Historic Preservation Commission Regular Meeting

Hello everyone, I'm calling the Historic Preservation regular meeting into order on Thursday March 12th 2026 at 6 p.m. We have public participation is encouraged the meetings are conducted in a hybrid model providing both in-person attendance and virtual public comment via the zoom link The virtual attendance via Zoom is the only way to remotely provide public comment. Pre-registration is not required via Zoom, hand raise functions to indicate your desire to speak on an item. The menu was also live streamed on the city's website and on YouTube and on Spectrum.

Okay, roll call please.

she running late? I can't

I'm

sorry, Ida

Commissioner Neeson

absent

absent Commissioner Moore here. Commissioner Walker here. Commissioner Aikens here. Commissioner be Sasha

here

Thank you. So we have the agenda here, does anybody have any changes or anybody want to make a motion to approve it? I move to approve the minutes. Anybody want to second it?

I'll second that.

Roll call please.

McCattin?

Yes.

Sims?

Yes.

Moore? Yes, Walker? Yes Aikins? Yes Bassascia? Yes

Okay, now we're going to go on to public communications. So this is the time set aside during the meeting for members of the public to address the legislative body on items of city business other than scheduled agenda items. Matters raised at this time may be briefly discussed by members of the legislative body and will generally be referred to staff and replaced on a subsequent agenda under state law other than for emergency items no action can be taken.

I believe we have Kathy Nolan here to speak in public comment.

Yes, thank you commissioners and staff. Kathy Nolan, I'm here representing the Ojai Valley Green Coalition and I just wanted to give you a little quick update on the City Hall Campus Master Plan project that we're working on. If you remember, I was here in November of 2025 and did a concept review And I wanted to let you know since then. Let's see we, I just met this week Tuesday night with City Council and did another review and then next week on the 18th I'll be going to Planning Commission with the project.

And I also wanted to say just to give you a little bit of update on how it relates to the Historic Preservation Commission, the items that we had looked at at the concept review were the existing pergola. Of course, the carriage house. There were some other smaller items but I think those were two of the big ones and we're still hoping that we can get the city to authorize a structural engineer to go out and look at the carriage house to look at the suitability or stableness of the structure.

So we're still hoping that we will be able to use it, but it'll of course be dependent on that. And then anything that we do there, of course, will be compliant with the landmark status of the property in that building. So I'm going to go ahead and open it up for questions. It looks like possibly old-growth redwood, but no matter what we do want to put another portal in. I'm not sure if it'll be right there or not. Ideally yes in that position and possibly even another area, but we want to the best that we can, and we've taken documentation and photos of the existing one, complement the one that was there.

So those are probably the two biggest items that I wanted to mention. Oh, and one other thing because we do have a proposal for a building on our master plan. We're affectionately calling it The Garden House and we're hoping to do it with alternative building materials and methods so that might be straw bale and cob but we want to definitely Once again, complement the existing structures on the property and City Hall for instance. So the color of the plaster even that the style of the roof and some of the members on the outside we won't be exactly copying it but once in again we're proposing to compliment it And then I also wanted to say, and I know you can't comment at this time but we are happy to take any direction from the Historic Preservation Commission.

And if you wanted me to come back and do an agendized presentation at any point in time, I'm more than happy to do that. Will be completed by May 31st of this year. That's the end of our contract on doing it So that's my my brief update, but I just wanted to keep you in the loop

Oh,

sure.

Yes, long time no see. The question I have is I believe the next tour is coming up the 21st? Yeah. Is that right?

And thank you for reminding me. So we have been conducting regular site tours on the property like on a Saturday morning 11 o'clock to 1215 and actually Commissioner Aikens has joined us and had the key to the carriage house so we've been able to let people go in and take a peek But I will be leading the one on Saturday, March 21st. If anyone's interested and wants to come you can register on our Ojai Valley Green Coalition dot org website or if you show up I will not turn you away without registering but I invite you to come it's informal but it's also informative. I think that's a good way of describing it yeah and then Commissioner Eakins?

Yes, as I understand it the master plan is an intention. What's the intention of the city long term for this property? And when you came to us before it seemed clear that most people really favored saving as many of the historic structures on the property as possible so when that finally comes that those work will be done and there's an actual project which there isn't now Then the HPC will have to do a work permit. We'll have to evaluate it and make a work permit based on historic preservation law and all the rest of it, so I hope that your intention, your master plan will show the preservation of these structures rather than removing the structures before we really have a project to decide on.

That was my feeling that we'd like to preserve as many of the historic structures.

I also would imagine that even before construction documents started, there will be conceptual designs for if we needed to modify say the pergola for example or if the interior of the carriage house and if we get to in fact use it Would actually be shared and brought back to you possibly as another Step in the concept process. So in other words, we've brought together the plan showing You know the general locations and what we would like to do there But the next step is then you know if the city authorizes it We would start developing Whatever we're doing there. So in other words, we'd probably would have an assessment for sure of the carriage house the pergola and then you know estimate based on having some professionals come out, like a general contractor and what have you and the structural engineer if we needed to do anything to any of the structures.

And of course following the guidelines for the historic landmark status of those. But I could imagine that we would come back or somehow collaborate with HPC to give like a progress check-in and get your input

As this goes forward. So my question to you is if you plan on wrapping up, your contract is till May 31st? Correct. So we have two meetings before then April and May. Do do we want to ask her to come back and so a meeting April or May to do a presentation

Well, I just need to get some clarity because right now we're doing a conceptual review. We're just giving our input on different things. Right. We're giving comments but that's not the work permit process.

Right,

that's later on. The work permit process is a little more stringent and so I would hate to have you leave and think well the HPC is okay with this or not okay with that when There comes a time when somebody says we're actually going to build something back there and the HPC has to evaluate it based on whether it detracts from the historic character of the property or

not. As a matter of fact, we're actually including a report with our master plan so a master plan report a document and And I may come back and consult with somebody, I guess it would be not at the meeting but on the side. I'll direct it through planning staff to look at the language that we could put in that document so that we are actually covering what you just mentioned and it's articulated correctly so that when that master plan hopefully gets passed onto whoever next will be taking up the design It will be acknowledged and agreed upon. And if the city council approves it, it's part of this legal

document. So my question is do we feel that this update is sufficient until there's an actual project? Or do we feel like we would like her to come back in and do a more

There would have to come a time when there was a final product that we could actually Base the decision on it. We'd have to make a decision I don't believe that would happen until there was actually a project

if I could just interject so so we can't direct Kathy Nolan to do anything right now because she's just giving us a report during public comments So and thank you for doing that and And something that was really made clear just now, but I think may not have been real clear before is that this is a master plan that will then be followed through with by yet another potentially another entity so Right Right which so then of course, you know work permits and and HPC review

Project

exactly

do sequel and all that

but

this for just an intentional.

This is exactly So we're at this is a conceptual a conceptual phase Still and then are the funds going to be? Granted to then follow through with it. So The HPC is not finished That's a for sure the HPC is not finished. Yes Yeah, so I just I want everyone to have heard what Kathy said regarding you know This is this is just the beginning of something that will be taken over by some Potentially somebody else was to follow through with this master plan Please

Are you going to hopefully continue on? I guess you don't know that at this time. You're such a valuable asset

Yeah, I have to meet again with the city manager And I know we have to go through the correct procedure on if it needs to go out to like an RFP or not so That's to be determined and I hope I get to do be involved with it I've so enjoyed being part of it from the get-go. So but even though well will do what's required Thanks

Yes, so I've heard with the pergola comments like we may tear it down. We may replace it with something that looks similar Personally, I would really like to have an effort made to save what's there? I don't know about the other people on the Commission but We'll just see what happens, I guess. But it's not – I don't really want to see that arbor. Are we talking about the same thing? Correct. I know it's very low but, I mean, just demoed.

Okay.

All right. Thank you.

Thank you. Okay and then we have Renee Roth.

Good evening, my name is Renee Roth. I've been a resident of Ojai for 25 years. I've attended many of the Green Coalition events. I worked on many work parties on the garden property behind us. I have cared about this. I have seen it go through many different iterations and I'm really concerned about what I am hearing tonight so I will try to just stay in my written comments First of all, the public record for the City of Ojai getting titled to this property started in 1973. Have any of you seen the trust deed and what the language says? The language is very clear. It says it's supposed to be for a public purpose, a public good and the city has the right to demolish anything on the property that it believes needs to be demolished. That is in the language of the trustee okay?

So, it basically says when you go to this being a gift to the city. This wasn't a casual gift. This took a long time. They took three years to describe how they wanted to give this to the city. The Secretary of Interior Standards, which you were supposed to be following when you designate historically significant property, governs landmark designation in the Municipal Code.

So I've read your resolution, Resolution 1744 very carefully. It only designates as historically significant objects of record on the interior and the exterior, and it notes the pictures and what specific things are designated as historic. You really need to go look at 1744, and you really need to stay within your resolution and the lanes of that resolution because I've been Obsessed with thinking about Kathy Nolan having to save a piece of concrete out there that was supposedly a miniature golf course water feature.

Ridiculous, that is absolutely ridiculous and the pergola out there it needs to be torn down it has outlived its useful life It is way too low. The water and the runoff have raised the level of people entering into the property, so if you want a picture take a picture but we really need structurally significant and historically significant pieces of the property to be saved. Please do not waste the city's time. The other thing is the carriage house. The carriage house is not even mentioned In your resolution, it specifically exempts any property other than the historic properties of this and then the other building and some stairway. That's it. It doesn't mention that you are exempting. It specifically exempted the carriage house And we have spent hours and days running the Green Coalition through this process of the historical significance of it, when it is not proper for you to do this with this property.

It is not proper. It is not the best use of the property or in the public interest to hang on to every little piece of structure. I'm sorry but I am just really opposed and offended That you think that is your job and your mission here. Thank you. Thank you.

Okay, is there any more public comment? How about online?

None.

All right let's move on to the museum representative report do we have anything?

Thank you, Chair. I have a text message sent to me by Wendy Barker, the Executive Director for the Ojai Valley Museum. As many of you may know we currently have a fabulous exhibit that's going on right now, The Power of Family and coming up this next Saturday or Sunday the 15th at 430 We have town talk that's Roots in Remembrance, The Power of Family Storytelling. And it's part of the Women of the Valley 100 Years of History and April 5th. And we have families that are coming from different parts of the valley.

One of them I know is coming from Thatcher. And so they will be there and talking about their family history, their genealogy and how I think they are acquiring that and storing it. So it's what I love. So we invite you in if you haven't been to the exhibit that's in place again, it goes until April 5th and it's wonderful.

Okay, thank you so much. Now we're going to go to consent calendar. We have the minutes of February 12th. Do we have any changes?

Sure. Yes. So if you go to page 404 and you go the second line there under adjournment.

The time?

Yes. I'm missing a number.

It just says 7 colon 3.

We live at.

I'm going to assume it's 730.

OK,

I can also look have staff check the check the video. Thank you.

Yeah. Besides that, I did not have any changes. Anyone else? Is there a motion?

Can I make a comment? There is no date mentioned on when you had your joint meeting with the city council and the minutes of the meeting.

These are action minutes, so you're not going to see that now, but

I'm sorry, these minutes are specifically for the February 12th meeting. And the minutes for the joint meeting would be with the council because that's actually a council meeting.

Okay, all right.

We don't... Yeah. I just

think you

should

have in the minutes of

the meeting when you met with them. But we didn't meet with them. They met... We met with them. So those were in the council minutes. Thank you.

There's no date in the meeting, so you can't go back and look based on your meeting with them when the council...

Right. Because it was a council meeting. It wasn't an HPC meeting.

Thank you. Thank you for your comment. So do we have a motion to approve the minutes?

I'll make a motion that we approve the minutes.

Thank you. Is there a second? I second. Want to have a roll call please?

McCanton?

Yes.

Sims? Yes Moore? Yes Walker?

Yes

Akins?

Yes

Basasha? Thank you. Now we are going to the public hearing of the section, and we are into the number two which is the sign permit for the Ojai Music Festival.

Thank you. My name is Maura Macaluso and I'm the Principal Planner for the Community Development Department and I am the liaison for HPC. And thank you Chair and Commissioners. This is a sign permit S26004 and it's for the proposed design change To a previously approved pennant and Chinese lantern elements for the Ojai Music Festival. Once they're approved, they can continue consecutive years and year after year. However there's a change this year and that's why it's before you.

So the signs or the pennants are to be displayed in each of the 27 arches in the landmark number five, The Arcade and also in the Libbey Park pergola that leads to Libbey Park. The pennants are two-sided, actually have one here, and the size is approximately 32 inches wide by 48 inches long. They're vinyl or a vinyl material. As you can see the colors here there are two shades of green at the background And also the swirl. And then this is actually it kind of looks white against the dark green, but it's a shade of gray for the lettering and we have a change in color for the Chinese lantern in your report or in the description and potentially in your report. It mentions a change in size There was a concern regarding the change of size.

But when I spoke with the applicant, they've actually decided not to do the change in size so the size would be the same that's been approved in the past. The difference is the color. It's a different shade of green that complements the new pendant. We do have the applicant here if you have questions that I haven't already answered. And you do have options with your conclusion. You can approve the project as it is, of course you can deny it. You can also ask for changes. I kind of thought that might happen with the size of the lantern however the size is no longer an issue. It's the same size that was approved previously.

There was another question prior to the meeting, and that was how many events per year put up these pennants. And in the last or since 2022 anyway, there have been either five or six events per year that have had the pennants and the pendants are up for a maximum of 14 days. So that's all I have. Staff is recommending approval of what's been submitted and presented to you tonight but again we do have the applicant here if they have anything to add to what I've said so if you have questions of me or them

anybody speaking in public comment to this item online

No.

OK, then I'm going to close public comment and does anybody have any questions for the applicant? Or do you want to ask the applicant or you just want to speak to the item?

I don't have any questions except I thought we would be getting a sample of the color of the lantern.

That's it. That is.

That is the new one? This is

the new one.

OK.

It will be the old size which is a larger size than this but that's the new color.

But it's not larger than what was previously approved.

Well, I'll just start by saying I've given this a lot of thought. I have been very involved in this community for more than 65 years. Involved festivals over the years with family. I do not think we should continue on with these lanterns Think it is an art installation. I think the pendants are fine But I do not think the lanterns are appropriate. I think that It is just not in keeping with what has been before 2011 and in fact in the rules of what were adopted back in 2015, it actually states Penant policy allows for only penance and nothing else.

Flags, lanterns or other decorative items are expressly prohibited unless previously approved and at such time that design is proposed for redesign shall be allowed to be displayed. So since you are asking for a completely new application of all of this I do not agree with these. And I also would like to know the pergola Where are they hung in the pergola? Because this only discusses the arcade, and I don't think they're appropriate there either.

Hi, my name is Anna Wagner. I'm with the Ojai Music Festival. In response to the pergola it's on the main arch that goes where the cross street is. It's that arch is where it's hung.

And do these then continue? Like I believe in the past these lanterns continue on into the park directing you down to the bowl

We do have them on stakes and poles as they lead into the park. Are you changing that color too? Yes.

Okay, I don't... I'll leave it to my colleagues to discuss, but again, I don't like any of this art installation. I like the pennants as they've been for years prior to the revamp of The Bull and I believe that is why it was approved in 2011 as a celebration of that. So now you're asking for a complete new change in both the lantern and the pennant

Anyone else? Do you have any questions or can the applicant say...

Oh,

questions. No.

I'm

actually going to have more. I don't know if you have

a comment on that before I respond.

Well my first thought is that I would need to look into what's happening over in Libbey Park because that's not That may be, that's under the music festival permit. As part of

our rental.

Right and so I think that we are probably limited to talking about the arcade.

And the

pergola. So it and I would definitely look into that as well The fact that you're coming before the HPC with a change and we have a new application, the HPC does have the authority to not approve the lanterns. Which would mean it's a whole new application so therefore lanterns wouldn't be allowed if that were the vote tonight. You've heard from one commissioner, so.

Okay. Does anybody have any questions for the applicant while they're standing? No. Thank you. Okay thank you. Does anyone have any more comments?

Well, I would agree. This is a pennant policy when we were set up to allow pennants as decorations for events held downtown and the festival's a sure one that would apply to have these pennants up to advertise it and the signage on the pennants is a little avant-garde and different from what I think was intended but I think that represents what the festivals is about So I don't have any problem with the penance, but I do have to respect the fact that this is a penant policy and it does say that there should be no other objects.

I just think when this starts going then other people may want something else and then pretty soon we're gonna have to have our jury to decide if it's artistic or not. I think that I would prefer going to what has traditionally been done and done by every other applicant who has pennants up. It's just have the arcade arches with pennants and the two arches across the street on the pergola, and I think that should be great.

I don't want to speak to the Libbey Park because that isn't really a part of what this application is for, but that's my feeling.

Anyone else? I

have a question. Yes. I'm a little unclear were the lanterns part of this approval previously?

Back in 2011,

it was what happened is they came in and they were having a special occasion I think. And they asked if they could do this as an exception to put these lanterns up that would go into the park. And so the HPC at that point said okay you know it's your 60th anniversary or whatever it was back then But I don't think the intention was to change the policy and make it so that people could put other—I think it was an exception for that one event, but then there is also a statement in here that as long as they don't change it they can keep going with it. So that happened, but now we are in a situation where do we want to make this open to other things hanging or do we want to keep it with the penance which was the intention?

And if I could just interject, I just want to remind the Commission that well not remind you but to say that staffs recommendation for approval Includes language that it's its temporary It's for two weeks and it and I don't think I wrote this in here But it has been going on for consecutive years and At this time, the change that they're asking for is for color not size.

That would complement the new banner which again is temporary and so if Anyway, I just wanted to restate. I just want to

follow the guidelines that were set up.

Right. And my thing was that it's since there was an exception made and they have been doing this continue continuously since 2011. It's not a new application coming before you that you've never seen before. You do have the authority Since it's coming before you tonight to deny it, I'm not saying that. I just want you to keep also in mind that it was approved by the HPC at one time and it has been continuous for all of these years and no other applicants have asked for decorative elements. I just wanted to give you facts That's it. Thank you, thank you.

Can you bring that lantern up here? Is that the size? That's very...

This is the existing size.

But that's the color. No, that

was the color. It's an old color in the existing size. This is the current color that we're

wanting to move to and we would be hanging them

I have a question. I haven't, I mean I've seen this every year because I work for the city. But this size that's in this picture is that the existing or is that the proposed? That would be previously proposed until tonight because you were asking for

four.

This is the new size okay so this picture then is inaccurate it's a smaller it's four inches all around small. It's that

it's the dark green color In that size exact same size, which is actually smaller than what's proposed in that picture

Don't have right now is a picture of what it has looked like since 2011 All I have

is is this

But it's essentially that. Right, I think that the comments that I've heard is that this lantern looks really large and this lantern is perhaps a four inch larger and four inches is a lot so I think in the picture if this were 4 inches smaller it wouldn't look this... It would look 4 inches smaller.

Thank you. So how I feel about it is we have been talking about City Beautiful Principles, the intention of Libby, the downtown and compliance issues with storefronts and art installations that have popped up and are still hanging there. I feel like everyone, if the body that needs to lead on this is not following the guidelines then it's a hard argument to say what's art? What's not art? What should be hung? What can't be? That's my biggest concern. I know this has been going on for many years but Lot of things have kind of slipped and gone on for many years And so that's just something that I feel like it's pretty clear when it says it's for penance and for nothing else and It mentions, you know not to have lanterns. I know that a previous There was a reason years ago that it happened but since then if you walk down the arcade and you see what's happening there and the problems and the controversy of all the The things that are being placed there, everyone thinks what they're doing is fine.

The gesture art installation that he calls an art installation, he believes that's art, he believes that's fine. The people with the orange bench thought that was good and so Good and and I'm with the gesture. Yeah, he was he had comments about everyone

else Let's not talk about other specific projects,

please. Thank you. I think we get into How do we since we're talking about the arcade and we're talking about The problems that were having with people being in compliance how do we say? Oh, well We made an exception here And so then it's like, well, you should make an exception for this because it's an art installation. And if we stick with just the penance, then we are sticking with the mission of the penitent policy for the arcade in Libbey Park, I mean, Pearl.

And personally, I think it looks fine. But I can't be personally, personally, I love the lanterns but that doesn't mean that it's what it says we're allowed to do here and so I feel like we have to take our personal opinions out and look to what it says that we're supposed to be in compliance. That's kind of where I'm at but anyone else?

I have a question, another clarification. So this application is not for the lantern it's for a change in the color to the lantern is that correct?

That's correct. We're updating we have a brand refresh because we're now turning 80 and so part of it is the the pennant and the lantern everything that we've done since 2011 stays the same but there's it's an update to the colors into the design of the pennant So we were really hoping that what was honored in 2011 would with that that you would allow us to continue to do What you have approved you approved more than? 15 I realize that your rules have changed in 2015, but we're asking for an update on what was already approved back in 2011. Thank you. Well it's a fine point but isn't that a fine point that's important?

I mean, the application is for the color not

the lantern. No it's for the package and we have a guideline that says this is what you should be having an exception was made in 2011 so now we're trying to decide should we give that exception again because when they apply again it's like a new application. Oh I see. So it seems to me that if If the public feels that would be important to revisit these guidelines, we can certainly put that on our agenda and have a meeting in which we ask the public if they make a decision as to what the guideline should be.

But right now just simply say well we're not going to follow these guidelines then you might as well just scratch that one off. And say that doesn't exist, and then anybody can bring any art installation in that they want. And it's going to be hard for us who are interested in the buildings and keeping that integrity to them. To say well we don't like your balls but these are okay and we don' t like your whatever.

You know what I mean? It's just we're gonna have to have a jury that's going to decide what would fit, whereas what we have here is pretty simple and straightforward. At some point in the history of Ojai it was decided that penance would be nice for events held downtown and I agree totally. that they should be down there. I think it adds something to the events, but I think what was decided on back here in 2015 was penance and there was this exception made because of a special event that they were having But I'm hoping that we will still follow the guidelines that we have.

And if they want to, for a future time, bring back and have the public decide to change it then we can have that conversation.

I would like to take a three minute recess please.

Okay

thanks. Can you just stop the meeting for three minutes? Ida, please stop the meeting for three minutes. We're taking a break.

Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Okay, so maybe we

can see...

19 years ago.

Okay. Okay.

Okay.

I just want to

make sure

Okay.

It's a landmark

designation that has to be,

just because it's old and a piece of concrete laying in the dirt doesn't mean