Ojai City Council Special Meeting

Okay, welcome everyone to the Tuesday August 18th City Council special meeting. Roll call please Mr. Montgomery.

Council member Lange is participating remotely and council member Lange could you please confirm that you are the only adult over the age of 18 in the room

Yes, that is correct.

Okay and then all council action tonight will be taken with a roll call for teleconference participation.

Mayor and City Council members, I'm speaking tonight on the issue of the review of the city manager's performance. I don't normally read my comments but tonight I'm going to just make sure that I don' get anything wrong here so apologize for the lack of emotion in my talk here. On May 19th the Finance and Budget Committee reviewed the draft 26-27 budget It included a calculation of the general fund reserve ratio that was not consistent with either how it was done in the prior year or how the policy resolution called for it to be done.

At that meeting, I pointed this out and requested that the calculation be put back to be consistent with the approved policy. In a follow-up May 21 email to Finance Director Cho with a copy to City Manager Harvey, I listed several changes that I recommended to the draft budget starting with the correction of the general fund reserve ratio calculation. Mr. Harvey responded to Ms. Cho regarding my email, a copy of which I am supplying to you today via Weston from which you can draw your own conclusions.

When the final budget was presented to the City Council on June 23rd, it contained the faulty calculation of the reserve ratio. I pointed this out during public comments at that meeting stating my strong opinion that it was not proper to make a unilateral change to a calculation that was specifically described in the city council's general fund reserve policy resolution Surprisingly Mr. Harvey pretended he was unaware of this issue in response to Councilwoman Rule's specific question about the calculation change, he stated I can have Brenda help me with this one. I don't necessarily understand what Clay is getting at with that because we haven't made any change, any type of change or deliberate shift that I'm aware of.

It's always been based on unless there is something I'm forgetting, we have not made any change. Ms. Cho, is there something that I am aware of that I am not aware of or forgetting? After a bland response from Ms. Cho, Mr. Harvey concluded his comment by saying we will meet with him and we'll hear him out and we'll come back to you. In the seven weeks since then, Mr Harvey has not met with me.

So in summary he unilaterally changed the calculation He claimed in front of you that he didn't know what I was talking about, despite clear video and evidence to the contrary. He threw his finance director under the bus and then he failed to follow through with his promise to meet with me. In my opinion cooking the books and not telling the truth are both sins but asking your accountant to lie for you in a public meeting is a mortal sin because that's how hostile work environments get started.

We used to have a saying at my work and it went, if you condone it, you own it. I would strongly advise you to not condone this. Thank you.

Thank you Mr. Casey. Mr. Stengel did you want to make a public comment before we go into closed session? Okay. Do I have anybody online? No raised hands ma'am. Then we will go into closed session thank you. One, two check. All right thank you for waiting for us everyone um we're out of the closed session city attorneys report out of the closed session please

All right, the report out from the closed session on the City Manager's Performance Evaluation is that the city council has directed the city attorney to work with the HR director to prepare a contract with JMSB Strategies LLC for the City Manager's 360 performance review. And for the other closed session on Rule B. Ojai we have no reportable action yet but hopefully soon

Thank you for that. So, moving on to the discussion if the council will indulge I'd like to switch the order of these two so that we can have the information regarding the new communication tower ahead of the goals and tactics since we have some folks here any objections to that? Rachel do you object to that

Nope, I'm good with it. Is that a good enough? Do we need a motion?

Yeah.

Okay, I'll make the motion. Well,

pardon. That was declared in the approval of the agenda earlier. Correct

but then I'm switching three and four

so

that's an amendment to that.

I had that marked that we can always over-motion.

Right

okay

yes got it So, you're good? Or should we do a vote?

Let's do a vote! We have a remote council member. We should do every action by roll call. Let's do a vote.

I'll move to change the order of three and four. Need a second please.

Second.

Thank you.

Okay Mayor, give us a moment. I'm gonna ask Mr. Seibert to come on up. We're going to give a very brief staff report from the Community Development Director with some commentary from the City Attorney and then we're gonna turn it over to Chief Cleary and his team and the chief has a presentation he'd like to give as well so Mr. Seibert you know start things off this evening for us

Good evening, Councilman. My name is Lucas Seibert, Community Development Director here for the City of Ojai. The item we have before you tonight is informational regarding the new communication tower proposed or currently under construction at the fire station number 21 located at 1201 East Ojai Avenue. You've got a lot of information within the staff report as well as some attachments. What I'm going to really kind of do is just identify how did we, as the city become aware of it and then what is our process typically for these wireless facilities?

The zoning, height limitations those types of pieces just to kind of set the table from a discussion standpoint And I think Bethany is going to talk a little bit about the legal stuff. And then we've got Nick here to kind of go through the overall project. So how did we as a city become aware of it? Really, it's kind of an interesting scenario. Last Monday, we received a phone call from a subcontractor saying hey, we want to do inspection for the foundation.

And they identified the address and then I immediately had staff coming to me saying, what's what is this that's going on? So that raised a lot of red flags. We started reaching out to fire department try to understand what was going on typically with wireless telecommunications facilities. We have two different applications that are required for it. One is a DRP or Design Review Permit, and then the second is a Conditional Use Permit. Now in this particular zone which is the PL there isn't a height limitation which means that it would require both the DRP and a CUP. The CUP would then govern the height of a wireless telecommunications facility if it was new and not within the jurisdiction of the county.

What that means is that the height limitation isn't a 60 foot or an 80 foot, it really kind of is determined through the planning commission review as well as this body from a review and determination standpoint. The site is zoned PL so public quasi-public land I think that's pretty much it in terms of setting the table from a land use perspective. I'll let Bethany kind of speak through the legal stuff because there is some interesting nuances as well.

So, the additional thing to note with respect to this project is that under California law there is a principle that whenever a public agency is constructing or building a project That is required for the public agencies operations and they are building that project within the jurisdiction of another governmental agency. So like in this case, for example you have the Ventura County Fire Department building a cell tower located within the corporate limits of the city There are certain exemptions that apply to both the local building code, so basically instead of being subject to the city's building code authority and building permit authority process they can fall under the county's building permit process. But additionally they're exempt from the city zoning requirements and other general plan similar types of requirements.

And so as part of that, the county would only be required to comply with its own zoning requirements for the project on county land. So long as it's for the county's operations. And so in this case we did look into whether the project had followed the applicable requirements for the county's process and so when you look at the County Zoning Code with respect to cellular facilities and communications towers, they actually include an exemption in their code for county projects.

So they complied with the county permitting and zoning requirements. They complied with the county building permit requirements. And so there's actually not a role for the city in regulating this particular project even though it's located within the City of Ojai. Um, which is a bit different than if we were dealing with a private telecom provider.

Thank you Chief. Oh sorry no chief come on up and we can queue up your PowerPoint if that's okay

see this thing works I wrote down my words because I just wanted to make sure we capture everything good. So yeah, I'm going to look down and look up at the same time. But Nick Cleary, Ventura County Fire Division Chief. I'm your city appointed fire representative. Good evening Mayor, Council Members, City staff and community members that are here. Thank you for the opportunity to provide some background and context regarding the radio tower upgrade at Fire Station 21.

With me, I have our Deputy Fire Chief Chuck Derry. Our Facilities Manager Dave Kirby and then our IT Manager John T. And they'll be available to answer any questions after when we go through the PowerPoint. First, I want to directly acknowledge an area where the fire district fell short. We did not provide this city with adequate advanced communication regarding the timing, scope, construction and visual impact of this project. This was a failure on our part and I take responsibility for ensuring we improve that process moving forward. And I honestly do take this personally.

We value our relationship with the City of Ojai. A project intended to improve public safety should not create unnecessary concern because we failed to adequately communicate what was occurring and why. It's also important to explain why this project is necessary and how it supports the city's own goals and priorities. And I wrote down five of them. Three of them, I think this really meets and then five of them, I think we broke in what you guys are trying to improve on. And so goal number two, wildfire safety and risk mitigation. Reliable communications are fundamental to wildfire response during a rapidly developing wildfire firefighters law enforcement dispatchers and our emergency responders depend on radio communications to coordinate evacuations deploy resources maintain accountability and protect the community.

Ojai's location and wildfire exposure makes resilient emergency communications particularly important. And that's goal number two. Goal number four, infrastructure maintenance and improvement. Our existing radio system is approaching the end of its service life. Rather than waiting for the system to fail or become obsolete, Ventura County is proactively investing in infrastructure necessary to support the next generation of emergency communication.

Goal number five, public safety. Ultimately this project is about public safety when someone calls 911 the community expects emergency responders to have reliable communications that's capable and must work not only normal during normal daily operations but also during wildfires earthquakes severe weather major incidents and other emergencies where communication systems are under greatest demand.

And then the biggest one goal number nine communications and relationships This is an area where the City's goals also highlight where the Fire District did not meet the standard we expect of ourselves on this project. The City has also made progress towards strengthening communications and community engagement, including addressing its events and public information functions, providing opportunities such as town halls for direct engagement with the community. We should have been a better partner in this effort.

The Fire District's communication regarding Fire Station 21's project did not provide the City, its elected officials, the community with sufficient lead time to understand what was being constructed, why it is necessary, what it would look like and how it supported the broader regional public safety system. While the operational need for the tower remains important, the need for the project does not excuse the communication gap. Good partnerships require communication before a project becomes visible to the community, not after questions and concerns arise.

Going forward, I will take responsibility to work more closely with our facility staff and our partner agencies to ensure projects that may affect the City or its residents are communicated early. This includes providing clearer project descriptions, anticipated timelines, potential community impacts, sufficient lead time for city staff and elected officials to communicate this with the residents.

Technology continues to evolve and our emergency communications infrastructure must evolve with it. Replacing an aging system before it reaches failure allows us to remain proactive, innovative, and prepared rather than proactive. Station 21's tower is one component of a large regional investment intended to improve reliability, interoperability and resilience for agencies that serve Ojai and the surrounding communities. There are really two lessons from this project. First we need modern and reliable infrastructure to protect our firefighters emergency responders in the public. And this is the biggest one. Second we need strong communication and relationship with the communities we serve. One should never come at the expense of the other We can build the right infrastructure while we also do a better job communicating why it is needed, what the community should expect and how to open these supports for safety.

We appreciate the city's partnership. We recognize our communication fell short and we are committed doing better moving forward. Thank you Chief. So with that I'm gonna try to use this thing and not point anybody but basically this is just a short slide thing it's going to show I'll have our subject matter experts come up or we're going to talk about the communication Thank you. Good evening and thank you for the opportunity to speak. I have a few notes here on my phone that I'm going to reference, so if I'm looking down that's what I'm doing.

So as Chief said, this project is really infrastructure. There's really no new technology or telecommunications on this piece of the project. We're replacing an end-of-useful service life tower with a industry standard tower. It's going to set us up for improved reliability and stronger signal perceptions. And then it will give us flexibility or implementation of future technologies as they become available, and the future could be decades of time.

Soon. We currently do not have any plans to add any new technology. This project will move the existing antennas that are on the roof tower onto the new tower. That is our main goal, to support data communications station alerting so when we're dispatched we get alerted quickly and we catch the full dispatch without interruption And then, of course, the network for the station business and computer network.

I'll be available for questions. Thank you.

Yeah, just what is the two tone alert signal reception? What is that?

That is the tone alert is our on this specific station. It's our backup alerting. So when we get a call in the area and the fire department is dispatched right now it happens over IP over a network of data network, it's much faster, much, much faster The backup and the old way of doing it was through radio communication, which is tones sounds. And then followed by some voice voice commands so it does take a little longer to do the 2 tone alerting but it is extremely important that we have that 1 thing I really wanted to mention is from an IT and telecom perspective and I think really for the department.

We build our systems for the worst day. We don't build our systems for the best day, and this is part of the worst day. And we have to go to backups. We have a strong backup system ready.

Thank you.

Appreciate it. Thank you.

Then we have two more slides I'll bring Dave Kirby up to kind of talk about that station 21 now that's what the tower looks like on the roof and then we have another slide but this is Station 57 in Zomas. This this tower was done recently and that's what the new tower looked like off Lewis Road

Uh, thank you for having me today. I appreciate the opportunity so my role with the fire department is the facilities manager. So, my group is 1 that's responsible for design permitting construction all the way through and then communication with our it group making sure that we're meeting their needs. For our communication network. And so I just want to echo the statements made by Chief Cleary, which is it was something that we fell short on communicating with the city. Not only that but my group fell short speaking with him and making sure that he could come here to present those opportunities.

So we've already spoken internally. We're on the track of making improvements amongst all of our representatives in different cities But this project is one that these towers are typically constructed as part of larger, much larger projects and like new stations or we've done some grant funded federal ones as well. But as Sean had mentioned it's basically for the infrastructure purposes that were ready for that worst day. The existing tower that's on the facility now will be removed at the completion of this project.

And on the screen now you see, this is in Fire Station 57 in Somis. I chose this picture because it's very similar to Fire Station 21. It's also representative what you'd maybe see from the street when you drive right in front of the Ojai Station 21 So we have our tower in the back and as you can see the antenna on this one has been removed as well So this would be similar to what you'd be seeing at the completion of construction. I'm here as well if there's any more questions that come up, but I'll pass it back to Chief Cleary.

Thank you.

All right, so thank you guys. I'm really sorry to take this personally that this miscommunication occurred but I think in the end we all learn from mistakes right? That's how we get better and I think our processes within the fire department will get better for notifications whether it's with cities or unincorporated or as a board of supervisors but we fell short on this one and we wanted to be able to give you an opportunity to see what the tower looked like and tell you guys we made a mistake and we're sorry about that.

Thank you chief We're all striving to be better communicators. I'll speak for myself, any questions?

Yeah. Thank you for stepping up and admitting to what you did and wanting to make it better and to take the time to go through our goals and tactics and pick through what you hit and what you missed. Truly appreciate it so thank you for that.

Yeah, I do have a question. I think I know the answer but just out of an abundance of caution, I'm assuming this tower is only taking on your government function communications? There isn't going to be any type of private or commercial piggybacking onto your tower? I assume that was true, but I just thought I had to

ask. I think the only thing I've seen that might go on our tower sometimes is Ventura County Office of Emergency Services will put those alert cameras on there and so we have ability to move those and look at stuff. I know they've been looking at other towers that are higher. We just put one at Fire Station 27 in Fillmore. So in the future with their grant funding on cameras, that could be an option. But yeah, no commercial.

And it's 100%. So it's 100% government function?

Yeah.

And so I also will just Agree that you could have taken a much more flippant attitude about communications with us because I'm convinced from the reporting we got, I did a little bit of my own reading to verify. We have nothing to say about your installation of that tower but it certainly is helpful to have the communication for our planning purposes. So I appreciate you recognizing and acknowledging that we're going to be good at communication.

I also very much enjoy the relationship with you personally, and the fire department and and also our sheriff so I feel like it's all growing in the right direction. Thank you for that. Anything else?

I'll add one more thing. Yes, please. Just to piggyback on what everyone else said thank you so much for coming to talk to us for admitting that there's better communication that could have happened to think that something that we're all working on as a city and also i just want to thank you for the great job you're doing to protect our community um you know advancements like this while they might be alarming in some ways they you know they we ultimately know that your intention is To continue to find ways to be prepared in the event of an emergency. So I appreciate that

Thank you, all right,

thank you guys have a good night

I had no public comment cards for that item, but it was there anybody online that wish to speak Let's

double

check me. Okay.

Thank you. We have Zoom participants, but no raised hands.

Okay? Was there anybody out there that wanted to speak on this issue? Okay. Thank you for coming Thanks. Appreciate it Feel free to stay or go your choice Okay

Great thank you Mayor and we're going to, thank you Mr. Seibert, we're going to load the PowerPoint okay and I'm gonna first of all start by thanking Norma for putting all this together great job Norm is gonna walk through the PowerPoint presentation I might have some color commentary along the way then we'll take your questions and go out for public comment I want to call out what I think some of you already have in front of you. Norma has made sure you had a Jumbotron printout of the tactics so everybody can see and follow along, but we do also have them, I believe electronically if we need to bring them up on the screen that's just fine.

Just tell us if you want us to do so. We'll wait until we finish the presentation. No, we're not doing separate screens. You know what I mean? Make sense? Okay. So yeah, we're going to walk through the presentation if during the council discussion the council wants that on the screen, we will bring it up. But first we have a presentation. Yeah. Great. Ms. Cervantes please.

Thank you, Mr Harvey. So today we will give you a high level overview of the goals and tactics what we've completed what is actually underway and what we're preparing to bring back to Council so we have made significant progress and you will see that next slide please. So, here is a dashboard or really it's just showing what we've completed and what we have ongoing or in progress and not started. And over the course of the presentation, we will go more in depth as to what we have completed and in progress and ongoing but.

Really it's 73% is in progress, which means we will bring back some of these items back to council for direction completed. We brought those already back and ongoing are things like for housing that we are currently working on but there's just different projects that were bringing back

Let me just jump in. You may recall as we were on the journey to put these goals and tactics together, there were certainly a number of other projects and initiatives that we were working on that rolled up into your goals. We gave them away as freebies as you may recall some of them so I'll give you for instance under Climate resiliency, we had already signed a contract with Climatec for the citywide energy efficiency project. And we did not put that down as a goal but it certainly, or tactic excuse me, it certainly aligns with your goals and tactics. It's just not included here because it was already underway and we wanted to give you room for other items.

Thank you.

Perfect so next slide So this first one in affordable housing, it's really showcasing what we have in progress and what's ongoing. That ongoing item which is the workforce housing is just exploring the different options that's why it's ongoing. The other ones are in progress because we will bring those back in concept review in the next coming months and also the development of the ad hoc committee has been established so we're working on those items also.

Next slide. And for wildfire safety and risk management, so here all of them or two of them are in progress one hasn't started because um and that's the microgrids and undergrounding so that is that requires more in-depth work which we haven't started but the fire safe council partnership is in progress and we're making great headway with different partners or workshops that they have already done for And then the warning systems, this one is a huge deal. We're waiting for appropriation from the federal government which will earmark that $1 million. Hopefully we'll hear from that in the fall of this year and that's really just the sirens and message boards and just creating a multimodal system for the community so that we can be better prepared during emergencies.

Next slide. So arts, culture and recreation all of these are in progress and we will be bringing concept reviews for Bike Path to Soule Park. We will be bringing back the Kenton Hall dais behind the dais of all of you offer concept reviews But the biggest one is really the arts grant program, which has been our second year and really funding $100,000 and really showcasing to the community. What a great benefit the arts grant program is and how we can really partner with local artists.

And then the TOT nonprofit support, that is also on our working agenda which we will bring back as a concept review so you all can see the different options that we can provide with that for nonprofit support with the TOT money. Next slide. Infrastructure maintenance and improvements. So this also will be a lot of concept reviews and really bringing back what?

Like the paving right that is definitely something that was one of our top tiers for these goals and tactics And we will be bringing that back as soon as we have more information from public works to be able to bring that in seeing how we can really Speed up that timeline. Alternative materials is also something that Public Works is working on and really so in the next coming months again, we'll bring that back and parking strategy. That's Something that we will bring back seeing what is really feasible for the community and what we can do with our parking situation. So, that will also be a parking future agenda item. And for the bike trail, that's the most exciting because we are in preliminary discussions with the county seeing what we can actually do to connect all the way to Soule Park and seeing what Um, things we can partner with them and what we can do with our current funding.

And maybe looking at grant opportunities also next slide. Public safety. So this is a great one traffic Safety commission or public safety commission what convened its first meeting they're working on the speed hump policy They created an ad hoc which they will be meeting I believe next week on august 24th um, so those were The commission was established, the speed hump policy is in progress and the citywide speed study was completed earlier this year or last year to really jumpstart the Traffic or Public Safety Commission.

Next slide. So, diversifying the economy and tourism management. This is also an exciting 1 because the economic action plan is currently underway which will give us really an action plan that the city can work towards actually achieving it's not just something that will sit on a shelf somewhere. It'll be an actionable item that we can. Work with the council on once it is finished and.

The contractor didn't meet with the council members, the community business owners and things of this sort so they have they are currently working on it and they are including the business incubator model in their research. So they'll also bring back what what the options are for that. So in the next coming months, we will also hear about that and then revenue options. So one of that was one of the tactics and it was sales tax second home tax and just really exploring the tax concept so that's also on the working agenda for September that we will bring back with different options and ways that we can really look at what our options are.

Next slide. Climate resiliency, as Mr. Harvey stated we do have climate tech but this is adding really to that it's habitat restoration rewilding with will be bringing back the options energy efficient construction which is also something community development is also working on creating these workshops for the community and really provide these incentive concepts for the community and homeowners in the city And then again, alternative paving. This is something Public Works is working on to explore and seeing what the options are for us and really the cost associated with those.

Next slide. Financial stability, so these are all in progress and at different stages right the most exciting is that the reserve surplus policy is going to go with the to the Finance and Budget Committee September 23rd of this. So next month it'll go for review and then it will come to Council After their review, then the interactive budget reporting tool that is also going to be a concept that we bring back to council as finance is currently working on the research for that budget software.

And then the sheriff's contract. That's also something that we briefly discussed when we did bring back the contract services concept review that we brought back in July, so this is something that we will bring back in a more in-depth form later this year so that we can see what our current options are and what we currently are paying for. Next slide. And then communications and relationships. So we do have one that we haven't started, which is the community survey. And I think that is at the end. We can also discuss how we can either continue this concept or move it in a different direction. But we haven't started that one and the website evaluation IT and city manager's office are currently working on With our current provider and what that would look like if we were to update the website.

So, we would also bring that back so you all can work on with us to try to improve the website. And then the bi-monthly town halls next week is the first one that we will be holding for the public safety, to discuss public safety and immigration with Council Member Ruhl and Sheriff Fryhoff. So that's next Wednesday at 6pm here. The PIO and events manager currently I'm filling the PIO position and special events is currently being managed by Christy Rivera, the Parks and Recreation Manager And that's all of our goals. Next slide, we are here at this. This is really stating where we are right? So we have all of these things coming later this summer or even in the fall and that's just really giving you a quick snapshot of what's coming next.

Next slide. And that's it. But going back to the survey, I think that that is something that we can either discuss and work on after November so that we then put something out in January or we can discuss a whole new tactic. Right? And then also something that Mr. Harvey and a few of us spoke about was really maybe focusing on in the next couple months some real Items that we can actually achieve before November so that we can actually make some progress and complete those goals for this current council.

Thank you Norm. I just wanted to add in, I think the goals that the council selected are terrific they help ground us and move us in a unified direction depending on who comes back after the election that council if it's the same people if it is different people could elect to continue those goals with same tactics new tactics Um, you know, so who knows? But they are good goals in that they cover a lot of different areas that seem to have a lot of concentric circles amongst all of you. And we appreciate that and we hope that little things like the agenda reports having an item to align it to a goal. I appreciated the fire chief this evening using that in his discussion as well because it's our default. What should we be working on? Well, the council goals, of course.

That's what we should be working on. So tonight, in your discussion if there were a couple of tactics that were particularly important that you'd like to see some progress on before November we would appreciate that input. Thank you for your time.

Comments that I would like to let me

know let's do questions. We'll do a couple of public company have any questions first Okay, any questions for staff before I go forward? Yes, I do Rachel. Oh good Rachel goes first Rachel.

I just had one quick question so on the wildfire Uh, uh, wildfire safety and risk mitigation. I noticed on the spreadsheet it mentions pursue partner agreements to reduce fuel and hazardous debris but I didn't see an update about that. And so I was wondering in your presentation Norma and so I was wondering if there is any update on that progress?

We've started discussions with the Fire Chief and we need to complete that effort. The headline is when we really started to dive into it, this was with the Fire Chief, the Public Works Director and myself, the Chief kind of deftly pointed out some of the partnerships that we would need to achieve in order to really make some meaningful effort in the area because Fuel reduction certainly could take place within the city limits, and that could be helpful. But the bigger risk is the outer line areas and the threat to the city. And so we need to continue that discussion. Chief had lots of good ideas on how to do that but it's a bigger longer project

There's smaller examples too, such as the Green Coalition and the crew even just on this property. Right? So we did authorize that but then there's others where the Fire State Council does have goats going clear but it's often in the unincorporated area so it's not in the city because we don't have those kinds of fields. But yeah, so there is stuff I guess there are items that could be included in an update on this just so we can at least tally that. That's what I think your question was about

Yeah, absolutely. I just wanted to make sure that was happening Because when I saw it saying in progress and didn't hear an update about it I was just making sure that didn't fall through the cracks because it's really important. Thank you. That's all

yeah a question So

let's just take that issue as an example so if a councilperson is Has ideas, either from a community member or from their own thought processes about how to tweak one of our tactics. Or even maybe take a new direction, similar but new direction. What's the right process for doing that? Do we have to come back with a five-person meeting or... I don't

know. I would want to sit down with you and hear about it because these were put together with the best of intentions, right? But they were put together with committee and so you can kind of see that when you read them sometimes. They sound like a bunch of people talking And that doesn't always translate into something that's easy to implement. We could streamline it, I would very much like to hear your input because I think we could tune some of them up and depending on what it was yeah I would probably want to come back to the council ultimately and say hey here's this is from Councilmember so-and-so this is why we're doing this.

So process wise have a conversation with you And then you'll decide how

to move forward if at all. Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of these it's going to be minor things that we all live through those discussions and I know what the intention were mostly. We would welcome that.

I also have a question. Let's just take the bike trail agreement, my understanding is that there's kind of two components to that. One is the trail from the western boundary to Whispering Ups.

Yes.

And then there's a goal of whispering oaks to Soule Park.

And then there's a third component which has made it a little trickier, which is the Ojai Valley Inn as a project where it would be a lot easier if the city was in control of the bike path for them to be able to get that project reviewed and approved. And so it's kind of this other, and then the fourth part of it deals with maintenance costs and trying to give them, sorry, get the county to, and they're not being difficult. But we need like a rough order magnitude of okay what's the anticipated spend? What do we come back to the council and say if you want to do this here's what you're in for on the long term. Okay

and then my understanding is on On the whispering oaks to Soule Park and we're, we're not looking at going whispering out or. We're, we're looking as the most likely solution to go through Soule Park.

Excuse me, the

golf course.