Historic Preservation Commission Regular Meeting

Commission regular meeting on Thursday, July 9th 2026 at 6 p.m In the Ojai City Hall Council Chambers Can I'd like to have a roll call please?

Chair mccatton here vice-chair Sims here commissioners Neeson here Commissioner Aikens your commissioner Walker your commissioner Moore. Yeah, Miss Sasha

here

public comment that's not related to what's on our agenda tonight? OK, we'll close public comment and we'll go to museum report.

I'm sorry if I can interject real quick, I'd like to introduce the attorney that's going to be sitting with us tonight. He's actually online and his name is Cody Parker. Hi, Cody.

Hello. Hi, commissioners. My name is Cody Parker. I'm an associate with Al Shire and Winder. And I am actually your deputy city attorney as well. It's nice to virtually meet everyone tonight.

Nice to meet you. Thank you for being here. Yes. Thank you, Cody. Now the museum report?

Okay, I needed just that amount of time to find it. Thank you all. From the museum our Chumash interpretive garden looks better than ever thanks to Julie Tumamai Stensley, Lani Kaufer and Savera Laura. There is new signage and it's featured on our website with photos and info about how the Chumash used each plant. And also QR codes. Gotta have the QR codes that will just, you know, open up all this information so there's a QR code for each plant.

Another month of Ojai Mustique exhibit one that we're doing now with nationally internationally known artists that come here to the Ojai Valley and paint landscapes from what they see Think I mentioned this before that they now have a nice map. That's there that in case you can't figure out where it's at You can go to the map so That exhibit Ojai Mystique is ending August 9th, and we do have a fabulous Exhibit that's being geared up for the end of it close out the year and Every one of us will want to be there Truly, love letters from 100 plus years ago on the people who lived here when it first started.

So thank you all very much.

Thank you. Now we go to our consent calendar. We have our item number one which is our minutes. Does anybody have any changes to make?

Yes, on the back of the first page under item 3, under Commissioner Walker explained about CEQA. I was giving a report on that and that last sentence in that paragraph says properties do not need to be studied further if owner does not want to do so And it's a little more complicated than that. So I feel like that summary might give a false impression, so I'm just wondering if we could get rid of that sentence. I don't think it's necessary.

OK, interesting.

I was just reading the rest of the paragraph real quick

I think the

intention of that was that if a person, let's see.

That we were talking about the survey and the point of the survey is just to identify places that are potentially historic. And that it doesn't require the owner to do anything at that point unless their property comes before the city for a remodel or a demolition, and in that case but it's complicated because it would depend on what they were doing a whole bunch of other factors, so I just feel like that last sentence shouldn't be there.

I think that the stating what the CEQA process is for was really the intent and yeah we'll scratch that last sentence.

I think in order to explain that sentence you'd have to write a whole other paragraph.

Right which isn't the intention of the minutes these days so okay perfect

If you want to understand it watch the Watch that item because Craig does a really good job of explaining something. That's pretty complicated so Very simply, that's the advantage of having this school a school teacher on our Commission approval. Okay, we have one With that change I'll second okay. Can we have a roll call, please?

Neeson We did it a different time or is it really a whole year since we've done

this? It seems

like we just... Well,

we gave the awards out in January.

Yeah, everything was one month late last year. But this is the time that we start to process it because it takes a couple months to get it done. Do

you have a staff report?

Yes, so this topic item number two is the Annual Historic Preservation Awards for 2026. I'm sorry there's a bug. Sorry. So each year the commission identifies individuals organizations or projects that should be recognized for the annual Historic Preservation Award, and the annual award honors those who have made a significant contribution to the historic preservation or restoration of Ojai's unique historic and cultural heritage. The award may be upgraded to a lifetime achievement status in the case of an individual who has made outstanding long-term contributions.

The goal is to grant the award at a City Council meeting in December—that's why we're starting now— A copy of the annual award criteria and procedure is attachment a starts on the Would be The next the next sheet in your packet staff recommended that the Commission identify potential recipients to allow adequate time for the commission to gather information and For the preparation of the biographies that are prepared for each individual It's anticipated at that at the next meeting. That would be in August The Commission would nominate recipients and request staff to bring back To this September meeting a resolution making a recommendation to the City Council to ratify its decision the City Council needs to ratify the recommendation in October or November meeting in order to present there were award in December So staff is requesting that the Commission identify one or more candidates for the 2026 award and there's a table On the opposite side here.

That's been provided as a guide for your selection Thinking that all of the commissioners here Maybe we're here last year for this No, we have one that was not So the criteria is on page one of attachment A and then page one of seven, attachment B has previous awardees. And with that I'm going to turn it over to you to start your discussion.

Thank you. So, would anybody like to discuss anyone that they have been thinking about?

I would actually. Yes. So we have a wonderful executive director for the Ojai Valley Museum who judiciously has cared for what I've always said as the heart and soul of the Ojai Valley with all Keepsakes that multiple generation, multiple peoples have done and always finds a creative way to put it out where people can see it. Where people can read it or people can ask questions and she's done that now for 11 years I think she's done a very fine job so I would like to recognize her on an annual award for that Wendy Barker.

Sorry.

Anyone else?

Yes, I'd like to consider Drew Mashburn who has written numerous articles about Ojai history. A lot of them through the lens of his own childhood and he hasn't been doing that presently but he did it over a period of two to four years just a few years ago through the Ojai Valley Museum So I can't believe he's been missed up to this point. But I would like to nominate him.

Mara, could we get the criteria as well? Oh.

Sure. Well… So if you look at this and you'll say like 1-5-4 so do you know which ones would be for Drew?

Well, I wasn't I wasn't prepared to name that off

but just For all the commissioners. I was thinking about that actually when I started the presentation for this item That if you didn't Thoroughly read your packet before tonight then you might not be prepared to do this this evening and which case If somebody's nominated tonight, you're going to go back and for the next meeting you're going to come back with a paragraph. It's basically a biography for this person and at that time if you don't have it this evening, at that time you'll need to go through those criteria and they'll have, you'll have to figure out which criteria do they qualify under? If they don't then, you know that then you don't have a person but it's okay if you don't have the criteria this evening You'll need to bring it back with your biography at the next meeting You'll be following through with after this meeting is coming back next meeting with a biography

Okay. Well I put a bunch of research into his biography so I'd say number four

Okay

Okay, so for Wendy Barker who we sneaked out of down south after 16 years. Number one preservation of historic resources through conservation and or restoration of a historic building site more through the conservation. Item number three, interpretation of historic properties as seen often on the displays. Number four, historical research. You're going to love the closing exhibit for this year. We'll talk about historic research. Design and planning efforts to preserve historic properties We have Wendy working with Roger, always a great combo. And Grassroots Organizational Efforts in Historic Preservation, that one may be a reach so I'm okay with X-ing that out.

So 1, 3, 4 and 5.

Does anyone have anyone else? Yes.

I'd like to put forward Brady Hahn, who did an excellent exhibit at the Ojai Valley Museum on the women of the Ojai Valley. She did quite a bit of research. She didn't necessarily pick the obvious choices like Josephine Pierpont or Or Annie Bessett or people like that, but more of a different level of woman who made a contribution over the years and put together a great exhibit. So Brady Hahn I would say of four And then I also would put forward Jim and Rob's because every time I go in there, I love seeing all the photographs that they've decorated their walls with. I always learn something new and I think how can we get a copy of that for the museum? So they've really done a lot of – and I think all the people that come in and see Sit there and eat, they get a real immersion in Ojai history.

And then for a lifetime I know he was chosen as an annual award in 2013 but Brett Bradigan has over the years contributed so much in the area of Ojai history through the various articles, many of them that he's written himself about Ojai and its history. So I would suggest possibly him as a four as well. And Jim and Robs would be a four.

Okay. Good list there? Anyone want to add anything to that?

Okay, so what the Commission will do then is write up their biographies and if the biographies could be to staff We'll send out an email give you a date please a deadline to get them to us So they can get into the next packet. And so everyone will have an opportunity to review it and then you'll discuss it at the next meeting and Sometimes there's one, and sometimes there's more.

And you'll vote on each of them.

So at the next meeting we could narrow it down to one or two?

Exactly. It sounds like we have one lifetime for historic preservation awards. But one

lifetime. Five?

There are five?

I think so. It's Wendy Drew. Oh, Brady and Jibin Robbs. No, you're right. It was four.

Wendy Drew?

OK. Would you please, Commissioner Walker, spell the last name of Brett, I think you said?

Oh, B-R-A-D-I-G-A M, I believe. Is that right?

Bradigan?

Mm

hmm.

And I think his first name just has one T. Is that correct?

So since you are bringing forth three, I can do Jim and Rob's if you'd like me to.

OK. I'll do Brady and Brett.

And then Brian, you'll do Wendy? And we'll do Drew? Yes. OK?

And I will contact you privately about Jim and Rob's because this information is not completely accurate.

Oh, OK.

Okay.

Great, okay we're going to go on to item number three. We don't need to do anything else with that right? Okay item number three is the Nordhoff Grammar School Maintenance and Protections of Historic Landmark Number 24. Do we have a staff report?

Yes, so the recommendation which I'll give before the discussion is After this after the staff presentation that the Commission discussed the maintenance preservation and protections The city can engage in for landmark number 24. That's for the Nordoff grammar school located at 414 East Ojai Avenue and So vice chair Sims Requested this item be added to the agenda and Commissioners Aikens and Moore seconded that request. This was at the last meeting And provided here in your staff packet we have City Council resolution number 1750 And the resolution includes objects of record and states that any proposed changes, additions, renovations or alterations to the features shall be subject to the Secretary of the Interior's standards regarding alteration to historic structures and will also require a work permit.

Any alteration to the exterior of the original Nordoff Grammar School's Arcade Grammar School building specifically the portion facing Ojai Avenue, the lawn area in front of the arcaded Grammar School building facing Ojai Avenue and the chaparral auditorium along Ojai Avenue including doors windows roofs and Exterior walls and any alteration of the character defining elements described in this resolution That exist in these three designated portions of the property would require a work permit by A review and consideration of a work permit by the Historic Preservation Commission furthermore pursuant to the municipal code Section four eight two two which is the duty to keep in good condition the owner or occupant? Or any other person that's in charge of a landmark or contributing structure in within a district shall keyword Shall keep in good condition all of the exterior portions of such a landmark or contributing structure within the district.

The code assigns the duty of enforcing this section of the code to the building official and or the code enforcement officer. And so your packet goes on, the staff report is a little bit more detailed than my presentation. And you have the resolution in your packet along with other documentation regarding the school and I'll open it up to you for discussion and of course I'm available for questions.

Do we have any questions for staff before I open up to public comment? Yes.

Yes, the code actually says too that any work that's being done on a landmark or on a building on a landmark property needs to get a work permit. Isn't that correct? So it's not just the landmark itself but if it's on a parcel that contains a landmark, it also needs to get a work permit because that could influence or affect the landmark itself

So the language that's right here was taken directly from. From the code, like literally verbatim. What what is the number on that? Do you know? We have the duty to keep in good condition is 4822 and penalties are 4824 Let's see. I think that so specifically the question was maintenance and protection of this particular landmark, and so this is what I've provided as a response to you. As far as other code sections, I don't have the code in front of me right now.

I was just going to quote the section of code says that

approval of a major... Can you state the

code? It's under major and minor work permits, but I don't have the number here.

It's 4-8.20. It says

approval of a major work permit by the Historic Preservation Commission or the Council on Appeal She'll be required before any of the following actions may be undertaken for a landmark landmark property or historic district

So that would be a landmark or Landmark property.

No, it says a landmark landmark property Yes, so it's

so sometimes there's all it's

all of those

Sometimes there's landmark property and sometimes there's a landmark building and usually specific in the resolution for that particular landmark

Yeah, no I think it's the landmark or any parcel and that's also true for the section on the demolition by neglect. It says that any building on a parcel that contains the landmark so The law is inclusive of other buildings that are on the parcel because they're part of the landmark property

Part of your packet also includes the specific resolution for this property and says specifically what needs to get a work permit. And with that, I'm going to leave it up to you to have your discussion regarding the item.

Possibly we could get the attorney to look it up and give us an answer.

Right now we're doing questions to the

staff. So again, we have an attorney here. You're

free to address the attorney.

I guess my question is it seems that by Commissioner Walker's comments that he is going beyond in diverting from the item and the item on the agenda was the proper keep of a current landmark Now as for the permit, I have questions on whether that permit is in place when the property is not owned by the city. As it has in this case, it's owned by the school district who has its own rights that go with being a school district property and its own requirements for doing any kind of permit that we're talking about they may initiate in order to do so.

I know I've got a former council member that's scratching his nose, that may have an answer for that. But again it seems like and I was around for every meeting when we first started this landmarking so I'm a little sensitive to the essentially property rights And controls and guidance that go along with that. And then also again, I think we're straying far beyond what we're supposed to be discussing at this time.

So do you have a question? To him or you just wanted it?

Yeah my question is are we straying for the far along than where we should be according to what the agenda says tonight

I don't think so. The agenda says maintenance and protection of Historic Landmark No. 24, the Nordhoff Grammar School. Certain work would require a permit, so I think discussing permit criteria is within the scope of the agenda item.

Thank you.

And that takes into account the rights that are Inherent in this being a public school property. That's controlled by the state of California and they're Probably the Department of Education and their own guidelines that go with school properties that are School properties rather than made available, you know as though they were given up that property I mean giving up their rights

Yes, considering that the property owner would be the school district and or the state of California. Then yes it's fine to be talking about the property owners rights in this instance.

So Cody this is for you but as well as the commission. The resolution speaks specifically to what requires a work permit for this particular landmark so I think what's happening is we have a resolution that states what requires a work permit for this landmark, and then we have a code that's stating that a work permit would be required for landmarks, landmark properties, thus and such. And so, does the resolution for this particular property hone in and specify what requires a work permit for this particular property?

Looking at the resolution now. Thank you.

Can I ask that we start to have a discussion, and then we'll see if it goes there. And you could always rein us in and stop us if you think we're crossing lines? I

think we should narrow it from the beginning. I have another question for staff too when we have a moment.

So I will just say, though, that staff's understanding is that we follow the resolution and the resolution is specific as to what requires a work permit. And it has to do with three different areas of. Of the school property and section. Attachment A page three of 15 Section one states what it is that. That has been designated has been designated as such. And since this came up like right at the beginning of the discussion as a question, it's okay with me if the commission moves on to start discussing it except it may need to be answered.

I don't know if it's going to be something that takes over the conversation. If it does, then we can stop and we can ask for assistance. But it may not. And I don't think we know where it's going to head yet. So maybe we can see the direction it goes first, if that's OK? Staff is OK with that? OK.

Again, I have a question for you. Sorry.

It does appear the resolution does hone in on the specific areas of the grammar school that require a work permit. So if there is work happening at the school, perhaps not dealing with the characteristics or areas of the school that are protected then it might not need a work permit. Does that answer your question?

Thank you. Well, what we have is we have an HRR that clearly states that the entire campus is historic and can be state national. I mean it's a whole campus for an outside organization that was hired by the city. The HRR states that it's all historic We have one councilman who was on during that time and we have Commissioner Aikens who was a commissioner at that time.

And we know what happened is what the Council chose to pick some of the buildings, but it wasn't like they were saying the rest of the buildings weren't historic this was just what they chose to landmark at that time in 2017. The idea was at some point in time they could come back and And landmark the rest. So it is, the HRR talks about the entire property so I don't want to be held back to not talk about the entire property if it comes up because it's in the HRR.

But I think that one thing I would like to say just getting started on this is the whole reason why we wanted it on here is because we want to be of help and of service and of education, and to the school district to try and help. To try and see what's happening and see how we can assist not to go down to the you know Call the sheriff. I mean, that's not our intention. Our intention is what we can do to help and so I think that as free as we can and not be as rigid would be helpful right now because like I said, we're here to help.

Okay? Okay, so

my question to the staff is again this is looking through This attachment And going to the sections which we also called out Four dash eight point two to duty to keep in good condition Okay, I agree that the only question I had on that it says Under item B. It says it shall be the duty of the building official or code enforcement officer to enforce this section Do we know if that's taking place at all?

With with is it taking place on this building right now yes, so We We have very limited staff, okay and we have historically been Reactive as opposed to active and We are so we're transitioning from being reactive to proactive with that We do not have the staff To go in individually like look at buildings and to see if they are in disrepair or need repair. So Since we are in transition, but even if we weren't in transition, even if we were proactive. If we weren't to see something, if we were alerted through my Ojai then our code compliance officer would have to go out to a site to see what was happening.

So does that answer your question?

It does answer my question however-

And so are we actively looking at this site right now? No.

Okay Thank you for the net answer. I know on a project within a historic district that's the term unit district that I and our church in the neighborhood had cleaned a Location a house within that historic district and that was where I met max Okay, code enforcement person when he first came on board

So I'm just doing this because I want to make sure we stay on topic so yes there We have active code compliance, absolutely. I'm the supervisor. However again we are transitioning from being reactive to proactive but even if we were 100% proactive we don't have the staff to go out looking at historic buildings at this time.

Okay I understand what you're saying so basically you're saying that the code is here

but

we don''t have enough people do to do the code?

Correct. However, however we are still reactive and if we had somebody alerting us through my Ohio to some just something going on a landmark property, we would address it.

Okay, okay. I love the word alerting because my next question is and I know what the answer is because when I saw this last Thursday I knew who I was gonna talk to you as quick as I could so I have actually talked to I've talked physically to the superintendent of schools, Cheryl Knox. I saw her at the Brown Bag and informed her that she knew about this before I did. I also talked to Kevin Olson who was essentially the business person And no one had informed the school that this item was coming before us in this meeting, let alone.

And the other thing that I really find troublesome is section 4-8.24 enforcement and penalties which maybe at the end of the discussion or we'll get it on a future thing is I think this should be struck because Sending someone, a city attorney to institute any necessary legal proceedings.

Chief of Police. That would be like way far down the road after working with somebody for probably years and assisting and holding hands and helping and cleaning So this needs to be in the code to protect the city, but that's something that's really far down the road. The commission asked for this item to be on the agenda tonight so it's on the agenda tonight.

for you to discuss and I just want to repeat if If somebody were to put to submit through my Ojai anything going on in the city Code compliance would have to go and check it out

It's a struggle because I have had many people over the years And I've told them about my Ojai and they've never heard of it It's hard to engage people to get them to do that. I don't know It's very available

on our website and if they call up the city we actually walk people through it or we do it for them. The staff, we have got Sherry and Ida at the front counter five days a week and if somebody calls in or comes in they will put it into my OHI for them They don't even have to know how

to

do it

think they're supposed to come to the commissioners and I think that we've all had well in Yeah, people

talking to me It has to go through the right channels in order to get on onto code compliance officers desk

Yes So I've used my Ojai couple a few times and recently I took a picture of The bush out here that's a very tall hedge, and I asked for it to be looked at and to be cut down to the level of the other hedges. And I don't know who looks at the My Ojai things but my response was from the staff, I guess, to me was that the building was unrecognizable and they didn't know where this was.

So it's

so it's so I would I would love to talk to you about this after the meeting and you can show me You can either physically show me where it is or give me a picture It's also not on the agenda tonight really to talk about my Ojai I just want to make sure that the commissioners as well as the public who are listening tonight that my oh Hi is the way in And it doesn't get ignored if we can't. So anyway, thank you. Please please don't use cell phones at the meeting Can I? You want to ask a question? I would like to ask the attorney a question,

please.

Yes.

As a commissioner, a public commissioner here, we are tasked with maintaining the properties, the landmarks in this city. This is what we're tasked with protecting them, overseeing them and I am wondering as a commissioner if we as commissioners don't have the right to ask the city to look into matters like this? Why do I have to go onto my Ojai and do this when I am a commissioner? And I've been asking for this for almost two years So

the, I'm sorry Cody.

Can

you give, can I have an answer please? The commission is not able to assign staff work that has to go through council. Okay

well let me then ask you this question. This has been landmarked for many years How do you determine what is important to go out and look at or even what is important to the city? This is an important building. It's more important than some of the other things that you all as staff do, and I am wondering how after so many years Nobody has bothered to look at any of this. So how do you prioritize what is important? Please, if you have

an issue with a historic building or anything in the city including a hedge please submit it to my OHI.

Well I need his answer to my question because I don't think that's appropriate.

I'm going to agree with Maura on this one. The commission can assign work to staff.

I'm not asking them to assign it, I'm asking them to maybe put it on an agenda or something. Why am I even here then? Why are we here if we have no power and no control over anything? And it goes to the city and what are we good for? Can you answer that? We're tasked with a job And we can't do our job unless we have help doing it. And if the help doesn't have time to do it, what are we supposed to do?

Like Maura was saying, code enforcement responds to various complaints. They can't go around checking everything so that is it's important to make sure people know about my Ojai like you're discussing and the commission does have power we were just talking about the permitting power the commission does have. So there are mechanisms that any things that the commission needs to hear such as work permits major work permits for landmarks.

Yeah. Can we go to public comment now? Everybody okay with that? I've given my presentation, thank you. Okay, Mr. Weyrich and do you have the timer?

Wow, deja vu. It warms my heart to see a full complement of fully engaged commissioners on the Historic Preservation Commission again. Thank you for your service. Mr. Weirich please state your name. Bill Weirich? Okay. Context I wanted to provide. This originated in a time when there was a fair amount of, let's just say tension between the city of Ojai and the school district over the adaptive reuse to a commercial use which was what was in people's minds.

And there was an issue of what the appropriate partnership and jurisdictional balance was. There was an opinion by the, there was an attempt by the school district at the time Long time ago, not the current people I want to emphasize because much better relationship now I believe. To go along with a change in the general plan to eliminate any city involvement or jurisdiction with the change to a commercial use of this building including the possible complete demolition.

And so the city did not go along with that and then so there became, you know it turned out that we found out that legally it's the nature, the particular change in use under the particular circumstances create more fluidity in terms of jurisdiction. It's not black and white. And then there are statutory changes about housing that have come down the pike and so on and so forth. So it's a degree of a fluidity. Well what we did and I was a proponent of it at the time was this commission recommended The city funding, without the request of the ownership, an historic resources study. First time I believe ever that happened. Craig you can correct me if I'm wrong and that was very important precedent to set, I believe because it The commission set an historic record and then that historic resources report made a couple of really good points.

One, how historic the whole situation was including a building that had been, previous historic building that had been demolished for basically financial reasons to put in the Chaparral School to begin with. The extent to which the mission revival architecture was part of the whole effort at the time The fact that there was a tower that was meant to complement the post office tower at the time architecturally, which turned out to have been neglected and deteriorated and had to be demolished.

So there were a lot of reasons to say well you know why don't we do the historic resources report And then that justified landmarking with the issue of jurisdiction somewhat fluid, of course, between two public agencies. But that was the initiative that this historic commission took, recommended to council and I was a proponent on council for funding the Historic Resources Study and going ahead with the landmarking. And you're absolutely right, the historic resources study in my nine seconds left justified everything.

A portion was done for reasons of trying to work as well as we could at the time while preserving character of the city. So thank you.

I have a question for you Mr. Weyrich. Can you come back to the podium? Was it, in your recollection, was it the intention to eventually go back and look at the other buildings?

Yes. Well, the intention of the commission at the time and certainly the intention was to review that particularly depending on the future course of what happened with the development arrangements. And there certainly was a feeling that the entire U in particular was a unified architectural part of the character But there was also sensitivity to the what was going on with the you know The situation of the school district and said well at least it's important on the front edge, but that was basically You know I I don't think I'm misrepresenting at a time But that was the frontage was important a bit of a compromise to just do the front edge There was a lot of tension at that time between City Council and they end the school board So it was an attempt to be Accommodating to the nature of the times.

Thank you

III think that's accurate.

Does anybody have any other questions for mr. Wright? No, we're good. Thank you Kathy Smith

a Lot to break down my name is Kathy Smith I am currently as a school district Trustee, at the time in 2015 when this originally came before the Historic Preservation Commission and the City Council I was an employee. I don't recall a commercial act causing this to come before the HPC in 2015. I remember subsequent commercial acts thankfully are no longer viable however from the architect's report on page 33.

Speaking of the historic value of the property, the forensic historic expert architect said however it does not retain significant integrity historical resources to be eligible for the California Register or the National Register. Conversely, the Chaparral Auditorium as an individual building qualifies for those registers so even the forensic person did not see the viability of the entire property.

And I do think the council took that into consideration when they made their decision and what I recall as a negotiated conversations between the two organizations that they came up with. The front arcade area, the auditorium we actually added the superintendent's building which was not part of that first draft because it is also on the Ojai Avenue landscape and that has always been the focus We actually in my opinion generously included the lawn.