement processes starting with updates to your purchasing ordinance. So we will address all of that in detail in the proposed response but I would be less than fully candid if I said we're going to probably agree with every single finding.
There will likely be findings that we think are a bit more nuanced than perhaps they perceived it to be.
So our options would be, if we didn't
approve this, Vote not to respond or we vote to assign somebody else other than your law firm to respond.
Yeah, there would be some other options I mean first of all the providing a response is an option it's not a legal requirement It is something that we would recommend because it demonstrates to the civil grand jury that we take their concerns seriously But
1:27 – 1:3516 turns
when I asked a question It was primarily because my thought is well, it seems really obvious Getting a draft from our attorneys about how we should respond is the first step. I just want to make sure
I'm not missing something. Yeah, that's correct but you could also assign staff to prepare a draft response as opposed to legal counsel. You know conceivably the City Council it would take some time for us to do that. We could sit down as a council and work through every single response. That is an option, but obviously it takes a lot of time. It would be a big commitment from the five of you and I think your time may be used more effectively if we provide you with something to consider and we talk through the legal analysis if there are questions as opposed to trying to do that on the fly in a session of the entire council.
I'm not saying that this is going to happen, but if we're presented with a proposed response and some of us like the response and some of us do not. Do we just go with the majority or do you provide like a dissenting position? Or is it just what the majority chooses
Ultimately we would go with the majority position because that's really what the penal code prescribes. It's you agree, so if we disagree in whole or in part I think it might be a bit more nuanced but generally the way this would be handled is we would look for a majority vote to say we agree with that response or not. And the reason for that is because it's a response from the council acting as a body.
Which is standard procedure, is that the council acts as a body and I suppose someone could say well I don't want my name on it but the City Council still approves or doesn't approve as a majority deliberative body That's what the DA told me. You know, when he gets stuff back
that would be correct and of course what we would try to do if it's fine to compromise you know response if the council is not entirely aligned I think I would want to find a response that all five of you can join in on but there's definitely the potential for
But that's why you're bringing back a draft. It will be reviewed and in other cities where I've been, the council has appointed subcommittees and done work that way just depends on how you want to do it but this is more expeditious.
Yeah yeah I agree I mean this is all hypothetical until we get the draft back. I did have one other question if I could. Do we expect that the County of Ventura as you mentioned is going to respond to the ones that are relevant to them?
I would expect they will. As a county body, they are a bit more answerable to the civil grand jury than we are would be my opinion but I would expect them to provide us with
that. I'm going to see the assistant CAO and maybe the CAO on Thursday of this week and I'm just going to ask Mike or Syvette if they're both there if they're gonna do that
Right. And yes, and it also specifically calls out the County of Ventura Community Development Division as well. But I mean that has nothing to do with us really. I just was curious if we can expect the county of Ventura to take this as seriously as we will or you know. I would expect them too.
More questions? Yeah, we'd
get a draft back in roughly 30 days or something like that.
My hope is that it will be less than that if we're talking about the first meeting in August. It'll be less than 30 days. I am taking time off next week so you won't get a version back probably until I've returned from my vacation but my hope would be You know if we can if we're if we were to schedule this for August 4th, for example We would include the draft response with the Agenda for that so it would be publicly available and we would certainly make sure that every member of council receives it.
Mm-hmm Okay, I have one public comment clay Creasy please I Have two comments
Okay City Council On this matter, I as you all probably know had a role to play in getting this matter adjudicated by the grand jury. When I worked at Target, I had a boss who told me the only mistake you ever make is the one you don't learn And I think we can have lots of debates as to whether procurement law number one or number two applied, or whether dignity move was really selected on day one, or day two, or day 100, or whenever.
But the key thing for us as a city is for us to learn from it. Last year we heard the City Manager tell you guys that the DMA required dignity moves to deliver this project for $9.5 million And if the bids came in over $9.5 million, Dignity Moves was going to lose money on this. Now we've heard the city attorney much more recently correct that and tell us that no, that's not the case which we all now know because this project doesn't have landscaping, it doesn't have a garden, it doesn' have gates, it doesn't have storage, yada yada, all of the things you had to throw out to bring it in at 9.5 million.
So back to the original issue of what did we learn from this? If we had a fair and competitive selection in day one, what are the chances that Dignity Moves would have somehow caused us to believe that they were going to cover cost overruns but not actually have it in the contract? Competitive fair processes produce both good bids and clarity on what the deal is.
We didn't have that because from day one Dignity Moves was in our hip pocket and there was practically You know, no question that they were going to do this. Now they were cited in the original application as the developer of the original project which was supposed to be done by January 15th 2025 on the parking lot of Kent Hall. Clearly that project changed very quickly it was no longer prefab units trucked in you know overnight for a couple hundred thousand dollars it was the grand thing that we've got now So for us to grandfather dignity moves in as the development company, when the project changed magnificently was a mistake. That's the mistake we need to learn from. Now how the response will come down is up you guys to figure out. But it is clearly the case that more transparency, more competitiveness early on is the lesson here.
And I don't know how much money we lost by virtue of not going that route but it's more than a little bit. I will say finally, I've looked back the last 12 years only twice has a grand jury cited a jurisdiction as having broken the law. Us and one other school district at one point in time for Brown Act. I
1:35 – 1:4012 turns
was a bit appalled by the suggestion that you would not respond to the grand jury's findings. It's the law and even though there is no consequence in not doing it, you should follow the law. It's something I try to teach my children. It's something that goes with good character and I can't imagine this council wouldn't do it so I think you should respond I don't think that you should employ Ms. Burgess to go through the findings one by one and justify what happened.
I think you should agree with all the findings because at first glance they appear to be true, and secondly because it's not worth the fee of the city attorney to try and nitpick and say why what you did might have been okay somehow You should accept the recommendations and you should work to improve the process going forward. This is an opportunity to learn.
Another thing you should do is congratulate or thank Mr. Creasy for blowing the whistle on this possible, well, malfeasance as far as the grand jury found and for helping you find a better way forward I think it's important to remember that good intentions require sound process and you should tell the grand jury we're committed to putting those processes in place.
Furthermore, the grand jury asked specifically for the city manager to respond to certain findings and certain recommendations within 60 days and you should instruct him to do so. You should look at the draft that he makes. Maybe you submit it, maybe you ask Ms. Burgess to change it, maybe you change it but you should want to know what he has to say for those recommendations and those findings and you should use that as part of your performance evaluation of him.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Anybody online? Yes Mayor we have one raised hand from Mr. Miley. Thank you. Mr. Miley you may proceed.
Can you hear me?
Yep
I read it all. Okay, the grand jury present presentation says the city was right. There's no competitive bid due to price requirement but was required to do so for qualification and competency of contractors. How can a city not want to have qualified and competent contractors? This past grant process was fast, congested, anxious and hopeful. Never to happen again, process-wise I hope.
As I read... Are you hearing me?
Yes.
As I read the grand jury conclusion it says in the future The city shall agree to follow the competitive bidding law requirements. It does not say the city has to re-bid this project. Of their six recommended recommendations, five have the ending phrase quotes in all cases moving forward end quotes And they detail four options for responding. Thus, the city likely in my opinion should select number two response option quote will be implemented in the future with a timeline end quotes.
Thanks.
Thank you. No more. Okay.
Well, in the questions I heard more or less the discussion around tasking the city attorney to have a first response that we could then come back and look at in detail. Did anybody want to add to that?
I just had a quick clarification. So Ben you said that you would take your responses and include them with the council's responses it wouldn't be two separate documents
What we're suggesting is having one document, right? And the suggestion before you—we can do whatever you want of course—is to have the city attorney draft the responses. If you want me specifically to write certain responses and then pass them to Bethany for review, that's fine. Whatever the council wants is fine.
1:40 – 1:5113 turns
So I just have a couple of quick comments. One is that, so the first time I read through the report, I think I sent a text to city manager and commented on the fact that I'd had numerous conversations with Bethany over the past several months about the idea of improving the City's procurement policies In a very general sense, not specific to this. So my comment to Ben was if they're asking us to improve our Processes, Bethany's already worked. My other impression and this one isn't as nice but I read through the report again this morning and It caused me a little bit of concern because what, you know, what struck me was that we were awarded the grant and then a 13 month period went on where the City Council had very little involvement.
And then we were presented in March With a report that says, you gotta approve this now because money has to be spent by June. And that just caused me to have a little bit of deja vu is maybe not the right but it seems like this happens fairly frequently. Renishu has sat fallow for a long time. And then we get a staff report that says, we need you to do this and we need you to do this now. And I'll kind of bootstrap what Mr.
Steingold said earlier which is that we really need more time As a city council to deliberate, it's important to us to conduct good deliberations. To have that time and it's also important for the community that they see stuff with sufficient time That they can ask questions. I mean, I'd love to have three or four business days where I can be asking questions about you know Both of staff and community members, and I really want to see us improve on that whole our ability to digest and receive, digest information. And at the same time give the community that much more time to receive and digest. Yeah, I agree.
It occurs to me, there's a thought that it's cross-discipline. So if you want to understand everything, if you want to learn everything, you study the Civil War. There's so many factors in the Civil War that can teach you about everything as a case study. I'm thinking that this, as a case study, if we want to go down that road, as a case study of the ways in which decisions are made, the amount of time.
You know, what's actually told to us. I mean there are so many things that we could really use this as an example to pull out of what worked but certainly what didn't work because I think that it embodies a lot of it. It embodies a lot of the dysfunction or the processes that aren't in place and dysfunction quite honestly So I'm not suggesting that we do that, although I'm suggesting that it is something I would like the Council to consider. That this be a case study on process improvement because it comes right down to at the highest level, I'm going to start with you, Mr. Chairman.
It might behoove us to deconstruct and to look at all facets around this. Departments, everything it would be a very good case study if the council was so inclined to pull it apart. I appreciate that.
Well to I mean to that point, I think it makes sense. I would be supportive of having the city attorney Come up with the findings like give us a report on the findings and also make some recommendations and And that could be the starting point for us analyzing the process. Knowing also that the processes we have in place now are very different than what we had in place when a lot of the movement for the ERF grant was taking place.
So I would actually make a motion to Have the city attorney come back, prepare a draft response to the report for further consideration for us at the future meeting.
Second
that. Are you clarifying it would be council and then separate? I would like to see that. Wait for it. What do you mean with responses to have it separate? And then maybe if we decide as a council that we can incorporate and come up with one, but I'm just curious to see what he's going to hold himself accountable for. I would
suggest waiting until we get the responses back.
But so in my in. So Mayor Pro Tem in my motion My thought would be that the city attorney and her team, the city manager, would include all of that background in the finding and that the staff report would have that as a point of discussion in the analysis of the findings. Is that correct? Would I be correct in saying that?
So what I will say is that some of the findings pertain or relate more to things that would have occurred at the staff level and some of them relate directly to decisions that might have been made by the City Council. What I think we would want to do is if we agree with the finding, the response is that we agree with the finding but if we disagree with the finding and we are providing an explanation I think what we would what I would do because I wasn't here when a lot of these acts took place is I will You know, I will talk with staff about you know What what occurred? What is your understanding of what occurred but I think we would condense that down into You know again a brief response for consideration by the council With one consolidated response.
So I don't I see it a little bit
differently and here's So they're asking us specific ones that they want us to respond to. They've spelled those out and then if you go down to the responses that are invited but not required, they spell out a response from the city manager and so I think we are going to get City Manager specific responses and then I would also say I think that any one of us or any employee of the city who's responding to important legal document would have advice of council. So, I think that To the extent Ben is gonna answer those, that he would work with Bethany or any other legal counsel that he wants to
get assistance from. I guess if I may Mr. Mayor you know some of these responses there may be a separate explanation that is reflective of you know council's position on the response and then additional information from the city manager. I'm not saying those two are mutually exclusive But it would be woven into a single response.
I just to me when you look at that if you look back on that page that we're referring to 208 the following Responses are required from the City Council and you see all the numbers and the numbers are identical The following responses are invited by the city manager So it isn't that there's a group that separated that city managers going to answer not that anybody was suggesting that but to say, I think the answer finally is coming from us and This body has to respond finally in the end, to say we agree or disagree.
So what I would imagine is that we would have the initial statement if you look on page 212 of the packet so that's the page that kind of shows what the responses, the form that the responses take So if it is a, if we agree with findings, we would have a simple statement at the beginning that says, you know, the City of Ojai City Council agrees with the findings numbered and we would list those. And that's all we say about the findings that we agree with for the findings that we disagree with.
You know, we then provide an explanation for why we disagree with the finding. And I think, again what I would recommend is that we would have the response from the City Council and if there's anything additional that the city manager would want to add based on advice of legal counsel that we would add that in the response. Don't know that there's value And having two separate responses because at the end of the day The city manager is not going to agree with findings that the City Council disagrees with or vice versa. He's going to Accept the findings of the City Council So if City Council says we agree with the finding I would not recommend to him that he disagree with the finding Because it's really we speak as one city Or one city government
so so what's Purpose of inviting the city manager to.
1:51 – 1:5818 turns
So I find it a bit unusual, I mean so here's what everyone has to know about the civil grand jury. This is a voluntary body that decides to come forward for this purpose they are overseen but the oversight is loose from The county it's from the courts there's usually a presiding officer that reviews their work It's been my experience that there's not a lot of It's a soft touch given to the report that is drafted. So if they're asking for something in general, that's usually what comes out. I've been involved in other civil grand jury reports. I've been the subject of one before but it's always been the city has asked to respond. I never seen it where they're separating somebody and if you look at- I was reminding myself some of these findings and observations.
I'm calling them observations but they list them as findings Some of these they're asking me to respond to specifically are for a time period when I wasn't here. So, you know, I'm going to have to talk to the city attorney about that because I was not present when the application was submitted. In fact, my start date I think was the 29th of January or something like that. It was after the application had been turned in so I'm gonna do my best to...
Carl Almeida was in charge of this project for some portion of
it. He was but you know also I know it was a chaotic time when this was going on from what I've heard. The report says that. You know reviewed from the tapes.
Yes, so I would just to sort of clarify. We understand what the civil grand jury is. We understand it's a soft touch. The question is not that. They are requesting that the city manager ask these, answer these questions. It's not, that's the question, not I wasn't here they got their facts wrong. The request and we understand who they are, we understand how they come about. We understand what their sort of findings are and we understand their lay people, we understand all of that.
But the question before us is, they have requested that the city manager answer these questions. And before this body is how do we plan to answer that? Do we say that we're going to combine them? We're not going to have a separate or we're going to have I mean, that's the question before us and
I understand. I was just trying to respond to the council members question and I just pointed out that it is a bit unusual to ask me to respond to something when I was not in office at the time that took place. I don't know that that is
understood.
If
I might respond to you, so I'm imagining we get a set of suggestions from the city attorney with the city manager here and this is the opportunity and I would like to take that to press, ask questions, clarify. And we can decide what we want to say and what do we want to learn from this. I love your idea of a case study too, so I guess I'm imagining this happening then?
Yeah, and I'm fine with that. But I think what I'm having trouble letting go of is that this is the perfect case study. This incorporates so much of how we function or dysfunction, and it is a perfect time for us to reflect back although, you know, we all may be leaving.
If I may, one recommendation perhaps is that you know again we draft the response. I mean I intend to draft a response for the City Council if the city manager agrees with that response there is no reason to have a separate response. then I think that there might be room for the city manager to provide additional input. But as with even the staff report for this item, while it's reflected as being submitted from the city manager and me, I drafted it, he made no edits to it because this is really a legal issue.
And and so I would you know, I well I would want to make sure the city manager has an opportunity to provide input My intention is that we will review these findings We will evaluate the legal the legal arguments in our understanding of the facts and we will Either recommend that we agree or we disagree. And again, we'll discuss all of that with you It's not if you know from my perspective The law is it's not always black-and-white but there's You know, there are some findings which are more legal in nature. There are some findings that are more conclusory in nature based on their review of the facts. So the responses will be a little bit different and they'll be tailored to that.
Ms. Lang? If I could just add one thing. So in our discussion of the recommendations, there's the case study because some of the recommendations include a reevaluation of policies and procedures. And so if we are going to learn from this then The discussion about how we move forward as a result of this will inherently include a dissection of the process and a reworking of it so that we have better processes moving forward.
I would like that. I, I agree with the idea that if we go through this process it is going to be a case
study
and you know my only other comment is that somebody mentioned this earlier I mean We don't know what's gonna happen. Perhaps that's cock about him and maybe there is a reason that the city manager would provide a separate response, and maybe there's not.
Yeah? I feel the same way. I think when you put it in these terms, the city manager is going to agree or disagree with what you say, or that's fine. I think that the place for understanding This whole process is the case study, but that only happens if you go deep. So if we're writing a four-line response to each finding, that is not deep enough to do any kind of case study. It may be a starting point, but to assume that these responses would be deep enough for us to actually get any kind of information around what didn't happen correctly, I think is it's a chance that doesn't happen.
It might just be a road map first and then two for further study. Yeah
yeah okay I'm fine with that
there's a motion on the table in a second
Roll-call vote Passed 4–1 motion, I understand it now is the recommendation language from recommendation number two. Correct. Thank you. Ready for roll call · 1 under review
Show transcript
1:59 – 2:067 turns
I just want to say that there's so much that the City Manager can, it only lives with him this process because and so that's why I think he is an integral part of this. Is that part of the process will be we were given these options not understanding how we got to them. And that's why I would say that it's really integral that the city manager is part of this case study process, not because I think he needs to respond to the grand jury in his own sentence or two. So I just want to be clear about that.
Thank you. We'll take a five minute break. Okay, I'm just trying to be multicultural okay? We're going to start, fellas. OK, we're moving on to number 11, municipal code revisions.
All right.
Thank you.
So as mentioned, this is also going to be delivered by the city attorney. Thank you, Ms. Burgess.
So the purpose of this item is to seek council direction to kind of set our office loose on making some updates or working with staff to make some updates to some of your code sections that we've identified issues with. And you will see first on the list is your public bidding procedures and also the city's purchasing ordinance. This is an area that, in my opinion it's ripe for review, it's ripe for updating. There are some provisions that are a bit unusual for general law cities that we would like to kind of clean up and propose some recommendations As the City Manager knows, this is also kind of in concert with other efforts that we are making to improve the city's purchasing practices including the rollout of new contracts earlier this year.
But we are also in the process with the City Manager's direction working on development of new contract solicitation templates to help ensure that we are following best practices when it comes to the city's procurement efforts. Other items on this list, some of them are here because we need to review and revise those provisions of the municipal code in order to bring it up-to-date with current state law. Some examples of that would be your accessory dwelling unit ordinance And the number eight on the list, the affordable housing incentives and density bonus sections of your code.
Those sections of state law have been updated pretty significantly in recent years and so we would need to bring the city's code into alignment with current state law. Some other things on the list that are kind of interesting and would be... So I guess I should note there will be a slightly different process depending on which ordinance we're talking about.
For the purchasing ordinance, that's one our office will take the lead on. There are going to be other ordinances on the list that may originate with staff and would then be sent to our office for review so the accessory dwelling unit is one of those. There are other ordinances on the list, such as adoption of objective design standards where a lot of the work may be done through a combination of staff and planning commission work. So for example there is already a planning commission ad hoc committee that's been created to help develop some recommendations for objective design standards Another item on the list that may fall into that same category would be The ordinance related to parking and loading standards. That may be another one to get the Planning Commission involved in You know, one of a couple of the other items are things just that you know as we've done work in the city over the last six months.
We've observed that there's some places where you know the code doesn't necessarily say exactly what I think staff and even some of your commissions believe that it says and it doesn't always do what people believe that it does, that the code does. And in some instances that ends up creating enforceability issues and so For those, I would probably put the signed standards and the code enforcement liens both into that category where we've observed that there are some provisions in the code that may not be legally enforceable. And we want to review those and bring back some recommendations to help ensure that the requirements you have are enforceable The last one I wanted to mention directly is the Historic Preservation Ordinance. I think this one would probably follow kind of a different process altogether, I think you know what I've observed and this is after listening to a handful of your Historic Preservation Commission meetings, working with staff some discussions that have occurred here at City Council That there may not be full alignment within even just the city family about what this ordinance does or what it should do.
And so, this is one where I think kind of much like the process you followed with the tree ordinance that it may make sense to begin that review process by workshopping it with the City Council getting input from City Council Bringing in and working with our commissioners on the Historic Preservation Commission, and ultimately coming up with something that maybe better reflects the council's intent and the commission's understanding of what their role is. So with all of that being said, there's a lot here and some of them are things that may take a few hours of work like the well permit ordinance that was included. I mean, that one was probably an hour of work You know, we don't necessarily feel the need to come to City Council and get prior authorization to do an hour of work But some of these may take more time And so you know before we just jump in headfirst and start working on revisions to the code I felt that it would be appropriate to bring this item to the council make sure we have your support to move forward on these We won't be working on them all in tandem, so I don't wanna give you a specific timeline by which we're gonna have everything on the list completed.
But I will say that the first priority is gonna be the purchasing ordinance and we will plan to have that back to the city council in order to meet the timeline for implementation that the grand jury has recommended in their report. So that would be much more near term. I guess with that, are there any questions about any of these? I
appreciate it. It's super clear and you have a starting place as you say right after item number 12 so thank you for that. I have one public comment. I have a public comment card that doesn't have a name. Okay come over.
2:06 – 2:119 turns
You gotta love ordinances. So set them loose with staff. Sounds great! Please remember that these are written by staff and the city attorney for the resident. They will apply to us, and not to staff because they don't live here unfortunately. It doesn't apply to the attorneys. They don't live here. It applies to us. We need an opportunity to review, provide input and argue changes prior to them getting to City Council where there will be discussion.
But at least you will have obtained stakeholder engagement and seen their suggestions. While described as administrative or housekeeping, I know ordinances need to be changed. Hundreds of years they build up, they need to get changed, purged, rewritten, straightened out, more efficient. Got it? Understand. However- Many of these are direct, real-world impacts on us. Property rights and the use of public space. Ordinances related to accessory dwelling units, encroachments into public ways, parking standards, code enforcement liens, purchasing are not merely technical correction. They are public policy directions. If encroachment permits were permitted willy nilly they would have gotten one for the freezer.
There are public policy decisions that shape how our community functions. When a comprehensive set of revisions is initiated through the city's office, it's inherently significant. These changes deserve the same level of transparency, deliberation and public engagement that we would expect for any other policy initiative of this scope. This avoids creating dictates without civic input. I'm particularly concerned that the current approach risks prioritizing administrative efficiency, making life easier for everybody else over public understanding participation and buy-in. The stakeholder in this process are not internal they are the residents property owners businesses who must comply and live under these rules We want, you want us to live under them?
We got to be part of the process. To strengthen both the process require plain language impact statements for each proposed code revision clearly identifying who is affected and how so and they don't have to be interpreted by multiple attorneys I really don't want to have to call my attorney to understand an ordinance shouldn't have to establishing a public facing Phase review process, including study sessions prior to formal adoption for high impact. Rate specific items, maybe they go to planning, maybe they go to public safety.
Code enforcement, direct staff to create a publicly accessible web page where draft ordinance language is posted. Red line, bold, what are the changes? Why are the changes delayed? Thank
you Mr. Stanko. That's the only comment card I had.
Nothing online, Mayor.
And I assume—I mean, I think I know the answer to this just to say any single one of these that would come forward would obviously be publicly voted on and okay. As you point out there are some workshop opportunities.
Everyone would have at least two hearings. I would expect that the more significant revisions Would come back for a concept or at least one concept review first You know some of them, you know might might be more than one concept On the
historic preservation that workshop Model sounds appropriate for something very large like that.
Yeah, I mean, I don't like on that one I don't even know what council's direction or appetite to make revisions would be I think what we need to do on that one is come back with a Presentation identifying here the concerns that we have and and get your input because I wouldn't sitting here today I wouldn' I wouldn't suggest that I know what the policy direction
So is everybody online? I didn't want to cut that off nobody on okay onto discussion. Thank you
Thank you. Thanks, the subject matter of each of these categories it's a little bit difficult to predict what's going to go into those changes so I would be interested in and I'm not, I'm concerned about a process that would have staff and the attorney's office work these proposals and then bring them to us without some degree of city council and community input. So I guess I'm interested in getting
2:11 – 2:1616 turns
Every one of these items that touches on Title 10 of your municipal code will have to go to the Planning Commission first. So it would not come to the City Council for consideration. Maybe we have a workshop or a work session, but it would not come to city council for a decision until after you have a recommendation of approval or not from your planning commission.
So an added thought to what you just brought up, Mr. Whitman. The first two that you suggest working on sounds perfectly correct and I think at that point when we have this kind of status check then priorities can be set or maybe one's added or we'll be able to do that queue
then? For example some of these are very minor changes for example the zoning clearance ordinance I know exactly what change I would recommend that helps create the clarification that ensures that staff has clear direction on when it's appropriate to use a zoning clearance. That's not going to be, you know, a significant effort to put that together. I've read through that. I know where I think it needs to go Some of them like the purchasing ordinance are gonna take more work because We need to make a lot of updates. Okay, the code provision there is pretty outdated and There's stuff that's missing That's just not in your code at all So
I do like this status check-in idea that
makes a lot
of sense
and we can we can do like a periodic you know, just Status reports City Council items
I like that. Any other thoughts? Wonderful, so how about this? What if we propose that the, so this is the motion but I wanna add what Mr. Whitman suggested. We, I'm trying to think of how to say it. We task the city attorney with the list of code revisions to come back to council with status reports about next steps. Something like that?
Yeah, and I guess I wanna... I didn't mention this but I meant to. If any of these... So let's take the purchase order ordinance or collection of ordinances is you've mentioned it's gonna take a lot of time I and you know, we have a fiscal impacts report which really doesn't. It tells generally there will be a physical impact but doesn't really tell us what it will be.
I think it would be good for anything that is going to take. For you to give us an estimate.
Yeah,
okay of you know so in that kind of status report thing we're talking about With time as I'm anticipating this is gonna be you know 20 hours That's important to know
And I will say for that first one, I would expect it will be you know depending on how much work is involved. It may be I would say 10 hours of legal time and and you know depending on revisioning it may be a little but I don't see that being you know it's not going to be 30 or 40 hours.
So then I would just modify yeah with time estimates so it's a time estimate.
Is
that clear?
Roll-call vote Passed 5–0
Show transcript
thank you. I loved seeing this one even on my notes. I said absolutely awesome great that we really appreciate that okay concept we're on number 12 concept review of contracted services
2:16 – 2:226 turns
Yes, thanks Mayor. This item is something we've talked about for some time and it's a comprehensive list of the primary contract services city uses to deliver service to the residents, the visitors, businesses in town. Ojai is a contract city under the Lakewood model, which was born in the 1950s after World War II as a way in which cities could more efficiently and effectively deliver services rather than providing every single service in-house. Primarily the Lakewood plan relied a lot on county services under contract, notably Sheriff, Building and Safety, and others. And from there it kind of evolved, in fact the cottage industry was born of companies that provide municipal services which wasn't always the case.
There's actually an association in California called the California Contract Cities Association to help contract cities and to steer that vision of effective and efficient delivery of services under contract. This council has talked a lot about potentially bringing contract services in-house, and that's a policy decision. And we've talked about that in onesie twosies if you will recently looking at cleaning contracts and other types things. And so what we tried to do with this list was just give a preliminary estimate of the service provided was one that we could in theory bring in house. And some of them are large efforts efforts like so for instance if we decided that we wanted to revert to our own municipal police department, well that would be a large effort clearly.
Could it be done? Absolutely! But that would be you know with some major consideration on behalf of this council What we're looking for tonight is your questions, your comments, your direction for those services that are being provided that you would like us to perform some analysis as to really what's involved with bringing it internally. What's the cost? What's the timeline?
What are the considerations that need to be made? What is the impact in this service delivery etc., etc.? ? There are some logical low-hanging fruit items, and one is one we've talked about a lot which is code enforcement. That contract is coming up for renewal soon. We would recommend that as part of that effort to bring that contract back, we bake into that a comparison of what it would look like if we were to bring that internally. There are others in that list too that you will see.
I want to thank Norma who put together this list. I want to thank all the department heads for working with her on this There are some notable and thank you there's a list if we need to refer to it, there are some notable emissions We don't have franchise agreements included in that. We don''t have Subscriptions, we don't have software services because those just quite obviously are things that were not going to probably take on but Anything's possible. We could provide refuse and recycling if you really wanted to, it would be enormous I wouldn't recommend it but we we could so with that I'd ask for your questions and direction thank you
yeah And I'm presuming thank you for this Big list and I like seeing that the contract renewals forthcoming to the City Council So I'll save the comments for discussion, but I do I like seeing that kind of variety of services especially Even things like help of Ojai that we the rental assistance program. That's interesting just to at least see that as
well and thank you for bringing it up because we really went back and forth on some of these and we We you know, we just we just felt that if it was a significant contract we would we would put it on there But some of them really aren't necessarily Municipal services and that would probably be one of them. Yeah, but in theory You could provide that if you had a housing department you you could potentially provide that and some cities do
Okay, any questions before I go to public comment okay, I have one card Larry Stangle, please I
Good evening. I wasn't going to say anything on contracted services, but in lieu of review of ordinances and things like that, review of contracts request for proposals so that they're so tailored that the focus is narrowed down to one contractor or two contractors or three for whatever benefit. And I think it's great that we contract out because hiring more employees creates a bigger family.
It creates bigger pension demands, which quite frankly now are because the CalPERS is at like 80%. I guess we don't have to put as much in but we need to fill those pensions because we're in deep with insurance and with payroll future benefits. So financially down the road you hire a contract for 400 like Ben was saying. You want to hire employees? No problem!
They just become part of the landscape, and you're swapping employees for outsiders. But it's very difficult to get rid of employees. Those are families. Those are people. They stake their lives on working here. So whereas a company, that's part of life. So be cognizant of hiring more people when we have a budget that's seemingly high, that's based on tourism That's based on sales tax with an economy that's going up and down. And until it stabilizes, we probably should stay with, I mean in my view, stay with contracts because at least then you can cut them back, get rid of them, do something different. But employees?
I mean it's a family affair. They become part of the fabric here. You hire somebody today and if we got a problem, we're gonna lay you off. I don't know what it is here, first-in, first-out, whatever it is. You know, and it becomes a problem. So I would think that Ben's right. Whatever you want, you get. Sure, you want to hire people? That's fine. But the downside is you get more control also, so that's a positive. You can give more direction but it's a balance. So please be cognizant of that and ordinances and contracts and specifications. Thank you sir.
Anybody online?
Yes mayor we do have one raised hand from Renee. Thank you. Renee you may unmute.
2:22 – 2:3212 turns
Good evening. Renee Roth, I am part of the Budget and Finance Committee. And I am glad that our city manager is bringing this item up for discussion. I do feel like this is kind of above the City Council's knowledge base on what's a good idea and what isn't. I would really suggest that since you have Ide Bailey At the city doing work on budget and finance policies that you consider developing a procurement policy.
The whole thing that happened with the grand jury report could have really been addressed if you had a procurement policy If a contract is for this kind of service or that kind of service, this is how we're going to bid it based on the size of our city by some staff of our city. And you have professionals who make recommendations on what they think would be the thresholds that you would go out and bid those things at. And I don't think the City Council probably knows what those answers are So bringing it to the City Council might be a little premature. It might be better to have, or another option to discuss is having a policy, a procurement policy that talks about how you go about it and how you decide and then you approve that procurement policy that some professionals in the field have developed.
Thank you very much.
Well, I have a suggestion that we had talked about just as kind of a case study when we see that the contract renewal is forthcoming and we had talked about code enforcement with Will Dan. That it is a higher ticket item in comparison to some others and it's something that it's individuals doing things that are here a lot I'm just throwing this out there to see what you guys think. We try, we look at a comparison of Will Den as is compared to an employee or employees and just it seems that give us that kind of a comparison as sort of a low-hanging fruit that one that needs to be decided soon.
That's just an idea thrown out for you guys.
Yeah my thought, I don't know how this exactly fits in with what you're saying but Rather than deal with this issue in mass, I see it more logical to maybe group similar types of services and contracts. And just a reminder that the reason this topic has come up and we're discussing it is because there has been a concern that if we Contract too much out. We just don't have institutional knowledge as an institution and So the idea is to have more I also, you know like the idea if I'm now I'm spending some Amount of money that I might actually be able to support somebody who lives in Ojai And so I think all of these are like these cost benefit issues that we have to look.
And I'm not comfortable with the idea of saying, yeah, we're going to move towards more contracting or we're going to move towards less contracting. We kind of have to do it on a topic by topic basis and then you can You know, weigh in on this but I'm thinking that maybe you can group so that we're not handling one per meeting and then they're addressing these contracts aren't addressed until three terms from now.
We try to take a chunk of them out.
Yeah, so if I understand that correctly we'd be kind of dividing this list up. Oh and by the way there could be a contract that's missing from here because we were parsing out so many because it just didn't really make sense to have certain contracts in here. We might have inadvertently chopped something off on the editing room floor okay? So if you do see an omission we'll throw it in. It wasn't intentional Yeah, we can do some grouping and I'm looking at Norma. Norm knows where this is going.
And so for instance there's a real logical one coming up right with with wheeled in building and safety and code enforcement we could bring them all back together those are all within Community Development Department That would be a real logical pairing. They work together as functions, right? You need code compliance and building and safety. And engineering. And engineering. Right. Thank you. That's good. That's why the director is here. But yeah we'd be happy to go through and parse this up. I also would say that some of these just flat out don't make sense so for instance and you know that I'm not trying to be insulting. You know this, right? So but with the TOT hearings when you have to have somebody besides a city attorney there, you need a separate attorney that has no connection to the City whatsoever so you're always going to need a contract or something like that.
I would look to maybe clean this list up to remove items like that. Councilmember?
Yes, I had I like where this is going okay I had similar thoughts and one of them being we you know is there a way to combine maintenance services like the detailing so these are these are taking from some of the conversations that we've had so it combined you know Facility maintenance with detail car detailing or things like that. And so I would also be curious about Grouping some of those maintenance activities when it makes sense and one other thing that we did discuss previously is Was the security the encampment security and looking at the feasibility of Looking at whether or not it was it made more financial sense for us to bring so
that's another one That's coming right back. Yes, and that's a limited term contract as you know Because the thought is that OTT will only be there for approximately one more year. That's okay That still could be an internal employee
And it could be an internal employee that would then transfer to...
Could, could. Right so we can we can do that We can even take that as direction with each new contract that comes forward to automatically include So in addition to the grouping, the combining and consolidating Take it as direction also just include that option within the contract renewal that comes back before you That's
not too cumbersome
no, no it's not it's not if and if it does require some additional time to be more thoughtful We'll just tell you look this contracts. You know now gonna be expired two months But we think it's worth it if you give us that extra time to just provide this analysis So we can bring that back to you. I'm gonna offer one more thing and we can do this, too It's just a bigger effort and I'll tell you why it's a bigger effort but again, I know you know this there's been a lot of discussion in the time that I've been here for like a review and Thank you.
You guys know this. I mean, I'm the cat herder. I wouldn't call myself a subject matter expert in law enforcement. I've hired police chiefs. I've had police departments work for me but I don't always remember every single thing that's involved with doing that day-to-day. I would also want to look at like size organizations that have police departments around here. I mean, I guess Santa Paula might be one I would logically look at I would look at other cities in the state that are around the same size with the same needs, but we're a little unique and this is where the chief would come in. We don't really have a parking enforcement component. Some do so there's some nuances that have to be worked out. We'd be happy to come back with that. That would probably be a longer term thing and I'd be happy to do that This is a request that you have received, and this was also part of the genesis for creating this list.
And if you look at that particular item, you know, that contract's been in place since 1977, and that's in place countywide. This is the contract that the other contract cities have in place. And there is no interest from the other contract cities in reopening this contract Just because and I could talk to you about that as part of the analysis There's a lot that the sheriff would want if we reopen but that could be part of the discussion. It's not there's no secrets You know, this is not anything hidden but just That's part of the discussion.
Yeah, I think it's worthwhile to do that because We do get questions from the community Can't you do this? You know more cost-effectively if you if you brought it in house or People ask us to yeah, we're looking at you know a partnering with Santa Paula or something
We're just open looking at the contract just because it's the biggest contract. We have you know so I wouldn't necessarily want you You know
2:33 – 2:4438 turns
You're right, we're not going to do that. But I think we should be acting from a position of having information and I think the same analysis could go into the idea Deciding to hire a city attorney To be a staff, you know City Attorney. Well, I could do the report Because they're contracting out is gonna still happen and it's and it's going to be expensive
Well you'll note on that one I put office because when Norma and I started talking about it, we're like wait a minute. You need the city attorney, assistant, you may even need a deputy, paralegal, secretary. The City Manager's Office is about $1 million a year. You guys know that. You adopted the but. There's a lot of people in that office, not just me. Same thing with city attorney's offices. It's not...
you know? But yes and then in the end, you would probably need to go out for things because how would you have one person who knows all this? But anyway, on the police matter. Yeah, we would only we wouldn't we if you're not looking to jettison Ventura County Sheriff's Department but I would want to still to your point. I know you get a lot of questions. I get them too. I just want to kind of walk through what we hear and kind of explain and identify the components and again talk about some other agencies that are similar and you have options. Not only could you create your own but you could like you mentioned you can contract with another municipality.
You can do that So.
I just have a thought and I don't know if it's like going to be a big thing, but in my head I'm thinking like restructuring so we have employees that are here see what their duties are and maybe we have a contract that we spend $100000 say a year for. But the basic stuff that they do somebody could put it on their plate with their existing workload and we could pay 50 And then we're building institutional knowledge. They're earning more money, so perhaps they could afford to live in Ojai.
I know it's a
big... We can certainly look at that. My only initial thought is I whip them pretty hard around here. I'm kidding around but everyone is pretty busy wearing multiple hats. No, but in all seriousness, you know, let me just give you an example right now Norma How many different hats are you wearing and your you know as you're hiring your news transit supervisor? You're also doing that Emergency response. Yeah anyway so but I get what you're saying
But I think what you just said Rachel said in a different way when she was You know So in the trades I've done this elsewhere.
Sometimes you can provide incentive pay for certain
skill level so let's say that you are Carpenter or you are a plumber or whatever
You know, in some instances if we had enough bandwidth you could have somebody who's like a maintenance worker two or three. You increase the family ladder and you have a person who does that more skilled work. The maintenance worker classification is very broad. You could be one day doing some wiring on a building and the next day digging a ditch just because that's the gamut. But if you expanded the family a little bit, and I see Lindy is online. She's checking my words here but if you had steps 1-2-3 or senior or whatever.
Something
as simple
as changing the title of the position
could open up a whole new – We can certainly look at that too. Just as a for instance right now, we do have an employee who was talking about getting his arbor. Now there's a lot involved in that you have to go through do the classes and all that but that could be
nice to invest in somebody to do that
So yeah, so we just wanted to kind of have this out there We also wanted to give this to you just kind of as a tool field People ask me this like these are all the ones that were But again, please tell me if we chop something off. I didn't mean to
Is is a next step to take that kind of grouping principle at least look at what was just brought up to say like the code enforcement engineering and also see and say That would be our first I think
that's
a great one
And I like your idea We have these items coming up to us. So let's do the one that we have to look at renewing the contract, and at the same time that we look at some similar- I think that's a good idea.
We can just build that in. We'll take that as direction every single time there will be, you know, we could even add a little section right before fiscal impact. Ability to bring this internal, what are the considerations?
And then what was just said here, that hybrid, it's going to take some creative thinking to look at a couple of contracts Or whatever, or an employee doing something and say, oh we're paying for these two or three things. Could one person do them? And now again I, Mr. Steingold's correct bringing somebody into the family is obviously a big commitment but It's a creative way of wondering about possibility.
He does need to bring up some valid points. I mean that, you know, the city employees have tenure in their positions and excuse me. Lindy needs to talk. Okay. Lindy do want to say something really quick?
Yeah, I do want to say something really quick. To the point about talking about the public works maintenance crews every time we have a vacancy in the department and we're hiring a new public works maintenance worker I have a conversation with Juan, who is our public works superintendent. And we talk about some of the needs of the department and for example, we have some guys who are really good at pouring concrete. We have others who are good plumbers. We have a couple who are really good electricians. So if somebody has left, we look to fill those positions with somebody with a similar skill set or a skill set on some of these sort of in quote trades that we're looking for and that were sort of lacking in the crew.
So we're already doing that as we have an opportunity. And again, like Ben said, we have one staff member who is very interested in becoming a certified arborist and I'm very, very supportive of
that. But also I think this... Thank you, Lindy. I also think this is consistent with council direction potentially expanding a job family which it's a bigger discussion but we could certainly look at that. And I think the maintenance worker one is one that's a logical one to look at.
Well, also we've been talking about increasing code enforcement in many ways. So then it's also trying to take what is part of our conversations and sort of build that into a consideration about what an employee would be like. I know you will do that but that seems to be part of the equation.
Yeah, I mean this will be part of the discussion too. Even thanks to council action we pay competitively however it is sometimes still a challenge to find employees. We are a little further away and of course you know never a guarantee that somebody's gonna end up living here. We want that of course but not always
possible. So how can we frame our direction for you going forward?
Well, why don't I throw out what I hear is what you told me. You can tell me if it's right or wrong and Weston can capture this. So I'm hearing that the council would like us to take the existing contract log list to group, combine, consolidate and pair where possible so that the listing is further refined and categorized, broken up, if you will. Council is also asking that for any contract that is coming back for renewal, especially the near-term ones, you know next few months next year or so At a minimum that there's always an option For the council to consider to bring this service in house and what the what the constraints may be. Mm-hmm I'm also hearing a direction to a longer term effort for me to work with the chief of police and other individuals to try to provide you an analysis of what it would look like if you were to consider moving away from the Sheriff's Department, taking what Councilmember Whitman said is we're not threatening to do that.
It was mostly just trying to respond to constituent concerns about the contract and what's involved with it and what our options are. That sound like the direction it does sound like did you capture that?
And I just have something to add yeah, I'm a little bit unclear and this might be something that we clarify is A criteria for reviewing the merits. Mm-hmm. Like so we taught we talked about a few of them. We talked about you know potentially You know somebody can live in we can somebody can live in Ojai we can provide you know, we can provide a
Oh, I see what you're saying.
You know business for Ojai and so when we are actually doing you know evaluating these what criteria are we using to evaluate? Is it money okay is it you know so having something that we can you know work against would be helpful
Yeah, and one thing that Councilmember Whitman mentioned which I think is this is you know there are upsides and downsides of bringing things internally but an upside is this historical knowledge that you often get if somebody is in the position so that's a consideration that could be made. Yeah,
like institutional knowledge institutional there are some things that you know require institutional knowledge and then there's others that don't That's so I like your
idea though Like almost a checklist for each one where you say it's a pro and con of employee having an employee versus the contractor
So you can kind of evaluate and we're not starting a new with every you know with every new contract that we do
along those lines some of The type of work we're receiving, there might not be much of an expectation that we've got Ojai residents that are ready to do that type of work or skilled to do that type of work. And somewhere it's actually going to—we're going to assume that there would be lots That's right.
And it may be that we have employees that would like to, as with the arborist job who would like to.
So let's add. Thank you. Let's add to the motion and also the direction to consider expanding some city job families where appropriate in order to potentially address a contracted current contracted service
Yeah. And I think that's also something to consider, you know, giving our employees a way to grow.
2:44 – 2:5023 turns
It's it's a career ladder.
Sure. OK.
That
sounds like a paragraph motion.
It is. But that's good. I like it nice and detailed. So be clear.
Well then I'll make that.
I'll say, OK, thanks. Unless Councilmember Whitman. No,
no. It but it's exciting. Great conversation too. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes,
yes.
Thank you. Exciting to see that would be wonderful. Appreciate it.
Thank you.
OK. All right. We're on to number 13 affordable housing agreement located at three one two West Aliso. Hi there.
Yeah I know thanks for your patience. OK and Mr. Seibert and Ms. Burgess will be leading this discussion. Mr. Seibert
do
you want to
start us off? Good evening Councilmembers, my name is Lucas Seibert, Community Development Director here for the City. The item before you tonight is actually kind of broken up into two pieces. The first is an affordable housing agreement before this body for 312 West Aliso Street. The second is a third party monitoring being provided to administer compliance for pre-qualifying those individuals to go into affordable housing units.
The first in terms of the affordable housing agreement, that's a part of what was agreed with the settlement agreement and what came out of that is And this is really only for the two units. The 280 units that are on the second story of the garage not for the other market rate units is a couple pieces. One is we wanted to make sure to include the local kind of first in line provision, so you see those sprinkled throughout here. The second is in terms of weighting the information that came out of the settlement agreement that is also sprinkled into this piece as well.
All of those pieces have formulated the draft affordable housing agreement that you have before you for consideration If this body is agreeable to the agreement as written that agreement would be recorded against the property So each time that the property itself has a vacancy We would be following those provisions identified within this agreement So that's the first piece. The second piece is a third-party monitoring provider, and in this we've identified Area Housing Authority as the model. We've reached out to that individual group as a nonprofit and they have expressed interest. I had them kind of put together a proposal. That proposal is also included here as well. They've identified three different scenarios that you're seeing here as well.
I'm not saying all three, I'm not saying necessarily one but the idea here is having a third party professional vet those individuals as pre-qualifying, getting income statements and some fairly personal information to vet them against what the state standards are for qualifying for the affordable housing units. They could also, I guess the other two options would be staff doing it and or the property owner doing it.
The idea with the Area Housing Authority is not just tied to this property. The thought is having this for others that are coming down the pipeline. This isn't just a one-shot deal.
If I could ask, just to give me the comparison. If we think of the Cabrillo Vista project that's going to be on Bryant, that's a function they would take on themselves when it comes
So is that correct or incorrect? They would try to. OK, but the reality is, is that if we're agreeable to a third party doing that with the because they will have to go through an affordable housing agreement that would become for this body as well. We would then identify that it's a third party vetting it and then both parties agreeing to that process. But you're right. Cabrillo already does that vetting themselves I think the concern that I have with each of these and not to say that they would be inconsistent or out of order.
I like the idea of having a third party vet this out. I am not the professional from this standpoint, I learned a lot having area housing authority kind of go through and vet the first individual for this site because I really didn't know how to even start from that standpoint it's not something I've pervaded and have gone through before so learning from them in terms of that process was helpful But also recognizing that it's not something that the city is vetting. We're obviously accepting or having the property owner do that because there's some potential bias that could be perceived there, so...
And just so you know, we didn't do an RFP with Area Housing Authority. But I'm certainly well aware of the other groups that are out there. I've reached out to a couple of them via phone call. Obviously, Cabrillo wasn't considered or even Manny Mansions. They're not necessarily a group that seems to be interested in this when I reached out to them. Cabrillo, I basically wrote them off knowing that the larger project coming forward
2:50 – 2:5532 turns
And not to belabor the point, the Cabrillo project that's on Montgomery, the one that's been there for a long time. Do you happen to know if it's a third party?
No, they do it themselves. Yeah. The housing element actually identifies that.
OK. Oh sorry. Yes, I should. So who...
So the other interesting one is so for instance, let's use Whispering Oaks, for example, Area Housing Authority. That's those units.
And who pays the 162?
So HUD identifies where the money comes from, but I'm not really sure from. So that's an unknown for me. I don't know if Bethany could chime in here in terms of how that's paid.
And I think the way that the agreement is written in the packet, that would be a payment that comes from the city to the area housing authority.
Yeah, well you're talking about in terms of what we're talking about here. I think you're speaking to how is that paid out like through Whispering Oaks? Well
it's both and so in other words, I understand that if we initiate this third party We may have to write the check but and we're not talking about tons of people I mean each time somebody has to be vetted and then they're vetted So there's not But I was just curious, I guess
it's a per month. So yeah, they've been
vetted and selected. We're understood. Just so you know, I'm not recommending the first scenario because that one seems a little bit more daunting from a pricing standpoint.
I guess the question I was kind of getting to is There's a settlement agreement that we all understand how it is there. But then to say, oh, there's this now piece that the city would be responsible for in some way, is just to be considered seriously.
Yeah,
go ahead.
No, the HELP of Ojai contract is specific. Well there's like three but one's for case management for OTT and it's very specific as to what – it's specifically for participants who live here. The other is for the rental assistance. The other is for ADA transportation services. Those are the three that we
have.
I'm not saying how before I couldn't maybe do this type of thing But I don't know. I have never talked to Jane to see if she's interested
Yeah, I was just thinking that if we're already contracting with them for rental assistance that perhaps something like this could fall underneath there
That no And I wouldn't want to I mean I if you council wanted to direct me to talk to Jane about this I certainly could
So your point number two, I mean the second example, I'm looking at page 243 of our packet. That's the 250 per file? Correct. Yeah that's the one you're proposing or you're suggesting.
Okay so if they have to go through 10 applicants before they select somebody, the fees $25,000.
Right, but here's what I'm noticing is they vet each individual one and there is a lot of work that goes into it to be fair from what I've seen. So the 250 does seem pretty reasonable.
But that's not a monthly fee? They
do it once a day? It's on a per case basis exactly, per application basis.
Yeah, I was going to suggest that potentially we move forward with this. But I did like the idea of potentially expanding out to see if there was a synergy between what Help of Ojai is already doing and what they already know about our community and the documents that they already have, the connections they already have, and see if it's a possibility that this would be an expansion they would be interested in But I don't want to hold this up so and if this is sort of a one off on, you know, this particular unit and this particular file. I would suggest we move forward with the housing authority and also look to see if Health of Ojai would be a reasonable If they'd be interested.
Well my thought was, my thinking was along the same lines of what you just said more articulately which was they know all of the folks in the community who would be most in need of low-income housing And they already have those paperworks and they're trying to help them find all kinds of other forms of assistance. So it seems to me like there could be a real synergy there. I agree.
Yeah, happy to talk to them about that. Institutional
knowledge,
as we would say. Of course. We're getting into this. I don't have any public comment cards on this item. That's OK. No, it's my fault. We have
one raised
hand
for Mr. Miley. Let's take them. Oh yeah. Mr. Miley, we will take your raised hand now and you have the ability to unmute.
2:55 – 3:0015 turns
We're talking about two units. Two units! I don't like any of the three proposed options for reviewing tenant applications They're either too expensive, what's this $162 per month per unit? Area Housing Authority or owner reviewed. That can't be very fair or transparent.
Is that all Mr.
Miley? H-S-H-A. AAH should have expanded Whispering Oaks years ago so I question their leadership I like the option of using another agency in the county, Cabrillo Economic Development Corporation. As they're building a development next to Whispering Oaks that they could have expanded on H-A-A and they've also managed Montgomery Oaks for years very successfully They're the ones that know the need and have the procedures, in my opinion.
Thank you.
Thank you Mr. Miley. Mayor we have one more on Zoom. Okay. I should take that now? Yeah sure. It's either ACCRA or ACRA. You have the ability to unmute and you have the floor.
So this is Anita Cram.
Oh hey!
Sorry I think that was just part of my email address.
No problem.
Anyway, I really think third party is a really good idea with this and if help of Ojai could do it that would just be awesome. But I think you know whatever the best organization to do it as the one that should be chosen. I'd also like to bring up that to remind City Council about the vacant housing tax that's been discussed but never acted on Because that could be a direct fund that could help with these low-income housing issues.
And you're talking about these applications, you know, that the city's going to have to pay for. You can have a fund for that. That could accumulate money for just those types of issues. Okay thank you.
Thank you very much and then we have Starchild please come up.
Thank you Mayor and Council. I'd like to associate myself with Anita Cram's remarks that Help of Ojai could be a potential third-party vendor that you're looking for. Didn't we just talk about putting out requests for proposal for expenses when we talked about the grand jury report? Well, here's another—here's a chance to amend the previous way we did things I heard Lucas say that he didn't reach out to Cabrillo because he wrote them off. Instead of Lucas calling somebody he knows and coming up with a number, I think instead we should put out a request for proposal to the whole community. We should ask Cabrillo if it's true they don't want to participate. Ask help of Ojai.
Ask Habitat for Humanity all organizations who are doing this work and we should find the best qualified competent kind of least expensive Vendor and use them instead of just picking somebody and giving them the Contract. Thank you. Thank you Mr. Stengel
I'm confused, which is probably pretty easy. Blowing off Cabrillo as they're the ones who came to us and said we want to build affordable housing. They're the ones who are going to get the rent. They're the ones who were going to be vetting the tenants. They're all supposed to be affordable. Why do we have to participate in paying anything?
You're mixing up the properties. We're not talking
about Cabrillo. Oh, I understand that. But Cabrillo was brought up. All right? So I'm just following. The two to three units, no big deal. Right. That's fine. But because it was put on the table we should do what Starchild is. Put it out to bid and why are we bidding it anyway? I don't understand why we have to pay $162.50 to ensure that people are affordable. That's the landlord's issue. He's the one getting the rent. We're not getting any of the rent, so correct me if I'm wrong. Why are we having to pay?
Just a question. Thank you.
OK. Well, we are just talking about two units, of course, at least right now here in this property. Yeah, but I'm thinking this is a prototype for future potentially. Yeah, I get that.
3:00 – 3:0613 turns
I think it's reasonable to assume that these two units are just these two units. To me, it is reasonable to assume that Cabrillo would not want to come in and do the background work for two units. That, to me, is a completely reasonable sort of deduction. I do understand the idea about starting a process improvement now, but this is such a small project. And we should just move on with it and then work out for the larger projects how we would want to move forward.
Yeah, it'd be great to put it out for an RFP for two units. But the amount of time and energy it would take to do that for two units just doesn't seem to be a proper return on investment. I think you need to evaluate specifics as well as a general policy. And for me, the specifics of two units is the housing authority They're not a gamble, really. So that's kind of my perspective. My perspective remains the same which is that we move forward with the area housing authority and that we then look to figuring out what might be the best way in the future With larger projects and ask Cabrillo if for their 49 units, are they planning to do this? Is this something that they contract out as well.
And I think that this is a very special situation where a third party makes sense just to keep all things separate and all people happy. You know, once again it's just not worth the headache that could possibly come to fruition if there was any sort of inclination that this had been unfairly done. We would be in a morass and it's just not worth it.
Also, if we did go forward with these two units you would then have some experience about working with them before you came to us again for the next project?
Right. That'd be good. The other the other idea is, is that we could take this out for an RFP and really kind of vet it out move forward with this one but then do the RFP for the ones moving forward.
I think we should ask So
what I would say it's under your current purchasing ordinance Contracts for less than 30,000 or for $30,000 or less do not require competition so if if you're talking about approving a contract that is has a value of
Like
$2,000? $2.00 a year or 200 and- Definitely less than five, yeah. Your purchasing ordinance doesn't require that. That's different from the contract with Dignity Moves which had a value of 9.5 million. Of course. So I think that... I don't think this implicates those same concerns exactly but I do appreciate that there may be value in identifying your long term strategy. Absolutely.
Um, separate and apart from what you do right now.
I would also whatever we end up doing ask help of Ojai would they be interested in this work that makes just to ask
They are
by
the way Yeah For me the most important thing that we can do here is make sure that however we do this Our priority is that that city prioritization, the ordinance that we have that says, you know, residents, we have criteria are all spelled out. It's followed I, I envision if Papa though hi sees this as a something that they can do being more tuned into that than the area housing authority would be. And they might even be a little bit reluctant towards the idea of were you know We're not covering the whole area with what we're doing, but we're doing that purposefully.
If I may ask you like I'm looking at page 228 as one instance did anything strike you as not commensurate with that intention on the preference policy? Yeah,
I'm talking about who administers the priority is somebody who's gonna be really good at doing this and we have I'm not gonna say that. I like this idea but as long as we're talking about things It has come up In the past and I'm really not in favor of creating all kinds of commissions but we have discussed the idea of whether we should have a Housing Commission That would kind of perform some of these kind of Administrative, you know review process almost like an ombudsman You know I was just talking to somebody about our tenant protection ordinance, and I'm just wondering whether it's ever been invoked.
3:06 – 3:0920 turns
Yeah.
Yeah, I would say on average we probably have one a week and I don't know if I can speak on... Can I speak on things that
That's not agendized, so we should
bring that back as a future agenda.
Can we get an agendized report? I'm interested in hearing.
Yeah, I am too interested in what is bubbling up and how it's bubbling up. You know with the new federal housing law that was just passed because Trump slept through his veto... We now have at least some sort of limitation on private equity buying up single-family dwellings Anyway, all of this is a conversation to have and we have it has bubbled up on occasion about a housing commission of some sort or you know someone who can Be an ombudsman or you know speak to this. So
well at least for tonight It seems to me that the request is one is to approve the contract approve approve the agreement language And then the second would be if we wanted to put, we can keep them separate or and have the developer manager third party assessment but go with option number two, the 250 per file. If I saw you correctly that's the one you opt for.
It seems to be the most reasonable.
Yeah. And it would be just for these two units and
nothing?
Correct.
Okay. And then yeah, and then we'd be asking and we asked if they are interested in performing that service for us
They are. I didn't hear from her. She told me that they would be interested in talking about this. Okay, so that's the motion.
Okay, so that's the motion I'll
be honest. I was not as clear on the motion could I ask? director cyber to Please spit it out or City Attorney Bridges. Okay Wow Well I'm saying,
so what I, tell me if I didn't get this right. So that we are, if I'm proposing the motion is to accept the rental agreement as written and the second would be to authorize the third party vetting with option two which is the per
file
fee.
So it's approved recommendations number two and three. And four in the staff report, but include with recommendation number three that the city select option number two and also request additional information from help of Ojai regarding their ability to provide those services.
Option number two or what's referred to as scenario two. Thank
Roll-call vote Passed 5–0
Show transcript
3:10 – 3:1521 turns
Thanks for being
here Onward We are on number 14, the ad hoc committee formation for a community land trust.
And I'm going to turn things over to Mr. Montgomery for a very brief staff report.
It should be brief and sandwiched in between Lucas's items. So I have for you a report. It came from your May 12th action as a council during our Habitat for Humanity discussion to return separately with an item to create an ad hoc committee. So we prepared a brief report asking you to discuss and select two, and we recommend that it's a six month term. Any questions?
I think we seem to pick two.
Yeah, I have a
question.
I did get an inquiry whether it would be appropriate to have any community members on the committee.
My recommendation would be that we not include community members only because at that point it's no longer a pure ad hoc. One of the benefits of an ad hoc is that the members of the ad hoc can work together without going through the full noticing and public engagement process. Not that this wouldn't have its own public engagement I think the work out of the Ad Hoc would become part of a fully vetted public process But I think by adding members of the community we we turn it from being an ad hoc into You know something different and if that's council's intent. We can do that, but I Think the benefit of an ad hoc is it provides you with a little more agility and flexibility to kind of dig in Do the work?
Yeah That's
Well before we get into it, is there any comments online?
No
Mayor.
Thank
you. Just throwing it out there happy to not be selected but I would suggest Mr. Whitman you should be on it because you've done all this work. I'm offering myself but I'm also open to suggestions.
I was also going to nominate Councilmember Whitman and actually the mayor being on it makes sense to me Yeah.
I mean, I had the exact same idea. The only thing I would say is that I would like to have some structure to this. You know? I don't know if it's an outline first but this is...I don't know what the ad hoc is going to come back with but this is in depth I mean, there's legal ramifications. There's alternatives. It's not just do we want a land trust? It's like what does a land trust look like? What are the legal requirements of a land trust? How would that work in Ojai? You know, how does it work in other places? I mean, it's a complex question.
And I don't know if, you know, some sort of outline or process before starting it is warranted. But, you know, if it were me, I would be kind of out there in OK, where do I even start? Right. Because even if I were to do the research right, what are the questions I need to ask? What are the implications I need to understand? What are the recommendations I need to bring back Those are complex questions.
So what I will say, I think I have an easy answer maybe or a recommendation. One of the communities that was evaluated in bringing the information to the city council and Council Member Whitman did some of the legwork in even gathering or identifying this community but there's another Southern California community that did go through a process for this and they actually shared all of their They're kind of process documents that they went through. And so, you know I think one of my recommendations might be and also in the previous staff report we identified a number of the considerations that the community land trust would need to evaluate and some of that was taken from those documents So, I mean it may be that the first task of the ad hoc is to kind of sit down with some of that information and come up with a kind of a work plan for and kind of a timeline for how we would evaluate that.
And that could be something that the Ad Hoc reports back to the Council on.
There's also a state and national organization that I'm sure would want to nudge us in the right direction.
Yeah, so I think there is a guide. There's a model for how to do this but I think it would you know given that the end result of this is going to be something that could be fairly significant for the council to implement and recommend, you know approve. To grapple with. Yeah, I think it makes a lot of sense that there could be some interim report outs from the ad hoc committee. Great thank you.
Any objections? All right
3:15 – 3:2011 turns
Do we need a motion? No, go ahead. Okay I'll make a motion that we nominate the two Andes Mayor Gilman and Council Member Whitman to form the ad hoc committee.
I second that.
Roll-call vote Passed 5–0 motion that we nominate the two Andes Mayor Gilman and Council Member Whitman to form the ad hoc committee. I second that. Okay all right. R
Show transcript
Yay!
That's awesome okay last concept review building code options return
And mr. Cyber will bring us
home I'll
keep it brief The information you have here, so first of all this is coming on the heels forefront of the action that this body took December of last year In that, the discussion was they asked to bring back additional local amendments that would work with the AB 130 code freeze that has basically taken place. So the code freeze itself as you can see in the report prohibits really any California Building Code amendments until June 1st of 2031.
There are limited exceptions to that and I've highlighted those here. There's about six in total You know looking this over kind of at a high level And I think it kind of went through the conversation just briefly during December was potential home hardening pieces So we took a look at a community that's up north the city of Piedmont that's also identified in here They've done some of those pieces And then we did a little bit of an evaluation as to whether or not the city would actually qualify for some of these pieces.
And that kind of litmus test piece seemed to draw yeses, but then one potential no that potentially creates an argument towards a yes given that like for instance the most direct one is the adoption of a climate action plan Well, that's in the works and certainly we can identify that as a piece that's moving forward. Some of the other pieces that are great litmus tests are like obviously the flex path. We already had existing gas lawn equipment bands. In addition to that there is a gas chainsaw band as well with exceptions that are pretty limited in terms of what we look at.
So there's certainly options and those options from a home hardening standpoint, if we just focus on that. Talk about things such as roofing gutters, vents and openings, windows and doors, siding and walls, and then attached structures. So those are kind of the high level pieces for conversation. This is a concept obviously so this was meant to bring back information and then invoke some conversation and then see where it goes from there.
Thank
you.
My question is, there's a great list here and obviously home hardening is as a big umbrella that a lot could fall under. Is there something that struck you from Piedmont or otherwise that you thought oh this would be a great first instance to try to bring something more concrete?
You know, it's interesting. I always when I was looking at each of these, I thought to myself which one is like the like the cheapest option where if you were to extend it all the branch to say hey we're looking at this as a program there's an incentive potentially tied to it. The The one that I was looking at was the non-combustible gutter covers. That one, when I saw that, I mean the projects that I'm going out and doing finals for have them right now.
So and obviously there's many homes that are way before like They don't have and it's, it kind of gets into that flex path conversation of there's lots of homes that are just underserved and highly inefficient. Well, there's lots of homes that just don't have that home hardening piece. This is one of those that just feels like low hanging fruit. Okay. Right? Pretty low cost. It's something we could probably bring back from a modeling standpoint.
3:20 – 3:2518 turns
Thank you
for that.
Yep.
Is there anything in the FlexPath program that is going to run into problems with the restriction?
With the restriction for...
Oh, that we can't do any changes until 2031?
No, the flex path is okay because we took that forward before. So that one's okay. And just as an update to the flex path, we have received approval from Building Commission and we are looking to get that same approval from the Energy Commission. They wouldn't look at it until they got the official nod from the Building Commission. We received that in May and now Energy Commission is looking at that currently
Okay, any other questions I have one public comment I think it must be Larry
Because this affects us Putting it out on a draft form, on a website that shows exactly how it's going to affect us financially. Because it looks to be, if I'm correct, between $35,000 and $135,000 for changes? Am I correct in that?
Well keep going.
Okay, well for things like that okay I mean we did the other one I believe with the electrical which is 300 feet and a thousand feet and that inches us forward 30-40 homes a year out of 4,000 so that's good for because that was your number 30 and for so that's we're looking at 100 years to get the houses and apartments changed This is, if you spend $20.35 on $135, you have to do this and have to do that.
This is dribs and drabs. I mean, this is we'll do it, get it done, get it done eventually. Again, this is more, to me, more performative and virtuous if you're going to make the town fire-hardened, do it upon sale, do it upon renewal or just—this is like And again, it's going to take how many years? I mean, I don't know how many people are spending $35,000 or $135,000. But if it's happening, great! But is there going to be another 30 per year?
Another 40 per year? Fine. It's another—maybe we'll get the whole town done in 50 years. Great. How about incentives that get stuff done now? Reduce fees. Rewave fees for fire hardening. You have a million dollars, spread it around. You want to get grants? Get grants for fire hardening from insurance companies or something but we can't wait 100 years to fire harden the town. It may not be here next year, oh God forbid.
But the point is we need to do something a little bit more with a little sense of urgency You know like, gee another Thompson fire? That's only been let's see nine years. Do we have to wait another nine that so in which case thirty three hundred and sixty or five hundred houses four hundred houses might be done in ten. But not, you know, 40 a year or 50 a year. I mean we either do it or don't do it but do it upon sale. I was in real estate. You put it on the buyer. I'm sorry this gets my house done and gets to, you know, this is just the way it is. Code enforcement, fire hardening, fire laws.
It takes decades to get this stuff done. I don't think we have enough time. Thank you.
Well, it seems like what I heard from this body is the million dollars set aside in the budget for fire mitigation would potentially be used for things like let's say screens and attics and all that. So the incentive program or even the purchasing or whatever we end up doing there would be from that but you're talking about something that's not that but you're saying what could we also add? That is the low-hanging fruit that you're talking about
Right. I think you're hitting on the piece that was being mentioned there could be some sort of a program Yeah, that could be brought forward right? Absolutely. Yeah, and I mean council's already set aside some money for that totally makes sense And maybe it's maybe it's more than just the screens Maybe as we're evaluating this and we come back with a program It ends up being a menu of options that
right
that kind of incentivize it. I love that
Well, and we have actually on our working agenda on the master list of agendas. That is going to be an item that comes back in August. Is that correct? Or is it August or September? We have
a workshop in August that we let's bring that one forward though, to say let's fast track that idea, that kind of incentivizing idea or purchasing idea. Yeah. So you're looking for some direction to say what to do first? I'm
looking for some direction. So if there is an interest in the incentive program, essentially, but there's also an interest in workshopping at first...
3:25 – 3:3544 turns
I think the item tonight is not so much about the incentive program. It's more about whether council would like to direct staff to bring back a concept review on a local building code amendment to address home hardening. That's probably
a better way to put it. I think there's also, I'm not sure that I would call it a concept review at that point because if we're getting direction tonight to move forward with a couple of these items or at least bring forward a small menu for consideration, Because there is still the piece of making the argument because we're going beyond.
I'm just suggesting that we won't be coming forward, I think after this meeting with an ordinance on first reading. We would probably be bringing it back for discussion.
I love the menu of items idea though. That's really good.
Yeah, I think so too and I'm happy to make a motion to ask direct staff to bring a menu of items forward for council consideration for local amendments to the building code.
Second that.
Understood.
This is also really this whole night has been some things that we've been thinking about for a while and here they are, which is really neat.
Yeah, yeah. I was going to say we discussed this. And this is one of our priorities. Thank you for that. So thank you. Yeah.
I think the one clarification on the motion is are we focused right now on home hardening? It sounded like we were
I think we need to be. Yes,
because we have the flex path and so I think the flex path is our climate. Our theme meets the climate needs. I think home hardening would be the menu
of options related to home hardening. This is how it should be put into the motion please. Yes
Roll-call vote Passed 4–0 motion please. Yes thanks. Got it. Recorded. Roll call. · 1 under review
Show transcript
All right, does
anybody that's our last item any council member reports Or future agenda items
Yeah, I've got a cup. Yeah, all right agenda items. Mm-hmm I think is probably on her left but I'm I am interested in hearing a concept of what Is legally viable in terms of a vacancy tax. Mm-hmm I know I've seen I've seen lots of different
we do have
that
council member on August 25th meeting
good wasn't that the second house
tax? Well, yeah, okay second home tax vacancy tax, I believe they're synonymous, okay, correct Yep, we do have it Also
I'm asking for a concept review on whether we could make it a mandatory condition of sale. Ember screens have been installed the each home that goes through a sale Now whoever we put that on I'm interested in all ideas of it on the buyer if it's on the seller. I'm also interested in Some aspect of the home hardening, but I'm a little bit reluctant to say anything about that until the state is kind of more affirmative about what they're gonna do.
But we could potentially maybe start with that and look
at
some of those home hardening as a mandatory condition sale once... Well let's just stick with the ember screens. That's a good one.
Mayor, is that a second to his request? Yes. Second for me. Thank you.
And I'll add one from Mr. Steingold tonight and that is looking at having the agenda out in time for publication for the Ojai Valley News. That happens
for like a month
or two.
Yes, I'd like to point out to Council we can do that. I'm gonna tell you this though with what you're just doing here adding future agenda items That does not help us in the separate and I will tell you in June. We had how many council meetings? So if you want to do something like that, I'm going to tell you we're going to go to less meeting. And that's just how it's going to happen because we need more time. I know we make it look simple and seamless to crank out these reports and the packets but it's a lot of effort guys.
Maybe
what we need to do is it's a concept review or a discussion item
about Resetting our time frame. Let Ben explain to us what the limitations are and what the ramifications are, but I am very much in favor of that and actually this is kind of related. But somebody did say something to me yesterday about how sometimes we got people who have shown up for a specific item, but they're at the end. And they're not there by the time we hear their item and that did happen tonight because we had a couple of people show up and I'm almost certain that they were here And I think maybe we need to be a little bit more specific and pause and think about okay, is there a group of people who have come And can we move them up so that they can talk and then go
home? Even tonight, we moved up the Green Coalition because we knew that people were coming. That's an example but we could do it on the fly here and just look out in the audience. We pretty much know who is here.
Right. You could do a show of hands. Yeah.
I think also, I mean I thought this time specific like moving things along a little bit quicker and I think there are ways to do that. One of them you know that is done in other places is that you have no decision meeting so it's a discussion and people can go away and come back and think about it you know, so that there's more like a presentation and it gets closer to a time specific. It gives people two opportunities to speak to things. You know the first time is a clarifying time. The second time is, you know final clarifying in a voting.
So I think you guys are saying the same thing. I think a concept review item to have this discussion would be very healthy and we can kind of go through different options and you know what's involved and what's possible. We're happy to talk about
Yeah, and time-specific.
You know I get testy because I just don't want to disappoint you guys and that's the problem. Well I
asked you, what would it take to meet every week even if the alternate ones were workshops with no decisions? Well we almost do. Actually in 2025 we met 10 times more than the Council. It's true but... Well, I did not intend it but the manager suggested that might be another employee. That's the conversation to have
We can thoughtfully have it we can go through and if you okay, so just real quick I know what this is. No, that's okay but if you if you just had a simple presentation or A very very like You know, it's like a workshop
well,
we're not expected to bring all the information Yeah,
I think we I think the future agenda item would be bringing back like a kind of a concept review on yes This work shopping. Yes, I think that's good Let's do
it And the city attorney and I today talked about the idea that we could have some work sessions where we're discussing in front of the public things, but it isn't so much like a debate decision-making. But it's fleshing out issues on items that we know are going to take more time and deliberation And then that would give them the chance to formulate more of their ideas before it comes back for a decision. I'd welcome
that. That's great. And that could be part of the same meeting, can't we? Yeah, the audience could speak at more length too and there's all kinds of ways we could work that out. Okay so we have it. Anything else? We're adjourned and with our break see you guys in August!